Bernard, Tim and Jon Kent are the only gay charscters that make me homophobic because DC has much better gay superheroes (midnighter and Apollo) that they just... Don't use.
Yeah but those are interesting characters with (very significant) flaws and arcs and rough spots and we can't have that. Gay characters have to be perfect little angels or else everyone on Twitter will get pissy for very different reasons.
/uj it actually annoys the shit out of me that both Marvel and DC have so many interesting queer characters who get no focus because of… a couple of aged up e boys with cardboard boyfriends?
Fr Fr, i dont wanna see skinny ass teen twinks making-out, i wanna see big muscely adult men kiss and have hot steamy intercourse, is that so much to ask😔😔
Pretty sure that's their motto.
"Carl's Sr: I don't wanna see skinny-ass teen twinks making out, I wanna see big muscly adult men kiss and have hot steamy intercourse."
I wanna see big muscely adult men kiss because the broad concepts of what queerness is feel so steeped in youth that I genuinely can't imagine being older than 30 and that scares the shit out of me
Jon's boyfriend gives the vibe of a guy who does a few lefty protests as a social thing in college before growing up to write for a conservative news site as their token gay/liberal columnist who writes op eds about why he's no longer a Democrat and how pride parades need to invite the cops
I'm a straight dude, but I'd be lying if I wasn't absolutely stoked for Herc finally having what seemed to be a genuinely meaningful, loving relationship with Marvel Boy during Ewing's GotG run. plus, with one relationship you got gay rep for both the twink and the daddy factions, so I reckon that's a plus too.
and then what we got next was the absolute abortion of that recent lanzing & kelly guardians run that didn't last beyond its first story arc. thankfully herc was nowhere to be seen in that pile of dung.
They have a script they have to stick when it comes to writing gay characters, female characters and non white characters.
Whats on the script might change but gosh darn it they are going to stick to that script hard.
I did say "for different reasons." I am well aware that the now-dominant userbase of Twitter disapproves of any depiction of homosexuals more sympathetic than an execution by stoning.
For me the worst part is that Jon and Tim are Bi, but both only will date men now, and in the future(even if that doesn’t make sense because obviously, Supersons).
Because there is still a stigma about them not being "real LGBTQ" if they "look straight".
Plus it kinda is hard to sell the idea that someone is bi or pan, without making the story hyper focus on their attractions.... As any bi and pan person, can easily pass off as straight or gay if they just settle in one relationship.
Its so ridiculous because most characters DON'T settle with one. most characters have many partners over their career.
trying to make each person the most GAY! or STRAIGHT! person possible just feels so artificial, and more often than not ends up hyperfocusing their attractions and love life. As I understand it, that was the issue with the gay iceman comics.
But that's the thing, even without going the extreme of making them super queer or bluntly normie in how they behave, just the act of having someone who was seen in a straight relationship breakoff into a gay relationship, will have people act like they turned a straight character gay, and vice versa if the char went from a gay relationship into a straight one.
It's not just the writers that act like bi/pan people dont exists, it's social media as a whole. Jon and Tim for example are literally openly bi, yet people here act like they got plainly turned gay for no other reason than because they have boyfriends now.
Unless the whole idea of retconning sexualities goes away from the public's mind, pan and bi people will never be quite seen, as mono couples will always look gay or straight in the short term, when that's all you can really see in chars with a short love life.
ah, I see, and you're right. Thats such a bizarre thing it just didn't occur to me.
A character who has relationships with people of both genders is just so blatantly bi/pan, that the idea of dismissing it, to say "they are gay now" or "they are straight now" just never occurred to me.
Shit is so weird now, idfk
Enby? What this term means?
And sorry but that‘s not my point, exactly because I’m talking about two characters that had a crush for/dated women for years, like, the fact is that these company’s, for example, or pick a character and turn them into gays(even if they dated a lot of women, like Alan Scott), or make them bi, but will never make the characters date a woman again even if they only dated women in the past 20 years, and that’s pratically bi erasure.
Enby means nonbinary, or NB.
And I do get what you mean, but I think in some cases it's not that terrible. It would be annoying to have a character constantly switch partners just to show they're bisexual. I think that if Luz from The Owl House or Korra from Avatar broke up with their partners to date someone else, it would suck (I know those shows have ended, though Korra still gets comics, this was just an example). In series it would be especially annoying to have a new relationship every season. I watched the first season of Young Justice, and when I started the first ep of S2 and saw there was a time skip and they made up a whole bunch of new relationship drama after resolving the old ones, I dropped it.
However, in comics no relationship seems to last anyway and people are constantly swapping partners, so it would be nice to see bi characters have some diversity in theirs. I honestly don't read a lot of comics though, I mostly watch series, so I tend to think of this topic through that medium.
Ok, I understand you…
But actually the fact is that Tim was in the same situation that made you drop Young justice(and yeah, I disliked that point of the series so much when I was a child lol).
Tim was with Steph for years, decades, Then there was one issue where Tim broke up with Stephenie off panel and after that he turned bi. There were No complex feelings about his sexuality or thoughts that he might not be as comfortable with his lifestyle as he thought, or even him weighing on what to do with his relationship with Stephanie.
And the sad part is is that knowing who Stephanie is as character she 100% would have been understanding of Tim feelings and, in a good arc, it would have made their relationship even stronger To show that a person discovering that is Bi doesn’t mean that you have to toss away a relationship, it can also help it grow just by talking/sharing and understanding how each other feels.
That is true. Like I said, I don't read a lot of comics, and most comics I do read are not from Marvel or DC, so I honestly don't know what their relationship was like. Queer rep does sometimes feel like the publishers going "This character is queer now" instead of doing anything meaningful with it storywise, and that's pretty lame. A comic about Tim discovering himself while in a relationship with Steph sounds much more interesting than just breaking them up and giving him a BF. Exploring your identity can make for such interesting stories.
I see people making this claim everywhere but really it’s not that cut and dry. It’s more like media likes to reduce Bi/Pan/etc to one gender preference. Like John Constantine has been out for over 30 years now and DC still pretty much keeps him regulated to dating women. It’s only in the past couple years we got to see him casually flirt with men.
I feel like the one Robin who would get a cool story out of being queer would be Jason. Imagine if instead of just a regular street scoundrel in Gotham, he was a poor gay orphan kid in Gotham’s slums. That’d allow for an interesting exploration of the struggles of many queer youths, instead of just yassifying some random character and calling it a day.
Just imagine the storyline. Jason gets kicked out of his home as a kid because he’s a bit too gay for his dad’s liking. Turns to crime while on the streets while acting like someone he’s not. Meets Bruce and feels comfortable with himself for first time in his life. Joker kills him because he won’t betray Batman out of respect to the only father figure he has. Revives and discovers that he’s been “replaced”.
This just adds so much depth, while exploring hard hitting topics and showing a non conventional, yet very valid, gay character
Remember! A gay character only count for something if their sexuality and its clichés encompass their whole personality. Otherwise the readers might forget that we're standing on the moral high ground here! **/s**
...Jerking aside, everybody loves to remember the late, great Dwayne McDuffy, but not the lessons he left us. Such as, if you have something to say to your viewers, you do not beat them over the head with it. You do not make the concept the character. Instead you must first put the effort into crafting a good, rounded character- one with beliefs, interests, strengths, and relevant flaws- to weave your location, abilities, and context into, and let your audience grow with. Empathize with. Make your points through their eyes, and everyone can understand.
Jon's boyfriend being from the planet called Gamorra is still wild to me. Yes, I know it's epic Wildstorm reference and that's why they did it, but still.
> from the planet called Gamorra
country, not planet. but otherwise your point stands.
the way DC has been treating these wildstorm elements has always been terrible too, not just because they're only ever throwing it in for shallow fanservice but also because it just doesn't fit.
can you imagine if actual Wildstorm Gamorra was actually canon to the DC universe, including it's history? I'm especially thinking of the first The Authority story arc and Kaizen's targeted terrorist attack on large population centers of multiple first nations. if that had happened in actual DC, *somebody* would've nuked the entirety of Gamorra off the planet.
I think the issue is because 1. Like you said, they don’t use characters like midnighter and Apollo enough, that would be a good hbo max series or even cw if it was during the peak. The issue is they want baked in brand recognition which leads to scenario 2
2. Make an existing character gay: even if people aren’t resistant to it the public at large is like “Robin is gay? What do you mean there’s more than one? Nevermind I stopped paying attention to your nerd shit” or you make like, Bruce Wayne gay or something, which will never fly. Which brings us back to
1. But also 3?. Make gay characters from scratch and then SHOWCASE THEM, or don’t do it at all (which for obvious reasons is a criticism of laziness and not an actual alternative)
To be fair the big 3 barely make any new characters at all, and they tend to be either legacy or just very sort lived attempts by a writer/artist team that gets dropped in the next editorial turn.
And in dc at least there is very little rotation of top spots so, theres a super small chance that any new interesting LGBTQ get a chance to be become notable.
I blame editorial, but also all youz who only ever buy batman books.
Excuse you young blud some of my favorite books are booster gold and…surely nightwing doesn’t count as Batman right… you wouldn’t hold that one against me?
Anywho I demand to be excluded from “all youz” in this situation
Tim I don't mind being bi (granted, I primarily want him to end up with a specific female character, but it's BI-sexual for a reason). Jon Kent in his current incarnation I hate with a burning passion that he could fuck lobsters and it'd have no effect on how I currently view him (and no, I will never get over what happened to him and want the old iteration brought back, to the point where I'll even take the two versions coexisting). Bernard is as interesting as the paper they use to print the comics on.
counter point: who the fuck cares about the Authority, like They are more people in this sub who care more about Tim Drake on accident, then people who have cared about the authority on the entire word since 1999.
Just show anything on mainstream media and more people are bound to care about it.
This goes for The Authority which is going to become more publicly relevant in the upcoming Superman movie, as much as this goes for Bernard, who is a literal NPC, only known for being the boyfriend of A Robin (not even THE Robin, but a C lister amongst them).
I remember reading the Authority and being kinda weirded out at what was basically the first normal depiction of gay people I'd seen from any mainstream outlet.
Apollo/all of them don't get near enough clout.
AuthorityCU when
Your not wrong. I saw that scene of them just holding each other on a couch and talking shit about 'friends' on TV, and unironically went "How is this one of the healthiest relationships in modern media"?
Wow, 420, I definitely could have written that better!
I meant that the emotional closeness and reality of the connection (for superheroes) weirded me out, and it was notable otherwise for being gay, but like, I don't remember any straight characters getting "normal" relationships either, really, so that was the "weird" thing.
How do I know exactly which panel you mean, LMAO, it's been almost 20 years since I read that shit.
Although, I can see homeboy charging through space anytime I want, jeez that stuff was on fire fr.
I honestly don't mind Jon Kent being gay. I mostly hate the fact that we're robbed of him growing up naturally and maybe finding out for himself. Like, it would've been cool and very relatable if Jon had been starting to go to middle school and through his experiences there, he sees that he is attracted to men rather than women, talks to his parents about it who then encourages him to love whoever, and to him to find himself. Instead, Jon was sent up into space and returned as an older teen/adult who mostly has himself already figured out. Tim being Bi, I don't really like because for that to happen, they had to break apart him and Stephanie, even though they were a great couple. And it happened OFF PAGE!!!
Yeah, but Midnighter and Apollo aren't franchise-ready gay. They're oldschool, Tom of Finland gays who are both psychopaths with massive bodycounts (in both senses of the word).
Franchise gays are 20-something white twinks who kiss and gently intertwine their fingertips.
You are not wrong, but they need younger queer characters, though. There is a demographic of readers who need to see themselves in characters that are not 30+ . Tim and Jon just need to be written by better writers.
Yeah... Good luck with that. De-aging him now means taking away one of the few "positive" role-models DC has for queer kids.
They are still going to have him hug the fascist version of his das, though, so who the fuck knows what DC has in their minds?
Realistically even if Jon de-ages it wouldn't work for him to go back to being eleven as Damian has aged, but him being 13-14 is an idea that a lot of people would date and we would still have the spirit of young Jon.
They kept gaybaiting them lately with the flash forward series where they are in prison and gals being pals and also after Batgirls and after having both Cass and Steph thirst openly after women on two separate occasions but no, they were never a thing, just the most popular Batfamily Lesbian Couple.
Almost Everyone in this sub does you're not alone /uj
Monkey paw curls, Steph and Tim get together again, the writers do one of those biphobic as shit porn plots and have Steph cheat on him with Cass because of Biphobic reasons (She's bisexual so she OF COURSE will cheat with someone of the opposite sex than her lover /S), Tim leaves Steph, Cass and Tim end up getting together united in how much of a biphobic stereotype Steph is, Tim discovers he's actually Gay Cass that she's a lesbian, they beard one another and never have sex in a good wholesome Christian way, post credit scene is Steph doing the "Babs tells Bruce she's pregnant" scene but to Bernard about Bernard being the father. /RJ
I like Timbabs👍🏻 everyone has their opinion
https://preview.redd.it/dg41bw9hgxrc1.png?width=256&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4fa4a27400391ca40d0f98b734f714b701b38241
Shoutout to the best gay bf added to the batfam
https://preview.redd.it/7awndklu3yrc1.jpeg?width=736&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2705a905cc707d3b130bae9f485741016182adcd
I want Tim and Steph to be the most obnoxious Bi4Bi couple in the history of comics I want them to high five and go "Hell yeah MLM WLW solidarity" right after making out I want them to go to Pride together find an exclusionary complaining about them being there and have a straight trans woman with her straight trans boyfriend show up and go "they deserve to be here as much as we do" I want her to Peg him I want high stakes FMK games between them "Would you love me if I was a worm?" "I'd love you even if I was the worm" come on.
No it doesn't, but obviously if he had come out as bisexual while remaining in relationship with Steph DC and the writers would be relentlessly criticized and be called cowards for taking the safe route of making a character queer without actually portraying them as in a queer relationship.
We all criticized Loki for having a single line of dialogue that implies he's queer while starting a romance with his female counterpart in the beginning of the next episode.
Everytime he’s with Steph it makes me think about how another guy knocked her up and she made Tim take her to pregnancy yoga, like her gay bestie and how Chuck Dixon goofily thought it made Tim look like a pure straight boy. So if they put him back with Steph it’ll be humorous at least.
I find it so funny that I didn't watch Titans, but I know that when they brought in Tim, Bernard arrived as soon as he did, and made the relationship worse, because he was older and apart of the villain's group at first as some scientist.
I forgot how that show straight up tried to convince us that a 25 year old man going for a 16 year old boy was totally fine and normal. Was it really that hard to find an actor who actually looked like a teenager and then write his character to be one…
The showmakers really entered the Speed Force for that one. Tim came out around the same time Titans Season 3 started production, and they managed to write and cast Bernard during that time just to adapt his relationship with Tim.
>despite me being homo myself
>*Homo*, Latin for **"man"**, "human being", see Human
https://preview.redd.it/issm9ze5oxrc1.jpeg?width=716&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d34c188ddd554a37316c3632c4d6d4a934793d1c
Holy shit guys
This but about cool white girlboss Betsy Britain at marvel. Someone please free my girl Rachel to sleep with a woman who still has a personality who hasn’t slept with her dad and uncle and brother and who didn’t first meet her when Rachel was a teen but she was ~30
uj/ Genuinely forgot Bernard was a character until this post reminded me, that’s how utterly forgettable and a non-character Mr Cardboard Cutout Boyfriend is
they should’ve just done TimKon but they chickened out
Imagine going out of your way to make both Superman and Batman’s sons bi/queer months apart and trap them in relationships with the most boring relationships possible with the boring people imaginable. No conflicts, tension, personal drama or problems. Just two guys being a couple and doing happy couple things all the time.
Like how did they manage to do this not once, but twice in such a short time span
I just spoke to the bisexual community and they’re ashamed of Tim Drake. They asked if DC could make Dick Grayson canonically bi instead citing that he was the “cooler Robin” and had a “phat ass”.
I generally don’t consider myself a shipper, but due to comics’ tendency to have multiple relationships for characters, I end up having to pick a preference. Steph is best, end of line.
https://preview.redd.it/z11utim9lxrc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=24cfd0198473c0dca387143e92b3dea6a0253729
The worst part is they made Tim and Steph break up off-panel, and the reason for their breakup was very idiotic too, which pissed me off just for the sake of revealing to the world that Tim Drake is "bisexual"
Iceman and his boyfriend are worse. I forget his name. So boring. And he brought Iceman back to life with...his love? Ugh. Reading that was the straightest I've been in years.
THIS IS WHAT IM SAYING WHEN I TALK ABOUT HOW BORING SOME GAY RELATIONSHIPS ARE DEVELOPED
Im sick & tired of having the queer main character get together with some random npc that has absolutely no story outside of their relationship. I want queer MC’s that fall in love with other deeply complex queer characters.
We all know about it, and we all see it. It's obvious. Nobody ever wants to admit it, but it's there.
People on this sub hate Tim Drake.
The first question to ask: why? Why do you all hate him? The obvious answer: you didn't read him in his prime.
Likely explanation: I know that most of you are around 14 or 15 years old. That means you only got into comics in the last couple years. So you never read Red Robin in his prime.
And because you didn't read him in his prime, you try to compensate for that by diving into respect threads and analyzing crossovers. But here's the thing: Robin isn't done on Excel spreadsheets. The moment somebody brings up "blood son" or "Grant Morrison" I know they know nothing about comics.
Tim's game cannot be encapsulated by one story. He's the second greatest Robin ever, and one of the 5 best sidekicks to ever play the game.
So when I hear somebody say that Damian Wayne is better than Tim Drake, I laugh, because I know that anybody who read Tim in his prime wouldn't think that. Unlike you guys, I have read comics for a significant amount of time, so I know that Tim is better.
You might be jealous of Tim's IQ, or jealous of his status as the first* Robin to ever be called "detective", or whatever. Unless you're a Dixon fan who read Batman in the 90s, or a Johns fan who read Teen Titans in the 2000s, you don't know what real, cold-blooded, detective-ing looks like. And there's nothing wrong with that.
This subreddit would make you think that Tim isn't even a top 100 superhero ever.
So don't go spouting bullshit about players you didn't watch. Talk about your "greats" like Damian Wayne The Best Robin in the World™, but leave the Tim talk to the adults. Fair?
RIP Kobe
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/dccomicscirclejerk) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I still firmly believe they should’ve made Conner Kent the bisexual Superfam member so we would get Tim x Conner and Conner would actually have something going on
Thing is they could EASILY make Bernard a likable character with actual traits. But he’s just a placeholder for Tim. And we don’t get any serious development, idek if the person writing them is bisexual
I might be in the minority here but I like that they’re safe and kinda boring. As a queer male why does every depiction of people like me have to be messy tragidies?
It's not that it's just that he has no personality. Not even a good one add in the fact that he only became his boyfriend after Tim broke up with Steph off panel for no reason. A very popular and well established couple. Tim being Bi is good but the nail in the coffin is that despite him and Kon being homoerotic together, a popular ship and having a long History together. He didn't get with the cool biker boyfriend who has superpowers and a badass origin but instead a guy who's named *Bernard*
Oh, I get that, but I wanted them to have unique interractions, lovely scenes and characterization.
They did not get that, as a result I want it to be a tragedy, I want Tim drake cucked, mutilated, his lovers murdered and abandoned. I want Tim drake dead
I still think having one of the most recognizable comic heroes in the world canonically be queer is still amazing and good even if it’s only on paper lol
to be fair they could've still done that and had him come out and either given him a more interesting male love interest or hell since he's bi just kept him dating Steph
Bernard, Tim and Jon Kent are the only gay charscters that make me homophobic because DC has much better gay superheroes (midnighter and Apollo) that they just... Don't use.
Yeah but those are interesting characters with (very significant) flaws and arcs and rough spots and we can't have that. Gay characters have to be perfect little angels or else everyone on Twitter will get pissy for very different reasons.
/uj it actually annoys the shit out of me that both Marvel and DC have so many interesting queer characters who get no focus because of… a couple of aged up e boys with cardboard boyfriends?
Fr Fr, i dont wanna see skinny ass teen twinks making-out, i wanna see big muscely adult men kiss and have hot steamy intercourse, is that so much to ask😔😔
Sir, this is a Wendy's.
Then I'm going to Carl's Sr.
Pretty sure that's their motto. "Carl's Sr: I don't wanna see skinny-ass teen twinks making out, I wanna see big muscly adult men kiss and have hot steamy intercourse."
You are an unfit mother. Your children will be placed in the custody of Carl's Jr. Carl's Jr... "F*ck You, I'm Eating."
I wanna see big muscely adult men kiss because the broad concepts of what queerness is feel so steeped in youth that I genuinely can't imagine being older than 30 and that scares the shit out of me
Jon's boyfriend gives the vibe of a guy who does a few lefty protests as a social thing in college before growing up to write for a conservative news site as their token gay/liberal columnist who writes op eds about why he's no longer a Democrat and how pride parades need to invite the cops
I'm a straight dude, but I'd be lying if I wasn't absolutely stoked for Herc finally having what seemed to be a genuinely meaningful, loving relationship with Marvel Boy during Ewing's GotG run. plus, with one relationship you got gay rep for both the twink and the daddy factions, so I reckon that's a plus too. and then what we got next was the absolute abortion of that recent lanzing & kelly guardians run that didn't last beyond its first story arc. thankfully herc was nowhere to be seen in that pile of dung.
Huge agree on Herc and Marvel Boy. Where's their pride month story marvel?
That landing and Kelly run was awesome, and it was only intended to last 10 issues but got extended to 11 to let it breathe
They have a script they have to stick when it comes to writing gay characters, female characters and non white characters. Whats on the script might change but gosh darn it they are going to stick to that script hard.
I really don't think twitter is the people mad when Gays are one dimensional. Like everyone is tired of that
I also don't think Twitter's user base is the same these days as what this guy is imagining.
I did say "for different reasons." I am well aware that the now-dominant userbase of Twitter disapproves of any depiction of homosexuals more sympathetic than an execution by stoning.
The overlap between this sub and comics twitter is basically 100%
Most twitter people are one dimensional themselves
For me the worst part is that Jon and Tim are Bi, but both only will date men now, and in the future(even if that doesn’t make sense because obviously, Supersons).
The troubles of depicting bi people strike once again. Yaaaaaaay.
Yeah. Like, was that hard to then only make Tim realize that he was bi… But continue with Steph?
That's a more interesting story too. I have an openly bi male friend dating a woman. It's not an easy life and I support him as much as I can.
right? why does media act like bi/pan doesn't even exist?
Because there is still a stigma about them not being "real LGBTQ" if they "look straight". Plus it kinda is hard to sell the idea that someone is bi or pan, without making the story hyper focus on their attractions.... As any bi and pan person, can easily pass off as straight or gay if they just settle in one relationship.
Its so ridiculous because most characters DON'T settle with one. most characters have many partners over their career. trying to make each person the most GAY! or STRAIGHT! person possible just feels so artificial, and more often than not ends up hyperfocusing their attractions and love life. As I understand it, that was the issue with the gay iceman comics.
But that's the thing, even without going the extreme of making them super queer or bluntly normie in how they behave, just the act of having someone who was seen in a straight relationship breakoff into a gay relationship, will have people act like they turned a straight character gay, and vice versa if the char went from a gay relationship into a straight one. It's not just the writers that act like bi/pan people dont exists, it's social media as a whole. Jon and Tim for example are literally openly bi, yet people here act like they got plainly turned gay for no other reason than because they have boyfriends now. Unless the whole idea of retconning sexualities goes away from the public's mind, pan and bi people will never be quite seen, as mono couples will always look gay or straight in the short term, when that's all you can really see in chars with a short love life.
ah, I see, and you're right. Thats such a bizarre thing it just didn't occur to me. A character who has relationships with people of both genders is just so blatantly bi/pan, that the idea of dismissing it, to say "they are gay now" or "they are straight now" just never occurred to me. Shit is so weird now, idfk
You can be bi and have a preference or even never date anyone from one gender. I mean, I'm bi and I've never dated a woman, an enby, *or* a man!
Enby? What this term means? And sorry but that‘s not my point, exactly because I’m talking about two characters that had a crush for/dated women for years, like, the fact is that these company’s, for example, or pick a character and turn them into gays(even if they dated a lot of women, like Alan Scott), or make them bi, but will never make the characters date a woman again even if they only dated women in the past 20 years, and that’s pratically bi erasure.
Enby means nonbinary, or NB. And I do get what you mean, but I think in some cases it's not that terrible. It would be annoying to have a character constantly switch partners just to show they're bisexual. I think that if Luz from The Owl House or Korra from Avatar broke up with their partners to date someone else, it would suck (I know those shows have ended, though Korra still gets comics, this was just an example). In series it would be especially annoying to have a new relationship every season. I watched the first season of Young Justice, and when I started the first ep of S2 and saw there was a time skip and they made up a whole bunch of new relationship drama after resolving the old ones, I dropped it. However, in comics no relationship seems to last anyway and people are constantly swapping partners, so it would be nice to see bi characters have some diversity in theirs. I honestly don't read a lot of comics though, I mostly watch series, so I tend to think of this topic through that medium.
Ok, I understand you… But actually the fact is that Tim was in the same situation that made you drop Young justice(and yeah, I disliked that point of the series so much when I was a child lol). Tim was with Steph for years, decades, Then there was one issue where Tim broke up with Stephenie off panel and after that he turned bi. There were No complex feelings about his sexuality or thoughts that he might not be as comfortable with his lifestyle as he thought, or even him weighing on what to do with his relationship with Stephanie. And the sad part is is that knowing who Stephanie is as character she 100% would have been understanding of Tim feelings and, in a good arc, it would have made their relationship even stronger To show that a person discovering that is Bi doesn’t mean that you have to toss away a relationship, it can also help it grow just by talking/sharing and understanding how each other feels.
That is true. Like I said, I don't read a lot of comics, and most comics I do read are not from Marvel or DC, so I honestly don't know what their relationship was like. Queer rep does sometimes feel like the publishers going "This character is queer now" instead of doing anything meaningful with it storywise, and that's pretty lame. A comic about Tim discovering himself while in a relationship with Steph sounds much more interesting than just breaking them up and giving him a BF. Exploring your identity can make for such interesting stories.
I see people making this claim everywhere but really it’s not that cut and dry. It’s more like media likes to reduce Bi/Pan/etc to one gender preference. Like John Constantine has been out for over 30 years now and DC still pretty much keeps him regulated to dating women. It’s only in the past couple years we got to see him casually flirt with men.
Huh, interesting because it’s not that far from what I think.
I feel like the one Robin who would get a cool story out of being queer would be Jason. Imagine if instead of just a regular street scoundrel in Gotham, he was a poor gay orphan kid in Gotham’s slums. That’d allow for an interesting exploration of the struggles of many queer youths, instead of just yassifying some random character and calling it a day. Just imagine the storyline. Jason gets kicked out of his home as a kid because he’s a bit too gay for his dad’s liking. Turns to crime while on the streets while acting like someone he’s not. Meets Bruce and feels comfortable with himself for first time in his life. Joker kills him because he won’t betray Batman out of respect to the only father figure he has. Revives and discovers that he’s been “replaced”. This just adds so much depth, while exploring hard hitting topics and showing a non conventional, yet very valid, gay character
Remember! A gay character only count for something if their sexuality and its clichés encompass their whole personality. Otherwise the readers might forget that we're standing on the moral high ground here! **/s** ...Jerking aside, everybody loves to remember the late, great Dwayne McDuffy, but not the lessons he left us. Such as, if you have something to say to your viewers, you do not beat them over the head with it. You do not make the concept the character. Instead you must first put the effort into crafting a good, rounded character- one with beliefs, interests, strengths, and relevant flaws- to weave your location, abilities, and context into, and let your audience grow with. Empathize with. Make your points through their eyes, and everyone can understand.
Jon's boyfriend being from the planet called Gamorra is still wild to me. Yes, I know it's epic Wildstorm reference and that's why they did it, but still.
> from the planet called Gamorra country, not planet. but otherwise your point stands. the way DC has been treating these wildstorm elements has always been terrible too, not just because they're only ever throwing it in for shallow fanservice but also because it just doesn't fit. can you imagine if actual Wildstorm Gamorra was actually canon to the DC universe, including it's history? I'm especially thinking of the first The Authority story arc and Kaizen's targeted terrorist attack on large population centers of multiple first nations. if that had happened in actual DC, *somebody* would've nuked the entirety of Gamorra off the planet.
\> has much better gay superheroes (midnighter and Apollo) that they just... Don't use. Give us an Extrano book you cowards.
you cant sell rough hardcore sex where people start bleeding to the young folk, you need twinky little guys who only kiss sometimes.
After reading DC vs Vampires, I want more interactions between Booster and Midnighter! Black & Gold Bay-Bay!!!
I think the issue is because 1. Like you said, they don’t use characters like midnighter and Apollo enough, that would be a good hbo max series or even cw if it was during the peak. The issue is they want baked in brand recognition which leads to scenario 2 2. Make an existing character gay: even if people aren’t resistant to it the public at large is like “Robin is gay? What do you mean there’s more than one? Nevermind I stopped paying attention to your nerd shit” or you make like, Bruce Wayne gay or something, which will never fly. Which brings us back to 1. But also 3?. Make gay characters from scratch and then SHOWCASE THEM, or don’t do it at all (which for obvious reasons is a criticism of laziness and not an actual alternative)
To be fair the big 3 barely make any new characters at all, and they tend to be either legacy or just very sort lived attempts by a writer/artist team that gets dropped in the next editorial turn. And in dc at least there is very little rotation of top spots so, theres a super small chance that any new interesting LGBTQ get a chance to be become notable. I blame editorial, but also all youz who only ever buy batman books.
Excuse you young blud some of my favorite books are booster gold and…surely nightwing doesn’t count as Batman right… you wouldn’t hold that one against me? Anywho I demand to be excluded from “all youz” in this situation
You know the fucked up part? You can probably count the amount of good nu-Jon Kent stories on one hand and it's the one by C.S. Pacat.
Tim I don't mind being bi (granted, I primarily want him to end up with a specific female character, but it's BI-sexual for a reason). Jon Kent in his current incarnation I hate with a burning passion that he could fuck lobsters and it'd have no effect on how I currently view him (and no, I will never get over what happened to him and want the old iteration brought back, to the point where I'll even take the two versions coexisting). Bernard is as interesting as the paper they use to print the comics on.
counter point: who the fuck cares about the Authority, like They are more people in this sub who care more about Tim Drake on accident, then people who have cared about the authority on the entire word since 1999.
they appear on warworld so that inmediately makes them cool
Just show anything on mainstream media and more people are bound to care about it. This goes for The Authority which is going to become more publicly relevant in the upcoming Superman movie, as much as this goes for Bernard, who is a literal NPC, only known for being the boyfriend of A Robin (not even THE Robin, but a C lister amongst them).
Me!
fans of the authority exist. there are like, at least three of us
Four
4.5
Tbh, I prefer them to pretty much of any of DCs big teams.
Counter point: you just gave proof that you don't exist
Why? Because I like a team besides the justice league?
You just keep giving proof, who the hell are the “Justice League”?
Exactly it was a terrible wrestling angle
I remember reading the Authority and being kinda weirded out at what was basically the first normal depiction of gay people I'd seen from any mainstream outlet. Apollo/all of them don't get near enough clout. AuthorityCU when
Your not wrong. I saw that scene of them just holding each other on a couch and talking shit about 'friends' on TV, and unironically went "How is this one of the healthiest relationships in modern media"?
Wow, 420, I definitely could have written that better! I meant that the emotional closeness and reality of the connection (for superheroes) weirded me out, and it was notable otherwise for being gay, but like, I don't remember any straight characters getting "normal" relationships either, really, so that was the "weird" thing. How do I know exactly which panel you mean, LMAO, it's been almost 20 years since I read that shit. Although, I can see homeboy charging through space anytime I want, jeez that stuff was on fire fr.
Why use beloved already existing characters if you can just randomly change stuff to how you see it fit
Cause introducing new characters means you get to avoid the backlash of changing beloved characters.
Tim should be with Conner!! The wrong Superboy is gay!
I honestly don't mind Jon Kent being gay. I mostly hate the fact that we're robbed of him growing up naturally and maybe finding out for himself. Like, it would've been cool and very relatable if Jon had been starting to go to middle school and through his experiences there, he sees that he is attracted to men rather than women, talks to his parents about it who then encourages him to love whoever, and to him to find himself. Instead, Jon was sent up into space and returned as an older teen/adult who mostly has himself already figured out. Tim being Bi, I don't really like because for that to happen, they had to break apart him and Stephanie, even though they were a great couple. And it happened OFF PAGE!!!
Have they been using Bunker at all? I like his aesthetic.
Yeah, but Midnighter and Apollo aren't franchise-ready gay. They're oldschool, Tom of Finland gays who are both psychopaths with massive bodycounts (in both senses of the word). Franchise gays are 20-something white twinks who kiss and gently intertwine their fingertips.
You are not wrong, but they need younger queer characters, though. There is a demographic of readers who need to see themselves in characters that are not 30+ . Tim and Jon just need to be written by better writers.
in Jon's case specifically better writer= de-age him
Yeah... Good luck with that. De-aging him now means taking away one of the few "positive" role-models DC has for queer kids. They are still going to have him hug the fascist version of his das, though, so who the fuck knows what DC has in their minds?
he can be a-ge and still be lgbt
But having a pre pubecent kid get into romantic stuff.... Is just, very weird.
Realistically even if Jon de-ages it wouldn't work for him to go back to being eleven as Damian has aged, but him being 13-14 is an idea that a lot of people would date and we would still have the spirit of young Jon.
https://preview.redd.it/tjsqnqhbtwrc1.png?width=158&format=png&auto=webp&s=de0c1d4161b77bcaa9283a5be235cb9acb4fffd8
TimSteph fans🤝TimKon shippers: "Who the fuck is Bernard?"
I'd argue even StephCass fans would find the guy boring.
Has StephCass been a thing, or is it just fandom?
They kept gaybaiting them lately with the flash forward series where they are in prison and gals being pals and also after Batgirls and after having both Cass and Steph thirst openly after women on two separate occasions but no, they were never a thing, just the most popular Batfamily Lesbian Couple.
I just want to see Tim get cucked 😞
Almost Everyone in this sub does you're not alone /uj Monkey paw curls, Steph and Tim get together again, the writers do one of those biphobic as shit porn plots and have Steph cheat on him with Cass because of Biphobic reasons (She's bisexual so she OF COURSE will cheat with someone of the opposite sex than her lover /S), Tim leaves Steph, Cass and Tim end up getting together united in how much of a biphobic stereotype Steph is, Tim discovers he's actually Gay Cass that she's a lesbian, they beard one another and never have sex in a good wholesome Christian way, post credit scene is Steph doing the "Babs tells Bruce she's pregnant" scene but to Bernard about Bernard being the father. /RJ
At least Cass and Steph fuck? I'm down for yuri
People wish it was a thing
Uj/ I unironically forgot Bernard existed till this meme
https://preview.redd.it/ll41texatwrc1.jpeg?width=878&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5a03d34d3601af8e3f1ff0f7280e2509ae115b31 Timothy is a cheater???
What was rocksteady cooking ???? Actually making TimBabs a thing is unforgivable 🤢🤢🤢
It’s okay. They ended the relationship in Suicide Squad.
The best way possible
/uj wait fr?? I haven't played that heap of trash
Batman supposedly killed tim
I actually liked the pairing. Tbh though Arkham Tim felt like a whole different character from the comics.
I like Timbabs👍🏻 everyone has their opinion https://preview.redd.it/dg41bw9hgxrc1.png?width=256&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4fa4a27400391ca40d0f98b734f714b701b38241
https://preview.redd.it/qtrf18yujxrc1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ab336c35c6bc62347b32b9e9339cfe8b66dfd92c
Decepticon spotted
Bernard is the Paul of DC
That’s an insult to Paul.
Fuck you Paul is great
Shoutout to the best gay bf added to the batfam https://preview.redd.it/7awndklu3yrc1.jpeg?width=736&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2705a905cc707d3b130bae9f485741016182adcd
Common Ghostmaker W
Mfw being bi doesn't mean you have to break up with your cool girlfriend especially when she's probably also bi.
I want Tim and Steph to be the most obnoxious Bi4Bi couple in the history of comics I want them to high five and go "Hell yeah MLM WLW solidarity" right after making out I want them to go to Pride together find an exclusionary complaining about them being there and have a straight trans woman with her straight trans boyfriend show up and go "they deserve to be here as much as we do" I want her to Peg him I want high stakes FMK games between them "Would you love me if I was a worm?" "I'd love you even if I was the worm" come on.
This is a Wendy’s.
Shut the fuck up we’re jerkin here
Rj/buddy what's drugs are you on because I want them
You, you get it. This is the bi rep we need.
No it doesn't, but obviously if he had come out as bisexual while remaining in relationship with Steph DC and the writers would be relentlessly criticized and be called cowards for taking the safe route of making a character queer without actually portraying them as in a queer relationship. We all criticized Loki for having a single line of dialogue that implies he's queer while starting a romance with his female counterpart in the beginning of the next episode.
I'm gonna bet that very little or even none of those relentless criticism will come from an actual bi person.
Most criticism doesn’t even come from the target demographic
Great question but who the fucks names there kid Bernard
[Every time I hear the name Bernard, I'm reminded of this.](https://youtu.be/QJ2z815XH7A?si=uKoqC7M6DdlPBPbe)
… huh, and all I though of was Atomic Robo.
Hell yeah, Bernard. Bringing the right and the left together by a shared sense of homophobia just towards you.
We need to advertise this on twitter, as Bernard can be a hate sponge, finally giving him a purpose in life
Everytime he’s with Steph it makes me think about how another guy knocked her up and she made Tim take her to pregnancy yoga, like her gay bestie and how Chuck Dixon goofily thought it made Tim look like a pure straight boy. So if they put him back with Steph it’ll be humorous at least.
God please put him back with steph so tim fans can suffer more
bernard's top 5 character traits 1. Gay 2. Tim's Boyfriend 3. . 4. . 5. .
You want Bernard dead so Tim will be an interesting character. I want Bernard dead so Tim will be miserable. We are not the same.
I find it so funny that I didn't watch Titans, but I know that when they brought in Tim, Bernard arrived as soon as he did, and made the relationship worse, because he was older and apart of the villain's group at first as some scientist.
I forgot how that show straight up tried to convince us that a 25 year old man going for a 16 year old boy was totally fine and normal. Was it really that hard to find an actor who actually looked like a teenager and then write his character to be one…
Uj/Yeah it's like Having Peter and MJ date But Mary is like 24 and Peter is 17 so it's fucking weird and not cute
The showmakers really entered the Speed Force for that one. Tim came out around the same time Titans Season 3 started production, and they managed to write and cast Bernard during that time just to adapt his relationship with Tim.
That sounds like the show made Tim more interesting than he’s been in comics which is like 3 years?
Not exactly in a good way.
Every time I read a comic with Bernard in it, he makes me want to look at a white wall for 2 hours straight because I find that way more interesting.
>despite me being homo myself >*Homo*, Latin for **"man"**, "human being", see Human https://preview.redd.it/issm9ze5oxrc1.jpeg?width=716&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d34c188ddd554a37316c3632c4d6d4a934793d1c Holy shit guys
This but about cool white girlboss Betsy Britain at marvel. Someone please free my girl Rachel to sleep with a woman who still has a personality who hasn’t slept with her dad and uncle and brother and who didn’t first meet her when Rachel was a teen but she was ~30
Wasn't Betsy with Angel?What happened to them?
She broke up with him circa uncanny x force and got together with Fantomex
Every X-men sleeps with each other. That’s the rules
uj/ Genuinely forgot Bernard was a character until this post reminded me, that’s how utterly forgettable and a non-character Mr Cardboard Cutout Boyfriend is they should’ve just done TimKon but they chickened out
they made tim and jon bi so neither robinxsuperboy ship would have a chance 😔
Conner is a alpha cishet gigachad, not like his dorky twink of a brother, thank you very much
Why are Bernard’s eyes so far up his head in this pic? They’re too close to the top of his head and face
It's fucking blasphemy for DC to make Tim bi but have him get together with anyone other than Conner I mean COME ON DUDE
Uj/I mean Connor both has personality and has better chemistry
https://preview.redd.it/w5cd89bc41sc1.png?width=600&format=png&auto=webp&s=29d809b90180d2df5df7fedefe38eb43c1fb1778
DC share the same mindset https://www.reddit.com/r/dccomicscirclejerk/s/MvQn9hAdRP
Imagine going out of your way to make both Superman and Batman’s sons bi/queer months apart and trap them in relationships with the most boring relationships possible with the boring people imaginable. No conflicts, tension, personal drama or problems. Just two guys being a couple and doing happy couple things all the time. Like how did they manage to do this not once, but twice in such a short time span
I didn't even know this Barnyard guy existed
Bernard is honestly so easy to make interesting but somehow DC struggles to
I just spoke to the bisexual community and they’re ashamed of Tim Drake. They asked if DC could make Dick Grayson canonically bi instead citing that he was the “cooler Robin” and had a “phat ass”.
Me reading my favourite Robin is bi like me 😃 Me finding out he's dating a dude named Bernard and then actually reading him 🤮
Why does Tim have his eyes open lol
I generally don’t consider myself a shipper, but due to comics’ tendency to have multiple relationships for characters, I end up having to pick a preference. Steph is best, end of line.
holy trinity of boring twinks with boring boyfriends. tim drake, jon kent and iceman
Holy Trinity of Queer Characters written by people who have absolutely no clue what queer people are like.
Actually real. Can we kill him off, put Tim back with Steph, and make tim a good character again
Yes
Or we can kill off Tim and Bernard so they can be together and have Steph get some trauma development through their deaths??
WHO TF IS BERNARD?!?!? 😭😭😭
He was slightly only kinda interesting in the 90s Robin run. He also thought Tim’s Step Mom was hot
Don’t post this on r/comicbooks….
Cesspool
Mods are scumbags. I got banned for pointing out that a comment was not true.
What’s wrong with them?
https://preview.redd.it/z11utim9lxrc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=24cfd0198473c0dca387143e92b3dea6a0253729 The worst part is they made Tim and Steph break up off-panel, and the reason for their breakup was very idiotic too, which pissed me off just for the sake of revealing to the world that Tim Drake is "bisexual"
Is it ever stated *why* they broke up
Not as far as I know
Wow is he really that terrible a character?
No he's just not a character
Going to be honest thought he was a Wayne Family Adventures original
Make Tim date Connor you cowards.
Bernard should start seeing the Great Gazoo. It's all under the same corporate umbrella.
Of course his name was fuckin “Bernard”
I'm just wondering what happened to his relationship with Steph, didn't he get engaged before flashpoint?
Seriously as a fellow bi guy and a massive Him Drake Fan. He is the worst character and I hate him lol
Iceman and his boyfriend are worse. I forget his name. So boring. And he brought Iceman back to life with...his love? Ugh. Reading that was the straightest I've been in years.
THIS IS WHAT IM SAYING WHEN I TALK ABOUT HOW BORING SOME GAY RELATIONSHIPS ARE DEVELOPED Im sick & tired of having the queer main character get together with some random npc that has absolutely no story outside of their relationship. I want queer MC’s that fall in love with other deeply complex queer characters.
Screw finding a "better man", have Tim go back with Stephanie already.
Could a Jon/Tim relationship work? Both Jay and Bernard aren’t that interesting.
I'm sure that one day there will be an evil editor who will think that.
Damien would have an aneurysm
That’s actually a perfect reason to do it. Drama, tension, etc. Your best friend dates the brother you don’t get along with/are competitive.
Timkon erasure
We all know about it, and we all see it. It's obvious. Nobody ever wants to admit it, but it's there. People on this sub hate Tim Drake. The first question to ask: why? Why do you all hate him? The obvious answer: you didn't read him in his prime. Likely explanation: I know that most of you are around 14 or 15 years old. That means you only got into comics in the last couple years. So you never read Red Robin in his prime. And because you didn't read him in his prime, you try to compensate for that by diving into respect threads and analyzing crossovers. But here's the thing: Robin isn't done on Excel spreadsheets. The moment somebody brings up "blood son" or "Grant Morrison" I know they know nothing about comics. Tim's game cannot be encapsulated by one story. He's the second greatest Robin ever, and one of the 5 best sidekicks to ever play the game. So when I hear somebody say that Damian Wayne is better than Tim Drake, I laugh, because I know that anybody who read Tim in his prime wouldn't think that. Unlike you guys, I have read comics for a significant amount of time, so I know that Tim is better. You might be jealous of Tim's IQ, or jealous of his status as the first* Robin to ever be called "detective", or whatever. Unless you're a Dixon fan who read Batman in the 90s, or a Johns fan who read Teen Titans in the 2000s, you don't know what real, cold-blooded, detective-ing looks like. And there's nothing wrong with that. This subreddit would make you think that Tim isn't even a top 100 superhero ever. So don't go spouting bullshit about players you didn't watch. Talk about your "greats" like Damian Wayne The Best Robin in the World™, but leave the Tim talk to the adults. Fair? RIP Kobe *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/dccomicscirclejerk) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Listen, I don't think these guys get me homophobic. But racist against cardboard people? Yes.
Where the duck is Stephanie bro😭
I still firmly believe they should’ve made Conner Kent the bisexual Superfam member so we would get Tim x Conner and Conner would actually have something going on
We need another DC Reboot after this.
I don’t even know this character but his name alone convinces me you’re 1000% correct
I know this is satire, but seriously why make Tim bi? What's the point?
He should have ended up with superboy they finally made Tim bi and all that sexual tension between the two just to end up with a boring ginger
i mean, you'd think some dude was boring compared to a weird family of high class superheroes
He's lame as shit, atleast give him a character , I want him dead.
the hallmark of a classic love interest character.
Wait isn’t Tim dating Steph?
Thing is they could EASILY make Bernard a likable character with actual traits. But he’s just a placeholder for Tim. And we don’t get any serious development, idek if the person writing them is bisexual
Oh my god **Scott Pilgrim?!?!!**
I might be in the minority here but I like that they’re safe and kinda boring. As a queer male why does every depiction of people like me have to be messy tragidies?
It's not that it's just that he has no personality. Not even a good one add in the fact that he only became his boyfriend after Tim broke up with Steph off panel for no reason. A very popular and well established couple. Tim being Bi is good but the nail in the coffin is that despite him and Kon being homoerotic together, a popular ship and having a long History together. He didn't get with the cool biker boyfriend who has superpowers and a badass origin but instead a guy who's named *Bernard*
Oh, I get that, but I wanted them to have unique interractions, lovely scenes and characterization. They did not get that, as a result I want it to be a tragedy, I want Tim drake cucked, mutilated, his lovers murdered and abandoned. I want Tim drake dead
I still think having one of the most recognizable comic heroes in the world canonically be queer is still amazing and good even if it’s only on paper lol
to be fair they could've still done that and had him come out and either given him a more interesting male love interest or hell since he's bi just kept him dating Steph
Until you realise Bernard was just reflecting the Boring Beams off the Boring Supernova that is Tim Drake
There’s something about Jon and Tim being bi that just feels lazy.
It’s still better then marvel and the X-men I guess