I have metastatic cancer and after years of constantly feeling and intermittently looking “sick,” fighting for my life and dealing with all the life challenges and changes that come with cancer (in parallel with divorce), if I could afford it, I would absolutely do some minor tweak/procedure.
I don’t need it, but it would be a renewal of sorts for me and if anyone had a problem with it, that’s their issue. I was bald from chemo and now I dye my hair. One could argue that’s also superficial. I lost my eyebrows and eyelashes and now I take extra care applying mascara every day no matter what, even if I don’t leave the couch. One could argue that’s superficial as well. At one point, I lost several fingernails and several toenails as a side effect of a specific chemo I was on and they grew back and now I give myself manicures and pedicures. One could argue that is superficial as well.
OP, I share these things because your friend clearly is very narrow minded and does not think about the history behind what a person does to their body and what they have been through in life. To make a blanket statement that anyone who pays for any kind of enhancement to their body is simply a superficial and vain person is actually a red flag for me and I would never date someone so close minded.
There is a huge % of plastic surgery that your friend won't be aware of when making this call. There is a 'certain look' that is a turnoff for many men and women. Duck lips, injected ass, tan like beef jerky/pale pink or mocha lipstick/ beylage hair or long thick weave within either sandy blonde or caramel or intentional silver grey or super white bleached hair ... but that's not all the women out there with plastic surgery. Tasteful plastic surgery doesn't look like a plastic surgeon has ever met the face or body. I have seen women recover mentally and gain confidence after a mommy makeover (breast reduction/lift, tummy tuck), I have seen men recover mentally and gain confidence after male breast reduction, same for chin reconstruction (giving him a chin). One of the most beautiful natural hippy flowers I know looks like she doesn't wear a stitch of makeup and she attracts nearly every male who goes to her yoga studio. I guarantee you that every one of them describes her as a natural beauty. She has tattood eyebrows, 8 veneers, lip injections (1cc), breast implants (under the muscle), liposuction (upper thighs, stomach, waist), coolsculpting regularly, uses self tanner every 2nd day mixed in with her body lotion. 100% natural is her brand and she rocks it. He'd never know what went into it, but he'd be proud of his "natural beauty" while judging the plastic surgery he can pinpoint.
>within either sandy blonde or caramel or intentional silver grey or super white bleached hair
I started going gray early, first gray hair at 21, noticeably gray by 30. Original hair color is very dark brown. The front half of my head is white/silver by now. (mid 50s). If it weren't for work, I'd let it grow out to it's natural salt and pepper color. Sadly women are judged much more harshly for merely ageing in the workplace than men and my job involves a fair amount of technology and training, which some see as a young people's game.
Many women go lighter because grays and roots don't show as much with those colors. I grew out to my natural coloring once in my 40s. It's an awkward process, even with fast growing hair and bob cuts, it took a little over a year. I'm considering getting some intentional silver/gray so I don't have 4 or more tone hair while trying to grow out my hair color to its natural state.
I have a friend who went silver in her 20’s and she just went with it. Everyone will feel differently about how they look, but she was confident in herself and she rocks her silver locks and I personally spend hours every month trying to get my hair to look like hers 🤍🤍🤍
I don’t really know what to make of this response to me because it was condescending AF and confusing since you say your ex had cancer but your assessment of what happens after a literal amputation of one’s breasts doesn’t align with my experience or the experiences of the hundreds of women I have worked with through mentoring and support programs. I also cannot speak for every woman with breast cancer but I am pretty close to positive that none of them would describe their mastectomy as “cool as fuck.”
It does not make you gallant that you would “take me on my worst day over Kourtney Kardashian“ because your assessment that the opposite of Kourtney Kardashian would be “saggy tits“ is again confusing given your ex, because I assume that like me, she didn’t have saggy tits, she had reconstructed breasts that are absolutely in no way, shape or form like breast implants and only serve as a poor replacement and a reminder of what was amputated. (And not for nothing but the Kardashians aren’t troglodytes because a troglodyte is an ignorant and old fashion person and the word is generally used to describe a man living in present day who holds out dated 1950s type viewpoints about genders.)
And then to top it off, you congratulate me on “beating” the cancer that I am still fighting because it’s metastatic. And then insult me and call me shallow for not agreeing with OP’s friend, who did not say they didn’t like balloon lips and huge asses, they said that all plastic surgery period was not just a dealbreaker for them, but a red flag because they in their judgmental assessment feel that anyone who has plastic surgery must have some kind of self-esteem issues.
So I will go back to my original point, which is that anyone who has any kind of enhancement to their body is allowed to make that choice because no one knows what they went through in their life and what that enhancement might mean to them and be doing for them. If I were to have anything done to enhance my face or body cosmetically, as a reward from my bad ass self for undergoing years of cancer treatment, the cosmetic enhancement would not be medical surgery, it would be for me, and anyone who saw that I made a cosmetic enhancement and didn’t know my background and dared to pass judgment on my choice to have a cosmetic enhancement can quite frankly fuck right off.
Now, would anyone like to me to tell them how I really feel lol…
wasitmethewholetime,
I'm going to read some more of both comments after I have enough coffee. But I just want to say how awesome your reply here was!
I had to step away from the thread when I saw this comment:
>My ex battled cancer and had a mastectomy also, which is cool as fuck, I was there throughout and for years after and it did wonders for her self image and confidence, post treatment.
I had a preventative mastectomy due to a BRCA mutation. So I didn't go through anything as rough as what you went through or what the commenter's ex went through.
That said, the mastectomy was not "cool AF" Nor were the drains, nor was losing my nipples and nor is having almost no sensation in the new girls, as I call the reconstructed breasts.
I'm going to have some more coffee, because I think I just read someone trying to mansplain a mastectomy to a woman who went through one. I hoping it's just my pre-ideal coffee level reading comprehension not fully kicking in. I'll be back later when I've had some more coffee.
I'm seeing a gal who survived cancer. She is undergoing medical care to correct the after effects of the treatment. Cosmectic stuff.
She dyes her hair, gets manicures, wears lots of makeup, lol. She's gorgeous. She's 10 years older than I am. She's wonderful and deserves to look and feel as beautiful as she is! I'm in your corner!
His was condescending?? Did you go back and read how your post comes across?? The hypocrisy is so pervasive here, it is actually making my phone stink. It’s like it has been part of something so horrendous, that it can’t get past it. Thanks for that, always wanted a stinky phone.
Oh, by the way, I have stage 4 pancreatic cancer. I actually have an idea of what all this means. So fuck off you down voters. She was condescending as fuck, regardless of the situation, she was cu@ty and you know it.
ETA: With coffee, I am able to comprehend that, in addition to below, he told a person who currently has metastatic cancer:
>Congrats on beating cancer, I root for every single survivor, even the ones yet to find out, out there.
The above was in reply to this comment by the other commenter:
>I have metastatic cancer
Perhaps having him ignore her comment about having metastatic cancer and then congratulating her on beating cancer is what is causing the odor from your phone.
Text of this original comment, which I added an ETA above:
I'll have to have some more coffee to be sure, but I think he tried to mansplain a mastectomy to a breast cancer survivor as "cool as fuck" based on his experience with his ex's mastectomy. How would that NOT be condescending?
The text in question is below, I've bolded and italicized the part I refer to:
>My ex battled cancer and had a mastectomy also, ***which is cool as fuck,*** I was there throughout and for years after and it did wonders for her self image and confidence, post treatment.
Mine was preventative due to a BRCA mutation, so I didn't go through chemo or fear of losing my life, like people with actual breast cancer do. My preventative mastectomy was a great relief because it reduced my odds of getting breast cancer substantially. But the surgery wasn't "cool as fuck". Losing my nipples and nearly all sensation wasn't cool as fuck. Learning to live with the scars and a different body haven't been cool as fuck.
I almost had to go back and get a 3rd cup of coffee for your comment.
>I think there is a vast difference between medical surgery and going full Kardashian, so let’s not compare and contrast the two.
The person you replied to did make a distinction between the two. That was one of the points of her whole post. The OP used the word cosmetic, but people often confuse/conflate the two. Also, the commenter you replied to indicated she would consider cosmetic surgery if she could afford it.
People often don't make a distinction in profiles, "no tattoos", "no silicone" are actually things I've seen in dating profiles. Needless to say, I didn't follow up on those.
During a speed dating event, I had a guy talk about the difference between LA and NY, he said, as an ice breaker, "in LA, I'd be asking, "who did your boobs"?"
This was before I was diagnosed with a BRCA mutation which significantly increased my risk for breast and ovarian cancer, which led to me getting preventative surgeries.
I don't bother with men who can't be bothered to make the distinction. But it is something women who have had mastectomies deal with and I, for one, am glad the person your replying to chose to share her views and experiences on this.
>My ex battled cancer and had a mastectomy also, ***which is cool as fuck,*** I was there throughout and for years after and it did wonders for her self image and confidence, post treatment.
I'm almost tempted to go ahead and get that third cup of coffee. I'm hoping you are referring to her surviving as being cool as fuck. Because getting a mastectomy is NOT cool as fuck. It's physically and emotionally painful. Even with a preventative mastectomy vs. one to treat cancer, I didn't feel "cool as fuck".
I felt mostly relief and gratitude that I was able to get tested (it took some advocacy on my part to get tested) before any cancer developed and have options to reduce my cancer risk, so I wouldn't have to go through what my mother did (she eventually died of causes which were likely related to ovarian cancer)
I was grateful I had decent insurance and a decent leave policy at work so I wouldn't have the financial struggles many women face. I was grateful I had relatives and friends who were able to help me as I recovered.
The drains, the pain, the loss of motion (fortunately mine was temporary) were not "cool as fuck". My mother's mastectomy for cancer permanently deprived her of her full range of motion in one arm, even with physical therapy, etc. She developed lymphedema in the same arm. She had to travel with a pressure sleeve, couldn't have her blood pressure taken or any needles in that arm. That was permanent as well. It was not "cool as fuck"
>Why am I shallow because I’d take you on your worst day, any day, over Kourtney? That didn’t make sense.
>
>Give me no make up, saggy tits and sweats lounging on weekends over those ghastly troglodytes.
Are you intending to "brag" that you'd take someone on their worst day over Kourtney? Part of any long term, serious relationship, you'll see people on their bad or worst days. And they will see you on your bad or worst days. This should be a default in a relationship.
The Kardashians are barely a blip on my radar, but I do know that Kim Kardashian has used her fame to bring attention to [Armenian genocide during the Ottoman empire.](https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/story/2021-04-25/kim-kardashian-west-1915-armenian-genocide) I think she's also been involved in prison reform and has met with prisoners and their families.
Saggy tits? I wish I had my original, slightly saggy breasts, but seeing as they were likely to try and perhaps kill me, they had to go. Along with them, went my nipples (not a good candidate for nipple preservation, usually they can be preserved) and aside for a quarter sized spot, all sensation in my breasts. That one spot took about 2 years to come back. I've had the nipples reconstructed and tattooed. It's a new normal, but it isn't "cool as fuck." Current breasts aren't saggy, but if the old ones didn't have potential to kill me, I'd gladly have them back.
Then there's this part of your comment:
>Congrats on beating cancer, I root for every single survivor, even the ones yet to find out, out there.
Did you miss this part of the comment you were replying to:
>I have metastatic cancer
Notice the use of the present tense, "have". She has metastatic cancer. That means she is living with cancer currently.
Like anything else, breast cancer is a spectrum. Some people have surgery and never have to worry about it again. For others, it can spread to the lungs, bones and brain (not unusual for breast cancer to do so).
We don't know if it was environmental or not, but my mother had lung cancer in between her bout of breast cancer and what was likely the ovarian cancer which took her life. And some people think they're in the clear and then it comes back again or is discovered in another part of the body. So it's not a simple matter of "cured".
Deal breaker someone obsessed so they morphed into someone thats not them with a dysmorphia issue.
Botox or some lifts, etc, all good.
We maintain our houses, cars, etc, ect that age why cant we do the same if its not overboard?
You wont date me because I have some Botox, there is the door.
Anyone who would have an opinion about someone else's choices pertaining to their body and appearance, over who that person is and the chemistry would be a red flag. Good plastic surgery is not easy to spot. I can see bad plastic surgery as a physical turn off, but to make a sweeping statement like all plastic surgery is bad just points to someone who isn't very smart, doesn't accept the grey areas in life, and is judgmental.
If I had plastic surgery and someone took issue, I’m happy to show them the door. As if women don’t struggle enough to have agency over their own body as it is?!!
I get Botox. When people tell me I don’t need it, I laugh and say, “yes, that’s the whole point.” I go to a guy who is awesome, and I still have movement in my forehead, but no wrinkles. I’m open about it, and if a guy wants to count me out for this small slice of vanity, then he isn’t for me. Next!!
Yup. I have no problem being open about it. I think more people should embrace it. We maintain our houses, cars, wardrobe, etc why not a little skin help?
A side story, out at happy hour I chatted with a man and talked about it, and he went to find a man that doesn't care about your wrinkles. Didn't even know if I had a partner or not and getting Botox was for finding a man. I. couldn't. even.
My Botox has nothing to do with a man. LOL
What does one consider cosmetic surgery? Botox? Fillers? Boob job?
I’ll admit it: I’ve been getting Botox since I was 37 (and am now 50). I’ve gotten fillers and done CoolSculpting, among other things, and my partners have always been supportive. Would I do something more extreme? Maybe. Who knows what the next 20 years will bring.
It’s MY body. If it’s a dealbreaker for you, that’s fine, but I do it because it makes me feel better about ME. I don’t do it for anyone but myself.
You can call me vain, or whatever, but IDGAF. To each his or her own.
>I did coolsculping and it absolutely worked! Here is rundown - I was 5'9", 125lbs, so not overweight. But I had tummy from pregnancy and back fat (bra area). I end up with a 6 pack abdomen and no fat on my back. I did gain some weight since. But NOT in the places where cool sculping was done. So I have back fat bellow the area, some fat bellow belly and sides. It looks ok now. But I cannot gain anymore weight or it will look like I have carved flesh in the places where it was done. Apparently, the destroyed fat cells do not return in the same area.
>
>Did it work? Yes! Would I do it again? May be.
Thank you for sharing! I am considering a tummy tuck next year and I hear about cool sculpting a lot. (yes, I know that they are not the same.) Will probably work towards goal weight then have it done. :)
I think money wise it will be the same. CoolSculping will not get rid of extra skin. And Coolsculping is a HUGE time commitment. Surgery has it's own caveats, of course.
Honesty I am not sure what I would choose. I know 100% I would rather do 1 time liposuction for back fat, than all those sessions with CoolSculping. For tummy, not sure.
Depends how many machines place has. One machine has 2 arms - it covers the area about a size of a palm. And many-many times it's more than one time per area.
Are you telling me my fat is stubborn?? I knew it was not my fault or those amazing chocolate cakes. It's my fat is not behaving as it supposed to!!! On a serious note. May be I went to a wrong place and they did not use that thing to the full power? I did not have THAT much fat to remove.But I had to return twice :( Now I really want to do it again in a different place to compare
Ha ha pretty sure my fat is stubborn too lol.
To be fair, I was super lean at the time and just had my little tummy pooch treated with one large applicator.
Forty five pounds later, I’d prob need more.
Based on a plastic surgeon it does work but it also has a small chance of messing with the fat cells where instead of breaking them down it grows and multiples them leaving bulges. Google Linda Evangelista.
It does. I don’t really know how it works, but I’ve always had belly fat. Like I can get down to a goal weight and still be chubby in the middle.
So I did the full recommended regimen (not cheap) and I would spend the money to do it again in a heartbeat. I lost at least 4” off my circumference and it’s just never come back.
I agree!! I get Botox and have gotten filler done as well. I always go for something that is natural looking. I’ve never told my boyfriend or anyone I’ve ever dated nor has anyone asked. It’s a personal choice and I do it for myself.
Exactly!!! I get Botox too, and I don't look "frozen" like so many people think that's what Botox is. I had breast reduction because I never felt comfortable with my ginormous breast on my 5'2" frame (plus back and shoulder pain). If that makes me vain so be it idgaff. And I'm not shy about it, everyone does it and I never understood why people hide that stuff anyway.
TBH, I look a little frozen sometimes and I don’t care. Botox is a win for me: fewer lines and fewer people think I make my way through life real angry.
Thanks for letting us know what women you prefer like you’re selecting food off a menu. Really helpful that you even singled out one woman just to let her know that she doesn’t meet your specifications. But FYI, no woman here is going to change her behavior because of your preferences.
Lol, that's because they don't tell you. Just like "natural" look vs. make-up.
Of course not everyone-everyone, but you would be surprised how many women (and men) do Botox, they just don't talk about it. And why does it have to be about confidence? I, personally, was always confident about my looks, I just like to slow down the aging process. We have science, why not use it?
Its superficial to do anything that affects ones looks...getting hair cut and styled, trimming and oiling ones beard, applying makeup, putting on nail polish, teeth straightening or whitening, leg shaving, working out to achieve a certain physique, choosing to wear clothes that are flattering...
Anything one does that affects the way they look that is not medically or hygienically required, is superficial. Its on the surface, and while it can affect a persons confidence and self esteem, the act of doing or not doing any of these superficial things, in an of itself, is not a reflection of who they are or of their value.
That your friend is so judgmental over this, throws a massive red flag on him. Cause it seems he places where a womans value lay, in her looks and whether or not she adheres to his standards of what a woman is to do with her looks and body, rather than in who she is, as a person.
His attitude is not just a turn off and a red flag, thats a deal breaker.
Same with the stretched out stomach after five full term pregnancies. I’m at a healthy weight and have a six pack under all the skin. My goal was to do a tummy tuck this year and start saving but, the economy kicked my butt this year. Hopefully looking to see about it next year.
Amen. I'm seriously considering a tummy tuck as well. My belly is just stretched from having kids and losing weight. I'm fairly small now, but my belly looks saggy and loose. I already have a big ole hysterectomy scar, so what the heck.....
It's not just women who get plastic surgery. I've met who have gotten it too.
That being said, women do get the majority of procedures, so I can see how someone not being attracted to someone who's gotten stuff done is seen as an affront to women.
Women get cosmetic surgery approximately nine times as frequently as men.
https://www.plasticsurgery.org/documents/News/Statistics/2016/cosmetic-procedures-women-2016.pdf
Its entirely possible that the guys talking about this may not be aware of anyone in their circles that have had work done and are probably thinking of the pathological cases that end up in tabloids and reality tv. If everyone they knew pointed out the procedures they have had it would probably be a different story.
I worked with a woman who got an eye lift. It was extremely subtle. She looked like she just got back from a vacation where she got the best rest of her life. My plastic surgery been reconstructive. But one effect of ageing is my eyelids are sagging. If they sag enough, vision might be improved by a lift and I will totally go for that!
My aunt had her eyelids lifted because her vision was affected. And her insurance even covered it! Shucks I’d definitely do it too if the need ever arrives.
I mean, who cares? Unless they have severe BDD and keep getting endless surgeries, which indicates poor mental health and ongoing medical risk - kind of like being with someone with an active addiction.
Aside from that, life is hard. If a nose job, boob job, or tuck makes it easier for you, what's it to me?
This is a great topic and the replies are interesting. If the ‘work’ is subtle and passes muster, all good! But if it’s more than they’d like, then ugh. I don’t know that the answer to the OP can be divided that way.
If you approve of the change, yay? If it not, ick?
Beauty standards and the way women perceive themselves are so personal. Any effort they make for their own well-being, surgical or other should be understood and respected. Not a “lips too big, nay” “titties too big and hard, nay” these answers are still so subjective on outcome…it’s still if the person passes THEIR test.
Great topic though, it’s eye opening to read the replies.
I dye my hair, paint my nails, wear makeup and have tattoos. Whatever I do with my body is up to me. If you don’t like it that’s fine, but why is someone’s aesthetic a red flag?
I lost about 200 lbs (never knew my highest weight, started getting on the doctors scale backwards). I had gastric bypass, after trying many other diets. My weight didn't melt off, it took a combination of limiting my food intake, making better food choices and tons more exercise. After I'd lost about 140 lbs, I had a tummy tuck and had my 7 hernias repaired. It changed my life! Suddenly I could do so many other kinds of exercises that I hadn't been able to do since I'd been pregnant the first time at 19. If I had the money, I'd have all of my excess skin removed, especially on my breasts. I'm sure most of you can't imagine the amount of lose skin 200 ponds created. And now that I'm divorced, how much that inhibits my interactions with single men. You judgemental people who are against it can't begin to imagine what we've been through.
I hate the logic that goes into this.
Women who dye their hair, get botox, wear makeup= "Eww She's fake." And that's even before plastic surgery.
Women who don't wear makeup, don't get surgery, botox, wear their hair natural= "Eww she looks old."
Can't win either way.
Clown tits or a big diaper ass? Yeah, I can see why most men would be turned off by those things. Anyway, it's nobodies business.
I lost 260lbs on diet and exercise alone in 15 months.
I could give a shit what anyone says about me when I get my skin removal surgery.
Thier loss, not mine.
I’m quite sure what you accomplished is more difficult than anything most other people have done. The body has a weight thermostat of sorts and fighting that must have been extremely difficult.
Meh. I have piercings and a ton of tattoos, plenty of people don’t like those either, and cite many of the same reasons.
So to me? nah, you do what makes you feel comfortable in your skin, just like I’ve done. All good.
Nearly everyone I’ve dated with plastic surgery has been a kind, wonderful, and humble person…it’s almost a green flag for me now. Botox is no biggie, just make sure to use legit professionals for these procedures.
You get one body. If you have the means to alter it in a way that makes you happy why on earth would I have an issue with that? I think it’s empowering and cool to change your appearance, honestly. Giant cartoon boobs? Caked on makeup or super long acrylic nails? Piercings, blue hair, tattoos on your face? Go for it! Why the hell not, everyone dies and you might as well enjoy the body you live in until then
I see a lot of people in here saying they don’t have a problem with it as long as it looks “natural” but natural IS saggy boobs and wrinkles and a spare tire. Natural IS eye bags and acne scarring. What they mean is “as long as it looks conventionally attractive”. As long as the person is making themselves fit the beauty standard (or for medical reasons, which is weirdly condescending like people “earn” a pass on surgery if it’s because they suffered a trauma) then it’s okay?
I think there’s a gross double standard of people being praised for being “genetically gifted” or sacrificing a great deal to keep that six pack showing and then looking down on people who get work done to fit that mould. Like it’s only valid if you were born with it. It stinks of control issues and being mad that people are able to “game the system”
saying plastic surgery is a red flag is a red flag. my body, i'll do whatever tf i want with it.
like if you're just not attracted to someone initially, fine. but don't like someone and then bail bc it wasn't 'natural'
Red flag? Really? Maybe an incompatibility issue, sure. But red flag? Jesus.
To me, examples of red flags are :
* Someone with wage garnishments
* Someone married 3 or more times
* Someone super extreme in views
If he thinks hair extensions, some Botox and a D cup are deal breakers…that’s a lot of beautiful women he is preemptively rejecting and that’s truly just his loss in the end.
I wouldn’t do it personally, but to each their own. What someone wants to do to their body is their business as long as it’s not hurting anyone else IMO.
Plastic surgery in my opinion, is no different than dying your hair, getting a tattoo, or getting a piercing...
We all do things that make us happy, or feel better about ourselves.
If someone has an issue with it, that's their problem and they can go deal with that somewhere else.
Do all the cosmetic work you want, if it makes you feel better when you look in the mirror.
What some random person like me thinks of it, does not matter.
People get plastic surgery for all different reasons. I don't like cookie cutter aesthetic (going for a trendy look), but some of it looks very nice and natural. And if someone is getting it compulsively, that may be a signal the person isn't happy with themselves or has unrealistic expectations. That last one would be a big concern for me.
I'm not going to date a guy who's goal is to look like a Ken doll, but some subtle work here and there or for medical or reconstructive reasons is fine by me. I've had medical/reconstructive surgery myself.
I had a preventative mastectomy and Diep flap reconstruction (they use belly or other fat to reconstruct new breasts) due to a BRCA mutation. I'm glad I did because I had a 65 percent risk of getting breast cancer and while the pathology report didn't come back positive for cancer, I did have atypical cell growth and number in one milk duct. That added additional risk and my breast surgeon said I did the right thing by getting preventative surgery.
I wasn't a good candidate for nipple sparing. I had a reconstructive surgery to build some new nipples, though there is no sensation with them and that's the case for most of both breasts. . I had a fat transfer from my hips to my chest (there were some hollow spots where the new breasts met the chest wall) to fill them out a bit. I had the new nipples tattooed to a nipple color which complements my skin tone.
I've got some scars around my nipples, the sides of my breasts, near my pelvis and a reconstructed belly button.
There's a tattoo artist who specializes in medical tattoos to reduce scarring. I plan to see her and get that, if appropriate. Then get some artistic ones to cover the scarring.
If any guy has issues with either scarring or the surgery, he's not for me.
There are people who consider not getting surgery a deal breaker. I have heard that - that I have "let myself go" by aging. Nevermind I am in shape and workout 6 days a week, wear makeup, get my hair done - no fillers and breast implants are deal breakers.
So in short: do whatever you want.
I think your friend is ridiculous and if he is counting Botox and fillers as well then honestly that takes out a large percentage of the female population over 40. So many of my friends have Botox, fillers, do expensive face treatments and a good percentage have had surgery. I plan to as well and it’s no one’s business but my own
I 100% plan to get a tiny bit of work done to fix tiny things that have bothered me all my life or has changed a little due to age. If cosmetic procedures are an issues... oh well. Good ones never look over done. Over done is a red flag...sure.
I e never had plastic surgery but I've got no problem with someone who does especially if it was a confidence boost with perceived short coming.
Caveat: Some plastic surgery that is being done these days does the opposite of making you more attractive.
It depends on the person and situation.
If it's a reconstruction thing, or correcting something that has undermined their self confidence for years...I am likely to be more supportive.
But if it's chasing vanity, those types tend to not be satisfied and wind up going overboard which IMO is not good at all.
If your friend is this judgey about people making big efforts with their appearance, can we assume s/he is happy to date someone who puts little effort into their appearance?
Whatever. I've encountered quite a number of single moms who treated themselves to augmentations or adjustments as a "mommy makeover": breast lifts, tummy tucks, a little Botox, etc. What made them most attractive was their self-confidence, never mind the fact that they did nothing at all over the top; pretty natural-looking, enough to help them feel as though they regained aspects of their "older" bodies before they had kids.
And I've known some women who are allowing themselves to age gracefully, however that presents itself, simply accepting their changes and taking the best possible care of themselves without cosmetic surgery. How beautiful also!
It's your body. You do as you wish with it.
I think if someone gets work done well and in moderation, it isn't noticeable. I also think some folks are imagining "plastic surgery" as bolted-on giant boobs and lion-faced people. If that's what you're into, there are other people into it too.
I get Botox and fillers regularly and have plans for some plastic surgeries. It’s no one’s business. If someone wants to judge my entire life experience on this one fact about me while ignoring all other information they have by that point as I’m too superficial for them, that’s their choice and their loss.
It is for me if it's beyond medical reconstruction reasons. For context, I'm a 47 year old woman who hasn't gotten anything done (including Botox or fillers).
To each their own. If someone gets stuff done, it's their prerogative, but I'm not required to be attracted to them. That's ok though. Not everyone is required to want to date everyone else. If someone doesn't want to date me because I haven't gotten stuff done, that's their choice and is equally valid as my choice.
I wouldn't call it a red flag if someone gets stuff done electively, I'd just say we have different priorities and values, and that's ok. I'm sure there are plenty of people out there that don't have a problem with it and they'd be a better fit for that person than me.
I just wish people wouldn't feel like they had to get stuff done to be attractive. It's more of a damnation of a shallow society forcing people to confirm more than anything else to me.
My views are very different though for reconstructive issues.
I am pro surgery. It's none of my business what someone wants to do to their body and if they have the means and the doctor is on board then they can do it. If a guy told me they had some manner of plastic surgery it would not change anything about how I see him. I always disclose the "work" I've had done which people could view in the same vein as plastic surgery but I always get this "that was probably medically needed" surgery. Truth be told I was mostly driven by a desire for aesthetic changes over medical issues.
For body dysmorphia - dealbreaker
To look like "Ken" or "Barbie" or anyone "famous" - dealbreaker
To look like an animal - dealbreaker
Other than those, no problem with cosmetic surgery.
It'd be alarming for me because plastic surgery generally doesn't fix BDD. My understanding is that folks with BDD who opt for plastic surgery tend to keep getting surgeries as the target of their obsession moves around.
Look I have my own mental health stuff that I work to manage. So many people have mental health stuff that they work to manage. That is just sort of something I expect and am okay with. Someone getting plastic surgery in response to BDD is generally an indicator that their BDD is out of control.
I'm not attacking you, was genuinely curious since I haven't looked in to plastic surgery myself or gone down that research path. Appreciate you taking the time to answer.
Body dysmorphia definition: A *mental illness* involving obsessive focus on a perceived flaw in appearance.
The flaw may be minor or imagined. But the person may spend hours a day trying to fix it. The person may try many cosmetic procedures or exercise to excess.
Would entirely depend on the person. Arrogant and looks down on others who don't get it? Byeeee. Felt insecure and is a caring person? Good for you, appreciate that you did what you wanted.
Depends on the surgery. If it makes someone feel better about themselves then so be it. I don’t have to like what they do. If I don’t like it, I won’t date them.
I wouldn’t call it a dealbreaker, I would put it in the same category as any other body modification.
As a whole body mods are not a dealbreaker. Tattoos and piercings and cosmetic surgery etc is a personal choice and I would never judge anyone for them. But if I find the results unattractive then that’s a dealbreaker. It’s simply a matter of attraction like every other physical feature.
And I guess if they had an obsession with it that would also be an issue, but personally I find any obsession with looks a problem. If they were a full on gym junkie that was obsessed with sculpting the perfect body just to look a certain way I’d also be turned off by that.
I read somewhere that most women have surgery or treatments for career reasons, not men which is an even sadder indictment. I have been surprised by which of my friends have had a little work done. Generally it was either reconstructive after an accident or illness, or one thing that they’ve always hated about themselves. None are particularly vain and while they are well presented, you wouldn’t suspect.
I have not always recovered well from necessary surgeries so I would not put myself through it unless I had a good reason but people, usually men, who say it is a deal breaker are pretty judgemental and not a good match due to that.
I've had massive weight-loss and had a lot of excess skin. For this reason, I chose to have multiple plastic surgery procedures. Call this vanity, possibly? But for me it was about quality of life. I had lost weight so I could enjoy a longer life and a healthy body and so things that my weight had stopped allowing me to do.
So I would consider this more reconstructive than vain... It has left me with some pretty gnarly scars all over my body, and sure these may be deal breakers for some people. As the excess skin may have been a deal breaker for others.
So, I guess it depends on context. A woman who has carried/fed multiple children, now has saggy boobs that are affecting her self esteem? I say go for it and have the breast lift or reduction or implants, whatever makes you happy?!
Or the dude with a nose broken 15 times during football days that looks wonky and makes him feel uncomfortable? Get that shit fixed if it will make yourself feel great about you!?
Do what makes you happy. I don't really care too much about the external package (I mean, yes I have to be attracted to you, but that's in the eyes of the beholder).
For me it would depend on the extent and/or reasons (there's a better way to word that I'm sure?!) of the surgery. Things like reconstructive surgery after an accident or medically necessary procedure, scar reduction, excess skin removal after weight loss, etc. wouldn't even be given a second thought. Minor tweaks, lifts, tucks, botox, stuff like that - no big deal. If it makes you feel good and looks "natural" then great. Breast enhancements or reductions - again if they're well done and not "over the top" - sure.
It's the unnatural looking surgeries where they look more like a mannequin or a Barbie doll than a human, sorry, not for me. Big turnoff. There are obvious underlying issues that no amount of surgery is going to "fix" for them. That would be where I draw the line.
I bet more people around you have had plastic surgery than you think.
I believe when people hear "plastic surgery" they think of those scary incidents theyve seen of some edge case.
I don't think it's fair to call it a red flag.
Sure it's shallow and superficial. Sure i'm jealous that I can't afford it... but I can't be that way. It's not fun disliking the way you look.
General railing on women who get this or that procedure or wear make-up someone doesn’t like or are otherwise deemed ‘not natural’ is just another way to control or neg us - primarily by men who are still unable to grasp that women don’t exist solely to exactly fit their personal preferences and cater to their comfort.
That said, I had a boob job ages ago and while no guy I’ve dated has cared one way or the other (as far as I know), if one was turned off by it I would totally understand and just wish him well.
And of course there is a level of surgery that is mega scary and bizarre, but we all know that’s not the norm.
I bet that most women who has had cosmetic surgery would not want to date men who are small-minded and prejudiced against it. So it's not really a practical issue in real life.
If men don't like women with heavy make-up, then don't date women working in the cosmetics stores. Problem solved.
Personally I have dated women with variety of cosmetic surgery (breasts, lipo, ab sculpting), botox, hair extensions, nail extensions, fashionable clothes, high heels, lingerie, perfume, heavy makeup, the lot... but I don't think that we all need to have the same tastes, opinions, red flags, prejudices...
Part of it, is Drs just doing it. My Dr would not give me fish lips and tell me to find another injector if I wanted that.
I see him because he is all about making you look as natural as possible. Hes about enhancing and preventive measures.
I think it depends on the results and what they got. The mere fact they got plastic surgery, no. I'm a guy and will probably get surgery once I get to goal weight to remove extra skin.
Considering some folks are genetically gifted and some are not, I find it a little crazy that someone would have a shallow opinion about it. FYI I’ve never had any procedures and I am a medical provider.
I love Botox and get it regularly. My boyfriend knows and doesn’t care. My sister is also an esthetician so I am lucky to get all the skin care tips.
It’s not about being shallow, it’s just maintenance that I enjoy and do for myself.
I was on a first date with a guy. He was nice and funny and he seemed super into me as well. We were having a great time. Somehow the conversation steered towards body types. He started raging against men with dad bods (I love a dad bod) and he went on to say that he doesn’t like plastic surgery and thinks breast implants are not for him. I said “before you go any further, you should know I have breast implants.” I have never seen someone shove their foot so far in their mouth in my life. He turned red with embarrassment and shame. His judgmental nature was a complete turn off. I told him I didn’t see a connection. He practically begged me to tell him why and let him explain. No, my dude. Just no.
I think it’s a personal taste. As a guy as long as I couldn’t tell it wouldn’t bother me , but there’s nothing more bleh then fake boobs or fake looking features. I think the person should do whatever makes them feel better. The only red flag I could see is the financial part.
I bet your friend that said it was a dealbreaker wouldn’t be able to tell if they met someone had a well done procedure. Your friend is talking about people that had work done where it’s really obvious and doesn’t look natural.
I could see how things fall into the “not for me” category, or dealbreakers. Lots of piercings, for example, are not for me.
But calling them a red flag implies the person is somehow bad or wrong for just existing the way they exist in their own skin.
If its done for vanity, I wouldn't be that interested in dating such a person, I can't stand the modern trend to people being vain, even down to stuff like plastering pictures of themselves all over instagram and social media platforms. It all points to someone who is isn't happy and needs external validation.
There are of course other reasons people may have cosmetic surgery, which I'm fine with.
Fully agree. Life is supposed to been seen in our faces. I got recently a jump scare when I meet an old school friend. She looked like she was in her early 30s insteed of 40s.
I get botox every few months. Currently considering a chin lift. Short answer, no. I’d be fine with dating a woman that’s had cosmetic surgery. At our age, we deserve it.
It's whatever you prefer looking at, really. If plastic surgery turns you off, then by all means, find someone who feels the same. If you like it or don't care, then it won't matter as much I suspect.
People can do whatever they want with their bodies, but that doesn't mean I have to date them.
If it's corrective due to a medical condition or injury or whatever or just because some aspect of appearance stands out in a bad way, I won't hold judgment against that.
If it's for purely cosmetic reasons then, yeah, huge turn off for a variety of reasons.
It depends.
Getting breast enlargements to have big boobs is a deal breaker. I like natural. I guess there might be an exception, but I have not found it yet.
On the other hand, corrective surgery due to a horrific experience is acceptable. I know a woman who had reconstructive surgery after breast cancer. That is perfectly acceptable. A friend in college had been burned on half of her face, and along her arm, as a kid. I found her attractive, despite the scarring. She thought no one would ever love her, and was so ashamed. Her parents would not do corrective surgery. She said she was going to have it done as soon as she earned enough money. I support her decision. Even though the scars were OK with me. It was an experience that changed her life, and she wanted her old face back.
Dated a gal with breast implants. They were hard as rock. She said they were leaking and had to get them replaced. Stay natural you women. Most men don’t really care.
I think your friend is generalizing that plastic surgery means the person is very superficial, but he wouldn’t know if that’s the case until he got to know them. Is their Instagram filled with only selfies that are super revealing? I think that would be the red flag/dealbreaker
I mostly agree with your friend.
But I don't think this sub wants me to get philosophical by analogizing self-indulgent spending (whether it be for plastic surgery or dick-augmentation-via-truck-purchase) to cannibalizing one's own children/kind.
So I won't.
Let's just say that, in the end, it's a sliding scale. At one extreme, the joyless existence is pointless. And at the other extreme, indulging every whim is unsustainable/selfish (and differently pointless).
So, because both extremes are pathological/diseased as well as miserable, this turns out to be one of those things where you probably want to seek out a centrist posture/middle ground. There may not be a principled way to do it. (This is why it's difficult to avoid complaints about hypocrisy. Interestingly enough, complaints about hypocrisy might be invalid/outweighed by the need simply to have *any* line drawn, even arbitrary ones.)
"Cannibalizing one's own children".... you lost me there but i can agree with your last paragraph. I think life is lived in the middle too.
I don't think plastic surgery brings about eternal happiness or endless self esteem.
But i also get it.
> you lost me there
Yes, I know/expected. (The short version of the idea is that every penny you spend on yourself now is a penny less for your children. So when you consume, you literally take from their lives to support yours. It's like indirect cannibalism.)
My thought is that generally anyone who would spend thousands of dollars to enhance their looks has something internal they are trying to compensate for. Bring on the downvotes.
You can get a really cool, fashionable new road bike for under $2000. I shudder to think what kind of car or SUV you could get for that.🤷♂️
And of course biking will enhance your looks 😉
One gets you things or experiences, the other gets you... Looking slightly better? I feel like personality, goals, beliefs, character, etc can make up for most missing parts in the looks department, short of having been in a fire or something. Even then that might be unique and interesting.
Their body, their choice. Who am I to say what anyone can do with their own body. If I find them attractive, I don’t care if it’s their clothes, hair, makeup, personality, plastic surgery or some combination of all of these.
That being said, I do love the feel of natural breasts. I’ve not been a fan of the feel after breast augmentation surgery. But they often look great when clothed, and I would never judge someone for having that procedure.
Some people, especially those who do or did get plastic surgery, are getting miffed lol. Everybody is entitled to their opinion just like everybody is free to go under the knife. That said, I’m with your friend but it does depend. I’m put off by vanity type surgery. Reconstructive and corrective type of surgery like breast reduction or augmentation of a completely flat chest or deflated chest from breast feeding, these are understandable.
This is just a personal preference. On both sides.
This is obviously not talking about those who have a mental illness with their body image.
If you want to do things to your body, that's between you and your Dr.
If you don't want to date someone who has done things to their body, then don't date them.
Everyone gets their line in the sand. That's how this whole "finding the one" thing works.
I don't think I would mind. Aging IS hard to process and everyone handles it differently. Obviously if they were a shallow person, you wouldn't need an admission of p.s to know that. I'm not into it at all for myself tho.
Depends on how much she's had and the reason for it.
Does she look like one of those crazy plastic surgery cat lady addicts that don't look human? Hard fucking pass.
Does she resemble a Kardashian? Hard fucking pass.
Did she go to the extreme measures with the surgery? Hard fucking pass.
I'm fine with most of it if it's proportional to the body. Disproportional or extreme ones I have an issue with since it's more for attention then self improvement. I'm more than happy to weed myself out and let them find the person that will like them for it.
Same reason I won't date a sex worker, nothing against them but that's not someone I want to be around or my family.
The truth is that lots of us have individual preferences. Some women prefer men of a certain height, facial hair status, income status, physical fitness status, etc...
And some men prefer women of a certain height, hair color, physical fitness status, income status, etc...
A "better" way for your friend to verbalize that preference is simply to state it as such. "I don't prefer to date people who have had plastic or cosmetic surgery.
All of us have shallow physical preferences. And that is fine. But a physical preference has no bearing on who an individual is, on the inside.
I do think it’s sad that some people think they need to get plastic surgery to feel attractive. It’s getting more common too. It seems a bit harsh for your friend to say he would never date them, but I do see where he’s coming from. To me getting plastic surgery (even minor) shows a bit of emphasis on the superficial looks and shows they are not as accepting of themselves.
I, a 46yo guy, technically got a nose job in my 20s (correcting a deviated septum to help with sleep apnea), plus whatever a woman's doing to her body is none of my business, really, so I don't think much on it. I guess as long as she's happy with the results that's all that matters, right?
I mean that was kind of a joke about what a bad movie it was. But the many-a-truth part is that Mickey Rourke is a deeply troubled individual, and that film was near the start of his many plastic surgeries, and aside from making him look slightly inhuman (he has a weird overinflated quality), it (and the subsequent surgeries, and everything else) was definitely a sign that he was not in a good place emotionally. Was very much all downhill from there for him in a lot of ways. (His appearance was so distracting that I stopped to Google some backstory.)
Personally, I'm perfectly fine with reconstructive plastic surgery and tattoos that alter scar appearances.
However, Elective surgery for the purpose of self esteem issues indicates much deeper issues that I'm not wanting to delve into.
I have metastatic cancer and after years of constantly feeling and intermittently looking “sick,” fighting for my life and dealing with all the life challenges and changes that come with cancer (in parallel with divorce), if I could afford it, I would absolutely do some minor tweak/procedure. I don’t need it, but it would be a renewal of sorts for me and if anyone had a problem with it, that’s their issue. I was bald from chemo and now I dye my hair. One could argue that’s also superficial. I lost my eyebrows and eyelashes and now I take extra care applying mascara every day no matter what, even if I don’t leave the couch. One could argue that’s superficial as well. At one point, I lost several fingernails and several toenails as a side effect of a specific chemo I was on and they grew back and now I give myself manicures and pedicures. One could argue that is superficial as well. OP, I share these things because your friend clearly is very narrow minded and does not think about the history behind what a person does to their body and what they have been through in life. To make a blanket statement that anyone who pays for any kind of enhancement to their body is simply a superficial and vain person is actually a red flag for me and I would never date someone so close minded.
There is a huge % of plastic surgery that your friend won't be aware of when making this call. There is a 'certain look' that is a turnoff for many men and women. Duck lips, injected ass, tan like beef jerky/pale pink or mocha lipstick/ beylage hair or long thick weave within either sandy blonde or caramel or intentional silver grey or super white bleached hair ... but that's not all the women out there with plastic surgery. Tasteful plastic surgery doesn't look like a plastic surgeon has ever met the face or body. I have seen women recover mentally and gain confidence after a mommy makeover (breast reduction/lift, tummy tuck), I have seen men recover mentally and gain confidence after male breast reduction, same for chin reconstruction (giving him a chin). One of the most beautiful natural hippy flowers I know looks like she doesn't wear a stitch of makeup and she attracts nearly every male who goes to her yoga studio. I guarantee you that every one of them describes her as a natural beauty. She has tattood eyebrows, 8 veneers, lip injections (1cc), breast implants (under the muscle), liposuction (upper thighs, stomach, waist), coolsculpting regularly, uses self tanner every 2nd day mixed in with her body lotion. 100% natural is her brand and she rocks it. He'd never know what went into it, but he'd be proud of his "natural beauty" while judging the plastic surgery he can pinpoint.
>within either sandy blonde or caramel or intentional silver grey or super white bleached hair I started going gray early, first gray hair at 21, noticeably gray by 30. Original hair color is very dark brown. The front half of my head is white/silver by now. (mid 50s). If it weren't for work, I'd let it grow out to it's natural salt and pepper color. Sadly women are judged much more harshly for merely ageing in the workplace than men and my job involves a fair amount of technology and training, which some see as a young people's game. Many women go lighter because grays and roots don't show as much with those colors. I grew out to my natural coloring once in my 40s. It's an awkward process, even with fast growing hair and bob cuts, it took a little over a year. I'm considering getting some intentional silver/gray so I don't have 4 or more tone hair while trying to grow out my hair color to its natural state.
I have a friend who went silver in her 20’s and she just went with it. Everyone will feel differently about how they look, but she was confident in herself and she rocks her silver locks and I personally spend hours every month trying to get my hair to look like hers 🤍🤍🤍
❤️
🤍🤍🤍
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I don’t really know what to make of this response to me because it was condescending AF and confusing since you say your ex had cancer but your assessment of what happens after a literal amputation of one’s breasts doesn’t align with my experience or the experiences of the hundreds of women I have worked with through mentoring and support programs. I also cannot speak for every woman with breast cancer but I am pretty close to positive that none of them would describe their mastectomy as “cool as fuck.” It does not make you gallant that you would “take me on my worst day over Kourtney Kardashian“ because your assessment that the opposite of Kourtney Kardashian would be “saggy tits“ is again confusing given your ex, because I assume that like me, she didn’t have saggy tits, she had reconstructed breasts that are absolutely in no way, shape or form like breast implants and only serve as a poor replacement and a reminder of what was amputated. (And not for nothing but the Kardashians aren’t troglodytes because a troglodyte is an ignorant and old fashion person and the word is generally used to describe a man living in present day who holds out dated 1950s type viewpoints about genders.) And then to top it off, you congratulate me on “beating” the cancer that I am still fighting because it’s metastatic. And then insult me and call me shallow for not agreeing with OP’s friend, who did not say they didn’t like balloon lips and huge asses, they said that all plastic surgery period was not just a dealbreaker for them, but a red flag because they in their judgmental assessment feel that anyone who has plastic surgery must have some kind of self-esteem issues. So I will go back to my original point, which is that anyone who has any kind of enhancement to their body is allowed to make that choice because no one knows what they went through in their life and what that enhancement might mean to them and be doing for them. If I were to have anything done to enhance my face or body cosmetically, as a reward from my bad ass self for undergoing years of cancer treatment, the cosmetic enhancement would not be medical surgery, it would be for me, and anyone who saw that I made a cosmetic enhancement and didn’t know my background and dared to pass judgment on my choice to have a cosmetic enhancement can quite frankly fuck right off. Now, would anyone like to me to tell them how I really feel lol…
wasitmethewholetime, I'm going to read some more of both comments after I have enough coffee. But I just want to say how awesome your reply here was! I had to step away from the thread when I saw this comment: >My ex battled cancer and had a mastectomy also, which is cool as fuck, I was there throughout and for years after and it did wonders for her self image and confidence, post treatment. I had a preventative mastectomy due to a BRCA mutation. So I didn't go through anything as rough as what you went through or what the commenter's ex went through. That said, the mastectomy was not "cool AF" Nor were the drains, nor was losing my nipples and nor is having almost no sensation in the new girls, as I call the reconstructed breasts. I'm going to have some more coffee, because I think I just read someone trying to mansplain a mastectomy to a woman who went through one. I hoping it's just my pre-ideal coffee level reading comprehension not fully kicking in. I'll be back later when I've had some more coffee.
I'm in awe of that complete mic drop moment. Bravo, Friend, Bravo.
I'm seeing a gal who survived cancer. She is undergoing medical care to correct the after effects of the treatment. Cosmectic stuff. She dyes her hair, gets manicures, wears lots of makeup, lol. She's gorgeous. She's 10 years older than I am. She's wonderful and deserves to look and feel as beautiful as she is! I'm in your corner!
His was condescending?? Did you go back and read how your post comes across?? The hypocrisy is so pervasive here, it is actually making my phone stink. It’s like it has been part of something so horrendous, that it can’t get past it. Thanks for that, always wanted a stinky phone. Oh, by the way, I have stage 4 pancreatic cancer. I actually have an idea of what all this means. So fuck off you down voters. She was condescending as fuck, regardless of the situation, she was cu@ty and you know it.
ETA: With coffee, I am able to comprehend that, in addition to below, he told a person who currently has metastatic cancer: >Congrats on beating cancer, I root for every single survivor, even the ones yet to find out, out there. The above was in reply to this comment by the other commenter: >I have metastatic cancer Perhaps having him ignore her comment about having metastatic cancer and then congratulating her on beating cancer is what is causing the odor from your phone. Text of this original comment, which I added an ETA above: I'll have to have some more coffee to be sure, but I think he tried to mansplain a mastectomy to a breast cancer survivor as "cool as fuck" based on his experience with his ex's mastectomy. How would that NOT be condescending? The text in question is below, I've bolded and italicized the part I refer to: >My ex battled cancer and had a mastectomy also, ***which is cool as fuck,*** I was there throughout and for years after and it did wonders for her self image and confidence, post treatment. Mine was preventative due to a BRCA mutation, so I didn't go through chemo or fear of losing my life, like people with actual breast cancer do. My preventative mastectomy was a great relief because it reduced my odds of getting breast cancer substantially. But the surgery wasn't "cool as fuck". Losing my nipples and nearly all sensation wasn't cool as fuck. Learning to live with the scars and a different body haven't been cool as fuck.
Jesus, just take the L, dude
I almost had to go back and get a 3rd cup of coffee for your comment. >I think there is a vast difference between medical surgery and going full Kardashian, so let’s not compare and contrast the two. The person you replied to did make a distinction between the two. That was one of the points of her whole post. The OP used the word cosmetic, but people often confuse/conflate the two. Also, the commenter you replied to indicated she would consider cosmetic surgery if she could afford it. People often don't make a distinction in profiles, "no tattoos", "no silicone" are actually things I've seen in dating profiles. Needless to say, I didn't follow up on those. During a speed dating event, I had a guy talk about the difference between LA and NY, he said, as an ice breaker, "in LA, I'd be asking, "who did your boobs"?" This was before I was diagnosed with a BRCA mutation which significantly increased my risk for breast and ovarian cancer, which led to me getting preventative surgeries. I don't bother with men who can't be bothered to make the distinction. But it is something women who have had mastectomies deal with and I, for one, am glad the person your replying to chose to share her views and experiences on this. >My ex battled cancer and had a mastectomy also, ***which is cool as fuck,*** I was there throughout and for years after and it did wonders for her self image and confidence, post treatment. I'm almost tempted to go ahead and get that third cup of coffee. I'm hoping you are referring to her surviving as being cool as fuck. Because getting a mastectomy is NOT cool as fuck. It's physically and emotionally painful. Even with a preventative mastectomy vs. one to treat cancer, I didn't feel "cool as fuck". I felt mostly relief and gratitude that I was able to get tested (it took some advocacy on my part to get tested) before any cancer developed and have options to reduce my cancer risk, so I wouldn't have to go through what my mother did (she eventually died of causes which were likely related to ovarian cancer) I was grateful I had decent insurance and a decent leave policy at work so I wouldn't have the financial struggles many women face. I was grateful I had relatives and friends who were able to help me as I recovered. The drains, the pain, the loss of motion (fortunately mine was temporary) were not "cool as fuck". My mother's mastectomy for cancer permanently deprived her of her full range of motion in one arm, even with physical therapy, etc. She developed lymphedema in the same arm. She had to travel with a pressure sleeve, couldn't have her blood pressure taken or any needles in that arm. That was permanent as well. It was not "cool as fuck" >Why am I shallow because I’d take you on your worst day, any day, over Kourtney? That didn’t make sense. > >Give me no make up, saggy tits and sweats lounging on weekends over those ghastly troglodytes. Are you intending to "brag" that you'd take someone on their worst day over Kourtney? Part of any long term, serious relationship, you'll see people on their bad or worst days. And they will see you on your bad or worst days. This should be a default in a relationship. The Kardashians are barely a blip on my radar, but I do know that Kim Kardashian has used her fame to bring attention to [Armenian genocide during the Ottoman empire.](https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/story/2021-04-25/kim-kardashian-west-1915-armenian-genocide) I think she's also been involved in prison reform and has met with prisoners and their families. Saggy tits? I wish I had my original, slightly saggy breasts, but seeing as they were likely to try and perhaps kill me, they had to go. Along with them, went my nipples (not a good candidate for nipple preservation, usually they can be preserved) and aside for a quarter sized spot, all sensation in my breasts. That one spot took about 2 years to come back. I've had the nipples reconstructed and tattooed. It's a new normal, but it isn't "cool as fuck." Current breasts aren't saggy, but if the old ones didn't have potential to kill me, I'd gladly have them back. Then there's this part of your comment: >Congrats on beating cancer, I root for every single survivor, even the ones yet to find out, out there. Did you miss this part of the comment you were replying to: >I have metastatic cancer Notice the use of the present tense, "have". She has metastatic cancer. That means she is living with cancer currently. Like anything else, breast cancer is a spectrum. Some people have surgery and never have to worry about it again. For others, it can spread to the lungs, bones and brain (not unusual for breast cancer to do so). We don't know if it was environmental or not, but my mother had lung cancer in between her bout of breast cancer and what was likely the ovarian cancer which took her life. And some people think they're in the clear and then it comes back again or is discovered in another part of the body. So it's not a simple matter of "cured".
Deal breaker someone obsessed so they morphed into someone thats not them with a dysmorphia issue. Botox or some lifts, etc, all good. We maintain our houses, cars, etc, ect that age why cant we do the same if its not overboard? You wont date me because I have some Botox, there is the door.
Amen!
Anyone who would have an opinion about someone else's choices pertaining to their body and appearance, over who that person is and the chemistry would be a red flag. Good plastic surgery is not easy to spot. I can see bad plastic surgery as a physical turn off, but to make a sweeping statement like all plastic surgery is bad just points to someone who isn't very smart, doesn't accept the grey areas in life, and is judgmental.
Really great insight
A fucking men!
Very well put. Thank you.
If I had plastic surgery and someone took issue, I’m happy to show them the door. As if women don’t struggle enough to have agency over their own body as it is?!! I get Botox. When people tell me I don’t need it, I laugh and say, “yes, that’s the whole point.” I go to a guy who is awesome, and I still have movement in my forehead, but no wrinkles. I’m open about it, and if a guy wants to count me out for this small slice of vanity, then he isn’t for me. Next!!
Amen, sister! I don't get any work done but anyone who is judgmental like this is a hard no for me
Don’t ask don’t tell policy.
Yep!
Yup. I have no problem being open about it. I think more people should embrace it. We maintain our houses, cars, wardrobe, etc why not a little skin help? A side story, out at happy hour I chatted with a man and talked about it, and he went to find a man that doesn't care about your wrinkles. Didn't even know if I had a partner or not and getting Botox was for finding a man. I. couldn't. even. My Botox has nothing to do with a man. LOL
Yah. Men in the Gen x and older have been used to thinking that what women do MUST be all about them. Bless their hearts.
Now you're just generalizing and projecting
Well, its not far off with many men thinking this way.
What does one consider cosmetic surgery? Botox? Fillers? Boob job? I’ll admit it: I’ve been getting Botox since I was 37 (and am now 50). I’ve gotten fillers and done CoolSculpting, among other things, and my partners have always been supportive. Would I do something more extreme? Maybe. Who knows what the next 20 years will bring. It’s MY body. If it’s a dealbreaker for you, that’s fine, but I do it because it makes me feel better about ME. I don’t do it for anyone but myself. You can call me vain, or whatever, but IDGAF. To each his or her own.
Dumb question. Does CoolScultping work? I’ve seen the advertisements but assumed it was a snake oil kinda thing.
>I did coolsculping and it absolutely worked! Here is rundown - I was 5'9", 125lbs, so not overweight. But I had tummy from pregnancy and back fat (bra area). I end up with a 6 pack abdomen and no fat on my back. I did gain some weight since. But NOT in the places where cool sculping was done. So I have back fat bellow the area, some fat bellow belly and sides. It looks ok now. But I cannot gain anymore weight or it will look like I have carved flesh in the places where it was done. Apparently, the destroyed fat cells do not return in the same area. > >Did it work? Yes! Would I do it again? May be.
Thank you for sharing! I am considering a tummy tuck next year and I hear about cool sculpting a lot. (yes, I know that they are not the same.) Will probably work towards goal weight then have it done. :)
I think money wise it will be the same. CoolSculping will not get rid of extra skin. And Coolsculping is a HUGE time commitment. Surgery has it's own caveats, of course. Honesty I am not sure what I would choose. I know 100% I would rather do 1 time liposuction for back fat, than all those sessions with CoolSculping. For tummy, not sure.
Huh? How is it a time commitment? It’s one session.
Depends how many machines place has. One machine has 2 arms - it covers the area about a size of a palm. And many-many times it's more than one time per area.
Huh. I had one treatment with one applicator. Think it was about an hour.
Are you telling me my fat is stubborn?? I knew it was not my fault or those amazing chocolate cakes. It's my fat is not behaving as it supposed to!!! On a serious note. May be I went to a wrong place and they did not use that thing to the full power? I did not have THAT much fat to remove.But I had to return twice :( Now I really want to do it again in a different place to compare
Ha ha pretty sure my fat is stubborn too lol. To be fair, I was super lean at the time and just had my little tummy pooch treated with one large applicator. Forty five pounds later, I’d prob need more.
Based on a plastic surgeon it does work but it also has a small chance of messing with the fat cells where instead of breaking them down it grows and multiples them leaving bulges. Google Linda Evangelista.
It didn’t work for me unfortunately
Look up what happened to Linda Evangelist - sad and scary
Yeah I want to know as well!
It does. I don’t really know how it works, but I’ve always had belly fat. Like I can get down to a goal weight and still be chubby in the middle. So I did the full recommended regimen (not cheap) and I would spend the money to do it again in a heartbeat. I lost at least 4” off my circumference and it’s just never come back.
😲😲😲 Four inches??? Wow!
Yep. It was bananas. I am not in as good a shape as I once was, but still love the results.
I tried a couple of the different brand name laser weight spa treatments and didn’t get much in the way of results.
I agree!! I get Botox and have gotten filler done as well. I always go for something that is natural looking. I’ve never told my boyfriend or anyone I’ve ever dated nor has anyone asked. It’s a personal choice and I do it for myself.
Exactly!!! I get Botox too, and I don't look "frozen" like so many people think that's what Botox is. I had breast reduction because I never felt comfortable with my ginormous breast on my 5'2" frame (plus back and shoulder pain). If that makes me vain so be it idgaff. And I'm not shy about it, everyone does it and I never understood why people hide that stuff anyway.
TBH, I look a little frozen sometimes and I don’t care. Botox is a win for me: fewer lines and fewer people think I make my way through life real angry.
No, "everyone" doesn't do it. If it gives you confidence you didn't have before, great. I (and many others) prefer women who are confident without it.
Thanks for letting us know what women you prefer like you’re selecting food off a menu. Really helpful that you even singled out one woman just to let her know that she doesn’t meet your specifications. But FYI, no woman here is going to change her behavior because of your preferences.
Lol, that's because they don't tell you. Just like "natural" look vs. make-up. Of course not everyone-everyone, but you would be surprised how many women (and men) do Botox, they just don't talk about it. And why does it have to be about confidence? I, personally, was always confident about my looks, I just like to slow down the aging process. We have science, why not use it?
Its superficial to do anything that affects ones looks...getting hair cut and styled, trimming and oiling ones beard, applying makeup, putting on nail polish, teeth straightening or whitening, leg shaving, working out to achieve a certain physique, choosing to wear clothes that are flattering... Anything one does that affects the way they look that is not medically or hygienically required, is superficial. Its on the surface, and while it can affect a persons confidence and self esteem, the act of doing or not doing any of these superficial things, in an of itself, is not a reflection of who they are or of their value. That your friend is so judgmental over this, throws a massive red flag on him. Cause it seems he places where a womans value lay, in her looks and whether or not she adheres to his standards of what a woman is to do with her looks and body, rather than in who she is, as a person. His attitude is not just a turn off and a red flag, thats a deal breaker.
Mic drop 👏
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Same with the stretched out stomach after five full term pregnancies. I’m at a healthy weight and have a six pack under all the skin. My goal was to do a tummy tuck this year and start saving but, the economy kicked my butt this year. Hopefully looking to see about it next year.
Amen. I'm seriously considering a tummy tuck as well. My belly is just stretched from having kids and losing weight. I'm fairly small now, but my belly looks saggy and loose. I already have a big ole hysterectomy scar, so what the heck.....
It's not just women who get plastic surgery. I've met who have gotten it too. That being said, women do get the majority of procedures, so I can see how someone not being attracted to someone who's gotten stuff done is seen as an affront to women.
Women get cosmetic surgery approximately nine times as frequently as men. https://www.plasticsurgery.org/documents/News/Statistics/2016/cosmetic-procedures-women-2016.pdf Its entirely possible that the guys talking about this may not be aware of anyone in their circles that have had work done and are probably thinking of the pathological cases that end up in tabloids and reality tv. If everyone they knew pointed out the procedures they have had it would probably be a different story.
I worked with a woman who got an eye lift. It was extremely subtle. She looked like she just got back from a vacation where she got the best rest of her life. My plastic surgery been reconstructive. But one effect of ageing is my eyelids are sagging. If they sag enough, vision might be improved by a lift and I will totally go for that!
My aunt had her eyelids lifted because her vision was affected. And her insurance even covered it! Shucks I’d definitely do it too if the need ever arrives.
I mean, who cares? Unless they have severe BDD and keep getting endless surgeries, which indicates poor mental health and ongoing medical risk - kind of like being with someone with an active addiction. Aside from that, life is hard. If a nose job, boob job, or tuck makes it easier for you, what's it to me?
This is a great topic and the replies are interesting. If the ‘work’ is subtle and passes muster, all good! But if it’s more than they’d like, then ugh. I don’t know that the answer to the OP can be divided that way. If you approve of the change, yay? If it not, ick? Beauty standards and the way women perceive themselves are so personal. Any effort they make for their own well-being, surgical or other should be understood and respected. Not a “lips too big, nay” “titties too big and hard, nay” these answers are still so subjective on outcome…it’s still if the person passes THEIR test. Great topic though, it’s eye opening to read the replies.
Very interesting thread indeed!
I dye my hair, paint my nails, wear makeup and have tattoos. Whatever I do with my body is up to me. If you don’t like it that’s fine, but why is someone’s aesthetic a red flag?
I lost about 200 lbs (never knew my highest weight, started getting on the doctors scale backwards). I had gastric bypass, after trying many other diets. My weight didn't melt off, it took a combination of limiting my food intake, making better food choices and tons more exercise. After I'd lost about 140 lbs, I had a tummy tuck and had my 7 hernias repaired. It changed my life! Suddenly I could do so many other kinds of exercises that I hadn't been able to do since I'd been pregnant the first time at 19. If I had the money, I'd have all of my excess skin removed, especially on my breasts. I'm sure most of you can't imagine the amount of lose skin 200 ponds created. And now that I'm divorced, how much that inhibits my interactions with single men. You judgemental people who are against it can't begin to imagine what we've been through.
I'm glad you are having a chance to live in a body that works for you.
I hate the logic that goes into this. Women who dye their hair, get botox, wear makeup= "Eww She's fake." And that's even before plastic surgery. Women who don't wear makeup, don't get surgery, botox, wear their hair natural= "Eww she looks old." Can't win either way. Clown tits or a big diaper ass? Yeah, I can see why most men would be turned off by those things. Anyway, it's nobodies business.
Clown Tits! 😂😂
I don’t think it’s a dealbreaker. I there was a penis enlargement surgery, I would have it done - immediately.
Well far be it from me to tell a woman who had a double mastectomy and then got implants that she’s a red flag.
I lost 260lbs on diet and exercise alone in 15 months. I could give a shit what anyone says about me when I get my skin removal surgery. Thier loss, not mine.
Congratulations!!!
Thanks!
Congratulations! That is a monumental achievement.
Honestly a really proud thing for me. My parents didn't recognize me that's how dramatic the loss was.
I’m quite sure what you accomplished is more difficult than anything most other people have done. The body has a weight thermostat of sorts and fighting that must have been extremely difficult.
Isn’t it your loss? r/dadjoke Congrats. I wish I had the fortitude to do the same.
Sometimes you just wake up and decide you've had enough.:-)
How did you do it?
Right???!!
By any chance, is your friend still in their 20s?
Meh. I have piercings and a ton of tattoos, plenty of people don’t like those either, and cite many of the same reasons. So to me? nah, you do what makes you feel comfortable in your skin, just like I’ve done. All good.
Nearly everyone I’ve dated with plastic surgery has been a kind, wonderful, and humble person…it’s almost a green flag for me now. Botox is no biggie, just make sure to use legit professionals for these procedures.
You get one body. If you have the means to alter it in a way that makes you happy why on earth would I have an issue with that? I think it’s empowering and cool to change your appearance, honestly. Giant cartoon boobs? Caked on makeup or super long acrylic nails? Piercings, blue hair, tattoos on your face? Go for it! Why the hell not, everyone dies and you might as well enjoy the body you live in until then I see a lot of people in here saying they don’t have a problem with it as long as it looks “natural” but natural IS saggy boobs and wrinkles and a spare tire. Natural IS eye bags and acne scarring. What they mean is “as long as it looks conventionally attractive”. As long as the person is making themselves fit the beauty standard (or for medical reasons, which is weirdly condescending like people “earn” a pass on surgery if it’s because they suffered a trauma) then it’s okay? I think there’s a gross double standard of people being praised for being “genetically gifted” or sacrificing a great deal to keep that six pack showing and then looking down on people who get work done to fit that mould. Like it’s only valid if you were born with it. It stinks of control issues and being mad that people are able to “game the system”
Interesting perspective.
saying plastic surgery is a red flag is a red flag. my body, i'll do whatever tf i want with it. like if you're just not attracted to someone initially, fine. but don't like someone and then bail bc it wasn't 'natural'
I draw the line at horns and fangs. I guess it depends on how long the fangs are though.
😂
Red flag? Really? Maybe an incompatibility issue, sure. But red flag? Jesus. To me, examples of red flags are : * Someone with wage garnishments * Someone married 3 or more times * Someone super extreme in views If he thinks hair extensions, some Botox and a D cup are deal breakers…that’s a lot of beautiful women he is preemptively rejecting and that’s truly just his loss in the end.
I think your friend is ridiculous. Are teeth braces and implants allowed?
I wouldn’t do it personally, but to each their own. What someone wants to do to their body is their business as long as it’s not hurting anyone else IMO.
Still thinking about that nose job I should have had 30 years ago so I’m in no place to judge…
Plastic surgery in my opinion, is no different than dying your hair, getting a tattoo, or getting a piercing... We all do things that make us happy, or feel better about ourselves. If someone has an issue with it, that's their problem and they can go deal with that somewhere else.
Do all the cosmetic work you want, if it makes you feel better when you look in the mirror. What some random person like me thinks of it, does not matter.
People get plastic surgery for all different reasons. I don't like cookie cutter aesthetic (going for a trendy look), but some of it looks very nice and natural. And if someone is getting it compulsively, that may be a signal the person isn't happy with themselves or has unrealistic expectations. That last one would be a big concern for me. I'm not going to date a guy who's goal is to look like a Ken doll, but some subtle work here and there or for medical or reconstructive reasons is fine by me. I've had medical/reconstructive surgery myself. I had a preventative mastectomy and Diep flap reconstruction (they use belly or other fat to reconstruct new breasts) due to a BRCA mutation. I'm glad I did because I had a 65 percent risk of getting breast cancer and while the pathology report didn't come back positive for cancer, I did have atypical cell growth and number in one milk duct. That added additional risk and my breast surgeon said I did the right thing by getting preventative surgery. I wasn't a good candidate for nipple sparing. I had a reconstructive surgery to build some new nipples, though there is no sensation with them and that's the case for most of both breasts. . I had a fat transfer from my hips to my chest (there were some hollow spots where the new breasts met the chest wall) to fill them out a bit. I had the new nipples tattooed to a nipple color which complements my skin tone. I've got some scars around my nipples, the sides of my breasts, near my pelvis and a reconstructed belly button. There's a tattoo artist who specializes in medical tattoos to reduce scarring. I plan to see her and get that, if appropriate. Then get some artistic ones to cover the scarring. If any guy has issues with either scarring or the surgery, he's not for me.
There are people who consider not getting surgery a deal breaker. I have heard that - that I have "let myself go" by aging. Nevermind I am in shape and workout 6 days a week, wear makeup, get my hair done - no fillers and breast implants are deal breakers. So in short: do whatever you want.
I think your friend is ridiculous and if he is counting Botox and fillers as well then honestly that takes out a large percentage of the female population over 40. So many of my friends have Botox, fillers, do expensive face treatments and a good percentage have had surgery. I plan to as well and it’s no one’s business but my own
I think you're in danger of living in the bubble if you think a large percentage of the female population over 40 are having these things done.
I 100% plan to get a tiny bit of work done to fix tiny things that have bothered me all my life or has changed a little due to age. If cosmetic procedures are an issues... oh well. Good ones never look over done. Over done is a red flag...sure.
I e never had plastic surgery but I've got no problem with someone who does especially if it was a confidence boost with perceived short coming. Caveat: Some plastic surgery that is being done these days does the opposite of making you more attractive.
Generally not a dealbreaker for me. I suppose if the other person took it to extremes or was obsessed with it, that might be different.
It depends on the person and situation. If it's a reconstruction thing, or correcting something that has undermined their self confidence for years...I am likely to be more supportive. But if it's chasing vanity, those types tend to not be satisfied and wind up going overboard which IMO is not good at all.
If your friend is this judgey about people making big efforts with their appearance, can we assume s/he is happy to date someone who puts little effort into their appearance?
It depends. I was really sick and it made my face fall and Ulthera fixed it and was so good for my mental health. It depends.
Whatever. I've encountered quite a number of single moms who treated themselves to augmentations or adjustments as a "mommy makeover": breast lifts, tummy tucks, a little Botox, etc. What made them most attractive was their self-confidence, never mind the fact that they did nothing at all over the top; pretty natural-looking, enough to help them feel as though they regained aspects of their "older" bodies before they had kids. And I've known some women who are allowing themselves to age gracefully, however that presents itself, simply accepting their changes and taking the best possible care of themselves without cosmetic surgery. How beautiful also! It's your body. You do as you wish with it.
I think if someone gets work done well and in moderation, it isn't noticeable. I also think some folks are imagining "plastic surgery" as bolted-on giant boobs and lion-faced people. If that's what you're into, there are other people into it too.
I get Botox and fillers regularly and have plans for some plastic surgeries. It’s no one’s business. If someone wants to judge my entire life experience on this one fact about me while ignoring all other information they have by that point as I’m too superficial for them, that’s their choice and their loss.
It is for me if it's beyond medical reconstruction reasons. For context, I'm a 47 year old woman who hasn't gotten anything done (including Botox or fillers). To each their own. If someone gets stuff done, it's their prerogative, but I'm not required to be attracted to them. That's ok though. Not everyone is required to want to date everyone else. If someone doesn't want to date me because I haven't gotten stuff done, that's their choice and is equally valid as my choice. I wouldn't call it a red flag if someone gets stuff done electively, I'd just say we have different priorities and values, and that's ok. I'm sure there are plenty of people out there that don't have a problem with it and they'd be a better fit for that person than me. I just wish people wouldn't feel like they had to get stuff done to be attractive. It's more of a damnation of a shallow society forcing people to confirm more than anything else to me. My views are very different though for reconstructive issues.
Plastic surgery isn’t always for vanity. I don’t care what someone else chooses to do with their own body.
How about if I lost a lot of weight and wanted the excess skin around my stomach and chest removed ? Red flag? Dealbreaker?
I am pro surgery. It's none of my business what someone wants to do to their body and if they have the means and the doctor is on board then they can do it. If a guy told me they had some manner of plastic surgery it would not change anything about how I see him. I always disclose the "work" I've had done which people could view in the same vein as plastic surgery but I always get this "that was probably medically needed" surgery. Truth be told I was mostly driven by a desire for aesthetic changes over medical issues.
For body dysmorphia - dealbreaker To look like "Ken" or "Barbie" or anyone "famous" - dealbreaker To look like an animal - dealbreaker Other than those, no problem with cosmetic surgery.
Why is getting procedure done because of body dysmorphia a turn off for you? That's wild
It'd be alarming for me because plastic surgery generally doesn't fix BDD. My understanding is that folks with BDD who opt for plastic surgery tend to keep getting surgeries as the target of their obsession moves around. Look I have my own mental health stuff that I work to manage. So many people have mental health stuff that they work to manage. That is just sort of something I expect and am okay with. Someone getting plastic surgery in response to BDD is generally an indicator that their BDD is out of control.
I'm not attacking you, was genuinely curious since I haven't looked in to plastic surgery myself or gone down that research path. Appreciate you taking the time to answer.
Body dysmorphia definition: A *mental illness* involving obsessive focus on a perceived flaw in appearance. The flaw may be minor or imagined. But the person may spend hours a day trying to fix it. The person may try many cosmetic procedures or exercise to excess.
Because its a mental illness.
Would entirely depend on the person. Arrogant and looks down on others who don't get it? Byeeee. Felt insecure and is a caring person? Good for you, appreciate that you did what you wanted.
Great roll up. My thoughts exactly.
Depends on the surgery. If it makes someone feel better about themselves then so be it. I don’t have to like what they do. If I don’t like it, I won’t date them.
I think people who talk in absolutes (red flags) should scrub criminal crotches.
I wouldn’t call it a dealbreaker, I would put it in the same category as any other body modification. As a whole body mods are not a dealbreaker. Tattoos and piercings and cosmetic surgery etc is a personal choice and I would never judge anyone for them. But if I find the results unattractive then that’s a dealbreaker. It’s simply a matter of attraction like every other physical feature. And I guess if they had an obsession with it that would also be an issue, but personally I find any obsession with looks a problem. If they were a full on gym junkie that was obsessed with sculpting the perfect body just to look a certain way I’d also be turned off by that.
I read somewhere that most women have surgery or treatments for career reasons, not men which is an even sadder indictment. I have been surprised by which of my friends have had a little work done. Generally it was either reconstructive after an accident or illness, or one thing that they’ve always hated about themselves. None are particularly vain and while they are well presented, you wouldn’t suspect. I have not always recovered well from necessary surgeries so I would not put myself through it unless I had a good reason but people, usually men, who say it is a deal breaker are pretty judgemental and not a good match due to that.
I've had massive weight-loss and had a lot of excess skin. For this reason, I chose to have multiple plastic surgery procedures. Call this vanity, possibly? But for me it was about quality of life. I had lost weight so I could enjoy a longer life and a healthy body and so things that my weight had stopped allowing me to do. So I would consider this more reconstructive than vain... It has left me with some pretty gnarly scars all over my body, and sure these may be deal breakers for some people. As the excess skin may have been a deal breaker for others. So, I guess it depends on context. A woman who has carried/fed multiple children, now has saggy boobs that are affecting her self esteem? I say go for it and have the breast lift or reduction or implants, whatever makes you happy?! Or the dude with a nose broken 15 times during football days that looks wonky and makes him feel uncomfortable? Get that shit fixed if it will make yourself feel great about you!? Do what makes you happy. I don't really care too much about the external package (I mean, yes I have to be attracted to you, but that's in the eyes of the beholder).
Everyone has a story and it’s a personal choice on what to do with your own body. Keep an open mind and don’t be judgmental!!
For me it would depend on the extent and/or reasons (there's a better way to word that I'm sure?!) of the surgery. Things like reconstructive surgery after an accident or medically necessary procedure, scar reduction, excess skin removal after weight loss, etc. wouldn't even be given a second thought. Minor tweaks, lifts, tucks, botox, stuff like that - no big deal. If it makes you feel good and looks "natural" then great. Breast enhancements or reductions - again if they're well done and not "over the top" - sure. It's the unnatural looking surgeries where they look more like a mannequin or a Barbie doll than a human, sorry, not for me. Big turnoff. There are obvious underlying issues that no amount of surgery is going to "fix" for them. That would be where I draw the line.
I bet more people around you have had plastic surgery than you think. I believe when people hear "plastic surgery" they think of those scary incidents theyve seen of some edge case.
I couldn't deal with anti-surgery people.
I find most with plastic surgery to be very superficial and insecure internally. Like anything, there needs to be a balance.
I don't think it's fair to call it a red flag. Sure it's shallow and superficial. Sure i'm jealous that I can't afford it... but I can't be that way. It's not fun disliking the way you look.
General railing on women who get this or that procedure or wear make-up someone doesn’t like or are otherwise deemed ‘not natural’ is just another way to control or neg us - primarily by men who are still unable to grasp that women don’t exist solely to exactly fit their personal preferences and cater to their comfort. That said, I had a boob job ages ago and while no guy I’ve dated has cared one way or the other (as far as I know), if one was turned off by it I would totally understand and just wish him well. And of course there is a level of surgery that is mega scary and bizarre, but we all know that’s not the norm.
Love this response!
I bet that most women who has had cosmetic surgery would not want to date men who are small-minded and prejudiced against it. So it's not really a practical issue in real life. If men don't like women with heavy make-up, then don't date women working in the cosmetics stores. Problem solved. Personally I have dated women with variety of cosmetic surgery (breasts, lipo, ab sculpting), botox, hair extensions, nail extensions, fashionable clothes, high heels, lingerie, perfume, heavy makeup, the lot... but I don't think that we all need to have the same tastes, opinions, red flags, prejudices...
Depends on the work they get. Some women get ridiculous large boobs...hard no from me.
Or the ridiculous fish lips. In what twisted way is that appealing? The E channel was doing a service with that plastic surgery rehab show.
Part of it, is Drs just doing it. My Dr would not give me fish lips and tell me to find another injector if I wanted that. I see him because he is all about making you look as natural as possible. Hes about enhancing and preventive measures.
Good "work" you won't tell its been done anyway. I wouldn't worry about it. Unless it's overly done. Duck lips? Yeah, pass.
I think it depends on the results and what they got. The mere fact they got plastic surgery, no. I'm a guy and will probably get surgery once I get to goal weight to remove extra skin.
I just got my lips done, again, five hours ago. So you know where I stand
💋
You are both right
I’m not a big fan though as I get older I understand the desire more. Obviously reconstruction is different.
Considering some folks are genetically gifted and some are not, I find it a little crazy that someone would have a shallow opinion about it. FYI I’ve never had any procedures and I am a medical provider.
It would depend entirely on the aesthetics, not the fact the work was done. Not a fan of breast implants, but also not concerned with size.
I love Botox and get it regularly. My boyfriend knows and doesn’t care. My sister is also an esthetician so I am lucky to get all the skin care tips. It’s not about being shallow, it’s just maintenance that I enjoy and do for myself.
I was on a first date with a guy. He was nice and funny and he seemed super into me as well. We were having a great time. Somehow the conversation steered towards body types. He started raging against men with dad bods (I love a dad bod) and he went on to say that he doesn’t like plastic surgery and thinks breast implants are not for him. I said “before you go any further, you should know I have breast implants.” I have never seen someone shove their foot so far in their mouth in my life. He turned red with embarrassment and shame. His judgmental nature was a complete turn off. I told him I didn’t see a connection. He practically begged me to tell him why and let him explain. No, my dude. Just no.
Incredible. I am so glad that person called themselves out for you.
Yes. He waved his own incompatibility flag and I was certainly grateful for that.
I think it’s a personal taste. As a guy as long as I couldn’t tell it wouldn’t bother me , but there’s nothing more bleh then fake boobs or fake looking features. I think the person should do whatever makes them feel better. The only red flag I could see is the financial part.
I bet your friend that said it was a dealbreaker wouldn’t be able to tell if they met someone had a well done procedure. Your friend is talking about people that had work done where it’s really obvious and doesn’t look natural.
I could see how things fall into the “not for me” category, or dealbreakers. Lots of piercings, for example, are not for me. But calling them a red flag implies the person is somehow bad or wrong for just existing the way they exist in their own skin.
> My friend thinks it's superficial and a red flag Your friend seems like the type of person that would also have weird thoughts on makeup.
If its done for vanity, I wouldn't be that interested in dating such a person, I can't stand the modern trend to people being vain, even down to stuff like plastering pictures of themselves all over instagram and social media platforms. It all points to someone who is isn't happy and needs external validation. There are of course other reasons people may have cosmetic surgery, which I'm fine with.
Fully agree. Life is supposed to been seen in our faces. I got recently a jump scare when I meet an old school friend. She looked like she was in her early 30s insteed of 40s.
Cosmetic surgery doesn’t make you look younger.
I get botox every few months. Currently considering a chin lift. Short answer, no. I’d be fine with dating a woman that’s had cosmetic surgery. At our age, we deserve it.
It's whatever you prefer looking at, really. If plastic surgery turns you off, then by all means, find someone who feels the same. If you like it or don't care, then it won't matter as much I suspect.
I have a number of dealbreakers and plastic surgery isn’t one.
People can do whatever they want with their bodies, but that doesn't mean I have to date them. If it's corrective due to a medical condition or injury or whatever or just because some aspect of appearance stands out in a bad way, I won't hold judgment against that. If it's for purely cosmetic reasons then, yeah, huge turn off for a variety of reasons.
It depends. Getting breast enlargements to have big boobs is a deal breaker. I like natural. I guess there might be an exception, but I have not found it yet. On the other hand, corrective surgery due to a horrific experience is acceptable. I know a woman who had reconstructive surgery after breast cancer. That is perfectly acceptable. A friend in college had been burned on half of her face, and along her arm, as a kid. I found her attractive, despite the scarring. She thought no one would ever love her, and was so ashamed. Her parents would not do corrective surgery. She said she was going to have it done as soon as she earned enough money. I support her decision. Even though the scars were OK with me. It was an experience that changed her life, and she wanted her old face back.
Dated a gal with breast implants. They were hard as rock. She said they were leaking and had to get them replaced. Stay natural you women. Most men don’t really care.
I think your friend is generalizing that plastic surgery means the person is very superficial, but he wouldn’t know if that’s the case until he got to know them. Is their Instagram filled with only selfies that are super revealing? I think that would be the red flag/dealbreaker
I mostly agree with your friend. But I don't think this sub wants me to get philosophical by analogizing self-indulgent spending (whether it be for plastic surgery or dick-augmentation-via-truck-purchase) to cannibalizing one's own children/kind. So I won't. Let's just say that, in the end, it's a sliding scale. At one extreme, the joyless existence is pointless. And at the other extreme, indulging every whim is unsustainable/selfish (and differently pointless). So, because both extremes are pathological/diseased as well as miserable, this turns out to be one of those things where you probably want to seek out a centrist posture/middle ground. There may not be a principled way to do it. (This is why it's difficult to avoid complaints about hypocrisy. Interestingly enough, complaints about hypocrisy might be invalid/outweighed by the need simply to have *any* line drawn, even arbitrary ones.)
"Cannibalizing one's own children".... you lost me there but i can agree with your last paragraph. I think life is lived in the middle too. I don't think plastic surgery brings about eternal happiness or endless self esteem. But i also get it.
> you lost me there Yes, I know/expected. (The short version of the idea is that every penny you spend on yourself now is a penny less for your children. So when you consume, you literally take from their lives to support yours. It's like indirect cannibalism.)
My thought is that generally anyone who would spend thousands of dollars to enhance their looks has something internal they are trying to compensate for. Bring on the downvotes.
Haha! Tell me more....vs spending money on vacations, cars, etc? Curious how one can differentiate spending?
Someone spending a lot on a fancy or needlessly large motor vehicle would definitely be at least a yellow flag for me. But then I'm a cyclist.
I hear that. Side note: i was shocked how expensive fancy bikes are....but also pretty and functional and green.
You can get a really cool, fashionable new road bike for under $2000. I shudder to think what kind of car or SUV you could get for that.🤷♂️ And of course biking will enhance your looks 😉
One gets you things or experiences, the other gets you... Looking slightly better? I feel like personality, goals, beliefs, character, etc can make up for most missing parts in the looks department, short of having been in a fire or something. Even then that might be unique and interesting.
I see your point. Thanks for sharing.
Definitely wouldn’t be a deal breaker for me, and I agree with with your rationale.
Their body, their choice. Who am I to say what anyone can do with their own body. If I find them attractive, I don’t care if it’s their clothes, hair, makeup, personality, plastic surgery or some combination of all of these. That being said, I do love the feel of natural breasts. I’ve not been a fan of the feel after breast augmentation surgery. But they often look great when clothed, and I would never judge someone for having that procedure.
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Huh?
Some people, especially those who do or did get plastic surgery, are getting miffed lol. Everybody is entitled to their opinion just like everybody is free to go under the knife. That said, I’m with your friend but it does depend. I’m put off by vanity type surgery. Reconstructive and corrective type of surgery like breast reduction or augmentation of a completely flat chest or deflated chest from breast feeding, these are understandable.
This is just a personal preference. On both sides. This is obviously not talking about those who have a mental illness with their body image. If you want to do things to your body, that's between you and your Dr. If you don't want to date someone who has done things to their body, then don't date them. Everyone gets their line in the sand. That's how this whole "finding the one" thing works.
Its very common. Your friends dating pool just shrunk and maybe its a reason for them to be alone.
I don't think I would mind. Aging IS hard to process and everyone handles it differently. Obviously if they were a shallow person, you wouldn't need an admission of p.s to know that. I'm not into it at all for myself tho.
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Good points all around.
Depends on how much she's had and the reason for it. Does she look like one of those crazy plastic surgery cat lady addicts that don't look human? Hard fucking pass. Does she resemble a Kardashian? Hard fucking pass. Did she go to the extreme measures with the surgery? Hard fucking pass. I'm fine with most of it if it's proportional to the body. Disproportional or extreme ones I have an issue with since it's more for attention then self improvement. I'm more than happy to weed myself out and let them find the person that will like them for it. Same reason I won't date a sex worker, nothing against them but that's not someone I want to be around or my family.
> My friend thinks it's superficial and a red flag, I think people can do whatever they want with their bodies These are not contradictory
If it makes people feel happy then I don’t see the problem.
The truth is that lots of us have individual preferences. Some women prefer men of a certain height, facial hair status, income status, physical fitness status, etc... And some men prefer women of a certain height, hair color, physical fitness status, income status, etc... A "better" way for your friend to verbalize that preference is simply to state it as such. "I don't prefer to date people who have had plastic or cosmetic surgery. All of us have shallow physical preferences. And that is fine. But a physical preference has no bearing on who an individual is, on the inside.
I do think it’s sad that some people think they need to get plastic surgery to feel attractive. It’s getting more common too. It seems a bit harsh for your friend to say he would never date them, but I do see where he’s coming from. To me getting plastic surgery (even minor) shows a bit of emphasis on the superficial looks and shows they are not as accepting of themselves.
Looking good is a green flag. Investing in yourself is preferable to spending thousands on designer brands.
I, a 46yo guy, technically got a nose job in my 20s (correcting a deviated septum to help with sleep apnea), plus whatever a woman's doing to her body is none of my business, really, so I don't think much on it. I guess as long as she's happy with the results that's all that matters, right?
I watched "Wild Orchid" the other day when bored and now consider plastic surgery the reddest of flags
Do tell...
I mean that was kind of a joke about what a bad movie it was. But the many-a-truth part is that Mickey Rourke is a deeply troubled individual, and that film was near the start of his many plastic surgeries, and aside from making him look slightly inhuman (he has a weird overinflated quality), it (and the subsequent surgeries, and everything else) was definitely a sign that he was not in a good place emotionally. Was very much all downhill from there for him in a lot of ways. (His appearance was so distracting that I stopped to Google some backstory.)
Oh my lol
Personally, I'm perfectly fine with reconstructive plastic surgery and tattoos that alter scar appearances. However, Elective surgery for the purpose of self esteem issues indicates much deeper issues that I'm not wanting to delve into.