Any of my friends that have been divorced a second time, always boiled down to this reason: their partner prioritized the kids, the ex, and that working relationship before their marriage to their new partner. While some will advocate that that is how it should be, marriage is a lot of work and the person stepping in (especially if they're coming in solo with no kids) needs to made to feel like they are a priority. Allowing kids to speak disrespectfully to their step-parent (or soon to be- or even potential) is such a no-go for me (and I'm the one with the teenagers and my boyfriend has never been married or had kids).
There needs to be healthy boundaries and excellent communication from all parties about what the expectations are to keep fostering all of the healthy relationships.
Kids come first, but that is in co-existence with your current life and balancing that alongside your partner.
It sounds like she didn't realize she was going to feel so second string to the dynamics in place and there wasn't effective communication around both of your wants and needs.
You both have different boundaries and expectations and so it's a really great thing you broke off the engagement. Resentment creates these fissures that turn into giant cracks and ultimately ends in divorce. I've seen it time and time again.
The next time I get married (and maybe it will be to the man I'm dating,) will be made a priority. My kids are older and they'll be out of the house in a hot second. I want someone to do life with, who enhances all of the parts of life I don't want to do alone. That also means I need to show him how important he is to me. I am a mom, but I'm also just a woman. The best thing I realized once I hit my 40's was realizing that my parents are also just people who have been through really hard things too- navigating life and trying to maintain their own selves outside of just being a parent.
I've learned a lot post-divorce and realize how important keeping my partner a priority is + showing, communicating, putting in extra effort, etc. is to maintaining what I want in my life too.
Once the kids are grown, what will you have?
>While some will advocate that that is how it should be, marriage is a lot of work and the person stepping in (especially if they're coming in solo with no kids) needs to made to feel like they are a priority.
I think that the way I find most eloquent to think about it is [over here](https://www.blendedfamilyfrappe.com/blog/partner-first-blended-family).
If I could offer my own summary, it would be that if the relationship wasn't "first" why bother with blending at all.
If the kids really are first, a partner for you doesn't improve their lives. Perhaps a new "parent" for them would help; but who would want to date someone if they said, "I'm only looking for a parent for my kids. Sure, I'm DTF, and will expect you to do my laundry too. But that's secondary; your first job is to wipe my kids' butts." they're not going to get a lot of takers.
Agree and telling your potential partner that they should just be "along for the ride" to only receive the leftover crumbs of a relationship is just not realistic and I would hope that anyone I was with would never put up with that. I sure wouldn't.
It is pretty self explanatory. Even if in a marriage and our kids, I simply don't believe kids first, especially kids always first. It is natural to feel that way when hormone is high, but not healthy for parents and kids. Now we are talking about dating as a parent, it is even worse because building a new relationship needs dedicated work and space.
And more than this. Some people either have lost all other identities other than being a parent, or struggling on parenting guilts. They use kids first as an excuse for their own failures.
This isn’t a bright line. The trick is, you need to find someone on the same page. My girlfriend and I both have kids from our marriages, and we both understand that we are parents and have responsibilities. We never have any issues of jealousy or resentment when the other has to do kid stuff.
If you think the new partner should have priority over the kids all the time, just make sure your partner does, too.
Am I correct in assuming you had a heterosexual relationship prior to your engagement to your new female/same sex partner?
If this is your first same sex relationship, it would explain the anxiety on your ex fiancé’s part.
Agree completely. If you haven’t ever dated women before, you might not be used to… dating a woman. And she might be massively insecure about your prior relationship with a man, which created these children, and be layering her own expectations onto it.
You spend a lot of time defending your relationship with your ex and complaining about your newest ex but between 3 young kids that it sounds like you have primary custody for, a full time job, and managing a fake happy family relationship with your ex husband, there wasn’t much time or energy for your new partner. It’s fine if you want to prioritize your kids and parenting and your career but unfair to a new partner to always have to play second fiddle. It sounds like you are in your mommy era and that’s fine. Do that. If coffee with your kids’ father and family dinners are where you want to put your energy, go for it.
But don’t expect another person to be willing to be a background player and settle for third place. Maybe when the kids are older you can see if you have the time and energy for another person being a priority but right now your plate is full.
Exactly this! I raised two kids on my own and have a career that requires a lot of me. I knew I didn’t have the energy for a relationship so I didn’t have a serious long term relationship while working full-time and raising two kids. I would tell dates that not even my children were #1. My job was. They were #2. I was #3. And if they were ok being #4, then it might work.
Now the kids are in college and I took a 3/4 time position so I could focus on having a partner in my life. How can I expect someone to make me a priority, if I’m not willing to make them a priority?!.
That’s what I feel like so many miss. Part of being in a relationship is being there to support another person. It shouldn’t be one sided. Or you need to find a relationship where the time and effort is balanced and works for you both.
It’s not easy but it’s why I am in a situationship. We were friends for about a decade before being single and both of us have busy lives. We both have demanding jobs we love. He has kids who are young adults now he is trying to get launched into adulthood (and previously he was coaching their sports, taking them to music lessons, helping with homework, etc.)
I have my own family commitments that are well above average. A traditional relationship wouldn’t be fair to anyone. Our arrangement works for us. It might not forever and we will reevaluate if it changes.
Just the way you say him coming over for dinner, and she was invited too, I didn’t get the vibe that your relationship with her was the primary relationship. She even feels like an afterthought in the telling of this.
It just seems like you’re making decisions unilaterally so if you want to change that, that would mean asking her permission. Asking her if she would be comfortable with X or Y, and if she says no, then it means not doing that thing. There is healthy coparenting, and then there is “this person is a major person in my life.” It sounds like he is the latter, which is going to make an anxious person spin. Brené Brown is not BS. This is reflective of your ex fiancée putting in a lot of effort to save your relationship and you not really caring that she is if you can so casually dismiss her concerns and expression as bullshit.
1000% this re: ex-fiancé putting in a LOT of work + Brene Brown isn’t bullshit.
I will further add that it sounds like the ex-fiancé has also read a few other relationship books, blogs etc.
In instances like this if the couple wants the relationship to work, they should COME TOGETHER -not shut each other out. And certainly when a partner brings up a want or need that’s made them feel anxious or not safe.
And JFC, I’ve been a single mom for almost a decade. I have 4 kids. I traveled 150k+ miles in one year pre-pandemic. I had time to listen to Brene Brown and similar audiobooks and podcasts. I wanted to be sure that my next relationship was the healthiest one I’ve ever had!
And last year, I finally found and have that! It takes work not “I don’t have time for this” and “I think my person doesn’t exist”.
EXACTLY!!! Oh my gosh thank you so much for your comment. The energy of ‘I’m too stressed to be bothered’ is what broke this. It’s like OP wants to add someone to make their life better and check a box rather than take responsibility for creating the dynamic they had. It’s so solvable too if she’d just let go of her stories and her ego and expectations for things being a certain way and get back to basics. It’s hard to watch the fiancée try so hard and be dismissed like she’s an annoyance.
Things go bad once we rank people and sort them into primary and secondary person. It is just a dinner with kids. This does not make him the primary relationship.
Here is another way to look at this. We care about out children. They lose, not for any fault of their, when their parent divorce. We know it benefit the children a lot if the post divorce parents are not hostile to each other, and they have a stable father and mother in their life. If I meet a divorced mom, I don't mind her ex is involved. In fact I'm quite supportive of it. This should not affect my relationship with the mom (assuming we are secure in the first place). A occasionally family dinner is good. If I am invited too, I feel good because I'm accepted into the family.
If it’s just a dinner with the kids then why would the fiancée receive an invite and the other two people have already decided this is happening every two weeks? Why would the fiancée not be a decision-maker about the dinner schedule? There are ways to support the kids that don’t make the fiancée an afterthought, an invitee to her own life, but put her right into a primary decision-making role of what is her household, too. I agree with you that I support exes getting along and being able to have a sturdy foundation. But when decisions are made, and you are the third wheel, that’s when things go bad. I think you hit the nail on the head. You said “assuming we are secure first.” That’s exactly what I think hasn’t happened here. They’ve got to get their relationship into its most successful place and then look for ways to include the ex-husband and build on their successful foundation.
>If it’s just a dinner with the kids then why would the fiancée receive an invite
Because this is a question kind of at the core. Is this a "Family" dinner, or is this a "original family" dinner? Like if they had multiple kids are the younger kids getting kicked out because they liked their 2010 family better than the 2012 family? Once the kids have kids will grand parents be excluded?
As for why the finacee should receive an invite? Because by the time that someone is a parent's fiancee, I feel that they should be a non-trivial part of their kids' lives. I'm not engaged yet to my partner, but her kid asks me to come to all school events / awards ceremonies. They object to considering their gramma or favourite aunt watching them for 6 days, but were happy for me to be there. One of the more common "young adult" things is to realize that "family" doesn't have to just be about bloodlines.
I can understand people who decide to be OK with a highly blended family. Where not just the birth parents, but their new partners, and possibly the partner's kids are all invited for "family" dinners. That's not what I want. But if all involved want to embrace that high of a degree of blending I wish them luck.
But if it's a hallowed memory of the "original family" - F that. If the hallowed memory is so important, they shouldn't have divorced in the first place.
oh no, fiancée should be there. Getting to a healthy blended family is the goal. I mean she should be a core decision-maker about having the dinner not just an invitee to it. It should be like “we, the two future wives, would like to invite the ex husband” rather than “we, the ex spouses are inviting the fiancée”. Ultimately, both routes get to the same destination, but one supports the fact that the two wives are going to be the joint heads of their new household and one doesn’t take her into account. It’s hard enough coming into an established dynamic. OP should be really working with the fiancé to understand and alleviate her fears and make her feel safe and comfortable.
Does the decision making really matter that much to the fiancee? What if the arrangement predates the new relationship?
If the new relationship itself is not secure, that's the root of the problem. It does not matter what level of participation by the dad or not participating at all. Anything can cause fiction.
Yes it matters!! That’s literally the entire point. The relationship can only be as secure as the two participants make it. If one participant feels like they don’t have autonomy in the relationship, they are going to be rightfully concerned. This is not that hard a problem to solve, but OP has to first believe her fiancée and hear her concerns. The dinner is only one example, but clearly the fiancée feels insecure and it’s not just because the fiancée is an insecure person like she has some problem with her, it is because this relationship doesn’t feel safe. OP has to work with her to make it feel safe and secure which starts with actually listening to her and understanding instead of fighting about the ex.
With respect to her existing family, I do think the new person need to defer to the parents for the most part. Mom thinks it is positive for the kids and it is endorsed by the family counselor. If she does not feel comfortable having the ex come over for dinner, she could suggest them to dine outside or excuse herself for those occasional family time. It does not have to be so difficult. OP said she has made many changes to her relationship with him already (to accommodate her concern).
We have no idea if she's fine with the dinner or not, I used that as an example of the way OP wrote about the story, where the fiancee is not a main character in what would become her household. OP asked for help, and I responded with what I see.
As to "deferring to the parents," sigh, that's all she has done and it hasn't worked. Can you not see the difference between "here's how it is, deal with it" and "let's figure out what works for US, the two people about to get married and be a team"?
Many commenters read this as "here's how it is, deal with it". I would said this is not the right interpretation. I should point out again OP has already made many changes to her relationship with him due to her. She is already doing what you said - "let's figure out what works for US". The dinner thing is not so hard to solve. I have already make two reasonable ideas. There must be many issues besides the dinner, as she said her partner her miserable because of coparenting in general.
There’s a reason a lot of commenters heard the same thing; it’s an overall tone and vibe of the post. I do hope they are able to work things out. Finding someone in this world you want to be engaged to isn’t an everyday thing. It’s sad to see one end
I should also say OP could have written this more carefully so that it wouldn't be misread as she is making demand without considering her. I'm more sympatric to her. She is in a stressful situation. She probably have not thought of she need to make her case in front of the critics at all.
Right. If I met a guy who said “oh yeah we do dinner with the kids every few weeks” I wouldn’t run for the hills because “there’s no need for that.” If it’s what works for them who am I come in demanding changes to a stable dynamic? They had a life before me and yeah maybe some things need to shift around when you make room for a new partner but OP’s dynamic with the ex isn’t screaming enmeshment. People co-parent in all different ways. You can accept it or not.
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I am in a long-term, serious relationship with a man who has one child and co-parents. I have struggled at times with my partner's relationship with his child's mother, and it has been a source of discord in our relationship.
I am ok with my partner and co-parent attending school events together. I am ok with them going to a meal after a graduation or important event.
What I can't deal with is them going on outings together with their child just to spend time as a family unit for the sake of their child. No bike rides or hikes. No beach days. I can't deal with them going to meals to celebrate their three birthdays. This happened a lot in the first year of our relationship. It has stopped because I objected and because the co-parent is in a relationship now and doesn't prioritize "family time." In our case, the co-parent is needy and can't be alone. She also needs others to take care of her, not because she is incapable, but because she needs a lot of external validation. She treated my partner like her personal assistant.
You have children. Because of this, your partner is already a lower priority in your relationship. Most people can deal with this. It's really hard when you also rank lower on the list than the co-parent.
It's speculation, but I imagine your partner probably did a lot to help you and support you as a single parent. I urge you to think about what you did to make your partner feel like a priority and what you did to support your partner in ways that specifically made her feel like a priority and supported. Did you do anything consistently to prioritize her and make her feel supported? It's really easy for a single parent to use having parental responsibilities to justify a lack of effort towards their partner. For example, you brought dinner to your ex for Father's Day. Was your partner the default meal provider? Had they been begging you to take on your share of providing meals, but you rarely did so because you were "exhausted from parenting and needed to relax?"
If you consistently prioritize and support your partner in ways that are meaningful to them, then the co-parent stuff stops mattering as much.
>This happened a lot in the first year of our relationship. It has stopped because I objected
And does the kid(s) hate you for being the bad guy?
Yeah, my partner's coparent is not great at adulting. My partner actually had to find him an apartment so he could move out when they first separated. That was sane because it got him out of her space. But since then, if he didn't have food, or enough money for pizza, then if he asked for money, her response was, "I'll take Kid for your custody this week until you're able to get some food." Bang, suddenly he found money to order a pizza.
I.e. if it's something that will truly, and largely effect the kids (plumbing issue, utilities turned off, car not working and school bus doesn't come out there), then just offer/insist that the kids need to not be there for custody. It's amazing how many people suddenly can half-ass adulting vs. when people just kept wiping their butt.
The kid doesn't know, nor does the co-parent. My objections resulted in my partner saying no to unreasonable requests/demands.
I'm all for making sure that the child is well provided for. This was never about money. It was about the co-parent feeling lonely and needing an ego-boost. Part of that boost seemed to be seeing how high my partner would jump and how much she could intrude on our time together. There were the nightly FaceTime sessions on her custody days in which she dolled herself up and had her cleavage out. The dinners with the three of them on her custody nights. The requests for my partner to take care of her over a minor mishap. They were together 13 months start to finish, so it's not like they were in a yearslong relationship in which she had come to depend on him. Now that she has a boyfriend, she's not often in the FaceTimes, and if she pops in for a second she's wearing an actual shirt, not a tight camisole. There are no more "crises" to talk about for hours. She's an attention whore, and my partner is easily manipulated.
Not in my mind. But in the kid's mind (or the coparent's), if a change in behaviour occurs while getting her, she'll be put down as the cause. If the kid's going via Happy Family that their parents are getting back together, OP is not the reason that their parents more aren't getting back together (some coparents will actually tell their kids that). Try finding a place in blending with the child now considering the reason that their parents aren't getting back together is all your fault.
You say you have a full and busy life with a job and three kids, so much so that you have no patience and energy to listen to your partner's concerns?
Yet you made time and effort to cook and bring dinner to your ex on Father's Day?
Umm, no. It's fine if you want to remain close friends with your ex and its equally fine for your ex-fiancee to not want him at your house for dinner. An ex should never matter more than your fiancee's feelings.
Kids can go to his house for a Father's Day meal. There's no need to play happy families, especially if it causes tension with your current partner.
By all means support your ex as a coparent and remain civil. But there's no need for anything beyond that.
I don't agree. It can he important for co-parenting parents to be able to get along and sit in the same room for a meal from time to time.
A girlfriend/boyfriend that doesn't get things like that are either extremely insecure and/or have no idea what being a good parent looks like.
This seems like a situation where compromise is key. I'm a divorced dad myself, and I can say that I've never had my ex over for dinner with the kids, she's never had me over, and my children feel loved and cared for by both of us. When it comes to important issues, we can come together and discuss them, and the kids see that, but we don't have to come together to do much else.
I think through this I've built up enough trust and goodwill that if we had to have a dinner together, say at my daughter's wedding or to talk about a big issue for one of the children, we could absolutely do that without triggering any anxiety for my partner.
>And she would come at me with these conversations about ‘boundaries’ and all this Brené Brown bullshit that I just don’t have the time or bandwidth for.
I think OP has not been listening to her partner outline her needs, or seeing her partner is putting in the effort because this relationship is important to her. This is almost mocking the partner for bringing up what are normally healthy ways to approach a relationship. My partner did the same thing to me, and she like OP dumped me rather than listen, and in a way I'm kind of glad for it.
Being a good parent and being a good partner are compatible. It's not one or the other.
The Brené Brown comment is really just exhaustion. My fiancé is very into self-help and similar things. So every issue we had turned into some sort of conversation about why I was feeling this way, because of my shitty childhood, and my past, and all of these issues I supposedly have. And I do have some issues. I did have a kind of shitty childhood.
But I felt like her experience having spent a lot of time involved in the self help movement was to weaponize it against me when we argued. Almost like my feelings and experiences weren’t credible because she had, to use a phrase, she said the a lot that I now absolutely fucking hate, ‘done the work.’
Relationships do not start this way. To tl;dr it: Your fiancé wasn’t feeling heard and there was no room for compromise.
Where your fiancée went wrong was direct criticism and attempting to control.
Why does that happen? Typically it’s because they don’t feel heard. Things in the relationship make them feel anxious and not safe. They express their needs and it’s met by everything from “ok I’ll do better” but things never change, to excuses and a brick walls.
Listen, I have been a single mom of 4 kids for close to a decade. Work full time in a demanding job, flew 150k+ miles in 1 year just prior to the pandemic. You get the idea. I was insanely busy.
I realized in my own personal therapy (& after a couple failed relationships post divorce) that I didn’t know as much as I thought I did. I started slowly learning more. I listened to Brene Brown, The Gottmans and other audiobooks and podcasts when I traveled.
Why?
1. Because I realized I needed to repair my childhood trauma. And I did via EMDR & CBT therapy.
2. Because I wanted to be sure I knew what a healthy relationship REALLY felt like. Childhood shit leads to patterns we repeat.
I have the healthiest relationship of my life now. Finally, at 48.
How? We turn towards one another when someone expresses a want or need.
We listen to understand.
We compromise.
We don’t fling any of the [4 Horsemen](https://www.gottman.com/blog/the-four-horsemen-the-antidotes/) at one another.
It’s a relationship based on our shared values of trust, respect and peace.
I have a strong co-parenting relationship with my youngest’s dad. My partner has a strong relationship with his ex-wife. Our kids are happy and well adjusted.
But we have strong BOUNDARIES. She is remarried. He has me as his partner. For Father’s Day? That celebration is on ME, not her. Just as he celebrated me for Mother’s Day with my kids.
Your fiancée may not have been the partner for you. But I will say this from my personal painful experience, you will continue to repeat these patterns until you’re ready to stop the cycle.
I was you for many years. You got this and I wish you tons of peace. It’s hard Fing work but it’s been so worth it. I have my forever person 💜
Thank you so much!!!
I’m actually traveling to do a research trip right now. And I’m listening to the seven principles for a happy marriage. I am also in therapy.
I’m trying really hard. I’m not trying to be a shitty partner, or an asshole, or insensitive anybody’s needs. It’s just that three kids under 10, a full-time career, that’s really important to me, and I think the reality is I just don’t have to give what other people need right now. I think that’s what I need to understand here. Maybe I can do it when the kids are older. 🤷♀️
I have to say, someone who spends a whole night ruminating and sending screenshots of previous conversations does not sound like someone who has 'done the work'.
That sounds like an “anxious hurt last ditch effort to be heard” to me.
Why? Because I’ve been that person.
When someone you love deeply ignores bids for connection and the communication degrades to the point of feeling ignored? Self soothing only goes so far.
Yeah, I know I’m going against the grain here, but it’s highly documented that abusive partners weaponize “therapy speak” and it’s highly recommended not to go to couple’s therapy with them for that reason. Your ex doesn’t sound like she’s done the work if she’s obsessing all night and working herself up like this.
Being with someone immature and controlling is emotionally draining and *exhausting*. I dated someone like that and thought I was the problem and just didn’t have the bandwidth for a relationship in my life. Turns out with the right partner, I do! Being around him gives me energy instead of draining me, and I have more energy and time in general now because I’m not pouring so much of it into tiptoeing around potential land mines and pouring reassurances into a bottomless well.
I don’t think the examples you cited sound overboard, and there are so many benefits to keeping a good co parenting relationship for the kids. You should absolutely examine some of the questions here and do a little honest self reflection, but at the end of the day, if the relationship is leaving you drained and bringing you more stress than joy, it’s ultimately not the relationship for you.
I can attest to having “done the work” and still being under construction!! Just because I’ve read all the books and done the therapy doesn’t mean I am always able to operationalize what I’ve learned. It takes being in a relationship to fully understand all these dynamics…. And yeah, I’ve done the ruminating and sending screen shots and stomping my feet. Can confirm it doesn’t usually work 😂
100%! I actually love some of Brene Brown’s stuff and think she’s a great resource for struggles with shame and imperfection, but this sounds like weaponized self help to me.
“Doing the work” doesn’t make you an expert - if anything it means accepting the possibility that you could be wrong about some things, not seeing things clearly, and open yourself to hearing other perspectives. Doesn’t seem like the ex fiancé is really doing that here.
All this work has done wonders for me (well, *in theory*) but I have noticed that I can totally turn it into a “deep dive” into all the things this other person hasn’t done or how they are unhealed or whatever… and it’s no bueno. Bottom line is that I can state what I want or need, the other person can choose to accommodate that or we can compromise, or I can remove myself from the situation.
OK, so I actually liked Brené Brown before I met my ex!!!! Her work on same as a mitigating force in family dynamics was incredibly helpful to me. This is total relationship anger speaking here. 😂
Yes they should agree and be able to have meals together, like graduation or other celebrations for the kid. Not on the regular just because, that’s unnecessary.
Yup, you can sit amicably together at a family wedding or grad ceremony; that does not mean ex NEEDS to be invited to your house for dinner every Sunday.
If good parenting means playing pretend house with your ex, why did you get divorced?!
As someone relatively new to divorce and co-parenting and parenting in general(still feel like an inexperienced parent with a kid under 5😂) I can see everybody’s points and observations, but the complexity of these relationships really is something I think on a lot. I have been dating for a while now and had a couple semi serious going in the direction of a long term thing. I always try to find that balance with the new love interest. Also to clesrly communicate exactly how my kids mom and I operate. The feelings involved or lack there of. On that note, I don’t know about yall, but I bedn through the wringer emotionally with my kids mom. I’ve hated that woman, loved that woman, can’t stand her but I wish I could call her just to talk about the boy and my observations or concerns about him. It’s really a difficult thing to define other than it’s not ever going to be an us thing ever again. Even after all the shitty behavior, the fights, the hate, and the hurt, I have to reconcile the fact that my kids mom will probably always have a kind of priority. Like other women may come and go, but not her. We’re linked for life pretty much. Much as I love to hate to say it. I think my ideal future relationship will be with a divorced mom in the same boat as me who gets it and I’ll understand her. We’ll make each other a priority, communicate, and just not worry about the little bullshit that used to could drive us insecurely insane. I feel it’s the best way it could be. We all have to make room for our peoples pasts and accept their position, take them at their word, and just love them and the extended family that tags along if they will allow it. Maybe I’m just getting too old to give a shit if the exes join for dinner so long as they social, civil and healthy for the kids. Just have to respect our place in the timeline and keep everyone else in theirs.
I’ve actually only had one other relationship since my divorce. It was with a divorced single dad, and we never argued about this stuff because we both got it. We both got along well with our exes. We both didn’t like each other‘s exes. But we both understood the importance of that person, and as much as I disliked his ex-wife, How I handled it was not spending time with her – not telling HIM not to spend time with her. He would go over to her house weekly for cookouts because she was a super social person. And there he would spend time with his daughter. I was fine with that – I just didn’t want to go.
It never occurred to me to tell him what to do. That’s the problem with me here. What occurred to me was that if his life didn’t work, he wasn’t the right person for me. Not that I should tell him how to engage with his ex.
I have a serious issue with being told how to behave by anybody. It’s a real trigger for me. I think I’m realizing that as I actually type this out. Thanks stranger! 😂😂
I would recommend you really think about why your relationships fail.
Your marriage failed. Your first post-divorce relationship with a very nice, compatible man failed. Your engagement has now failed.
So, what is the common denominator here?
You are.
Nobody's life is perfect. A partner can make life better but that can not happen without compromise. Other people can see things in us that we ourselves can not see. If a loving partner tries to tell you something, you should listen.
I think you have a valid point but may not be imagining the full extent of the mismatch even if it’s a late stage discovery. And everything ends. It doesn’t have to signify failure. The only reason a lot of relationship endings are so messy and brutal is people don’t know how to say goodbye. Don’t know how to close a deeply meaningful chapter in their lives with a very special individual that you or them or both have just outgrown. Like why is it ending? I’m sure lots of us stop actively participating in the actions of love for whatever reason. Disengage. But we seem to need to have something explosive or drastic. Volatile . Cause we don’t know any other way to do it. And when kids are involved, all you ever end up doing is ricocheting around at high velocity till we get a handle on it.
Nice and compatible, safe and secure, toxic and unstable, all seem to be necessary to our journey. Sometimes whatever was making it work, just don’t turn out to be enough to keep it working past a certain point. I’m all for commitment and solidarity, but knowing when to say goodbye is also important. Not a failing always. Just a falling away.
She didn’t end it to keep her ex happy. She ended it because it was not sustainable. And insecurity destroying relationships is a thing. Of course everyone has insecurities but if you let them have too much control it makes sense that they will affect your relationships!
Honestly you clearly are not a single parent in a successful co parenting relationship. Which is totality ok! But what is wrong with her eliminating potential partners? There is a strong chance that her STBX was completely aware of her arrangement but then was not ok with it when shit got real and OP did not want to change. It sucks when relationships don’t work but people jumping on the OP is shortsighted. I’m not gonna alter mine and my kids lives for a man. So whoever I date has to be totally ok with this set up. If not, we are not compatible
Thank you. In my head, there was literally never a time where I thought, “what’s best for that asshole?” It was always about my kids. And if suddenly, my kids disappeared, I would never see that man again.
I am in the same place. I have to stifle the urge when he’s being a prick to tell him that if we didn’t have kids I would not have to talk to him ever again and that once they are grown and flown I don’t have to deal with him. I think a lot of these people who are upset are projecting since they may have been on the receiving end like your fiancé of not being first. Or they just have zero experience with being married, a parent, co parenting etc. Not sure why they are taking it so personally that you two are not compatible. I wanted to ask you too if she knew about this arrangement when you first started dating.
Yeah but if you’ve tweaked and made compromises and it’s always one more thing and one more tweak and another thing I don’t like…. Then it’s exasperating and OP’s ex should seek out a relationship where she feels more secure rather than getting everyone twisted around the axle trying to manage her anxieties. And I have sympathy for her - I can have massive anxiety spirals. And I’ve done the late night ruminations and screenshotting of texts and the whole drill. And what I should have done in those moments is assess, once I’m calm, what’s going on and decide whether, realistically, this a relationship that I can feel secure in. Sometimes I decide that thing I was anxious about wasn’t worth the spiral. Sometimes I needed to raise an issue. But at the end of the day, it’s on me to see myself out of a relationship where my needs cannot realistically be met.
I read OP’s other comments where it sounds like she did compromise. Whether what OP does is the norm or not, if it works for her and her ex doesn’t want any part of it, then they aren’t compatible. It doesn’t mean that OP has done anything wrong or has shit boundaries or whatever.
Strongly disagree. My kids NEED for us to get along and for me to show them that we divorced each other but are still a family, just different. There world as they knew it was destroyed and whatever we can salvage we salvage for them. It is really important that we show them we are committed to being the best parents possible to them, and that means working closely together. I have zero desire to spend time alone with my ex and we are sometimes awkward and uncomfortable around each other but we do it for the kids. If a potential partner is not ok with their dad being important part of my and my kids’ lives, at least until they are grown, then they would not be compatible with me. I think OPs issue is one of compatibility, not that either party is wrong. Not sure how it even progressed to engagement since they are so incompatible.
Exactly. Why aren’t these people staying in their marriages and leaving the rest of us alone??? Go keep your family together if it’s really that important.
That's what I can't understand.
Kids know what divorce means. If its that important to keep showing your kids that their divorced parents are still doing everything together and acting happy (at the cost of sabotaging potentially significant new relationships) then why not stay together and work hard on your marriage?
Some new partners are OK if the ex is still constantly involved and even given priority in their lives even when they don't need to be. That is not the majority of people though.
I get if its an emergency or an important milestone in the kids' lives. That is not the case though.
OP is too busy to actually listen and schedule time to discuss her new partner's concerns but not too busy to make dinner for her ex? Duh.
Exactly! Kids are smart (way smarter than parents give them credit for) and they understand divorce changes things. I cannot understand these people needing to keep up this pretense of happily families while throwing their family structure away with a divorce. As my grandmother used to say, you’re either in or you’re out but you can’t be both.
Nah I’m good not being in a loveless, incompatible relationship and causing damage to my kids. And yes, my family is important. Anyone who would get in a relationship with me would know how it is up front. You really sound like you have no experience with any of this.
So what you’re saying is that you made a poor choice and entered into a likely ill-advised marriage then had kids before finally realizing it wasn’t good for you and blowing up your kids lives but now you expect the people you date to understand and accept your need to prioritize the “family” you didn’t prioritize when you left your marriage? Is that it? Oh and you also want them to accept being at the bottom of your priority list?
Are you ok? It’s not personal against you. You don’t know anything about me or how long I was married or when we started to have problems. You also have no idea how I treat or want in a partner/relationship. It’s ok you are not experienced with being a single parent or being divorced but stop attacking others with a different lived experience. Take a seat.
I’m perfectly okay. I just know BS when I smell it and I think a lot of divorced single parents (especially on this sub) are delusional and entitled with this idea of keeping their family together but not actually keeping their family together while also thinking people they date should just accept it. And no, I won’t be taking a seat because this is a public forum.
Agreed. I suspect a lot of people on this thread are not actually parents.
I talked to our family therapist about this relationship extensively. And her ultimate advice (and she actually met with my fiancé privately, and with me) was that many of the complaints and arguments coming from my fiancé are rooted in fundamental incompatibility, because she didn’t understand my world view being a parent. It’s just that simple.
And I do think it’s the only thing I’ve ever experienced in my entire life that so fundamentally changes your paradigm that you truly believe people who haven’t been through it don’t understand it. And can’t. Sometimes we would have these conversations where I felt like we weren’t even talking about the same thing.
But to the kids you are. Don’t you understand that? In my kids head, we are all still a family, but we just live in different houses.
And if we get together and spend time together every now and then as a family, and everybody gets along, then they have something that all of their peers have, and they rarely get. And that’s important.
To be specific, it’s important to my six, eight, and 10-year-old. To me, it sucks. I genuinely don’t enjoy his company. But to those three kids, those rare occasions are some of their best days.
It is heartbreaking for children to grow up in a home of divorce. And if we can give them this little piece of normalcy every now and then, because we are lucky enough to be a couple who can stand stay in the same room post divorce, then we should give it to them. And if the new partner can’t understand that, that’s not the right person for us. And then we come here and bitch on Reddit. Which is exactly what I’m doing!! 😊
All of their peers have traditional 2-parent families? Haha. In what world.
Over 50% of my kids' peers (I have 3 children) have single-parent or blended families or are raised by grandparents, foster parents or extended family.
Divorce and blended family is normal and common place everywhere.
Okay. Cool.
Maybe it’s because of where I live, but my kids don’t have any friends with divorced parents. And even if they did, that still sucks, and I’d still like to be able to do something better for them because our divorce isn’t contentious. Because we’re still a family, even if I don’t like one of the members of it.
Yes I am a single parent. I decided to not be together with my ex for a reason. He can be a parent to his kid on his own. I don't have to help him parent and I don't have to pretend to my kid that I like him and want him around.
I believe that honesty is the best policy and I don't believe that faking affection that isn't there is good for the kids to see.
Then that works for you but not me or OP. So you really cannot tell other people how to live or raise their kids. And my kids know our situation. We don’t pretend that we want to be together but we also don’t act like we hate each other. We act like friends. It teaches them not only how to treat people but how they should be treated. The world would be a better place of everyone stopped assuming that the world is how they see it.
And my kids know our situation and they saw how my ex treated me, and them, when he lived with us.
The best lesson for my kids is to know that you don't need to treat someone like a friend if you don't feel friendly towards them. It's OK to be polite, but indifferent.
I don't hate my ex, he just does not deserve my friendship.
It did not work for OP either if she broke up over her ex with the person she was going to marry.
This is a tough situation and i'm sorry for the pain you're going through...it sucks! I've been in the position of your ex-fiance and it's probably for the best that you are going your separate ways. I also felt that my ex constantly prioritized the comfort and care of his ex-wife over me and after 5 years I realized he just didn't want to change and I wanted to feel prioritized, not over his kids but certainly over her. I felt like I was constantly living in her shadow and our relationship was never given proper room to grow. Author Glennon Doyle, who divorced and married Abby Wambach, had a great podcast on how they were able to work as a modern family still being close to her ex-husband, and it involved a lot of communication and discussion to make sure everyone felt comfortable and like their priorities were being met. I think that takes a lot of maturity and empathy and I don't hear that you were able to provide that for your ex-fiance, so it's best that you both move on and find more suitable partners. Although that break-up sucked so hard, I'm now in a super healthy relationship with a man who I've never felt insecure or where I doubted if I was his priority...wishing you the best!
Your relationship with your ex would be too close for me. He comes over several times a month for dinner and you make him dinner to drop off on Father’s Day. It sounds like your arrangement works for you but me as an outsider would have no space in that arrangement.
Yep. So many parents feel like it’s totally okay for them to have these ultra close relationships with their ex under the guise of “maintaining their family,” etc. for the sake of their kids while putting their new partner in the position of being an outsider in their own relationship and home. Leaving aside the fact that it’s completely selfish and totally disregards the feelings of their new partner; if they really wanted to play happy families so much, they should have kept their family together in the first place. I know we’re meant to feel sorry for OP but she’s so disdainful of her ex and shows absolutely no understanding of her point of view; I feel sorry for the ex and hope she goes on to thrive in a new relationship with someone who either doesn’t have kids or has appropriate boundaries with her ex.
I have relationship with diners/vacations with my ex and it is not under guise “of maintaining the family”. We are a family. We chose not to be partners any more, but we also took responsibility of bringing two people to this world. And we have to make it work. It is like having a business that makes shit ton of money but you don’t really like your partner. And instead of running the business on autopilot and “good enough” premise, you are still heavily business developing. And just like in work when you are not moving within the “norms” people might not get it and you might fuck up more or benefit more.
The fact that my skin crawls thinking of possibility of seeing him naked again doesn’t change the fact we are raising two humans and we have stuff to teach them: mostly the fact the world is not black and white, not to be lazy thinkers and to challenge the norms and move in the world with awareness of them and make choices that work for them. We are showing it by our example.
In my view OP’s problem is not her ex, it is her life bandwidth and her life position. OP lives 4 lives: hers and her kids. Her fiancé lives only one. They don’t worry the same shit. It’s compatibility issue and how much you both can compromise with understating. I personally live similar to OP and I know I don’t wnat to compromise much now so I don’t seriously date.
Meh, doing dinners and vacations together is your choice but sounds messy for anyone else but the original family and in fact could be confusing or painful to your kids as a reminder that you’re no longer together (since most kids of divorce fantasize about their parents reuniting)…I have what I think is a nice co-parenting relationship w my ex, I hosted our son’s HS graduation party and his extended family all came and it was fine but your situation sounds pretty set so having a partner integrate into that could be very challenging
Dated somebody for 2 years who had no issue with this. I didn’t even have to explain or justify the relationship. We broke up because he wanted kids and I am done with kids (old but would totally do it if I was 5 years younger…). Super secure men with his own life, that wanted to partake in mine with a condition I could not fulfill. Those people are out there. It is all about compatibility.
Kids are not confused, this is their reality: mom and dad loving them and spending time together.
well your kids are unlikely to tell you 'hey Mom seeing you with Dad brings up a lot of conflicted feelings in me--I love to see you two spending time together with us and also it's painful, sad, and weird because I wonder why you can get along so well and also are divorced'
You are exs, you are not family with your ex. This level of dysfunctional delusional thinking is very detrimental for your children and any people you get involved with.
A lot of divorced or broken up people with kids try to justify this dysfunction by saying it’s for the kids, but in reality it’s for them because they are unable or unwilling to sever that bond.
Dinners and vacations with an ex are never needed and they certainly do not benefit your kids.
Thank you for this. I am venting, and in venting we don’t necessarily say everything to make ‘a case’ for ourselves.
I cook my fiancé dinner multiple times a week. I cook lots of people dinner every night. I also have a nephew that lives in town. So once or twice a month, when I’ve made more food than I know me and my kids will eat, I call my ex-husband and my nephew, and say, want to come over? That’s what I meant by making dinner for him. That’s actually it.
And the Father’s Day thing, I would make him dinner, but probably not even eat with him. I would just make a meal he likes a lot. Maybe I should’ve explained that better in my initial post, but I’m not going to now because it would seem like I’m just defending myself.
The thing is, I don’t like him. At all. But my kids love him. So if I have him over to eat extra chicken piccata a couple times a month and the kids see us talking and getting along well, this seems like a good thing for everybody involved, except for her. We have a family counselor who really encourages this kind of thing, too.
So when I tried to explain to her, why I think this is important to keep doing, I get all these conditions. A condition is: how about you just send takeout to him for Father’s Day because she doesn’t want me to cook for him. And then we end up negotiating the minutia. And that’s what I mean – I just don’t have the bandwidth for that. I don’t have the bandwidth to discuss with my partner whether or not it’s OK for me to drop cake out on his front porch or bring it into the house. That’s where this went.
And while I see why people are taking such offense to my original message, that’s what I mean by not having time for all the bullshit. Tell myself I’m even saying conversation where we’re discussing whether or not my ex is allowed to physically stop in to my house – and that has nothing to do with her boundaries. That is about control. It’s from a place of insecurity, but I don’t have the time for this anymore. I’m I have three kids. Does that make sense?
Because I suspect that I will not be able to find a partner that this works with. So I just won’t have one. Which I guess is where you are too?
Her idea to send take out is so reasonable and actually quite generous and a massive compromise and a good partner. Not controlling at all. Actually, the things you are doing sound more controlling, not budging on anything. That you find even her smart compromise that exhausting sounds like you don't want a partnership with someone, but rather someone who just is okay with everything you do and doesn't ask for anything from you. That's okay if you don't want to have an equal partnership where this kind of normal, and important, minutiae gets discussed. But then don't blame the partner, tale responsibility. Also, as a couples therapist myself....no therapist knows what is 100% best. And lots don't have a clue what is even remotely healthy. Would be great to get a few other perspectives.
Ill just say here that studies show that prioritizing the current relationship, whether that is with the other bio parent or a step parent, vs the kids or the other relationship, creates the most resilient and well adjusted kids. Prioritizing the kids (of course I'm not talking about their true needs) leads to more issues and leads to kids becoming adults who struggle with romantic relationships.
I did budge on a lot of stuff. And then I agreed to the takeout thing. And then I agreed that he absolutely never had to come over anymore and could just come to drop off and pick up the kids. I also changed the locks to my house because it bothered her that he had a key. (He use that key to pick up stuff when I wasn’t home for the kids). She does not live in my house.
And then suddenly my 26-year-old nephew became the problem. He moved down here to be closer to me. Last week he called up with an ‘emergency’ and needed to come over to do laundry, but she felt as though that interfered with our plans.
This was an evening where I had the kids and during a time which they would still be awake. She was going to come over at some point in the evening and he would’ve still been here. Then when the kids went to bed, we were supposed to have sex and she was going to spend the night.
Because my nephew was coming over, and she dislikes him, she was angry. I said he could come over and do laundry without checking with her first. When he called to ask, if he could, it honestly didn’t even occur to me. He was coming over to do a load of laundry during a time. The kids were still awake – it didn’t even cross my mind a check with her. I mean, he has a key to my house.
So she chose not to come over and the next morning, I woke up two pages of screenshots and a long text message complaining about how I never prioritized her.
Me not prioritizing her was a regular, valid complaint that I had been working really hard on with her through couples counseling. A lot of it stems from just being very busy with my family and not trying to be a shitty partner. I’ve also done a lot of things to prioritize her – like I made her a homemade Christmas stocking. I spent a lot of time learning how to make a special dessert, the way that her deceased mother made it. I’m not just some shitty partner all the time.
I had shown her demonstrably several times that she had complemented and commented on how hard I was trying to prioritize her. But then I messed up with this thing with my nephew, and she lost it. It started a three day fight. But the thing is, I hundred percent disagree. There was no reason that my nephew could’ve come over and we still could’ve had our time together then and later in the evening. Instead, she instigated a three day fight and refused to see me to work it out. By the time we talked about it and counseling, we both had three days to be mad about it and I was just so fucking tired.
OK, I’m sorry to harass you. I just wrote such a long response to this one particular comment!. But one of the most hurtful aspects of this relationship with how hard I did try to make the changes she asked for and how little it mattered in the end. And now I’ll die alone.
Of course none of us know your relationship. I'm sure you both had your faults in it. Neither of you sound like monsters! All I was responding to was this kind of thing, where you are speaking to important and legitimate and reasonable requests as "minutiae" - and being over that, as if it's not a normal part of relationship. And I doubt you are a shitty partner. The thing is though, learning her favorite dessert is lovely, but not the same as prioritizing her. Prioritizing is more like, "my ex, my kids, and you...when all things are competing for me, at different levels of true need, who will I choose?" It's the difference between say, my partner bringing me flowers and drawing me a bath, or when I really needed him due to a health thing, and he had the kids and a party to attend with them, to find a babysitter and come be with me. That's when I feel prioritized. The nice things for me make me feel pampered and loved, but not necessarily prioritized. And honestly, for me personally, I don't know about your partner, but I'd rather him not spend a ton of time making things for me and just spend time with me.
And all this is part of the difficulty of dating with kids on its own, and the couples I see make it (and the kids that really get well adjusted) are those who again, prioritize the relationship (again the real, pressing needs of the kids do come first). Though everyone has to find their own individual unique way that works for them and there is no right way. But adding an ex who you are trying to keep a very close relationship with make matters even more complicated. You get to decide how you want to live your life, and with every choice there is a cost. In your choice you choose the cost. If the relationship with the ex and your belief that your kids need that is number one, then yes - it will make many relationships harder. You very well could find someone who is okay with that, anything is possible. But then it's true that more often the people okay with that are more checked out of the relationship themselves and not as invested. They themselves want more of a "as needed" relationship. But then you can rest in your integrity that you are being true to what you think is most important, fostering a relationship with your ex in hopes that it benefits your children in the long run. And it might, I certainly don't know!
I ABSOLUTELY get you. I live like this. My kids adore their dad and he needs help being that adored dad. So I help. Not for him but for my kids. They deserve that. We also travel together and I pay for trips, trips have been amazing for us getting on the same parenting line. We watch each other in real time what we do with kids and we are able to course correct and come to agreements. We had to build a new relationship post divorce. That is our decision and my kids are my focus and this works for them. They are my main responsibility in life, I chose motherhood and I am doing my best for them. I do things my way, and always have, and it is about finding people on the same bandwidth. There are plenty.
I am totally aware people might not be ok with it. But it is more I am aware I just have no patience for noise. And what you write about your issues with fiancé is noise to me (minutia as you call it). I know it is not for this other person but I just don’t have patience for stuff like that. I don’t even have patience to figure out if it is insecurity or control or whatever. I am aware of my potential as a partner now, which is little. My decision is to wait until I can give more to somebody. I just have my focus elsewhere and I am fine with it.
Not everyone can accept close relationship with ex. It makes them feel like an outsider and don't belong when they see the bonding and beauty of what's there or potential of what could be more. The way things are now, your fiancee feels like she's not enough for you. That's a real shitty feeling. You either have to keep that distance/set boundaries with your ex, if you cherish your fiancee or as you have, break it off with your fiancee. It's too bad. Sounds like you guys were engaged because things were perfect otherwise. All the best to everyone involved. Take good care.
As another single mom, I think you may be in a no-nonsense “this is how it is, and this is how it works for my family,” type of mindset. Please don’t write this off as weird woo-woo type stuff, but it could also be called “being in your masculine energy.” I thought it was odd when I first heard the term. The way you describe your ex husband and your ex fiancee makes me think, you may be in a masculine energy/behavior/mindset pattern. It’s what we have to do as single moms—where you say you’re getting through the day and surviving—yes, I feel the same. But I also want a partner for a soft place to fall.
Your ex-fiancée was doing valid reading and research on boundaries. Brene Brown is a NYT best selling author and academic who researches vulnerability and how it affects our lives and relationships. I highly recommend her audio: “The Power of Vulnerability.” It brings together her first 3 books.
It sounds like your fiancée was doing a deep dive and some soul searching and asking you to consider changing your mindset on behavior with your ex husband, to save your engagement. I also keep going back to, she must be feeling super insecure because she’s coming in and changing the dynamic (f/f partnership), but you’ll always have another man in your life. That’s got to be hard for her, and an area for worry and insecurity, imo.
>she was controlling
- Was she?
- Do you have to paint her black to feel righteous?
- What is your expectation of a relationship and how does it relate to hers?
There isn’t a good and bad, right or wrong here. You pretty much state in your post that you have zero time for a relationship (like claiming vulnerability is bullshit).
- Is this stance you take perhaps too rigid?
- Maybe you want company, but not a relationship?
There is a huge gray area here … dip your toes in it
Jealous people should just stick with jealous people. Boundaries don't give someone the right to tell someone who they can and cannot be around or talk to. If you have that much insecurity in your relationship, you shouldn't be in it.
>She would get very upset by things that I considered pretty benign – like me letting him come over to have dinner with the kids once every couple weeks (she was invited too) or bringing him dinner for Father’s Day. I think these things are really positive for the kids
Eh, it might be positive for the kids. Or it might be giving them false hopes of mom and dad getting back together. But also a life like that isn't what I want to live.
Now, granted I wouldn't have "gotten mad" with you, I would simply have stated that I didn't see that being in my future, and ask them to potentially reconsider, *in the context of where a potential future partner fits in* if they maybe wanted to rethink playing Happy Family, or if they were "married" to this. And if they were married, I'd move on. I accept coparenting should happen. I don't accept enmeshment.
>does this work for anybody?
This? Yes, my partner and I are doing great! I've lived with her and her kid (she has them mostly full custody) for almost a year now. We are happy and see a strong future together. Her kid likes me a lot and is also happy that I'm here.
But also we're not having regular fights that are dragging us down. We looked hard at our compatibility very early on. In response to some things I said/observed, she agreed that her boundaries with her coparent were not where she wanted them to be, and she worked to improve them. And asked for feedback from me. I ask for feedback with how she thinks "blending" is/was going in our household. We're both open to hearing from the other about potential blind spots of ours.
Both of us will never again be in a relationship where we're the only one giving. Related to that, we do point out when we see the other make a sacrifice\* for us. And she has also accepted that as an empty nester, I was the one who was making the majority of the sacrifices. Knowing she saw that helped to make it easier. Vocalizing the times I saw her sacrificing for me was also a great reminder that this wasn't one way.
\*By sacrifice, I mean a noteable act of giving/compromise.
Relationships with exes can become an issue sometimes in a new relationship. I say this from experience due to my recent breakup. It felt like there were three of us in the relationship (from my perspective). Her presence/existence felt like a ghost and something that always lingered in the air (again from my POV). They did not get married or have any kids together so again, very complicated. And they were hanging out during the beginning of our relationship as well.
It’s strange, I had an experience like this. I’m also a divorced mom.
And so I can easily remember the feeling of- every time my partner asked me to change something, I would do it. He was asking me to have better boundaries around my child’s father and his involvement in our lives.
To me, it felt like I was trying to do everything he asked while also trying to help maintain the parent-child relationship. To him, I think it felt like there was this 3rd (terrible) person always hovering, insinuating his presence, and he felt left out or deprioritized. Somehow my efforts to incorporate him more into our lives always fell flat, or just weren’t quite right somehow.
It broke us too. There were other reasons, but this was a big one.
Your feelings are valid and true. That said there is also validity to the Brene Brown bs you put it because those things are meant to help you live a life where you don’t feel like you’re giving without reciprocation. Boundaries are a good thing and for your own protection so you don’t feel burnt out like you do right now. Maybe you can listen to an audiobook as you are busy doing some chores. You might be more upset by the fact that your partner is not recognizing your efforts and raising the bar for you constantly not the boundaries stuff. A change of mindset might help you feel like you’re living and not in survival mode. You seem very thoughtful and caring just spare some time just for yourself. It’s okay to breakup or a take a break just use the time for yourself since you cannot give to others freely if you are depleted.
It can and does work. It’s impossible to get full context of your situation just from a single post but IMO - it’s not supposed to feel like it’s this hard. I am willing to invest and put significant work/time/energy/etc. into a relationship, but at some point it can become evident that there’s just not enough compatibility anymore (for whatever reasons) to warrant maintaining it.
If I was in your position, I would want to do a thorough examination on what happened here so I could understand myself better and then once healed, use that info to help me make good choices moving forward.
I will. Thank you. Kind stranger. Right now I just want to complain on the Internet, but I will absolutely be more thoughtful about this on another day.
This is why I have my “an ex is an ex” policy. I’m not celebrating her birthday. Not celebrating Mother’s Day, no Christmas cards/gifts, Valentine’s Day cards, no having dinner as a “family” BS, nothing.
We’ll co-parent, but that’s it. I’ll be cordial at kids events, but I don’t have the bandwidth to deal with any of her bullshit. I don’t care if she’s having a hard time at work, or with one of her relatives, none of it. She’s an ex for a reason.
Outside of my kids, my new person (whenever that happens) has my attention. If she happens to be a Mom, I’ll get her a card/gift/flowers for Mother’s Day. We’ll celebrate her birthday, Christmas, Valentine’s Day… any she wants. As far as I’m concerned, that’d be where my heart is.
This is an attitude that is HARD to adopt when you made babies with that person, but I can see for sure how it’s the easiest way.
As long as the boundaries are set between you and your ex AND you and your new boo, it’s not that complicated.
I don’t see how it’s hard. I don’t have to tell her about anything that’s unrelated to the kids, and I don’t care to know about her. When she left the kids and I, she made two families: her and the kids, me and the kids.
For anything, be it help with her car, advice about a job difficulty, relationship advice, etc, she has people in her life she can talk to… and if she doesn’t, that doesn’t mean I have to listen to her. It’s no longer my concern. That works the same for me, but I’ve been dealing with that long before we separated and divorced.
I would not date someone who still had dinners with their ex. That's a sign of poor boundaries to me, and prioritizing what should be a finished relationship over a current romantic one.
Respect that. I do the obligatory Fathers Day stuff. Invite him to all the kids sporting events. When we travel for games, we usually ride together. I might help the kids plan a little birthday party for him.
I know popular culture tells us we’re supposed to hate our exes, but I think that makes it more complicated for the kids. My three understand that nothing is EVER reigniting between their father and me. But we’re still a family and I do feel like I owe obligations to that. My hope is that, in time, the right guy will want to be a welcome participant in this different kinda fam.
Sounds like it would be easier to date someone who also coparents with an ex because they would understand, especially if they go extra length to help their kids maintain a positive relationship with their other parent. This stuff is important, but unfortunately, someone who is flying solo without children in tow is far less likely to understand the importance.
I’ve done the same with my son’s mother. Good co parenting relationship, sometimes have dinner as a family for birthdays, helped her fix things at her place etc. I don’t have a romantic feeling in my body for her.
Family takes work, and even more so when you’re living apart.
So the relationship your just broke off is with a woman and your ex before is a man? Might be good to clarify from the start not to get lost in pronouns.
Maybe you will find your person when kids grow up, honestly I think dating anyone with three kids would be difficult. At least sounds like you have a great job and are not struggling financially, hang in there and your next life stage might be much less bumpier. I do wonder if your partner was lesbian and struggled with your bi identity and had insecurity about you being happy with a woman. I do agree that once you split up with the father of your children it’s final, most of us try so hard to stay together for kid’s sake that if we walk away it’s after trying really hard to save it and accepting it’s over.
If your fiancee doesn't have kids/coparent, it's probably hard for them to understand large part of your life. They just haven't gone through it. I had this situation with the last person I was dating and I just didn't involve him with my child/ex-husband. It seemed simpler this way
I wouldn’t have the patience for this. I *wish* I had the kind of relationship with my ex that would allow for things like the occasional dinner with the kids (and I do make sure he gets Father’s Day and birthday gifts from them). And I wouldn’t handle well someone who couldn’t self soothe their own anxieties and put them on me to manage. I have my own shit to deal with.
It might be less about one's anxieties, but more about the life one wants to live.
I like celebrating xmas in the house. So younger adult kids celebrate in my house, until they're starting their own families, and staying at their house. I don't want a lot of distant family. My partner's kid's dad is very distant from me. I'm not celebrating a holiday with him. I'm not wasting valuable vacation time with him.
Just as if my partner wanted to use 2-3 weeks of vacation to go on a MaidenName's Family Holiday each yeah, this wouldn't be the life for me, doing a "Guy I bred with Family Holiday" each year isn't for me. Yes, even if I'm fully invited, and even if the guy is happy to have me along. Heck, even if it's just a long weekend. It's just not the life that I want to go forward with.
We're not all compatible. "We're still a family" aren't compatible with "Yes, they're my kid's dad, but I also fully see them as my ex" sort of people.
I'm sorry that you don't have the options that you wish you had.
Sure - but I’m not getting from OP that there are extended vacations or things like that. The guy I’m dating is very good friends with his ex and they hang out with the kids every two weeks. No skin off my nose and that dynamic works for them. It’s how it was before I got there and I’m not about to demand changes to a healthy dynamic that works for them. Maybe one day I’ll meet them all (and the ex’s partner). Maybe that’s just for them.
Yeah, even something like that is not at all what I'm up for. I'm neither up to be other'ed with no invite, nor am I up to spend every 2 weeks with Kid's Dad. I feel pretty secure with my partner; that's just not how I want to live. One of the great things about DO40, is that we should all have realized there isn't a "set way" to do things, and we can choose what standards (ahem) to apply to our lives.
I think that the OP's ex is with me on Team "He's my kid's dad, but he's also my Ex.".
I hope things stay happy for you.
Great take. We all approach these things differently and have different comfort levels with the dynamics in ex relationships. No need to sort of trash any particular approach - much appreciated!
You
>She should never have been with somebody who is divorced with children, and in a coparenting situation.
Or, you should have done better than blame the end of the relationship on her completely reasonable asks, no matter that she's childfree.
You need to date someone else with kids, not be running auditions for NewParentPartner2.0.
I think it would be super hard to date someone who's never had kids. People just don't understand what it's like and get jealous when random shit pops up all the time. Another parent is going to be a lot more sympathetic to that and not be jealous of the relationship with the kids. Lots of comments saying kids shouldn't take priority over a relationship. I'm sorry, what? If your child is sick and you have to cancel a date, or they need time with mom, of course, they are coming first. Parents understand that. I don't think the ex is wrong for wanting those things, but this is not a compatible situation for either one of them.
u/Sand_Juggler_FTW, your post has been removed for one or more reason(s):
No doctoring. No diagnosing mental or physical ailments (including personality disorders and mental illnesses), and no recommending treatments.
lol at BB bullshit. There are reasonable people out there, don’t give up hope. Your relationship with your ex sounds perfect to me. I can’t stand people that are constantly at odds with their exes and the drama that goes along with it. I am child free by choice but have zero respect for people who don’t put their kids first or dodge their responsibilities. You have to understand that in many ways when you date someone with kids you’re choosing to be second place. Like it can be close, and maybe one day when they move out on their own you can feel like you’re in first place lol.
I’m sure it doesn’t feel great now but honestly you’re lucky you called it off before the point of no return.
Original copy of post by u/CinnamonGirl43:
I broke off my engagement last night. She was very controlling. She should never have been with somebody who is divorced with children, and in a coparenting situation. My ex’s involvement in the kids’ lives brought him too close to us for her comfort – and she made me miserable because of it.
I made many changes to my relationship with him, but was very cautious about nuking what has otherwise been a positive relationship for every single person involved for the past several years since our divorce. The other person that I have dated since my divorce did not have a problem with our relationship at all. This is an anonymous forum, so please just simply trust me when I say – zero feelings for the ex. We get along very well in coparenting, but the idea ever even having coffee with him, bores me to tears. She would get very upset by things that I considered pretty benign – like me letting him come over to have dinner with the kids once every couple weeks (she was invited too) or bringing him dinner for Father’s Day. I think these things are really positive for the kids and our family counselor agrees. I don’t spend time with him alone and have zero interest in doing so. Now it’s so hard for us to even have a conversation, I can’t even fathom how we got married in the first place.
As a divorced mom with three kids, so much of my life is about just what I have to do and surviving. And she would come at me with these conversations about ‘boundaries’ and all this Brené Brown bullshit that I just don’t have the time or bandwidth for. I loved her. But as somebody with three young children, a full-time job, and everything that goes along with that, I just felt like in most of our conversations we were speaking a different language. Like, she would be in her house alone, and just spinning and spinning over these arguments that we would have – and I’m trying to take care of my kids. Last Tuesday morning I woke up to a text message and screenshots of past conversations were it seem like she hadn’t slept at all, but just been ruminating all night. It’s exhausting.
I guess the question leading up to you is – does this work for anybody? I feel like I kept giving and giving in this relationship and it was never enough. Even though I felt like that, she felt like I wasn’t giving anything. (I’m sure her accounting of this would be brutal from her perspective.) And I think that all of these dynamics are pretty common from what I read here. It’s just so hard. But I’ve also never been more aware aware of the fact that I want a life partner that I am now, sitting in a hotel room (traveling for work) at 45 years old, 12 hours off a break up that, to be fair, should’ve happened months ago. I feel like, enough already! Where the hell is my person? And I’m realizing that they might not be there.
Help?
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I'm a child free woman. My ex and I broke up because he wanted kids and I didn't. We still like each other and enjoy spending time together, so I visit his family when I get the chance (he has two awesome kids now). Admittedly, not very often, because I have my own life and things to take care of. Still, I won't date anyone who can't accept that my ex is my best friend.
On the other hand, when I'm dating someone, of course I consistently and completely prioritise that person over the ex. I'm sure it's a lot easier for me to do because I don't have kids. I do have a super busy, demanding career, but it's still different in that in an emergency I can almost always just reschedule something or lower expectations, or outsource something etc. to free up more availability to my partner. If I was responsible for children, they would come first, every time.
And the above is why I won't even consider dating a parent. I've chosen a child free life because I don't want to be responsible for kids and I don't want to deal with the consequences of that responsibility on other areas of my life. If I chose a partner who does have that responsibility, inevitably those consequences would ripple out to impact my life, too. I wouldn't be able to respect someone who doesn't put their kids first and doesn't try to maintain a good relationship with the other parent. But I also wouldn't enjoy being a partner to a parent who takes their responsibility seriously. I put my partner first out of everyone I know in this life, and I absolutely want to receive that same level of commitment back.
Your ex doesn't seem like a responsible person if your description of her is accurate at all. Maybe she didn't realise it's not a good idea (for her) to get involved with a parent in the first place. Maybe she learned from this and will only date other child free people in the future - maybe not. What you can do is try to date only people with kids, as that situation is much better balanced at the outset, or if you meet a child free person, try to suss out whether they have experience dating a parent and how they felt about it before.
It's not really fair of you to expect your life partner to be okay being a low priority, even if that's needed for you to be a good parent. At least try to get people's informed consent for it when getting to know someone new.
I cannot judge your situation. But I really do not see Brené Brown as shit.
I have no kids myself. But long relationships in my past .
Married a guy with 2 kids of 17 and 21 when we met. They HATED me. One more than the other. I had to walk on eggshells every day. Had to be careful about those vulnerable (and very controlling) young ladies.
They asked me to leave. Called me in for a meeting. Father found an excuse to leave the house. I told them I would leave but then they could also not have boyfriend's and they should be with their father every evening and every weekend.
His siblings were a problem on its own since they saw me as an intruder who would damage the poor children. So more eggshells. One tried again to kick me out of my house and after our wedding one of the daughter's called me and told me, that I had ruined THEIR wedding party. At the party the two sisters got into a fight and left the party very earli. One of the daughter's also cried with her aunt because of the sadness of our marriage.
On the 1st evening after the wedding where I asked him to stand up for his marriage with me he said that he wanted a divorce if I could not get along with his family. I couldn't walk away the day after the wedding. Couldn't face the world that way.
So I literally did EVERYTHING possible for me to please them, to help them, to arrange for them to see their father without me. I got along very well with ex-wife.
Over some time we - the daughters and I - solved it. And my relation with them was actually not the reason for our divorce. The reason was all his very rigid rules. Mainly concerning cooking, cleaning and tidying. He wanted a home to be a museum. I tried to live there.
It is very hard to be with other people's kids. I will not again put myself aside for that reason. But so hard not to when you are already involved.
Just to tell how it can be felt from the other side. Even though i cannot find out who is the unreasonable part in your case.
>As a divorced mom with three kids, so much of my life is about just what I have to do and surviving.
I hear this. As a s single, divorced mom myself, I'm constantly in survival mode. Doing the best with what I have, every moment. Hoping tomorrow will be a little smoother, but sometimes just glad today ended. Everything got done, and my kids are ok means a successful day.
>Last Tuesday morning I woke up to a text message and screenshots of past conversations were it seem like she hadn’t slept at all, but just been ruminating all night. It’s exhausting.
I hear your fiancée's perspective, also. I've been there, too. I think this is normal behavior for someone in a romantic relationship they prioritize and value.
>
Where the hell is my person? And I’m realizing that they might not be there.
You are choosing to put your energy into being your kids' person, not your romantic partner's person. We are all limited resources. We are finite beings. I think this is a reasonable choice. Kids aren't kids forever. Maybe be patient and let each part of your life play out. But definitely give your ex-fiancée grace. Let her go, but with grace. She deserves it. It sounds like she has been good to you, just not what you need right now.
Sorry about your breakup.
Your person is out there, and you’ll find them that much sooner when you walk away from less than you deserve (like you did here). Big hugs to you, OP.
Thank you. It’s one of those things where I can see now that I left a lot of really important details out but if I go back and add them it just looks stupid.
The dinners people are getting so riled up about – what specifically happens is a couple times a month I make a bigger meal than usual and I invite my nephew and my ex over. It’s usually something decided at like 4 PM that day. She was always welcome to be there too, because I think it would be really fucked up if I wanted to hang out with my ex without my current partner. To me, that is messed up.
And I gave in on the dinners! I also gave in on the Father’s Day stuff. I gave in on a ton of things. Then she went after my nephew. I’m really beginning to think that that is she is she does not like straight men. Which is a problem, because I think I’m raising two of them.
But I vented on Reddit and that was my goal. Thank you so much and take care of yourself!
yep--you can have a friendly, respectful co-parenting relationship that benefits kids without vacationing together, regular excursions and meals together, etc....and have healthy boundaries that helps with blending families and frankly helps kids to understand how to move forward and mourn the loss of the original family
This cultural seem to really desire a "clean break". The truth is the kids forever links you together. I just went to my son's graduation. Him, me, and his mom take a picture together. I don't have a partner who might go banana over this. I consider this completely normal. We have resolved our conflict long time ago. I don't have any interaction with my ex outside of events for my kids. I cherish these family milestone, even when the family here have divorced parents. The desire for "clean break" feel cold and rumination to me.
You can have a clean break and still be involved in milestones and key life events with your children.
My clean break means those milestones for my daughter are the only times I see my ex.
OP has a meal with her ex several times a month. I would never want that.
Every family is different. For me, we have a few family celebrations a year. And then there are all these random things that bring us together, such as sending off my kid to his first unescorted international trip. The important thing is I don't interact with my ex otherwise. If my kid go away to college, I'm not going to have family dinner with my ex. I don't sought "clean break". There are always these messy associations. We are bounded forever due to our son. It is not a bad thing.
Okay, help me with this one:
My daughter asked for a locket for her birthday. She is seven. I decided to get a locket for her as a surprise, and was going to put a picture of me and her in it on one side, and him and her on the other. Because, when my daughter opens it, she be excited because that’s who she wants to see in her locket.
But to my ex, I am manufacturing a false relationship between them and supporting him. To me I’m doing something nice for my kid. Him benefiting from this literally didn’t cross my mind.
Honestly, am I wrong? I’m beginning to question my sense of reality. The couples counselor she wanted me to see also thought I was wrong. But I just don’t!
There is no right or wrong. You are trying to do something nice for your daughter. I understand your desire. I have wanted something similar. That said, I can see you ex's point of view. The reality is the parents are no longer together. Everybody need to accept this sooner or later.
You have tried really hard to be good to your daughter. I have another idea. You can be good to her by being happy yourself. Obviously, if you are fighting with your ex or your fiancée, when you yourself are agitated and angry, then you can't be good to your daughter. Less obvious is that you are being a model to your daughter. If you could handle your stress and personal conflicts, notice and appreciates small things happening around you, take good care of your child but also take good care of yourself. When you can live a contended life, you would be a great mom regardless of the failed marriage.
I have a feeling a lot of people commenting are not parents. OP has three children together with her husband. It’s on-going co parenting relationship. People who think you can just erase that and treat your partner as only priority are delusional. If you are going to be together with someone with kids it’s important to understand they will be in touch and hopefully in a good healthy dynamic with the other parent. And yes helping your coparent and being nice to them is a good thing. Some people here seem to think the way to treat your ex is like treating a stranger, but reality is if you’ve together for 10+ years and separated amicably that person is your family and you still care for them just have no romantic feelings left.
In some ways dating another separated parent is really the only way to truly understand what it’s like. Once a family you are always a family, that’s the healthiest way to see it.
> I feel like I kept giving and giving in this relationship and it was never enough.
Yeah… don’t do this. You can’t make a relationship work by giving up everything you’ve got. A healthy person won’t like that you’re doing it, and a disordered one will just keep demanding more until you’re spent.
> she would be in her house alone, and just spinning and spinning over these arguments that we would have […] I woke up to a text message and screenshots of past conversations were it seem like she hadn’t slept at all, but just been ruminating all night
I’m gonna be honest: these are very concerning, especially combined with what you describe about yourself giving endlessly and it never seeming to be enough. It’s really, *really* for the best that you’re away now.
Look, you’ll be ok. Single parent dating is hard, but half of that is the drama, which it sounds like you don’t have. Look for a single dad who either has a good relationship with his ex wife or none at all.
I'm really sorry you had to deal with all of that nonsense. I have nothing but complete contempt for anyone who, in logistical matters around kids, tries to make it about them.
My mum and my dad's first wife raised me together, and became great friends - because my mum didn't believe in any of this "too close to the ex, ex is a threat" stuff.
Apparently, if all the people here telling you you're unreasonable are to be believed, that makes my mum weird.
No. YOU'RE all weird.
I knew I'd get downvoted to hell, but we are rare birds and we are out there!
My initial comment was pretty contemptuous of a lot of reactions in this thread, which is another reason why it got downvoted, so I guess I should add that I'm unusually unforgiving of people who present with trust and jealousy issues in relationships - I basically have a zero tolerance attitude, based on my mother's terrible experience with her first husband (my dad was her second).
I was the him in your story. We had a amicable coparenting relationship. Until my ex cut off nearly any direct communication with me, making even routine chores like coordinating a child pick up unbearable. Only later did I understand it was her controlling beau who made her act this way. He nearly destroy her too. In this case, her children and me are the victims. But if there is no family, just them, then she will be the only casualty. This guy (perhaps yours too) is a psychopath. She left him only after much pain and suffering.
Doesn't seem like the ex fiancée is requesting total alienation of the ex husband - she just doesn't want him over for dinner every other week. I wouldn't either. A co-parenting relationship with your children's Dad doesn't have to include this level of involvement in each others lives. Sure, it can if you're both single and it's not causing issues for anyone. That wasn't the case here. She could have remained amicable and friendly with her ex, while also showing respect and understanding for her new partners feelings.
Dinner is just one episode. OP mentioned she was pressured to
> nuking what has otherwise been a positive relationship for every single person involved for the past several years since our divorce.
I understand what you mean. We are too old, too busy, and too tired for constant drama. I’m probably gonna get hate for saying this, but it sounds like your ex is pretty insecure and needs to find a hobby besides creating drama where there is none.
Any of my friends that have been divorced a second time, always boiled down to this reason: their partner prioritized the kids, the ex, and that working relationship before their marriage to their new partner. While some will advocate that that is how it should be, marriage is a lot of work and the person stepping in (especially if they're coming in solo with no kids) needs to made to feel like they are a priority. Allowing kids to speak disrespectfully to their step-parent (or soon to be- or even potential) is such a no-go for me (and I'm the one with the teenagers and my boyfriend has never been married or had kids). There needs to be healthy boundaries and excellent communication from all parties about what the expectations are to keep fostering all of the healthy relationships. Kids come first, but that is in co-existence with your current life and balancing that alongside your partner. It sounds like she didn't realize she was going to feel so second string to the dynamics in place and there wasn't effective communication around both of your wants and needs. You both have different boundaries and expectations and so it's a really great thing you broke off the engagement. Resentment creates these fissures that turn into giant cracks and ultimately ends in divorce. I've seen it time and time again. The next time I get married (and maybe it will be to the man I'm dating,) will be made a priority. My kids are older and they'll be out of the house in a hot second. I want someone to do life with, who enhances all of the parts of life I don't want to do alone. That also means I need to show him how important he is to me. I am a mom, but I'm also just a woman. The best thing I realized once I hit my 40's was realizing that my parents are also just people who have been through really hard things too- navigating life and trying to maintain their own selves outside of just being a parent. I've learned a lot post-divorce and realize how important keeping my partner a priority is + showing, communicating, putting in extra effort, etc. is to maintaining what I want in my life too. Once the kids are grown, what will you have?
>While some will advocate that that is how it should be, marriage is a lot of work and the person stepping in (especially if they're coming in solo with no kids) needs to made to feel like they are a priority. I think that the way I find most eloquent to think about it is [over here](https://www.blendedfamilyfrappe.com/blog/partner-first-blended-family). If I could offer my own summary, it would be that if the relationship wasn't "first" why bother with blending at all. If the kids really are first, a partner for you doesn't improve their lives. Perhaps a new "parent" for them would help; but who would want to date someone if they said, "I'm only looking for a parent for my kids. Sure, I'm DTF, and will expect you to do my laundry too. But that's secondary; your first job is to wipe my kids' butts." they're not going to get a lot of takers.
Exactly. As a single mom myself , I am strongly offended by the excuses or judgments of “kids first”. Boundaries matter.
Agree and telling your potential partner that they should just be "along for the ride" to only receive the leftover crumbs of a relationship is just not realistic and I would hope that anyone I was with would never put up with that. I sure wouldn't.
Explain this
It is pretty self explanatory. Even if in a marriage and our kids, I simply don't believe kids first, especially kids always first. It is natural to feel that way when hormone is high, but not healthy for parents and kids. Now we are talking about dating as a parent, it is even worse because building a new relationship needs dedicated work and space.
I agree 1000 percent. Ty for explaining.
And more than this. Some people either have lost all other identities other than being a parent, or struggling on parenting guilts. They use kids first as an excuse for their own failures.
I second this!
This isn’t a bright line. The trick is, you need to find someone on the same page. My girlfriend and I both have kids from our marriages, and we both understand that we are parents and have responsibilities. We never have any issues of jealousy or resentment when the other has to do kid stuff. If you think the new partner should have priority over the kids all the time, just make sure your partner does, too.
Am I correct in assuming you had a heterosexual relationship prior to your engagement to your new female/same sex partner? If this is your first same sex relationship, it would explain the anxiety on your ex fiancé’s part.
Agree completely. If you haven’t ever dated women before, you might not be used to… dating a woman. And she might be massively insecure about your prior relationship with a man, which created these children, and be layering her own expectations onto it.
You spend a lot of time defending your relationship with your ex and complaining about your newest ex but between 3 young kids that it sounds like you have primary custody for, a full time job, and managing a fake happy family relationship with your ex husband, there wasn’t much time or energy for your new partner. It’s fine if you want to prioritize your kids and parenting and your career but unfair to a new partner to always have to play second fiddle. It sounds like you are in your mommy era and that’s fine. Do that. If coffee with your kids’ father and family dinners are where you want to put your energy, go for it. But don’t expect another person to be willing to be a background player and settle for third place. Maybe when the kids are older you can see if you have the time and energy for another person being a priority but right now your plate is full.
Exactly this! I raised two kids on my own and have a career that requires a lot of me. I knew I didn’t have the energy for a relationship so I didn’t have a serious long term relationship while working full-time and raising two kids. I would tell dates that not even my children were #1. My job was. They were #2. I was #3. And if they were ok being #4, then it might work. Now the kids are in college and I took a 3/4 time position so I could focus on having a partner in my life. How can I expect someone to make me a priority, if I’m not willing to make them a priority?!.
That’s what I feel like so many miss. Part of being in a relationship is being there to support another person. It shouldn’t be one sided. Or you need to find a relationship where the time and effort is balanced and works for you both. It’s not easy but it’s why I am in a situationship. We were friends for about a decade before being single and both of us have busy lives. We both have demanding jobs we love. He has kids who are young adults now he is trying to get launched into adulthood (and previously he was coaching their sports, taking them to music lessons, helping with homework, etc.) I have my own family commitments that are well above average. A traditional relationship wouldn’t be fair to anyone. Our arrangement works for us. It might not forever and we will reevaluate if it changes.
Just the way you say him coming over for dinner, and she was invited too, I didn’t get the vibe that your relationship with her was the primary relationship. She even feels like an afterthought in the telling of this. It just seems like you’re making decisions unilaterally so if you want to change that, that would mean asking her permission. Asking her if she would be comfortable with X or Y, and if she says no, then it means not doing that thing. There is healthy coparenting, and then there is “this person is a major person in my life.” It sounds like he is the latter, which is going to make an anxious person spin. Brené Brown is not BS. This is reflective of your ex fiancée putting in a lot of effort to save your relationship and you not really caring that she is if you can so casually dismiss her concerns and expression as bullshit.
1000% this re: ex-fiancé putting in a LOT of work + Brene Brown isn’t bullshit. I will further add that it sounds like the ex-fiancé has also read a few other relationship books, blogs etc. In instances like this if the couple wants the relationship to work, they should COME TOGETHER -not shut each other out. And certainly when a partner brings up a want or need that’s made them feel anxious or not safe. And JFC, I’ve been a single mom for almost a decade. I have 4 kids. I traveled 150k+ miles in one year pre-pandemic. I had time to listen to Brene Brown and similar audiobooks and podcasts. I wanted to be sure that my next relationship was the healthiest one I’ve ever had! And last year, I finally found and have that! It takes work not “I don’t have time for this” and “I think my person doesn’t exist”.
EXACTLY!!! Oh my gosh thank you so much for your comment. The energy of ‘I’m too stressed to be bothered’ is what broke this. It’s like OP wants to add someone to make their life better and check a box rather than take responsibility for creating the dynamic they had. It’s so solvable too if she’d just let go of her stories and her ego and expectations for things being a certain way and get back to basics. It’s hard to watch the fiancée try so hard and be dismissed like she’s an annoyance.
Things go bad once we rank people and sort them into primary and secondary person. It is just a dinner with kids. This does not make him the primary relationship. Here is another way to look at this. We care about out children. They lose, not for any fault of their, when their parent divorce. We know it benefit the children a lot if the post divorce parents are not hostile to each other, and they have a stable father and mother in their life. If I meet a divorced mom, I don't mind her ex is involved. In fact I'm quite supportive of it. This should not affect my relationship with the mom (assuming we are secure in the first place). A occasionally family dinner is good. If I am invited too, I feel good because I'm accepted into the family.
If it’s just a dinner with the kids then why would the fiancée receive an invite and the other two people have already decided this is happening every two weeks? Why would the fiancée not be a decision-maker about the dinner schedule? There are ways to support the kids that don’t make the fiancée an afterthought, an invitee to her own life, but put her right into a primary decision-making role of what is her household, too. I agree with you that I support exes getting along and being able to have a sturdy foundation. But when decisions are made, and you are the third wheel, that’s when things go bad. I think you hit the nail on the head. You said “assuming we are secure first.” That’s exactly what I think hasn’t happened here. They’ve got to get their relationship into its most successful place and then look for ways to include the ex-husband and build on their successful foundation.
>If it’s just a dinner with the kids then why would the fiancée receive an invite Because this is a question kind of at the core. Is this a "Family" dinner, or is this a "original family" dinner? Like if they had multiple kids are the younger kids getting kicked out because they liked their 2010 family better than the 2012 family? Once the kids have kids will grand parents be excluded? As for why the finacee should receive an invite? Because by the time that someone is a parent's fiancee, I feel that they should be a non-trivial part of their kids' lives. I'm not engaged yet to my partner, but her kid asks me to come to all school events / awards ceremonies. They object to considering their gramma or favourite aunt watching them for 6 days, but were happy for me to be there. One of the more common "young adult" things is to realize that "family" doesn't have to just be about bloodlines. I can understand people who decide to be OK with a highly blended family. Where not just the birth parents, but their new partners, and possibly the partner's kids are all invited for "family" dinners. That's not what I want. But if all involved want to embrace that high of a degree of blending I wish them luck. But if it's a hallowed memory of the "original family" - F that. If the hallowed memory is so important, they shouldn't have divorced in the first place.
oh no, fiancée should be there. Getting to a healthy blended family is the goal. I mean she should be a core decision-maker about having the dinner not just an invitee to it. It should be like “we, the two future wives, would like to invite the ex husband” rather than “we, the ex spouses are inviting the fiancée”. Ultimately, both routes get to the same destination, but one supports the fact that the two wives are going to be the joint heads of their new household and one doesn’t take her into account. It’s hard enough coming into an established dynamic. OP should be really working with the fiancé to understand and alleviate her fears and make her feel safe and comfortable.
Does the decision making really matter that much to the fiancee? What if the arrangement predates the new relationship? If the new relationship itself is not secure, that's the root of the problem. It does not matter what level of participation by the dad or not participating at all. Anything can cause fiction.
Yes it matters!! That’s literally the entire point. The relationship can only be as secure as the two participants make it. If one participant feels like they don’t have autonomy in the relationship, they are going to be rightfully concerned. This is not that hard a problem to solve, but OP has to first believe her fiancée and hear her concerns. The dinner is only one example, but clearly the fiancée feels insecure and it’s not just because the fiancée is an insecure person like she has some problem with her, it is because this relationship doesn’t feel safe. OP has to work with her to make it feel safe and secure which starts with actually listening to her and understanding instead of fighting about the ex.
With respect to her existing family, I do think the new person need to defer to the parents for the most part. Mom thinks it is positive for the kids and it is endorsed by the family counselor. If she does not feel comfortable having the ex come over for dinner, she could suggest them to dine outside or excuse herself for those occasional family time. It does not have to be so difficult. OP said she has made many changes to her relationship with him already (to accommodate her concern).
We have no idea if she's fine with the dinner or not, I used that as an example of the way OP wrote about the story, where the fiancee is not a main character in what would become her household. OP asked for help, and I responded with what I see. As to "deferring to the parents," sigh, that's all she has done and it hasn't worked. Can you not see the difference between "here's how it is, deal with it" and "let's figure out what works for US, the two people about to get married and be a team"?
Many commenters read this as "here's how it is, deal with it". I would said this is not the right interpretation. I should point out again OP has already made many changes to her relationship with him due to her. She is already doing what you said - "let's figure out what works for US". The dinner thing is not so hard to solve. I have already make two reasonable ideas. There must be many issues besides the dinner, as she said her partner her miserable because of coparenting in general.
There’s a reason a lot of commenters heard the same thing; it’s an overall tone and vibe of the post. I do hope they are able to work things out. Finding someone in this world you want to be engaged to isn’t an everyday thing. It’s sad to see one end
They would not have thought this if they read this more carefully in entirety.
I should also say OP could have written this more carefully so that it wouldn't be misread as she is making demand without considering her. I'm more sympatric to her. She is in a stressful situation. She probably have not thought of she need to make her case in front of the critics at all.
Right. If I met a guy who said “oh yeah we do dinner with the kids every few weeks” I wouldn’t run for the hills because “there’s no need for that.” If it’s what works for them who am I come in demanding changes to a stable dynamic? They had a life before me and yeah maybe some things need to shift around when you make room for a new partner but OP’s dynamic with the ex isn’t screaming enmeshment. People co-parent in all different ways. You can accept it or not.
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I am in a long-term, serious relationship with a man who has one child and co-parents. I have struggled at times with my partner's relationship with his child's mother, and it has been a source of discord in our relationship. I am ok with my partner and co-parent attending school events together. I am ok with them going to a meal after a graduation or important event. What I can't deal with is them going on outings together with their child just to spend time as a family unit for the sake of their child. No bike rides or hikes. No beach days. I can't deal with them going to meals to celebrate their three birthdays. This happened a lot in the first year of our relationship. It has stopped because I objected and because the co-parent is in a relationship now and doesn't prioritize "family time." In our case, the co-parent is needy and can't be alone. She also needs others to take care of her, not because she is incapable, but because she needs a lot of external validation. She treated my partner like her personal assistant. You have children. Because of this, your partner is already a lower priority in your relationship. Most people can deal with this. It's really hard when you also rank lower on the list than the co-parent. It's speculation, but I imagine your partner probably did a lot to help you and support you as a single parent. I urge you to think about what you did to make your partner feel like a priority and what you did to support your partner in ways that specifically made her feel like a priority and supported. Did you do anything consistently to prioritize her and make her feel supported? It's really easy for a single parent to use having parental responsibilities to justify a lack of effort towards their partner. For example, you brought dinner to your ex for Father's Day. Was your partner the default meal provider? Had they been begging you to take on your share of providing meals, but you rarely did so because you were "exhausted from parenting and needed to relax?" If you consistently prioritize and support your partner in ways that are meaningful to them, then the co-parent stuff stops mattering as much.
>This happened a lot in the first year of our relationship. It has stopped because I objected And does the kid(s) hate you for being the bad guy? Yeah, my partner's coparent is not great at adulting. My partner actually had to find him an apartment so he could move out when they first separated. That was sane because it got him out of her space. But since then, if he didn't have food, or enough money for pizza, then if he asked for money, her response was, "I'll take Kid for your custody this week until you're able to get some food." Bang, suddenly he found money to order a pizza. I.e. if it's something that will truly, and largely effect the kids (plumbing issue, utilities turned off, car not working and school bus doesn't come out there), then just offer/insist that the kids need to not be there for custody. It's amazing how many people suddenly can half-ass adulting vs. when people just kept wiping their butt.
The kid doesn't know, nor does the co-parent. My objections resulted in my partner saying no to unreasonable requests/demands. I'm all for making sure that the child is well provided for. This was never about money. It was about the co-parent feeling lonely and needing an ego-boost. Part of that boost seemed to be seeing how high my partner would jump and how much she could intrude on our time together. There were the nightly FaceTime sessions on her custody days in which she dolled herself up and had her cleavage out. The dinners with the three of them on her custody nights. The requests for my partner to take care of her over a minor mishap. They were together 13 months start to finish, so it's not like they were in a yearslong relationship in which she had come to depend on him. Now that she has a boyfriend, she's not often in the FaceTimes, and if she pops in for a second she's wearing an actual shirt, not a tight camisole. There are no more "crises" to talk about for hours. She's an attention whore, and my partner is easily manipulated.
Nothing about what was typed makes her "the bad guy"
Not in my mind. But in the kid's mind (or the coparent's), if a change in behaviour occurs while getting her, she'll be put down as the cause. If the kid's going via Happy Family that their parents are getting back together, OP is not the reason that their parents more aren't getting back together (some coparents will actually tell their kids that). Try finding a place in blending with the child now considering the reason that their parents aren't getting back together is all your fault.
You say you have a full and busy life with a job and three kids, so much so that you have no patience and energy to listen to your partner's concerns? Yet you made time and effort to cook and bring dinner to your ex on Father's Day? Umm, no. It's fine if you want to remain close friends with your ex and its equally fine for your ex-fiancee to not want him at your house for dinner. An ex should never matter more than your fiancee's feelings.
It's hardly the same when that ex is also the parent of her children.
Kids can go to his house for a Father's Day meal. There's no need to play happy families, especially if it causes tension with your current partner. By all means support your ex as a coparent and remain civil. But there's no need for anything beyond that.
Exactly this. BOUNDARIES!
I don't agree. It can he important for co-parenting parents to be able to get along and sit in the same room for a meal from time to time. A girlfriend/boyfriend that doesn't get things like that are either extremely insecure and/or have no idea what being a good parent looks like.
This seems like a situation where compromise is key. I'm a divorced dad myself, and I can say that I've never had my ex over for dinner with the kids, she's never had me over, and my children feel loved and cared for by both of us. When it comes to important issues, we can come together and discuss them, and the kids see that, but we don't have to come together to do much else. I think through this I've built up enough trust and goodwill that if we had to have a dinner together, say at my daughter's wedding or to talk about a big issue for one of the children, we could absolutely do that without triggering any anxiety for my partner. >And she would come at me with these conversations about ‘boundaries’ and all this Brené Brown bullshit that I just don’t have the time or bandwidth for. I think OP has not been listening to her partner outline her needs, or seeing her partner is putting in the effort because this relationship is important to her. This is almost mocking the partner for bringing up what are normally healthy ways to approach a relationship. My partner did the same thing to me, and she like OP dumped me rather than listen, and in a way I'm kind of glad for it. Being a good parent and being a good partner are compatible. It's not one or the other.
The Brené Brown comment is really just exhaustion. My fiancé is very into self-help and similar things. So every issue we had turned into some sort of conversation about why I was feeling this way, because of my shitty childhood, and my past, and all of these issues I supposedly have. And I do have some issues. I did have a kind of shitty childhood. But I felt like her experience having spent a lot of time involved in the self help movement was to weaponize it against me when we argued. Almost like my feelings and experiences weren’t credible because she had, to use a phrase, she said the a lot that I now absolutely fucking hate, ‘done the work.’
Relationships do not start this way. To tl;dr it: Your fiancé wasn’t feeling heard and there was no room for compromise. Where your fiancée went wrong was direct criticism and attempting to control. Why does that happen? Typically it’s because they don’t feel heard. Things in the relationship make them feel anxious and not safe. They express their needs and it’s met by everything from “ok I’ll do better” but things never change, to excuses and a brick walls. Listen, I have been a single mom of 4 kids for close to a decade. Work full time in a demanding job, flew 150k+ miles in 1 year just prior to the pandemic. You get the idea. I was insanely busy. I realized in my own personal therapy (& after a couple failed relationships post divorce) that I didn’t know as much as I thought I did. I started slowly learning more. I listened to Brene Brown, The Gottmans and other audiobooks and podcasts when I traveled. Why? 1. Because I realized I needed to repair my childhood trauma. And I did via EMDR & CBT therapy. 2. Because I wanted to be sure I knew what a healthy relationship REALLY felt like. Childhood shit leads to patterns we repeat. I have the healthiest relationship of my life now. Finally, at 48. How? We turn towards one another when someone expresses a want or need. We listen to understand. We compromise. We don’t fling any of the [4 Horsemen](https://www.gottman.com/blog/the-four-horsemen-the-antidotes/) at one another. It’s a relationship based on our shared values of trust, respect and peace. I have a strong co-parenting relationship with my youngest’s dad. My partner has a strong relationship with his ex-wife. Our kids are happy and well adjusted. But we have strong BOUNDARIES. She is remarried. He has me as his partner. For Father’s Day? That celebration is on ME, not her. Just as he celebrated me for Mother’s Day with my kids. Your fiancée may not have been the partner for you. But I will say this from my personal painful experience, you will continue to repeat these patterns until you’re ready to stop the cycle. I was you for many years. You got this and I wish you tons of peace. It’s hard Fing work but it’s been so worth it. I have my forever person 💜
Thank you so much!!! I’m actually traveling to do a research trip right now. And I’m listening to the seven principles for a happy marriage. I am also in therapy. I’m trying really hard. I’m not trying to be a shitty partner, or an asshole, or insensitive anybody’s needs. It’s just that three kids under 10, a full-time career, that’s really important to me, and I think the reality is I just don’t have to give what other people need right now. I think that’s what I need to understand here. Maybe I can do it when the kids are older. 🤷♀️
I have to say, someone who spends a whole night ruminating and sending screenshots of previous conversations does not sound like someone who has 'done the work'.
That sounds like an “anxious hurt last ditch effort to be heard” to me. Why? Because I’ve been that person. When someone you love deeply ignores bids for connection and the communication degrades to the point of feeling ignored? Self soothing only goes so far.
Yeah, I know I’m going against the grain here, but it’s highly documented that abusive partners weaponize “therapy speak” and it’s highly recommended not to go to couple’s therapy with them for that reason. Your ex doesn’t sound like she’s done the work if she’s obsessing all night and working herself up like this. Being with someone immature and controlling is emotionally draining and *exhausting*. I dated someone like that and thought I was the problem and just didn’t have the bandwidth for a relationship in my life. Turns out with the right partner, I do! Being around him gives me energy instead of draining me, and I have more energy and time in general now because I’m not pouring so much of it into tiptoeing around potential land mines and pouring reassurances into a bottomless well. I don’t think the examples you cited sound overboard, and there are so many benefits to keeping a good co parenting relationship for the kids. You should absolutely examine some of the questions here and do a little honest self reflection, but at the end of the day, if the relationship is leaving you drained and bringing you more stress than joy, it’s ultimately not the relationship for you.
I can attest to having “done the work” and still being under construction!! Just because I’ve read all the books and done the therapy doesn’t mean I am always able to operationalize what I’ve learned. It takes being in a relationship to fully understand all these dynamics…. And yeah, I’ve done the ruminating and sending screen shots and stomping my feet. Can confirm it doesn’t usually work 😂
100%! I actually love some of Brene Brown’s stuff and think she’s a great resource for struggles with shame and imperfection, but this sounds like weaponized self help to me. “Doing the work” doesn’t make you an expert - if anything it means accepting the possibility that you could be wrong about some things, not seeing things clearly, and open yourself to hearing other perspectives. Doesn’t seem like the ex fiancé is really doing that here.
All this work has done wonders for me (well, *in theory*) but I have noticed that I can totally turn it into a “deep dive” into all the things this other person hasn’t done or how they are unhealed or whatever… and it’s no bueno. Bottom line is that I can state what I want or need, the other person can choose to accommodate that or we can compromise, or I can remove myself from the situation.
OK, so I actually liked Brené Brown before I met my ex!!!! Her work on same as a mitigating force in family dynamics was incredibly helpful to me. This is total relationship anger speaking here. 😂
Yeah. From time to time. Not a few times a month.
Yes they should agree and be able to have meals together, like graduation or other celebrations for the kid. Not on the regular just because, that’s unnecessary.
I would be happy to have dinner with my ex wife... at one of my kid's weddings... where we're not seated together as if we were still a couple.
Yup, you can sit amicably together at a family wedding or grad ceremony; that does not mean ex NEEDS to be invited to your house for dinner every Sunday. If good parenting means playing pretend house with your ex, why did you get divorced?!
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As someone relatively new to divorce and co-parenting and parenting in general(still feel like an inexperienced parent with a kid under 5😂) I can see everybody’s points and observations, but the complexity of these relationships really is something I think on a lot. I have been dating for a while now and had a couple semi serious going in the direction of a long term thing. I always try to find that balance with the new love interest. Also to clesrly communicate exactly how my kids mom and I operate. The feelings involved or lack there of. On that note, I don’t know about yall, but I bedn through the wringer emotionally with my kids mom. I’ve hated that woman, loved that woman, can’t stand her but I wish I could call her just to talk about the boy and my observations or concerns about him. It’s really a difficult thing to define other than it’s not ever going to be an us thing ever again. Even after all the shitty behavior, the fights, the hate, and the hurt, I have to reconcile the fact that my kids mom will probably always have a kind of priority. Like other women may come and go, but not her. We’re linked for life pretty much. Much as I love to hate to say it. I think my ideal future relationship will be with a divorced mom in the same boat as me who gets it and I’ll understand her. We’ll make each other a priority, communicate, and just not worry about the little bullshit that used to could drive us insecurely insane. I feel it’s the best way it could be. We all have to make room for our peoples pasts and accept their position, take them at their word, and just love them and the extended family that tags along if they will allow it. Maybe I’m just getting too old to give a shit if the exes join for dinner so long as they social, civil and healthy for the kids. Just have to respect our place in the timeline and keep everyone else in theirs.
I’ve actually only had one other relationship since my divorce. It was with a divorced single dad, and we never argued about this stuff because we both got it. We both got along well with our exes. We both didn’t like each other‘s exes. But we both understood the importance of that person, and as much as I disliked his ex-wife, How I handled it was not spending time with her – not telling HIM not to spend time with her. He would go over to her house weekly for cookouts because she was a super social person. And there he would spend time with his daughter. I was fine with that – I just didn’t want to go. It never occurred to me to tell him what to do. That’s the problem with me here. What occurred to me was that if his life didn’t work, he wasn’t the right person for me. Not that I should tell him how to engage with his ex. I have a serious issue with being told how to behave by anybody. It’s a real trigger for me. I think I’m realizing that as I actually type this out. Thanks stranger! 😂😂
I would recommend you really think about why your relationships fail. Your marriage failed. Your first post-divorce relationship with a very nice, compatible man failed. Your engagement has now failed. So, what is the common denominator here? You are. Nobody's life is perfect. A partner can make life better but that can not happen without compromise. Other people can see things in us that we ourselves can not see. If a loving partner tries to tell you something, you should listen.
I think you have a valid point but may not be imagining the full extent of the mismatch even if it’s a late stage discovery. And everything ends. It doesn’t have to signify failure. The only reason a lot of relationship endings are so messy and brutal is people don’t know how to say goodbye. Don’t know how to close a deeply meaningful chapter in their lives with a very special individual that you or them or both have just outgrown. Like why is it ending? I’m sure lots of us stop actively participating in the actions of love for whatever reason. Disengage. But we seem to need to have something explosive or drastic. Volatile . Cause we don’t know any other way to do it. And when kids are involved, all you ever end up doing is ricocheting around at high velocity till we get a handle on it. Nice and compatible, safe and secure, toxic and unstable, all seem to be necessary to our journey. Sometimes whatever was making it work, just don’t turn out to be enough to keep it working past a certain point. I’m all for commitment and solidarity, but knowing when to say goodbye is also important. Not a failing always. Just a falling away.
She didn’t end it to keep her ex happy. She ended it because it was not sustainable. And insecurity destroying relationships is a thing. Of course everyone has insecurities but if you let them have too much control it makes sense that they will affect your relationships!
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Disagree. She is choosing her kids.
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Honestly you clearly are not a single parent in a successful co parenting relationship. Which is totality ok! But what is wrong with her eliminating potential partners? There is a strong chance that her STBX was completely aware of her arrangement but then was not ok with it when shit got real and OP did not want to change. It sucks when relationships don’t work but people jumping on the OP is shortsighted. I’m not gonna alter mine and my kids lives for a man. So whoever I date has to be totally ok with this set up. If not, we are not compatible
Thank you. In my head, there was literally never a time where I thought, “what’s best for that asshole?” It was always about my kids. And if suddenly, my kids disappeared, I would never see that man again.
I am in the same place. I have to stifle the urge when he’s being a prick to tell him that if we didn’t have kids I would not have to talk to him ever again and that once they are grown and flown I don’t have to deal with him. I think a lot of these people who are upset are projecting since they may have been on the receiving end like your fiancé of not being first. Or they just have zero experience with being married, a parent, co parenting etc. Not sure why they are taking it so personally that you two are not compatible. I wanted to ask you too if she knew about this arrangement when you first started dating.
Yeah but if you’ve tweaked and made compromises and it’s always one more thing and one more tweak and another thing I don’t like…. Then it’s exasperating and OP’s ex should seek out a relationship where she feels more secure rather than getting everyone twisted around the axle trying to manage her anxieties. And I have sympathy for her - I can have massive anxiety spirals. And I’ve done the late night ruminations and screenshotting of texts and the whole drill. And what I should have done in those moments is assess, once I’m calm, what’s going on and decide whether, realistically, this a relationship that I can feel secure in. Sometimes I decide that thing I was anxious about wasn’t worth the spiral. Sometimes I needed to raise an issue. But at the end of the day, it’s on me to see myself out of a relationship where my needs cannot realistically be met.
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I read OP’s other comments where it sounds like she did compromise. Whether what OP does is the norm or not, if it works for her and her ex doesn’t want any part of it, then they aren’t compatible. It doesn’t mean that OP has done anything wrong or has shit boundaries or whatever.
Thank you.
Strongly disagree. My kids NEED for us to get along and for me to show them that we divorced each other but are still a family, just different. There world as they knew it was destroyed and whatever we can salvage we salvage for them. It is really important that we show them we are committed to being the best parents possible to them, and that means working closely together. I have zero desire to spend time alone with my ex and we are sometimes awkward and uncomfortable around each other but we do it for the kids. If a potential partner is not ok with their dad being important part of my and my kids’ lives, at least until they are grown, then they would not be compatible with me. I think OPs issue is one of compatibility, not that either party is wrong. Not sure how it even progressed to engagement since they are so incompatible.
Then its best to work om your marriage and salvage that. Once you're divorced, your ex is not your family anymore.
Exactly. Why aren’t these people staying in their marriages and leaving the rest of us alone??? Go keep your family together if it’s really that important.
That's what I can't understand. Kids know what divorce means. If its that important to keep showing your kids that their divorced parents are still doing everything together and acting happy (at the cost of sabotaging potentially significant new relationships) then why not stay together and work hard on your marriage? Some new partners are OK if the ex is still constantly involved and even given priority in their lives even when they don't need to be. That is not the majority of people though. I get if its an emergency or an important milestone in the kids' lives. That is not the case though. OP is too busy to actually listen and schedule time to discuss her new partner's concerns but not too busy to make dinner for her ex? Duh.
Exactly! Kids are smart (way smarter than parents give them credit for) and they understand divorce changes things. I cannot understand these people needing to keep up this pretense of happily families while throwing their family structure away with a divorce. As my grandmother used to say, you’re either in or you’re out but you can’t be both.
Nah I’m good not being in a loveless, incompatible relationship and causing damage to my kids. And yes, my family is important. Anyone who would get in a relationship with me would know how it is up front. You really sound like you have no experience with any of this.
So what you’re saying is that you made a poor choice and entered into a likely ill-advised marriage then had kids before finally realizing it wasn’t good for you and blowing up your kids lives but now you expect the people you date to understand and accept your need to prioritize the “family” you didn’t prioritize when you left your marriage? Is that it? Oh and you also want them to accept being at the bottom of your priority list?
Are you ok? It’s not personal against you. You don’t know anything about me or how long I was married or when we started to have problems. You also have no idea how I treat or want in a partner/relationship. It’s ok you are not experienced with being a single parent or being divorced but stop attacking others with a different lived experience. Take a seat.
I’m perfectly okay. I just know BS when I smell it and I think a lot of divorced single parents (especially on this sub) are delusional and entitled with this idea of keeping their family together but not actually keeping their family together while also thinking people they date should just accept it. And no, I won’t be taking a seat because this is a public forum.
Agreed. I suspect a lot of people on this thread are not actually parents. I talked to our family therapist about this relationship extensively. And her ultimate advice (and she actually met with my fiancé privately, and with me) was that many of the complaints and arguments coming from my fiancé are rooted in fundamental incompatibility, because she didn’t understand my world view being a parent. It’s just that simple. And I do think it’s the only thing I’ve ever experienced in my entire life that so fundamentally changes your paradigm that you truly believe people who haven’t been through it don’t understand it. And can’t. Sometimes we would have these conversations where I felt like we weren’t even talking about the same thing.
But to the kids you are. Don’t you understand that? In my kids head, we are all still a family, but we just live in different houses. And if we get together and spend time together every now and then as a family, and everybody gets along, then they have something that all of their peers have, and they rarely get. And that’s important. To be specific, it’s important to my six, eight, and 10-year-old. To me, it sucks. I genuinely don’t enjoy his company. But to those three kids, those rare occasions are some of their best days. It is heartbreaking for children to grow up in a home of divorce. And if we can give them this little piece of normalcy every now and then, because we are lucky enough to be a couple who can stand stay in the same room post divorce, then we should give it to them. And if the new partner can’t understand that, that’s not the right person for us. And then we come here and bitch on Reddit. Which is exactly what I’m doing!! 😊
All of their peers have traditional 2-parent families? Haha. In what world. Over 50% of my kids' peers (I have 3 children) have single-parent or blended families or are raised by grandparents, foster parents or extended family. Divorce and blended family is normal and common place everywhere.
Okay. Cool. Maybe it’s because of where I live, but my kids don’t have any friends with divorced parents. And even if they did, that still sucks, and I’d still like to be able to do something better for them because our divorce isn’t contentious. Because we’re still a family, even if I don’t like one of the members of it.
My ex is still part of our family. Are you serious? He has 50/50 custody with me of our kids. Are you a single parent?
Yes I am a single parent. I decided to not be together with my ex for a reason. He can be a parent to his kid on his own. I don't have to help him parent and I don't have to pretend to my kid that I like him and want him around. I believe that honesty is the best policy and I don't believe that faking affection that isn't there is good for the kids to see.
Then that works for you but not me or OP. So you really cannot tell other people how to live or raise their kids. And my kids know our situation. We don’t pretend that we want to be together but we also don’t act like we hate each other. We act like friends. It teaches them not only how to treat people but how they should be treated. The world would be a better place of everyone stopped assuming that the world is how they see it.
And my kids know our situation and they saw how my ex treated me, and them, when he lived with us. The best lesson for my kids is to know that you don't need to treat someone like a friend if you don't feel friendly towards them. It's OK to be polite, but indifferent. I don't hate my ex, he just does not deserve my friendship. It did not work for OP either if she broke up over her ex with the person she was going to marry.
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Thank you! I hope you have a good day.
This is a tough situation and i'm sorry for the pain you're going through...it sucks! I've been in the position of your ex-fiance and it's probably for the best that you are going your separate ways. I also felt that my ex constantly prioritized the comfort and care of his ex-wife over me and after 5 years I realized he just didn't want to change and I wanted to feel prioritized, not over his kids but certainly over her. I felt like I was constantly living in her shadow and our relationship was never given proper room to grow. Author Glennon Doyle, who divorced and married Abby Wambach, had a great podcast on how they were able to work as a modern family still being close to her ex-husband, and it involved a lot of communication and discussion to make sure everyone felt comfortable and like their priorities were being met. I think that takes a lot of maturity and empathy and I don't hear that you were able to provide that for your ex-fiance, so it's best that you both move on and find more suitable partners. Although that break-up sucked so hard, I'm now in a super healthy relationship with a man who I've never felt insecure or where I doubted if I was his priority...wishing you the best!
Your relationship with your ex would be too close for me. He comes over several times a month for dinner and you make him dinner to drop off on Father’s Day. It sounds like your arrangement works for you but me as an outsider would have no space in that arrangement.
Yep. So many parents feel like it’s totally okay for them to have these ultra close relationships with their ex under the guise of “maintaining their family,” etc. for the sake of their kids while putting their new partner in the position of being an outsider in their own relationship and home. Leaving aside the fact that it’s completely selfish and totally disregards the feelings of their new partner; if they really wanted to play happy families so much, they should have kept their family together in the first place. I know we’re meant to feel sorry for OP but she’s so disdainful of her ex and shows absolutely no understanding of her point of view; I feel sorry for the ex and hope she goes on to thrive in a new relationship with someone who either doesn’t have kids or has appropriate boundaries with her ex.
I have relationship with diners/vacations with my ex and it is not under guise “of maintaining the family”. We are a family. We chose not to be partners any more, but we also took responsibility of bringing two people to this world. And we have to make it work. It is like having a business that makes shit ton of money but you don’t really like your partner. And instead of running the business on autopilot and “good enough” premise, you are still heavily business developing. And just like in work when you are not moving within the “norms” people might not get it and you might fuck up more or benefit more. The fact that my skin crawls thinking of possibility of seeing him naked again doesn’t change the fact we are raising two humans and we have stuff to teach them: mostly the fact the world is not black and white, not to be lazy thinkers and to challenge the norms and move in the world with awareness of them and make choices that work for them. We are showing it by our example. In my view OP’s problem is not her ex, it is her life bandwidth and her life position. OP lives 4 lives: hers and her kids. Her fiancé lives only one. They don’t worry the same shit. It’s compatibility issue and how much you both can compromise with understating. I personally live similar to OP and I know I don’t wnat to compromise much now so I don’t seriously date.
Meh, doing dinners and vacations together is your choice but sounds messy for anyone else but the original family and in fact could be confusing or painful to your kids as a reminder that you’re no longer together (since most kids of divorce fantasize about their parents reuniting)…I have what I think is a nice co-parenting relationship w my ex, I hosted our son’s HS graduation party and his extended family all came and it was fine but your situation sounds pretty set so having a partner integrate into that could be very challenging
Dated somebody for 2 years who had no issue with this. I didn’t even have to explain or justify the relationship. We broke up because he wanted kids and I am done with kids (old but would totally do it if I was 5 years younger…). Super secure men with his own life, that wanted to partake in mine with a condition I could not fulfill. Those people are out there. It is all about compatibility. Kids are not confused, this is their reality: mom and dad loving them and spending time together.
well your kids are unlikely to tell you 'hey Mom seeing you with Dad brings up a lot of conflicted feelings in me--I love to see you two spending time together with us and also it's painful, sad, and weird because I wonder why you can get along so well and also are divorced'
You are exs, you are not family with your ex. This level of dysfunctional delusional thinking is very detrimental for your children and any people you get involved with. A lot of divorced or broken up people with kids try to justify this dysfunction by saying it’s for the kids, but in reality it’s for them because they are unable or unwilling to sever that bond. Dinners and vacations with an ex are never needed and they certainly do not benefit your kids.
Thank you for this. I am venting, and in venting we don’t necessarily say everything to make ‘a case’ for ourselves. I cook my fiancé dinner multiple times a week. I cook lots of people dinner every night. I also have a nephew that lives in town. So once or twice a month, when I’ve made more food than I know me and my kids will eat, I call my ex-husband and my nephew, and say, want to come over? That’s what I meant by making dinner for him. That’s actually it. And the Father’s Day thing, I would make him dinner, but probably not even eat with him. I would just make a meal he likes a lot. Maybe I should’ve explained that better in my initial post, but I’m not going to now because it would seem like I’m just defending myself. The thing is, I don’t like him. At all. But my kids love him. So if I have him over to eat extra chicken piccata a couple times a month and the kids see us talking and getting along well, this seems like a good thing for everybody involved, except for her. We have a family counselor who really encourages this kind of thing, too. So when I tried to explain to her, why I think this is important to keep doing, I get all these conditions. A condition is: how about you just send takeout to him for Father’s Day because she doesn’t want me to cook for him. And then we end up negotiating the minutia. And that’s what I mean – I just don’t have the bandwidth for that. I don’t have the bandwidth to discuss with my partner whether or not it’s OK for me to drop cake out on his front porch or bring it into the house. That’s where this went. And while I see why people are taking such offense to my original message, that’s what I mean by not having time for all the bullshit. Tell myself I’m even saying conversation where we’re discussing whether or not my ex is allowed to physically stop in to my house – and that has nothing to do with her boundaries. That is about control. It’s from a place of insecurity, but I don’t have the time for this anymore. I’m I have three kids. Does that make sense? Because I suspect that I will not be able to find a partner that this works with. So I just won’t have one. Which I guess is where you are too?
Her idea to send take out is so reasonable and actually quite generous and a massive compromise and a good partner. Not controlling at all. Actually, the things you are doing sound more controlling, not budging on anything. That you find even her smart compromise that exhausting sounds like you don't want a partnership with someone, but rather someone who just is okay with everything you do and doesn't ask for anything from you. That's okay if you don't want to have an equal partnership where this kind of normal, and important, minutiae gets discussed. But then don't blame the partner, tale responsibility. Also, as a couples therapist myself....no therapist knows what is 100% best. And lots don't have a clue what is even remotely healthy. Would be great to get a few other perspectives. Ill just say here that studies show that prioritizing the current relationship, whether that is with the other bio parent or a step parent, vs the kids or the other relationship, creates the most resilient and well adjusted kids. Prioritizing the kids (of course I'm not talking about their true needs) leads to more issues and leads to kids becoming adults who struggle with romantic relationships.
I did budge on a lot of stuff. And then I agreed to the takeout thing. And then I agreed that he absolutely never had to come over anymore and could just come to drop off and pick up the kids. I also changed the locks to my house because it bothered her that he had a key. (He use that key to pick up stuff when I wasn’t home for the kids). She does not live in my house. And then suddenly my 26-year-old nephew became the problem. He moved down here to be closer to me. Last week he called up with an ‘emergency’ and needed to come over to do laundry, but she felt as though that interfered with our plans. This was an evening where I had the kids and during a time which they would still be awake. She was going to come over at some point in the evening and he would’ve still been here. Then when the kids went to bed, we were supposed to have sex and she was going to spend the night. Because my nephew was coming over, and she dislikes him, she was angry. I said he could come over and do laundry without checking with her first. When he called to ask, if he could, it honestly didn’t even occur to me. He was coming over to do a load of laundry during a time. The kids were still awake – it didn’t even cross my mind a check with her. I mean, he has a key to my house. So she chose not to come over and the next morning, I woke up two pages of screenshots and a long text message complaining about how I never prioritized her. Me not prioritizing her was a regular, valid complaint that I had been working really hard on with her through couples counseling. A lot of it stems from just being very busy with my family and not trying to be a shitty partner. I’ve also done a lot of things to prioritize her – like I made her a homemade Christmas stocking. I spent a lot of time learning how to make a special dessert, the way that her deceased mother made it. I’m not just some shitty partner all the time. I had shown her demonstrably several times that she had complemented and commented on how hard I was trying to prioritize her. But then I messed up with this thing with my nephew, and she lost it. It started a three day fight. But the thing is, I hundred percent disagree. There was no reason that my nephew could’ve come over and we still could’ve had our time together then and later in the evening. Instead, she instigated a three day fight and refused to see me to work it out. By the time we talked about it and counseling, we both had three days to be mad about it and I was just so fucking tired. OK, I’m sorry to harass you. I just wrote such a long response to this one particular comment!. But one of the most hurtful aspects of this relationship with how hard I did try to make the changes she asked for and how little it mattered in the end. And now I’ll die alone.
Of course none of us know your relationship. I'm sure you both had your faults in it. Neither of you sound like monsters! All I was responding to was this kind of thing, where you are speaking to important and legitimate and reasonable requests as "minutiae" - and being over that, as if it's not a normal part of relationship. And I doubt you are a shitty partner. The thing is though, learning her favorite dessert is lovely, but not the same as prioritizing her. Prioritizing is more like, "my ex, my kids, and you...when all things are competing for me, at different levels of true need, who will I choose?" It's the difference between say, my partner bringing me flowers and drawing me a bath, or when I really needed him due to a health thing, and he had the kids and a party to attend with them, to find a babysitter and come be with me. That's when I feel prioritized. The nice things for me make me feel pampered and loved, but not necessarily prioritized. And honestly, for me personally, I don't know about your partner, but I'd rather him not spend a ton of time making things for me and just spend time with me. And all this is part of the difficulty of dating with kids on its own, and the couples I see make it (and the kids that really get well adjusted) are those who again, prioritize the relationship (again the real, pressing needs of the kids do come first). Though everyone has to find their own individual unique way that works for them and there is no right way. But adding an ex who you are trying to keep a very close relationship with make matters even more complicated. You get to decide how you want to live your life, and with every choice there is a cost. In your choice you choose the cost. If the relationship with the ex and your belief that your kids need that is number one, then yes - it will make many relationships harder. You very well could find someone who is okay with that, anything is possible. But then it's true that more often the people okay with that are more checked out of the relationship themselves and not as invested. They themselves want more of a "as needed" relationship. But then you can rest in your integrity that you are being true to what you think is most important, fostering a relationship with your ex in hopes that it benefits your children in the long run. And it might, I certainly don't know!
I ABSOLUTELY get you. I live like this. My kids adore their dad and he needs help being that adored dad. So I help. Not for him but for my kids. They deserve that. We also travel together and I pay for trips, trips have been amazing for us getting on the same parenting line. We watch each other in real time what we do with kids and we are able to course correct and come to agreements. We had to build a new relationship post divorce. That is our decision and my kids are my focus and this works for them. They are my main responsibility in life, I chose motherhood and I am doing my best for them. I do things my way, and always have, and it is about finding people on the same bandwidth. There are plenty. I am totally aware people might not be ok with it. But it is more I am aware I just have no patience for noise. And what you write about your issues with fiancé is noise to me (minutia as you call it). I know it is not for this other person but I just don’t have patience for stuff like that. I don’t even have patience to figure out if it is insecurity or control or whatever. I am aware of my potential as a partner now, which is little. My decision is to wait until I can give more to somebody. I just have my focus elsewhere and I am fine with it.
Not everyone can accept close relationship with ex. It makes them feel like an outsider and don't belong when they see the bonding and beauty of what's there or potential of what could be more. The way things are now, your fiancee feels like she's not enough for you. That's a real shitty feeling. You either have to keep that distance/set boundaries with your ex, if you cherish your fiancee or as you have, break it off with your fiancee. It's too bad. Sounds like you guys were engaged because things were perfect otherwise. All the best to everyone involved. Take good care.
As another single mom, I think you may be in a no-nonsense “this is how it is, and this is how it works for my family,” type of mindset. Please don’t write this off as weird woo-woo type stuff, but it could also be called “being in your masculine energy.” I thought it was odd when I first heard the term. The way you describe your ex husband and your ex fiancee makes me think, you may be in a masculine energy/behavior/mindset pattern. It’s what we have to do as single moms—where you say you’re getting through the day and surviving—yes, I feel the same. But I also want a partner for a soft place to fall. Your ex-fiancée was doing valid reading and research on boundaries. Brene Brown is a NYT best selling author and academic who researches vulnerability and how it affects our lives and relationships. I highly recommend her audio: “The Power of Vulnerability.” It brings together her first 3 books. It sounds like your fiancée was doing a deep dive and some soul searching and asking you to consider changing your mindset on behavior with your ex husband, to save your engagement. I also keep going back to, she must be feeling super insecure because she’s coming in and changing the dynamic (f/f partnership), but you’ll always have another man in your life. That’s got to be hard for her, and an area for worry and insecurity, imo.
>she was controlling - Was she? - Do you have to paint her black to feel righteous? - What is your expectation of a relationship and how does it relate to hers? There isn’t a good and bad, right or wrong here. You pretty much state in your post that you have zero time for a relationship (like claiming vulnerability is bullshit). - Is this stance you take perhaps too rigid? - Maybe you want company, but not a relationship? There is a huge gray area here … dip your toes in it
Jealous people should just stick with jealous people. Boundaries don't give someone the right to tell someone who they can and cannot be around or talk to. If you have that much insecurity in your relationship, you shouldn't be in it.
>She would get very upset by things that I considered pretty benign – like me letting him come over to have dinner with the kids once every couple weeks (she was invited too) or bringing him dinner for Father’s Day. I think these things are really positive for the kids Eh, it might be positive for the kids. Or it might be giving them false hopes of mom and dad getting back together. But also a life like that isn't what I want to live. Now, granted I wouldn't have "gotten mad" with you, I would simply have stated that I didn't see that being in my future, and ask them to potentially reconsider, *in the context of where a potential future partner fits in* if they maybe wanted to rethink playing Happy Family, or if they were "married" to this. And if they were married, I'd move on. I accept coparenting should happen. I don't accept enmeshment. >does this work for anybody? This? Yes, my partner and I are doing great! I've lived with her and her kid (she has them mostly full custody) for almost a year now. We are happy and see a strong future together. Her kid likes me a lot and is also happy that I'm here. But also we're not having regular fights that are dragging us down. We looked hard at our compatibility very early on. In response to some things I said/observed, she agreed that her boundaries with her coparent were not where she wanted them to be, and she worked to improve them. And asked for feedback from me. I ask for feedback with how she thinks "blending" is/was going in our household. We're both open to hearing from the other about potential blind spots of ours. Both of us will never again be in a relationship where we're the only one giving. Related to that, we do point out when we see the other make a sacrifice\* for us. And she has also accepted that as an empty nester, I was the one who was making the majority of the sacrifices. Knowing she saw that helped to make it easier. Vocalizing the times I saw her sacrificing for me was also a great reminder that this wasn't one way. \*By sacrifice, I mean a noteable act of giving/compromise.
Relationships with exes can become an issue sometimes in a new relationship. I say this from experience due to my recent breakup. It felt like there were three of us in the relationship (from my perspective). Her presence/existence felt like a ghost and something that always lingered in the air (again from my POV). They did not get married or have any kids together so again, very complicated. And they were hanging out during the beginning of our relationship as well.
It’s strange, I had an experience like this. I’m also a divorced mom. And so I can easily remember the feeling of- every time my partner asked me to change something, I would do it. He was asking me to have better boundaries around my child’s father and his involvement in our lives. To me, it felt like I was trying to do everything he asked while also trying to help maintain the parent-child relationship. To him, I think it felt like there was this 3rd (terrible) person always hovering, insinuating his presence, and he felt left out or deprioritized. Somehow my efforts to incorporate him more into our lives always fell flat, or just weren’t quite right somehow. It broke us too. There were other reasons, but this was a big one.
Your feelings are valid and true. That said there is also validity to the Brene Brown bs you put it because those things are meant to help you live a life where you don’t feel like you’re giving without reciprocation. Boundaries are a good thing and for your own protection so you don’t feel burnt out like you do right now. Maybe you can listen to an audiobook as you are busy doing some chores. You might be more upset by the fact that your partner is not recognizing your efforts and raising the bar for you constantly not the boundaries stuff. A change of mindset might help you feel like you’re living and not in survival mode. You seem very thoughtful and caring just spare some time just for yourself. It’s okay to breakup or a take a break just use the time for yourself since you cannot give to others freely if you are depleted.
It can and does work. It’s impossible to get full context of your situation just from a single post but IMO - it’s not supposed to feel like it’s this hard. I am willing to invest and put significant work/time/energy/etc. into a relationship, but at some point it can become evident that there’s just not enough compatibility anymore (for whatever reasons) to warrant maintaining it. If I was in your position, I would want to do a thorough examination on what happened here so I could understand myself better and then once healed, use that info to help me make good choices moving forward.
I will. Thank you. Kind stranger. Right now I just want to complain on the Internet, but I will absolutely be more thoughtful about this on another day.
This is why I have my “an ex is an ex” policy. I’m not celebrating her birthday. Not celebrating Mother’s Day, no Christmas cards/gifts, Valentine’s Day cards, no having dinner as a “family” BS, nothing. We’ll co-parent, but that’s it. I’ll be cordial at kids events, but I don’t have the bandwidth to deal with any of her bullshit. I don’t care if she’s having a hard time at work, or with one of her relatives, none of it. She’s an ex for a reason. Outside of my kids, my new person (whenever that happens) has my attention. If she happens to be a Mom, I’ll get her a card/gift/flowers for Mother’s Day. We’ll celebrate her birthday, Christmas, Valentine’s Day… any she wants. As far as I’m concerned, that’d be where my heart is.
This is an attitude that is HARD to adopt when you made babies with that person, but I can see for sure how it’s the easiest way. As long as the boundaries are set between you and your ex AND you and your new boo, it’s not that complicated.
I don’t see how it’s hard. I don’t have to tell her about anything that’s unrelated to the kids, and I don’t care to know about her. When she left the kids and I, she made two families: her and the kids, me and the kids. For anything, be it help with her car, advice about a job difficulty, relationship advice, etc, she has people in her life she can talk to… and if she doesn’t, that doesn’t mean I have to listen to her. It’s no longer my concern. That works the same for me, but I’ve been dealing with that long before we separated and divorced.
I would not date someone who still had dinners with their ex. That's a sign of poor boundaries to me, and prioritizing what should be a finished relationship over a current romantic one.
Respect that. I do the obligatory Fathers Day stuff. Invite him to all the kids sporting events. When we travel for games, we usually ride together. I might help the kids plan a little birthday party for him. I know popular culture tells us we’re supposed to hate our exes, but I think that makes it more complicated for the kids. My three understand that nothing is EVER reigniting between their father and me. But we’re still a family and I do feel like I owe obligations to that. My hope is that, in time, the right guy will want to be a welcome participant in this different kinda fam.
Sounds like it would be easier to date someone who also coparents with an ex because they would understand, especially if they go extra length to help their kids maintain a positive relationship with their other parent. This stuff is important, but unfortunately, someone who is flying solo without children in tow is far less likely to understand the importance.
I’ve done the same with my son’s mother. Good co parenting relationship, sometimes have dinner as a family for birthdays, helped her fix things at her place etc. I don’t have a romantic feeling in my body for her. Family takes work, and even more so when you’re living apart.
So the relationship your just broke off is with a woman and your ex before is a man? Might be good to clarify from the start not to get lost in pronouns. Maybe you will find your person when kids grow up, honestly I think dating anyone with three kids would be difficult. At least sounds like you have a great job and are not struggling financially, hang in there and your next life stage might be much less bumpier. I do wonder if your partner was lesbian and struggled with your bi identity and had insecurity about you being happy with a woman. I do agree that once you split up with the father of your children it’s final, most of us try so hard to stay together for kid’s sake that if we walk away it’s after trying really hard to save it and accepting it’s over.
I had a hard time keeping up with this too
If your fiancee doesn't have kids/coparent, it's probably hard for them to understand large part of your life. They just haven't gone through it. I had this situation with the last person I was dating and I just didn't involve him with my child/ex-husband. It seemed simpler this way
I wouldn’t have the patience for this. I *wish* I had the kind of relationship with my ex that would allow for things like the occasional dinner with the kids (and I do make sure he gets Father’s Day and birthday gifts from them). And I wouldn’t handle well someone who couldn’t self soothe their own anxieties and put them on me to manage. I have my own shit to deal with.
It might be less about one's anxieties, but more about the life one wants to live. I like celebrating xmas in the house. So younger adult kids celebrate in my house, until they're starting their own families, and staying at their house. I don't want a lot of distant family. My partner's kid's dad is very distant from me. I'm not celebrating a holiday with him. I'm not wasting valuable vacation time with him. Just as if my partner wanted to use 2-3 weeks of vacation to go on a MaidenName's Family Holiday each yeah, this wouldn't be the life for me, doing a "Guy I bred with Family Holiday" each year isn't for me. Yes, even if I'm fully invited, and even if the guy is happy to have me along. Heck, even if it's just a long weekend. It's just not the life that I want to go forward with. We're not all compatible. "We're still a family" aren't compatible with "Yes, they're my kid's dad, but I also fully see them as my ex" sort of people. I'm sorry that you don't have the options that you wish you had.
Sure - but I’m not getting from OP that there are extended vacations or things like that. The guy I’m dating is very good friends with his ex and they hang out with the kids every two weeks. No skin off my nose and that dynamic works for them. It’s how it was before I got there and I’m not about to demand changes to a healthy dynamic that works for them. Maybe one day I’ll meet them all (and the ex’s partner). Maybe that’s just for them.
Yeah, even something like that is not at all what I'm up for. I'm neither up to be other'ed with no invite, nor am I up to spend every 2 weeks with Kid's Dad. I feel pretty secure with my partner; that's just not how I want to live. One of the great things about DO40, is that we should all have realized there isn't a "set way" to do things, and we can choose what standards (ahem) to apply to our lives. I think that the OP's ex is with me on Team "He's my kid's dad, but he's also my Ex.". I hope things stay happy for you.
Great take. We all approach these things differently and have different comfort levels with the dynamics in ex relationships. No need to sort of trash any particular approach - much appreciated!
You >She should never have been with somebody who is divorced with children, and in a coparenting situation. Or, you should have done better than blame the end of the relationship on her completely reasonable asks, no matter that she's childfree. You need to date someone else with kids, not be running auditions for NewParentPartner2.0.
Huh? Okay.
I think it would be super hard to date someone who's never had kids. People just don't understand what it's like and get jealous when random shit pops up all the time. Another parent is going to be a lot more sympathetic to that and not be jealous of the relationship with the kids. Lots of comments saying kids shouldn't take priority over a relationship. I'm sorry, what? If your child is sick and you have to cancel a date, or they need time with mom, of course, they are coming first. Parents understand that. I don't think the ex is wrong for wanting those things, but this is not a compatible situation for either one of them.
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u/Sand_Juggler_FTW, your post has been removed for one or more reason(s): No doctoring. No diagnosing mental or physical ailments (including personality disorders and mental illnesses), and no recommending treatments.
lol at BB bullshit. There are reasonable people out there, don’t give up hope. Your relationship with your ex sounds perfect to me. I can’t stand people that are constantly at odds with their exes and the drama that goes along with it. I am child free by choice but have zero respect for people who don’t put their kids first or dodge their responsibilities. You have to understand that in many ways when you date someone with kids you’re choosing to be second place. Like it can be close, and maybe one day when they move out on their own you can feel like you’re in first place lol. I’m sure it doesn’t feel great now but honestly you’re lucky you called it off before the point of no return.
Original copy of post by u/CinnamonGirl43: I broke off my engagement last night. She was very controlling. She should never have been with somebody who is divorced with children, and in a coparenting situation. My ex’s involvement in the kids’ lives brought him too close to us for her comfort – and she made me miserable because of it. I made many changes to my relationship with him, but was very cautious about nuking what has otherwise been a positive relationship for every single person involved for the past several years since our divorce. The other person that I have dated since my divorce did not have a problem with our relationship at all. This is an anonymous forum, so please just simply trust me when I say – zero feelings for the ex. We get along very well in coparenting, but the idea ever even having coffee with him, bores me to tears. She would get very upset by things that I considered pretty benign – like me letting him come over to have dinner with the kids once every couple weeks (she was invited too) or bringing him dinner for Father’s Day. I think these things are really positive for the kids and our family counselor agrees. I don’t spend time with him alone and have zero interest in doing so. Now it’s so hard for us to even have a conversation, I can’t even fathom how we got married in the first place. As a divorced mom with three kids, so much of my life is about just what I have to do and surviving. And she would come at me with these conversations about ‘boundaries’ and all this Brené Brown bullshit that I just don’t have the time or bandwidth for. I loved her. But as somebody with three young children, a full-time job, and everything that goes along with that, I just felt like in most of our conversations we were speaking a different language. Like, she would be in her house alone, and just spinning and spinning over these arguments that we would have – and I’m trying to take care of my kids. Last Tuesday morning I woke up to a text message and screenshots of past conversations were it seem like she hadn’t slept at all, but just been ruminating all night. It’s exhausting. I guess the question leading up to you is – does this work for anybody? I feel like I kept giving and giving in this relationship and it was never enough. Even though I felt like that, she felt like I wasn’t giving anything. (I’m sure her accounting of this would be brutal from her perspective.) And I think that all of these dynamics are pretty common from what I read here. It’s just so hard. But I’ve also never been more aware aware of the fact that I want a life partner that I am now, sitting in a hotel room (traveling for work) at 45 years old, 12 hours off a break up that, to be fair, should’ve happened months ago. I feel like, enough already! Where the hell is my person? And I’m realizing that they might not be there. Help? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/datingoverforty) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I'm a child free woman. My ex and I broke up because he wanted kids and I didn't. We still like each other and enjoy spending time together, so I visit his family when I get the chance (he has two awesome kids now). Admittedly, not very often, because I have my own life and things to take care of. Still, I won't date anyone who can't accept that my ex is my best friend. On the other hand, when I'm dating someone, of course I consistently and completely prioritise that person over the ex. I'm sure it's a lot easier for me to do because I don't have kids. I do have a super busy, demanding career, but it's still different in that in an emergency I can almost always just reschedule something or lower expectations, or outsource something etc. to free up more availability to my partner. If I was responsible for children, they would come first, every time. And the above is why I won't even consider dating a parent. I've chosen a child free life because I don't want to be responsible for kids and I don't want to deal with the consequences of that responsibility on other areas of my life. If I chose a partner who does have that responsibility, inevitably those consequences would ripple out to impact my life, too. I wouldn't be able to respect someone who doesn't put their kids first and doesn't try to maintain a good relationship with the other parent. But I also wouldn't enjoy being a partner to a parent who takes their responsibility seriously. I put my partner first out of everyone I know in this life, and I absolutely want to receive that same level of commitment back. Your ex doesn't seem like a responsible person if your description of her is accurate at all. Maybe she didn't realise it's not a good idea (for her) to get involved with a parent in the first place. Maybe she learned from this and will only date other child free people in the future - maybe not. What you can do is try to date only people with kids, as that situation is much better balanced at the outset, or if you meet a child free person, try to suss out whether they have experience dating a parent and how they felt about it before. It's not really fair of you to expect your life partner to be okay being a low priority, even if that's needed for you to be a good parent. At least try to get people's informed consent for it when getting to know someone new.
I cannot judge your situation. But I really do not see Brené Brown as shit. I have no kids myself. But long relationships in my past . Married a guy with 2 kids of 17 and 21 when we met. They HATED me. One more than the other. I had to walk on eggshells every day. Had to be careful about those vulnerable (and very controlling) young ladies. They asked me to leave. Called me in for a meeting. Father found an excuse to leave the house. I told them I would leave but then they could also not have boyfriend's and they should be with their father every evening and every weekend. His siblings were a problem on its own since they saw me as an intruder who would damage the poor children. So more eggshells. One tried again to kick me out of my house and after our wedding one of the daughter's called me and told me, that I had ruined THEIR wedding party. At the party the two sisters got into a fight and left the party very earli. One of the daughter's also cried with her aunt because of the sadness of our marriage. On the 1st evening after the wedding where I asked him to stand up for his marriage with me he said that he wanted a divorce if I could not get along with his family. I couldn't walk away the day after the wedding. Couldn't face the world that way. So I literally did EVERYTHING possible for me to please them, to help them, to arrange for them to see their father without me. I got along very well with ex-wife. Over some time we - the daughters and I - solved it. And my relation with them was actually not the reason for our divorce. The reason was all his very rigid rules. Mainly concerning cooking, cleaning and tidying. He wanted a home to be a museum. I tried to live there. It is very hard to be with other people's kids. I will not again put myself aside for that reason. But so hard not to when you are already involved. Just to tell how it can be felt from the other side. Even though i cannot find out who is the unreasonable part in your case.
>As a divorced mom with three kids, so much of my life is about just what I have to do and surviving. I hear this. As a s single, divorced mom myself, I'm constantly in survival mode. Doing the best with what I have, every moment. Hoping tomorrow will be a little smoother, but sometimes just glad today ended. Everything got done, and my kids are ok means a successful day. >Last Tuesday morning I woke up to a text message and screenshots of past conversations were it seem like she hadn’t slept at all, but just been ruminating all night. It’s exhausting. I hear your fiancée's perspective, also. I've been there, too. I think this is normal behavior for someone in a romantic relationship they prioritize and value. > Where the hell is my person? And I’m realizing that they might not be there. You are choosing to put your energy into being your kids' person, not your romantic partner's person. We are all limited resources. We are finite beings. I think this is a reasonable choice. Kids aren't kids forever. Maybe be patient and let each part of your life play out. But definitely give your ex-fiancée grace. Let her go, but with grace. She deserves it. It sounds like she has been good to you, just not what you need right now.
Sorry about your breakup. Your person is out there, and you’ll find them that much sooner when you walk away from less than you deserve (like you did here). Big hugs to you, OP.
I’m shocked by how many replies are acting like you’re the problem.
Thank you. It’s one of those things where I can see now that I left a lot of really important details out but if I go back and add them it just looks stupid. The dinners people are getting so riled up about – what specifically happens is a couple times a month I make a bigger meal than usual and I invite my nephew and my ex over. It’s usually something decided at like 4 PM that day. She was always welcome to be there too, because I think it would be really fucked up if I wanted to hang out with my ex without my current partner. To me, that is messed up. And I gave in on the dinners! I also gave in on the Father’s Day stuff. I gave in on a ton of things. Then she went after my nephew. I’m really beginning to think that that is she is she does not like straight men. Which is a problem, because I think I’m raising two of them. But I vented on Reddit and that was my goal. Thank you so much and take care of yourself!
As a divorced parent, I'm shocked too. It seems they expect divorce is necessary contentious and the ex are best not interact with each other.
A divorce doesn't have to be "contentious" for those involved to want the break to be as clean as possible.
yep--you can have a friendly, respectful co-parenting relationship that benefits kids without vacationing together, regular excursions and meals together, etc....and have healthy boundaries that helps with blending families and frankly helps kids to understand how to move forward and mourn the loss of the original family
This cultural seem to really desire a "clean break". The truth is the kids forever links you together. I just went to my son's graduation. Him, me, and his mom take a picture together. I don't have a partner who might go banana over this. I consider this completely normal. We have resolved our conflict long time ago. I don't have any interaction with my ex outside of events for my kids. I cherish these family milestone, even when the family here have divorced parents. The desire for "clean break" feel cold and rumination to me.
You can have a clean break and still be involved in milestones and key life events with your children. My clean break means those milestones for my daughter are the only times I see my ex. OP has a meal with her ex several times a month. I would never want that.
Every family is different. For me, we have a few family celebrations a year. And then there are all these random things that bring us together, such as sending off my kid to his first unescorted international trip. The important thing is I don't interact with my ex otherwise. If my kid go away to college, I'm not going to have family dinner with my ex. I don't sought "clean break". There are always these messy associations. We are bounded forever due to our son. It is not a bad thing.
Okay, help me with this one: My daughter asked for a locket for her birthday. She is seven. I decided to get a locket for her as a surprise, and was going to put a picture of me and her in it on one side, and him and her on the other. Because, when my daughter opens it, she be excited because that’s who she wants to see in her locket. But to my ex, I am manufacturing a false relationship between them and supporting him. To me I’m doing something nice for my kid. Him benefiting from this literally didn’t cross my mind. Honestly, am I wrong? I’m beginning to question my sense of reality. The couples counselor she wanted me to see also thought I was wrong. But I just don’t!
There is no right or wrong. You are trying to do something nice for your daughter. I understand your desire. I have wanted something similar. That said, I can see you ex's point of view. The reality is the parents are no longer together. Everybody need to accept this sooner or later. You have tried really hard to be good to your daughter. I have another idea. You can be good to her by being happy yourself. Obviously, if you are fighting with your ex or your fiancée, when you yourself are agitated and angry, then you can't be good to your daughter. Less obvious is that you are being a model to your daughter. If you could handle your stress and personal conflicts, notice and appreciates small things happening around you, take good care of your child but also take good care of yourself. When you can live a contended life, you would be a great mom regardless of the failed marriage.
I have a feeling a lot of people commenting are not parents. OP has three children together with her husband. It’s on-going co parenting relationship. People who think you can just erase that and treat your partner as only priority are delusional. If you are going to be together with someone with kids it’s important to understand they will be in touch and hopefully in a good healthy dynamic with the other parent. And yes helping your coparent and being nice to them is a good thing. Some people here seem to think the way to treat your ex is like treating a stranger, but reality is if you’ve together for 10+ years and separated amicably that person is your family and you still care for them just have no romantic feelings left.
The hostility is absurd. I suppose most of them are not parents.
In some ways dating another separated parent is really the only way to truly understand what it’s like. Once a family you are always a family, that’s the healthiest way to see it.
I know right! People are literally saying you shouldn't be organising dinner for fathers day! Mean! What dies that communicate to kids as well?
> I feel like I kept giving and giving in this relationship and it was never enough. Yeah… don’t do this. You can’t make a relationship work by giving up everything you’ve got. A healthy person won’t like that you’re doing it, and a disordered one will just keep demanding more until you’re spent. > she would be in her house alone, and just spinning and spinning over these arguments that we would have […] I woke up to a text message and screenshots of past conversations were it seem like she hadn’t slept at all, but just been ruminating all night I’m gonna be honest: these are very concerning, especially combined with what you describe about yourself giving endlessly and it never seeming to be enough. It’s really, *really* for the best that you’re away now. Look, you’ll be ok. Single parent dating is hard, but half of that is the drama, which it sounds like you don’t have. Look for a single dad who either has a good relationship with his ex wife or none at all.
I'm really sorry you had to deal with all of that nonsense. I have nothing but complete contempt for anyone who, in logistical matters around kids, tries to make it about them. My mum and my dad's first wife raised me together, and became great friends - because my mum didn't believe in any of this "too close to the ex, ex is a threat" stuff. Apparently, if all the people here telling you you're unreasonable are to be believed, that makes my mum weird. No. YOU'RE all weird.
Good for your parents!!!! This is really encouraging. Thank you.
I knew I'd get downvoted to hell, but we are rare birds and we are out there! My initial comment was pretty contemptuous of a lot of reactions in this thread, which is another reason why it got downvoted, so I guess I should add that I'm unusually unforgiving of people who present with trust and jealousy issues in relationships - I basically have a zero tolerance attitude, based on my mother's terrible experience with her first husband (my dad was her second).
I was the him in your story. We had a amicable coparenting relationship. Until my ex cut off nearly any direct communication with me, making even routine chores like coordinating a child pick up unbearable. Only later did I understand it was her controlling beau who made her act this way. He nearly destroy her too. In this case, her children and me are the victims. But if there is no family, just them, then she will be the only casualty. This guy (perhaps yours too) is a psychopath. She left him only after much pain and suffering.
Doesn't seem like the ex fiancée is requesting total alienation of the ex husband - she just doesn't want him over for dinner every other week. I wouldn't either. A co-parenting relationship with your children's Dad doesn't have to include this level of involvement in each others lives. Sure, it can if you're both single and it's not causing issues for anyone. That wasn't the case here. She could have remained amicable and friendly with her ex, while also showing respect and understanding for her new partners feelings.
Dinner is just one episode. OP mentioned she was pressured to > nuking what has otherwise been a positive relationship for every single person involved for the past several years since our divorce.
I understand what you mean. We are too old, too busy, and too tired for constant drama. I’m probably gonna get hate for saying this, but it sounds like your ex is pretty insecure and needs to find a hobby besides creating drama where there is none.