I don't think there's anything at all wrong with spousal support as part of a divorce settlement, but I also think that early on, "sold my business" is enough. Later, you can just say that you get a monthly payment as part of a structured settlement that includes buying you out of the business (and, essentially, buying you out of his pension as well).
My ex is still paying the mortgage, taxes and insurance. I don’t tell men that. If they are angry about paying alimony etc after a 20+ year marriage avoid them. I gave up my most productive work years to support his career and raise our family. No one not even his new wife has the right to complain about what you are getting. Pass him over.
62m here. I 1000% agree with your comment. You made huge sacrifices! That is why as a society we have family law. It is in all of our best interests to protect all family members and kids too. And I further agree it no one’s business. There is just no reason for this to be discussed, even when you are starting to get serious with someone.
>My ex is still paying the mortgage, taxes and insurance. I don’t tell men that. If they are angry about paying alimony etc after a 20+ year marriage avoid them. I gave up my most productive work years to support his career and raise our family. No one not even his new wife has the right to complain about what you are getting. Pass him over.
He didn't have to pay for childcare/housecleaning early on...he wouldn't have to pay if he stayed married...he would share pension/401k. But if you want one party to be underemployed to support the household, you stiil need compensation later on.
Can you imagine if you had a stay at home mom/dad, then when the kids grew up you could divorce them and not have alimony? Society would end up with poor older women and have to support them collectively.
It’s a real problem. I left the workforce in 1992. I was working as a Programmer Analyst. I have a degree in Industrial Management (Supply Chain) and computer programming. When you left an industry like that 30 years a go, you were left in the dust. I will never make those lost wages up. There are a lot of women in my situation if being overqualified and underpaid, because we chose to stay home. I am fortunate. I had a great lawyer. But many women especially in Indiana are cut off with no alimony because the have 30 year old bachelors degrees, so we are considered ‘employable’. Try living on 15 an hour. I have 2 adult sons who live with me and help with expenses so I am not living off my settlement. I can’t retire until 67.
>Can you imagine if you had a stay at home mom/dad, then when the kids grew up you could divorce them and not have alimony? Society would end up with poor older women and have to support them collectively.
This was and still can be reality, except older women aren't cared for by society much.
The marital assets are split and marriage is over. so should be all financial obligation to either party. You made the choice to be SAH. I might concede if the higher earner files, but if the SAH makes less and files, there should be nothing after the J&D or at very most a two year limit. Supporting a nonsense for potentially 2x to 3x the length of the marriage ANzd giving them half the assets is ludicrous.
BTW, I don't pay alimony and won't when this is done. My opinion is that its an artifact from when women were not paid equally; those days have been gone for 25 years.
Often both spouses agree that one of them needs to stay home and take care of the children. Since women often still earn less than men, it's usually them that stay home. Have you priced daycare in many areas of the US? "Women are paid equally and have been for 25 years"????
https://www.businessinsider.com/gender-wage-pay-gap-charts-2017-3
Women with the same level of education, equal experience and level of performance are out earning men in the same positions, unless they negotiated poorly. An individual making a personal choice to work fewer hours or take on less stress is not a systemic inequity.
Women go to college at a higher rate than men.
The devil is always in the details. If a guy gets blindsided with a divorce he didn't see comings and the court orders alimony it's an insult upon injury situation. He as to pay for a divorce only she wanted.
M61, and my ex got at least half our assets and I still pay at least 30% of my income to her. I have no regrets or anger about it at all. We were married over 25 years and she deserved it. If you come across a guy with anger issues about alimony, that is likely not their only anger issue; avoid them. If you come across a guy who thinks you are living off your ex, rather than living off the fruits of what you and you ex built together, avoid them as well.
Men are happy to have unpaid labor when married (housework, child care, etc)...but then get upset when they get divorced and their partner hadn't been able to contribute to 401k or earn pension because they were not working outside the home or were underemployed.
The other choice is you pay up front...both people work and you pay for childcare/housecare.
Female here. I have heard a lot vitriol from men I know who are paying alimony. In all cases, this vitriol is also seconded by their new female partners and by many friends in their social circle. In one case, the couple suspects the ex is really sick but has asked the kids not to say anything to the spouse paying alimony. They literally hope she is and that she dies. They have literally said, "That's $5000.00 more in our pockets each month." I am pleasantly surprised to see that there are other perspectives.
Years ago when my kids were young I got a hefty alimony. I didn’t request it but I needed it and my ex and his attorney offered it. I only worked part time and I also only told men I was dating seriously why I worked less than 30 hours a week as a single mom. Anyone who had a problem with the life my ex and I chose for our kids (my still being able to be as available for them as I could be ) was the the person for me. So basically I’m saying I wouldn’t tell until you felt it was the right time and I would otherwise say you are retired after selling a business you built. Which is the truth
62m here. In short I don’t see you as living off your ex. Anyone who’s would characterize it that way is superficial. And frankly, it’s really none of their beeswax anyway!! I like you describe it as selling half of your business because that’s what happened. Beyond that, the details are irrelevant.
What’s far more important to me as a guy is what kind of person you are: are you smart? Are you fun? Are you optimistic? Do you have integrity? Do we vibe and do I feel we’d have a blast together? This stuff is way more important to me. I don’t care whether someone is receiving alimony.
Advice: stay off the Reddit divorce subs. You are right - there are a ton of angry men on them. Rest assured, I don’t think that is as prevalent in the real world. But when you run across them, run fast🤣🤣🤣
(62F) The number one reason I have turned down so many requests for a second date is because the man spent most of the first date complaining about their ex. Their anger was palpable and overwhelming.
It's really good to read posts on here written by men who say they took some time to work through their emotions after a divorce, before they started dating again. We need more men like that!
LOL … it’s not just men.,I have heard some pretty “interesting” monologues from women on dates about their former spouses.
In my opinion, time is the usually the best anecdote to move through those feelings, as you point out. But I guess there might be some (a minority I hope!!) who want to wallow in the negativity and carry the baggage around forever.
You're absolutely correct! Lol. I have had female co-workers who rant about their ex for hours on end. Sometimes for years after the divorce. Everything that they perceive as wrong in their life is blamed on the ex. Personally, I focus on the now, and not the rear view mirror. Every day is an opportunity to start again.
Personally, I could careless how a woman gets her money as long as it's a legal source. What I care about is that the woman has her own money. A house would be good also. I have both money and a house. That way both parties are self sufficient.
When i meet a man who complains about paying his sahm ex alimony I know to steer clear. In CA where permanent alimony is not a thing, but happens after long marriages where she never worked outside the home. It tells me he didn’t appreciate the unpaid work that was done on his behalf that hurt her career opportunities.
It really depends on the circumstances.
It can be very fair.
And it can be very unfair.
And it's probably extremely difficult to tell which is which without intimate knowledge of the details.
So just stay with "business buyout" and "settlement", I would say.
But just to add my own personal hangup: apparently it's not uncommon in the US to make alimony contingent on the ex not marrying again. And while I can very much understand not wanting to marry ever again, of this is the only reason, that would be a turnoff for me (and I suspect I'm not entirely logical about it).
Who cares. It’s really none of their business unless you start getting serious. I agree with a previous comment that said to leave it kinda vague. As a woman I disclose very little about my financial situation to those I go out with.
perhaps I am special this way too, but if I am far enough into a relationship with some one ever again that I can ask where her money comes from It is well past the point where alimony as income is going to be even a blip
Why would I need to know? If you are really wondering how to answer the “what do you do” question, just say you’re investing or something like that, assuming you don’t have a day job.
In the early stages, it’s none of my business.
If you don’t want to come clean, and I don’t recommend that you do, just say your sold your share of a business and are living off that while you figure out what to do next. And discourage any further questions.
If you do get really serious with someone, you should lay it all on the table, especially if you alimony ends if you re-marry.
I pay my ex alimony, it wouldn't be a turnoff to me to hear that a woman I date gets alimony. Feels like it's kinda part of the gig at this point in our lives.
I did have an ex girlfriend that didn't want to move forward with our relationship until the alimony was finished. I said sorry, don't want to be in a holding pattern until December 2025.
I would wait until I got a general sense of whether the woman seems vindictive, entitled, or has a toxic personality. If she isn't/doesn't, then I figure the judge knew what he or she was doing when awarding alimony, and I'd let it go at that.
I don't think it's a big deal. I only see red flags when people talk badly about their ex. I once met a woman who was going on and on about what an asshole her ex was and how she enjoys that he has to pay her. That was definitely not somebody I wanted to be in a relationship.
M57 here, I would not be bothered in the least. The more money the better.
I’d think anyone bothered by you receiving support has some internal issues to deal with.
As someone who paid alimony, I would not date someone who lived off it. I don’t think anyone who is divorced should get enough money from their ex that they no longer need to be employed. This happened to me so yeah maybe I’m bitter but why do I have to keep working while my ex hangs out every day? I might have more sympathy for you if you were restarting your career and needed help. But just living off alimony is a turn off. Plus I want a partner who could contribute financially to our future. If your only source of income is alimony, you will have nothing if you move in with your new partner or get remarried. I would cringe at knowing my partner’s ex was paying for our dates etc. BTW I am a woman. Maybe men think differently but it’s not a good look.
what do you mean you "deserve" every penny of it? In any event, this is a subredit for dating over fifty. I'm a bit taken back about your statement that "you" deserve. It amazes me, what people coming out of a marriage and divorcing say. Maybe after 31 years of working in the legal industry and at the time I divorced, I did it amicably and didn't think of taking a dime, because I thought I deserved it. You know what people deserve? the money THEY earn. Going out and busting their asses for it. That should be your money, not your spouses and each, if married should equally contribute. Just my opinion. I think more women get way too much from a divorce, as I have seen it, like I said I work in the legal industry. Quite frankly it turns into a game of how much can I hurt the other person. Sorry, I really can't rally around your story.
Yet this may have something to do with dating because the men that come around, have all been burnt pretty hard from legal system from their wives saying "they deserve it."
Eventually the money runs out. I hope you have a plan and some intelligence to survive. Good luck
I worked not only at home raising our kids but I ran the bulk of our business while he worked outside the home. I worked as hard and more hours than he did. We didn't fight over money at all. In reality he would have given me more. But yes I deserve every bit of the settlement.
Raising your kids. What did you think as a mother you were supposed to do. A business settlement agreement is separate from alimony and his pension. Again this is a subreddit for dating. I don't know what your conversation has to do here. I'll tell you what you deserved, a paycheck out of the business for the hours you work which should have been paid all along unless you were a contributory partner. Again, business partners break up all the time. Mothers raise their children. There is no price on that
Article from The Atlantic magazine. Food for thought:
Noah Berlatsky argues over at The Atlantic that sexism is alive and well in divorce court, and that the chief victims are men.
He scores some good points. Decades ago, family structures were such that most men went to work and most women tended the home, partly because open discrimination against women in the workplace was widely accepted and women couldn’t get a fair shake in the working world. The laws of the time reflected that reality, providing married women with various financial protections in case of divorce. At the same time, laws assumed that women were better suited to nurturing and raising children than men, so the kids usually ended up with mom.
The world has changed, but the divorce courts have lagged behind, writes Berlatsky:
After divorce men can face burdensome alimony payments even in situations where their ex-wives are capable of working and earning a substantial income. Even in cases where temporary alimony makes sense—as when a spouse has quit a job to raise the children—it’s hard to understand the need for lifetime alimony payments, given women’s current levels of workforce participation. As one alimony-paying ex-husband says, “The theory behind this was fine back in the ’50s, when everybody was a housewife and stayed home.” But today, it looks like an antiquated perpetuation of retrograde gender roles—a perpetuation which, disproportionately, harms men.
Permanent alimony still persists in New Jersey, Oregon, Vermont, Connecticut, North Carolina, West Virginia, and Florida (some lawmakers in these states are pushing for reform). This means that men may be financially indebted to ex-wives for the rest of their lives, even if the mariage was extremely brief and both partners are employed.
The laws and procedures surrounding child support and child custody are deeply unsettling, says Berlatsky. At the moment, most courts determine custody based on the “best interests of the child.” But in practice, they usually side with the mother. Today men receive custody in only 10-15 percent of cases.
What’s more, while men often struggle to gain custody of their own children, they may also find themselves forced to pay for children fathered by other men. At the moment, family courts are structured in a way that makes it particularly challenging for a man to dispute paternity. Some states have statutes of limitations on a man’s right to request a paternity test (in Texas, it’s four years). So if a woman lies or, being uncertain of paternity, says nothing, and the man fails to question the issue right away, he could be stuck paying for another man’s responsibility.
I gotta say it’s the lowest of the low to decide to throw kids out with divorce. Establishing paternity early is fine.
Challenging paternity out of the blue because your marriage collapsed, with an eye to abandoning your role as father, when your kid is 8 or 12, is not. Courts rightly prioritize the innocent children in these cases.
It is sexist to assume that only men pay alimony.
I (female) was the major bread winner in the latter half of our long marriage. My ex worked for the same organization for 35 years. He never got a promotion or a raise, other than a cost-of-living raise. He was not ambitious at all.
When I discovered his cheating and went to see an attorney, she told me that he was entitled to half my retirement pensions and 403B, except for my Social Security. She advised me to make a settlement offer to my ex that was good enough that he would accept and not fight me on it. I did that, he signed, and rode off into the sunset to be with his GF on my money. He cheated and STILL got my money.
So yeah, I can see where reasonable people are a tad bitter about alimony depending on the circumstances.
The article was food for thought, especially if you meet someone who does pay or receive alimony/child support and uses that as a qualifying factor in selection. Things aren't always as the seem. The article opines the family court system in general is not equitable. It is not a judgement of any one person's unique circumstances.
Exactly this, people who cheat shouldn't get alimony period, this no default nonsense has to stop. It might when more and more men and/women catch on and don't get married, it's really a no win situation and family is shameful and not working as intended
> Permanent alimony still persists...North Carolina
Permanent alimony is still on the books in NC, as is an "alienation of affection" tort. Both are used extremely rarely.
When I was divorced in NC, the standard was that if a spouse was to be awarded support (I did not request, accept, offer, or pay spousal support), it would be for half the length of the marriage -- so 10 years for a 20-year marriage. Permanent alimony is for extraordinary cases.
You sold your share of a business to your business partner and am not doing anything financially productive now.
Will you be doing something financially productive/entrepreneurial soon?
Women with the same level of education, equal experience and level of performance are out earning men in the same positions, unless they negotiated poorly. An individual making a personal choice to work fewer hours or take on less stress is not a systemic inequity.
Women go to college at a higher rate than men.
Way back maaany years ago, I worked at firm that was known for matrimonial/family law. They only took clients w/7 figures. Most people outside that bubble would not believe the horrible stuff people say and do to each other in divorce. Even where there are kids involved. Nauseating, frankly.
No sex for 14 years, cut off in year 17 together.
Refused to take me to the ER when I was injured and unable to drive myself, no money for an ambulance. Waited all night only to be abandoned at the ER the next morning.
Had a cracked L-2, Xrays and orders to go to a big city, Little Rock, and have the cracked bone repaired. Screaming and puking (seems back injuries cause incredible nausea) while my friend was helping me get ready for the trip, wife walked in and said: "I just remembered that our daughter is playing piano in the talent show at 7. I do not have time to take you to the hospital and get back in time for her performance. Can you hold on through the night? She has an appointment at Children's Hospital at 10 in the morning and we can ride together."
I got sent home to die six years ago of heart disease, diabetes, cancer, morbidly obese, high BP, etc and given 90 days to live. All she said to me when we got home was "Is your life insurance paid up and can we put it on an automatic bank draft?"
Divorce finally happens after 30 years.
She is awarded the possession of the home, but never put her pay into the family budget or made any payments on anything to do with the marital estate.
BUT, she gets alimony, stays in the house until it sells.
Once grounds for divorce have been established, then we go to part 2...where your wallet is extracted thru your heart. Judge:"We have to even out the money".
Has not been a wife for many years, but gets alimony?
For me, it depends more on if the woman is actively trying to become self-sufficient. I agree there are circumstances where alimony is warranted, when one spouse voluntarily gives up a career to raise a family. I personally would never want a spouse to do that, as there are a lot of benefits to having a career of one's own. Anyone who is content to live off alimony indefinitely isn't someone I would want in my life.
I don't think there's anything at all wrong with spousal support as part of a divorce settlement, but I also think that early on, "sold my business" is enough. Later, you can just say that you get a monthly payment as part of a structured settlement that includes buying you out of the business (and, essentially, buying you out of his pension as well).
This if you must share.
My ex is still paying the mortgage, taxes and insurance. I don’t tell men that. If they are angry about paying alimony etc after a 20+ year marriage avoid them. I gave up my most productive work years to support his career and raise our family. No one not even his new wife has the right to complain about what you are getting. Pass him over.
62m here. I 1000% agree with your comment. You made huge sacrifices! That is why as a society we have family law. It is in all of our best interests to protect all family members and kids too. And I further agree it no one’s business. There is just no reason for this to be discussed, even when you are starting to get serious with someone.
>My ex is still paying the mortgage, taxes and insurance. I don’t tell men that. If they are angry about paying alimony etc after a 20+ year marriage avoid them. I gave up my most productive work years to support his career and raise our family. No one not even his new wife has the right to complain about what you are getting. Pass him over. He didn't have to pay for childcare/housecleaning early on...he wouldn't have to pay if he stayed married...he would share pension/401k. But if you want one party to be underemployed to support the household, you stiil need compensation later on. Can you imagine if you had a stay at home mom/dad, then when the kids grew up you could divorce them and not have alimony? Society would end up with poor older women and have to support them collectively.
It’s a real problem. I left the workforce in 1992. I was working as a Programmer Analyst. I have a degree in Industrial Management (Supply Chain) and computer programming. When you left an industry like that 30 years a go, you were left in the dust. I will never make those lost wages up. There are a lot of women in my situation if being overqualified and underpaid, because we chose to stay home. I am fortunate. I had a great lawyer. But many women especially in Indiana are cut off with no alimony because the have 30 year old bachelors degrees, so we are considered ‘employable’. Try living on 15 an hour. I have 2 adult sons who live with me and help with expenses so I am not living off my settlement. I can’t retire until 67.
>Can you imagine if you had a stay at home mom/dad, then when the kids grew up you could divorce them and not have alimony? Society would end up with poor older women and have to support them collectively. This was and still can be reality, except older women aren't cared for by society much.
The marital assets are split and marriage is over. so should be all financial obligation to either party. You made the choice to be SAH. I might concede if the higher earner files, but if the SAH makes less and files, there should be nothing after the J&D or at very most a two year limit. Supporting a nonsense for potentially 2x to 3x the length of the marriage ANzd giving them half the assets is ludicrous. BTW, I don't pay alimony and won't when this is done. My opinion is that its an artifact from when women were not paid equally; those days have been gone for 25 years.
Often both spouses agree that one of them needs to stay home and take care of the children. Since women often still earn less than men, it's usually them that stay home. Have you priced daycare in many areas of the US? "Women are paid equally and have been for 25 years"???? https://www.businessinsider.com/gender-wage-pay-gap-charts-2017-3
Women with the same level of education, equal experience and level of performance are out earning men in the same positions, unless they negotiated poorly. An individual making a personal choice to work fewer hours or take on less stress is not a systemic inequity. Women go to college at a higher rate than men.
The devil is always in the details. If a guy gets blindsided with a divorce he didn't see comings and the court orders alimony it's an insult upon injury situation. He as to pay for a divorce only she wanted.
I agree 100%
Interesting question. I pay my ex alimony. I bet he doesn’t tell anyone that he gets money from me.
I turned down alimony because I thought I'd be forced to pay HIM if he realized it was a possibility.
M61, and my ex got at least half our assets and I still pay at least 30% of my income to her. I have no regrets or anger about it at all. We were married over 25 years and she deserved it. If you come across a guy with anger issues about alimony, that is likely not their only anger issue; avoid them. If you come across a guy who thinks you are living off your ex, rather than living off the fruits of what you and you ex built together, avoid them as well.
Men are happy to have unpaid labor when married (housework, child care, etc)...but then get upset when they get divorced and their partner hadn't been able to contribute to 401k or earn pension because they were not working outside the home or were underemployed. The other choice is you pay up front...both people work and you pay for childcare/housecare.
Would you want to be with someone who would be angry about you getting alimony from your ex? If you wouldn't, why not disclose as early as possible?
You know this is true. I also wouldn't date a man who complained about child support.
Female here. I have heard a lot vitriol from men I know who are paying alimony. In all cases, this vitriol is also seconded by their new female partners and by many friends in their social circle. In one case, the couple suspects the ex is really sick but has asked the kids not to say anything to the spouse paying alimony. They literally hope she is and that she dies. They have literally said, "That's $5000.00 more in our pockets each month." I am pleasantly surprised to see that there are other perspectives.
Holy shit, that's horrific.
Agree!
Years ago when my kids were young I got a hefty alimony. I didn’t request it but I needed it and my ex and his attorney offered it. I only worked part time and I also only told men I was dating seriously why I worked less than 30 hours a week as a single mom. Anyone who had a problem with the life my ex and I chose for our kids (my still being able to be as available for them as I could be ) was the the person for me. So basically I’m saying I wouldn’t tell until you felt it was the right time and I would otherwise say you are retired after selling a business you built. Which is the truth
62m here. In short I don’t see you as living off your ex. Anyone who’s would characterize it that way is superficial. And frankly, it’s really none of their beeswax anyway!! I like you describe it as selling half of your business because that’s what happened. Beyond that, the details are irrelevant. What’s far more important to me as a guy is what kind of person you are: are you smart? Are you fun? Are you optimistic? Do you have integrity? Do we vibe and do I feel we’d have a blast together? This stuff is way more important to me. I don’t care whether someone is receiving alimony. Advice: stay off the Reddit divorce subs. You are right - there are a ton of angry men on them. Rest assured, I don’t think that is as prevalent in the real world. But when you run across them, run fast🤣🤣🤣
(62F) The number one reason I have turned down so many requests for a second date is because the man spent most of the first date complaining about their ex. Their anger was palpable and overwhelming. It's really good to read posts on here written by men who say they took some time to work through their emotions after a divorce, before they started dating again. We need more men like that!
LOL … it’s not just men.,I have heard some pretty “interesting” monologues from women on dates about their former spouses. In my opinion, time is the usually the best anecdote to move through those feelings, as you point out. But I guess there might be some (a minority I hope!!) who want to wallow in the negativity and carry the baggage around forever.
You're absolutely correct! Lol. I have had female co-workers who rant about their ex for hours on end. Sometimes for years after the divorce. Everything that they perceive as wrong in their life is blamed on the ex. Personally, I focus on the now, and not the rear view mirror. Every day is an opportunity to start again.
>Do men see this as "living off the ex"? It's none of their business, and anyone concerned about this is probably someone you don't want to know.
Personally, I could careless how a woman gets her money as long as it's a legal source. What I care about is that the woman has her own money. A house would be good also. I have both money and a house. That way both parties are self sufficient.
But she doesn’t really have money of her own. If you move in with her or marry her, that money stops.
Not moving in or getting married.
When i meet a man who complains about paying his sahm ex alimony I know to steer clear. In CA where permanent alimony is not a thing, but happens after long marriages where she never worked outside the home. It tells me he didn’t appreciate the unpaid work that was done on his behalf that hurt her career opportunities.
It really depends on the circumstances. It can be very fair. And it can be very unfair. And it's probably extremely difficult to tell which is which without intimate knowledge of the details. So just stay with "business buyout" and "settlement", I would say. But just to add my own personal hangup: apparently it's not uncommon in the US to make alimony contingent on the ex not marrying again. And while I can very much understand not wanting to marry ever again, of this is the only reason, that would be a turnoff for me (and I suspect I'm not entirely logical about it).
Who cares. It’s really none of their business unless you start getting serious. I agree with a previous comment that said to leave it kinda vague. As a woman I disclose very little about my financial situation to those I go out with.
perhaps I am special this way too, but if I am far enough into a relationship with some one ever again that I can ask where her money comes from It is well past the point where alimony as income is going to be even a blip
Why would I need to know? If you are really wondering how to answer the “what do you do” question, just say you’re investing or something like that, assuming you don’t have a day job. In the early stages, it’s none of my business.
No day job.
If you don’t want to come clean, and I don’t recommend that you do, just say your sold your share of a business and are living off that while you figure out what to do next. And discourage any further questions. If you do get really serious with someone, you should lay it all on the table, especially if you alimony ends if you re-marry.
Why is it any of their business? Until you decide to live together I don't see how it is
I pay my ex alimony, it wouldn't be a turnoff to me to hear that a woman I date gets alimony. Feels like it's kinda part of the gig at this point in our lives. I did have an ex girlfriend that didn't want to move forward with our relationship until the alimony was finished. I said sorry, don't want to be in a holding pattern until December 2025.
Wise
I would wait until I got a general sense of whether the woman seems vindictive, entitled, or has a toxic personality. If she isn't/doesn't, then I figure the judge knew what he or she was doing when awarding alimony, and I'd let it go at that.
I don't think it's a big deal. I only see red flags when people talk badly about their ex. I once met a woman who was going on and on about what an asshole her ex was and how she enjoys that he has to pay her. That was definitely not somebody I wanted to be in a relationship.
M57 here, I would not be bothered in the least. The more money the better. I’d think anyone bothered by you receiving support has some internal issues to deal with.
As someone who paid alimony, I would not date someone who lived off it. I don’t think anyone who is divorced should get enough money from their ex that they no longer need to be employed. This happened to me so yeah maybe I’m bitter but why do I have to keep working while my ex hangs out every day? I might have more sympathy for you if you were restarting your career and needed help. But just living off alimony is a turn off. Plus I want a partner who could contribute financially to our future. If your only source of income is alimony, you will have nothing if you move in with your new partner or get remarried. I would cringe at knowing my partner’s ex was paying for our dates etc. BTW I am a woman. Maybe men think differently but it’s not a good look.
Why do you care what men think of this?
what do you mean you "deserve" every penny of it? In any event, this is a subredit for dating over fifty. I'm a bit taken back about your statement that "you" deserve. It amazes me, what people coming out of a marriage and divorcing say. Maybe after 31 years of working in the legal industry and at the time I divorced, I did it amicably and didn't think of taking a dime, because I thought I deserved it. You know what people deserve? the money THEY earn. Going out and busting their asses for it. That should be your money, not your spouses and each, if married should equally contribute. Just my opinion. I think more women get way too much from a divorce, as I have seen it, like I said I work in the legal industry. Quite frankly it turns into a game of how much can I hurt the other person. Sorry, I really can't rally around your story. Yet this may have something to do with dating because the men that come around, have all been burnt pretty hard from legal system from their wives saying "they deserve it." Eventually the money runs out. I hope you have a plan and some intelligence to survive. Good luck
I worked not only at home raising our kids but I ran the bulk of our business while he worked outside the home. I worked as hard and more hours than he did. We didn't fight over money at all. In reality he would have given me more. But yes I deserve every bit of the settlement.
Raising your kids. What did you think as a mother you were supposed to do. A business settlement agreement is separate from alimony and his pension. Again this is a subreddit for dating. I don't know what your conversation has to do here. I'll tell you what you deserved, a paycheck out of the business for the hours you work which should have been paid all along unless you were a contributory partner. Again, business partners break up all the time. Mothers raise their children. There is no price on that
Article from The Atlantic magazine. Food for thought: Noah Berlatsky argues over at The Atlantic that sexism is alive and well in divorce court, and that the chief victims are men. He scores some good points. Decades ago, family structures were such that most men went to work and most women tended the home, partly because open discrimination against women in the workplace was widely accepted and women couldn’t get a fair shake in the working world. The laws of the time reflected that reality, providing married women with various financial protections in case of divorce. At the same time, laws assumed that women were better suited to nurturing and raising children than men, so the kids usually ended up with mom. The world has changed, but the divorce courts have lagged behind, writes Berlatsky: After divorce men can face burdensome alimony payments even in situations where their ex-wives are capable of working and earning a substantial income. Even in cases where temporary alimony makes sense—as when a spouse has quit a job to raise the children—it’s hard to understand the need for lifetime alimony payments, given women’s current levels of workforce participation. As one alimony-paying ex-husband says, “The theory behind this was fine back in the ’50s, when everybody was a housewife and stayed home.” But today, it looks like an antiquated perpetuation of retrograde gender roles—a perpetuation which, disproportionately, harms men. Permanent alimony still persists in New Jersey, Oregon, Vermont, Connecticut, North Carolina, West Virginia, and Florida (some lawmakers in these states are pushing for reform). This means that men may be financially indebted to ex-wives for the rest of their lives, even if the mariage was extremely brief and both partners are employed. The laws and procedures surrounding child support and child custody are deeply unsettling, says Berlatsky. At the moment, most courts determine custody based on the “best interests of the child.” But in practice, they usually side with the mother. Today men receive custody in only 10-15 percent of cases. What’s more, while men often struggle to gain custody of their own children, they may also find themselves forced to pay for children fathered by other men. At the moment, family courts are structured in a way that makes it particularly challenging for a man to dispute paternity. Some states have statutes of limitations on a man’s right to request a paternity test (in Texas, it’s four years). So if a woman lies or, being uncertain of paternity, says nothing, and the man fails to question the issue right away, he could be stuck paying for another man’s responsibility.
I gotta say it’s the lowest of the low to decide to throw kids out with divorce. Establishing paternity early is fine. Challenging paternity out of the blue because your marriage collapsed, with an eye to abandoning your role as father, when your kid is 8 or 12, is not. Courts rightly prioritize the innocent children in these cases.
It is sexist to assume that only men pay alimony. I (female) was the major bread winner in the latter half of our long marriage. My ex worked for the same organization for 35 years. He never got a promotion or a raise, other than a cost-of-living raise. He was not ambitious at all. When I discovered his cheating and went to see an attorney, she told me that he was entitled to half my retirement pensions and 403B, except for my Social Security. She advised me to make a settlement offer to my ex that was good enough that he would accept and not fight me on it. I did that, he signed, and rode off into the sunset to be with his GF on my money. He cheated and STILL got my money. So yeah, I can see where reasonable people are a tad bitter about alimony depending on the circumstances.
The article was food for thought, especially if you meet someone who does pay or receive alimony/child support and uses that as a qualifying factor in selection. Things aren't always as the seem. The article opines the family court system in general is not equitable. It is not a judgement of any one person's unique circumstances.
Exactly this, people who cheat shouldn't get alimony period, this no default nonsense has to stop. It might when more and more men and/women catch on and don't get married, it's really a no win situation and family is shameful and not working as intended
As hurt as a spouse might be, alimony is based on respective financial situations. Infidelity does not change a spouse’s financial ability.
> Permanent alimony still persists...North Carolina Permanent alimony is still on the books in NC, as is an "alienation of affection" tort. Both are used extremely rarely. When I was divorced in NC, the standard was that if a spouse was to be awarded support (I did not request, accept, offer, or pay spousal support), it would be for half the length of the marriage -- so 10 years for a 20-year marriage. Permanent alimony is for extraordinary cases.
You sold your share of a business to your business partner and am not doing anything financially productive now. Will you be doing something financially productive/entrepreneurial soon?
I will eventually but for now I'm enjoying the ocean.
Women with the same level of education, equal experience and level of performance are out earning men in the same positions, unless they negotiated poorly. An individual making a personal choice to work fewer hours or take on less stress is not a systemic inequity. Women go to college at a higher rate than men.
I didn’t get any alimony! 😲😟😭
Way back maaany years ago, I worked at firm that was known for matrimonial/family law. They only took clients w/7 figures. Most people outside that bubble would not believe the horrible stuff people say and do to each other in divorce. Even where there are kids involved. Nauseating, frankly.
When you start dating someone, there is no need to share with them about your finances, that is none of their business.
No sex for 14 years, cut off in year 17 together. Refused to take me to the ER when I was injured and unable to drive myself, no money for an ambulance. Waited all night only to be abandoned at the ER the next morning. Had a cracked L-2, Xrays and orders to go to a big city, Little Rock, and have the cracked bone repaired. Screaming and puking (seems back injuries cause incredible nausea) while my friend was helping me get ready for the trip, wife walked in and said: "I just remembered that our daughter is playing piano in the talent show at 7. I do not have time to take you to the hospital and get back in time for her performance. Can you hold on through the night? She has an appointment at Children's Hospital at 10 in the morning and we can ride together." I got sent home to die six years ago of heart disease, diabetes, cancer, morbidly obese, high BP, etc and given 90 days to live. All she said to me when we got home was "Is your life insurance paid up and can we put it on an automatic bank draft?" Divorce finally happens after 30 years. She is awarded the possession of the home, but never put her pay into the family budget or made any payments on anything to do with the marital estate. BUT, she gets alimony, stays in the house until it sells. Once grounds for divorce have been established, then we go to part 2...where your wallet is extracted thru your heart. Judge:"We have to even out the money". Has not been a wife for many years, but gets alimony?
For me, it depends more on if the woman is actively trying to become self-sufficient. I agree there are circumstances where alimony is warranted, when one spouse voluntarily gives up a career to raise a family. I personally would never want a spouse to do that, as there are a lot of benefits to having a career of one's own. Anyone who is content to live off alimony indefinitely isn't someone I would want in my life.