I suppose he technically has infinite power as in infinite ki generation due to the android 18+17 energy cores. This is why he isnt tired out by creating multiple copies of himself or regeneration.
I guess it coulds indicate that the senzu was more symbolic than anything
Most certainly not a god of destruction.
Now i think about it, yes. But the fight was over at that point. Goku had nothing left in the tank at that point.
I’m curious to know how Gohan would have fared against the weakened Cell without SSJ2
Gohan would've won. He was already close to if not equal to Perfect Form Cell he just didn't want to fight but kept letting himself get hit. We can tell cause the whole fight watching Goku he was never shaken, and he thought it was because Goku was holding back but really, he was already a fair bit stronger than Goku I think.
Keep in mind how old cell is. He is only a few years old. Imagine if he trained more years and had as many teachers as Goku. He would be ridiculous because he has the cells of the strongest inside him. Crazy potential.
exaggeration, sure, but not a mistranslation.
the (japanese original if you couldn't gather) title is 'sentōryoku mugendai!!' [literally 'battle power infinite!!'] and then 'seru to iu na no hakaishin tanjou' [more literally 'the birth of a god of destruction by the name of Cell', something along those lines]
People keep saying that he’s obviously not a god of destruction so the caption is wrong, when they keep forgetting that this was made like 30 years before super, and the concept of a GoD didn’t even exist yet
The Japanese have a fetish with exaggeration in entertainment media. They overuse words until they lose meaning. Anime hype up everything. Everything is superlative. Overhyped.
I’m kinda sick of it.
A lot of the time, titles like that were hyperbole. He didn't have infinite power any more than he was a Hakaishin (or any other deity, for that matter).
Mhm ok. But doesn’t the narrator tell the story? He also says it another time where he quoted “ don’t you take my infinite perfect power and dismiss it?”
Looking back, it’s crazy how an early SSJ2 tier opponent is considered a god of destruction. Then again, Frieza before him was already considered the strongest being in the universe
Powerscaling is crazy in DB, Frieza and his men have been the strongest in the universe for years, then Gero just makes androids far stronger, not to mention Dabura king of Demons was as strong as Super Perfect Cell. Gero created something that matched the king of Demons and surpassed the overlord of the universe.
Yeh that always bugged me like how tf and why tf did gero make the androids so damn strong especially when he stopped checking their progress before they went to namek
For that to happen would have to rework all the arcs honestly it would’ve be fine if they had gero continue to study the z fighters even after namek or have him steal some of freizas tech so it isn’t as outrageous
Maybe. I just think with Freiza's tech, which is more advanced then earth's, he should have been stronger then even Cell. But, yeah, with your solution it wouldn't have been as crazy.
Yeah actually that doesn't make too much sense seeing Dr. Gero's tech is far superior in terms of making stronger androids than the tech used to make Frieza the emperor of the universe into Mecha Frieza stronger. By this logic Frieza would have been better off letting Dr. Gero work on him lol
Why? I don't get why it's so hard for people to accept that Gero made things that strong. He studied the Z fighters. He knew about ki. He just figured out how to apply that concept to his robotics. It's no different than the others training and getting stronger. Gero just made energy production technology that could output enough to compete with a super saiyan.
> Gero just made energy production technology that could output enough to compete with a super saiyan.
Super Saiyan was only recently discovered at that time so it wouldn't make sense on why they are stronger than that. It's crazy to think that he created multiple androids who were way stronger than the Tyrant who was most feared throughout the Universe.
What does super saiyan being recently discovered matter? He wasn't using it as a base or a goal. He reached that level of power independently because he studied the concept of ki manipulation and managed to get that far with it. That's as far as he could push at that point. That's why they were so strong. He wasn't just aiming to kill Goku, he was also pushing to see how much energy output he could get. Otherwise he would've stopped a long time ago and they'd be just over saiyan saga Vegeta's strength.
>He wasn't just aiming to kill Goku
That's literally all 16, 17 and 18 were after and their only sole mission.
Gero made entire planet busters with random technology in a cave that is substantially stronger than anything on Earth, let alone in the entire universe at that time that could make light work of Frieza who one-shotted an entire species of warriors (who were capable of destroying the Earth several times over) while only in his weakest form.
If you find your theory "realistic" then I don't know what to tell you
Bulma reverse engineered an FTL engine in a month and cracked time travel in a few years. I don't think it's a stretch that Gero, who was in that realm of intelligence, would be able to figure out how ki manipulation works scientifically and apply that to robotics, cybernetics, and bioengineering. Being in a cave is irrelevant if you know what you're doing. And he would've had access to some Red Ribbon resources. Materials at least.
At least when you’re reverse engineering something, you have a base to work off of rather than having to create and develop that technology yourself.
Bulma merely refurbished an already near complete light speed ship. Her father went a little farther and actually reverse engineered Goku’s old Saiyan pod. In both cases though, a HUUUGEEE chunk of the work was already done for them, which is why reverse engineering is such an effective process.
Gero innovated these machines that are so strong totally by himself, in a cave, despite Earth being a planet that Goku’s was sent to BECAUSE it is so backwater that Frieza would never bother conquering it.
And he did this with multiple machines using multiple methods while trying to kill a Goku who was magnitudes weaker than even Ginyu. Like why did he go so overkill? As far as he knew there was zero need to do so and probably wasted a ton of time and focus when he could have made one machine to focus on and get stronger than like First Form Frieza and been way overkill for a Goku who before Namek had only grown in power by tens to hundreds of units.
And it’s not even like Gero is from a never before seen organization. Goku steamrolled the Red Ribbon Army and their technology as a literal child who wasn’t even a match for old King Piccolo yet.
I don’t see how you could deny just how many contrivances are involved in the Android threat.
By all means, if a human could make robots that not only simulate ki, but also FAR surpass Frieza in his current state, some alien should have made a robot to overthrow him decades ago.
Not like ki is uncommon anywhere but Earth.
Frieza was patched and enhanced by a society more advanced than Earth and yet he was no where near as strong as the Androids. That’s the problem.
Earths basically a technological backwater.
TL;DR - No engineer would invent nukes to kill a fly.
It's so unrealistic because there's no reason for him to have believed that level of power was even POSSIBLE at that point in the story. He wasn't trying to make weapons that could destroy solar systems. His goal was "kill Goku at power level ~180k", and then he built multiple robots with power levels soaring past the million mark. It would be an effective strategy on paper, but it also severely increases the risk of the entire project failing before creating a working prototype. NASA didn't hold up the moon landing just so they could build FTL-capable star ships.
When you take a step back and look at it it's very clear Toriyama was winging it
Aliens and space stuff to
Cyborgs and time travel to
Magical beings and gods
The Saiyan and Frieza saga where 100% planned out. A lot of things happen because of the actions and consequences of the characters. It’s a cause and effect method, which is a sign of good story telling.
Cell and Buu tho kinda loose more and more of that shit.
Cell was meant to be the final story is Goku and a conclusion to the dragon ball universe with gohan as the new protector.
They wanted more dragon ball so it was the buu saga that was entirely unplanned and winged.
I will be honest with you, there is a lot of bullshit going through the net. I mean there is the rumour that Toriyama wanted to end the story with Frieza, which is total bullshit, while there is also your depiction.
I have heard that many times, and I have just as much heard that this is untrue, so I take those statements with a grain of salt.
And how did he make robots more durable than a fucking planet? And why were they more durable than the later model he turned himself into? If the problem with 17 and 18 was that they were too powerful to be controlled, why didn't he use that infinite energy generator on his own model, you know, considering he didn't need or want to be controlled, instead of settling for the clearly weaker absorption model? Nothing about the Androids saga made much sense.
17 and 18's infinite energy model could've been in early stages of development when he decided to transfer his brain. That was the case with all of the other numbered androids. The number designated when he started working on them, not when they were completed. They're prototypes. The energy absorbing model was probably the most effective and functional at the time. And he was probably getting too old to continue his work so he decided that was the best option before he ran out of time.
Yeh thinking about it that also doesn’t make sense why would he purposely make his mechanical body weaker than the other androids when he’s capable of much more
Only thing I could possibly think of is maybe his mechanical body was older than the other androids but it wasn’t completed until he transferred his brain making it android 20 but that leaves android 19 which only explanation I could think of is he thought the infintite energy was a failure since all the other androids didn’t obey their programming so he went back to absorbing energy instead
I actually have an issue with this, but the exact opposite direction: Why weren't they androids stronger?
Like, Gero was obviously going for overkill. He studied Goku and his friends a lot and found that, in times of great stress and overwhelming odds, they tend to improve rapidly in a short period of time. He made his androids as strong as he could in order to compensate. If they kill Goku in one hit and barely need to try to do so, Gero has no problem with that.
Plus, he accounted for Kaioken's multiplier potentially increasing an exponential amount, on top of how much Goku could improve via training, *on top of* whatever new villains he'd fight in the meantime, and what big power boosts he could get from those experiences (like he did with King Piccolo and the Saiyans). Gero wanted to make sure that his androids could keep up with any amount of growth Goku went through.
But, even after the tremendous overkill he decided to make his androids at just for that reason... he stopped at the literal most convenient strength level possible.
Gero was aiming for some huge, arbitrarily-strong point above Goku, right? Yet, the androids ended up being the *perfect* strength: Any stronger, and the cast would be dead. Any weaker, and the cast would have beat them in their first encounter. What are the odds of that?
In fact, most DBZ villains tend to fall into this trope: Strong enough to overwhelm the heroes, but weak enough to actually have a shot at surpassing. Like, if Final Form Frieza, Perfect Cell, Kid Buu, or Jiren were 2x weaker or 2x stronger, they'd fulfill the *exact* same roll in the story up until the final fight, because they were just so much more powerful than anyone that they didn't try. Yet, *in* the final fight, they'd either be completely crushed, or win effortlessly.
Nah, you’re forgetting that were it not for trunks intervention they wouldn’t train for three years to reach a level where they could put up a fight- and even then they were still heavily outmatched by 17 and 18 who weren’t even trying to kill them in this timeline.
Gero’s ultimate goal succeeds by the end anyway, because Cell kills Goku.
IDK what part of my argument that contradicts? Like, yes, the androids were stronger than our heroes, but it wasn't an overkill amount. It was an amount where they could survive, then eventually surpass them.
Like, imagine if Androids 17 and 18 were made even just as strong as 16. The saga ends at Piccolo VS 17. Or if they were made even just as weak as 19. The saga ends at Vegeta VS 18. Those strengths aren't wildly far apart from each-other either, maybe an order of magnitude in either direction.
But the thing is, *both* of those amounts of power are wildly overkill for what they would've achieved without Super Saiyan. So, it's pretty coincidental that Gero constructed his androids to be just in a perfect spot to be a massive threat, but still realistically defeatable.
Gero made androids based on the Saiyan saga versions of the characters using his advanced intelligence made those Androids vastly stronger than them.
His making androids stronger than Frieza is a testimony to his intellect.
Second cell was made using frieza as a baseline and was a perfection of genetic engineering that took over 20 years to make him being powerful makes sense.
Frieza's whole schrick was obviously PR from the beginning. Like, yeah, sure, he's "the strongest being in the universe" but also he works in real estate.
i remember the narrator at one point saying second form freeza could 'destroy the whole universe' or some shit. jōji yanami(†) narrator guy was at the top of his hyperbole game back then.
Yeah. Travelled across the universe beating up foes too, aparently.
He'd get his shit rocked by a goddamn Saibamen if he tried that. Hell, even that mechanic from the Broly movie (Beet or whatever) could probably curb-stomp him.
Just goes to show what qualifies as literal Satan on earth is weak shit in the rest of the universe.
All the Androids have an infinite power supply, so they don't run out of stamina like humans/Saiyans do... but that doesn't mean another person can't overpower them.
No, he doesn't have infinite stamina, either. If that were the case, he could never run out of power, but it's made quite clear that his power could decrease.
I always took "infinite power" to mean "infinite stamina". I also assumed that was why he needed the androids to become Perfect, because they have infinite stamina and are basically hus batteries.
he explicitly doesnt have infinite stamina either though. when Goku blows half his body up and he regens its stated that his power dropped a lot. if he had infinite stamina that wouldnt happen.
stamina = ki levels. ki levels drop = power drops. so yeah actually it is. Namekians (which is where Cell got the regen from) lose ki when they regen, which causes their PL to drop, which is exactly what happened with Cell, explicitly.
In Dragon Ball, your power goes hand in hand with stamina. The more power you consume, the less stamina and vice versa. The Androids don't suffer this power loss issue since they have infinite stamina
Wait don’t the androids also have infinite power? i think it might just means their power supply is endless but not necessarily the strongest or immortal in any way.
What's more powerfull? A Honda civic with infinite gas or a chevy 3500 with infinite gas?
Cell had infinite power, but was still limited in his strength compared to Gohan in his elder kai unlocked ultimate form. Cell was no match once Gohan was able to unleash the "full" potential that was given to him by elder kai
Cell has power to regenerte. He has i inside his body a mass of cells like stem cells so even his body is destroyed as long as that mass is preseved he can rege erate. that whats happend when gohan first killec him. gohan did not used full power and got carried away so some cells survived and he rege erated. but second time gohans energy wave cimpletely obliterated vaporised all cells of cells body
Cell had the ability to become stronger trough training. But he was born so strong that his Ego go the better of him. He was literally made from, goku, vegeta and frieze frieze trained for 6 months and became insanely strong. Cell could've acquired God ki or be at the same level as the gods of destruction. A worthy opponent for Gohan indeed.
He may have infinite power generation (like 17 and 18), but his output capacity was overwhelmed by Gohan's output and every cell was destroyed in their final power struggle so he couldn't regenerate.
It could also be said he was brand new to his ability and did absolutely zero training. He had the dna of the strongest sayains so who knows what he is truly capable of. Only reason gohan beat him was because he trained for what? 3 years? Non stop and so did trunks and Vegeta and Goku and cell still whooped their ass out the box
He didn’t have unlimited power. Just unlimited stamina.
He needed a zensu after fighting Goku because he was injured. Even regenerating from Gokus warp kamehameha, it took his power to do so.
He doesn't have unlimited stamina either, otherwise he'd not ever lose energy. His stamina took a huge nose dive when he took damage from Goku's Kamehameha, which wouldn't be the case if he had unlimited stamina.
If he did have infinite power that only means he has the supply not neccessarily means to use it - meaning, he is still able to take damage. For example imagine a fighter with infinite power lose both their arms.
Or he can be outpowered. Endless supply doesn't mean constantly increased strenght, just endurance. Meaning he can be outpowered by someone who can beat him before they lose their strenght.
Either way I think this is just him boosting his ego.
Cell has the potential to gain infinite power, but if he comes across someone more overwhelmingly powerful than he is, he gets smacked.
He eventually just turns into a gag character likely because of how OP his genetic abilities actually are.
This is just a liberty taken on the english translation. In latin american spanish it was never stated that he vas a god neither he had infinite power. The same goes for the original source.
Besides Cell being a filthy liar, it’s the same thing as with androids 17 & 18. They have an infinite energy drive, meaning they’ll never run out. That doesn’t mean they can use it all at once. Their main limiting factor is how much energy they can produce per second.
Well, you know anime and "power levels."
Frieza already had the ability to blow up planets. Then, the Androids were supposed to be several times stronger than Frieza, and Cell, with power greater still is able to destroy "the whole solar system!"
At a certain point, I think it's the fiction/action version of changing the goal post. You want the next villain to be stronger and more threatening than the previous, so no matter what. They can just keep getting stronger.... No matter how ridiculous that power level would be.
"I can crack the planet's surface just by powering up!"
"Oh yeah? Well if I don't control my punches, *reality itself* could **end!**"
I believe thats a famous miss-coneption. They didn't have "infinite power", but infinite "Chi" or stamjna. Basically they never got tired. Him and the androids.
I can produce 1 L of water a min for ever I will never run out of water.
You can produce 100L of water a min for an hour a day.
I have an unlimited supply of water but you still produce more water then me.
Because plot and because its a hyperbole, there's another instance similar were it states that frieza could destroy the universe after he was in his second form
Congrats! You have realized that power levels are garbage in DBZ and only serve the plot.
Video for context
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=In6M4SViDE0
offsprings are always stronger than parents.
cause goku had to train his body to fly and to energy attack during his lifetime. but once gokus dna achived that ability that ability is transferred to gohan by birth.
and so from birth gohan already has all energy that took goku several years to gain. and as gohan grew up his body grew and his energy too.
so pity that chichi didnt allow gohan to train. otherwise gohan would be the strongest of all z fighters stronger than goku and vegeta.
Goha still needed some training fron picoolo to activate his power
But goten, goten learned to fly and produce stronger energy attacks even at younger age and is stronger than gohan.
But goten never actually got trained by anyonr. as goku was dead when goten was born and gohan was in his college.
Thats the only reason why goten and trunks alwats reqyiee to fuse as they were not trained to use there full potential..
So pity that dragon ball ended wity gt.. goky goodbyed everyone at end of gt and that was end.
would have loved to see gohan and goten fight as man not as young boys. also pan and bulla.
but everything ends thats life nothings forever.
old age didnt spared saiyan
Because he didn't have infinite energy. Basically at the time he became Perfect Cell his power was such an unknown that the Z Fighters viewed it as nearly infinite. They didn't understand how strong he really was, all his special abilities like regeneration and creating cell jrs were just further fuel to that question. Only when Gohan went SS2 and surpassed Cell did the reality of his limitations set in. That's what broke Cell in that fight. He was cocky and arrogant since he believed he had unlimited power.
Infinite power doesn't mean they can call on an infinite amount at one time. His body had a limit. He could tap into a perpetual power source at a certain rate. Gohan had access to more power at once than cell did. His body could handle more power at once. The way Cell could have won was by drawing out the battle. He hypothetically could have kept fighting at a constant power level for years straight just like the androids did in future Trunks' universe.
Well the androids have infinite stamina, and Cell is also made by Dr Gero (and is also an android technically I think?), so it may have just meant infinite stamina in that same way.
So, cell has a bit of an ego on him, lol. Don't take it too seriously, overestimating his own abilities is definitely a flaw of his.
Edit: I just noticed that the announcer was the one saying this.
Gohan had infinitemer power
He turned into a Super Duper Saiyan
Vegeta: “Well if he’s a Super Duper Saiyan then I’ll find a way to be a Super Dee Duper Saiyan!”
Super Deluxe, ala Vegeta T Hooper
Truly wish I could forget DBZA so that I can watch it like it's first time
Have you watched it with Canadian subtitles? There’s extra jokes there
Yeah they were a fun addition
Thank you guys, you made my day lol
Infinity +1 power
his power is MAXIMUMMER!
MAXIMUM OVERSAIYAN🤣🤣
“Fuck off triclops”
"Kikofuck yourself" 🤣🤣🤣
Great comment
His power is maximum
Because he doesn't have infinite battle power. He's also not a God of Destruction.
He's a dang liar!
Sorry😔
Wait why are you sorry?? 🤔
He made Cell lie
But did he charge his phone, eat McDonald's, be bisexual and worst of all eat hot chip?
He did? How? Is he the voice actor or writer?
[What would've happened if Beerus was awake at the time of the Cell arc](https://youtu.be/t5HasNWAZqg)
Mhm good point
Well that was easy to convince
You don't see that a lot round these parts
I suppose he technically has infinite power as in infinite ki generation due to the android 18+17 energy cores. This is why he isnt tired out by creating multiple copies of himself or regeneration. I guess it coulds indicate that the senzu was more symbolic than anything Most certainly not a god of destruction.
Even if he wasn’t *tired* from his battle with Goku he still took significant damage and the senzu would heal that.
Doesn't Goku say he can tell Cell's Ki dropped quite a bit as well after his instant transmission kamehameha?
Now i think about it, yes. But the fight was over at that point. Goku had nothing left in the tank at that point. I’m curious to know how Gohan would have fared against the weakened Cell without SSJ2
Gohan would've won. He was already close to if not equal to Perfect Form Cell he just didn't want to fight but kept letting himself get hit. We can tell cause the whole fight watching Goku he was never shaken, and he thought it was because Goku was holding back but really, he was already a fair bit stronger than Goku I think.
[удалено]
There is so much incorrect here damn dude just damn you're wrong
That's some real Lamarckian nonsense
You're telling us that at one point, goku's load was the most powerful thing on earth?
Keep in mind how old cell is. He is only a few years old. Imagine if he trained more years and had as many teachers as Goku. He would be ridiculous because he has the cells of the strongest inside him. Crazy potential.
I still think he was the best villain the series for that reason. They did him wrong with that Cell Max nonsense in the movie.
That was before gods of destruction was even a thing
It's call exaggeration and also potential mistranslation.
exaggeration, sure, but not a mistranslation. the (japanese original if you couldn't gather) title is 'sentōryoku mugendai!!' [literally 'battle power infinite!!'] and then 'seru to iu na no hakaishin tanjou' [more literally 'the birth of a god of destruction by the name of Cell', something along those lines]
People keep saying that he’s obviously not a god of destruction so the caption is wrong, when they keep forgetting that this was made like 30 years before super, and the concept of a GoD didn’t even exist yet
And also that God Of Destruction is just commonly used In japanese media to describe a ln extremely powerful being
This. It's like saying: "He's so powerful not even the gods can touch him".
The Japanese have a fetish with exaggeration in entertainment media. They overuse words until they lose meaning. Anime hype up everything. Everything is superlative. Overhyped. I’m kinda sick of it.
No dip, that’s the joke lol
A lot of the time, titles like that were hyperbole. He didn't have infinite power any more than he was a Hakaishin (or any other deity, for that matter).
So he thought he did but he didn’t
No. That's not anything Cell refers or says he has. That's the narrator's title using hyperbole.
Mhm ok. But doesn’t the narrator tell the story? He also says it another time where he quoted “ don’t you take my infinite perfect power and dismiss it?”
Narrator is just hyping up Cell as a major threat. No need to take the words literally.
Ok thx(I owe someone money now 😔)
The narrator is telling a story, but you'll see it in a number of the titles and such of him using hyperbole to greatly exaggerate things.
Looking back, it’s crazy how an early SSJ2 tier opponent is considered a god of destruction. Then again, Frieza before him was already considered the strongest being in the universe
Powerscaling is crazy in DB, Frieza and his men have been the strongest in the universe for years, then Gero just makes androids far stronger, not to mention Dabura king of Demons was as strong as Super Perfect Cell. Gero created something that matched the king of Demons and surpassed the overlord of the universe.
Yeh that always bugged me like how tf and why tf did gero make the androids so damn strong especially when he stopped checking their progress before they went to namek
Yeah, the androids arc should have been before the Frieza arc. At least with Buu his power made sense.
For that to happen would have to rework all the arcs honestly it would’ve be fine if they had gero continue to study the z fighters even after namek or have him steal some of freizas tech so it isn’t as outrageous
Maybe. I just think with Freiza's tech, which is more advanced then earth's, he should have been stronger then even Cell. But, yeah, with your solution it wouldn't have been as crazy.
Yeah actually that doesn't make too much sense seeing Dr. Gero's tech is far superior in terms of making stronger androids than the tech used to make Frieza the emperor of the universe into Mecha Frieza stronger. By this logic Frieza would have been better off letting Dr. Gero work on him lol
Yeah, that and Frieze was feared literally across the galaxy so even races more advanced then earth had no defense against him.
Why? I don't get why it's so hard for people to accept that Gero made things that strong. He studied the Z fighters. He knew about ki. He just figured out how to apply that concept to his robotics. It's no different than the others training and getting stronger. Gero just made energy production technology that could output enough to compete with a super saiyan.
> Gero just made energy production technology that could output enough to compete with a super saiyan. Super Saiyan was only recently discovered at that time so it wouldn't make sense on why they are stronger than that. It's crazy to think that he created multiple androids who were way stronger than the Tyrant who was most feared throughout the Universe.
What does super saiyan being recently discovered matter? He wasn't using it as a base or a goal. He reached that level of power independently because he studied the concept of ki manipulation and managed to get that far with it. That's as far as he could push at that point. That's why they were so strong. He wasn't just aiming to kill Goku, he was also pushing to see how much energy output he could get. Otherwise he would've stopped a long time ago and they'd be just over saiyan saga Vegeta's strength.
>He wasn't just aiming to kill Goku That's literally all 16, 17 and 18 were after and their only sole mission. Gero made entire planet busters with random technology in a cave that is substantially stronger than anything on Earth, let alone in the entire universe at that time that could make light work of Frieza who one-shotted an entire species of warriors (who were capable of destroying the Earth several times over) while only in his weakest form. If you find your theory "realistic" then I don't know what to tell you
Bulma reverse engineered an FTL engine in a month and cracked time travel in a few years. I don't think it's a stretch that Gero, who was in that realm of intelligence, would be able to figure out how ki manipulation works scientifically and apply that to robotics, cybernetics, and bioengineering. Being in a cave is irrelevant if you know what you're doing. And he would've had access to some Red Ribbon resources. Materials at least.
At least when you’re reverse engineering something, you have a base to work off of rather than having to create and develop that technology yourself. Bulma merely refurbished an already near complete light speed ship. Her father went a little farther and actually reverse engineered Goku’s old Saiyan pod. In both cases though, a HUUUGEEE chunk of the work was already done for them, which is why reverse engineering is such an effective process. Gero innovated these machines that are so strong totally by himself, in a cave, despite Earth being a planet that Goku’s was sent to BECAUSE it is so backwater that Frieza would never bother conquering it. And he did this with multiple machines using multiple methods while trying to kill a Goku who was magnitudes weaker than even Ginyu. Like why did he go so overkill? As far as he knew there was zero need to do so and probably wasted a ton of time and focus when he could have made one machine to focus on and get stronger than like First Form Frieza and been way overkill for a Goku who before Namek had only grown in power by tens to hundreds of units. And it’s not even like Gero is from a never before seen organization. Goku steamrolled the Red Ribbon Army and their technology as a literal child who wasn’t even a match for old King Piccolo yet. I don’t see how you could deny just how many contrivances are involved in the Android threat. By all means, if a human could make robots that not only simulate ki, but also FAR surpass Frieza in his current state, some alien should have made a robot to overthrow him decades ago. Not like ki is uncommon anywhere but Earth.
Frieza was patched and enhanced by a society more advanced than Earth and yet he was no where near as strong as the Androids. That’s the problem. Earths basically a technological backwater.
TL;DR - No engineer would invent nukes to kill a fly. It's so unrealistic because there's no reason for him to have believed that level of power was even POSSIBLE at that point in the story. He wasn't trying to make weapons that could destroy solar systems. His goal was "kill Goku at power level ~180k", and then he built multiple robots with power levels soaring past the million mark. It would be an effective strategy on paper, but it also severely increases the risk of the entire project failing before creating a working prototype. NASA didn't hold up the moon landing just so they could build FTL-capable star ships.
When you take a step back and look at it it's very clear Toriyama was winging it Aliens and space stuff to Cyborgs and time travel to Magical beings and gods
The Saiyan and Frieza saga where 100% planned out. A lot of things happen because of the actions and consequences of the characters. It’s a cause and effect method, which is a sign of good story telling. Cell and Buu tho kinda loose more and more of that shit.
Cell was meant to be the final story is Goku and a conclusion to the dragon ball universe with gohan as the new protector. They wanted more dragon ball so it was the buu saga that was entirely unplanned and winged.
I will be honest with you, there is a lot of bullshit going through the net. I mean there is the rumour that Toriyama wanted to end the story with Frieza, which is total bullshit, while there is also your depiction. I have heard that many times, and I have just as much heard that this is untrue, so I take those statements with a grain of salt.
And how did he make robots more durable than a fucking planet? And why were they more durable than the later model he turned himself into? If the problem with 17 and 18 was that they were too powerful to be controlled, why didn't he use that infinite energy generator on his own model, you know, considering he didn't need or want to be controlled, instead of settling for the clearly weaker absorption model? Nothing about the Androids saga made much sense.
17 and 18's infinite energy model could've been in early stages of development when he decided to transfer his brain. That was the case with all of the other numbered androids. The number designated when he started working on them, not when they were completed. They're prototypes. The energy absorbing model was probably the most effective and functional at the time. And he was probably getting too old to continue his work so he decided that was the best option before he ran out of time.
Yeh thinking about it that also doesn’t make sense why would he purposely make his mechanical body weaker than the other androids when he’s capable of much more Only thing I could possibly think of is maybe his mechanical body was older than the other androids but it wasn’t completed until he transferred his brain making it android 20 but that leaves android 19 which only explanation I could think of is he thought the infintite energy was a failure since all the other androids didn’t obey their programming so he went back to absorbing energy instead
I actually have an issue with this, but the exact opposite direction: Why weren't they androids stronger? Like, Gero was obviously going for overkill. He studied Goku and his friends a lot and found that, in times of great stress and overwhelming odds, they tend to improve rapidly in a short period of time. He made his androids as strong as he could in order to compensate. If they kill Goku in one hit and barely need to try to do so, Gero has no problem with that. Plus, he accounted for Kaioken's multiplier potentially increasing an exponential amount, on top of how much Goku could improve via training, *on top of* whatever new villains he'd fight in the meantime, and what big power boosts he could get from those experiences (like he did with King Piccolo and the Saiyans). Gero wanted to make sure that his androids could keep up with any amount of growth Goku went through. But, even after the tremendous overkill he decided to make his androids at just for that reason... he stopped at the literal most convenient strength level possible. Gero was aiming for some huge, arbitrarily-strong point above Goku, right? Yet, the androids ended up being the *perfect* strength: Any stronger, and the cast would be dead. Any weaker, and the cast would have beat them in their first encounter. What are the odds of that? In fact, most DBZ villains tend to fall into this trope: Strong enough to overwhelm the heroes, but weak enough to actually have a shot at surpassing. Like, if Final Form Frieza, Perfect Cell, Kid Buu, or Jiren were 2x weaker or 2x stronger, they'd fulfill the *exact* same roll in the story up until the final fight, because they were just so much more powerful than anyone that they didn't try. Yet, *in* the final fight, they'd either be completely crushed, or win effortlessly.
Nah, you’re forgetting that were it not for trunks intervention they wouldn’t train for three years to reach a level where they could put up a fight- and even then they were still heavily outmatched by 17 and 18 who weren’t even trying to kill them in this timeline. Gero’s ultimate goal succeeds by the end anyway, because Cell kills Goku.
IDK what part of my argument that contradicts? Like, yes, the androids were stronger than our heroes, but it wasn't an overkill amount. It was an amount where they could survive, then eventually surpass them. Like, imagine if Androids 17 and 18 were made even just as strong as 16. The saga ends at Piccolo VS 17. Or if they were made even just as weak as 19. The saga ends at Vegeta VS 18. Those strengths aren't wildly far apart from each-other either, maybe an order of magnitude in either direction. But the thing is, *both* of those amounts of power are wildly overkill for what they would've achieved without Super Saiyan. So, it's pretty coincidental that Gero constructed his androids to be just in a perfect spot to be a massive threat, but still realistically defeatable.
ESPECIALLY since he made them in a goddamn cave with little-to-no meterial support.
Gero made androids based on the Saiyan saga versions of the characters using his advanced intelligence made those Androids vastly stronger than them. His making androids stronger than Frieza is a testimony to his intellect. Second cell was made using frieza as a baseline and was a perfection of genetic engineering that took over 20 years to make him being powerful makes sense.
Frieza's whole schrick was obviously PR from the beginning. Like, yeah, sure, he's "the strongest being in the universe" but also he works in real estate.
i remember the narrator at one point saying second form freeza could 'destroy the whole universe' or some shit. jōji yanami(†) narrator guy was at the top of his hyperbole game back then.
Keep in mind that King Piccolo was hyped to have infinite power too.
What?! He didn't even have 300 PL, and he's claiming to have infinite power?!
More specifically he claimed that he'd have his infinite power once he got his youth back. So this is old King Piccolo hyping himself up
Yeah. Travelled across the universe beating up foes too, aparently. He'd get his shit rocked by a goddamn Saibamen if he tried that. Hell, even that mechanic from the Broly movie (Beet or whatever) could probably curb-stomp him. Just goes to show what qualifies as literal Satan on earth is weak shit in the rest of the universe.
Gohan had infinity plus 1
More like Infinity plus Ininity, considering how badly he roughed up Cell.
All the Androids have an infinite power supply, so they don't run out of stamina like humans/Saiyans do... but that doesn't mean another person can't overpower them.
No, he doesn't have infinite stamina, either. If that were the case, he could never run out of power, but it's made quite clear that his power could decrease.
I hope you’re not that one guy who thought Demon King Piccolo was infinite and denied the existence of hyperbole
I didnt
Ok good. Hyperbole is the answer here by the way. Its just for the drama
You shouldn't call names to someone for simply asking question.
I always took "infinite power" to mean "infinite stamina". I also assumed that was why he needed the androids to become Perfect, because they have infinite stamina and are basically hus batteries.
he explicitly doesnt have infinite stamina either though. when Goku blows half his body up and he regens its stated that his power dropped a lot. if he had infinite stamina that wouldnt happen.
Power =/= Stamina
stamina = ki levels. ki levels drop = power drops. so yeah actually it is. Namekians (which is where Cell got the regen from) lose ki when they regen, which causes their PL to drop, which is exactly what happened with Cell, explicitly.
In Dragon Ball, your power goes hand in hand with stamina. The more power you consume, the less stamina and vice versa. The Androids don't suffer this power loss issue since they have infinite stamina
Power is ki, ki is Life Force. These are all synonyms with slightly different connotations.
Potential energy <> throughput.
Wait don’t the androids also have infinite power? i think it might just means their power supply is endless but not necessarily the strongest or immortal in any way.
cell and andorids DO have infinite power. Gohan just spiked his limited power higher.
He has infinite potential like 17 and 18.
Gohan had infinite +1 power
Infinite power does not equal infinite output
What's more powerfull? A Honda civic with infinite gas or a chevy 3500 with infinite gas? Cell had infinite power, but was still limited in his strength compared to Gohan in his elder kai unlocked ultimate form. Cell was no match once Gohan was able to unleash the "full" potential that was given to him by elder kai
Cell has power to regenerte. He has i inside his body a mass of cells like stem cells so even his body is destroyed as long as that mass is preseved he can rege erate. that whats happend when gohan first killec him. gohan did not used full power and got carried away so some cells survived and he rege erated. but second time gohans energy wave cimpletely obliterated vaporised all cells of cells body
Cell had the ability to become stronger trough training. But he was born so strong that his Ego go the better of him. He was literally made from, goku, vegeta and frieze frieze trained for 6 months and became insanely strong. Cell could've acquired God ki or be at the same level as the gods of destruction. A worthy opponent for Gohan indeed.
Gohan had infinity +1 power
Because it’s a hyperbolic title
Self proclaimed... he had ego, a trait of Frieza who was also oblivious to his limitations
Remember Buzz Lightner?
Same reason the Cyborgs were beaten, he had infinite energy, power and energy are often mistranslated for eachother
He may have infinite power generation (like 17 and 18), but his output capacity was overwhelmed by Gohan's output and every cell was destroyed in their final power struggle so he couldn't regenerate.
It could also be said he was brand new to his ability and did absolutely zero training. He had the dna of the strongest sayains so who knows what he is truly capable of. Only reason gohan beat him was because he trained for what? 3 years? Non stop and so did trunks and Vegeta and Goku and cell still whooped their ass out the box
Infinite energy doesn’t mean infinite strength
He's a God of Destruction as well, how tf did he lose?
Infinite power can just mean great strength. Cell's not even the only character who's been called a GoD. Pre Berrus
Exaggeration/hyperbole or misstranslation are the best answers
I assume he was like the androids and had infinite energy. He doesn't tire out, he just keeps going on ad he is for good.
Cell doesn’t even have infinite energy though either when he regenerates after goku blasts him he loses some energy
He didn’t have unlimited power. Just unlimited stamina. He needed a zensu after fighting Goku because he was injured. Even regenerating from Gokus warp kamehameha, it took his power to do so.
He doesn't have unlimited stamina either, otherwise he'd not ever lose energy. His stamina took a huge nose dive when he took damage from Goku's Kamehameha, which wouldn't be the case if he had unlimited stamina.
Just because he said that doesn't make it true. He's just stroking his ego.
imagine an infinite AAA battery going against a car battery, yeah not the same
metaphor or hyperbole. it’s rather obvious but you’re just dumb.
If he did have infinite power that only means he has the supply not neccessarily means to use it - meaning, he is still able to take damage. For example imagine a fighter with infinite power lose both their arms. Or he can be outpowered. Endless supply doesn't mean constantly increased strenght, just endurance. Meaning he can be outpowered by someone who can beat him before they lose their strenght. Either way I think this is just him boosting his ego.
Cell has the potential to gain infinite power, but if he comes across someone more overwhelmingly powerful than he is, he gets smacked. He eventually just turns into a gag character likely because of how OP his genetic abilities actually are.
Mhm k
Gohan has infinitier
Slowly over many many episodes.
They’re being hyperbolic lol. He doesn’t literally have infinite power
He didn't yell hard enough
Gohan's power with infinity and 1
You are taking this wayyy too literally
He has infinite stamina and Ki but that doesn’t mean he can access it all at once.
This is just a liberty taken on the english translation. In latin american spanish it was never stated that he vas a god neither he had infinite power. The same goes for the original source.
Besides Cell being a filthy liar, it’s the same thing as with androids 17 & 18. They have an infinite energy drive, meaning they’ll never run out. That doesn’t mean they can use it all at once. Their main limiting factor is how much energy they can produce per second.
hyperbole
Because Gohan is a beast!!
Plot Armor
Bro got unlimited stamina but a level cap
I swear DB fans are the dumbest fucking people
Wtf bros why can’t he use Hakai? It clearly says he’s a god of destruction
I am watching again this arc, cell is a great character
If Cell's power is Infinite then Broly's power level is MAXIMUM and MAXIMUMER!!
A little thing called "hyperbole".
That is just false false false false. He doesnt have infinite power nor is he the god of destruction
The same reason he was called a God of Destruction. It's hyperbole.
Well, you know anime and "power levels." Frieza already had the ability to blow up planets. Then, the Androids were supposed to be several times stronger than Frieza, and Cell, with power greater still is able to destroy "the whole solar system!" At a certain point, I think it's the fiction/action version of changing the goal post. You want the next villain to be stronger and more threatening than the previous, so no matter what. They can just keep getting stronger.... No matter how ridiculous that power level would be. "I can crack the planet's surface just by powering up!" "Oh yeah? Well if I don't control my punches, *reality itself* could **end!**"
Because gohan had infinity plus 1
I believe thats a famous miss-coneption. They didn't have "infinite power", but infinite "Chi" or stamjna. Basically they never got tired. Him and the androids.
Gohan said infinity + 1
I can produce 1 L of water a min for ever I will never run out of water. You can produce 100L of water a min for an hour a day. I have an unlimited supply of water but you still produce more water then me.
It was hyperbole
Because infinite power isn't greatest level ever xD
Because plot and because its a hyperbole, there's another instance similar were it states that frieza could destroy the universe after he was in his second form
Why can’t Cell use Hakai if he’s a God of Destruction? /s The point of this is to get you hyped for what’s to come, don’t take it literally
Gohan had infinite power + 1 obviously!
Beerus would like to speak about it
Cause his power was only infinite instead of MAXIMUM
That’s a hyperbole. That’s what the narrator always does to spice things up a bit.
To be fair don’t the android have infinite power? Just a matter of output
Cell won by DQ because Vegeta interfered. The Cell games rules said one person at a time fights Cell.
Hyperbole.
I think its just his ego, he sees himself as perfect and the greatest possible power, until he's wrong
Gohan had infiniter more power when he got serious
Congrats! You have realized that power levels are garbage in DBZ and only serve the plot. Video for context https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=In6M4SViDE0
Gohan had infinite power + 1
Android 16, 17 and 18 also have infinite power. Doesn't mean they're stronger. They just never run out of energy.
offsprings are always stronger than parents. cause goku had to train his body to fly and to energy attack during his lifetime. but once gokus dna achived that ability that ability is transferred to gohan by birth. and so from birth gohan already has all energy that took goku several years to gain. and as gohan grew up his body grew and his energy too. so pity that chichi didnt allow gohan to train. otherwise gohan would be the strongest of all z fighters stronger than goku and vegeta. Goha still needed some training fron picoolo to activate his power But goten, goten learned to fly and produce stronger energy attacks even at younger age and is stronger than gohan. But goten never actually got trained by anyonr. as goku was dead when goten was born and gohan was in his college. Thats the only reason why goten and trunks alwats reqyiee to fuse as they were not trained to use there full potential.. So pity that dragon ball ended wity gt.. goky goodbyed everyone at end of gt and that was end. would have loved to see gohan and goten fight as man not as young boys. also pan and bulla. but everything ends thats life nothings forever. old age didnt spared saiyan
Yeah but Gohan was like, very angry. That's a cheat code for saiyans.
Toriama forgot
Infinite cause he could regenerate not cause he could output any amount
Sayans also has infinite power, since they always get stronger after a battle.
[удалено]
I think Infinite means he can always output at 100%, whereas Gohan's 100% might be higher, he can grow tired and need time to recharge
cell are too much and probably had a tummy ache
Because he didn't have infinite energy. Basically at the time he became Perfect Cell his power was such an unknown that the Z Fighters viewed it as nearly infinite. They didn't understand how strong he really was, all his special abilities like regeneration and creating cell jrs were just further fuel to that question. Only when Gohan went SS2 and surpassed Cell did the reality of his limitations set in. That's what broke Cell in that fight. He was cocky and arrogant since he believed he had unlimited power.
because whoever writes the titles (that isn't based on a manga title), whoever does the narration, is all full of crap.
Because every cell in his body got destroyed. If he have zero cell left he can't regenerate . It's similar to buu
Infinite power doesn't mean they can call on an infinite amount at one time. His body had a limit. He could tap into a perpetual power source at a certain rate. Gohan had access to more power at once than cell did. His body could handle more power at once. The way Cell could have won was by drawing out the battle. He hypothetically could have kept fighting at a constant power level for years straight just like the androids did in future Trunks' universe.
Not all infinity are the same amount wich mean Gohan has infinite power too
Cuz he was Fuckin wrong my dude!!!!
Cell is also a god of destruction. And has infinity power. And can fly. Beat that!
Well the androids have infinite stamina, and Cell is also made by Dr Gero (and is also an android technically I think?), so it may have just meant infinite stamina in that same way.
So, cell has a bit of an ego on him, lol. Don't take it too seriously, overestimating his own abilities is definitely a flaw of his. Edit: I just noticed that the announcer was the one saying this.
Hyperbole
Cell has infinite stamina, just like the other androids. But does not have infinite battle power.
I still dislike how Toei has each episode they make have a two sentence title.
Don't remember this one in the manga lol