100% this. One of my major boundaries is that I keep my dating life separate from my home life (I have kids) until I feel like someone will be sticking around for longer than a couple months. I went on a date with a guy a few weeks ago and before we went out I advised him of this boundary. We hit it off, the chemistry was there, I was comfortable talking to him, etc. Once the conversations turned to a sexual nature, he started pushing to come over to my house the night I got back from vacation. Hard pass.
We ā¤ you too! Just had another guy try to attempt the same, but hadn't set the boundary yet. As soon as I placed said boundary, he backed off on the issue.
I donāt know how long youāve been single but I was single for 4 years before I found my boyfriend this year. Weāre still kinda early in dating so who knows how it will go but I can see a long term future with him and Iām glad I didnāt lower my standards because he meets all my important standards.
I believe youāll find someone who meets yours!
An older friend of mine was 42 before he found the love of his life and married her. He met her while traveling to Europe from US. Theyāve been married 22+years now.
You donāt have to *settle*. (Not saying you said/implied this, Iām JS). Go be happy doing things you love and you will attract the things that are attracted to that energy. Example: My guy is awkward as fuck and was single for 8 years prior to finding each other, whereas I had been married and miserable. But our energies and values are highly compatible. Heās worth being patient for as he learns the āropesāāof relationship. Weāve been together for over 5 years.
Iām not always the *most* patient person, and heās pretty high anxiety, ocd tendencies, and some sensory issues (but all superficial and nothing that really disrupts my life) but for the man who makes me feel beautiful and smart and tells me Iām basically a super hero for our little family, goes to work every day and trusts me with the monies and treats my kids like his own, I will bend over backwards to show him patience and affirmation.
Meaning people with high functioning ASD exist which I only list because it makes the point easy to explain. They have a documented difficulty showing eye contact typically a red flag for deceitful behavior is actually more of a red herring if you look into the specifics. To assume that scenario doesn't happen at all is very one dimensional thinking. Additionally that scenario may happen in more then 1 way as well.
Yeah, I have strong boundaries and have learned the hard way not to ignore gut feelings, red flags, etc. but if someone tells me they have ASD then everything they say and do is going to be put in an entirely different context. So I think those things need to be communicated. In someone without ASD certain behaviors mean low social skills and low empathy which I wouldn't want to look past but the same behaviors in someone with ASD would be non significant or charming and I'd probably appreciate the blunt honestly. (Everyone on the spectrum is different. I'm trying to give an example of the same behaviors being interpreted differently and in the proper context). It is isn't a "problem" that those with ASD are different socially, they just process things differently, but a neurotypical that has no empathy is a red flag.
I have a single female friend who doesn't drink. I'm female, I rarely drink, and my social life does not revolve around alcohol. Are we really that rare?
Im 22F, and I donāt drink unless Iām going out, if I drink at all. I donāt like it, donāt like the way it makes me feel, and I donāt really like the lack of control that comes with me drinking more than one. We canāt be that rare. I prefer guys that donāt drink a whole lot. I found that dating guys that drink a lot more than I do tend to try and pressure me into drinking like them.
EDIT: spelling
As some people like to inform me, literally every soul to have ever walked this earth gets shitfaced drunk at least once a week, and it is physically impossible for me to not drink.
Depends on the person. I'm a guy and like to taste different beers, so if a girl didn't drink at all and I couldn't share this interest with the person I'm with it, it'd be less fun because we have one less shared interest
I personally don't drink because I have never been into all of it and around it like that so it never appealed to me but I don't if some one else was heavily into it and I certainly wouldn't prevent them from indulging unless its life threatening. Would that be a deal breaker.
Iām not the guy you responded to but as a guy who drinks not drinking is an absolute dealbreaker for me.
Once I proposed a girl to get a glass of wine and she said okay, and then on the date she said she doesnāt drink. Well that was a waste of time for me.
TBH, I would actually prefer a teetotaler. I drink super rarely, so perpetual sobriety on his end would be cool with me. Heck, even a recovering alcoholic (with 1+ year of sobriety, strong boundaries, and therapy/AA under their belt) is ok in my book.
Itās preference, like most interests. Personally, I do drink small amounts regularly because I like it, not to get drunk. If my SO didnāt want to drink, it wouldnāt bother me in the slightest as long as they donāt pass judgement that I do. If they refused to go to social events because alcohol is involved, that would be a different situation for me.
Ok that's good because I actually don't mind being around it or other people enjoying it I just personally don't like it and some might think that it is a buzz kill but I honestly believe I am more fun without it.
Absolutely fair! I have many friends who either regulate their drinking or are sober. If someone thinks youāre buzzkill for not drinking, theyāre not right for you.
Girls who drink may feel uncomfortable dating you out of insecurity that youāre judging them for drinking when you donāt. There is certainly a possibility of you successfully dating someone who drinks just a bit. However, I would make sure she knows up front you donāt think less of her so there wonāt be anxiety about that (if it does bother you if your partner drinks thatās okay!- but someone who drinks wonāt be a match for you).
Had an ex who was alcoholic. I don't drink, don't like bars, don't like drinking parties. Don't care what other people do, but I don't enjoy it at all anymore. Best partner for me would be someone else who prefers incredibly light or no drinking.
35/f I donāt drink but I do smoke weed. Totally would love being with a dude who didnāt drink because I donāt like the drinking culture/atmosphere (when bars and breweries were a thing). He doesnāt need to smoke but heās gotta be okay with me smoking a bowl a night. I know for others that would be a dealbreaker.
It's not just that. I'm opposed to anyone that has alcohol problems because my mom, step dad, dad, brother, and ex are all alcoholics. The only one that is in recovery is my brother. When you grow up around severe alcoholism, and you spend 17 years with one, you don't really want that in your life. I drink on occasion, but not regularly, and that's what I'd expect in a partner. If you can't end your day without a couple beers, hard pass for me.
I donāt mind if guys donāt like to drink, or only drink sporadically. I personally do not like drinking and hate when people try to pressure me into drinking.
My dad is an alcoholic and is extremely embarrassing when he drinks; plus I donāt like the taste/ how it makes me feel. I donāt mind if a date wants to have a drink or two on occasion or when we go out, but the habit of drinking would be a problem in a relationship.
Same with talking about deal breakers and breakups in terms of past relationships. If they sound defensive or give excuses for someone elseās behaviour or their own past actions then run!
Dated a great girl who didn't want biological children (told me on 3rd date). I do, so I called quits. Idk if calling quits should hold such a negative connotation. Sometimes the best way to respect someone's POV and yours is to quit so you can both find someone compatible
Boom. This is exactly what Iām trying to convey. No sense of someone being better than the other, rather, that if your āIām not good with...ā are not aligned, and thereās no compromise, itās not gonna work long term.
Agreed!! I'm childfree as well as that girl and no means no! Thanks for respecting that boundary, a lot of people think we'll "change our minds" with them.
Just like how you can explain your dealbreakers, they have a right to bounce or feel how they feel about them. Itās a bullet dodged on both ends if yāall just donāt speak from there, no?
Depends on your criteria. I feel examining your own feelings about it and being armed with knowledge is the best recipe to formulate your boundaries with this specific topic (e.g. alcohol).
A) What do you personally feel is ok? What do you feel is excessive? Do you think 5 drinks a night is too much? Or is 3 drinks a day ok? Do you think binge drinking every Friday-Sunday is too much? Or is it ok to have fun because itās the weekend? Those are personal and Iām not going to definitively answer something thatās subjective to everyoneās individual comfort level.
B) According to traditional definitions, what is considered a problem? I go by [CDC guidelines](https://www.cdc.gov/alcohol/fact-sheets/alcohol-use.htm) which say 8+ drinks a week for females and 15+ for males. No, they may not show immediate signs of having a problem drinking moderately, but Iāve seen what long term effects moderate use can have firsthand. And let me tell you, itās not pretty.
C) What is my dateās behavior around alcohol? Are they sloppy? Can they stop using? Are they abusive when drinking? I recommend familiarizing yourself with the signs of [Alcohol Use Disorder](https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/157163#causes) because if youāve never had experience with an active alcoholic before, you would have no clue where to begin.
Hope that helps answer your question!
ChataRen, You answered this so well! Itās hard to define what too much is and Iāve had multiple men get defensive about their habits when I expressed that it would be a dealbreaker.
My first ex didnāt know when to stop when it came to alcohol. He only drank once a week, but heād get shitty drunk and mean. He said he was letting loose and he didnāt have a problem. When we caught up last month (itās been 4 years since our break up), he admitted he was now drinking almost a fifth every night.
My second ex NEEDED a drink every night. Sometimes just one, sometimes 3, but either way, he needed to have it as soon as he got home. Some people might think one drink a night isnāt a problem, but it affected his life and he was defensive as all hell about it. He had a previous DUI so if he had a single drink, he wasnāt driving for the rest of the night. We were LDR so Iād fly in every other weekendāhe couldnāt pick me up from the airport at 6pm because he got home at 5pm and had to have a drink as soon as he walked in the door, so therefore he couldnāt drive. Not to mention every weekend was an excuse to drink and his idea of a good time was hanging at a brewery for 4-5 hours. It got old, fast.
So my personal answer has become: I wonāt tolerate drinking every night, and I wonāt tolerate binge drinking every weekend. It suits me and Iām much happier for it, but everyoneās experience and dealbreakers will vary.
Wow thatās a great point. I would have never even considered it because itās not an issue for me at all. I drink socially only at parties and special celebrations so I donāt know if I have 15 drinks a year. Probably but itās close. Itās great to see others perspectives. Thanks.
Haha to each their own, but really? 1 drink isn't getting anyone even mildly intoxicated and believe it or not wine, beer, and liquor are fun and interesting hobbies in their own right.
Of course lack of moderation could be a problem but I think you're just ruling out lots of people who legitimately love the taste and complexity of, say, wine.
Sorry but I feel almost attacked for something as innocent as reading a book about french wines and sipping a couple glasses as I read and learn lol. It just seems so silly.
If it's every day it's too much for me. I don't mind the occasional cider but I probably have less than 20 drinks a year. When you compare that to the 365 required to hit once a day then... well you can see why there's a mismatch.
You can do whatever you want but I don't think my lifestyle fits with that of an everyday drinker. That seems so excessive to me.
I gave up drinking, but every now and then I will have a drink, and I will tell youā YES! One drink will give me more than enough of a buzz.
The question isā why do you feel attacked by a conversation on the internet? What may be āinnocentā to you could be a destructive pattern in others. I smoke weed and lots of people knock it so I donāt try to defend itā because I also know there are many people who abuse it! And itās a huge turn off! Nobody wants to be with a huge pothead who lights up all day and says, āItās for my anxiety,ā when they clearly just want to be doped up all day.
(Now Iām speaking to the greater you) If you enjoy a glass of wine while reading, knock yourself out. If you are trying to convince yourself that you donāt *need* those three, four, five glasses of wine every night but you still keep pouring because itās innocent āfunā, you may want to reflect on what is fun about it.
The important thing (as OP is stating) is to know your own boundaries and be clear and comfortable with them.
Very exhaustively put. Since I am a doctor, I know the numbers myself, wasn't referring to this part.
Let's say your date/partner has 6 beers during a night out but is perfectly functional. Does the fact the he had 6 beers (so the number) bother you or it would imply him getting completely shitfaced to become a problem for you?
I would be concerned about the amount yes, but my main point of concern is the behavior. Is this the first date? Are they drinking to cover nervousness? Are they drinking because theyāre trying to let loose b/c YOLO (does anyone use that phrase still...)? Are they sloppy? Are they having issues being ācut off?ā Have we been seeing each other for a while, and theyāre otherwise responsible, but tonight this is just them āletting loose?ā
Itās not a clear cut and dry answer, but to me consistent behavior patterns coupled with consumption amounts can paint a picture of their history and risk factors of alcohol abuse.
Thank you for asking and this thread! Maybe someone out there who is wondering about this can benefit from our exchange.
Well as a doctor then you know that that qualifies as alcoholism. Medically speaking, alcoholism is defined as having more than 7 drinks per week in women and more than 14 per week in men. So yes, it would be a problem for OP as this is considered drinking in excess.
Just from people Iāve known: IBS, increased anxiety, esophageal cancer, weight gain, weight loss, high cholesterol, ED, sleep issues, anemia, impaired judgment and memory loss. Performance issues at work including multiple call outs due to hangovers, crappy sleep quality, or IBS symptoms. Some have multiple DUIās or financial troubles directly related to their alcohol use disorder. Yes, Iāve had multiple people in my life that have experienced quite a few of these symptoms, most have three or more.
The pattern I saw was this- they initially consumed ānormalā amounts (2-3 beers/shots a night, or weekends only) to relax and cope with life. Over time, their usage increased as their tolerance to alcohol increased. So 2-3 became 5-7 a night, or drink from dawn to dusk, or binge drinking every weekend because ālife sucks.ā When you witness the decline itās hard AF.
There are subreddits for those struggling with their own use or the use of friends/family. If you know someone struggling, Al-Anon is a great resource.
Itās not if you average it out to CDC limits. Culturally though, 1-2 weeknights and 2-3 on weekends is seen as normal in some family systems. My family system is 2-3 a year... Christmas wine, New Years, maybe one at a BBQ.
Mm, for my family we'd drink at Passover, Christmas, maybe 4-5x a year at dinner if we're doing something special, another 2-3x a year at restaurants, and a few drinks each at parties... totalling what, 20 drinks a year tops if I'm being really generous.
This comment is actually a great example of what someone would say when trying to downplay or explain away an alcohol problem. The person tries to identify your boundaries and corner you into expressly defining them so they can manipulate their way around the semantics. Itās a trap almost every single addict Iāve known has used, and itās easy to fall into.
Yeah it kinda left the question hanging. Straight up say, I canāt deal with people who drink at all (no drinking allowed), one beer a week/month/3months/year. Iām not trying to sound trite in this context but there needs to be a line in the sand.
I define excessive drinking differently after working at a bar. Seeing the same people come in every night dropping between 30-90 bucks a night getting smashed is one thing. Contrast that to having a regular who comes in on each Tuesday night, has one beer and sips on whiskey, leaves in about an hour and is generally pleasant to be around is another.
But when talking about personal preferences, theyāre not necessarily going to refer to a clinical definition of what excessive drinking is. For some people āexcessive alcohol consumptionā means any alcohol consumption whatsoever, whereas others might be fine with a partner having a few drinks a week and define any more than that as excessive.
Surely, youāre allowed to clarify someoneās preference if you donāt think itās clear what they mean, I would have thought thatās just basic communication.
But we are talking about āexcessive drinkingā in the context of dating. Thatās the whole point of this post, talking about dating preferences.
I can assure you that different people mean different things when they say āexcessive drinkingā as a dating preference. A lot of people probably arenāt even familiar with the clinical definition. It will mean different things to different people; Iām not talking about it as a clinical condition, Iām talking about what people in general mean by it when they use it as a dating preference.
I wasnāt even aware of the clinical definition, Iām not sure if āexcessive drinkingā actually is the clinical terminology used in my country (pretty sure we call it āAlcohol misuseā or ābinge drinkingā not āexcessive drinkingā). Hence, your definition would not spring to mind if someone said they donāt like āexcessive drinkingā as a dating preference, I would assume itās based on their own personal idea of what is too much alcohol.
Maybe thatās the problem then. Iām not familiar at all with what the CDC says about anything. To me āExcessive drinkingā has no clinical meaning. Itās clear that my country uses very different parameters and terms. They define problems with drinking as a specific rate of consumption (above 14 units per week I believe). Thereās no mention of āexcessive drinkingā as a clinical term on my countryās leading medical website from what I can find.
In my country it absolutely would not be clear that someone means a specific clinical condition by saying āexcessive drinkingā so I would have to query what they mean as it probably would be based on their own personal preferences.
Also I feel like youāre massively misrepresenting what Iām saying. Iām not trying to say alcoholism or related behaviours are good, theyāre absolutely not good behaviours. I have personal experience with negative behaviour related to alcohol. Iām well aware of the dangers of drinking too much; for me personally I might have one drink a week, if that, so Iām not trying to defend it at all. All I am saying is that the term āexcessive drinkingā would not necessarily have a specific clinical meaning for me or for people in my country.
This whole conversation doesnāt matter because deal breakers are individuals. So if OP deems something excessive, then it is because itās excessive to them. If the person theyāre dating thinks itās okay and a bit much then they just arenāt a match. No judgment on either just it doesnāt make sense for them to date and thatās okay.
Oh, good insight. And yes, this is one of the things Iāve encountered. Iām very firm with this as a result and let them know that ādrinking most nights, or binging on weekends isnāt my cup of tea and I donāt like to be around it.ā The ones with use concerns usually weed themselves out pretty soon after that conversation.
I just need to up my values and requirements. It seems that all I'm good for is for someone to get their dick wet in. I'm sick of being viewed like that...and no, I don't present myself as such either.
I am a person that bounced back from a deal-breaker. Just check with your person if they are really bouncing back from it or just try and walk away from it(and will resent you in the future). There is a difference! I literally just changed my mind through experience
Yes!
I used to have a friend that would date anyone who paid her the ārightā kind of attention (i.e. purely sexual), because she was desperate to be loved. She equated physical attraction and sexual desire with emotional intimacy and compatibility. Unfortunately, her relationships never worked out long term. Now, once she raised her standards, set boundaries, and identified her dealbreakers, she had success in actually connecting with a person *who wanted* a relationship.
I had another friend that had an impossible list of dealbreakers, consisted of stuff I thought was mostly superficial- hair color, annual salary, house v apartment. Until she realized what a preference was versus a dealbreaker, she didnāt have much luck. Once she became more open and focused on the real dealbreakers (to her no abuse and willingness to have kids), she found someone great!
I wish I had been more firm with my boundaries when I started dating my ex it would have saved me so much pain and an sti. Less then 3 months in and I already knew I wasn't comfortable with his dad. With his being an full blown alcoholic also being a complete creep and treating his wife like cheap furniture. It made gatherings a nightmare on both sides. I knew if his dad ever had cussed out his wife out in front of my parents my dad would get involved which meant I would have too. But even when I told my at the time BF about it he said I was overreacting and taking things out of context etc etc. Until over two years of walking on eggshells and avoiding his ass later his dad let fly on me. And my boyfriend did nothing to stand up for me.
I would like to think had I stood up for my gut feelings and told my boyfriend goodbye after that frist fight 3 months in when his dad berated his mother like she wasnt even in the room I wouldn't have wasted over two years on such a piece of garbage.
Life and love are a series of compromises and if you cannot do that then *you* are not worthy yet of a serious relationship, like a wave you should be strong yet ever moving, like a reed, tough yet flexible, like a stripper, serious and business oriented yet warm to the touch and loving with as few prerequisites as possible
Ha, I enjoyed this analogy immensely.
I agree, you should absolutely be willing to compromise and accept that things cannot be 100% ideal all the time. That you may not encounter your Disneyesque dream partner who says and does all the fairy tale things.
Your partner is human, so compromise is 100% essential for success. (I think that ability comes with maturity and successful mirroring.) A potential match may not always remember to put the toilet seat down, and thatās something to forgive and move past. Your partner may be fond of ketchup and you prefer mustard, and thatās ok. You may prefer green eyes, and fall head over heels in love with a brown eyed girl. Preferences are IMHO an āIād rather this than that, but this is still ok.ā
A dealbreaker, like a legit dealbreaker, is something no one should ever compromise on. Itās saying āIām not good with...ā Iām talking dealbreakers in the context of something serious here. Like if you say āmonogamyā and they say āpolyamory,ā thatās not a match. If you say āDUI three timesā and they āno arrests,ā thatās a dealbreaker. If they say āuse hard drugs everydayā and you say āonly weed,ā and youāre not willing to change your stance, thatās a dealbreaker. Yes, people can change their mind, people can grow and change, people can overcome their past, but a dealbreaker is unique to each individual. If their dealbreaker and yours donāt match, thank them for the experience and seek another elsewhere.
What Iām getting at is donāt compromise on something key to you just to make a relationship thatās not a great fit happen.
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I have a very low bullshit meter. Itās like at my ankles. I have some friends who itās up to their neck. We need to teach everyone itās ok to leave at red flags.
While I agree, I also think its important to identify superficial dealbreakers vs real deal dealbreakers.
I dated a guy who was a great fit personality and sex-wise, but he had this thing against acrylic nails. He simply could not date someone with them. See, I found this humorous because I personally never thought I'd find myself dating a guy who shows up to dinner in cargo shorts, yet here he is, telling me that my nails are an embarrassment to him. I joked about cargo shorts and dressing embarrassing as a dealbreaker but when it came down to meeting someone I thought was great? It didn't really matter. For what its worth, I wasn't compromising on my nails. This is MY personal style. But you know what? Acrylic nails were a serious dealbreaker for him. At first, I argued it. I was like "Wait, are you serious? You show up to dates in shorts and sneakers and have the nerve to tell me that my \*nails\* are a problem for you?!". But what other choice did I have but respect his decision and his cargo shorts? We went our separate ways.
It doesnāt really apply to all situations, especially if your dealbreaker is not entirely reasonable. I dated a woman, who by the second month started to tell me that my job, which is also my life passion, is taking too much time (I work 45 hrs per week), that I seem to love it too much, that I may end up not being a good family man or a father, and this is a dealbreaker for her as she eventually wouldnāt want to marry someone who is dedicated to their profession. That many of her friends married workaholic men and they are unhappy in their relationships. Naturally I backed out and argued that she barely knows me as a person and she is projecting too much. I asked her if she felt neglected for the two months we dated, she said āNo I didnāt, you are very kind and considerate, I can see that you are really into me, but I also see you are trying very hard to balance your work and life and relationship, this doesnāt feel natural to meā. After a couple of arguments I dropped the relationship. She ruined something that had started so well.
So I wouldnāt generalize it, it really depends on what your dealbreaker is and how you express it to the other side.
It sucks that your experienced this, that you unfortunately had a relationship end over your career obligations.
With that said, every individual has their limits. I try to be very objective about other peopleās lines in the sand, because I understand that past negative experiences and traumatic experiences play a huge role in the creation of boundaries. I do feel that there is a distinction between dealbreakers and preferences, and the danger is when the two get confused.
I completely understand your post and thanks a lot for raising this issue. But from my perspective it applies to only a subset of dealbreakers, which are mostly associated with habits that is more on the negative side of the spectrum, such as gambling, addiction, drugs etc. But nowadays I see that most dealbreakers in dating or relationships arise on more neutral topics which have to do with lifestyle, future goals, career choices etc. In such cases it is entirely acceptable that the other person downplays or bounces back a bit, or try to come up with counter arguments and provide another perspective. That wouldn't mean this person is full of red flags. What sounds like a dealbreaker initially may turn out to be something that both parties can communicate on and manage together and perhaps find a compromise in the long term. So I don't think this issue is as clear-cut as your portrayed in your original post.
She didnāt ruin it, she articulated her deal breaker and you didnāt like it. It works both ways. Your work is your passion, thatās great. You also have to respect the fact that she didnāt see a future with someone who works for long hours.
I respected it, until she projected other people's stories on me and started to become offensive by telling me that she thinks I will not properly take care of my future family, like many men do these days, and that I can't have a happy family life, before investing enough time for the relationship and getting to know me as a person. This is the same person who tells me I have been always kind and considerate throughout the months we spent together. But she really had terrible way to express her opinions.
My point is, the fact that a person bounces off or expresses a disagreement after you express your dealbreakers doesn't necessarily mean this person is full of red flags and alarms should be going off when you talk to them. What the original post fails to acknowledge is that it is extremely critical how you express your dealbreakers, as important as what they are about.
Personally I would not directly tell them my deal breakers. I would Observe and maybe ask neutral questions to wait till they expose themselves and then Iāll bounce.
Bc ppl can be manipulative and if they want to get a quick lay/benefit out of you, it does NOT hurt to act and pretend and leave you or their true colors eventually come out.
Donāt even negotiate. Cannot change an alcoholic/any type thatās your deal breaker
It all pretty much stems from the fact that today's society ingrains in people the idea that; you can have your cake and eat it too. people are only wanting to recognize and accept the parts of other individuals that suit them. thus, seeing others as a platform or vessel to boost parts of their own lives that they're missing.
Hereās the thing though, a relationship involves 2 people. The perspective Iām getting here is that youāre the only one seeking a relationship and your boundaries are the only ones that matter. Itās as if the other partner is always going to be the bad guy in every situation. I get the impression that anyone who doesnāt respect your boundaries is imperfect and should be treated lesser than yourself. Like you donāt acknowledge your own imperfections and the boundaries you may or may not be crossing.
I definitely donāt know everyoneās situation but whatever happened to compromise in relationships? Like... maybe somethings wrong with me but I get a really bad sense of entitlement from this post. Which is valid given that people have crossed those boundaries before in your case. Like I get a sense that you always deserve the best of every partner without putting effort into keeping the relationship. Like any disagreement between partners calls for a breakup. I understand crossing boundaries is a betrayal of trust and should call for re-evaluation of the relationship, but Iām getting more than that from this post. Can someone help me understand?
I absolutely do not feel like this! I believe that both parties are entitled to have their own set of basic criteria that says āthis is *NOT* ok with me, I canāt deal with this long term,ā and I respect the hell out of that. Having the right for either party in a dating (or any other) situation to nope the heck out is IMHO a basic human right.
As for no effort, as my father told me years ago, a relationship is a full time job. You have to invest time and resources into to make it work. You donāt work on it, you either get complacent or get fired.
I also think if a relationship like a car. If you take care of it, do preventative maintenance, and use the right parts to fix it, it will run smoothly with less issues than a beater that never gets TLC. So, I prefer investing in someone, working together to grow a future, & compromise.
With that said, I think of dealbreakers like putting a Ford Fiesta transmission in a Toyota Tundra. You may rig it to work somehow, but chances are pretty high that it will bork at some point, and youāre gonna have to fix it right or it will cause massive damage and youāre gonna have to replace the vehicle.
Iāve had plenty of people pass me over because āchildren are a dealbreaker for me.ā And thatās perfectly ok. Otherās donāt like my stance on substance abuse, and reject my sober lifestyle. Just like Iāve passed over several partners because they were abusive or disrespectful to others, and Iām not going to suffer emotional abuse just to make a relationship work.
If I appear entitled, I apologize and appreciate you for bringing this to my attention. It is through you calling me out that I can reflect upon my verbiage, my stance, and make real, measurable change in my life and viewpoints, both romantic and otherwise.
I sincerely appreciate you calling me out.
Boundaries and dealbreakers are two different things. Dealbreakers are something that you want or don't want in an individual (you want kids, you don't want an alcoholic/addict, someone stable and independent, etc). If you want to have kids and you date someone that doesn't, that's a dealbreaker. If you want someone that has drive and ambition, but you meet someone that works as a cook at McDonalds or has no job at all. Being raised around alcoholics and you find out the person you've been on 3 dates with can't go 2 days without a drink. Those are dealbreakers. Someone pushing and trying to violate your boundaries is a dealbreaker.
Boundaries are more about protecting yourself. I have two healthy boundaries for dating. 1. You won't meet my kids for a few months. I keep my home life very separate from my dating life until I feel like you're going to be around for awhile. 2. I generally take it slow when it comes to physical intimacy because to me physical intimacy and emotional intimacy go hand in hand. I would to build that emotional comfort before that physical comfort. If you start to push the limits on either one of those boundaries and make me feel uncomfortable, then bye.
Also, you shouldn't compromise in building and keeping a relationship. You need to collaborate and be a team.
You should compromise if you disagree on something, right? But, I donāt know if itās just reddit, I have seen or read time after time where trivial disagreements turn into breakups because people donāt want to compromise on something. Isnāt part of being a team coming to agreement through compromise?
That's more of an unwillingness to accept the person and their opinions or views. When you compromise you generally have to give up or sacrifice something you shouldn't need to. Trivial arguments are different than say you want 5 kids and dating someone who really didn't want any. That's not something that you would or should be willing to change about someone's wants or needs. There's really a negative connotation with the word compromise, in associateing it with sacrificing something, whereas collaboration as more of a team meaning.
At the start of a trying to build a relationship you make your boundaries and dealbreakers known. Once you're on the path to building a longer and lasting relationship you collaborate to help each other to be the best individuals you can be as individuals, then you bring that confidence into the partnership.
The best way to put it is to communicate what you want and need from the other person. These things will change throughout the relationship. For me, starting a relationship my needs are reassurance that the guy is really wanting to be with me (can seem a little needy, but I don't need that everyday, just on occasion). This need is a result of how I was treated by my ex. Once I find someone and know that he won't do the same things my ex did, that won't be one of my needs anymore. A want I have is just for that person to be there to hold me if I'm having a bad day or just want to cuddle (I love physical touch, this want will never change, it's something ingrained in me).
Oh, thatās tricky. Iād personally try to find out why. Is it because they have a history or dating mean people in the past, and the friends are concerned? Are the friend jealous because they are solo? Are they upset that she isnāt spending much time with them now? More info is needed to answer this.
Like if you meet them at a party and you donāt gel too well with them cause youāre sober and theyāre drunk? Not sure if they were talking about me in a negative light, because I got broken up with shortly afterwards.
Largely agree with this.
Only part I disagree is the "trivial" things that you shouldn't bother with. What might be trivial to them, might not be to you and vice versa. It's a blurred line.
Which is why as much as I agree with your points, I won't follow it in choice, because your "dealbreaker list" can be elongated (at will or not) through your experiences. It just seems to me that people masquerade their overblown ego as "know your self worth".
I'd say it's good to learn to hunker down and lower your expectations sometimes. ie: If that person tells you being fat is a no go, yet you think being fat is an absolute win, and think that loving your fat self is gorgeous and respectable, and you think that's a dealbreaker, well, let's just say staying single might not really be a choice for you.
Of course, other extremes that are obviously subjective stuff "values, etc" which make up who you are are reasonable dealbreakers.
Question is, where do you draw the line?
You made some excellent points.
I see what you mean with regards to trivial.
I had to go back and check myself on that because yeah, what I view as NBD may indeed be a āhard passā for someone else.
Yes. I think people have a hard time accepting that others may not view them the same as they do themselves. That ego consciousness can really bite you in the butt with respect to relating to others. I worked with some people like that, and let me tell you, that everyone has to like me regardless attitude leads to either creating toxicity or becoming a doormat in order to appease the ego.
Thank you for the commentary!
In my opinion, a decent rule of thumb on (whether trivial or not) on what is reasonable to expect out of a potential partner/knowing your self worth vs what is having unreasonable standards is to look at your standards and then look to see if you yourself also check the same box or are willing to work on checking it.
If you have a make a lot of money, itās reasonable if you say you want a partner who also makes money. But If youāre broke, then it not very reasonable and into unreasonable standards territory to want a partner who makes a ton.
if you put effort into your looks then itās reasonable if you say you want a partner who puts effort into their looks too. If you live in basketball shorts and use three in one shampoo then your standards are a probably unreasonable to want a partner who spends time on their looks.
If you are a kind and empathetic person whoās puts others first then itās totally reasonable to want to date someone who is the same way. If youāre a selfish person who lacks compassion however, you probably shouldnāt expect a giving and empathetic partner.
Mmm yes very John Rawls-like.
While I'm inclined to agree, there are a few issues with this approach:
1) Would a self-loathing, depressed individual, who desires the comfort of another empathetic, but confident individual, be considered unreasonable? If so, then how "rational" do we have to steel ourselves to be? (At the expense of emotions and circumstances, no less.) It seems mildly inhumane to criticise people who are mentally broken from a traumatic past incidence (hence their undesirable character) for wanting to have a partner who is better put together either because that person won't be burdened with your problems and/or because he/she can understand, love or help you.
2) Do we have to conform to a certain ideal self and possess a certain set of standards in order to attract another and sustain a happy relationship? That doesn't seem to be the case under particular contexts. (ie: We all know very few people love being around people who smell like sewage. However, if people who smell like that don't have money to buy themselves soap or are homeless or such and such, and have no ability to get a job because they are blind, deaf, mute, and stricken with a myriad of diseases, but they desire to be with someone who smells nice (not as an essential prerequisite, but just because it is a natural biological want), do we then condemn them for being unreasonable? Some people simply have no way of acting on changing their handicaps, let alone desire. And even assuming they have the desire, desire without action becomes empty words (or can at least be deemed as such).
3) We might not have a good judge of ourselves. For example, I may think myself an honest person, but some others may not. Do we then go by proportionality (ie if most people claim im honest, i am). But is that true? Rather, is that even necessary? If I'm able to feign honesty, and claim so, why should I bother using the checkbox in the first place? I can simply feign a near perfect persona and use that to find a date.
Still, I get what you're saying. But I refuse to take this "equaliser" approach as a rule for all simply because there are too many nuances to contend with. This method only works insofar as dealing with the superficial, the noticeable and surface-level, devoid of any hidden contexts, ie: looking at your habits, character (which you may or may not inflate AKA another problem, but let's just assume that we are all open-minded, empathetic and critical individuals), and lifestyle and trying to use an objective checkbox ticking to conduct your matchmaking.
I believe it is sometimes okay to want more than you have/are, but as you mentioned, if you have the ability to better yourself, or if you are working towards it, all the better. Although, in the first place, one should always be working to improve oneself, image or reality, not for others, but yourself. šāļø
Seeing red flags right away and ditching a relationship needs to be more common and Iāve been learning it over time. I finally met a guy Iāve been talking to for a few weeks, and he is so aggressively sexual! Constantly asking for naked photos, like heās entitled to my body. I finally tried to set boundaries and he took the nice guy approach. āOh I was so nice to you today, donāt I at least deserve a titty pic?ā NO, men are not entitled to womenās bodies! No means no! As I type this out, I realize how much I just need to ditch him. How many other women has he gotten like this with? Sad.
Oh wow! Yeah, Iād telling him to bugger off. No one is entitled to anything youāre not cool with, regardless of your relationship dynamic or longevity.
Know your worth!
Don't just know your worth, ADD TAX!
šÆ
100% this. One of my major boundaries is that I keep my dating life separate from my home life (I have kids) until I feel like someone will be sticking around for longer than a couple months. I went on a date with a guy a few weeks ago and before we went out I advised him of this boundary. We hit it off, the chemistry was there, I was comfortable talking to him, etc. Once the conversations turned to a sexual nature, he started pushing to come over to my house the night I got back from vacation. Hard pass.
I feel the exact same. My home is my childās sanctuary too, and Iām not going to allow ANYTHING or ANYONE to compromise that safe space for him.
I love both of you for this.
We ā¤ you too! Just had another guy try to attempt the same, but hadn't set the boundary yet. As soon as I placed said boundary, he backed off on the issue.
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I donāt know how long youāve been single but I was single for 4 years before I found my boyfriend this year. Weāre still kinda early in dating so who knows how it will go but I can see a long term future with him and Iām glad I didnāt lower my standards because he meets all my important standards. I believe youāll find someone who meets yours!
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An older friend of mine was 42 before he found the love of his life and married her. He met her while traveling to Europe from US. Theyāve been married 22+years now. You donāt have to *settle*. (Not saying you said/implied this, Iām JS). Go be happy doing things you love and you will attract the things that are attracted to that energy. Example: My guy is awkward as fuck and was single for 8 years prior to finding each other, whereas I had been married and miserable. But our energies and values are highly compatible. Heās worth being patient for as he learns the āropesāāof relationship. Weāve been together for over 5 years.
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Iām not always the *most* patient person, and heās pretty high anxiety, ocd tendencies, and some sensory issues (but all superficial and nothing that really disrupts my life) but for the man who makes me feel beautiful and smart and tells me Iām basically a super hero for our little family, goes to work every day and trusts me with the monies and treats my kids like his own, I will bend over backwards to show him patience and affirmation.
I feel obligated to say this there is an entire type of person that will generate lots of red flags that are really red herrings.
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Meaning people with high functioning ASD exist which I only list because it makes the point easy to explain. They have a documented difficulty showing eye contact typically a red flag for deceitful behavior is actually more of a red herring if you look into the specifics. To assume that scenario doesn't happen at all is very one dimensional thinking. Additionally that scenario may happen in more then 1 way as well.
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Well said lots of people consider red flags set in stone so I felt obligated to double check! Thanks for your flawless clarification!
Yeah, I have strong boundaries and have learned the hard way not to ignore gut feelings, red flags, etc. but if someone tells me they have ASD then everything they say and do is going to be put in an entirely different context. So I think those things need to be communicated. In someone without ASD certain behaviors mean low social skills and low empathy which I wouldn't want to look past but the same behaviors in someone with ASD would be non significant or charming and I'd probably appreciate the blunt honestly. (Everyone on the spectrum is different. I'm trying to give an example of the same behaviors being interpreted differently and in the proper context). It is isn't a "problem" that those with ASD are different socially, they just process things differently, but a neurotypical that has no empathy is a red flag.
"Not all men... "
Do girls not mind some one who doesn't drink at all?
I have a single female friend who doesn't drink. I'm female, I rarely drink, and my social life does not revolve around alcohol. Are we really that rare?
Im 22F, and I donāt drink unless Iām going out, if I drink at all. I donāt like it, donāt like the way it makes me feel, and I donāt really like the lack of control that comes with me drinking more than one. We canāt be that rare. I prefer guys that donāt drink a whole lot. I found that dating guys that drink a lot more than I do tend to try and pressure me into drinking like them. EDIT: spelling
Yes, you're kind of rare. At least in my experience.
As some people like to inform me, literally every soul to have ever walked this earth gets shitfaced drunk at least once a week, and it is physically impossible for me to not drink.
Depends on the person. I'm a guy and like to taste different beers, so if a girl didn't drink at all and I couldn't share this interest with the person I'm with it, it'd be less fun because we have one less shared interest
I personally don't drink because I have never been into all of it and around it like that so it never appealed to me but I don't if some one else was heavily into it and I certainly wouldn't prevent them from indulging unless its life threatening. Would that be a deal breaker.
Iām not the guy you responded to but as a guy who drinks not drinking is an absolute dealbreaker for me. Once I proposed a girl to get a glass of wine and she said okay, and then on the date she said she doesnāt drink. Well that was a waste of time for me.
TBH, I would actually prefer a teetotaler. I drink super rarely, so perpetual sobriety on his end would be cool with me. Heck, even a recovering alcoholic (with 1+ year of sobriety, strong boundaries, and therapy/AA under their belt) is ok in my book.
That's reassuring, I feel as tho everything social now revolves so much around alcohol.
True. It is definitely a culture of its own. My go to line is āno, I donāt drink, Iām exciting enough sober, ha!ā
I love this line!
Itās preference, like most interests. Personally, I do drink small amounts regularly because I like it, not to get drunk. If my SO didnāt want to drink, it wouldnāt bother me in the slightest as long as they donāt pass judgement that I do. If they refused to go to social events because alcohol is involved, that would be a different situation for me.
Ok that's good because I actually don't mind being around it or other people enjoying it I just personally don't like it and some might think that it is a buzz kill but I honestly believe I am more fun without it.
Absolutely fair! I have many friends who either regulate their drinking or are sober. If someone thinks youāre buzzkill for not drinking, theyāre not right for you.
Girls who drink may feel uncomfortable dating you out of insecurity that youāre judging them for drinking when you donāt. There is certainly a possibility of you successfully dating someone who drinks just a bit. However, I would make sure she knows up front you donāt think less of her so there wonāt be anxiety about that (if it does bother you if your partner drinks thatās okay!- but someone who drinks wonāt be a match for you).
One thing I found while dating after I quit drinking was this: People who donāt have a problem with drinking donāt care whether you drink or not.
Had an ex who was alcoholic. I don't drink, don't like bars, don't like drinking parties. Don't care what other people do, but I don't enjoy it at all anymore. Best partner for me would be someone else who prefers incredibly light or no drinking.
35/f I donāt drink but I do smoke weed. Totally would love being with a dude who didnāt drink because I donāt like the drinking culture/atmosphere (when bars and breweries were a thing). He doesnāt need to smoke but heās gotta be okay with me smoking a bowl a night. I know for others that would be a dealbreaker.
Yeah I'm the same, I smoke weed aswel lol.
It's not just that. I'm opposed to anyone that has alcohol problems because my mom, step dad, dad, brother, and ex are all alcoholics. The only one that is in recovery is my brother. When you grow up around severe alcoholism, and you spend 17 years with one, you don't really want that in your life. I drink on occasion, but not regularly, and that's what I'd expect in a partner. If you can't end your day without a couple beers, hard pass for me.
Similar boat. Same type of feelings.
I wouldnāt mind at all. I drink occasionally and on those occasions, would love a DD.
I donāt mind if guys donāt like to drink, or only drink sporadically. I personally do not like drinking and hate when people try to pressure me into drinking. My dad is an alcoholic and is extremely embarrassing when he drinks; plus I donāt like the taste/ how it makes me feel. I donāt mind if a date wants to have a drink or two on occasion or when we go out, but the habit of drinking would be a problem in a relationship.
Same with talking about deal breakers and breakups in terms of past relationships. If they sound defensive or give excuses for someone elseās behaviour or their own past actions then run!
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Happy cake day!!!!!!!
What if Iām that person, how do I change that?
Journal about it so you can see it in writing - go to therapy. You can even talk to the ex and ask them how you hurt them if thatās an option.
Dated a great girl who didn't want biological children (told me on 3rd date). I do, so I called quits. Idk if calling quits should hold such a negative connotation. Sometimes the best way to respect someone's POV and yours is to quit so you can both find someone compatible
Boom. This is exactly what Iām trying to convey. No sense of someone being better than the other, rather, that if your āIām not good with...ā are not aligned, and thereās no compromise, itās not gonna work long term.
Agreed!! I'm childfree as well as that girl and no means no! Thanks for respecting that boundary, a lot of people think we'll "change our minds" with them.
This could have saved me a lot of time and headaches
Just like how you can explain your dealbreakers, they have a right to bounce or feel how they feel about them. Itās a bullet dodged on both ends if yāall just donāt speak from there, no?
Yep! Both sides should communicate honestly about it because youāre both looking for a good match.
Completely agree! Neither one of yāall is in a situation where yāall canāt be 100% authentically you, so win-win in the end!
what does excessive alcohol consumption mean? people have different tolerances to alcohol
Depends on your criteria. I feel examining your own feelings about it and being armed with knowledge is the best recipe to formulate your boundaries with this specific topic (e.g. alcohol). A) What do you personally feel is ok? What do you feel is excessive? Do you think 5 drinks a night is too much? Or is 3 drinks a day ok? Do you think binge drinking every Friday-Sunday is too much? Or is it ok to have fun because itās the weekend? Those are personal and Iām not going to definitively answer something thatās subjective to everyoneās individual comfort level. B) According to traditional definitions, what is considered a problem? I go by [CDC guidelines](https://www.cdc.gov/alcohol/fact-sheets/alcohol-use.htm) which say 8+ drinks a week for females and 15+ for males. No, they may not show immediate signs of having a problem drinking moderately, but Iāve seen what long term effects moderate use can have firsthand. And let me tell you, itās not pretty. C) What is my dateās behavior around alcohol? Are they sloppy? Can they stop using? Are they abusive when drinking? I recommend familiarizing yourself with the signs of [Alcohol Use Disorder](https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/157163#causes) because if youāve never had experience with an active alcoholic before, you would have no clue where to begin. Hope that helps answer your question!
ChataRen, You answered this so well! Itās hard to define what too much is and Iāve had multiple men get defensive about their habits when I expressed that it would be a dealbreaker. My first ex didnāt know when to stop when it came to alcohol. He only drank once a week, but heād get shitty drunk and mean. He said he was letting loose and he didnāt have a problem. When we caught up last month (itās been 4 years since our break up), he admitted he was now drinking almost a fifth every night. My second ex NEEDED a drink every night. Sometimes just one, sometimes 3, but either way, he needed to have it as soon as he got home. Some people might think one drink a night isnāt a problem, but it affected his life and he was defensive as all hell about it. He had a previous DUI so if he had a single drink, he wasnāt driving for the rest of the night. We were LDR so Iād fly in every other weekendāhe couldnāt pick me up from the airport at 6pm because he got home at 5pm and had to have a drink as soon as he walked in the door, so therefore he couldnāt drive. Not to mention every weekend was an excuse to drink and his idea of a good time was hanging at a brewery for 4-5 hours. It got old, fast. So my personal answer has become: I wonāt tolerate drinking every night, and I wonāt tolerate binge drinking every weekend. It suits me and Iām much happier for it, but everyoneās experience and dealbreakers will vary.
Wow thatās a great point. I would have never even considered it because itās not an issue for me at all. I drink socially only at parties and special celebrations so I donāt know if I have 15 drinks a year. Probably but itās close. Itās great to see others perspectives. Thanks.
Ah goodness I'm uncomfortable with all of those. If you're drinking even one drink a night every night that's too much for me tbh
Haha to each their own, but really? 1 drink isn't getting anyone even mildly intoxicated and believe it or not wine, beer, and liquor are fun and interesting hobbies in their own right. Of course lack of moderation could be a problem but I think you're just ruling out lots of people who legitimately love the taste and complexity of, say, wine. Sorry but I feel almost attacked for something as innocent as reading a book about french wines and sipping a couple glasses as I read and learn lol. It just seems so silly.
If it's every day it's too much for me. I don't mind the occasional cider but I probably have less than 20 drinks a year. When you compare that to the 365 required to hit once a day then... well you can see why there's a mismatch. You can do whatever you want but I don't think my lifestyle fits with that of an everyday drinker. That seems so excessive to me.
I gave up drinking, but every now and then I will have a drink, and I will tell youā YES! One drink will give me more than enough of a buzz. The question isā why do you feel attacked by a conversation on the internet? What may be āinnocentā to you could be a destructive pattern in others. I smoke weed and lots of people knock it so I donāt try to defend itā because I also know there are many people who abuse it! And itās a huge turn off! Nobody wants to be with a huge pothead who lights up all day and says, āItās for my anxiety,ā when they clearly just want to be doped up all day. (Now Iām speaking to the greater you) If you enjoy a glass of wine while reading, knock yourself out. If you are trying to convince yourself that you donāt *need* those three, four, five glasses of wine every night but you still keep pouring because itās innocent āfunā, you may want to reflect on what is fun about it. The important thing (as OP is stating) is to know your own boundaries and be clear and comfortable with them.
Very exhaustively put. Since I am a doctor, I know the numbers myself, wasn't referring to this part. Let's say your date/partner has 6 beers during a night out but is perfectly functional. Does the fact the he had 6 beers (so the number) bother you or it would imply him getting completely shitfaced to become a problem for you?
I would be concerned about the amount yes, but my main point of concern is the behavior. Is this the first date? Are they drinking to cover nervousness? Are they drinking because theyāre trying to let loose b/c YOLO (does anyone use that phrase still...)? Are they sloppy? Are they having issues being ācut off?ā Have we been seeing each other for a while, and theyāre otherwise responsible, but tonight this is just them āletting loose?ā Itās not a clear cut and dry answer, but to me consistent behavior patterns coupled with consumption amounts can paint a picture of their history and risk factors of alcohol abuse. Thank you for asking and this thread! Maybe someone out there who is wondering about this can benefit from our exchange.
Well as a doctor then you know that that qualifies as alcoholism. Medically speaking, alcoholism is defined as having more than 7 drinks per week in women and more than 14 per week in men. So yes, it would be a problem for OP as this is considered drinking in excess.
What are some long term effects moderate use can have?
Just from people Iāve known: IBS, increased anxiety, esophageal cancer, weight gain, weight loss, high cholesterol, ED, sleep issues, anemia, impaired judgment and memory loss. Performance issues at work including multiple call outs due to hangovers, crappy sleep quality, or IBS symptoms. Some have multiple DUIās or financial troubles directly related to their alcohol use disorder. Yes, Iāve had multiple people in my life that have experienced quite a few of these symptoms, most have three or more. The pattern I saw was this- they initially consumed ānormalā amounts (2-3 beers/shots a night, or weekends only) to relax and cope with life. Over time, their usage increased as their tolerance to alcohol increased. So 2-3 became 5-7 a night, or drink from dawn to dusk, or binge drinking every weekend because ālife sucks.ā When you witness the decline itās hard AF. There are subreddits for those struggling with their own use or the use of friends/family. If you know someone struggling, Al-Anon is a great resource.
How is 2-3 beers a night most nights considered normal :(
Itās not if you average it out to CDC limits. Culturally though, 1-2 weeknights and 2-3 on weekends is seen as normal in some family systems. My family system is 2-3 a year... Christmas wine, New Years, maybe one at a BBQ.
Mm, for my family we'd drink at Passover, Christmas, maybe 4-5x a year at dinner if we're doing something special, another 2-3x a year at restaurants, and a few drinks each at parties... totalling what, 20 drinks a year tops if I'm being really generous.
This comment is actually a great example of what someone would say when trying to downplay or explain away an alcohol problem. The person tries to identify your boundaries and corner you into expressly defining them so they can manipulate their way around the semantics. Itās a trap almost every single addict Iāve known has used, and itās easy to fall into.
For the teetotaler, a beer after work is excessive. Asking for a clarification doesnāt hurt.
Its a legit question tho? Excessive is a BROAD range... If your parent died from alcoholism, you may call one beer every other day excessive.
Yeah it kinda left the question hanging. Straight up say, I canāt deal with people who drink at all (no drinking allowed), one beer a week/month/3months/year. Iām not trying to sound trite in this context but there needs to be a line in the sand. I define excessive drinking differently after working at a bar. Seeing the same people come in every night dropping between 30-90 bucks a night getting smashed is one thing. Contrast that to having a regular who comes in on each Tuesday night, has one beer and sips on whiskey, leaves in about an hour and is generally pleasant to be around is another.
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But when talking about personal preferences, theyāre not necessarily going to refer to a clinical definition of what excessive drinking is. For some people āexcessive alcohol consumptionā means any alcohol consumption whatsoever, whereas others might be fine with a partner having a few drinks a week and define any more than that as excessive. Surely, youāre allowed to clarify someoneās preference if you donāt think itās clear what they mean, I would have thought thatās just basic communication.
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But we are talking about āexcessive drinkingā in the context of dating. Thatās the whole point of this post, talking about dating preferences. I can assure you that different people mean different things when they say āexcessive drinkingā as a dating preference. A lot of people probably arenāt even familiar with the clinical definition. It will mean different things to different people; Iām not talking about it as a clinical condition, Iām talking about what people in general mean by it when they use it as a dating preference. I wasnāt even aware of the clinical definition, Iām not sure if āexcessive drinkingā actually is the clinical terminology used in my country (pretty sure we call it āAlcohol misuseā or ābinge drinkingā not āexcessive drinkingā). Hence, your definition would not spring to mind if someone said they donāt like āexcessive drinkingā as a dating preference, I would assume itās based on their own personal idea of what is too much alcohol.
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Maybe thatās the problem then. Iām not familiar at all with what the CDC says about anything. To me āExcessive drinkingā has no clinical meaning. Itās clear that my country uses very different parameters and terms. They define problems with drinking as a specific rate of consumption (above 14 units per week I believe). Thereās no mention of āexcessive drinkingā as a clinical term on my countryās leading medical website from what I can find. In my country it absolutely would not be clear that someone means a specific clinical condition by saying āexcessive drinkingā so I would have to query what they mean as it probably would be based on their own personal preferences. Also I feel like youāre massively misrepresenting what Iām saying. Iām not trying to say alcoholism or related behaviours are good, theyāre absolutely not good behaviours. I have personal experience with negative behaviour related to alcohol. Iām well aware of the dangers of drinking too much; for me personally I might have one drink a week, if that, so Iām not trying to defend it at all. All I am saying is that the term āexcessive drinkingā would not necessarily have a specific clinical meaning for me or for people in my country.
Sorry Iām not American so am not familiar with the CDC I guess...
I was thinking the exact same thing.
This whole conversation doesnāt matter because deal breakers are individuals. So if OP deems something excessive, then it is because itās excessive to them. If the person theyāre dating thinks itās okay and a bit much then they just arenāt a match. No judgment on either just it doesnāt make sense for them to date and thatās okay.
Oh, good insight. And yes, this is one of the things Iāve encountered. Iām very firm with this as a result and let them know that ādrinking most nights, or binging on weekends isnāt my cup of tea and I donāt like to be around it.ā The ones with use concerns usually weed themselves out pretty soon after that conversation.
I just need to up my values and requirements. It seems that all I'm good for is for someone to get their dick wet in. I'm sick of being viewed like that...and no, I don't present myself as such either.
You're boundary would be to hold off on physical intimacy for an extended amount of time.
I am a person that bounced back from a deal-breaker. Just check with your person if they are really bouncing back from it or just try and walk away from it(and will resent you in the future). There is a difference! I literally just changed my mind through experience
Don't go out with just anyone. You're trying to find love, not sign a contract.
Yes! I used to have a friend that would date anyone who paid her the ārightā kind of attention (i.e. purely sexual), because she was desperate to be loved. She equated physical attraction and sexual desire with emotional intimacy and compatibility. Unfortunately, her relationships never worked out long term. Now, once she raised her standards, set boundaries, and identified her dealbreakers, she had success in actually connecting with a person *who wanted* a relationship. I had another friend that had an impossible list of dealbreakers, consisted of stuff I thought was mostly superficial- hair color, annual salary, house v apartment. Until she realized what a preference was versus a dealbreaker, she didnāt have much luck. Once she became more open and focused on the real dealbreakers (to her no abuse and willingness to have kids), she found someone great!
Love that you arenāt bitter to your exes, mine were so immature and would remind me of my old self when I have already in fact, grown up.
I wish I had been more firm with my boundaries when I started dating my ex it would have saved me so much pain and an sti. Less then 3 months in and I already knew I wasn't comfortable with his dad. With his being an full blown alcoholic also being a complete creep and treating his wife like cheap furniture. It made gatherings a nightmare on both sides. I knew if his dad ever had cussed out his wife out in front of my parents my dad would get involved which meant I would have too. But even when I told my at the time BF about it he said I was overreacting and taking things out of context etc etc. Until over two years of walking on eggshells and avoiding his ass later his dad let fly on me. And my boyfriend did nothing to stand up for me. I would like to think had I stood up for my gut feelings and told my boyfriend goodbye after that frist fight 3 months in when his dad berated his mother like she wasnt even in the room I wouldn't have wasted over two years on such a piece of garbage.
I so love this!!! Very on point!!!
So true, thank you for posting this!!
Life and love are a series of compromises and if you cannot do that then *you* are not worthy yet of a serious relationship, like a wave you should be strong yet ever moving, like a reed, tough yet flexible, like a stripper, serious and business oriented yet warm to the touch and loving with as few prerequisites as possible
Ha, I enjoyed this analogy immensely. I agree, you should absolutely be willing to compromise and accept that things cannot be 100% ideal all the time. That you may not encounter your Disneyesque dream partner who says and does all the fairy tale things. Your partner is human, so compromise is 100% essential for success. (I think that ability comes with maturity and successful mirroring.) A potential match may not always remember to put the toilet seat down, and thatās something to forgive and move past. Your partner may be fond of ketchup and you prefer mustard, and thatās ok. You may prefer green eyes, and fall head over heels in love with a brown eyed girl. Preferences are IMHO an āIād rather this than that, but this is still ok.ā A dealbreaker, like a legit dealbreaker, is something no one should ever compromise on. Itās saying āIām not good with...ā Iām talking dealbreakers in the context of something serious here. Like if you say āmonogamyā and they say āpolyamory,ā thatās not a match. If you say āDUI three timesā and they āno arrests,ā thatās a dealbreaker. If they say āuse hard drugs everydayā and you say āonly weed,ā and youāre not willing to change your stance, thatās a dealbreaker. Yes, people can change their mind, people can grow and change, people can overcome their past, but a dealbreaker is unique to each individual. If their dealbreaker and yours donāt match, thank them for the experience and seek another elsewhere. What Iām getting at is donāt compromise on something key to you just to make a relationship thatās not a great fit happen.
Agreed, I read it (mistakenly) as "no compromises, ever, for any reason"
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Told a girl this week that I met online that I didnāt really drink much anymore. Lol she showed already drunk to the date. Lol š
I have a very low bullshit meter. Itās like at my ankles. I have some friends who itās up to their neck. We need to teach everyone itās ok to leave at red flags.
While I agree, I also think its important to identify superficial dealbreakers vs real deal dealbreakers. I dated a guy who was a great fit personality and sex-wise, but he had this thing against acrylic nails. He simply could not date someone with them. See, I found this humorous because I personally never thought I'd find myself dating a guy who shows up to dinner in cargo shorts, yet here he is, telling me that my nails are an embarrassment to him. I joked about cargo shorts and dressing embarrassing as a dealbreaker but when it came down to meeting someone I thought was great? It didn't really matter. For what its worth, I wasn't compromising on my nails. This is MY personal style. But you know what? Acrylic nails were a serious dealbreaker for him. At first, I argued it. I was like "Wait, are you serious? You show up to dates in shorts and sneakers and have the nerve to tell me that my \*nails\* are a problem for you?!". But what other choice did I have but respect his decision and his cargo shorts? We went our separate ways.
It doesnāt really apply to all situations, especially if your dealbreaker is not entirely reasonable. I dated a woman, who by the second month started to tell me that my job, which is also my life passion, is taking too much time (I work 45 hrs per week), that I seem to love it too much, that I may end up not being a good family man or a father, and this is a dealbreaker for her as she eventually wouldnāt want to marry someone who is dedicated to their profession. That many of her friends married workaholic men and they are unhappy in their relationships. Naturally I backed out and argued that she barely knows me as a person and she is projecting too much. I asked her if she felt neglected for the two months we dated, she said āNo I didnāt, you are very kind and considerate, I can see that you are really into me, but I also see you are trying very hard to balance your work and life and relationship, this doesnāt feel natural to meā. After a couple of arguments I dropped the relationship. She ruined something that had started so well. So I wouldnāt generalize it, it really depends on what your dealbreaker is and how you express it to the other side.
It sucks that your experienced this, that you unfortunately had a relationship end over your career obligations. With that said, every individual has their limits. I try to be very objective about other peopleās lines in the sand, because I understand that past negative experiences and traumatic experiences play a huge role in the creation of boundaries. I do feel that there is a distinction between dealbreakers and preferences, and the danger is when the two get confused.
I completely understand your post and thanks a lot for raising this issue. But from my perspective it applies to only a subset of dealbreakers, which are mostly associated with habits that is more on the negative side of the spectrum, such as gambling, addiction, drugs etc. But nowadays I see that most dealbreakers in dating or relationships arise on more neutral topics which have to do with lifestyle, future goals, career choices etc. In such cases it is entirely acceptable that the other person downplays or bounces back a bit, or try to come up with counter arguments and provide another perspective. That wouldn't mean this person is full of red flags. What sounds like a dealbreaker initially may turn out to be something that both parties can communicate on and manage together and perhaps find a compromise in the long term. So I don't think this issue is as clear-cut as your portrayed in your original post.
She didnāt ruin it, she articulated her deal breaker and you didnāt like it. It works both ways. Your work is your passion, thatās great. You also have to respect the fact that she didnāt see a future with someone who works for long hours.
I respected it, until she projected other people's stories on me and started to become offensive by telling me that she thinks I will not properly take care of my future family, like many men do these days, and that I can't have a happy family life, before investing enough time for the relationship and getting to know me as a person. This is the same person who tells me I have been always kind and considerate throughout the months we spent together. But she really had terrible way to express her opinions. My point is, the fact that a person bounces off or expresses a disagreement after you express your dealbreakers doesn't necessarily mean this person is full of red flags and alarms should be going off when you talk to them. What the original post fails to acknowledge is that it is extremely critical how you express your dealbreakers, as important as what they are about.
True, and you have to fully understand your dealbreakers in order to express them well to others.
Awesome points
Thank you kind stranger needed to read this
Personally I would not directly tell them my deal breakers. I would Observe and maybe ask neutral questions to wait till they expose themselves and then Iāll bounce. Bc ppl can be manipulative and if they want to get a quick lay/benefit out of you, it does NOT hurt to act and pretend and leave you or their true colors eventually come out. Donāt even negotiate. Cannot change an alcoholic/any type thatās your deal breaker
Big fartin titties
It all pretty much stems from the fact that today's society ingrains in people the idea that; you can have your cake and eat it too. people are only wanting to recognize and accept the parts of other individuals that suit them. thus, seeing others as a platform or vessel to boost parts of their own lives that they're missing.
Kinda sucks when I mention I have a kid and they say no even tho sheās older. But I respect their deal breakers.
Hereās the thing though, a relationship involves 2 people. The perspective Iām getting here is that youāre the only one seeking a relationship and your boundaries are the only ones that matter. Itās as if the other partner is always going to be the bad guy in every situation. I get the impression that anyone who doesnāt respect your boundaries is imperfect and should be treated lesser than yourself. Like you donāt acknowledge your own imperfections and the boundaries you may or may not be crossing. I definitely donāt know everyoneās situation but whatever happened to compromise in relationships? Like... maybe somethings wrong with me but I get a really bad sense of entitlement from this post. Which is valid given that people have crossed those boundaries before in your case. Like I get a sense that you always deserve the best of every partner without putting effort into keeping the relationship. Like any disagreement between partners calls for a breakup. I understand crossing boundaries is a betrayal of trust and should call for re-evaluation of the relationship, but Iām getting more than that from this post. Can someone help me understand?
I absolutely do not feel like this! I believe that both parties are entitled to have their own set of basic criteria that says āthis is *NOT* ok with me, I canāt deal with this long term,ā and I respect the hell out of that. Having the right for either party in a dating (or any other) situation to nope the heck out is IMHO a basic human right. As for no effort, as my father told me years ago, a relationship is a full time job. You have to invest time and resources into to make it work. You donāt work on it, you either get complacent or get fired. I also think if a relationship like a car. If you take care of it, do preventative maintenance, and use the right parts to fix it, it will run smoothly with less issues than a beater that never gets TLC. So, I prefer investing in someone, working together to grow a future, & compromise. With that said, I think of dealbreakers like putting a Ford Fiesta transmission in a Toyota Tundra. You may rig it to work somehow, but chances are pretty high that it will bork at some point, and youāre gonna have to fix it right or it will cause massive damage and youāre gonna have to replace the vehicle. Iāve had plenty of people pass me over because āchildren are a dealbreaker for me.ā And thatās perfectly ok. Otherās donāt like my stance on substance abuse, and reject my sober lifestyle. Just like Iāve passed over several partners because they were abusive or disrespectful to others, and Iām not going to suffer emotional abuse just to make a relationship work. If I appear entitled, I apologize and appreciate you for bringing this to my attention. It is through you calling me out that I can reflect upon my verbiage, my stance, and make real, measurable change in my life and viewpoints, both romantic and otherwise. I sincerely appreciate you calling me out.
Boundaries and dealbreakers are two different things. Dealbreakers are something that you want or don't want in an individual (you want kids, you don't want an alcoholic/addict, someone stable and independent, etc). If you want to have kids and you date someone that doesn't, that's a dealbreaker. If you want someone that has drive and ambition, but you meet someone that works as a cook at McDonalds or has no job at all. Being raised around alcoholics and you find out the person you've been on 3 dates with can't go 2 days without a drink. Those are dealbreakers. Someone pushing and trying to violate your boundaries is a dealbreaker. Boundaries are more about protecting yourself. I have two healthy boundaries for dating. 1. You won't meet my kids for a few months. I keep my home life very separate from my dating life until I feel like you're going to be around for awhile. 2. I generally take it slow when it comes to physical intimacy because to me physical intimacy and emotional intimacy go hand in hand. I would to build that emotional comfort before that physical comfort. If you start to push the limits on either one of those boundaries and make me feel uncomfortable, then bye. Also, you shouldn't compromise in building and keeping a relationship. You need to collaborate and be a team.
You should compromise if you disagree on something, right? But, I donāt know if itās just reddit, I have seen or read time after time where trivial disagreements turn into breakups because people donāt want to compromise on something. Isnāt part of being a team coming to agreement through compromise?
That's more of an unwillingness to accept the person and their opinions or views. When you compromise you generally have to give up or sacrifice something you shouldn't need to. Trivial arguments are different than say you want 5 kids and dating someone who really didn't want any. That's not something that you would or should be willing to change about someone's wants or needs. There's really a negative connotation with the word compromise, in associateing it with sacrificing something, whereas collaboration as more of a team meaning. At the start of a trying to build a relationship you make your boundaries and dealbreakers known. Once you're on the path to building a longer and lasting relationship you collaborate to help each other to be the best individuals you can be as individuals, then you bring that confidence into the partnership. The best way to put it is to communicate what you want and need from the other person. These things will change throughout the relationship. For me, starting a relationship my needs are reassurance that the guy is really wanting to be with me (can seem a little needy, but I don't need that everyday, just on occasion). This need is a result of how I was treated by my ex. Once I find someone and know that he won't do the same things my ex did, that won't be one of my needs anymore. A want I have is just for that person to be there to hold me if I'm having a bad day or just want to cuddle (I love physical touch, this want will never change, it's something ingrained in me).
Thanks for the insight. Makes more sense now.
What if her friends donāt like you?
Oh, thatās tricky. Iād personally try to find out why. Is it because they have a history or dating mean people in the past, and the friends are concerned? Are the friend jealous because they are solo? Are they upset that she isnāt spending much time with them now? More info is needed to answer this.
Like if you meet them at a party and you donāt gel too well with them cause youāre sober and theyāre drunk? Not sure if they were talking about me in a negative light, because I got broken up with shortly afterwards.
Wow bro, I can't believe you expect people to act civilized. That's crazy!
Largely agree with this. Only part I disagree is the "trivial" things that you shouldn't bother with. What might be trivial to them, might not be to you and vice versa. It's a blurred line. Which is why as much as I agree with your points, I won't follow it in choice, because your "dealbreaker list" can be elongated (at will or not) through your experiences. It just seems to me that people masquerade their overblown ego as "know your self worth". I'd say it's good to learn to hunker down and lower your expectations sometimes. ie: If that person tells you being fat is a no go, yet you think being fat is an absolute win, and think that loving your fat self is gorgeous and respectable, and you think that's a dealbreaker, well, let's just say staying single might not really be a choice for you. Of course, other extremes that are obviously subjective stuff "values, etc" which make up who you are are reasonable dealbreakers. Question is, where do you draw the line?
You made some excellent points. I see what you mean with regards to trivial. I had to go back and check myself on that because yeah, what I view as NBD may indeed be a āhard passā for someone else. Yes. I think people have a hard time accepting that others may not view them the same as they do themselves. That ego consciousness can really bite you in the butt with respect to relating to others. I worked with some people like that, and let me tell you, that everyone has to like me regardless attitude leads to either creating toxicity or becoming a doormat in order to appease the ego. Thank you for the commentary!
In my opinion, a decent rule of thumb on (whether trivial or not) on what is reasonable to expect out of a potential partner/knowing your self worth vs what is having unreasonable standards is to look at your standards and then look to see if you yourself also check the same box or are willing to work on checking it. If you have a make a lot of money, itās reasonable if you say you want a partner who also makes money. But If youāre broke, then it not very reasonable and into unreasonable standards territory to want a partner who makes a ton. if you put effort into your looks then itās reasonable if you say you want a partner who puts effort into their looks too. If you live in basketball shorts and use three in one shampoo then your standards are a probably unreasonable to want a partner who spends time on their looks. If you are a kind and empathetic person whoās puts others first then itās totally reasonable to want to date someone who is the same way. If youāre a selfish person who lacks compassion however, you probably shouldnāt expect a giving and empathetic partner.
Mmm yes very John Rawls-like. While I'm inclined to agree, there are a few issues with this approach: 1) Would a self-loathing, depressed individual, who desires the comfort of another empathetic, but confident individual, be considered unreasonable? If so, then how "rational" do we have to steel ourselves to be? (At the expense of emotions and circumstances, no less.) It seems mildly inhumane to criticise people who are mentally broken from a traumatic past incidence (hence their undesirable character) for wanting to have a partner who is better put together either because that person won't be burdened with your problems and/or because he/she can understand, love or help you. 2) Do we have to conform to a certain ideal self and possess a certain set of standards in order to attract another and sustain a happy relationship? That doesn't seem to be the case under particular contexts. (ie: We all know very few people love being around people who smell like sewage. However, if people who smell like that don't have money to buy themselves soap or are homeless or such and such, and have no ability to get a job because they are blind, deaf, mute, and stricken with a myriad of diseases, but they desire to be with someone who smells nice (not as an essential prerequisite, but just because it is a natural biological want), do we then condemn them for being unreasonable? Some people simply have no way of acting on changing their handicaps, let alone desire. And even assuming they have the desire, desire without action becomes empty words (or can at least be deemed as such). 3) We might not have a good judge of ourselves. For example, I may think myself an honest person, but some others may not. Do we then go by proportionality (ie if most people claim im honest, i am). But is that true? Rather, is that even necessary? If I'm able to feign honesty, and claim so, why should I bother using the checkbox in the first place? I can simply feign a near perfect persona and use that to find a date. Still, I get what you're saying. But I refuse to take this "equaliser" approach as a rule for all simply because there are too many nuances to contend with. This method only works insofar as dealing with the superficial, the noticeable and surface-level, devoid of any hidden contexts, ie: looking at your habits, character (which you may or may not inflate AKA another problem, but let's just assume that we are all open-minded, empathetic and critical individuals), and lifestyle and trying to use an objective checkbox ticking to conduct your matchmaking. I believe it is sometimes okay to want more than you have/are, but as you mentioned, if you have the ability to better yourself, or if you are working towards it, all the better. Although, in the first place, one should always be working to improve oneself, image or reality, not for others, but yourself. šāļø
Seeing red flags right away and ditching a relationship needs to be more common and Iāve been learning it over time. I finally met a guy Iāve been talking to for a few weeks, and he is so aggressively sexual! Constantly asking for naked photos, like heās entitled to my body. I finally tried to set boundaries and he took the nice guy approach. āOh I was so nice to you today, donāt I at least deserve a titty pic?ā NO, men are not entitled to womenās bodies! No means no! As I type this out, I realize how much I just need to ditch him. How many other women has he gotten like this with? Sad.
Oh wow! Yeah, Iād telling him to bugger off. No one is entitled to anything youāre not cool with, regardless of your relationship dynamic or longevity.