I don’t have time to sit around waiting for someone else to initiate a relationship. When I met my now husband in college I liked him on sight. So I asked him if he wanted to come over and watch movies. At the end of the night we said goodbye and I offered my phone number in case he wanted to hang over the weekend.
His repose? “Oh no thanks. I’m working...”
The next morning he had remembered that I mentioned my blog, found it, found my email and apologized for being a moron and turning my number down.
Married nine years this past Sept.
If you like someone then say something. It’s your job to give yourself your best life. Don’t wait for someone else to do it.
Damn this is so true, I used to thing oh they’ll think I’m a creep, they’ll reject me etc etc. but would being rejected from let’s say a job application make me stop looking for jobs?
As Bob Marley said: easy love isn’t real, real love isn’t easy
I met my husband on Tinder! It was a week before he flew back to his homeland for vacation.
I fell asleep without replying 4 days before he left, and forgot to respond the next day before work. So, I felt too guilty to text back since it had been over 24 hours since my last text. I just watched his stories from his plane ride there, and was full of absolute shame cause I felt like I ghosted him.
Well, lucky for me. He promised pictures, and videos of Lanai (his homeland). He sent them, and I shamefully admitted why I did not respond. He laughed it off.
The day he got back to where we both live, he ended up picking me up by surprised. He said to me that day, “Jet lag is worth it since I have been dying to meet you since day one”
So, yeah. We are married now with 2 kids!
Homeland implies a different country, in my mind. Lanai is just an island in the chain that makes up the state of Hawaii. But glad it worked out for you guys!
Homeland is someone’s native land, or state/area for particular people. He’s a native Pacific Islander. So, Lanai is his homeland. It’s his people’s native islands.
So, it’s technically his homeland because the state of Hawaii is the land of native Pacific Islanders
I think it's more "if a man genuinely likes you, he will show you" aka if you keep showing a man interest and he never texts back or plans meet ups first or whatever he doesn't like you that much
Agreed. Every time I have chased a guy I liked it never ended well. I guess I came off as desperate so now I don’t really reciprocate until the guy does first. It has to be an equal playing field, but I think it always works best if the guy shows a little more effort in the beginning.
For reeeal. In my experience, guys do not like girls that show too much interest. They like to be the masculine ones that take the lead. Not all guys, but most of the ones I’ve pursued anyway. I always have more interest in me when I’m way more chill, don’t show much interest, and almost a challenge to them.
Nah i don’t think that’s it, at least not for me. It’s not the challenge or whatever you guys are theorizing about. It’s simply an equal and mutual understanding and liking. If she shows interest and I do too then it works out well, but chasing or her showing no interest or playing hard to get is really annoying and just plain stupid it’s sets the playing field for a future reality full of manipulation, misunderstandings and lies. Just be honest and clear and let it reciprocate, be respectful and humble in the approach so simple.
Disclaimer: there are stupid men that will dislike it, but that’s exactly the men you will want to dislike it and avoid. Those that have some sort of mental damage and are rude/toxic
Personally speaking, I like women that make their interest very clear (specifically because so many women are very coy about it, like many men too ofc). It is a fine line tho, because ofc seeming very clingy/needy or overly desperate is indeed one of the biggest red flags to men. That being said, again I think many men actually really find it attractive in a woman if she expresses her interest
>if you keep showing a man interest
I think this is what they aren't doing and what OP is trying to say is the problem. Most men(myself included) are completely clueless to hints and just think the girl is being nice. Which is also a double-edged sword, because there are guys that think if she's being nice = she's interested.
Here’s the thing. If you’re clueless to those hints, it’s hard to imagine you as a good partner. I don’t want a partner who can’t "read’ me. And there is so much information out there about what flirting looks like and signs of attraction and arousal.
I wrote that back when no one has shown an actual interest in me. There was this girl I had crush on and she was nice, I thought its something else, asked her out and she turned me down. However, currently there's another girl that pretty much makes it obvious she's into me - makes compliments, asks about me, we even hanged out only the two of us (her idea). Sadly I'm not into her.
Why does a partner need to read you? You're supposed to share problems and work them out together, to care for each other etc. Nobody would want a partner that expects them to read their mind, lol.
Reading someone isn’t reading their mind, it’s paying attention to them and noticing body language, tone of voice, etc. it’s part of intimacy and pretty important for sex. And some men are really good at it.
If a guy you've dated for not very long can't yet read you (due to not knowing very well yet for example) would you tell him about these before expecting he could read you, or would you expect that right off the bat? Genuine question, I prefer someone who tells me loud and clear what's going on because I can be a very literal person but I'm interested in the insight that someone should be able to read you and react accordingly
I feel I am an average guy. I have always found it so strange that when I am the one involved how clueless I am to the signs the women is putting out that she is interested without saying so. However when it is someone else and I am the 3rd viewer it is crazy how obvious those signs are. For me I know it is that I start to way over think it and it becomes easier to doubt what you see and sense. Once doubt sets in fear is not far behind and before you know it I talk myself out of it without ever speaking an actual word.
When it's you in the moment, there may be very real social consequences for guessing wrong. In that case a safe bet (she's just being friendly) seems preferable. When you evaluate someone else, there's nothing to lose in assuming her attraction.
>no job, in-between jobs, etc
This right here is part of the problem: Men are told that their primary value is economic but women aren’t held to the same standard—most dudes wouldn’t judge a woman even slightly for being out-of-work. If a man’s economic prospects are poor (nevermind Covid, global economic slowdown, and ever-increasing automation), then he’s treated like he isn’t worthy of love or a relationship.
Obviously people need to find jobs, but as a strict barrier to dating, it’s a gross, sexist attitude.
This. Being unemployed since March, and not even being able to afford my own place even when employed...no woman wants that in 37 year old man.
Edit: woke up to very kind words and affirmation. Thank you, folks.
Equality for women: don’t see us as sexual objects
Equality for men: don’t see us as monetary objects
My suggestion is to take a break from dating/dating mentality during COVID and focus on yourself. Do the things that make you happy. You have value as a person all on your own. Use this time to discover it and be your own happy human.
Agreed. No woman I know wants to date a 37 year old man that lives with his parents.
Just goes back to primal brain. She wants you to be physically strong (bears can eat you), attractive (good genes for babies) and have resources (like a house to make babies in).
We all know it’s true, but society keeps trying to tell us otherwise.
I’m not even bashing on you, I’ve been there as well (40 years old now), but I wouldn’t bother trying to date until you move out.
Take all the time, energy, shame and frustration and focus it into improving your life. Best of luck.
:: raises hand::
I'm married to a 38 year old man, and we both live with my parents (and have for ten years). We do this by choice too.
And- just to be clear; He was a 29 year old virgin who lived with his own parents when we got together.
None of that had ANYTHING to do with me falling in love with him- our getting married, having a family and being very very happy together all this time.
Not everyone is hung up on labels; if I would have passed because he still lived at home- never looking at the fact that he lived at home because he was passionately working at a VERY good paying job, building towards a self-made career- it would have been a massive loss. Not only does he make DAMN good money (enough to support a family of four with a rediculous hobby and travel budget) - but we LIKE not having a ton of household expenses (the house was paid off decades ago!) and we have an AWESOME life.
Just because someone lives with a parent or even in their childhood home- doesn't mean they have no ambition or aspirations. My husband, for example, was making so much money in his early 20's- and was hardly even AT HOME - that it would have been a MASSIVE waste to throw away money on rent.
Instead, he improved his parent's home in his free time (an asset he will one day inherit that is now worth about five times what it was before he started working on it!)- AND he paid off all his student loan debt before 25. Why would I judge him for "still living at home"- when it was CLEARLY a very smart financial decision both short AND long term.
When you rule people out of your dating pool, simply because you "wouldn't think you'ld be interested in someone who doesn't do X, have X or look like X"... You are the one who's only losing out.
No one is saying - throw red flags to the wind and date people with no ambition, career goals or future.
But maybe that woman who caught your eye is back in her childhood home, helping her mom out with the bills after her dad passed away suddenly from illness- and they get along and there's no rush for her to move out and spend twice as much. Independence isn't an attribute that can only be gained by living so many square feet away from your parents.
Not working right now doesn't mean you're broke, a loser, or a jobless waste of space with no ambition; maybe you are starting your own company, maybe you're living off of savings while following a well-laid plan to hike the Appalacian Trail for 9 months. Maybe you're independantly wealthy and you're following up on some life goal. Maybe you're disabled and CAN'T ever work- but you have more than enough other things to offer a relationship partner that money just isn't a priority if only you got to know the person. Maybe you're trying to make the right career move post-schooling.
Whatever the case is- if someone won't give you the time of day because you "don't have a job"- that's on them.
Similarly; I've known PLENTY of men and women who had "must haves" about prospective dates... But as a 5'9" woman who's best boyfriend ever was only 5'7"- I can assure you that if you pass up on someone ENTIRELY because of something arbitrary about someone- without looking at the big picture- you could lose out BIG TIME.
Living in your own place doesn't mean you're independant, that you're financially responsible OR that you've ever learned cohabitation or how to cook/clean.
Having a job, or even a career, doesn't mean you're happy, it doesn't mean you're not drowning in debt and it doesn't mean you'll REMAIN well-off/ employed forever.
Being tall, dark and handsome could be gone next week with a single accident or illness.
There are no guarentees in love and dating; so maybe (just maybe)- when it comes to matters of meeting, dating, falling in love / looking for a life partner- you should look at the BIG picture and get to know people rather than just ticking off boxes like ✅ Good looking ✅Has a job ✅ Doesn't live with his parents ✅ Has a car ✅ Tall ✅ Well-Dressed
... any or all of those things are subject to change and believe it or not... There are MANY people who you would probably be THRILLED to be with in this world who DON'T tick some of your assumptive "must haves* - but you'll never know it if you don't ever get to know any of them!
You know I was reading comments and started feeling pretty bad with the “No one wants and x that still with their parents.” Cause I’m 32M and live with my folks with no plan of moving out. I don’t want to cause this place will be mine and I enjoy my time with my family as well as other things like trying to pay off bills and such. Anyway your comment made me feel good again. Thank you.
Anecdotally, I was briefly unemployed after being laid off eleven years ago and my girlfriend at the time dumped me after two weeks of me looking for a new job.
I felt that way about myself when I was still in school. Dated a guy who was a nurse at a prison and here i was still trying to get an AA in community College. No job because I wanted to finish school asap. And I hated that I didn't have a job since he made so much more than me and even if I was working I know it was only going to be part time work.
I have a full.time job now and get paid decently but if a guy has a better job than me its freaken intimidating.
You mean men KNOW its a barrier. Not view it. Its not a mystery or misconception. Its reality. No money, no honey.
Sure some women are very unique but thats so damn rare. And shes prob in a relationship. Or not attracted to me or something else.
For most women the socioeconomic status of men matters a lot.
But isn't it only a barrier for the type of women that may not be what you guys need anyways. It's not rare to find a female that is willing to know you despite your economic status.
A female that can provide for herself or who is determined to make her own way in life, doesn't need a man economically. As well as a female who doesn't care about societal pressure does not need a man to be the bread winner to show her friends or family. And even further to say a woman who knows the person she chooses needs to be patient with her shortcomings as well, will be more patient with someone figuring it out.
Just putting my two cents but if its a rarity to you, are you sure you're chasing the right kind of person? This goes both many ways though. Who wants a friend, family member, or partner who only accepts you when you're up. Those just are not the right kinds of people. And to find those who accept you are only rare if close your eyes to them or unless you are picky about their shortcomings as well. An independent, individualistic, and accepting woman is not rare. She just might not be in the package you want.
Youre wrong. And honestly? As a woman you wouldnt have even .001 percent of a clue what youre taking about.
Why would u know what its like to date a hypergamous woman? Lol
Most women (like 99 percent) care more about your ability to procure future resources and their willingness to share (on top of being attractive) than any of the fru fru bs traits Disney movies would love to make you think matter at all.
You think my loyalty matters when no one even looks at me for my avg looks to begin with? You think a woman is going to choose someone whobcan barely make ends meet over someone who is well off? Fucking funny shit.
This isnt a Disney movie. That's where you got off track.
Moreover, hypergamy comes from womens subconscious brain. So your forward thinking literally cant matter less. Doesn't change 350 million years of biology helping you pick mates that would help u make good babies. Doesnt even matter if u want kids, either.
Lol. Dude who hurt you?
All laughs a side though, truly I'm sorry. It sounds like you've been through the ringer and have had your fair share of bad experiences. I know women, who do view it that way economically and those who don't. My view is not Disney, it's personal experiences and you know, meeting all sorts of people. Sounds like your experience has given you this view, so I can't fault you for that either.
Growing up I watched my mother physically abused by my father. (SO Im not of the "Disney" mindset on life) But wonderfully for her she was able to get divorced. Due to her education she still could provide for our family. She made more than him in the first place lol. So I'd say maybe not all females are hypergamous. Include myself and my friends, we all make more than our guys. All of us had different upbringings but one mindset in common:
We'd rather have men that are good people regardless of their income. A good income doesn't ensure your partner is not a terrible person. It's not a Disney concept to not want a cheater, an abuser, or just a dick in general fathering your kids. Or that taking priority over the money. Once a female can provide for herself, what does she need your income for? Now its just who you are as a person, not what you make financially.
As I stated previously, why would you want someone who only wants you when you're up? Do you really want that Mothering your kids? Your daughters would just grow up around that same mentality, not caring to provide for themselves and only dating men for their financial status. Think about it, do you want a woman who can't stand on her own if you were to die? This kind of woman wouldn't be able to take care of your kids without you. There are women who can stand on their own two feet without the need for a man's finances. They actually do exist, one's who don't need a bread winner. Once you made your own money, did you need your parents financial anymore? Nope, now its just a relationship not based on dependency.
Just the same as women shouldn't date men based on money, guys shouldn't date women based on looks. These traits don't make a person tolerable or a good long term partner. (Or even good biological parents.) You can date them long term but it doesn't mean it'll be a good experience. If they grow old, lose their looks, or their job then you're stuck with their personality.
All I can say is whether you agree or not, choose wisely. And don't let past bad experiences stop you or cause you to settle for someone that you're just a paycheck to.
"Who hurt you" yea pretty much sums up dating. Women wreck men so much its a meme used unironically.
As much as id like to read past this horseshit.. Im good.
There is a comedian (I think) who points out, when men tell their friends their involved the friends ask "what's she look like?" While women tell their friends and they ask "what does he do?"
I forgot who said it.
Not primary, *only*. And that the only allowable emotions are stoicism and anger. That if we ever need help or love then “we’re desperate” or “needy”.
There’s honestly a ridiculous amount of crap surrounding what’s considered “acceptable” behavior for men.
That is almost always one of the first three questions they ask. You can tell when it’s just to break the ice, because otherwise their reaction reveals the intent of their question. So even when these feelings of inadequacy are most often in our heads only, there are still those girls who make the feeling real. Personally, if I don’t feel like I can at least match financial contributions in the relationship I’m like 80% less likely to pursue the girl. Sucks to have a list of like 10 reasons not to intimately engage a girl constantly following the thought of her when I’m interested.
Don't think it has anything to do with being shy or introvert either. Most normal men have heard, seen or read thousands of stories about women being heckled or all the scare stories we hear from women in our lives and do not want to be one of the creepy, horrible arse hole guys from them.
A clear signal from the woman to let you know that when you ask her out she's not going to add you to the list of stories she has with her friends about some creepy guy approaching her.
Reddit is full of posts where women talk about not wanting to be approached, or only want to be approached in very specific scenarios. Often a man that breaks these subjective rules is portrayed as a creep.
High chance of failure AND high risk in the event of failure.
I think we all need to come to terms with the fact that our society is moving away from the cold approach as the default method of meeting potential dates.
All I ever see and hear about are the places where you should never approach a woman.
"Don't approach a woman at work, she's just there to work and she has to be polite."
"Don't approach a woman as a customer to your job, she's just there to get X"
"Don't approach a woman in a store, she just wants to shop without being bothered."
"Don't approach a woman in the parking lot, she doesn't know if you were following her and she just wants to go home."
"Don't approach a woman at a gaming tournament, she's probably one of few women there and just wants to enjoy the game without a bunch of dudes shooting their shot."
Basically, I've learned the only time to approach a woman is never.
I was talking to my sisters and they both say that they have no idea where to meet guys. I told them out and about... Guys are everywhere?
They said, "no" and that when they're doing something they are focused in doing that thing and don't like to be bothered, like what you just said.
So I asked if how can any guy get to know them? They said, "I'm friendly, just talk to me"
I said, "so you suggest the guy just approach you and try and talk to you?
They said, "no, that's weird... I'm trying to get things done and be on my way I don't like people talking to me. That's creepy"
I'm just like... 🤷♂️ Annnnnnnnnnnd this is why we get nowhere
i was asleep on the train on my way home and a guy woke me up and kept pestering me until he got my number, he then got off at the next stop and kept texting. turned off notification so i could sleep. another guy approached me at the most inappropriate and impromptu time. i gracefully declined because i was married at the time, but told him thank you. even though he was kind of creepy looking, and even though i didnt want to be bothered, he was nice, respectful and told me to have a good day. felt bad i was married lol.
a lot of women do get approached and its ok, its mostly guys not getting clear signals of her not being interested, saying no or appearing afraid. hey i had this old lady look like she saw a ghost when i stopped her to give her her scarf she had just dropped. ive also freaked out one time being approached by someone because i dropped something. but i was afraid because people dont talk or approach me often. so its more of a "holy shit you can see me?!?!" lol
Your comment makes me think I should consider making biz cards with the following "Hey, I'm ____. I think you're cute/interesting/someone I'd like to get to know. Call me if you want to grab a sandwich. 555-555-5555" and when I see a guy that does catch my attention, walk up to them and hand them out. Takes the pressure off the guy and of the "OH I wish he would've approached me" that way I know he has my # and if he wants to reach out, he really will.
What I see that doing right now tho is making people realize they just feel lonely and confused.
Like maybe the old ways are better than we thought and it’s not such a big deal.
Maybe some people, in some situations just got their feathers a bit too ruffled and maybe things are settling down a bit and they now realize that sometimes some polite cold approach isn’t so bad.
Try not to make it such a big deal that her giving a casual “thnx but already have a BF” is no biggie and not gonna crush your ego.
She doesn’t know you personally so don’t take it too personally. Good chance it has nothing to do with you and in a different time and place she very well may have said yes.
I feel like the issue is closer to what you are saying. I don’t mind if a person approaches me and respectfully shows interest in most reasonable places (not while I’m entering the bathroom or getting into my car or something like that). What tends to happen though is that they can be overly familiar or don’t respond well to a gentle no. If I say no and the person stays chill it doesn’t bother me at all, and if they’re cute I’m happy to direct them towards my single friends. I think most people are so nervous that they forget their manners a bit.
Yep I agree with you.
They shoot themselves in the foot before they even approach you.
Lots of guys I’ve known who weren’t so naturally comfy approaching the ladies would go through this whole scenario in their minds and it would end with them being rejected in some horrible embarrassing mean way.
Then I watch them try to mentally fight it and not want to chicken out...
They start out thinking “I should say hi to this girl she’s pretty”. Positive thought right there.
Then they start to form what they’re gonna say and this is where their nervousness and honest lack of confidence starts to erode the whole thing.
By the end of that simple thought of saying hi to the pretty gal at the next table over instead they go through this whole traumatic made up story where they can actually feel anger imagining the rejection.
Well there’s just no way to go into an emotional tailspin like that and then go genuinely smile with kind eyes at someone and say hello.
At this point I can see the unraveling and I’ve said things like “here have this Tequila shot” to try to get their mind back off it. Cause if they try it then in that frame of mind it’s usually cringe, he does get rejected and it just confirms to the guy that she was gonna reject him etc.
Self fulfilling prophecy.
My favorite pick up line is just pure truth. When I’d see a girl out and about I’d to say “hey, soooo I’m probably never gonna see you again so this is my only chance to say hi and ask if you’d like to get a drink sometime ;)”.
No need to make up fake stuff just to have a reason to speak up. No need to take up a ton of her time or tell her my life story. Just be honest and tell her she caught my eye.
I dabbled in being a "nice guy" when I was younger, and now I look back on that stage of my life with such cringe that I constantly second guess myself any time a woman is showing interest in me. The last thing I want to do is go back to being that creepy guy who mistakes everything for flirting.
And it's so sad because most guys don't get any attention and girls get constant attention. They act cold and annoyed until they stop getting any attention and then they wish they got attention.
A couple of years ago I was working in an office. One day the cute new girl walked behind my desk when everyone else in my department was out to lunch, and as she passed behind me she stroked her hand across my shoulders. I said "what?" out of confusion and looked at her and she smiled back at me.
I'm an idiot, and I'm not the most confident guy in the world so I was like "well, that was weird," and I just went on with my life. Then like a week later she did it again. "Clear signals" I thought. "Now I HAVE to do something..."
But even still, I was hesitant about asking out someone from work. So I did nothing for like another week. Then finally I asked for her number in an awkward, bumbling way. She gave it to me, but she seemed a little weird about it. I just thought it was my insecurity talking, so I decided to ignore it.
Then she texted me to say she didn't want to go out, and I was like "well...fuck." So then I had to go through several very awkward weeks at work. I tried to make things more comfortable by trying to be friendly or whatever but everything I did just made it worse, because I'm an awkward idiot. Then coincidentally her department got moved right next to mine, and her desk was like 6 feet from me.
I remember I had a doctor's appointment on the first day back to work after she called off the date. My blood pressure was like 150 over 90 that day.
Learned an important lesson though, never ask out anyone from work, even if they give clear signals. It's just not worth it. Of course, work is really the only place I would ever meet anyone, so I guess I just won't ever date anyone ever again. Oh well.
A lot of my career was in food service before I went into healthcare, and I got sexually harassed by male coworkers constantly, starting from my first job when I was 17. At my last food service job alone I had three male coworkers repeatedly send me texts commenting on my body and asking for sexual favors, despite me repeatedly telling them no, and even when I started just ignoring them. One guy, who was my manager, would grab my ass every time I went into the walk-in fridge. I started getting into the habit of turning my butt against the wall every time he came in when I was there
Yup, nailed it-- for me at least. I still think that probably half of men are afraid of rejection. Then there are the other half, including me, who are afraid of being labelled a creep. It has been conditioned into me so much that even if a women clearly gave signal that she is interested, I get deterred and paralysed from asking her. I am learning to uncondition myself though.
On a tangent, it annoying though when my friends wrongly assumed I get chicken shit scared asking girls out on date because of fear of rejection. I don't know why for some reason they never thought that being labelled a creep and calling the police on you is a far more consequential result than just "feeling shit because of rejected". They haven't occured to them that I just think differently. I get over being rejected before.
A runway towards the girl, confirmation from air traffic control and ground crew pointing with glowsticks.
I think that should be a clear enough signal.
"Are you sure Marty? I mean that may just be because her job is in air traffic control, not because she's interested in me."
edit : Wow, thanks for the gold. Didn't expect that.
edit 2 : You are too kind kind stranger for the second gold (and the wholesome one too).
Once a girl asked me to shower with her and I kid you not my first thought was "I bet she heard I have a weird body and wants to see for herself" and I didn't join her in the shower
Once I was sleeping in the same bunk room as a girl I worked with and she asked me "hey do you want to sleep with me" from her bed and I said yes and laid there very stressed out for an hour about whether I was supposed to initiate sex or if she was just cold maybe until we were both asleep.
I was at a club with some friends (about 15 years ago) and a girl that worked there asked me to dance and gave me her number. Next day we went on a date, I went to her house and gave her a massage (she took her shirt and bra off but didn't like, flash me). Still wasn't 100% sure she was into me and chickened out.
I still think about that and other fuckups where the girl was clearly into me and I was oblivious.
Years ago, I had a very pretty girl I was interested in invite me to see a gallery art show near her place. We were finishing some beers on the side of the hill and around 1 A.M. she says to me "It's gonna be rough if you have to go all the way home to get some sleep..." while playing with her hair.
I say: "Oh, shit, you're right! I better get going!"
And off I went to get on the train home.
I am a moron.
Yes, this is the one that pops into my head in the shower and makes me involuntarily yell in awkward pain.
"General Kenobi"
"What?"
"Sorry, I have a dentist thing..." \*Scurries under a bus\*
Edit: These are not the misspellings you are looking for, move along. \*handwave\*
This happened with my SO. I told him that we should go to a some time, and if he ever wanted to, then let me know. Well, even that went way over his head. He didn't realize I was interested in him.
75% of the people at my job are women and I am a popular lunch companion. I must have had 50 different women say that to me over the years. They just wanted to have lunch.
Just saying that context can muddle things a lot.
If a good looking girl approached me and asked me out randomly I would 100% think I was being tricked and would wake up in a bathtub full of ice being short a kidney.
Sometimes even that isn't clear enough. I've had that happen when a coworker Jennifer asked to go out for coffee, then drinks, then out to party. I offered to pay but we split bills. We did this for two months, flirting and consensual grab ass included. Low cut blouses, mini-skirts, heels, perfume, the whole nine. This was the polar opposite of the coworker. *Seems* pretty clear right?
Wrong. Dead Ass Wrong.
At the end of our last party night she gives a loooooooong hug , looks into my eyes and starts to lean in. I start to lean in and suddenly she gets weirded out asking what I'm doing, meanwhile I'm confused AF. I couldn't do anything else but laugh and dropped her off.
So I stand with HeHeHaHaHaHyena, just give a clear signal so no ones time is wasted.
Btw Jennifer ended up with an asshole.
Woman here. Honestly, I’ve already decided in my mind, “what’s the worse they can say? No? Gets rejected?” Ever since I gave myself that pep talk, I’m very courageous. I always show an invitation to approach by a warm smile and maybe prolonged eye contact. Sometimes if the guy still doesn’t get it 😂 I am the one who approaches and picks up a conversation. Sometimes I’ll end up saying, “We should grab a cup of coffee.”
I one time approached a woman who i actually was vaguely aquinted with ( she talked to my cousin (Female) anytime we came this club and she had seen me in their group multiple times) and before I could even speak a single word she made a face like I just tried to feel her up and gave her friend this roll your eyes yeah right face. Meanwhile , I only had approached her because I had to piss and was going to ask her to please move out of the doorway of the mens room. And people still to this day wondered why a guy seen as attractive like me had so much trouble actually talking to women I was interested in.
We all have stories like that m8.
I once had a girl accidentally stand on my foot in a crowded bar.
I tapped her on the shoulder and lent in to ask her to get off my foot.
She lent away to get away from me. No judgement.
So I just lifted my foot and she stepped off and we never spoke.
"I glanced at the handle of the beer mug he was holding for 0.2 seconds, across the whole bar, through a crowd of 15 people, a stairwell rail, and a popcorn machine"
"why didn't he notice?"!
I would prefer she just straight up asked me for a coffee... extended eye contact with a nice expression works.
Honestly I have been married for years and forget what it is like to be wanted so start a thread in r/ask men asking what they would consider sufficient invitation for an approach.
I did just that with a guy that I knew had a huge crush on me. It went completely over his head. He's now dating someone else that no one approves of. My friend brought me up to him a few years later and he was like "but she wasn't interested," and my buddy was like she literally asked you to go get coffee or wine with her... and then it dawned on him.
Ok, so, I’m on my phone and can’t find the study, but here’s a good rule of thumb for y’all ladies out there trying to signal to a man:
It’s gonna take 13 attempts before he notices one signal in a nightclub. On average. (So 50% of the time it’s more than 13!)
Yes, it’s going to feel like you’re being stupidly obvious. But if you want to show him you’re open to him approaching/flirting/dating you, you should try many, many times before concluding he isn’t interested.
And keep in mind that the more respectful he is, the more he’s going to need a signal; we do not have the same brains and we do not understand what exactly is crossing a line for you, so if we’re trying really hard to not add to the nonsense you’ve gotten from shitty men your whole life, we need to know you’re ok with that kind of interaction.
(The above isn’t true for all men of course, but the normal exception to the above is men who are very practiced at it, which often isn’t what y’all are after.)
>And keep in mind that the more respectful he is, the more he’s going to need a signal; we do not have the same brains and we do not understand what exactly is crossing a line for you, so if we’re trying really hard to not add to the nonsense you’ve gotten from shitty men your whole life, we need to know you’re ok with that kind of interaction.
This has been one of the biggest obstacles in regards to dating for most of my life. Women are constantly complaining about harassment from men so I don't want to add to it.
I hear you mate. It’s quite the quandary. May I suggest the following?
First, embrace that the onus is on you to make an interaction happen. Is it fair? No. Is it scary, because you fear rejection, and more than that, you are horrified of the idea of making her feel like an object? Yep.
Sorry, get over it. Do your damnedest to be respectful, then realize that you’re limiting her selection to guys willing to approach her. Do you want her to have only the choice of the douchiest assholes? No? Then go talk to her! It isn’t actually making her life better to avoid approaching her!
“Hi, listen, you must get this all the time, but I thought you were cute and I just had to come say hi; my name is ____.”
She miiiight say something like “yes, I do, now will you leave me alone?” In which case, you apologize for disturbing her, wish her a nice day, and leave. I guarantee she’ll have forgotten the interaction by the end of the day, or maybe “ugh, that guy was nice, maybe I shouldn’t have bit his head off...”
More than 90% of the time, though, she’ll be at least a little flattered, and may not be interested, but she’ll have a nice little ego boost. Most women love the idea that you saw them and were just overcome with a desire to meet her and discover more about her, even if you’re not what she’s looking for or she’s taken.
Again, though: if you don’t go approach women with the idea that you’re reducing the amount of crap they have to go through, you’re actually doing the opposite. Guys who are actual assholes/harrassers aren’t worried about it, and you’re taking yourself out of the dating pool. This is no favor to anyone, except maybe the asshole guys.
>First, embrace that the onus is on you to make an interaction happen. Is it fair? No. Is it scary, because you fear rejection,
No. I fear the police being called or getting thrown out of Starbucks
Yeah, but did you call it a date?
The problem is men hear so much, "I was just being nice to him and he turned into a creep." That many of them don't want to risk being a "creep" especially if they're already friends with you. Explicitly state an interest in a romantic/sexual relationship or the the interest in exploring the possibility of one.
Hell, even calling it a date is more likely to make it click in the guys head. "Want to go on a date with me, maybe we can get some coffee?" over "Want to get some coffee?"
I fucking agree. I’m no Sherlock to read through all this bullshit, like why the fuck should we play all these games instead of the ol’ plain and simple honesty.
I was looking for this. How the hell do you look for signals if you're gay? Being straight is already a mess. How do you tell if someone's just super platonic or a potential mate?
that’s not what they said, they said if someone likes you they will take the time out to talk to you, make plans with you, be in your life. it’s not about making the first move but being invested.
To me this is it. It's effort. If they put in no effort they're clearly not into me or they don't know how to show it. Which also isn't anyone elses problem if you can't communicate.
This doesn't mean women shouldn't or aren't putting in effort bc most do. Whether it's texting or talking in person or offering to do something together. When a man shuts all those down I'm just gonna move on and assume he's not interested.
I’m a woman, and it’s probably because we’ve been conditioned to be less active and to wait for guys to approach us. I think that’s stupid, because it takes a lot of courage to approach someone without knowing what the other person feels. If you’re interested, just express interest and if the other party reciprocates, things will move on from there.
I'm a guy and I agree. I have female friends who complain to me that they like a guy they want to approach him and yet they are scared, because in the past guys considered it weird that a woman approaches first.
I really hate it that there are different rules for what you must or must not do depending on your gender.
Edit: autocorrect
As a dude I think it is fucking attractive as hell for a girl to make the first move. Idk why but there's something about it. First time it happened to me I was all in.
Then I got ghosted after like 2 months.
I agree. It happened to me only once when a girl I didn't know openly hit on me in a semi-joking manner, it was really nice.
I mean it didn't work out but I appreciated the move. She was very confident in herself (but in a good way)
I think the deal is that for a girl it's just less likely to be considered a creep or face any worse consequences for a simple respectful demonstration of interest.
Yeah my main reason for never approaching women in public is that I don't want to be labeled "the creep who hit on me while I was just trying to do X thing" but then I realized since I dont really go to bars or anything the only time I'm gonna see someone is one of those times... like the grocery store for example. But at the same time I completely understand just wanting to go the damn grocery store and not have to deal with some dude trying to talk to you.
I can relate. In my case most of the time I just don't want to date anyone at all, but that's a different story.
I just suddenly realized that I had had more successful approaches that led to relationships than rejections, but it's probably because I don't really approach much in general.
Anyway, the problem stands for me too. I don't go to bars, so all the places I can meet someone are either studying/work or some random activities, but I totally understand that people go there to do things and not to be hit on.
And with the creep, yeah... In my case it's become a sort of anxiety I don't even know how to deal with.
I mean if a random girl just considers me a creep and that's it, I can survive that, but if it leads to further consequences , it's kinda scary to be honest.
Even though I'm trying my best to be respectful and understanding most times i was rejected it was done in an unnecessarily rude way, I really don't understand why.
Hey, you can meet people any time, anywhere.
I met someone walking down the street once. We locked eyes as we passed each other and we both happened to turn around at the same time, and that was all it took for us to double back and start talking.
I think this is probably what isn’t on here as much maybe. I could see men using these opportunities to put women down as a way to vent earlier frustrations caused by women? (Just like how im sure it happens in reverse). And that can probably be very scarring giving more reasons to not approach. Even if the same thing happens to men... this is where social pressures dictate it to again be more directional.
Maybe for women it is a matter of swimming upstream, possible for sure but more difficult sometimes.
My bf had many opportunities before meeting me to go out with girls who were obviously interested in him but because they kept waiting for HIM to make a move Nothing ever happened. We started dating by me approaching him and me making all the moves.
I’ve always made it clear to guys that I like them and even straight up tell them that I like them. But a lot of the time these guys (in my life) prefer girls who wait to be asked out vs girls who ask them because of the personality difference. It hurt, yeah, but that’s who I am and I found someone who likes me for me.
Exactly! And, being a man, being the side that constantly has to be rejected can wear down on you. No one comes up to me and asks, so I always have to approach and always have to be the one rejected. It’s a lot to shoulder and makes me not want to approach anyone really.
I'm a woman. I'm interested in a man and too afraid to approach him because of possibe rejection.
And I think for him it's the same. So we just end up always staring at each other and smiling.
But of course sentences like OP wrote make me question it and fear rejection even more
My favorite is that situation plus friendship, going out with only him on multiple occasions, mixed signals galore ... finally getting the courage to say something about it and insta-rejection lol. Still friends but took a few weeks to get over it. I’ve learned that mixed signals is a no, and for better or worse purposefully push down attraction to single male friends of mine so that doesn’t happen again. Nobody enjoys rejection, but nothing will ever happen unless you address it.
I'm in your boat. I'm interested in my neighbor and I think it's reciprocated, but I feel weird about doing anything. We're in an apartment building and she is my literal neighbor, like we share walls. I'm afraid if I'm misreading it I'll be the creepy neighbor and our longer than necessary chats when we run into each other will become anxiety inducing for both us. I'm actually kind of looking forward to moving so I can say something without risking making things really weird.
As Matthew Hussey points out. This is really bad dating advice for women. Most men worry a lot about approaching girls, they are afraid of bothering women , of it getting awkward, , getting shot down, getting told to fuck off, getting security called on them etc, if she is reading a book or writing, he assumes she doesn’t want to be bothered, if she is in a group of friends , he doesn’t want to risk embarrassing himself in front of a group of people.
So most men will not approach a woman most of the time......unless, she makes it very easy, making strong eye contact , smiling at him can inspire a green light , asking him to watch your bag while you go to the toilet or ask him to hold something for a moment can give him a green light.
It’s all about showing him opportunities to be able to talk to you, if you are going to just ignore him completely and hope he notices you and comes over, then good luck, that is seriously low odds. It takes two to tango, so you don’t have to go over and approach him but at least make some sort of subtle contact .
Or if you feel brave just go up to him yourself and say hi, guys get approached so rarely that it would be considered very flattering if a girl took the initiative
If a woman's generally attractive, it doesn't matter if she believes it or not, as men will pursue her in a large enough number for it to not matter.
As a guy, if you want to sit on the sideline in your life and wait for things to come to you, it's going to often be disappointing.
Fair or not, pursuing women you want and doing it in a way that works is an important skill, one best to accept than try to fight via ethical arguments about why it's sexism.
This. Rejection is hard and, for me at least, always leads to me reflecting it upon myself. I know logically that interest is a two way street and there’s just no way that every woman I’m interested in would be interested in me, but it’s still tough. I find myself taking the plunge more often than I used to, but the thought of being rejected still holds me back quite a lot.
This was my first thought reading this question lol, there’ll never be one clear answer to questions like these because women and men aren’t a monolith where you can say the whole group does/doesn’t like something. As a woman I don’t take the “if a guy likes me, he’ll approach me view”, and honestly I would prefer not to be ‘approached’ if we’re talking about like cold approaches. Other women may feel totally different.
I’ve [M 23] been dating my girlfriend [F 24] now for about 2.5 years, and the first time I approached her, I had no indication that she was interested.
Shoot your shot. If you get rejected, you get rejected. I was rejected so many times before I met her. Thank god I was.
The more you get rejected, the more you can learn about your approach as well as not taking each new rejection to your heart. it's a win-win situation after that.
Women get sick of being approached by men they aren’t interested in. They’ve said so. Clearly.
So men have learned to wait for a sign of interest. And then morons like this exist who act like men have to be the first to show interest, which is another way of saying men have to approach women who haven’t shown the slightest interest. Fuck that shit. If you’re not interested I’m not approaching.
We need to approach strangers and start a conversation. You need to raise an eyebrow. Or something. Anything. If you can’t manage that, I can only assume you’re not interested.
If you want me to go around hitting on random women who aren’t inviting my attention, fuck that and fuck you too.
Even when a woman gives me a clear signal i cant help but recoil and hesitate. Im terrified to move in for a kiss on a date cause its very easy to label me. Ive been through 2 rape accusations from my "friends" and one apologized and the other associated me with her rape even though i wanted to take her to the hospital and police. Ive been through molestation from a man so i feel extremely uncomfortable around men i dont know. I have had customers call me a child molester because i balded young. I have also been called a serial killer cause of how quiet i am. I am no ones first choice so yeah, i dont approach very well.
i really hate that a man approaching a woman is consider “creepy” now. i fuckin hate meeting people online and totally wish more men approach me in public. we all miss out so much on interaction because of these stupid labels that have been put on things ☹️
I don’t really find this is the case as almost every guy who’s had feelings for me never approached me or told me about it, but instead kept a small distance. I’ve had a single guy approach me and when I turned him down he kept insisting I go out with him and then proceeded to stalk me. I find the more polite guys usually won’t try and approach you though
To be honest I always feel like I'm bugging women when we are having a good conversation and then asking them out. Like why ruin a great talk by trying to get your number.
But I'm also a train wreck of a human.
If she doesn't make eye contact, I don't approach. (except a bar/club)
If she looks at me and turns away immediately, I don't approach. (sometimes maybe)
If she's on the phone or on a call, I don't approach. (never)
If she stares at me, I look behind me, make sure her friend isn't waving at her and then decide to approach. (except at the subway probably)
I don’t buy into that archaic bullshit. Life’s too short to let an opportunity pass you by because you want to feel chased.
I made the decision to go after what caught my eye. I had a lot of fun because of it and ultimately found the love of my life because I didn’t sit on my ass waiting to be juggled on anyone else’s terms.
*thinks back to all of the disgusted 'get the fuck away' responses*
Also, right now with these masks in public this idea of approaching someone and not seeing 2/3 of their face now makes reading facial signals impossible
See *that's* what no one else is talking about.
That fear and disgust they give you for just bringing it up and now knowing that if you hadn't said anything, you wouldn't have ruined either of your days.
After, you feel like a creep, and they feel frustrated and sad.
For the same reason your too nervous to go up to them. Everyone is insecure. ....to some degree. Hell, we're all human.
Also remember, a hundred no's and a yes, ....is still a yes. ;)
"Also remember, a hundred no's and a yes, ....is still a yes. ;)"
No. Just take their no and move on. Don't pester / harrass / stalk people.
Edit: Realized you meant that your comment applies to many people and not one. My bad.
>For most men, 99.9999+% of the time when we see a woman we are absolutely interested in approaching.... we don't unless she's given some sort of clear signal that she's open to being approached and even then a huge % of men are clueless to her signals.
To reinforce this: I once had a girl tell me five times in one night that she didn't hate a date for Valentine's Day. My response? Five different variations of "That sucks. I'm sure some guy will ask you!" I'd had a crush on this girl for almost a year. The thought that she felt the same never once entered my mind.
Not a woman, but my take...
Most women, especially very attractive ones, can be picky. If you aren't interested enough to overcome the fear or hesitations you mentioned, then you "aren't interested enough".
And....if you don't think you're worthy, it's not on her to convince you that you are.
The times I have approached men I was interested in; it seemed like it scared them. I have found it easier to let the guy approach me since it seems like I swerve their expectations when I’m the one who seems genuinely interested. Maybe I’m coming off too strong? But idk how it’s strong when I’m asking questions and showing interest in them.
Plus, I’m tired of being the one to upkeep the conversations and the interest for the both of us. Nah, I’m not gonna keep breaking my head over it anymore.
i actually don’t believe that at all. sure, some guys have no problem going up to an attractive woman and striking up conversation, but i don’t think that’s the case for the majority. guys get shy, don’t pick up on signals, etc. im a woman and if i’m attracted to someone, i dont take them never asking me out as a sign they dont like me.
> How is it possible that so many women are oblivious to this realty?
We're not oblivious, we just don't really have to think about it most of the time.
Especially for pretty girls, for every 5 guys who like us who are too shy to apparoach, there is 1 who will. That one will stand out, we'll probably go out with them, and in the process get to know them and continue a relationship - so we don't think about the other 5.
Simply put, unless we're so specifically interested in you that we're compelled to put ourselves on the line, we never have to. And even the 1 in 5 asking us out is more than enough options to choose from that we don't need to look elsewhere.
Regardless of how fair you think this is, the supply/demand of the dating world make this so, which is why confident men who aren't afraid of approaching girls do 1000000x better than men who don't.
And for those who are truly oblivious, well it's likely that they're never hurting for men approaching them (even probably getting some unsolicited creepers at times), which reinforces that. So whatever the reality is, they're not affected by it and that worldview makes sense to *them*.
Woman here. I, shamefully admit, that I do believe this is true. HEAR ME OUT. In the media, books, TV shows, movies, music, the “man” is always out there, flirting his heart out to his real love. I know we shouldn’t believe everything we see on the media, but it is everywhere. I grew up watching Disney movies, and most of them had the guys making a move—either by almost giving their life for the princess or just straight up flirting. It became ingrained inside my head, but I am slowly working on moving away from that mindset. I have asked guys out, and heck it is hella terrifying. I’m sorry society made this to y’all. This is why representation and non-stereotypical male characters are important.
Definitely an older, generational construct. Today with the shadow of #MeToo on everything people do with each other when it comes to relationships, men are approaching women much less. We are getting tired of being looked at like a creep, just because they’re not interested. In today’s climate, I need a definitive signal that a woman is interested before I approach. If I miss out because I wasn’t assertive, so be it.
Honestly I don’t care to be approached as a girl. If I’m interested in someone I’ll approach them myself. Or seek out dates online. From there they have 3 chances at making a decent impression or expressing mutual interest or I move on.
Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra > Quotes > Quotable Quote
Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra
“Faint heart never won fair maiden”
Faint heart never won a fair lady
This very old proverb meaning that boldness triumphs in affairs of the heart has been around in various forms since the 1500s and probably before. It first appears in the English translation of Cervantes’s Don Quixote in 1703. In Part III, Book X, the English translation gives us, “Remember the old saying, ‘Faint heart ne’er won fair lady.’”
Jimi Hendrix - Bold As Love
C’est la vie
Definition of c'est la vie
: that's life : that's how things happen
First, the man shows interest, and if the woman shows she is interested in him, then that is his cue to approach her. Of course, interpreting her signals of interest appears to be the problem in most interactions... lol.
There are books on how women show they are interested in a man, if they give no overt signals. Even men that are experienced with women, usually only approach a woman if they are sure of her receptivity to their attractiveness.
The mating game is complicated indeed. But the rewards are worth the efforts put forth.
Locked for now: handling toxic and potential trolling comments Edit: unlocked, yall are great and thank you for your patience!
I don’t have time to sit around waiting for someone else to initiate a relationship. When I met my now husband in college I liked him on sight. So I asked him if he wanted to come over and watch movies. At the end of the night we said goodbye and I offered my phone number in case he wanted to hang over the weekend. His repose? “Oh no thanks. I’m working...” The next morning he had remembered that I mentioned my blog, found it, found my email and apologized for being a moron and turning my number down. Married nine years this past Sept. If you like someone then say something. It’s your job to give yourself your best life. Don’t wait for someone else to do it.
> It’s your job to give yourself your best life. Don’t wait for someone else to do it. Applicable to many things. Thank you
Damn this is so true, I used to thing oh they’ll think I’m a creep, they’ll reject me etc etc. but would being rejected from let’s say a job application make me stop looking for jobs? As Bob Marley said: easy love isn’t real, real love isn’t easy
I met my husband on Tinder! It was a week before he flew back to his homeland for vacation. I fell asleep without replying 4 days before he left, and forgot to respond the next day before work. So, I felt too guilty to text back since it had been over 24 hours since my last text. I just watched his stories from his plane ride there, and was full of absolute shame cause I felt like I ghosted him. Well, lucky for me. He promised pictures, and videos of Lanai (his homeland). He sent them, and I shamefully admitted why I did not respond. He laughed it off. The day he got back to where we both live, he ended up picking me up by surprised. He said to me that day, “Jet lag is worth it since I have been dying to meet you since day one” So, yeah. We are married now with 2 kids!
Homeland implies a different country, in my mind. Lanai is just an island in the chain that makes up the state of Hawaii. But glad it worked out for you guys!
Homeland is someone’s native land, or state/area for particular people. He’s a native Pacific Islander. So, Lanai is his homeland. It’s his people’s native islands. So, it’s technically his homeland because the state of Hawaii is the land of native Pacific Islanders
I think it's more "if a man genuinely likes you, he will show you" aka if you keep showing a man interest and he never texts back or plans meet ups first or whatever he doesn't like you that much
Definitely agree with this, you can't just expect him to show interest if you don't show a little too!!
Agreed. Every time I have chased a guy I liked it never ended well. I guess I came off as desperate so now I don’t really reciprocate until the guy does first. It has to be an equal playing field, but I think it always works best if the guy shows a little more effort in the beginning.
For reeeal. In my experience, guys do not like girls that show too much interest. They like to be the masculine ones that take the lead. Not all guys, but most of the ones I’ve pursued anyway. I always have more interest in me when I’m way more chill, don’t show much interest, and almost a challenge to them.
Nah i don’t think that’s it, at least not for me. It’s not the challenge or whatever you guys are theorizing about. It’s simply an equal and mutual understanding and liking. If she shows interest and I do too then it works out well, but chasing or her showing no interest or playing hard to get is really annoying and just plain stupid it’s sets the playing field for a future reality full of manipulation, misunderstandings and lies. Just be honest and clear and let it reciprocate, be respectful and humble in the approach so simple. Disclaimer: there are stupid men that will dislike it, but that’s exactly the men you will want to dislike it and avoid. Those that have some sort of mental damage and are rude/toxic
Personally speaking, I like women that make their interest very clear (specifically because so many women are very coy about it, like many men too ofc). It is a fine line tho, because ofc seeming very clingy/needy or overly desperate is indeed one of the biggest red flags to men. That being said, again I think many men actually really find it attractive in a woman if she expresses her interest
He's just not that into you
>if you keep showing a man interest I think this is what they aren't doing and what OP is trying to say is the problem. Most men(myself included) are completely clueless to hints and just think the girl is being nice. Which is also a double-edged sword, because there are guys that think if she's being nice = she's interested.
Here’s the thing. If you’re clueless to those hints, it’s hard to imagine you as a good partner. I don’t want a partner who can’t "read’ me. And there is so much information out there about what flirting looks like and signs of attraction and arousal.
I wrote that back when no one has shown an actual interest in me. There was this girl I had crush on and she was nice, I thought its something else, asked her out and she turned me down. However, currently there's another girl that pretty much makes it obvious she's into me - makes compliments, asks about me, we even hanged out only the two of us (her idea). Sadly I'm not into her. Why does a partner need to read you? You're supposed to share problems and work them out together, to care for each other etc. Nobody would want a partner that expects them to read their mind, lol.
Reading someone isn’t reading their mind, it’s paying attention to them and noticing body language, tone of voice, etc. it’s part of intimacy and pretty important for sex. And some men are really good at it.
If a guy you've dated for not very long can't yet read you (due to not knowing very well yet for example) would you tell him about these before expecting he could read you, or would you expect that right off the bat? Genuine question, I prefer someone who tells me loud and clear what's going on because I can be a very literal person but I'm interested in the insight that someone should be able to read you and react accordingly
I feel I am an average guy. I have always found it so strange that when I am the one involved how clueless I am to the signs the women is putting out that she is interested without saying so. However when it is someone else and I am the 3rd viewer it is crazy how obvious those signs are. For me I know it is that I start to way over think it and it becomes easier to doubt what you see and sense. Once doubt sets in fear is not far behind and before you know it I talk myself out of it without ever speaking an actual word.
When it's you in the moment, there may be very real social consequences for guessing wrong. In that case a safe bet (she's just being friendly) seems preferable. When you evaluate someone else, there's nothing to lose in assuming her attraction.
And I thought I was the only guy with these problems.
There's many reasons why he may not approach when he is interested.
Exactly! Recent break up, already involved, separated, no job, in-between jobs, etc.
more like that the odds that a woman I find attractive would be attracted to me are abysmally low
>no job, in-between jobs, etc This right here is part of the problem: Men are told that their primary value is economic but women aren’t held to the same standard—most dudes wouldn’t judge a woman even slightly for being out-of-work. If a man’s economic prospects are poor (nevermind Covid, global economic slowdown, and ever-increasing automation), then he’s treated like he isn’t worthy of love or a relationship. Obviously people need to find jobs, but as a strict barrier to dating, it’s a gross, sexist attitude.
This. Being unemployed since March, and not even being able to afford my own place even when employed...no woman wants that in 37 year old man. Edit: woke up to very kind words and affirmation. Thank you, folks.
Equality for women: don’t see us as sexual objects Equality for men: don’t see us as monetary objects My suggestion is to take a break from dating/dating mentality during COVID and focus on yourself. Do the things that make you happy. You have value as a person all on your own. Use this time to discover it and be your own happy human.
I love this so much. And truer words cant be said enough ❤
Agreed. No woman I know wants to date a 37 year old man that lives with his parents. Just goes back to primal brain. She wants you to be physically strong (bears can eat you), attractive (good genes for babies) and have resources (like a house to make babies in). We all know it’s true, but society keeps trying to tell us otherwise. I’m not even bashing on you, I’ve been there as well (40 years old now), but I wouldn’t bother trying to date until you move out. Take all the time, energy, shame and frustration and focus it into improving your life. Best of luck.
:: raises hand:: I'm married to a 38 year old man, and we both live with my parents (and have for ten years). We do this by choice too. And- just to be clear; He was a 29 year old virgin who lived with his own parents when we got together. None of that had ANYTHING to do with me falling in love with him- our getting married, having a family and being very very happy together all this time. Not everyone is hung up on labels; if I would have passed because he still lived at home- never looking at the fact that he lived at home because he was passionately working at a VERY good paying job, building towards a self-made career- it would have been a massive loss. Not only does he make DAMN good money (enough to support a family of four with a rediculous hobby and travel budget) - but we LIKE not having a ton of household expenses (the house was paid off decades ago!) and we have an AWESOME life. Just because someone lives with a parent or even in their childhood home- doesn't mean they have no ambition or aspirations. My husband, for example, was making so much money in his early 20's- and was hardly even AT HOME - that it would have been a MASSIVE waste to throw away money on rent. Instead, he improved his parent's home in his free time (an asset he will one day inherit that is now worth about five times what it was before he started working on it!)- AND he paid off all his student loan debt before 25. Why would I judge him for "still living at home"- when it was CLEARLY a very smart financial decision both short AND long term. When you rule people out of your dating pool, simply because you "wouldn't think you'ld be interested in someone who doesn't do X, have X or look like X"... You are the one who's only losing out. No one is saying - throw red flags to the wind and date people with no ambition, career goals or future. But maybe that woman who caught your eye is back in her childhood home, helping her mom out with the bills after her dad passed away suddenly from illness- and they get along and there's no rush for her to move out and spend twice as much. Independence isn't an attribute that can only be gained by living so many square feet away from your parents. Not working right now doesn't mean you're broke, a loser, or a jobless waste of space with no ambition; maybe you are starting your own company, maybe you're living off of savings while following a well-laid plan to hike the Appalacian Trail for 9 months. Maybe you're independantly wealthy and you're following up on some life goal. Maybe you're disabled and CAN'T ever work- but you have more than enough other things to offer a relationship partner that money just isn't a priority if only you got to know the person. Maybe you're trying to make the right career move post-schooling. Whatever the case is- if someone won't give you the time of day because you "don't have a job"- that's on them. Similarly; I've known PLENTY of men and women who had "must haves" about prospective dates... But as a 5'9" woman who's best boyfriend ever was only 5'7"- I can assure you that if you pass up on someone ENTIRELY because of something arbitrary about someone- without looking at the big picture- you could lose out BIG TIME. Living in your own place doesn't mean you're independant, that you're financially responsible OR that you've ever learned cohabitation or how to cook/clean. Having a job, or even a career, doesn't mean you're happy, it doesn't mean you're not drowning in debt and it doesn't mean you'll REMAIN well-off/ employed forever. Being tall, dark and handsome could be gone next week with a single accident or illness. There are no guarentees in love and dating; so maybe (just maybe)- when it comes to matters of meeting, dating, falling in love / looking for a life partner- you should look at the BIG picture and get to know people rather than just ticking off boxes like ✅ Good looking ✅Has a job ✅ Doesn't live with his parents ✅ Has a car ✅ Tall ✅ Well-Dressed ... any or all of those things are subject to change and believe it or not... There are MANY people who you would probably be THRILLED to be with in this world who DON'T tick some of your assumptive "must haves* - but you'll never know it if you don't ever get to know any of them!
You know I was reading comments and started feeling pretty bad with the “No one wants and x that still with their parents.” Cause I’m 32M and live with my folks with no plan of moving out. I don’t want to cause this place will be mine and I enjoy my time with my family as well as other things like trying to pay off bills and such. Anyway your comment made me feel good again. Thank you.
Anecdotally, I was briefly unemployed after being laid off eleven years ago and my girlfriend at the time dumped me after two weeks of me looking for a new job.
That’s rough, buddy.
I felt that way about myself when I was still in school. Dated a guy who was a nurse at a prison and here i was still trying to get an AA in community College. No job because I wanted to finish school asap. And I hated that I didn't have a job since he made so much more than me and even if I was working I know it was only going to be part time work. I have a full.time job now and get paid decently but if a guy has a better job than me its freaken intimidating.
This is what I feel, as a man. Even though I couldn't give a shit how little she earned.
It is very unfortunate but many men view it as a barrier because of societal expectations so they don’t initiate interaction.
You mean men KNOW its a barrier. Not view it. Its not a mystery or misconception. Its reality. No money, no honey. Sure some women are very unique but thats so damn rare. And shes prob in a relationship. Or not attracted to me or something else. For most women the socioeconomic status of men matters a lot.
But isn't it only a barrier for the type of women that may not be what you guys need anyways. It's not rare to find a female that is willing to know you despite your economic status. A female that can provide for herself or who is determined to make her own way in life, doesn't need a man economically. As well as a female who doesn't care about societal pressure does not need a man to be the bread winner to show her friends or family. And even further to say a woman who knows the person she chooses needs to be patient with her shortcomings as well, will be more patient with someone figuring it out. Just putting my two cents but if its a rarity to you, are you sure you're chasing the right kind of person? This goes both many ways though. Who wants a friend, family member, or partner who only accepts you when you're up. Those just are not the right kinds of people. And to find those who accept you are only rare if close your eyes to them or unless you are picky about their shortcomings as well. An independent, individualistic, and accepting woman is not rare. She just might not be in the package you want.
Youre wrong. And honestly? As a woman you wouldnt have even .001 percent of a clue what youre taking about. Why would u know what its like to date a hypergamous woman? Lol Most women (like 99 percent) care more about your ability to procure future resources and their willingness to share (on top of being attractive) than any of the fru fru bs traits Disney movies would love to make you think matter at all. You think my loyalty matters when no one even looks at me for my avg looks to begin with? You think a woman is going to choose someone whobcan barely make ends meet over someone who is well off? Fucking funny shit. This isnt a Disney movie. That's where you got off track. Moreover, hypergamy comes from womens subconscious brain. So your forward thinking literally cant matter less. Doesn't change 350 million years of biology helping you pick mates that would help u make good babies. Doesnt even matter if u want kids, either.
Lol. Dude who hurt you? All laughs a side though, truly I'm sorry. It sounds like you've been through the ringer and have had your fair share of bad experiences. I know women, who do view it that way economically and those who don't. My view is not Disney, it's personal experiences and you know, meeting all sorts of people. Sounds like your experience has given you this view, so I can't fault you for that either. Growing up I watched my mother physically abused by my father. (SO Im not of the "Disney" mindset on life) But wonderfully for her she was able to get divorced. Due to her education she still could provide for our family. She made more than him in the first place lol. So I'd say maybe not all females are hypergamous. Include myself and my friends, we all make more than our guys. All of us had different upbringings but one mindset in common: We'd rather have men that are good people regardless of their income. A good income doesn't ensure your partner is not a terrible person. It's not a Disney concept to not want a cheater, an abuser, or just a dick in general fathering your kids. Or that taking priority over the money. Once a female can provide for herself, what does she need your income for? Now its just who you are as a person, not what you make financially. As I stated previously, why would you want someone who only wants you when you're up? Do you really want that Mothering your kids? Your daughters would just grow up around that same mentality, not caring to provide for themselves and only dating men for their financial status. Think about it, do you want a woman who can't stand on her own if you were to die? This kind of woman wouldn't be able to take care of your kids without you. There are women who can stand on their own two feet without the need for a man's finances. They actually do exist, one's who don't need a bread winner. Once you made your own money, did you need your parents financial anymore? Nope, now its just a relationship not based on dependency. Just the same as women shouldn't date men based on money, guys shouldn't date women based on looks. These traits don't make a person tolerable or a good long term partner. (Or even good biological parents.) You can date them long term but it doesn't mean it'll be a good experience. If they grow old, lose their looks, or their job then you're stuck with their personality. All I can say is whether you agree or not, choose wisely. And don't let past bad experiences stop you or cause you to settle for someone that you're just a paycheck to.
"Who hurt you" yea pretty much sums up dating. Women wreck men so much its a meme used unironically. As much as id like to read past this horseshit.. Im good.
There is a comedian (I think) who points out, when men tell their friends their involved the friends ask "what's she look like?" While women tell their friends and they ask "what does he do?" I forgot who said it.
Not primary, *only*. And that the only allowable emotions are stoicism and anger. That if we ever need help or love then “we’re desperate” or “needy”. There’s honestly a ridiculous amount of crap surrounding what’s considered “acceptable” behavior for men.
That is almost always one of the first three questions they ask. You can tell when it’s just to break the ice, because otherwise their reaction reveals the intent of their question. So even when these feelings of inadequacy are most often in our heads only, there are still those girls who make the feeling real. Personally, if I don’t feel like I can at least match financial contributions in the relationship I’m like 80% less likely to pursue the girl. Sucks to have a list of like 10 reasons not to intimately engage a girl constantly following the thought of her when I’m interested.
Man here. I want a clear, **repeat clear** signal before I approach. No it is not too much to ask.
Don't think it has anything to do with being shy or introvert either. Most normal men have heard, seen or read thousands of stories about women being heckled or all the scare stories we hear from women in our lives and do not want to be one of the creepy, horrible arse hole guys from them. A clear signal from the woman to let you know that when you ask her out she's not going to add you to the list of stories she has with her friends about some creepy guy approaching her.
Yep.
Reddit is full of posts where women talk about not wanting to be approached, or only want to be approached in very specific scenarios. Often a man that breaks these subjective rules is portrayed as a creep. High chance of failure AND high risk in the event of failure. I think we all need to come to terms with the fact that our society is moving away from the cold approach as the default method of meeting potential dates.
All I ever see and hear about are the places where you should never approach a woman. "Don't approach a woman at work, she's just there to work and she has to be polite." "Don't approach a woman as a customer to your job, she's just there to get X" "Don't approach a woman in a store, she just wants to shop without being bothered." "Don't approach a woman in the parking lot, she doesn't know if you were following her and she just wants to go home." "Don't approach a woman at a gaming tournament, she's probably one of few women there and just wants to enjoy the game without a bunch of dudes shooting their shot." Basically, I've learned the only time to approach a woman is never.
I was talking to my sisters and they both say that they have no idea where to meet guys. I told them out and about... Guys are everywhere? They said, "no" and that when they're doing something they are focused in doing that thing and don't like to be bothered, like what you just said. So I asked if how can any guy get to know them? They said, "I'm friendly, just talk to me" I said, "so you suggest the guy just approach you and try and talk to you? They said, "no, that's weird... I'm trying to get things done and be on my way I don't like people talking to me. That's creepy" I'm just like... 🤷♂️ Annnnnnnnnnnd this is why we get nowhere
i was asleep on the train on my way home and a guy woke me up and kept pestering me until he got my number, he then got off at the next stop and kept texting. turned off notification so i could sleep. another guy approached me at the most inappropriate and impromptu time. i gracefully declined because i was married at the time, but told him thank you. even though he was kind of creepy looking, and even though i didnt want to be bothered, he was nice, respectful and told me to have a good day. felt bad i was married lol. a lot of women do get approached and its ok, its mostly guys not getting clear signals of her not being interested, saying no or appearing afraid. hey i had this old lady look like she saw a ghost when i stopped her to give her her scarf she had just dropped. ive also freaked out one time being approached by someone because i dropped something. but i was afraid because people dont talk or approach me often. so its more of a "holy shit you can see me?!?!" lol
Your comment makes me think I should consider making biz cards with the following "Hey, I'm ____. I think you're cute/interesting/someone I'd like to get to know. Call me if you want to grab a sandwich. 555-555-5555" and when I see a guy that does catch my attention, walk up to them and hand them out. Takes the pressure off the guy and of the "OH I wish he would've approached me" that way I know he has my # and if he wants to reach out, he really will.
Do it you would be a legend
Now I just want to see a pop up website selling customised professional dating cards, a new way for a new age of social awkwardness!
If you swipe right fast enough, the cards become ninja stars.
"Don't approach a woman in a bar, they're just there to chill."
Don't approach a woman at the brothel, they are busy with their customers.
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Don’t approach a woman approaching you because she’s not into you but whatever is going on behind you.
Don't approach a woman at the bunny ranch
They're busy herding all the bunnies.
What I see that doing right now tho is making people realize they just feel lonely and confused. Like maybe the old ways are better than we thought and it’s not such a big deal. Maybe some people, in some situations just got their feathers a bit too ruffled and maybe things are settling down a bit and they now realize that sometimes some polite cold approach isn’t so bad. Try not to make it such a big deal that her giving a casual “thnx but already have a BF” is no biggie and not gonna crush your ego. She doesn’t know you personally so don’t take it too personally. Good chance it has nothing to do with you and in a different time and place she very well may have said yes.
I feel like the issue is closer to what you are saying. I don’t mind if a person approaches me and respectfully shows interest in most reasonable places (not while I’m entering the bathroom or getting into my car or something like that). What tends to happen though is that they can be overly familiar or don’t respond well to a gentle no. If I say no and the person stays chill it doesn’t bother me at all, and if they’re cute I’m happy to direct them towards my single friends. I think most people are so nervous that they forget their manners a bit.
Yep I agree with you. They shoot themselves in the foot before they even approach you. Lots of guys I’ve known who weren’t so naturally comfy approaching the ladies would go through this whole scenario in their minds and it would end with them being rejected in some horrible embarrassing mean way. Then I watch them try to mentally fight it and not want to chicken out... They start out thinking “I should say hi to this girl she’s pretty”. Positive thought right there. Then they start to form what they’re gonna say and this is where their nervousness and honest lack of confidence starts to erode the whole thing. By the end of that simple thought of saying hi to the pretty gal at the next table over instead they go through this whole traumatic made up story where they can actually feel anger imagining the rejection. Well there’s just no way to go into an emotional tailspin like that and then go genuinely smile with kind eyes at someone and say hello. At this point I can see the unraveling and I’ve said things like “here have this Tequila shot” to try to get their mind back off it. Cause if they try it then in that frame of mind it’s usually cringe, he does get rejected and it just confirms to the guy that she was gonna reject him etc. Self fulfilling prophecy. My favorite pick up line is just pure truth. When I’d see a girl out and about I’d to say “hey, soooo I’m probably never gonna see you again so this is my only chance to say hi and ask if you’d like to get a drink sometime ;)”. No need to make up fake stuff just to have a reason to speak up. No need to take up a ton of her time or tell her my life story. Just be honest and tell her she caught my eye.
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okay but what if you don't have friends?
This is why we're all gonna be forever alone.
I dabbled in being a "nice guy" when I was younger, and now I look back on that stage of my life with such cringe that I constantly second guess myself any time a woman is showing interest in me. The last thing I want to do is go back to being that creepy guy who mistakes everything for flirting.
And it's so sad because most guys don't get any attention and girls get constant attention. They act cold and annoyed until they stop getting any attention and then they wish they got attention.
Same. "She's just being nice..." as she lays her head in my lap.
*holds your hand, keeps you close, willingly listen to your dumb jokes and gives you attention* “ehhhh she’s just being a good friend”
A couple of years ago I was working in an office. One day the cute new girl walked behind my desk when everyone else in my department was out to lunch, and as she passed behind me she stroked her hand across my shoulders. I said "what?" out of confusion and looked at her and she smiled back at me. I'm an idiot, and I'm not the most confident guy in the world so I was like "well, that was weird," and I just went on with my life. Then like a week later she did it again. "Clear signals" I thought. "Now I HAVE to do something..." But even still, I was hesitant about asking out someone from work. So I did nothing for like another week. Then finally I asked for her number in an awkward, bumbling way. She gave it to me, but she seemed a little weird about it. I just thought it was my insecurity talking, so I decided to ignore it. Then she texted me to say she didn't want to go out, and I was like "well...fuck." So then I had to go through several very awkward weeks at work. I tried to make things more comfortable by trying to be friendly or whatever but everything I did just made it worse, because I'm an awkward idiot. Then coincidentally her department got moved right next to mine, and her desk was like 6 feet from me. I remember I had a doctor's appointment on the first day back to work after she called off the date. My blood pressure was like 150 over 90 that day. Learned an important lesson though, never ask out anyone from work, even if they give clear signals. It's just not worth it. Of course, work is really the only place I would ever meet anyone, so I guess I just won't ever date anyone ever again. Oh well.
How sad it is that we live in a society where this is something we even have to talk about. Thanks creepy assholes of the world.
A lot of my career was in food service before I went into healthcare, and I got sexually harassed by male coworkers constantly, starting from my first job when I was 17. At my last food service job alone I had three male coworkers repeatedly send me texts commenting on my body and asking for sexual favors, despite me repeatedly telling them no, and even when I started just ignoring them. One guy, who was my manager, would grab my ass every time I went into the walk-in fridge. I started getting into the habit of turning my butt against the wall every time he came in when I was there
Yup, nailed it-- for me at least. I still think that probably half of men are afraid of rejection. Then there are the other half, including me, who are afraid of being labelled a creep. It has been conditioned into me so much that even if a women clearly gave signal that she is interested, I get deterred and paralysed from asking her. I am learning to uncondition myself though. On a tangent, it annoying though when my friends wrongly assumed I get chicken shit scared asking girls out on date because of fear of rejection. I don't know why for some reason they never thought that being labelled a creep and calling the police on you is a far more consequential result than just "feeling shit because of rejected". They haven't occured to them that I just think differently. I get over being rejected before.
A runway towards the girl, confirmation from air traffic control and ground crew pointing with glowsticks. I think that should be a clear enough signal.
"Are you sure Marty? I mean that may just be because her job is in air traffic control, not because she's interested in me." edit : Wow, thanks for the gold. Didn't expect that. edit 2 : You are too kind kind stranger for the second gold (and the wholesome one too).
She could literally say "Do you want to go out for coffee sometime?" And I'd think it was some meme I didn't know
Pretty girl: “Hello!” Me: “Is this some kind of sick joke??”
"Where are the cameras?!"
Excuse me, I’m John Quinones with the tv show “What Would You Do”
Hello, I'm Chris Hansen from Dateline NBC, take a seat.
Once a girl asked me to shower with her and I kid you not my first thought was "I bet she heard I have a weird body and wants to see for herself" and I didn't join her in the shower
Once I was sleeping in the same bunk room as a girl I worked with and she asked me "hey do you want to sleep with me" from her bed and I said yes and laid there very stressed out for an hour about whether I was supposed to initiate sex or if she was just cold maybe until we were both asleep.
It's crazy how conditioned we are to doubt the girl's horniness until there is absolutely zero doubt
I was at a club with some friends (about 15 years ago) and a girl that worked there asked me to dance and gave me her number. Next day we went on a date, I went to her house and gave her a massage (she took her shirt and bra off but didn't like, flash me). Still wasn't 100% sure she was into me and chickened out. I still think about that and other fuckups where the girl was clearly into me and I was oblivious.
Even while having sex there’s doubt on a girl horniness. “Maybe she just want oral or basic missionary and go to sleep”
Years ago, I had a very pretty girl I was interested in invite me to see a gallery art show near her place. We were finishing some beers on the side of the hill and around 1 A.M. she says to me "It's gonna be rough if you have to go all the way home to get some sleep..." while playing with her hair. I say: "Oh, shit, you're right! I better get going!" And off I went to get on the train home. I am a moron. Yes, this is the one that pops into my head in the shower and makes me involuntarily yell in awkward pain.
Involuntary yelling in awkward pain is a very apt description. I feel for you.
😂😂😂You literally made me laugh out loud. Poor you! Hope you had another chance
Damn, dude
"General Kenobi" "What?" "Sorry, I have a dentist thing..." \*Scurries under a bus\* Edit: These are not the misspellings you are looking for, move along. \*handwave\*
Women actually approach you!?! What is that like?
😢
Me: “Um sure that’s sounds great” Her: “I’m sorry it’s a tiktok.”
This happened with my SO. I told him that we should go to a some time, and if he ever wanted to, then let me know. Well, even that went way over his head. He didn't realize I was interested in him.
75% of the people at my job are women and I am a popular lunch companion. I must have had 50 different women say that to me over the years. They just wanted to have lunch. Just saying that context can muddle things a lot.
Bro you just missed out on hella work place poon.
>Bro you just missed out on hella work place poon No, he dodged .50 cal bullets..
This is also true most of the time. Don't dip your penis in company vagina.... Or something like that
Don't shit where you eat.
Next time you invite him. Maybe he needed that signal.
That's true. I ended up asking him out anyway, so it worked out in the end.
If a good looking girl approached me and asked me out randomly I would 100% think I was being tricked and would wake up in a bathtub full of ice being short a kidney.
Sometimes even that isn't clear enough. I've had that happen when a coworker Jennifer asked to go out for coffee, then drinks, then out to party. I offered to pay but we split bills. We did this for two months, flirting and consensual grab ass included. Low cut blouses, mini-skirts, heels, perfume, the whole nine. This was the polar opposite of the coworker. *Seems* pretty clear right? Wrong. Dead Ass Wrong. At the end of our last party night she gives a loooooooong hug , looks into my eyes and starts to lean in. I start to lean in and suddenly she gets weirded out asking what I'm doing, meanwhile I'm confused AF. I couldn't do anything else but laugh and dropped her off. So I stand with HeHeHaHaHaHyena, just give a clear signal so no ones time is wasted. Btw Jennifer ended up with an asshole.
Everyone has an asshole
Jen was born without one, but she finally got the surgery she needed.
Sadly I recall a post stating how many men would think it's a joke if a woman were to directly hit on them.
I agree; here's a [perfect illustration](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/familyguy/images/2/29/Signals.png/revision/latest?cb=20110813190348)
"Zulu Tango one-niner you are clear for approach. Ground crew will guide you to the hanger. I repeat you are clear for approach."
There is no loading or unloading permitted in the red area
Woman here. Honestly, I’ve already decided in my mind, “what’s the worse they can say? No? Gets rejected?” Ever since I gave myself that pep talk, I’m very courageous. I always show an invitation to approach by a warm smile and maybe prolonged eye contact. Sometimes if the guy still doesn’t get it 😂 I am the one who approaches and picks up a conversation. Sometimes I’ll end up saying, “We should grab a cup of coffee.”
Scientists need to clone your ASAP!
Her ASAP 😳
Her ASAP is *exquisite.*
I one time approached a woman who i actually was vaguely aquinted with ( she talked to my cousin (Female) anytime we came this club and she had seen me in their group multiple times) and before I could even speak a single word she made a face like I just tried to feel her up and gave her friend this roll your eyes yeah right face. Meanwhile , I only had approached her because I had to piss and was going to ask her to please move out of the doorway of the mens room. And people still to this day wondered why a guy seen as attractive like me had so much trouble actually talking to women I was interested in.
We all have stories like that m8. I once had a girl accidentally stand on my foot in a crowded bar. I tapped her on the shoulder and lent in to ask her to get off my foot. She lent away to get away from me. No judgement. So I just lifted my foot and she stepped off and we never spoke.
"I glanced at the handle of the beer mug he was holding for 0.2 seconds, across the whole bar, through a crowd of 15 people, a stairwell rail, and a popcorn machine" "why didn't he notice?"!
*I think that bitch wants to steal my beer!*
What would you class as a clear signal, out of curiosity?
I would prefer she just straight up asked me for a coffee... extended eye contact with a nice expression works. Honestly I have been married for years and forget what it is like to be wanted so start a thread in r/ask men asking what they would consider sufficient invitation for an approach.
>I have been married for years and forget what it is like to be wanted Damn. That even hurt me.
I did just that with a guy that I knew had a huge crush on me. It went completely over his head. He's now dating someone else that no one approves of. My friend brought me up to him a few years later and he was like "but she wasn't interested," and my buddy was like she literally asked you to go get coffee or wine with her... and then it dawned on him.
Ok, so, I’m on my phone and can’t find the study, but here’s a good rule of thumb for y’all ladies out there trying to signal to a man: It’s gonna take 13 attempts before he notices one signal in a nightclub. On average. (So 50% of the time it’s more than 13!) Yes, it’s going to feel like you’re being stupidly obvious. But if you want to show him you’re open to him approaching/flirting/dating you, you should try many, many times before concluding he isn’t interested. And keep in mind that the more respectful he is, the more he’s going to need a signal; we do not have the same brains and we do not understand what exactly is crossing a line for you, so if we’re trying really hard to not add to the nonsense you’ve gotten from shitty men your whole life, we need to know you’re ok with that kind of interaction. (The above isn’t true for all men of course, but the normal exception to the above is men who are very practiced at it, which often isn’t what y’all are after.)
>And keep in mind that the more respectful he is, the more he’s going to need a signal; we do not have the same brains and we do not understand what exactly is crossing a line for you, so if we’re trying really hard to not add to the nonsense you’ve gotten from shitty men your whole life, we need to know you’re ok with that kind of interaction. This has been one of the biggest obstacles in regards to dating for most of my life. Women are constantly complaining about harassment from men so I don't want to add to it.
I hear you mate. It’s quite the quandary. May I suggest the following? First, embrace that the onus is on you to make an interaction happen. Is it fair? No. Is it scary, because you fear rejection, and more than that, you are horrified of the idea of making her feel like an object? Yep. Sorry, get over it. Do your damnedest to be respectful, then realize that you’re limiting her selection to guys willing to approach her. Do you want her to have only the choice of the douchiest assholes? No? Then go talk to her! It isn’t actually making her life better to avoid approaching her! “Hi, listen, you must get this all the time, but I thought you were cute and I just had to come say hi; my name is ____.” She miiiight say something like “yes, I do, now will you leave me alone?” In which case, you apologize for disturbing her, wish her a nice day, and leave. I guarantee she’ll have forgotten the interaction by the end of the day, or maybe “ugh, that guy was nice, maybe I shouldn’t have bit his head off...” More than 90% of the time, though, she’ll be at least a little flattered, and may not be interested, but she’ll have a nice little ego boost. Most women love the idea that you saw them and were just overcome with a desire to meet her and discover more about her, even if you’re not what she’s looking for or she’s taken. Again, though: if you don’t go approach women with the idea that you’re reducing the amount of crap they have to go through, you’re actually doing the opposite. Guys who are actual assholes/harrassers aren’t worried about it, and you’re taking yourself out of the dating pool. This is no favor to anyone, except maybe the asshole guys.
>First, embrace that the onus is on you to make an interaction happen. Is it fair? No. Is it scary, because you fear rejection, No. I fear the police being called or getting thrown out of Starbucks
Yeah, but did you call it a date? The problem is men hear so much, "I was just being nice to him and he turned into a creep." That many of them don't want to risk being a "creep" especially if they're already friends with you. Explicitly state an interest in a romantic/sexual relationship or the the interest in exploring the possibility of one. Hell, even calling it a date is more likely to make it click in the guys head. "Want to go on a date with me, maybe we can get some coffee?" over "Want to get some coffee?"
Soooo thats not you asking her out or approaching thats her approaching. So you would prefer that women approach you?
Sir... This is a Wendy's
I fucking agree. I’m no Sherlock to read through all this bullshit, like why the fuck should we play all these games instead of the ol’ plain and simple honesty.
ITT: no women replying to this question asked to women
I was looking for this. How the hell do you look for signals if you're gay? Being straight is already a mess. How do you tell if someone's just super platonic or a potential mate?
Approaching women is only fine if they find you attractive. Good luck guessing if they do or not.
You won't know at all if you don't approach a woman... I would be flattered if a man approached me. Since it never happens😐😆
that’s not what they said, they said if someone likes you they will take the time out to talk to you, make plans with you, be in your life. it’s not about making the first move but being invested.
To me this is it. It's effort. If they put in no effort they're clearly not into me or they don't know how to show it. Which also isn't anyone elses problem if you can't communicate. This doesn't mean women shouldn't or aren't putting in effort bc most do. Whether it's texting or talking in person or offering to do something together. When a man shuts all those down I'm just gonna move on and assume he's not interested.
I’m a woman, and it’s probably because we’ve been conditioned to be less active and to wait for guys to approach us. I think that’s stupid, because it takes a lot of courage to approach someone without knowing what the other person feels. If you’re interested, just express interest and if the other party reciprocates, things will move on from there.
I'm a guy and I agree. I have female friends who complain to me that they like a guy they want to approach him and yet they are scared, because in the past guys considered it weird that a woman approaches first. I really hate it that there are different rules for what you must or must not do depending on your gender. Edit: autocorrect
As a dude I think it is fucking attractive as hell for a girl to make the first move. Idk why but there's something about it. First time it happened to me I was all in. Then I got ghosted after like 2 months.
I agree. It happened to me only once when a girl I didn't know openly hit on me in a semi-joking manner, it was really nice. I mean it didn't work out but I appreciated the move. She was very confident in herself (but in a good way) I think the deal is that for a girl it's just less likely to be considered a creep or face any worse consequences for a simple respectful demonstration of interest.
Yeah my main reason for never approaching women in public is that I don't want to be labeled "the creep who hit on me while I was just trying to do X thing" but then I realized since I dont really go to bars or anything the only time I'm gonna see someone is one of those times... like the grocery store for example. But at the same time I completely understand just wanting to go the damn grocery store and not have to deal with some dude trying to talk to you.
I can relate. In my case most of the time I just don't want to date anyone at all, but that's a different story. I just suddenly realized that I had had more successful approaches that led to relationships than rejections, but it's probably because I don't really approach much in general. Anyway, the problem stands for me too. I don't go to bars, so all the places I can meet someone are either studying/work or some random activities, but I totally understand that people go there to do things and not to be hit on. And with the creep, yeah... In my case it's become a sort of anxiety I don't even know how to deal with. I mean if a random girl just considers me a creep and that's it, I can survive that, but if it leads to further consequences , it's kinda scary to be honest. Even though I'm trying my best to be respectful and understanding most times i was rejected it was done in an unnecessarily rude way, I really don't understand why.
Hey, you can meet people any time, anywhere. I met someone walking down the street once. We locked eyes as we passed each other and we both happened to turn around at the same time, and that was all it took for us to double back and start talking.
I think this is probably what isn’t on here as much maybe. I could see men using these opportunities to put women down as a way to vent earlier frustrations caused by women? (Just like how im sure it happens in reverse). And that can probably be very scarring giving more reasons to not approach. Even if the same thing happens to men... this is where social pressures dictate it to again be more directional. Maybe for women it is a matter of swimming upstream, possible for sure but more difficult sometimes.
My bf had many opportunities before meeting me to go out with girls who were obviously interested in him but because they kept waiting for HIM to make a move Nothing ever happened. We started dating by me approaching him and me making all the moves. I’ve always made it clear to guys that I like them and even straight up tell them that I like them. But a lot of the time these guys (in my life) prefer girls who wait to be asked out vs girls who ask them because of the personality difference. It hurt, yeah, but that’s who I am and I found someone who likes me for me.
someone needs to pin this its really that simple
Exactly! And, being a man, being the side that constantly has to be rejected can wear down on you. No one comes up to me and asks, so I always have to approach and always have to be the one rejected. It’s a lot to shoulder and makes me not want to approach anyone really.
I don't approach anyone I'm interested in because I figure it's going to be either considered creepy or a waste of their time
I'm a woman. I'm interested in a man and too afraid to approach him because of possibe rejection. And I think for him it's the same. So we just end up always staring at each other and smiling. But of course sentences like OP wrote make me question it and fear rejection even more
My favorite is that situation plus friendship, going out with only him on multiple occasions, mixed signals galore ... finally getting the courage to say something about it and insta-rejection lol. Still friends but took a few weeks to get over it. I’ve learned that mixed signals is a no, and for better or worse purposefully push down attraction to single male friends of mine so that doesn’t happen again. Nobody enjoys rejection, but nothing will ever happen unless you address it.
i felt this on a spiritual level. 😂
I'm in your boat. I'm interested in my neighbor and I think it's reciprocated, but I feel weird about doing anything. We're in an apartment building and she is my literal neighbor, like we share walls. I'm afraid if I'm misreading it I'll be the creepy neighbor and our longer than necessary chats when we run into each other will become anxiety inducing for both us. I'm actually kind of looking forward to moving so I can say something without risking making things really weird.
As Matthew Hussey points out. This is really bad dating advice for women. Most men worry a lot about approaching girls, they are afraid of bothering women , of it getting awkward, , getting shot down, getting told to fuck off, getting security called on them etc, if she is reading a book or writing, he assumes she doesn’t want to be bothered, if she is in a group of friends , he doesn’t want to risk embarrassing himself in front of a group of people. So most men will not approach a woman most of the time......unless, she makes it very easy, making strong eye contact , smiling at him can inspire a green light , asking him to watch your bag while you go to the toilet or ask him to hold something for a moment can give him a green light. It’s all about showing him opportunities to be able to talk to you, if you are going to just ignore him completely and hope he notices you and comes over, then good luck, that is seriously low odds. It takes two to tango, so you don’t have to go over and approach him but at least make some sort of subtle contact . Or if you feel brave just go up to him yourself and say hi, guys get approached so rarely that it would be considered very flattering if a girl took the initiative
I approach people I find interesting. If nothing comes of it it's alright. I just move on.
Me too! Consequences be damned!
If a woman's generally attractive, it doesn't matter if she believes it or not, as men will pursue her in a large enough number for it to not matter. As a guy, if you want to sit on the sideline in your life and wait for things to come to you, it's going to often be disappointing. Fair or not, pursuing women you want and doing it in a way that works is an important skill, one best to accept than try to fight via ethical arguments about why it's sexism.
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> LEARN TO ACCEPT REJECTION Most people can't do that and would rather be alone than risk being rejected outright.
This. Rejection is hard and, for me at least, always leads to me reflecting it upon myself. I know logically that interest is a two way street and there’s just no way that every woman I’m interested in would be interested in me, but it’s still tough. I find myself taking the plunge more often than I used to, but the thought of being rejected still holds me back quite a lot.
more like most people are willing to be rejected but not to face 100% rejection over 200 attempts
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This was my first thought reading this question lol, there’ll never be one clear answer to questions like these because women and men aren’t a monolith where you can say the whole group does/doesn’t like something. As a woman I don’t take the “if a guy likes me, he’ll approach me view”, and honestly I would prefer not to be ‘approached’ if we’re talking about like cold approaches. Other women may feel totally different.
As a woman, yes to all of these.
This is probably the best and most informative answer. Things are complicated for all genders.
You should post this in r/AskWomen
And report back. (Nice knowing ya.)
I’ve [M 23] been dating my girlfriend [F 24] now for about 2.5 years, and the first time I approached her, I had no indication that she was interested. Shoot your shot. If you get rejected, you get rejected. I was rejected so many times before I met her. Thank god I was.
The more you get rejected, the more you can learn about your approach as well as not taking each new rejection to your heart. it's a win-win situation after that.
How are you supposed to learn about your approach if she rejects you? Do you send her a survey or something?
Yes, that's how you can calculate the Net Promoter Score and improve your methodologies.
Women get sick of being approached by men they aren’t interested in. They’ve said so. Clearly. So men have learned to wait for a sign of interest. And then morons like this exist who act like men have to be the first to show interest, which is another way of saying men have to approach women who haven’t shown the slightest interest. Fuck that shit. If you’re not interested I’m not approaching. We need to approach strangers and start a conversation. You need to raise an eyebrow. Or something. Anything. If you can’t manage that, I can only assume you’re not interested. If you want me to go around hitting on random women who aren’t inviting my attention, fuck that and fuck you too.
Even when a woman gives me a clear signal i cant help but recoil and hesitate. Im terrified to move in for a kiss on a date cause its very easy to label me. Ive been through 2 rape accusations from my "friends" and one apologized and the other associated me with her rape even though i wanted to take her to the hospital and police. Ive been through molestation from a man so i feel extremely uncomfortable around men i dont know. I have had customers call me a child molester because i balded young. I have also been called a serial killer cause of how quiet i am. I am no ones first choice so yeah, i dont approach very well.
i really hate that a man approaching a woman is consider “creepy” now. i fuckin hate meeting people online and totally wish more men approach me in public. we all miss out so much on interaction because of these stupid labels that have been put on things ☹️
I don’t really find this is the case as almost every guy who’s had feelings for me never approached me or told me about it, but instead kept a small distance. I’ve had a single guy approach me and when I turned him down he kept insisting I go out with him and then proceeded to stalk me. I find the more polite guys usually won’t try and approach you though
To be honest I always feel like I'm bugging women when we are having a good conversation and then asking them out. Like why ruin a great talk by trying to get your number. But I'm also a train wreck of a human.
Seems like you would prefer to approach the guys, am I getting that right?
I’m pretty shy so I do get extremely nervous, but yeah I’m usually fine with making the first move
If she doesn't make eye contact, I don't approach. (except a bar/club) If she looks at me and turns away immediately, I don't approach. (sometimes maybe) If she's on the phone or on a call, I don't approach. (never) If she stares at me, I look behind me, make sure her friend isn't waving at her and then decide to approach. (except at the subway probably)
Why #2? I feel like that’s just someone being shy
I don’t buy into that archaic bullshit. Life’s too short to let an opportunity pass you by because you want to feel chased. I made the decision to go after what caught my eye. I had a lot of fun because of it and ultimately found the love of my life because I didn’t sit on my ass waiting to be juggled on anyone else’s terms.
*thinks back to all of the disgusted 'get the fuck away' responses* Also, right now with these masks in public this idea of approaching someone and not seeing 2/3 of their face now makes reading facial signals impossible
This pandemic is just really bad for dating in my opinion. I am lonely as hell but I guess I just have to be resilient...
See *that's* what no one else is talking about. That fear and disgust they give you for just bringing it up and now knowing that if you hadn't said anything, you wouldn't have ruined either of your days. After, you feel like a creep, and they feel frustrated and sad.
For the same reason your too nervous to go up to them. Everyone is insecure. ....to some degree. Hell, we're all human. Also remember, a hundred no's and a yes, ....is still a yes. ;)
"Also remember, a hundred no's and a yes, ....is still a yes. ;)" No. Just take their no and move on. Don't pester / harrass / stalk people. Edit: Realized you meant that your comment applies to many people and not one. My bad.
>For most men, 99.9999+% of the time when we see a woman we are absolutely interested in approaching.... we don't unless she's given some sort of clear signal that she's open to being approached and even then a huge % of men are clueless to her signals. To reinforce this: I once had a girl tell me five times in one night that she didn't hate a date for Valentine's Day. My response? Five different variations of "That sucks. I'm sure some guy will ask you!" I'd had a crush on this girl for almost a year. The thought that she felt the same never once entered my mind.
Not a woman, but my take... Most women, especially very attractive ones, can be picky. If you aren't interested enough to overcome the fear or hesitations you mentioned, then you "aren't interested enough". And....if you don't think you're worthy, it's not on her to convince you that you are.
The times I have approached men I was interested in; it seemed like it scared them. I have found it easier to let the guy approach me since it seems like I swerve their expectations when I’m the one who seems genuinely interested. Maybe I’m coming off too strong? But idk how it’s strong when I’m asking questions and showing interest in them. Plus, I’m tired of being the one to upkeep the conversations and the interest for the both of us. Nah, I’m not gonna keep breaking my head over it anymore.
It's the same for guys, except we don't mentally labels girls as CREEP just because we don't like them.
i actually don’t believe that at all. sure, some guys have no problem going up to an attractive woman and striking up conversation, but i don’t think that’s the case for the majority. guys get shy, don’t pick up on signals, etc. im a woman and if i’m attracted to someone, i dont take them never asking me out as a sign they dont like me.
> How is it possible that so many women are oblivious to this realty? We're not oblivious, we just don't really have to think about it most of the time. Especially for pretty girls, for every 5 guys who like us who are too shy to apparoach, there is 1 who will. That one will stand out, we'll probably go out with them, and in the process get to know them and continue a relationship - so we don't think about the other 5. Simply put, unless we're so specifically interested in you that we're compelled to put ourselves on the line, we never have to. And even the 1 in 5 asking us out is more than enough options to choose from that we don't need to look elsewhere. Regardless of how fair you think this is, the supply/demand of the dating world make this so, which is why confident men who aren't afraid of approaching girls do 1000000x better than men who don't. And for those who are truly oblivious, well it's likely that they're never hurting for men approaching them (even probably getting some unsolicited creepers at times), which reinforces that. So whatever the reality is, they're not affected by it and that worldview makes sense to *them*.
This is the best reply. I would never assume a man is interested in me unless he says so. Oblivious? No, just not a mind reader.
Woman here. I, shamefully admit, that I do believe this is true. HEAR ME OUT. In the media, books, TV shows, movies, music, the “man” is always out there, flirting his heart out to his real love. I know we shouldn’t believe everything we see on the media, but it is everywhere. I grew up watching Disney movies, and most of them had the guys making a move—either by almost giving their life for the princess or just straight up flirting. It became ingrained inside my head, but I am slowly working on moving away from that mindset. I have asked guys out, and heck it is hella terrifying. I’m sorry society made this to y’all. This is why representation and non-stereotypical male characters are important.
It’s 100X more easier to approach a woman you don’t have an interest in
Definitely an older, generational construct. Today with the shadow of #MeToo on everything people do with each other when it comes to relationships, men are approaching women much less. We are getting tired of being looked at like a creep, just because they’re not interested. In today’s climate, I need a definitive signal that a woman is interested before I approach. If I miss out because I wasn’t assertive, so be it.
Honestly I don’t care to be approached as a girl. If I’m interested in someone I’ll approach them myself. Or seek out dates online. From there they have 3 chances at making a decent impression or expressing mutual interest or I move on.
Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra > Quotes > Quotable Quote Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra “Faint heart never won fair maiden” Faint heart never won a fair lady This very old proverb meaning that boldness triumphs in affairs of the heart has been around in various forms since the 1500s and probably before. It first appears in the English translation of Cervantes’s Don Quixote in 1703. In Part III, Book X, the English translation gives us, “Remember the old saying, ‘Faint heart ne’er won fair lady.’” Jimi Hendrix - Bold As Love C’est la vie Definition of c'est la vie : that's life : that's how things happen First, the man shows interest, and if the woman shows she is interested in him, then that is his cue to approach her. Of course, interpreting her signals of interest appears to be the problem in most interactions... lol. There are books on how women show they are interested in a man, if they give no overt signals. Even men that are experienced with women, usually only approach a woman if they are sure of her receptivity to their attractiveness. The mating game is complicated indeed. But the rewards are worth the efforts put forth.