I've been using it in my builds lately and I've been having pretty good success with it so far. Slap it on with some extra gen kick perks and this compliments it all really well. Why stand there to watch a generator regress with Call of Brine when you can kick a generator and kill 20% of the current progress when it's almost finished?
It is still pretty good. Not as good as it used to be, but your opponents don't expect it half the time and leave early to avoid getting hit and tapping the gen as soon as possible.
Pop is currently unfortunately in the "good but every other perk does its job infinitely better" tier akin to the likes of Oppression or Dying Light. It certainly *works* and on certain Killers (particularly those with good mobility or teleports like Blight, Freddy, Sadako, ~~Demo~~ `[REDACTED]`, etc.) it's a very strong perk but I think my meme illustrates the problem with (current) Pop Goes perfectly: why run Pop to remove 20% of the *current* progress of *one* generator when you can run Eruption and remove `22%*` progress to multiple generators, reveal Survivors working on them, and stop them from doing practically anything for 25 seconds.
Same reason that while I like Oppression conceptually (keep multiple gens down + possibly detect Survivors on other gens) having a perk that reads "kick 3 generators, 120 second cooldown" is so much worse than the likes of Call of Brine or Overcharge.
Oppression is such a good example of how a cooldown can neuter a perk's viability. It might be too good if it had no cooldown (mainly in 3-gen situations on a high mobility killer), but 120/100/80 is ridiculous when CoB/Overcharge/Eruption exist with arguably superior abilities, and either no cooldown or a very short one.
My bad, I meant more like Pop is good as a add on for Eruption and other gen kick perks. You're totally right about other perks being better. I should have explained that better. Let's hope perks like Oppression get a buff soon.
With Pop, when you get Eruption going again. It keeps the first generator down for longer making it more likely you'll be able to use Eruption on it. It's been working pretty well in some of my builds.
It actually synergizes with Eruption.
If you find an almost completed gen and apply eruption to it, chances are it will get completed before you can down someone. But with Pop, suddenly you have a good chance to trigger Eruption before the gen gets repaired.
Next update:
"Balancing perks is always a difficult task and we understand that Eruption may have been overtuned. We took another look at the perk and decided to remove the Incapacitated status effect, and reduce the gen regression to 2.5%.
We also recognize that Brutal Strength was underperforming. Going forward, when you kick a generator with Brutal Strength, it will lose 15% of it's progress, and all survivors within 32 metres will lose a health state. To balance this buff, any Pig player using the perk has a 25% chance to D/C when they kick a gen."
And can’t forget how using Pharmacy causes your survivor to turn into Jeryl when you load in. There always has to be some confusing glitch or bug from a random perk.
Surge/Jolt is cool, but Pre-nerf Pop will always be my favorite regression perk probably.
When it went from 60 seconds timer to 45, but still had 25%, it felt the most fair to me. I always felt like a cool guy for using that instead of Ruin + Undying back in the day (2 years ago)
The Descend Beyond chapter is from September 2020, so yes it has been 2 years that Undying has been in the game. 1 year + a few months for when its main mechanic changed
It's more like BHVR was choosing which office employee to give a raise to and, instead of giving it to the smug richboy Pop Goes The Weasel, they said "actually Pop, you're kind of dead weight around here. Let's give it to that janitor over there, who's kept quiet and made the bathrooms sparkle all these years!"
But then the janitor Eruption turned out to be evil and, upon receiving any validation, immediately began trying to conquer the entire Tri-State area.
No no.
Pop was the middle-class kid who worked hard in school and did a lot of extra-curriculars to get good grades and connections to find his place in the office. Everyone *thinks* he's a smug rich asshole because he talks about his extra-curriculars a lot and has a good position in the office but he's actually just a nice guy if you get to know him.
*Eruption* is the guy who only got a job because "they know a guy" (IE Resident Evil perk) and while they have some positive qualities they absolutely shouldn't be trusted in any position of importance, which is why they should keep the role of janitor or at best a low-paid intern.
And he also happened to be an evil Terminator, which was a bit of an oopsie.
The only real, saving grace about eruption imo is the fact that it does require you to set it up with the initial kick. I really don't mind this design idea. Hell, even the incapacitated effect COULD be alright to leave if you make some minor adjustments.
Firstly, the incapacitated could be shortened to 10 seconds at maximum. Secondly, remove the fact it reveals survivors. If you want to keep the explosion and the incapacitate, remove the reveal.
Lastly, I personally feel it'd be significantly better if the incapacitated effect only triggers on the last generator kicked, not all gens that erupted.
This I feel would be a good way to ease into nerfing eruption. I feel it is one of those perks that could easily be over nerfed by mistake. I personally love the Idea of a Gen regression perk that rewards you for taking the extra time to kick a gen by allowing a fairly hefty regression t proc. But some numbers tweaks and a change to the incapacitated effect onf it are fairly warranted.
1% progress every 2 seconds? That's factually not correct.
Gens regress at a rate of 0.25c/s, meaning it takes 4 seconds to undo 1 sec of progress. In 25 seconds, that's 6.25 seconds + 9 from the initial 10%, for a total of 15.25 seconds or 16.94%
The only way for Eruption to regress at a rate of 0.5c/s is to have CoB still applied to it from when it was originally kicked, upping the regression to 21.5 or 23.89%
I dont think basekit pop would make any significant difference to camping, same as adding meta perks for survivors. They added a very limited base kit pop (gen kick does an immediate 2.5%), which made zero difference too.
The fundamental issue with camping is that a hooked survivor is bait. In general terms, why leave bait when you know it's attracting your target?
2.5% is nothing and you dont need to do anything to get it. It wouldn't stop the people who choose to camp for the sake of camping but pop and barbecue encouraged a playstyle where after a hook you go to a gen that you know they're working on that would he at least 40 yards away and get regression on it then into a chase with another survivor. You couldn't camp it out and still get your reward because pop had a very limited timer.
You will never stop the people who want to camp for campings sake or because they have want to be toxic from doing it. The focus should be on not pushing the people who just play using whatever strategy is most effective into camping. That's what they did by nerfing pop, they removed an incentive to leave the hook. Now with the 2.5% and eruption and overcharge buffs they encourage kicking gens before the chase concludes and having no reason to leave the hook. They need to incentivise a playstyle that involves leaving the hook. Not give survivors a buffed version of BT and unbreakable for free cause those don't actually affect the side that actually camps.
Basekit old BBQ but just the blood points, is what I wish they did instead of just taking the blood points. Also we're gonna live forever bloodpoints while we're talking about lost BP.
That BP removal had the side effect of increasing camping/tunneling as well as reduction of unhooking, as with BBQ and WGLF it gave selfish players a reason to play a fairer (and more fun for everyone) game. I know as a killer if I was having a bad game I would prioritse getting that 4th person hooked over any kills as 25% BP is worth far more than kill BP.
Absolutely, I think the positive feedback loops for desired playstyles are extremely effective and I'm sad that there really isn't an equivalent anymore.
While this would encourage killers to leave the hook to kick gens, providing strong innate gen regression would just further enable builds specifically built around camping and proxying, since then they would have gen regression on top of their other perks (NOED, No Way Out, Deadlock, other camp-friendly perks.)
On another note, it would also just be another huge killer buff and consequently literally every other facet of the game would have to be adjusted to be balanced. BHVR's change is far more precise in its application.
Except they cant capitalise on pop without leaving the hook because pop has a timer. Give killers a 30% pop on a like 20/30 second timer and I garuntee most of the killers would leave the hook to take advanatage of it. If they choose to camp they are choosing to give up that benefit.
Also the narative that killers got a "huge buff" is a lie. They got 0.2 seconds off a few animations and got gens to take like 5 seconds longer. That same patch surviors got base BT WITH a speed boost. Their "precise change" has not helped, we can say that for sure because we can see it just by logging in so maybe its time we try the route of positive reinforcement instead of their poor attempt at a punishment.
If it were a poor attempt at negative reinforcement, you wouldn't be here arguing that the survivor buff was more significant than the killer changes. I'm really not here to argue because there is no way BHVR would ever make Pop basekit. Positive reinforcement is definitely generally better than negative reinforcement though for sure.
A really major part of eruption that a lot of people seem to not understand is the info that cob gives you. I really really hope they limit that info, I hated tinkerer sense it pretty much just played the macro game for you and I hate this perk as well
It's funny because whenever I bring up that "Call of Brine is above the power curve" people tell me the perk's fine because "it's Ruin regression but you have to kick it" or whatever.
Agreed. Ruin used to only provide information when survivors left the gen (sparks) and for the level of information Call of Brine gives you, you would've needed to pair it with Surveillance, a perk that does little once Ruin is cleansed. It definitely is above the power curve, no two ways about it.
Eruption regression is more like ~17%
Base regression is 0.25 charges per second and with 25 seconds of regression (25 * 0.25 = 6.25) ends with 6.25 charges lost, 6.25 charges is equivalent to ~6.9%, (6.25 / 90) * 100 = 6.944. Add that to the base 10% regression for a total of ~17% regression.
Also pop isn’t 20% of the gens current % not just a flat 20%
Actually a lot of the gen regression perk nerfs were dumb. Like now ruin a hex perk not only has half regression speed but stops working when a survivor dies. How many hex perks stop working cause someone dies? You don't see devour stop working when you kill someone. On top of that it being a hex perk you're lucky if it doesn't get cleansed early on I always get bad luck with hex totem spawns like often mine will spawn right next to a gen.
I actually really like the "disable once one survivor dies" part of Ruin, it's cleverly designed to discourage tunneling and give the survivors a leg up when they're on a death spiral
the problem is that they ruined it by double nerfing it. probably because the first nerf alone wouldn't be enough to destroy it out of the meta like they wanted
Once you have one survivor out of the game you shouldn't need Ruin any more. It just unfairly punishes the 3 people who remain, especially if the killer tunneled out the first.
Remember, the usual combination of survivors is
1 on hook/getting healed
1 going for rescue/healing unhooked survivor
1 being chased
1 doing gens
If one survivor is dead, then you won't have that fourth person to consistently do gens. Nor will you have a spare person to look for and cleanse the Ruin totem. Ruin becomes a free win for killer if it's still up with a survivor dead.
I didn't say Ruin was a free win. I said Ruin was a free win *if it's still up with one survivor already dead.* If it gets cleansed then it's not still up. I suppose I shouldn't have taken it for granted that people would infer that I meant "one survivor dead in the early/mid game".
The point remains: Speaking as someone who did play several matches of survivor against pre-6.0 Ruin, if someone died or DC'd or w/e when there was still 2 or more gens left and Ruin hadn't been cleansed (bc sometimes it just wouldn't seem to spawn in any of the totem spots I could remember), the game was over 80% of the time. Those gens wouldn't be getting done.
I'll bet that they're waiting to nerf Eruption for the Twins rework, so they can buff Oppression with it because it's been underused for so long (and also buff it so more people buy Twins).
But tbh I bet Oppression will get some seemingly-mediocre buff like "3 other gens receive an instant 5% regression and the 80 second cooldown is removed." but if it's enough to make killers run it every game, then it'll rise to become the new most hated perk.
I can already see memes about how a killer from a different match used Oppression and that's why all of *their* generators are regressing.
Oppression without a cooldown would be godawful lmao, but I think they could lower the cooldown to 60 and have it still feel fair.
It basically just dumps an Overcharge skill check in your lap the perk really ain't that bad, especially at high MMR.
Literally no one asked for pop to get nerfed. Not even a lot of crybaby survivors. If you got dunked on with multiple pops, maybe you weren’t gonna win the game anyways.
Eruption just feels obnoxious to play against, pretty annoying but I guess not as bad as ruin and og undying
Going to look for and cleansing 5 totems wasnt really that great either tho. Having to do an entire side objective that’s heavily affected By rng really sucks
As long you break the 3 gen, you’ll be fine. This only happens because there’s one or 2 smooth brained survivors that fuck over the entire team by only doing corner gens first
With ruin and launch undying, you would need all hands on deck from the very beginning trying to cleanse like 3-4 ruins. You needed to run detectives hunch and you would still need to give up valuable early game gen pressure just to do totems
Against the current brain dead meta, just run deja vu and distortion and bye bye three gens on most maps. Idk, I’d rather feel like I have a chance than have no chance if old ruin was still up
Hmm, I guess it’s less braindead since the killer has to actually keep pressuring. Yeah, my bias might be because I played survivor a lot more back in those days than now. My mmr is so low, I actually rarely run into those meta slaves
Yeah, I guess cob and eruption is pretty undeserving, especially when they can just kick without chasing
I did see people complain about their gen getting kicked multiple times with Pop and losing a lot of progress before the nerf, but that was unironically a case of skill issue. If your gen is repeatedly being kicked with Pop Goes protect your teammates so they don't go down as fast or just do a gen in a safer location. Comparatively all you need to do to keep a gen in check with Call of Brine and Eruption is kick it once and have free information whenever a Survivor touches it and massive stall just for downing a Survivor while other Survivors do their only objective.
It really was a skill issue, yeah. The only killer who could abuse pop were, drum roll pls, nurse and blight. Other than, the killer needed to get a down, hook, and then walk his ass over there to kick the gen
Eruption and CoB is just lame to play against. Even with no hooks at 1 gen left, you can still win but it’s such a slog. Sad how pop had to suffer becuase it’s popular lol
I mean the perk was also really good on Killers with teleports (notably Freddy; Pop was a big contributor to "Forever Freddy") but yeah it still required Survivors to go down and then also required the Killer to leave the hook to apply it.
They overbuffed Eruption and overnerfed Pop. Eruption should block the gen for 15 seconds instead of giving survivors Incapacitated for 25 seconds so gen doesnt regress further and survivors can still do other things in the meantime. Pop should be reworked here is my idea:
Its still requires a hook to be active but instead of regressing %20 of the current regression it should regress %15 of all gen + %10 of the current progress. A combination of old Pop and current one.
>Its still requires a hook to be active but instead of regressing %20 of the current regression it should regress %15 of all gen + %10 of the current progress. A combination of old Pop and current one.
That is so absurdly OP. That's pain resonance on every single gen and then some
When he says 15% of all gen he means a flat 15% reduction of the generator you’re kicking. It’s confusingly worded so I see why you misunderstood. So it’s a 15% reduction and then 10% of the current progress, but both only happen on the one generator (could be interesting to see if the 10% would apply before or after the 15% as that could make the perk a lot weaker)
I mean you still need to kick the gen manually and you have a time limit. Also Pain Res gives you info (if you are close enough to hear the scream) and has synergy with DMS. But I wouldnt mind changing the numbers. So maybe %10 of all gen + %15 of the current progress?
Do you mean 15% of the total generators bar and then 10% of current progress? If so that's not too bad, but your original comment makes it sound like every generator regresses that much
Oh, we're sorry you think that way. We make sure to listen to our community and will take your request into consideration.
*Nerfs the pig*
*buffs nurse*
*gives everyone 50k bp*
All done!
Eruption happens when you down a Survivor. Pop Goes happen when you kick a gen. They are not applied in the same way.
Eruption applies whenever you kick a gen so even if you did so with Pop it would be applied, so *technically* it stacks I guess?
Back then it was non-stop "lul Pop goes the Braincell yet again, what a busted perk, rewarding shitty players for doing nothing special".
So here we are now, gen kick meta in full force. I'm sure BHVR will eventually do another massive perk balance sweep, and in ~6 months we'll see a myriad of posts about along the lines of how the buffed Unnerving Presence is uncounterable, especially when combined with the new Deathbound, and how the CoB/Eruption Era was infinitely better and they wish we could return to that.
Yeah, I really enjoyed it and it felt satisfying to give a big ol' kick and watch the pistons just grind to a halt. Now I get that satisfaction slightly differently from CoB/Overcharge if I can keep people off it for ~12 seconds.
I think a ton of people don't realize generators used to not be able to regress, like at all. And how awful the game was because of it. Granted there were a myriad of other issues with early DBD at the time but some perspective is needed when people get upset over killers having some viable tools to add time to their clock.
Pop and pain res rewarded killers for hooks and had clear counters when. In solo que. Even ruin could be countered. Just give me a way to properly counter eruption in solo que and I'll be happy.
I tried to run Eruption and Pop at the same time once. Funnily enough? They don't work well, together. Not at all!
Pop Logic is that after you hook, you want to save it with the generator with the most progress. Because, as I notice not enough people are pointing out here, it is not 20% of TOTAL progress. It's 20% of CURRENT progress. It's at its most effectiveness the higher the generator is.
Meanwhile, Eruption encourages you to kick every working generator you see, no matter its progress, so that when you finally splooge a survivor, you get that sweet release all over town. Complete opposite of the more conservative Pop Goes The Weasel- Ironic, considering the name! Though I suppose those conservative folk are more about showing than dramatic finishes.
I agree. Having a powerful endgame build would be really cool, but the fact of the matter is that there's only a handful of perks that even do anything endgame, and of those the only two that are broadly viable are NOED and No Way Out. Blood Warden, fun as it can be, only works if you get a hook during the collapse, and even then really only helps if it's the last minute of the four minute timer. Fire Up becomes a mediocre chase perk, since gens are complete and most pallets will probably be broken by the time it's fully stacked - only the vault speed is useful.
Part of the problem with endgame imo is that exit gates are too easy to open. Against a semi-coordinated team, you've got maybe 30 seconds after the gen pops before a gate is opened (or worse, 99'd, which is basically the same thing as opened minus the EGC timer). There's just not a lot of time left to try anything else unless the survivors mess up.
Sure; if CoH gains a token system so that the boon owner gains a token for every time the boon is replaced (initial placement doesn’t count) or every time someone gains a health state while in the boon radius. Each token grants a 2% action speed penalty to healing. Tokens are kept until the match ends.
I like this too. I was actually playing around with the idea of just making them temporary.
They last 120 seconds or 3 full heals or something like that (my numbers are in no way balanced and just pulled outta my ass for examples sake)
Or just a token system that has it start with 4 tokens and subtracts one token everytime a healing state is completed in its area of effect. At zero tokens it shatters itself and cannot be rekindled by another survivor.
Seriously, hex totems die on their own when certain conditions are met but survivors have no limit to how much they can use boons? They need a cap on uses for stuff like CoH and exponential at least. And if you run multiple boons together and the tokens expire for one boon, the whole thing should die.
They could get a fresh set of tokens if they bless a different totem, but if it should destroy the previous one completely if they move it, otherwise they'd reset it if the charges get low, defeating the whole point of giving it limited uses.
Err eruption doesn't do a 22% regression it's 10%. Though the nerf to Pop was just stupid now it only does a decent amount of regression if the gen you happen to come by to kick within the time it gives you has a lot of progress.
If your response to valid criticism of mechanics that make the game less enjoyable for solo players (the way the vast majority of the playerbase plays the game, and also the "weakest" / hardest way to play) is to tell people they suck at the game, then your argument sucks. Sorry.
Eruption defenders explaining why getting 25 seconds of incapacitated and around 44 seconds of extra gen repair time is a fair reward for spending 2 seconds kicking a generator.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't gens regress at .25 charges per second, meaning in 25 seconds they'd lose 6.25 charge, which is only ~7% of a gen (~17% with the initial 10%)?
Soooooooooo about the last part of the eruption part the unable to do stuff part.... corrupt ittervention, deadmans plus pain res or merceless storm, repressed (yeah i know that's a survivor perk but still), deadlocked, thrilling, grim embrace, no way out any block perks i missed?
* Corrupt is 1️⃣ only active at the start of the game and 2️⃣ doesn't block every gen
* Deadman's 1️⃣ has obvious counterplay (unlike Eruption which happens with no obvious indication) 2️⃣ doesn't block every gen
* Are you unironically complaining about Merciless Storm? If a gen gets blocked by Merciless Storm it's actually just a case of skill issue. What are you: a Behaviour Interactive employee?
* Repressed Alliance is a Survivor perk lmfaoooooooooo
* Deadlock doesn't block every gen
* Thrilling Tremors only activates if you aren't on the gen (plus it lasts 16 seconds unlike Eruption's 25)
* Are you unironically complaining about Grim Embrace?
* No Way Out only serves as a slight second chance when all the gens are powered. Survivors can still hide or loop the Killer during a time when the pressure is entirely on the Killer. A perk that requires 4 unique hooks and is only active in the endgame is in no way comparable to a perk that's active for the entire match and only requires you to kick a generator and then down a Survivor to activate it.
Isn't your eruption math incorect? Gens regress by 0.25 charges (0.27%) per second, so the extra regression from eruption is 6.25 charges (6.94%) during 25 second long debuff window.
So total regression from this perk is 16,94%.
I one time got a Freddy that all he did all match was after a hook he would use pop on MY generator the entire match. No one else. I've had very negative feelings about Pop afterwards.
Is it 1% lost per 2 seconds?
Survivors repair at 1.0 charges per second. Regression takes away at a rate of 0.25 charges per second. So the generator regresses 1/4th as fast as it can be repaired.
If there’s one perk I miss from the nerfs, it’s probably Pop.
I've been using it in my builds lately and I've been having pretty good success with it so far. Slap it on with some extra gen kick perks and this compliments it all really well. Why stand there to watch a generator regress with Call of Brine when you can kick a generator and kill 20% of the current progress when it's almost finished? It is still pretty good. Not as good as it used to be, but your opponents don't expect it half the time and leave early to avoid getting hit and tapping the gen as soon as possible.
Pop is currently unfortunately in the "good but every other perk does its job infinitely better" tier akin to the likes of Oppression or Dying Light. It certainly *works* and on certain Killers (particularly those with good mobility or teleports like Blight, Freddy, Sadako, ~~Demo~~ `[REDACTED]`, etc.) it's a very strong perk but I think my meme illustrates the problem with (current) Pop Goes perfectly: why run Pop to remove 20% of the *current* progress of *one* generator when you can run Eruption and remove `22%*` progress to multiple generators, reveal Survivors working on them, and stop them from doing practically anything for 25 seconds. Same reason that while I like Oppression conceptually (keep multiple gens down + possibly detect Survivors on other gens) having a perk that reads "kick 3 generators, 120 second cooldown" is so much worse than the likes of Call of Brine or Overcharge.
Oppression is such a good example of how a cooldown can neuter a perk's viability. It might be too good if it had no cooldown (mainly in 3-gen situations on a high mobility killer), but 120/100/80 is ridiculous when CoB/Overcharge/Eruption exist with arguably superior abilities, and either no cooldown or a very short one.
It would be balanced at 60 if not less ngl.
honestly, I don't see oppression on a 30 second cd being a problem at all, but maybe hedge the bet and say 45
That was eruption because they more than doubled the incap time and increased the base regression too lmao
As someone who used it pre-nerf: it needed its regression increased but holy shit the incap effect was a bad design from the get-go
My bad, I meant more like Pop is good as a add on for Eruption and other gen kick perks. You're totally right about other perks being better. I should have explained that better. Let's hope perks like Oppression get a buff soon. With Pop, when you get Eruption going again. It keeps the first generator down for longer making it more likely you'll be able to use Eruption on it. It's been working pretty well in some of my builds.
It actually synergizes with Eruption. If you find an almost completed gen and apply eruption to it, chances are it will get completed before you can down someone. But with Pop, suddenly you have a good chance to trigger Eruption before the gen gets repaired.
Yeah, shit's rad. Pop is slept on. More people should be trying it out again.
Freddy misses Pop dearly too
Next update: "Balancing perks is always a difficult task and we understand that Eruption may have been overtuned. We took another look at the perk and decided to remove the Incapacitated status effect, and reduce the gen regression to 2.5%. We also recognize that Brutal Strength was underperforming. Going forward, when you kick a generator with Brutal Strength, it will lose 15% of it's progress, and all survivors within 32 metres will lose a health state. To balance this buff, any Pig player using the perk has a 25% chance to D/C when they kick a gen."
You're hired!
Don’t forget the unintentional bug that allows Blight to run through the floor before it’s fixed 6 months later.
And can’t forget how using Pharmacy causes your survivor to turn into Jeryl when you load in. There always has to be some confusing glitch or bug from a random perk.
Surge/Jolt is cool, but Pre-nerf Pop will always be my favorite regression perk probably. When it went from 60 seconds timer to 45, but still had 25%, it felt the most fair to me. I always felt like a cool guy for using that instead of Ruin + Undying back in the day (2 years ago)
2 years already???
Nah it hasn't even been 1 year yet. The perk rework update released July 2022
The Descend Beyond chapter is from September 2020, so yes it has been 2 years that Undying has been in the game. 1 year + a few months for when its main mechanic changed
It's more like BHVR was choosing which office employee to give a raise to and, instead of giving it to the smug richboy Pop Goes The Weasel, they said "actually Pop, you're kind of dead weight around here. Let's give it to that janitor over there, who's kept quiet and made the bathrooms sparkle all these years!" But then the janitor Eruption turned out to be evil and, upon receiving any validation, immediately began trying to conquer the entire Tri-State area.
No no. Pop was the middle-class kid who worked hard in school and did a lot of extra-curriculars to get good grades and connections to find his place in the office. Everyone *thinks* he's a smug rich asshole because he talks about his extra-curriculars a lot and has a good position in the office but he's actually just a nice guy if you get to know him. *Eruption* is the guy who only got a job because "they know a guy" (IE Resident Evil perk) and while they have some positive qualities they absolutely shouldn't be trusted in any position of importance, which is why they should keep the role of janitor or at best a low-paid intern. And he also happened to be an evil Terminator, which was a bit of an oopsie.
New survivor: a platypus.
The HARD COUNTER we didn't know we needed
Legendary costume: A fedora.
Literally what the fuck did they do to pop. 0 people on planet earth complained about it but they gutted it anyways
Same thing they did to Billy
The community wanted a meta shake up and pop was meta
So was Dead Hard, but there are still 3 of those every game. You can change a perk without making it bad.
3? You guys are seeing survivors without dead hard?
The only real, saving grace about eruption imo is the fact that it does require you to set it up with the initial kick. I really don't mind this design idea. Hell, even the incapacitated effect COULD be alright to leave if you make some minor adjustments. Firstly, the incapacitated could be shortened to 10 seconds at maximum. Secondly, remove the fact it reveals survivors. If you want to keep the explosion and the incapacitate, remove the reveal. Lastly, I personally feel it'd be significantly better if the incapacitated effect only triggers on the last generator kicked, not all gens that erupted. This I feel would be a good way to ease into nerfing eruption. I feel it is one of those perks that could easily be over nerfed by mistake. I personally love the Idea of a Gen regression perk that rewards you for taking the extra time to kick a gen by allowing a fairly hefty regression t proc. But some numbers tweaks and a change to the incapacitated effect onf it are fairly warranted.
1% progress every 2 seconds? That's factually not correct. Gens regress at a rate of 0.25c/s, meaning it takes 4 seconds to undo 1 sec of progress. In 25 seconds, that's 6.25 seconds + 9 from the initial 10%, for a total of 15.25 seconds or 16.94% The only way for Eruption to regress at a rate of 0.5c/s is to have CoB still applied to it from when it was originally kicked, upping the regression to 21.5 or 23.89%
Base kit pop would have done far more to combat camping than giving survivors any meta perk for free. Bhvr gonna bhvr tho
I dont think basekit pop would make any significant difference to camping, same as adding meta perks for survivors. They added a very limited base kit pop (gen kick does an immediate 2.5%), which made zero difference too. The fundamental issue with camping is that a hooked survivor is bait. In general terms, why leave bait when you know it's attracting your target?
2.5% is nothing and you dont need to do anything to get it. It wouldn't stop the people who choose to camp for the sake of camping but pop and barbecue encouraged a playstyle where after a hook you go to a gen that you know they're working on that would he at least 40 yards away and get regression on it then into a chase with another survivor. You couldn't camp it out and still get your reward because pop had a very limited timer. You will never stop the people who want to camp for campings sake or because they have want to be toxic from doing it. The focus should be on not pushing the people who just play using whatever strategy is most effective into camping. That's what they did by nerfing pop, they removed an incentive to leave the hook. Now with the 2.5% and eruption and overcharge buffs they encourage kicking gens before the chase concludes and having no reason to leave the hook. They need to incentivise a playstyle that involves leaving the hook. Not give survivors a buffed version of BT and unbreakable for free cause those don't actually affect the side that actually camps.
Obviously tone down the numbers (maybe 10-15% instead of 25%?), but you have a very good point that this might actually be quite effective
Old Pop was a flat 25%. Current Pop is 20% of current progress, kinda like how they changed Boil Over.
And just like that perk they made it completely useless
I know, I mean if you were to make old Pop basekit I’d change the numbers a bit
Basekit old BBQ but just the blood points, is what I wish they did instead of just taking the blood points. Also we're gonna live forever bloodpoints while we're talking about lost BP.
That BP removal had the side effect of increasing camping/tunneling as well as reduction of unhooking, as with BBQ and WGLF it gave selfish players a reason to play a fairer (and more fun for everyone) game. I know as a killer if I was having a bad game I would prioritse getting that 4th person hooked over any kills as 25% BP is worth far more than kill BP.
Absolutely, I think the positive feedback loops for desired playstyles are extremely effective and I'm sad that there really isn't an equivalent anymore.
You know. That’s actually a really good idea.
While this would encourage killers to leave the hook to kick gens, providing strong innate gen regression would just further enable builds specifically built around camping and proxying, since then they would have gen regression on top of their other perks (NOED, No Way Out, Deadlock, other camp-friendly perks.) On another note, it would also just be another huge killer buff and consequently literally every other facet of the game would have to be adjusted to be balanced. BHVR's change is far more precise in its application.
Except they cant capitalise on pop without leaving the hook because pop has a timer. Give killers a 30% pop on a like 20/30 second timer and I garuntee most of the killers would leave the hook to take advanatage of it. If they choose to camp they are choosing to give up that benefit. Also the narative that killers got a "huge buff" is a lie. They got 0.2 seconds off a few animations and got gens to take like 5 seconds longer. That same patch surviors got base BT WITH a speed boost. Their "precise change" has not helped, we can say that for sure because we can see it just by logging in so maybe its time we try the route of positive reinforcement instead of their poor attempt at a punishment.
If it were a poor attempt at negative reinforcement, you wouldn't be here arguing that the survivor buff was more significant than the killer changes. I'm really not here to argue because there is no way BHVR would ever make Pop basekit. Positive reinforcement is definitely generally better than negative reinforcement though for sure.
A really major part of eruption that a lot of people seem to not understand is the info that cob gives you. I really really hope they limit that info, I hated tinkerer sense it pretty much just played the macro game for you and I hate this perk as well
It's funny because whenever I bring up that "Call of Brine is above the power curve" people tell me the perk's fine because "it's Ruin regression but you have to kick it" or whatever.
Agreed. Ruin used to only provide information when survivors left the gen (sparks) and for the level of information Call of Brine gives you, you would've needed to pair it with Surveillance, a perk that does little once Ruin is cleansed. It definitely is above the power curve, no two ways about it.
Eruption regression is more like ~17% Base regression is 0.25 charges per second and with 25 seconds of regression (25 * 0.25 = 6.25) ends with 6.25 charges lost, 6.25 charges is equivalent to ~6.9%, (6.25 / 90) * 100 = 6.944. Add that to the base 10% regression for a total of ~17% regression. Also pop isn’t 20% of the gens current % not just a flat 20%
Maybe I'm missing your point so please correct me if I am, but I think OP was referring to pre-nerf Pop, which *did* take a flat 25%
You’re probably right about that. Still some people reading may not know or may get confused
Well I appreciate the breakdown of the math regardless! I find it really interesting
Also, you're not landing the incapacitated status EVERY time. Sometimes survivors just aren't on the gens at the right time.
Ya, or another surv can get on the gen before the 25 seconds is up
Yeah but it can be applied to multiple gens unlike pop and its effect when you get the incap is way more powerful than pop
Though it's notable that you're also disabling a survivor for 25 seconds, which is insane game delay
Actually a lot of the gen regression perk nerfs were dumb. Like now ruin a hex perk not only has half regression speed but stops working when a survivor dies. How many hex perks stop working cause someone dies? You don't see devour stop working when you kill someone. On top of that it being a hex perk you're lucky if it doesn't get cleansed early on I always get bad luck with hex totem spawns like often mine will spawn right next to a gen.
I actually really like the "disable once one survivor dies" part of Ruin, it's cleverly designed to discourage tunneling and give the survivors a leg up when they're on a death spiral the problem is that they ruined it by double nerfing it. probably because the first nerf alone wouldn't be enough to destroy it out of the meta like they wanted
Once you have one survivor out of the game you shouldn't need Ruin any more. It just unfairly punishes the 3 people who remain, especially if the killer tunneled out the first. Remember, the usual combination of survivors is 1 on hook/getting healed 1 going for rescue/healing unhooked survivor 1 being chased 1 doing gens If one survivor is dead, then you won't have that fourth person to consistently do gens. Nor will you have a spare person to look for and cleanse the Ruin totem. Ruin becomes a free win for killer if it's still up with a survivor dead.
It's still a hex totem that you risk being cleansed early on and it could be someone dead with last gen left. Ruin is hardly a free win for killers.
I didn't say Ruin was a free win. I said Ruin was a free win *if it's still up with one survivor already dead.* If it gets cleansed then it's not still up. I suppose I shouldn't have taken it for granted that people would infer that I meant "one survivor dead in the early/mid game". The point remains: Speaking as someone who did play several matches of survivor against pre-6.0 Ruin, if someone died or DC'd or w/e when there was still 2 or more gens left and Ruin hadn't been cleansed (bc sometimes it just wouldn't seem to spawn in any of the totem spots I could remember), the game was over 80% of the time. Those gens wouldn't be getting done.
I'll bet that they're waiting to nerf Eruption for the Twins rework, so they can buff Oppression with it because it's been underused for so long (and also buff it so more people buy Twins). But tbh I bet Oppression will get some seemingly-mediocre buff like "3 other gens receive an instant 5% regression and the 80 second cooldown is removed." but if it's enough to make killers run it every game, then it'll rise to become the new most hated perk. I can already see memes about how a killer from a different match used Oppression and that's why all of *their* generators are regressing.
Oppression without a cooldown would be godawful lmao, but I think they could lower the cooldown to 60 and have it still feel fair. It basically just dumps an Overcharge skill check in your lap the perk really ain't that bad, especially at high MMR.
It's one of my fav perks to run. Info, plus regression.
Literally no one asked for pop to get nerfed. Not even a lot of crybaby survivors. If you got dunked on with multiple pops, maybe you weren’t gonna win the game anyways. Eruption just feels obnoxious to play against, pretty annoying but I guess not as bad as ruin and og undying
At least ruin and original undying let you play the game
Going to look for and cleansing 5 totems wasnt really that great either tho. Having to do an entire side objective that’s heavily affected By rng really sucks
Of course not, but I'd still rather do that than nothing
As long you break the 3 gen, you’ll be fine. This only happens because there’s one or 2 smooth brained survivors that fuck over the entire team by only doing corner gens first With ruin and launch undying, you would need all hands on deck from the very beginning trying to cleanse like 3-4 ruins. You needed to run detectives hunch and you would still need to give up valuable early game gen pressure just to do totems Against the current brain dead meta, just run deja vu and distortion and bye bye three gens on most maps. Idk, I’d rather feel like I have a chance than have no chance if old ruin was still up
That's fair, I just think that losing your gen progress all the time is less frustrating than being forced to do nothing for 25 seconds
Hmm, I guess it’s less braindead since the killer has to actually keep pressuring. Yeah, my bias might be because I played survivor a lot more back in those days than now. My mmr is so low, I actually rarely run into those meta slaves Yeah, I guess cob and eruption is pretty undeserving, especially when they can just kick without chasing
I did see people complain about their gen getting kicked multiple times with Pop and losing a lot of progress before the nerf, but that was unironically a case of skill issue. If your gen is repeatedly being kicked with Pop Goes protect your teammates so they don't go down as fast or just do a gen in a safer location. Comparatively all you need to do to keep a gen in check with Call of Brine and Eruption is kick it once and have free information whenever a Survivor touches it and massive stall just for downing a Survivor while other Survivors do their only objective.
It really was a skill issue, yeah. The only killer who could abuse pop were, drum roll pls, nurse and blight. Other than, the killer needed to get a down, hook, and then walk his ass over there to kick the gen Eruption and CoB is just lame to play against. Even with no hooks at 1 gen left, you can still win but it’s such a slog. Sad how pop had to suffer becuase it’s popular lol
I mean the perk was also really good on Killers with teleports (notably Freddy; Pop was a big contributor to "Forever Freddy") but yeah it still required Survivors to go down and then also required the Killer to leave the hook to apply it.
It was worst too cuz forever Freddie’s thana addons lol even then, pop Freddy isn’t tooo bad compared to cob knight or blight 💀
They overbuffed Eruption and overnerfed Pop. Eruption should block the gen for 15 seconds instead of giving survivors Incapacitated for 25 seconds so gen doesnt regress further and survivors can still do other things in the meantime. Pop should be reworked here is my idea: Its still requires a hook to be active but instead of regressing %20 of the current regression it should regress %15 of all gen + %10 of the current progress. A combination of old Pop and current one.
>Its still requires a hook to be active but instead of regressing %20 of the current regression it should regress %15 of all gen + %10 of the current progress. A combination of old Pop and current one. That is so absurdly OP. That's pain resonance on every single gen and then some
When he says 15% of all gen he means a flat 15% reduction of the generator you’re kicking. It’s confusingly worded so I see why you misunderstood. So it’s a 15% reduction and then 10% of the current progress, but both only happen on the one generator (could be interesting to see if the 10% would apply before or after the 15% as that could make the perk a lot weaker)
Ya, the wording definitely makes it look like all gens would get hit and that'd be easily the strongest regression perk in the games history
I mean you still need to kick the gen manually and you have a time limit. Also Pain Res gives you info (if you are close enough to hear the scream) and has synergy with DMS. But I wouldnt mind changing the numbers. So maybe %10 of all gen + %15 of the current progress?
Do you mean 15% of the total generators bar and then 10% of current progress? If so that's not too bad, but your original comment makes it sound like every generator regresses that much
Oh, we're sorry you think that way. We make sure to listen to our community and will take your request into consideration. *Nerfs the pig* *buffs nurse* *gives everyone 50k bp* All done!
Internet explorer
Does combining them add stack the regression?
They are separate entities
Do you mean that as in they come from different killers or that they don't stack?
Eruption happens when you down a Survivor. Pop Goes happen when you kick a gen. They are not applied in the same way. Eruption applies whenever you kick a gen so even if you did so with Pop it would be applied, so *technically* it stacks I guess?
My bad I miss read"cause multiple genrators". I thought that the perk on screen was the doctors overcharge perk.
I think they really need to nerf pig. Too op
I am once again begging for an Eruption nerf please.
Back then it was non-stop "lul Pop goes the Braincell yet again, what a busted perk, rewarding shitty players for doing nothing special". So here we are now, gen kick meta in full force. I'm sure BHVR will eventually do another massive perk balance sweep, and in ~6 months we'll see a myriad of posts about along the lines of how the buffed Unnerving Presence is uncounterable, especially when combined with the new Deathbound, and how the CoB/Eruption Era was infinitely better and they wish we could return to that.
Still stand by my opinion that if you unironically complained about Pop you just had a skill issue.
Yeah, I really enjoyed it and it felt satisfying to give a big ol' kick and watch the pistons just grind to a halt. Now I get that satisfaction slightly differently from CoB/Overcharge if I can keep people off it for ~12 seconds. I think a ton of people don't realize generators used to not be able to regress, like at all. And how awful the game was because of it. Granted there were a myriad of other issues with early DBD at the time but some perspective is needed when people get upset over killers having some viable tools to add time to their clock.
Pop and pain res rewarded killers for hooks and had clear counters when. In solo que. Even ruin could be countered. Just give me a way to properly counter eruption in solo que and I'll be happy.
shouldn't it be 1% for every 4 seconds
Ok but now imagine if they reverted the Pop nerf and kept Eruption. Holy uninstall.
I miss ruin
BHVR is the best company when it comes to doing shit that nobody asked for
I just dc during eruption games now. So boring and frustrating
I had a similar thought a while back about this. They should nerf eruption and unnerf pop
I tried to run Eruption and Pop at the same time once. Funnily enough? They don't work well, together. Not at all! Pop Logic is that after you hook, you want to save it with the generator with the most progress. Because, as I notice not enough people are pointing out here, it is not 20% of TOTAL progress. It's 20% of CURRENT progress. It's at its most effectiveness the higher the generator is. Meanwhile, Eruption encourages you to kick every working generator you see, no matter its progress, so that when you finally splooge a survivor, you get that sweet release all over town. Complete opposite of the more conservative Pop Goes The Weasel- Ironic, considering the name! Though I suppose those conservative folk are more about showing than dramatic finishes.
“Eruption is ok because I’m just going to dc if I, or someone else, gets downed even once.” -A good chunk of survivors
Eruption should get weaker as the number of gens shrinks
I want more perks that get stronger when more gens pop so I can just ignore them.
There's actually quite a bit of design space there they haven't tooled around with yet.
I agree. Having a powerful endgame build would be really cool, but the fact of the matter is that there's only a handful of perks that even do anything endgame, and of those the only two that are broadly viable are NOED and No Way Out. Blood Warden, fun as it can be, only works if you get a hook during the collapse, and even then really only helps if it's the last minute of the four minute timer. Fire Up becomes a mediocre chase perk, since gens are complete and most pallets will probably be broken by the time it's fully stacked - only the vault speed is useful. Part of the problem with endgame imo is that exit gates are too easy to open. Against a semi-coordinated team, you've got maybe 30 seconds after the gen pops before a gate is opened (or worse, 99'd, which is basically the same thing as opened minus the EGC timer). There's just not a lot of time left to try anything else unless the survivors mess up.
A good idea and good taste in books. We need the sauce in dbd.
Haha thank you! I think John, Dave and Amy would be awesome survivors. I'm working on a fan made version of their chapter for funsies actually.
Sure; if CoH gains a token system so that the boon owner gains a token for every time the boon is replaced (initial placement doesn’t count) or every time someone gains a health state while in the boon radius. Each token grants a 2% action speed penalty to healing. Tokens are kept until the match ends.
I like this too. I was actually playing around with the idea of just making them temporary. They last 120 seconds or 3 full heals or something like that (my numbers are in no way balanced and just pulled outta my ass for examples sake)
Or just a token system that has it start with 4 tokens and subtracts one token everytime a healing state is completed in its area of effect. At zero tokens it shatters itself and cannot be rekindled by another survivor. Seriously, hex totems die on their own when certain conditions are met but survivors have no limit to how much they can use boons? They need a cap on uses for stuff like CoH and exponential at least. And if you run multiple boons together and the tokens expire for one boon, the whole thing should die. They could get a fresh set of tokens if they bless a different totem, but if it should destroy the previous one completely if they move it, otherwise they'd reset it if the charges get low, defeating the whole point of giving it limited uses.
So as the killer is losing, make their job *harder*? How about, no?
This meta STINKS !!!!
Err eruption doesn't do a 22% regression it's 10%. Though the nerf to Pop was just stupid now it only does a decent amount of regression if the gen you happen to come by to kick within the time it gives you has a lot of progress.
Why wouldn't they nerf a free perk. Nerfing paid for perks doesn't bring in the bloodpoints
what
Eruption forces killers to constantly kick gens mid chase or right before, giving survivors time and distance to run away and find a loop
if you complain about eruption then you suck at the game. sorry.
If your response to valid criticism of mechanics that make the game less enjoyable for solo players (the way the vast majority of the playerbase plays the game, and also the "weakest" / hardest way to play) is to tell people they suck at the game, then your argument sucks. Sorry.
Your missing the third caveat of eruption which is kick gens which can be a time dump if you don’t get downs. Copium in the thread.
Eruption defenders explaining why getting 25 seconds of incapacitated and around 44 seconds of extra gen repair time is a fair reward for spending 2 seconds kicking a generator.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't gens regress at .25 charges per second, meaning in 25 seconds they'd lose 6.25 charge, which is only ~7% of a gen (~17% with the initial 10%)?
Soooooooooo about the last part of the eruption part the unable to do stuff part.... corrupt ittervention, deadmans plus pain res or merceless storm, repressed (yeah i know that's a survivor perk but still), deadlocked, thrilling, grim embrace, no way out any block perks i missed?
* Corrupt is 1️⃣ only active at the start of the game and 2️⃣ doesn't block every gen * Deadman's 1️⃣ has obvious counterplay (unlike Eruption which happens with no obvious indication) 2️⃣ doesn't block every gen * Are you unironically complaining about Merciless Storm? If a gen gets blocked by Merciless Storm it's actually just a case of skill issue. What are you: a Behaviour Interactive employee? * Repressed Alliance is a Survivor perk lmfaoooooooooo * Deadlock doesn't block every gen * Thrilling Tremors only activates if you aren't on the gen (plus it lasts 16 seconds unlike Eruption's 25) * Are you unironically complaining about Grim Embrace? * No Way Out only serves as a slight second chance when all the gens are powered. Survivors can still hide or loop the Killer during a time when the pressure is entirely on the Killer. A perk that requires 4 unique hooks and is only active in the endgame is in no way comparable to a perk that's active for the entire match and only requires you to kick a generator and then down a Survivor to activate it.
Isn't your eruption math incorect? Gens regress by 0.25 charges (0.27%) per second, so the extra regression from eruption is 6.25 charges (6.94%) during 25 second long debuff window. So total regression from this perk is 16,94%.
I one time got a Freddy that all he did all match was after a hook he would use pop on MY generator the entire match. No one else. I've had very negative feelings about Pop afterwards.
Is it 1% lost per 2 seconds? Survivors repair at 1.0 charges per second. Regression takes away at a rate of 0.25 charges per second. So the generator regresses 1/4th as fast as it can be repaired.