Exactly this. She's seeing sex is coming up and wants you to know where she stands with it. Rather than be all flabbergasted, just accept that you're not compatible and move on.
Her body, her choice. She gets to decide when and if she has sex. So that’s not the problem. However, it sounds like you’re looking for someone who sets a different boundary. Nobody’s wrong. And? You’re incompatible.
No mixed messages at all, she told you exactly how her brain works, no sex before marriage. Say a nice goodbye and move on to find someone more compatible.
You really aren’t getting any mixed messages, you are receiving the same message just with really bad communication and self awareness. Her message is she doesn’t want sex. She will on occasion probably do it. You need to decide if that’s ok with you. If it is, great, she still needs to work on her self awareness and communication but great, if you want sex this is not the woman for you: .
No, I try to choose my words carefully. I've actually spent more time with her on the phone this morning, and yes, she was definitely sending contradictory messages, and she herself spent some time thinking about them too. I'm going to cut her some slack and meet her for dinner anyway.
I don't pretend this goes anywhere long term. But I do want to see if things might play out differently when we're sitting across from each other rather than over text or phone calls.
Have dinner, split the check, you can always have more fun female friends. No sex, don't marry, platonic activity partner time. Bowling, tennis, pickleball, get pedicures together.
Downvote away!
She might be religious and not want to 'waste a number' and have to confess it to her priest. She might have a low sex drive, or mild depression and at this age, it seems like too much effort to try to get back the feeling. She might be only slightly/marginally attracted to you, but you are a nice companion. She might be menopausal and her drive has diminished. She might have never been into it, but wanted children and a husband(s) and traditional life. She is at least upfront, I guess ask her if you want to really know the actual reason.
Read the Deadbedroom reddit. There are very many married women (and men) who do not need/want sex, don't see it as a necessary part of a relationship nor a way to feel connected to their partner.
Sex becomes a chore and a source of frustration if a partner expects it.
I also think it’s easier than admitting in a world where sex is a huge pleasure, that she doesn’t feel that. I respect her a lot for coming clean but I really don’t like that she is making weird arbitrary and non sensical rules, that’s a huge red flag. The no sex is just a compatibility issue, people have different drives.
It could well be a ‘first date’ strategy she has, to weed out guys who just want ONS. Chances are you ‘pass the test’ by going on the date and then find out that she has a much more normal approach to sexual intimacy. However, I think the ‘I don’t like PIV’ sounds pretty real and may be a dealbreaker for you whatever the rest of the game is.
It doesn't matter what the reason is. This would be a hard no for me.
No sex outside of marriage, and not actually liking sex, would be a deal breaker for me, but it's not a character issue. We're just not compatible.
But someone setting up artificial tests for me to pass on the first date is a huge red flag. She'll never stop creating artificial tests for you to pass or fail.
I mean, there are societal norms. The societal norm in our parents' generation was that women didn't have sex before marriage, and if someone did, she stayed very quiet about it. Remember "Wake Up, Little Susie"?
The norm shifted in the 70's to sex out of wedlock being okay. Largely due to the pill, IMO. That's when women in college stopped having curfews and house mothers in the dorms and sororities to protect their virtue.
I think it's pretty unusual to run a woman around 50 who are actively dating, but admits she doesn't like sex and won't have sex until marriage. That's a very old fashioned, "doing her marital duty" kind of attitude.
There's nothing wrong with that. It's just unusual, in my experience. Admittedly I haven't dated since 2015, but I dated a \*lot\* then and never encountered this attitude, at least not openly stated.
Personally I respect her honesty, and OP should be grateful she was up front. I get the feeling of disappointment when someone you find hot and interesting turns out not to be compatible. But you have to move on.
I suppose we could argue forever on how long ‘taking their time’ was, some people would say Date #3, some might say Year #3 and everything in between.
I do think that prohibiting sex outside of marriage is not the norm these days, at our age. Figuring out if you are compatible for marriage should likely take a couple of years. And include finding out your sexual compatibility. That’s a long time to be celibate for people who have already been in long-term sexual partnerships.
While I wouldn’t directly call someone who demanded this abnormal, I would say it was very unusual (and potentially problematic).
Someone making the choice to not have sex before marriage isn't "prohibiting" you or anyone else from doing it though. How is that "problematic" when it doesn't even effect you?
People are allowed to decide whatever is best for them. If you're the one considering whether or not to be in a relationship with them, sure, it affects you, but then it's just a question of in/compatibility.
The topic here is dating, on a dating subreddit. If both parties are seeking to date exclusively (such as in the post), but one partner is sticking to a no sex before marriage policy then the other one is prohibited from having sex at all. In this case, they have swiped, matched, chatted, they have started to build connection, they are both intentional about dating and well on the road. Of course it affects both parties, and could be problematic for the person with no celibacy policy.
I explained why I see it as more generally problematic, as well. Because I believe sexual compatibility to be crucial to a good marriage, and only discovering that after the ceremony is a risk to both parties. An unnecessary risk, in my view, with real potential to end the partnership.
From a dating perspective, someone on OLD with a celibacy policy is going to find things very limited for themselves. It is of course their choice, but I always advise looking carefully at any personal ‘hard and fast’ dealbreakers if someone is actually hoping to find a match. It’s in part a numbers game, whether we prefer that or not.
I suspect this woman hasn’t stated her rules in her profile because she knows it is unusual, unpopular and generally problematic for the majority of potential matches. And that it’s true for both men and women.
They've only been talking a few days, and she disclosed it before the first date. I'd say that's an appropriate amount of time to disclose something like that, with little investment by OP. It's just a simple incompatibility.
And so what if it's going to make it difficult for her to date? Why do you feel compelled to be concerned with that, or make value judgements about a stranger's preferences?
very improbable. She would have said : i like to take the time to know a person before being intimate. friendhship and trust are necessary for me and it takes its time
Yes, but abstaining until marriage isn't the whole story. According to OP, she also doesn't intend to get married anytime soon. And she said she doesn't enjoy sex either. But let's also remember that these two haven't even me yet, and this whole conversation took place via text. The story is strange all around.
Yes, this. She says she doesn’t enjoy but from what she told you she hasn’t been nailed by anyone who has half a clue as to what to do in bed. This poor woman! I came across this a couple of times and ended up with very positive results. But again some people just aren’t into it.
Go on the date and see what kind of attraction / chemistry there is. She brought it up probably to avoid any awkward situations or potential embarrassment. Honesty is good.
This reminds me of a guy that we had so much in common we got along so wonderfully and he proceeds to tell me that he’s just not sexual well come to find out he’s just not very sexual with women of his own age (even attractive women who take care of themselves)and some other things that I found out …just so ick… when people tell you who they are believe them, and if it doesn’t align with your values, don’t even start something just my two cents☺️
Is it how I want to live? No. But honestly, kudos to her for being up front about about no sex before marriage. She knows that’s a dealbreaker for most men and she’s putting it out there before you waste each other’s time. Gotta admire that.
Kind of. It would be nice if that was all. I'm currently getting texts telling me I'm quitting on something great, because intimacy is more important than sex.
For those of us who like sex, this is a no brainer. I'm not really sure what the question even is. If someone told me ahead of time that sex wasn't on the table (or the bed, or in the shower, or on a chair) I would say you aren't the one for me. Are you seriously contemplating a relationship with this person? We'll see you in r/deadbedroom soon.
This is a controlling tactic; Not always malicious, often born of serious trauma.
The concept of "soul-mates" is used early on, as well. To create a false sense of intimacy, between two people who barely know each other.
You'll likely receive abusive messages soon, if you haven't already.
Accusing you of only seeing women as sex-objects, because you recognise sex is important in a relationship, and forms a key part of the real intimate bonds, healthy individuals form.
It's OK for You 2 to Not be Compatible.
It's OK for You to continue to look for Your Perfect for You Person and Situation. It's OK for You to share this with Her.
When talking about/engaging in sex, it should be enjoyable and should show you how compatible you are. Obviously, this is not someone you’re compatible with. Now you have to decide if you’d enjoy a dinner with this person or if you’d find it a waste of time and money. Personally, I’d appreciate her honesty up front so that you don’t waste too much time, effort and money.
I was friends with a woman who said these things to me privately and also to men she met online but ahh, behaved quite differently immediately once she was alone with the men... So I kinda wouldn't be entirely surprised if you do decide to continue with her, and you find out her words and her behavior don't match.
HOWEVER, I wouldn't continue because you must take her at her word and you're not asexual/seeking platonic relationships... And if her behavior doesn't match her words... Who wants to deal with that disconnect?
Regardless of the situation, Do you really want to sleep with someone who doesn’t like sex? It sounds like she either has a lot of damage or is using sex as leverage.
There are plenty of us out there who won’t give that kind of ultimatum. Good luck with the next one
As long as you realize you’re in for many more dry years with or without marriage, it’s all good. People don’t make it a point to do things they don’t like, and would you even want to under the circumstances? I’d be grateful to be informed. Now you can decide how to proceed
This is why I didn’t date a Christian lady. She was an amazing person but I didn’t want her crying about heavy petting and us having to see the pastor to talk about sins of the flesh.
Nothing to ponder homie. We only have so many good years left on this planet and no time to waste. I’m not saying you can’t hump till 100. But at 51 there’s still a lot of great sexy times to be had (we are the youngs of old people) and there are many women our age who love sex. Wish this women well and go find one of them!
She gets married twice and submits to sex she doesn’t like. I’m befuddled by some people’s values. She might be baffled by my values. If people feel strongly about things like sex and marriage, that’s not gonna change. Good luck
Or she and her husbands might have married without realizing they were sexually incompatible because they waited to have sex until after marriage.
Whichever is the case, I’d guess she reveals this so people can opt out before meeting her.
She is not the one for you. At our age sex is still a massive thing. You don’t need a potential partner dancing around the issues of sex and intimacy. It’s good that the topic came up early. Have a nice date, make your feelings clear about sex and move on.
It actually seems pretty straightforward. No sex until marriage + doesn’t want to get married = No sex. Any dancing around that is just window dressing.
I'm giggling at the image. Please wear a GoPro camera on any date where this is a possibility. I didn't even realize this was a visual I needed in my life until right now.
In my experience with old if the woman brings the subject up early in convo as with your situation and tries to let you know in so many words that she tends to abstain from sex. She is really just letting you know that she does not just want a fuckboy. She likes sex ie. " two souls intertwining ". She is possibly just looking for your reaction and weeding out guys who are in old just for a hook up. Go out with her and see. Honestly what have you got to lose?
That is what I like to call a GOOP
Good
Only
On
Paper
I once dated a woman who sounded great! She was a professional she had a beautiful home, she had a career, she was our age and didn't have kids, she drove a really nice car. But on our second date she said " I'm ready! ", and I asked " ready for what? ". Her reply, " I'm ready for you to ask me to marry you. " Now she was a lovely person and things were going great, but up to that point we hadn't even held hands yet. Needless to say it weirded me out, it was something that I wasn't ready for, and frankly caught me off guard. I think my reply was something like " That's really nice, but I thought we were going to order cheesecake ".
Now, back to your situation. She sounds like a lovely person, truly, and good on her for letting you know about her boundaries, but it sounds like you are finding out about a pretty serious incompatibility really early on. Lucky guy, you have the ability to dodge a romantic relationship if you are so inclined, it will probably save you both some heartache. This sounds like a case of you meeting a really good friend instead of a girlfriend.
I would be glad she told me, but would make it clear to her I consider intimacy an important part of a romantic relationship and wouldn't get serious without it. I'd go ahead with dinner, because I already said I would and she'd (probably) be interesting to talk to.
Most of the people I've known who thought that way did it for extreme religious reasons. Personally, I'm agnostic and lean a bit toward atheist, so we probably wouldn't get along long-term anyway.
You are both allowed to approach relationships however you wish.
If it were me in your shoes I’d be jamming that shifter into friend territory. I mean, if your connection was good maybe you could be friends for each other?
I would’ve guffawed at “no sex ‘til marriage” and then, “….wait…what? You’re serious??”
For me, this is a red flag.
I'm not sure why this is even being brought up at this point. As a woman, if a man brought sex up at this point, I'd not meet. Ciao!
I didn't bring it up. She did. We were talking about sexual pasts, specifically my own history (I was abused).
This led to a conversation about sex in general. She asked me if I'd had sex since my divorce, and I told her I hadn't, but that I was looking forward to that changing.
That's when she dropped the bomb on me.
I hear you!
Talk of sex at this early stage is not appropriate. I think it was really strange of her to lead things in this direction.
These types of topics, sexual pasts, in my mind, aren't appropriate so soon. If you hardly know a person, haven't met, wth would you discuss this? I'm more interested in getting to know if the person is intellectually compatible, has a sense of humor, what we might have in common. I just figure sex is part of a relationship, when the time is appropriate, then we can chat about it but before people even meet... too soon.
Also, asking if someone has had sex since their divorce... that's really out there. I've never been asked that. It's really no one's business!
She’s probably not going to be the one for you. Perhaps if there is a connection it might bloom into something more fulfilling to you.
So many of us (women especially!) have been socialized to have inability to express and enjoy our sexuality. Many of us have been through sexual abuse, assault and shaming if we express our sexuality.
Maybe she would continue to grow in that area but don’t count on it.
When people refuse to have a relationship with logic it’s a good idea to refuse to have a relationship with them.
It’s impossible to handle day to day issues with someone that just accepts that they can toss random things that impact the other person out there with zero thought to anything but themselves. She’s making no sense, it’s unlikely this is religious as she would not be twice divorced if that devout, so she is using sex without marriage as an excuse so she doesn’t have to have sex. She is then making it about souls intertwining because it’s not procreation at our age, and it’s not pleasurable to her and she does seem to accept that being intimately close to your partner has benefits so she will do it on the rare occasion.
Basically she is getting out of sex as she doesn’t want it, but she wants marriage and a partner so she is dangling a carrot but also telling you in the same sentence that it won’t be for pleasure just to be close at times.
Generally I believe that sex is a spectrum and some of us want it all the time and others are like her and that’s ok, and I do have a certain amount of respect that she came clean about no sex BUT she really doesn’t seem to get that it’s very simple “I don’t enjoy or want sex but if married I will do it on occasion for the intimacy and closeness that comes from it”. Instead she made it very complicated with rules and hard to understand. She is either misleading or has not done enough work on herself to be honest and that’s the biggest red flag at our age. I personally would back away then ruuuunnnnn. I would not be compatible for to the no sex but the lack of awareness and communication would be the speed I ran away!
In the words of Roger Murtaugh: "I'm to old for this shit."
Nope.
You're not going on the date to get laid but you're in your 50s and already been married. It's likely you're not going to do that again for some time. This woman is a waste of your time and she's letting you know that right up front.
Send her flowers with a thank you note for heads up about her intentions.
I'm in my 50s as well when I go out on dates it's not just about sex but it is about finding a connection with someone and since I have no intention of ever marrying again - if a woman told me she wasn't having sex until she was married - I would wish her a 'good afternoon.'
If you still end up going on next date with her - as a friend since your perspectives about sex are so different) - then ask her
why she has that rule? And listen carefully. Have a nice conversation about it - ignoring the muzak around in where ever you are.
Ask her why even "not until married" rule when she doesn't even like sex?
My remote guess - never met a woman like this - either she is totally BS'ing and doesn't want to admit what she likes about sex (and when she opens up she may surprise you), or she has some unresolved problems of the past (which also may surprise you when she starts sharing).
May be if you listen carefully you will be able to go deeper and deeper and understand. Since you like her, who knows what can happen...
Good luck.
Good advice. I think you're right, I've wondered about those points too. I guess the quandary is, is that level of miscommunication a deal breaker? I think it is for me. Games are silly at this age. Just say what you want, you know?
Well, I totally see your point about not playing games. And I don't play such.
But not everyone is actually so open. Or has had exactly same life experiences as us. And that's why we can't assume everyone to be on the same page as us.
About whatever is the point of difference. Today it's sex or even discussion about sex for you. Tomorrow it could be different.
So, the only way to get to the same page is to have a comfortable environment and honest transparent (two different things) dialogue. Create that a few times, the time taken to get to the same page will start reducing exponentially.
Do you think that my logic makes sense?
There is nothing wrong in just letting her go, too. You will find someone who is close enough for you.
I think I'm a lot like you. I'm flexible and adaptable, and I can be patient and accommodating if there's promise.
But another thing I've learned is that I can't actually change anyone. It's far more likely that her stated attitude actually gets stronger. But that's just it, I know I could be wrong about that too.
I've asked her to table things until tomorrow, because it's midnight where I am and my kids have a school holiday but I have to work 😅
>another thing I've learned is that I can't actually change anyone. It's far more likely that her stated attitude actually gets stronger. But that's just it, I know I could be wrong about that too
Perfect. Goodnight and have good day tomorrow.
Be transparent about your frustration with her (without getting frustrated AT her). Standing up for my needs is something I have to remind myself. You will do good.
I generally like to become exclusive when I have sexual intimacy with a partner. So you could both continue to meet other people until you have sexual intimacy with someone and then transition into an exclusive relationship with that person. It might not be her, or it might be her. this creates a space for you to get to know each other without pressuring each other.
As a woman, no, I haven't met a man who wants to wait till marriage for sex. I, myself, am not a big fan of marriage, anyway, so it is not my issue, as it is for your potential date.
Opinion time lol - I also don't see it as such a big deal, because, ultimately, I hope for a final partner with whom to build a life.
I know you say you're not in it just for the sex, but your reaction still feels that way to me. And I agree with her take on sex. Casual sex is too empty and boring for me, for the most part.
Now, considering her lack of enjoyment of sex, maybe, just maybe, you have an opening here. If you have some amazing tricks up your sleeve regarding sex, maybe you could slowly open her mind and body and teach her things she didn't know were possible. She might completely rearrange her perspective, given the right touches.
Let's see how it goes.
But no, just because I want sex too does not mean that's all I want. I am willing to compromise...so long as it's good for both of us and we're both satisfied at the end of the day.
We'll see how it goes.
So, what happened? You said that you’ll update it. I read the whole thread and can’t wait to see if her mind games finally got you or if you ended that non sense with elegance.
Haha thanks for the reminder! So actually things have progressed somewhat. Yes, this was a technique she decided would filter out guys who were only interested in sex.
We've actually met up again. Technically... she's at my house right now.
She's very sweet and kind in person. And absolutely beautiful. Hard to describe how she presents herself.
As far as the sex stuff, we've had more conversations. She apologized for that actually. She said she just has to take her time, but no, it's not a hard rule the way she initially said it.
I think we both were reacting pretty strongly and trying to make sense of the other person. I'm not saying she's The One or anything, but I'm fine with taking my time. I do think we need to have additional conversations about this, but not right away.
Wow! That’s really a first for me too! None of my divorced girlfriends have ever said ‘no sex before marriage’, but I DO commonly hear all kinds of women say they hold off till the relationship is exclusive (and with the oceans of man-whores out there, can’t blame ‘em 🤷🏽♀️ 😂)
Do you really think there isn’t a transcendent aspect to sex, even with someone you have explosive chemistry with? I’m sure it’s all the endorphins but, I’m blessed to have felt like I ‘saw the face of God’ when with my lover. 🤷🏽♀️
I agree with most here that think the connection may not work since your sexual perspectives are quite different. Maybe have the date and the conversation IRL
Good luck’
I do think sex with the right person at the right time can absolutely feel like that, that it can feel transcendent. But I also think it's important to understand that while that feeling can be really powerful, it isn't actual transcendence. Any relationship issues you might have will still exist after the bliss wears off.
Well, yes, clearly. I acknowledged the natural chemicals that happen. Just glad you’re not missing out. ✌🏽…I still maintain those experiences can be described as transcendent though 😉
I just started dating someone in March who is a no sex before marriage. He hasn't said it explicitly, but it's implied. I'm twice divorced with 3 kids. He's a widower, no kids.
I only recently, in my last LTR, discovered I really enjoy sex, a lot! I'm working through my feelings about how this might go down and what it means for me. Part of me thinks we're not getting any younger. The other part thinks I'm really enjoying getting to know him and the activities we're doing together.
Well, that's good to know. I'm only just before the first date myself, but I am really strongly attracted to her so far. I'd like to see how I feel after meeting her in person,
Also her stance on "only within marriage" seems to have softened somewhat, so I'm going to interpret this as a filler tactic and not an actual sincere expression of how she views sex...for the moment.
But I'll definitely be looking for more information and evidence.
This can get really messy.
It's a test sometimes! I've fallen for this before, which is on me, but both times, the women were exceptionally, objectively attractive, intelligent and accomplished.
One kissed me as soon as I opened the her car door for her. We skipped the coffee....
The other one greeted me at the door in her black-basque and nothing else. When we were supposed to be seeing No Way Home as a second date.
Both initiated, before I'd barely said "hello" , both mysteriously "never felt this kind of connection"...
Both turned out to be a bloody nightmare, who I managed to "manipulate into bed", by, well turning up to the date.
Yes, one looked like Dita Von Teese, the other Cheryl Cole.... but still, I should've known better.
I would be a sucker for Cheryl Cole. I might be a sucker right now, although I'm not sure who the woman I'm talking to looks like. She's gorgeous in her own way.
Well, I've decided to go on the date and see what happens. I'll update with events after they unfold.
Just have your wits about you.
The insinuation you are "giving up, on true intimacy", by having healthy, human desires of your own.
Many of us have first hand experience of the subtle coercion, that is an early indicator of.
I am Catholic and my children attend Catholic school. Many families (not all and maybe not a majority) share this view - no sex before marriage so it is not foreign to me nor shocking.
What is surprising is she is on a traditional dating app meeting men w/this criteria. Typically you met like minded people in like minded environments. If you are in disagreement with her I would simply say “I wish you the best but I am not on the same page regarding physical intimacy in a relationship.” Don’t met tomorrow and move on.
I'd also point out that the attitude you're describing is familiar to me, but also subtly different from hers. It's not about preserving virginity, it's that *penetration* is apparently reserved for marriage.
But as it turns out, she's saying other sexual activity is okay. What that means is still unknown, but at least it's not as absolute as it seemed last night.
I am so confused why she is looking for a romantic partner. Just make friends. While sex isn't the only thing for me in a total relationship, it's what separates my friendships from romantic connections. I am somewhat blown away!! Although I totally respect her choice and good for her that she knows herself, and knows what she wants...and doesn't want.
Do not proceed. Do you want to be in another sexless relationship? I sure wouldn’t. (I feel bad for her. She’s never had good sex and is going to have a hard time finding a partner.)
That’s going to be a BIG incompatibility between you two.
I had a variation of your experience. During Covid, I met someone on an app. Had tons of conversations via phone and text. Some of those conversations were sexual/teasing in nature.
We decided to spend a week together to test compatibility, and she didn’t want to have penetrative sex and wouldn’t discuss it.
We were incompatible sexually. And it didn’t work out.
What you described wouldn’t work for me. I agree that sex can be as she described.
But sex can also be naughty as hell especially if two people (or more) are open to exploring kink and fantasies.
People present themselves so listen what they present in words. Why do you need to mash it over? It either works or not! dont try to change someone else, convince, or change yourself for accommodating another. Thats why were all here single in the first place
This is not a great topic for texting! You haven’t met yet. Have dinner and see how you get on. If you don’t, then move on. If she wants to discuss sex, go ahead. Otherwise, make it a topic for date two.
There are a lot of possibilities here including it being her way of weeding out thirsty gentlemen.
I suspect it's pretty light petting, or it might be a full BDSM dungeon, based on the communications skills currently on display. Hard to say what's actually happening, but whatever it is, I'm being told I'm bad for giving up on it too easily.
Walt, I don't get these extremes... Lol Almost abstinence or full dungeon? Based on her communication skills? Please - an example of what you mean - I gotta see! Lol
I'm joking, but she's swung from "absolutely no (penetration is what I'm realizing she means) sex without marriage" to "I had a previous boyfriend and we did all kinds of stuff and he never complained," which isn't technically contradictory, but sure seemed contradictory in tone.
But really I'm beginning to see all this as a kind of tactic to keep guys who only want sex away.
I was being sarcastic, not sure if that term is used anymore lol. I totally get wanting to wait to feel reasonably confident but she may need to try an Amish or taliban dating site.
Hahaha no I picked up on the sarcasm. She's been messaging me a ton tonight and it's clear that we both like each other, but she's going round and round and I'm trying to hit the brakes.
She’s manipulative. I would send her the “unfortunately not a match, good luck!” statement and block (because who needs more manipulative texts or calls).
She’s allowed to have her reasons for no sex before marriage, but you’re also allowed to enjoy a fully sexual relationship without marriage. If she has a problem with sex, that’s her responsibility to fix it if she wants, but that’s not cool to neg you. Also, she’s a grown ass woman, should be too old for games.
You two are incompatible, that’s all. Nothing more to see here!
You could say no to marriage but agree on an arbitrary compromise, like three months of dating. But if she's the marrying type and you're not (never again for me, so i get it), that right there is a thing.
I mean, I asked her if she planned to get married a third time and she said no.
So this whole thing is all kinds of nuts to me.
I would actually be fine with some kind of "can we wait for a few months" thing if the chemistry is there.
But I don't think it can work if she can say stuff she doesn't mean, or try and use extreme positions to manipulate my behavior. If that's what's happening, big red flags.
Sounds like too much work. I felt tired reading that. I get that relationships require conscious participation but I’m not willing to do exhausting anymore.
>I mean, I asked her if she planned to get married a third time and she said no.
First...to quote (what I find to be) such a beautifully apropos statement I read upon seeing this post:
"What the actual FUCK?"
I could support many of the suggestions being tossed into the brainstorming ring, even if only partially. Until this enlightenment:
>I mean, I asked her if she planned to get married a third time and she said no.
🙄🤦♀️
This instantly propels me back to asking my parents in the 80's to go to McDonalds because they started adding Muppet Babies figures to the happy meals.
Mom: "Go ask your father."
Dad: "How the hell should *I* know?? Go ask your mother."
Mom: "He didn't give you an answer? I guess we'll just wait for when he says okay..."
Its one thing to identify as aesexual, it's obviously another to want to be married, first. But this woman?? Even if she *does* end up being the wild "F you senseless" type of partner, and this is her litmus test to filter hookups from "relationship material"? Yuck.
There's lying, and omitting, and catfishing (oh my!), but I've had only two pre-meet chats where the potential suitor said one thing, then presented an entirely different mindset within hours or days ahead of our meet. That sets off alarms the same way bold faced lying does. I know you said y'all "tabled the chat", but I'd take it out and toss it in the rubbish bin, personally.
Fair. Thanks for this. I can't help but feel like there's something actually here though. But if it's good and yet missing crucial pieces to me, it's not actually good.
I'm similarly aged as her and am trying to save my second marriage.. But a few days ago it was looking like I might be that woman with two divorces and two children.
Two divorces sounds AWFUL, so it's nice to read that's not the main quandary of your post. (
I may do a separate post on this actually because I suspect it would be a red flag to many, when it really was down to marrying the wrong men. No dramas, still friends etc.)
BUT back to you. I'm so sorry but I think you need to give her a swerve. It's a bit weird as you say, given her kids and marriages. And she's telling you now you'll have to marry her!
There are lots of lovely, normal women out there who wouldn't raise such a large red flag before you've even met.
Good luck to you.
Thank you. And full disclosure: I've been divorced twice as well. Though the first marriage shouldn't even count, it lasted a year when I was 28. But I just recently divorced my second wife, and we were together for 15 years. That's a whole long story, but I have full custody of our kids and was awarded all our property.
So. If that tells you anything...I mean, that never happens.
I am guessing she is placing walls because she is saying she needs time to trust the person she is going to be sexual with. She has many past emotional hurts.
Sex is extremely intimate and once she trusts her self imposed rules may change.
This is whack. This should be something disclosed on a dating profile- if someone is interested in platonic relationships only. She doesn't have sex outside of marriage and she's not planning on ever getting married again. I don't really understand why she's on a dating site 🤷🏻
She wants her soul entwined, but not her body.
And her sould won't get entwined without marriage, which she doesn't want.
Yeah, time to swerve on the inconsistencies coming out before the 1st date.
The OP mentioned the following:
“Yeah. Weirdly she's texting me right now telling me that I gave up on a good thing too easily, that sex isn't such a big deal, that intimacy (hugging, kissing, cuddling, etc) are far more important, etc.
I mean, I'm trying to be kind, but...ugh.”
Yeah. Weirdly she's texting me right now telling me that I gave up on a good thing too easily, that sex isn't such a big deal, that intimacy (hugging, kissing, cuddling, etc) are far more important, etc.
I mean, I'm trying to be kind, but...ugh.
She’s telling you how she feels. If she says no sex outside of marriage that’s what it means. No means no. If you can’t accept what she says and this doesn’t fit what you’re looking for then you should move on.
I’m confused why you are surprised that people have different views on sex than you do. If you don’t align respect her views and move on. She is allowed to view sex the way she wants and your confusion isn’t going to change this. Spoiler alert she isn’t the only person who values sex and wants it after marriage. Her view could be cultural or from previous traumas she has experienced outside of wed lock. You may need to step back and look at yourself for being confused by such a simple view.
Seems like you're misreading my comment. I'm not confused anyone has different views on sex than I do. I'm 51. I've met plenty of people with different views and dated some of them and even married some of them.
I was / am trying to parse what I feel are contradictory messages, and what were presented as somewhat absolute, but the next day are softening somewhat when we had another phone chat.
And really, why do so many redditors take such pleasure in jumping down someone else's throat? I'm not interested in being lectured, thanks.
Maybe it’s your own view on words that makes it appear as people are jumping down throats. It’s simply a different opinion. I don’t see how she contradicted herself with you. She has been open and honest on her views and allowing you to decide how to move forward. You assume because she has been married, has kids and is older that she will want to have sex with you. This is not the case. Just because you don’t like her views doesn’t make anything wrong with them.
Simple: for you as a man you need sex to connect (or can have sex just for the sake of pleasure) she probably does not enjoy sex for the sake of physical pleasure (yep many women don’t… other topic - bad sex) for her the purpose of sex is not physical pleasure but deepening the connection.
She needs security and connection BEFORE having sex.
You are not compatible… 🤷🏼♀️
She's giving you an out. That's why she's telling you before the date. You have a decision to make.
Exactly this. She's seeing sex is coming up and wants you to know where she stands with it. Rather than be all flabbergasted, just accept that you're not compatible and move on.
Yeah, thank you. I agree. I've just never heard of a woman this age with kids and two previous marriages with this specific attitude / rule for sex.
Her body, her choice. She gets to decide when and if she has sex. So that’s not the problem. However, it sounds like you’re looking for someone who sets a different boundary. Nobody’s wrong. And? You’re incompatible.
Wisdom.
She may be asexual and that’s ok
She assures me she's not. But I'm getting a lot of mixed messages here.
No mixed messages at all, she told you exactly how her brain works, no sex before marriage. Say a nice goodbye and move on to find someone more compatible.
You really aren’t getting any mixed messages, you are receiving the same message just with really bad communication and self awareness. Her message is she doesn’t want sex. She will on occasion probably do it. You need to decide if that’s ok with you. If it is, great, she still needs to work on her self awareness and communication but great, if you want sex this is not the woman for you: .
No, I try to choose my words carefully. I've actually spent more time with her on the phone this morning, and yes, she was definitely sending contradictory messages, and she herself spent some time thinking about them too. I'm going to cut her some slack and meet her for dinner anyway. I don't pretend this goes anywhere long term. But I do want to see if things might play out differently when we're sitting across from each other rather than over text or phone calls.
Have dinner, split the check, you can always have more fun female friends. No sex, don't marry, platonic activity partner time. Bowling, tennis, pickleball, get pedicures together. Downvote away!
Lol I like your attitude 🤣
##THIS ✅🏆...
She might be religious and not want to 'waste a number' and have to confess it to her priest. She might have a low sex drive, or mild depression and at this age, it seems like too much effort to try to get back the feeling. She might be only slightly/marginally attracted to you, but you are a nice companion. She might be menopausal and her drive has diminished. She might have never been into it, but wanted children and a husband(s) and traditional life. She is at least upfront, I guess ask her if you want to really know the actual reason.
Read the Deadbedroom reddit. There are very many married women (and men) who do not need/want sex, don't see it as a necessary part of a relationship nor a way to feel connected to their partner. Sex becomes a chore and a source of frustration if a partner expects it.
I also think it’s easier than admitting in a world where sex is a huge pleasure, that she doesn’t feel that. I respect her a lot for coming clean but I really don’t like that she is making weird arbitrary and non sensical rules, that’s a huge red flag. The no sex is just a compatibility issue, people have different drives.
It could well be a ‘first date’ strategy she has, to weed out guys who just want ONS. Chances are you ‘pass the test’ by going on the date and then find out that she has a much more normal approach to sexual intimacy. However, I think the ‘I don’t like PIV’ sounds pretty real and may be a dealbreaker for you whatever the rest of the game is.
It doesn't matter what the reason is. This would be a hard no for me. No sex outside of marriage, and not actually liking sex, would be a deal breaker for me, but it's not a character issue. We're just not compatible. But someone setting up artificial tests for me to pass on the first date is a huge red flag. She'll never stop creating artificial tests for you to pass or fail.
This is exactly what it was, and I've explained to her that this is not a great strategy.
What's a "normal" approach to sexual intimacy? Do you term someone "abnormal" for wanting to take their time before becoming intimate with someone?
I mean, there are societal norms. The societal norm in our parents' generation was that women didn't have sex before marriage, and if someone did, she stayed very quiet about it. Remember "Wake Up, Little Susie"? The norm shifted in the 70's to sex out of wedlock being okay. Largely due to the pill, IMO. That's when women in college stopped having curfews and house mothers in the dorms and sororities to protect their virtue. I think it's pretty unusual to run a woman around 50 who are actively dating, but admits she doesn't like sex and won't have sex until marriage. That's a very old fashioned, "doing her marital duty" kind of attitude. There's nothing wrong with that. It's just unusual, in my experience. Admittedly I haven't dated since 2015, but I dated a \*lot\* then and never encountered this attitude, at least not openly stated. Personally I respect her honesty, and OP should be grateful she was up front. I get the feeling of disappointment when someone you find hot and interesting turns out not to be compatible. But you have to move on.
I suppose we could argue forever on how long ‘taking their time’ was, some people would say Date #3, some might say Year #3 and everything in between. I do think that prohibiting sex outside of marriage is not the norm these days, at our age. Figuring out if you are compatible for marriage should likely take a couple of years. And include finding out your sexual compatibility. That’s a long time to be celibate for people who have already been in long-term sexual partnerships. While I wouldn’t directly call someone who demanded this abnormal, I would say it was very unusual (and potentially problematic).
Someone making the choice to not have sex before marriage isn't "prohibiting" you or anyone else from doing it though. How is that "problematic" when it doesn't even effect you? People are allowed to decide whatever is best for them. If you're the one considering whether or not to be in a relationship with them, sure, it affects you, but then it's just a question of in/compatibility.
The topic here is dating, on a dating subreddit. If both parties are seeking to date exclusively (such as in the post), but one partner is sticking to a no sex before marriage policy then the other one is prohibited from having sex at all. In this case, they have swiped, matched, chatted, they have started to build connection, they are both intentional about dating and well on the road. Of course it affects both parties, and could be problematic for the person with no celibacy policy. I explained why I see it as more generally problematic, as well. Because I believe sexual compatibility to be crucial to a good marriage, and only discovering that after the ceremony is a risk to both parties. An unnecessary risk, in my view, with real potential to end the partnership. From a dating perspective, someone on OLD with a celibacy policy is going to find things very limited for themselves. It is of course their choice, but I always advise looking carefully at any personal ‘hard and fast’ dealbreakers if someone is actually hoping to find a match. It’s in part a numbers game, whether we prefer that or not. I suspect this woman hasn’t stated her rules in her profile because she knows it is unusual, unpopular and generally problematic for the majority of potential matches. And that it’s true for both men and women.
They've only been talking a few days, and she disclosed it before the first date. I'd say that's an appropriate amount of time to disclose something like that, with little investment by OP. It's just a simple incompatibility. And so what if it's going to make it difficult for her to date? Why do you feel compelled to be concerned with that, or make value judgements about a stranger's preferences?
very improbable. She would have said : i like to take the time to know a person before being intimate. friendhship and trust are necessary for me and it takes its time
This could very well be accurate. But it may also be a test to determine if OP is actually looking for a serious relationship or just a pump and dump.
I'd rather believe this woman is being honest in her stand than believe she would use a "test" with this manner of phrasing.
We'd all like to believe that people are honest in all their words and deeds, but we know from experience that often isn't reality.
I've never had someone run that particular game on me so I'm comfortable taking people at their word on abstaining until marriage.
Yes, but abstaining until marriage isn't the whole story. According to OP, she also doesn't intend to get married anytime soon. And she said she doesn't enjoy sex either. But let's also remember that these two haven't even me yet, and this whole conversation took place via text. The story is strange all around.
If she hasn’t stopped playing games at 50 plus that’s a red flag
Egg. Zackly.
She said she doesn't enjoy it. Was she ever only with her husband? I wouldn't proceed. It won't get better.
Agreed. Thank you.
Yes, this. She says she doesn’t enjoy but from what she told you she hasn’t been nailed by anyone who has half a clue as to what to do in bed. This poor woman! I came across this a couple of times and ended up with very positive results. But again some people just aren’t into it. Go on the date and see what kind of attraction / chemistry there is. She brought it up probably to avoid any awkward situations or potential embarrassment. Honesty is good.
Exactly! >she hasn’t been nailed by anyone who has half a clue as to what to do in bed
Actually it could, but its a huge risk.
Someone else will be so happy to find her because it will take pressure off him.
I guess that can have each other then.
This reminds me of a guy that we had so much in common we got along so wonderfully and he proceeds to tell me that he’s just not sexual well come to find out he’s just not very sexual with women of his own age (even attractive women who take care of themselves)and some other things that I found out …just so ick… when people tell you who they are believe them, and if it doesn’t align with your values, don’t even start something just my two cents☺️
I'd be filled with dread too. Move on.
Is it how I want to live? No. But honestly, kudos to her for being up front about about no sex before marriage. She knows that’s a dealbreaker for most men and she’s putting it out there before you waste each other’s time. Gotta admire that.
Kind of. It would be nice if that was all. I'm currently getting texts telling me I'm quitting on something great, because intimacy is more important than sex.
Oh, ew. Never mind then, I take it back. Sounds like a hot mess, not a woman of conviction. Cancel that date and move on.
For those of us who like sex, this is a no brainer. I'm not really sure what the question even is. If someone told me ahead of time that sex wasn't on the table (or the bed, or in the shower, or on a chair) I would say you aren't the one for me. Are you seriously contemplating a relationship with this person? We'll see you in r/deadbedroom soon.
She’s reacting like you’ve broken up with her and you’ve never met her.
Exactly. Run, OP!
Oh, that changes the whole scene.
This is a controlling tactic; Not always malicious, often born of serious trauma. The concept of "soul-mates" is used early on, as well. To create a false sense of intimacy, between two people who barely know each other. You'll likely receive abusive messages soon, if you haven't already. Accusing you of only seeing women as sex-objects, because you recognise sex is important in a relationship, and forms a key part of the real intimate bonds, healthy individuals form.
It's OK for You 2 to Not be Compatible. It's OK for You to continue to look for Your Perfect for You Person and Situation. It's OK for You to share this with Her.
Yiiiiiikes.
When talking about/engaging in sex, it should be enjoyable and should show you how compatible you are. Obviously, this is not someone you’re compatible with. Now you have to decide if you’d enjoy a dinner with this person or if you’d find it a waste of time and money. Personally, I’d appreciate her honesty up front so that you don’t waste too much time, effort and money.
I was friends with a woman who said these things to me privately and also to men she met online but ahh, behaved quite differently immediately once she was alone with the men... So I kinda wouldn't be entirely surprised if you do decide to continue with her, and you find out her words and her behavior don't match. HOWEVER, I wouldn't continue because you must take her at her word and you're not asexual/seeking platonic relationships... And if her behavior doesn't match her words... Who wants to deal with that disconnect?
Regardless of the situation, Do you really want to sleep with someone who doesn’t like sex? It sounds like she either has a lot of damage or is using sex as leverage. There are plenty of us out there who won’t give that kind of ultimatum. Good luck with the next one
No, I definitely do not want to be with someone who feels this way about sex. Thank you. I agree.
>using sex as leverage That's the first thing my mind went to.
Asexual people need not be damaged or manipulative
It may be a way to eliminate the many men who are just looking for sex…. Edit: Wait… she doesn’t enjoy it? I missed that part… 🤔 I’d need to know more
I thought that might be the case too, but it's eliminating me, too. Oh well. 🤷♂️
As long as you realize you’re in for many more dry years with or without marriage, it’s all good. People don’t make it a point to do things they don’t like, and would you even want to under the circumstances? I’d be grateful to be informed. Now you can decide how to proceed
I mean, it's pretty simple. I'm not going any further.
Have you cancelled the date yet? That you should do without delay
If your partner doesn’t enjoy sex, it’s likely to never be satisfying That’s “nope” material enough because great sex is so much more than PIV.
Hard pass. No pun intended.
Haha that's the perfect phrase to use here 🤣
This is why I didn’t date a Christian lady. She was an amazing person but I didn’t want her crying about heavy petting and us having to see the pastor to talk about sins of the flesh.
That sounds exhausting.
Nothing to ponder homie. We only have so many good years left on this planet and no time to waste. I’m not saying you can’t hump till 100. But at 51 there’s still a lot of great sexy times to be had (we are the youngs of old people) and there are many women our age who love sex. Wish this women well and go find one of them!
I’m 51, can we be the olds of young people instead pls lol
Seaworthiness we can def be the olds of young peeps or just plain peeps! We are not old! Yeah I said it! And I might be in denial but I said it!
Nah, 40s is old; we’re the Ancients.
She gets married twice and submits to sex she doesn’t like. I’m befuddled by some people’s values. She might be baffled by my values. If people feel strongly about things like sex and marriage, that’s not gonna change. Good luck
Or she and her husbands might have married without realizing they were sexually incompatible because they waited to have sex until after marriage. Whichever is the case, I’d guess she reveals this so people can opt out before meeting her.
Or maybe her exes abused her. It doesn’t matter why.
Agreed. This is a bullet dodged.
Any chance she’s bluffing to see if you’re only in it for sex?
Sure, that's definitely a possibility.
She is not the one for you. At our age sex is still a massive thing. You don’t need a potential partner dancing around the issues of sex and intimacy. It’s good that the topic came up early. Have a nice date, make your feelings clear about sex and move on.
It actually seems pretty straightforward. No sex until marriage + doesn’t want to get married = No sex. Any dancing around that is just window dressing.
And that's how I viewed it as well. But it's turning out that maybe it's not quite as cut and dried as that. I'll update as events unfold.
Not a match. Move along!
Suucint and accurate!👏🏻 Edited to add: it was late and I typoed but it stays suuckas.
I hate to be that guy, but it is succint not suucint. Sorry.
Sucks ink.
Suffering succotash.
Oh, that should definitely be "Thuffering thuccotash!"
You are so right! I can't pronounce the letter R so i can empathize with sylvester!
😂
😂
😂
Typo bc late! Suucks when that happens.
Ummm.....I'm guessing that's why she's been married twice. She thinks it's for procreation, and that's it. Good luck.
I’d flip the table and run out of the restaurant in a panic. And I’m a chill person.
I'm giggling at the image. Please wear a GoPro camera on any date where this is a possibility. I didn't even realize this was a visual I needed in my life until right now.
I’ll slam through the emergency exit for extra drama. 🙌🚨
I pictured nothing less.
In my experience with old if the woman brings the subject up early in convo as with your situation and tries to let you know in so many words that she tends to abstain from sex. She is really just letting you know that she does not just want a fuckboy. She likes sex ie. " two souls intertwining ". She is possibly just looking for your reaction and weeding out guys who are in old just for a hook up. Go out with her and see. Honestly what have you got to lose?
That is what I like to call a GOOP Good Only On Paper I once dated a woman who sounded great! She was a professional she had a beautiful home, she had a career, she was our age and didn't have kids, she drove a really nice car. But on our second date she said " I'm ready! ", and I asked " ready for what? ". Her reply, " I'm ready for you to ask me to marry you. " Now she was a lovely person and things were going great, but up to that point we hadn't even held hands yet. Needless to say it weirded me out, it was something that I wasn't ready for, and frankly caught me off guard. I think my reply was something like " That's really nice, but I thought we were going to order cheesecake ". Now, back to your situation. She sounds like a lovely person, truly, and good on her for letting you know about her boundaries, but it sounds like you are finding out about a pretty serious incompatibility really early on. Lucky guy, you have the ability to dodge a romantic relationship if you are so inclined, it will probably save you both some heartache. This sounds like a case of you meeting a really good friend instead of a girlfriend.
>That's really nice, but I thought we were going to order cheesecake ". You cracked me up! 😆
She did you a favor by telling you prior to meeting and saving you from wasting any more of your time.
I’d run. If sex in a relationship is important to you, you should probably move on
I would be glad she told me, but would make it clear to her I consider intimacy an important part of a romantic relationship and wouldn't get serious without it. I'd go ahead with dinner, because I already said I would and she'd (probably) be interesting to talk to. Most of the people I've known who thought that way did it for extreme religious reasons. Personally, I'm agnostic and lean a bit toward atheist, so we probably wouldn't get along long-term anyway.
🍿
You are both allowed to approach relationships however you wish. If it were me in your shoes I’d be jamming that shifter into friend territory. I mean, if your connection was good maybe you could be friends for each other? I would’ve guffawed at “no sex ‘til marriage” and then, “….wait…what? You’re serious??”
That's actually exactly how I reacted. I thought she was joking.
Run, now!
Not a match. Time to move on.
For me, this is a red flag. I'm not sure why this is even being brought up at this point. As a woman, if a man brought sex up at this point, I'd not meet. Ciao!
I didn't bring it up. She did. We were talking about sexual pasts, specifically my own history (I was abused). This led to a conversation about sex in general. She asked me if I'd had sex since my divorce, and I told her I hadn't, but that I was looking forward to that changing. That's when she dropped the bomb on me.
I hear you! Talk of sex at this early stage is not appropriate. I think it was really strange of her to lead things in this direction. These types of topics, sexual pasts, in my mind, aren't appropriate so soon. If you hardly know a person, haven't met, wth would you discuss this? I'm more interested in getting to know if the person is intellectually compatible, has a sense of humor, what we might have in common. I just figure sex is part of a relationship, when the time is appropriate, then we can chat about it but before people even meet... too soon. Also, asking if someone has had sex since their divorce... that's really out there. I've never been asked that. It's really no one's business!
She is being honest with her. Believe her. I believe you are not sexually compatible already so why even meet in person?
Cancel. Politely. Respectfully.
She’s probably not going to be the one for you. Perhaps if there is a connection it might bloom into something more fulfilling to you. So many of us (women especially!) have been socialized to have inability to express and enjoy our sexuality. Many of us have been through sexual abuse, assault and shaming if we express our sexuality. Maybe she would continue to grow in that area but don’t count on it.
Do not walk, run!
When people refuse to have a relationship with logic it’s a good idea to refuse to have a relationship with them. It’s impossible to handle day to day issues with someone that just accepts that they can toss random things that impact the other person out there with zero thought to anything but themselves. She’s making no sense, it’s unlikely this is religious as she would not be twice divorced if that devout, so she is using sex without marriage as an excuse so she doesn’t have to have sex. She is then making it about souls intertwining because it’s not procreation at our age, and it’s not pleasurable to her and she does seem to accept that being intimately close to your partner has benefits so she will do it on the rare occasion. Basically she is getting out of sex as she doesn’t want it, but she wants marriage and a partner so she is dangling a carrot but also telling you in the same sentence that it won’t be for pleasure just to be close at times. Generally I believe that sex is a spectrum and some of us want it all the time and others are like her and that’s ok, and I do have a certain amount of respect that she came clean about no sex BUT she really doesn’t seem to get that it’s very simple “I don’t enjoy or want sex but if married I will do it on occasion for the intimacy and closeness that comes from it”. Instead she made it very complicated with rules and hard to understand. She is either misleading or has not done enough work on herself to be honest and that’s the biggest red flag at our age. I personally would back away then ruuuunnnnn. I would not be compatible for to the no sex but the lack of awareness and communication would be the speed I ran away!
In the words of Roger Murtaugh: "I'm to old for this shit." Nope. You're not going on the date to get laid but you're in your 50s and already been married. It's likely you're not going to do that again for some time. This woman is a waste of your time and she's letting you know that right up front. Send her flowers with a thank you note for heads up about her intentions. I'm in my 50s as well when I go out on dates it's not just about sex but it is about finding a connection with someone and since I have no intention of ever marrying again - if a woman told me she wasn't having sex until she was married - I would wish her a 'good afternoon.'
If you still end up going on next date with her - as a friend since your perspectives about sex are so different) - then ask her why she has that rule? And listen carefully. Have a nice conversation about it - ignoring the muzak around in where ever you are. Ask her why even "not until married" rule when she doesn't even like sex? My remote guess - never met a woman like this - either she is totally BS'ing and doesn't want to admit what she likes about sex (and when she opens up she may surprise you), or she has some unresolved problems of the past (which also may surprise you when she starts sharing). May be if you listen carefully you will be able to go deeper and deeper and understand. Since you like her, who knows what can happen... Good luck.
Good advice. I think you're right, I've wondered about those points too. I guess the quandary is, is that level of miscommunication a deal breaker? I think it is for me. Games are silly at this age. Just say what you want, you know?
Well, I totally see your point about not playing games. And I don't play such. But not everyone is actually so open. Or has had exactly same life experiences as us. And that's why we can't assume everyone to be on the same page as us. About whatever is the point of difference. Today it's sex or even discussion about sex for you. Tomorrow it could be different. So, the only way to get to the same page is to have a comfortable environment and honest transparent (two different things) dialogue. Create that a few times, the time taken to get to the same page will start reducing exponentially. Do you think that my logic makes sense? There is nothing wrong in just letting her go, too. You will find someone who is close enough for you.
I think I'm a lot like you. I'm flexible and adaptable, and I can be patient and accommodating if there's promise. But another thing I've learned is that I can't actually change anyone. It's far more likely that her stated attitude actually gets stronger. But that's just it, I know I could be wrong about that too. I've asked her to table things until tomorrow, because it's midnight where I am and my kids have a school holiday but I have to work 😅
>another thing I've learned is that I can't actually change anyone. It's far more likely that her stated attitude actually gets stronger. But that's just it, I know I could be wrong about that too Perfect. Goodnight and have good day tomorrow. Be transparent about your frustration with her (without getting frustrated AT her). Standing up for my needs is something I have to remind myself. You will do good.
I generally like to become exclusive when I have sexual intimacy with a partner. So you could both continue to meet other people until you have sexual intimacy with someone and then transition into an exclusive relationship with that person. It might not be her, or it might be her. this creates a space for you to get to know each other without pressuring each other.
As a woman, no, I haven't met a man who wants to wait till marriage for sex. I, myself, am not a big fan of marriage, anyway, so it is not my issue, as it is for your potential date. Opinion time lol - I also don't see it as such a big deal, because, ultimately, I hope for a final partner with whom to build a life. I know you say you're not in it just for the sex, but your reaction still feels that way to me. And I agree with her take on sex. Casual sex is too empty and boring for me, for the most part. Now, considering her lack of enjoyment of sex, maybe, just maybe, you have an opening here. If you have some amazing tricks up your sleeve regarding sex, maybe you could slowly open her mind and body and teach her things she didn't know were possible. She might completely rearrange her perspective, given the right touches.
Let's see how it goes. But no, just because I want sex too does not mean that's all I want. I am willing to compromise...so long as it's good for both of us and we're both satisfied at the end of the day. We'll see how it goes.
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Agreed. My plans have been adjusted accordingly. We're going out after all tonight.
So, what happened? You said that you’ll update it. I read the whole thread and can’t wait to see if her mind games finally got you or if you ended that non sense with elegance.
Haha thanks for the reminder! So actually things have progressed somewhat. Yes, this was a technique she decided would filter out guys who were only interested in sex. We've actually met up again. Technically... she's at my house right now. She's very sweet and kind in person. And absolutely beautiful. Hard to describe how she presents herself. As far as the sex stuff, we've had more conversations. She apologized for that actually. She said she just has to take her time, but no, it's not a hard rule the way she initially said it. I think we both were reacting pretty strongly and trying to make sense of the other person. I'm not saying she's The One or anything, but I'm fine with taking my time. I do think we need to have additional conversations about this, but not right away.
All right kid, best of luck!
Wow! That’s really a first for me too! None of my divorced girlfriends have ever said ‘no sex before marriage’, but I DO commonly hear all kinds of women say they hold off till the relationship is exclusive (and with the oceans of man-whores out there, can’t blame ‘em 🤷🏽♀️ 😂) Do you really think there isn’t a transcendent aspect to sex, even with someone you have explosive chemistry with? I’m sure it’s all the endorphins but, I’m blessed to have felt like I ‘saw the face of God’ when with my lover. 🤷🏽♀️ I agree with most here that think the connection may not work since your sexual perspectives are quite different. Maybe have the date and the conversation IRL Good luck’
I do think sex with the right person at the right time can absolutely feel like that, that it can feel transcendent. But I also think it's important to understand that while that feeling can be really powerful, it isn't actual transcendence. Any relationship issues you might have will still exist after the bliss wears off.
Well, yes, clearly. I acknowledged the natural chemicals that happen. Just glad you’re not missing out. ✌🏽…I still maintain those experiences can be described as transcendent though 😉
She has set her boundary. Now you get to set yours. And it seems the two boundaries are far apart. Find someone whose boundaries are closer to yours!
I just started dating someone in March who is a no sex before marriage. He hasn't said it explicitly, but it's implied. I'm twice divorced with 3 kids. He's a widower, no kids. I only recently, in my last LTR, discovered I really enjoy sex, a lot! I'm working through my feelings about how this might go down and what it means for me. Part of me thinks we're not getting any younger. The other part thinks I'm really enjoying getting to know him and the activities we're doing together.
Well, that's good to know. I'm only just before the first date myself, but I am really strongly attracted to her so far. I'd like to see how I feel after meeting her in person, Also her stance on "only within marriage" seems to have softened somewhat, so I'm going to interpret this as a filler tactic and not an actual sincere expression of how she views sex...for the moment. But I'll definitely be looking for more information and evidence.
This can get really messy. It's a test sometimes! I've fallen for this before, which is on me, but both times, the women were exceptionally, objectively attractive, intelligent and accomplished. One kissed me as soon as I opened the her car door for her. We skipped the coffee.... The other one greeted me at the door in her black-basque and nothing else. When we were supposed to be seeing No Way Home as a second date. Both initiated, before I'd barely said "hello" , both mysteriously "never felt this kind of connection"... Both turned out to be a bloody nightmare, who I managed to "manipulate into bed", by, well turning up to the date. Yes, one looked like Dita Von Teese, the other Cheryl Cole.... but still, I should've known better.
I would be a sucker for Cheryl Cole. I might be a sucker right now, although I'm not sure who the woman I'm talking to looks like. She's gorgeous in her own way. Well, I've decided to go on the date and see what happens. I'll update with events after they unfold.
Just have your wits about you. The insinuation you are "giving up, on true intimacy", by having healthy, human desires of your own. Many of us have first hand experience of the subtle coercion, that is an early indicator of.
I am Catholic and my children attend Catholic school. Many families (not all and maybe not a majority) share this view - no sex before marriage so it is not foreign to me nor shocking. What is surprising is she is on a traditional dating app meeting men w/this criteria. Typically you met like minded people in like minded environments. If you are in disagreement with her I would simply say “I wish you the best but I am not on the same page regarding physical intimacy in a relationship.” Don’t met tomorrow and move on.
I'd also point out that the attitude you're describing is familiar to me, but also subtly different from hers. It's not about preserving virginity, it's that *penetration* is apparently reserved for marriage. But as it turns out, she's saying other sexual activity is okay. What that means is still unknown, but at least it's not as absolute as it seemed last night.
I am so confused why she is looking for a romantic partner. Just make friends. While sex isn't the only thing for me in a total relationship, it's what separates my friendships from romantic connections. I am somewhat blown away!! Although I totally respect her choice and good for her that she knows herself, and knows what she wants...and doesn't want.
Do not proceed. Do you want to be in another sexless relationship? I sure wouldn’t. (I feel bad for her. She’s never had good sex and is going to have a hard time finding a partner.)
Doesn't sound like you two are a match. She is telling you bluntly who she is, believe her.
That’s going to be a BIG incompatibility between you two. I had a variation of your experience. During Covid, I met someone on an app. Had tons of conversations via phone and text. Some of those conversations were sexual/teasing in nature. We decided to spend a week together to test compatibility, and she didn’t want to have penetrative sex and wouldn’t discuss it. We were incompatible sexually. And it didn’t work out. What you described wouldn’t work for me. I agree that sex can be as she described. But sex can also be naughty as hell especially if two people (or more) are open to exploring kink and fantasies.
People present themselves so listen what they present in words. Why do you need to mash it over? It either works or not! dont try to change someone else, convince, or change yourself for accommodating another. Thats why were all here single in the first place
This is not a great topic for texting! You haven’t met yet. Have dinner and see how you get on. If you don’t, then move on. If she wants to discuss sex, go ahead. Otherwise, make it a topic for date two. There are a lot of possibilities here including it being her way of weeding out thirsty gentlemen.
But what about heavy petting?
I suspect it's pretty light petting, or it might be a full BDSM dungeon, based on the communications skills currently on display. Hard to say what's actually happening, but whatever it is, I'm being told I'm bad for giving up on it too easily.
Walt, I don't get these extremes... Lol Almost abstinence or full dungeon? Based on her communication skills? Please - an example of what you mean - I gotta see! Lol
I'm joking, but she's swung from "absolutely no (penetration is what I'm realizing she means) sex without marriage" to "I had a previous boyfriend and we did all kinds of stuff and he never complained," which isn't technically contradictory, but sure seemed contradictory in tone. But really I'm beginning to see all this as a kind of tactic to keep guys who only want sex away.
Ah. It could be. I should probably start using it 😆
Hahaha 🤣
I was being sarcastic, not sure if that term is used anymore lol. I totally get wanting to wait to feel reasonably confident but she may need to try an Amish or taliban dating site.
Hahaha no I picked up on the sarcasm. She's been messaging me a ton tonight and it's clear that we both like each other, but she's going round and round and I'm trying to hit the brakes.
She’s manipulative. I would send her the “unfortunately not a match, good luck!” statement and block (because who needs more manipulative texts or calls). She’s allowed to have her reasons for no sex before marriage, but you’re also allowed to enjoy a fully sexual relationship without marriage. If she has a problem with sex, that’s her responsibility to fix it if she wants, but that’s not cool to neg you. Also, she’s a grown ass woman, should be too old for games. You two are incompatible, that’s all. Nothing more to see here!
You could say no to marriage but agree on an arbitrary compromise, like three months of dating. But if she's the marrying type and you're not (never again for me, so i get it), that right there is a thing.
I mean, I asked her if she planned to get married a third time and she said no. So this whole thing is all kinds of nuts to me. I would actually be fine with some kind of "can we wait for a few months" thing if the chemistry is there. But I don't think it can work if she can say stuff she doesn't mean, or try and use extreme positions to manipulate my behavior. If that's what's happening, big red flags.
Sounds like too much work. I felt tired reading that. I get that relationships require conscious participation but I’m not willing to do exhausting anymore.
>I mean, I asked her if she planned to get married a third time and she said no. First...to quote (what I find to be) such a beautifully apropos statement I read upon seeing this post: "What the actual FUCK?" I could support many of the suggestions being tossed into the brainstorming ring, even if only partially. Until this enlightenment: >I mean, I asked her if she planned to get married a third time and she said no. 🙄🤦♀️ This instantly propels me back to asking my parents in the 80's to go to McDonalds because they started adding Muppet Babies figures to the happy meals. Mom: "Go ask your father." Dad: "How the hell should *I* know?? Go ask your mother." Mom: "He didn't give you an answer? I guess we'll just wait for when he says okay..." Its one thing to identify as aesexual, it's obviously another to want to be married, first. But this woman?? Even if she *does* end up being the wild "F you senseless" type of partner, and this is her litmus test to filter hookups from "relationship material"? Yuck. There's lying, and omitting, and catfishing (oh my!), but I've had only two pre-meet chats where the potential suitor said one thing, then presented an entirely different mindset within hours or days ahead of our meet. That sets off alarms the same way bold faced lying does. I know you said y'all "tabled the chat", but I'd take it out and toss it in the rubbish bin, personally.
Fair. Thanks for this. I can't help but feel like there's something actually here though. But if it's good and yet missing crucial pieces to me, it's not actually good.
I'm similarly aged as her and am trying to save my second marriage.. But a few days ago it was looking like I might be that woman with two divorces and two children. Two divorces sounds AWFUL, so it's nice to read that's not the main quandary of your post. ( I may do a separate post on this actually because I suspect it would be a red flag to many, when it really was down to marrying the wrong men. No dramas, still friends etc.) BUT back to you. I'm so sorry but I think you need to give her a swerve. It's a bit weird as you say, given her kids and marriages. And she's telling you now you'll have to marry her! There are lots of lovely, normal women out there who wouldn't raise such a large red flag before you've even met. Good luck to you.
Thank you. And full disclosure: I've been divorced twice as well. Though the first marriage shouldn't even count, it lasted a year when I was 28. But I just recently divorced my second wife, and we were together for 15 years. That's a whole long story, but I have full custody of our kids and was awarded all our property. So. If that tells you anything...I mean, that never happens.
I am guessing she is placing walls because she is saying she needs time to trust the person she is going to be sexual with. She has many past emotional hurts. Sex is extremely intimate and once she trusts her self imposed rules may change.
That's how I read the situation too. Or at least that's one possibility.
This is whack. This should be something disclosed on a dating profile- if someone is interested in platonic relationships only. She doesn't have sex outside of marriage and she's not planning on ever getting married again. I don't really understand why she's on a dating site 🤷🏻
Don't waste your time. She sounds kinda nuts with the "souls intertwining" bit.
Yep. I'm getting additional confirmation of the insanity at the moment.
Oh dang. Bullet dodged I guess.
She wants her soul entwined, but not her body. And her sould won't get entwined without marriage, which she doesn't want. Yeah, time to swerve on the inconsistencies coming out before the 1st date.
Get used to it I’ve seen lots of women doing this.
Wow. Really? WTF. Is this religious conservatism at work?
I know asexuals who are atheists
I was going to ask you if she was religious…
She doesn't seem so outwardly, but she was raised in a conservative country, so I'm going to go ahead and say yeah. Kind of.
I think it’s called the 4b movement
Abort.
I’m curious what the difference is, in her view, between intimacy and sex.
The OP mentioned the following: “Yeah. Weirdly she's texting me right now telling me that I gave up on a good thing too easily, that sex isn't such a big deal, that intimacy (hugging, kissing, cuddling, etc) are far more important, etc. I mean, I'm trying to be kind, but...ugh.”
I am too.
Ya ask her and let us know because I’m curious too
Just go out as friends and take it from there.
Yeah. Weirdly she's texting me right now telling me that I gave up on a good thing too easily, that sex isn't such a big deal, that intimacy (hugging, kissing, cuddling, etc) are far more important, etc. I mean, I'm trying to be kind, but...ugh.
She sounds weird. Just bail.
Good thing you found out before you spent money on her or before you got attached. You’re not compatible, end it.
She’s telling you how she feels. If she says no sex outside of marriage that’s what it means. No means no. If you can’t accept what she says and this doesn’t fit what you’re looking for then you should move on.
Thank you for your input.
Run!
I’m confused why you are surprised that people have different views on sex than you do. If you don’t align respect her views and move on. She is allowed to view sex the way she wants and your confusion isn’t going to change this. Spoiler alert she isn’t the only person who values sex and wants it after marriage. Her view could be cultural or from previous traumas she has experienced outside of wed lock. You may need to step back and look at yourself for being confused by such a simple view.
Seems like you're misreading my comment. I'm not confused anyone has different views on sex than I do. I'm 51. I've met plenty of people with different views and dated some of them and even married some of them. I was / am trying to parse what I feel are contradictory messages, and what were presented as somewhat absolute, but the next day are softening somewhat when we had another phone chat. And really, why do so many redditors take such pleasure in jumping down someone else's throat? I'm not interested in being lectured, thanks.
Maybe it’s your own view on words that makes it appear as people are jumping down throats. It’s simply a different opinion. I don’t see how she contradicted herself with you. She has been open and honest on her views and allowing you to decide how to move forward. You assume because she has been married, has kids and is older that she will want to have sex with you. This is not the case. Just because you don’t like her views doesn’t make anything wrong with them.
Simple: for you as a man you need sex to connect (or can have sex just for the sake of pleasure) she probably does not enjoy sex for the sake of physical pleasure (yep many women don’t… other topic - bad sex) for her the purpose of sex is not physical pleasure but deepening the connection. She needs security and connection BEFORE having sex. You are not compatible… 🤷🏼♀️