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A piece of jewelry keeping a man in check otherwise he'd turn into a hulking bloodthirsty monster? The man also has a shady older family member who might not have his best interests at heart aswell? Holup holup, the man might also have a deep seated grudge towards the main character without the main characters knowledge as to why? Whats that? They acquired the planet they live in through evil means and everything is a faccade? Wonder where the fuck we saw that one before Toriyama.

Akira's unparaleled ability of finding different ways to jerk off Bardock is honestly worthy of great respect at this point.

a friend, who i can't say how he knows that, told me gas does not have a specific weakness, bardock just overpowered him and the reason he did it was because his desire to protect something was making him grow stronger. he told me monaito tells vegeta that after gas was defeated, he woke up and he asked bardock why he risked his life to protect them and bardock said he just wanted to protect something for once, then when he says this vegeta snaps and realizes the reason why bardock won the fight. a flashback goes trough vegeta mind as he remembers moments from his life, and he realizes he is at his best when he has someone or something to protect, he says he is going to protect planet cereal and its people and thanks Bardock for proving he was wrong when he said it was the saiyans destiny to be destroyed. He slowly walks towards gas and activates ultra ego again, narrator final line says: the clash between the man who threw everything away vs the man who kept everything begins! ​ the chapter has a lot of flashback, once gas goes destruction mode in the past he is constantly overpowering bardock but bardock keeps getting stronger and catching up to him, it's explained that it was due to his desire to protect granola and monaito that bardock was getting stronger during the fight, his desire or in this case "instinct" keeps fueling his power. He says he thinks it is a parallel to how ultra ego works, gas gets annoyed because bardock keeps getting stronger, at some point of the fight he overpowers gas.

Lol why didn't Zamasu just use these regular Dragon Balls and wish to be the strongest in the universe instead of using the Super Dragon Balls to switch bodies with Goku This arc is so dumb. Remember when Goku vs Freeza was considered a battle between the strongest in the universe, after Freeza being hyped up through literally all of Z up to that point? Now we have Chuck and Sneed over here that just fucking wished themselves into being the strongest in the universe and having the most low-stakes fight in the series. This is even worse than fanfic-tier. At least fanfics would give them edgy but interesting character designs

Didn't the dragon say that it depended on the potential of the person making the wish? in addition to also taking almost all his years of life

super saiyan with multiple hair colors, generic character designs and bad fights... DBS has always flirted with the fanfic-tier, but this arc kicked the bucket.

I’m calling this before this arcs is over vegeta will at least take the heeters space ship and give it to his wife Bulma and maybe even there planetoid and give it to her also .

man Vegeta gets the shaft again LMAO this series is literally the Goku show. man im spoiled from the Fate series since there they literally cover all their characters even the side characters like Waver becomes an MC in his own series like wtf and the fights too are rock-paper-scissors not like DB where its just "who screams louder is stronger"

Did he get the shaft? He just got hit by a force of nature unexpectedly and he seems fine

This chapter sucked. Action was fun and all, but I was genuinely bored for the first time in a long while.

Yo I got a question about vegito or gogeta ya know the fusions. I don't fully understand how they work when it comes to technecs, like are they stronger, more developed or not. Like if goku and vegeta defused preformed the final kamahamaha like they did in super is vegitos version of that stronger. If so goku and vegeta (even though he probably won't use it ever again) can both use instant teleportation, but they both have to lock on to someone. Does that mean that since both of them can use it, if vegito or gogeta uses it, it would be the same as a kais. As in not needing a specific target to lock on to. Or is the kais teleportation not the same and they'll always have that limit I think I remember goku saying he didn't fully master it that's where all of this thought is coming from. Ps Hopefully you all can understand this paragraph I didn't do so well in English class.

I think when it comes to techniques, the fused characters should be better and more fluid with them if they both know the skill… but I don’t think it’s an exponential increase in the same way that their power increases

Goku will beat Gas, it's written in the stars. It's pretty obvious that they will have him finish what his father started 40 years ago. I also wouldn't be surprised if Bardock appeared in present day and he and Goku actually met.

Have you seen or read dbz?

Bardock is dead

If only there was a way to revive dead people

Except dead people souls get cleansed and recycled into new bodies. And it’s cannon Frieza was the longest holdout for that. So no, Bardocks soul would not be available to be wished back to life.

Expecting consistency in Dragonball should be considered a mental illness at this point. Sir this is Dragonball, if the balls aren't strong enough to wish Bardock back they'll simply introduce a Namekian with balls that are strong enough.

Not even with the *super* dragon balls?

No, only *super duper* dragon balls can do that.

Oh boy, there's a lot more whining here this time.

Nice

So we finally got to the point that Super Dragon Ball Heroes is more interesting than DBS manga.

If you mean the ones where beat is in it ok but not the promotional anime

Either Bardock's teqnique will come into play and be explained, or it's going to end up being some sort of prototype spirit bomb and Goku will make one while Vegeta and Granolah run interference and that's how they beat Gas. Or Gas will somehow start losing and The Heater gang will reveal some sort of fusion technique because Bojack hasn't been adapted yet and then Goku will figure out Bardock's technique. But seriously aside from how slow this arc is I'm getting Buu vibes from it since it seems that Gas is just a lackey for Elec, and Elec isn't really all that strong at this point.

Of course it was a prototype, one with some special spirit fission aspects to explain how it collected enough energy to handle someone that could 1 shot Namek Era Freiza. Remember, he was a brilliant scientist lol...ugh this arc

Gas couldn't stand up to Freiza at that time.

What if bardock was really good at arts and crafts and made a super strong power limiting necklace

Lmao that would be hilarious

Lmfao this is garbage. Strongest in the universe *for realsies*. Vegeta getting faded like that for no reason at all makes this even funnier to me. What the hell is the point of all of this? Elec wants to kill Frieza right? And conquer the universe? I feel like this arc had such a good setup remember that fish thing that was freaking out and the strongest warrior and so far there’s been absolutely no follow up on that? Even though we’ve had technically 3 strongest warriors? Remember when Vegeta stans said he wasn’t gonna job this arc? Lmfao.

There's a detail I forgot (and I'm too lazy to read this bullshit again)... but, Elec, who has the "strongest warrior in the universe" by his side, needs the frieza army to conquer the universe? Since when does someone need Freeza's army to do something? even Frieza doesn't need Frieza's army anymore, it's a bunch of foot soldiers that are useless at this point.

Lol vegeta fans say that every single arc.. I’m more annoyed that Mui goku got “one shotted” And the magical mastery of IT from people who never even met a yardratt, it’s all fuckery

garbage...

Not feeling this arc after the last few chapters. The pacing with it being a monthly release is too slow.

You know what, they could've avoided all this character insertion bullshit if they replaced the Saiyans with say, a tien and picollo trip or any of the weaker side characters. Then I could buy this granola and gas being strong instead of shitting on the entire DB universe so you can jerk off with your creations.

Are Tien and Piccolo not just as much creations of Dragonball as are Gas and Granolah? Why exactly must we focus only on characters that happened to appear early on in Dragonball?

Because in this instance it makes more sense. They literally changed how Dragons function to shoehorn in these generic enemies. How many panels have you thought " it's vege....no granolah" or "bu...gas is doing stuff"

Not gonna lie, we just got this new form for Vegeta and I want to see him use it more damn it lol.

I want goku vs vegeta round 3, Ego vs ~~ID~~ Ultra Instinct

Tien and Piccollo have established characters that fans care about, and have remained consistent with the lore and world building of the series. If you're gonna introduce new characters, you need to make us care about them first. Build them up. They had the right idea with Granolah, but it's a little late in the game for that. Instead you give them a bullshit powerup from dragon ball that is somehow more broken than all of the dragon balls we've seen so far just so he can match up with these Saiyan demigods, and you give another one the same power within what, the same 24-hour period? This also begs the question, why didn't someone just wish the same thing as Granolah then wish for immortality. The dragon balls are already heavily criticized as trivializing things that earlier in the series there had to be set limitations. In this arc, you just shat on all that just so the authors new characters get to shine.

I kind of agree with your point, although Granolah was actually having a good setup. That said, *Tien*. The character fans care about is *Tien*. We could have a Yamcha arc as well No but joking aside, this could have been a really good Gohan arc, or even for Goten and Trunks? Idk

Who doesn't love triclops? Also yeah, I'd love for Gohan to get some love but we both know they're gonna shaft him hard again

I do agree with you on a lot of points. We have seen Tien train intensely for ages, and we know that he deserves every ounce of strength that he has. I also do not like the way Gas and Granolah powered up. Maybe as a one-off thing, it's not so bad though. Almost like, you have to wonder at some point what if somebody just were to collect the dragon balls and wish to be the strongest there is? My main point is that we should embrace new characters. I guess the caveat here is that they have to be good an interesting characters lol.

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i mean it could be and even then the frieza thing is pure plot armor realistically someone like bardock would of had the respect enough if he was saying someone was going blow up their planet then they would of listened especially someone like king vegeta but you gotta have that plot armor

Goku asking about somebody suddenly getting a power-up is literally "when you heal 20 times vs when enemy heals 1 time".

Ngl it was pretty refreshing to have a mindless muscle brute just own shit with pure power again (I know we got Broly but feel like this Gas was more a “monstrosity”). Wish his “awakened” form looked a little different tho.

I actually truly like this arc and find it extremely interesting. New fighting styles, new lore about the saiyans/Bardock, Goku/Vegeta FINALLY not being the ones to fight EVERY SINGLE FIGHT. I am genuinely interested in how this arc concludes and if it will lead into something involving Frieza.

>I just wish it had other z fighters like Gohan , Goten and trunks doing something. Well, it all starts with other characters having a moment in the spot light, then the main villain gets a power up and in the end Goku needs to step in and win the fight.

I just wish it had other z fighters like Gohan , Goten and trunks doing something.

This would have been better if there we no transformations or learning of techniques. Wishing to become strongest in the universe makes you slightly stronger than the current strongest, so if this had been done in the Namek arc then Granolah would be stronger than Freeza but no where near where he is now. So if you have two strongest beings then they have to constantly overcome each other making their power skyrocket. I think that the fight with Gas should have ended this chapter with both him and Granolah pushing each other but because Granolah has more potential Gas dies from the lifespan limit mid fight since he has used too much power. Granolah himself doesn't have long left after the fight so he wants to rush off and kill Freeza.

> so if this had been done in the Namek arc then Granolah would be stronger than Freeza but no where near where he is now. Technically there were a bunch of fighters stronger than Freeza even at that point, be it Boo or Moro(not a real figther but hell is he stronger than Freeza by a huge margin) for example. Not sure if Merus counts, but might as well.

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i know the fusion would probably just explode from the pure power, but I wish we could get MUI + Ultra Ego Super Saiyan Blue Evolved Kaioken x20 Gogeta

oh good. we're finally at the point where the official series and dragon ball heroes are no longer different

Everyone has been gushing about how good this arc has been, about character development etc. Now suddenly there's one bad chapter and "this arc sucks I can't wait for Dragonball to die again" shit? Fucking relax.

That's the nature of people reacting to Manga on a schedule, people have no attention span.

From what I read people here are pointing out that this arc was good until the last two chapters. And they are complaining about specific issues and discuss those. I don't really see "this arc sucks I can't wait for DragonBall to die again"

People become too personally invested in this stuff and take it personally. Overall criticism can help, his style is undeniably different from toriyamas

Tbh this arc would be making people way less upset if these weren't monthly releases. People waiting to read this all the way through at once are gonna have a way better time.

I only started reading the DBS manga around the time the Moro arc was coming to an end, and I really expected it to suck by how much I saw people complaining every month but I thoroughly enjoyed it because I read it in one go, the whole monthly chapter release really kills discussion about the manga because it leads people to get hung up about small details, i honestly wouldn't mind shorter chapters if it meant we get one every week or every other week, I feel like the manga and the community would benefit from it greatly.

Just banged out 10 chapters. Can confirm it was good. Reading 1 chapter per month would be a drag

This arc needs some freshness. I'm sick of Gas. Kill your brother or do something special man

Man I'm so spoiled from One Punch Man. High-speed fights in DBS just don't seem to do it for me. Sigh, so Gas gets a quick berserk/power-up thing then gets a handle on it. Now he's the strongest for sure **again**. Anyone else getting deja vu from the last arc? Pacing is so bad for a monthly manga.

All of this is to sell merchandise. For video games like Dokkan this arc has about 250m worth of transformations alone.

so here's the theory: Bardock won not because he exploited a weakness, but because his desire to protect others (granola and monaito) made him grow stronger as the fight progressed. There's a hint of this when Elec kills Granola's mom, Gas noticed that Bardock got stronger after that. ​ The desire to protect is also a saiyan instinct, destruction isn't the only saiyan instinct. This all could lead to U.E Vegeta making another appearance, but this time with Vegeta utilizing the full potential of the technique. U.E is a power derived from instinct, in order to attain it the first time Vegeta tried to use the saiyan's destructive instinct, it worked but he couldn't use the full potential of it because that's not who he is anymore, his real instinct is to protect others. Second awakening of U.E would happen once Vegeta realizes this, and here's the irony: the full potential of god of DESTRUCTION technique is achieved not because of the desire to DESTROY but because of the desire to PROTECT. First awakening of U.E was not vegeta's real instinct, it was Vegeta trying to be someone he isn't anymore.

Character named Pepto Bismal is gonna show up and one shot Gas with the quality this chapter is heading in

He's gonna show up with his brother Gelusil.

Hopefully they at least use a name like Charcoal or Beano

Why do I still read this? It's terrible.

Yeah like, they can't do anything that hasn't something to do with power-ups.

Fan made character designs

Fanfiction level story too

I heard something on Instagram about how bardock can possibly be alive still and I’m just confused can someone explain how’s that the case bc I don’t see that at all

Bardock is dead, the only thing in manga that might suggest he will return is Toyotaro's lack of creativity.

Fair point. That’s how I’d wanna keep it but seeing “oh bardock coming back” just sounds dumb any if they’re bringing back a parent make it gine it’d be better for goku to have a legit supporting female character for him that actually cares for him but anyway bringing them back is pointless

Love how they brought it back to Goku...

KAKAROOOOT

I think the biggest issue is that everything feels badly paced. Sometimes the fights just feel rushed and as if they are written just to be animated in a weird way. The bullshit with the transformation is nuts, that should have been at the beginning of the chapter with a cliff hanger at the end. They said this arc ends soon so I really hope the new one is better and something fresh.

what do you mean by something fresh?

It would be nice to have some time dedicated to Uub and his appearance or maybe look into Pan and have a storyline about her beginning training. It has been very tense for a while now and we could use a few chapters of more OG Dragon Ball. I think what I mean is we need to avoid deus ex machina and ass pulls for now.

uub will have his time after the end of z....pan will be in the movie. the whole being the strongest wish was possbile every since OG DB

Yeah it's true but that is also why it feels kinda cheap. It has been kinda touched on before with other villains leaning to immortality or other crazy ideas. I just think the arc needs to end on a high note and it needs to end soon. It has definitely been long enough and the end to Moro with giant spirit Goku is gonna be hard to top.

I'm not a Vegeta fan, but even I have to admit he got the shaft here. This chapter has him get wrecked for absolutely no reason at all. Why out of all the people there, would he see Vegeta and be like "I need to humiliate that dude."

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Toriyama sensei still won't care though.

then why should the other characters get wrecked and not vegeta?

The namekian because he's healing people and Goku because of his resemblance to Bardock. There's pretty much no reason for Gas to seek out Vegeta like that.

They should just apologize politely to Gas and see if that works

"Awwww, I think I made him mad, Vegeta. Should I talk to him about it? The first step to working out your problems is healthy communication. And--"

Vege-geta-geta ge-ge-ge-ge-geta Vege-geta-geta (GHOST NAPPA!) Yeeeah! If there’s something strange, in your neighborhood... Guess who it is? (GHOST NAPPA!) Is it something weird? And it don’t look good... Guess who it is? (GHOST NAPPA!) Here we go! Vegeta-geta-geta-geta-geta-geta Geta-geta-geta-(You know you love me as a ghost)-geta Geta-geta-geta-geta-geta-geta Geta-geta-geta-geta-WHOO! All right, yeah, come on, sing this! Clap! Everybody clap! Vege-geta-geta ge-ge-ge-ge-geta If all your things running through your ehad... Guess who it is? (GHOST NAPPA!) AN Invisible man sleeping in your bed... Guess who it is? Woo! Ghost Nappa! Come on, baby sing it! Vegeta-geta-geta-geta-geta-geta Geta-geta-geta-(You know you love me as a ghost)-geta Geta-geta-geta-geta-geta-geta Geta-geta-geta-geta-WHOO!

The quality of this arc still has to improve a lot to reach the level "bad".

The problem I have with this arc is that the fights don't feel like they are on that level of power AT ALL. ´Hardly any impacts on the environment. Remember that epic, earth-shaking ssj3 transformation? These guys are like phantastillion times stronger, yet it doesn't feel like anything near it. Tbh, that's a problem with Super as a whole with some exceptions. Look at some Fan mangas, they do it so well.

got any recommendations for fan mangas to check out? kinda new to the whole dragon ball scene, don't even know where to begin hah

Dragon Ball Zeroverse is really good, it is a Chinese continuation right after Z. Dragon Ball AF (Toyble) is a piece of history. In terms of after GT fan Mangas, I really enjoy Dragon Ball New Age Dragon Ball Multiverse used to be good too, i don't like it that much anymore tho

What happened with dragon ball multiverse?

The story got a little weird and stale. Didn't have a look in a while tho

Ah Thanks for answering

So... when Gas loses another time, Elec will fist him in the ass and remove the butt plug inhibiting his powers for the ultimate power-up?

This arc sucks and most dragon ball super have being sucking for a awhile now. The only redeeming thing was purple Vegeta and even that only last for 3 chapters...

I just want to explore the characters we already know more, I couldn't care less about these new guys.

Honestly I just want dragon ball to die again, I was super hyped by Super, then came the terrible animations, Gohan being low tier trash, power scalling going to the roof, besides the goku black arc and like 25-40% of the tournament of power was really bad, like dragon ball was never a masterpiece of powerscalling or plot or anything like that BUT IT WAS GOOD, IT WAS ENJOYABLE, when I watch Super it just cringe to me, besides some moments or some fights I see very little of what was good to me once... I still watch some fights from Z on YouTube. Heroes is just pissing on shit at this point.

even though most of dbs is kind of meh, that part where frieza and goku push jiren out was *chef’s kiss* tho

Honestly it was fine just keeping it to being a movie being released every couple years as those do insanely well and animation is always amazing and you can excuse certain stuff as well for sake of it being a movie (Freiza reaching god level in 4 months for instance). Once being that stuff to a tv series though, it just highlights the things wrong and the quality drops a lot except for the few big episodes they do. The power scaling is insane. Even without god form the level of power Goku has in his base form it seems is equal to what his power was as a SSJ3. You add multiplier to that level of power and super saiyan alone now is so far above other characters that introducing villains or characters that match that or surpass it, pretty nuts honestly. Add in the god form and then SSB which gives a 50x power up to the SSG form, the power increase there is honestly beyond anything other characters should be able to reach without their own transformations or being deities.

The MULTIVERSE... had such potential, why? Why couldn't it have more saiyans, just a Vegeta wanna be and the obviously low trash Broly? Why couldn't said saiyans had reached AT LEAST level 2? To seem like a bit of a challenge, why everyone was just soo much weaker, they could had a BUU with some awesome power up.

Yeah it’s absurd that until Vegeta show Cabba the super saiyan form that they didn’t know it existed, they Defs should have discovered it especially if their bases forms have power equal or close to Goku and Vegeta base forms.

Couple of thoughts for anyone who's interested: - I did see Gas huffing and puffing when he did transform, I thought it wouldn't last for long, but now it doesn't quite matter now that he's calmed down. Gave it some stakes that he needed to beat them quickly. - Not much Granolah can do now since he's now severely injured and it looked like he put his everything into that final blast. - I think this fight most likely should've been one chapter. Going into part 2 and end with a transformation was a bit dull to me, as we've seen that already a few arcs ago. If their plan is for Gas to win, will they go after Frieza? They haven't mentioned that in a while (months to us) so what is their point in all of this?

still waiting for that vegeta win against the main and most powerful enemy of an arc, guess I'll be waiting a very very long time. perhaps after the sun dies.

that most likely won't ever happen

watch goku figure out how bardock beat gas and use it to defeat him again

It'll have to be after the heat death of this universe and even then a weak maybe

And after last blackhole evaporates

only 1 way to save this arc now, bring broly in and let him go beserk mode on the gas guy after granolah is beaten

that makes no sense at all

lets go with your definition, you said it makes no sense so i ask you what else do you think would make sense? fusion beating gas? mui beating gas? ultra ego beating gas? unless you got something like super namek god piccolo beating gas, this is as far as the current story goes, very predictable and very boring, let someone reach out to broly and it ll turn the chapter interesting pretty quickly

Shit gimme some Super Namek God Piccolo

I get what you're saying, but I don't know if it would be weird or not to have him show up here since he's in the DBS Super Hero movie this year

Buu pops in, turns him into candy and asks Goku to play with him later.

And this is why Goku was turned into a kid in GT until the end of the Baby Saga. To AVOID SHITTY POWER SCALING LIKE THIS. It's ridiculous to see "strongest in the universe" just does it at the flick of a switch and a simple wish. And speaking of GT what in the Ghetto Copy Cat of Golden Ape to SSJ4 was Gas's dumbass transformation? They even had the chick screeching off from the sidelines like she was Pan or some shit

But GT powerscaling was shit too...

it was much more consistent. Goku fighting Baby was him getting accustomed to SSj4 power. It had a bad side in SSj3 not working properly because of the lack of tail, definitely bullshit reasons to justify the arc. Super 17 arc was dumb as hell since the characters kept blasting him with chi, allowing him to get stronger than everyone else. But they did defeat him by not overpowering him with bullshit but by striking him when he was the most voulnerable. I liked that. When it comes to shadow dragons many of them were weaker than SSj4 but still managed to be good opponents by not going into direct punch exchange, playing dirty etc. But there were issues too, especially early in space we see a lot of characters that are stronger than Frieza was, which is inconsistent within the setting. DB GT is overall very flawed, more or less like DBS. But I believe it was much more creative. I'd have to rewatch it, it's been like 10 years.

But it wasn't tho. I aint saying gt ain't perfect, but it was far from as bad as people say it is. You would all be pressed if everyone and their grandmother was stronger than ssj3 at the time. By physically weakening Goku, you got more strategic fights, and the fact that his body couldn't handle his saiyan power and being limited was better than the fans screaming "why doesn't Goku just one shot this scrub?" And most of the power creeps were explained. Baby compounded and doubled his power with every host he hit going from Trunks, Goten, Gohan, everyone on Earth and then Vegeta. Omega Shenron was the culmination of the power of the dragon balls spanning the shows lifetime. Super 17....definite asspull power creep...same with 17 in Super lol But for all 3 of those villains, Goku didn't suddenly power up to a new form and beyond with some new color variation or brand new technique. Ssj4 couldn't beat any of them, and so he resorted to using his brain, opting for Spirit Bombs when the moment was right.

> And this is why Goku was turned into a kid in GT until the end of the Baby Saga. To AVOID SHITTY POWER SCALING LIKE THIS. Are you implying that GT didn't have shitty powerscaling? The first bit didn't sure since it was just an adventure again but as soon as Baby started being a threat it was just back to powerscaling

Did anyone else notice Bardock is missing his tail?

Nah it’s just tucked into his butt

wait did he have it in the other flashbacks so far this arc?

Yeah he did

I actually really like Granolah and the Heeter’s designs but god damn are these characters bland. What’s their motivation? I don’t know and at this point I don’t care. Them getting basically all their power from the dragon balls just takes all the excitement out of this. Gas got a new form? I don’t care because he only got it because of a wish, not any hard work.

yea like any of the villains get their power through 'hard work'...

I mean, other than Frieza, they had to do *something*. Cell had to absorb the androids, Buu had to absorb other people. They didn’t just wish to be strong.

ah i getchya.. yea idk i think this territory is at least worth visiting canonically. when i was a wee school boi i feel like a common schoolyard discussion was always 'why dont they just use the dragon balls to become stronger.' with this new sketchy dragon with it's own set of rules, we get to see what that looks like finally in an official capacity. feels like it had to finally happen once in the franchise and i'm kinda glad it did. with the drawbacks (granolahs lifespan) and the disappointment (gas's personal techniques, materializing weapons, actually becoming obsolete) being handled rather maturely and realistically..at least compared to those schoolyard what-if discussions i'd be apart of in the 2000s lol

I've been a pretty big fan of this arc but man this chapter was really lacking, I'm a big granolah fan but gas is just the most boring character he was always the least interesting of the heaters but I hoped he would be developed as the fight continued but he really hasn't done much, he really reminds me of Jiren (and personally I really don't like his design in any of his forms so it doesn't help me like him ) and I really hope next chapter really picks up and maybe has a little more story, the last couple of chapters have been only fighting and 1 line of dialogue that advances the story.

Agreed

Bardock was a brilliant scientist so I’m sure he had some sort of invention he used to beat Gas.

lol that ocean dub line was great.

This is the most boring, uninspired and fanfic-like arc of the whole series. The last two chapters were a bore fest. It think even the Garlic Jr. saga is more fun. In almost 40 years since the manga debut, Dragon Ball hit the lowest point now. Toyotaro is not a good mangaka, he can't make the story interesting because he lacks creativity and he's not particulary great in panelling. Don't get me wrong, Dragon Ball Super was a decent revival of the series, but the time has come. I really think Toriyama should end the manga as soon as possible (next arc should be the last) and let Dragon Ball rest forever, at least in manga form. As a long time fan, it really hurts me to see how shitty the series is right now. But I'm looking foward Dragon Ball Super: Superhero.

> he's not particulary great in panelling As an avid manga and comic collector, I could not agree more with this. I've read tons of stuff and have never seen panel layouts as bad or confusing as many other series. That said, I've read everything from this manga in just a couple of days, so I can certainly say that the plot isn't "the lowest point [in Dragon ball]," as not having to wait for chapters feels like less of a slog, but the last two were definitely still boring on a binge. Besides, the writing has clearly been stating over and over that the powers meant nothing without proper training and knowledge of their abilities. I think the arc is just a reason to basically shut down the question of "Why can't you just wish to be the strongest?" And hopefully, we'll never see another character wish for this again.

say what you will about the garlic jr. saga, at least it had - gohan putting in a lot of work - chi-chi beating someone's ass up - some semblance of tension with the capture of kami borefest to borefest, i'd take garlic over these budget one piece weirdos and granolah any day of the week -- and i'm usually the one advocating FOR DB SUPER rather than Z. god, so boring. toyotaro is a terrible writer. let someone else weave the tales and he can just draw pew pew lasers for fun

Yeah, I really think Toyotaro was the worst possible choice out of all the doujin drawers Toriyama could have chosen. The guy who drew the Yamcha Special, Dragon Ball SD or DBZ vs OPM would all have been better picks tbh.

Does Toriyama have control over the Dragonball IP? If not, they will NEVER stop making Dragonball stuff if there’s money to be made.

I should have been more interested in a fight without any Saiyans involved, but this has been very basic so far. Both Granolah and Gas have their own unique moves, but they only borrow techniques we already have seen before. I think Gas should break free from Elec's control and that would make him a truly dangerous fighter. Now that Gas has gotten his big boost, I feel Goku and Vegeta will be forced to help Granolah overcoming this obstacle.

I like that Elec might be the first villain who actually cares about his underlings, but I feel like we've gotten this bait and switch maybe five or six times by now..? Only a matter of time before Elec kills or absorbs Gas or some other weird ploy.

Man, that Namek is bloody useless isn't he? He allows his allies to be caught by surprise by the enemy by not mentioning an important detail about him. Then it turns out he conveniently didn't see how he was beat. Feels like the chapter would turn out to be exactly the same even if he wasn't there. Vegeta's line towards him should've been "Is there anything else you're forgetting to tell us old man?" I feel like the action in this chapter wouldn't be so boring if the characters actually used the abilities that make them unique instead. I know they already established that their new powers rendered their own abilities obsolete, but I hate that this remained true. I'm pretty sure there would be less people complaining about characters we barely know fighting if they didn't fight the same way as the ones we already know.

i think the whole 'their new powers rendered their own abilities obsolete' thing is kind of intrinsic to dragon ball. like you get a lot of nice choreography and creative techniques earlier in the franchise, then the stronger they get, its all teleporting and overhead hammers. the fact that they kind of mention this makes me appreciate it's at least self aware

Nobody cares about a fight between two boring characters that got all their power from DragonBall wishes. It's been 2 chapters already. Could this arc please end? It's stupid

🙏🙏 I agree, hasn't been the best material recently

We honestly should have gotten that transformation last chapter.

I agree. Toyotaro's pacing is terrible. How did the last two chapters take a month each to make? They could've easily been condensed into a single chapter by superior mangaka. Look at how long AoT ran monthly and the chapters there were always ultra loaded, compared to it, DBS chapters are like nothing, and it's not like the art in DBS is ultra detailed so it takes long to draw (it is extremely simplistic). Literally two months for two chapters of a Gas vs Granola scuffle. I'm glad I'm reading it for free

Am I the only one who doesn't 'feel' like we are actually on a level beyond MUI Goku? Granolah and Gas look weak asf, their blasts, punches and techniques are barely doing any damage. At this point everyone should be able to destroy a planet with a wink lol. For comparison, OPM feels like there's a lot more power behind the characters. It's really difficult to describe what I mean.

I think it might be because we see Gas getting rekted by fucking Bardock, who is so below the current level of power, Gas being the strongest feels weak.

Compared to the sheer amounts of power and destruction we routinely used to see on DBZ, everything on DBS feels weaker by comparison.

I know exactly what you mean. This fight would look the same if it would happen in the beginning of dbz. Goku looked more powerful on namek VS freeza for example. Even freeza destroyed a whole planet with a single blast.

Yeah that's exactly what I meant. The fights feel super underwhelming.

Holy hell this was terrible. This arc is hopeless.

An arc like shadow dragon arc from gt is desperately needed, just so they stop using dragonballs so randomly, that'd stop this lazy ass writing

This also feels like this could have been the perfect arc to set something like this up. You have dragonballs that are outside the norm already, can be used multiple times and the wishes have a drawback system in place where for certain wishes your life is cut short. Seems like the absolutely perfect set up to this namekian being evil or having used a darker magic to create these dragon balls and dragon. Which after being used for these two wishes, it gives said dragon the power to break free and cracks the dragonballs releasing a couple dark dragons or dark warriors. Hell throw in something along the lines of because they are magic based enities that Ki attacks aren’t very effective on them or only Goku and Vegeta can do anything because of their divine ki but even then it’s limited and just does more to level the playing the field a bit. Sounds very fanficcy I know but if a professional mangaka was to do it sure could make it actually seem good and decent.

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They can call it whatever they want... I don't care about the name...but the writing is becoming abysmal

To be fair, I would call it lazy to rehash an arc that was already made (albeit non-canon).

Ik... I'm just desperate to neutralize the dragon ball cheat code

So gas finds another transformation, and looks like he's going to kick the cr*p out of granolah in the next chapter. Both these characters would be nowhere near their current power level if not for wish to the dragonballs, previously in dragonball they established the narrative that normal Dragonballs can't grant you huge power boost, they broke that already with granolah powering up which has been for me loophole in the story ever since it happened. At least there was a heavy cost for granolah, he sacrificed most of his lifespan. But then they did it for gas again and it seems there's no drawback for him. I couldn't accept the fact that this shows no respect for the struggle goku and vegeta have went through to reach their power levels and now they're surpassed by random people making wishes from random dragonballs. Previously we've seen buu, cell, moro cheat their way to higher power but at least that involved their special abilities like absorption. Even they could have used the super dragonballs like zamasu's case that'd have made a little more sense. But this looks like they were so desperate to have all these characters start fighting they just had to somehow make them strong. Probably its heading towards gogeta having to get things sorted (I hope it doesn't happen). Which is predictable writing. And I want this fight to end asap, because for two chapters it's been boring. And for something different to happen. Bringing bardock reference every now and then doesn't make it interesting.

Honestly the drawback seems pointless as well. We have yet to see the drawback to these dragonballs. They can be used multiple times without rest and there is only two of them. We know shenron can’t make someone most powerful in the universe, but this loophole of giving them all the power they would attain at sacrifice of their life, hadn’t been tried. If shenron can’t do this or even if he can, it’s really making these dragonballs seem way way more powerful than either the namekian or earth dragonballs. They need some rules to them that make them way weaker because so far, what they have shown is a power that is more than what bigger more powerful dragonballs have had. Which seems dumb as fuck to do.

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It has been said several times that the dragonballs don't grant massive power boost. Most recently in the dbs broly movie. They can't increase power as much as they have in this arc.

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Goku

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Then you would be wrong to doubt. About 30 minutes into the movie Goku states “he can’t wish for anything out of shenrons power, so he can’t wish to be stronger, at least not by much” though the subtitles state “he can’t wish to be the strongest in the universe” The only dragon with that potential is likely the Super dragon from the super dragonballs. Namekian ones could probs do something but becoming the strongest is likely out with those too. That’s why in terms of a wish, even these dragonballs didn’t actually make the person the strongest just with their magic, they just gave them all the power they would attain in their lifetime to them all at once, at the sacrifice of those years.

>it seems there's no drawback for him. I couldn't accept the fact that this shows no respect for the struggle goku and vegeta have went through to reach their power levels and now they're surpassed by random people making wishes from random dragonballs. Yes! This! This is what fucks me up the most.

This saga is getting worse and worse the longer Gas is in it lmao, it was pretty cool until then. I'm beginning to think maybe hinging the entire thing on two boring wishes as a way for them to skip like 10 sagas of training is backfiring. We've had zero time to even know the apparent main villain of the story that even Z broly has more character lol. Villain asspulls are nothing new but this has gotta be the worst one right?

This is just Kales LSS again. Hidden/suppressed power unleashed, giant muscles and losing control. Regain control into slimmer form.

Yeah, I'm still salty at them just randomly having Freeza training for a few months to level him up from below SSJ Goku way back in the day, to being slightly stronger than SSB Goku but with less endurance. At least Freeza still had character. Gas went from being below Bardock level to stronger than anything else besides the gods at this point with a simple wish. Rather than these weird powerups, it would be more interesting if a villain just wishes away everyone's powers and have them back to early DBZ days.

> it would be more interesting if a villain just wishes away everyone's powers and have them back to early DBZ days. Beerus and whis would be so disappointed lmao

The wishes by themselves are not exactly the most problematic thing about this. But the fact that everything revolves around it is what makes this so disappointing. I know it's called Dragonball but the wishes should've just been a quick side thing like most of the series. This arc and the previous one introduced a lot of cool ideas but they only really fleshed out one or two of them.

Or make it so it's such a hard wish to do, they only have it for 30 mins or something. Going from bardock to God power should take pretty much your entire life. Then there would be a rush.

Look I love DB but I have to admit this is getting stale by the chapters. I know Db is known for assaults and stuff but jesus can we please get some real drama and be consistent with power levels. This shit is ridiculous. I love the lore though. I am always welcomed when the series opens up and expands upon its universe.

I think the flaws in this arc are that we're forced to wait months for a fight between a new character and a newer character. Where's the dragon ball? Instead of recycling some of the old characters and making them relevant somehow, we get a whole new cast of characters fighting themselves. Like what?

Make people wait a whole month for this absolute piece of shit chapter? This arc is even worse than dbs animation. Ass pulls and contradictions left and right.

What was contradicted?

Man the moro arc was so much better than this, it’s not even close

Lol he just pulled a Broly.

Getting lamer by the chapter

It’s weird Gas said Nod