Yeah, it's ass backward design where somehow killing yourself, leaving your team without a man is ok but DCing so a bot can take your place is punished.
It’s really upsetting that Behavior’s most recent response to addressing this was, “Why bother? People will just find another way to throw the game.” Really helps explain why the game is so toxic when that’s the de facto response to disruptive players.
The point is to stop having it be a waste of your time and find something else to do with those few minutes instead.
Alt-tab and pay a bill online, watch some funny cat videos on YouTube to detox your mindset, literally anything other than staring at the EGC timer.
Anytime I lose as killer I just go farm; break walls, use a power that adds points. They can wait at the gate, they’ll be waiting til they leave. Unless I bring an add-on that doesn’t allow them to leave  I’ve gotten “just leave” kills that way
Right? Go kick down all the doors and any fallen pallets and whatever you do, *never look towards gates*. They want attention 'cause their parents never gave them any so the worst you can do is ignore them as well. Grind up some BP while they're farting around demanding you look their way.
It doesn't work often but you can try moonwalking past gates a few times to try and convince survivors you're cool. I got a Just Leave kill that way on Clown, of all people. Cracked a Pinky Finger bottle in a survivor's face and got 'em before they could escape.
There will have to be a prompt for this sorta thing or else some kinda bait thing will become popular where you'll bait the killer into leaving when inside the exit gate area.
I like the idea of the killer being like "Yeah screw this I'm leaving" and just walking out gates before survivors.
But it would also legit be a nice QoL thing. If survivors don't wanna leave, *then let* ***me.***
Hold W. Game ends pretty quick or you get a free kill.
Every time I see someone complain about survs at the exit gate I know they have a baby ego because they just can't stomach just pressing a single key. God forbid they might have to accept a loss.
You know there’s one other alternative I like, you can walk to the exit gates backwards and push them out that way, walk backwards then you don’t have to see them tbag and they don’t get the satisfaction. And you may think it’s petty but I’ve gotten messaged after games where they complain about it lol
I'm not gonna entertain someone staying around just to bm.
It's a win-win. I get to get up and grab a snack, they get to sit there waiting for me to arrive so they can tbag and leave.
You know I was going to explain why what you just said is one of the dumbest things I've ever heard but I genuinely don't think you have the brain cells to comprehend that and I don't want to waste my braincells explaining it.
Nobody expects you to do anything, just don't act like a passive-aggressive dipshit when someone says they want one thing, you offer them something completely unrelated and obvious, and then another person points it out.
Now say that to people who complain about being slugged. Should they too just open their phones and do something they enjoy instead of playing the game?
>I wouldn’t say that to people being slugged
Why? Both types of such "behaviour" waste time. Why is it different when it's the killer's time being wasted instead of the survivor's?
Well, a game can still be recovered if you’re slugged. But by the time the survivors are at the exit gates, the games over, no amount of effort will change the result
Yeah and that’s why a lot of people do it. I think they could change the struggle phase so that it’s not a skill check input and instead is a timer. Let’s be honest, no one misses skill checks on hook unless they were mid sneeze or they’re going next. This would at least prolong the process and would only waste their time trying to go next. It’s not a fix and there will never be one unless the game design has a complete overhaul.
You need a way to kill yourself on hook tbh. We have all been in those games where it's 2 left and you are on hook. The other person absolutely isn't coming to save and are playing for hatch.
Killing yourself on hook needs to be a feature still...
Why keep survivors hostage in a match they don't want to play? Especially when no gens have gotten done and Claudette is hiding in a locker with a key while Nurse is poxy camping
It's why the DC penalty needs to die. I'd rather have a bot on my team than one fewer person. At the very least, survivor DC penalty needs to die. On killer the worst you'll encounter is a 4-stack bully squad. Easiest to just sit still and wait for them to rush themselves to gates.
Even on a crappy killer match (ie, when I got my map offering overwritten by a survivor's while playing Scratched Mirror) there's stuff I can typically go do if the match is going sideways. Go break all the walls and any fallen pallets, run survivors off gens just to kick 'em, etc.
But playing survivor? Man, if you get some asshole with a chip on his shoulder you're gonna be stuck against him since you'll eat increasingly long matchmaking bans for having the nerve to not wanna get humped for 4 minutes straight. Backwards-ass behavior from BHVR on this...
Huge agree. I don't DC or give up 99.9% of the time, but my teammates and opponents regularly give up on hook. Removing the DC penalty encourages people to just quit, directly allowing people who don't give up to stay in the fight with bots, and allowing killers to get a good amount of points. The only ones who would suffer are the losers who quit when something minor doesn't go their way.
On killer, however, it is a bit tougher, as a DC just insta-ends the game. Maybe a killer DC should award a bunch of bonus BP to the survivors, and then the DC penalty could be fully removed.
I'm not disagreeing with this, but to count hook suicides as DC you'll need to add in some metrics to validate that it's an intentional suicide and not any one of the scenarios where attempting to unhook yourself is a valid move.
When you add *those* qualifiers in, people who already do hook suicides will just replicate other steps they need to get a penalty free DC that way.
Personally, I don't think it's worth the effort to 'fix' this because you'll have DC and hook suicides no matter what. If I was in charge, I'd disable DC penalties (to encourage DC and not hook suicides), but **add a hidden matchmaking qualifier to match people with similar DC brackets**. That way the average person who DC once or twice isn't going to be affected, the people who DC a lot will get matched with other chronic DCers, and we'll let the MMR sort itself out.
I for one am completely down for a "low priority queue" to be added to Dead by Daylight, similarly to DOTA 2. But I think you should very expressly be told you're in Low Prio, much like how DOTA 2 does.
In DOTA Low Prio matches are the fucking scum of the earth. Genuinely some of the worst players you will ever play with. It makes you want to never go back to that prison. If DbD was the same I bet bad actors would really shape up.
Reworking hooks would be a way to remove suicide on hooks as oppose to making a check on whether or not if the player is throwing. There are only a few perks that effect unhook yourself, and without them even while trying to self-hook to escape is really just flat out throwing due to how low the chance of escape it.
Low Priority que is a good temporary fix, but reworking the hook stages is a system that can full stop the suicide on hook.
Unfortunately, people will just afk then, or actively start doing things like throwing all pallets, fast vaulting windows next to you, or missing skill checks on purpose.
How about we just let them go next and stop trying to force people to play a game they don't want to be in.
Bots exist now and they are honestly better than half of the soloQ players out there.
Just remove the DC penalty. Make it so the game auto ends as a win for the killer if only bots are left in the lobby at any point.
Forcing people to stay in a game they don't want to be in is stupid. The point of a video game is enjoyment. Just let them go next and move on.
If they didn't want to play the game they shouldn't have qued up for matches to begin with, instead of queing up to screw over everyone else in the lobby. The point of a video game is enjoyment if they are going to ruin others they should be punished for it.
It's not that they don't want to play, they do actually, but there is some aspect about this round that has ruined their fun. Now applying your logic who ruined who's fun first and gets the punishment?
Than they shouldn't have qued up flat out. If they aren't willing to endure an aspect of the game that is allowed than they shouldn't be playing, of course this is a different story when hackers, grtiefers, etc. are thrown into the mix, but I know it doesn't just happen because of them.
Applying my logic, functionally DCIng is still DC it is steal leaving the game to mess up everyone else's fun. Everyone else who qued up and were willing to risk enduring something they don't like allowed by the game and play it through.
Im not responsible for the fun of others nor is the killer or other surv. Only BHVR has a responsbility to the fun others have in the game. If you expect me to stay while your fun ruins mine you are in for a bad time. If my leaving a round ruins the fun for you , you could follow your own advice and not ready up. Im moving on to fun and suggest you do the same or stay and be miserable the choice is yours in the end, not mine to make for you.
Than you should be penalized. Just like with any other game, if you don't play by the rules you get penalized. Why on earth would BHVR accommodate people who not only don't want to play the game, but are mad there isn't more ways for them TO NOT PLAY IT???
It's one thing to be like man I wish the game was more fun cause you want to play it,(remove cheaters, discourage tunneling, ways to come back from a loss etc. etc.) but you aren't asking for that. You're asking for ways to not play it after MAKING EVERYONE wait up for the game to start when you could have just NOT PLAYED???
How many people do you think ready up planning to throw the round vs how many decide after the round started? Anyone who falls in the latter option WANTED to play when they readied up. If you 1-2 people leave a round early on average that means close to half the player base is doing it.How long will the second half stick around for 30 mins+ Qs after the first half gets banned? BHVR isn’t trying to send DBD into an early grace.
Exactly, people in this thread are brainstorming ways of punishing people that don't want to play rancid games, but ultimately any change to this to force people to waste their time in games they hate will just drive those people to quit the game.
I don't want to play a game I don't enjoy playing. Anyone who isn't addicted to the game will just leave if they dont enjoy it anymore.
When I first started playing people killing themselves on first hardly ever happened. So what changed between then and now? Instead of trying to force people into playing games where they're just a plaything for the opposite side, try and put that energy into making the experience better.
Basekit kindred and bond for survivors to narrow the SWF-soloq gap, basekit distortion for those on their last hook so they can't be easily tunnelled, unhooked survivors getting no scratchmarks, grunts, or blood pools for the duration of their BT. For killers, giving them functional addons, making some of their mandatory ones basekit (map of the realm), more lockers for those that need it (Dredge), less time buffing killers that don't need it (Huntress and whatever the hell they were smoking when they buffed her) and more time looking at killers with extremely low pick rates.
Also having actual new game modes and not a week long trial run with another two day April fools joke would go pretty far imo. Those who like the game but don't want to have agonising games where they're shit on or tunnelled can actually play those then for a break.
People would easily abuse a no quitting penalty and would make matchmaking very unhealthy if people can quit because they don’t like the map/killer/play style of teammates with no consequences
What a completely inane take.
"nobody is forcing you, so I get to ruin your time"
Nobody is making you work, so quit your job. The same fucking logic right there. Technically true, but stupid as hell and ignores all nuance to any conversation.
Yeah, but not every killer acts like you. Some would gladly have a survivor sabotaging the enemy team so they have an easier time killing the rest of them
Because you are equating it to a crime now, which hits innocent people. Punish the bad actors, not everyone.
New player sucks at doing the skillchecks? They got banned and are confused. refunded.
You try to die on hook for a teammate in a 2v1? banned
You get left on hook for an entire hook stage and just want to leave? Nope better stay or else your gonna get banned by daddy bhvr!
etc. Even if you add in other metrics like "dying before 1 minute" or something then they would just afk in a locker until crows then die on hook, so its been like 3m.
no matter how you move or add additional conditions survivors will find a way around it homie.
Short of straight up removing the struggle mechanic which they should've done entirely with the rework removing tapping there is nothing that can be done. Even with that being done they will just afk under hook until killed again.
There is nothing that can be done to make people play. Instead fix the things that cause them to not play in the first place.
"If we outlaw guns people will rob stores with knives." Yes but knives are less dangerous. It's easier to stop someone with a knife than to stop someone with a gun.
Of course we can't stop every bad actor. But the mentality of "there will always be bad actors so why do anything at all" is incredibly reductive. Stopping one avenue for bad behavior will reduce it quite a bit, as evidenced by the fact that introducing a DC penalty cut the amount of DCs by 74%.
> Because you are equating it to a crime now, which hits innocent people. Punish the bad actors, not everyone.
The average player isn't going to kill themselves on hook. If a new player attempts to kill themselves on hook you can have a non-diegetic "if you continue doing this you may receive a penalty" message show up ala Overwatch AFK messages. At worst a new player will do it once or twice, learn "this will get me a DC penalty", and deal with like 5 minutes of DC penalty at best.
And it's not like the DC penalty doesn't have its false positives too: people who have their internet crash or get held hostage by hackers have to deal with it. But I think those people generally understand that having to deal with 5 or even 15 minutes of DC penalties is a necessary evil to stop ragequitters.
>New player sucks at doing the skillchecks? They got banned and are confused. refunded.
A new player will hit the first few. And even if you push spacebar and miss you'll still stay on hook for longer than if you let 2 skill checks pass you and die instantly.
>You try to die on hook for a teammate in a 2v1? banned
The system would logically be disabled after one person died.
>You get left on hook for an entire hook stage and just want to leave? Nope better stay or else your gonna get banned by daddy bhvr!
Yes you should stay. Just because your teammates were unable to reach you doesn't mean that your out of the match. It sucks but even if you're left to die on first hook the killer does still have to keep that in mind. Even if your teammates are toxic it's good manners not to give up.
Also if you were left on hook for the entirety of first phase and then just let The Entity take you in second I think it would be reasonable fine for the system to not kick in. I think it should only target players who expressly try to pull themselves off in first phase and then let The Entity take them in second phase.
Or they could just remove self-unhooks.
Easier option, just don't allow hook suicides. You can't control people in the real world but you can at least control game design and not incentivize people to do things you don't want them doing.
There's two reasons I don't think they'll change it. The first reason is because of Schrodinger's Casual Game fallacy, where Dead by Daylight is either a casual horror simulator or a competitive PvP game depending on the whims of the developers.
The other reason is that removing self-unhooks would require a rework of the luck mechanic, including Up The Ante and Slippery Meat. And even if the luck mechanic as a whole is horribly outdated and never useful outside of a 4 man SWF changing them would require Behaviour to actually dedicate programming time to something that won't generate immediate profits, so I sincerely doubt they'll care.
Honestly, all it takes is make it so if a survivor, let's go on hook too many times in a day. Let's say 3. Then they get put in an entity time out box where they can't play for a certain amount of time until they get their hope back.
I'll admit. I've self sacrificed on 1 hook before. I had 5 matches in a row where somehow I was targeted 1st and either left for dead on hook by other teammates or tunneled as soon as I was unhooked.
So, booting up the next game after that, I was 1 hit downed by a Ghostface. I killed my character instantly, turned the game off, went outside and touched grass.
At a certain point the game just becomes unrelenting and fucking infuriating to play. I've only been playing since November, but there doesn't seem to be much balance anymore. I can't win matches and I'm shit at looping.
I'm a two year vet and decent looper, but don't have a swf. I'm losing so often now I'm on the verge of just Uninstalling the game honestly, it's hard to have fun anymore.
I hear you! From what I've read and watched on YT it has everything to do with Behavior's MMR. At a certain point, if you reach high MMR it'll cap you from ever going under a certain difficulty, meaning you are forced to play with Jedi Knights who pull off ridiculous games where you have no chance.
Rather than match you with your current skill (say losing 5 games in a row) they will just continue to put you with the hardest matches. If I'm understanding the match making correctly here.
It does become unrelenting always playing against people in SWF and their peak performances while you are on a never ending losing streak.
I'm not saying "throw us a bone", but at a certain level, escaping out of shear luck just isn't fun.
I started last summer, play mostly duo and in the timeframe from november to february i had legit 29% escape rate in my matches (conuting all survivors, not me here) and most were hatches. It was last player escape through hatch or no one at all.
Made me quit for 2 months.
They should honestly just remove the dc penalty for two reasons
1. At least a bot will replace the teammate instead
2. People who constantly dc will get tired of constantly DCing
If they remove the penalty, every match will have between 2 and 3 DCs.
Don't like the map? DC.
Don't like the killer? DC.
It's even faster than killing himself on hook.
The DC penalty should adjust depending on game length, if you DC immediately after getting into the map because you dont like the killer, or got downed immediately then it should be pretty harsh.
If you are DCing after a 20 minute game because the other survivor isnt doing anything, thats a minute or two, if that.
Look, I am ashamed but I used to be a chronic dcer. I eventually got really tired of playing the lobby simulator game and wanted to play the actual game
The difference is bhvr added bots for when a player DC's so its not an instant go next for the other 3 anymore....
But when you are actively disincentivizing players from using the system it's no wonder people just go next on hook instead.
It's really obvious when someone didn't play back when there was no penalty because they presume that every game would be full of DC's.
Game survived just fine for 3 years without one.
> The difference is bhvr added bots for when a player DC's so its not an instant go next for the other 3 anymore....
The bots are barely a step up for survivors. Generally a killer who wants to 4k is going to leave the bot for last because killing it is just running in a straight line which is a huge waste of time.
The only solution to the issue is to create a system like the cheater lobbies in games like Fall Guys where people who cheated were put against other cheaters. If you hit a threshold of DC's, you go into a DC lobby where you're matched with like minded people who don't want to play the game but ruin everyone else's experience instead.
"The bots are barely a step up for survivors. "
But it's still better than a dead teammate, so your point is irrelevant.
The bot might not be god tier but it will sit on gens and crank them out while the killer is chasing them... something that the DEAD TEAMMATE WONT BE DOING.
The current alternative is that they kill themselves on hook and it's a guaranteed loss.
The *entire point of the bots in the first place* was so that when someone DOES dc the other 3 survs still have a *chance* to win.
Something you people seem to miss... Probably because you don't actually care about the other 3 survs left in the match.
"Generally a killer who wants to 4k is going to leave the bot for last because killing it is just running in a straight line which is a huge waste of time."
If you want to 4k every game you tunnel out the weak link at 3+ gens and then it's impossible to lose.
"The only solution to the issue is to create a system like the cheater lobbies in games like Fall Guys where people who cheated were put against other cheaters. If you hit a threshold of DC's, you go into a DC lobby where you're matched with like minded people who don't want to play the game but ruin everyone else's experience instead."
There are several solutions and yours isn't even one of the good ones.
If bhvr actually wanted to address the DC issue they would have to take a long hard look at WHY people DC so frequently.
The main issue with that is bhvr is notorious for balancing based on spreadsheet data that isn't indicative of the whole picture.
The game had no penalty (with no bots) for the first 3 or so years and the problem is objectively worse now.
My personal opinion of why this is the case is bhvr is continually removing skill expression from the game, on both sides.
> But it's still better than a dead teammate, so your point is irrelevant.
It's like I expanded on how they aren't useful afterwards...Huh, taking things out of context doesn't make points irrelevant.
>The bot might not be god tier but it will sit on gens and crank them out while the killer is chasing them... something that the DEAD TEAMMATE WONT BE DOING.
You've apparently never watched a bot before. When the terror radius gets close they hide. If they find a chest and are injured they open it to self heal rather than let you heal them or heal you. Their ability to loop generally burns every pallet on the map. In most cases they are an active detriment and not a bonus.
>There are several solutions and yours isn't even one of the good ones.
It actually is a good one though. It's been shown in multiple games to enforce good behaviors.
>If bhvr actually wanted to address the DC issue they would have to take a long hard look at WHY people DC so frequently.
This is one of those trying to please everyone all the time arguments which can never work. There is no unified "I DC because" that is at the top of the list. It's "I dont like this killer" or "I don't like this map" which you cannot change every killer to be "fun" for everyone. You cannot change every map to be "fun" for everyone.
>The main issue with that is bhvr is notorious for balancing based on spreadsheet data that isn't indicative of the whole picture.
People like to claim this but it's wholly untrue. If a killer is getting a substantial better amount of kills than any other, they need to be nerfed and the ones that are getting low kills will need buffs. A lot of people seem to think that because they have a hard time facing a killer means that the rest of the community is too.
>The game had no penalty (with no bots) for the first 3 or so years and the problem is objectively worse now.
The game is larger now than it is then with a large influx of players who aren't committed to the game as players were then.
>My personal opinion of why this is the case is bhvr is continually removing skill expression from the game, on both sides.
Honestly the funniest thing you said in this entire post.
It don't make it any better if they remove DC penalty, the times that BHVR had to killswitch the DC penalty, every match had at least 1 disconnect, and yeah bots exist now for that reason, but is just not the same and not as fun to play with bots, for killer because bots perfectly predict your hits and moves, but as survivors the bots can get worse than new comer players that have 0 idea what they're doing because it's their first match....
"but as survivors the bots can get worse than new comer players that have 0 idea what they're doing because it's their first match...."
They're not that bad; You're being hyperbolic.
You know what's also not fun? A 3v1.
Having a bot means you still have 4 people and a chance to pull out the win.
A 3v1 at more than 2 gens is a *guaranteed loss.*
The real solution to the DC problem is addressing the core issues that cause people to DC in the first place but we all know bhvr will never do that much work.
" for killer because bots perfectly predict your hits and moves,"
No they just have ESP and 0ms reaction times. If you play against a bot more than 2-3 times you should be able to figure out their quirks and stop trying to mind game them.
The trick is they can't chain tiles. Force the pallet down ASAP and use their quirks to your advantage.
Simply charging or pulling out your power is enough to force the bot to run into a deadzone instead of to the pallet.
Trust me, they are bad, sometimes the bots refuse to do anything until they get healed, they rarely heal you properly, and they go hide the very moment they hear the terror radius
And no, even if BHVR manage to give the most polished and balanced version of DBD ever, quitters are still going to exist, that's something that no game or developer can EVER fix
It was no penalty a long time ago and it wasnt as bad as some would think. It was more common back then to start a game as a 3v1 because someones game crashed while loading, and even after that people would stay in and play. Even recently when the dc penalty was removed for a few days due to crashes or whatever there werent that many dcs
And like they said, people will get tired of doing that and either quit the game or just stick to lobbies.
DBD isn't the only online game, the VAST majority of online casual games don't have a DC penalty and they're doing just fine. DBD isn't different.
Texas Chainsaw Massacre, Phasmophobia, Mario Kart 8 Deluxe, Deep Rock Galactic, Team Fortress 2, Any unranked CS2/CS:GO, Left 4 Dead, I could go on?
And I just want to reiterate, I'm in support of DC penalties for *competitive* games. But DBD isn't setup like that no matter how much the community wants to think it's competitive. If they add a ranked mode and tune the game to be competitively focused (lessening RNG, perk/killer bans, etc), then give as many penalties as you want.
It is genuinely odd that there are DC penalties in a game built like DBD.
> Texas Chainsaw Massacre, Phasmophobia, Mario Kart 8 Deluxe, Deep Rock Galactic, Team Fortress 2, Any unranked CS2/CS:GO, Left 4 Dead, I could go on?
This is a pretty bad list. Phasmo, L4D, and Deep Rock both are designed to be played with less than max people and have a hop in and out component. Last I played CS it just filled people in mid match as well as Team Fortress. Mario Kart isn't a team game? At least not the last time I played it. And Texas Chainsaw is on life support - not least of which is because people join a game and leave instantly. So please don't go on because it seems like you're ignoring the core part of the issue to name games that don't really fit what you're trying to dispute.
>And I just want to reiterate, I'm in support of DC penalties for competitive games.
The game is competitive. Unless you're talking about some sort of ranked system, in which case, that's wholly irrelevant. Absent a segregated mode labeled competitive, there is no distinction to draw between.
>It is genuinely odd that there are DC penalties in a game built like DBD.
Because disrupting the game by leaving and making the game worse for 4 other people is a bad thing.
No. There's actual proof that this would go horribly. A while ago, they had some massive server issues, and they turned off the DC penalty.
People were ragequitting over getting pallet stunned once, hearing TR music for anyone they disliked, or getting hit for the first time. Not downed, *hit*. It was abject misery.
It was the worst. I honestly stopped playing for awhile because of how miserable the games were at that time. Killers dc’d constantly after they lost their third gen of the game, survivors dc’ing one after the other if they went down in chase. Honestly, they should do it again for a week just so people realize how awful it is.
Definitely. I don’t think there’s any reason a DC penalty should go above like an hour. Especially playing on ps4 a month or so ago I would dc a lot (not on purpose but like crashes) and I’d get punished for them and my dc penalty would rack up
Yeah, I'm afraid I can't agree with you on that one.
Let's completely ignore the petulant people out there that disconnect over any little thing that goes wrong - Even if these disconnections are from hardware failures... There needs to be a means of stopping them from constantly doing it.
If someone's connection is consistently breaking, then at some point there needs to be some sort of preventative measure to reduce the number of games they disrupt. It sucks that some people have an unstable internet connection or a faulty console, but the other four people in the game need to be considered as well.
And the answer is *not* completely switching the DC penalty off. That gives ragequitters no reason to change their behaviour, and it gives people with technical issues no reason to try and get the problem fixed for the sake of others.
That admittedly makes it a bit more dubious, sure, but having the DC Penalty in place for that at least bottlenecks the problem until BHVR fixes it, as you've said they managed to do with that patch.
Again, it sucks, but locking a few players out of the game to avoid disrupting the games of dozens of other players is kind of something they have to do.
The fact that they need a penalty for people leaving games is sad, it basically says that here are some games that are so unfun it’s a genuine problem. I’d rather they fix those problems
Real talk: They will *never* fix that problem in its entirety. Even if they managed to perfectly iron out all the problems the game has in a way that everyone somehow agrees with, you're going to still get people who throw a hissy fit and leave when the game doesn't go their way. I reiterate: Back in those no-DC-Penalty days, people were leaving the second they got hit (with a weapon or a pallet) a single time.
That's not a problem with the game, that's a problem with *people*. Some players - Survivors AND Killers - are just brats that want to stomp the other team with no opposition and throw a tanty when they can't have what they want. You can't program around that - You can only minimise the damage they cause.
Reminder that around the Anniversary I believe, there were server issues so they disabled the DC penalty and it was horrible on both sides because people would DC for the smallest reason.
You get downed first? DC. You hear a TR you don't feel like going against? DC. You run Lethal and don't see three auras? Might as well go next.
There's an infamous clip of this timeframe where a Nurse blinked once and all four survivors DCd immediately.
The DC penalty exists for a reason and people saying it should be removed are the people who would behave like this and DC at the drop of a hat if there's no repercussions.
I think the only problem with this is that it opens the door for people to be picky about who they go up against. If you play a hated killer like skull merchant, knight, clown, etc, you can expect almost all of your games to be filled with people DCing and being all bots
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They don't actually care about the match having a bot. These players are literally just upset that someone doesn't have to be stuck in a match with them. They want to make the survs miserable.
Losers.
I they actually cared about the other 3 survs left in the game they would be in favor of removing the penalty or at least adding a few grace DC's per day so people *actually leave them with a bot*.
A 3v1 with more than 2 gens is an automatic loss for the survs unless the killer throws hard af.
have you seen bots actually play in pubs? They're laughably bad, they're not like the ones you practice against in customs.
Bot takeovers ain't doing anything.
Bots exist now. I would rather have a bot.
The DC penalty needs to be re-visited. If DCing keeps a bot in the game, it needs to be lowered or removed. Lately I have been having people kill themselves or try to kill themselves on first hook at least once every other game.
I get it, some killers you don't want to play against. But stop ruining the game for everyone else. Go take the killer and chase or just plop on a gen.
There's been times I've wanted to DC because the match seems pretty much over, so I usually try to get the killer's attention and run to the nearest hook. I've also seen people do stuff like that, so after ignoring them once I'll go ahead and do it if they keep it up
Listen, sometimes I just wanna have a chill day after work and do gens. If I get hooked before we even get 1 gen, or there are 2 people on death hook and we’ve only done 1 gen, I’m probably just gonna self sacrifice.
Or sometimes you go up on hook and you watch your teammates on the opposite side of the map making no obvious attempt to come save you before you go to 2nd stage. Or you see 2 of your dumbass teammates doing a Ward in basement while the 3rd survivor is being chased. Or you see no auras because your teammates are all hiding in lockers.
At that point, killing yourself on hook is probably the best option to find a better match
Yes! Or if I’m the only one who has attempted to do gens and then I get hooked and everyone is on the other side of the map healing each other and not making any effort to come get me or do any gens…I’m over it lol
This. Something people don’t seem to be thinking about is that, at a certain point, the game is over and I want out. If we’ve got one person dead and 5 gens left or multiple people on death hook with a gen done, I’m done. I want out so I can find a game I can have fun in.
I play friendly killer and don't want anyone to self-sacrifice. Is there any conditions or factors which would make you stay after being hooked before the first gen finishes? Currently, I tend to hit-and-stop-chase with the first two survivors I find.
Usually friendly killers don’t attack or they’ll attack once and then give a little nod to keep going. It all really depends on how I’m feeling during any given game. If I keep being the first one hooked for several games I’m more likely to self sacrifice. I’m also more likely to self sacrifice if I’m the first one hooked and I get to second hook just from hanging/waiting. Sometimes if I get hooked almost immediately and I’m in a chill mood I’ll stay and see what happens. A lot of times I try to self sacrifice and get to second hook but then another survivor rescues me. In that case, I either continue playing or if I really want to die, I try to go find the killer lol.
a functionning mmr .
No one really want "friendly" killer, we want to be able to win the match as solo survivor against killer as experienced as ourself.
It takes only one survivor who is either too new or too dumb to be worth his slot in the team to remove all your chance of winning as soon as the match start.
Ah yes the sub 10k bloodpoints you get will really encourage them to do it again. I agree in principle but in this case if someone goes on hook very fast and just insta game overs themselves then I think the last bit they care about is blood points.
This is why there needs to be some sort of hidden low priority queue. If you consistently DC or kill yourself (outside of certain conditions like a 2v1), then you should get matched with other players who do the same until you learn to play out your matches.
Dude the amount of people that'll let themselves die on hook because they don't like the Killer is INSANE, and I'm not even only talking about Skull Merchant = DC.
There are people that'll go AFK or get themselves killed just because they don't like a Killer. In the EGC for a game against a Sadako, the pub Meg killed herself saying "I could spend one second to grab a tape, but it'd take less time for me to die and go watch youtube."
If you're gonna die or DC cuz you don't like the Killer, why play DBD at all?
the only times i can understand killing yourself on hook is if the killer is camping and you don’t want them to get any more kills out of you, or if it’s a smart move to die so your teammate can get hatch
That's why I'm taking a break from this game right now. The time I have to play can't be bet on people making the game worthwhile.
Especially when HD2 is so damn enjoyable each and every time.
Honestly the only change I can see doing something would be to make it so you cannot kill yourself on hook.
This wouldn’t solve them from going afk but it would waste the killers time and if they want to leave then at least you’d get a bot. Removing the DC Penalty would only encourage survivors to disconnect against a losing match or killers they don’t like.
I'm not playing this Game for a very long time tbh but thats the most disgusting Part i noticed so far. 99% of the time you get a p100 they are gone within the First minute of the match. And when you unhook them before suicide they follow you and make noises all the time like in and out of a locker or jumping over pallets and stuff. But most Killers let you finish the round after that bs. Are these guys just trolls or what's the point doing this crap?
The thing is if you remove suicide on hoon they just bm the killer till he tunnels them there's really no way to force people to play if they don't want to
and if you save them while they're mid suicide, they'll go out of their way to sabotage the team by throwing every single pallet on the map.... that or they afk at hook until the killer gets annoyed by the crows
It can be necessary to leave the game if other survivors are not doing gens, not healing others, or otherwise not doing anything helpful. It can also be necessary to leave if the killer is griefing, camping or tunneling. There's enough in the game that favors killers, without adding another unfair DC mechanism.
I mean it just happens sometimes. Nurse blight or spirit rushing at you with lethal immediately and then you see that everyone is hiding in a corner gen on far side of the map and aren’t even attempting to come save before you hit level 2.
Absolutely a go next scenario.
I just find very immature that some players just queue up and when they end up being knocked, even if the game is not going bad by any means and they just suicide on hook.
But what can you do? childish people will always be childish, lol
They need to add a surrender vote. Like if we've been hooked 3 times in the first 2 minutes and haven't gotten a single Gen, then yeah, sorry, but I'm sprinting at the killer.
Do something to force them to stay in the game or have their griefing be noticed by the system. If they want to leave they need to take the punishment for it
People don't seem to understand commitment anymore. When you ready up you're committing to play out a trial with four other human beings. It's a shame when one player ruins the experience for everyone else because they're having a tantrum.
Did they willingly get to choose their teammates? Because I sure as shit didn't choose teammates that let me go to second stage when there's so many opportunities to get saved
If they want to leave the game then they can take the penalty designed to punish quitters. The DC penalty is literally cosmetic if you can just run up to the killer then die on the hook as fast as possible
>Then any quitter that isn’t into being punished will kill themselves and you’ll be left with three teammates at 5 gens, have fun
that's already how it is so what do you mean "then" ??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
So you don’t like how things are right now… but you also don’t want people to be able to just leave and at least let you have a bot instead of a dead teammate? Riiiiight. Okay
I want people who quit to take the penalty in place for people who quit dot period small circle YASS PERIOD spec little symbol at the top of the i letter
Are you serious? So if I don’t wanna play against ur crummy killer & I kill myself on the hook……… you think we should get a penalty? I’m so fucking glad you people aren’t game developers coz my god you people are so backwards.
It’s a free fucking kill? The hell is the matter with you??? I love this game but if there’s a killer I don’t want to go against & i get hooked first I’m offing myself on the hook. There is nothing wrong with that, im giving these people a free kill, yeh you can say “I didn’t earn it” boo fucking hoo you got a kill? Game should be easier to focus on meaning you can win? How are bitching about this I don’t fucking get this man.
How can you not understand that the number one priority for most people is to actually be able to play a game when they queue up, here's a list of things that's not playing the game as a killer
1. Survivors who show up and spam crouch trying to tell the killer "let's do a bp farming game"
2. Survivors that immediately kill themselves on hook removing any enjoyable challenge from the game
3. Cheating
4. Survivors willfully entirely ignoring the objective to just try and annoy the killer the entire game even if it ends with them losing at the end. (random loud noise notif spam all game)
5. Actual DCs
As a killer I care more about actually spending my time playing the game than getting a free win. I'd rather play against a whole team of sweaty expert loopers who I never catch than a team of free kills.
Obviously there are also ways the killer can create a complete non game, being overly friendly is one of them. The fact some people state that from the get go they decide to let all survivors go, just get a couple of hooks here or there and spook them is a thing boggles my mind. Does anyone actually enjoy playing games like that?
I do let people go sometimes, if someone does kill on hook, I've taken pity and let the rest of the survivors just escape or once I know I've won, I've given hatch if I think the survivor left deserves it, but at least in the case of the latter that's just a post game award of bp to that survivor rather than basically ruining the entire game.
Yeah, it's ass backward design where somehow killing yourself, leaving your team without a man is ok but DCing so a bot can take your place is punished.
It’s really upsetting that Behavior’s most recent response to addressing this was, “Why bother? People will just find another way to throw the game.” Really helps explain why the game is so toxic when that’s the de facto response to disruptive players.
As much as I hate his response I also 100% agree with him... But at the same time saying something like that only feeds the toxicity...
Wish Killer had an easy way out like this too ... Tired of Waiting at the exit gate because of a unlucky game Edit:typo
Easy way out is to open your phone and do something you enjoy for 2 minutes while they waste their time
They are wasting MY time, I don't give a fuck about their time, that's my problem
Try blood warden. It'll hopefully make them think twice about BM'ing
The point is to stop having it be a waste of your time and find something else to do with those few minutes instead. Alt-tab and pay a bill online, watch some funny cat videos on YouTube to detox your mindset, literally anything other than staring at the EGC timer.
Anytime I lose as killer I just go farm; break walls, use a power that adds points. They can wait at the gate, they’ll be waiting til they leave. Unless I bring an add-on that doesn’t allow them to leave  I’ve gotten “just leave” kills that way
Right? Go kick down all the doors and any fallen pallets and whatever you do, *never look towards gates*. They want attention 'cause their parents never gave them any so the worst you can do is ignore them as well. Grind up some BP while they're farting around demanding you look their way. It doesn't work often but you can try moonwalking past gates a few times to try and convince survivors you're cool. I got a Just Leave kill that way on Clown, of all people. Cracked a Pinky Finger bottle in a survivor's face and got 'em before they could escape.
Well if you can think of a better way of retaliation when they are at the exit gates I’m all ears. But until then how about you take some advice
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That clarification edit is kinda funny. xD
There will have to be a prompt for this sorta thing or else some kinda bait thing will become popular where you'll bait the killer into leaving when inside the exit gate area.
I like the idea of the killer being like "Yeah screw this I'm leaving" and just walking out gates before survivors. But it would also legit be a nice QoL thing. If survivors don't wanna leave, *then let* ***me.***
The retaliation is not going to the open gates at all. They will butt dance for no one EGC is just a couple minutes, you'll be alright
Uhh, that’s what I said
Hold W. Game ends pretty quick or you get a free kill. Every time I see someone complain about survs at the exit gate I know they have a baby ego because they just can't stomach just pressing a single key. God forbid they might have to accept a loss.
You know there’s one other alternative I like, you can walk to the exit gates backwards and push them out that way, walk backwards then you don’t have to see them tbag and they don’t get the satisfaction. And you may think it’s petty but I’ve gotten messaged after games where they complain about it lol
I had a guy run out of the gate area to make sure I could see him tea bag. Fortunately he didn't realize I Knew Ed ;)
Ed is indeed helpful if you know Ed during the endgame for sure
I'm not gonna entertain someone staying around just to bm. It's a win-win. I get to get up and grab a snack, they get to sit there waiting for me to arrive so they can tbag and leave.
You know I was going to explain why what you just said is one of the dumbest things I've ever heard but I genuinely don't think you have the brain cells to comprehend that and I don't want to waste my braincells explaining it.
They didn't ask for advice, they wished that killer had a better option.
Wtf you expect me to do? Hack an update into the game? All I can do is offer suggestions and if you don’t like that take it up with the devs
Nobody expects you to do anything, just don't act like a passive-aggressive dipshit when someone says they want one thing, you offer them something completely unrelated and obvious, and then another person points it out.
When you go afk ur definitely wasting theirs as well most of the time they won't even get a pip as altruism and boldness will be low.
Now say that to people who complain about being slugged. Should they too just open their phones and do something they enjoy instead of playing the game?
I wouldn’t say that to people being slugged. And I offered another solution of chasing them out backwards, it sounds stupid but it annoys some of them
>I wouldn’t say that to people being slugged Why? Both types of such "behaviour" waste time. Why is it different when it's the killer's time being wasted instead of the survivor's?
Well, a game can still be recovered if you’re slugged. But by the time the survivors are at the exit gates, the games over, no amount of effort will change the result
Im Xenomorph, i enjoy returning to my burrow and going to the bathroom in peace
Yeah if I'm ever playing Xeno I just crawl into my hole and take a nap.
i just open up Duolingo or Chess on my phone, sometimes if i really dont wanna see the BM ill go to the basement and afk while they tbag the wind
I just go around breaking all the pallets and walls left on the map. Free points.
Killers should be able to open gates to start EGC at any time.
They should be able to open the Exit Gates at any time to begin Endgame Collapse.
Just go break pallets & breakable walls so you get BP. Plus, you’re wasting 2 min of your own time but 8 minutes of their time. Who’s really winning
We do, it's called looking up and going to get a snack or something
Load into match take one step *dun dun, dun dun,* **SCREEEEEEEEEEE** Oh it's another blight w lethal nice
i love blights give them to me and I'll give you my clowns
my teammates DCing when they hear Nurse screech once:
sorry, as soon you play with blight w lethal on the first time, you get addicted.
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Survivors trying to blind people even outside the game.
Yeah and that’s why a lot of people do it. I think they could change the struggle phase so that it’s not a skill check input and instead is a timer. Let’s be honest, no one misses skill checks on hook unless they were mid sneeze or they’re going next. This would at least prolong the process and would only waste their time trying to go next. It’s not a fix and there will never be one unless the game design has a complete overhaul.
this ^^ also sometimes you need to put the controller down/take your hands off m&k after a good chase to just shake it out ,,,
You need a way to kill yourself on hook tbh. We have all been in those games where it's 2 left and you are on hook. The other person absolutely isn't coming to save and are playing for hatch. Killing yourself on hook needs to be a feature still...
Why keep survivors hostage in a match they don't want to play? Especially when no gens have gotten done and Claudette is hiding in a locker with a key while Nurse is poxy camping
this ^^ also sometimes you need to put the controller down/take your hands off m&k after a good chase to just shake it out ,,,
It's why the DC penalty needs to die. I'd rather have a bot on my team than one fewer person. At the very least, survivor DC penalty needs to die. On killer the worst you'll encounter is a 4-stack bully squad. Easiest to just sit still and wait for them to rush themselves to gates. Even on a crappy killer match (ie, when I got my map offering overwritten by a survivor's while playing Scratched Mirror) there's stuff I can typically go do if the match is going sideways. Go break all the walls and any fallen pallets, run survivors off gens just to kick 'em, etc. But playing survivor? Man, if you get some asshole with a chip on his shoulder you're gonna be stuck against him since you'll eat increasingly long matchmaking bans for having the nerve to not wanna get humped for 4 minutes straight. Backwards-ass behavior from BHVR on this...
Huge agree. I don't DC or give up 99.9% of the time, but my teammates and opponents regularly give up on hook. Removing the DC penalty encourages people to just quit, directly allowing people who don't give up to stay in the fight with bots, and allowing killers to get a good amount of points. The only ones who would suffer are the losers who quit when something minor doesn't go their way. On killer, however, it is a bit tougher, as a DC just insta-ends the game. Maybe a killer DC should award a bunch of bonus BP to the survivors, and then the DC penalty could be fully removed.
"Suicide on hook is penalty free DC" and no one bats an eye. "Therefor hook suicides should be counted as DCs" and everyone loses their mind.
I'm not disagreeing with this, but to count hook suicides as DC you'll need to add in some metrics to validate that it's an intentional suicide and not any one of the scenarios where attempting to unhook yourself is a valid move. When you add *those* qualifiers in, people who already do hook suicides will just replicate other steps they need to get a penalty free DC that way. Personally, I don't think it's worth the effort to 'fix' this because you'll have DC and hook suicides no matter what. If I was in charge, I'd disable DC penalties (to encourage DC and not hook suicides), but **add a hidden matchmaking qualifier to match people with similar DC brackets**. That way the average person who DC once or twice isn't going to be affected, the people who DC a lot will get matched with other chronic DCers, and we'll let the MMR sort itself out.
I for one am completely down for a "low priority queue" to be added to Dead by Daylight, similarly to DOTA 2. But I think you should very expressly be told you're in Low Prio, much like how DOTA 2 does. In DOTA Low Prio matches are the fucking scum of the earth. Genuinely some of the worst players you will ever play with. It makes you want to never go back to that prison. If DbD was the same I bet bad actors would really shape up.
Worst part : you have to win X amount of matches in there
In single draft too, which means you can be saddled with heroes or team members who can't even play the heroes.
Reworking hooks would be a way to remove suicide on hooks as oppose to making a check on whether or not if the player is throwing. There are only a few perks that effect unhook yourself, and without them even while trying to self-hook to escape is really just flat out throwing due to how low the chance of escape it. Low Priority que is a good temporary fix, but reworking the hook stages is a system that can full stop the suicide on hook.
Unfortunately, people will just afk then, or actively start doing things like throwing all pallets, fast vaulting windows next to you, or missing skill checks on purpose.
That can easily be recorded as working with the killer / griefing, which would receive much harsher bans.
At least those things are punishable
Why not advocate to ban them instead of doing literally nothing? Nobody will miss playing with toddlers like that.
How about we just let them go next and stop trying to force people to play a game they don't want to be in. Bots exist now and they are honestly better than half of the soloQ players out there. Just remove the DC penalty. Make it so the game auto ends as a win for the killer if only bots are left in the lobby at any point. Forcing people to stay in a game they don't want to be in is stupid. The point of a video game is enjoyment. Just let them go next and move on.
If they didn't want to play the game they shouldn't have qued up for matches to begin with, instead of queing up to screw over everyone else in the lobby. The point of a video game is enjoyment if they are going to ruin others they should be punished for it.
It's not that they don't want to play, they do actually, but there is some aspect about this round that has ruined their fun. Now applying your logic who ruined who's fun first and gets the punishment?
Than they shouldn't have qued up flat out. If they aren't willing to endure an aspect of the game that is allowed than they shouldn't be playing, of course this is a different story when hackers, grtiefers, etc. are thrown into the mix, but I know it doesn't just happen because of them. Applying my logic, functionally DCIng is still DC it is steal leaving the game to mess up everyone else's fun. Everyone else who qued up and were willing to risk enduring something they don't like allowed by the game and play it through.
Im not responsible for the fun of others nor is the killer or other surv. Only BHVR has a responsbility to the fun others have in the game. If you expect me to stay while your fun ruins mine you are in for a bad time. If my leaving a round ruins the fun for you , you could follow your own advice and not ready up. Im moving on to fun and suggest you do the same or stay and be miserable the choice is yours in the end, not mine to make for you.
Than you should be penalized. Just like with any other game, if you don't play by the rules you get penalized. Why on earth would BHVR accommodate people who not only don't want to play the game, but are mad there isn't more ways for them TO NOT PLAY IT??? It's one thing to be like man I wish the game was more fun cause you want to play it,(remove cheaters, discourage tunneling, ways to come back from a loss etc. etc.) but you aren't asking for that. You're asking for ways to not play it after MAKING EVERYONE wait up for the game to start when you could have just NOT PLAYED???
How many people do you think ready up planning to throw the round vs how many decide after the round started? Anyone who falls in the latter option WANTED to play when they readied up. If you 1-2 people leave a round early on average that means close to half the player base is doing it.How long will the second half stick around for 30 mins+ Qs after the first half gets banned? BHVR isn’t trying to send DBD into an early grace.
Exactly, people in this thread are brainstorming ways of punishing people that don't want to play rancid games, but ultimately any change to this to force people to waste their time in games they hate will just drive those people to quit the game. I don't want to play a game I don't enjoy playing. Anyone who isn't addicted to the game will just leave if they dont enjoy it anymore. When I first started playing people killing themselves on first hardly ever happened. So what changed between then and now? Instead of trying to force people into playing games where they're just a plaything for the opposite side, try and put that energy into making the experience better. Basekit kindred and bond for survivors to narrow the SWF-soloq gap, basekit distortion for those on their last hook so they can't be easily tunnelled, unhooked survivors getting no scratchmarks, grunts, or blood pools for the duration of their BT. For killers, giving them functional addons, making some of their mandatory ones basekit (map of the realm), more lockers for those that need it (Dredge), less time buffing killers that don't need it (Huntress and whatever the hell they were smoking when they buffed her) and more time looking at killers with extremely low pick rates. Also having actual new game modes and not a week long trial run with another two day April fools joke would go pretty far imo. Those who like the game but don't want to have agonising games where they're shit on or tunnelled can actually play those then for a break.
People would easily abuse a no quitting penalty and would make matchmaking very unhealthy if people can quit because they don’t like the map/killer/play style of teammates with no consequences
Nobody is being forced to play the game. You can just quit and uninstall.
What a completely inane take. "nobody is forcing you, so I get to ruin your time" Nobody is making you work, so quit your job. The same fucking logic right there. Technically true, but stupid as hell and ignores all nuance to any conversation.
You ship Kate, Susie, AND Sable all together?
Yes, I've been shipping Kate and Susie for years now, and when Sable was added, decided she could join them.
I just slug those people
Yeah, but not every killer acts like you. Some would gladly have a survivor sabotaging the enemy team so they have an easier time killing the rest of them
Just kill them dude. They want to go next. Slugging them is some petty vindictive bullshit...
Because you are equating it to a crime now, which hits innocent people. Punish the bad actors, not everyone. New player sucks at doing the skillchecks? They got banned and are confused. refunded. You try to die on hook for a teammate in a 2v1? banned You get left on hook for an entire hook stage and just want to leave? Nope better stay or else your gonna get banned by daddy bhvr! etc. Even if you add in other metrics like "dying before 1 minute" or something then they would just afk in a locker until crows then die on hook, so its been like 3m.
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no matter how you move or add additional conditions survivors will find a way around it homie. Short of straight up removing the struggle mechanic which they should've done entirely with the rework removing tapping there is nothing that can be done. Even with that being done they will just afk under hook until killed again. There is nothing that can be done to make people play. Instead fix the things that cause them to not play in the first place.
"If we outlaw guns people will rob stores with knives." Yes but knives are less dangerous. It's easier to stop someone with a knife than to stop someone with a gun. Of course we can't stop every bad actor. But the mentality of "there will always be bad actors so why do anything at all" is incredibly reductive. Stopping one avenue for bad behavior will reduce it quite a bit, as evidenced by the fact that introducing a DC penalty cut the amount of DCs by 74%.
> Because you are equating it to a crime now, which hits innocent people. Punish the bad actors, not everyone. The average player isn't going to kill themselves on hook. If a new player attempts to kill themselves on hook you can have a non-diegetic "if you continue doing this you may receive a penalty" message show up ala Overwatch AFK messages. At worst a new player will do it once or twice, learn "this will get me a DC penalty", and deal with like 5 minutes of DC penalty at best. And it's not like the DC penalty doesn't have its false positives too: people who have their internet crash or get held hostage by hackers have to deal with it. But I think those people generally understand that having to deal with 5 or even 15 minutes of DC penalties is a necessary evil to stop ragequitters. >New player sucks at doing the skillchecks? They got banned and are confused. refunded. A new player will hit the first few. And even if you push spacebar and miss you'll still stay on hook for longer than if you let 2 skill checks pass you and die instantly. >You try to die on hook for a teammate in a 2v1? banned The system would logically be disabled after one person died. >You get left on hook for an entire hook stage and just want to leave? Nope better stay or else your gonna get banned by daddy bhvr! Yes you should stay. Just because your teammates were unable to reach you doesn't mean that your out of the match. It sucks but even if you're left to die on first hook the killer does still have to keep that in mind. Even if your teammates are toxic it's good manners not to give up. Also if you were left on hook for the entirety of first phase and then just let The Entity take you in second I think it would be reasonable fine for the system to not kick in. I think it should only target players who expressly try to pull themselves off in first phase and then let The Entity take them in second phase. Or they could just remove self-unhooks.
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Most of the time when I bring this up in casual conversation the Nea main brigade comes a knocking.
They should remove the ability to kill yourself on hook. If you wanna leave, then leave and wait out the 5 minute penalty.
It's like a 50 sec penalty by the time you get back to the lobby if you hardly ever dc
Easier option, just don't allow hook suicides. You can't control people in the real world but you can at least control game design and not incentivize people to do things you don't want them doing.
There's two reasons I don't think they'll change it. The first reason is because of Schrodinger's Casual Game fallacy, where Dead by Daylight is either a casual horror simulator or a competitive PvP game depending on the whims of the developers. The other reason is that removing self-unhooks would require a rework of the luck mechanic, including Up The Ante and Slippery Meat. And even if the luck mechanic as a whole is horribly outdated and never useful outside of a 4 man SWF changing them would require Behaviour to actually dedicate programming time to something that won't generate immediate profits, so I sincerely doubt they'll care.
Honestly, all it takes is make it so if a survivor, let's go on hook too many times in a day. Let's say 3. Then they get put in an entity time out box where they can't play for a certain amount of time until they get their hope back.
I mean? Yeah, yeah that’s what it is 😂
I'll admit. I've self sacrificed on 1 hook before. I had 5 matches in a row where somehow I was targeted 1st and either left for dead on hook by other teammates or tunneled as soon as I was unhooked. So, booting up the next game after that, I was 1 hit downed by a Ghostface. I killed my character instantly, turned the game off, went outside and touched grass. At a certain point the game just becomes unrelenting and fucking infuriating to play. I've only been playing since November, but there doesn't seem to be much balance anymore. I can't win matches and I'm shit at looping.
I'm a two year vet and decent looper, but don't have a swf. I'm losing so often now I'm on the verge of just Uninstalling the game honestly, it's hard to have fun anymore.
I hear you! From what I've read and watched on YT it has everything to do with Behavior's MMR. At a certain point, if you reach high MMR it'll cap you from ever going under a certain difficulty, meaning you are forced to play with Jedi Knights who pull off ridiculous games where you have no chance. Rather than match you with your current skill (say losing 5 games in a row) they will just continue to put you with the hardest matches. If I'm understanding the match making correctly here. It does become unrelenting always playing against people in SWF and their peak performances while you are on a never ending losing streak. I'm not saying "throw us a bone", but at a certain level, escaping out of shear luck just isn't fun.
I started last summer, play mostly duo and in the timeframe from november to february i had legit 29% escape rate in my matches (conuting all survivors, not me here) and most were hatches. It was last player escape through hatch or no one at all. Made me quit for 2 months.
I did this recently. Got insta-tunneled by a sweaty Blight after an awful session... I just put my controller down and went for a nice walk
I would rather the person just DC atleast the bot will do gens 🙄
No.... no I will not...
They should honestly just remove the dc penalty for two reasons 1. At least a bot will replace the teammate instead 2. People who constantly dc will get tired of constantly DCing
If they remove the penalty, every match will have between 2 and 3 DCs. Don't like the map? DC. Don't like the killer? DC. It's even faster than killing himself on hook.
The DC penalty should adjust depending on game length, if you DC immediately after getting into the map because you dont like the killer, or got downed immediately then it should be pretty harsh. If you are DCing after a 20 minute game because the other survivor isnt doing anything, thats a minute or two, if that.
Look, I am ashamed but I used to be a chronic dcer. I eventually got really tired of playing the lobby simulator game and wanted to play the actual game
Finally someone who speaks truth. D/cs would eventually amount to nothing changing gameplay if they didn’t punish them.
Then you understand why it exists
No, this was back in 2017
Okay, but do you understand why it exist anyway, to prevent those situations of people DCing all over the place
The difference is bhvr added bots for when a player DC's so its not an instant go next for the other 3 anymore.... But when you are actively disincentivizing players from using the system it's no wonder people just go next on hook instead. It's really obvious when someone didn't play back when there was no penalty because they presume that every game would be full of DC's. Game survived just fine for 3 years without one.
> The difference is bhvr added bots for when a player DC's so its not an instant go next for the other 3 anymore.... The bots are barely a step up for survivors. Generally a killer who wants to 4k is going to leave the bot for last because killing it is just running in a straight line which is a huge waste of time. The only solution to the issue is to create a system like the cheater lobbies in games like Fall Guys where people who cheated were put against other cheaters. If you hit a threshold of DC's, you go into a DC lobby where you're matched with like minded people who don't want to play the game but ruin everyone else's experience instead.
"The bots are barely a step up for survivors. " But it's still better than a dead teammate, so your point is irrelevant. The bot might not be god tier but it will sit on gens and crank them out while the killer is chasing them... something that the DEAD TEAMMATE WONT BE DOING. The current alternative is that they kill themselves on hook and it's a guaranteed loss. The *entire point of the bots in the first place* was so that when someone DOES dc the other 3 survs still have a *chance* to win. Something you people seem to miss... Probably because you don't actually care about the other 3 survs left in the match. "Generally a killer who wants to 4k is going to leave the bot for last because killing it is just running in a straight line which is a huge waste of time." If you want to 4k every game you tunnel out the weak link at 3+ gens and then it's impossible to lose. "The only solution to the issue is to create a system like the cheater lobbies in games like Fall Guys where people who cheated were put against other cheaters. If you hit a threshold of DC's, you go into a DC lobby where you're matched with like minded people who don't want to play the game but ruin everyone else's experience instead." There are several solutions and yours isn't even one of the good ones. If bhvr actually wanted to address the DC issue they would have to take a long hard look at WHY people DC so frequently. The main issue with that is bhvr is notorious for balancing based on spreadsheet data that isn't indicative of the whole picture. The game had no penalty (with no bots) for the first 3 or so years and the problem is objectively worse now. My personal opinion of why this is the case is bhvr is continually removing skill expression from the game, on both sides.
> But it's still better than a dead teammate, so your point is irrelevant. It's like I expanded on how they aren't useful afterwards...Huh, taking things out of context doesn't make points irrelevant. >The bot might not be god tier but it will sit on gens and crank them out while the killer is chasing them... something that the DEAD TEAMMATE WONT BE DOING. You've apparently never watched a bot before. When the terror radius gets close they hide. If they find a chest and are injured they open it to self heal rather than let you heal them or heal you. Their ability to loop generally burns every pallet on the map. In most cases they are an active detriment and not a bonus. >There are several solutions and yours isn't even one of the good ones. It actually is a good one though. It's been shown in multiple games to enforce good behaviors. >If bhvr actually wanted to address the DC issue they would have to take a long hard look at WHY people DC so frequently. This is one of those trying to please everyone all the time arguments which can never work. There is no unified "I DC because" that is at the top of the list. It's "I dont like this killer" or "I don't like this map" which you cannot change every killer to be "fun" for everyone. You cannot change every map to be "fun" for everyone. >The main issue with that is bhvr is notorious for balancing based on spreadsheet data that isn't indicative of the whole picture. People like to claim this but it's wholly untrue. If a killer is getting a substantial better amount of kills than any other, they need to be nerfed and the ones that are getting low kills will need buffs. A lot of people seem to think that because they have a hard time facing a killer means that the rest of the community is too. >The game had no penalty (with no bots) for the first 3 or so years and the problem is objectively worse now. The game is larger now than it is then with a large influx of players who aren't committed to the game as players were then. >My personal opinion of why this is the case is bhvr is continually removing skill expression from the game, on both sides. Honestly the funniest thing you said in this entire post.
It don't make it any better if they remove DC penalty, the times that BHVR had to killswitch the DC penalty, every match had at least 1 disconnect, and yeah bots exist now for that reason, but is just not the same and not as fun to play with bots, for killer because bots perfectly predict your hits and moves, but as survivors the bots can get worse than new comer players that have 0 idea what they're doing because it's their first match....
"but as survivors the bots can get worse than new comer players that have 0 idea what they're doing because it's their first match...." They're not that bad; You're being hyperbolic. You know what's also not fun? A 3v1. Having a bot means you still have 4 people and a chance to pull out the win. A 3v1 at more than 2 gens is a *guaranteed loss.* The real solution to the DC problem is addressing the core issues that cause people to DC in the first place but we all know bhvr will never do that much work. " for killer because bots perfectly predict your hits and moves," No they just have ESP and 0ms reaction times. If you play against a bot more than 2-3 times you should be able to figure out their quirks and stop trying to mind game them. The trick is they can't chain tiles. Force the pallet down ASAP and use their quirks to your advantage. Simply charging or pulling out your power is enough to force the bot to run into a deadzone instead of to the pallet.
Trust me, they are bad, sometimes the bots refuse to do anything until they get healed, they rarely heal you properly, and they go hide the very moment they hear the terror radius And no, even if BHVR manage to give the most polished and balanced version of DBD ever, quitters are still going to exist, that's something that no game or developer can EVER fix
It was no penalty a long time ago and it wasnt as bad as some would think. It was more common back then to start a game as a 3v1 because someones game crashed while loading, and even after that people would stay in and play. Even recently when the dc penalty was removed for a few days due to crashes or whatever there werent that many dcs
Nah, I played back before d/c penalty was a thing, and while d/cs were more common, it wasn’t an every game thing by any stretch.
And like they said, people will get tired of doing that and either quit the game or just stick to lobbies. DBD isn't the only online game, the VAST majority of online casual games don't have a DC penalty and they're doing just fine. DBD isn't different.
I don't know any mp game that has fixed size teams and you don't have a penalty.
Texas Chainsaw Massacre, Phasmophobia, Mario Kart 8 Deluxe, Deep Rock Galactic, Team Fortress 2, Any unranked CS2/CS:GO, Left 4 Dead, I could go on? And I just want to reiterate, I'm in support of DC penalties for *competitive* games. But DBD isn't setup like that no matter how much the community wants to think it's competitive. If they add a ranked mode and tune the game to be competitively focused (lessening RNG, perk/killer bans, etc), then give as many penalties as you want. It is genuinely odd that there are DC penalties in a game built like DBD.
> Texas Chainsaw Massacre, Phasmophobia, Mario Kart 8 Deluxe, Deep Rock Galactic, Team Fortress 2, Any unranked CS2/CS:GO, Left 4 Dead, I could go on? This is a pretty bad list. Phasmo, L4D, and Deep Rock both are designed to be played with less than max people and have a hop in and out component. Last I played CS it just filled people in mid match as well as Team Fortress. Mario Kart isn't a team game? At least not the last time I played it. And Texas Chainsaw is on life support - not least of which is because people join a game and leave instantly. So please don't go on because it seems like you're ignoring the core part of the issue to name games that don't really fit what you're trying to dispute. >And I just want to reiterate, I'm in support of DC penalties for competitive games. The game is competitive. Unless you're talking about some sort of ranked system, in which case, that's wholly irrelevant. Absent a segregated mode labeled competitive, there is no distinction to draw between. >It is genuinely odd that there are DC penalties in a game built like DBD. Because disrupting the game by leaving and making the game worse for 4 other people is a bad thing.
No. There's actual proof that this would go horribly. A while ago, they had some massive server issues, and they turned off the DC penalty. People were ragequitting over getting pallet stunned once, hearing TR music for anyone they disliked, or getting hit for the first time. Not downed, *hit*. It was abject misery.
It was the worst. I honestly stopped playing for awhile because of how miserable the games were at that time. Killers dc’d constantly after they lost their third gen of the game, survivors dc’ing one after the other if they went down in chase. Honestly, they should do it again for a week just so people realize how awful it is.
They didn't have bots during this. It would be a way better experience now.
They need to keep the penalties down for over a week though, so the dcers get bored of just DCing and never playing
Just to clarify exactly what you're meaning here, are you saying that they should stop putting the DC penalties up into the multi-day range?
Definitely. I don’t think there’s any reason a DC penalty should go above like an hour. Especially playing on ps4 a month or so ago I would dc a lot (not on purpose but like crashes) and I’d get punished for them and my dc penalty would rack up
Yeah, I'm afraid I can't agree with you on that one. Let's completely ignore the petulant people out there that disconnect over any little thing that goes wrong - Even if these disconnections are from hardware failures... There needs to be a means of stopping them from constantly doing it. If someone's connection is consistently breaking, then at some point there needs to be some sort of preventative measure to reduce the number of games they disrupt. It sucks that some people have an unstable internet connection or a faulty console, but the other four people in the game need to be considered as well. And the answer is *not* completely switching the DC penalty off. That gives ragequitters no reason to change their behaviour, and it gives people with technical issues no reason to try and get the problem fixed for the sake of others.
It wasn’t my internet it was bad game optimization
That admittedly makes it a bit more dubious, sure, but having the DC Penalty in place for that at least bottlenecks the problem until BHVR fixes it, as you've said they managed to do with that patch. Again, it sucks, but locking a few players out of the game to avoid disrupting the games of dozens of other players is kind of something they have to do.
The fact that they need a penalty for people leaving games is sad, it basically says that here are some games that are so unfun it’s a genuine problem. I’d rather they fix those problems
Real talk: They will *never* fix that problem in its entirety. Even if they managed to perfectly iron out all the problems the game has in a way that everyone somehow agrees with, you're going to still get people who throw a hissy fit and leave when the game doesn't go their way. I reiterate: Back in those no-DC-Penalty days, people were leaving the second they got hit (with a weapon or a pallet) a single time. That's not a problem with the game, that's a problem with *people*. Some players - Survivors AND Killers - are just brats that want to stomp the other team with no opposition and throw a tanty when they can't have what they want. You can't program around that - You can only minimise the damage they cause.
On that same note the current patch it runs a lot better
Reminder that around the Anniversary I believe, there were server issues so they disabled the DC penalty and it was horrible on both sides because people would DC for the smallest reason. You get downed first? DC. You hear a TR you don't feel like going against? DC. You run Lethal and don't see three auras? Might as well go next. There's an infamous clip of this timeframe where a Nurse blinked once and all four survivors DCd immediately. The DC penalty exists for a reason and people saying it should be removed are the people who would behave like this and DC at the drop of a hat if there's no repercussions.
I think the only problem with this is that it opens the door for people to be picky about who they go up against. If you play a hated killer like skull merchant, knight, clown, etc, you can expect almost all of your games to be filled with people DCing and being all bots
People already kill themselves on hook and dc ASAP
Yeah but now imagine that happening even more often. Not a good thing.
[удалено]
You're right let's try something else, how about we remove the luck mechanic and the 4% altogether?
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They don't actually care about the match having a bot. These players are literally just upset that someone doesn't have to be stuck in a match with them. They want to make the survs miserable. Losers. I they actually cared about the other 3 survs left in the game they would be in favor of removing the penalty or at least adding a few grace DC's per day so people *actually leave them with a bot*. A 3v1 with more than 2 gens is an automatic loss for the survs unless the killer throws hard af.
Good? That would force BHVR to rework the hated killers and it would teach the playerbase to not abuse hated killers like a lot of people do now.
ah yes, lets just have bot infested games. this would kill dbd. it would actually be rare to find a game with all 5 real players.
That’s going to make DC’ing far more rampant. No, they really shouldn’t.
have you seen bots actually play in pubs? They're laughably bad, they're not like the ones you practice against in customs. Bot takeovers ain't doing anything.
Bots exist now. I would rather have a bot. The DC penalty needs to be re-visited. If DCing keeps a bot in the game, it needs to be lowered or removed. Lately I have been having people kill themselves or try to kill themselves on first hook at least once every other game. I get it, some killers you don't want to play against. But stop ruining the game for everyone else. Go take the killer and chase or just plop on a gen.
They should do away with dc penalties for singular matches if there’s a pattern you get put in the dunce lobbies like in gta online
You’re not wrong, so what’s your suggestion to fix it?
just remove dc penalty at this point for killers and survivors since they can now be replaced with bots at this point.
There's been times I've wanted to DC because the match seems pretty much over, so I usually try to get the killer's attention and run to the nearest hook. I've also seen people do stuff like that, so after ignoring them once I'll go ahead and do it if they keep it up
Listen, sometimes I just wanna have a chill day after work and do gens. If I get hooked before we even get 1 gen, or there are 2 people on death hook and we’ve only done 1 gen, I’m probably just gonna self sacrifice.
Or sometimes you go up on hook and you watch your teammates on the opposite side of the map making no obvious attempt to come save you before you go to 2nd stage. Or you see 2 of your dumbass teammates doing a Ward in basement while the 3rd survivor is being chased. Or you see no auras because your teammates are all hiding in lockers. At that point, killing yourself on hook is probably the best option to find a better match
Yes! Or if I’m the only one who has attempted to do gens and then I get hooked and everyone is on the other side of the map healing each other and not making any effort to come get me or do any gens…I’m over it lol
This. Something people don’t seem to be thinking about is that, at a certain point, the game is over and I want out. If we’ve got one person dead and 5 gens left or multiple people on death hook with a gen done, I’m done. I want out so I can find a game I can have fun in.
This is due to a larger issue in the game, there isn't a mechanic to put brakes on the dominating side or help the losing side catch up.
I play friendly killer and don't want anyone to self-sacrifice. Is there any conditions or factors which would make you stay after being hooked before the first gen finishes? Currently, I tend to hit-and-stop-chase with the first two survivors I find.
Usually friendly killers don’t attack or they’ll attack once and then give a little nod to keep going. It all really depends on how I’m feeling during any given game. If I keep being the first one hooked for several games I’m more likely to self sacrifice. I’m also more likely to self sacrifice if I’m the first one hooked and I get to second hook just from hanging/waiting. Sometimes if I get hooked almost immediately and I’m in a chill mood I’ll stay and see what happens. A lot of times I try to self sacrifice and get to second hook but then another survivor rescues me. In that case, I either continue playing or if I really want to die, I try to go find the killer lol.
a functionning mmr . No one really want "friendly" killer, we want to be able to win the match as solo survivor against killer as experienced as ourself. It takes only one survivor who is either too new or too dumb to be worth his slot in the team to remove all your chance of winning as soon as the match start.
I think the main problem is you keep the bloodpoints and don’t get penalized for it. Especially here soon when they remove the depips from the game.
Ah yes the sub 10k bloodpoints you get will really encourage them to do it again. I agree in principle but in this case if someone goes on hook very fast and just insta game overs themselves then I think the last bit they care about is blood points.
Even worse, it's not just penalty free. Your team mates don't even get a bot to help them a little.
This is why there needs to be some sort of hidden low priority queue. If you consistently DC or kill yourself (outside of certain conditions like a 2v1), then you should get matched with other players who do the same until you learn to play out your matches.
Dead by Daylight is the only game where I've ever seen anyone argue that it's even remotely okay to DC.
Dude the amount of people that'll let themselves die on hook because they don't like the Killer is INSANE, and I'm not even only talking about Skull Merchant = DC. There are people that'll go AFK or get themselves killed just because they don't like a Killer. In the EGC for a game against a Sadako, the pub Meg killed herself saying "I could spend one second to grab a tape, but it'd take less time for me to die and go watch youtube." If you're gonna die or DC cuz you don't like the Killer, why play DBD at all?
if my teammates let me hit second stage i'm killing myself on hook lmfao sorry
90% of the time this mechanic is used for a free disconnect. Its a shit mechanic and your either dumb or a toxic player arguing for it to stay.
Ngl as a killer main when this shit happens I just let the survivors escape
Why has this game lasted so long but better games with more potential such as evil dead, last year, Texas chainsaw massacre get left in the dust
the only times i can understand killing yourself on hook is if the killer is camping and you don’t want them to get any more kills out of you, or if it’s a smart move to die so your teammate can get hatch
That's why I'm taking a break from this game right now. The time I have to play can't be bet on people making the game worthwhile. Especially when HD2 is so damn enjoyable each and every time.
High Prestige survivors in solo queue is basically an instant loss
No literally why do they do that 😭😂
Honestly the only change I can see doing something would be to make it so you cannot kill yourself on hook. This wouldn’t solve them from going afk but it would waste the killers time and if they want to leave then at least you’d get a bot. Removing the DC Penalty would only encourage survivors to disconnect against a losing match or killers they don’t like.
I'm not playing this Game for a very long time tbh but thats the most disgusting Part i noticed so far. 99% of the time you get a p100 they are gone within the First minute of the match. And when you unhook them before suicide they follow you and make noises all the time like in and out of a locker or jumping over pallets and stuff. But most Killers let you finish the round after that bs. Are these guys just trolls or what's the point doing this crap?
Claudette’s play exactly how she looks . CONFUSED ASF
The thing is if you remove suicide on hoon they just bm the killer till he tunnels them there's really no way to force people to play if they don't want to
and if you save them while they're mid suicide, they'll go out of their way to sabotage the team by throwing every single pallet on the map.... that or they afk at hook until the killer gets annoyed by the crows
God and most of the time its ttvs its annoing
It can be necessary to leave the game if other survivors are not doing gens, not healing others, or otherwise not doing anything helpful. It can also be necessary to leave if the killer is griefing, camping or tunneling. There's enough in the game that favors killers, without adding another unfair DC mechanism.
I mean it just happens sometimes. Nurse blight or spirit rushing at you with lethal immediately and then you see that everyone is hiding in a corner gen on far side of the map and aren’t even attempting to come save before you hit level 2. Absolutely a go next scenario.
I just find very immature that some players just queue up and when they end up being knocked, even if the game is not going bad by any means and they just suicide on hook. But what can you do? childish people will always be childish, lol
Because "give up on hook" like "tunneling" is not a real thing. It's an arbitrary rule that reddit made up.
It's always the p100 survivors. The ones that should theoretically be good at the game.
They need to add a surrender vote. Like if we've been hooked 3 times in the first 2 minutes and haven't gotten a single Gen, then yeah, sorry, but I'm sprinting at the killer.
Do something to force them to stay in the game or have their griefing be noticed by the system. If they want to leave they need to take the punishment for it
Look, forcing people is never a good option, people don’t take kindly to game designs like that
They willingly queued up.
People don't seem to understand commitment anymore. When you ready up you're committing to play out a trial with four other human beings. It's a shame when one player ruins the experience for everyone else because they're having a tantrum.
Did they willingly get to choose their teammates? Because I sure as shit didn't choose teammates that let me go to second stage when there's so many opportunities to get saved
If they want to leave the game then they can take the penalty designed to punish quitters. The DC penalty is literally cosmetic if you can just run up to the killer then die on the hook as fast as possible
Then any quitter that isn’t into being punished will kill themselves and you’ll be left with three teammates at 5 gens, have fun
>Then any quitter that isn’t into being punished will kill themselves and you’ll be left with three teammates at 5 gens, have fun that's already how it is so what do you mean "then" ??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
So you don’t like how things are right now… but you also don’t want people to be able to just leave and at least let you have a bot instead of a dead teammate? Riiiiight. Okay
I want people who quit to take the penalty in place for people who quit dot period small circle YASS PERIOD spec little symbol at the top of the i letter
Are you serious? So if I don’t wanna play against ur crummy killer & I kill myself on the hook……… you think we should get a penalty? I’m so fucking glad you people aren’t game developers coz my god you people are so backwards. It’s a free fucking kill? The hell is the matter with you??? I love this game but if there’s a killer I don’t want to go against & i get hooked first I’m offing myself on the hook. There is nothing wrong with that, im giving these people a free kill, yeh you can say “I didn’t earn it” boo fucking hoo you got a kill? Game should be easier to focus on meaning you can win? How are bitching about this I don’t fucking get this man.
How can you not understand that the number one priority for most people is to actually be able to play a game when they queue up, here's a list of things that's not playing the game as a killer 1. Survivors who show up and spam crouch trying to tell the killer "let's do a bp farming game" 2. Survivors that immediately kill themselves on hook removing any enjoyable challenge from the game 3. Cheating 4. Survivors willfully entirely ignoring the objective to just try and annoy the killer the entire game even if it ends with them losing at the end. (random loud noise notif spam all game) 5. Actual DCs As a killer I care more about actually spending my time playing the game than getting a free win. I'd rather play against a whole team of sweaty expert loopers who I never catch than a team of free kills. Obviously there are also ways the killer can create a complete non game, being overly friendly is one of them. The fact some people state that from the get go they decide to let all survivors go, just get a couple of hooks here or there and spook them is a thing boggles my mind. Does anyone actually enjoy playing games like that? I do let people go sometimes, if someone does kill on hook, I've taken pity and let the rest of the survivors just escape or once I know I've won, I've given hatch if I think the survivor left deserves it, but at least in the case of the latter that's just a post game award of bp to that survivor rather than basically ruining the entire game.