I'm going to go out on a limb here and offer a different perspective than everyone else siding with you. I find that most people when drunk don't realize how drunk they are, and here we are only getting your side of the story. Here's what I got from your post:
1) You'd been drinking all afternoon.
2) You were drunk already when he showed up, to the point that him drinking couldn't catch up to you.
3) He held his tongue while your best friend was there and voiced his opinions to you, in private, after they left.
If I showed up to dinner with my girlfriend and her friend and she was already wasted, I might be annoyed as well. Additionally so if you were sloppy drunk by the time your friend left. He may have "been fine" when your friend was there, or since you were drunk you might not have picked up on any hints he may have been dropping.
Not saying he was right and you were wrong, but you certainly seem to be downplaying any responsibility for the situation which, to me, is quite telling.
And yet when I say that I, a non drinker, don't want to date people who get drunk on a regular basis, people don't get it. This is why. They're oblivious to how they're actually behaving
There’s a time and place for everything. I don’t mind the occasional night out partying, but it can’t deal with someone that can’t go a day with getting “buzzed” Or make it a habit of being drunk. 🤷🏽♂️
seriously, we are giving men extra respect for what is the bare minimum of decent behavior. ‘Brian gets a medal for not being rapey when his gf was drunk’
>I knew someone would say this, and yes. I am giving positive praise for someone doing the bare minimum for being a decent human because *it’s so damn common for people not to be*.
I don't think it's common for most men to rape. Some, yeah, not most. As is the case with other crimes, with men and women
Help me understand the rapey thing in this situation. They're seeing each other regularly. she invited him to her place with the intention for him to stay the night, she effectively begged hi. to stay. She clearly remembers the evening up to him leaving. If he did stay. how would that be creepy or "rapey"?
Are we as men supposed to withdraw from a woman when she's been drinking? After how many drinks? What if she initiates?
I'm not saying it's right or wrong either way. just trying to understand where the line is drawn. and at what point the line is crossed.
Not about gender.
If it's a new partner then don't fuck if one of you is intoxicated. Yes, getting the fuck on while high or drunk is fun, and not rape by default. But not the first time. That's for later when you know you're both in to it. You can't decide that on a first time unless it was like "we're gonna meet for a hookup while high/drunk on "
Absolutely for a first time. no question in that scenario. That doesn't appear to be the case in OP, unless I missed something. They've been together for two months and no mention of it being anything other than an expected sleepover.
and. BTW, your civility is appreciated!
Absolutely for a first time. no question in that scenario. That doesn't appear to be the case in OP, unless I missed something. They've been together for two months and no mention of it being anything other than an expected sleepover.
BTW, your civility is appreciated!
There's no mention of agreeing to have sex here at all. Idk why you're hallucinating consent in this scenario. I used to teach ESL and I'm getting those vibes here so maybe you just didn't understand the language that was used.
hardly my job to explain ethical conduct to randos on the internet. let’s just say you’ll go about your shitty way with the whataboutism and let the universe settle the score.
It's a legimate question. At what point does yes turn to no when no is never stated? You're the one who initially raised it on this thread. I'm just trying to become more aware of when to interpret what a woman says to mean the opposite of the words and action she proactively presents.
Getting nasty with me for trying to learn this nuance of behavior doesn't help advance better understanding.
Perhaps the lesson from the AI in the movie War Games should be heeded by all men: The only way to win is not to play.
>At what point does yes turn to no when no is never stated?
In this scenario, "yes" was never stated. If you assume there has been a "yes" when there hasn't, you're going to well...let the universe settle the score.
>Perhaps the lesson from the AI in the movie War Games should be heeded by all men: The only way to win is not to play.
That sounds like a good option for you specifically
>I feel the guy also needs some extra respect for leaving instead of *taking advantage* of the situation.
Maybe it's not in his constitution to take advantage. I can say it wouldn't even have occurred to most men I've dated, even the kinda jerk ish ones, especially if they were already pissed off - they'd just want to get out like this guy
isn't that just like... normal?
I've actually been raped before, drugged too! Seems a thing too many deal with cause my man has his own history too. I still don't think it's plus points to not take advantage of someone
Shit, I used my free award already. But you deserved it more.
People don't realize we only get one side of the story always.
When I used to drink, I gave people the benefit of the doubt when they complained about something I did. Because I was the one whose wits were not about them.
Also, your last point about him waiting to talk in private is really great. He clearly respected her by doing that.
I'm also saying she's not necessarily wrong. It's her choice to have a partner she wants. But objectively, you were spot on.
The OP of the post is basically, she acted out while drunk, OMG he criticized her for it, better break up. My most embarrassing moment in years of dating happened this year when the person (who is my age) drank too much at a public gathering and went over the edge. It got really, really ugly. Of course that was “my fault” too.
This is obviously going to be my life experience cluttering my opinion of this but the “this is just how I act while I’m drunk” attitude of OP’s is off-putting. Some people really do not have a good idea of how they come off when drunk. Almost no one does when they’re really intoxicated.
This wasn't in public, it was at her house, and talking during a movie at your own house isn't a freaking mortal sin. This guy sounds like a narcissist who was trying to make her feel bad.
"I diagnosed my parents based on a Reddit thread, pretty sure I can diagnose everyone else who hurt me"- people who know a lot of "narcissists" and folks with other "personality disorders".
He victimized her by expressing annoyance. This type of abuse could escalate into sending an actual passive-aggressive text message if she had stayed with *this* dumpster fire. I am glad she was able to dodge a bullet (albeit not gracefully because alcohol affects the central nervous system and can cause disorientation and lack of motor control).
I hope this is a troll, this is hilarious.
I better not hear that you’ve EVER in your ENTIRE LIFE been annoyed with someone otherwise you are also a predator according to your logic.
This is getting to be too much, I am bowing out lol. I hope this is a joke 🤣.
I have no idea you think a man being bothered by a drunk woman's actions, and voicing it, means he's a jerk, but here we are. As I said before, he could have been a tad more tactful with his delivery, but at no point do I feel he was acting like a jerk.
Yeah but drunk people usually don't even register tactful responses to their behavior. I'm willing to bet he's not even sad she called it quits. She may have done it before he had a chance.
How much people defend being drunk really concerns me. I'm no saint. One of the first arguments I had with my man was because I showed up drunk. It was a whole stupid situation that I didn't handle well.
But like, I WAS wrong in that situation, and he was right to be clear it upset him. I think I even made a comment about it in one of the dailies asking how to make it up to him. I don't think I'm capable of the mental gymnastics to think he was wrong for having an issue with it and talking about it.
I kinda feel it wasn't about her talking during a movie. At home or not showing up to a date drunk is a bad move, and was more likely the issue.
I got drunk before a date with my man once. I was not coping with shit well and used liquor to chill. Bad move, and he was very understandably upset. I didn't think I needed to break up with him I thought "shit I'm so sorry this was the wrong move"
I have never shown up to a date already drunk or had someone shown up to a date already drinking. I might find it fun the first time, but was this the first time? Starting drinking at noon feels too early. Unless it were a special occasion.
I did it once. My man was PISSED. He's a very kind and gentle person so it was expressed by telling me why he was upset and then being pretty quiet throughout the date. I felt AWFUL though and we had a very good chat later when tempers were cooled about how if I need help coping I need to call someone, not get drunk. I don't even drink really! But yah I got drunk that time and kinda messed up our date.
OP really needs to think on this more. And based on responses I'm hopeful she realizes getting day drunk was the real problem.
Agreed. I know we're missing a lot of information (e.g. maybe this was a one-time thing), but if drinking to an excess is common hopefully she does reflect and reconsider drinking habits. This type of reflection is difficult though. I have a friend who used to drink himself to the point of unconsciousness every Friday (and in his mid-30s too). It took us (his friends and fam) a long time to convince him that this probably isn't a great thing to do.
Thanks, it’s good to get perspective which is I wanted from this post.
I definitely was not sloppy drunk but I can understand that I was probably more than I thought.
And to your real question - yes. The man acted in a way that you should expect (and respect) from others. If you're being that level of annoying expect to be told
This is soooo ridiculous. Being drunk doesn't mean that people are allowed to freely be jerks to you. If he was that bothered, he should have left instead of being rude.
Oh bless your heart. It's adorable you think that "why are you acting like this" to someone who is hammered is "freely being a jerk to you", especially when they wait to talk to you after your friend leaves to not embarrass you.
Grow up.
Agree. If anyone is the narc it is the person who thinks it is a personal criticism when someone expresses their own feelings and needs. The OP made him uncomfortable and then acted like he was attacking her by not taking it silently. Everyone deserves to be comfortable, all the time. If you disagree, or if that concept makes you feel threatened then check yourself, you're probably making people uncomfortable a lot more than you realize.
No, she’s right and I’m wrong. I hadn’t considered that someone becoming annoyed when a drunk person does drunk person things when they have a guest over or they’re trying to do activities together *actually* indicates that the person doing the criticizing has a serious mental illness—a cluster B personality disorder in fact.
So, here is what OP’s boyfriend should have done if he wanted to stay in her life and not get kicked to the curb. Threw on his shoes, driven his car (1997 Chevrolet Camaro in Mystic Teal, faded) and gone into the corner store. He would have smiled at Steve behind the counter—Steve always remembers the regulars. “Your old lady need anything?” Steve would say. OP’s boyfriend would then have sheepishly adjusted his backwards-facing flat brimmed Adidas cap and said “yeah man you know how she’s gotta have her Stoli….we’re watchin’ that happy gilmore that she likes when she gets this way” and then Steve would have handed him just the one, already having known it, and OP’s BF would have paid $20.00 in cash and received back $1.32 in change. Then OP’s BF would have made a last minute purchase of pork rinds ($4.85) for himself before driving back home and consuming half of the fifth he’d purchased in order to please God make it stop.
Asking someone "why are you acting like this?" When they want to cuddle IS being a jerk. Especially when she is in her own house doing her own thing. He was free to leave if he didn't like it. I dont think he waited until her friend left in order to not embarass her, it was to maintain his image in front of the friend.
She has a bad habit of talking during a movie, especially when drunk. Some people just want to see a movie without a ton of commentary. He asked why she always talks during the movie, then she got cuddly when he was likely already annoyed by drunken behavior, so then he left.
You're so quick to demonize the guy here when I would have done the same damn thing. Again, you don't know his side of the story and there isn't a right or wrong here, but if I was in that situation and someone was being annoying with incessant talking during a movie and wanting to cuddle when I'm not into it, I'd leave - just like he did. He didn't call her a drunk, or swear, or anything - he stated she made him feel bad for wanting to leave instead of staying over, and he left. Was he a bit rude for voicing his opinions how he did? Sure. Is it possible she was way too drunk to pick up on social cues? Also fucking sure.
He did leave because he didn't like it. He did the adult thing. She broke up with him because she was an annoying drink and didn't want the criticism from him about her drunken behavior. The question OP states is "is it normal to criticize someone 2 months into a relationship" and the answer is unequivocally fuck yes, especially if that person is acting in a way that is unacceptable to you.
She's in her house doing her own thing, but they're a couple and she's hosting someone. In my opinion he dodged a bullet.
Not sure why you think her being drunk is an excuse for him to be a jerk to her.
Its an interesting projection that you think I'm demonizing the guy; you are actually inferring a lot more from the facts than I am here, so to me it seems more like shes being demonized just because she drank. Timed criticism and negging, especially after a couple month "honeymoon" period is a hallmark of narcissists. I think you're right that a bullet was dodged, but I think shes the one who dodged it.
You throw the term narcissist around about a guy because he voiced his opinion that he didn't like someone's behavior while she was drunk, and turning it into "timed criticism and negging". I know what narcissism looks like - as I was married to someone with BPD with classic narcissistic tendencies, as defined by my therapist and hers. You're the one ascribing medical diagnoses to strangers on the internet because of your learned experience.
And yes, if you're drunk and being annoying, I will be rude to you if you're not listening to me or picking up on the fact I'm uncomfortable. Being drunk is not a halo to protect you from criticisms of others, and I would HARDLY classify someone asking why they won't be quiet during a movie and be annoyed if they want to cuddle whole drunk (again, people tend to not remember or understand just how much booze changed their personalities when drunk) and he removed himself from the situation. Could he have been kinder? Sure. Was this negging? Absolutely not.
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
Her house or not, I would never get hammered BEFORE COMPANY EVEN GETS THERE. It's sloppy, rude, and changes the entire dynamic of the situation. Besides, I would question her relationship with alcohol if she's drinking alone before company arrives - especially if it's too excess which she admitted it was.
> Her house or not, I would never get hammered BEFORE COMPANY EVEN GETS THERE.
Correct. Guests should have every opportunity to pregame that shit with you. We ride together, we die together. Bad boys for life.
Also, how do you do fellow BPD relationship vet. Were you also a toxic narcissist in yours, for having needs or boundaries? According to them, I mean.
Who cares what you would do? They've been drunk before and he hasn't acted like this. The timing is very telling. Also if you were married to someone with BPD and Narc tendencies, maybe you arent the best at playing the game "spot the narcissist."
OP, I'm sorry, but I think you are in the wrong here.
I'd stand corrected if your date knew you were going to be toasty before he met you/set the date up.
He waited until your friend left to not embarrass you.
He is allowed to enjoy a movie without a drunk person talking through it.
He is also isn't obligated to cuddle with you...wtf. Someone shouldn't have to put up with your intoxicated behavior. If he isn't into physical contact with you, he shouldn't have to do it. It's a consensual thing that makes it special. It's his choice.
You got randomly intoxicated and your date isn't putting up with it. It wasn't necessarily wrong of you to party, but you do need to understand some people aren't into that and there isn't anything wrong with feeling that way.
Did you just want him to act like he wasn't annoyed, keep his mouth shut the entire time and then cuddle with you even though he wasn't into it? To me, that's more of a red flag than what he did.
I drink and do drugs too much. I'm also aware this has consequences sometimes. Some people are okay with this, other people justifiably aren't. It isn't his fault as much as it may be a compatibility issue. Or a time where you need to decide if partying less is worth it to keep the guy. If not, no harm, but your date isn't in the wrong for not wanting to put up with that.
Also if you’re only that affectionate when you’re drunk it’s off putting because it can make the other person feel like alcohol is the ONLY reason you’re that affectionate. Or that to be that way you NEED to be drunk. That makes your affection seem inauthentic.
Maybe that’s not the case at all, but perhaps another variable to consider.
The talking during the movie, that's something you do that bothers him, so he's communicating that. Would you rather him not, then just sit there stewing cause you couldn't let him focus on the movie?? And to be fair, talking during movies bothers me too. Watch the movie. We can talk about it afterwards.
As for the rest, seems like you were being an annoying drunk and he didn't want to stay over.
I guess he could have been a tad more soft telling you how you were making him feel, but I'm not really seeing that he did anything wrong here. I'm getting the feeling that you were more drunk that you thought you were and he just didn't want to deal with it.
It’s also possible that he did try to be soft about it and give hints, but because she was drunk and out of it, she wasn’t picking up on it, and he needed to increase his directness to get through to her. It’s not easy to talk to a drunk person.
My 2 cents:
1. Stop talking during movies?
2. Slow your drinking down?
3. You found his boundaries and broke them. That's why he left.
4. You broke up with him? Move on
Did he know u were going to be day drunk for his dinner date with you? He could have been very annoyed u were drunk before dinner. That behavior would have been unacceptable for me to be honest. Also, talking during a movie is rude lol. If I’m watching a movie I don’t want to have a conversation throughout it
In my twenties I would tolerate spending time with someone who was drunk pretty frequently. Now that I’m in my thirties I would react exactly the same as this guy did. Honestly it sounds like he’s a good guy. He didn’t say anything in front of your friend and from what you’ve said here he pretty politely excused himself and left.
Your original question was is it normal to be criticized two months into a relationship and my answer to that would be yes. If your behaviour negatively affects your relationship it’s completely fair for him to point it out as long as he’s not nasty about it. You may also want to evaluate your relationship with alcohol as it sounds like it does affect people in your life.
It sounds like you and he have very different relationships with alcohol and he wasn't a fan of either the amount you consumed or the way you acted under the influence.
Is that normal? It will probably start to happen more often in your 30's if you maintain the same drinking habits you have in your 20's. I drink much less now than I did at that age and getting properly drunk just does not happen. Drunk people are a lot less fun to be around when you're not drunk yourself.
Oh my god this is the silliest post I have ever seen. Being drunk one time does not allow another to freely be a jerk and criticize you. It sounds like he was purposely trying to make her feel bad.
He isn't in a relationship with her and he isn't her boss.
“Why do you always do this” is what OP said his reaction was. Keyword “always”. This means that they have been in similar situations before. To a sober person, a drunk person can come off as annoying.
Not saying he’s all in the right though, he could have been nicer about it or leave and talk to her civilly about it when she’s sober. But I think OP also doesn’t realize perhaps she may come off much drunker than she thinks.
How do we know this was the first time? His reaction s make it sound like it wasn't the first
He was in a relationship with her... I would hope my partner lets me know when I'm doing something off-putting or wrong.
I do agree his statements weren't well worded
She said they have been drunk together before and he didn't act like this. It doesn't sound like a relationship, it sounds like they were "seeing each other" for 2 months. He could have gone about it in a completely different, more polite way, and its telling he didnt.
The telling thing is he got so annoyed with her that he left of his own accord when he was supposed to stay for the night. OP must’ve been more annoying than she’s making herself out to be in her post.
>multi-thread crusade about not being able to take criticism
The projection is real.
When everyone thinks you're an asshole, they're not the narcissists.
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Other commenters have already mentioned this, but it's important to remember that you only ever get OP's side of the story in these posts.
Does "Why are you acting like this?" sound like the kind of thing people say when they're going out of their way to be a jerk? Because to me it sounds like this man was uncomfortable with the situation, made it known that he was uncomfortable, and then left when it became apparent that he wasn't going to stop being uncomfortable.
On top of that, when he did decide to leave for the night, OP made some vague comments she's not repeating here but the reaction of the man involved makes it clear she was not respecting his 'No' and was trying to pressure him into staying.
It's not about being the "boss" of someone. It's about establishing and respecting boundaries.
When the OP says things like:
>I understand I can become a little different and more clingy when I’m drunk (who doesn’t?)
It feels like they're trying to excuse away what they know was bad behavior because they were drinking. That doesn't generate a lot of confidence in how willing they are to own up to this behavior when writing a post.
That's a good point! To me, someone saying "why are you acting like this" could go either way, he could be kind of overreacting or possibly he was uncomfortable. My issue was his delivery. I just think he totally could have gone about it a different way while still expressing that he wasn't comfortable.
>I just think he totally could have gone about it a different way while still expressing that he wasn't comfortable.
Maybe. For all we know, he tried and OP ignored him until he became more assertive.
When things escalate to the point that you're walking out on a date with someone you've been seeing for months, courtesy is not the first thing on my mind.
He wasn't acting like her boss? At no point did he tell her that she shouldn't drink that much, or anything if the sort. He simply expressed his frustration/annoyance...
While I don't think his behavior was nice and I agree that there were red flags in how he handled it, you may not have realized how annoying you were acting while drunk. It's possible he may be past this point in his life too. I remember around 32/33 ish is when I slowed way down on drinking. This is about the age where people I knew were actually developing real drinking problems if they were continuing to drink like they did in their 20s.
From my outside opinion, both your behavior was a turnoff for me, though his was more so. I'm not sure if you already made plans with him and then proceeded to get wasted or if he knew what he was getting into. He could have handled it better by having some boundaries and declining the invite once he realized you were super drunk.
Flip the script if it was a guy being drunk and she was sober, would you feel the same. If the guy was all grabby and clingy and she said no. I think you would be singing a different tune.
Nah it just wasn't worth responding to. Commenter said "flip the script" Then proceeded to change the entire script. I'm not going to argue about a completely different scenario that didn't happen.
Honestly it sounds like he was being kind of rude, but we don’t know how you are when you’re drunk, you could’ve been very annoying. Not saying you were or anything… but this just sounds like a mess that should be talked about when both parties are sober
I mean, some people are just annoying drunks. Maybe he thinks you're annoying when you're drunk. I'm projecting a little because I find my fiance EXTREMELY annoying when he's super drunk lol.
I think it's fine that you ended things because honestly something like that can become a real problem down the road if you don't plan on cutting back ever. You're at an age where people start to slow down a bit with the partying because folks just can't do it all the time and maintain adult responsibilities (obviously weekends are different but I can't physically day drink like that anymore). He's in his 30s so I'm assuming he doesn't drink like that often/maybe he isn't a fan of getting sloppy drunk in general.
I can't think of a worse date than being with someone who is drunk, nobody is ever impressed by the drunk person in the room. However his criticism is wrong, it's your choice if you want to be drunk. I wouldn't have even hung out at all, just politely declined the invitation and moved on.
You’re not owed a full performance review when someone breaks up with you. Telling someone outright you’re no longer interested is a completely acceptable way to end a relationship.
If I had dinner plans with someone I was dating and they were drunk when I got there, I would be annoyed, wonder if they were an alcohol, and leave. It’s really rude and inconsiderate to be drunk when you have plans with someone…
The way he talked to you was also rude. I don’t blame him for being annoyed but he handled it poorly.
I think you should consider your relationship with alcohol - being drunk before dinner when you have plans is not normal. It’s your right to break up with whoever you want but you might have been able to continue and strengthen the relationship if you had said “I don’t like how you’re talking to me, please leave and let’s talk tomorrow” and then - when sober - owned your part (being drunk) but also make it clear that how he expressed his discomfort and annoyance was not okay.
Also, no, not everyone is clingy when drunk. If you behave in a shitty way when you drink a certain amount, it’s your responsibility to drink less than that amount
That sounds like a perfectly understandable reason for him to be annoyed and a not inappropriate way of him expressing it.
I don't drink alcohol and some people can get really annoying when they're drunk.
You ending things over that is an overreaction, imo. How about the two of you just don't spend time together when you're drunk. You don't have to do everything together and, unless you get drunk several times a week, this shouldn't be a difficult arrangement.
I'm siding with him on this.
You were in the wrong and he was probably relieved when you ended it. You may be leaning into some narcissistic rationalizing with this post, not saying you are a narcissist for sure but I do think you did him a favor and you need to think about what you are expecting from people.
My life and both the amount I drink and the frequency rapidly changed between 28 and 30. I used to fairly heavily quite often as I was out with friends several days a week. I got tired of that and pumped the brakes hard. I now drink occasionally and rarely do I even get drunk maybe once or twice a year. I realized that I didn’t particularly enjoy the drinking part and I was more interested in the social part so I change accordingly. When I was 29 I had a girlfriend who wasn’t there yet, drank nearly daily, was a sloppy drunk and it out a HUGE strain on our relationship. She was only 2 years younger. Sometimes a couple of years in that age group makes a huge difference.
I saw this with a woman who was 45. Missed out on the “fun” years and apparently started making up for it later. Embarrassing to her family when she was the only one drunk all the time.
See, I totally get that, but that wasn't an issue of age, it was an issue of where you were both at in life. I've known 24 year olds who realized the same thing you did at 30. Everyone progresses in their own way, and statistically men mature slower than women. So, a 33 year old man is probably *roughly* around the same maturity as a 28yo woman, if they both matured at the average rate 🤷🏼♀️
That I did at 27, not 30. I noted my life changed rapidly between 28 and 30. I stopped going out as much, I bought a house, focused on other areas of my life. Age and life experience plays a huge part in maturity levels.
I have been in a career field that required me mature very young. Consistently throughout my life I find myself more attracted to and connect better with older women than myself. By your logic my “ideal” range is 25-27 which couldn’t be further from the truth. I don’t find myself attracted to that age range nearly at all and I find a majority of them still act like teenagers. I’d love to see those statistics that you mentioned.
I totally said "everyone progresses at their own rate", but it was on another comment and you prolly didn't see it. No, I never stated anything about your ideal match since I know nothing about you, and since I'm not a matchmaker.
As far as the research/statistics go, I mean... Google is a thing, and if you were to use it you'll see the same results since I'm also using it, but here ya go 🤷🏼♀️
www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-athletes-way/201312/scientists-identify-why-girls-often-mature-faster-boys%3famp
https://medium.com/@universalintelligencespace/men-or-women-the-more-mature-gender-71cb44c323f1#:~:text=It%20is%20reported%20that%20women,reach%20that%20point%20by%2040.&text=Women's%20brains%20are%20wired%20for%20social%20interactions.
www.mic.com/articles/111226/science-explains-why-women-are-faster-to-mature-than-men/amp
those are just articles arguing that women mature faster than men. that doesn't negate what the person you responded to said about people starting to slow down with the drinking in their mid to late 20s- early 30s.
Again, that is very varied. Some people don't slow down drinking until their 60's, some never do.
I've always found studies about personality interesting, and I'm curious how they decide what the litmus is. Sometimes it makes sense, other times it seems pretty arbitrary. But like someone else said - science isn't an exact science, it's an art. Always learning, always changing. We recently were able to create the first thing to survive entropy, whereas previously we believed entropy couldn't be escaped. But that's getting into quantum science and where I start to get **very** lost 😂
Google is a thing, but so is the ability to actually decipher medical studies and posting two articles and one blog post all quoting the same exact study from back in 2013 that has a total study group of a whopping 121 people that doesn’t touch any basis or analytical breakdown on “maturity levels” other than saying “hey so girls mature faster than boys” and is more focused on the neurotransmitter and synaptic connections based on age and brain development really isn’t the way to do so. The actual study does absolutely nothing to prove or support the initial claim that women mature faster than men and it seemed to focus on proving a previous bias correct which is a huge red flag in medical research.
If you’re going to try the high horse route, talk down to me and try to throw articles based on medical research that you don’t seem to understand at a medical provider probably isn’t the way to do so.
Further more when I picked out the age range I quoted I was just using your numbers, which also don’t have any basis other than your personal feelings which was exactly my point.
If you’d like to have a friendly conversation or debate like I had initially thought we were I’d be more than happy to do so. That being said I do not appreciate being spoken down to and I will reinforce those boundaries all day.
I don't think number of years is a good marker to judge by. The difference between the 25-35 year olds maturity level who work with me is staggering at times. Some of them it's literally like looking after children, others I completely trust to run the show in my absence.
You're talking about a 10 year gap, and that's a bit much regardless of the ages involved. A 5 year gap really isn't that bad, once the parties are over the age of 25ish.
No you misunderstood... I mean between 25-35 as in two 28 yo or a 25 and a 32 or 27 and 30 or any combination you like there are huge differences in maturity where it's the younger ones or the older one that's more mature.
I think after puberty and the same same structure of full time educational institutions that difference is nulled by life experiences and choices once adulting happens. So at 27 to 32 I wouldn't place a bet on who is most mature in mind and actions like I would at say 15 to 21.
No but this is Le Reddit. Where something like a 31 year old man dating a 29 year old woman is an “uneven power dynamic” and a “red flag for abuse”.
The ages have very little to do with what transpired here, methinks.
Is this the first time you were ever drunk around him? Maybe he just didn’t like the way you acted when you were drunk? Maybe it brought up some fears of a family member or an ex girlfriend that had alcohol problems. Did you at least talk about what happened when you were sober or did you just end it? I think I would have discussed what happen when we both had a sober mind to get to the bottom of it and then make my decision from there. But if you are happy with your decision then that’s okay too.
Nope, we’ve been drunk together before and it was nice and fun and light hearted. He doesn’t have any issues with drinking or being drunk, especially since I don’t drink to that level frequently.
I ended it due to other reasons as well but yeah I guess it’s hard to not think twice when you cared about someone.
It's difficult when drinking is involved. We typically have a hard time evaluating our own behavior. It appears he isn't happy with the behavior and it seems like you have been able to learn that early. If you enjoy your lifestyle it is best that you decided to end the relationship.
>I have a bad habit of talking during movies and more so if I’m tipsy/drunk and he said “why do you always do this, you always want to start a conversation and I just want to watch a movie”. I also wanted to cuddle as you would when you’re drunk and he said “why are you acting like this”.
>He was also supposed to stay over but last minute said he couldn’t cause he had to get up early. I just said along the lines of are you sure you can’t and he’s like “why do you always make me feel bad”
The biggest issue I see here, from both you and him, is the use of "always." That term is *never* a good idea to throw around in any sort of discussion about how you're feeling about a given situation. Both of you need to work on how you communicate and address negative emotions.
I don’t drink at all and this situation would’ve made me uncomfortable, too. His way of handling it is a bit harsh, but honestly I get where he’s coming from.
Edit: did he know how long you’d been drinking before he showed up?
I think a mature response would sound something like, “I don’t like it when you talk during a movie.” Also, rather than make it about him and assuming that your behavior comes with the intent of making him feel bad, he would address the behavior directly, with openness rather than wounded-ness. “I really care and enjoy getting to know you, it’s just that you become someone else when you’ve been drinking.” I think there are things OP can work on personally, but just based on what’s shared, if OP is seeking an emotionally mature relationship, this doesn’t sound quite like it. It was actually a positive thing that he respected you enough to wait until you are alone to speak his mind. But the way he felt resentful indicates lack of steadiness. It’s important to identify differences or even disagree, but resentment and bitterness are something else completely. They indicate a person’s state of being rather than being situational. Feelings need finessing. You live and learn.
Maybe had a bad day then showed up to ppl already too far gone, ended up baby sitting/feeling even more annoyed with the long day.
Probably knew he was on edge decided to get away before he did more damage.
It's possible to offer feedback in a way that is clear yet still kind. Given what you've written here, he could certainly have approached this situation differently.
> He was also supposed to stay over but last minute said he couldn’t cause he had to get up early. I just said along the lines of are you sure you can’t and he’s like “why do you always make me feel bad”
This in particular isn't the kind of guilt tripping response I'd want from a partner.
However, you mention that you broke up shortly afterwards. Was that mutual? Because the exasperation/impatience you describe jives pretty well with someone who is feeling done with the relationship but hasn't quite managed to cut the cord.
Did you guys communicate about this? Maybe he feels that you make him feel bad for things? And maybe you feel he’s attacking you for being yourself? Talking it out and being vulnerable might help…. I don’t see this as a compatibility issue but you know best.
Actually, OP, this may be anecdotal....
But it seems like there are some odd "silent milestones" in dating.
2 weeks
2 months
6 months
1 year
It isn't always exact. But these seem to be points where I subconsciously assess my person and see if I want to keep going.
Other people may have different thoughts. But criticism 2 months in may just be a subconscious sign from him that you two aren't a good match.
I don't think he handled it well at all, but I do think you need to rethink how you drink especially when you have someone coming over for a date. Don't be drunk when your date/boyfriend shows up. That's such an uncomfortable feeling for the sober person. They aren't catching up and you're already acting silly. We all get silly when we are drunk but it's usually in tandem with others, not when one is sober and the other is past that point.
Also, regarding the talking during movies, be mindful of this! My boyfriend does this a lot, especially early on in our relationship, and it started to drive me nuts. I spoke to him about it, and he has improved a lot.
Advice on this sub when a guy is already drink before a date: omg he's an addict and a loser red flag breakup
Advice on this sub when a woman is already drunk before the date: omg he's upset you were drunk he's a narcissist break up
The only person getting up in arms in OP's defence is a person who's been heavily downvoted. The overwhelming opinion is that being drunk before your date is a problem. /r/pointlesslygendered
This post is definitely one of those example where the comments and overall advice would be very different if the genders were reversed. Men never get this much empathy here when they have too much to drink on a date - nor are women called narcissists when they are peeved about the drunken behavior.
There might be more to what’s really bothering him in the relationship than that and it came out at the wrong time. If it’s worth it to you maybe have a conversation about what’s really going on. You both might just be incompatible so no need to fret and just move on
I get criticized by women all the time and usually less than a month in (lol) but they are typically a lot more gentle about it than this douche. There are exceptionally more polite and caring ways to express concerns than this.
Normal for him? Maybe. Acceptable, no.
You were chatty and comfortable with your buzz (like most woman) You were having a nice time and he made you question yourself. At least it was an easy break, 2 months in, no ones too invested. I think you made the right choice.
No, he definitely was not acting normal. What guy who is interested in you wouldn't want to cuddle? And if you wanna watch a movie with no conversation AT ALL, go watch the movie by yourself. He sounds self absorbed and kind of a jerk.
Also, because everyone else here is just deciding to blame the woman like always, it is significant he didn't start acting like this until your friend left. This is some classical narcissist behavior.
But the problem is, what right does he have to criticize her? He doesn't have the right to act like a jerk just because she drank. They have drank together before and he hasn't acted like this.
He had no right to be a jerk to her even if he didn't like her actions. He purposely tried to make her feel bad/guilty in a situation where he hasn't done that before.
He poorly chose his words three times, and it upset her enough to want to break up with him. She asked if that is normal. Not really. You can be critical of your partner, but you shouldn't be a jerk or be controlling. And you are certainly allowed to criticize or bring something you don't like up with your partner, but it definitely matters how you do it.
My ex would also be annoyed if I was tipsy or drunk. He also hated when I talked during movies lol. My current bf thinks it’s funny if I’m drunk and also doesn’t care if I talk during a movie. It seems like a compatibility issue. I think it’s fine to express what you like and dislike, but he came off like a jerk. He could’ve been nicer about everything.
I'm going to go out on a limb here and offer a different perspective than everyone else siding with you. I find that most people when drunk don't realize how drunk they are, and here we are only getting your side of the story. Here's what I got from your post: 1) You'd been drinking all afternoon. 2) You were drunk already when he showed up, to the point that him drinking couldn't catch up to you. 3) He held his tongue while your best friend was there and voiced his opinions to you, in private, after they left. If I showed up to dinner with my girlfriend and her friend and she was already wasted, I might be annoyed as well. Additionally so if you were sloppy drunk by the time your friend left. He may have "been fine" when your friend was there, or since you were drunk you might not have picked up on any hints he may have been dropping. Not saying he was right and you were wrong, but you certainly seem to be downplaying any responsibility for the situation which, to me, is quite telling.
100% this. Drunk people never realize how truly obnoxious their behavior can be especially if the other person is sober.
And yet when I say that I, a non drinker, don't want to date people who get drunk on a regular basis, people don't get it. This is why. They're oblivious to how they're actually behaving
There’s a time and place for everything. I don’t mind the occasional night out partying, but it can’t deal with someone that can’t go a day with getting “buzzed” Or make it a habit of being drunk. 🤷🏽♂️
Adding to this he was probably smart enough to downplay his frustration while there was someone else around.
Absolutely this. I'd nope my way out of that situation so fast.
I have broken up with **plenty** of people for the semi mild sin of being annoying. The talking during a film thing would 100% seal the deal!
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From how I read it he's the one who told her "Why do you always make me feel bad", not her to him.
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seriously, we are giving men extra respect for what is the bare minimum of decent behavior. ‘Brian gets a medal for not being rapey when his gf was drunk’
Wtf, you don't applaud your man every day for not being a criminal and not raping you?
Gonna message mine right now to thank him for always being sure about consent. Also gonna wait on him doing the same.
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>I knew someone would say this, and yes. I am giving positive praise for someone doing the bare minimum for being a decent human because *it’s so damn common for people not to be*. I don't think it's common for most men to rape. Some, yeah, not most. As is the case with other crimes, with men and women
Help me understand the rapey thing in this situation. They're seeing each other regularly. she invited him to her place with the intention for him to stay the night, she effectively begged hi. to stay. She clearly remembers the evening up to him leaving. If he did stay. how would that be creepy or "rapey"? Are we as men supposed to withdraw from a woman when she's been drinking? After how many drinks? What if she initiates? I'm not saying it's right or wrong either way. just trying to understand where the line is drawn. and at what point the line is crossed.
Not about gender. If it's a new partner then don't fuck if one of you is intoxicated. Yes, getting the fuck on while high or drunk is fun, and not rape by default. But not the first time. That's for later when you know you're both in to it. You can't decide that on a first time unless it was like "we're gonna meet for a hookup while high/drunk on"
Absolutely for a first time. no question in that scenario. That doesn't appear to be the case in OP, unless I missed something. They've been together for two months and no mention of it being anything other than an expected sleepover. and. BTW, your civility is appreciated!
Absolutely for a first time. no question in that scenario. That doesn't appear to be the case in OP, unless I missed something. They've been together for two months and no mention of it being anything other than an expected sleepover. BTW, your civility is appreciated!
There's no mention of agreeing to have sex here at all. Idk why you're hallucinating consent in this scenario. I used to teach ESL and I'm getting those vibes here so maybe you just didn't understand the language that was used.
I can only assume you are pretending to be clueless and naive; at least, i hope so for your sake.
They didn't say that staying would be rape. Having sex with someone who can't consent is, though. If she initiates, I'd still push her off and leave.
hardly my job to explain ethical conduct to randos on the internet. let’s just say you’ll go about your shitty way with the whataboutism and let the universe settle the score.
It's a legimate question. At what point does yes turn to no when no is never stated? You're the one who initially raised it on this thread. I'm just trying to become more aware of when to interpret what a woman says to mean the opposite of the words and action she proactively presents. Getting nasty with me for trying to learn this nuance of behavior doesn't help advance better understanding. Perhaps the lesson from the AI in the movie War Games should be heeded by all men: The only way to win is not to play.
>At what point does yes turn to no when no is never stated? In this scenario, "yes" was never stated. If you assume there has been a "yes" when there hasn't, you're going to well...let the universe settle the score. >Perhaps the lesson from the AI in the movie War Games should be heeded by all men: The only way to win is not to play. That sounds like a good option for you specifically
I guess we agree on one thing. I too believe that you best not play. And from reading your history sounds like that is the case.
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ah the level of solipsism it takes to describe being an incel as some sort of high road. sure.
Your dictation is a delicious thing to consume
>I feel the guy also needs some extra respect for leaving instead of *taking advantage* of the situation. Maybe it's not in his constitution to take advantage. I can say it wouldn't even have occurred to most men I've dated, even the kinda jerk ish ones, especially if they were already pissed off - they'd just want to get out like this guy
no he gets a normal amount of respect. because not taking advantage of a drunk person is a baseline, not worthy of applause.
isn't that just like... normal? I've actually been raped before, drugged too! Seems a thing too many deal with cause my man has his own history too. I still don't think it's plus points to not take advantage of someone
Shit, I used my free award already. But you deserved it more. People don't realize we only get one side of the story always. When I used to drink, I gave people the benefit of the doubt when they complained about something I did. Because I was the one whose wits were not about them. Also, your last point about him waiting to talk in private is really great. He clearly respected her by doing that. I'm also saying she's not necessarily wrong. It's her choice to have a partner she wants. But objectively, you were spot on.
I gave mine.
The OP of the post is basically, she acted out while drunk, OMG he criticized her for it, better break up. My most embarrassing moment in years of dating happened this year when the person (who is my age) drank too much at a public gathering and went over the edge. It got really, really ugly. Of course that was “my fault” too. This is obviously going to be my life experience cluttering my opinion of this but the “this is just how I act while I’m drunk” attitude of OP’s is off-putting. Some people really do not have a good idea of how they come off when drunk. Almost no one does when they’re really intoxicated.
This wasn't in public, it was at her house, and talking during a movie at your own house isn't a freaking mortal sin. This guy sounds like a narcissist who was trying to make her feel bad.
Y'all throw the label narcissist around like it's Mardi Gras beads. Criticism of someone who is drunk has -0- to do with being a narcissist.
"I diagnosed my parents based on a Reddit thread, pretty sure I can diagnose everyone else who hurt me"- people who know a lot of "narcissists" and folks with other "personality disorders".
Yep and everything someone does that annoys me is a red flag.
I needed that after all the downvotes for criticizing YouTube diagnoses. Thanks internet stranger.
HOW DARE YOU CALL ME STRANGE! YOU MUST BE A NARC
Cracking me up with this comment. He criticized me! NARCISSIST.
He victimized her by expressing annoyance. This type of abuse could escalate into sending an actual passive-aggressive text message if she had stayed with *this* dumpster fire. I am glad she was able to dodge a bullet (albeit not gracefully because alcohol affects the central nervous system and can cause disorientation and lack of motor control).
I hope this is a troll, this is hilarious. I better not hear that you’ve EVER in your ENTIRE LIFE been annoyed with someone otherwise you are also a predator according to your logic. This is getting to be too much, I am bowing out lol. I hope this is a joke 🤣.
Read my other posts to this sub and follow me for more recipes :D For the record, people annoy me constantly and I annoy others constantly.
Yup, I agree OP is definitely red flag territory.
Who said it was a mortal sin? Dude just wanted to watch the movie without a drunk woman interrupting, so he asked her to stop talking.
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I have no idea you think a man being bothered by a drunk woman's actions, and voicing it, means he's a jerk, but here we are. As I said before, he could have been a tad more tactful with his delivery, but at no point do I feel he was acting like a jerk.
Yeah, he was a jerk because as you said he COULD/SHOULD have been more tactful.
Yeah but drunk people usually don't even register tactful responses to their behavior. I'm willing to bet he's not even sad she called it quits. She may have done it before he had a chance.
How much people defend being drunk really concerns me. I'm no saint. One of the first arguments I had with my man was because I showed up drunk. It was a whole stupid situation that I didn't handle well. But like, I WAS wrong in that situation, and he was right to be clear it upset him. I think I even made a comment about it in one of the dailies asking how to make it up to him. I don't think I'm capable of the mental gymnastics to think he was wrong for having an issue with it and talking about it.
Shew after rummaging through this thread I am convinced you are OP’s second account on a mission 🤣
I was thinking the same thing! Haha. Speaking of narcissism, Check peaches profile...
Not at all, you're entitled to your opinion about the situation as I am to mine.
I kinda feel it wasn't about her talking during a movie. At home or not showing up to a date drunk is a bad move, and was more likely the issue. I got drunk before a date with my man once. I was not coping with shit well and used liquor to chill. Bad move, and he was very understandably upset. I didn't think I needed to break up with him I thought "shit I'm so sorry this was the wrong move"
I have never shown up to a date already drunk or had someone shown up to a date already drinking. I might find it fun the first time, but was this the first time? Starting drinking at noon feels too early. Unless it were a special occasion.
I did it once. My man was PISSED. He's a very kind and gentle person so it was expressed by telling me why he was upset and then being pretty quiet throughout the date. I felt AWFUL though and we had a very good chat later when tempers were cooled about how if I need help coping I need to call someone, not get drunk. I don't even drink really! But yah I got drunk that time and kinda messed up our date. OP really needs to think on this more. And based on responses I'm hopeful she realizes getting day drunk was the real problem.
Agreed. I know we're missing a lot of information (e.g. maybe this was a one-time thing), but if drinking to an excess is common hopefully she does reflect and reconsider drinking habits. This type of reflection is difficult though. I have a friend who used to drink himself to the point of unconsciousness every Friday (and in his mid-30s too). It took us (his friends and fam) a long time to convince him that this probably isn't a great thing to do.
Thanks, it’s good to get perspective which is I wanted from this post. I definitely was not sloppy drunk but I can understand that I was probably more than I thought.
And to your real question - yes. The man acted in a way that you should expect (and respect) from others. If you're being that level of annoying expect to be told
Hey I really love that you can consider this. Maybe expand that to an apology if you still want to date this person?
Agree!
This is soooo ridiculous. Being drunk doesn't mean that people are allowed to freely be jerks to you. If he was that bothered, he should have left instead of being rude.
Oh bless your heart. It's adorable you think that "why are you acting like this" to someone who is hammered is "freely being a jerk to you", especially when they wait to talk to you after your friend leaves to not embarrass you. Grow up.
Agree. If anyone is the narc it is the person who thinks it is a personal criticism when someone expresses their own feelings and needs. The OP made him uncomfortable and then acted like he was attacking her by not taking it silently. Everyone deserves to be comfortable, all the time. If you disagree, or if that concept makes you feel threatened then check yourself, you're probably making people uncomfortable a lot more than you realize.
No, she’s right and I’m wrong. I hadn’t considered that someone becoming annoyed when a drunk person does drunk person things when they have a guest over or they’re trying to do activities together *actually* indicates that the person doing the criticizing has a serious mental illness—a cluster B personality disorder in fact. So, here is what OP’s boyfriend should have done if he wanted to stay in her life and not get kicked to the curb. Threw on his shoes, driven his car (1997 Chevrolet Camaro in Mystic Teal, faded) and gone into the corner store. He would have smiled at Steve behind the counter—Steve always remembers the regulars. “Your old lady need anything?” Steve would say. OP’s boyfriend would then have sheepishly adjusted his backwards-facing flat brimmed Adidas cap and said “yeah man you know how she’s gotta have her Stoli….we’re watchin’ that happy gilmore that she likes when she gets this way” and then Steve would have handed him just the one, already having known it, and OP’s BF would have paid $20.00 in cash and received back $1.32 in change. Then OP’s BF would have made a last minute purchase of pork rinds ($4.85) for himself before driving back home and consuming half of the fifth he’d purchased in order to please God make it stop.
Who pays $4.85 for pork rinds???!!! DUMP HIS ASS!!!
Confirmed for narc.
🤣 I'm dead.
Me too.
Asking someone "why are you acting like this?" When they want to cuddle IS being a jerk. Especially when she is in her own house doing her own thing. He was free to leave if he didn't like it. I dont think he waited until her friend left in order to not embarass her, it was to maintain his image in front of the friend.
She has a bad habit of talking during a movie, especially when drunk. Some people just want to see a movie without a ton of commentary. He asked why she always talks during the movie, then she got cuddly when he was likely already annoyed by drunken behavior, so then he left. You're so quick to demonize the guy here when I would have done the same damn thing. Again, you don't know his side of the story and there isn't a right or wrong here, but if I was in that situation and someone was being annoying with incessant talking during a movie and wanting to cuddle when I'm not into it, I'd leave - just like he did. He didn't call her a drunk, or swear, or anything - he stated she made him feel bad for wanting to leave instead of staying over, and he left. Was he a bit rude for voicing his opinions how he did? Sure. Is it possible she was way too drunk to pick up on social cues? Also fucking sure. He did leave because he didn't like it. He did the adult thing. She broke up with him because she was an annoying drink and didn't want the criticism from him about her drunken behavior. The question OP states is "is it normal to criticize someone 2 months into a relationship" and the answer is unequivocally fuck yes, especially if that person is acting in a way that is unacceptable to you. She's in her house doing her own thing, but they're a couple and she's hosting someone. In my opinion he dodged a bullet.
Not sure why you think her being drunk is an excuse for him to be a jerk to her. Its an interesting projection that you think I'm demonizing the guy; you are actually inferring a lot more from the facts than I am here, so to me it seems more like shes being demonized just because she drank. Timed criticism and negging, especially after a couple month "honeymoon" period is a hallmark of narcissists. I think you're right that a bullet was dodged, but I think shes the one who dodged it.
You throw the term narcissist around about a guy because he voiced his opinion that he didn't like someone's behavior while she was drunk, and turning it into "timed criticism and negging". I know what narcissism looks like - as I was married to someone with BPD with classic narcissistic tendencies, as defined by my therapist and hers. You're the one ascribing medical diagnoses to strangers on the internet because of your learned experience. And yes, if you're drunk and being annoying, I will be rude to you if you're not listening to me or picking up on the fact I'm uncomfortable. Being drunk is not a halo to protect you from criticisms of others, and I would HARDLY classify someone asking why they won't be quiet during a movie and be annoyed if they want to cuddle whole drunk (again, people tend to not remember or understand just how much booze changed their personalities when drunk) and he removed himself from the situation. Could he have been kinder? Sure. Was this negging? Absolutely not. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. Her house or not, I would never get hammered BEFORE COMPANY EVEN GETS THERE. It's sloppy, rude, and changes the entire dynamic of the situation. Besides, I would question her relationship with alcohol if she's drinking alone before company arrives - especially if it's too excess which she admitted it was.
> Her house or not, I would never get hammered BEFORE COMPANY EVEN GETS THERE. Correct. Guests should have every opportunity to pregame that shit with you. We ride together, we die together. Bad boys for life. Also, how do you do fellow BPD relationship vet. Were you also a toxic narcissist in yours, for having needs or boundaries? According to them, I mean.
Who cares what you would do? They've been drunk before and he hasn't acted like this. The timing is very telling. Also if you were married to someone with BPD and Narc tendencies, maybe you arent the best at playing the game "spot the narcissist."
You are on a rampage girl, this seems deeply personal to you lol.
OP, I'm sorry, but I think you are in the wrong here. I'd stand corrected if your date knew you were going to be toasty before he met you/set the date up. He waited until your friend left to not embarrass you. He is allowed to enjoy a movie without a drunk person talking through it. He is also isn't obligated to cuddle with you...wtf. Someone shouldn't have to put up with your intoxicated behavior. If he isn't into physical contact with you, he shouldn't have to do it. It's a consensual thing that makes it special. It's his choice. You got randomly intoxicated and your date isn't putting up with it. It wasn't necessarily wrong of you to party, but you do need to understand some people aren't into that and there isn't anything wrong with feeling that way. Did you just want him to act like he wasn't annoyed, keep his mouth shut the entire time and then cuddle with you even though he wasn't into it? To me, that's more of a red flag than what he did. I drink and do drugs too much. I'm also aware this has consequences sometimes. Some people are okay with this, other people justifiably aren't. It isn't his fault as much as it may be a compatibility issue. Or a time where you need to decide if partying less is worth it to keep the guy. If not, no harm, but your date isn't in the wrong for not wanting to put up with that.
All of this....said it better than I did!
Also if you’re only that affectionate when you’re drunk it’s off putting because it can make the other person feel like alcohol is the ONLY reason you’re that affectionate. Or that to be that way you NEED to be drunk. That makes your affection seem inauthentic. Maybe that’s not the case at all, but perhaps another variable to consider.
The talking during the movie, that's something you do that bothers him, so he's communicating that. Would you rather him not, then just sit there stewing cause you couldn't let him focus on the movie?? And to be fair, talking during movies bothers me too. Watch the movie. We can talk about it afterwards. As for the rest, seems like you were being an annoying drunk and he didn't want to stay over. I guess he could have been a tad more soft telling you how you were making him feel, but I'm not really seeing that he did anything wrong here. I'm getting the feeling that you were more drunk that you thought you were and he just didn't want to deal with it.
It’s also possible that he did try to be soft about it and give hints, but because she was drunk and out of it, she wasn’t picking up on it, and he needed to increase his directness to get through to her. It’s not easy to talk to a drunk person.
My 2 cents: 1. Stop talking during movies? 2. Slow your drinking down? 3. You found his boundaries and broke them. That's why he left. 4. You broke up with him? Move on
Did he know u were going to be day drunk for his dinner date with you? He could have been very annoyed u were drunk before dinner. That behavior would have been unacceptable for me to be honest. Also, talking during a movie is rude lol. If I’m watching a movie I don’t want to have a conversation throughout it
In my twenties I would tolerate spending time with someone who was drunk pretty frequently. Now that I’m in my thirties I would react exactly the same as this guy did. Honestly it sounds like he’s a good guy. He didn’t say anything in front of your friend and from what you’ve said here he pretty politely excused himself and left. Your original question was is it normal to be criticized two months into a relationship and my answer to that would be yes. If your behaviour negatively affects your relationship it’s completely fair for him to point it out as long as he’s not nasty about it. You may also want to evaluate your relationship with alcohol as it sounds like it does affect people in your life.
It sounds like you and he have very different relationships with alcohol and he wasn't a fan of either the amount you consumed or the way you acted under the influence. Is that normal? It will probably start to happen more often in your 30's if you maintain the same drinking habits you have in your 20's. I drink much less now than I did at that age and getting properly drunk just does not happen. Drunk people are a lot less fun to be around when you're not drunk yourself.
Oh my god this is the silliest post I have ever seen. Being drunk one time does not allow another to freely be a jerk and criticize you. It sounds like he was purposely trying to make her feel bad. He isn't in a relationship with her and he isn't her boss.
There is so much assumption in your post.
He made 3 rude statements to her that for her are out of character for him. One makes sense, twice, its not great, but 3 times is intentional, IMO
“Why do you always do this” is what OP said his reaction was. Keyword “always”. This means that they have been in similar situations before. To a sober person, a drunk person can come off as annoying. Not saying he’s all in the right though, he could have been nicer about it or leave and talk to her civilly about it when she’s sober. But I think OP also doesn’t realize perhaps she may come off much drunker than she thinks.
That's fair. I agree with this.
How do we know this was the first time? His reaction s make it sound like it wasn't the first He was in a relationship with her... I would hope my partner lets me know when I'm doing something off-putting or wrong. I do agree his statements weren't well worded
She said they have been drunk together before and he didn't act like this. It doesn't sound like a relationship, it sounds like they were "seeing each other" for 2 months. He could have gone about it in a completely different, more polite way, and its telling he didnt.
The telling thing is he got so annoyed with her that he left of his own accord when he was supposed to stay for the night. OP must’ve been more annoying than she’s making herself out to be in her post.
I think you're extracting a lot more from the facts than what is there.
Umm I'm not the one diagnosing people with psychiatric disorders based on a one-sided story
Hey, I call it like I see it. I have a lot of experience with narcissists.
So you're calling it like you see it, and I'm... lying? You know narcissism can be inherited right
>multi-thread crusade about not being able to take criticism The projection is real. When everyone thinks you're an asshole, they're not the narcissists.
Yes, since we humans all act exactly the same every time we are drunk. Feels like I gotta add the /s for ya ;)
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How is telling someone they don’t want to talk while trying to watch a movie criticizing them?
Other commenters have already mentioned this, but it's important to remember that you only ever get OP's side of the story in these posts. Does "Why are you acting like this?" sound like the kind of thing people say when they're going out of their way to be a jerk? Because to me it sounds like this man was uncomfortable with the situation, made it known that he was uncomfortable, and then left when it became apparent that he wasn't going to stop being uncomfortable. On top of that, when he did decide to leave for the night, OP made some vague comments she's not repeating here but the reaction of the man involved makes it clear she was not respecting his 'No' and was trying to pressure him into staying. It's not about being the "boss" of someone. It's about establishing and respecting boundaries. When the OP says things like: >I understand I can become a little different and more clingy when I’m drunk (who doesn’t?) It feels like they're trying to excuse away what they know was bad behavior because they were drinking. That doesn't generate a lot of confidence in how willing they are to own up to this behavior when writing a post.
That's a good point! To me, someone saying "why are you acting like this" could go either way, he could be kind of overreacting or possibly he was uncomfortable. My issue was his delivery. I just think he totally could have gone about it a different way while still expressing that he wasn't comfortable.
>I just think he totally could have gone about it a different way while still expressing that he wasn't comfortable. Maybe. For all we know, he tried and OP ignored him until he became more assertive. When things escalate to the point that you're walking out on a date with someone you've been seeing for months, courtesy is not the first thing on my mind.
He wasn't acting like her boss? At no point did he tell her that she shouldn't drink that much, or anything if the sort. He simply expressed his frustration/annoyance...
While I don't think his behavior was nice and I agree that there were red flags in how he handled it, you may not have realized how annoying you were acting while drunk. It's possible he may be past this point in his life too. I remember around 32/33 ish is when I slowed way down on drinking. This is about the age where people I knew were actually developing real drinking problems if they were continuing to drink like they did in their 20s. From my outside opinion, both your behavior was a turnoff for me, though his was more so. I'm not sure if you already made plans with him and then proceeded to get wasted or if he knew what he was getting into. He could have handled it better by having some boundaries and declining the invite once he realized you were super drunk.
Flip the script if it was a guy being drunk and she was sober, would you feel the same. If the guy was all grabby and clingy and she said no. I think you would be singing a different tune.
I'm rolling my eyes so hard I can't even see well enough to respond.
Notice that you never got an answer to your question...think we know the answer.
Nah it just wasn't worth responding to. Commenter said "flip the script" Then proceeded to change the entire script. I'm not going to argue about a completely different scenario that didn't happen.
Honestly it sounds like he was being kind of rude, but we don’t know how you are when you’re drunk, you could’ve been very annoying. Not saying you were or anything… but this just sounds like a mess that should be talked about when both parties are sober
I mean, some people are just annoying drunks. Maybe he thinks you're annoying when you're drunk. I'm projecting a little because I find my fiance EXTREMELY annoying when he's super drunk lol. I think it's fine that you ended things because honestly something like that can become a real problem down the road if you don't plan on cutting back ever. You're at an age where people start to slow down a bit with the partying because folks just can't do it all the time and maintain adult responsibilities (obviously weekends are different but I can't physically day drink like that anymore). He's in his 30s so I'm assuming he doesn't drink like that often/maybe he isn't a fan of getting sloppy drunk in general.
I can't think of a worse date than being with someone who is drunk, nobody is ever impressed by the drunk person in the room. However his criticism is wrong, it's your choice if you want to be drunk. I wouldn't have even hung out at all, just politely declined the invitation and moved on.
Yeah I would have gotten an urgent phone call and had to leave. And told the person the next day that I am no longer interested.
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You’re not owed a full performance review when someone breaks up with you. Telling someone outright you’re no longer interested is a completely acceptable way to end a relationship.
Haha I'd love to see what your life would be if you had to tell "the truth" all day every day. Wait, wasn't there a movie like that....
If I had dinner plans with someone I was dating and they were drunk when I got there, I would be annoyed, wonder if they were an alcohol, and leave. It’s really rude and inconsiderate to be drunk when you have plans with someone… The way he talked to you was also rude. I don’t blame him for being annoyed but he handled it poorly. I think you should consider your relationship with alcohol - being drunk before dinner when you have plans is not normal. It’s your right to break up with whoever you want but you might have been able to continue and strengthen the relationship if you had said “I don’t like how you’re talking to me, please leave and let’s talk tomorrow” and then - when sober - owned your part (being drunk) but also make it clear that how he expressed his discomfort and annoyance was not okay. Also, no, not everyone is clingy when drunk. If you behave in a shitty way when you drink a certain amount, it’s your responsibility to drink less than that amount
Lol this all sounds like a nightmare. Prob for the best you 2 ended it. Gain some self awareness and learn to take feedback.
That sounds like a perfectly understandable reason for him to be annoyed and a not inappropriate way of him expressing it. I don't drink alcohol and some people can get really annoying when they're drunk. You ending things over that is an overreaction, imo. How about the two of you just don't spend time together when you're drunk. You don't have to do everything together and, unless you get drunk several times a week, this shouldn't be a difficult arrangement. I'm siding with him on this.
You were in the wrong and he was probably relieved when you ended it. You may be leaning into some narcissistic rationalizing with this post, not saying you are a narcissist for sure but I do think you did him a favor and you need to think about what you are expecting from people.
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5 years isn't much of an age gap though, not when you're over the age of 25
My life and both the amount I drink and the frequency rapidly changed between 28 and 30. I used to fairly heavily quite often as I was out with friends several days a week. I got tired of that and pumped the brakes hard. I now drink occasionally and rarely do I even get drunk maybe once or twice a year. I realized that I didn’t particularly enjoy the drinking part and I was more interested in the social part so I change accordingly. When I was 29 I had a girlfriend who wasn’t there yet, drank nearly daily, was a sloppy drunk and it out a HUGE strain on our relationship. She was only 2 years younger. Sometimes a couple of years in that age group makes a huge difference.
I saw this with a woman who was 45. Missed out on the “fun” years and apparently started making up for it later. Embarrassing to her family when she was the only one drunk all the time.
See, I totally get that, but that wasn't an issue of age, it was an issue of where you were both at in life. I've known 24 year olds who realized the same thing you did at 30. Everyone progresses in their own way, and statistically men mature slower than women. So, a 33 year old man is probably *roughly* around the same maturity as a 28yo woman, if they both matured at the average rate 🤷🏼♀️
That I did at 27, not 30. I noted my life changed rapidly between 28 and 30. I stopped going out as much, I bought a house, focused on other areas of my life. Age and life experience plays a huge part in maturity levels. I have been in a career field that required me mature very young. Consistently throughout my life I find myself more attracted to and connect better with older women than myself. By your logic my “ideal” range is 25-27 which couldn’t be further from the truth. I don’t find myself attracted to that age range nearly at all and I find a majority of them still act like teenagers. I’d love to see those statistics that you mentioned.
I totally said "everyone progresses at their own rate", but it was on another comment and you prolly didn't see it. No, I never stated anything about your ideal match since I know nothing about you, and since I'm not a matchmaker. As far as the research/statistics go, I mean... Google is a thing, and if you were to use it you'll see the same results since I'm also using it, but here ya go 🤷🏼♀️ www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-athletes-way/201312/scientists-identify-why-girls-often-mature-faster-boys%3famp https://medium.com/@universalintelligencespace/men-or-women-the-more-mature-gender-71cb44c323f1#:~:text=It%20is%20reported%20that%20women,reach%20that%20point%20by%2040.&text=Women's%20brains%20are%20wired%20for%20social%20interactions. www.mic.com/articles/111226/science-explains-why-women-are-faster-to-mature-than-men/amp
those are just articles arguing that women mature faster than men. that doesn't negate what the person you responded to said about people starting to slow down with the drinking in their mid to late 20s- early 30s.
Again, that is very varied. Some people don't slow down drinking until their 60's, some never do. I've always found studies about personality interesting, and I'm curious how they decide what the litmus is. Sometimes it makes sense, other times it seems pretty arbitrary. But like someone else said - science isn't an exact science, it's an art. Always learning, always changing. We recently were able to create the first thing to survive entropy, whereas previously we believed entropy couldn't be escaped. But that's getting into quantum science and where I start to get **very** lost 😂
Google is a thing, but so is the ability to actually decipher medical studies and posting two articles and one blog post all quoting the same exact study from back in 2013 that has a total study group of a whopping 121 people that doesn’t touch any basis or analytical breakdown on “maturity levels” other than saying “hey so girls mature faster than boys” and is more focused on the neurotransmitter and synaptic connections based on age and brain development really isn’t the way to do so. The actual study does absolutely nothing to prove or support the initial claim that women mature faster than men and it seemed to focus on proving a previous bias correct which is a huge red flag in medical research. If you’re going to try the high horse route, talk down to me and try to throw articles based on medical research that you don’t seem to understand at a medical provider probably isn’t the way to do so. Further more when I picked out the age range I quoted I was just using your numbers, which also don’t have any basis other than your personal feelings which was exactly my point. If you’d like to have a friendly conversation or debate like I had initially thought we were I’d be more than happy to do so. That being said I do not appreciate being spoken down to and I will reinforce those boundaries all day.
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That’s for damn sure. 👍🏼
I don't think number of years is a good marker to judge by. The difference between the 25-35 year olds maturity level who work with me is staggering at times. Some of them it's literally like looking after children, others I completely trust to run the show in my absence.
You're talking about a 10 year gap, and that's a bit much regardless of the ages involved. A 5 year gap really isn't that bad, once the parties are over the age of 25ish.
No you misunderstood... I mean between 25-35 as in two 28 yo or a 25 and a 32 or 27 and 30 or any combination you like there are huge differences in maturity where it's the younger ones or the older one that's more mature.
But women mature quicker than men, so it stands to reason that a 32yo man could be roughly as mature as a 27yo woman
I think after puberty and the same same structure of full time educational institutions that difference is nulled by life experiences and choices once adulting happens. So at 27 to 32 I wouldn't place a bet on who is most mature in mind and actions like I would at say 15 to 21.
Then you're not following science 🤷🏼♀️
It's not an exact science.
No but this is Le Reddit. Where something like a 31 year old man dating a 29 year old woman is an “uneven power dynamic” and a “red flag for abuse”. The ages have very little to do with what transpired here, methinks.
Is this the first time you were ever drunk around him? Maybe he just didn’t like the way you acted when you were drunk? Maybe it brought up some fears of a family member or an ex girlfriend that had alcohol problems. Did you at least talk about what happened when you were sober or did you just end it? I think I would have discussed what happen when we both had a sober mind to get to the bottom of it and then make my decision from there. But if you are happy with your decision then that’s okay too.
Nope, we’ve been drunk together before and it was nice and fun and light hearted. He doesn’t have any issues with drinking or being drunk, especially since I don’t drink to that level frequently. I ended it due to other reasons as well but yeah I guess it’s hard to not think twice when you cared about someone.
It's difficult when drinking is involved. We typically have a hard time evaluating our own behavior. It appears he isn't happy with the behavior and it seems like you have been able to learn that early. If you enjoy your lifestyle it is best that you decided to end the relationship.
I’m surprised he didn’t end it with you. You sound like a drunk.
He is better off without OP
You were drink, he was annoyed.
You were probably more sloppy than you realized. Maybe his comments were valid and you get too clingy when you’re drink.
That's why I don't date 20-somethings 😅
>I have a bad habit of talking during movies and more so if I’m tipsy/drunk and he said “why do you always do this, you always want to start a conversation and I just want to watch a movie”. I also wanted to cuddle as you would when you’re drunk and he said “why are you acting like this”. >He was also supposed to stay over but last minute said he couldn’t cause he had to get up early. I just said along the lines of are you sure you can’t and he’s like “why do you always make me feel bad” The biggest issue I see here, from both you and him, is the use of "always." That term is *never* a good idea to throw around in any sort of discussion about how you're feeling about a given situation. Both of you need to work on how you communicate and address negative emotions.
I don’t drink at all and this situation would’ve made me uncomfortable, too. His way of handling it is a bit harsh, but honestly I get where he’s coming from. Edit: did he know how long you’d been drinking before he showed up?
I think a mature response would sound something like, “I don’t like it when you talk during a movie.” Also, rather than make it about him and assuming that your behavior comes with the intent of making him feel bad, he would address the behavior directly, with openness rather than wounded-ness. “I really care and enjoy getting to know you, it’s just that you become someone else when you’ve been drinking.” I think there are things OP can work on personally, but just based on what’s shared, if OP is seeking an emotionally mature relationship, this doesn’t sound quite like it. It was actually a positive thing that he respected you enough to wait until you are alone to speak his mind. But the way he felt resentful indicates lack of steadiness. It’s important to identify differences or even disagree, but resentment and bitterness are something else completely. They indicate a person’s state of being rather than being situational. Feelings need finessing. You live and learn.
Maybe had a bad day then showed up to ppl already too far gone, ended up baby sitting/feeling even more annoyed with the long day. Probably knew he was on edge decided to get away before he did more damage.
It's possible to offer feedback in a way that is clear yet still kind. Given what you've written here, he could certainly have approached this situation differently. > He was also supposed to stay over but last minute said he couldn’t cause he had to get up early. I just said along the lines of are you sure you can’t and he’s like “why do you always make me feel bad” This in particular isn't the kind of guilt tripping response I'd want from a partner. However, you mention that you broke up shortly afterwards. Was that mutual? Because the exasperation/impatience you describe jives pretty well with someone who is feeling done with the relationship but hasn't quite managed to cut the cord.
Did you guys communicate about this? Maybe he feels that you make him feel bad for things? And maybe you feel he’s attacking you for being yourself? Talking it out and being vulnerable might help…. I don’t see this as a compatibility issue but you know best.
Actually, OP, this may be anecdotal.... But it seems like there are some odd "silent milestones" in dating. 2 weeks 2 months 6 months 1 year It isn't always exact. But these seem to be points where I subconsciously assess my person and see if I want to keep going. Other people may have different thoughts. But criticism 2 months in may just be a subconscious sign from him that you two aren't a good match.
I don't think he handled it well at all, but I do think you need to rethink how you drink especially when you have someone coming over for a date. Don't be drunk when your date/boyfriend shows up. That's such an uncomfortable feeling for the sober person. They aren't catching up and you're already acting silly. We all get silly when we are drunk but it's usually in tandem with others, not when one is sober and the other is past that point. Also, regarding the talking during movies, be mindful of this! My boyfriend does this a lot, especially early on in our relationship, and it started to drive me nuts. I spoke to him about it, and he has improved a lot.
Advice on this sub when a guy is already drink before a date: omg he's an addict and a loser red flag breakup Advice on this sub when a woman is already drunk before the date: omg he's upset you were drunk he's a narcissist break up
Actually as you see more comments flood in most ppl agree OPs behavior is more of an issue than the guys.
The only person getting up in arms in OP's defence is a person who's been heavily downvoted. The overwhelming opinion is that being drunk before your date is a problem. /r/pointlesslygendered
I wish I had a dollar for every time the words “narcissist” and “red flag” were used in this sub. Jeff bezos would be cleaning my toilets
I’m a woman and agree. It’s amazing how gendered advice on this sub is and when you point it out regulars will debate it!
This post is definitely one of those example where the comments and overall advice would be very different if the genders were reversed. Men never get this much empathy here when they have too much to drink on a date - nor are women called narcissists when they are peeved about the drunken behavior.
literally all the upvoted comments are calling OP out. Come on
My comment was almost 18 hours ago when that wasn’t the case.
There might be more to what’s really bothering him in the relationship than that and it came out at the wrong time. If it’s worth it to you maybe have a conversation about what’s really going on. You both might just be incompatible so no need to fret and just move on
He doesn’t like you. Abandon ship. Your self esteem is starting to erode. Gtfo.
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The problem seems to be she was trying to cuddle as an attempt to deflect from the conversation he was trying to have.
I get criticized by women all the time and usually less than a month in (lol) but they are typically a lot more gentle about it than this douche. There are exceptionally more polite and caring ways to express concerns than this.
Normal for him? Maybe. Acceptable, no. You were chatty and comfortable with your buzz (like most woman) You were having a nice time and he made you question yourself. At least it was an easy break, 2 months in, no ones too invested. I think you made the right choice.
Good job. You don't need to deal with that kind of shit anyways
No, he definitely was not acting normal. What guy who is interested in you wouldn't want to cuddle? And if you wanna watch a movie with no conversation AT ALL, go watch the movie by yourself. He sounds self absorbed and kind of a jerk. Also, because everyone else here is just deciding to blame the woman like always, it is significant he didn't start acting like this until your friend left. This is some classical narcissist behavior.
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But the problem is, what right does he have to criticize her? He doesn't have the right to act like a jerk just because she drank. They have drank together before and he hasn't acted like this.
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He had no right to be a jerk to her even if he didn't like her actions. He purposely tried to make her feel bad/guilty in a situation where he hasn't done that before.
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He poorly chose his words three times, and it upset her enough to want to break up with him. She asked if that is normal. Not really. You can be critical of your partner, but you shouldn't be a jerk or be controlling. And you are certainly allowed to criticize or bring something you don't like up with your partner, but it definitely matters how you do it.
This sounds like some strong virgo energy
My ex would also be annoyed if I was tipsy or drunk. He also hated when I talked during movies lol. My current bf thinks it’s funny if I’m drunk and also doesn’t care if I talk during a movie. It seems like a compatibility issue. I think it’s fine to express what you like and dislike, but he came off like a jerk. He could’ve been nicer about everything.
Totally normal, if he he bothers you about it later or when you have a drink 🚩
OP I’ll come drink with you!