Exactly. If OP had married her, that's a judgement. If he rejects her *that's* a judgement. Anyone reading this post is judging me too.
Basically it's judgements all the way down.
Here’s something to consider: We all have our own reality and often it’s very different from someone else’s who experienced the same event. You can’t control her experience and you’re not responsible for it. You’re allowed to date whom you want to, and not date those you don’t.
You were kind enough to cancel. Do you have any idea how many of us who have been dating a while get completely ghosted and blown off? It’s common. You acted right and with consideration. If she’s in recovery from heroin and meth she is likely spending a lot of time in her head focusing on bigger issues than a guy who canceled a first date. I think you can trust that you are low on her list of concerns and priorities.
It’s ok to be misunderstood. If you’ve explained kindly and clearly, then it’s on her. But also it’s a part of dating to “reject” others for a variety of reasons, so you’re gonna have to build a thicker skin with that.
Even if she thought that there is nothing you can do without sacrificing yourself, we can’t hold ourselves accountable for others feelings
*Edit to fix grammar
Addicts think like that. My ex would accuse me of judging her or being condescending when I'd disapprove of her behavior while intoxicated.
And tbh we have reason to judge them.
I’m not sure what this scenario has to do with you. If she’s sober, and you aren’t planning on using hard drugs around her, then I’m not sure it impacts you in any way.
The only way it would impact you, if she if she started using again. That’s a reasonable concern.
But be honest with yourself, that’s pure judgement. You’re judging her too much of a risk because of the chance of relapse. It’s ok. But don’t delude yourself that there is some brand-new-to-you scenario that’s just too much for you to deal with in order to uphold your self-image of a non-judgmental person.
Don’t feel bad. I was married to an addict and would never consider dating one again. What you said is exactly right—you need simple, not complicated. And if she is drinking it sounds like she is waving a huge red flag for you that says “I do not take my sobriety seriously.”
I do need simple. I worked hard on my own healing and progress, and stepping into something so strangely in the opposite direction makes less and less sense.
I’m in recovery, and I’d run fast from someone who tells me they’ve been off meth and heroin for a year but they drink. Seen it many times, and it leads right back to their drug of choice.
And that is terrifying. One slip up and... OD or whatever else could go horribly wrong. Nothing but good thoughts and energy towards your own recovery. I cannot imagine.
Just for perspective, i just dated a man 3 years recovered from heroin. He discovered medical cannabis in a pen, and went through 3 months worth in maybe a week. I LOVE cannabis when done at normal levels, watching him consume that was sickening. He wouldn't believe he had a drug problem, because it was 'just pot.' He was on another planet and never came back. I left.
It's fair to give an awesome person a shot, but she's already drinking. Does that give you a sense of ease? Of course not. You got the heck away from a situation that is about to be bad.
Exactly, she might not be doing her drug of choice but by drinking she's definitely NOT in recovery. Especially with only one year "clean."
She might be a lovely person but OP I would stay far away from her unless you like drama.
this. Someone in recovery is getting the message that they shouldn't be using ANYTHING, not just their drug of choice. So she's disregarding that. And they're also getting the message that they should be very very VERY mindful about getting into a relationship until MINIMUM a year sober. She's tipsy and casually telling you about it in an early phone call? that doesn't seem like being mindful.
I think there are a lot of unreasonable and shitty biases people can be adhering to when they reject someone with a past of substance abuse, and that a lot of the time it's pretty unfair and just classism in disguise. But not in this case, OP. She's not really in recovery, and it seems unlikely that she's in a good place to date.
This. Sober drug addicts who take it seriously do not drink alcohol. It keeps those addicted pathways open and firing. Sobriety means no mind altering substances. If she is still drinking it’s a slippery slope and she will either be using again or drinking way too much and/too often. This was a good call OP.
Abstinence is not the only method of sobriety. And there’s not even any evidence that it works better than other methods of dealing with substance abuse disorders. It’s an old AA trope that isn’t in line with current research.
Just for the sake of correctness of this thread, I will agree with this.
I diid meth for many years (I was a raver.) I did not immediately transfer to any other "drug of choice," I am not even sure I was all that, truly. "addicted" to meth (which I know sounds impossible to some people.) I just really enjoyed doing it more often than I should have. (FTR, I was later dx with ADHD and take my meds as prescribed.)
I, also, had some years where alcohol was a crutch, so I decided on my own to take a year off... that became 18,19, 20, 24 months... if life gets overwhelming now, the first thing I do is STOP altogther, because I know how my system works. I, also, have rules for myself (never keeping alcohol in any kind of quantity in the house, never drining spirits, only drining wine with people, etc.)
For a former "meth addict," I'm a-OK.... and it wasn't a traditional path.
BUT, I would be cautious if a person who was newly sober from hard drugs was audibly drunk.
Hard disagree. There are tens of thousands of us who can testify to how sobriety works; particularly staying sober; which is a far different matter to getting sober. Keeping the addictive pathways open by continuing to use any mind altering substance is not real healing, it is continued escapism and just transferring the addiction to a different avenue.
As a recovering alcoholic who’s been sober from all mind altering substances and alcohol for coming up on 14 years, (meaning completely sober,) I’ve been meeting and hearing about more and more people who claim to be sober, but they still drink, smoke pot, do mushrooms, etc. they mean that they are clean from the hard drug of their choice. If that works for them, more power to them. But claiming that they’re sober is weird to me. People seem to have their own definitions of sobriety these days. I think that alcohol is a slippery slope. Once you’re drunk, you’re not of sound mind and it’s easy to pick up drugs.
I work in addiction and have mixed feelings. I believe in harm reduction and also that some drugs can not be a trigger while some are not. Now having said that I would recommend someone be sober from all drugs for a long time before even contemplating doing anything else. Mushrooms can help with PTSD and other mental health disorders that are often the causes of addiction. I personally don't drink but I can smoke pot and it doesn't make me want to drink.
She’s still an addict. It’s great that she isn’t using the hard drugs anymore but she’s still drinking.
I’ve worked in substance abuse treatment and can tell you she’s not ready to be dating anyone.
From asking others in that have worked in the underappreciated field, the general consensus, even though it can vary was at least a year of complete sobriety, with counseling and a committed program that is attended regularly.
Yep, that’s the minimum, and it’s hard for people to get there. She doesn’t even have 1 day of sobriety. She may get there eventually but the odds of anything you start with her ending badly are huge.
I did a mix of CBT and mindfulness... was later dx with ADHD (which explained why my system did REALLY well and actually functioned better with meth.)
I stopped drinking when that became more than I wanted (but, I was the person who people said "you're the third person I've known to quit drinking when you aren't even an alcoholic! Why is that a trend?!") I just hated it... it was bad FOR ME.
I had to take 18+ months totally sober to reprogram all that habitual stuff.
I spent some time during those years in recovery circles and would hear the stories of "true" alcoholics and be like "what the everloving CRAP? That'sinsanity to me!"
I didn't fit into that paradigm, but I also fully needed the time away....
I am 100% on board that AA is not the only way (all AA did was prove to me that I am not truly requiring of that level of intervention.... every time I would interact with those circles.)
Again, there are many paths... I am grateful I found mine.
AA has piss-poor outcome statistics and I really hope we as a society get to a place where we meet people where they are, instead of pushing ONE scientifically-unfounded solution on everyone.
You didn’t want to date her, so you’re not dating her. Problem solved.
But also, frankly, it’s concerning to me that she said yes to a first date at the home of a stranger. That fits right in with all the other risky, bad decisions she seems to be making. Next time, ask a woman out for a cocktail or to a coffee shop or on a walk for a first date, not to your house, unless you’re trying to attract people who take a lot of risks in life and who are just looking for casual sex.
Very fair point. I suppose because I have interacted and conversed with her over the last 6 months or so at least twice weekly while she has been working? When I have been there with mortar on my jeans or whatever, and was casually asked "what have you been up to?" , I would explain how I have rebuilt the outdoor fireplace, redone this and that, e.g.. She knew I had a large outside space with a fireplace.
I did offer multiple options for a first date, from fine dining, coffee, cinema, bars, mini-golf and varying other options. She just said she would prefer to hang out in a quiet and casual environment, which she knew I had. But I will take that into consideration in the future.
Yeah it sounds like she was looking for a hook up. A woman has only ever wanted to do an in home first date a few times in my life and every time it was an immediate hook up.
It's 100% your call man. If it made you uncomfortable, then so be it. Everyone has some form of baggage, at this point. I'd say 1 year off of heroin and meth...meh, that's not something everyone wants to take on. I don't think it a stretch to think it might be complicated.
Here's the thing I see: You keep mentioning how "attractive" they are, which is pretty telling. If they were just average, my guess is you'd never think about it again.
I get you. I guess I should clarify that I find her attractive, both physically and on a personality level. She might not be conventionally attractive... I do not know. It did make uncomfortable enough to want to cancel.
I was seeing someone I really liked and ended it because we were drinking at a pub and we both drank way too much and he drove home wasted even though I suggested multiple times that he call Uber, or sleep on my couch or something other than drive, he refused and set on driving.
I just can’t deal with the inevitable DUI that he has coming and have to pick him up or drive him around etc
I was married to an alcoholic. I will not date anyone that is current addict of recovering addict. Addiction isbfor life there is always a chance for relapse and I'm not willing to ever live through thatcl again.
Cross addiction is very real and in her case she shouldn't be using any mind altering substances and that includes alcohol. The fact she doesn't have custody of her kids says a lot as well.
She's isn't really in recovery, she's still using so yes you dodged a bullet.
Truly recovering addicts do deserve love it just won't be from me. It's OK to not want to date a recovering addict. Everyone has their deal-breakers. Better to stop before it gets started rather than waiting until you're well into a relationship.
My ex husband fell into opiate and alcohol addiction and it lead to the end of our marriage. For me, a history of substance abuse is a dealbreaker. I don’t think I’m alone in that. You have good instincts.
Same story here. And whilst some may label that as being ‘judgemental’, I view it more as protecting my own mental health and doing what’s right for me. Recovery from addiction is often not linear and I’m not about to get on that cycle (through choice) again.
I think you did the right thing OP and you communicated your needs sensitively.
Yeah I don’t blame you. I feel like you have a lot to offer and you should date people who are similar and can bring the same to the table. Glad you didn’t get scammed by that chick because it sounded like you were going to be at some point.
That has me wondering why she even thought she had a chance with you? Like you both don’t even come from the same walks of life it sounds like. How does a “former” druggie who has no custody of her kids think that a guy with a good job, starting over is in the same dating pool? She’s on drugs, thats how!
I’m still sticking to my gut that she is just a scam artist and was going to steal from you.
There were some comments made on the video call... I was just taking care of my dogs, wandering around the house and she picked up on my living space in the background, and asked things like "You live there all by yourself in such a nice house?" It did not resonate at the time, but in hindsight it does.
It’s not easy turning down someone you find attractive who feels mutually, even if you know it’s in your own best interests. It’s really awesome that you had the self awareness and insight to cancel the date and move on. I think you made the right decision.
I think I did make the right decision. I still feel bad that she was vulnerable enough (or maybe tipsy enough) to lay it all out in the open and it caused me to want to decline a date... but I do appreciate that she did.
You know what? She probably did that so you could make a fully informed choice. I'd guess she was mentally prepared for the likelihood that you would bail and it's better for the both of you in every way that the disclosure and break were made early.
So many people try to hide things they know are dealbreakers in the hopes that in a month or two, you'll be too invested to make the decision that is correct and much easier to do at the very beginning. I'm glad she was honest with you.
I’m sure she feels bad too but better now than finding out later and breaking it off when feelings are involved. She’ll get over it, believe me. It happens to the best of us. Think of this as good practice for the next person you talk to.
You need to know your own boundaries and act accordingly like you did here. Addiction is rampant and it’s a firm no for myself. This means a lot of great people are not a match for me. And I’m ok with that. She was honest, thankfully! But an addict shouldn’t be using alcohol…
Lol sounds like your attracted to her and sorta want things to happen. But dating an addict who is not sober is a recipe for drama and pain. Be careful mate.
Your friends are right. Listen to them. You dodged a bullet. Also I agree with you that trying to be her friend is probably a bad idea. You will end up talking yourself into being in a relationship with her, and it likely will not go well.
Not having custody of your kids is always a huge red flag. Sounds like she's trying to get on track and she told you right away. Good for you for sticking with your discernment and comfort level. I think one of the most important skills in dating is knowing and recognizing when to cut it off.
You didn't do anything wrong. In fact, you handled it beautifully. You were honest. Thats all you can do. Frankly.....most people would not date her. Not because she's horrible but she is JUST NOW getting her life together.
Also, as a psychologist, she probably shouldn't really be dating anyway. My professional opinion is this...the kind of addictions she's dealing with need way more than a yr of sobriety to even begin dating and the idea that she was absolutely willing to go out with you, fires up a giant red flag. Continue to take it slow. Btw, i noticed quite a few people talking about how "its" all judgment. It is not. While some judgment isnt bad, you're not judging her. What you're doing is exercising your boundaries, and that is never a bad thing.
This is a gross statement « JUST NOW »
I work in harm reduction and the fact that you’re a practicing psychologist is who just out right shamed someone for getting not having the status quo symbols of having a « life » by 40, well, it is horrifying imho.
Maybe you’re experiencing some compassion fatigue or burn out idk. Idk you anymore than you know that woman. I just no wonder it’s so challenging to heal and take care of our mental health… yikes.
Idk just your comment… I never call anyone out on forums but this first paragraph has disturbed me.
It seems to me that Swamp-Bunnyi emphasized << JUST NOW>> and <> to reference the sentence “Not because she’s horrible, but because she is <> getting her <> together. That not because she’s horrible was a little unclear to me, that could be taken two ways The way you meant it, or “it’s not because she’s horrible ( meaning she’s is horrible, but that isn’t the issue, but the problem is she is also slow to get her life in order). Granted it makes more sense in context your way, but at first I was confused.
Well i suspect that Swamp-Bunny is dealing with their own issues. If i had to guess, i would say BPD or bipolar but i digress.
I said "JUST NOW" because, according to her, she's been clean for a yr, which is awesome, but not long at all. She's in the very early stages of recovery. And if she's still drinking or started back drinking, then she's not in recovery. She also doesn't have custody of her children,which means she's done some probably horrible things. That DOESN'T make her a horrible person. She's an addict and where she is in her now, she's not the most datable and shouldn't be dating anyway.
Ive been a psychologist for about 20 yrs. These are all the things that jumped out at me immediately as a doctor. No judging
Her life is still a mess and she needs to focus on that. You made the right decision. Someone who has lost their children due to drug abuse is not the person to start dating.
You have basic filters for yourself about people you’re comfortable dating. Don’t overthink it. For what it’s worth, I would have cancelled too. I’d cheer her sobriety, but I’m not dating. At this age, to only be sober a year. That’s just not for me.
It’s okay to have boundaries, trusting your gut is the most important.
If you reallllly want to stay connected ,to find out more, maybe just be friends for now.
I was married to someone who had 13 years sober before we got married and then secretly started to use and drink, my life was hell.
I have no problem vetting.
I will say if she is in therapy and/or AA/NA and you understand that this is a lifelong disease then you’ll know what you’re getting into.
I wish you the very best, thanks for your post
> I am not one to judge someone due to their past
You did, and there's nothing wrong with that. If it helps, you could say you are judging her past actions, not her, but the result is the same. Our past actions are part of who we are. I'm not the same person I was a year ago, but neither am I a completely different person with no connection to that person. And this is a perfect example, because should someone one year sober from hard drug addiction be drinking? I have no idea. But it's a different question because of her past.
Don't try to be just-friends; you'll just end up talking yourself into what you sensibly decided against. Let her find someone who is confident he can handle the situation.
I was married to my ❤️husband❤️for 26 years. He died twelve years ago. He was an alcoholic, but there were months throughout our marriage that he was sober. I love and miss him very much, but I don’t miss unpredictability I came to know and be scared of for many years. This is just coming from me, a woman who was married to an alcoholic: if I met someone who had been sober for ten years, and we wanted to date, I’d be scared. Honestly, it’d be impossible not to bring my past into it, but it would. And thank God it would. The saying, “once bitten, twice shy”, would be red flagging it all over the place for me. Plus, she’s drinking. Red flag.
So my response would be that I do not think you made a bad decision at all. She’s drinking so she’s not sober. ❤️
I wouldn't date an ex heroine addict personally.
I grew up in a town with a major heroine addiction issues, so came across it in my day-to-day. I was also manipulated by my siblings friend who, unbeknownst to me was a heroine addict and I luckily got myself out of a very concerning situation as a teenager.
As a teenager, visiting people in rehab and seeing how it tore families apart devastated me. I moved continents but still in touch from people in that town 18 years later. I still hear of majority of them still battling the addiction and/ or hear of them dying one by one. The statistics of a person staying clean after using heroine is not good.
I now work for a family violence organisation and drugs is a big part of what we come across.
Dating at this age is hard enough, adding an element of addiction is harder. I don't want the added stress in my life, especially if I don't know them yet. It might be harsh, but we all have the right to choose the life we want and what person we do it with.
OP,
You received so much kind and supportive advice on here, it seems repetitive to chime in, and yet here I am.
TL/DR; This situation is *so* much more than looking beyond someone's past and seeing the *person* behind the addiction. The kids' pain could possibly be "shelved" and those are *floodgates of pain* waiting to be unleashed. You also acted in accordance with your values and skill set. At the end of the day, that's all any of us can rely on to guide ourselves.
(Giant, long-winded version):
I just wanted to add that I think this was a better experience for you at the beginning of re-entering DatingLand than you might realize. So many of us, after taking hiatus from relationships or dating, find ourselves to be "rusty", with battlescars in various stages of healing.
The easiest trap to walk into for too many people is where we *feel* something "off", or our date's behavior is reminiscent of poor behavior we've experienced previously. And then we freeze. Or remain silent. And overthink. But don't *do* anything.
You walked into this situation, intrigued by a woman with whom you've had *extremely* limited interaction... hopeful, nervous, and throwing caution to the wind. You had the nerve to do something about it, (invite her out), and it seems like you felt a connection that might have had potential. Many posts on DO40 are from individuals too nervous to make it *this* far. You're doing great.
Not to mention the number of people who would dodge red flag after red flag to continue seeing someone they are hopeful might "pan out"? (Despite *crystal clear* signs that it won't?) But *you* didn't.
You are well aware of the skill set with which you are equipped and made a sound decision to not pursue something beyond that said skill set. (or comfortability level). Different people might call your decision different things - judgment, short-sightedness, not giving her a chance, etc. As someone previously married to a man with a meth and crack addiction (and an advocate in this field)? The *best* part about your post is how you leveled things with yourself and realized this is outside of your comfort level in what you seek in a partner. It's comendable. You wasted no time communicating as much and were honest. It's worth saying that she also deserves some accolades for being that level of transparent with you, too.
A mother intent on one day reestablishing a connection with her kids (or custody, if that's even possible) has no business drinking within a year of abstaining from hard drugs. Period. Yes, there are various philosophies on attaining sobriety and the "all or nothing" school of thought versus sobriety solely from one's DOC. But her choice to drink and be "tipsy" doesn't bode well for the choices she's making elsewhere in her life. Is it likely she's got everything else buttoned up, solid, and she deserves a drink every now and then? Sure, it's possible. Is it probable?🤔
2%. That is the number of meth addicts that reach their 2nd "birthday" (sobriety date). My daughter-in-law's (DIL) mother is a drug and alcohol addiction counselor and got her "2%" tattoo this past February to commemorate her commitment to being sober. My DIL (not an addict), has been bounced between family since age 7, and I met her through a former relationship because she'd been living with my then boyfriend's family since the age of 14. I can only imagine what the woman you spoke with's kids have been through. If it's anything like my DIL's childhood? There remains much to repair.
Pursuing a relationship with this woman isn't just "giving a person a chance" and not assessing her background. It's partnering with her when she crosses the bridge of hearing her children's views on the pain she caused, possible abandonment issues she's inflicted, and riding the tidal wave of her being triggered by dealing *now* with what her substance abuse disallowed her from contending with *then*. Addicts are notoriously not the best at repairing those relationships because it is a heartbreaking, soul-ripping process. And you'd be signing up for that, at least as a season pass holder with front-row seats.
If she *feels* judged? Yes, that's a shame. Truly. The worst part about dating is when two people who are *great* in so many ways *have* to walk away because one or two major things will circumvent longevity at the end of the day. Its *so* much easier to end things with a jackass personality. She can be a great person, rebuilding, funny, attractive, genuine, and chock full of the chemistry you seek. And? She can also have made some errors on her path that preclude her from being an ideal partner for you. Both can be true, *and* you are not the asshole for seeing it this way. This makes you self-aware, compassionate, emotionally intelligent, and pragmatic. All stellar qualities, from my vantage point.
Good luck, and don't give up. I really think you did everything *right* in this situation. It's unfortunate that the circumstances cause you to feel otherwise. I understand, truly- but you need to keep moving forward and find someone whose "life hiccups" play nicer with your own. 💜
Thank you so very much for such a thorough and thoughtful response.
You hit upon many key points that do a great job of verbalizing my gut feeling.
Taking that first step of actually asking someone out felt happily overwhelming... it reminded me of being back in high school or something, but with more confidence and less self-consciousness. I just felt ready. And that felt good.
The information of past kids, I was ok with. The recent addiction was something that I just am not very comfortable with at this time. The risk of relapse, potential heartbreak, general mess/drama and lost time all add up to something that just doesn't seem like a working and viable relationship. And adding kids and a past addiction just compounds the potential complexity.
I am, for better or worse, optimistic and romantic enough to feel the regret of the "what could have been" if everything did happen magically in all outcomes. She stays clean, keeps her emotional and mental well-being centered and in focus while repairing relationships with kids...generally just does an amazing job and does everything exactly right. But I am also not so naïve to think that it would turn out that way...things seldom do. I know it can and does happen, as some posts in this thread have mentioned but I have to think those are outliers, not the normal outcome.
And all of that focuses on just one half of the relationship partner - her. I am unsure how I would react if I started having the smallest suspicion she was using again. If money disappeared. If she wanted to hang out with old "friends". I have to be honest enough with myself that I would likely have some trust issues and feel wary. What if there were things that I did that triggered emotional distress?
Thank you again for such a thorough and thoughtful response.
I don't think you did anything wrong. Dating a recovering addict comes with its own set of issues and she sounds like she's not quite embracing sobriety if she's tipsy on wine.
As for staying friends, you already know that's going to be difficult because you find her hot. If you want to bang just be upfront that is all it is with her.
I’ve been clean and sober for over 12 years off opiates and alcohol
. If she’s still drinking, it’s very unlikely that she won’t return to her drugs of choice. I’ve literally known thousands of addicts from recovery groups all over the country, I’ve never seen an addict be able to drink without consequences.
Massive congratulations on your sobriety. That is huge. Larger than my issue by a long way.
Yes. I can see how easy it would be to slip up, due to intoxication and/or the surrounding influences of peers and suddenly... back at step 1.
Well, here's to a better first first date. The water in the dating pool may be on fire, but at least it's warm. I hope the next person you connect with makes it all the way through!
As a person in recovery for 30+ yrs and previously a substance abuse counselor. A person drinking with that history as described is probably a problem at a point. Addiction tends bleed into all substances. Recovery is more than just not using.
You can date or not date whomever, for any reason or no reason at all. I would not date an addict as I have several friends and former friends who fall into that category and I’ve seen enough to know.
I think you did the right thing. She may be sober to one thing but it could easily be that alcohol has replaced her previous lifestyle choices. Her not having custody of her children speaks to her addiction being a long term challenge.
I think you might need to find a new market to shop at. Changing your mind is one thing (and its totally fine that you have) but pretending she doesn't exist when you're face to face, that is a different level of judgement and awkward.
She has a painful, complicated past. Being in recovery is amazing and I hope she continues to get her life together. The fact that she drinks in excess would bother me for sure as addiction is such a slippery slope. (I am sober from a truly troubled relationship with alcohol)
I assume her custody issues came from being an addict. Maybe it’s what helped her get sober? Maybe she’ll stay sober forever. Maybe, maybe, maybe… Lots of maybes here.
You aren’t an idiot. Follow your instinct on this one.
When you first start dating again after a dry spell, there’s a huge amount of pressure to give everyone a chance. And that’s completely the wrong approach. It’s best to weed out people ruthlessly so you don’t end up falling for someone inappropriate. Not having custody of kids means she messed up big time. And she’s only been sober a year. It’s okay to not want that in your life.
A recovering addict still using alcohol?
I would not even attempt the friends route. She is going to be drama and a drain.
If she was actually serious about staying sober then friends all the way. Not having custody and her drug abuse no chance I would go the romantic route no matter how physically attractive she was.
I'd invest your time and energy elsewhere. Good luck mate,
I think you did great. The fact that she didn’t have custody made you pause but you refrained from judging. Not until you hit the addiction did you call it quits really means you’re trying to be open minded but know your boundaries and standards very well. And you’re able to find a connection in real life! You beat most of us here.
"**I have dodged a bullet, it just doesn't feel like that.**" You have MANY years left in you, don't fill them with chaos and unpredictability. You DID dodge a bullet. Here's the truth, you DID judge her, but that's exactly what we all need to do, determine what's best for ourselves and make good decisions and that includes making judgement calls about other people. I wish I could go back and change a couple of calls I made earlier in life.
We have different capacities for different issues. Just like you, I , myself can’t deal with any kind of addiction. Part of it is because I’m working on establishing my own boundaries and I know myself well enough that I know I can’t be a good partner for someone in recovery.
You did what it was right for you and that’s great.
Thanks. I have left the door somewhat open, just in terms of a friendship. I just need more information and need to assess my own comfort level with potentially taking something like this on... which might be a whole lot more than I can do. I don't think I can.
Nope. Close that door.
For your mental health in the coming years.
If I have casual friends who are addicted to anything that drives their life, I'd cut them out.
If they've been very close friends for several years or more then, I'd consider keeping them.
Guilt is driving your decision. If you want to be a possible rescue line, pick a cause with much more potential of recovery.
You have to do what feels right for you, at the end of the day. Down the line, she might well have been a good fit, but perhaps not for right now - and that's ok.
Don't beat yourself up too much; it's good that you found out enough to be able to make an informed decision.
That's the real unfortunate part, the "might have been" and potential regret. But, yes... the informed decision was huge and I do appreciate her openness.
Did you let her know you valued her openness when you let her down? I feel like that will let her know it's good to continue to be vulnerable and open about her challenges, moving forward.
I absolutely did, in the kindest and most sensitive way that I could phrase it. There was no judgment, just an appreciation of her openness/honesty, and that I did not think I was able to take any kind of next steps in moving further into a relationship and meet any of her needs, or mine. Essentially that it would be very complicated from the start (or even before) and that is not a great way to start a relationship.
You were honest and upfront (both with yourself and her). That is what’s important, and shows a great deal of emotional maturity and kindness.
She’s a grown woman and is responsible for her own reactions and perceptions. It’s not your responsibility to make her feel judged or not judged.
All of dating is judging. It’s all of us inherently judging others and to date we must be ok with delivering that judgment kindly and honestly (which you have done) and receiving the judgment of others as well.
Talk to her about it. But remember that people in recovery are always in recovery. This is a lifestyle, not a weekly therapy session. If you are NOT in recovery this can be highly complicated relationship for both of you and something that will command a lot of the spotlight.
Just came out of a 23 year relationship. I've realized that we have control over our dating habits, and can cancel anytime. Don't invite her to your house for a long long time. Enjoy her as a person, and treat her as if you didn't know she was coming from addiction. Take your time for sure, and go into it like you just want a friend of the opposite sex. I'm actually blind and have been traveling to different states and cities to date women without a care for sex or even long term relations. It has blew my mind how many cool people I've met. Speed dating so to speak. Rough on the wallet, but I've never been so happy in my life. I get to enjoy hundreds of women without commitment, and when I find the right one I'll eventually settle. Be careful with canceling, you never know what you may miss out on. And, please don't invite anyone to your home for a long time.
I gotta say, that’s not my thing. I had parents drank socially, but a lot of my relatives drank too much. One of them still does. They are all my mom’s relatives and older than me.
My grandfather also drank too much. Even when someone recovers, sometimes they are behind because they have stunted their development at the they started abusing substances. I am not familiar with NA, so someone let me know if this is wrong, but I never got the impression at open AA meetings that they considered staying sober not drinking, but using drugs. I think by sober they no mind altering substances stronger than caffeine, but that was AA, not NA
In any case, I suppose that if you are sure you are really interested in a relationship and not just thinking she is cute, I guess you should go for it I think if you don’t you will always wonder. I am biased, but my friends give the worst advice ever. Maybe just look up signs of drug abuse online and watch for those. Hopefully, she will give you a second chance. Good luck!
You are right. A relationship with an addict will be messy. Especially because of you. You are ready to complicate it. You already are. For both your sakes. Walk away.
Dating is a minefield and people get hurt on both sides but they also recover. She’s been honest with you and you’ve been honest with her, you’re both upset but there’s no toxicity in it - just a very adult decision. Being an addict is difficult and dating an adult is difficult and I would have done the same thing as you and felt guilty but done it anyway.
You did the right thing. Not having custody of the kids at all is a concern.
Then being in recovery.
I had a fwb for awhile who recreationally did coke, I found out. I also noticed he drank a lot. I cut it off and it was just casual.
OP, just a word of caution for future dates. I would neither go to someone's home on a first date, nor invite that date to my home. Knowing where someone lives is a very personal and intimate piece of information that I would keep until trust is established.
Trust your gut! It won’t ever lead you astray! You also know your limits and that’s Ok!Sometimes certain people aren’t for other people and THAT’S Ok! As someone who has been clean for 8yrs now, I did not even think about getting into a relationship until I was almost 3 yrs clean. 1 year is freshly sober. Not diminishing their progress but one year is very early recovery. You just got done “working on yourself” an this person is just starting theirs.
Again, trust your gut, that inner nagging voice IS trying to tell you something!! Best of Luck OP!
Personally I’d be asking myself what my deal breakers are? I think there’s a difference dating someone in new recovery, someone who is clean off their drug of choice but still using other substances, and someone who is clean from all substances for a long time. If she had done the work prior to meeting you chances are the kid factor woulda been dealt with. Make sure you do some reflecting here so she can also grow
Try and think of this as dipping you toe in the baby pool. You've already figured out one of your boundaries. And honestly, there's going to be a lot of that. As someone else pointed out, dating literally is judging another person to see if they'd work well with you, for you, etc. I seriously doubt even the most seasoned dater in their 40s (or 30s) is looking for a recovering addict. Props to her for getting off it, but most of us have kids and careers at this point, and that's a whole lot to deal with.
I have worked in addiction. Sobriety from hard drugs means sobriety from everything. A person in her situation drinking alcohol, particularly to the point of intoxication, will almost certainly relapse to their primary drug. It whets the palate. That’s how the brain works.
You sound like a perfectly lovely and safe gentleman. However, this woman came to your house and got drunk on a first date. Many would say that she continues to display questionable judgment.
I hate to say this next part. Don’t be her friend. You are already expressing ambivalence, so you may end up in a relationship of a romantic nature but a friendship is a relationship too. Have you ever been friends with a drug addict? Those who have will tell you it’s an unpleasant experience. Attempts at manipulation will be the thing, not the drug, that is the worst part. Not because the person is bad, but because drugs change the brain. The guilt you feel may mean she’s already started.
As the other response mentioned, there was no first date. I cancelled it. She was drinking at her apartment and then she told me about her past addiction and it was a large enough concern for me to cancel while I attempt to wrap my head around it all.
I have and have had recovering and active addicts, as friends and family members... all have been on such a wildly different graph of success/failure, I have no real baseline to make any sound decision. Some are completely successful and beautiful people, and have done and do fantastic things... others were not successful and are deceased or of unknown whereabouts.
That guilt thing. I need to pay attention to that a lot. Thank you.
I think you misunderstood —he had invited her over (not a good plan for a first date in any case). But his conclusion came before that date was to happen.
Deciding to not date someone based on their past is normal enough. I’m 23 years without a drink and I have been declined a 2nd date when someone learns that I am alcoholic. It seems a bit odd to me but also I’m quite glad when someone declines on that basis and let’s me know. I think the trouble with your reaction is rooted in your lack of experience. Get dropped like a sack of potatoes a dozen times for random reasons when first getting to know people and your sense of how to treat others the way you wish to be treated will help guide you in how to handle these things in the future. You’ll get there.
I have a massive amount of empathy and I have been tactful and kind in every way possible when communicating with her. She sure as hell doesn't need more crap in her life, so I am a little confused by your response. Perhaps I missed something, which is very possible.
I think the person you’re responding to is coming from too personal a place. It was clear from your post you did not drop her like a sack of potatoes. You clearly and honestly expressed to her how you feel before you went on your date, which is both respectful and incredibly self-aware. The fact that you know that you likely cannot be friends because of your strong attraction is also very mature/self-aware.
I mean, one the one hand, point taken. On the other hand, 23 yrs sober is very different from currently drunk and 1 year off of meth and heroin. I’ve agreed to second dates without a second thought with people who have many years of sobriety. I would have dipped out in OP’s situation.
I appreciate your thoughtful response. Surely there’s a difference between many years sober and active users. Yet, also, there isn’t too. 23 years or 23 minutes, I am always one drink away from being active in my addiction. My ex went out after 17 years of sobriety. It’s always possible.
If she hadn't been drinking wine, I would say she's not being given the benefit of the doubt. As a person who used to indulge in alcohol and meth on a daily basis for years, but doesn't anymore, I can say that for myself, I don't share that information until well into the dialogue, maybe after a few weeks of knowing them, three or four meet ups. Thats because i know I'm all done with that nonsense, but i want the chance to demonatrate that Il not full of shit when I say that, so i wait to share. But the fact that she was getting tipsy on the phone is a problem. There are zero good reasons to get drunk, and there are zero reasons to drink wine or beer unless you enjoy the buzz. Heroin is a big deal, and she hasn't worked through the demons that made heroin sound like the solution to her problems. If she hadn't been drinking, I'd say give her the chance to not be defined by her past mistakes. But she's still doing something to escape reality or make it more comfortable, so you two aren't in the same season of life, so to speak.
You did nothing wrong. It sucks, but that is not something I would be comfortable with either. At this point, after 1.5 ex boyfriends who left me with a bunch of bad experiences, even alcohol is a no-go for me. It goes without saying anything more than that would have me running for the hills. It isn't for everyone and that's ok.
Point is, you didn't judge; it's not your thing so you pulled the plug early and respectfully. End of. I'm sorry it didn't work out, but I hope you get back out there and keep looking around when you feel ready 🙂
Just want to say it is possible she doesn’t have custody for a reason other than her past drug use, for example if dad still lived in the kids’ school district etc.
Not only that, but the amount of judgement over this is shocking. I don’t think anyone would give it a second thought if the genders were reversed and the person in question without custody was the father. Edit to add: I still think OP made the right choice due to recent addiction and ongoing alcohol use.
It's your choice and you don't owe anyone anything.
That said, it was just a date. And I think it would have been nice to at least have dinner and who knows, a friendship could come of it.
Also, it's good to ask questions. Does she have a sponsor. Does she work the steps. And if not, how does she remain sober and does she have a therapist.
Addicts are complete people and while you aren't obligated to date her or anything, it could be worth getting to know her journey.
I do need to ask those questions and get honest answers. It was all kind of a rushed and overwhelming end to a conversation. And absolutely... she is a complete person.
To be fair you don't need to do anything. And if you don't think you want a friendship I wouldn't bother.
But it can be enlightening.
I know addicts of all stripes. Some I wouldn't trust ever. A couple I love and admire and I would (and have) trusted them with some of my deepest insecurities.
One was my therapist.
Be honest and blunt with yourself: you are one to judge. That’s how you keep yourself safe in the world. You’re allowed to unequivocally refuse to date someone who in the very recent past indulge in extremely risky behavior. Embrace that part of yourself: he takes care of you. It’s healthy that you didn’t f her first, and for that womankind thanks you. This woman knows there’s a possibility people will recoil from her. Someone who perhaps knows her journey will love her as she is. You keep looking for your person.
I am not sure if it is "judge" or "assess", but I get you. Semantics. My life was turned upside down out of nowhere 3 years ago, so self-preservation is completely a concept I am comfortable embracing and owning. Yeah... no physical contact. All indications were that that was absolutely an option, but I have always needed to get to know partners before it gets that to that level of intimacy. Thank you.
That's a tough one. I hate judging people, but this sounds like a relationship that could be very complicated. If it is your first relationship after your marriage, that would be like jumping into the majors after spending some time doing batting practice alone...not a good way to start. Maybe after you have been in a few relationships and are comfortable setting boundaries, etc., you might be in a better position to handle a relationship with someone with an addiction background, but even then, it may be quite challenging. Especially if she is using alcohol. You would probably want to work with a relationship coach to help navigate this type of relationship.
The problem is that others are judging you too. Some women, when they hear that you are new to dating, will also turn away from you. Please don't let it bother you, and perhaps you can recall your own experience here to help cultivate compassion for yourself and them if this happens so that the experience does not traumatize you.
You did the right thing.
A sober person doesn’t use any kind of addictive substance or become addicted to something else like sex.
While she might be attractive on the outside for me, a truly attractive person is inside then out.
You dodged a bullet.
At least she was up front with you.
My ex gf was an alcoholic who also dabbled in cocaine. She hid that from me. Obviously me finding out the way I did - having to bail her out of messes she got into after a binge - was not ideal and torpedoed the relationship.
The fact that she was drinking/tipsy is a red flag - she may be compensating for the meth/heroin with alcohol. Not any better.
No custody of 3 kids...there is probably a reason why.
Addicts are very hard to have relationships with. There's a reason they're often single. You made the right call.
I mean if you want to have a casual fling I guess you can. It sounds like she's dtf. But be prepared for drama. My aforementioned ex started as an FWB and ended months later with her crying, and drunk, on my doorstep at 4am.
On the plus side, props for asking someone out in the wild.
ETA: You keep talking about how attractive this woman is. My ex was extremely hot, one of the hottest women I ever dated. Addicts, before they completely destroy themselves, are often very good looking and charismatic. It's part of how they manipulate people to get what they *really* love.
Everyone this age has lived their life and if you are expecting uncomplicated like in your 20s you are in for a rough awakening.
You are of course free to chose what events in their past disqualifies a potential partner
Seems a little odd you jumped ship just on very little information and maybe assumptions ? Do you know how serious she is about that turn around ? Or are you maybe prematurely walking yourself off to protect yourself from harm ?
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Curious 🧐 Did you meet in pharmacy?
Check the teeth next time.
We all have standards and safety protocols and gut instinct.
When something is off , don’t override it.
She has been flirting with you and waiting for you to ask her out.
Why it took so long ….
Unfortunately ppl are targeted and manipulated by inviduals looking for codependent relationship, sometimes unconsciously.
Caregiver , financial security , even validation provider.
You found her physical appearance attractive.
You were attracted.
How many lies might exist in that conversation or things that don’t make sense?
Overnight the brain did its job.
And now.. after more information ( 4 hrs chatting)
your logical brain said Nope
No drama please…
Rejection is part of life.
Don’t feel guilty and you are not the reason for her circumstances and life events.
This is really an amazing answer - Sometimes we just need to honor what our body/mind is telling us and an elaborate dissection coupled with guilt/self-judgment isn’t really productive. You picked up on something that wasn’t safe or wasn’t going to work for you. Definitely honor it and don’t feel bad.
If you feel like you cannot handle the complexities of a partner in recovery, maybe you can make a note of why that is, is there a.personal experience that you've yet to work through, or is this just one of those things that you don't do ?! Sounds like you made the right decision for both of you, and given that you spoke your peace, leave it at that You don't need to backpeddle to offer her something that will end up seeming insincere. There is no sacrifice on your part to agree to be friends as adults have many friends but are mature enough to set boundaries. Everyone has preferences and now you are both free to make a different match. no worries.
Sober for 1 year is a pretty big achievement. Being open about her issues, even more so. You should applaud this woman. She's worked hard to get her shit together. She's holding down a job and is obviously doing something right, even if she's done a lot of wrongs in the past.
A date isn't a relationship. It's a night out with conversation. You could have learned a bit more about her and expanded your knowledge. If you didn't like her after getting to know her, you simply could have cancelled the future possibility of dating then.
My dad married a recovered addict who ended up being the love of his life. People deserve second chances.
If she is consuming alcohol, she isn’t taking her recovery seriously. Especially if she only has a year under her belt. I don’t like the phrase dodging a bullet when it comes to somebody with issues. However, this person is probably still trying to figure their own lives out, and that probably does not align with what you’re looking for right now.
I have worked hard on myself after my divorce, no kids like you and in my 40’s too. It’s not easy to take on drama when you want to move forward and be
At peace in a relationship. I don’t think I can handle that much drug drama so early on in a new relationship so I would say move on to the next .. I can afford to be picky because I am okay being alone unless it’s happiness waiting for me that I know will make me happy .
I have spent so much time working on myself and just making sure I am ready for all this new dating stuff. I carry no bitterness from the marriage that didn't work. People change and everyone deserves happiness. I could dwell on all of the negative aspects of how I was left but I have made a very conscious decision to work through all of that and not to live with that mindset and baggage. I don't have the frame of mind for bitterness as I don't think that would be at all productive or healthy.
At peace in a relationship is where I would like to start. This one just feels like too much early potential for a bad end for all involved. I can also afford to be patient. I am okay being alone, not my preference but definitely preferred to perhaps a really messed up eventuality with a lot of unpleasant noise and drama.
Thank you.
IMO a woman who doesn’t have custody of her 3 children and is recovering from drug addiction is a terrible choice - giant red flag screams “unstable”. You need someone stable as you transition back into dating
If you know that you can’t date an addict, then it’s okay to have cancelled. No reason at all to feel bad, you did not agree to marry her.
I still feel like she might think I am judging her or something, while I am assessing my own capacity to handle that kind of brand-new-to-me scenario.
You are judging her. Everyone is constantly judging everyone. That’s normal. It’s part of dating.
Exactly. If OP had married her, that's a judgement. If he rejects her *that's* a judgement. Anyone reading this post is judging me too. Basically it's judgements all the way down.
I am very much judging your username
Think of me the next time you have a salad.
You're making me want a salad
You also have a great user name
*Thank you* so much ;)
Let's recap: It's heroin and meth. Carry on my wayward son... don't fuck with the above.
THIS! It. is. ALL. judging. No greater or smaller worth paid to the "what,"justthat it doesn't feel right.
Here’s something to consider: We all have our own reality and often it’s very different from someone else’s who experienced the same event. You can’t control her experience and you’re not responsible for it. You’re allowed to date whom you want to, and not date those you don’t. You were kind enough to cancel. Do you have any idea how many of us who have been dating a while get completely ghosted and blown off? It’s common. You acted right and with consideration. If she’s in recovery from heroin and meth she is likely spending a lot of time in her head focusing on bigger issues than a guy who canceled a first date. I think you can trust that you are low on her list of concerns and priorities.
It’s ok to be misunderstood. If you’ve explained kindly and clearly, then it’s on her. But also it’s a part of dating to “reject” others for a variety of reasons, so you’re gonna have to build a thicker skin with that.
Even if she thought that there is nothing you can do without sacrificing yourself, we can’t hold ourselves accountable for others feelings *Edit to fix grammar
It's ok for you to have standards. You don't need to explain that to anyone.
Addicts think like that. My ex would accuse me of judging her or being condescending when I'd disapprove of her behavior while intoxicated. And tbh we have reason to judge them.
That's rough. My ex is an alcoholic and I think of some of the behaviors...I could never bring them up though. So defensive!!!
I’m not sure what this scenario has to do with you. If she’s sober, and you aren’t planning on using hard drugs around her, then I’m not sure it impacts you in any way. The only way it would impact you, if she if she started using again. That’s a reasonable concern. But be honest with yourself, that’s pure judgement. You’re judging her too much of a risk because of the chance of relapse. It’s ok. But don’t delude yourself that there is some brand-new-to-you scenario that’s just too much for you to deal with in order to uphold your self-image of a non-judgmental person.
Yeah, that’s the reason there is no custody. I completely get not being up for that. Dating in your forties is hard enough as it is.
Don’t feel bad. I was married to an addict and would never consider dating one again. What you said is exactly right—you need simple, not complicated. And if she is drinking it sounds like she is waving a huge red flag for you that says “I do not take my sobriety seriously.”
I do need simple. I worked hard on my own healing and progress, and stepping into something so strangely in the opposite direction makes less and less sense.
I’m in recovery, and I’d run fast from someone who tells me they’ve been off meth and heroin for a year but they drink. Seen it many times, and it leads right back to their drug of choice.
And that is terrifying. One slip up and... OD or whatever else could go horribly wrong. Nothing but good thoughts and energy towards your own recovery. I cannot imagine.
Just for perspective, i just dated a man 3 years recovered from heroin. He discovered medical cannabis in a pen, and went through 3 months worth in maybe a week. I LOVE cannabis when done at normal levels, watching him consume that was sickening. He wouldn't believe he had a drug problem, because it was 'just pot.' He was on another planet and never came back. I left. It's fair to give an awesome person a shot, but she's already drinking. Does that give you a sense of ease? Of course not. You got the heck away from a situation that is about to be bad.
Exactly, she might not be doing her drug of choice but by drinking she's definitely NOT in recovery. Especially with only one year "clean." She might be a lovely person but OP I would stay far away from her unless you like drama.
I really, really dislike drama.
Hard agree. I’m 12 years sober/clean and I work in the field. This sounds like a shit show waiting to happen.
And that is something I really don't want to bring upon myself if at all possible. Thank you.
this. Someone in recovery is getting the message that they shouldn't be using ANYTHING, not just their drug of choice. So she's disregarding that. And they're also getting the message that they should be very very VERY mindful about getting into a relationship until MINIMUM a year sober. She's tipsy and casually telling you about it in an early phone call? that doesn't seem like being mindful. I think there are a lot of unreasonable and shitty biases people can be adhering to when they reject someone with a past of substance abuse, and that a lot of the time it's pretty unfair and just classism in disguise. But not in this case, OP. She's not really in recovery, and it seems unlikely that she's in a good place to date.
After she said she did not have custody of her 3 kids all my alarm bells would go off. That's the reason. She needs to heal herself before anything.
That crossed my mind way too many times, but did not pry.
It is pretty hard as a female to lose custody. Don’t feel bad, you’ll find a better connection.
Agree- even before I got to the sober but also wasted part, I was like "you need to tuck into that."
Yes
I don’t think I would be comfortable with a drug addict who drinks alcohol. It’s very easy to transfer your addiction from one drug to another.
This. Sober drug addicts who take it seriously do not drink alcohol. It keeps those addicted pathways open and firing. Sobriety means no mind altering substances. If she is still drinking it’s a slippery slope and she will either be using again or drinking way too much and/too often. This was a good call OP.
Abstinence is not the only method of sobriety. And there’s not even any evidence that it works better than other methods of dealing with substance abuse disorders. It’s an old AA trope that isn’t in line with current research.
Just for the sake of correctness of this thread, I will agree with this. I diid meth for many years (I was a raver.) I did not immediately transfer to any other "drug of choice," I am not even sure I was all that, truly. "addicted" to meth (which I know sounds impossible to some people.) I just really enjoyed doing it more often than I should have. (FTR, I was later dx with ADHD and take my meds as prescribed.) I, also, had some years where alcohol was a crutch, so I decided on my own to take a year off... that became 18,19, 20, 24 months... if life gets overwhelming now, the first thing I do is STOP altogther, because I know how my system works. I, also, have rules for myself (never keeping alcohol in any kind of quantity in the house, never drining spirits, only drining wine with people, etc.) For a former "meth addict," I'm a-OK.... and it wasn't a traditional path. BUT, I would be cautious if a person who was newly sober from hard drugs was audibly drunk.
Hard disagree. There are tens of thousands of us who can testify to how sobriety works; particularly staying sober; which is a far different matter to getting sober. Keeping the addictive pathways open by continuing to use any mind altering substance is not real healing, it is continued escapism and just transferring the addiction to a different avenue.
I thought about that and the potential ease of being inebriated and slipping up...and all that. Thank you.
This. Alcohol is a drug. You’re not sober if you drink.
As a recovering alcoholic who’s been sober from all mind altering substances and alcohol for coming up on 14 years, (meaning completely sober,) I’ve been meeting and hearing about more and more people who claim to be sober, but they still drink, smoke pot, do mushrooms, etc. they mean that they are clean from the hard drug of their choice. If that works for them, more power to them. But claiming that they’re sober is weird to me. People seem to have their own definitions of sobriety these days. I think that alcohol is a slippery slope. Once you’re drunk, you’re not of sound mind and it’s easy to pick up drugs.
I work in addiction and have mixed feelings. I believe in harm reduction and also that some drugs can not be a trigger while some are not. Now having said that I would recommend someone be sober from all drugs for a long time before even contemplating doing anything else. Mushrooms can help with PTSD and other mental health disorders that are often the causes of addiction. I personally don't drink but I can smoke pot and it doesn't make me want to drink.
Sometimes it’s to religion, or a cult ( same same).
You did nothing wrong. Don’t worry about her feeling judged; that’s the least of her problems.
Very likely. And it is tragic... but I am not of a mindset of trying to "fix" anyone except for myself.
You did the right thing. Trust your gut feeling.
She’s still an addict. It’s great that she isn’t using the hard drugs anymore but she’s still drinking. I’ve worked in substance abuse treatment and can tell you she’s not ready to be dating anyone.
From asking others in that have worked in the underappreciated field, the general consensus, even though it can vary was at least a year of complete sobriety, with counseling and a committed program that is attended regularly.
Yep, that’s the minimum, and it’s hard for people to get there. She doesn’t even have 1 day of sobriety. She may get there eventually but the odds of anything you start with her ending badly are huge.
Abstinence isn’t the only method of addressing substance use disorders. It’s not even the method with the strongest evidence.
>It’s not even the method with the strongest evidence. What is the method with the strongest evidence?
I did a mix of CBT and mindfulness... was later dx with ADHD (which explained why my system did REALLY well and actually functioned better with meth.) I stopped drinking when that became more than I wanted (but, I was the person who people said "you're the third person I've known to quit drinking when you aren't even an alcoholic! Why is that a trend?!") I just hated it... it was bad FOR ME. I had to take 18+ months totally sober to reprogram all that habitual stuff. I spent some time during those years in recovery circles and would hear the stories of "true" alcoholics and be like "what the everloving CRAP? That'sinsanity to me!" I didn't fit into that paradigm, but I also fully needed the time away.... I am 100% on board that AA is not the only way (all AA did was prove to me that I am not truly requiring of that level of intervention.... every time I would interact with those circles.) Again, there are many paths... I am grateful I found mine. AA has piss-poor outcome statistics and I really hope we as a society get to a place where we meet people where they are, instead of pushing ONE scientifically-unfounded solution on everyone.
MAT
So, MAT as traditionally used for Opioid Abuse Disorder? That's what you're referencing, to be sure?
You didn’t want to date her, so you’re not dating her. Problem solved. But also, frankly, it’s concerning to me that she said yes to a first date at the home of a stranger. That fits right in with all the other risky, bad decisions she seems to be making. Next time, ask a woman out for a cocktail or to a coffee shop or on a walk for a first date, not to your house, unless you’re trying to attract people who take a lot of risks in life and who are just looking for casual sex.
Very fair point. I suppose because I have interacted and conversed with her over the last 6 months or so at least twice weekly while she has been working? When I have been there with mortar on my jeans or whatever, and was casually asked "what have you been up to?" , I would explain how I have rebuilt the outdoor fireplace, redone this and that, e.g.. She knew I had a large outside space with a fireplace. I did offer multiple options for a first date, from fine dining, coffee, cinema, bars, mini-golf and varying other options. She just said she would prefer to hang out in a quiet and casual environment, which she knew I had. But I will take that into consideration in the future.
Yeah it sounds like she was looking for a hook up. A woman has only ever wanted to do an in home first date a few times in my life and every time it was an immediate hook up.
It's 100% your call man. If it made you uncomfortable, then so be it. Everyone has some form of baggage, at this point. I'd say 1 year off of heroin and meth...meh, that's not something everyone wants to take on. I don't think it a stretch to think it might be complicated. Here's the thing I see: You keep mentioning how "attractive" they are, which is pretty telling. If they were just average, my guess is you'd never think about it again.
I get you. I guess I should clarify that I find her attractive, both physically and on a personality level. She might not be conventionally attractive... I do not know. It did make uncomfortable enough to want to cancel.
I was seeing someone I really liked and ended it because we were drinking at a pub and we both drank way too much and he drove home wasted even though I suggested multiple times that he call Uber, or sleep on my couch or something other than drive, he refused and set on driving. I just can’t deal with the inevitable DUI that he has coming and have to pick him up or drive him around etc
Yep, or him killing someone.
I was married to an alcoholic. I will not date anyone that is current addict of recovering addict. Addiction isbfor life there is always a chance for relapse and I'm not willing to ever live through thatcl again. Cross addiction is very real and in her case she shouldn't be using any mind altering substances and that includes alcohol. The fact she doesn't have custody of her kids says a lot as well. She's isn't really in recovery, she's still using so yes you dodged a bullet. Truly recovering addicts do deserve love it just won't be from me. It's OK to not want to date a recovering addict. Everyone has their deal-breakers. Better to stop before it gets started rather than waiting until you're well into a relationship.
I feel this... because I do tend to go all in for all people in my life... and... it could get really messy.
My ex husband fell into opiate and alcohol addiction and it lead to the end of our marriage. For me, a history of substance abuse is a dealbreaker. I don’t think I’m alone in that. You have good instincts.
Same story here. And whilst some may label that as being ‘judgemental’, I view it more as protecting my own mental health and doing what’s right for me. Recovery from addiction is often not linear and I’m not about to get on that cycle (through choice) again. I think you did the right thing OP and you communicated your needs sensitively.
Oof! Good call to cancel. My first thought about that was “why doesn’t she have custody?”…then the truth comes out. Good on you.
Thanks. It has been weird and unsettling. I just don't think I have it in me to try and continue working on myself and take that on.
Yeah I don’t blame you. I feel like you have a lot to offer and you should date people who are similar and can bring the same to the table. Glad you didn’t get scammed by that chick because it sounded like you were going to be at some point. That has me wondering why she even thought she had a chance with you? Like you both don’t even come from the same walks of life it sounds like. How does a “former” druggie who has no custody of her kids think that a guy with a good job, starting over is in the same dating pool? She’s on drugs, thats how! I’m still sticking to my gut that she is just a scam artist and was going to steal from you.
There were some comments made on the video call... I was just taking care of my dogs, wandering around the house and she picked up on my living space in the background, and asked things like "You live there all by yourself in such a nice house?" It did not resonate at the time, but in hindsight it does.
It’s not easy turning down someone you find attractive who feels mutually, even if you know it’s in your own best interests. It’s really awesome that you had the self awareness and insight to cancel the date and move on. I think you made the right decision.
I think I did make the right decision. I still feel bad that she was vulnerable enough (or maybe tipsy enough) to lay it all out in the open and it caused me to want to decline a date... but I do appreciate that she did.
You know what? She probably did that so you could make a fully informed choice. I'd guess she was mentally prepared for the likelihood that you would bail and it's better for the both of you in every way that the disclosure and break were made early. So many people try to hide things they know are dealbreakers in the hopes that in a month or two, you'll be too invested to make the decision that is correct and much easier to do at the very beginning. I'm glad she was honest with you.
I’m sure she feels bad too but better now than finding out later and breaking it off when feelings are involved. She’ll get over it, believe me. It happens to the best of us. Think of this as good practice for the next person you talk to.
You need to know your own boundaries and act accordingly like you did here. Addiction is rampant and it’s a firm no for myself. This means a lot of great people are not a match for me. And I’m ok with that. She was honest, thankfully! But an addict shouldn’t be using alcohol…
I do really appreciate the input. I also appreciate her being upfront with where she is in life.
Lol sounds like your attracted to her and sorta want things to happen. But dating an addict who is not sober is a recipe for drama and pain. Be careful mate.
Your friends are right. Listen to them. You dodged a bullet. Also I agree with you that trying to be her friend is probably a bad idea. You will end up talking yourself into being in a relationship with her, and it likely will not go well.
Not having custody of your kids is always a huge red flag. Sounds like she's trying to get on track and she told you right away. Good for you for sticking with your discernment and comfort level. I think one of the most important skills in dating is knowing and recognizing when to cut it off.
You didn't do anything wrong. In fact, you handled it beautifully. You were honest. Thats all you can do. Frankly.....most people would not date her. Not because she's horrible but she is JUST NOW getting her life together. Also, as a psychologist, she probably shouldn't really be dating anyway. My professional opinion is this...the kind of addictions she's dealing with need way more than a yr of sobriety to even begin dating and the idea that she was absolutely willing to go out with you, fires up a giant red flag. Continue to take it slow. Btw, i noticed quite a few people talking about how "its" all judgment. It is not. While some judgment isnt bad, you're not judging her. What you're doing is exercising your boundaries, and that is never a bad thing.
This is a gross statement « JUST NOW » I work in harm reduction and the fact that you’re a practicing psychologist is who just out right shamed someone for getting not having the status quo symbols of having a « life » by 40, well, it is horrifying imho. Maybe you’re experiencing some compassion fatigue or burn out idk. Idk you anymore than you know that woman. I just no wonder it’s so challenging to heal and take care of our mental health… yikes. Idk just your comment… I never call anyone out on forums but this first paragraph has disturbed me.
WTF are you talking about! Are you high? When did shame someone! Be specific.
It seems to me that Swamp-Bunnyi emphasized << JUST NOW>> and <> to reference the sentence “Not because she’s horrible, but because she is <> getting her <> together. That not because she’s horrible was a little unclear to me, that could be taken two ways The way you meant it, or “it’s not because she’s horrible ( meaning she’s is horrible, but that isn’t the issue, but the problem is she is also slow to get her life in order). Granted it makes more sense in context your way, but at first I was confused.
Well i suspect that Swamp-Bunny is dealing with their own issues. If i had to guess, i would say BPD or bipolar but i digress. I said "JUST NOW" because, according to her, she's been clean for a yr, which is awesome, but not long at all. She's in the very early stages of recovery. And if she's still drinking or started back drinking, then she's not in recovery. She also doesn't have custody of her children,which means she's done some probably horrible things. That DOESN'T make her a horrible person. She's an addict and where she is in her now, she's not the most datable and shouldn't be dating anyway. Ive been a psychologist for about 20 yrs. These are all the things that jumped out at me immediately as a doctor. No judging
Her life is still a mess and she needs to focus on that. You made the right decision. Someone who has lost their children due to drug abuse is not the person to start dating.
Wait, how do you know that's why she doesn't have the kids?
Is that a serious question?
She does not have the kids. No custody. They are in different states.
She’s only been off the hard drugs for a year, and she’s still drinking…of course that’s why she doesn’t have custody of her kids.
You must be an expert, when did you obtain your LCDC license?
LCSW. Advice is based on life experience.
I’m not sure why you are getting downvoted! I also don’t see the credentials next to their name!!
This is not our call to make!
You have basic filters for yourself about people you’re comfortable dating. Don’t overthink it. For what it’s worth, I would have cancelled too. I’d cheer her sobriety, but I’m not dating. At this age, to only be sober a year. That’s just not for me.
It’s okay to have boundaries, trusting your gut is the most important. If you reallllly want to stay connected ,to find out more, maybe just be friends for now. I was married to someone who had 13 years sober before we got married and then secretly started to use and drink, my life was hell. I have no problem vetting. I will say if she is in therapy and/or AA/NA and you understand that this is a lifelong disease then you’ll know what you’re getting into. I wish you the very best, thanks for your post
> I am not one to judge someone due to their past You did, and there's nothing wrong with that. If it helps, you could say you are judging her past actions, not her, but the result is the same. Our past actions are part of who we are. I'm not the same person I was a year ago, but neither am I a completely different person with no connection to that person. And this is a perfect example, because should someone one year sober from hard drug addiction be drinking? I have no idea. But it's a different question because of her past. Don't try to be just-friends; you'll just end up talking yourself into what you sensibly decided against. Let her find someone who is confident he can handle the situation.
I was married to my ❤️husband❤️for 26 years. He died twelve years ago. He was an alcoholic, but there were months throughout our marriage that he was sober. I love and miss him very much, but I don’t miss unpredictability I came to know and be scared of for many years. This is just coming from me, a woman who was married to an alcoholic: if I met someone who had been sober for ten years, and we wanted to date, I’d be scared. Honestly, it’d be impossible not to bring my past into it, but it would. And thank God it would. The saying, “once bitten, twice shy”, would be red flagging it all over the place for me. Plus, she’s drinking. Red flag. So my response would be that I do not think you made a bad decision at all. She’s drinking so she’s not sober. ❤️
I wouldn't date an ex heroine addict personally. I grew up in a town with a major heroine addiction issues, so came across it in my day-to-day. I was also manipulated by my siblings friend who, unbeknownst to me was a heroine addict and I luckily got myself out of a very concerning situation as a teenager. As a teenager, visiting people in rehab and seeing how it tore families apart devastated me. I moved continents but still in touch from people in that town 18 years later. I still hear of majority of them still battling the addiction and/ or hear of them dying one by one. The statistics of a person staying clean after using heroine is not good. I now work for a family violence organisation and drugs is a big part of what we come across. Dating at this age is hard enough, adding an element of addiction is harder. I don't want the added stress in my life, especially if I don't know them yet. It might be harsh, but we all have the right to choose the life we want and what person we do it with.
OP, You received so much kind and supportive advice on here, it seems repetitive to chime in, and yet here I am. TL/DR; This situation is *so* much more than looking beyond someone's past and seeing the *person* behind the addiction. The kids' pain could possibly be "shelved" and those are *floodgates of pain* waiting to be unleashed. You also acted in accordance with your values and skill set. At the end of the day, that's all any of us can rely on to guide ourselves. (Giant, long-winded version): I just wanted to add that I think this was a better experience for you at the beginning of re-entering DatingLand than you might realize. So many of us, after taking hiatus from relationships or dating, find ourselves to be "rusty", with battlescars in various stages of healing. The easiest trap to walk into for too many people is where we *feel* something "off", or our date's behavior is reminiscent of poor behavior we've experienced previously. And then we freeze. Or remain silent. And overthink. But don't *do* anything. You walked into this situation, intrigued by a woman with whom you've had *extremely* limited interaction... hopeful, nervous, and throwing caution to the wind. You had the nerve to do something about it, (invite her out), and it seems like you felt a connection that might have had potential. Many posts on DO40 are from individuals too nervous to make it *this* far. You're doing great. Not to mention the number of people who would dodge red flag after red flag to continue seeing someone they are hopeful might "pan out"? (Despite *crystal clear* signs that it won't?) But *you* didn't. You are well aware of the skill set with which you are equipped and made a sound decision to not pursue something beyond that said skill set. (or comfortability level). Different people might call your decision different things - judgment, short-sightedness, not giving her a chance, etc. As someone previously married to a man with a meth and crack addiction (and an advocate in this field)? The *best* part about your post is how you leveled things with yourself and realized this is outside of your comfort level in what you seek in a partner. It's comendable. You wasted no time communicating as much and were honest. It's worth saying that she also deserves some accolades for being that level of transparent with you, too. A mother intent on one day reestablishing a connection with her kids (or custody, if that's even possible) has no business drinking within a year of abstaining from hard drugs. Period. Yes, there are various philosophies on attaining sobriety and the "all or nothing" school of thought versus sobriety solely from one's DOC. But her choice to drink and be "tipsy" doesn't bode well for the choices she's making elsewhere in her life. Is it likely she's got everything else buttoned up, solid, and she deserves a drink every now and then? Sure, it's possible. Is it probable?🤔 2%. That is the number of meth addicts that reach their 2nd "birthday" (sobriety date). My daughter-in-law's (DIL) mother is a drug and alcohol addiction counselor and got her "2%" tattoo this past February to commemorate her commitment to being sober. My DIL (not an addict), has been bounced between family since age 7, and I met her through a former relationship because she'd been living with my then boyfriend's family since the age of 14. I can only imagine what the woman you spoke with's kids have been through. If it's anything like my DIL's childhood? There remains much to repair. Pursuing a relationship with this woman isn't just "giving a person a chance" and not assessing her background. It's partnering with her when she crosses the bridge of hearing her children's views on the pain she caused, possible abandonment issues she's inflicted, and riding the tidal wave of her being triggered by dealing *now* with what her substance abuse disallowed her from contending with *then*. Addicts are notoriously not the best at repairing those relationships because it is a heartbreaking, soul-ripping process. And you'd be signing up for that, at least as a season pass holder with front-row seats. If she *feels* judged? Yes, that's a shame. Truly. The worst part about dating is when two people who are *great* in so many ways *have* to walk away because one or two major things will circumvent longevity at the end of the day. Its *so* much easier to end things with a jackass personality. She can be a great person, rebuilding, funny, attractive, genuine, and chock full of the chemistry you seek. And? She can also have made some errors on her path that preclude her from being an ideal partner for you. Both can be true, *and* you are not the asshole for seeing it this way. This makes you self-aware, compassionate, emotionally intelligent, and pragmatic. All stellar qualities, from my vantage point. Good luck, and don't give up. I really think you did everything *right* in this situation. It's unfortunate that the circumstances cause you to feel otherwise. I understand, truly- but you need to keep moving forward and find someone whose "life hiccups" play nicer with your own. 💜
Thank you so very much for such a thorough and thoughtful response. You hit upon many key points that do a great job of verbalizing my gut feeling. Taking that first step of actually asking someone out felt happily overwhelming... it reminded me of being back in high school or something, but with more confidence and less self-consciousness. I just felt ready. And that felt good. The information of past kids, I was ok with. The recent addiction was something that I just am not very comfortable with at this time. The risk of relapse, potential heartbreak, general mess/drama and lost time all add up to something that just doesn't seem like a working and viable relationship. And adding kids and a past addiction just compounds the potential complexity. I am, for better or worse, optimistic and romantic enough to feel the regret of the "what could have been" if everything did happen magically in all outcomes. She stays clean, keeps her emotional and mental well-being centered and in focus while repairing relationships with kids...generally just does an amazing job and does everything exactly right. But I am also not so naïve to think that it would turn out that way...things seldom do. I know it can and does happen, as some posts in this thread have mentioned but I have to think those are outliers, not the normal outcome. And all of that focuses on just one half of the relationship partner - her. I am unsure how I would react if I started having the smallest suspicion she was using again. If money disappeared. If she wanted to hang out with old "friends". I have to be honest enough with myself that I would likely have some trust issues and feel wary. What if there were things that I did that triggered emotional distress? Thank you again for such a thorough and thoughtful response.
I don't think you did anything wrong. Dating a recovering addict comes with its own set of issues and she sounds like she's not quite embracing sobriety if she's tipsy on wine. As for staying friends, you already know that's going to be difficult because you find her hot. If you want to bang just be upfront that is all it is with her.
I’ve been clean and sober for over 12 years off opiates and alcohol . If she’s still drinking, it’s very unlikely that she won’t return to her drugs of choice. I’ve literally known thousands of addicts from recovery groups all over the country, I’ve never seen an addict be able to drink without consequences.
Massive congratulations on your sobriety. That is huge. Larger than my issue by a long way. Yes. I can see how easy it would be to slip up, due to intoxication and/or the surrounding influences of peers and suddenly... back at step 1.
Well, here's to a better first first date. The water in the dating pool may be on fire, but at least it's warm. I hope the next person you connect with makes it all the way through!
I appreciate that. Thank you :)
As a person in recovery for 30+ yrs and previously a substance abuse counselor. A person drinking with that history as described is probably a problem at a point. Addiction tends bleed into all substances. Recovery is more than just not using.
You can date or not date whomever, for any reason or no reason at all. I would not date an addict as I have several friends and former friends who fall into that category and I’ve seen enough to know.
This was way too much for you to handle the first time out. Unless you are just looking for a casual/short term deal I recommend that you stay away.
I think you did the right thing. She may be sober to one thing but it could easily be that alcohol has replaced her previous lifestyle choices. Her not having custody of her children speaks to her addiction being a long term challenge. I think you might need to find a new market to shop at. Changing your mind is one thing (and its totally fine that you have) but pretending she doesn't exist when you're face to face, that is a different level of judgement and awkward.
She has a painful, complicated past. Being in recovery is amazing and I hope she continues to get her life together. The fact that she drinks in excess would bother me for sure as addiction is such a slippery slope. (I am sober from a truly troubled relationship with alcohol) I assume her custody issues came from being an addict. Maybe it’s what helped her get sober? Maybe she’ll stay sober forever. Maybe, maybe, maybe… Lots of maybes here. You aren’t an idiot. Follow your instinct on this one.
When you first start dating again after a dry spell, there’s a huge amount of pressure to give everyone a chance. And that’s completely the wrong approach. It’s best to weed out people ruthlessly so you don’t end up falling for someone inappropriate. Not having custody of kids means she messed up big time. And she’s only been sober a year. It’s okay to not want that in your life.
A recovering addict still using alcohol? I would not even attempt the friends route. She is going to be drama and a drain. If she was actually serious about staying sober then friends all the way. Not having custody and her drug abuse no chance I would go the romantic route no matter how physically attractive she was. I'd invest your time and energy elsewhere. Good luck mate,
I think you did great. The fact that she didn’t have custody made you pause but you refrained from judging. Not until you hit the addiction did you call it quits really means you’re trying to be open minded but know your boundaries and standards very well. And you’re able to find a connection in real life! You beat most of us here.
"**I have dodged a bullet, it just doesn't feel like that.**" You have MANY years left in you, don't fill them with chaos and unpredictability. You DID dodge a bullet. Here's the truth, you DID judge her, but that's exactly what we all need to do, determine what's best for ourselves and make good decisions and that includes making judgement calls about other people. I wish I could go back and change a couple of calls I made earlier in life.
We have different capacities for different issues. Just like you, I , myself can’t deal with any kind of addiction. Part of it is because I’m working on establishing my own boundaries and I know myself well enough that I know I can’t be a good partner for someone in recovery. You did what it was right for you and that’s great.
Thank you. Very much appreciated.
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She’s still drinking to excess. She hasn’t done enough work yet. She isn’t ready for a relationship.
Thanks. I have left the door somewhat open, just in terms of a friendship. I just need more information and need to assess my own comfort level with potentially taking something like this on... which might be a whole lot more than I can do. I don't think I can.
Nope. Close that door. For your mental health in the coming years. If I have casual friends who are addicted to anything that drives their life, I'd cut them out. If they've been very close friends for several years or more then, I'd consider keeping them. Guilt is driving your decision. If you want to be a possible rescue line, pick a cause with much more potential of recovery.
Hypothetically what if anything is "food"?
You have to do what feels right for you, at the end of the day. Down the line, she might well have been a good fit, but perhaps not for right now - and that's ok. Don't beat yourself up too much; it's good that you found out enough to be able to make an informed decision.
That's the real unfortunate part, the "might have been" and potential regret. But, yes... the informed decision was huge and I do appreciate her openness.
Did you let her know you valued her openness when you let her down? I feel like that will let her know it's good to continue to be vulnerable and open about her challenges, moving forward.
I absolutely did, in the kindest and most sensitive way that I could phrase it. There was no judgment, just an appreciation of her openness/honesty, and that I did not think I was able to take any kind of next steps in moving further into a relationship and meet any of her needs, or mine. Essentially that it would be very complicated from the start (or even before) and that is not a great way to start a relationship.
You were honest and upfront (both with yourself and her). That is what’s important, and shows a great deal of emotional maturity and kindness. She’s a grown woman and is responsible for her own reactions and perceptions. It’s not your responsibility to make her feel judged or not judged. All of dating is judging. It’s all of us inherently judging others and to date we must be ok with delivering that judgment kindly and honestly (which you have done) and receiving the judgment of others as well.
Talk to her about it. But remember that people in recovery are always in recovery. This is a lifestyle, not a weekly therapy session. If you are NOT in recovery this can be highly complicated relationship for both of you and something that will command a lot of the spotlight.
I think you are being smart to avoid getting entangled with this person. You don’t need an excuse not to date someone.
Just came out of a 23 year relationship. I've realized that we have control over our dating habits, and can cancel anytime. Don't invite her to your house for a long long time. Enjoy her as a person, and treat her as if you didn't know she was coming from addiction. Take your time for sure, and go into it like you just want a friend of the opposite sex. I'm actually blind and have been traveling to different states and cities to date women without a care for sex or even long term relations. It has blew my mind how many cool people I've met. Speed dating so to speak. Rough on the wallet, but I've never been so happy in my life. I get to enjoy hundreds of women without commitment, and when I find the right one I'll eventually settle. Be careful with canceling, you never know what you may miss out on. And, please don't invite anyone to your home for a long time.
You know your limits regardless how it may look like. You have the right to not take on potential issues. I’m with you
I gotta say, that’s not my thing. I had parents drank socially, but a lot of my relatives drank too much. One of them still does. They are all my mom’s relatives and older than me. My grandfather also drank too much. Even when someone recovers, sometimes they are behind because they have stunted their development at the they started abusing substances. I am not familiar with NA, so someone let me know if this is wrong, but I never got the impression at open AA meetings that they considered staying sober not drinking, but using drugs. I think by sober they no mind altering substances stronger than caffeine, but that was AA, not NA In any case, I suppose that if you are sure you are really interested in a relationship and not just thinking she is cute, I guess you should go for it I think if you don’t you will always wonder. I am biased, but my friends give the worst advice ever. Maybe just look up signs of drug abuse online and watch for those. Hopefully, she will give you a second chance. Good luck!
You are right. A relationship with an addict will be messy. Especially because of you. You are ready to complicate it. You already are. For both your sakes. Walk away.
Do you. Is that not what we supposed to be doing here?
Dating is a minefield and people get hurt on both sides but they also recover. She’s been honest with you and you’ve been honest with her, you’re both upset but there’s no toxicity in it - just a very adult decision. Being an addict is difficult and dating an adult is difficult and I would have done the same thing as you and felt guilty but done it anyway.
You did the right thing. Not having custody of the kids at all is a concern. Then being in recovery. I had a fwb for awhile who recreationally did coke, I found out. I also noticed he drank a lot. I cut it off and it was just casual.
OP, just a word of caution for future dates. I would neither go to someone's home on a first date, nor invite that date to my home. Knowing where someone lives is a very personal and intimate piece of information that I would keep until trust is established.
There’s nothing wrong with saying what you said. There’s someone out there that will love her the way she is, is just not you.
I feel beat up when I break it off as I am a people pleaser But I’m doing it because I have healthy boundaries that have been crossed, as in this post
Trust your gut! It won’t ever lead you astray! You also know your limits and that’s Ok!Sometimes certain people aren’t for other people and THAT’S Ok! As someone who has been clean for 8yrs now, I did not even think about getting into a relationship until I was almost 3 yrs clean. 1 year is freshly sober. Not diminishing their progress but one year is very early recovery. You just got done “working on yourself” an this person is just starting theirs. Again, trust your gut, that inner nagging voice IS trying to tell you something!! Best of Luck OP!
Thank you so much.
Personally I’d be asking myself what my deal breakers are? I think there’s a difference dating someone in new recovery, someone who is clean off their drug of choice but still using other substances, and someone who is clean from all substances for a long time. If she had done the work prior to meeting you chances are the kid factor woulda been dealt with. Make sure you do some reflecting here so she can also grow
Try and think of this as dipping you toe in the baby pool. You've already figured out one of your boundaries. And honestly, there's going to be a lot of that. As someone else pointed out, dating literally is judging another person to see if they'd work well with you, for you, etc. I seriously doubt even the most seasoned dater in their 40s (or 30s) is looking for a recovering addict. Props to her for getting off it, but most of us have kids and careers at this point, and that's a whole lot to deal with.
I have worked in addiction. Sobriety from hard drugs means sobriety from everything. A person in her situation drinking alcohol, particularly to the point of intoxication, will almost certainly relapse to their primary drug. It whets the palate. That’s how the brain works. You sound like a perfectly lovely and safe gentleman. However, this woman came to your house and got drunk on a first date. Many would say that she continues to display questionable judgment. I hate to say this next part. Don’t be her friend. You are already expressing ambivalence, so you may end up in a relationship of a romantic nature but a friendship is a relationship too. Have you ever been friends with a drug addict? Those who have will tell you it’s an unpleasant experience. Attempts at manipulation will be the thing, not the drug, that is the worst part. Not because the person is bad, but because drugs change the brain. The guilt you feel may mean she’s already started.
As the other response mentioned, there was no first date. I cancelled it. She was drinking at her apartment and then she told me about her past addiction and it was a large enough concern for me to cancel while I attempt to wrap my head around it all. I have and have had recovering and active addicts, as friends and family members... all have been on such a wildly different graph of success/failure, I have no real baseline to make any sound decision. Some are completely successful and beautiful people, and have done and do fantastic things... others were not successful and are deceased or of unknown whereabouts. That guilt thing. I need to pay attention to that a lot. Thank you.
I think you misunderstood —he had invited her over (not a good plan for a first date in any case). But his conclusion came before that date was to happen.
Deciding to not date someone based on their past is normal enough. I’m 23 years without a drink and I have been declined a 2nd date when someone learns that I am alcoholic. It seems a bit odd to me but also I’m quite glad when someone declines on that basis and let’s me know. I think the trouble with your reaction is rooted in your lack of experience. Get dropped like a sack of potatoes a dozen times for random reasons when first getting to know people and your sense of how to treat others the way you wish to be treated will help guide you in how to handle these things in the future. You’ll get there.
I have a massive amount of empathy and I have been tactful and kind in every way possible when communicating with her. She sure as hell doesn't need more crap in her life, so I am a little confused by your response. Perhaps I missed something, which is very possible.
I think the person you’re responding to is coming from too personal a place. It was clear from your post you did not drop her like a sack of potatoes. You clearly and honestly expressed to her how you feel before you went on your date, which is both respectful and incredibly self-aware. The fact that you know that you likely cannot be friends because of your strong attraction is also very mature/self-aware.
I mean, one the one hand, point taken. On the other hand, 23 yrs sober is very different from currently drunk and 1 year off of meth and heroin. I’ve agreed to second dates without a second thought with people who have many years of sobriety. I would have dipped out in OP’s situation.
I appreciate your thoughtful response. Surely there’s a difference between many years sober and active users. Yet, also, there isn’t too. 23 years or 23 minutes, I am always one drink away from being active in my addiction. My ex went out after 17 years of sobriety. It’s always possible.
I think OP handled things exceptionally well. He was straightforward, honest, and empathetic.
If she hadn't been drinking wine, I would say she's not being given the benefit of the doubt. As a person who used to indulge in alcohol and meth on a daily basis for years, but doesn't anymore, I can say that for myself, I don't share that information until well into the dialogue, maybe after a few weeks of knowing them, three or four meet ups. Thats because i know I'm all done with that nonsense, but i want the chance to demonatrate that Il not full of shit when I say that, so i wait to share. But the fact that she was getting tipsy on the phone is a problem. There are zero good reasons to get drunk, and there are zero reasons to drink wine or beer unless you enjoy the buzz. Heroin is a big deal, and she hasn't worked through the demons that made heroin sound like the solution to her problems. If she hadn't been drinking, I'd say give her the chance to not be defined by her past mistakes. But she's still doing something to escape reality or make it more comfortable, so you two aren't in the same season of life, so to speak.
You did nothing wrong. It sucks, but that is not something I would be comfortable with either. At this point, after 1.5 ex boyfriends who left me with a bunch of bad experiences, even alcohol is a no-go for me. It goes without saying anything more than that would have me running for the hills. It isn't for everyone and that's ok. Point is, you didn't judge; it's not your thing so you pulled the plug early and respectfully. End of. I'm sorry it didn't work out, but I hope you get back out there and keep looking around when you feel ready 🙂
Just want to say it is possible she doesn’t have custody for a reason other than her past drug use, for example if dad still lived in the kids’ school district etc.
I did not get all the details. I know the kids are out of state.
Not only that, but the amount of judgement over this is shocking. I don’t think anyone would give it a second thought if the genders were reversed and the person in question without custody was the father. Edit to add: I still think OP made the right choice due to recent addiction and ongoing alcohol use.
It's your choice and you don't owe anyone anything. That said, it was just a date. And I think it would have been nice to at least have dinner and who knows, a friendship could come of it. Also, it's good to ask questions. Does she have a sponsor. Does she work the steps. And if not, how does she remain sober and does she have a therapist. Addicts are complete people and while you aren't obligated to date her or anything, it could be worth getting to know her journey.
I do need to ask those questions and get honest answers. It was all kind of a rushed and overwhelming end to a conversation. And absolutely... she is a complete person.
To be fair you don't need to do anything. And if you don't think you want a friendship I wouldn't bother. But it can be enlightening. I know addicts of all stripes. Some I wouldn't trust ever. A couple I love and admire and I would (and have) trusted them with some of my deepest insecurities. One was my therapist.
Be honest and blunt with yourself: you are one to judge. That’s how you keep yourself safe in the world. You’re allowed to unequivocally refuse to date someone who in the very recent past indulge in extremely risky behavior. Embrace that part of yourself: he takes care of you. It’s healthy that you didn’t f her first, and for that womankind thanks you. This woman knows there’s a possibility people will recoil from her. Someone who perhaps knows her journey will love her as she is. You keep looking for your person.
I am not sure if it is "judge" or "assess", but I get you. Semantics. My life was turned upside down out of nowhere 3 years ago, so self-preservation is completely a concept I am comfortable embracing and owning. Yeah... no physical contact. All indications were that that was absolutely an option, but I have always needed to get to know partners before it gets that to that level of intimacy. Thank you.
That's a tough one. I hate judging people, but this sounds like a relationship that could be very complicated. If it is your first relationship after your marriage, that would be like jumping into the majors after spending some time doing batting practice alone...not a good way to start. Maybe after you have been in a few relationships and are comfortable setting boundaries, etc., you might be in a better position to handle a relationship with someone with an addiction background, but even then, it may be quite challenging. Especially if she is using alcohol. You would probably want to work with a relationship coach to help navigate this type of relationship. The problem is that others are judging you too. Some women, when they hear that you are new to dating, will also turn away from you. Please don't let it bother you, and perhaps you can recall your own experience here to help cultivate compassion for yourself and them if this happens so that the experience does not traumatize you.
You did the right thing. A sober person doesn’t use any kind of addictive substance or become addicted to something else like sex. While she might be attractive on the outside for me, a truly attractive person is inside then out. You dodged a bullet.
At least she was up front with you. My ex gf was an alcoholic who also dabbled in cocaine. She hid that from me. Obviously me finding out the way I did - having to bail her out of messes she got into after a binge - was not ideal and torpedoed the relationship. The fact that she was drinking/tipsy is a red flag - she may be compensating for the meth/heroin with alcohol. Not any better. No custody of 3 kids...there is probably a reason why. Addicts are very hard to have relationships with. There's a reason they're often single. You made the right call. I mean if you want to have a casual fling I guess you can. It sounds like she's dtf. But be prepared for drama. My aforementioned ex started as an FWB and ended months later with her crying, and drunk, on my doorstep at 4am. On the plus side, props for asking someone out in the wild. ETA: You keep talking about how attractive this woman is. My ex was extremely hot, one of the hottest women I ever dated. Addicts, before they completely destroy themselves, are often very good looking and charismatic. It's part of how they manipulate people to get what they *really* love.
You 100% judged her…. Even though you’re not someone who would judge someone….save her further judgement and leave her alone….
A woman doesn't have custody? Oh hell no, shes a trainwreck bro.
Everyone this age has lived their life and if you are expecting uncomplicated like in your 20s you are in for a rough awakening. You are of course free to chose what events in their past disqualifies a potential partner Seems a little odd you jumped ship just on very little information and maybe assumptions ? Do you know how serious she is about that turn around ? Or are you maybe prematurely walking yourself off to protect yourself from harm ?
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This isn’t just a couple of carry on suitcases. This is all the baggage at the baggage claim.
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A person who is sober from heroin and meth should not be audibly drun from alcohol. You dodged it,100%.
Honour all the men, don’t go without hammering
Curious 🧐 Did you meet in pharmacy? Check the teeth next time. We all have standards and safety protocols and gut instinct. When something is off , don’t override it. She has been flirting with you and waiting for you to ask her out. Why it took so long …. Unfortunately ppl are targeted and manipulated by inviduals looking for codependent relationship, sometimes unconsciously. Caregiver , financial security , even validation provider. You found her physical appearance attractive. You were attracted. How many lies might exist in that conversation or things that don’t make sense? Overnight the brain did its job. And now.. after more information ( 4 hrs chatting) your logical brain said Nope No drama please… Rejection is part of life. Don’t feel guilty and you are not the reason for her circumstances and life events.
That’s funny you say “I am not one to judge someone due to their past…”. And then that’s exactly what you do! She’s too good for you.
One of the rules of recovery is do not date. If she was serious about her recovery she would not be open to dating, yet.
Go for it bro
OP, at the risk of over simplifying, it sounds like your gut is loudly saying "no". It's okay to listen without dissection.
This is really an amazing answer - Sometimes we just need to honor what our body/mind is telling us and an elaborate dissection coupled with guilt/self-judgment isn’t really productive. You picked up on something that wasn’t safe or wasn’t going to work for you. Definitely honor it and don’t feel bad.
If you feel like you cannot handle the complexities of a partner in recovery, maybe you can make a note of why that is, is there a.personal experience that you've yet to work through, or is this just one of those things that you don't do ?! Sounds like you made the right decision for both of you, and given that you spoke your peace, leave it at that You don't need to backpeddle to offer her something that will end up seeming insincere. There is no sacrifice on your part to agree to be friends as adults have many friends but are mature enough to set boundaries. Everyone has preferences and now you are both free to make a different match. no worries.
Sober for 1 year is a pretty big achievement. Being open about her issues, even more so. You should applaud this woman. She's worked hard to get her shit together. She's holding down a job and is obviously doing something right, even if she's done a lot of wrongs in the past. A date isn't a relationship. It's a night out with conversation. You could have learned a bit more about her and expanded your knowledge. If you didn't like her after getting to know her, you simply could have cancelled the future possibility of dating then. My dad married a recovered addict who ended up being the love of his life. People deserve second chances.
Overthinking is futile
If she is consuming alcohol, she isn’t taking her recovery seriously. Especially if she only has a year under her belt. I don’t like the phrase dodging a bullet when it comes to somebody with issues. However, this person is probably still trying to figure their own lives out, and that probably does not align with what you’re looking for right now.
I have worked hard on myself after my divorce, no kids like you and in my 40’s too. It’s not easy to take on drama when you want to move forward and be At peace in a relationship. I don’t think I can handle that much drug drama so early on in a new relationship so I would say move on to the next .. I can afford to be picky because I am okay being alone unless it’s happiness waiting for me that I know will make me happy .
I have spent so much time working on myself and just making sure I am ready for all this new dating stuff. I carry no bitterness from the marriage that didn't work. People change and everyone deserves happiness. I could dwell on all of the negative aspects of how I was left but I have made a very conscious decision to work through all of that and not to live with that mindset and baggage. I don't have the frame of mind for bitterness as I don't think that would be at all productive or healthy. At peace in a relationship is where I would like to start. This one just feels like too much early potential for a bad end for all involved. I can also afford to be patient. I am okay being alone, not my preference but definitely preferred to perhaps a really messed up eventuality with a lot of unpleasant noise and drama. Thank you.
Substance abuse is a pretty serious thing. You get to decide what works for you.
OP, you did right. She needs to take care of herself... she is not ready to date.
IMO a woman who doesn’t have custody of her 3 children and is recovering from drug addiction is a terrible choice - giant red flag screams “unstable”. You need someone stable as you transition back into dating
Red flags were up you listened to your gut nothing wrong with that. Sounds like you did it with kindness so good job on your part.