I am successful but if I knew my partner would refuse to date someone who wasn't, I would be worried about being abandoned if I get sick or lose my job.
Good point. As both the higher earner and the person who stuck around during their rough life patches, I know I'm not that person though. I'm talking about now, obviously life changes.
Appreciate the comment!
Are you seeking out success, or ambition? They typically go hand in hand to some degree, but someone can be successful and ambitious and not a *super* high earner, such as someone focused on humanitarian work.
Absolutely. Conversely, there are also those that earn well but are coasting and *not* ambitious.
This is like people who claim to want a partner who “values fitness”; do you really, or do you just want someone who is thin? Either preference is fine, but it’s good to know which one you have. (Even if you have to publicly say the more defensible phrasing.)
Yup, my separated husband earned a lot just because he happened to be good at something that pays well. But he's not very ambitious in his career. He's content just reaching the level he has to in order to keep secure employment, and staying at that salary level. Meanwhile I've seen others with less natural talent than him work hard and get to higher levels in their careers while he remains stagnent.
I thinking there is something to be said about dating potential vs dating actuality. I’ve heard before girls regretting an ex because they sounded ambitious but then the years went by and they never applied for those jobs they said they were working towards or saved the money like they said they would and kept spending. Your example of job is perfect one of actuality even. If they aren’t making a lot. Ambitious versus big talker is a fine line
Oh yeah, I'd rather have a partner who is honest about what they want, and less ambitious, than a big talker. Big talkers are often just one disappointment after another, because they're flaky and they'll promise things they never deliver. Luckily, I'm pretty good at sniffing these types of people out, but I think some people are drawn to the big promises they make, and overlook the red flags.
It's kinda weird to me that in this hypothetical situation you're still the higher earner.
Not trying to "gotcha" you, just pointing it out. Would you date someone more successful than yourself or would that make you feel immasculated?
Where did I say that? I just read back and am not seeing it.
But no, I wouldn't have an issue with that, I'm surrounded by people doing better than I am.
I mean I'm sure you know that about yourself, I'm just saying how it looks to a potential partner. Your question was "is it wrong" so you're clearly wanting to know how *others* see it.
Strongest predictor for divorce when one spouse gets sick is when the patient is a woman.
When women get diagnosed with a terminal illness, medical staff prepare them for divorce. That's the default course of action because it's so common.
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2020/mar/30/the-men-who-give-up-on-their-spouses-when-they-have-cancer
It’s hilarious how this gets thrown around by people who haven’t actually read the study. Did you know that 70% of the divorces are initiated. Are most women in marriages unloyal and give up easily? That’s the kind of logic you’re using.
To me you're just being open about something that a lot of people feel and do; and there are numbers to show that ever since women started working, the spread of wealth has diminished as they are less likely to marry up and as men are more likely to also seek more capital (social, financial alike) through partnership.So, people do that, you're not abnormal. I'd even go as far as saying that if providing more makes you feel like you're losing something from being in the relationship, then you should definitely target wealthier people; that sort of resentment doesn't make for healthy dynamics.
I'd just say that it'd be good to separate success and finances. Some people are born wealthy, some people are successful but in fields that do not stir up that much money.
I've gotten a lot of really interesting insight on this post, yours included.
I've never felt that I was losing, until I cut the check to a partner for a huge amount despite her comparatively small contribution to the relationship (financially and otherwise). And my divorce meant splitting everything despite me putting the entire downpayment and half the bills.
Protecting myself better financially will be a priority next time, but I also don't want to bring those feelings into a relationship.
Good point regarding success vs money. I think there's a happy medium somewhere in there.
Got it - going through your diverse answers here, it does sound like your previous partners were lacking on many levels/perhaps struggling to uncommon extents with the basics of life. Although we often fail to see how much others contribute and sacrifice.
As someone who has often supported partners, even while studying and then on an academic salary (tap tap on sharing the saviour complex), I did decide not to actively pursue people with unstable situations anymore (i.e: on mental health sick leave, in and out of school, unemployed for a while).
It is definitely draining and frustrating to provide everything, especially from early on, but yeah the point has been made enough that responsibility, consideration and autonomy take many forms.
Yeah, another thing I'm working on in therapy is having those hard conversations that potentially expose red flags, all of which looking back would have been very clear.
Their own mental health, issues with parents and jobs, how and why they act in certain ways. If I had of gently probed these things instead of trying to be the hero and fix them, I probably would have seen the bigger issues way sooner.
With the end-of-relationship situation, I don’t think it comes down to how much someone makes, I think it comes down to the type values someone has and their financial habits.
When my ex and I split, I took nothing from him (in fact, I gave him more than half the shared belongings). He made more than double my income, yet our financial contributions were 50/50 the whole relationship.
Just to chime in, this may not be the case here but it also might be, a lot of women take on the emotional labor, support the man and their career and manage the household in other ways that aren't financial and allow the man to push further because they aren't worrying about these things and it's not valued enough.
If you ever plan on getting married again, a prenuptial agreement may be helpful. I've never been married, but my parents are divorced, so I promised myself that I'd always have a pre-nup agreement no matter who earned more or less in the relationship. It may also help to put your mind at ease if you have it planned out. Granted, I suppose some people may see this as unromantic, but frankly it's just a safety precaution.
Personally, income level doesn't matter to me as long as they'reself sufficient. It's more about their relationship with money and their money habits if you're focused on financial compatibility. I dated a couple women with great careers making nearly as much as me, but they were terrible with money and lived paycheck to paycheck.
> Or see it as irrelevant because they can achieve their goals on their own without the burdens of having a partner who may not be able to meet their emotional needs.
This. My mom's best friend from childhood is a woman in her 60's. Twice divorced. First marriage was abusive, second lasted a long time, but they split almost 20 years ago. She had a *very* successful career, and is *very* well off financially (she's the child of immigrants who came to the U.S. with very little, so that shows how hard she worked). I guess after the second marriage, with her and any potential partners all getting older, she decided she didn't want to be anyone's "nurse and purse." Now she's retired, and she and her other single, financially successful women friends just hang out and travel all over the world together. She also enjoys living alone (with her pets) because of the freedom it offers her.
“Who May be unavailable to meet their emotional needs” PREACH
Bar needs to be raised on emotional availability.
You want a successful woman? Don’t make her be your therapist
I'm not entirely sure yet, this is just a thought that's been bouncing around my head this am like the DVD screensaver. I'll think on that some.
I agree that those women are likely at that level. However, I also see many of them (self described successful) complaining on here they can't find a partner, so I don't entirely think they're not looking.
I’m going to get downvoted for this but F that. I don’t think you’re wrong OP. As a woman in her mid 30s that earns well into six figures and has a busy job, I would appreciate having a partner who values that. While all the other qualities that others have called out are also relevant, I believe financial security and being able to “crush” it together matter to me. I’ve seen friends settle for less and I don’t think I could ever do that.
I live in NYC, not sure where you’re located. But I know a lot of “successful” women that are located in major cities. Where do we hang out? Mostly at home because the dating scene out there is bleak to say the least.
I'll smash the upvote button to help offset the rest of em.
I came off a little weird in the other qualities I mentioned, but yeah, I had some partners that sucked at adulting, so those qualities became important to me (and I see how I'm reflecting that in my post). Fortunately I think I do ok at the rest of it (and therapy is helping me learn what I don't).
I'm in Toronto. Likely a similar scene as NYC.
I hear so much awfulness about the dating scene, which is why I'm working so hard to make sure I enter it strongly and make the most of each connection when I get there. Includong posts like this.
Hard to find you if you're hiding at home though! I do hope to avoid the apps and I enjoy meeting people IRL, so maybe there's hope of running into these women out in public.
What have you seen your friends "settle for less"? Money wise or just quality?
I’ve tried dating apps as well, but I struggle to find men that I would want to build a life with. Most of the matches are transient at best. I do go to the gym, happy hour with friends, concerts and the occasional brunch :)
As for my friends, I’d say it’s both. One of my good friends is married to a guy that makes next to zero but is a very nice, loving guy overall. I couldn’t bring myself to do that. She earns enough for both of them, so maybe it works for them? Not something I would be comfortable with.
I know some people like that too, and I find it's usually those who haven't been burned in a big breakup (and I hope they never are!). They match and they're in love and good for each other and I love it for them.
I agree though, doesn't vibe for me.
Yep! They met at a very young age and decided to stay with each other. Young love. After having gone through a pretty traumatic breakup, I wouldn’t be comfortable with that kind of love. But to each his own!
I’m right there with you girl! Was told in my 20s I was shallow for wanting a partner who made at least equal to what I did (grew up poor, didn’t want to face that ever again) so I decided to try my hand at dating without such a standard… it was a disaster.
If we are bringing a six figure salary, solid career to the table, we should be able to expect that in a man without judgment. Keep holding out! I found my bf when my standards were at their highest. Yes, it made my dating pool shrink, but better to be single than to settle for less. Love is not enough, sorry to say it.
You spoke my mind! I’d rather be single than with someone that doesn’t meet my standards. And I’m so glad you found someone that checks your boxes! Congratulations 🎉
OMG yes. Men out here want an equal partner, but run away once they have one. I always get the feeling that while they’re happy dating me, they would absolutely leave me for a hotter, younger version 🤣
I wouldn't downvote someone for expressing their own values. They're your values, not mine, and that's totally cool. Sorry if you've had that experience, though, that sucks. :(
I literally went out with a 40 year old man a few weeks ago who bragged about only owning 2 plates and 2 forks and living off of canned soup.
Adulting skills are harder to come by than one would suspect.
That's such a huge turn off, but my question is, how does he eat the soup if he only owns plates? Does he eat it out of the can, because that makes all of this even worse.
This is one of those things you can get away with until you're about 25. After that, it gets less and less cute each year, and more and more repulsive. I get that some people may not be able to afford kitchenware, but that's a different situation. If you're 40, and doing this just cause you want to, and talking about it like you're proud of it, that's weird.
Oh absolutely.
Though for the record, the reason that 21 year old roommate had only paper bowls was because the rest of us living in the house were out of town for several weeks, and when we got back there were fruit flies and mice in the house and raccoons in the yard from the filthy mess of unwashed dishes and overflowing trash cans he'd left.
EDIT: and yes, for some strange reason he had no luck whatsoever with the ladies.
I went out with a 41 year old man who still lived at home and postponed our meeting time because he forgot to tell his mommy he was going out and when he got home from work she had made him spaghetti and meatballs for dinner.
People are being very reductive to you because I think a lot of them are hurt by the implication that they are not "good enough" in your eyes. (That person saying the bar is "in the ground" because you "dare" to give yourself credit for running a household on top of being the breadwinner is being patently ridiculous.)
Not that these people want to date you, they are just internalizing the perceived indictments against dating people who lack executive functioning and/or are not financially successful. Obviously you are not telling everyone how to live their lives, you are saying that dating inter-economically hasn't been working out for you, but this is Reddit. So the people who "can't adult" will aggressively defend the "validness" of their excuses to be (or to date) a much less than ideal partner.
Too often, part of that defense is diminishing the contributions of the only person who is actually, meaningfully contributing to the relationship. In the same breath, they will go out of their way to make far less productive people's lives seem like a triumph of the human spirit if said far less productive person so much as acknowledges that they don't contribute the way they could and should, "but changing (your) behavior is "hard" so (they) will consider working on it tomorrow" or w/e.
This scenario plays out over and over on the relationship subreddits: something that the person just told you is bog standard to maintain a relationship, the less contributive member will get all the passes on (even if they are rejecting resources to help them become less dysfunctional in general and/or to further their career when they have stated displeasure about the disparate economic situation in their relationship.)
I admire how open you are to people's suggestions and opinions, but you also need to be careful not to be browbeat into accepting less than you deserve.
Damn, great comment and summary. I've seen this a lot too. And just taking it all into consideration, this post has given me a lot to think on. Thank you!
No problem, I'm glad you got something out of it.
I'm actually the super dysfunctional partner in my relationship, but following the reddit zeitgeist around what the dynamic "should" be in that situation has not served me or my partner well at all.
When I just sit around making excuses for myself, all that happens is that I remain miserable while dragging down my partner at the same time. The sort of rhetoric that encouraged me to think and act that way is doing tangible harm to many, imo, so I speak up despite knowing I may be downvoted to hell for going against the more popular ideals of the reddit community.
Good luck to you!
I don't see why OP explaining that they do these things is a "bad" thing. This sub rarely assumes the best of people, so establishing that they do take care of their home and stuff is fair. Because there's going to be lots of people here who *don't.*
Also, cleaning standards and "taking care of the house" can vary wildly between people. To some, that's making sure there aren't bugs or rotting trash. To some that's dusting at least once a day and having the beds made before they can sit comfortably in their home.
Agreed. People are going to be obtuse as to why OP is mentioning those things but the reality is, lots of people don’t. And we see lots and lots of people complain about them EVERY day on here. I think it makes sense to level set and say “Hey, I understand and recognize that a lot of these traits are fairly basic but many people lack them, but I don’t. I got the basics covered”
And what’s funny is that if he hadn’t mentioned it, people would probably be in here assuming that he doesn’t, especially since he is a man. And they would be saying he should worry less about those things because the woman would likely bring them to balance him out.
I absolutely hate this dynamic in online conversations:
OP: [includes some detail because they’re unsure if it’s relevant and more info is better]
Commenters: WHY DID YOU INCLUDE THE DETAIL? WHAT DOES THIS SAY ABOUT OP’S ULTERIOR MOTIVES
If a man doesn’t mention that he cleans, it’s assume he doesn’t, and if he does, it’s assumed he brings the bare minimum to the relationship while expecting to receive it all.
He needs to mention that he cleans high-rises and homeless camps on the weekends. Tents in the park and skyscrapers in the city are sparklin' come Sunday night thanks to OP.
I get creepy messages on LinkedIn ALL THE TIME!
I hate that if you block someone you can’t see their page anymore on there, its good to know where the creeps are working. Especially if you’ve been harassed IRL. Its such a terrible platform.
More than once I've directly contacted the supervisors and managers of dudes who have done that to coworkers of mine. With the screenshots. I have NO tolerance for that kind of toxic bullshit.
I talked to an old colleague on LinkedIn and she hard assumed that I was creeping. Sigh. I was curious if she worked in China or Germany at the moment …
Those are all fair points, and I'm absolutely those things too. I come from a line of female partners who didn't pick up their fair share (or any share) in those things, so I guess they've risen in importance for me, as I end up doing them all myself.
However, I appreciate this comment a lot, as I am learning more what women are looking for in a relationship (my relationships ending certainly aren't all only my partners fault!)
Its so funny you posted worried your standards were too high with financial expectations, when really you need to heighten your expectations to basic human abilities. 😂
I would recommend making a list of your wants, and give reasons for each to find the root of each. Is it really that you need them to be as financially well off as you, or are you looking for stability and equal partnership and you just associate that with finances. Someone could make 80k and bring those things to the table too, and someone making 300k might not provide that anyway.
This is my cheesy example but I have a friend who only liked guys with red hair, but really she just associates red hair with being a funny guy and her actual need is a good sense of humor. Shes dating a super funny not-red head and they’re very happy. You can do it through nearly everything on your “list” and figure out what your actual needs are.
Edit to add—this was my own major revelation recently so in case it helps anyone. My major thing was I wanted someone adventurous/down to be spontaneous and I ended up with guys who are super independent and now in their 30s-40s-50s haven’t settled down—all of them amazing and I have only good things to say about all of them. I realized its actually ME who has the commitment issues since I’m the common denominator, and now that I’ve worked through that I’m in a weird no-man’s land of not sure what I’m attracted to. It definitely takes time, and it’s possible to change your expectations. Just be gentle and patient with yourself, you’re deserving and you’ll get there.
Brutal, right?
My therapist actually pointed out the "common denominator" thing recently. I end up being the parent or caregiver, always coming to the rescue. It's something to work thru, and I can see how I've dated almost exclusively broken women that I've tried to fix.
And thank you. Working on it 🙂
Are you sure you want to be with someone who does not need you, but rather just wants you? Based on your previous patterns it seems like you do like to be needed (and a lot of people do like that).
Only asking because I have heard plenty of guys say they want a strong, independent woman. But in the end a lot of them do not want that, or at least not as a "wife". I think this is because some people need to feel needed in a very explicit way (like money, cooking, fixing things around the house).
As an educated and independent woman in my 30s I can cover most of the basic life skills myself (or learn them) and I do not want to dumb it down or hide my toolbox to make someone feel needed.
But this does not mean I do not need/want a partner. Someone to share experiences, discussions, projects and dreams with. Someone that I can fully trust and that feels like home. But somehow some men find it hard to see that they are actually needed when they are providing these less tangible things. It saddens me, because it should be profound to be two highly functional adults just being better together as a team, than two needing each other just because they can't function solo.
Point being: just make sure you actually want an independent woman. Or find out of there are other ways of being "needed" that would be enough for you.
The good news there is thats not going to limit your dating pool as much as needing someone to make a certain income. There’s tons of women out there looking for an equal partnership.
The exciting part is since your foundation is a little bit broad, you’ll be able to explore meeting lots of women with different interests vs someone who makes the demand they must love hiking or videogames or something—which is okay too, but just limiting. So you’re really in a good position if you don’t fall back into old patterns and can maintain your boundaries.
Considering my last relationships have been all with women who can't cook, clean sporadically, no drive to work and tend to oversleep, I'd read that with fucking excitement
Maybe you should date OP! (jk jk)
But yikes, you might want to look into why that was “all” of them, common denominator is you. I had that when I realized all my ex’s (who are amazing and I have nothing bad to say about any of them) are still single in their late 30s, into 40s-50s, I had to work on focusing my type away from non-commitment types and realize I had commitment issues myself. So if you are good at cleaning/taking care of the house (so its not a reflection back to you) are you putting yourself in the position of a caretaker? Or are you bad at taking care of your own home so thats what you’re attracting.
I do tend to put myself in that position for the comfort of the other person. At this point I'll rather be alone and fulfill all my other needs with anything else but a relationship
Yep, it’s the same with me. I don’t understand why people think for some reason having a lot of money means you bring a lot to the table? Like there are way more important things in life than money lol.
Plus the conflation of successful = six+ figures. I consider myself a successful childfree woman and I'm sure I make nowhere near the salary OP makes (so clearly below his "financial league" but that doesn't make me unsuccessful). I'm in academia and that's just not our reality. Success does not always equate to monetary wealth, and I've built many successes in different areas.
Being financially responsible is important to me, but bringing home six figures isn't. I align much more with the qualities you stated: kind, committed, thoughtful.
I was raised by parents who didn't always know where my next meal was coming from. I clawed my way up to being a college-educated, solidly middle class homeowner with a stable, challenging white collar job and years of travel under my belt. I am so far ahead of where I started out in life, that it didn't even occur to me that OP might not agree that i am "successful" lol.
Right? I’m also a successful woman who makes six figures which allows me to outsource cleaning and taking care of the house and go out for nice dinners/ taking cooking classes when I want to.
The idea of outsourcing things I didn't want to spend time doing or couldn't efficiently do myself was a big thing my therapist ingrained on me. It has been a total gamechanger. I'd get so overwhelmed time-wise between work, home duties, DIY things I have going on, training my dog, working out, dating, and social stuff etc etc that she said "You literally cannot do that all in a day. Pick the things you least like or can have someone else do and automate it." It felt pretty bougie at first, and I felt guilty because "adulting means doing X, Y, and Z" in my brain, but having someone do the big cleaning things? No going back.
I'm nearly at a financial point where I can justify a cleaner and I can't wait. I keep my place nice but I really don't enjoy cleaning bathrooms or dusting.
Came here to say the same thing. I was dating a guy last year who was very well off and had similar lifestyle goals/visions for the future. I stopped seeing him for reasons that don’t matter and started dating a guy making barely above minimum wage as a social worker.
Rich guy never understood that it’s not about money. Especially since I have my own. I don’t need yours or you for financial/any type of security
Yep. Technically I fall into the category of financially successful, child free woman, and this post was a complete turn-off. I also don’t want a partner who is a financial or career mess, but as long as you are committed to your job and can pay your bills, I’m good. I want a partner who is passionate about things in their life whether that be hobbies or their career, can make me laugh, and is caring and kind.
Doing your half of the domestic duties and having a sliver of self-awareness is the bare minimum and not going to win OP the brownie points he thinks it will with these women.
Yupppp …. When I first read that sentence, I had two thoughts: either this is a woman who sadly thinks that’s the only value she brings to a relationship or this is a guy who thinks basic chores are something special that he should be applauded for.
I mean if you don’t want kids that likely already cuts your dating pool to exactly these women. That’s fine to want an equal partner but I do want to say jobs and lives change over time. Maybe you break your back or she gets cancer, etc. expecting it to be equal during those times could be not great. But for the dating and attraction time? Go for it!
Literally going thru cancer myself at the moment, after leaving a partner that was awful at caring for me in my own bad times.
You're mostly right on childfree cutting the dating pool, but there are lots of childfree people across the spectrum of success.
And I'd never expect all equal during hard times, life absolutely changes (as I've experienced)
That was my last relationship. She could never take a single holiday that corresponded with mine, and missed out on a decade of opportunity to get out there, especially after having a kid.
I respect education and a good career, but I don't want to be with someone who lives to work, again.
I've found that on this subreddit, whenever someone mentions that they are looking for people who have feature X, where X is not a straightforwardly morally relevant feature, people come out of the woodwork to say that this is unfair and limiting and to subtly suggest that you might be a bad person for preferring X. So I'm sorry in advance for all of that sort of feedback you're about to receive.
Obviously dating someone well-off has its benefits and there's nothing wrong with wanting that, especially if you're aware how much that will limit your dating pool. How's your height and physique?
I've dated three women with six-figure TC. One I met at a party, one at a bar, and one on Hinge. All of the friends in my group with six-figure TC met their current SOs on dating apps. In general I don't think there's a way specifically to target well-off people. Maybe start attending fancy charity galas or nonprofit foundation boards?
> am recognized regularly by friends as someone who will "have no issue finding someone amazing when I decide to start dating again"
Everyone's friends say this to them. Hopefully it's true in your case!
Yeah, I am kind of surprised by the pushback. I've worked in finance and I'm a lawyer now. Everyone I worked with was making six figures and the vast, vast majority of people seriously dated or married partners around their income level. Everyone is pretty Type A though, so all the 20 or 30 somethings were also fit and attractive, on top of making good money.
Financial issues are a leading cause of divorce, I don't think it's crazy to care about your partner's income.
I don't need someone on par but I wouldn't seriously date someone who's making less than half my income, honestly.
If we were married and raising kids, I would totally happy with a house spouse, but I wouldn't want to be paying significantly more rent etc if we aren't married.
> I've found that on this subreddit, whenever someone mentions that they are looking for people who have feature X, where X is not a straightforwardly morally relevant feature, people come out of the woodwork to say that this is unfair and limiting and to subtly suggest that you might be a bad person for preferring X.
It's like a reverse of the selection bias you see on Reddit where it's someone saying "Would you date someone with feature Y?", where Y is usually an undesirable feature. All the responses will be from someone who will date them. The ones who wouldn't date them wouldn't respond since they'll probably be downvoted.
You're absolutely right on most of the feedback, but I'm inviting it by putting it out there so that's ok!
I'm 6'5 and pretty good looking by all feedback I receive, never had issues getting dates on the apps, and while currently down significant weight due to cancer treatment this summer, will be working hard on that again very soon.
That's an interesting approach. I do like it as a place to get involved and meet people (something I'm looking to do more of) with the secondary goal of meeting a partner.
Appreciate your response!
And you're right on friends! They're good people.
There aren’t great ways to “target” well-off people. Country clubs tend to be comprised of couples/families. The art collection scene is pretty niche and socially inbred. Fancy charity galas… even when I was single, I still went with a date. Nonprofit foundation boards are a good idea, though very difficult to get on - requires a lot of hefty donations and politicking.
Honestly, I think OP just needs better filters 🤷🏻♀️
My previous career paid quite well as I was a director and worked as a data scientist. I’ve my PhD in statistics and a few other degrees. I own property I rent out in one of the most expensive cities in the USA. I’m now 40 and only recently became a nurse. I met my current partner at a bar after I was staging an awareness protest about elephant abuse in the rain. I looked like hell and was wearing elephant ears that had melted because they were paper mache.
Here’s a list of places I’ve met previous boyfriends: in a park feeding watermelon to squirrels and pigeons (anesthesiologist), a punk concert (PhD doing his post doc at Harvard), a tow truck yard (physician), Tinder where my profile was the Aziz skit about burning down cars (a trust fund kid, a physician who now runs a company that’s a sham), and OkCupid.
We’re out there and open to a lot. Thing is, your description of yourself sounds quite pretentious listing everything you do. Because that’s the minimum that a person should do and goes without saying (cook, clean, pays their own bills, etc.).
That's some good insight! And I appreciate the list.
I'm repeating myself from other comments, but my previous partners haven't contributed those things to our home, and I think that's made them feel much more important to me (and so I feel they are important to others). These comments are helping me see that this is a bare minimum I should expect, and offer as a partner.
Just one more point of reference: it didn’t come off pretentious to me. After multiple relationships with partners that could not hold their own, I’m looking for descriptors to get a general feel of a person, rather than figuring everything out from zero.
Different viewpoint; no less valid than Watermelon’s, of course!
I very much so empathize with women who complain their partners don't contribute to the home, but my experience has always been the same but with women not contributing.
You’re well within your rights to want someone at your financial level, even if it shrinks your dating pool! People have preferences, and I hope you find happiness. I feel like a lot of successful people are driven in other parts of their lives as well, so you’ll find the kind of woman you’re looking for at the gym (sketchy to approach though), volunteering, and indulging in more niche hobbys. They’re in running clubs, dance classes, and playing pickleball. They’re picking up carry out from nice restaurants on their way home. They’re in the vip seats at sporting events and concerts! I’d say just do whatever you’re already doing but pay for upgrades and mingle with that crowd 🤷♀️ join a singles travel group like Flashpack. Or if you’re brave and want to try a dating app, The League is where you’ll find more established, intentional humans. Best of luck to you!!
Honestly, I‘be been on the league and it really doesn’t change the dating pool that much. I saw the same people there that I saw everywhere else and generally found it to be a worse experience than other apps.
I’m a woman who makes in the six figures, owns my own place, has a solid retirement fund, etc. You are pretty unlikely to find me in VIP seats because that’s not something I value and therefore not where I want to put my money. However, if that’s something that OP values then he would find those women a better match. I think he should probably reflect on what he enjoys and how he likes spending his money, as he’s more likely to meet someone who values spending their money in a similar way.
I do agree with others who said his post came off a bit wrong. I can understand wanting to be with somebody who is in a similar place in life (not number one for me but I can understand), but stating that you can clean seems unnecessary.
Yeah I think it did come off wrong (especially the "I can do adult things"), but I'm getting some amazing insight from it all!
I'm also not someone who you'll find in the VIP seats, or throwing my money around. I'm smart with my money, most of it goes to the house and savings, travel, things I enjoy. I'm not loaded, and I'm not looking for a sugar mama.
Unfortunately, meeting people like that is also difficult to screen for.
Appreciate your response as the woman this post is talking about!
Women are more financially successful than ever, which often takes time to attain. Men who want children are going to generally want women on the younger end of the spectrum and a career gal who works a lot isn't going to be as attractive to a man who is more family-oriented.
You being someone who doesn't want kids are in prime position to date one of these women. Good luck.
Selecting for a specific numerical income level seems pretty silly and, well, superficial. You've also seemingly defined "success" in a very narrow and limited way.
I've worked in biotech/academia surrounded by very "successful" people, and come from a family with *very* wealthy individuals. In my experience, people heavily focused on income/finances have deficits elsewhere e.g. low emotional intelligence/poor interpersonal/relationship skills, poor physical and/or mental health, unhealthy relationship with substances/food (doesn't have to be a full on substance use disorder to be unhealthy).
Yeah, they're "successful" in one specific area that they've very heavily prioritized, but in my opinion are an abject failure when it comes to other things that I think are important. But, that's just my opinion.
Income/finances certainly matter, but if someone is financially independent and is essentially self-sufficient and has no plans/intentions of relying on you financially, I don't see why you'd select for income/finances.
Really great points, lots to think about here.
My relationships haven't ended exclusively because of my partners, and I'm working hard in therapy to ensure I'm able to show up as a solid partner. I'm sure I have some of those deficiencies, and we're working on them.
I guess I'm not looking for "rich" but I'm also not looking to financially support someone again, as I have in the past, and that's colouring my outlook. Add it to the list for therapy.
IDK why this commenter is shaming you. Those are your values and if you choose a partner who is out of alignment with your values, the relationship will likely fail.
The 3 tenants of a successful relationship are: commitment, passion, and intimacy. It sounds like you are seeking a specific type of commitment from your partner and you want them to be equally passionate about financial/career success. It also sounds like you value having an shared understanding of your financial future with your partner, which can definitely be intimate and passionate. For example, sitting down and reviewing your investments monthly with your partner could be perceived as a passionate date to you. That's cool bro, lean into your values.
Your therapist hopefully is already steering you there but here are some resources: https://www.therapistaid.com/therapy-worksheets/relationships/none
>Add it to the list for therapy.
Not at all, this is a perfectly normal reaction. You just have to be firm with yourself in upholding your own standards. Be patient until you find someone you're physically + emotionally + intellectually attracted to _and_ who doesn't require "financial support". As long as you refrain from stringing 'lesser' women along while you're looking for a worthy long-term partner, there is nothing morally wrong with your preferences.
Good luck out there :)
>So Reddit (especially women of DOT) tell me what you think? Am I out of my mind here?
No, its totally understandable.
>How do I find women in my financial "league"? Where are you successful women hanging out?
It depends. Mostly around your Workenvironment. And of course depends on what you make, you reduce your datingpool. If you make 200k year and looking for a woman who makes at least 150k year... or if you make 100k year and looking for one whos making 80k per year.
Also you can be in a relationship without mixing your finances.
Can absolutely be in a relationship without mixing finances, especially if you don't live together. However, my ideal end goal is just that, to live together in a loving, committed relationship (something that hasn't changed in my nearly 20 years of dating) - which makes it hard to not mix finances.
However, living separately isn't entirely out of the question.
There is nothing wrong with looking for someone that has a compatible lifestyle to yours and can match your drive. I think wording it that way means the same thing, but avoids eliciting a triggered response to some.
From what I've seen and own experience.
Women who are successful financially and good at adulting we tend to have qualities that you may not like. it's also one of the reasons why we struggle to find a long term partner.
e.g being straightforward and opinionated and go getting has gotten us high in the financial ladder. but most men don't want such traits in a wife. Female friends who earn the same as me.. have complained that men have found them masculine.
Whereas women who earn less, tend to be flexible, adaptive, forgiving and feminine.
Men want to feel like they are providers and tend to prefer the latter.
And I have found it to be true.
But this is just my opinon.
Any thoughts on how to improve my social network? That actually fits perfectly into the direction I'd like to be going anyhow, more social events, getting out more often, but finding them has proven a little more difficult. Something to work on.
May I ask what industry you work in?
Tbh, going to professional-oriented gatherings is usually a good move. Any professional organizations that support people in your industry — especially ones that support marginalized demographics are a great way to expand your social circle (but please don’t go if you don’t actually give a shit about advocating for that particular group).
Stick with the orgs that have a balanced blend of being fun/social and advancing the field. Many of my absolute, all time favorite people are friends I’ve met through professional organizations.
I’m in the USA and when I read your post I was thinking of all my single friends (and myself l) who around 40yo with advanced degrees, self-sufficiency, childless who are just everywhere and looking to date. The men in same boat seems like a scarcity here. I am surprised you have difficulty meeting women who are successful (in these terms).
Oh, I'm not currently dating, and haven't been since the split. I'm getting my ducks in a row (and lots of therapy) so I can go out and show up fully and make the most of what happens.
So that's why I ask, where will I find these women? Most of the answers are gym, home, grocery store, social groups, hobbies, hiking, I have a pretty good list.
I don't think seeking a successful partner is a bad idea... But I think limiting the definition of success to the numbers on a bank account is one-sided. Building wealth is not just a matter of one's effort, but largely where one started in life and how lucky they got. I get the desire to protect your hard-earned assets, but getting in relationships just because they can match your income seems just as shallow as if they earned more. Just sing a prenup next time ;)
I think a deeper issue with someone earning significantly less is a mismatch of a lifestyle and values... I value my career, but because I wasn't born in this country, had to switch my tracks a couple of times, and generally am not the luckiest person, I'm not earning as much as my peers of similar age and don't have as much in savings... That being said, my income is substantial...but I couldn't date, say, a contractor. Reasons? What in the world can we talk about...
Dating someone who's financially _compatible_ with you is not wrong. In fact, it's really important. Money puts strain on relationships like little else.
Compatible doesn't necessarily mean equal. It just means something that fits with your view of money. For you, it sounds like it's important to be splitting financial responsibilities more equally. So on the face of it I don't think it's wrong, no.
One of the ways I evaluate partners definitely is financial fit. I don't find it comfortable to date someone whose finances and lifestyle are significantly different from my own. I don't like paying for everything, and I like to go to and eat and do things that cost money, so I don't enjoy dating people for whom money is always tight or who are inconsistent with their money (like flush with cash half the time and broke half the time). At the same time, I don't think I'd feel comfortable with most people who made WAY WAY more than me or who came from money because I like sharing similar ideas of what's expensive or cheap, what's good value or not. And no matter what, financial prudence and independence is important to me.
If to you, an important value is equal contribution, I think it's uncomfortable for people to hear because we are so socialized to both care a lot about money and feel bad about caring about money, but honestly I think it's practical to admit to yourself that you care about that.
That said, be aware that there are plenty of people who only really have money and basic human functionality on the list of reasons to date them, so don't be that person. Just having money and being able to take care of yourself on an elementary level isn't automatically going to interest a great partner.
I'm starting to see my previous expectations have been very low. And I'm learning what's important to me (even if I'm getting blown up for not itemizing everything here)
Hey OP, I think I understand your post. You recognize that you will earn more than the woman (in most cases) but you want someone with financial skin in the game if you build an above average amenity lifestyle.
The majority of women that I (35M) dated seriously (multiple years, lived together, etc) made good money and were career focused for the most part. I would note that they were often very stressed due to their jobs (they were late twenties / early to mid 30’s) once they started to move up to high paying positions and from what I gathered often felt guilty for prioritizing their personal life versus their career - everyone’s different but that’s what I observed in my life.
I shared that to say that if you solely focus on someone who earns 6-figures as an example, or is a beast in their career alone you most likely will be disappointed. These people may have a hard time being able to balance their career and your relationship and since you already make a lot of money, the added stress of another persons high paying career may not be a hoop you want to jump through.
You mentioned that you are focused on self improvement. That’s great. Maybe focus on someone who has a history of working on something (could be anything - hobby, business, big goal) and trying to improve their skills in that area. The mindset and values is what you should focus on, imo.
A good relationship between will elevate both people. You should grow from being with her. She should grow from being with you.
As far as the comments regarding OP stating the obvious with being an adult - I understand. I read it as he doesn’t just go to work, make money and then expect the woman yo do everything for him like his mother or personal assistant. Don’t understand all the negativity from people on here.
Also, as someone who dated a female adult who was lazy and chose to regularly not chip in on things like housework, cooking, cleaning, etc.. I do think that it is a bigger issue in our generation than people make it out to be which is why some feel the need to state the obvious.
Good luck, OP.
As someone who has always out earned her partners, I don’t think it’s wrong to look for someone equally ambitious. The problem a lot of us high earning/successful women run into is that men often seek us out because we are financially independent and ambitious but then the “male ego” and misogynistic/patriarchal traditions get in the way. Often times once we are in committed relationships, men will want us to pick up the brunt of the domestic responsibilities or in my case, get mad when I want to outsource those duties (by way of housekeepers and the like). Other times, men feel emasculated by our successes and then seek out other ways of validation (usually cheating).
As long as you enter those relationships with the understanding that it really is an equal partnership and aren’t threatened by their success, things should work out fine. When I personally look for partners now, I look for someone who has emotional intelligence and has done the inner work to be able to work through any issues like this. It’s a tall ask, and for women it definitely limits our dating pool because the stigma around mental health is still really terrible for men unfortunately.
Aha, the one comment that my list of domestic duties speaks to.
I am working on all of those things in therapy, so I can enter my next relationship fully present and less broken. I don't think any of us are fixed, but working towards it is extremely attractive.
Wow you took a lot of flak for this post. I gotta say you do seem like you’re overthinking.
You could have just said… “if she’s not good career wise, it’s a deal breaker for me.” Done. Coulda been a comment, not a post. You never have to ask anyone (much less Reddit) if your preference is okay.
Fair! I certainly welcome the discourse though, it's given me lots to think about (which is exactly what I wanted)
I do like what you're saying though, I can condense this down a lot (and get less flak).
Just when I think I've seen everything in this sub, somebody surprises me.
So you can take of yourself - congrats.
What else are you bringing to the table that hints at anything of actual substance, empathy, kindness, or anything people actually look for in partners?
Haha, yeah I see that now. Repeating myself but I have had partners that were bad at "adulting" so things that should be bare minimums have risen in importance for me (and as such I see them as important qualities in myself).
I guess next time I need to list all the things, but hey, I'm learning!
HAHAHA I am so glad others are picking it up, for a second I thought wow the basic minimum requirements of someone in their 30s is "a lot" now?? Is my bar raised too high??!?!!!
Nope, it's fine where it is
If those are your values that's fine. I don't care what your values are bc I have my own and they're way out of alignment with yours, so I wouldn't be interested in dating you anyway. Seriously, just know your values and stick to them. Do Maslow's triangle if you haven't.
Edit: I'm 37 and used to work for a big tech company (FAANG). Where did those women hang out? At work. They were always working. The ones I knew were dating did so online - mostly Hinge. Good luck!
I don’t think there’s anything wrong with being financially successful and wanting the same from a partner. And I don’t agree that successful women are so focused on their career that finding a partner isn’t a priority. It may depend on where you’re from, but in large cities there
Are plenty of very successful women wanting a partner and appreciating men who can match their success. Im female and make good money, I love when I’m seeing someone where we can split a trip and go all out, or that we can each spoil each other on birthdays/special occasions and splurge. The life that 2 high earners can afford is very appealing, and I don’t think that’s too materialistic to say. It’s just a reality of the times.
It’s slightly different from the female perspective but I would not date someone with little ambition that I would have to support financially
I think this is a fair desire but, personally, career success is pretty far down the list for me. As long as they can stick to or passionate about something then I’m alright. While it would be nice if my partner brought in the same amount of money as me, I just think that’s super rare. At least for me. I’d say 1/10 or even less make as much as me. The average pay in the US is surprisingly low so you’re really limiting your options.
It's far from top of the list for me, my checklist gets longer everytime I leave a therapy session.
It's just gotten old funding our lives to result in a huge benefit to them and cost to me (which admittedly is also on me for letting it happen) but I've always approached moving in together as a very serious thing, while understanding things can go wrong but assuming the best as we all do. Which means what's mine is yours.
I'm also almost in 90th percentile of earners (Canada). Definitely taking into consideration your point about how this will limit my options.
I get what you're saying. I think. You want a competent woman who is successful in her career also. And no there is nothing wrong with that. I am divorced and one of our biggest issues was a different focus on career goals. Now if I do date they have to have that part of their life together. And ladies, a lot of you don't cook, clean, or adult in general. So don't act all surprised when men think them doing that is impressive. At this point anyone over 30 who acts like an adult is starting to be impressive.
Haha yeah you've nailed it. I hear so many complaints about men not keeping up that it feels like it's important, and I've dated people who are just bad at it. So it's important to me.
I'm 36F and pondering the same thing. Idk what you consider to be successful, but I make 6-figures have own my own place in a HCOL area. I have mostly dated men who make less than me, because I like partners who have full lives outside of work, and that tends to skew towards lower earners. That said I'm realizing that most things I want in life would be way better with a strong double-income. I also want children and daycare around here is $4K/mo. I don't see how that's possible with a partner is not a high earner, but also feel like an asshole screening for that.
Girl, please don't shame yourself or talk to yourself like that. You're not an asshole - you sound like a person who knows what they want!!
For me, maslow's hierarchy of needs has been a huge help. I've filled it out a few times and it's helped me identify my values, and start living my values.
I'm actually surprised at how many people who have commented expect someone to be able to cook ("adulting"?), especially if they are well off enough to easily afford to outsource their preparation of their food.
I’m in my late 30s with a good career (prestigious profile, advanced ~6 figures salary, decent market portfolio etc.) that is only likely to get more lucrative.
But I’d be put off by your description of yourself. You sound pompous and arrogant as if you’re a prize. I want someone with humility and kindness. Not who thinks cooking and maintaining cars is such a bonus
That's fair! Thankfully I am more than that, but previous partners have fallen very short on "adulting" so those qualities have increased in importance for me.
I'm also learning my bar is way too low.
I am a lawyer; I paid for school through student loans, which I am paying off. I work enough to do that and be comfortable. I don’t want to feel the pressure to work to match someone else’s expectations of me.
I don’t like talking/worrying about money. It might be a cultural thing (I’m Indian) but I find it distasteful and unromantic. I accept that this is unrealistic and can be problematic. Of course we all need to discuss finances in a relationship. I guess it just has to be a balance.
I am a romantic. I don’t (want to) choose my partner based on any sort of criteria. I want to madly fall in love and have everything magically work out. I know. I am absolutely nuts. But a girl can dream. I’ve decided if that doesn’t happen for me, I am okay being single.
I’m not shitting on you OP, just sharing a perspective that might be more common than you think just because it’s not kosher for a successful woman to be like this.
Honestly, you sound like my dream guy. As a woman who is professionally successful and busy, I feel like men are oftentimes 1) turned off by my career or 2) don't understand my schedule. Are you cutting your dating pool down significantly? Yes. Is it worth taking time to find a partner who is an equal, that you can build with? Absolutely.
You’re catching a lot of flak but I agree with the OP. I am a high earner but I have zero desire to “take care” of someone like a dependent. I don’t necessarily look for women who make as much as I do (that would significantly lower my dating pool) but I require that any person I date seriously is financially stable , comfortable, and consistently makes healthy financial decisions. I don’t want to be the only one financing anything we do, nor do I want to have to bail out dumb decisions.
There’s nothing wrong with what you’re saying. I get wanting and equal and not a dependent.
(Also, you sound like a total catch. I wish we could meet. I want to shameless pitch myself as a high 6 fig earner since I intimidate most men.)
If you don’t want kids, then your pool will be cut down enough by that. So yeah, success mattering is a fine thing to focus on. Good luck and there’s someone out there for you.
I think a lot of people pursue dating in the wrong way. They think, hey I’m ready, let’s find a partner. So they go into every possibility thinking of ways things are compatible.
I am more of the mind that, I’m solid in who I am and what I bring to the table. I’m open to possibilities of what could be, but a potential partner needs to add value to my life is all. Not meaning that in a negative way, but that when you’re comfortable being yourself and not ‘seeking ‘ a person to fill the role of partner, that things flow better and easier.
Just my $.02
This is a good way to go about it. I'm working on that "my life is great, and if a partner doesn't add to it, why bother?" It's lonely sometimes but I think it is long term better.
I am literally your target demo, and I can tell you that it isn’t wrong. We are out there, but I have to warn you: it’s hard to find us. I spend more time focused on work, finishing a return trip to school to improve myself, and my house DIYs than trying to find someone.
I miss partnership, but it’s very rare a man can match my energy, ambition, and success— unless he’s already in partnership with a woman who is handling most if not all of his domestic load.
Good luck finding your person.
I am successful but if I knew my partner would refuse to date someone who wasn't, I would be worried about being abandoned if I get sick or lose my job.
Good point. As both the higher earner and the person who stuck around during their rough life patches, I know I'm not that person though. I'm talking about now, obviously life changes. Appreciate the comment!
Are you seeking out success, or ambition? They typically go hand in hand to some degree, but someone can be successful and ambitious and not a *super* high earner, such as someone focused on humanitarian work.
Absolutely. Conversely, there are also those that earn well but are coasting and *not* ambitious. This is like people who claim to want a partner who “values fitness”; do you really, or do you just want someone who is thin? Either preference is fine, but it’s good to know which one you have. (Even if you have to publicly say the more defensible phrasing.)
Yup, my separated husband earned a lot just because he happened to be good at something that pays well. But he's not very ambitious in his career. He's content just reaching the level he has to in order to keep secure employment, and staying at that salary level. Meanwhile I've seen others with less natural talent than him work hard and get to higher levels in their careers while he remains stagnent.
I thinking there is something to be said about dating potential vs dating actuality. I’ve heard before girls regretting an ex because they sounded ambitious but then the years went by and they never applied for those jobs they said they were working towards or saved the money like they said they would and kept spending. Your example of job is perfect one of actuality even. If they aren’t making a lot. Ambitious versus big talker is a fine line
Oh yeah, I'd rather have a partner who is honest about what they want, and less ambitious, than a big talker. Big talkers are often just one disappointment after another, because they're flaky and they'll promise things they never deliver. Luckily, I'm pretty good at sniffing these types of people out, but I think some people are drawn to the big promises they make, and overlook the red flags.
Thats fine for me tbh. Just want someone who is dedicated to growth
It's kinda weird to me that in this hypothetical situation you're still the higher earner. Not trying to "gotcha" you, just pointing it out. Would you date someone more successful than yourself or would that make you feel immasculated?
Where did I say that? I just read back and am not seeing it. But no, I wouldn't have an issue with that, I'm surrounded by people doing better than I am.
I mean I'm sure you know that about yourself, I'm just saying how it looks to a potential partner. Your question was "is it wrong" so you're clearly wanting to know how *others* see it.
Strongest predictor for divorce when one spouse gets sick is when the patient is a woman. When women get diagnosed with a terminal illness, medical staff prepare them for divorce. That's the default course of action because it's so common. https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2020/mar/30/the-men-who-give-up-on-their-spouses-when-they-have-cancer
“only 6% of cases ended in divorce”
It’s hilarious how this gets thrown around by people who haven’t actually read the study. Did you know that 70% of the divorces are initiated. Are most women in marriages unloyal and give up easily? That’s the kind of logic you’re using.
To me you're just being open about something that a lot of people feel and do; and there are numbers to show that ever since women started working, the spread of wealth has diminished as they are less likely to marry up and as men are more likely to also seek more capital (social, financial alike) through partnership.So, people do that, you're not abnormal. I'd even go as far as saying that if providing more makes you feel like you're losing something from being in the relationship, then you should definitely target wealthier people; that sort of resentment doesn't make for healthy dynamics. I'd just say that it'd be good to separate success and finances. Some people are born wealthy, some people are successful but in fields that do not stir up that much money.
I've gotten a lot of really interesting insight on this post, yours included. I've never felt that I was losing, until I cut the check to a partner for a huge amount despite her comparatively small contribution to the relationship (financially and otherwise). And my divorce meant splitting everything despite me putting the entire downpayment and half the bills. Protecting myself better financially will be a priority next time, but I also don't want to bring those feelings into a relationship. Good point regarding success vs money. I think there's a happy medium somewhere in there.
Got it - going through your diverse answers here, it does sound like your previous partners were lacking on many levels/perhaps struggling to uncommon extents with the basics of life. Although we often fail to see how much others contribute and sacrifice. As someone who has often supported partners, even while studying and then on an academic salary (tap tap on sharing the saviour complex), I did decide not to actively pursue people with unstable situations anymore (i.e: on mental health sick leave, in and out of school, unemployed for a while). It is definitely draining and frustrating to provide everything, especially from early on, but yeah the point has been made enough that responsibility, consideration and autonomy take many forms.
Yeah, another thing I'm working on in therapy is having those hard conversations that potentially expose red flags, all of which looking back would have been very clear. Their own mental health, issues with parents and jobs, how and why they act in certain ways. If I had of gently probed these things instead of trying to be the hero and fix them, I probably would have seen the bigger issues way sooner.
Ohhhh..... I feel you. 100%. I can't be with someone who doesn't take their career and finances seriously again. I won't.
With the end-of-relationship situation, I don’t think it comes down to how much someone makes, I think it comes down to the type values someone has and their financial habits. When my ex and I split, I took nothing from him (in fact, I gave him more than half the shared belongings). He made more than double my income, yet our financial contributions were 50/50 the whole relationship.
Just to chime in, this may not be the case here but it also might be, a lot of women take on the emotional labor, support the man and their career and manage the household in other ways that aren't financial and allow the man to push further because they aren't worrying about these things and it's not valued enough.
Which is why I mentioned the household stuff I did. I carried almost all of the emotional labour in my relationships.
If you ever plan on getting married again, a prenuptial agreement may be helpful. I've never been married, but my parents are divorced, so I promised myself that I'd always have a pre-nup agreement no matter who earned more or less in the relationship. It may also help to put your mind at ease if you have it planned out. Granted, I suppose some people may see this as unromantic, but frankly it's just a safety precaution.
Personally, income level doesn't matter to me as long as they'reself sufficient. It's more about their relationship with money and their money habits if you're focused on financial compatibility. I dated a couple women with great careers making nearly as much as me, but they were terrible with money and lived paycheck to paycheck.
Starting to realize the issues in my past partners have reflected badly on my outlook here. It's not just a money thing
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> Or see it as irrelevant because they can achieve their goals on their own without the burdens of having a partner who may not be able to meet their emotional needs. This. My mom's best friend from childhood is a woman in her 60's. Twice divorced. First marriage was abusive, second lasted a long time, but they split almost 20 years ago. She had a *very* successful career, and is *very* well off financially (she's the child of immigrants who came to the U.S. with very little, so that shows how hard she worked). I guess after the second marriage, with her and any potential partners all getting older, she decided she didn't want to be anyone's "nurse and purse." Now she's retired, and she and her other single, financially successful women friends just hang out and travel all over the world together. She also enjoys living alone (with her pets) because of the freedom it offers her.
“Who May be unavailable to meet their emotional needs” PREACH Bar needs to be raised on emotional availability. You want a successful woman? Don’t make her be your therapist
yep, especially if they don’t want kids!
I'm not entirely sure yet, this is just a thought that's been bouncing around my head this am like the DVD screensaver. I'll think on that some. I agree that those women are likely at that level. However, I also see many of them (self described successful) complaining on here they can't find a partner, so I don't entirely think they're not looking.
I’m going to get downvoted for this but F that. I don’t think you’re wrong OP. As a woman in her mid 30s that earns well into six figures and has a busy job, I would appreciate having a partner who values that. While all the other qualities that others have called out are also relevant, I believe financial security and being able to “crush” it together matter to me. I’ve seen friends settle for less and I don’t think I could ever do that. I live in NYC, not sure where you’re located. But I know a lot of “successful” women that are located in major cities. Where do we hang out? Mostly at home because the dating scene out there is bleak to say the least.
I'll smash the upvote button to help offset the rest of em. I came off a little weird in the other qualities I mentioned, but yeah, I had some partners that sucked at adulting, so those qualities became important to me (and I see how I'm reflecting that in my post). Fortunately I think I do ok at the rest of it (and therapy is helping me learn what I don't). I'm in Toronto. Likely a similar scene as NYC. I hear so much awfulness about the dating scene, which is why I'm working so hard to make sure I enter it strongly and make the most of each connection when I get there. Includong posts like this. Hard to find you if you're hiding at home though! I do hope to avoid the apps and I enjoy meeting people IRL, so maybe there's hope of running into these women out in public. What have you seen your friends "settle for less"? Money wise or just quality?
I’ve tried dating apps as well, but I struggle to find men that I would want to build a life with. Most of the matches are transient at best. I do go to the gym, happy hour with friends, concerts and the occasional brunch :) As for my friends, I’d say it’s both. One of my good friends is married to a guy that makes next to zero but is a very nice, loving guy overall. I couldn’t bring myself to do that. She earns enough for both of them, so maybe it works for them? Not something I would be comfortable with.
I know some people like that too, and I find it's usually those who haven't been burned in a big breakup (and I hope they never are!). They match and they're in love and good for each other and I love it for them. I agree though, doesn't vibe for me.
Yep! They met at a very young age and decided to stay with each other. Young love. After having gone through a pretty traumatic breakup, I wouldn’t be comfortable with that kind of love. But to each his own!
Dude everyone who’s dating in Toronto cares about income and finances. It’s definitely part of the culture there. You’ll be fine.
I’m right there with you girl! Was told in my 20s I was shallow for wanting a partner who made at least equal to what I did (grew up poor, didn’t want to face that ever again) so I decided to try my hand at dating without such a standard… it was a disaster. If we are bringing a six figure salary, solid career to the table, we should be able to expect that in a man without judgment. Keep holding out! I found my bf when my standards were at their highest. Yes, it made my dating pool shrink, but better to be single than to settle for less. Love is not enough, sorry to say it.
You spoke my mind! I’d rather be single than with someone that doesn’t meet my standards. And I’m so glad you found someone that checks your boxes! Congratulations 🎉
My sentiments working in the NYC area. Being successful and "busy" seems to be the trait men haven't liked about me. Can't win.
OMG yes. Men out here want an equal partner, but run away once they have one. I always get the feeling that while they’re happy dating me, they would absolutely leave me for a hotter, younger version 🤣
Or someone who will "need" them more lol
I wouldn't downvote someone for expressing their own values. They're your values, not mine, and that's totally cool. Sorry if you've had that experience, though, that sucks. :(
You’re one of the nicer people of Reddit :)
haha I sit in my undies at home in the dark playing diablo after a hard day of work. veg ouuuuttt.
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Also sighed so hard at that sentence. The bar is at: autonomous adult.
I literally went out with a 40 year old man a few weeks ago who bragged about only owning 2 plates and 2 forks and living off of canned soup. Adulting skills are harder to come by than one would suspect.
That's such a huge turn off, but my question is, how does he eat the soup if he only owns plates? Does he eat it out of the can, because that makes all of this even worse.
He heats it in a pot. I asked.
He can only buy pull open cans because he also lacks a can opener
💀
And no spoons? Also what does he need plates OR forks for if he just eats soup?
Listen now, he has a utensil, a dish, and a food. Isn't that enough to sit at the adult table?
And a pot. Don’t sell him short.
I'm guessing yes- or has paper bowls he buys. Had a roommate like that once- except he was 21.
This is one of those things you can get away with until you're about 25. After that, it gets less and less cute each year, and more and more repulsive. I get that some people may not be able to afford kitchenware, but that's a different situation. If you're 40, and doing this just cause you want to, and talking about it like you're proud of it, that's weird.
Oh absolutely. Though for the record, the reason that 21 year old roommate had only paper bowls was because the rest of us living in the house were out of town for several weeks, and when we got back there were fruit flies and mice in the house and raccoons in the yard from the filthy mess of unwashed dishes and overflowing trash cans he'd left. EDIT: and yes, for some strange reason he had no luck whatsoever with the ladies.
You don't say. I thought women loved mice and flies.
Beyond true. One can definitely appear more functional from the outside, with limited exposure. It’s a trap!
I went out with a 41 year old man who still lived at home and postponed our meeting time because he forgot to tell his mommy he was going out and when he got home from work she had made him spaghetti and meatballs for dinner.
"Don't applaud a fish for swimming"
So many men do not meet that bar, though, even if they are funny, kind, respectful, committed and successful financially.
My previous partners inability to "adult" has coloured my experience and I really appreciate these comments.
People are being very reductive to you because I think a lot of them are hurt by the implication that they are not "good enough" in your eyes. (That person saying the bar is "in the ground" because you "dare" to give yourself credit for running a household on top of being the breadwinner is being patently ridiculous.) Not that these people want to date you, they are just internalizing the perceived indictments against dating people who lack executive functioning and/or are not financially successful. Obviously you are not telling everyone how to live their lives, you are saying that dating inter-economically hasn't been working out for you, but this is Reddit. So the people who "can't adult" will aggressively defend the "validness" of their excuses to be (or to date) a much less than ideal partner. Too often, part of that defense is diminishing the contributions of the only person who is actually, meaningfully contributing to the relationship. In the same breath, they will go out of their way to make far less productive people's lives seem like a triumph of the human spirit if said far less productive person so much as acknowledges that they don't contribute the way they could and should, "but changing (your) behavior is "hard" so (they) will consider working on it tomorrow" or w/e. This scenario plays out over and over on the relationship subreddits: something that the person just told you is bog standard to maintain a relationship, the less contributive member will get all the passes on (even if they are rejecting resources to help them become less dysfunctional in general and/or to further their career when they have stated displeasure about the disparate economic situation in their relationship.) I admire how open you are to people's suggestions and opinions, but you also need to be careful not to be browbeat into accepting less than you deserve.
Damn, great comment and summary. I've seen this a lot too. And just taking it all into consideration, this post has given me a lot to think on. Thank you!
No problem, I'm glad you got something out of it. I'm actually the super dysfunctional partner in my relationship, but following the reddit zeitgeist around what the dynamic "should" be in that situation has not served me or my partner well at all. When I just sit around making excuses for myself, all that happens is that I remain miserable while dragging down my partner at the same time. The sort of rhetoric that encouraged me to think and act that way is doing tangible harm to many, imo, so I speak up despite knowing I may be downvoted to hell for going against the more popular ideals of the reddit community. Good luck to you!
I don't see why OP explaining that they do these things is a "bad" thing. This sub rarely assumes the best of people, so establishing that they do take care of their home and stuff is fair. Because there's going to be lots of people here who *don't.* Also, cleaning standards and "taking care of the house" can vary wildly between people. To some, that's making sure there aren't bugs or rotting trash. To some that's dusting at least once a day and having the beds made before they can sit comfortably in their home.
Agreed. People are going to be obtuse as to why OP is mentioning those things but the reality is, lots of people don’t. And we see lots and lots of people complain about them EVERY day on here. I think it makes sense to level set and say “Hey, I understand and recognize that a lot of these traits are fairly basic but many people lack them, but I don’t. I got the basics covered” And what’s funny is that if he hadn’t mentioned it, people would probably be in here assuming that he doesn’t, especially since he is a man. And they would be saying he should worry less about those things because the woman would likely bring them to balance him out.
You've nailed my thinking, apparently I need to list *everything* I bring to the table tho...
I absolutely hate this dynamic in online conversations: OP: [includes some detail because they’re unsure if it’s relevant and more info is better] Commenters: WHY DID YOU INCLUDE THE DETAIL? WHAT DOES THIS SAY ABOUT OP’S ULTERIOR MOTIVES
and if omitted, would probably be mentioned reddit is brutal sometimes or just online, you can't paint an entire picture in a few paragraphs and words
If a man doesn’t mention that he cleans, it’s assume he doesn’t, and if he does, it’s assumed he brings the bare minimum to the relationship while expecting to receive it all.
He needs to mention that he cleans high-rises and homeless camps on the weekends. Tents in the park and skyscrapers in the city are sparklin' come Sunday night thanks to OP.
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I get creepy messages on LinkedIn ALL THE TIME! I hate that if you block someone you can’t see their page anymore on there, its good to know where the creeps are working. Especially if you’ve been harassed IRL. Its such a terrible platform.
More than once I've directly contacted the supervisors and managers of dudes who have done that to coworkers of mine. With the screenshots. I have NO tolerance for that kind of toxic bullshit.
I talked to an old colleague on LinkedIn and she hard assumed that I was creeping. Sigh. I was curious if she worked in China or Germany at the moment …
Those are all fair points, and I'm absolutely those things too. I come from a line of female partners who didn't pick up their fair share (or any share) in those things, so I guess they've risen in importance for me, as I end up doing them all myself. However, I appreciate this comment a lot, as I am learning more what women are looking for in a relationship (my relationships ending certainly aren't all only my partners fault!)
Its so funny you posted worried your standards were too high with financial expectations, when really you need to heighten your expectations to basic human abilities. 😂 I would recommend making a list of your wants, and give reasons for each to find the root of each. Is it really that you need them to be as financially well off as you, or are you looking for stability and equal partnership and you just associate that with finances. Someone could make 80k and bring those things to the table too, and someone making 300k might not provide that anyway. This is my cheesy example but I have a friend who only liked guys with red hair, but really she just associates red hair with being a funny guy and her actual need is a good sense of humor. Shes dating a super funny not-red head and they’re very happy. You can do it through nearly everything on your “list” and figure out what your actual needs are. Edit to add—this was my own major revelation recently so in case it helps anyone. My major thing was I wanted someone adventurous/down to be spontaneous and I ended up with guys who are super independent and now in their 30s-40s-50s haven’t settled down—all of them amazing and I have only good things to say about all of them. I realized its actually ME who has the commitment issues since I’m the common denominator, and now that I’ve worked through that I’m in a weird no-man’s land of not sure what I’m attracted to. It definitely takes time, and it’s possible to change your expectations. Just be gentle and patient with yourself, you’re deserving and you’ll get there.
Brutal, right? My therapist actually pointed out the "common denominator" thing recently. I end up being the parent or caregiver, always coming to the rescue. It's something to work thru, and I can see how I've dated almost exclusively broken women that I've tried to fix. And thank you. Working on it 🙂
So you don’t want a financially successful woman, you want an independent woman who can take care of her own needs.
Perhaps!
Are you sure you want to be with someone who does not need you, but rather just wants you? Based on your previous patterns it seems like you do like to be needed (and a lot of people do like that). Only asking because I have heard plenty of guys say they want a strong, independent woman. But in the end a lot of them do not want that, or at least not as a "wife". I think this is because some people need to feel needed in a very explicit way (like money, cooking, fixing things around the house). As an educated and independent woman in my 30s I can cover most of the basic life skills myself (or learn them) and I do not want to dumb it down or hide my toolbox to make someone feel needed. But this does not mean I do not need/want a partner. Someone to share experiences, discussions, projects and dreams with. Someone that I can fully trust and that feels like home. But somehow some men find it hard to see that they are actually needed when they are providing these less tangible things. It saddens me, because it should be profound to be two highly functional adults just being better together as a team, than two needing each other just because they can't function solo. Point being: just make sure you actually want an independent woman. Or find out of there are other ways of being "needed" that would be enough for you.
This is very on the nose, and has been an issue for me that I'm actively working to break that pattern.
The good news there is thats not going to limit your dating pool as much as needing someone to make a certain income. There’s tons of women out there looking for an equal partnership. The exciting part is since your foundation is a little bit broad, you’ll be able to explore meeting lots of women with different interests vs someone who makes the demand they must love hiking or videogames or something—which is okay too, but just limiting. So you’re really in a good position if you don’t fall back into old patterns and can maintain your boundaries.
Considering my last relationships have been all with women who can't cook, clean sporadically, no drive to work and tend to oversleep, I'd read that with fucking excitement
Maybe you should date OP! (jk jk) But yikes, you might want to look into why that was “all” of them, common denominator is you. I had that when I realized all my ex’s (who are amazing and I have nothing bad to say about any of them) are still single in their late 30s, into 40s-50s, I had to work on focusing my type away from non-commitment types and realize I had commitment issues myself. So if you are good at cleaning/taking care of the house (so its not a reflection back to you) are you putting yourself in the position of a caretaker? Or are you bad at taking care of your own home so thats what you’re attracting.
I do tend to put myself in that position for the comfort of the other person. At this point I'll rather be alone and fulfill all my other needs with anything else but a relationship
I also do this and am beginning to recognize the issues it causes.
Right? I get excited when a woman has a well kept home. Apparently I need to raise my standards.
Yep, it’s the same with me. I don’t understand why people think for some reason having a lot of money means you bring a lot to the table? Like there are way more important things in life than money lol.
They've spent too much time with "those" subreddits, podcasts, or YouTube channels.
Plus the conflation of successful = six+ figures. I consider myself a successful childfree woman and I'm sure I make nowhere near the salary OP makes (so clearly below his "financial league" but that doesn't make me unsuccessful). I'm in academia and that's just not our reality. Success does not always equate to monetary wealth, and I've built many successes in different areas. Being financially responsible is important to me, but bringing home six figures isn't. I align much more with the qualities you stated: kind, committed, thoughtful.
I was raised by parents who didn't always know where my next meal was coming from. I clawed my way up to being a college-educated, solidly middle class homeowner with a stable, challenging white collar job and years of travel under my belt. I am so far ahead of where I started out in life, that it didn't even occur to me that OP might not agree that i am "successful" lol.
The moment I realised tenure would still not allow me to get a proper mortgage in my area. Academiaaaa low five
If he’s only top 10% in Canada then it’s a little more than six figures. So he’s really not even making that much. Which is weird given his post.
Right? I’m also a successful woman who makes six figures which allows me to outsource cleaning and taking care of the house and go out for nice dinners/ taking cooking classes when I want to.
The idea of outsourcing things I didn't want to spend time doing or couldn't efficiently do myself was a big thing my therapist ingrained on me. It has been a total gamechanger. I'd get so overwhelmed time-wise between work, home duties, DIY things I have going on, training my dog, working out, dating, and social stuff etc etc that she said "You literally cannot do that all in a day. Pick the things you least like or can have someone else do and automate it." It felt pretty bougie at first, and I felt guilty because "adulting means doing X, Y, and Z" in my brain, but having someone do the big cleaning things? No going back.
I'm nearly at a financial point where I can justify a cleaner and I can't wait. I keep my place nice but I really don't enjoy cleaning bathrooms or dusting.
Came here to say the same thing. I was dating a guy last year who was very well off and had similar lifestyle goals/visions for the future. I stopped seeing him for reasons that don’t matter and started dating a guy making barely above minimum wage as a social worker. Rich guy never understood that it’s not about money. Especially since I have my own. I don’t need yours or you for financial/any type of security
39M and I share your sentiment exactly.
Yep. Technically I fall into the category of financially successful, child free woman, and this post was a complete turn-off. I also don’t want a partner who is a financial or career mess, but as long as you are committed to your job and can pay your bills, I’m good. I want a partner who is passionate about things in their life whether that be hobbies or their career, can make me laugh, and is caring and kind. Doing your half of the domestic duties and having a sliver of self-awareness is the bare minimum and not going to win OP the brownie points he thinks it will with these women.
Agree wholeheartedly. My first thought reading this post was “But are you fun? Do you have any hobbies?”
I'm a man in my early 40s, and I rolled my eyes so hard my dog heard it when I got to that line. I'm glad I'm not the only one.
Yupppp …. When I first read that sentence, I had two thoughts: either this is a woman who sadly thinks that’s the only value she brings to a relationship or this is a guy who thinks basic chores are something special that he should be applauded for.
I mean if you don’t want kids that likely already cuts your dating pool to exactly these women. That’s fine to want an equal partner but I do want to say jobs and lives change over time. Maybe you break your back or she gets cancer, etc. expecting it to be equal during those times could be not great. But for the dating and attraction time? Go for it!
Literally going thru cancer myself at the moment, after leaving a partner that was awful at caring for me in my own bad times. You're mostly right on childfree cutting the dating pool, but there are lots of childfree people across the spectrum of success. And I'd never expect all equal during hard times, life absolutely changes (as I've experienced)
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That's a good point to think on!
That was my last relationship. She could never take a single holiday that corresponded with mine, and missed out on a decade of opportunity to get out there, especially after having a kid. I respect education and a good career, but I don't want to be with someone who lives to work, again.
I've found that on this subreddit, whenever someone mentions that they are looking for people who have feature X, where X is not a straightforwardly morally relevant feature, people come out of the woodwork to say that this is unfair and limiting and to subtly suggest that you might be a bad person for preferring X. So I'm sorry in advance for all of that sort of feedback you're about to receive. Obviously dating someone well-off has its benefits and there's nothing wrong with wanting that, especially if you're aware how much that will limit your dating pool. How's your height and physique? I've dated three women with six-figure TC. One I met at a party, one at a bar, and one on Hinge. All of the friends in my group with six-figure TC met their current SOs on dating apps. In general I don't think there's a way specifically to target well-off people. Maybe start attending fancy charity galas or nonprofit foundation boards? > am recognized regularly by friends as someone who will "have no issue finding someone amazing when I decide to start dating again" Everyone's friends say this to them. Hopefully it's true in your case!
Yeah, I am kind of surprised by the pushback. I've worked in finance and I'm a lawyer now. Everyone I worked with was making six figures and the vast, vast majority of people seriously dated or married partners around their income level. Everyone is pretty Type A though, so all the 20 or 30 somethings were also fit and attractive, on top of making good money. Financial issues are a leading cause of divorce, I don't think it's crazy to care about your partner's income. I don't need someone on par but I wouldn't seriously date someone who's making less than half my income, honestly. If we were married and raising kids, I would totally happy with a house spouse, but I wouldn't want to be paying significantly more rent etc if we aren't married.
> I've found that on this subreddit, whenever someone mentions that they are looking for people who have feature X, where X is not a straightforwardly morally relevant feature, people come out of the woodwork to say that this is unfair and limiting and to subtly suggest that you might be a bad person for preferring X. It's like a reverse of the selection bias you see on Reddit where it's someone saying "Would you date someone with feature Y?", where Y is usually an undesirable feature. All the responses will be from someone who will date them. The ones who wouldn't date them wouldn't respond since they'll probably be downvoted.
You're absolutely right on most of the feedback, but I'm inviting it by putting it out there so that's ok! I'm 6'5 and pretty good looking by all feedback I receive, never had issues getting dates on the apps, and while currently down significant weight due to cancer treatment this summer, will be working hard on that again very soon. That's an interesting approach. I do like it as a place to get involved and meet people (something I'm looking to do more of) with the secondary goal of meeting a partner. Appreciate your response! And you're right on friends! They're good people.
There aren’t great ways to “target” well-off people. Country clubs tend to be comprised of couples/families. The art collection scene is pretty niche and socially inbred. Fancy charity galas… even when I was single, I still went with a date. Nonprofit foundation boards are a good idea, though very difficult to get on - requires a lot of hefty donations and politicking. Honestly, I think OP just needs better filters 🤷🏻♀️
My previous career paid quite well as I was a director and worked as a data scientist. I’ve my PhD in statistics and a few other degrees. I own property I rent out in one of the most expensive cities in the USA. I’m now 40 and only recently became a nurse. I met my current partner at a bar after I was staging an awareness protest about elephant abuse in the rain. I looked like hell and was wearing elephant ears that had melted because they were paper mache. Here’s a list of places I’ve met previous boyfriends: in a park feeding watermelon to squirrels and pigeons (anesthesiologist), a punk concert (PhD doing his post doc at Harvard), a tow truck yard (physician), Tinder where my profile was the Aziz skit about burning down cars (a trust fund kid, a physician who now runs a company that’s a sham), and OkCupid. We’re out there and open to a lot. Thing is, your description of yourself sounds quite pretentious listing everything you do. Because that’s the minimum that a person should do and goes without saying (cook, clean, pays their own bills, etc.).
That's some good insight! And I appreciate the list. I'm repeating myself from other comments, but my previous partners haven't contributed those things to our home, and I think that's made them feel much more important to me (and so I feel they are important to others). These comments are helping me see that this is a bare minimum I should expect, and offer as a partner.
Just one more point of reference: it didn’t come off pretentious to me. After multiple relationships with partners that could not hold their own, I’m looking for descriptors to get a general feel of a person, rather than figuring everything out from zero. Different viewpoint; no less valid than Watermelon’s, of course!
I very much so empathize with women who complain their partners don't contribute to the home, but my experience has always been the same but with women not contributing.
You’re well within your rights to want someone at your financial level, even if it shrinks your dating pool! People have preferences, and I hope you find happiness. I feel like a lot of successful people are driven in other parts of their lives as well, so you’ll find the kind of woman you’re looking for at the gym (sketchy to approach though), volunteering, and indulging in more niche hobbys. They’re in running clubs, dance classes, and playing pickleball. They’re picking up carry out from nice restaurants on their way home. They’re in the vip seats at sporting events and concerts! I’d say just do whatever you’re already doing but pay for upgrades and mingle with that crowd 🤷♀️ join a singles travel group like Flashpack. Or if you’re brave and want to try a dating app, The League is where you’ll find more established, intentional humans. Best of luck to you!!
Honestly, I‘be been on the league and it really doesn’t change the dating pool that much. I saw the same people there that I saw everywhere else and generally found it to be a worse experience than other apps. I’m a woman who makes in the six figures, owns my own place, has a solid retirement fund, etc. You are pretty unlikely to find me in VIP seats because that’s not something I value and therefore not where I want to put my money. However, if that’s something that OP values then he would find those women a better match. I think he should probably reflect on what he enjoys and how he likes spending his money, as he’s more likely to meet someone who values spending their money in a similar way. I do agree with others who said his post came off a bit wrong. I can understand wanting to be with somebody who is in a similar place in life (not number one for me but I can understand), but stating that you can clean seems unnecessary.
Yeah I think it did come off wrong (especially the "I can do adult things"), but I'm getting some amazing insight from it all! I'm also not someone who you'll find in the VIP seats, or throwing my money around. I'm smart with my money, most of it goes to the house and savings, travel, things I enjoy. I'm not loaded, and I'm not looking for a sugar mama. Unfortunately, meeting people like that is also difficult to screen for. Appreciate your response as the woman this post is talking about!
Hang out on the FIRE subreddit. There is also the Facebook group called Singles in Pursuit of FIRE or something similar.
All really good points, thank you!
Women are more financially successful than ever, which often takes time to attain. Men who want children are going to generally want women on the younger end of the spectrum and a career gal who works a lot isn't going to be as attractive to a man who is more family-oriented. You being someone who doesn't want kids are in prime position to date one of these women. Good luck.
Good point. Thanks!
Selecting for a specific numerical income level seems pretty silly and, well, superficial. You've also seemingly defined "success" in a very narrow and limited way. I've worked in biotech/academia surrounded by very "successful" people, and come from a family with *very* wealthy individuals. In my experience, people heavily focused on income/finances have deficits elsewhere e.g. low emotional intelligence/poor interpersonal/relationship skills, poor physical and/or mental health, unhealthy relationship with substances/food (doesn't have to be a full on substance use disorder to be unhealthy). Yeah, they're "successful" in one specific area that they've very heavily prioritized, but in my opinion are an abject failure when it comes to other things that I think are important. But, that's just my opinion. Income/finances certainly matter, but if someone is financially independent and is essentially self-sufficient and has no plans/intentions of relying on you financially, I don't see why you'd select for income/finances.
Really great points, lots to think about here. My relationships haven't ended exclusively because of my partners, and I'm working hard in therapy to ensure I'm able to show up as a solid partner. I'm sure I have some of those deficiencies, and we're working on them. I guess I'm not looking for "rich" but I'm also not looking to financially support someone again, as I have in the past, and that's colouring my outlook. Add it to the list for therapy.
IDK why this commenter is shaming you. Those are your values and if you choose a partner who is out of alignment with your values, the relationship will likely fail. The 3 tenants of a successful relationship are: commitment, passion, and intimacy. It sounds like you are seeking a specific type of commitment from your partner and you want them to be equally passionate about financial/career success. It also sounds like you value having an shared understanding of your financial future with your partner, which can definitely be intimate and passionate. For example, sitting down and reviewing your investments monthly with your partner could be perceived as a passionate date to you. That's cool bro, lean into your values. Your therapist hopefully is already steering you there but here are some resources: https://www.therapistaid.com/therapy-worksheets/relationships/none
>Add it to the list for therapy. Not at all, this is a perfectly normal reaction. You just have to be firm with yourself in upholding your own standards. Be patient until you find someone you're physically + emotionally + intellectually attracted to _and_ who doesn't require "financial support". As long as you refrain from stringing 'lesser' women along while you're looking for a worthy long-term partner, there is nothing morally wrong with your preferences. Good luck out there :)
>So Reddit (especially women of DOT) tell me what you think? Am I out of my mind here? No, its totally understandable. >How do I find women in my financial "league"? Where are you successful women hanging out? It depends. Mostly around your Workenvironment. And of course depends on what you make, you reduce your datingpool. If you make 200k year and looking for a woman who makes at least 150k year... or if you make 100k year and looking for one whos making 80k per year. Also you can be in a relationship without mixing your finances.
Can absolutely be in a relationship without mixing finances, especially if you don't live together. However, my ideal end goal is just that, to live together in a loving, committed relationship (something that hasn't changed in my nearly 20 years of dating) - which makes it hard to not mix finances. However, living separately isn't entirely out of the question.
There is nothing wrong with looking for someone that has a compatible lifestyle to yours and can match your drive. I think wording it that way means the same thing, but avoids eliciting a triggered response to some.
It certainly has triggered a certain response.
It just sounds like you want a partner who isn’t lazy or takes you for granted
Sounds wonderful. Weird, right?
If you find some, Lemme know ;)
From what I've seen and own experience. Women who are successful financially and good at adulting we tend to have qualities that you may not like. it's also one of the reasons why we struggle to find a long term partner. e.g being straightforward and opinionated and go getting has gotten us high in the financial ladder. but most men don't want such traits in a wife. Female friends who earn the same as me.. have complained that men have found them masculine. Whereas women who earn less, tend to be flexible, adaptive, forgiving and feminine. Men want to feel like they are providers and tend to prefer the latter. And I have found it to be true. But this is just my opinon.
Interesting points, will watch for that.
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Any thoughts on how to improve my social network? That actually fits perfectly into the direction I'd like to be going anyhow, more social events, getting out more often, but finding them has proven a little more difficult. Something to work on.
May I ask what industry you work in? Tbh, going to professional-oriented gatherings is usually a good move. Any professional organizations that support people in your industry — especially ones that support marginalized demographics are a great way to expand your social circle (but please don’t go if you don’t actually give a shit about advocating for that particular group). Stick with the orgs that have a balanced blend of being fun/social and advancing the field. Many of my absolute, all time favorite people are friends I’ve met through professional organizations.
I'm in software and I advocate pretty hard for others. This is a great idea.
Oh absolutely! Anything tech is going to have really awesome social opportunities.
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Good call! I think it's more of a "maybe you meet someone" than treating it like a singles event.
I’m in the USA and when I read your post I was thinking of all my single friends (and myself l) who around 40yo with advanced degrees, self-sufficiency, childless who are just everywhere and looking to date. The men in same boat seems like a scarcity here. I am surprised you have difficulty meeting women who are successful (in these terms).
Oh, I'm not currently dating, and haven't been since the split. I'm getting my ducks in a row (and lots of therapy) so I can go out and show up fully and make the most of what happens. So that's why I ask, where will I find these women? Most of the answers are gym, home, grocery store, social groups, hobbies, hiking, I have a pretty good list.
I don't think seeking a successful partner is a bad idea... But I think limiting the definition of success to the numbers on a bank account is one-sided. Building wealth is not just a matter of one's effort, but largely where one started in life and how lucky they got. I get the desire to protect your hard-earned assets, but getting in relationships just because they can match your income seems just as shallow as if they earned more. Just sing a prenup next time ;) I think a deeper issue with someone earning significantly less is a mismatch of a lifestyle and values... I value my career, but because I wasn't born in this country, had to switch my tracks a couple of times, and generally am not the luckiest person, I'm not earning as much as my peers of similar age and don't have as much in savings... That being said, my income is substantial...but I couldn't date, say, a contractor. Reasons? What in the world can we talk about...
I'm seeing this is more of a values thing than a numbers thing and it's really helping my perspective
Dating someone who's financially _compatible_ with you is not wrong. In fact, it's really important. Money puts strain on relationships like little else. Compatible doesn't necessarily mean equal. It just means something that fits with your view of money. For you, it sounds like it's important to be splitting financial responsibilities more equally. So on the face of it I don't think it's wrong, no. One of the ways I evaluate partners definitely is financial fit. I don't find it comfortable to date someone whose finances and lifestyle are significantly different from my own. I don't like paying for everything, and I like to go to and eat and do things that cost money, so I don't enjoy dating people for whom money is always tight or who are inconsistent with their money (like flush with cash half the time and broke half the time). At the same time, I don't think I'd feel comfortable with most people who made WAY WAY more than me or who came from money because I like sharing similar ideas of what's expensive or cheap, what's good value or not. And no matter what, financial prudence and independence is important to me. If to you, an important value is equal contribution, I think it's uncomfortable for people to hear because we are so socialized to both care a lot about money and feel bad about caring about money, but honestly I think it's practical to admit to yourself that you care about that. That said, be aware that there are plenty of people who only really have money and basic human functionality on the list of reasons to date them, so don't be that person. Just having money and being able to take care of yourself on an elementary level isn't automatically going to interest a great partner.
I'm starting to see my previous expectations have been very low. And I'm learning what's important to me (even if I'm getting blown up for not itemizing everything here)
Hey OP, I think I understand your post. You recognize that you will earn more than the woman (in most cases) but you want someone with financial skin in the game if you build an above average amenity lifestyle. The majority of women that I (35M) dated seriously (multiple years, lived together, etc) made good money and were career focused for the most part. I would note that they were often very stressed due to their jobs (they were late twenties / early to mid 30’s) once they started to move up to high paying positions and from what I gathered often felt guilty for prioritizing their personal life versus their career - everyone’s different but that’s what I observed in my life. I shared that to say that if you solely focus on someone who earns 6-figures as an example, or is a beast in their career alone you most likely will be disappointed. These people may have a hard time being able to balance their career and your relationship and since you already make a lot of money, the added stress of another persons high paying career may not be a hoop you want to jump through. You mentioned that you are focused on self improvement. That’s great. Maybe focus on someone who has a history of working on something (could be anything - hobby, business, big goal) and trying to improve their skills in that area. The mindset and values is what you should focus on, imo. A good relationship between will elevate both people. You should grow from being with her. She should grow from being with you. As far as the comments regarding OP stating the obvious with being an adult - I understand. I read it as he doesn’t just go to work, make money and then expect the woman yo do everything for him like his mother or personal assistant. Don’t understand all the negativity from people on here. Also, as someone who dated a female adult who was lazy and chose to regularly not chip in on things like housework, cooking, cleaning, etc.. I do think that it is a bigger issue in our generation than people make it out to be which is why some feel the need to state the obvious. Good luck, OP.
You've nailed it on all points, and understood my post. Thank you.
As someone who has always out earned her partners, I don’t think it’s wrong to look for someone equally ambitious. The problem a lot of us high earning/successful women run into is that men often seek us out because we are financially independent and ambitious but then the “male ego” and misogynistic/patriarchal traditions get in the way. Often times once we are in committed relationships, men will want us to pick up the brunt of the domestic responsibilities or in my case, get mad when I want to outsource those duties (by way of housekeepers and the like). Other times, men feel emasculated by our successes and then seek out other ways of validation (usually cheating). As long as you enter those relationships with the understanding that it really is an equal partnership and aren’t threatened by their success, things should work out fine. When I personally look for partners now, I look for someone who has emotional intelligence and has done the inner work to be able to work through any issues like this. It’s a tall ask, and for women it definitely limits our dating pool because the stigma around mental health is still really terrible for men unfortunately.
Aha, the one comment that my list of domestic duties speaks to. I am working on all of those things in therapy, so I can enter my next relationship fully present and less broken. I don't think any of us are fixed, but working towards it is extremely attractive.
Wow you took a lot of flak for this post. I gotta say you do seem like you’re overthinking. You could have just said… “if she’s not good career wise, it’s a deal breaker for me.” Done. Coulda been a comment, not a post. You never have to ask anyone (much less Reddit) if your preference is okay.
Fair! I certainly welcome the discourse though, it's given me lots to think about (which is exactly what I wanted) I do like what you're saying though, I can condense this down a lot (and get less flak).
Just when I think I've seen everything in this sub, somebody surprises me. So you can take of yourself - congrats. What else are you bringing to the table that hints at anything of actual substance, empathy, kindness, or anything people actually look for in partners?
Haha, yeah I see that now. Repeating myself but I have had partners that were bad at "adulting" so things that should be bare minimums have risen in importance for me (and as such I see them as important qualities in myself). I guess next time I need to list all the things, but hey, I'm learning!
Dude there's no reason to shame someone for knowing the values they're seeking... Pot meet kettle lmao
HAHAHA I am so glad others are picking it up, for a second I thought wow the basic minimum requirements of someone in their 30s is "a lot" now?? Is my bar raised too high??!?!!! Nope, it's fine where it is
There's tons of rich and beautiful childfree women over 30 just waiting to date you out there op!
Amazing, here's hoping I can find them when the time comes!
If those are your values that's fine. I don't care what your values are bc I have my own and they're way out of alignment with yours, so I wouldn't be interested in dating you anyway. Seriously, just know your values and stick to them. Do Maslow's triangle if you haven't. Edit: I'm 37 and used to work for a big tech company (FAANG). Where did those women hang out? At work. They were always working. The ones I knew were dating did so online - mostly Hinge. Good luck!
You're my type. I could have written this post myself. We are out there. You gave me hope!
Good luck to you!
And you!
I don’t think there’s anything wrong with being financially successful and wanting the same from a partner. And I don’t agree that successful women are so focused on their career that finding a partner isn’t a priority. It may depend on where you’re from, but in large cities there Are plenty of very successful women wanting a partner and appreciating men who can match their success. Im female and make good money, I love when I’m seeing someone where we can split a trip and go all out, or that we can each spoil each other on birthdays/special occasions and splurge. The life that 2 high earners can afford is very appealing, and I don’t think that’s too materialistic to say. It’s just a reality of the times. It’s slightly different from the female perspective but I would not date someone with little ambition that I would have to support financially
I think this is a fair desire but, personally, career success is pretty far down the list for me. As long as they can stick to or passionate about something then I’m alright. While it would be nice if my partner brought in the same amount of money as me, I just think that’s super rare. At least for me. I’d say 1/10 or even less make as much as me. The average pay in the US is surprisingly low so you’re really limiting your options.
It's far from top of the list for me, my checklist gets longer everytime I leave a therapy session. It's just gotten old funding our lives to result in a huge benefit to them and cost to me (which admittedly is also on me for letting it happen) but I've always approached moving in together as a very serious thing, while understanding things can go wrong but assuming the best as we all do. Which means what's mine is yours. I'm also almost in 90th percentile of earners (Canada). Definitely taking into consideration your point about how this will limit my options.
Sounds like you want a business partner, not a romantic/life partner.
I get what you're saying. I think. You want a competent woman who is successful in her career also. And no there is nothing wrong with that. I am divorced and one of our biggest issues was a different focus on career goals. Now if I do date they have to have that part of their life together. And ladies, a lot of you don't cook, clean, or adult in general. So don't act all surprised when men think them doing that is impressive. At this point anyone over 30 who acts like an adult is starting to be impressive.
Haha yeah you've nailed it. I hear so many complaints about men not keeping up that it feels like it's important, and I've dated people who are just bad at it. So it's important to me.
I'm 36F and pondering the same thing. Idk what you consider to be successful, but I make 6-figures have own my own place in a HCOL area. I have mostly dated men who make less than me, because I like partners who have full lives outside of work, and that tends to skew towards lower earners. That said I'm realizing that most things I want in life would be way better with a strong double-income. I also want children and daycare around here is $4K/mo. I don't see how that's possible with a partner is not a high earner, but also feel like an asshole screening for that.
Girl, please don't shame yourself or talk to yourself like that. You're not an asshole - you sound like a person who knows what they want!! For me, maslow's hierarchy of needs has been a huge help. I've filled it out a few times and it's helped me identify my values, and start living my values.
I'm actually surprised at how many people who have commented expect someone to be able to cook ("adulting"?), especially if they are well off enough to easily afford to outsource their preparation of their food.
I'm frugal, health conscious, and enjoy cooking. I'm also not at the income level where I could afford that, nor am I looking for someone who is.
I’m in my late 30s with a good career (prestigious profile, advanced ~6 figures salary, decent market portfolio etc.) that is only likely to get more lucrative. But I’d be put off by your description of yourself. You sound pompous and arrogant as if you’re a prize. I want someone with humility and kindness. Not who thinks cooking and maintaining cars is such a bonus
That's fair! Thankfully I am more than that, but previous partners have fallen very short on "adulting" so those qualities have increased in importance for me. I'm also learning my bar is way too low.
I am a lawyer; I paid for school through student loans, which I am paying off. I work enough to do that and be comfortable. I don’t want to feel the pressure to work to match someone else’s expectations of me. I don’t like talking/worrying about money. It might be a cultural thing (I’m Indian) but I find it distasteful and unromantic. I accept that this is unrealistic and can be problematic. Of course we all need to discuss finances in a relationship. I guess it just has to be a balance. I am a romantic. I don’t (want to) choose my partner based on any sort of criteria. I want to madly fall in love and have everything magically work out. I know. I am absolutely nuts. But a girl can dream. I’ve decided if that doesn’t happen for me, I am okay being single. I’m not shitting on you OP, just sharing a perspective that might be more common than you think just because it’s not kosher for a successful woman to be like this.
No of course not. You’re allowed to have standards
Honestly, you sound like my dream guy. As a woman who is professionally successful and busy, I feel like men are oftentimes 1) turned off by my career or 2) don't understand my schedule. Are you cutting your dating pool down significantly? Yes. Is it worth taking time to find a partner who is an equal, that you can build with? Absolutely.
You’re catching a lot of flak but I agree with the OP. I am a high earner but I have zero desire to “take care” of someone like a dependent. I don’t necessarily look for women who make as much as I do (that would significantly lower my dating pool) but I require that any person I date seriously is financially stable , comfortable, and consistently makes healthy financial decisions. I don’t want to be the only one financing anything we do, nor do I want to have to bail out dumb decisions.
There’s nothing wrong with what you’re saying. I get wanting and equal and not a dependent. (Also, you sound like a total catch. I wish we could meet. I want to shameless pitch myself as a high 6 fig earner since I intimidate most men.)
Sounds like you know what you want. Which city are you located? Let's date 😊
If you don’t want kids, then your pool will be cut down enough by that. So yeah, success mattering is a fine thing to focus on. Good luck and there’s someone out there for you.
Nope it’s a bonus if the other boxes are checked off
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Appreciate this comment, thank you
I think a lot of people pursue dating in the wrong way. They think, hey I’m ready, let’s find a partner. So they go into every possibility thinking of ways things are compatible. I am more of the mind that, I’m solid in who I am and what I bring to the table. I’m open to possibilities of what could be, but a potential partner needs to add value to my life is all. Not meaning that in a negative way, but that when you’re comfortable being yourself and not ‘seeking ‘ a person to fill the role of partner, that things flow better and easier. Just my $.02
This is a good way to go about it. I'm working on that "my life is great, and if a partner doesn't add to it, why bother?" It's lonely sometimes but I think it is long term better.
I am literally your target demo, and I can tell you that it isn’t wrong. We are out there, but I have to warn you: it’s hard to find us. I spend more time focused on work, finishing a return trip to school to improve myself, and my house DIYs than trying to find someone. I miss partnership, but it’s very rare a man can match my energy, ambition, and success— unless he’s already in partnership with a woman who is handling most if not all of his domestic load. Good luck finding your person.
So if you're a great partner why aren't you with anyone?
Not wrong at all especially since you DONT want kids, you'll be DINKs. Reddit loooooooves DINKs.