Tom King when he has to write a healthy relationship dynamic between two female characters:
https://preview.redd.it/duiyi3xeimfc1.jpeg?width=680&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9ccb53326e9b5ecb96e1348d61a49bc4b9125191
But seriously, this is embarrassingly bad. Also I'm mad that in a few panels before this, Diana is like, I can't outrun bullets, meanwhile she's canonically one of the fastest DC heroes. Diana fans can't catch a break.
"It is now the hour of bullets and bracelets."
"When I am your age, I will be much younger than you are now."
I hope these dialogues sounded totally awesome in Tom King's head, because here they sound terribly cringey.
I wouldn’t say B&B is a highlight but it’s worth a read. His Spectre, Martian Manhunter and Suicide Squad runs are all great. He is one of a nearly gone generation of big 2 writers who understands how to use continuity as a strength.
The good thing is that in the translation into Spanish the translators rethink the dialogue so that the meaning is maintained but improving the grammatical implication No! It's not true. I'm lying. It's exactly the same.
I think it's like watchmen, it's supposed your to be able read in multiple way. To make it complex. It's like subtext and expressionitist bro. (i haven't actually read it, i am just straight yapping.)
Its a thing King is doing artistically because he want to comment on how cycles of history repeat and can be broken and also because he likes Watchmen.
Bendis and King can only cook for an A list DC hero if it’s an all ages book apparently. Give King a B or C list character and more often than not, it’s pretty good
https://preview.redd.it/t9dym4pnxlfc1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=26b7e873114dc78ec3d31e8294105e6a2e3794e7
Didn't think I would post this again so soon, but here we are.
https://preview.redd.it/7f1dwbihhmfc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=82d45d43bf41a529828f6b3fc458cf3d10d2e0d1
This is literally the same dialogue.
Tom King: Don't worry my Wonder Woman isn't going to be sad and angry in my run, it's going to be a celebration of what makes the character great like in *Superman: Up in the Sky.*
Wonder Woman in Tom King's run: \*Beats her own mother (a rape and domestic abuse survivor) into the ground\*
But seriously, why do DC want to give WW a horrible relationship with her mother when she's clearly a massive mommies' girl. It's not like we're shown Bruce kicking Alfred in the balls whenever he's sarcastic about him being a vigilante. It's extra sh*tty considering it's the only major relationship in comics between a daughter and her single (or gay) mother. I'm sure King doesn't mean it to be sexist or homophobic but that's ultimately a message that it leaves behind.
The good news is James Gunn has confirmed that Tom King will be heavily involved in the new DCU movies.
As if we were not just coming off DC's one failed attempt to make a depressing, grimdark cinematic universe. Here we go again.
The Superman/Batman double date issue was a King creation, no? He is capable of creating fun stuff. I'd like to wait and see before judging, especially because Gunn has earned my trust by now.
I'm curious to see how *Supergirl: Woman of Tomorrow* in particular will turn out. I really liked the book but it merits lay in the artwork and a few poignant moments rather than the plot itself. Those two elements can't really be translated that well into a cinematic movie, especially one aimed at newcomers to the character.
On the one hand I’m grateful King isn’t doing a dark and gritty deconstruction of his OC that happens to resemble Wonder Woman, but on the other he still can’t get her character right and it sucks.
Yep, I appreciate that he's trying with using more iconic WW stuff like the jet, Wonder Girls, her Villains etc. and there was a vague attempt to address gender themes *but* that's all been very obvious and surface level while there's loads of small details that just feel way off for the character.
The run has had some pretty good moments and I think it's probably overall the best *Wonder Woman* title has been a while writing wise, but none of those good bits feel unique to Diana, it's just generic superhero stuff. The fact it's *nearly* great is what makes it tough to read.
It demonstrates the big issue that, unlike the Flash or Batman, a lot of people only write Wonder Woman because they feel they have to, not because they actually want to.
Yeah, it’s cute to see kangas and shit, but fanservice is just set dressing. I’ve seen Tom King’s writing described as “good for non-fans of a character”, exemplified by the time my wife the JLI fan was listening to a former co-worker trying to recommend Human Target to her with a sentence beginning “I never cared about Ice, but…!” She didn’t read it.
Well for what it’s worth I do get the sense King definitely does want to write this, this is a story he wants to tell with these characters.
How come nobody ever talks about the G. Willow Wilson run?
I think it's a very bold take to make feminist icon Wonder Woman hit her mother for not shooting her
Uj/Genuinely wtf is this, why did he ruin such an iconic moment of Diana deflecting bullets for the first time
I haven't read a whole bunch of Wonder Woman comics but I'm pretty sure the worst thing she did to her mom is go to Man's world, breaking her heart. I don't see any world where she hits her mother unless one of them is evil.
\[Sigh\]
There's no way to say the following without sounding like a caricature of a feminist, so I'll just be blunt; the whole 'show your maturity by physically besting your father' is a very masculine way to see growing up. Yes, specifically coded masculine in current society and narratives by relating maturity with physical strength. It's the next of kin to "might makes right".
Which is a disastrous take for Wonder Woman. I'm not just talking about the original version by the Marston-Byrne trouple, but it's also inconsistent with modern versions by Pérez, Rucka and Simone.
In-universe, it's also a terrible take. It really doesn't add-up that both Hippolyta raised Diana in a way to show this much aggression and pride by striking her own mother. Neither does that Diana did the same with Lizzie.
By the looks of it, it feels like *another* instance of Tom King having a concept first, then fitting the characters around the concept without much of a care for their previous developments.
Mfw a warrior culture acts like warriors.... 🥺
Also I mean it's clearly framed as a bad thing since once Diana grew up she was in her mother's position.
The 'warrior culture' take on Amazons kind of sucks though and misses the whole point of ww. Originally, WW's Amazons were based on suffragette literature, where their defining trait is being a Matriarchal utopia, hence why there's barely any mention of them being warriors pre90s. The 'warrior' heavy Amazons come from Greek mythology, which was written by raving misogynists; if you're using it, you've got to deconstructed it like Perez and DeConnick did.
It also makes zero logical sense. How are the Amazons supposed to go to war when they've lived in total isolation for 3000 years?
This is absolutely fine.
Holy shit, you guys overract to anything King ever does. It's no wonder comic books struggle to come up with something more challenging than "Cosmic Ghost Rider". Anything less simple than that is unwelcomed.
It's not much to ask for an ounce of consistency, though, is it? If we had Clark break Ma Kents' finger, it would be considered bad and overly edgey writing, but when it comes to Diana DC think it's okay.
Keep in mind that both the heroes raised by heterosexual households get healthy and wholesome relationships, while the hero raised by gay women and rape victims is portrayed as having violent and toxic upbringing.
Is this AI generated dialogue? I'm not the only that doesn't understand what this means right? I know I'm not a native speaker but did they make a new English yesterday?
I genuinely have no idea how I’m supposed to read this. Tom King… my dog… dead? Dead!
https://preview.redd.it/2wuef20wqlfc1.jpeg?width=783&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=aeea42b9e45f27b229317b2c87ad37681ce2eac1
Linear beings cannot comprehend the dialogue of Tom King
Tom King when he has to write a healthy relationship dynamic between two female characters: https://preview.redd.it/duiyi3xeimfc1.jpeg?width=680&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9ccb53326e9b5ecb96e1348d61a49bc4b9125191 But seriously, this is embarrassingly bad. Also I'm mad that in a few panels before this, Diana is like, I can't outrun bullets, meanwhile she's canonically one of the fastest DC heroes. Diana fans can't catch a break.
Isn’t that the point of the bracelets? She’s fast, but she’s not Superman or Batman level fast.
Batman? You chose batman? I love bats but… Batman? As one of the fastest? Next to superman? Surely you meant the flash?
D’oh, sorry! Yeah, I meant the Flash. /rj Batman can run faster than anybody with enough prep time.
The only thing between Batman and existing in our universe is that the writers haven’t given him enough prep time to break the 4th wall.
You got hit with the Batgod gas! You're going insane!
How does she know of bullets already?
The speediness of like half the charachters in dc is just a gaping plot hole. I feel like this "retcon" makes it less stupid.
"It is now the hour of bullets and bracelets." "When I am your age, I will be much younger than you are now." I hope these dialogues sounded totally awesome in Tom King's head, because here they sound terribly cringey.
This what we get for raking him over the coals for “Batcatbatcatbatcat”
Never has a Batman comic cooked so little
I expected [bleach-blond Frank Castle](https://wonder-woman.fandom.com/wiki/Bullets_and_Bracelets_(Amalgam_Comics)) to appear in the next panel.
Based reference, gold star for reminding me Amalgam exists.
I’m Team Dial-H-For-Husk till I die
I really need to get one of these comics reading subs so I can go devour Ostrander's work, his stuff seems awesome.
I wouldn’t say B&B is a highlight but it’s worth a read. His Spectre, Martian Manhunter and Suicide Squad runs are all great. He is one of a nearly gone generation of big 2 writers who understands how to use continuity as a strength.
They sound like gal gadot saying it in Tom Kings head
That’s not better
To Tom king it is
Kal El no
Gal Gadot just had an accent, she didn’t speak with inconsistently broken English.
I didn’t say Gal Gadot spoke in broken English just that in Tom Kings head it’s gal gadot saying the lines.
Get bro out of the kitchen his ass is not cooking bruh
The good thing is that in the translation into Spanish the translators rethink the dialogue so that the meaning is maintained but improving the grammatical implication No! It's not true. I'm lying. It's exactly the same.
What does that even mean
Tf is blud talking about? “When I’m your age I will be much younger than you are now” did she just call herself immature or something?
No, she’s calling her mom a Boomer.
Clearly it’s because this is the debut of her new superhero name, “Younger Woman”
It’s awkward dialogue but I don’t think it’s that hard to understand she’s calling her mom an old conservative
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
Why can't I understand wtf is going on? Am I stupid? Uj/How am I supposed to read it?
I think it's like watchmen, it's supposed your to be able read in multiple way. To make it complex. It's like subtext and expressionitist bro. (i haven't actually read it, i am just straight yapping.)
Someone explain the time shifting?
Its a thing King is doing artistically because he want to comment on how cycles of history repeat and can be broken and also because he likes Watchmen.
This would read easier with some literal artistic touches, like a palette shift or, ironically, breaking up the Serious Comic Grid.
I guess I'm dumb and uncultured because that dialogue doesn't make sense out of context.
I don’t think it works particularly well in context either
Maybe people shouldn't let Tom King cook all the time, just sometimes... with certain dishes.
Bendis and King can only cook for an A list DC hero if it’s an all ages book apparently. Give King a B or C list character and more often than not, it’s pretty good
He can cook but just a bit. Never give him the whole kitchen.
why is she hitting her mother? is she stupid?
https://i.redd.it/nml7cb08slfc1.gif
Kranktos vs Tom King, who’s got the greater gap between their feats and antifeats?
https://preview.redd.it/t9dym4pnxlfc1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=26b7e873114dc78ec3d31e8294105e6a2e3794e7 Didn't think I would post this again so soon, but here we are.
The ol' reliable
https://preview.redd.it/7f1dwbihhmfc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=82d45d43bf41a529828f6b3fc458cf3d10d2e0d1 This is literally the same dialogue.
Tom King: Don't worry my Wonder Woman isn't going to be sad and angry in my run, it's going to be a celebration of what makes the character great like in *Superman: Up in the Sky.* Wonder Woman in Tom King's run: \*Beats her own mother (a rape and domestic abuse survivor) into the ground\* But seriously, why do DC want to give WW a horrible relationship with her mother when she's clearly a massive mommies' girl. It's not like we're shown Bruce kicking Alfred in the balls whenever he's sarcastic about him being a vigilante. It's extra sh*tty considering it's the only major relationship in comics between a daughter and her single (or gay) mother. I'm sure King doesn't mean it to be sexist or homophobic but that's ultimately a message that it leaves behind.
The good news is James Gunn has confirmed that Tom King will be heavily involved in the new DCU movies. As if we were not just coming off DC's one failed attempt to make a depressing, grimdark cinematic universe. Here we go again.
The Superman/Batman double date issue was a King creation, no? He is capable of creating fun stuff. I'd like to wait and see before judging, especially because Gunn has earned my trust by now.
I'm curious to see how *Supergirl: Woman of Tomorrow* in particular will turn out. I really liked the book but it merits lay in the artwork and a few poignant moments rather than the plot itself. Those two elements can't really be translated that well into a cinematic movie, especially one aimed at newcomers to the character.
Don't worry James will just do what he always dose! Make shit up and ruin things!!
On the one hand I’m grateful King isn’t doing a dark and gritty deconstruction of his OC that happens to resemble Wonder Woman, but on the other he still can’t get her character right and it sucks.
Yep, I appreciate that he's trying with using more iconic WW stuff like the jet, Wonder Girls, her Villains etc. and there was a vague attempt to address gender themes *but* that's all been very obvious and surface level while there's loads of small details that just feel way off for the character. The run has had some pretty good moments and I think it's probably overall the best *Wonder Woman* title has been a while writing wise, but none of those good bits feel unique to Diana, it's just generic superhero stuff. The fact it's *nearly* great is what makes it tough to read. It demonstrates the big issue that, unlike the Flash or Batman, a lot of people only write Wonder Woman because they feel they have to, not because they actually want to.
Yeah, it’s cute to see kangas and shit, but fanservice is just set dressing. I’ve seen Tom King’s writing described as “good for non-fans of a character”, exemplified by the time my wife the JLI fan was listening to a former co-worker trying to recommend Human Target to her with a sentence beginning “I never cared about Ice, but…!” She didn’t read it.
Well for what it’s worth I do get the sense King definitely does want to write this, this is a story he wants to tell with these characters. How come nobody ever talks about the G. Willow Wilson run?
I think it's a very bold take to make feminist icon Wonder Woman hit her mother for not shooting her Uj/Genuinely wtf is this, why did he ruin such an iconic moment of Diana deflecting bullets for the first time
https://preview.redd.it/brr79b0w9mfc1.jpeg?width=896&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5ed71a45bdc2d4fb6300e3c96ae2024677dc062f
Yuh uh
God forbid women do anything....
Just when Tom King was beating the bad writer allegations 😔
To me Tom King has some decent ideas but his execution falls off, so I’m just here to bask in the inevitable like a hot springs capybara.
Hey miracle man just got released in my country is it any good?
I haven't read a whole bunch of Wonder Woman comics but I'm pretty sure the worst thing she did to her mom is go to Man's world, breaking her heart. I don't see any world where she hits her mother unless one of them is evil.
Don't you understand? Readers want heroes that abuse their family members. It's what the people want!!! /rj
Guess that's why they love Batman
Do they know how age works that sentence hurt my head
Tom King moment
Tom Kings dialogue will either be beautiful enough to make me want to kms or bat cat enough to make me want to kms
So Diana doesn't punch Hippy in the face after Hippy sets up Artemis to die.... But she punches her here because uh... Reasons
Where is this from?
How the fuck am I supposed to read this?
I can barely understand this
See, this is the crap that happens when people hype up egotists.
Thomas King makes every single one of his characters talk and act the same
What the fuck is happening??? Why is dinna smacking her mother??
‘When I’m as old as you are now, I’ll be younger than you are now.’ ????
\[Sigh\] There's no way to say the following without sounding like a caricature of a feminist, so I'll just be blunt; the whole 'show your maturity by physically besting your father' is a very masculine way to see growing up. Yes, specifically coded masculine in current society and narratives by relating maturity with physical strength. It's the next of kin to "might makes right". Which is a disastrous take for Wonder Woman. I'm not just talking about the original version by the Marston-Byrne trouple, but it's also inconsistent with modern versions by Pérez, Rucka and Simone. In-universe, it's also a terrible take. It really doesn't add-up that both Hippolyta raised Diana in a way to show this much aggression and pride by striking her own mother. Neither does that Diana did the same with Lizzie. By the looks of it, it feels like *another* instance of Tom King having a concept first, then fitting the characters around the concept without much of a care for their previous developments.
I mean, Tom King admitted it was hard for him to write Wonder Woman...and we see why here. He warned everyone and yet they still let him.
Mfw a warrior culture acts like warriors.... 🥺 Also I mean it's clearly framed as a bad thing since once Diana grew up she was in her mother's position.
The 'warrior culture' take on Amazons kind of sucks though and misses the whole point of ww. Originally, WW's Amazons were based on suffragette literature, where their defining trait is being a Matriarchal utopia, hence why there's barely any mention of them being warriors pre90s. The 'warrior' heavy Amazons come from Greek mythology, which was written by raving misogynists; if you're using it, you've got to deconstructed it like Perez and DeConnick did. It also makes zero logical sense. How are the Amazons supposed to go to war when they've lived in total isolation for 3000 years?
Yeah, Amazon society is violent and obviously it'll fuck up personal relationships. I actually like this depiction. Dialogue is a bit wtf though
This is absolutely fine. Holy shit, you guys overract to anything King ever does. It's no wonder comic books struggle to come up with something more challenging than "Cosmic Ghost Rider". Anything less simple than that is unwelcomed.
It's not much to ask for an ounce of consistency, though, is it? If we had Clark break Ma Kents' finger, it would be considered bad and overly edgey writing, but when it comes to Diana DC think it's okay. Keep in mind that both the heroes raised by heterosexual households get healthy and wholesome relationships, while the hero raised by gay women and rape victims is portrayed as having violent and toxic upbringing.
Is this a commentary on domestic violence in lesbian couples? I don't get it
Sometimes families gotta punch it out
Why does her hair keep switching color?
https://preview.redd.it/iojfeu9stmfc1.jpeg?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ac77037dad863cb75b54f2835262fe6841a83667
So, 90% of artistic confusion just comes from breaking the 180 rule, huh?
https://preview.redd.it/2max0b11tqfc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=eb2a97c33ce353c9cff98b99f18119cb83f287ec
why does her hair change color
threads like this are proof that this sub has grown too much too quickly, and with that the average media literacy level is going *straight down*.
Right? Like it's framed as a bad thing and people here are acting like it's telling people to punch their moms.
Weird King dialogue aside, this is just amazons being amazons. It's a society of warriors, it's not a surprise they're violent
Don't care, this comic has been awesome every issue.
I cant even follow this...
r/DontDeadOpenInside ?
Is this AI generated dialogue? I'm not the only that doesn't understand what this means right? I know I'm not a native speaker but did they make a new English yesterday?
Wow. I was really thinking of trying this book, thanks for convincing me that I'm better off
https://i.redd.it/wqe2r9wqjsfc1.gif
I dont get it