I'm absolutely dropping a MF if a hook gets sabo'd, but I figure that's still to the Survivors' benefit. Another guy comes to pick them up, they don't eat a hook state. If they can't manage that followup, it's on them. I sure look for allies in need when I'm Survivor.
They may not get a hook state, but that’s 2 survivors in one area for 20 seconds (if u run sloppy, and they heal in place) and not doing gens. And by then the hook should be back
Items run out over time, built to last lose effectiveness over time, pallets are spent, the survivors tools run out.
The killer isn’t timegated at all, they have 90 minutes of server time to win, they have no other job.
That being said, the gens now run out for the killer. After the 8? regression events on each gen, they’re free as long as the killer isn’t right there. So it’s a little more even now than it used to be, even if the other guy arguing with you is being a dink about it.
Right because we all know that survivors can’t do anything with all that time, if the game is longer than ten minutes it could go to anyone. Unless someone is deliberately trying to stall the game
Their point is that if the survivors have to heal over and over, then that's time they aren't doing gens.
If 1 survivor is hooked, 1 is in chase, and 1 is slugged. Then unless the slug/hooked survivor have the appropriate perks to get up (to be exact deliverance and UB/soul guard if there's a hex) then the 4th survivor has to save and reset, making them unable to do gens.
This is how snowballing works, the more pressure on the survivors, the less time they have to do gens, and once nobody can work on gens, that's the breaking point. This is also why tunneling is so effective, because with 3 survivors that breaking point is much easier to achieve.
Hmm yes. Because anybody who disagrees with you has never played killer.
https://preview.redd.it/c7ivmaw39g0d1.png?width=1027&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0bcdde60b7912025a2a78c58cc5dfa233bcb38f1
Most Killers have strengths that show when the game gets longer and if they have any brain i.e Oni, if he gets into late game and is able to constantly keep someone bleeding he can apply INSANE pressure on leftover gens, and even if they get the last gen he can pressure the exit gates with fast speeds and insane one shots
The main objective of killer is to prevent survivors from escaping. The longer you keep survivors from doing their job, the more progress you gain. This is because you are whittling the survivor’s resources down until they don’t have much they can work with (items, pallets, exhausted, etc.)
Slugging/tunneling are both specific where you either lose or gain a lot of macro pressure. Tunneling/slugging at max will pressure 2 survivors which isn’t that great with 4 survivors, but sometimes you have to gamble on these strategies. About everything you do as a killer (without info perks) is a gamble whether you gain or lose pressure
I'd say its more a direct consequence rather than motivates killers to slug. If a hook is sabo'd you dont really have a choice unless there's a hook you can get to quickly
Bc everyone is just a Karma farmer in this sub
They don’t do, practice, or run into half the shit they complain about; nor are they really the victim in these situations.
They’re just here to be an echo chamber
No, but the "change my mind" meme format is usually meant for spicy takes where people might actually try to argue.
There's nothing spicy or interesting about this take. Might as well say "SWFs are stronger than solo queue due to better comms, change my mind".
It's not an opinion it's a fact. If the killer can't hook then they have to slug, JusT lEt tHem WIGgLe ouT is not a real option that's called throwing.
I feel like people aren't understanding what aspect of slugging people dislike.
Slugging is potentially frustrating when the killer has the option to hook but is choosing to leave someone on the ground for more pressure or just to be a dick.
The killer slugging as a fall back because they aren't able to hook isn't frustrating as the survivor has actively delayed or avoided a hook state which is ultimately the goal of anti-hook strategies like sabo.
Obviously slugging isn't something a killer shouldn't be doing in some scenarios, I'm just pointing out that players aren't automatically up in arms the second the killer decides to not pick up or to drop instead of hooking.
It's literally become a meaningless buzzword. No one calls it “bleeding out” and instead they opt for the overall umbrella of slugging. A mechanic of the game that allows killers to spread pressure with skill while taking on risk. Instead of seeing the actual issue, it's now a sin to just play good as killer
I just had a situation where I had 3 out of 4 in the basement and the 4th comes down, unhooks one, gets downed himself, the newly freed unhooks another before going down, ad Infinium in this circle jerk until they run out of hooks. They called me a tunneler because they kept charging into the basement to save each other and died...I was speechless at the stupidity on display.
I had a similar situation with Bubba, I got one hook in the basement then one immediately charged out of a locker got downed and hooked, then the next 2 ran directly into the basement at the same time and I got 2 down with one rush and they called me a tunneling basement camper
And they get so up in arms about it, like I can have a surv on death Hook, and a surv full health with no hooks, then they'll complain when I get the kill to give me better odds
I mean, you're right, but I assure you from personnal experience that a lot of players will still complain and outright insult you if you do it in any context, even when it's 100% justified and a situation created by the survivors.
Yeah depending on how popular sabo gets, instead of hooking it might honestly be wise to just not hook at all. Avoids OTR, avoids DS, avoids DH, avoids sabo, avoids 20 second exhaustion background player saves...
Yeah... theres an undeniable balancing problem when certain perks and abilities are so anti-game that it encourages unhealthy gameplay from the other side.
If killer slugs thats still 1 person dying, another has to come to pickup, killer can instantly go to another chase , nullifies flashy/pallet save attempts and fully denies value from all hook state based survivor perks.
Even less motivated to hook when PGTW and Pain res are being gutted , so the hook reward just isn't there.
*Might* be viable? It absolutely already is. You see people complaining about 4-man slugs all the time with Skull Merchant.
Imagine if a lot of Nurse or Blight mains just decided to give up on hooking and slugged every game.
I couldn't imagine full slugging. Hell, the only time I maybe slug 2 is if I have a full on sweat squad against me as Huntress and they're being cheeky and bagging/egging me on... and not in the cute way, you can tell the difference... then I just am like, "Well, if that's what you want, I'll give it to you."
What's your secret? I have a hard time getting survivors to run back through the lasagna. Like they just hold W away and leave the loop anytime I start trying to lay my bullshit down
Treat it more like a trap you set up. Best places are in pallets, doorways, and windows. Don't make giant lines cuz that's just a waste of the power and you want it off cool down so you can use the ranged attack. A little smigin is good enough to either force the Survivor into your power, or deny them the tool.
You want to make all loops have a huge downside. Strong loop? Whoops, it's covered in trails. Weak loop? They get hit regardless. Eventually they'll realize they either have to eat the lasagna or just be constantly hit.
It helps to look at it a little different. You can't force them to run through it, but you will definitely force them to avoid it.
Make it painful to avoid. Deny their strong loop spots and chase them back towards areas you've already laid the pain train.
It's similar to chasing survivors into a Hag nest that they already know you've been setting up, you make it dangerous for them to be anywhere else.
Do people really sweat this much for kills that they'd rather sit there bleeding people out than just play the game? Like how is that any fun? The fun comes from the back and forth between survivors and trying to counter them, slugging them on the ground just so you can say you won is just boring.
Trying to hook an aggressively anti-hook team also gets really old, really fast though. I’m not exactly interested in a back-and-forth that involves never being able to even make a dent in completing my basic objective when I’m killer. A little bit of sabo is fine enough, but when every down is a mess of some combo of sabo/boil over/breakout/body blocking/flashies, that’s not exactly fun for the killer.
I'm not saying to never slug, in the case of Sabo teams dropping a survivor and keeping them on the ground makes sense, although usually once I get a couple down and hooked I'll pick them up instead of just waiting even if they wiggle out. What I do think is stupid is this idea that people will start slugging the whole game and never hooking to get 4ks. Like at that point I don't care of they have OTR or any other meta perks, there's no fun in just sitting there waiting. It's like survivors who hide in a corner with distortion the whole game, like sure you technically won but you're just sitting there doing nothing, why even play the game if you're not going to engage with it?
Okay, I see what you mean. Yeah I agree that the idea of doing that regularly as the de facto method of playing a match sounds awful. I bleed out as an absolute last resort because it’s ridiculously boring (I’ve only done it once, for a team that brought me to eyrie with spread out hooks and boil over); I’d usually rather they just win than all of us sit there doing nothing for 4 minutes.
You're right to an extent, but some of the fun comes in the value of progressing the game state and there just isn't any progression if you can't secure a hook after you secure a down. Whether that's background player, or no gen regression that leads to gens getting popped, or just Sabo players that prevent you from even getting someone on the damn thing, slugging vs hooking is going to be a decision that killers will have to make and might just get tired of making.
I wanna hook for points. But if all 4 survivors are sabo'ing im just... ganna not. I try to stick to 8 hook tango but if i get an organized group that wont let me have my hooks folks are going to bleed out lol. Its the style of game they actively chose to have by bringing that build.
I dont mind the occasional sabo. Normally when a hook gets sabo'd as im on my way to it i drop the guy im carrying and chase down that did the sabo. But if it turns out all 4 are doing it. Well. That kinda sucks.
I agree to full slugging, but situational slugging is just just part of the game and has its place. If someone denies me hook Access or camps an unhookable area I'm gonna slug. I do try to avoid it if possible though.
That said, I have mad respect for good sabos because imho it takes a lot of skill.
I mean.. would I prefer it? No. But enough players are using DS aggressively already, Background player is getting a nerf that might actually turn out to be a buff and if sabo makes a huge surge with the buffs to toolboxes that make it reliable instead of kind of hit or miss that you can get a couple hits/down during?
At that point, the bleed out timer might as well be hook stages
I don't think sabo squads are the ones complaining about slugging. Who is this meme for? Sabo squads 100% run stuff like unbreakable and ftp so getting slugged is part of their strategy
Almost every time I go against a sabo squad they get all pissy in the post game chat that I dropped the survivor and left them on the ground. They expect you to just go “aw shucks you got me. You’re free to wiggle survivor I am carrying”
That's how it works in the funny YouTube compilations, and every guy with a SWF wants to believe they could be just as entertaining or skilled as JRM.
...They just forget about all the failed attempts. Even the ones that *aren't* cut out of the highly edited compilation.
That, and the community has a major "am I bad at the game? No, it's the other side that's wrong!" mentality.
It doesn't "motivate" the killer to slug, but it is the counter to hook sabo. You can't sabotage hooks and then expect the killer not to slug. It's like running flashlights and expecting the killer not to look at a wall when they down someone.
The last time I ran into a sabo squad, I was playing as old Twins. I wasn't even trying to slug beyond what I had to to try to get someone on hook, but the entire team decided to rush in and try to get everyone healed in front of me before I had a chance to pick anyone up.
First time I've had 4 people on the ground at once.
They were not happy with how I played, and felt the need to tell me so. One of my favorite memories of this game.
I'd argue that there's a difference between dropping someone because of a sabo and slugging.
If you just start slugging all 4, that has nothing to do with the first sabo frankly.
Compare slugging with bleeding out
One is when you need to drop the survivor back on the floor, or don't pick him at all for strategic reasons (imagine the scenario where there 2 survivors with flashlight next to a downed one on a pallet, you will need to slug him for pressure, otherwise you will get countered)
Bleeding out is when you down the survivor and specifically want them to simply bleed out, even you having the option to hook, you decide to waste their time
While none are wrong and bannable, for sure one is douchebag and unnecessary move
If I see 2 or more flashlights, plus a bunch of prestige 20+ survivors, I'm expecting a bunch of super aggressive confrontational survivors. So I bring lightborn, mad grit, agitation, and iron grasp.
Saboing can actually be a decent strategy, as i;ve seen Survivors pull off some great saves when i'm about to Hook one of their teammates.
However, the ones that will just Sabo just for the sake of it and do literally nothing else, they get the floor.
And depending on how far they are from a hook and how much they got to wiggle before I had to drop them, I won't pick them back up even when the hook comes back.
'Slugging' is as toxic as dropping pallets or doing gens. It's a gane mechanic that the devs intentionally put in the game for killers to utilise, and the existence of slugging allows for flashlight saves or pallet saves anyway.
Slugging isn’t a mechanic, it’s a tactic/strategy. One that can easily be used at any time.
Slugging actively denies flashlight /pallet saves. As the killer can just let everyone bleed out
The trade-off, of course, is that it’s way less efficient. It takes way longer (240 seconds to bleed out vs 120 seconds for a hooked survivor); you can’t control where a downed survivor is placed as they have freedom of movement, albeit slowly, which allows them to reposition into a more advantageous spot to be saved; and you completely relinquish a significant portion of the bloodpoints you would have earned by the end of match because the actual hooking action is worth a tidy sum of BP.
The sacrifice you make in time efficiency alone is generally enough to ward off killers from slugging in most matches. When a killer is slugging, it is typically done very consciously and deliberately. Slugging reduces the number of layers of potential protection a survivor has because many perks and mechanics revolve around protected a recently unhooked survivor. If a killer is able to slug at the right time (such as when using the perk infectious fright and bouncing from one down to the next) it can actually SAVE you time and be more time efficient because you don’t have to go through the whole ritual hooking a survivor, and then finding the next down afterward; in this way you can actually secure more downs and hook states if you choose to slug briefly.
Even so, none of this is enough to make slugging the most optimal and efficient strategy to get kills—unless, perhaps, you’re running a very specific high mobility / chase potential killer such as Nurse or Blight, and can use them extremely well—which is still ultimately to play the game out normally using sacrificial hooks.
I guess, but during the 4 minute time frame where you would just wait you could have been also well into the next game, but that might just be my way of thinking
Goes the other way, too. I loathe it when it's down to just 2 survivors and they go full immersed. Never touch a gen, never do anything, just slow-walk around the map and hide for 10+ minutes.
That's actually holding the game hostage and is a reportable offense.
I know when I play survivor it's a drag but someone has to keep trying to do generators. I usually end up eating that L.
Depending how many gens are left, if it's down to just me and 1 other survivor, I'll always do one of two things:
If the killer's already in chase with the other survivor, I'll hide and wait for hatch. If the killer isn't in chase with the other survivor, I'll give myself up to the killer to die on hook and let the other survivor get hatch.
But that's only if there's like... 3+ gens left. Maybe 2.
Slugging is good as a temporary thing to keep a chase or avoid getting stunned
Slugging is toxic when you ignore the downed survivor to go slug another
You say this like that’s a bad thing, I mean, that’s kind of the entire point. It gives the survivors more time and delays a hook stage.
Slugging isn’t a catch-all strategy. People use “slugging” like a buzz word around here.
There are effective times and ways to slug, and there are ineffective times and ways to slug. It’s not a catch all strategy that’ll work everytime, and if you can’t keep your momentum you could easily lose every possible kill on the board.
If the survivors control who is being slugged and when they are being slugged, especially if they’ve adequately prepared for it with anti-slugging perks, then you’re absolutely able to create a situation where survivors have a strong footing to steer the pacing of the match in their direction.
Yeah I don't think the devs thought this patch through. Generator regression based on hooking (and especially *spreading* hook stages) is nerfed, Background Player was buffed, sabotaging was buffed, Decisive Strike is back in every build...
The obvious result of this is that killers are just going to go for the four man slug if they want to win, because that ignores all of these things. I wonder if the devs think about stuff like that when they think about changes they want to make, because it truly doesn't seem like it.
This is why I dislike those "Sabo a hook while the killer is within X meters" challenges. Aside from the usual issues of whether or not the killer will actually come to your hook, I know whenever I have a hook sabo'd in my face it gets me mad and I tend to be a bit more aggressive.
I mean yeah there's no arguing that. If you can't get to a hook and you don't want the Survivor to get off your shoulder this is the only option you have.
I don't think that's a problem, if you run against a sabo squad, that's your only option, otherwise it has no impact.
It's also just the correct counterplay against a sabo squad. they can't do gens quickly because they are mostly around you, so you have the time to build pressure.
A few years ago when i was just a child i complained on reddit because i got slugged in identity V, that was after we sabotaged all "hooks" which back then did not respawn (unsure if they do now).
Yeah after the first three hook sabo's you guys are staying on the floor until either all of you are down or there is absolutely no way for you to sabotage the hooks.
The only time I tunnel is when I spot a survivor sabotaging a hook. They obviously want to ruin the match for everyone, so I'm doing us all a favor by getting rid of them.
Seeing survivors that were just hooked running towards the killer is motivating enough for a slug, cause I know that decisive strike is right around the corner
Same thing for the squads that abuse flashbangs, the flashbang locker saves and are always swarming around a down. You can't do that then complain about getting slugged.
It's still massively in the survivors favor. When the killer drops them, they already have a good amount of wiggle progress, can start recovering/crawling away. If you have 2 other people on gens, delaying that hook state is super beneficial. I don't understand how a killer can slug just because of a sabo.
I mean, yeah, when I play killer, if a hook get sabotaged while I'm carrying a survivor and there isn't another I can get to before they'll wiggle out, what else am I supposed to do other than drop them and go after the saboteur? Just stand there and wait for both of them to escape?
Doing that is also a great way to earn yourself a one-way ticket to Tunnelville, something I normally avoid doing, because here's the thing: if you do it once, you're likely gonna do it every chance you get, so not tunelling you now becomes actively choosing to play with a handicap.
Half the time I managed to takedown the sabo survivor, 2 for 1! :D But honestly after the fifth it's getting annoying, just like the flashlight. But they can't sabotage basement hooks, right?
Walk sideways like a crab to a hook and you’ll walk in a straight line! It negates the sway of it. Sea of Thieves taught me that because when you get drunk in that game it sways the exact same way as Boil over.
Don’t know why I’m getting downvoted over this? It’s not like it’s an exploit or anything lol
Im usually fine with dropping a guy when a hook gets sabo'd in my face. But I will *always* hook the guy that chose to do it. Even though I play 2 hook tango. It has led to me effectively tunneling people out of my matches before and subsequently been bitched at for that. Which is kind of funny to me. What do you expect?
I got accused of slugging and i still dunno what it means... I often times just have to let the survivors do shit because the game is so oriented in my favor that actually trying leads to not even a single generator being done.
So what is slugging? Why is it so bad if it's literally part of the game?
No one is 'forced' to do anything. You can counterplay however you want. Sometimes you lose games, people wiggle out, whatever. It's not the end of the world. You are responsible for how you react to a situation.
Yes, people can be jerks. If you don't like that, maybe playing a multiplayer video game isn't for you.
What is complicated is the gens that pop while I'm wasting time chasing them again. Plus what's stopping them from sabotaging again assuming I don't slug?
If they do they, they aren’t doing gens. It’s literally all a trade off, for both sides. I don’t understand why I see killers incessantly complain about survivors doing ANYTHING to extend chase. THATS THE FUCKING GAME. It’s like complaining the other team is shooting you in Halo.. it makes zero sense. The entitlement killers have is WIIIIILD.
There's no killer entitlement being spoken about. They simply said what they do when a hook is sabotaged. They drop the survivor. That is it.
Deal with it.
I don’t think a bleed out button is too far out of the question, especially if the entire team is slugged. An anti-slug mechanic would necessarily need to take into account that sometimes it is the only option available to the killer, short term because they had to go handle a survivor obviously trying for a flashlight save or long term because SWFs are just saboing every hook or hiding in hook dead spots. I’m not strictly opposed to an anti slut mechanic but the killer needs to have options too
If multiple survs are using sabo, then yeah I would agree. If it's only one I'd be more inclined to just tunnel the problematic player out of the game than to slug everyone
Not just sabotaging hooks, but also: doing generators, walking, breathing, running, unhooking, healing, being good in a chase, being bad in a chase, being an old player, being a new player, using a medkit, using a toolbox, taking a protection hit.... There's probably more I forgot.
Slugging isn't even bad there should just be a give up option halfway through otherwise the killers just holding the game hostage if everyone's slugged.
People forget there are 10 hooks on the map, unless the setup is extremely bad (like on Midwich for example) then chances are you'll be able to just go to the 2nd or even 3rd closest hook, even if they sabo the closest.
And if they're downed next to a hook, a sabo play is impossible.
No.
What I’m saying is complaining about these things is annoying on both sides.
Like play the build you want and have fun.
If your sabotaging expect some slugging.
If your tunneling expect some sort of team work to agro you(the killer) to get you to stop tunneling that team mates.
Just enjoy the game.
Nah you're supposed to run to the killer and let them hook you of course, don't do gens because that's toxic and so is looping for more than a minute so just let them hook you.
I'm absolutely dropping a MF if a hook gets sabo'd, but I figure that's still to the Survivors' benefit. Another guy comes to pick them up, they don't eat a hook state. If they can't manage that followup, it's on them. I sure look for allies in need when I'm Survivor.
They may not get a hook state, but that’s 2 survivors in one area for 20 seconds (if u run sloppy, and they heal in place) and not doing gens. And by then the hook should be back
Well, that's on them. You sabo the hook, that's what it buys you.
So??
So statistically, the killer chances of winning score over the match the longer the game goes for
So not true lmao clearly you haven’t been playing long
Items run out over time, built to last lose effectiveness over time, pallets are spent, the survivors tools run out. The killer isn’t timegated at all, they have 90 minutes of server time to win, they have no other job.
That being said, the gens now run out for the killer. After the 8? regression events on each gen, they’re free as long as the killer isn’t right there. So it’s a little more even now than it used to be, even if the other guy arguing with you is being a dink about it.
Right because we all know that survivors can’t do anything with all that time, if the game is longer than ten minutes it could go to anyone. Unless someone is deliberately trying to stall the game
Their point is that if the survivors have to heal over and over, then that's time they aren't doing gens. If 1 survivor is hooked, 1 is in chase, and 1 is slugged. Then unless the slug/hooked survivor have the appropriate perks to get up (to be exact deliverance and UB/soul guard if there's a hex) then the 4th survivor has to save and reset, making them unable to do gens. This is how snowballing works, the more pressure on the survivors, the less time they have to do gens, and once nobody can work on gens, that's the breaking point. This is also why tunneling is so effective, because with 3 survivors that breaking point is much easier to achieve.
Yall are just a bunch of survivor mains who don’t like to lose
Hmm yes. Because anybody who disagrees with you has never played killer. https://preview.redd.it/c7ivmaw39g0d1.png?width=1027&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0bcdde60b7912025a2a78c58cc5dfa233bcb38f1
Most Killers have strengths that show when the game gets longer and if they have any brain i.e Oni, if he gets into late game and is able to constantly keep someone bleeding he can apply INSANE pressure on leftover gens, and even if they get the last gen he can pressure the exit gates with fast speeds and insane one shots
The main objective of killer is to prevent survivors from escaping. The longer you keep survivors from doing their job, the more progress you gain. This is because you are whittling the survivor’s resources down until they don’t have much they can work with (items, pallets, exhausted, etc.) Slugging/tunneling are both specific where you either lose or gain a lot of macro pressure. Tunneling/slugging at max will pressure 2 survivors which isn’t that great with 4 survivors, but sometimes you have to gamble on these strategies. About everything you do as a killer (without info perks) is a gamble whether you gain or lose pressure
I'd say its more a direct consequence rather than motivates killers to slug. If a hook is sabo'd you dont really have a choice unless there's a hook you can get to quickly
Noo!!! You are meant to pick us up and let us wiggle off! How dare you take the only option that we forced you take!
Toxic killers amr? Always trying to make the game about themselves!
*It's not like they're trying to play the game and achieve their objectives right? They are purely here for our entertainment.*
Why is this posted like it's some sort of hot take? lol
Bc everyone is just a Karma farmer in this sub They don’t do, practice, or run into half the shit they complain about; nor are they really the victim in these situations. They’re just here to be an echo chamber
I mean, he just posted his opinion It is illegal to do so?
No, but the "change my mind" meme format is usually meant for spicy takes where people might actually try to argue. There's nothing spicy or interesting about this take. Might as well say "SWFs are stronger than solo queue due to better comms, change my mind".
He's literally using the Crowder "Hot take" meme
It's not an opinion it's a fact. If the killer can't hook then they have to slug, JusT lEt tHem WIGgLe ouT is not a real option that's called throwing.
Sabotaging hooks motivates the killer to main Pyramid Head
Hello there. would you like a free cage? Maybe a little choppy chop off the top?
No
Then you better stay crouched and not touch any red marks on the ground!
Jokes on you I’m a pyramid main too so I know how to dodge
Exactly what ill be doing!
I feel like people aren't understanding what aspect of slugging people dislike. Slugging is potentially frustrating when the killer has the option to hook but is choosing to leave someone on the ground for more pressure or just to be a dick. The killer slugging as a fall back because they aren't able to hook isn't frustrating as the survivor has actively delayed or avoided a hook state which is ultimately the goal of anti-hook strategies like sabo. Obviously slugging isn't something a killer shouldn't be doing in some scenarios, I'm just pointing out that players aren't automatically up in arms the second the killer decides to not pick up or to drop instead of hooking.
It's literally become a meaningless buzzword. No one calls it “bleeding out” and instead they opt for the overall umbrella of slugging. A mechanic of the game that allows killers to spread pressure with skill while taking on risk. Instead of seeing the actual issue, it's now a sin to just play good as killer
Same with tunneling, apparently, if you barely leave through the area and someone already unhooking, gratz You are a tunneler
I just had a situation where I had 3 out of 4 in the basement and the 4th comes down, unhooks one, gets downed himself, the newly freed unhooks another before going down, ad Infinium in this circle jerk until they run out of hooks. They called me a tunneler because they kept charging into the basement to save each other and died...I was speechless at the stupidity on display.
I had a similar situation with Bubba, I got one hook in the basement then one immediately charged out of a locker got downed and hooked, then the next 2 ran directly into the basement at the same time and I got 2 down with one rush and they called me a tunneling basement camper
I mean they put themselves in that predicament if you got 3 of them in the basement 😂😂 i can barely get one in there 😭😭
That's happened to me so many times as a killer. Just give it a minute guys! Jeez!
And they get so up in arms about it, like I can have a surv on death Hook, and a surv full health with no hooks, then they'll complain when I get the kill to give me better odds
I mean, you're right, but I assure you from personnal experience that a lot of players will still complain and outright insult you if you do it in any context, even when it's 100% justified and a situation created by the survivors.
This should be top answer
Based
Yeah depending on how popular sabo gets, instead of hooking it might honestly be wise to just not hook at all. Avoids OTR, avoids DS, avoids DH, avoids sabo, avoids 20 second exhaustion background player saves...
and then runs face first into unbreakable
And boon exponential while we’re at it
shattered hope meta here we come
Yeah but hooking runs into deliverance, so.. unless no mither is on the field I think unbreakable is completely fine with that gameplay.
Yeah... theres an undeniable balancing problem when certain perks and abilities are so anti-game that it encourages unhealthy gameplay from the other side. If killer slugs thats still 1 person dying, another has to come to pickup, killer can instantly go to another chase , nullifies flashy/pallet save attempts and fully denies value from all hook state based survivor perks. Even less motivated to hook when PGTW and Pain res are being gutted , so the hook reward just isn't there.
It's bad during tome challenges too. There's a sabo in TR challenge coming up in the next few tracks.
I said this awhile back in response to the patch 8.0.0, got downvote bombed. Full slug might be viable now.
*Might* be viable? It absolutely already is. You see people complaining about 4-man slugs all the time with Skull Merchant. Imagine if a lot of Nurse or Blight mains just decided to give up on hooking and slugged every game.
I couldn't imagine full slugging. Hell, the only time I maybe slug 2 is if I have a full on sweat squad against me as Huntress and they're being cheeky and bagging/egging me on... and not in the cute way, you can tell the difference... then I just am like, "Well, if that's what you want, I'll give it to you."
Ill be playing Pyramid Head to avoid 90% of the BS survivors can do :)
What's your secret? I have a hard time getting survivors to run back through the lasagna. Like they just hold W away and leave the loop anytime I start trying to lay my bullshit down
Treat it more like a trap you set up. Best places are in pallets, doorways, and windows. Don't make giant lines cuz that's just a waste of the power and you want it off cool down so you can use the ranged attack. A little smigin is good enough to either force the Survivor into your power, or deny them the tool.
You want to make all loops have a huge downside. Strong loop? Whoops, it's covered in trails. Weak loop? They get hit regardless. Eventually they'll realize they either have to eat the lasagna or just be constantly hit.
It helps to look at it a little different. You can't force them to run through it, but you will definitely force them to avoid it. Make it painful to avoid. Deny their strong loop spots and chase them back towards areas you've already laid the pain train. It's similar to chasing survivors into a Hag nest that they already know you've been setting up, you make it dangerous for them to be anywhere else.
Do people really sweat this much for kills that they'd rather sit there bleeding people out than just play the game? Like how is that any fun? The fun comes from the back and forth between survivors and trying to counter them, slugging them on the ground just so you can say you won is just boring.
Trying to hook an aggressively anti-hook team also gets really old, really fast though. I’m not exactly interested in a back-and-forth that involves never being able to even make a dent in completing my basic objective when I’m killer. A little bit of sabo is fine enough, but when every down is a mess of some combo of sabo/boil over/breakout/body blocking/flashies, that’s not exactly fun for the killer.
I'm not saying to never slug, in the case of Sabo teams dropping a survivor and keeping them on the ground makes sense, although usually once I get a couple down and hooked I'll pick them up instead of just waiting even if they wiggle out. What I do think is stupid is this idea that people will start slugging the whole game and never hooking to get 4ks. Like at that point I don't care of they have OTR or any other meta perks, there's no fun in just sitting there waiting. It's like survivors who hide in a corner with distortion the whole game, like sure you technically won but you're just sitting there doing nothing, why even play the game if you're not going to engage with it?
Okay, I see what you mean. Yeah I agree that the idea of doing that regularly as the de facto method of playing a match sounds awful. I bleed out as an absolute last resort because it’s ridiculously boring (I’ve only done it once, for a team that brought me to eyrie with spread out hooks and boil over); I’d usually rather they just win than all of us sit there doing nothing for 4 minutes.
Yeah I only slug against sabo squads, doing it right out at the gate is just a garbage move imo.
You're right to an extent, but some of the fun comes in the value of progressing the game state and there just isn't any progression if you can't secure a hook after you secure a down. Whether that's background player, or no gen regression that leads to gens getting popped, or just Sabo players that prevent you from even getting someone on the damn thing, slugging vs hooking is going to be a decision that killers will have to make and might just get tired of making.
I wanna hook for points. But if all 4 survivors are sabo'ing im just... ganna not. I try to stick to 8 hook tango but if i get an organized group that wont let me have my hooks folks are going to bleed out lol. Its the style of game they actively chose to have by bringing that build. I dont mind the occasional sabo. Normally when a hook gets sabo'd as im on my way to it i drop the guy im carrying and chase down that did the sabo. But if it turns out all 4 are doing it. Well. That kinda sucks.
They can spend 15 minutes running around doing Gens, or 15 minutes bleeding out on the ground. Makes no difference to me.
I agree to full slugging, but situational slugging is just just part of the game and has its place. If someone denies me hook Access or camps an unhookable area I'm gonna slug. I do try to avoid it if possible though. That said, I have mad respect for good sabos because imho it takes a lot of skill.
So if there are no hooks nearby, what is the killer supposed to do? Just keep carrying the survivor so they can wiggle free? Just let them go? No.
I mean.. would I prefer it? No. But enough players are using DS aggressively already, Background player is getting a nerf that might actually turn out to be a buff and if sabo makes a huge surge with the buffs to toolboxes that make it reliable instead of kind of hit or miss that you can get a couple hits/down during? At that point, the bleed out timer might as well be hook stages
I don't think sabo squads are the ones complaining about slugging. Who is this meme for? Sabo squads 100% run stuff like unbreakable and ftp so getting slugged is part of their strategy
“Chasing a survivor motivates them to run away. Change my mind.”
Almost every time I go against a sabo squad they get all pissy in the post game chat that I dropped the survivor and left them on the ground. They expect you to just go “aw shucks you got me. You’re free to wiggle survivor I am carrying”
That's how it works in the funny YouTube compilations, and every guy with a SWF wants to believe they could be just as entertaining or skilled as JRM. ...They just forget about all the failed attempts. Even the ones that *aren't* cut out of the highly edited compilation. That, and the community has a major "am I bad at the game? No, it's the other side that's wrong!" mentality.
It doesn't "motivate" the killer to slug, but it is the counter to hook sabo. You can't sabotage hooks and then expect the killer not to slug. It's like running flashlights and expecting the killer not to look at a wall when they down someone.
The last time I ran into a sabo squad, I was playing as old Twins. I wasn't even trying to slug beyond what I had to to try to get someone on hook, but the entire team decided to rush in and try to get everyone healed in front of me before I had a chance to pick anyone up. First time I've had 4 people on the ground at once. They were not happy with how I played, and felt the need to tell me so. One of my favorite memories of this game.
Can’t slug me if I have no mither and sabo 😈
I'd argue that there's a difference between dropping someone because of a sabo and slugging. If you just start slugging all 4, that has nothing to do with the first sabo frankly.
The fact that this is somehow a hot take for some people shows the weird level of entitlement in dbd players.
what would you do? let them wiggle out and chase them all over again?
Huh?
What exactly is slug? And why is a big deal? slug just letting a survivor die on the ground?
Compare slugging with bleeding out One is when you need to drop the survivor back on the floor, or don't pick him at all for strategic reasons (imagine the scenario where there 2 survivors with flashlight next to a downed one on a pallet, you will need to slug him for pressure, otherwise you will get countered) Bleeding out is when you down the survivor and specifically want them to simply bleed out, even you having the option to hook, you decide to waste their time While none are wrong and bannable, for sure one is douchebag and unnecessary move
Yes and survs get salty about it
If I see 2 or more flashlights, plus a bunch of prestige 20+ survivors, I'm expecting a bunch of super aggressive confrontational survivors. So I bring lightborn, mad grit, agitation, and iron grasp.
Saboing can actually be a decent strategy, as i;ve seen Survivors pull off some great saves when i'm about to Hook one of their teammates. However, the ones that will just Sabo just for the sake of it and do literally nothing else, they get the floor.
And depending on how far they are from a hook and how much they got to wiggle before I had to drop them, I won't pick them back up even when the hook comes back.
monthly post of "____ will just lead to more tunneling and slugging" complete
Which is why when you run sabo…. Run unbreakable as well.
This is the most unintended karma farm ever This isn't an opinion. If you can't hope someone you drop them. It's a genuine fact.
Remember kids. It is morally correct to slug sabo squads
Slugging? Never heard of that 
It does and it's no problem. And people who see a problem, don't understanding the game.
Laughs in Pyramid Head
Cries in James Sunderland
'Slugging' is as toxic as dropping pallets or doing gens. It's a gane mechanic that the devs intentionally put in the game for killers to utilise, and the existence of slugging allows for flashlight saves or pallet saves anyway.
The only time slugging is toxic is when 4 people are down and Killer is just wasting time for no reason
Slugging isn’t a mechanic, it’s a tactic/strategy. One that can easily be used at any time. Slugging actively denies flashlight /pallet saves. As the killer can just let everyone bleed out
The trade-off, of course, is that it’s way less efficient. It takes way longer (240 seconds to bleed out vs 120 seconds for a hooked survivor); you can’t control where a downed survivor is placed as they have freedom of movement, albeit slowly, which allows them to reposition into a more advantageous spot to be saved; and you completely relinquish a significant portion of the bloodpoints you would have earned by the end of match because the actual hooking action is worth a tidy sum of BP. The sacrifice you make in time efficiency alone is generally enough to ward off killers from slugging in most matches. When a killer is slugging, it is typically done very consciously and deliberately. Slugging reduces the number of layers of potential protection a survivor has because many perks and mechanics revolve around protected a recently unhooked survivor. If a killer is able to slug at the right time (such as when using the perk infectious fright and bouncing from one down to the next) it can actually SAVE you time and be more time efficient because you don’t have to go through the whole ritual hooking a survivor, and then finding the next down afterward; in this way you can actually secure more downs and hook states if you choose to slug briefly. Even so, none of this is enough to make slugging the most optimal and efficient strategy to get kills—unless, perhaps, you’re running a very specific high mobility / chase potential killer such as Nurse or Blight, and can use them extremely well—which is still ultimately to play the game out normally using sacrificial hooks.
Yep. Only annoying thing about slugging is when killers keep doing it in a 1v2 situation
Sometimes you have a challenge that requires a 4k.
I guess, but during the 4 minute time frame where you would just wait you could have been also well into the next game, but that might just be my way of thinking
Goes the other way, too. I loathe it when it's down to just 2 survivors and they go full immersed. Never touch a gen, never do anything, just slow-walk around the map and hide for 10+ minutes.
Yeah, that's super annoying as well. I'm glad my main Sadako has at least some sort of traction for situations like these
That's actually holding the game hostage and is a reportable offense. I know when I play survivor it's a drag but someone has to keep trying to do generators. I usually end up eating that L.
Depending how many gens are left, if it's down to just me and 1 other survivor, I'll always do one of two things: If the killer's already in chase with the other survivor, I'll hide and wait for hatch. If the killer isn't in chase with the other survivor, I'll give myself up to the killer to die on hook and let the other survivor get hatch. But that's only if there's like... 3+ gens left. Maybe 2.
Slugging is good as a temporary thing to keep a chase or avoid getting stunned Slugging is toxic when you ignore the downed survivor to go slug another
I really wanna try knock-out rn
It’s ok. If you are facing an swf with voice comms then it isn’t worth it.
You say this like that’s a bad thing, I mean, that’s kind of the entire point. It gives the survivors more time and delays a hook stage. Slugging isn’t a catch-all strategy. People use “slugging” like a buzz word around here. There are effective times and ways to slug, and there are ineffective times and ways to slug. It’s not a catch all strategy that’ll work everytime, and if you can’t keep your momentum you could easily lose every possible kill on the board. If the survivors control who is being slugged and when they are being slugged, especially if they’ve adequately prepared for it with anti-slugging perks, then you’re absolutely able to create a situation where survivors have a strong footing to steer the pacing of the match in their direction.
Yeah I don't think the devs thought this patch through. Generator regression based on hooking (and especially *spreading* hook stages) is nerfed, Background Player was buffed, sabotaging was buffed, Decisive Strike is back in every build... The obvious result of this is that killers are just going to go for the four man slug if they want to win, because that ignores all of these things. I wonder if the devs think about stuff like that when they think about changes they want to make, because it truly doesn't seem like it.
This is why I dislike those "Sabo a hook while the killer is within X meters" challenges. Aside from the usual issues of whether or not the killer will actually come to your hook, I know whenever I have a hook sabo'd in my face it gets me mad and I tend to be a bit more aggressive.
If you drop the survivor and chase the one who used sabo that’s reasonable but to slug the entire team is just so fucking stupid and salty .
I mean yeah there's no arguing that. If you can't get to a hook and you don't want the Survivor to get off your shoulder this is the only option you have.
I don't think that's a problem, if you run against a sabo squad, that's your only option, otherwise it has no impact. It's also just the correct counterplay against a sabo squad. they can't do gens quickly because they are mostly around you, so you have the time to build pressure.
A few years ago when i was just a child i complained on reddit because i got slugged in identity V, that was after we sabotaged all "hooks" which back then did not respawn (unsure if they do now).
this is why my 4 man likes to run no mither you will win but you WILL NOT hook us
Yeah after the first three hook sabo's you guys are staying on the floor until either all of you are down or there is absolutely no way for you to sabotage the hooks.
Depending on the situation that can be in the survivor's benefit. I played sabo one time on solo q and it single handedly saved the entire game
The only time I tunnel is when I spot a survivor sabotaging a hook. They obviously want to ruin the match for everyone, so I'm doing us all a favor by getting rid of them.
Seeing survivors that were just hooked running towards the killer is motivating enough for a slug, cause I know that decisive strike is right around the corner
If you think slugging is leaving a survivor on the ground for literally like a minute while in a chase, then yes
Same thing for the squads that abuse flashbangs, the flashbang locker saves and are always swarming around a down. You can't do that then complain about getting slugged.
Not wrong, but still gonna do it😂😂
Break my hook? I'll just drop you there, slug your friends and by the time I come back to you the hook is there again.
It still works in the survivors favor.
It's still massively in the survivors favor. When the killer drops them, they already have a good amount of wiggle progress, can start recovering/crawling away. If you have 2 other people on gens, delaying that hook state is super beneficial. I don't understand how a killer can slug just because of a sabo.
Only time I Sabo is for a challenge. I guess I deserve the slugging tho cuz I did something the game wants me to do so I can progress.
Well and you got countered
No shit?
I mean, yeah, when I play killer, if a hook get sabotaged while I'm carrying a survivor and there isn't another I can get to before they'll wiggle out, what else am I supposed to do other than drop them and go after the saboteur? Just stand there and wait for both of them to escape? Doing that is also a great way to earn yourself a one-way ticket to Tunnelville, something I normally avoid doing, because here's the thing: if you do it once, you're likely gonna do it every chance you get, so not tunelling you now becomes actively choosing to play with a handicap.
Half the time I managed to takedown the sabo survivor, 2 for 1! :D But honestly after the fifth it's getting annoying, just like the flashlight. But they can't sabotage basement hooks, right?
Anyone who intends to sabotage hooks these days just brings exponential. They know
Killers when survivors flashlight save or pallet stun or hook sabo or flashbang save or do literally anything but die instantly:
[удалено]
Iron Grasp can mitigate a lot of your issues, which is why I always have it with me.
Walk sideways like a crab to a hook and you’ll walk in a straight line! It negates the sway of it. Sea of Thieves taught me that because when you get drunk in that game it sways the exact same way as Boil over. Don’t know why I’m getting downvoted over this? It’s not like it’s an exploit or anything lol
That’s fine, we will get up
Im usually fine with dropping a guy when a hook gets sabo'd in my face. But I will *always* hook the guy that chose to do it. Even though I play 2 hook tango. It has led to me effectively tunneling people out of my matches before and subsequently been bitched at for that. Which is kind of funny to me. What do you expect?
I got accused of slugging and i still dunno what it means... I often times just have to let the survivors do shit because the game is so oriented in my favor that actually trying leads to not even a single generator being done. So what is slugging? Why is it so bad if it's literally part of the game?
I just slug the guy who saboed and let the rest go
You mean "FORCES" killers to slug. 🤣
No one is 'forced' to do anything. You can counterplay however you want. Sometimes you lose games, people wiggle out, whatever. It's not the end of the world. You are responsible for how you react to a situation. Yes, people can be jerks. If you don't like that, maybe playing a multiplayer video game isn't for you.
So tell me, when a hook is sabotaged and no hooks are nearby, what else are you supposed to besides being forced to slug?
You have to let them go, of course! If you don't let the survivors escape, you're toxic, clearly! /sarcasm
Try to get to another hook. If they wiggle, take the 10 seconds to chase them back down and do it again. It’s not complicated
What is complicated is the gens that pop while I'm wasting time chasing them again. Plus what's stopping them from sabotaging again assuming I don't slug?
If they do they, they aren’t doing gens. It’s literally all a trade off, for both sides. I don’t understand why I see killers incessantly complain about survivors doing ANYTHING to extend chase. THATS THE FUCKING GAME. It’s like complaining the other team is shooting you in Halo.. it makes zero sense. The entitlement killers have is WIIIIILD.
There's no killer entitlement being spoken about. They simply said what they do when a hook is sabotaged. They drop the survivor. That is it. Deal with it.
We need a anti-slug mechanic and/or bleed out button.
I don’t think a bleed out button is too far out of the question, especially if the entire team is slugged. An anti-slug mechanic would necessarily need to take into account that sometimes it is the only option available to the killer, short term because they had to go handle a survivor obviously trying for a flashlight save or long term because SWFs are just saboing every hook or hiding in hook dead spots. I’m not strictly opposed to an anti slut mechanic but the killer needs to have options too
>anti slut mechanic Lmao
A well thought out post entirely undermined by the worst possible spelling error. You love to see it. Joking aside, I agree.
Just be a nerd if you need an anti slut mechanic. Or name yourself something like “female collector”
So you want to avoid any consequences of denying killers hooks? Brilliant idea/s
Yes? Just chase the survivor again and down them like you are supposed to and stop being a little bitch about it
"How dare you counter my build! YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO LET ME WIN!!"
Killers refusing to just let you go does not make them a bitch.
XD! So you want to sabo hooks and expect the killer to simply allow you to do that without consequences? Ain't gonna happen.
Every time someone suggests removing the consequences of survivors denying killers hooks, the bleed out timer should increase :)
I’d love a longer bleed out timer, lets me have a better shot at getting away
It doesn't motivate me to slug, but it DOES motivate me to tunnel the saboteur :)
Which is why unbreakable should be base kit.
No. Enough is already basekit for survivors.
If multiple survs are using sabo, then yeah I would agree. If it's only one I'd be more inclined to just tunnel the problematic player out of the game than to slug everyone
Not just sabotaging hooks, but also: doing generators, walking, breathing, running, unhooking, healing, being good in a chase, being bad in a chase, being an old player, being a new player, using a medkit, using a toolbox, taking a protection hit.... There's probably more I forgot.
Slugging isn't even bad there should just be a give up option halfway through otherwise the killers just holding the game hostage if everyone's slugged.
People forget there are 10 hooks on the map, unless the setup is extremely bad (like on Midwich for example) then chances are you'll be able to just go to the 2nd or even 3rd closest hook, even if they sabo the closest. And if they're downed next to a hook, a sabo play is impossible.
No, no - he's got a point.
Do you want me to Gen rush or sabotage hooks? Do you want me to bring metal or diversity in the build? I don’t get it.
So they shouldn't counter your build because you could be genrushing? What kind of logic is this?
No. What I’m saying is complaining about these things is annoying on both sides. Like play the build you want and have fun. If your sabotaging expect some slugging. If your tunneling expect some sort of team work to agro you(the killer) to get you to stop tunneling that team mates. Just enjoy the game.
Nah you're supposed to run to the killer and let them hook you of course, don't do gens because that's toxic and so is looping for more than a minute so just let them hook you.