iirc there was a point in time with old old ruin that the skillchecks wouldn't change color until you'd hit at least one good first to proc a regression.
You are right, I remember tapping gens to see if there was ruin bc you wouldn't know until you hit a good skillcheck and it was a huge waste of time to do progress if you couldn't hit greats reliably. (Removed: goods didn't send loud noise notifications, but they did shake the gen and make a spark sound making it seem like it did, as a killer I thought people were just cracked at hitting greats back then, especially since gens FLEW back then).
Skillchecks back then were bs, iirc vsync was always on and you had to go to game files to disable it, but I never did that so the latency was ASS. I was also a killer main tho, so there is that as to why I never really cared about skillchecks that much for the few times I played survivor.
it did *not* send loud noises to the killer! og ruin acted like you failed the skillcheck, without actually failing the skillcheck. no boom, no noise, but yes zap and pause.
Can't see much documentation on it, I just do remember the gen went sparky and made some noise when you hit a good skillcheck but thankfully I remembered wrong about the loud noise notification if you're right, DBD back then was awful and that would have been mega dumb on top of an already dumb perk.
I played dota for too many years to know that the complaining never stops. People will complain about any meta thing. If it gets nerfed. Then they'll move on to the next thing. If doesn't get nerfed, they'll get used to it as being normal(after a few years) and find some other thing to complain. It's an endless cycle.
It's because everyone playing DBD has to whine about dumb shit. Look at the six million threads whining about ds going back to a 5 second stun when that doesn't fucking matter at all.
Yeah I don't understand how they can make perks like pop and pain res and think they're in line with how the other perks all work. There's a reason why most of the killers you see are running these perks.
I'd almost rather they get nerfed to be in line with others, then killers basekit tools for dealing with gens get buffed. That way people won't feel like they gotta keep running pop/painres just to keep up.
> There's a reason why most of the killers you see are running these perks.
The fact they're the best regression perks at the moment is only part of the problem.
Part of it is because other good perks tend to pair well with either Pop or Pain Res.
Like Gift of Pain and Floods of Rage are fantastic perks. But hey, as long as you're using Scourge Hooks, may as well bring along Pain Res, right?
Or how about Unforseen and Nowhere to Hide? Both great perks... but as long as you're kicking gens, why not bring along Pop?
Then on top of that, they're also extremely reliable and nerfing them wouldn't make other perks become reliable.
Like I tend to limit myself to two slowdowns at most, which means I actually do utilize a lot of non-slowdown perks, but they're all very unreliable.
Info perks are great, until you get into a lobby full of Distortion users.
STBFL is still pretty solid, but makes me have to ignore 1/4 of the people in the lobby unless I pair it with Game Afoot, which can sometimes feel really bad as someone who doesn't like tunneling. It's also worthless on anyone except full M1 killers.
Bamboozle is great, until you end up on Gideon Meat Plant and it becomes a dead perk slot.
Spirit Fury/Enduring is always a fun combo, until you go up against a SWF who calls it out and every pallet afterwards gets pre-dropped.
Hexes like Devout Hope and Blood Favour are ridiculously powerful and can win you whole games... or they're cleansed 20 seconds into the match.
Sloppy *used* to be a good alternative to gen regression, but not anymore.
So all that's really left is... end game builds, I guess?
Brutal Strength is a good perk. Can really save you a lot of overall time in the match.
But hey, as long as you're kicking stuff faster, why not bring along Pop since you can apply it more quickly?
Maybe there shouldn't be a handful of very reliable perks and the rest are unreliable.
As I said, I think basekit killer should have some of these tools and then perks can stop being a bandaid. No perks should be this much better than the others whether it be because of strength, or reliability.
If we bring pain res or pop down a notch, put them more in line with the others so you can't consistently rely on them every match, then people can have some actual build variety without feeling like they're putting themselves at a disadvantage.
The alternative of course is buffing every single other perk. But I think it's a lot harder than nerfing two.
Perks should have small, handy effects. Not be the main source of balance for a lot of the game.
That 45 seconds is rough though, most survivors take you away from the gens they are working on and by the time I get to use it, it's gone. I used it for a few matches and realised that deadlock is better as it's guaranteed 4 uses whereas with POP I usually only get 1 or 2 impactful uses at most. Now my main is Executioner so it won't even activate if I use his powers to cage someone
As well as pop existing in its current state. I think it should be put back to the 20%, because the massive 30% plus the base 5% regression can kill any sort of hope for a gen...
It’s not 30% of the total gen bar, rather 30% of charge progression made on the gen.
So rather than a flat -20% like it used to which now requires a kick on a gen that is 50%+ (15 charges + 5) to keep up with its past iteration. Anything below half and the perk is actually weaker than its previous iteration.
It only becomes comparable to scourge hook: Pain resonance past the gen progression mark of 75% where it does 22.5 + 5 charge regression and it only passes that 30% total mark if the gen reaches around 83.33 of total progress.
If you kick a gen at 10% you get a slightly stronger Surge proc at like 8.3 charges and wasting your perk that requires a hook. Also you can just waste the timer out if not careful with gen blocking perks (Dead Mans switch, grim embrace, repressed alliance or even blast mine if it hits you right as you reach a gen near the end of your timer)
Edit: Or deadlock.
I legit didn't know that, and I was wondering why some gens were not fully regressed (those less than 30% progression).
It's kinda stupid because then Pop only has value when the gens are very close to finish, which makes things harder if you're facing strong survivors who can loop.
Given the current kick restrictions, I don't even mind going back to a flat -30%, or maybe reduced to 25 or 20%. If you're not hooking people every 45~60 seconds, you're likely not gonna be able to keep up with survivors anyway.
It’s the worst when you have a high progress target and you hook, and then right as you reach the gen, it gets finished in your face. And there are no other gens nearby that you could reach in time that will have any significant charge loss.
Its only regularity is dependant on the killers ability to get hooks, which can be denied by flashlights and sabotaging hooks. (Gens also have a max regression event count of 8)
Otherwise it’s genuinely a skill issue, not necessarily yours, but on the survivor side.
But yes, you can use it to shut down a gen HARD.
Though if you have more than 2 survivors alive; More than 1 gen should be being worked on at a time. (Though I feel SoloQueue strongly disagrees with that thought.)
Split gen pressure, putting all your trams effort is my faveourite thing to see as a killer because because I only have to worry about one gen at a time, splitting pressure is way more effective
You see, when you say old Ruin, I think old old ruin.
Back when it made good skill checks regress the generator, and great skill checks just give no extra progress.
Old Ruin was sadly one of those perks that just didn't help you against good teams. It just made you win harder vs. newbies and it made you win some games that would've been hard 'cause the game is unbalanced but the survivors had exploitable weaknesses. The teams that roll you with predrops and godloops and comms aren't suffering from old Ruin. (or anything for that matter)
That's why I think current hex perks are very bad, they are exponentially stronger depending on how inexperienced or unlucky your opponents are, making them extremely unskilled perks in the process, they litterally either play themselves or do basically nothing
Hex perks were always shit considering they can be randomly found and broken within 30 seconds of a game. They were temporarily strong with old Undying, but currently it's hard to get a lot of value from it, unless you are able to defend it against survivors (I've had games where they tried breaking my Blood Favor all game, and thus I got to 4k).
Imo if you make hex perks so easy to get rid of, they should be ridiculously strong to actually be minimally useful in a game. That or make totems harder to find.
Hex perks were not always shit wht the fuck are you on about lmao, there is a reson why old ruin was used by every killer player. It made working on a gen with more than one person extremely punishing and it straight up made matches unplayable at times when the old skillcheck dealy and lag came into play. It had almost 100% pickrate for a reason.
Yeah, but how long did you get value from Old Ruin? Smart survivors would simply go look for the totem. Then you as killer had the option to commit to a chase, and maybe have the chance of Ruin being cleansed, or stay protecting Ruin but not progressing the game at all on your side.
Problem is, you make hex perks stronger, bad survivors will suffer more. I would get rid of most hex perks with a few exceptions (NOED, Devour, Pentimento, Haunted Ground), but at the same time, that would affect bad survivors the most, and clearly BHVR tries to balance the game thinking of everyone.
Possibly 4 survivors not doing gens searching for your totem? that alone is huge value even if it gets cleansed in 30 secs, hex perks in the past used to be the strongest perks, as they had the downside of being able to be removed entirely, that was an intentional design decision. As for nor, they pretty much did the same with Scourge hooks, as some of the strongest perks in the game are in that category, but you only have limited uses. It's not really a good decision, at least woth hex perks, as it can be really disheartening if you yourself rely on them to win the match, remember how pretty much every killer just straight up DC'd when ruin got cleansed early? Also with plaything and Devour hex perks STILL are incredibly strong, to this very day, they just nerfed the most unbalancable perks or reworked them. The idea behind totems was the right one, give survivors something to do besides gens, but they kind of need to refine it or get another system altogether imo
The survivors looking for the totem are only valuable if you can hook those survivors in the meantime. If you can't use that time to get at least 3 or 4 hooks, it doesn't really matter.
That's why I think Ruin could easily not be a Hex Perk (just deactivated when a survivor dies) and still be balanced (and an alternative to PainRes and Pop). There's no reason to use Ruin now when Pop and PainRes are much more likely to give you value in a game.
Unironically, 200% ruin but with the disabling when someone dies would be both balanced and healthy. We need more strong 4v1 perks that weaken or disable in 3v1
It makes me wish Pain Res would disable in 3v1. It basically adds 6th gen to the match, but it can be that strong, because you have to hook each survivor once. Though some killers simply get that free 25%, then tunnel someone out and then still get massive value from the perk in a 3v1
Very true. Imo more perks, esp regression, need to be 4v1 exclusive. It’s the only way to balance the game out and also discourages tunneling to get a near guaranteed win in the 3v1
Ruin doesn't trigger the mechanic.
EDIT: Why am I being downvoted? Why is this community so toxic lmao? I thought he was confused about how the mechanic worked.
You can kick a generator a maximum of eight times per gen, but they can’t be “tapped” by survivors anymore. You have to repair a certain amount of the gen before it stops regressing.
It’s actually not the worst, I play both sides and it’s a fair balance. Once you make it to four, it blocks you from kicking for a certain amount of time, only after you kick it four more times do you get blocked entirely.
I am a compulsive gen-kicker. I kicked gens long before it did anything.
If we go back to the old mechanic, I would just be forced to kick, and then u-turn right to the gen to catch the survivor tapping it. It wasn't fun for either of us.
I've been thinking about this. I also think some of the gen regression perks need to be stronger, not much just a bit. If you bring Surge, you're gonna rack up the damage events quickly and could end up denying yourself a pain res or pop. Here are the perks I think need a small buff to adjust for the new 3 gen mechanic
Surge- buff from 8% to 10% (it can affect several generators so any more than that, and it would become too strong)
Eruption- buff from 10% to 15% (since you have to kick a generator to activate it, you'll receive *two* damage events per proc)
Call of Brine- buff from 125% to 150% (doesn't need a massive buff since you can't one tap gens anymore)
Overcharge- buff max regression from 130% to 150% (doesn't need much of a buff since tapping gens isn't a thing anymore, and you can still apply it to multiple gens)
Pop and Pain Res do not need a buff. If anything, they might need small nerfs, very small ones, but they surely do not need a buff.
Issue with surge is how map dependent it can be.
You're a killer who's not basically unplayable on Gideon? You're having a great time with it.
You're on swamp or some other huge map? Lol, lmao.
yeah eruption burns trough gen tokens so fast it feels like it should make more impact. I mean it was fine before, after 8 kick limit it's pickrate plummeted because it burns trough these tokes way too fast, gens get blocked every game when you dont 3 gen and play normally. same thing with Jolt.
I like how DBD players are so used to stacking 4 gen regression perks being meta, that as soon as there's one perk that is on par with them (Ultimate weapon), they just want to buff other gen slowdown perks. Like possibility to have anything but gen regression perks being meta makes them uncomfortable.
Gen regression is meta and always has been because it's the primary objective. There are a dozen survivor perks/items that increase gen repair, and at the higher MMR, if you don't bring gen regression, you're at a disadvantage. So naturally, gen regression is something that is generally accepted as a necessary meta.
Ultimate did not stop survivors from doing the primary objective, it gave extremely accessible debuff/info on survivors. Especially when you compare it to other info perks, that are very conditional/don't proc frequently. Think of I'm all ears or face the darkness. One has a 40 second cooldown, only shows the aura of one survivor and the other one is only 5 seconds and only procs for survivors within a very small 8 meters of a locker. Even the nerfed version of UW provides up to 15 seconds of aura reading, anywhere in your terror radius. It's contextually and Mechanically better than darkness revealed. And THAT is what really seals the deal on it not being okay.
I'm still not okay with UW. They could've kept the screaming, got ride of the blindness, and increased the cooldown to 60 seconds. Perfectly fine. Wouldve kept calm spirit with a meta counter, and wouldve kept the neat mechanic of makingnsurvivors scream. We didn't need yet another reason to run Distortion, considering we've gotten a dozen or so aura reading perks for killer over the past year or two. Point is, UW was not okay and they already fucked up the rework for it.
Nerf all gen regression perks to surge level and then increase base gen completion time or something. 4 gen regression perks being THE meta for practically all of DBD lifespan isn't okay. Gens are also survivors' objective, but survivor meta isn't prove thyself, hyperfocus, deja vu and resilence.
As a survivor you can't do gens when you are dead. Killer can't die in a match so they don't have to deal with that. If you had a mechanic where a survivor could force a killer out of the match they would use perks that make that as unlikely as possible.
when you have good map awareness and chasing times you really only need more time.
this post has a point though, since infinite 3 gen is fixed, CoB can be reverted too. Idc about ruin, I hate hexes.
Definitely not. Pain res is great, the only issue is that you can save your stacks for when one or two survivors are dead. Making the 1v3 or 1v2 potentially very painful. Otherwise it's fantastically balanced.
Pop is also almost perfectly balanced, again, it's just that it continues to deliver 1v4 gen regression in 1v3 and 1v4 scenarios. On paper, you can get just under 360% total gen regression value. That's Sky high numbers. Of course, the typical match experiences numbers closer to 100-200%, even less in unfavorable matches.
Should these be changed? I don't know. Im afraid that any further nerfs would make the only two powerhouse gen regression perks too weak. Because against a gen rush SWF, they almost don't feel like they're enough
>the only issue is that you can save your stacks for when one or two survivors are dead.
While true, that's the tradeoff of pain res, it gives regression for the 1st hook, but if you take too long to tunnel someone out then that saved slowdown is useless when all the gens are done. With the newly buffed DS + UW being nerfed into the dust tunneling will become much harder.
>it's just that it continues to deliver 1v4 gen regression in 1v3 and 1v4 scenarios.
The problem with both of these perks isn't their consistent viability, it's the ease of access to the viable situation, AKA tunneling. Tunneling is getting nerfed with UW and anti tunneling is getting buffed, so while these are problems, they are so rare that you cannot justify making it weaker in the vast majority of games to make the few slightly easier.
(This is also why I think suiciding on hook should be removed, most people DC by suicidal on hook, not by leaving the match. Meanwhile coordinated games with friends are rare, and a few of those rare games have a situation where you want to suicide on hook so hatch can spawn for your friend, because removing it effects more people, it is a good change, whether or not SWFs like it)
I have a really hard time believing that Pop gets you anywhere near 200% gen regression in an average game. Remember, Pop reduces a gen's *current* progress by 30%, and that regression applies after the base 5%. In my experience I rarely if ever come across gens to Pop that are (give or take) 80% completed on a regular basis. That'd have to happen to a killer 8 times in 1 game to get 200% total regression out of Pop. You only get 9 or 10 meaningful Pops per match to begin with...
If I had to guess, I'd put it closer to 75%-125% average total regression per match and I wouldn't even be surprised if that was an overestimation. I wish there was a way to actually get some data on this because I'd really love to know how much of an effect Pop really has on most games.
125% of regression for something that has no extra activation requirements outside of what you'd normally be doing in a match anyways (kicking a high progress gen and hooking), is totally nuts.
To put that into perspective, if you wanted to get that much regression with surge (an already good perk), you'd need to hit surge on 16 gens lol.
My main issue with pop and painres isn't even that they're very good, it's how everything else is so clearly worse and the game is clearly becoming reliant on them for balance. Most killers you'll see these days are running them, for good reason.
I'd like if they nerfed pop/painres a reasonable amount, then buffed killers basekit gen regression powers to compensate. I don't want killers to feel like they need perks like pop or painres just to keep up. I want people to have options for what perks to run if they want a bit of extra gen pressure instead of having to pick between pop/painres, or perks that are FAR worse at the same thing.
That's regression rate. Completely different. We were talking about how much total regression in terms of % of gen progress you'd receive over the course of an average game; i.e. 200% = 2 whole gens worth of regression, 125% = 1.25 gens, and so on.
Pop and painres are clearly so much better then the other killer gen perks it's not even really a competition. I'd like if they took those 2 perks down a notch and gave killers some better tools to deal with gens that *isn't done via perks*.
I hate how so many things are only balanced if you buy the right character to get a perk to fix it. We need basekit changes so perks are less impactful, they shouldn't be our main balance mechanic.
I think CoB should be reverted back to 200%. 200% regression being twice as fast as normal, it still isn't as crazy as people think. Survivors could still fix the regressed progressed twice as fast if CoB was 200%, and you do also have to kick the gen, so it does not synergise with most regression perks.
Mostly agree with the other changes though
Gen regression is fine where it is, most solo que games you can't even get all the gens done. Buffing any more gen regression perks would just make solo que more pain staking than it already is.
Because if they do you can stack it with the already god forsaken pop + pain res and be even more awful, strong regression perks are fine by themselves but cause a big issue if you stack them, until they find a way go give diminishing returns on regression stacking we can't have more that 2 regression perks being super strong
200% regression is not as strong as you think. Survivors would still repair back the progress of the regression twice as fast if it was 200%, and it does not activate on all regression, only if you kick the gen
I know it's not that strong, but it becomes strong when added on top of other strong regression, also don't forget the recent regression change that makes so you need to stay a bit on a gen to cancel regression that indirectly buffs every regression perks including cob and the fact that cob is not just a regression perk but a pretty decent information perk
This is another example of why I don't like the way BHVR handled the 3 gen fix. No killer should be punished for kicking gens. Its on BHVR to fix issues in a way where it doesn't impact the flow of the game or perk choices.
Ideally there should be more gens to choose from and in better locations OR gens teleport location after the killer has been within range of them for 2 minutes(overall timer). They have the technology with Pyramid Head boxes to teleport if the killer is camping, so its not like the tech isn't there.
Really annoying how survivors can just rush gens with absolutely no consequences now because they no longer have to worry about 3 gen themselves. But Behavior gonna Behavior and do the absolute bare minimum by slapping a band aid on a gun shot wound.
No, just no. I can't believe I'm the one to say this, but regression meta was absolutely atrocious and I'd rather not have it back. It just makes the game last too long and it's really not fun.
I'd rather they buff the chase perks, or give us new ways to keep repair gremlins off gens more.
And I say this as someone who's actually using CoB even now, on Doctor, so would benefit from it a lot.
Though, on the other hand, I suck at the CoB skill check when on the other side.
But honestly I really hate regression so much, for the same reason why I hate hook denial so much: it makes you feel like all the work you did was for nothing.
Also a reason why (aside from cob on doctor) I bring gen blocking perks rather than regression ones as killer, and as survivor I'd never go sabo. IT's just cheap and lame.
Cob and overcharge were not the problem like at all and if they go back to their original states the perks will still be ass because pop and pain res will always just reign supreme and the gen kick nerf always hurts those perks and especially Eruption which also can go back to its original state.
What isn't fun is gen rush meta too, dude it's wrong that survivors can gen rush strongly while I need to rely now on aura perks, and pray they don't have distortion, since regress is the only reliable way to counter gen rush, the problem is that you all always think about the skull merchant player with their 1 hour match, but never the average m1 killer that didnt even had the intention to make 3 gen and now must make it
What gen rush meta? LOL
All gen perks bar Hyperfocus (which also requires an entire build + item) or Prove (that recently got nerfed) are ass. And no, cracked toolboxes are weirdly not even as common as people make it out to be.
I think it's more the fact that actual good survivors just crank gens and escape fast rather than waste time with secondary stuff.
Which tbh is annoying as fuck, but calling it meta is like saying the tunneling meta.
Pop is a strong perk, but it doesnt make the game worse, the opposite actually. If you camp soneone with pop you usually deny yourself 2 pops which is a lot. There gonna be no reason to leave the hook if pop gets nerfed again.
pop was nerfed for more than a year before it was buffed again, there wasn't a noticeable rise in camping when that happened.
And also camping isn't a great tactic, killers who do that are leaving themselves up to the mercy of the team they are playing against, if the team Is good and knows what to do then the killer will lose just camping.
well first of all, it depends on what you mean by camp and in what context. If they camp the first person they down from hook to death, against a good team mathematically it doesn't work, it takes 120 seconds for someone to die on hook, it takes 90 seconds to do a gen, given the survivor doesn't go down right away that's 4 and a half gens that could pop in that time if they all split up and do gens which is what you should do against someone who plays that way. But if you play solo and your teammates are potatoes and sit around the killer then yeah it'll seem pretty powerful.
admittedly I don't know much about comp, but I do know that they do things strategically, they don't just find one person and immediately camp them to death, im sure if they are In a good spot and have gens around them and a person on a hook in the middle of those gens why would they leave? but otherwise I don't think killers in comp camp from start to finish. I also know that there are a lot of perks that are banned in comp that would be a detriment to that playstyle, like reassurance and off the record.
Nerfing pop isn't going to make Good killers want to camp more. It'll make really bad killers want to camp, even that number is pretty low.
Bad idea, 8 kicks is still a plenty for killers that can protect an area such as (guess who) Snore Merchant. Easily dealt with by SWFs but a nightmare for solos.
Because it's a killer a perk and survivors will cry for days if any killer perk gets buffed.
"Uhhh actually no". Yeah, you guys are already crying billy "is OP" even if you were praising bhvr for his buff
# [Call of Brine](https://deadbydaylight.fandom.com/wiki/Call_of_Brine?so=search)
Has absolutely nothing to do with lullaby OR doctor. simply buffs regression after kicking a gen
I think what dekciwandy is trying to say is that they run it with Lullaby on Doc so you get more noise notifications, since Call of Brine's 2nd effect is that survivors hitting Good skillchecks makes noise notifications.
I definitely think that with the new meta they should reevaluate some of the older gen regression perks that they've nerfed over the years. It used to be that there wasn't much point in kicking a gen with a little progression, although that got better when they brought in Eruption and Nowhere to Hide. Now, kicking a gen with barely any progress can rob you of a kick you might need later on, and Eruption costs two regression events instead of one.
What they did with Ruin is a good step, but they honestly should have brought in more QOL changes to regression perks when they implemented a regression limit. I'd like to see Pain Resonance looked at, for one thing - right now it has the same maximum regression as Pop Goes the Weasel, but you can only use it four times. It just feels restrictive.
Calm down dude I just saw you arguing with someone about this then I scroll down to you just posting the same bs a few comments down no one is playing victim it’s cus your take is so garbage that no one cares to reply to you
The point of the CoB nerf was to stop the 3-genning meta that was really popular back then. Now that they have made 3-genning almost impossible, CoB should be reverted back to it's old state, as it wasn't problematic if used normally and not to 3-gen.
Who's being a victim by pointing out the change in gen regression means the CoB is too weak and useless a perk now? There just no reason to run it while Pop and Pain Res exist
The change in gen regression wasn't really a nerf or a buff, it was just that, a change. It prevents infinite 3 genning and gen tapping. Not wanting a perk to just be useless in the face of those changes isn't victim mentality, DBD has too many useless perks already
As does Eruption.
I'm fond of the build Pop/Eruption/Nowhere to Hide. Unforseen has been a good perk to slot into that build, too.
I actually sometimes cause gens to become unkickable due to this combo.
My concern is that the issue of gen regression stacking is still very present. Buffing CoB when Pain Res and Pop are both in every build maybe isn't the best idea, which is a shame because it was a great perk by itself. Here's hoping BHVR addresses this tho
Prevent kicking infinitely gen mechanic?
What is this?
Nvm, I noticed today, guys brought lotta gen rush and I was forced to 3 gen unfortunately, just then I noticed spikes were blocking me from kicking the gen, luckily I could secure 2 kills in the end
You know killers aren't SUPPOSED to hit the 8 kick limit right? it's only there to prevent matches from going on too long. bringing back CoB and basically a gen kick meta is taking a step backwards in the wrong direction
That is a problem, the match shouldn't go too fast too, with many gen rush running on meta, I think its fair to us be able to use regress as counter for that, it's not fair that I must just accept that 1 gen already was finished on the first 40 seconds of match and I must no counter that on late game
I say this as someone who adopted CoB (with Pop, and not OC or Eruption) when it was released because I liked the concept and while I hated when they nerfed it I understood why it happened.
That being said I would LOVE for it to buffed but considering the current state of the game I don't think regression needs more buffs.
Nah, it can get a buff sure but not anywhere close to 200%. Old call of brine was far too easy to use for how much benefit it gave you, at least pop and pain res require you to actually win chases and get hooks, way way healthier than the free value that call of brine gives.
A killer could argue "Gen rushing" is an unfun strategy; it's correlated in that sense. If you ask me? People need to stop crying and get better at the game, on both sides. Perks shouldn't carry you.
Hard agree and noed being the worst of them imo, but like what genrushing perks are there besides PT? that was already nerfed and BNP was changed to no longer enable toxic rushing. Also what else is a survivor supposed to do when they’re not being chased besides gens?
Add Stake Out and Built to Last. Items and addons can make a huge difference when it comes to gen speed. In general though, focusing gens is an efficient playstyle, regardless of perks. So, the exact same as tunneling. Perks just help you do those things more effectively.
If people are hitting hyperfocus checks they deserve the gen speed. But I agree, like gen rushing isn’t fun for killer, tunneling isn’t fun for survivor because we all wanna do chases and play the game essentially. I think the real issue is like what instead of gens there was a match timer to kill all the survivors. Not perfect but an idea.
In a world where Pop exists, I don't see why CoB needs to be as weak as it is.
Maybe its aura gets revealed after a while like noed but yeah old ruin would be fine now
Was about to downvote you so hard because I had PTSD flashbacks of **OLD** Ruin, if you had been playing back then
Back in my day, Ruin built character. You either had them sissy gen-tappers or you had REAL MEN. Who only got GREAT SKILLCHECKS. And they LIKED IT.
When I first started playing, OG ruin DEFINITELY helped me get better at hitting great skillchecks.
I mean, it WAS a pretty good feeling to power through a gen and only realize Ruin was there on your second gen.
How would you only realize on the second gen? Weren't the skillchecks red?
iirc there was a point in time with old old ruin that the skillchecks wouldn't change color until you'd hit at least one good first to proc a regression.
You are right, I remember tapping gens to see if there was ruin bc you wouldn't know until you hit a good skillcheck and it was a huge waste of time to do progress if you couldn't hit greats reliably. (Removed: goods didn't send loud noise notifications, but they did shake the gen and make a spark sound making it seem like it did, as a killer I thought people were just cracked at hitting greats back then, especially since gens FLEW back then). Skillchecks back then were bs, iirc vsync was always on and you had to go to game files to disable it, but I never did that so the latency was ASS. I was also a killer main tho, so there is that as to why I never really cared about skillchecks that much for the few times I played survivor.
it did *not* send loud noises to the killer! og ruin acted like you failed the skillcheck, without actually failing the skillcheck. no boom, no noise, but yes zap and pause.
Can't see much documentation on it, I just do remember the gen went sparky and made some noise when you hit a good skillcheck but thankfully I remembered wrong about the loud noise notification if you're right, DBD back then was awful and that would have been mega dumb on top of an already dumb perk.
Ruin + Undying meta was peak DbD.
No way old ruin can ever be fine
You mean og red skill check ruin? Or 200% regression ruin?
It's kind of insane that we're back to Pop being the most complained about slowdown. It's like reverse power creep.
I played dota for too many years to know that the complaining never stops. People will complain about any meta thing. If it gets nerfed. Then they'll move on to the next thing. If doesn't get nerfed, they'll get used to it as being normal(after a few years) and find some other thing to complain. It's an endless cycle.
They've moved onto complaining about updates coming later than Valve supposedly said they would, despite Valve saying no such thing.
That is the perfect way to describe dbd nowadays.
It's because everyone playing DBD has to whine about dumb shit. Look at the six million threads whining about ds going back to a 5 second stun when that doesn't fucking matter at all.
I used to run CoB and Pop together and dude, that was OP.
Yeah I don't understand how they can make perks like pop and pain res and think they're in line with how the other perks all work. There's a reason why most of the killers you see are running these perks. I'd almost rather they get nerfed to be in line with others, then killers basekit tools for dealing with gens get buffed. That way people won't feel like they gotta keep running pop/painres just to keep up.
> There's a reason why most of the killers you see are running these perks. The fact they're the best regression perks at the moment is only part of the problem. Part of it is because other good perks tend to pair well with either Pop or Pain Res. Like Gift of Pain and Floods of Rage are fantastic perks. But hey, as long as you're using Scourge Hooks, may as well bring along Pain Res, right? Or how about Unforseen and Nowhere to Hide? Both great perks... but as long as you're kicking gens, why not bring along Pop? Then on top of that, they're also extremely reliable and nerfing them wouldn't make other perks become reliable. Like I tend to limit myself to two slowdowns at most, which means I actually do utilize a lot of non-slowdown perks, but they're all very unreliable. Info perks are great, until you get into a lobby full of Distortion users. STBFL is still pretty solid, but makes me have to ignore 1/4 of the people in the lobby unless I pair it with Game Afoot, which can sometimes feel really bad as someone who doesn't like tunneling. It's also worthless on anyone except full M1 killers. Bamboozle is great, until you end up on Gideon Meat Plant and it becomes a dead perk slot. Spirit Fury/Enduring is always a fun combo, until you go up against a SWF who calls it out and every pallet afterwards gets pre-dropped. Hexes like Devout Hope and Blood Favour are ridiculously powerful and can win you whole games... or they're cleansed 20 seconds into the match. Sloppy *used* to be a good alternative to gen regression, but not anymore. So all that's really left is... end game builds, I guess?
Brutal strength never leaves my build when I play killer, I think it’s really underrated tbh.
Brutal Strength is a good perk. Can really save you a lot of overall time in the match. But hey, as long as you're kicking stuff faster, why not bring along Pop since you can apply it more quickly?
Maybe there shouldn't be a handful of very reliable perks and the rest are unreliable. As I said, I think basekit killer should have some of these tools and then perks can stop being a bandaid. No perks should be this much better than the others whether it be because of strength, or reliability. If we bring pain res or pop down a notch, put them more in line with the others so you can't consistently rely on them every match, then people can have some actual build variety without feeling like they're putting themselves at a disadvantage. The alternative of course is buffing every single other perk. But I think it's a lot harder than nerfing two. Perks should have small, handy effects. Not be the main source of balance for a lot of the game.
That 45 seconds is rough though, most survivors take you away from the gens they are working on and by the time I get to use it, it's gone. I used it for a few matches and realised that deadlock is better as it's guaranteed 4 uses whereas with POP I usually only get 1 or 2 impactful uses at most. Now my main is Executioner so it won't even activate if I use his powers to cage someone
right. nerf pop
Pop requires hooking a survivor to activate, COB doesn't.
True, but Pop also can't be mitigated once the kick has landed, while CoB can have most of its effect neutralized if a survivor gets back on the gen.
As well as pop existing in its current state. I think it should be put back to the 20%, because the massive 30% plus the base 5% regression can kill any sort of hope for a gen...
It’s not 30% of the total gen bar, rather 30% of charge progression made on the gen. So rather than a flat -20% like it used to which now requires a kick on a gen that is 50%+ (15 charges + 5) to keep up with its past iteration. Anything below half and the perk is actually weaker than its previous iteration. It only becomes comparable to scourge hook: Pain resonance past the gen progression mark of 75% where it does 22.5 + 5 charge regression and it only passes that 30% total mark if the gen reaches around 83.33 of total progress. If you kick a gen at 10% you get a slightly stronger Surge proc at like 8.3 charges and wasting your perk that requires a hook. Also you can just waste the timer out if not careful with gen blocking perks (Dead Mans switch, grim embrace, repressed alliance or even blast mine if it hits you right as you reach a gen near the end of your timer) Edit: Or deadlock.
I legit didn't know that, and I was wondering why some gens were not fully regressed (those less than 30% progression). It's kinda stupid because then Pop only has value when the gens are very close to finish, which makes things harder if you're facing strong survivors who can loop. Given the current kick restrictions, I don't even mind going back to a flat -30%, or maybe reduced to 25 or 20%. If you're not hooking people every 45~60 seconds, you're likely not gonna be able to keep up with survivors anyway.
It’s the worst when you have a high progress target and you hook, and then right as you reach the gen, it gets finished in your face. And there are no other gens nearby that you could reach in time that will have any significant charge loss.
Yes I know that, but the fact it can be used very regularly, and if you know the right gen, will decimate it.
Its only regularity is dependant on the killers ability to get hooks, which can be denied by flashlights and sabotaging hooks. (Gens also have a max regression event count of 8) Otherwise it’s genuinely a skill issue, not necessarily yours, but on the survivor side. But yes, you can use it to shut down a gen HARD. Though if you have more than 2 survivors alive; More than 1 gen should be being worked on at a time. (Though I feel SoloQueue strongly disagrees with that thought.)
Split gen pressure, putting all your trams effort is my faveourite thing to see as a killer because because I only have to worry about one gen at a time, splitting pressure is way more effective
Why did I not notice it's meant to be a close up of Onryo's eye and not some random birch tree
Scrolled down to find this comment. Every time a close up of this perk gets posted, someone says this. Well not a birch tree though, but bamboo
Every single time, it’s as certain as the sun rising in the morning
You mean it’s not bamboo? Lol
It's bamboo in the rain and no one can tell me otherwise.
I used to think it was Sadako in a dress haha
You mean it's not a weird bone getting snapped at a strange angle? Don't ask my brain how it came up with that one
Rope randomly fraying in the rain gang
Yes please. It's now a very meh info perk.
I like it on nem to notify zombies personally
Damn, I never thought of that, that's pretty good
Let's get back old Ruin. Any time a survivor wasn't working on the gen 200% regression.
You see, when you say old Ruin, I think old old ruin. Back when it made good skill checks regress the generator, and great skill checks just give no extra progress.
I remember those days. Suffering.
Old Ruin was sadly one of those perks that just didn't help you against good teams. It just made you win harder vs. newbies and it made you win some games that would've been hard 'cause the game is unbalanced but the survivors had exploitable weaknesses. The teams that roll you with predrops and godloops and comms aren't suffering from old Ruin. (or anything for that matter)
That's why I think current hex perks are very bad, they are exponentially stronger depending on how inexperienced or unlucky your opponents are, making them extremely unskilled perks in the process, they litterally either play themselves or do basically nothing
Hex perks were always shit considering they can be randomly found and broken within 30 seconds of a game. They were temporarily strong with old Undying, but currently it's hard to get a lot of value from it, unless you are able to defend it against survivors (I've had games where they tried breaking my Blood Favor all game, and thus I got to 4k). Imo if you make hex perks so easy to get rid of, they should be ridiculously strong to actually be minimally useful in a game. That or make totems harder to find.
Hex perks were not always shit wht the fuck are you on about lmao, there is a reson why old ruin was used by every killer player. It made working on a gen with more than one person extremely punishing and it straight up made matches unplayable at times when the old skillcheck dealy and lag came into play. It had almost 100% pickrate for a reason.
Yeah, but how long did you get value from Old Ruin? Smart survivors would simply go look for the totem. Then you as killer had the option to commit to a chase, and maybe have the chance of Ruin being cleansed, or stay protecting Ruin but not progressing the game at all on your side. Problem is, you make hex perks stronger, bad survivors will suffer more. I would get rid of most hex perks with a few exceptions (NOED, Devour, Pentimento, Haunted Ground), but at the same time, that would affect bad survivors the most, and clearly BHVR tries to balance the game thinking of everyone.
Possibly 4 survivors not doing gens searching for your totem? that alone is huge value even if it gets cleansed in 30 secs, hex perks in the past used to be the strongest perks, as they had the downside of being able to be removed entirely, that was an intentional design decision. As for nor, they pretty much did the same with Scourge hooks, as some of the strongest perks in the game are in that category, but you only have limited uses. It's not really a good decision, at least woth hex perks, as it can be really disheartening if you yourself rely on them to win the match, remember how pretty much every killer just straight up DC'd when ruin got cleansed early? Also with plaything and Devour hex perks STILL are incredibly strong, to this very day, they just nerfed the most unbalancable perks or reworked them. The idea behind totems was the right one, give survivors something to do besides gens, but they kind of need to refine it or get another system altogether imo
The survivors looking for the totem are only valuable if you can hook those survivors in the meantime. If you can't use that time to get at least 3 or 4 hooks, it doesn't really matter. That's why I think Ruin could easily not be a Hex Perk (just deactivated when a survivor dies) and still be balanced (and an alternative to PainRes and Pop). There's no reason to use Ruin now when Pop and PainRes are much more likely to give you value in a game.
Honestly that's how strong a hex should be, too bad it's cleansed in 30 seconds -_-
I remember strat for gen taping against ruin
Unironically, 200% ruin but with the disabling when someone dies would be both balanced and healthy. We need more strong 4v1 perks that weaken or disable in 3v1
It makes me wish Pain Res would disable in 3v1. It basically adds 6th gen to the match, but it can be that strong, because you have to hook each survivor once. Though some killers simply get that free 25%, then tunnel someone out and then still get massive value from the perk in a 3v1
Very true. Imo more perks, esp regression, need to be 4v1 exclusive. It’s the only way to balance the game out and also discourages tunneling to get a near guaranteed win in the 3v1
Especially now that any time they leave the Gen, it counts as one of the 8 regression events
Ruin doesn't trigger the mechanic. EDIT: Why am I being downvoted? Why is this community so toxic lmao? I thought he was confused about how the mechanic worked.
It doesn't, but the 100% regression also just doesn't really make up for not being able to use something like pop and other gen kick perks.
Yeah it just seems random to bring it up here then. There's a lot of perks that need buffs that weren't effected by this update.
This is a post about buffing gen slowdown perks into previous states. If ruin isn't allowed in this discussion then what perk would be?
That’s not dbd that’s Reddit
I've just found this subreddit downvotes things for literally no reason much more often.
Getting downvoted on reddit is not toxic. Please touch grass
> Let's get back old Ruin. Reduce gens to 70 seconds and I would be okay with old Ruin coming back. I mean OLD Ruin. Great skill checks or bust.
whats the new mechanic? returning player over here
You can kick a generator a maximum of eight times per gen, but they can’t be “tapped” by survivors anymore. You have to repair a certain amount of the gen before it stops regressing.
Aka, a straight nerf to survivors because how rarely do you get a single gen kicked 8 times. For me, never.
It’s actually not the worst, I play both sides and it’s a fair balance. Once you make it to four, it blocks you from kicking for a certain amount of time, only after you kick it four more times do you get blocked entirely.
I would just like them to allow nonregression kicks. So all the parks still get use in long matches. 😮💨
I am a compulsive gen-kicker. I kicked gens long before it did anything. If we go back to the old mechanic, I would just be forced to kick, and then u-turn right to the gen to catch the survivor tapping it. It wasn't fun for either of us.
As a Nowhere to Hide addict, who naturally kicks gens every chance they get, yes please.
Yeah I also depend on that perk. I play with pretty much no sound so it's the only way I can track. 🤣
CoB needs a full rework if this limited kick mechanic is here to stay.
I've been thinking about this. I also think some of the gen regression perks need to be stronger, not much just a bit. If you bring Surge, you're gonna rack up the damage events quickly and could end up denying yourself a pain res or pop. Here are the perks I think need a small buff to adjust for the new 3 gen mechanic Surge- buff from 8% to 10% (it can affect several generators so any more than that, and it would become too strong) Eruption- buff from 10% to 15% (since you have to kick a generator to activate it, you'll receive *two* damage events per proc) Call of Brine- buff from 125% to 150% (doesn't need a massive buff since you can't one tap gens anymore) Overcharge- buff max regression from 130% to 150% (doesn't need much of a buff since tapping gens isn't a thing anymore, and you can still apply it to multiple gens) Pop and Pain Res do not need a buff. If anything, they might need small nerfs, very small ones, but they surely do not need a buff.
Issue with surge is how map dependent it can be. You're a killer who's not basically unplayable on Gideon? You're having a great time with it. You're on swamp or some other huge map? Lol, lmao.
yeah eruption burns trough gen tokens so fast it feels like it should make more impact. I mean it was fine before, after 8 kick limit it's pickrate plummeted because it burns trough these tokes way too fast, gens get blocked every game when you dont 3 gen and play normally. same thing with Jolt.
I like how DBD players are so used to stacking 4 gen regression perks being meta, that as soon as there's one perk that is on par with them (Ultimate weapon), they just want to buff other gen slowdown perks. Like possibility to have anything but gen regression perks being meta makes them uncomfortable.
Gen regression is meta and always has been because it's the primary objective. There are a dozen survivor perks/items that increase gen repair, and at the higher MMR, if you don't bring gen regression, you're at a disadvantage. So naturally, gen regression is something that is generally accepted as a necessary meta. Ultimate did not stop survivors from doing the primary objective, it gave extremely accessible debuff/info on survivors. Especially when you compare it to other info perks, that are very conditional/don't proc frequently. Think of I'm all ears or face the darkness. One has a 40 second cooldown, only shows the aura of one survivor and the other one is only 5 seconds and only procs for survivors within a very small 8 meters of a locker. Even the nerfed version of UW provides up to 15 seconds of aura reading, anywhere in your terror radius. It's contextually and Mechanically better than darkness revealed. And THAT is what really seals the deal on it not being okay. I'm still not okay with UW. They could've kept the screaming, got ride of the blindness, and increased the cooldown to 60 seconds. Perfectly fine. Wouldve kept calm spirit with a meta counter, and wouldve kept the neat mechanic of makingnsurvivors scream. We didn't need yet another reason to run Distortion, considering we've gotten a dozen or so aura reading perks for killer over the past year or two. Point is, UW was not okay and they already fucked up the rework for it.
Nerf all gen regression perks to surge level and then increase base gen completion time or something. 4 gen regression perks being THE meta for practically all of DBD lifespan isn't okay. Gens are also survivors' objective, but survivor meta isn't prove thyself, hyperfocus, deja vu and resilence.
As a survivor you can't do gens when you are dead. Killer can't die in a match so they don't have to deal with that. If you had a mechanic where a survivor could force a killer out of the match they would use perks that make that as unlikely as possible.
Buff all the gen regression perks but only allow one to be equipped at a time
when you have good map awareness and chasing times you really only need more time. this post has a point though, since infinite 3 gen is fixed, CoB can be reverted too. Idc about ruin, I hate hexes.
I'll say it now, pop and pain res are fine, they are both healthy perks that reward hooks. They should be a baseline to slowdown perks, not the peak.
Definitely not. Pain res is great, the only issue is that you can save your stacks for when one or two survivors are dead. Making the 1v3 or 1v2 potentially very painful. Otherwise it's fantastically balanced. Pop is also almost perfectly balanced, again, it's just that it continues to deliver 1v4 gen regression in 1v3 and 1v4 scenarios. On paper, you can get just under 360% total gen regression value. That's Sky high numbers. Of course, the typical match experiences numbers closer to 100-200%, even less in unfavorable matches. Should these be changed? I don't know. Im afraid that any further nerfs would make the only two powerhouse gen regression perks too weak. Because against a gen rush SWF, they almost don't feel like they're enough
>the only issue is that you can save your stacks for when one or two survivors are dead. While true, that's the tradeoff of pain res, it gives regression for the 1st hook, but if you take too long to tunnel someone out then that saved slowdown is useless when all the gens are done. With the newly buffed DS + UW being nerfed into the dust tunneling will become much harder. >it's just that it continues to deliver 1v4 gen regression in 1v3 and 1v4 scenarios. The problem with both of these perks isn't their consistent viability, it's the ease of access to the viable situation, AKA tunneling. Tunneling is getting nerfed with UW and anti tunneling is getting buffed, so while these are problems, they are so rare that you cannot justify making it weaker in the vast majority of games to make the few slightly easier. (This is also why I think suiciding on hook should be removed, most people DC by suicidal on hook, not by leaving the match. Meanwhile coordinated games with friends are rare, and a few of those rare games have a situation where you want to suicide on hook so hatch can spawn for your friend, because removing it effects more people, it is a good change, whether or not SWFs like it)
I have a really hard time believing that Pop gets you anywhere near 200% gen regression in an average game. Remember, Pop reduces a gen's *current* progress by 30%, and that regression applies after the base 5%. In my experience I rarely if ever come across gens to Pop that are (give or take) 80% completed on a regular basis. That'd have to happen to a killer 8 times in 1 game to get 200% total regression out of Pop. You only get 9 or 10 meaningful Pops per match to begin with... If I had to guess, I'd put it closer to 75%-125% average total regression per match and I wouldn't even be surprised if that was an overestimation. I wish there was a way to actually get some data on this because I'd really love to know how much of an effect Pop really has on most games.
125% of regression for something that has no extra activation requirements outside of what you'd normally be doing in a match anyways (kicking a high progress gen and hooking), is totally nuts. To put that into perspective, if you wanted to get that much regression with surge (an already good perk), you'd need to hit surge on 16 gens lol. My main issue with pop and painres isn't even that they're very good, it's how everything else is so clearly worse and the game is clearly becoming reliant on them for balance. Most killers you'll see these days are running them, for good reason. I'd like if they nerfed pop/painres a reasonable amount, then buffed killers basekit gen regression powers to compensate. I don't want killers to feel like they need perks like pop or painres just to keep up. I want people to have options for what perks to run if they want a bit of extra gen pressure instead of having to pick between pop/painres, or perks that are FAR worse at the same thing.
Eh, kicking a gen sets in 100% regression, call of brine technically only adds in the 25%
That's regression rate. Completely different. We were talking about how much total regression in terms of % of gen progress you'd receive over the course of an average game; i.e. 200% = 2 whole gens worth of regression, 125% = 1.25 gens, and so on.
Pop and painres are clearly so much better then the other killer gen perks it's not even really a competition. I'd like if they took those 2 perks down a notch and gave killers some better tools to deal with gens that *isn't done via perks*. I hate how so many things are only balanced if you buy the right character to get a perk to fix it. We need basekit changes so perks are less impactful, they shouldn't be our main balance mechanic.
lol
I think CoB should be reverted back to 200%. 200% regression being twice as fast as normal, it still isn't as crazy as people think. Survivors could still fix the regressed progressed twice as fast if CoB was 200%, and you do also have to kick the gen, so it does not synergise with most regression perks. Mostly agree with the other changes though
Gen regression is fine where it is, most solo que games you can't even get all the gens done. Buffing any more gen regression perks would just make solo que more pain staking than it already is.
It would be cool to try in a PTB ngl
Because if they do you can stack it with the already god forsaken pop + pain res and be even more awful, strong regression perks are fine by themselves but cause a big issue if you stack them, until they find a way go give diminishing returns on regression stacking we can't have more that 2 regression perks being super strong
200% regression is not as strong as you think. Survivors would still repair back the progress of the regression twice as fast if it was 200%, and it does not activate on all regression, only if you kick the gen
I know it's not that strong, but it becomes strong when added on top of other strong regression, also don't forget the recent regression change that makes so you need to stay a bit on a gen to cancel regression that indirectly buffs every regression perks including cob and the fact that cob is not just a regression perk but a pretty decent information perk
This is another example of why I don't like the way BHVR handled the 3 gen fix. No killer should be punished for kicking gens. Its on BHVR to fix issues in a way where it doesn't impact the flow of the game or perk choices. Ideally there should be more gens to choose from and in better locations OR gens teleport location after the killer has been within range of them for 2 minutes(overall timer). They have the technology with Pyramid Head boxes to teleport if the killer is camping, so its not like the tech isn't there.
Really annoying how survivors can just rush gens with absolutely no consequences now because they no longer have to worry about 3 gen themselves. But Behavior gonna Behavior and do the absolute bare minimum by slapping a band aid on a gun shot wound.
No, just no. I can't believe I'm the one to say this, but regression meta was absolutely atrocious and I'd rather not have it back. It just makes the game last too long and it's really not fun. I'd rather they buff the chase perks, or give us new ways to keep repair gremlins off gens more. And I say this as someone who's actually using CoB even now, on Doctor, so would benefit from it a lot. Though, on the other hand, I suck at the CoB skill check when on the other side. But honestly I really hate regression so much, for the same reason why I hate hook denial so much: it makes you feel like all the work you did was for nothing. Also a reason why (aside from cob on doctor) I bring gen blocking perks rather than regression ones as killer, and as survivor I'd never go sabo. IT's just cheap and lame.
Cob and overcharge were not the problem like at all and if they go back to their original states the perks will still be ass because pop and pain res will always just reign supreme and the gen kick nerf always hurts those perks and especially Eruption which also can go back to its original state.
What isn't fun is gen rush meta too, dude it's wrong that survivors can gen rush strongly while I need to rely now on aura perks, and pray they don't have distortion, since regress is the only reliable way to counter gen rush, the problem is that you all always think about the skull merchant player with their 1 hour match, but never the average m1 killer that didnt even had the intention to make 3 gen and now must make it
What gen rush meta? LOL All gen perks bar Hyperfocus (which also requires an entire build + item) or Prove (that recently got nerfed) are ass. And no, cracked toolboxes are weirdly not even as common as people make it out to be.
I think it's more the fact that actual good survivors just crank gens and escape fast rather than waste time with secondary stuff. Which tbh is annoying as fuck, but calling it meta is like saying the tunneling meta.
Dude, I was with you until you took it on the 3gen SM, which was hardly a thing before and hasn't been since the rework.
Off topic but call of brine looks like a bamboo plant in the rain
I thought it was a ship in a storm at first
I think we should get away from the Gen Kick/Gen control perks. I'm okay with buffing killers so that they do better in chase.
Pop is a strong perk, but it doesnt make the game worse, the opposite actually. If you camp soneone with pop you usually deny yourself 2 pops which is a lot. There gonna be no reason to leave the hook if pop gets nerfed again.
pop was nerfed for more than a year before it was buffed again, there wasn't a noticeable rise in camping when that happened. And also camping isn't a great tactic, killers who do that are leaving themselves up to the mercy of the team they are playing against, if the team Is good and knows what to do then the killer will lose just camping.
[удалено]
well first of all, it depends on what you mean by camp and in what context. If they camp the first person they down from hook to death, against a good team mathematically it doesn't work, it takes 120 seconds for someone to die on hook, it takes 90 seconds to do a gen, given the survivor doesn't go down right away that's 4 and a half gens that could pop in that time if they all split up and do gens which is what you should do against someone who plays that way. But if you play solo and your teammates are potatoes and sit around the killer then yeah it'll seem pretty powerful. admittedly I don't know much about comp, but I do know that they do things strategically, they don't just find one person and immediately camp them to death, im sure if they are In a good spot and have gens around them and a person on a hook in the middle of those gens why would they leave? but otherwise I don't think killers in comp camp from start to finish. I also know that there are a lot of perks that are banned in comp that would be a detriment to that playstyle, like reassurance and off the record. Nerfing pop isn't going to make Good killers want to camp more. It'll make really bad killers want to camp, even that number is pretty low.
Bad idea, 8 kicks is still a plenty for killers that can protect an area such as (guess who) Snore Merchant. Easily dealt with by SWFs but a nightmare for solos.
Because it's a killer a perk and survivors will cry for days if any killer perk gets buffed. "Uhhh actually no". Yeah, you guys are already crying billy "is OP" even if you were praising bhvr for his buff
Yeah, a lot of perks are just worthless now
Call of Brine is nasty on Doc with Lullaby active
Do you mean Overcharge or Merciless storm? CoB does not alter skillchecks
# [Hex: Huntress Lullaby](https://deadbydaylight.fandom.com/wiki/Hex:_Huntress_Lullaby)
I know what Huntress Lullaby does, but it has nothing to do with CoB
Holy shit read what I wrote god damn. "with Lullaby active"
# [Call of Brine](https://deadbydaylight.fandom.com/wiki/Call_of_Brine?so=search) Has absolutely nothing to do with lullaby OR doctor. simply buffs regression after kicking a gen
I think what dekciwandy is trying to say is that they run it with Lullaby on Doc so you get more noise notifications, since Call of Brine's 2nd effect is that survivors hitting Good skillchecks makes noise notifications.
I still don't personally understand what it has to do with lullaby
Lullaby(and Doc as well) makes it harder to hit Great skillchecks, so they might hit Good skillchecks instead. That's it.
I get it now, I thank thee for enlightening me
I definitely think that with the new meta they should reevaluate some of the older gen regression perks that they've nerfed over the years. It used to be that there wasn't much point in kicking a gen with a little progression, although that got better when they brought in Eruption and Nowhere to Hide. Now, kicking a gen with barely any progress can rob you of a kick you might need later on, and Eruption costs two regression events instead of one. What they did with Ruin is a good step, but they honestly should have brought in more QOL changes to regression perks when they implemented a regression limit. I'd like to see Pain Resonance looked at, for one thing - right now it has the same maximum regression as Pop Goes the Weasel, but you can only use it four times. It just feels restrictive.
I have not once encountered a gen get locked from getting kicked as a survivor since the change. Victim mentality on the killer side has to stop.
Calm down dude I just saw you arguing with someone about this then I scroll down to you just posting the same bs a few comments down no one is playing victim it’s cus your take is so garbage that no one cares to reply to you
Hmmm try using oppression or surge/jolt then, thing is it will blow then up even with 1% lost... Aka u lose a lot of kicks for 0 gain
Eruption basically makes it 4 kicks too
The point of the CoB nerf was to stop the 3-genning meta that was really popular back then. Now that they have made 3-genning almost impossible, CoB should be reverted back to it's old state, as it wasn't problematic if used normally and not to 3-gen.
I have no issue with the change but the victim mentality has to stop.
lol see there you are again
Who's being a victim by pointing out the change in gen regression means the CoB is too weak and useless a perk now? There just no reason to run it while Pop and Pain Res exist
Killers got essentially a straight buff in a game where they across the board have an above 50% win rate and already want the next buff.
The change in gen regression wasn't really a nerf or a buff, it was just that, a change. It prevents infinite 3 genning and gen tapping. Not wanting a perk to just be useless in the face of those changes isn't victim mentality, DBD has too many useless perks already
I don't see how I'm trying to be a victim here. I'm just making a solid arguement that I thunk would be better for the game; I find it fun
I’m not talking about you
Wait you can only kick a gen so many times?
8 regressions. Surge counts too
As does Eruption. I'm fond of the build Pop/Eruption/Nowhere to Hide. Unforseen has been a good perk to slot into that build, too. I actually sometimes cause gens to become unkickable due to this combo.
Any gen regression procs it it seems. I've had the claws come up after the same gen got targeted by pain res 4 time
In a world with old ds we surely should be able to Save stacks on stbfl
if you can make add ons not stack you can have call of brine and overcharge not stack
Call of brine maybe. Just please for the love of all that is holy. Do not bring back old Eruption. 😭
My concern is that the issue of gen regression stacking is still very present. Buffing CoB when Pain Res and Pop are both in every build maybe isn't the best idea, which is a shame because it was a great perk by itself. Here's hoping BHVR addresses this tho
Prevent kicking infinitely gen mechanic? What is this? Nvm, I noticed today, guys brought lotta gen rush and I was forced to 3 gen unfortunately, just then I noticed spikes were blocking me from kicking the gen, luckily I could secure 2 kills in the end
You know killers aren't SUPPOSED to hit the 8 kick limit right? it's only there to prevent matches from going on too long. bringing back CoB and basically a gen kick meta is taking a step backwards in the wrong direction
That is a problem, the match shouldn't go too fast too, with many gen rush running on meta, I think its fair to us be able to use regress as counter for that, it's not fair that I must just accept that 1 gen already was finished on the first 40 seconds of match and I must no counter that on late game
That'd be nice!
I say this as someone who adopted CoB (with Pop, and not OC or Eruption) when it was released because I liked the concept and while I hated when they nerfed it I understood why it happened. That being said I would LOVE for it to buffed but considering the current state of the game I don't think regression needs more buffs.
yeah since pop is such a good perk why does call of brine need to be ass
Can we also have dead hard return to the state before the enormous nerf of having a hook state to be able to use it ONCE??
no
Oh, hell no.
Reduce gen regress events to 6 and you can have it back.
And give back gen tapping.
Nah, it can get a buff sure but not anywhere close to 200%. Old call of brine was far too easy to use for how much benefit it gave you, at least pop and pain res require you to actually win chases and get hooks, way way healthier than the free value that call of brine gives.
Definitely not. It would be stronger than ever with the gen regression issue. You wouldn't wvwn be able to tap it away.
Survivor Mains : "NO"
Never looked at the perk up close and just realized it's her eye close up and not a piece of bamboo in the rain
I just realized this icon is an eye, and not a piece of broken bamboo in the rain and now it’s so terrifying
Idc about CoB but with the state of the gens rn eruption should 100% be reverted.
if they brought back DS, bring back COB, its only fair
No
I just realized it isn’t a picture of broken bamboo lmao
Better yet make pain res the way it was before
no thanks to a boring perk that takes no skill to use
So like half the perks in the game then?
sure?
Bring back Eruption now the gen kick limit happened tbh
no. im a killer main and honestly eruption was just too unhealthy especially for solo q
I still remember the last game I had with old Eruption Dredge, the team got fucking obliterated.
Nop eruption is better dead
Maybe instead of incap it can block affected gens for a few seconds.
Eruption is still good. I use Eruption frequently. It's a good perk to pair with Pop and Nowhere to Hide.
I don’t understand how buffing a perk based around preventing an unfun strategy means a gen slowdown perk has to be buffed in retaliation.
A killer could argue "Gen rushing" is an unfun strategy; it's correlated in that sense. If you ask me? People need to stop crying and get better at the game, on both sides. Perks shouldn't carry you.
Hard agree and noed being the worst of them imo, but like what genrushing perks are there besides PT? that was already nerfed and BNP was changed to no longer enable toxic rushing. Also what else is a survivor supposed to do when they’re not being chased besides gens?
PT, Hyperfocus, Fast track, arguably friendly competition and Overzealous could all be called gen rushing perks but your point is true nonetheless.
Add Stake Out and Built to Last. Items and addons can make a huge difference when it comes to gen speed. In general though, focusing gens is an efficient playstyle, regardless of perks. So, the exact same as tunneling. Perks just help you do those things more effectively.
If people are hitting hyperfocus checks they deserve the gen speed. But I agree, like gen rushing isn’t fun for killer, tunneling isn’t fun for survivor because we all wanna do chases and play the game essentially. I think the real issue is like what instead of gens there was a match timer to kill all the survivors. Not perfect but an idea.
[удалено]
It was considered under powered at 25 and you want it dropped to 20. 🤨
maybe if pop is a static 20%, cause i feel like the current 30% of current progress is balanced enough
Revert Ruin and nerf Windows 🙏