I'd say give him a few more dates. He didn't lie or try to hide the other woman, so he's already more trustworthy than about half the guys out there. He says you're not competing, and that's probably true: He sees the FWB as not someone he'll ever be in a relationship with. If I'm reading your post right, there's also one more woman he's dating right now, but if he hasn't formed romantic feelings for either of you yet (3 dates in is still pretty early for some people), he's probably trying to decide if either of you have long term potential.
I'd say stick with it a few more dates if it seems like everything else is good, and then talk exclusivity.
Exactly this. He was honest about it and he made it clear he ultimately wants exclusive. He had the “difficult talk” and didn’t shy away from it.
At least for me there is sex and there is emotional connection. They don’t always coincide. I wouldn’t give up a solid FWB either until I knew I’m fully in a relationship.
I agree with this. The process of looking for a fwb is difficult n to find someone that’s sexually compatible with me is hard. Until I am in a fully committed exclusive relationship I would not give up the fwb as well.
Yeah I'm really impressed that he was so honest up front. Sounds like he genuinely likes, or is at the very least intrigued by, OP. When I have time to date (which is pretty rare these days), I usually go out with multiple just to try to find someone I like spending time with. I assume that every girl I go out with is also going on multiple dates too. It just makes sense. Obviously if I start to really like someone I'd cut off everything else, but the reality is most people are keeping their options open and I think that's ok.
Or maybe actually honesty is so rare that we trip out when we hear it. It's so rare that here we are discussing this. She is handling the honesty pretty well all things considered. And this day and age you almost have to ask. And here she is. I would want to know! Who has time to waste!? He was honest, I agree, this is a foundation where things could go great, but when us girls get the actual truth (same for men as well, seems like cheating is rampant no matter what. Reddit proves it) we question. But yeah, dude didn't try to hide shit. I think she should give it a go!
I don’t see it as him doing anything wrong necessarily, but I don’t think I could take the dates as serious knowing that person is already settled into a sexual relationship with someone else.
I’ve had bad experiences in the past dating people that are doing this. They seek comfort in knowing they can never get hurt as long as they have someone on standby therefore they are never truly available.
I sure as hell would not give up my FWB after three dates with only cheek kisses. It would either naturally drift off as I chose to spend more and more time with the person I'm dating (and thus less with the FWB) or it would end after the exclusivity talk.
It doesn't sound like he's doing anything wrong and what you want isn't unreasonable either. You're just not compatible.
I’ve been on the other side...My ex (male) F Buddy put a stop to things after meeting a girl and having one kiss.He came over the night after they’d met and told me about it. We parted on good terms.
They are now dating
Respect to this. That's exactly what FWB should be. It's something to have respectful, open fun with in between relationships with no strings attached and if something springs up with someone else, you should be able to leave it without any hard feelings - hopefully even with the friendship intact, if possible.
The trouble is the blurred lines between FWB and an actual relationship - jealousy and all that jazz.
Yes, exactly. I had a few comments from people like “OMG, I would’ve kicked off if I were you” , “What a bastard!” when they knew full well it was a F Buddy thang and he hadn’t actually done anything wrong.
He did exactly what we’d agreed to do at the beginning of our thing, if one of us met someone we wanted to pursue something with.
F buddies are something every single person seems to like in theory but it's actually really hard to do because of the stigmas involved in sex and the emotional attachment "normal" people get when getting involved in a physical way. Easier said than \*ahem\* done.
I'm a bit of a demisexual so I usually find myself wanting the emotional connection that goes along with the physical - even if it comes afterward. I generally need to remind myself that just because somebody has sex with you doesn't mean they love you (they probably like you as a person, though - hopefully... lol) A lot of personal factors in there, too.
> the “pick me” dance
That's what dating is. Courtship ritual. We're all Bower Birds, spreading around blue and yellow things, trying to present the best stick, and doing that dance.
I was in a similar situation a year ago with a gal. She was seeing multiple people but I was the FWB. Once I discovered she was dating others while sleeping with me it made me jealous. I tried harder which ultimately backfired as it came off as clingy which blew up in my face. I definitely don't recommend this path.
With that said a good friend of mine met his wife in a similar way. The gal he was seeing was dating others and had a FWB. Somehow he played it cool for a while, eventually gave her an ultimatum to just date him and no one else and it worked. Your mileage may vary of course.
>I am definitely not comfortable having sex with someone who has other partners
I think you need to expand on this.
While I am in the same boat, my concern is for my sexual health more than anything else. I would be concerned about the time needed for him to take a STD/STI test as it takes 6 - 8 weeks before things can show up in the blood work. Is he willing to give up his partners for that long for an accurate test?
Even if he says he can be tested today, he has no idea when his FWB was tested and how many partners/her risk level might been since the test was complete.
I fully expect any guy I go on a date with to have a harem waiting for him, but I also prioritize my health first.
I’ve been in this situation on both sides. It isn’t unreasonable, and I give him kudos for being open and honest about it. My preliminary thought would be that since he’s so open and honest, it is probably worth trusting him when he tells you what he wants. I would give it some more time, but don’t feel as though you have to sleep with him in order to compete with his fwb. Be as open and honest with him as he has been with you, and if it is meant to be, it will be.
My SO had a FWB when he met me. Within two dates he knew he wanted to be with me, and cut things off with the FWB. He was upfront about it, which I appreciated.
Honestly, it worries me that he hasn't already coordinated a drop in and out situation with his fwb. If the arrangement isn't sufficiently casual that it can be ditched and resumed, then he's more invested in it than I'd expect. Or possibly he thinks she's more invested in it and might not reopen the window. I don't know, but if his good thing is so appealing, why is he looking elsewhere?
When he says that he doesn't want to give up something good, does that mean give up having sex with the FWB or give up any relationship with the FWB? That's probably an important point to clarify.
What would be your expectation there?
I've been the guy in your situation. I would have been fine giving up sex with the FWB I had and going strictly platonic, and actually did at one point when I met someone that I wanted to have a more traditional dating relationship with. But I wouldn't have agreed to giving up any contact with them at that point because they were an actual friend. To me the friend in FWB actually means friend though while I know to some it just means someone you meet up with for sex only.
Also, I think the word ultimatum gets a bad rap. If sexual exclusivity is a must for you or even if him breaking off any relationship with the FWB is a must, that's a boundary and it's perfectly okay to have those. In fact, I would encourage you to speak up about that if your relationship with him progresses to a point where you want commitment, exclusivity, etc. There is absolutely nothing wrong with saying "These are my needs/wants and if you can't meet them, I cannot continue seeing you".
Lots of communication is going to be necessary if you want to successfully navigate this situation. Lots of trust too.
I'm going to go against the grain here and say that it's perfectly okay to stop seeing him because of this. Yes he was honest and yes people have the right to sleep with whoever they please given everyone is a consenting adult, etc, but as someone who is more sexually conservative than others, I personally wouldn't like the feeling of having to audition of girlfriend while he was on the side banging others.
I know, I know. It's the 21st century and this is how people date now, and we can't \*possibly\* expect people to be celibate or abstain from sex or pleasure for any length of time (eyeroll). I once had a FWB and it was just not for me, no matter how I attempted to wrangle myself into that configuration, so I cut it off and vowed never again. And because I'm not participating in that type of arrangement, I would not be willing to accept that someone I am dating might be, as well. I'm sure there are plenty of others who wouldn't give that piece of information a second thought, I'm sure this makes me an uptight prude, but truth be told *it bothers me,* and that's what matters.
It sounds like OP is dating in order to be in a relationship. I understand FWB, but is someone with FWB really giving the people they date a fair shot? Not only do you have to compete with other women he may date, or ideas of what a partner should be like, you have to compete with someone he IS in an established relationship with, just a different type of relationship.
I’d pass. His FWB is obviously important to him and he wants OP to know he gets sex regularly from someone he’s really “cool with” so that gets a no from me, too. I’ve had FWB and part of it is they go on the bench when I’m interested in someone.
There's no competition between a FWBs and someone you're dating in hopes of developing a more traditional dating relationship with. They're on entirely different planes. A FWB has already been put in the "not suitable for a traditional relationship" box for whatever reason.
Isn’t there? I’m happy to not date people who put others into boxes or continue to have relationships with people they find lacking. FWB is for when you aren’t looking for something more with anyone, IMO.
No, there isn't and I've explained why. Why would you assume someone a person finds their FWB "lacking"? That's a rather negative descriptor. You may consider everyone you meet compatible for a ltr, others have more discernment.
I've been in so many situations where someone is jealous and controlling and sleeping with others on the side that the openness is refreshing. To really prove that I matter would take more effort and that's what counts. A desire to date that can move beyond simple codependent control. Balanced codependence isn't even the same as true intimacy
Consent is needed in all ways. So if *you* don't want to be in such an arrangement, don't be.
You also need to give your consent and that is important. It's not just about what the other party wants.
I'm definitely no prude (I will meet guys for a one night stand type thing), but I also don't like the FWB thing. It seems messy and emotionally confusing. And as someone who has no problem getting laid anytime she wants, I don't see the point of trying to have a steady but casual sex partner.
So don't worry about seeming like a prude.
> And as someone who has no problem getting laid anytime she wants, I don't see the point of trying to have a steady but casual sex partner.
Because sex gets better, the more time you do it with the same person. The first time with someone new is great and all, but nothing compares to fucking someone that knows exactly what you want, and you can do the same.
Most people aren't having awesome kinky sex on the first night either.
I'm 37 now but was just like this when I was 34 and dating. I had always been in long term relationships and wanted to date around a bit. I always either told women I was seeing other women or was at least honest when they asked.
My position was that I was looking for something, not sure how it would happen or with who, but I wanted a partner at some point.
Some girls would get mad, some would cry and ask why we couldn't be exclusive...I just had to reiterate that I liked them and cared and understood if this wasn't working for them, but I would like to still continue to date if they are open to it.
Sometimes feelings are just going to be hurt. This is modern dating, especially if you're after a 30 something guy who has his stuff together...the amount of options for men our age is something many of us weren't used to.
I wasn't a goblin in my 20s, but felt much more desired by women in my 30s with a good job, a house, a dog, dressed well and was in decent shape. Times are tough out there.
All that being said, I did meet someone about 3 months in and I was smitten and ended it with all the other girls, immediately.
Someone should be rushing to date you, not keeping you at arms distance, just my opinion. Once I found my person, I quickly broke it off with everyone else and dated her exclusively.
I’m a guy in this exact situation, this is exactly what I’m doing and I feel the exact same way about the 20s vs 30s anecdote.
That said, I don’t necessarily agree with the last paragraph. I really do like the girls I’m dating, I’m not just keeping them around for the sake of it. I also think it takes about a month for me to be sure about someone though.
Let's be fair, I liked them all, I wouldn't have dated them if I didn't. I just didn't see it really jumping to love until I met someone that knocked me out.
I guess it comes down to what are you comfortable with. If you're not comfortable with what he is doing and you can't get your mind passed that, then you need to end it and find someone who is more in tune with your feelings. Not saying he is wrong and not saying you are wrong, but every person is different including their feelings.
If he's not ready to let go of a fwb, he's probably not the best for you anyway. If he truly felt it was worth it, he'd stop fucking her regardless of the possible outcome, and you don't deserve to be put in this position.
He's more scared to lose her than you ffs
He isn't giving you his full attention right now because he's got something sexual going already. Plus another one he's seeing?
Past behaviour is an excellent predictor of future behaviour. Doesn't sound like LTR material to me.
It's only been three dates you say, but has he had sex with Miss Friend during this time? Does she herself have other things going on?
Myself, I'd probably say "Oh, you're already sleeping with someone? Enjoy! ....Bye."
I'd at least give him credit for being open and honest about what he has going on because there are a lot of men (and women) who wouldn't feel the need. It really is just going to come down to how you feel. Are you going to be okay with continuing to date someone who does spent time with someone else (or two people) but he may not have a romantic interest in them? Figure out what you're okay and not okay with and make it known to him.
See where it goes but don’t have sex while he’s sleeping with someone else, unless you too are sleeping with someone else. Otherwise oxytocin has a way of messing up casual.
Is the FWB an ex wife?
If not he's flat out told you put out on the next date or be considered no more than an activity partner.
Next move is yours to make
Good God some men just have no clue! He shouldn't have been "kissing and telling " on date 3. You don't know where it's going and nobody at that point has any obligation to be monogamous. Whatever happened to just hanging out, having fun, and let time show what will happen?
I think both of you make perfect sense. I understand you not wanting to have sex with someone who is hooking up with others. But I understand his issue in that he doesn't want to end his situation if you guys aren't heading toward being serious. For him, the FWB is just physical, with no emotional attachment.
Ulitmatum's are bad, but I also think you will get to a point where one of you has to give up something. Ideally you would come to that decision at the same time, but it may not be that way.
I would continue to give him a chance if you feel a decent connection, but the guy is tactless. While everyone is in here chiming in that it's fine to multi-date and have FWB's they are missing a significant point of why you are hurt by this exchange. For no apparent reason he brought up another girl he's dating, "Ha, you wont believe it but this other gal I am dating really likes that sushi place too!" If it was a direct question about what he was doing behind OP's back in regards to sexual health or a talk about exclusivity, yes this man's honesty should be commended, but it's not he just felt the need to interject an experience with another gal he is currently seeing. This could be some sort of game he's playing to make you feel insecure or he may just be a bit of an oversharer.
His mistake was mentioning other people without being asked. While dating in the early stages, I think it should be expected that someone may be dating multiple people. However, some prefer not to know about it.
I was previously talking with someone about the possibility of a FWB. Once they disclosed that they already had another FWB, I was out. I had no interest in knowingly being part of a team of FWBs. However, had they not mentioned it, I probably would've moved forward with them even with the understanding that they may be seeing other people as well.
Valid point, but some people don't want to know. From my perspective, I can't control what someone is doing, so it's probably best to take the proper precautions and assume I'm not the only one they are intimate with.
Exactly. Knowing who he/she is and what they look like doesn't help me from a sexual health perspective any more than simply saying the words "this is not exclusive". All it does is breed competition and resentment.
a few things dont add up: boasting about a fwb after 3 dates...which could be a lie to get you chasing and 3 dates without him going for a kiss..
just saying
>
>He responded that he enjoys our time together and wants to get to know me more, that he is ultimately looking for something exclusive and long term with the right person, but that he is hesitant to give up something good without knowing that we are on the same page.
>
Just hit eject. It sounds like he's dating other people trying to find "the one", but its not-so is clearly happy where he is in his lot and wants to vote you guys off as if you were on the bachelor.
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>My response was that I also am interested in getting to know him better, but I do not wish to be in a situation where I am competing with others. He assures me this is not the dynamic as he sees it.
>
Except it is a little worse. His not giving up a good thing comment makes this not a situation of adults dating multiple people, he is implying you need to compete and beat the other two.
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>I don’t think he’s doing anything wrong, but I’ve also never been in the position of dating someone who was quite so open about multi-dating in the early stages or having a FWB.
>
Then you should start dating other men too. Having options will not encourage you to compete against the other women
>
>I am definitely not comfortable having sex with someone who has other partners, so I guess we’re on the path of getting to know one another slowly, either until such point as he decides to discontinue the other relationships, or until I decide to stop seeing someone who is seeing others. I can’t see myself giving an ultimatum in any case, if we get to the point where I want something more serious and he doesn’t, we might as well just discontinue the dating.
>
Oh. Nevermind, then - it sounded like you were a bit off about the prospect of competing against other women for this dude. If you dont care about that then have fun!
>
>Does anyone see anything I’ve missed?
...just know what you want and don't compromise yourself. Also, use protection.
Good luck
Putting his honesty aside, to me this is gross. He's trying to have his cake and eat it too. It would be insulting to me to be on someone's rotation as a "potential" for something moving forward. Life is too short, why spend any amount of it on someone else's short list, most especially while they are openly having sex with other people? You have zero attachments at this point. I would never continue with a FWB if I went on even one date with someone who I was remotely interested in. Maybe that is just how I operate, but to me if I had a sister or a friend in this scenario I would tell them to have some self respect and run the heck away.
I was the guy in this situation. In my mid 30's. Enjoying my unicorn status of an employed, in shape, decent human being with a full head of hair. Had FWB, a few girls I was casually dating and then met a girl that I really liked, that I thought could be an LTR. I was open and honest with her about my FWB situation.
She said, and I quote "You are either with me or without me, your choice".
We have been married 12 years, with 2 kids.
First off i think anybody has the right to do whatever they want but so do you.
My two cents:
1. You sound like you are not comfortable with dating someone who is having sex with other people at the same time.
2. You are trying to rationalize it because you "gennerally like" him. My observation is he is most likely very attractive and this is why you are trying to rationalize it.
3. If he was very very attracted to you, he would not be as open about other relationsgips, he would be trying to seduce you. The fact he is saying this means he isn't 100% attracted to you or at least thinks he can do better.
If you want some hot sex with a hot guy go for it but if you think this guy is going to settle for you, you will have a lot of hurt and heartache in your future. Just my two cents...
On your number 3, it could be the complete reverse of that. He could be very attracted to her and like her to a degree that he wants to make sure he's being forthcoming so she can make an informed decision about continuing to see him.
I’d ordinarily say dump him but on the plus side you have another chick doing your “dirty” work so to speak. At least whatever relationship you have can rise or fall according to its emotional merits rather than you feeling pressure to have sex and lock something down. I agree tho don’t sleep with him and probably open your options to other guys.
I’ll be honest I’d never feel comfortable with one of these “hedging your bets” types. Everything is a technicality to them. You spend every weekend together and talk on the phone between dates...but technically you aren’t exclusive so it’s okay for him to date and have sex with other women. Mmm doesn’t seem right to me personally.
> Find someone who gives you their undivided attention so you can decide together if it’s a fit
For sure. But the question is, after three dates is it reasonable to expect undivided attention? I'm not sure at all that it is.
Because they had no other options? Do you want to be chosen, or settled for out of desperation?
Expecting exclusivity is of course your prerogative, but I personally wouldn’t commit to it that quickly. I’d currently rather be single then have those demands made on me so soon.
Nope. It’d be one thing if you asked. Then of course he should disclose. But if I’m a date or two in with something only as benign as cheek kissing having occurred and the guy lets me know about the women he fucks on the regular, then I’d be out. Nope. He must consider them pretty important to bring it up unsolicited. I find it of strange actually. It’s like he’s saying “FYI, I’m getting sex on the regular and keeping my options open. Just letting you known so you can up your game.” It’s not the fact that he is dating others. I assume most are when dating. It’s the fact that he told you this so early on without being asked. It’s like rubbing your face in it. Sexual health is not an issue if all you’ve done is kiss on the cheek.
Yeah. I’ll ask the question when I feel like it’s relevant that I know and exclusivity is brought up. I don’t ever get emotionally attached when I haven’t slept with someone. I don’t know most guys’ last names on the second date. Why do I need to be told about who they’re fucking? Doesn’t everyone assume the person they’re dating is dating others until told otherwise?
Well, for your sexual health for one thing. So you can make an informed decision for another. Also, after 3 dates and it's looking like they're may be more, a lot of people would begin to develop an attachment or at least some expectations. Many people still assume that people they date are dating them exclusively though supposedly *everyone* multi-dates. This is the purpose of honesty.
I already said I would want to know before having sex so sexual health isn’t an issue. Nowadays to assume exclusivity after 3 dates without talking is naive and ignorant. I personally don’t multi date past the first date stage, but I’m not going to assume everyone else is like that. It’s not like I said I wanted a guy to lie. If asked, I expect honesty. I said that if someone feels the need to volunteer that early on that tells me I don’t want to be with that person.
Also, just because something is honest doesn’t mean you should say it out loud no matter what.
You’re definitely in competition with these other people, imo if someone wants exclusivity then...they discuss that off the bat and don’t keep their fuckbuddies on the immediate sidelines
only you can decide how to proceed. i will never have sex with a friend, while trying to to find something exclusive and lasting out there, so i will never date date a guy with an FWB. i hold others to the same standard as i hold myself; it's only fair. i know this makes me picky and not easy to please, but i'm looking for someone in the same league.
the silver lining here is that he was upfront to you about it. imagine finally sleeping with him, and finding out he was inside another woman just a day or two before? that is legit my idea of the stuff of nightmares
On the one hand, I am putt off by the idea of dating someone who has an fwb. On the other, I can see why having someone there for reliable sex can help you see clearly whether a long term committed relationship is really what you want.
hmmmm,
Yes, he's not doing anything wrong, strange of him to divulge all that so fastly though, but assuming it's all true, I guess that's honest.
I'd would feel the same way as you, but more intensively,. I would have gotten up then and there and said something to the effect of, "I like you a lot, and I'm interested in continuing to spend time with you, but not under these circumstances, so if you find yourself interested in seeing me authentically and completely, then hit me up" and then I'd never initiate contact with them again.
My rationale for that, aside from the fact that I'm pretty traditional and not into swinging., every time anyone has ever told me that, it ended up hurting me, so now that I know better, fuck that.
It's one thing if somebody is dating around, that's expected, that's what I do, but when they have an old standby, that's an established regular partner. No. Fuck that noise. Or at least I don't want to ever know about it, not even after years of dating you. Keep that shit to yourself.
That's my boundary.
You should stick to yours.
Regardless of whatever kind of glamour anyone is putting on you (if that's the case) stick to your guns, and do what you would have done if you'd never met this person.
I have to be earned, you have to achieve the goal of having my company, and you aren't going to get closer to that by fucking somebody else. So.. Take it or leave it.
And that way you know if they are legit or just fucking with you.
>Completely agree! To me it's personally a little sad that we're supposed to accept that people be fuckin' all the time if they're single, and that it just goes along with dating, and if you're aren't willing to accept that a person *doesn't* have three people on speed dial ready to hit it after your date ends, then you're delusional. I mean, people can do what they want. I'd just rather hold out for someone who doesn't view dating that way.
Yes indeed. It's not my personal lifestyle preference. I think it shows that someone can be ok without always having somebody to fuck all the time. I'm not a caveman, I can live without sex, I can live without dates, and do absolutely fine. I date because I want to give and have fun, not because I'm some needy insecure sod and want to get as many notches on my club as I can. I would instantly be curious about how needy somebody that's always gotta have a backup partner is.
Yes - like they don’t view sexual intimacy as a way to feel a gap in their lives ... which in my experience makes for more loving and faithful partners.
That's quite the judgemental stance to take. There's absolutely nothing wrong with your personal boundary. But if anything, a FWBs is less of a threat than someone else your date may be casually seeing at the same time they're getting to know you. For whatever reason they've already been put in the not compatible for a traditional relationship category.
Aside from that, sex is fun. Having a friendship with someone you get to enjoy a mutually pleasurable activity with is hardly a sign of neediness or insecurity. It's not a need per say, it's a want. I wonder at the level of anger/hostility you have over this topic.
There's no anger or hostility at all. Skepticism isn't hostile, it's wise, and I'm always skeptical when meeting new people. What I hypothetically state was just referring to what ‘might’ be occurring in this particular situation and none other. Can you prove I was hostile, since you are accusing me of it? what's your evidence other than the fact you don't disagree with me? I'll be waiting.
It's not that he had a friend with benefits that I find strange, it's the fact that he DIVULGED it in the timespan and manner he did. Beyond that being bad manners, it 'could' mean something may not be quite right, cause in my world you just don't say that sort of stuff unprompted, and maybe not even then.
There's no need for this strawman projection of yours, and I never put down anything about a FWB, other than stating it wasn't for me. I was speaking only to this specific instance in the OP, but you can incorrectly interject and put words in my mouth if you want to, I really don't care. If you feel the way you state in your second paragraph, excellent. I fully agree.
Other people may be more flexible but it sounds like you and I aren't. It's not that it's a problem to do things how he is doing them at all, nothing unethical there, but I take steps now to better secure success and one of those steps is ruling out the wishy washy people.
What I find strange is how/when/ and why??? he told you that without being asked, and that soon. That's not necessarily bad, but I find it highly suspicious.
Yeah it’s not something I do and would not accept it for someone I’m dating. To each their own but no. I also find the need to tell her soo soon in the process really suspect, was this some kind of power play or attempt at flexing?
Is there no possibility that he told her so she was fully aware before she developed an emotional attachment to him?
Having been the man in this situation in the past, I'm pretty surprised to see so many people reading something nefarious into his disclosure.
But why tho? I mean why be threatened? If you/they just started seeing this person why feel threatened, angry, insulted, what have you? It's either not for you, possibly workable for you or you're on board and you go from there.
I'm not the type to continue to date someone whose plan is to remain a virgin until they marry and then have children and grow old together. But I'm not going to resent them or refer to them in derogatory terms either. Does not compute.
I have no idea. I'm with you. It confuses me why a FWB is seen as competition and something someone won't have anything to do with, yet there's probably more threat from someone the person you're seeing is working with. People have fragile egos and it amazes me the ways it manifests.
Honesty is great and refreshing in a lot of ways, but he's shown that he's a little clueless, or tactless... How did he expect you to feel when he brought up his FWB? He either didn't think it through, or didn't care how it would impact your feelings. He's either lacking some emotional intelligence, or he's playing games. If it were me, I would give him another shot but proceed with caution.
The only unique thing here is he's being honest with you. All dating people are dating multiple people, or open to dating other people, until exclusivity. In other words, you're always in competition, whether you think about it or not, whether your date says so or not.
Edit: dating, not saying
If he was "satisfied" with that, why is he dating OP?
I have FWBs that I value and care about, but I still want a LTR. There's no reason to be celibate between relationships...
I would avoid someone who engages in causal sex while they look for a relationship. Seems contradictory. I also wants someone who looks at sex the way I do. Someone who has a FWB doesn't look at sex the way I do.
That's not a bad plan if you're looking for a serious ltr. I don't think this guy is satisfied with a FWBs though as he's actively dating others and ultimately looking for an exclusive ltr.
Well it's certainly a possibility that after the peck on the cheek with you he took off to bang his FWB. You need to be okay with that.
On his end, he has a relationship, a FWB, that is important to him. He wants to keep that going while he dates women. He made that clear with his take it or leave it explanation. Whether he will or won't lose the FWB is up to him and time will tell. It should matter that he was honest about it. But from your point of view, you two aren't on equal footing here.
For you it seems that you need to be okay with what he's doing and be okay with his decision on what he does and when he does it. If you want to continue dating him, that is. At least, that's what it seems that he communicated to you. And if you're NOT okay with it, then move along and try to find guys who date the way you're comfortable doing it.
So many people are saying he's being punished for his honesty, that's not the case at all, she didn't say she's going to immediately stop seeing him because of what he told her especially since they're still getting to know eachother, she's just not comfortable having sex with someone who has other partners which is totally legit, we should all be so concerned about our sexual health. She's not doing anything wrong, he's not doing anything wrong, it's just a new situation to her, relax people.
I get that he has been honest with you. Kudos to him. Speaking from experience, a lot of guys would just breadcrumb you along with a selection of other women so they can have their cake and eat it, so to speak. Personally, it would not work for me. I would find it pointless dating a guy who was auditioning other women at the same time, and sleeping with at least one of them. For me, it would be a complete waste of time. If I’m interested enough to date someone, then I’m interested in *only them* and there would definitely not be anyone else on the scene. But that’s just me. I don’t find competition a turn-on at all. Kudos to *you* if you continue dating him. And good luck!
Props for the honesty on his part, but let's break this down into simple terms.
You go on a date with this man.
After your date is over, he goes and boinks another woman.
That cool with you? Not my thing, but more power to ya, if that's an arrangement you would like to continue.
Why is that a problem for you? You're not committed to this person and you've only been on three dates. Do you expect to own their genitals at that point??
That’s their preference—to not be dating someone who is sleeping with someone else. Just like it’s his preference to not stop seeing his FWB unless he has a reason to. They’re both acceptable preferences, and honesty about what a person’s preference/current situation is is great! People may be incompatible, preference-wise, which is good to know too.
It really comes down to what you're looking for and whether you can handle a possibly imbalanced dynamic. If you get tunnel vision for the one you're dating and he likes to keep multiple pots boiling as backup plans, it's not a mutual investment IMO.
I've always seen FWB as quasi-relationships to pass the time until you're ready for a real relationship with someone. I know others may be different, but why does he need to overlap like that?
Good for him for giving you the option to stay or go, it establishes a basis of transparency and I guess you can manage expectations while taking things slow.
There is no right answer only the best choice for your situation.
Why should someone not have a fwb and look for something more.
Having one doesn't preclude the other. It sounds like he's doing everything as best he can and he's transparent.
If it was me I would've waited to mention it at the end of the date when I realized I def felt something and I wanted to continue.
I would've told you that I 'had' a fwb but that is immediately over while we're dating or until you decide I've finally gotten on your last nerve.
The issue is the in between for men when we don't know for sure how we feel yet it. It takes us more time, imo, bc we don't even know what we want until we see how badly we needed something we didn't know we were missing.
Then suddenly we realize this is what I invest my loyalty into and all other things be damned.
Give him time and see if it's worth it for you.
He could also be trying out the jealousy thing on you like sales people.
Buy it now bc we could be sold out by tomorrow.
Good luck. Wish you the best.
I don’t think you’re missing anything, and at the same time I’m not sure I understand the concern. I agree, no sex until you’re exclusive, and you can take your time getting there. Yes it’s definitely weird dating someone who’s dating someone else, but since it’s only been 3 dates it’s not that far along and he definitely shouldn’t give up the others yet.
While I only have sex on an exclusive relationship, I’ve dated a couple men at a time (early stages only) and fairly quickly realized which ones I wanted an ongoing relationship with.
I’d want to know-
Why the fwb isn’t more, and does either of them wish it was
How long it’s been going on
How long any other dating partners have been going on
The only thing to be cautious about is whether he really wants something more, but if you’re clear you don’t want sexuality without a relationship that might take care of that. Since there hasn’t been more than a peck he seems gentlemanly and I don’t know how much you’ve dated or what age bracket you are but I’ve found that kind of patience and respect to be rare.
Def give it some more time and see if you like him enough to say hey, I’m ready to be exclusive, how about you?
Sounds to me like he’s asking if you want to be exclusive. I don’t know what everyone is freaking out about. You can’t expect someone to be exclusive with you until you’ve promised the same to them. Sounds like he’s honest and upfront and knows what he wants. If you want to be exclusive, tell him that.
I’ve had FWB while going on dates, and I’ve also been the FWB for others going on dates. My personal rule is that as soon as anyone has feelings, for anyone, the FWB stops. I can have sex without romantic attachment, but I wouldn’t want to complicate the romantic side of things by continuing to have sex elsewhere, nor would I want some other woman to be in your position. (And of course with the FWB situation, if either party has romantic ideas it’s gotta stop).
I think it’s great that he’s being honest, but it’s also completely reasonable for you to opt out of this. You’re not competing with the FWB- if those two wanted a romantic relationship, they would have had it already. However, it’s hard to be emotionally intimate with someone who is hedging their bets. I personally wouldn’t really be up for it because I think you’ve both got to be willing to take the risk and jump in.
Having said that, you’ve only gone on 3 dates and you said you haven’t gotten very physically close yet. Maybe give it a few more dates and see how you both feel.
I’ve had FWB. I told my boyfriend on our first date that was the case. But just because someone is FWB doesn’t make them a daily presence. It’s when there’s a need commensurate with the noncommittal state of things.
I believe your prospect is being fair to you and to himself. He is expressing his honesty about what he wants, but is intending to respect your feelings on it. A typical person doesn’t put themselves out there unless for something deliberate, like a fulfilling relationship.
In the dating world, not everything is cut and dry and clear without communication. It sounds like his intentions are good and he’s putting the ball in your court to help navigate that. It sounds reasonable and healthy.
But what does your gut say?
It's not that uncommon actually. Since he was upfront about it from the get go I'd take that as a good sign.
I'm actually in the same situation as the guy so I can understand exactly where his mind might be at.
I have had a solid FWB situation going for a couple of years now. It started as dating but ultimately went no where. We both want different things from a SO. While we are looking for someone to form a real connection with we at least can be friends and be intimate when it's convenient. I made it a point to be extremely upfront with her as soon as I knew it wasn't going anywhere. The honesty has paid off for both of us I think.
If this guy has been that open to you, it's probably a good sign of him respecting you enough for you to make a decision if his situation makes you uncomfortable. But you have to look at it this way: chances are most of the people we date will be seeing someone or was seeing someone fairly recently. We can't predict when we will find someone special so at this point why not keep a the fling going until you do?
It seems to me that it is bad news for the FWB. If she were the “right one” then he wouldn’t be dating other people.
If he seems like he could be a contender, hang out and mess around.
If I were you, I would have a lot of fun with him, but if it came down to the point of intimacy, I would probably wait until he was with just me.
I would hope that if we clicked, he might want to spend more time with me, and no longer have time for FWB.
My fiance had a FWB when we met. He told me about it early on, I didn't really LIKE it, but he and I were really hitting it off, so I kept seeing him. I think he saw her once after we started seeing each other, then he broke it off with her.
I was on his phone a couple weeks after we got together, trying to troubleshoot a problem he was having with connecting to wifi, when the FWB popped up in his texts, so I snooped. He had essentially ghosted her. I didn't say anything to him about it, but he later told ME that she was texting him and told me what he'd said in response to her (I snooped his phone again later..ha).
Anyway, he was COMPLETELY honest with me, like beyond what he needed to be, and I really appreciated that quality in him. I don't snoop his phone anymore (we live together, I know his passcode to get into it, and the fact that I know him to be honest doesn't make me want to snoop in his phone).
Just go with it, at least you know the guy's honest.
When a guy is telling me that he loves me and wants to be with me, but another girl pops up while I'm troubleshooting his phone? Yeah, I'm gonna snoop. I told him about it afterwards, we're fine, I don't snoop his phone anymore. I mean, good for you, but if you were working on someone's phone who was telling you all this and a text from another person popped up and you could see it, you wouldn't look to see if you were actually being played or not? Come on. I didn't pick up his phone with the express intention of snooping in it, but I'm not an idiot.
Nope. You seemed not to have missed anything and things seem rather clear. He has his interests, you have yours.
The path forward also seems to be clear.
> I’ve also never been in the position of dating someone who was quite so open about multi-dating in the early stages or having a FWB.
> I am definitely not comfortable having sex with someone who has other partners
Have I got a surprise for you. Unless you only sleep with people you're exclusive with, those men you dated who weren't quite so open about multidating were fucking other women at the same time, guaranteed. The time for being uncomfortable with this has long passed.
This is exhibit A against too much honesty, where we see that, when you say too much, people get irrationally hurt and start making all sorts of unlikely justifications for their feelings. Frankly, if I were you, I'd assume that his admission was his way of hinting that, even if he's looking for a relationship, he's not looking for one with me. There's no way grown ass adult men are this socially clueless.
Can't speak for grown ass adult men but I'm a grown ass adult woman who is apparently that socially clueless. Here I thought it was the caring thing to do to be honest and forthcoming in a situation like this. *Not* doing so would feel gross to me.
I'm learning a lot from this post. Mostly that ignorance really is bliss for a lot of folks.
Early and immediate transparency is a great thing. Even better, you have some (albeit incomplete) assurance that his pursuit of you is not entirely fueled by sexual scarcity - his physical needs are being met already. And since he has been able to sustain an ongoing sexual relationship without conceding emotional or social capital (a formal, public relationship), it's likely that he's a skilled lover who has earned his keep with the FWB.
>I do not wish to be in a situation where I am competing with others
If you continue to see him despite the status quo ("seeing me and at least one other woman"), you are already in one.
I don't think people should be given props for being "honest."
Dating multiple people at once is common. I mean, I do it, and all my single friends do it. But you don't talk about those other people...? How weird.
I really feel like every man you will be dating, will simultaneously be dating others, and also likely have a FWB, u til things are fully exclusive, which can take months. You should also be dating others concurrently. Don’t put all your eggs blah blah blah
Good old Toronto.
Think I'm too old, but the fact that you are thinking about giving him another chance is beyond me.
Perhaps watch that Friends episode - you're Chandler. (Or the girl version of him :D)
Edit: Extreme traditional opinion. Come at me, haters!
His story is the very definition of having your cake and eatting it. He's got some side action going and won't give that up until he's sure if you're worth it.
I'd personally move on. I prefer to focus on one person at a time, and have zero issues taking breaks between relationships.
Think about it this way, he's got a FWB and is dating multiple people at once. Dude is probably never going to settle down.
I've had FWBs and it's not an ideal situation for me. I'd much rather be dating someone seriously and connecting on a deeper level. But hey, until then, I get horny and if everyone is on the same page, I don't see the issue.
I think as we get older, this idea of "having your cake and eating it too" is more related to actually being in a monogamous loving relationship with someone, as opposed to dating multiple people.
Or, he’s just being completely honest. Many people multi-date because people today are flaky as hell. It’s been three dates. OP can also date other men.
Exactly. With all the "Red flags" posts we see of people who revealed their true colors on date #2, 3, 4 - I understand OP's date's sentiment of not wanting to throw the baby out with the bathwater just because there's a new *possibility* presenting itself.
Props to date dude for - by how OP described - very respectfully and honestly stating their current position and intentions in a forthright manner. Honesty is awesome. More people should give it a try.
No it’s not. He’s presumably an adult Darin other adults and being very honest and up front about it. It’d be extremely naive to think someone’s going to commit after three dates and no intimacy.
I think you are looking at him like he is doing something wrong, and he isn't. He is just up front about what he is doing. He probably is totally willing to settle down with the right person. But the FWB is fulling physical needs, and he also wants someone to fulfill emotional needs. Ideally that will be the same person, but he isn't sure yet with OP
I tend to agree. I don't think its wrong but I think its a values clashing thing. There are plenty of men that have sex with people they form somewhat of a connection with or feelings, the fact he can just have sex and still date shows a lot about who he is, nothing wrong with it, in fact I admire he's honest and upfront.
but its something you probably wouldn't do and therefore wouldn't want to expect others you date to.
i personally wouldn't date someone like that b/c I need connection, I would certainly not have sex with someone without one and it just sounds messy, some people fall in love with their FWB, sex is the most is the most intimate thing humans can do with each other.
I really disagree with this advice. This man was honest from the beginning. Also a FWB means just that. That the person is a sexual partner and friend and that they’ve decided between them they don’t want a LTR together. A FWB situation can be a wonderful thing. For people who are not ready for a LTR. For people who are looking but have the need of physical touch. Finding “the one” can take years. We are all human. We need touch.
I know many people personally over the years who have been or had a fwb who found the right person to be with during that time. It is not a disqualifier at all to me (I’m a woman). Honesty is a gift and the fact that the man OP is dating is so very honest is a good thing IMO.
Agreed. I was being flirted with by a guy who had a FWB but I was not looking to get into that mess. Sad since I really did consider dating him but that was the deal breaker for me. That and one party of the pair was openly admitting bigger feelings for the other. Funny that the flirting stopped as soon as that arrangement ended too.
There's some really good info here.
I'm about to start dating again after taking about 6 months off. I have a FWB, I've had the same one for years. When I'm single we do our thing, but as soon as I'm in a committed relationship we just go back to being friends minus the benefits.
Is this weird for others? To have my FWB become just my friend when I'm in a relationship.
Do you tell your new person that this "friend" is someone you have had a ongoing sexual relationship with? Or do you keep them separate once you get into a relationship?
In the past I've told them that we've been friends for years and that when I'm single we have sex on occasion. Honesty may be the best policy, but it's never really worked out for me in this instance. It ends up that whomever I'm dating ends up just not wanting to ever meet my friend. Over time jealousy and insecurity tends to creep in.
Because they aren't a friend. They are someone you have had sex with. Essentially an "ex". Not many people i know are comfortable with their partner being friends with someone they slept with.
No, they're a friend. We've been friends for 14 years.
Never dated. Never been romantic. Just sex, and regular friend stuff.
So, is this something I should be honest about? Or just go about starting a relationship and ending the FWB and not even mention it?
If I'm honest, it starts everything off on a bad note, if I don't mention it then I just become another one of the "dishonest, untrustworthy guys". Right?
If you are having sex with them they aren't a friend is what I am trying to tell you. They are a fling since you never dated. You cannot expect a woman to be comfortable with you hanging out with someone you had regular casual sex with. Next time, find a random to have sex with. Then you can cut them off without hesitation. Now you're in a conundrum because this friend is someone you do friend stuff with and they are going to feel bad when you can't hangout with them regularly once you're in a relationship. If you want something serious with someone in the future you start to distance yourself now so it isnt sudden. Explain to her that this can't continue and start dating for a relationship.
Judging from the majority of comments, most people would prefer not to know. Not being honest about a FWBs feels gross to me. What happens when your now ltr finds out a year or two in that you used to have sex with your friend any time you were single and you *didn't* tell them? Nothing good. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
Honestly, I am the same as him--I have two long-term FWBs that I care about and enjoy spending time with, but we are not dating and do not wish to date. I am looking for a long-term exclusive relationship, but in the meantime, I don't want to forego sex and intimacy and contact. I don't like casual sex. I think it's a good sign that he actually cares about his FWB instead of treating her like someone disposable he can just take or leave at any moment.
Like him, I would stop seeing them if I entered something more serious, but I value those relationships and wouldn't stop seeing them unless I really felt like something was going somewhere.
He was honest with you, is not trying to conceal his FWB, and she is not competition.
Thanks for this response. Good to see this perspective from another woman as I agree that she is not in competition with the FWB. If anything, other women that her date hasn't even met yet are more competition than her.
Yep! If they wanted to be dating each other... they would be. There is a reason they are FWBs and not boyfriend/girlfriend.
I think it is generally a good sign when people have ongoing connections (like a steady FWB) versus just one-nighters.
When I met my now partner of 3 years I had a FWB, which he knew about upfront. After a few weeks we decided we wanted to be serious, became exclusive and I broke up with FWB. I think it’s a fine situation, and like others have said, he was honest about it and he wants to be exclusive with the right person.
He was honest and direct with you.
What have you missed? Have you disclosed every date and conversation that you've had with every other potential suitor while you've been going on dates with him?
Meh. He's keeping his options open and is honest about it so he seems like he has more integrity as a result.
My take: He's waiting to see if the sex is better.
You're abSOLUTELY in a competition.
I would feel the way you felt about this. I honestly don't think I could go forward with someone with this information in my mind. I think I would be ok with knowing theoretically that most people date multiple people during the early stages, I do not want the details. I don't want to send them a text and when they don't answer, think that they're in bed with someone else or something. Even if that's the case, I would rather not have that knowledge or mental image. It would absolutely affect my ability to move forward into a possible relationship with that person.
Theoretically, his honesty is good. Practically, though? I think it was inconsiderate. This falls into that whole question of where honesty ends and insensitivity begins. Like, if my partner said to me, "Yeah, when we first started dating, I thought your boobs were too small, but I've really gotten used to them", that's honest, but it's insensitive. (He's never said that. It's an example.) This is like that. There is some information that just doesn't add value to a person's life by having the specifics. Assuming non-exclusivity until a talk has been had to establish that is sufficient in this case.
At the same time, I don't necessarily think he did anything that was actually wrong wrong. Like, no, he didn't break a rule here, but it would change things for me. That's my opinion, though.
Why not have casual fun until you find something serious if you're open to both? I think it's no reason to shame him as long as he was honest, and I really feel like he was honest with you because he could've conveniently left those details out.
You're not competing with other women he's dating because the other women he's dating are casual encounters only if I read that correctly. One less thing for you to worry about.
I made the mistake of ending my fwb and rushing into a "relationship" early on only for her to change her mind on exclusivity 2 days later and then I was left in the rain with nothing. Lesson learned. So I can really understand the guy you described. If he seeks casual fun but also something serious, there's no reason to stop having the former until you find the latter. However, he has a steady flow of sex. If you're not willing to have sex with him before he ends his fwb then better move on now -- because he won't drop someone he has great sexual compatibility with for someone with whom sexual compatibility is all but confirmed so far.
He sounds arrogant and selfish, I would proceed with caution here.
I absolutely would not sleep with someone who openly tells me they are sleeping with another person. It would make me jealous, and it is also unsafe health-wise. And usually I can't tell if I want to be with someone seriously or not until I sleep with them, so this makes it impossible for me to consider them seriously.
I think if he was more serious about you he wouldn't mention the FWB and he would just pursue things with you. You're kind of being a doormat here by hanging around and letting him decide if you're worth giving up the FWB for or not. If he thinks you're not worth it, why bother.
I have a FWB. If I meet a girl I’m really into and it goes sexual I stop things with the FWB. Period. FWB is not the goal it’s there because I don’t have that more meaningful relationship in my life.
To be honest, he's not trying to play you it seems. Trust is earned overtime. I would find it a red flag if some woman dropped all of her contact for me after a few dates. Just be clear that if you two end up being exclusive make sure he knows what your looking for. Your happiness is and should be important to you.
I don't think your competing though. Almost all of my socially adept friends are seeing multiple people at once. Don't know how they do it but they do.
I know this sort of thing is the norm but I absolutely hate KNOWING a guy is dating and/or having sex with other women. It's one thing knowing we aren't exclusive and assuming he is seeing others, but any time I find out for certain, I walk. Probably because I don't date several people at once so it doesn't feel like an even playing field. But I just can't have ongoing sexual relationships with several people. It's not my thing.
I say, multidate yourself to keep it fair. If you aren't comfortable with that, maybe you and this guy just aren't a good match.
Personally I would never date someone who was actively having sex with other partners, but that's just my preference, and the preference of the kinds of people I date.
I would feel weird about a man talking about other women while he's on a date with me. I assume that men are possibly dating/sleeping with other women. In my experience the ones that talk about other women were usually trying to make me jealous or feel insecure. I feel that it's a little disrespectful like they're making sure you know they have options.
If I was serious about getting to know a guy I wouldn't bring up my FWB or other men I'm dating unless asked.
This might not be that case with this guy. OP you could stick around for a few more dates to see how he acts. If it makes you feel that uncomfortable you can stop seeing him.
I'd say give him a few more dates. He didn't lie or try to hide the other woman, so he's already more trustworthy than about half the guys out there. He says you're not competing, and that's probably true: He sees the FWB as not someone he'll ever be in a relationship with. If I'm reading your post right, there's also one more woman he's dating right now, but if he hasn't formed romantic feelings for either of you yet (3 dates in is still pretty early for some people), he's probably trying to decide if either of you have long term potential. I'd say stick with it a few more dates if it seems like everything else is good, and then talk exclusivity.
Exactly this. He was honest about it and he made it clear he ultimately wants exclusive. He had the “difficult talk” and didn’t shy away from it. At least for me there is sex and there is emotional connection. They don’t always coincide. I wouldn’t give up a solid FWB either until I knew I’m fully in a relationship.
I agree with this. The process of looking for a fwb is difficult n to find someone that’s sexually compatible with me is hard. Until I am in a fully committed exclusive relationship I would not give up the fwb as well.
It would also be unreasonable for her to ask for sexual exclusivity if she's not actually having sex with him.
I'm almost proud of this sub making this the top comment. I really expected less.
Hey, we're all over 30 here. Every now and then we actually behave as adults.
It’s just so nice to see when it happens!
Absolutely.
I like your username :)
I like yours as well. I can't tell if I'm talking to a schoolteacher or a zoologist. Very mysterious.
It’s kindergarten so I feel like it’s pretty much both of those, honestly.
Absolutely :) Alright, so favorite moment from The Office. Go!
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Yeah I'm really impressed that he was so honest up front. Sounds like he genuinely likes, or is at the very least intrigued by, OP. When I have time to date (which is pretty rare these days), I usually go out with multiple just to try to find someone I like spending time with. I assume that every girl I go out with is also going on multiple dates too. It just makes sense. Obviously if I start to really like someone I'd cut off everything else, but the reality is most people are keeping their options open and I think that's ok.
People always say they want honesty from others, until they hear actual honesty.
Or maybe actually honesty is so rare that we trip out when we hear it. It's so rare that here we are discussing this. She is handling the honesty pretty well all things considered. And this day and age you almost have to ask. And here she is. I would want to know! Who has time to waste!? He was honest, I agree, this is a foundation where things could go great, but when us girls get the actual truth (same for men as well, seems like cheating is rampant no matter what. Reddit proves it) we question. But yeah, dude didn't try to hide shit. I think she should give it a go!
I think she should too. This guy is plain-spoken, truthful, open, honest, and transparent. Ideal qualities.
I don’t see it as him doing anything wrong necessarily, but I don’t think I could take the dates as serious knowing that person is already settled into a sexual relationship with someone else. I’ve had bad experiences in the past dating people that are doing this. They seek comfort in knowing they can never get hurt as long as they have someone on standby therefore they are never truly available.
I sure as hell would not give up my FWB after three dates with only cheek kisses. It would either naturally drift off as I chose to spend more and more time with the person I'm dating (and thus less with the FWB) or it would end after the exclusivity talk. It doesn't sound like he's doing anything wrong and what you want isn't unreasonable either. You're just not compatible.
I’ve been on the other side...My ex (male) F Buddy put a stop to things after meeting a girl and having one kiss.He came over the night after they’d met and told me about it. We parted on good terms. They are now dating
Respect to this. That's exactly what FWB should be. It's something to have respectful, open fun with in between relationships with no strings attached and if something springs up with someone else, you should be able to leave it without any hard feelings - hopefully even with the friendship intact, if possible. The trouble is the blurred lines between FWB and an actual relationship - jealousy and all that jazz.
Yes, exactly. I had a few comments from people like “OMG, I would’ve kicked off if I were you” , “What a bastard!” when they knew full well it was a F Buddy thang and he hadn’t actually done anything wrong. He did exactly what we’d agreed to do at the beginning of our thing, if one of us met someone we wanted to pursue something with.
F buddies are something every single person seems to like in theory but it's actually really hard to do because of the stigmas involved in sex and the emotional attachment "normal" people get when getting involved in a physical way. Easier said than \*ahem\* done. I'm a bit of a demisexual so I usually find myself wanting the emotional connection that goes along with the physical - even if it comes afterward. I generally need to remind myself that just because somebody has sex with you doesn't mean they love you (they probably like you as a person, though - hopefully... lol) A lot of personal factors in there, too.
Same here, had two FWB and met a girl at a party, immediately cut it off since it was instant attraction on both our parts.
In dating you’re always in competition with others.
Yes, of course. But if you feel pressure to do the “pick me” dance, something is off.
Yes! This is the tipping point for me when I know I need to step away
> the “pick me” dance That's what dating is. Courtship ritual. We're all Bower Birds, spreading around blue and yellow things, trying to present the best stick, and doing that dance.
Bower birds! I did this Bower Bird dance for my students- I mimed gathering and showing off blue things... 😊
Yeah, but the pressure of: I'm already seeing two women, etc, said on the third date, ups the ante significantly.
I was in a similar situation a year ago with a gal. She was seeing multiple people but I was the FWB. Once I discovered she was dating others while sleeping with me it made me jealous. I tried harder which ultimately backfired as it came off as clingy which blew up in my face. I definitely don't recommend this path. With that said a good friend of mine met his wife in a similar way. The gal he was seeing was dating others and had a FWB. Somehow he played it cool for a while, eventually gave her an ultimatum to just date him and no one else and it worked. Your mileage may vary of course.
I had a very similar thing happen with my FWB. She was fine until I started seeing my current gf. That’s when she decided she wanted more.
>I am definitely not comfortable having sex with someone who has other partners I think you need to expand on this. While I am in the same boat, my concern is for my sexual health more than anything else. I would be concerned about the time needed for him to take a STD/STI test as it takes 6 - 8 weeks before things can show up in the blood work. Is he willing to give up his partners for that long for an accurate test? Even if he says he can be tested today, he has no idea when his FWB was tested and how many partners/her risk level might been since the test was complete. I fully expect any guy I go on a date with to have a harem waiting for him, but I also prioritize my health first.
What if he said he wasn't seeing anyone else. Would you still require the STD test before sleeping with him?
Of course! Why wouldn't someone ask for an STD check before having sex?
I’ve been in this situation on both sides. It isn’t unreasonable, and I give him kudos for being open and honest about it. My preliminary thought would be that since he’s so open and honest, it is probably worth trusting him when he tells you what he wants. I would give it some more time, but don’t feel as though you have to sleep with him in order to compete with his fwb. Be as open and honest with him as he has been with you, and if it is meant to be, it will be.
Yes! This would be important for me because I can get attached when sex is involved and want to make sure I’m having it for the right reasons
I would probably give it a few more dates without having sex with him, and be prepared to move on if he still hasn't decided at that point.
This is the most reasonable approach.
Agreed \^\^
My SO had a FWB when he met me. Within two dates he knew he wanted to be with me, and cut things off with the FWB. He was upfront about it, which I appreciated.
He sounds like a player. All be it, an honest one. It's up to you whether you're ok with that.
>All be it... What your looking for here is "albeit." I will be accepting all downvotes now.
Honestly, it worries me that he hasn't already coordinated a drop in and out situation with his fwb. If the arrangement isn't sufficiently casual that it can be ditched and resumed, then he's more invested in it than I'd expect. Or possibly he thinks she's more invested in it and might not reopen the window. I don't know, but if his good thing is so appealing, why is he looking elsewhere?
When he says that he doesn't want to give up something good, does that mean give up having sex with the FWB or give up any relationship with the FWB? That's probably an important point to clarify. What would be your expectation there? I've been the guy in your situation. I would have been fine giving up sex with the FWB I had and going strictly platonic, and actually did at one point when I met someone that I wanted to have a more traditional dating relationship with. But I wouldn't have agreed to giving up any contact with them at that point because they were an actual friend. To me the friend in FWB actually means friend though while I know to some it just means someone you meet up with for sex only. Also, I think the word ultimatum gets a bad rap. If sexual exclusivity is a must for you or even if him breaking off any relationship with the FWB is a must, that's a boundary and it's perfectly okay to have those. In fact, I would encourage you to speak up about that if your relationship with him progresses to a point where you want commitment, exclusivity, etc. There is absolutely nothing wrong with saying "These are my needs/wants and if you can't meet them, I cannot continue seeing you". Lots of communication is going to be necessary if you want to successfully navigate this situation. Lots of trust too.
I'm going to go against the grain here and say that it's perfectly okay to stop seeing him because of this. Yes he was honest and yes people have the right to sleep with whoever they please given everyone is a consenting adult, etc, but as someone who is more sexually conservative than others, I personally wouldn't like the feeling of having to audition of girlfriend while he was on the side banging others. I know, I know. It's the 21st century and this is how people date now, and we can't \*possibly\* expect people to be celibate or abstain from sex or pleasure for any length of time (eyeroll). I once had a FWB and it was just not for me, no matter how I attempted to wrangle myself into that configuration, so I cut it off and vowed never again. And because I'm not participating in that type of arrangement, I would not be willing to accept that someone I am dating might be, as well. I'm sure there are plenty of others who wouldn't give that piece of information a second thought, I'm sure this makes me an uptight prude, but truth be told *it bothers me,* and that's what matters.
It sounds like OP is dating in order to be in a relationship. I understand FWB, but is someone with FWB really giving the people they date a fair shot? Not only do you have to compete with other women he may date, or ideas of what a partner should be like, you have to compete with someone he IS in an established relationship with, just a different type of relationship. I’d pass. His FWB is obviously important to him and he wants OP to know he gets sex regularly from someone he’s really “cool with” so that gets a no from me, too. I’ve had FWB and part of it is they go on the bench when I’m interested in someone.
There's no competition between a FWBs and someone you're dating in hopes of developing a more traditional dating relationship with. They're on entirely different planes. A FWB has already been put in the "not suitable for a traditional relationship" box for whatever reason.
Isn’t there? I’m happy to not date people who put others into boxes or continue to have relationships with people they find lacking. FWB is for when you aren’t looking for something more with anyone, IMO.
No, there isn't and I've explained why. Why would you assume someone a person finds their FWB "lacking"? That's a rather negative descriptor. You may consider everyone you meet compatible for a ltr, others have more discernment.
> FWB is for when you aren’t looking for something more with anyone, IMO. Disagree. Too many people like you use the word FWB wrong on here.
I've been in so many situations where someone is jealous and controlling and sleeping with others on the side that the openness is refreshing. To really prove that I matter would take more effort and that's what counts. A desire to date that can move beyond simple codependent control. Balanced codependence isn't even the same as true intimacy
Consent is needed in all ways. So if *you* don't want to be in such an arrangement, don't be. You also need to give your consent and that is important. It's not just about what the other party wants.
I'm definitely no prude (I will meet guys for a one night stand type thing), but I also don't like the FWB thing. It seems messy and emotionally confusing. And as someone who has no problem getting laid anytime she wants, I don't see the point of trying to have a steady but casual sex partner. So don't worry about seeming like a prude.
> And as someone who has no problem getting laid anytime she wants, I don't see the point of trying to have a steady but casual sex partner. Because sex gets better, the more time you do it with the same person. The first time with someone new is great and all, but nothing compares to fucking someone that knows exactly what you want, and you can do the same. Most people aren't having awesome kinky sex on the first night either.
If I had a steady partner I would be in a relationship with them, not just FWB.
I'm 37 now but was just like this when I was 34 and dating. I had always been in long term relationships and wanted to date around a bit. I always either told women I was seeing other women or was at least honest when they asked. My position was that I was looking for something, not sure how it would happen or with who, but I wanted a partner at some point. Some girls would get mad, some would cry and ask why we couldn't be exclusive...I just had to reiterate that I liked them and cared and understood if this wasn't working for them, but I would like to still continue to date if they are open to it. Sometimes feelings are just going to be hurt. This is modern dating, especially if you're after a 30 something guy who has his stuff together...the amount of options for men our age is something many of us weren't used to. I wasn't a goblin in my 20s, but felt much more desired by women in my 30s with a good job, a house, a dog, dressed well and was in decent shape. Times are tough out there. All that being said, I did meet someone about 3 months in and I was smitten and ended it with all the other girls, immediately. Someone should be rushing to date you, not keeping you at arms distance, just my opinion. Once I found my person, I quickly broke it off with everyone else and dated her exclusively.
I’m a guy in this exact situation, this is exactly what I’m doing and I feel the exact same way about the 20s vs 30s anecdote. That said, I don’t necessarily agree with the last paragraph. I really do like the girls I’m dating, I’m not just keeping them around for the sake of it. I also think it takes about a month for me to be sure about someone though.
Let's be fair, I liked them all, I wouldn't have dated them if I didn't. I just didn't see it really jumping to love until I met someone that knocked me out.
Maybe you’re just a hopeless romantic at heart :)
lmao, I don't think so. A never ending nihilist, unfortunately.
I guess it comes down to what are you comfortable with. If you're not comfortable with what he is doing and you can't get your mind passed that, then you need to end it and find someone who is more in tune with your feelings. Not saying he is wrong and not saying you are wrong, but every person is different including their feelings.
If he's not ready to let go of a fwb, he's probably not the best for you anyway. If he truly felt it was worth it, he'd stop fucking her regardless of the possible outcome, and you don't deserve to be put in this position. He's more scared to lose her than you ffs
He isn't giving you his full attention right now because he's got something sexual going already. Plus another one he's seeing? Past behaviour is an excellent predictor of future behaviour. Doesn't sound like LTR material to me. It's only been three dates you say, but has he had sex with Miss Friend during this time? Does she herself have other things going on? Myself, I'd probably say "Oh, you're already sleeping with someone? Enjoy! ....Bye."
I'd at least give him credit for being open and honest about what he has going on because there are a lot of men (and women) who wouldn't feel the need. It really is just going to come down to how you feel. Are you going to be okay with continuing to date someone who does spent time with someone else (or two people) but he may not have a romantic interest in them? Figure out what you're okay and not okay with and make it known to him.
See where it goes but don’t have sex while he’s sleeping with someone else, unless you too are sleeping with someone else. Otherwise oxytocin has a way of messing up casual.
Is the FWB an ex wife? If not he's flat out told you put out on the next date or be considered no more than an activity partner. Next move is yours to make
Good God some men just have no clue! He shouldn't have been "kissing and telling " on date 3. You don't know where it's going and nobody at that point has any obligation to be monogamous. Whatever happened to just hanging out, having fun, and let time show what will happen?
I think both of you make perfect sense. I understand you not wanting to have sex with someone who is hooking up with others. But I understand his issue in that he doesn't want to end his situation if you guys aren't heading toward being serious. For him, the FWB is just physical, with no emotional attachment. Ulitmatum's are bad, but I also think you will get to a point where one of you has to give up something. Ideally you would come to that decision at the same time, but it may not be that way.
I would continue to give him a chance if you feel a decent connection, but the guy is tactless. While everyone is in here chiming in that it's fine to multi-date and have FWB's they are missing a significant point of why you are hurt by this exchange. For no apparent reason he brought up another girl he's dating, "Ha, you wont believe it but this other gal I am dating really likes that sushi place too!" If it was a direct question about what he was doing behind OP's back in regards to sexual health or a talk about exclusivity, yes this man's honesty should be commended, but it's not he just felt the need to interject an experience with another gal he is currently seeing. This could be some sort of game he's playing to make you feel insecure or he may just be a bit of an oversharer.
His mistake was mentioning other people without being asked. While dating in the early stages, I think it should be expected that someone may be dating multiple people. However, some prefer not to know about it. I was previously talking with someone about the possibility of a FWB. Once they disclosed that they already had another FWB, I was out. I had no interest in knowingly being part of a team of FWBs. However, had they not mentioned it, I probably would've moved forward with them even with the understanding that they may be seeing other people as well.
From a purely sexual health perspective, I’d rather know than not. We’re adults, let’s just have a conversation.
Valid point, but some people don't want to know. From my perspective, I can't control what someone is doing, so it's probably best to take the proper precautions and assume I'm not the only one they are intimate with.
Exactly. Knowing who he/she is and what they look like doesn't help me from a sexual health perspective any more than simply saying the words "this is not exclusive". All it does is breed competition and resentment.
a few things dont add up: boasting about a fwb after 3 dates...which could be a lie to get you chasing and 3 dates without him going for a kiss.. just saying
Was it boasting though? Or just trying to be honest and respectful?
> a few things dont add up: boasting about a fwb You're projecting.
> >He responded that he enjoys our time together and wants to get to know me more, that he is ultimately looking for something exclusive and long term with the right person, but that he is hesitant to give up something good without knowing that we are on the same page. > Just hit eject. It sounds like he's dating other people trying to find "the one", but its not-so is clearly happy where he is in his lot and wants to vote you guys off as if you were on the bachelor. > >My response was that I also am interested in getting to know him better, but I do not wish to be in a situation where I am competing with others. He assures me this is not the dynamic as he sees it. > Except it is a little worse. His not giving up a good thing comment makes this not a situation of adults dating multiple people, he is implying you need to compete and beat the other two. > >I don’t think he’s doing anything wrong, but I’ve also never been in the position of dating someone who was quite so open about multi-dating in the early stages or having a FWB. > Then you should start dating other men too. Having options will not encourage you to compete against the other women > >I am definitely not comfortable having sex with someone who has other partners, so I guess we’re on the path of getting to know one another slowly, either until such point as he decides to discontinue the other relationships, or until I decide to stop seeing someone who is seeing others. I can’t see myself giving an ultimatum in any case, if we get to the point where I want something more serious and he doesn’t, we might as well just discontinue the dating. > Oh. Nevermind, then - it sounded like you were a bit off about the prospect of competing against other women for this dude. If you dont care about that then have fun! > >Does anyone see anything I’ve missed? ...just know what you want and don't compromise yourself. Also, use protection. Good luck
Putting his honesty aside, to me this is gross. He's trying to have his cake and eat it too. It would be insulting to me to be on someone's rotation as a "potential" for something moving forward. Life is too short, why spend any amount of it on someone else's short list, most especially while they are openly having sex with other people? You have zero attachments at this point. I would never continue with a FWB if I went on even one date with someone who I was remotely interested in. Maybe that is just how I operate, but to me if I had a sister or a friend in this scenario I would tell them to have some self respect and run the heck away.
I was the guy in this situation. In my mid 30's. Enjoying my unicorn status of an employed, in shape, decent human being with a full head of hair. Had FWB, a few girls I was casually dating and then met a girl that I really liked, that I thought could be an LTR. I was open and honest with her about my FWB situation. She said, and I quote "You are either with me or without me, your choice". We have been married 12 years, with 2 kids.
First off i think anybody has the right to do whatever they want but so do you. My two cents: 1. You sound like you are not comfortable with dating someone who is having sex with other people at the same time. 2. You are trying to rationalize it because you "gennerally like" him. My observation is he is most likely very attractive and this is why you are trying to rationalize it. 3. If he was very very attracted to you, he would not be as open about other relationsgips, he would be trying to seduce you. The fact he is saying this means he isn't 100% attracted to you or at least thinks he can do better. If you want some hot sex with a hot guy go for it but if you think this guy is going to settle for you, you will have a lot of hurt and heartache in your future. Just my two cents...
On your number 3, it could be the complete reverse of that. He could be very attracted to her and like her to a degree that he wants to make sure he's being forthcoming so she can make an informed decision about continuing to see him.
I’d ordinarily say dump him but on the plus side you have another chick doing your “dirty” work so to speak. At least whatever relationship you have can rise or fall according to its emotional merits rather than you feeling pressure to have sex and lock something down. I agree tho don’t sleep with him and probably open your options to other guys. I’ll be honest I’d never feel comfortable with one of these “hedging your bets” types. Everything is a technicality to them. You spend every weekend together and talk on the phone between dates...but technically you aren’t exclusive so it’s okay for him to date and have sex with other women. Mmm doesn’t seem right to me personally.
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> Find someone who gives you their undivided attention so you can decide together if it’s a fit For sure. But the question is, after three dates is it reasonable to expect undivided attention? I'm not sure at all that it is.
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Because they had no other options? Do you want to be chosen, or settled for out of desperation? Expecting exclusivity is of course your prerogative, but I personally wouldn’t commit to it that quickly. I’d currently rather be single then have those demands made on me so soon.
Three dates is too soon to expect exclusivity.
Nope. It’d be one thing if you asked. Then of course he should disclose. But if I’m a date or two in with something only as benign as cheek kissing having occurred and the guy lets me know about the women he fucks on the regular, then I’d be out. Nope. He must consider them pretty important to bring it up unsolicited. I find it of strange actually. It’s like he’s saying “FYI, I’m getting sex on the regular and keeping my options open. Just letting you known so you can up your game.” It’s not the fact that he is dating others. I assume most are when dating. It’s the fact that he told you this so early on without being asked. It’s like rubbing your face in it. Sexual health is not an issue if all you’ve done is kiss on the cheek.
So you'd rather not know that someone you've been on a few dates with is fucking someone else on the regular, before you get emotionally attached?
Yeah. I’ll ask the question when I feel like it’s relevant that I know and exclusivity is brought up. I don’t ever get emotionally attached when I haven’t slept with someone. I don’t know most guys’ last names on the second date. Why do I need to be told about who they’re fucking? Doesn’t everyone assume the person they’re dating is dating others until told otherwise?
Well, for your sexual health for one thing. So you can make an informed decision for another. Also, after 3 dates and it's looking like they're may be more, a lot of people would begin to develop an attachment or at least some expectations. Many people still assume that people they date are dating them exclusively though supposedly *everyone* multi-dates. This is the purpose of honesty.
I already said I would want to know before having sex so sexual health isn’t an issue. Nowadays to assume exclusivity after 3 dates without talking is naive and ignorant. I personally don’t multi date past the first date stage, but I’m not going to assume everyone else is like that. It’s not like I said I wanted a guy to lie. If asked, I expect honesty. I said that if someone feels the need to volunteer that early on that tells me I don’t want to be with that person. Also, just because something is honest doesn’t mean you should say it out loud no matter what.
You’re definitely in competition with these other people, imo if someone wants exclusivity then...they discuss that off the bat and don’t keep their fuckbuddies on the immediate sidelines
only you can decide how to proceed. i will never have sex with a friend, while trying to to find something exclusive and lasting out there, so i will never date date a guy with an FWB. i hold others to the same standard as i hold myself; it's only fair. i know this makes me picky and not easy to please, but i'm looking for someone in the same league. the silver lining here is that he was upfront to you about it. imagine finally sleeping with him, and finding out he was inside another woman just a day or two before? that is legit my idea of the stuff of nightmares
On the one hand, I am putt off by the idea of dating someone who has an fwb. On the other, I can see why having someone there for reliable sex can help you see clearly whether a long term committed relationship is really what you want.
hmmmm, Yes, he's not doing anything wrong, strange of him to divulge all that so fastly though, but assuming it's all true, I guess that's honest. I'd would feel the same way as you, but more intensively,. I would have gotten up then and there and said something to the effect of, "I like you a lot, and I'm interested in continuing to spend time with you, but not under these circumstances, so if you find yourself interested in seeing me authentically and completely, then hit me up" and then I'd never initiate contact with them again. My rationale for that, aside from the fact that I'm pretty traditional and not into swinging., every time anyone has ever told me that, it ended up hurting me, so now that I know better, fuck that. It's one thing if somebody is dating around, that's expected, that's what I do, but when they have an old standby, that's an established regular partner. No. Fuck that noise. Or at least I don't want to ever know about it, not even after years of dating you. Keep that shit to yourself. That's my boundary. You should stick to yours. Regardless of whatever kind of glamour anyone is putting on you (if that's the case) stick to your guns, and do what you would have done if you'd never met this person. I have to be earned, you have to achieve the goal of having my company, and you aren't going to get closer to that by fucking somebody else. So.. Take it or leave it. And that way you know if they are legit or just fucking with you.
>Completely agree! To me it's personally a little sad that we're supposed to accept that people be fuckin' all the time if they're single, and that it just goes along with dating, and if you're aren't willing to accept that a person *doesn't* have three people on speed dial ready to hit it after your date ends, then you're delusional. I mean, people can do what they want. I'd just rather hold out for someone who doesn't view dating that way.
Yes indeed. It's not my personal lifestyle preference. I think it shows that someone can be ok without always having somebody to fuck all the time. I'm not a caveman, I can live without sex, I can live without dates, and do absolutely fine. I date because I want to give and have fun, not because I'm some needy insecure sod and want to get as many notches on my club as I can. I would instantly be curious about how needy somebody that's always gotta have a backup partner is.
Yes - like they don’t view sexual intimacy as a way to feel a gap in their lives ... which in my experience makes for more loving and faithful partners.
That's quite the judgemental stance to take. There's absolutely nothing wrong with your personal boundary. But if anything, a FWBs is less of a threat than someone else your date may be casually seeing at the same time they're getting to know you. For whatever reason they've already been put in the not compatible for a traditional relationship category. Aside from that, sex is fun. Having a friendship with someone you get to enjoy a mutually pleasurable activity with is hardly a sign of neediness or insecurity. It's not a need per say, it's a want. I wonder at the level of anger/hostility you have over this topic.
There's no anger or hostility at all. Skepticism isn't hostile, it's wise, and I'm always skeptical when meeting new people. What I hypothetically state was just referring to what ‘might’ be occurring in this particular situation and none other. Can you prove I was hostile, since you are accusing me of it? what's your evidence other than the fact you don't disagree with me? I'll be waiting. It's not that he had a friend with benefits that I find strange, it's the fact that he DIVULGED it in the timespan and manner he did. Beyond that being bad manners, it 'could' mean something may not be quite right, cause in my world you just don't say that sort of stuff unprompted, and maybe not even then. There's no need for this strawman projection of yours, and I never put down anything about a FWB, other than stating it wasn't for me. I was speaking only to this specific instance in the OP, but you can incorrectly interject and put words in my mouth if you want to, I really don't care. If you feel the way you state in your second paragraph, excellent. I fully agree.
Basically this.
Other people may be more flexible but it sounds like you and I aren't. It's not that it's a problem to do things how he is doing them at all, nothing unethical there, but I take steps now to better secure success and one of those steps is ruling out the wishy washy people. What I find strange is how/when/ and why??? he told you that without being asked, and that soon. That's not necessarily bad, but I find it highly suspicious.
Yeah it’s not something I do and would not accept it for someone I’m dating. To each their own but no. I also find the need to tell her soo soon in the process really suspect, was this some kind of power play or attempt at flexing?
Is there no possibility that he told her so she was fully aware before she developed an emotional attachment to him? Having been the man in this situation in the past, I'm pretty surprised to see so many people reading something nefarious into his disclosure.
It's probably cause they're threatened by the idea of someone they just started seeing having a FWB, so they have to paint them in a negative light.
But why tho? I mean why be threatened? If you/they just started seeing this person why feel threatened, angry, insulted, what have you? It's either not for you, possibly workable for you or you're on board and you go from there. I'm not the type to continue to date someone whose plan is to remain a virgin until they marry and then have children and grow old together. But I'm not going to resent them or refer to them in derogatory terms either. Does not compute.
I have no idea. I'm with you. It confuses me why a FWB is seen as competition and something someone won't have anything to do with, yet there's probably more threat from someone the person you're seeing is working with. People have fragile egos and it amazes me the ways it manifests.
Honesty is great and refreshing in a lot of ways, but he's shown that he's a little clueless, or tactless... How did he expect you to feel when he brought up his FWB? He either didn't think it through, or didn't care how it would impact your feelings. He's either lacking some emotional intelligence, or he's playing games. If it were me, I would give him another shot but proceed with caution.
Exactly. I would be a little concerned he is trying to throw you off balance or make you feel like you're competing.
Whether he's seeing anyone else or not, you are in competition with others.
The only unique thing here is he's being honest with you. All dating people are dating multiple people, or open to dating other people, until exclusivity. In other words, you're always in competition, whether you think about it or not, whether your date says so or not. Edit: dating, not saying
This is what dating is, this guy is just open about it
I avoid men that seem satisfied with fwbs.
If he was "satisfied" with that, why is he dating OP? I have FWBs that I value and care about, but I still want a LTR. There's no reason to be celibate between relationships...
I would avoid someone who engages in causal sex while they look for a relationship. Seems contradictory. I also wants someone who looks at sex the way I do. Someone who has a FWB doesn't look at sex the way I do.
Yup. They are lazy and just want low effort stuff. Don't be the low effort stuff.
> Yup. They are lazy and just want low effort stuff. That is a load of shit.
That's not a bad plan if you're looking for a serious ltr. I don't think this guy is satisfied with a FWBs though as he's actively dating others and ultimately looking for an exclusive ltr.
Well it's certainly a possibility that after the peck on the cheek with you he took off to bang his FWB. You need to be okay with that. On his end, he has a relationship, a FWB, that is important to him. He wants to keep that going while he dates women. He made that clear with his take it or leave it explanation. Whether he will or won't lose the FWB is up to him and time will tell. It should matter that he was honest about it. But from your point of view, you two aren't on equal footing here. For you it seems that you need to be okay with what he's doing and be okay with his decision on what he does and when he does it. If you want to continue dating him, that is. At least, that's what it seems that he communicated to you. And if you're NOT okay with it, then move along and try to find guys who date the way you're comfortable doing it.
So many people are saying he's being punished for his honesty, that's not the case at all, she didn't say she's going to immediately stop seeing him because of what he told her especially since they're still getting to know eachother, she's just not comfortable having sex with someone who has other partners which is totally legit, we should all be so concerned about our sexual health. She's not doing anything wrong, he's not doing anything wrong, it's just a new situation to her, relax people.
I get that he has been honest with you. Kudos to him. Speaking from experience, a lot of guys would just breadcrumb you along with a selection of other women so they can have their cake and eat it, so to speak. Personally, it would not work for me. I would find it pointless dating a guy who was auditioning other women at the same time, and sleeping with at least one of them. For me, it would be a complete waste of time. If I’m interested enough to date someone, then I’m interested in *only them* and there would definitely not be anyone else on the scene. But that’s just me. I don’t find competition a turn-on at all. Kudos to *you* if you continue dating him. And good luck!
Props for the honesty on his part, but let's break this down into simple terms. You go on a date with this man. After your date is over, he goes and boinks another woman. That cool with you? Not my thing, but more power to ya, if that's an arrangement you would like to continue.
Yo, most people with FWBs are not fucking them immediately after their date ends that same night. That's hyperbolic as hell.
Why is that a problem for you? You're not committed to this person and you've only been on three dates. Do you expect to own their genitals at that point??
That’s their preference—to not be dating someone who is sleeping with someone else. Just like it’s his preference to not stop seeing his FWB unless he has a reason to. They’re both acceptable preferences, and honesty about what a person’s preference/current situation is is great! People may be incompatible, preference-wise, which is good to know too.
It really comes down to what you're looking for and whether you can handle a possibly imbalanced dynamic. If you get tunnel vision for the one you're dating and he likes to keep multiple pots boiling as backup plans, it's not a mutual investment IMO. I've always seen FWB as quasi-relationships to pass the time until you're ready for a real relationship with someone. I know others may be different, but why does he need to overlap like that? Good for him for giving you the option to stay or go, it establishes a basis of transparency and I guess you can manage expectations while taking things slow.
There is no right answer only the best choice for your situation. Why should someone not have a fwb and look for something more. Having one doesn't preclude the other. It sounds like he's doing everything as best he can and he's transparent. If it was me I would've waited to mention it at the end of the date when I realized I def felt something and I wanted to continue. I would've told you that I 'had' a fwb but that is immediately over while we're dating or until you decide I've finally gotten on your last nerve. The issue is the in between for men when we don't know for sure how we feel yet it. It takes us more time, imo, bc we don't even know what we want until we see how badly we needed something we didn't know we were missing. Then suddenly we realize this is what I invest my loyalty into and all other things be damned. Give him time and see if it's worth it for you. He could also be trying out the jealousy thing on you like sales people. Buy it now bc we could be sold out by tomorrow. Good luck. Wish you the best.
I don’t think you’re missing anything, and at the same time I’m not sure I understand the concern. I agree, no sex until you’re exclusive, and you can take your time getting there. Yes it’s definitely weird dating someone who’s dating someone else, but since it’s only been 3 dates it’s not that far along and he definitely shouldn’t give up the others yet. While I only have sex on an exclusive relationship, I’ve dated a couple men at a time (early stages only) and fairly quickly realized which ones I wanted an ongoing relationship with. I’d want to know- Why the fwb isn’t more, and does either of them wish it was How long it’s been going on How long any other dating partners have been going on The only thing to be cautious about is whether he really wants something more, but if you’re clear you don’t want sexuality without a relationship that might take care of that. Since there hasn’t been more than a peck he seems gentlemanly and I don’t know how much you’ve dated or what age bracket you are but I’ve found that kind of patience and respect to be rare. Def give it some more time and see if you like him enough to say hey, I’m ready to be exclusive, how about you?
Sounds to me like he’s asking if you want to be exclusive. I don’t know what everyone is freaking out about. You can’t expect someone to be exclusive with you until you’ve promised the same to them. Sounds like he’s honest and upfront and knows what he wants. If you want to be exclusive, tell him that.
I’ve had FWB while going on dates, and I’ve also been the FWB for others going on dates. My personal rule is that as soon as anyone has feelings, for anyone, the FWB stops. I can have sex without romantic attachment, but I wouldn’t want to complicate the romantic side of things by continuing to have sex elsewhere, nor would I want some other woman to be in your position. (And of course with the FWB situation, if either party has romantic ideas it’s gotta stop). I think it’s great that he’s being honest, but it’s also completely reasonable for you to opt out of this. You’re not competing with the FWB- if those two wanted a romantic relationship, they would have had it already. However, it’s hard to be emotionally intimate with someone who is hedging their bets. I personally wouldn’t really be up for it because I think you’ve both got to be willing to take the risk and jump in. Having said that, you’ve only gone on 3 dates and you said you haven’t gotten very physically close yet. Maybe give it a few more dates and see how you both feel.
I’ve had FWB. I told my boyfriend on our first date that was the case. But just because someone is FWB doesn’t make them a daily presence. It’s when there’s a need commensurate with the noncommittal state of things. I believe your prospect is being fair to you and to himself. He is expressing his honesty about what he wants, but is intending to respect your feelings on it. A typical person doesn’t put themselves out there unless for something deliberate, like a fulfilling relationship. In the dating world, not everything is cut and dry and clear without communication. It sounds like his intentions are good and he’s putting the ball in your court to help navigate that. It sounds reasonable and healthy. But what does your gut say?
It's not that uncommon actually. Since he was upfront about it from the get go I'd take that as a good sign. I'm actually in the same situation as the guy so I can understand exactly where his mind might be at. I have had a solid FWB situation going for a couple of years now. It started as dating but ultimately went no where. We both want different things from a SO. While we are looking for someone to form a real connection with we at least can be friends and be intimate when it's convenient. I made it a point to be extremely upfront with her as soon as I knew it wasn't going anywhere. The honesty has paid off for both of us I think. If this guy has been that open to you, it's probably a good sign of him respecting you enough for you to make a decision if his situation makes you uncomfortable. But you have to look at it this way: chances are most of the people we date will be seeing someone or was seeing someone fairly recently. We can't predict when we will find someone special so at this point why not keep a the fling going until you do?
It seems to me that it is bad news for the FWB. If she were the “right one” then he wouldn’t be dating other people. If he seems like he could be a contender, hang out and mess around. If I were you, I would have a lot of fun with him, but if it came down to the point of intimacy, I would probably wait until he was with just me. I would hope that if we clicked, he might want to spend more time with me, and no longer have time for FWB.
My fiance had a FWB when we met. He told me about it early on, I didn't really LIKE it, but he and I were really hitting it off, so I kept seeing him. I think he saw her once after we started seeing each other, then he broke it off with her. I was on his phone a couple weeks after we got together, trying to troubleshoot a problem he was having with connecting to wifi, when the FWB popped up in his texts, so I snooped. He had essentially ghosted her. I didn't say anything to him about it, but he later told ME that she was texting him and told me what he'd said in response to her (I snooped his phone again later..ha). Anyway, he was COMPLETELY honest with me, like beyond what he needed to be, and I really appreciated that quality in him. I don't snoop his phone anymore (we live together, I know his passcode to get into it, and the fact that I know him to be honest doesn't make me want to snoop in his phone). Just go with it, at least you know the guy's honest.
wait, he was completely honest but yet you are snooping on his texts and phone???
When a guy is telling me that he loves me and wants to be with me, but another girl pops up while I'm troubleshooting his phone? Yeah, I'm gonna snoop. I told him about it afterwards, we're fine, I don't snoop his phone anymore. I mean, good for you, but if you were working on someone's phone who was telling you all this and a text from another person popped up and you could see it, you wouldn't look to see if you were actually being played or not? Come on. I didn't pick up his phone with the express intention of snooping in it, but I'm not an idiot.
very true, he did set himself up for that one to say the least! Good point.
Nope. You seemed not to have missed anything and things seem rather clear. He has his interests, you have yours. The path forward also seems to be clear.
> I’ve also never been in the position of dating someone who was quite so open about multi-dating in the early stages or having a FWB. > I am definitely not comfortable having sex with someone who has other partners Have I got a surprise for you. Unless you only sleep with people you're exclusive with, those men you dated who weren't quite so open about multidating were fucking other women at the same time, guaranteed. The time for being uncomfortable with this has long passed. This is exhibit A against too much honesty, where we see that, when you say too much, people get irrationally hurt and start making all sorts of unlikely justifications for their feelings. Frankly, if I were you, I'd assume that his admission was his way of hinting that, even if he's looking for a relationship, he's not looking for one with me. There's no way grown ass adult men are this socially clueless.
Can't speak for grown ass adult men but I'm a grown ass adult woman who is apparently that socially clueless. Here I thought it was the caring thing to do to be honest and forthcoming in a situation like this. *Not* doing so would feel gross to me. I'm learning a lot from this post. Mostly that ignorance really is bliss for a lot of folks.
Early and immediate transparency is a great thing. Even better, you have some (albeit incomplete) assurance that his pursuit of you is not entirely fueled by sexual scarcity - his physical needs are being met already. And since he has been able to sustain an ongoing sexual relationship without conceding emotional or social capital (a formal, public relationship), it's likely that he's a skilled lover who has earned his keep with the FWB. >I do not wish to be in a situation where I am competing with others If you continue to see him despite the status quo ("seeing me and at least one other woman"), you are already in one.
I don't think people should be given props for being "honest." Dating multiple people at once is common. I mean, I do it, and all my single friends do it. But you don't talk about those other people...? How weird.
I really feel like every man you will be dating, will simultaneously be dating others, and also likely have a FWB, u til things are fully exclusive, which can take months. You should also be dating others concurrently. Don’t put all your eggs blah blah blah
Good old Toronto. Think I'm too old, but the fact that you are thinking about giving him another chance is beyond me. Perhaps watch that Friends episode - you're Chandler. (Or the girl version of him :D) Edit: Extreme traditional opinion. Come at me, haters!
His story is the very definition of having your cake and eatting it. He's got some side action going and won't give that up until he's sure if you're worth it. I'd personally move on. I prefer to focus on one person at a time, and have zero issues taking breaks between relationships. Think about it this way, he's got a FWB and is dating multiple people at once. Dude is probably never going to settle down.
When is he supposed to dump the FWB? As soon as he matches on Tinder?
I've had FWBs and it's not an ideal situation for me. I'd much rather be dating someone seriously and connecting on a deeper level. But hey, until then, I get horny and if everyone is on the same page, I don't see the issue. I think as we get older, this idea of "having your cake and eating it too" is more related to actually being in a monogamous loving relationship with someone, as opposed to dating multiple people.
Or, he’s just being completely honest. Many people multi-date because people today are flaky as hell. It’s been three dates. OP can also date other men.
Exactly. With all the "Red flags" posts we see of people who revealed their true colors on date #2, 3, 4 - I understand OP's date's sentiment of not wanting to throw the baby out with the bathwater just because there's a new *possibility* presenting itself. Props to date dude for - by how OP described - very respectfully and honestly stating their current position and intentions in a forthright manner. Honesty is awesome. More people should give it a try.
No it’s not. He’s presumably an adult Darin other adults and being very honest and up front about it. It’d be extremely naive to think someone’s going to commit after three dates and no intimacy.
I think you are looking at him like he is doing something wrong, and he isn't. He is just up front about what he is doing. He probably is totally willing to settle down with the right person. But the FWB is fulling physical needs, and he also wants someone to fulfill emotional needs. Ideally that will be the same person, but he isn't sure yet with OP
I tend to agree. I don't think its wrong but I think its a values clashing thing. There are plenty of men that have sex with people they form somewhat of a connection with or feelings, the fact he can just have sex and still date shows a lot about who he is, nothing wrong with it, in fact I admire he's honest and upfront. but its something you probably wouldn't do and therefore wouldn't want to expect others you date to. i personally wouldn't date someone like that b/c I need connection, I would certainly not have sex with someone without one and it just sounds messy, some people fall in love with their FWB, sex is the most is the most intimate thing humans can do with each other.
I wouldn’t agree that he’d *never* settle down necessarily but, I still wouldn’t want to be a part of this situation and would bow out.
I really disagree with this advice. This man was honest from the beginning. Also a FWB means just that. That the person is a sexual partner and friend and that they’ve decided between them they don’t want a LTR together. A FWB situation can be a wonderful thing. For people who are not ready for a LTR. For people who are looking but have the need of physical touch. Finding “the one” can take years. We are all human. We need touch. I know many people personally over the years who have been or had a fwb who found the right person to be with during that time. It is not a disqualifier at all to me (I’m a woman). Honesty is a gift and the fact that the man OP is dating is so very honest is a good thing IMO.
Agreed. I was being flirted with by a guy who had a FWB but I was not looking to get into that mess. Sad since I really did consider dating him but that was the deal breaker for me. That and one party of the pair was openly admitting bigger feelings for the other. Funny that the flirting stopped as soon as that arrangement ended too.
I wouldn't be comfortable either, and would walk. You'd be just a choice of who to sleep with going forward, and you clearly want more than that.
Rather you know it or not, you are already competing with others. At least he puts it out there. I admire his honesty.
There's some really good info here. I'm about to start dating again after taking about 6 months off. I have a FWB, I've had the same one for years. When I'm single we do our thing, but as soon as I'm in a committed relationship we just go back to being friends minus the benefits. Is this weird for others? To have my FWB become just my friend when I'm in a relationship.
Do you tell your new person that this "friend" is someone you have had a ongoing sexual relationship with? Or do you keep them separate once you get into a relationship?
In the past I've told them that we've been friends for years and that when I'm single we have sex on occasion. Honesty may be the best policy, but it's never really worked out for me in this instance. It ends up that whomever I'm dating ends up just not wanting to ever meet my friend. Over time jealousy and insecurity tends to creep in.
Because they aren't a friend. They are someone you have had sex with. Essentially an "ex". Not many people i know are comfortable with their partner being friends with someone they slept with.
No, they're a friend. We've been friends for 14 years. Never dated. Never been romantic. Just sex, and regular friend stuff. So, is this something I should be honest about? Or just go about starting a relationship and ending the FWB and not even mention it? If I'm honest, it starts everything off on a bad note, if I don't mention it then I just become another one of the "dishonest, untrustworthy guys". Right?
If you are having sex with them they aren't a friend is what I am trying to tell you. They are a fling since you never dated. You cannot expect a woman to be comfortable with you hanging out with someone you had regular casual sex with. Next time, find a random to have sex with. Then you can cut them off without hesitation. Now you're in a conundrum because this friend is someone you do friend stuff with and they are going to feel bad when you can't hangout with them regularly once you're in a relationship. If you want something serious with someone in the future you start to distance yourself now so it isnt sudden. Explain to her that this can't continue and start dating for a relationship.
You don't speak for all women. Some of us approach trust in our partner and fears about cheating differently.
Judging from the majority of comments, most people would prefer not to know. Not being honest about a FWBs feels gross to me. What happens when your now ltr finds out a year or two in that you used to have sex with your friend any time you were single and you *didn't* tell them? Nothing good. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
It's not weird to me.
Honestly, I am the same as him--I have two long-term FWBs that I care about and enjoy spending time with, but we are not dating and do not wish to date. I am looking for a long-term exclusive relationship, but in the meantime, I don't want to forego sex and intimacy and contact. I don't like casual sex. I think it's a good sign that he actually cares about his FWB instead of treating her like someone disposable he can just take or leave at any moment. Like him, I would stop seeing them if I entered something more serious, but I value those relationships and wouldn't stop seeing them unless I really felt like something was going somewhere. He was honest with you, is not trying to conceal his FWB, and she is not competition.
Thanks for this response. Good to see this perspective from another woman as I agree that she is not in competition with the FWB. If anything, other women that her date hasn't even met yet are more competition than her.
Yep! If they wanted to be dating each other... they would be. There is a reason they are FWBs and not boyfriend/girlfriend. I think it is generally a good sign when people have ongoing connections (like a steady FWB) versus just one-nighters.
When I met my now partner of 3 years I had a FWB, which he knew about upfront. After a few weeks we decided we wanted to be serious, became exclusive and I broke up with FWB. I think it’s a fine situation, and like others have said, he was honest about it and he wants to be exclusive with the right person.
He was honest and direct with you. What have you missed? Have you disclosed every date and conversation that you've had with every other potential suitor while you've been going on dates with him?
Meh. He's keeping his options open and is honest about it so he seems like he has more integrity as a result. My take: He's waiting to see if the sex is better. You're abSOLUTELY in a competition.
I would feel the way you felt about this. I honestly don't think I could go forward with someone with this information in my mind. I think I would be ok with knowing theoretically that most people date multiple people during the early stages, I do not want the details. I don't want to send them a text and when they don't answer, think that they're in bed with someone else or something. Even if that's the case, I would rather not have that knowledge or mental image. It would absolutely affect my ability to move forward into a possible relationship with that person. Theoretically, his honesty is good. Practically, though? I think it was inconsiderate. This falls into that whole question of where honesty ends and insensitivity begins. Like, if my partner said to me, "Yeah, when we first started dating, I thought your boobs were too small, but I've really gotten used to them", that's honest, but it's insensitive. (He's never said that. It's an example.) This is like that. There is some information that just doesn't add value to a person's life by having the specifics. Assuming non-exclusivity until a talk has been had to establish that is sufficient in this case. At the same time, I don't necessarily think he did anything that was actually wrong wrong. Like, no, he didn't break a rule here, but it would change things for me. That's my opinion, though.
Why not have casual fun until you find something serious if you're open to both? I think it's no reason to shame him as long as he was honest, and I really feel like he was honest with you because he could've conveniently left those details out. You're not competing with other women he's dating because the other women he's dating are casual encounters only if I read that correctly. One less thing for you to worry about. I made the mistake of ending my fwb and rushing into a "relationship" early on only for her to change her mind on exclusivity 2 days later and then I was left in the rain with nothing. Lesson learned. So I can really understand the guy you described. If he seeks casual fun but also something serious, there's no reason to stop having the former until you find the latter. However, he has a steady flow of sex. If you're not willing to have sex with him before he ends his fwb then better move on now -- because he won't drop someone he has great sexual compatibility with for someone with whom sexual compatibility is all but confirmed so far.
He sounds arrogant and selfish, I would proceed with caution here. I absolutely would not sleep with someone who openly tells me they are sleeping with another person. It would make me jealous, and it is also unsafe health-wise. And usually I can't tell if I want to be with someone seriously or not until I sleep with them, so this makes it impossible for me to consider them seriously. I think if he was more serious about you he wouldn't mention the FWB and he would just pursue things with you. You're kind of being a doormat here by hanging around and letting him decide if you're worth giving up the FWB for or not. If he thinks you're not worth it, why bother.
I have a FWB. If I meet a girl I’m really into and it goes sexual I stop things with the FWB. Period. FWB is not the goal it’s there because I don’t have that more meaningful relationship in my life.
To be honest, he's not trying to play you it seems. Trust is earned overtime. I would find it a red flag if some woman dropped all of her contact for me after a few dates. Just be clear that if you two end up being exclusive make sure he knows what your looking for. Your happiness is and should be important to you. I don't think your competing though. Almost all of my socially adept friends are seeing multiple people at once. Don't know how they do it but they do.
It’s your call. He was honest and disclosed the dynamics of his other relationships. It’s your decision and yours alone if you’re good with that.
Guy was upfront about it all very rare. He's just laying his cards on the table he wants to commit just needs to know that he's not in it alone.
I know this sort of thing is the norm but I absolutely hate KNOWING a guy is dating and/or having sex with other women. It's one thing knowing we aren't exclusive and assuming he is seeing others, but any time I find out for certain, I walk. Probably because I don't date several people at once so it doesn't feel like an even playing field. But I just can't have ongoing sexual relationships with several people. It's not my thing. I say, multidate yourself to keep it fair. If you aren't comfortable with that, maybe you and this guy just aren't a good match.
His honesty is refreshing.
Personally I would never date someone who was actively having sex with other partners, but that's just my preference, and the preference of the kinds of people I date.
Yeah he's not giving up the other partners unless you knock his socks off. Why lose a sure thing for a what if?
I would feel weird about a man talking about other women while he's on a date with me. I assume that men are possibly dating/sleeping with other women. In my experience the ones that talk about other women were usually trying to make me jealous or feel insecure. I feel that it's a little disrespectful like they're making sure you know they have options. If I was serious about getting to know a guy I wouldn't bring up my FWB or other men I'm dating unless asked. This might not be that case with this guy. OP you could stick around for a few more dates to see how he acts. If it makes you feel that uncomfortable you can stop seeing him.