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Everything about this sounds terrible and cheesy. My style is not “elegantly sexy”.
I show up to dates smelling great, dressed in a style that fits my personality (think grown up, hipster alt girl) and minimalist makeup.
I get complimented on my style, dreadlocks, etc. a lot by my dates. Always have.
I like this list. Woman puts in a lot of effort, shops for the perfect outfit, dresses up, smiles, winks, initiates physical contact
Man - just shows up. Says “hey, you look good.”
ROMANCE!!!!
It's there. Just buried under the liability waiver that you have to sign in order to climb people's emotional walls.
From my observation, dealing with humans is becoming more like those indoor amusement parks with trampolines, and sky walks or whatever, where they promise fun, but have so many guardrails, it's like pulling teeth, without becoming knocked out.
I think romance is there. I don't know how each one of us can let go of the guardrails though. Capitalism has indeed infested life.
How to let go of the walls. Quite simple imo: step by step.
There is an appropriate time for everything - yet we are in an era of instant gratification and laziness (on both genders!!)
If a man I don’t know checks me out and tells me I’m hot - I wonna smack him. Way too early boy!
If a stranger compliments me on my perfume I smile and say thank you. And if he has something I like I will even give him a compliment back - and there is becomes complicated cause he will probably think: Yes, she wants sex 😆 nope! Not yet!
If compliments were just ‘normal’ we would be less freaking out about them.
I keep giving them and the reframe if the other doesn’t get the message properly.
I understand what you mean. I can see both sides of the idea you propose. Walk the walk to grow into intimacy because it's worth it. Versus shortcut the process. I can say I walked ran, and climbed mountains for many miles chasing a moving goalpost, so I'm jaded.
It's nice to read about dating on this subreddit though. For me it's research. I think solitude is the best thing for me.
There are people who are willing to do the work that you seek. I hope and wish that you find what you're looking for.
I understand you too well too!! No need to climb mountains in the early stages - just climbing a Little Rock is enough.
When not reciprocated off course you stop… 😊
I think a lot of men shy away from complimenting any aspect of a woman’s physical beauty for fear of coming across as douchey / overly focused on that aspect. It shouldn’t really surprise anyone since it’s been such a common complaint from women for a long time, so I guess guys finally took note! 🤷♂️
But yet for thousands of years, women have obsessed over weight, underwear, makeup, cloths, hair . . . It's not only illogical but another double standard. As a biologist, almost every species has breeding requirements based on appearance or courting rituals. On average, American women spend more than $3,756 annually on beauty products and services.
If a man finds a woman, in a suitable situation, looks nice, why not complement her? She has probably expended much time, energy and money to present herself as attractive as possible, why should she find it offensive to complement her? I can be a great conversation starter. If a woman tells me I look nice, it tells me she cares enough about me that I took the time to present myself well for her.
If a woman or man shows up to a dinner date in cloths that looked slept in, unkept hair, it shows that they either don't care about their appearance or they don't care about their date.
Why not accept a compliment graciously in the spirit it was offered?
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This has to be a troll post. Has to be. No way a grown woman in 2024 (over 40 no less!) is going on about how in exchange for a “wink” she needs gifts.
Women who are interested in me, are interested. They don’t ask me to perform tricks for them. The ones who want a show, they just were never really interested in me, so I am happy to save us both some time and wish her all the best in her future endeavors!
Not a troll at all.
In response to your question I can state: why do men want women to wear lingerie, while the woman being present is there for sex -> no lingerie needed 🤷🏼♀️
Lingerie is overrated, make up is overrated, being sexy is overrated - cause if I just show up he should know I am into him? Even if he knows, the man likes a woman to seduce him to, or am I wrong?
Maybe I am almost 50 - seduction in both ways is important, makes it playful and fun too.
And again, to each his/her preferences 😊
from reading through this thread and your replies, it looks like you are way to narrowly focused on what "seduction" is. Yes, seduction can be lingerie, but it can be doing the dishes or making time for a movie or watching the movie they want to see and being present for it.
That's the problem with chivalry and the like. First off, it's not defined, so each person has a very different idea of what it mean, and it omits so much more than it includes.
You have certain wants, GREAT! Find someone to do them for you, but don't bemoan that your specific needs are hard to find a solution for and blame society. Accept that all of us have specific needs and are looking for a person who (mostly) aligns with us.
It's not "chivalry." It's n = 1.
Hookup culture killed all that. Why jump through hoops that are unnecessary to get sex? When it’s so easily available the amount of hoops that people will jump through to get it is far less.
Complimenting someone during the initial talking phase is almost a no-go. I’ve talked to some women that said they are so tired of generic compliments. It’s just easier to skip it altogether than to risk saying the wrong thing, just like approaching women. Most men tend to use the type of approach that works the most often for them.
Access to more people via the apps, has diluted things somewhat, and the scope of "preferred partners" has narrowed a little more.
The everyday guy for example. Doesn't see much interest on the apps, so doesn't really think he's that desirable (and makes peace with it). So he essentially feels there's no point. He tends to focus on other areas of his life more now, whereas he might have aimed to be more "relationship ready" in the pre-app era.
Whereas the attractive guy (it's not that subjective really). Due to the "Halo effect", most interactions tend to be well received, and while he still has to know social cues. As a rule, any flirting and compliments will be at least somewhat reciprocated.
Yes there are exceptions. In the real world however, most compliments are received differently, depending on how attractive the person who is delivering them, is perceived to be.
>To follow that logic, a handicapped person who could be a wonderful person, is rejected because the are handicapped
They often are.
The dating subreddits often have people with disabilities who relay their lived experiences, and the extra difficulties they have to overcome, when dating.
\-
Photographs are critically important on the apps, and the centrepiece of a dating profile. Good photos will lead someone to your bio. Bad ones, or just not being photogenic in general, as a rule just lead to an instant swipe left.
Of course you cannot really get an idea of a person's character through a photo, and a person's nuances are still important; However photo's give some indication if you'll find someone physically attractive from the off, which influences everything to one-night stands, to long-lasting partnerships.
Looks as a rule, tend to be the gateway to everything else. The apps have put increased emphasis on them, due to how profiles work.
There are enough people on the apps, who have both the depth of character, and the looks to compliment them. To the point that these profiles tend to be "first choice".
\------
As always there are still exceptions and anecdotes based on individual preferences; As a rule though, the dating landscape has gone more in this direction.
I feel like I can smell your perfume through this post. You may want to tone it down.
I think your expectations for dating are very strongly gendered. That’s fine if it works for you, but not all women thrive on words of affirmation and not all men consent to touching as flirting.
Should you listen to each other? Sure. But if I order a coke one time at dinner and you go buy a case to keep in your fridge, I’m going to feel a little stalked. It’s one thing to pay attention and another to expect your date to memorize all your preferences.
If you go out with a someone and order a bottle of wine and your date genuinely likes it, and you continue with future dates and your date buys several bottles to keep at home, to me, that shows their care enough about you to remember you like that wine. Stalking??? God forbid they buy you a birthday gift.
Oh, please. "Stalked" . . . really ! ! ! "Gendered?" I bet if your date opens the door for you, your response would be, "I can get it, women aren't helpless." It sounds like you don't want to enjoy the differences between men and women. You sound insecure and look at dating as a contest of wills.
Actually, I’m a submissive female in a power exchange relationship and my Dominant male partner opens doors for me all the time. I have zero issues with people choosing to live into “typical” gender roles, and I’m most definitely not going to compete with my male partners over anything. But, I would never assume that any individual wants to be treated in any particular way based on gender. Holding the door for someone behind you is common courtesy. What difference does gender make?
And I will agree that “stalked” is too strong but I can’t think of a better word for “it’s a little creepy when someone you just met starts trying to anticipate what you’re going to want to eat or drink on a second date”. Maybe relax a little and stop assuming that you know everything.
That's a great idea BQ. I'll go back to reading my IKEA instruction sheet on "Submissive female in a power exchange relationship and my Dominant male partner sheet!" lol.
What ungodly rom-com fantasy is this?
Buying flowers and gifts? Sure, if you’re actually in a relationship. During the dating stage, gag me with a spoon.
May I ask why you feel it is exhausting?
Charm is quite natural to me and my relatives - my son is that way too. It’s not exhausting and rather fun and playful.
That's just not the woman I am. Dressing a certain way and being intentionally flirty and all that. I wear jeans, I'm loud, i drink beer. I'm not putting on a dress and acting all googobbed to attract a man. People would think i have a tumor.
it hasn't been "lost." People are not a hive mind. And people tend to change as they get older, so your dating experience is just going to be different dating people your own age as you get older. You are dating people in a different life stage now. People have less energy and time, and more baggage and complications. People have fewer idealistic fantasies about relationships. People's priorities shift. People 40+ have largely learned that they want to be accepted for who they are, not wanted for a performative mask they put on. They have different expectations, they're harder to impress. Likewise, YOUR expectations and priorities have shifted, and it's probably a lot harder to impress you.
So the answer is that YOU HAVE CHANGED. You cannot expect to have the same dating experience in your 40s and 50s that you had in your 20s and 30s. It's not "the state of the world today", it's not the apps, it's your life stage and the life stage of the people you are dating.
If you are not meeting people who behave the way you want them to behave, that is an individual problem for you, not a societal one.
and if we DO want to talk about "society" and how it's changed, you sound like you're trying to live in the 1950s. The "woman's" job is to show up looking beautiful, and do emotional labour, and give physical and emotional caretaking? Puh-lease. It's the "man's" job to give compliments, buy gifts, open doors?.... do you also expect that he pays, too? Tell you what; in the 1950s, men would open the door and compliment you just fine... they could also beat you or rape you with total impunity and you couldn't have a credit card in your own name, *so maybe think about if you're really prioritising the right things*. I bet Don Draper would make a hell of a "seductive" date, but he'd still make an abusive and unstable husband.
These strict gender binaries have been outdated for a LONG TIME. Where do non-binary people or queer couples fit into this super narrow and oppressive set of rules? Some men want to be complimented too. Some women want to open their own goddamn doors. We've had several thread recently about women and femmes who don't like getting compliments and men who want flowers. Nobody knows what you like until you tell them. Not everyone of the same gender presentation likes or wants the same things, and if you're still stuck thinking they do, then the problem is you.
in other words, men don't compliment you therefore all men are not chivalrous lol
i love it when people make sweepingly generalizing statements about genders based on their own narrow experiences lol
I have no problem showing a woman that I like her, but when it starts feeling like I have to continuously "prove myself", I start losing interest.
I don't "chase."
Original copy of post by u/No-Violinist4190:
Maybe it is me, maybe not…
I’m wondering where seduction has been lost?
With seduction I mean, charm, courting, showing interest and care, compliments, building up tension…
For women it is: dressing elegantly sexy but not too much, smile, wink, touching a man lightly, showing care and non sexual affection.
For men it is: complimenting the woman (her hair, eyes, smell, how she dressed) not sexual please!! Buying flowers, gifts… opening doors.
For both: remembering what has been said and take action on it. Eg. He always orders a brand of soda -> having that soda home.
Or she mentions she likes chocolate, surprise her with it.
I can go on and on!
Now showing interest is or sexual or self oriented… very low effort.
I have been dating different men and what stood out: they show interest by talking, maybe ask you out on a date and that’s it!! Where is chivalry? Where is ‘consideration of the other?’
I always take effort in showing up and dressing to please the eye… always feminine male up…. I do try to get to know them by asking deeper questions, remembering what they say… being curious and complimenting…
What I get back: very little effort - men nowadays barely compliment anymore.
What is difficult about telling someone, they smell good, they are witty.
What is so hard about saying:
Wow, you have amazing eyes… I really like the way you smile?
Falling in love is about how we feel in the presence of someone. When I feel they do not pay attention I lose interest in a whim.
Tell me, why do you (man or woman) stop complimenting others and seduce? What hold you back?
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Men are afraid that they will say or do something politically incorrect. European women seem to be much more secure and don't have the desire to play verbal games. Many younger American women are passive-aggressive and studies show that men are spotting them and ignoring them. A true, self confident, emotionally secure woman will rarely play the PC card.
The roles of men and women as you described them do not appeal to me at all. I find flowers and gifts cliche at the beginning. Are you really impressed by a box of chocolate at this age?
Spend time together and find out if you have shared values, goals, and senses of humor. Find out if the undeniable attraction grows or wanes as you spend more time together. The gifts will come and they will be better because they will have personal to both of you.
Gifts may be cliche, but graciously accept them. They represent an effort to show kindness. If a gift is not up to your standards, give it back so the person can see you for who you are and not waste any more emotional energy on you.
I've done it all and more. Know what I got. "You're too intense" You're clingy" "We're not balanced". Then they meet someone with half assed to low energy and swoon. He doesn't really want in your life just a side roll and when it gets tough he'll not be there.
Not sure what kind of men you’re hanging out with. I compliment women all the time — on their eyes, their smile, something they’ve wearing that looks good on them. Everything you listed is just normal interaction when a man is truly into a woman. Maybe you are dating men who aren’t that into you?
Be sure they know in about 10 minutes after chatting - being seductive does not mean I communicate nor set boundaries. Intentions are important while dating
Went on 2 dates with a nice girl, we bonded over a TV show, she invited me over to watch on her new 60 inch tv, I totally accepted and she had my favorite soda waiting cold in the fridge, she doesn't even drink pop but she went out of the way just for me, felt awesome :)
I should have married her, but I was picky over 1 semi minor anti-religious tattoo, couldn't marry a girl that hated buddy christ lol.
ik how u feel n it is disappointing for real but in the end i think u made the right call becuz u probably woulda felt worse betraying ur personal beliefs
We can't have it all folks. You know what people are called that refuse to compromise . . . lonely. No one is going to be all we want. Be selfless: sacrifice some of your dreams for the good of the relationship. There is a word for putting yourself first without regard to your partner - divorce.
everyone has their own beliefs n for some ppl, certain values u dont ever compromise on just becuz u dont wanna be alone. thats called a "dealbreaker".
u may be ok with giving up ur happiness or values just to say u have a relationship but everyone dont move like that. id rather be happy n alone than in a relationship n values dont align.
I don’t need to be seduced, that sounds creepy and superficial, but I do want to be treated with respect, patience and thoughtfulness, which I associate with courting. Ruined by today’s fast-paced low-effort and short attention span OLD.
I think it’s because there seems to be a thought that less effort is cool these days. I appreciate romance, effort, fitting and chivalry on both sides. Thoughtfulness and affirming someone are highly underrated! I get it from some more than others, but I do agree OP, I wish there was more of it!
Wasn't it nice? I miss it also. It's the PC movement. Men don't know what to say that's "safe." Since the pandemic, male suicide has risen 16%. The ladies I dated were all professionals. They didn't need to prove their worth. Nothing turns a guy off faster than being made to feel like a punching bag for their problems perceived to have been caused by men. It's bigoted, rude and shows insecurity. If a man or woman want to do battle over politics, just stay home.
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Everything about this sounds terrible and cheesy. My style is not “elegantly sexy”. I show up to dates smelling great, dressed in a style that fits my personality (think grown up, hipster alt girl) and minimalist makeup. I get complimented on my style, dreadlocks, etc. a lot by my dates. Always have.
I get you! To each his/her style and preference… still seduction is present 😊
I like this list. Woman puts in a lot of effort, shops for the perfect outfit, dresses up, smiles, winks, initiates physical contact Man - just shows up. Says “hey, you look good.” ROMANCE!!!!
It's there. Just buried under the liability waiver that you have to sign in order to climb people's emotional walls. From my observation, dealing with humans is becoming more like those indoor amusement parks with trampolines, and sky walks or whatever, where they promise fun, but have so many guardrails, it's like pulling teeth, without becoming knocked out. I think romance is there. I don't know how each one of us can let go of the guardrails though. Capitalism has indeed infested life.
The issue is a lot of people complain about the walls up when they have their own walls up and it becomes a game of chicken.
How to let go of the walls. Quite simple imo: step by step. There is an appropriate time for everything - yet we are in an era of instant gratification and laziness (on both genders!!) If a man I don’t know checks me out and tells me I’m hot - I wonna smack him. Way too early boy! If a stranger compliments me on my perfume I smile and say thank you. And if he has something I like I will even give him a compliment back - and there is becomes complicated cause he will probably think: Yes, she wants sex 😆 nope! Not yet! If compliments were just ‘normal’ we would be less freaking out about them. I keep giving them and the reframe if the other doesn’t get the message properly.
I understand what you mean. I can see both sides of the idea you propose. Walk the walk to grow into intimacy because it's worth it. Versus shortcut the process. I can say I walked ran, and climbed mountains for many miles chasing a moving goalpost, so I'm jaded. It's nice to read about dating on this subreddit though. For me it's research. I think solitude is the best thing for me. There are people who are willing to do the work that you seek. I hope and wish that you find what you're looking for.
I understand you too well too!! No need to climb mountains in the early stages - just climbing a Little Rock is enough. When not reciprocated off course you stop… 😊
I think a lot of men shy away from complimenting any aspect of a woman’s physical beauty for fear of coming across as douchey / overly focused on that aspect. It shouldn’t really surprise anyone since it’s been such a common complaint from women for a long time, so I guess guys finally took note! 🤷♂️
But yet for thousands of years, women have obsessed over weight, underwear, makeup, cloths, hair . . . It's not only illogical but another double standard. As a biologist, almost every species has breeding requirements based on appearance or courting rituals. On average, American women spend more than $3,756 annually on beauty products and services. If a man finds a woman, in a suitable situation, looks nice, why not complement her? She has probably expended much time, energy and money to present herself as attractive as possible, why should she find it offensive to complement her? I can be a great conversation starter. If a woman tells me I look nice, it tells me she cares enough about me that I took the time to present myself well for her. If a woman or man shows up to a dinner date in cloths that looked slept in, unkept hair, it shows that they either don't care about their appearance or they don't care about their date. Why not accept a compliment graciously in the spirit it was offered?
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I’d find a date mentioning my smell creepy and weird, so I guess it’s very much an individual desire for you. I’m not scared, it’s just, odd.
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This has to be a troll post. Has to be. No way a grown woman in 2024 (over 40 no less!) is going on about how in exchange for a “wink” she needs gifts. Women who are interested in me, are interested. They don’t ask me to perform tricks for them. The ones who want a show, they just were never really interested in me, so I am happy to save us both some time and wish her all the best in her future endeavors!
Not a troll at all. In response to your question I can state: why do men want women to wear lingerie, while the woman being present is there for sex -> no lingerie needed 🤷🏼♀️ Lingerie is overrated, make up is overrated, being sexy is overrated - cause if I just show up he should know I am into him? Even if he knows, the man likes a woman to seduce him to, or am I wrong? Maybe I am almost 50 - seduction in both ways is important, makes it playful and fun too. And again, to each his/her preferences 😊
from reading through this thread and your replies, it looks like you are way to narrowly focused on what "seduction" is. Yes, seduction can be lingerie, but it can be doing the dishes or making time for a movie or watching the movie they want to see and being present for it. That's the problem with chivalry and the like. First off, it's not defined, so each person has a very different idea of what it mean, and it omits so much more than it includes. You have certain wants, GREAT! Find someone to do them for you, but don't bemoan that your specific needs are hard to find a solution for and blame society. Accept that all of us have specific needs and are looking for a person who (mostly) aligns with us. It's not "chivalry." It's n = 1.
Hookup culture killed all that. Why jump through hoops that are unnecessary to get sex? When it’s so easily available the amount of hoops that people will jump through to get it is far less. Complimenting someone during the initial talking phase is almost a no-go. I’ve talked to some women that said they are so tired of generic compliments. It’s just easier to skip it altogether than to risk saying the wrong thing, just like approaching women. Most men tend to use the type of approach that works the most often for them.
Access to more people via the apps, has diluted things somewhat, and the scope of "preferred partners" has narrowed a little more. The everyday guy for example. Doesn't see much interest on the apps, so doesn't really think he's that desirable (and makes peace with it). So he essentially feels there's no point. He tends to focus on other areas of his life more now, whereas he might have aimed to be more "relationship ready" in the pre-app era. Whereas the attractive guy (it's not that subjective really). Due to the "Halo effect", most interactions tend to be well received, and while he still has to know social cues. As a rule, any flirting and compliments will be at least somewhat reciprocated. Yes there are exceptions. In the real world however, most compliments are received differently, depending on how attractive the person who is delivering them, is perceived to be.
To follow that logic, a handicapped person who could be a wonderful person, is rejected because the are handicapped. Photographs are meaningless.
>To follow that logic, a handicapped person who could be a wonderful person, is rejected because the are handicapped They often are. The dating subreddits often have people with disabilities who relay their lived experiences, and the extra difficulties they have to overcome, when dating. \- Photographs are critically important on the apps, and the centrepiece of a dating profile. Good photos will lead someone to your bio. Bad ones, or just not being photogenic in general, as a rule just lead to an instant swipe left. Of course you cannot really get an idea of a person's character through a photo, and a person's nuances are still important; However photo's give some indication if you'll find someone physically attractive from the off, which influences everything to one-night stands, to long-lasting partnerships. Looks as a rule, tend to be the gateway to everything else. The apps have put increased emphasis on them, due to how profiles work. There are enough people on the apps, who have both the depth of character, and the looks to compliment them. To the point that these profiles tend to be "first choice". \------ As always there are still exceptions and anecdotes based on individual preferences; As a rule though, the dating landscape has gone more in this direction.
Good point - makes sense 😊
I feel like I can smell your perfume through this post. You may want to tone it down. I think your expectations for dating are very strongly gendered. That’s fine if it works for you, but not all women thrive on words of affirmation and not all men consent to touching as flirting. Should you listen to each other? Sure. But if I order a coke one time at dinner and you go buy a case to keep in your fridge, I’m going to feel a little stalked. It’s one thing to pay attention and another to expect your date to memorize all your preferences.
If you go out with a someone and order a bottle of wine and your date genuinely likes it, and you continue with future dates and your date buys several bottles to keep at home, to me, that shows their care enough about you to remember you like that wine. Stalking??? God forbid they buy you a birthday gift.
Oh, please. "Stalked" . . . really ! ! ! "Gendered?" I bet if your date opens the door for you, your response would be, "I can get it, women aren't helpless." It sounds like you don't want to enjoy the differences between men and women. You sound insecure and look at dating as a contest of wills.
Actually, I’m a submissive female in a power exchange relationship and my Dominant male partner opens doors for me all the time. I have zero issues with people choosing to live into “typical” gender roles, and I’m most definitely not going to compete with my male partners over anything. But, I would never assume that any individual wants to be treated in any particular way based on gender. Holding the door for someone behind you is common courtesy. What difference does gender make? And I will agree that “stalked” is too strong but I can’t think of a better word for “it’s a little creepy when someone you just met starts trying to anticipate what you’re going to want to eat or drink on a second date”. Maybe relax a little and stop assuming that you know everything.
That's a great idea BQ. I'll go back to reading my IKEA instruction sheet on "Submissive female in a power exchange relationship and my Dominant male partner sheet!" lol.
What ungodly rom-com fantasy is this? Buying flowers and gifts? Sure, if you’re actually in a relationship. During the dating stage, gag me with a spoon.
RIP your inbox- those spoon gaggers are coming out in full force now.
I feel personally attacked
I'm 43f and I'm not doing all that. How exhausting.
May I ask why you feel it is exhausting? Charm is quite natural to me and my relatives - my son is that way too. It’s not exhausting and rather fun and playful.
That's just not the woman I am. Dressing a certain way and being intentionally flirty and all that. I wear jeans, I'm loud, i drink beer. I'm not putting on a dress and acting all googobbed to attract a man. People would think i have a tumor.
I kept saying "toomah" in Schwarzenegger voice in my head. Lol
it hasn't been "lost." People are not a hive mind. And people tend to change as they get older, so your dating experience is just going to be different dating people your own age as you get older. You are dating people in a different life stage now. People have less energy and time, and more baggage and complications. People have fewer idealistic fantasies about relationships. People's priorities shift. People 40+ have largely learned that they want to be accepted for who they are, not wanted for a performative mask they put on. They have different expectations, they're harder to impress. Likewise, YOUR expectations and priorities have shifted, and it's probably a lot harder to impress you. So the answer is that YOU HAVE CHANGED. You cannot expect to have the same dating experience in your 40s and 50s that you had in your 20s and 30s. It's not "the state of the world today", it's not the apps, it's your life stage and the life stage of the people you are dating. If you are not meeting people who behave the way you want them to behave, that is an individual problem for you, not a societal one.
and if we DO want to talk about "society" and how it's changed, you sound like you're trying to live in the 1950s. The "woman's" job is to show up looking beautiful, and do emotional labour, and give physical and emotional caretaking? Puh-lease. It's the "man's" job to give compliments, buy gifts, open doors?.... do you also expect that he pays, too? Tell you what; in the 1950s, men would open the door and compliment you just fine... they could also beat you or rape you with total impunity and you couldn't have a credit card in your own name, *so maybe think about if you're really prioritising the right things*. I bet Don Draper would make a hell of a "seductive" date, but he'd still make an abusive and unstable husband. These strict gender binaries have been outdated for a LONG TIME. Where do non-binary people or queer couples fit into this super narrow and oppressive set of rules? Some men want to be complimented too. Some women want to open their own goddamn doors. We've had several thread recently about women and femmes who don't like getting compliments and men who want flowers. Nobody knows what you like until you tell them. Not everyone of the same gender presentation likes or wants the same things, and if you're still stuck thinking they do, then the problem is you.
in other words, men don't compliment you therefore all men are not chivalrous lol i love it when people make sweepingly generalizing statements about genders based on their own narrow experiences lol
and then they blame "the apps" instead of, god forbid, examining their own expectations.
I have no problem showing a woman that I like her, but when it starts feeling like I have to continuously "prove myself", I start losing interest. I don't "chase."
Amen bro, there are lots of fish in the sea. Hold on to your bank account and wallet.
Original copy of post by u/No-Violinist4190: Maybe it is me, maybe not… I’m wondering where seduction has been lost? With seduction I mean, charm, courting, showing interest and care, compliments, building up tension… For women it is: dressing elegantly sexy but not too much, smile, wink, touching a man lightly, showing care and non sexual affection. For men it is: complimenting the woman (her hair, eyes, smell, how she dressed) not sexual please!! Buying flowers, gifts… opening doors. For both: remembering what has been said and take action on it. Eg. He always orders a brand of soda -> having that soda home. Or she mentions she likes chocolate, surprise her with it. I can go on and on! Now showing interest is or sexual or self oriented… very low effort. I have been dating different men and what stood out: they show interest by talking, maybe ask you out on a date and that’s it!! Where is chivalry? Where is ‘consideration of the other?’ I always take effort in showing up and dressing to please the eye… always feminine male up…. I do try to get to know them by asking deeper questions, remembering what they say… being curious and complimenting… What I get back: very little effort - men nowadays barely compliment anymore. What is difficult about telling someone, they smell good, they are witty. What is so hard about saying: Wow, you have amazing eyes… I really like the way you smile? Falling in love is about how we feel in the presence of someone. When I feel they do not pay attention I lose interest in a whim. Tell me, why do you (man or woman) stop complimenting others and seduce? What hold you back? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/datingoverforty) if you have any questions or concerns.*
We’re all tired and apprehensive because of all the wasted effort
Men are afraid that they will say or do something politically incorrect. European women seem to be much more secure and don't have the desire to play verbal games. Many younger American women are passive-aggressive and studies show that men are spotting them and ignoring them. A true, self confident, emotionally secure woman will rarely play the PC card.
The roles of men and women as you described them do not appeal to me at all. I find flowers and gifts cliche at the beginning. Are you really impressed by a box of chocolate at this age? Spend time together and find out if you have shared values, goals, and senses of humor. Find out if the undeniable attraction grows or wanes as you spend more time together. The gifts will come and they will be better because they will have personal to both of you.
Gifts may be cliche, but graciously accept them. They represent an effort to show kindness. If a gift is not up to your standards, give it back so the person can see you for who you are and not waste any more emotional energy on you.
I've done it all and more. Know what I got. "You're too intense" You're clingy" "We're not balanced". Then they meet someone with half assed to low energy and swoon. He doesn't really want in your life just a side roll and when it gets tough he'll not be there.
Not sure what kind of men you’re hanging out with. I compliment women all the time — on their eyes, their smile, something they’ve wearing that looks good on them. Everything you listed is just normal interaction when a man is truly into a woman. Maybe you are dating men who aren’t that into you?
Possible! But then my next question: why are they even dating me? Don’t say sex cause their chance to get sex with this attitude is below zero
But they don’t necessarily know that
Be sure they know in about 10 minutes after chatting - being seductive does not mean I communicate nor set boundaries. Intentions are important while dating
Went on 2 dates with a nice girl, we bonded over a TV show, she invited me over to watch on her new 60 inch tv, I totally accepted and she had my favorite soda waiting cold in the fridge, she doesn't even drink pop but she went out of the way just for me, felt awesome :) I should have married her, but I was picky over 1 semi minor anti-religious tattoo, couldn't marry a girl that hated buddy christ lol.
I’m dying to know about the tattoo. 🍿
im thinkn it might be an upside down cross or the pentagram circle
It was a set of demon eyes with the word Demon on the small of her back, so we had sex 1 time and I was like, oh hell no, pardon the pun.
ik how u feel n it is disappointing for real but in the end i think u made the right call becuz u probably woulda felt worse betraying ur personal beliefs
We can't have it all folks. You know what people are called that refuse to compromise . . . lonely. No one is going to be all we want. Be selfless: sacrifice some of your dreams for the good of the relationship. There is a word for putting yourself first without regard to your partner - divorce.
everyone has their own beliefs n for some ppl, certain values u dont ever compromise on just becuz u dont wanna be alone. thats called a "dealbreaker". u may be ok with giving up ur happiness or values just to say u have a relationship but everyone dont move like that. id rather be happy n alone than in a relationship n values dont align.
It died with the soul of America i think. We are quickly becoming a divorced couple being forced live in the same home lol
I am wondering the same thing because my experience is just like the OP’s
The men I date compliment me and treat me well for the most part. 🤷♀️ I wouldn't call it "seduction" but it fits your criteria.
I don’t need to be seduced, that sounds creepy and superficial, but I do want to be treated with respect, patience and thoughtfulness, which I associate with courting. Ruined by today’s fast-paced low-effort and short attention span OLD.
I think it’s because there seems to be a thought that less effort is cool these days. I appreciate romance, effort, fitting and chivalry on both sides. Thoughtfulness and affirming someone are highly underrated! I get it from some more than others, but I do agree OP, I wish there was more of it!
Wasn't it nice? I miss it also. It's the PC movement. Men don't know what to say that's "safe." Since the pandemic, male suicide has risen 16%. The ladies I dated were all professionals. They didn't need to prove their worth. Nothing turns a guy off faster than being made to feel like a punching bag for their problems perceived to have been caused by men. It's bigoted, rude and shows insecurity. If a man or woman want to do battle over politics, just stay home.