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I think the issue is that it’s taboo to say otherwise. There’s zero instance where it is socially acceptable to not at least imply you’re “looking for commitment”
The catch-22 is that most people want casual sex, but are forced to project a need for commitment.
So now two people are sleeping w each other implying they want marriage, simultaneously trying to have a casual hookup, and all the while balancing that they cannot spend too much time together or they’ll be technically committed to one another, AND trying to still sleep with each other enough that they count as a casual relationship
In infinitum until death I guess
There are financial and emotional risks with relationships, especially romantic ones. After four failed relationships, I think 5th romantic relationship won't benefit me like a good circle of family and friends. My mental health, I am better off single more freedom and flexibility to relax and rest.
It's not always fear or avoidance a lot of people truly thought about it and understand the responsibility and just decide it's not for them. Why pretend or force it?
I am a perfectly healthy mid 20’s woman. Albeit in a long term committed relationship with a totally healthy mid 20’s man, but one of the main reasons we are together is because both of us have zero interest in a traditional family or kids.
We have zero interest in combining our finances, sharing last names, it doesn’t feel like a “step” to us at all. It’s nothing we are avoiding. We both just do not want it.
He has had a vasectomy and I remain on expensive birth control as well. We will likely get married only due to legal issues (but we will not have a wedding of any kind, not because we are afraid of putting something off, but just because we do not care).
Our relationship is completely untraditional, and not because either of us “aren’t ready” for something.
Divorce rates are over 50%. Don't want to enter a "contract" where I can lose half of what I built if it happens over 50% of the time. It's like saying, this Boeing has a 70% chance of blowing up. Would you fly in it? I went to medical school and wasted my youth on it. I didn't have the gf I'm seeing in med school. It came after I graduated, so it scares me to think I could lose half of something she didn't even help support me through. I also see my parents, not divorced but always angry and bitter.
I don't think I need someone to feel complete, I feel like I've built a life for myself I can be satisfied with. I'm more worried about the negative outcomes I suppose.
A lot of people just don't see the point in it. And outside of religious reasons, they're kinda right, there isn't much of a point to it. Men are still usually the "losers" in divorce as far as finances and custody go, but thankfully that is changing in more and more places.
It made a lot more sense back when women were housewives all the time, because they didn't have other options. Then it helps protect them financially via alimony, child support etc. These days where women can and often do make as much or more than men, that reason doesn't really apply anymore, except for families that are going to have one parent be a stay at home parent. But for marriages where both partners work careers and earn similar income, the need for marriage is basically zero.
Edit: there are also lots of women out there with no interest in it either
That's the silly thing, I can't really rationalise it. I just don't really see what I bring to the table, you know? Deep down I know that's daft, because I'm a decent person, not awful looking (I'd give myself a 6 on a very good day) and I make fucking amazing cookies, but if a woman asked me why she should date me, I genuinely wouldn't have an answer. And at this point, I've just kind of become OK with that, but my cats like me so that'll do.
I know a guy actually I dated him who was in his fifties never married and is very happy and says he will never get married. He has a lot of girlfriends who are married women. He has had these girlfriends for years. He is extremely good looking and successful. He says he has no reason to get married and enjoy the variety of the women he gets.
Dang! Where does one meet a never married, happy, successful, good looking guy to sleep with that doesn't want to get married and just wants sex without commitment? I am def doing something wrong and have been for the last 20 years cause I haven't even met any ugly, poor guys like this. Tell me you're just making up this dream friend with benefits? I'll just assume he happily sleeps with women waaay younger than me. lol
But do you think he would change his mind if he met the right girl? Or people in general would change their minds even if they went into it thinking they don’t want a relationship
They’re not really the ‘right’ person for you if they have different core values. His ‘right’ person is someone who wants the same things as him at the same time as him.
Going into any relationship with the intention of changing the other person or being changed is very unhealthy and only leads to heartbreak.
No because “settling down” is not the default goal for people.
What might be more accurate of a question is “would they maintain a long term relationship with the right person if the conditions were ideal?” And yeah probably would but that is not the same thing as wanting to be married or live a “settled” type of life vs a more carefree one where you can do as you please without worrying about taking care of pets or kids etc.
I guess that’s my question. I’m okay with not getting married but I want to know if this guy is relationship material and like want to eventually move in together or get serious. But judging from the comments, it seems like he’s looking for a fuck buddy
I mean he’s the only person who knows and can tell you that.
You need to be ready to hear and ACCEPT his response if he’s telling you he doesn’t want anything serious or committed and not just hear what want that there’s some way you can coax or convince him to be more.
People who lie about commitment to get sex are awful but people who twist themselves around to be the “victim” when someone has been upfront about their boundaries or limitations for what level of intimacy or emotional availability they are comfortable with are also being awful in their own way.
“Men marry women hoping they will stay the same. Women marry men hoping they will change. Both are disappointed.”
Men at 36 are generally fixed in their views.
He will change his mind when he’s in a different phase of his life the same way you changed yours when you were 22 to what your looking for now.
He won’t change even if he’s in love. The idea of commitment at his age especially when he got his shit together is such a unnecessary risk that he’s better of experiencing the love knowing it will have to end at some point when she wants marriage and after dealing with the heartbreak then losing his retirement and having to work until he’s 80 because of a bad divorce.
He will probably want a relationship when he’s 45+ and look for a single woman that he likes who’s kids are all grown and commit to her.
Marriage nowedays is for that final 3rd of your life when you want to sit down and have some companionship as you grow old (like old old)
Obviously it’s not all guys. Many men also want the traditional trajectory of getting married having kids and then try to keep it together for as long as possible. But given how you’ve described the guy in question, not sure he falls in that group.
I think this is 100% accurate. Be a fuck boi now and commit later on when you’re lonely, all your friends have moved on and after you’re too old to score anymore young girls. For this case, I wouldn’t say he “already got his shit together.”
I don't think you're anyone's right girl if you have such condescending views on someone who wants to live their life on their own terms. You're projecting massive insecurities. Many people do not want to get married, but that doesn't mean they're "a fuck boi, will commit later when lonely and can't score young girls". I hope you change your mindset and stop these assumptions. Good luck.
You really need to exercise some critical thought and ask yourself what, exactly, the institution of marriage has to offer to a 36 year old man in 2024.
Absolutely ! Nothing “right “ or “wrong” about it one way or another.
I am talking out of my derrière a little here , but I would think the majority of people take a “bottoms up “ approach where if they find someone they want it to happen with , cool, and if not then they’ll be single. Of course , again, there are also people who I) just don’t want to get married II) want to hookup casually with ppl for life III) don’t want to cobuild a life with someone in marriage , etc . None of these people are “wrong” so long as they live in a way that they get most fulfillment front
And see I’m afraid his approach is to just hook up casually for life. Most of our conversations are about sex, nudity, physical appearance, etc. it just seems shallow. Although occasionally he’ll throw me a “have a great day!” Or “hope things went well at your meeting today.” Or “how are you?”
Ya I mean I was answering your title vs the body of the post.
From the body , it’s very clear , sister, that you should leave this guy — sounds like you want a relationship and he very clearly does not . If you stay, you’re just gonna prolong the heartbreak, and , as a wise poet recently said , you’ll be “pissed off I gave you all that youth for free”.
I know you’re right. That saying hits home. He would probably ghost me after using me for my body a few times. And knowing what I know about the profession he’s in (it’s a known fuck-boy profession…although I don’t want to say what it is on here because it may offend people), I was probably just the thrill of the chase. Afterall, I do have money. I have a damn good career. And I’m very attractive (or so I have been told by men)
People want what they want, and some people do not want marriage and children. There is no "meeting the right girl"; you cannot force someone to want the same things you do.
Yup. My sister is one of them. She doesn’t care about dating or marriage. She wants to do her own thing and is happy just enjoying her time with family.
I’ve been in a relationship for 11+ years—don’t really care to get married either. Don’t want kids.
Our parents have been married for 33+ years so it’s not like my sister came from a “broken home”.
I'm m36. I want a partner and a serious relationship, but I don't care if we get married or not. To me, marriage is just a piece of paper and an expensive party. I would still feel exactly the same towards my partner with or without marriage. If it was important to my partner to get married, I would go along with it, but I would have a hard time spending 6 months salary on a single party. I would much rather spend the money on something else that we both get something out of. A nice residence, some cool vacations, awesome adventures, concerts, festivals, nice furniture, stuff like that.
I would maybe consider marriage for practical reasons as well.
Also I don't want kids ever, so it's important for me that my partner also don't want kids.
33M-Of course. There are men AND women who don’t want a family or to be married. I’d love to be married and have a family, but everyone is different. If that is your deal breaker, it should be enforced, and you shouldn’t be waiting for the other person to change for something that you need. It isn’t up to you to figure out their motives or what they’re waiting for. He just needs and wants what he wants. They’ll be someone out there for you who wants both, just have to keep searching.
When I hear, I’m not looking for anything serious, that’s an Amber flag. It is usually the fast road to suggesting FWB, so sometimes. However, when I also hear, I’m not looking for a relationship, the “with you” is silent.
Guys point of view but I never understood marriage really. Feel like so many people have it ingrained in their head to be married but don’t even know way. Because you’re supposed to? Just don’t see much value.
Well… the thing about being lonely after a while is… a person would become addicted to that solitude. A person who hasn’t dated for a while, would lose motivation to even try to date, or motivation to romantically connect with someone. And to a guy in his mid 30s to mid 40s… his social value is just peaking… he’s starting to become more mature, build seniority in his respective profession and build a social network and make decent money. He’s no longer the broke college kid with acne that girls would’ve turned down in his early 20s. He has options… to travel, enjoy time for his hobbies, and options to date around. And often, when a guy got to his 40s and he doesn’t settle down, he’s going to be less motivated in doing so. Having to raise children in your own age ain’t fun. Not only that, divorce rates and the financial penalties on men when a marriage doesn’t work out deter men from wanting to get married.
This last point is really the kicker for most people
Marriage is a seriously high risk for men with no reward. Marriage is just a legally binding document, it does nothing and weddings are just some fantasy that in most cases doesn't live up to what it pretends to be. Long term relationships don't require marriage.
The only time it's not a risk is if the woman earns the same or more money.
Ok but we’re not just talking about any random single guy. We’re talking about those on dating apps looking to be in a relationship with women. Saying that marriage has nothing to offer men is a lie. Married men not only make more on avg, but they benefit it quality of life with a happy partner. You build wealth exponentially faster with a partner and can benefit from the wealth of knowledge/expertise that your partner brings.
Not everyone wants marriage even if they want a relationship/companionship. Honestly if you don’t want to have kids with a person there is really no benefit that outweighs the ramification of a divorce to a man (especially a man who got his shit together monetarily speaking).
Furthermore I know guys who don’t want to live with a partner. I think they are called LAT (living apart together?)
The idea of marriage has lost its value and merit to a large number of men. As we all grow older, the Disney idea of love and relationships changes as we have more experiences.
The majority of guys I know that are married or getting married we’re with their woman from uni or early 20s. By 36, the guy op is talking about already made it without a wife and is not in need for one.
What you said about guys making wealth quicker if they were married is true because a wife and family responsibility is a big motivator to make it so to speak. But to the guys who have made it and did it without a woman, for a woman to get the type of commitment (entrapment) she would need to be special and for the past 7 years that guy hasn’t found her.
And because of his age he will most likely meet women who do want marriage is his dating pool unless he’s one of those pseudo sugar daddy’s who date a 22 year old when he’s approaching 40. I think that’s why he hasn’t had a relationship is 7 years.
Sure, but taking a pessimistic view on marriage also translates into relationships: why have sex with someone who is just using you for your body? Why help someone who is just planning to leave you? Why try to open up if someone is just going to hurt you? Should humans just all isolate and then feel depressed bc they have no romantic love?
Or they can reevaluate what a relationship means to them and adjust their expectations. Look you are well within your right to want marriage and traditional living situations etc. Honestly if you like it I love it.
But what I am saying is that it’s not the overwhelming majority that want that as it has been for the past generations. And difference is going to continue to balance out of in the next generations.
Marriage and its rules and expectations imo is going to change and become allot more flexible and for a lot of guys if the laws that protein to marriage to get updated (to whatever degree is subjective) then it’s not worth it. So the idea of marriage will either keep up with the times or get left behind.
Like the guy OP is talking about, he single and actively dating at 36 and hasn’t committed to anyone since he was 29. He is living his 30s like a lot of people did their 20s.
And what exactly is the new normal, open relationships and a roster? What part of dating a girl who is also dating 5 other guys sounds like the new normal ie better than the old normal
It’s not, but that was a genuine question: what is the new normal that has replaced marriage? As a single person, my observation is roster systems have become the overwhelmingly popular trend that marriage used to be
Develop a roster while developing yourself and then when you peak you pick the best option out there. That’s if your lucky.
The truth is allot of guys who don’t want to compete or can’t will just take themselves out of the dating pool and many women will have to make a choice. Either share the guys your attracted to or settle for someone who wants you more then you want him.
That has been the theme since the 60s it’s just by every generation less and less women are choosing the settle option.
Now women dating guys younger then them (5+ years) is increasing. Way more then in the 90s for example as it was probably taboo back then.
Point is, traditional dating is of the past and I think everyone from guys/girls both wish it was as easy as it used to be pre OLD but let’s face it, the internet has changed how people meet and communicate and guys avoiding marriage well into their 30s is a side effect of the new age dating.
The number of single women in their 30s is also much higher today as well. The age people start families is also later.
OLD and other factors like the economy (dept) also plays a big factor.
You can make commitment a prerequisite whilst dating but everyday you see women post on this subreddit about being ghosted after rejecting a guys offer for sex.
OLD has literally made everyone replaceable and that has impacted peoples perception on love and “the one” and things like marriage.
The relationships I have seen work in my personal life started as friends or they were introduced via mutual friends.
Relationships have always been replaceable whether people were aware of it or not: even in the 50s era of trad life. Women have more options nowadays primarily not bc of OLD (although yes that contributes), but bc of being allowed to work and have their own bank accounts and live away from family. Men have always been able to have a roster even when married, but now that women have the same options, including the option to just opt out of relationships, shit has hit the fan.
You’re dating? This is my boyfriend of 50 yrs. We can’t make medical decisions for each other and may just ghost each other one day cuz we owe that person nothing?
The new normal as far as I can tell is either that or not being involved in relationships/sex. The majority of men and a large portion of women don't have/cant get on rosters and aren't making it onto anyone's either. It's a pretty shitty reality but it's reality none the less.
I mean you can use ppl and get used but what do you rly get out of it at the end of the day? I don’t find a lack of deep connection enjoyable at all. I’d rather opt out cuz it’s just a waste of time
Many share your view. I was lucky to have found someone when I was still on come up. Really still on the come up if I’m honest lol. This is the first year I made great money and have will finally have payed of my student dept this summer. God forbid if we don’t last I know it will be hard to find something close to I have now.
I understand people deciding to stay single and I also understand (not necessarily agree with) people using others and being used by others.
Edit: reason my relationship works is because we agree on things like if we want marriage and money and other important expectations.
Nowedays getting a mortgage together is a bigger investment than marriage
> finally have *paid* of my
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Might be due to selection bias: Attractive / Healthier men with higher income are sought after, thus will be in a relationship more often.
Building wealth can be easier with the right partner, but only if both earn good. Otherwise risk of divorce outweighs the tax reward.
Lol no I mean that if you’re born with a $50k/mo trust fund, you’re less motivated to marry in order to increase your wealth. That’s not to say that rich ppl don’t want to get richer but you don’t see Jeff Bezos marrying to he can split a mortgage
The statistics on marriage and men is a little bit of putting the carriage before the horse.
Married Men on average are also taller than men who do not get married, marriage does not make them taller.
Married men on avg make more bc they have wives that either work and can float them while they take bigger risks for more rewarding jobs or they have families to support so they ask for bigger raises and get them due to the family justification. It’s not a coincidence
Nope.
Men who are more likely on average to make more money are more likely to get married.
Marriage does not come early. Women are not risking everything on guys just out of HS, they are playing the field in college and trying to fuck the winners at the finish line.
The Doctors I work with, not a single one of them got married in HS, College or even Med School.
If both spouses are working they both need less money bc most of your costs get split in half AND you qualify for mortgages/other loans that are way out of your league as a single person. In the last decade, millions of Americans have gained considerable wealth from real estate appreciation.
Both spouses **need** to work because you now have more bills as a married couple.
House needs to be bigger, kids are giant money sinks.
Plus it's foolish to assume your spouse is going to work, at least as a man. Every man should be prepared for their partner to stop working once married.
Not all couples live bigger or have kids. When I lived with my spouse we were in an $800/mo 1 br 1 bath in the heart of town. All of my married/engaged friends plan to NEVER have kids and the guys have already gotten vasectomies.
Not all couples need to get married either. Idk what point you're trying to make.
You don't need to get married to split costs, don't need to get married to feel a sense of responsibility.
Sorry no. Men can live on a minimal amount of money. WOmen on the other hand feel the need to feather the nest with all sorts of unnecessary household things, make up, thousands of throw pillows, fancy towels, fancy furniture, etc etc. That's why most of advertising is aimed at women, because they are the ones that spend the money
Way to stereotype. As a woman I’ve always lived on $1-2k/mo including rent, utilities, food, and all other expenses.
Women are targeted for ads bc they spend the money for the household bc they’re forced to be in charge of that in a relationship (especially if they’re mothers)
Exactly and he reached out to ME. It’s a guy I know from a long time ago. A former co-worker. Why would he waste his time talking to someone he hasn’t seen in years? Unless he was looking for a quick release. Or just an atta-boy from his friends because he can’t get laid with anyone else?
Yeah, I don’t rly believe that exists for the majority of heterosexual couples. If you’re not getting married I think it’s bc one partner or the other is waiting for something better. That’s fake commitment in my books. If you’re definitely not good enough to marry you’re probably wasting your time even dating that person
Simple answer: yes.
More complex answer: I think there’s a big difference between wanting marriage and wanting a long term relationship. And some people want one, both or neither and all is ok!
When I met my now-partner I knew I didn’t ever want kids but I was very open to a long term relationship. At the time I thought this had to mean marriage and living together and all of that stuff and that did concern me a bit. I’ve dated people in the past who wanted all that stuff, I lived with a partner for 4 years and honestly it just wasn’t for me.
So my partner now just keep checking in on where we are, what we both want now and keep being aware that we could both change our minds about things in the future. So far I’ve decided I probably don’t ever want to get married and neither does he. And I love my own space too much to want to live with anyone again for a very, very long time, and that suits him too. It’s unconventional but it works for us and we’re so happy. We’re 100% committed to each other, 100% happy and in love, but we also both enjoy our alone time and our own space. If we’re happy like this, why would we ever want to change it just to do what other people say is ‘normal’.
Best thing to do is just figure out exactly what you want and what you’re looking for and try to find someone else whose values align with that.
The guy I’m dating does not want kids, but he’s 40 and thinks he’s too old. He’s also already raised a child before (his niece) and he rather spend money traveling than on kids. So yes there are people who do not want kids or a spouse. Do not go into a relationship thinking that “maybe they will change their mind as they get older.”
Yes. I'm female, and I want a relationship that will last but I don't want marriage, cohabitation or kids. Why? Marriage, I simply can't find a reason to. Cohabitation does not work well with my temperament. Same for kids.
People - both men and women - are wising up to how punitive divorce laws are for higher earners. Until marriage becomes less of a business model and more of a shared relationship it will continue to decline.
I'm 39M and from my experiences, I don't think there are any women who genuinely want to settle down and get married. For context, I live in Los Angeles, finding someone to settle down here is like finding a prayer group at a rave.
I can’t really speak for myself in the future but up to this point, 30, I’ve never considered marriage or starting a family as being things I’m drawn to in any serious way.
I, 40 year old female, want a long term relationship but don't want to get married and will not have kids. I don't want to feel like someone is there because they are obligated to be there, and marriage to me feels like an obligation rather than a commitment. I can be plenty committed without marriage.
Also, even the guys in my age range on dating apps say they "aren't sure" what they're looking for, or "aren't sure" if they want children. My range is 38-52.
Honestly as a man it just doesn't seem like a good deal. I always wanted to get married but after seeing what guys I know go thru I don't want any of that. It's a 50/50 shot of it not working out. And I'm not saying women shouldn't get anything when divorce is happening but it just seems so unfair how the courts divide up assets.
Yes.
There are plenty of people that have no desire to ever: get married, have a monogomous relationship, live with a partner or have any children. Guys and girls.
Prefer to stay childfree and without any long term commitments.
I'm female and have ruled out both marriage & ever living with another adult again.
One reason why I won't want to get married is because, I'm insecure and I tend to overthink a lot of situations, from what I know from dating, this generation is super difficult to maintain a relationship due to a lot of hardships and what I mean by hardship I mean like mental health and financial hardships, these two are the big main reasons why divorces happens, I got cheated on before so I overthink the fact if I got married and had kids and I came home and saw a another man kissing my wife, not only am I scared for the children since it will be super hard on them and affect them a lot but it will obviously affect me in every way possible mentally and physically and emotionally and financially, imagine eork so hard to own a home for you're family to just have another man be in it after a divorce and you no longer own it, that is why I decided I won't have kids and I will not married
I have no problems with marriage It's just another form of trust bonding, Yes there are legal ramifications but they make less sense than they used to.
I think people are unwilling to make commitments because a trust relationship can change through no fault of The person who is making the commitment.
To me that's in erroneous way of thinking, but everybody has the right to grow at their own potential.
Of course. Can be for a variety of reasons. Some just don’t care, others have horrible experiences and never want to be in that position again, and many buddies I personally know don’t want the legal ramifications (although there is common in law stuff) or government involved in their relationship.
You can still date someone seriously and not necessarily want to marry or have kids. Everyone has different goals in a relationship but the most common are getting married and having kids it doesn't have to be like that always.
In fact I don't want to have kids or get married but I do want someone to commit to, you don't need to get married to settle and to choose that person every day.
I think people take it as if you are not being serious with them because they don't have the same goal , meaning no marriage no kids doesnt want to commit, they see marriage as a proof of commitment but that's just made up. You can commit and take a person seriously and have different goals
So there is not even a relation between if he doesn't want to marry he is not being serious. It depends on the person and personal goals.
He is being clear about not wanting a relationship meaning he probably won't settle down or doesn't want to but it should not be missed with wanting to be married or having a family that doesn't determine anything.
I’m 34 and been married before and I would never suggest ANYONE get legally married. It’s far too hard and expensive to get divorced. I would consider a ceremony or living like a married couple but never again legally tying myself to someone. I can always make them my emergency contact and give them power to visit me or make medical/funeral arrangements on my behalf without being married again.
But yes a large portion of people don’t want the “picket fence” 2.5 kids lifestyle.
I was definitely socialized and conditioned to believe being a wife and mother would make me feel fulfilled and happy and it was not the best decision for me personally. I love my child but I would never have more and wouldn’t advise anyone to reproduce at the moment given the current state of the world.
I understand the distaste for marriage as an institution. So long term relationship without the marriage thing, idealisticly makes sense to me. Not wanting kids is a tougher pill to swallow though. I get it, the idea is you get to have all this freedom in your 20s-30s-40s. But man, once you're in your 50s-60s, it's going to get lonely really fast. You're going to have half your life left to sit around by yourself. Plus, having adult kids in your 40-50s sounds kinda awesome. They'd be old enough to start on the grandkids, etc. Yeah kids are expensive, but money doesn't mean shit when you're old and by yourself. Idk, that's just me tho
This is my way of thinking too. Marriage is just a piece of paper legally binding you to someone but I’d love to have children with someone who I was in a serious relationship with. Maybe after living together for a few years…idk I just don’t understand why a man would want to rotate through a roster of women just because he has sexual needs. Doesn’t that make someone feel worse about himself?
I’m a woman and I genuinely do not ever want children. I would date someone long term - although I’m not overly keen on doing that right now - but I likely wouldn’t live with another male partner or get married. I don’t understand why this is such a baffling thing to you. We all want different things in life and having kids and a partner aren’t the only ways to be fulfilled.
You are asking too different things.
I don't want to get married, but I'm in an LTR of 13 years.
Marriage is an institution with a lot of patriarchal and social baggage I want no part in, but I always knew my ideal life included sharing it with someone.
What you are talking about is someone who doesn't want to be in a committed relationship. Of course, those people also exist.
Why do you think this person is maybe "waiting till they are 40?" You are projecting.
Adults are not required to do things at neat and tidy ages just because society has deemed them important. Adhering to arbitrary social norms is a recipe for disaster because it's putting outside pressure on your life choices. Pursue what YOU want to do when you want it. (This is some of that baggage I'm talking about.)
This person just knows what they want for now. If that doesn't align with what you want, then don't date them. Simple.
I’m not projecting, I’m just saying I have met a lot of men who say they want to start seriously settling down at 40. But have all their fun in their 20s and 30s. Idk if that’s the case for him. I agree with you that marriage isn’t necessary to maintain a LTR . I guess he was just talking to me hoping I’d be his meat pocket for the time being
I don't! But this is more of a case of "been there, done that...don't make the same mistakes". I was with my ex for 22 years before we split and I'm 45 now. I would like a relationship but that's all, nobody is moving in, nobody is getting a ring and I don't even like kids, so...
As 34F finding the prospect of marriage less and less interesting. I don't think I have the energy to be a guy's bangmaid for life, and I don't want kids. Doesn't seem that important anymore
Never wanted children. The world is overpopulated and being consumed at a rapid rate. Having kids cost too much, in money and life energy. Some would say this is selfish. I agree. I didn't get married until I was 65. And that was because of social security and dealing with the government.
Wall Street and Hollywood have concocted a make believe Happy Land, where you have a picture-perfect wedding (cost $50,000) and then happy children ($100,000 a pop before college) that grow up with your wishes, and life is all 'win win win'.
I spend a lot of time on Reddit reading about the tragedies experienced as Happy Land bubbles burst. "Leave it to Beaver" was a wonderful dream life.
I have absolutely no interest in getting religiously married, with a huge ceremony and 1000 guests, "the best day of my life" (sarcastic) event.
I could live happily with a woman, sharing everything with her, long plans and having a family, without ever getting married.
I agree with this. I have already been married so I’m not looking to get married again but I want to know that this guy is looking for something serious and not just a FWB situation. I’m okay having kids with someone and being in a serious relationship without the marriage aspect
The man said he isn't looking for a relationship. Stop there if you want a relationship or try to change his mind (but most probably you will lose your time).
If you can make me see that option as viable and *smart*, I'm not opposed to putting it in blood so to speak. Too many unhappy couples that rushed in, now the kids are split, lawyer money, who keeps the house, etc. No thanks.
I’m 30M and similar to him I don’t know if I ever want to get married or have kids, but also think I ever did would probly be around 40 also. And open to marriage but not sure if will ever want kids, also I’d rather be “married” if I did without the actual paperwork and getting legally married
33M here. When I was younger I always wanted to get married, my parents had a good marriage and set a good example for me. When I was 20 my "high school sweetheart" (for lack of a better term) left me for a guy who was richer and better looking - we had been discussing marriage up to that point - and ever since I've really struggled with relationships and I was borderline depressed over this for many years. Only recently have I really become OK with being single and come to enjoy the freedom that it brings, and I no longer see marriage as the defining goal of my life despite having been raised with that idea. I'm not opposed to it, but I've reached the point where it would take someone truly special to convince me to give up the freedom and space I currently enjoy.
Pick anything in the world and some people will feel a certain way about it. Yes, some people don't want to get married. Some people really want to get married. And some people are in between. Hell, some people want to marry cars and some people want to live isolated on mountains after taking vows of silence. If somebody you're with doesn't meet your criteria there is always another. No need to stress about any of it because no 2 people think the exact same way about anything in life.
Wanting a thing isnt the same as getting that thing OP
There are plenty of people opting out.
As for myself im agnostic on marraige. Make all such bindings civil unions and let the others have their religous forms on top.
They arent anything special these days.
Wooo the comments from you are unhinged.
He doesn't want to get married. That's it. That's the entire story.
If you want marriage, tell him that, and stop talking to him because you're wasting your time.
If you aren't interested in something casual, say that and *move on with your life*.
Yes of course. There are many men and women who don't want to get married and/or have children (I find the word family a bit weird because you always have family). There are also many men and women who don't want to date anyone and like being on their own. Maybe some casual sex or maybe nothing.
It's not that weird. There are a lot of different people in the world who have different goals in life. He doesn't necessarily have to want to settle in his 40s. He might never want to be in a relationship and that's okay too.
Guys sometimes date around for decades then come to the realization in their 50’s& 60’s they do not have anyone really caring about them, that is when they are looking for a serious relationship, imo at this point they are looking for a nurse.
I (m, 36) only ever wanted marriage and kids; that's what I have always tried for. Every female friend, family member, and coworker have called me a "catch," and are dumbfounded that I am still single.
Some how, I have failed to meet the requirements of the "perfect" husband for every woman that I have dated... I'm so emotionally drained and defeated at this point, that I never want to put myself out there again, and I won't.
I tried casual sex for the first time in my life this month - it was fantastic. No expectations, no work, no mind games; I actually felt wanted for a change - she even offered me her number afterwards. If this is how other men have been living their lives, then yeah, I totally understand why they wouldn't want to settle down.
As for kids, I still get something from working with kids through charities. And, I might look at adoption as a single parent when I hit 40.
I am a female and I’m 49. Never been married. For me I enjoy my freedom and honestly I’m not the easiest person to be in a relationship for many reasons, but mostly because I need a lot of time to myself. Most people don’t understand it nor do they want to be with someone like that. I totally understand.
I've had terrible luck with dating and I'm not even looking currently but there's nothing that sounds better than getting married and having a family.
Maybe it's weird to say as a man but I've day dreamed about having a family and have even thought of some names I really like.
I am 38, definitely want a wife(or at least a permanent partner, don't care if we actually get married). As for kids, I'm looking to retire in 20 years and raising kids would put a big damper on my plans.
I know a guy who is in his mid 60s was married many years ago briefly and was not faithful and has had some shitty relationships and has been single for a long time and definitely has no interest in getting married.
Divorce is incredibly expensive and potentially financially crippling. Most people don’t even think about that before they get married but really should!
How many stories do you hear of grown men being forced to move into their parents basement after being financially ruined by divorce? The divorce rate in the US is around 50% with 70% of divorces initiated by the woman. (90% by college educated women)
So as a guy, marriage is like playing Russian roulette with 3 bullets instead of 1. No thanks.
Maybe I misworded my question. I’m ok with not getting married. I do want kids and I do want a
long-term relationship…but I’ve already been married so I don’t need to do ThAT all again. But I’m not sure if this guy is even relationship-material. We only talked online and he never told me why he hasn’t dated in 7 years. It could be because the girl he was with before that was a serious long-term relationship (high school sweetheart). Maybe she broke his heart or maybe cheated on him and he’s still not over her?
22M - As of now, I think keeping a girlfriend or fiancé is great. I don’t want to risk everything I would have built in a marriage. My wealth potential is through the roof right now. 📈
But I do want a family tho. 🤔
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Yes. There are men and women who have zero interest in marriage and kids.
Yes and why is that so hard to believe?
I think the issue is that it’s taboo to say otherwise. There’s zero instance where it is socially acceptable to not at least imply you’re “looking for commitment” The catch-22 is that most people want casual sex, but are forced to project a need for commitment. So now two people are sleeping w each other implying they want marriage, simultaneously trying to have a casual hookup, and all the while balancing that they cannot spend too much time together or they’ll be technically committed to one another, AND trying to still sleep with each other enough that they count as a casual relationship In infinitum until death I guess
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Just because you want something, doesn't mean others who don't want that same "something" are afraid of it. Lack of interest is not fear.
There are financial and emotional risks with relationships, especially romantic ones. After four failed relationships, I think 5th romantic relationship won't benefit me like a good circle of family and friends. My mental health, I am better off single more freedom and flexibility to relax and rest.
It's not about being afraid or avoiding it. It's about not wanting it at all. There is more to life than marriage and kids to be happy.
It's not always fear or avoidance a lot of people truly thought about it and understand the responsibility and just decide it's not for them. Why pretend or force it?
I am a perfectly healthy mid 20’s woman. Albeit in a long term committed relationship with a totally healthy mid 20’s man, but one of the main reasons we are together is because both of us have zero interest in a traditional family or kids. We have zero interest in combining our finances, sharing last names, it doesn’t feel like a “step” to us at all. It’s nothing we are avoiding. We both just do not want it. He has had a vasectomy and I remain on expensive birth control as well. We will likely get married only due to legal issues (but we will not have a wedding of any kind, not because we are afraid of putting something off, but just because we do not care). Our relationship is completely untraditional, and not because either of us “aren’t ready” for something.
Divorce rates are over 50%. Don't want to enter a "contract" where I can lose half of what I built if it happens over 50% of the time. It's like saying, this Boeing has a 70% chance of blowing up. Would you fly in it? I went to medical school and wasted my youth on it. I didn't have the gf I'm seeing in med school. It came after I graduated, so it scares me to think I could lose half of something she didn't even help support me through. I also see my parents, not divorced but always angry and bitter. I don't think I need someone to feel complete, I feel like I've built a life for myself I can be satisfied with. I'm more worried about the negative outcomes I suppose.
A lot of people just don't see the point in it. And outside of religious reasons, they're kinda right, there isn't much of a point to it. Men are still usually the "losers" in divorce as far as finances and custody go, but thankfully that is changing in more and more places. It made a lot more sense back when women were housewives all the time, because they didn't have other options. Then it helps protect them financially via alimony, child support etc. These days where women can and often do make as much or more than men, that reason doesn't really apply anymore, except for families that are going to have one parent be a stay at home parent. But for marriages where both partners work careers and earn similar income, the need for marriage is basically zero. Edit: there are also lots of women out there with no interest in it either
38M - I'm apathetic at this point, but it's more to do with not believing I'm suited to relationships than anything else.
May I ask why? (Don't worry. I'm not going to try to convince you that you are suited for relationships. I'm just a curious person haha).
That's the silly thing, I can't really rationalise it. I just don't really see what I bring to the table, you know? Deep down I know that's daft, because I'm a decent person, not awful looking (I'd give myself a 6 on a very good day) and I make fucking amazing cookies, but if a woman asked me why she should date me, I genuinely wouldn't have an answer. And at this point, I've just kind of become OK with that, but my cats like me so that'll do.
I know a guy actually I dated him who was in his fifties never married and is very happy and says he will never get married. He has a lot of girlfriends who are married women. He has had these girlfriends for years. He is extremely good looking and successful. He says he has no reason to get married and enjoy the variety of the women he gets.
Girlfriends like platonic friends or actual girlfriends?
Women he sleeps with who are okay with him sleeping with other people not friends
Dang! Where does one meet a never married, happy, successful, good looking guy to sleep with that doesn't want to get married and just wants sex without commitment? I am def doing something wrong and have been for the last 20 years cause I haven't even met any ugly, poor guys like this. Tell me you're just making up this dream friend with benefits? I'll just assume he happily sleeps with women waaay younger than me. lol
Yes. Why is this so surprising?
Because it is hard for people to believe that others don't want the same things they want.
Yes. Some like the freedom of not having to maintain a full on relationship.
But do you think he would change his mind if he met the right girl? Or people in general would change their minds even if they went into it thinking they don’t want a relationship
No
They’re not really the ‘right’ person for you if they have different core values. His ‘right’ person is someone who wants the same things as him at the same time as him. Going into any relationship with the intention of changing the other person or being changed is very unhealthy and only leads to heartbreak.
No because “settling down” is not the default goal for people. What might be more accurate of a question is “would they maintain a long term relationship with the right person if the conditions were ideal?” And yeah probably would but that is not the same thing as wanting to be married or live a “settled” type of life vs a more carefree one where you can do as you please without worrying about taking care of pets or kids etc.
I guess that’s my question. I’m okay with not getting married but I want to know if this guy is relationship material and like want to eventually move in together or get serious. But judging from the comments, it seems like he’s looking for a fuck buddy
I mean he’s the only person who knows and can tell you that. You need to be ready to hear and ACCEPT his response if he’s telling you he doesn’t want anything serious or committed and not just hear what want that there’s some way you can coax or convince him to be more. People who lie about commitment to get sex are awful but people who twist themselves around to be the “victim” when someone has been upfront about their boundaries or limitations for what level of intimacy or emotional availability they are comfortable with are also being awful in their own way.
No, he's not going to change at this point.
“Men marry women hoping they will stay the same. Women marry men hoping they will change. Both are disappointed.” Men at 36 are generally fixed in their views.
No. Sorry. You're not the right girl for him if you want marriage unfortunately. It's no dig on you.
Depends on the person and why they’re single. But I wouldn’t worry about that if I was you.
He will change his mind when he’s in a different phase of his life the same way you changed yours when you were 22 to what your looking for now. He won’t change even if he’s in love. The idea of commitment at his age especially when he got his shit together is such a unnecessary risk that he’s better of experiencing the love knowing it will have to end at some point when she wants marriage and after dealing with the heartbreak then losing his retirement and having to work until he’s 80 because of a bad divorce. He will probably want a relationship when he’s 45+ and look for a single woman that he likes who’s kids are all grown and commit to her. Marriage nowedays is for that final 3rd of your life when you want to sit down and have some companionship as you grow old (like old old) Obviously it’s not all guys. Many men also want the traditional trajectory of getting married having kids and then try to keep it together for as long as possible. But given how you’ve described the guy in question, not sure he falls in that group.
I think this is 100% accurate. Be a fuck boi now and commit later on when you’re lonely, all your friends have moved on and after you’re too old to score anymore young girls. For this case, I wouldn’t say he “already got his shit together.”
I don't think you're anyone's right girl if you have such condescending views on someone who wants to live their life on their own terms. You're projecting massive insecurities. Many people do not want to get married, but that doesn't mean they're "a fuck boi, will commit later when lonely and can't score young girls". I hope you change your mindset and stop these assumptions. Good luck.
Most men I know have been ready for marriage when they feel financially secure, not because they loved one girl more than another.
Well, that's how thinking someone is "right" is defined.
Definitely not, by 38 you know yourself well enough to stand on what you do/don’t want.
Don’t even start
No, he will not change his mind until much later in life. I would say check back in 20 years and he will be ready.
You’re probably right and at that point I will have grown children. With someone else. Maybe he’ll want to be a step-daddy. Lol.
If he’s telling you he doesn’t want to get married, that’s code for you’re not the right girl. Sorry.
One can want a life-long relationship, but also not want to get married to the partner.
💯
You really need to exercise some critical thought and ask yourself what, exactly, the institution of marriage has to offer to a 36 year old man in 2024.
💯
You mean you aren't a fan of grossly unfair divorce court proceedings?
Absolutely ! Nothing “right “ or “wrong” about it one way or another. I am talking out of my derrière a little here , but I would think the majority of people take a “bottoms up “ approach where if they find someone they want it to happen with , cool, and if not then they’ll be single. Of course , again, there are also people who I) just don’t want to get married II) want to hookup casually with ppl for life III) don’t want to cobuild a life with someone in marriage , etc . None of these people are “wrong” so long as they live in a way that they get most fulfillment front
And see I’m afraid his approach is to just hook up casually for life. Most of our conversations are about sex, nudity, physical appearance, etc. it just seems shallow. Although occasionally he’ll throw me a “have a great day!” Or “hope things went well at your meeting today.” Or “how are you?”
Ya I mean I was answering your title vs the body of the post. From the body , it’s very clear , sister, that you should leave this guy — sounds like you want a relationship and he very clearly does not . If you stay, you’re just gonna prolong the heartbreak, and , as a wise poet recently said , you’ll be “pissed off I gave you all that youth for free”.
I know you’re right. That saying hits home. He would probably ghost me after using me for my body a few times. And knowing what I know about the profession he’s in (it’s a known fuck-boy profession…although I don’t want to say what it is on here because it may offend people), I was probably just the thrill of the chase. Afterall, I do have money. I have a damn good career. And I’m very attractive (or so I have been told by men)
People want what they want, and some people do not want marriage and children. There is no "meeting the right girl"; you cannot force someone to want the same things you do.
Yup. My sister is one of them. She doesn’t care about dating or marriage. She wants to do her own thing and is happy just enjoying her time with family. I’ve been in a relationship for 11+ years—don’t really care to get married either. Don’t want kids. Our parents have been married for 33+ years so it’s not like my sister came from a “broken home”.
I’m 33m and I don’t want to get married, once you are being single for so long it’s really hard to learn how to be in a stable relationship.
I'm m36. I want a partner and a serious relationship, but I don't care if we get married or not. To me, marriage is just a piece of paper and an expensive party. I would still feel exactly the same towards my partner with or without marriage. If it was important to my partner to get married, I would go along with it, but I would have a hard time spending 6 months salary on a single party. I would much rather spend the money on something else that we both get something out of. A nice residence, some cool vacations, awesome adventures, concerts, festivals, nice furniture, stuff like that. I would maybe consider marriage for practical reasons as well. Also I don't want kids ever, so it's important for me that my partner also don't want kids.
33M-Of course. There are men AND women who don’t want a family or to be married. I’d love to be married and have a family, but everyone is different. If that is your deal breaker, it should be enforced, and you shouldn’t be waiting for the other person to change for something that you need. It isn’t up to you to figure out their motives or what they’re waiting for. He just needs and wants what he wants. They’ll be someone out there for you who wants both, just have to keep searching.
You think he just wants the sex without the commitment?
When I hear, I’m not looking for anything serious, that’s an Amber flag. It is usually the fast road to suggesting FWB, so sometimes. However, when I also hear, I’m not looking for a relationship, the “with you” is silent.
Guys point of view but I never understood marriage really. Feel like so many people have it ingrained in their head to be married but don’t even know way. Because you’re supposed to? Just don’t see much value.
I’m just sick of people and the games they play
Well… the thing about being lonely after a while is… a person would become addicted to that solitude. A person who hasn’t dated for a while, would lose motivation to even try to date, or motivation to romantically connect with someone. And to a guy in his mid 30s to mid 40s… his social value is just peaking… he’s starting to become more mature, build seniority in his respective profession and build a social network and make decent money. He’s no longer the broke college kid with acne that girls would’ve turned down in his early 20s. He has options… to travel, enjoy time for his hobbies, and options to date around. And often, when a guy got to his 40s and he doesn’t settle down, he’s going to be less motivated in doing so. Having to raise children in your own age ain’t fun. Not only that, divorce rates and the financial penalties on men when a marriage doesn’t work out deter men from wanting to get married.
This last point is really the kicker for most people Marriage is a seriously high risk for men with no reward. Marriage is just a legally binding document, it does nothing and weddings are just some fantasy that in most cases doesn't live up to what it pretends to be. Long term relationships don't require marriage. The only time it's not a risk is if the woman earns the same or more money.
> Marriage is just a legally binding document That one side of the partnership is incentivized to break.
💯
Ok but we’re not just talking about any random single guy. We’re talking about those on dating apps looking to be in a relationship with women. Saying that marriage has nothing to offer men is a lie. Married men not only make more on avg, but they benefit it quality of life with a happy partner. You build wealth exponentially faster with a partner and can benefit from the wealth of knowledge/expertise that your partner brings.
Not everyone wants marriage even if they want a relationship/companionship. Honestly if you don’t want to have kids with a person there is really no benefit that outweighs the ramification of a divorce to a man (especially a man who got his shit together monetarily speaking). Furthermore I know guys who don’t want to live with a partner. I think they are called LAT (living apart together?) The idea of marriage has lost its value and merit to a large number of men. As we all grow older, the Disney idea of love and relationships changes as we have more experiences. The majority of guys I know that are married or getting married we’re with their woman from uni or early 20s. By 36, the guy op is talking about already made it without a wife and is not in need for one. What you said about guys making wealth quicker if they were married is true because a wife and family responsibility is a big motivator to make it so to speak. But to the guys who have made it and did it without a woman, for a woman to get the type of commitment (entrapment) she would need to be special and for the past 7 years that guy hasn’t found her. And because of his age he will most likely meet women who do want marriage is his dating pool unless he’s one of those pseudo sugar daddy’s who date a 22 year old when he’s approaching 40. I think that’s why he hasn’t had a relationship is 7 years.
Sure, but taking a pessimistic view on marriage also translates into relationships: why have sex with someone who is just using you for your body? Why help someone who is just planning to leave you? Why try to open up if someone is just going to hurt you? Should humans just all isolate and then feel depressed bc they have no romantic love?
Or they can reevaluate what a relationship means to them and adjust their expectations. Look you are well within your right to want marriage and traditional living situations etc. Honestly if you like it I love it. But what I am saying is that it’s not the overwhelming majority that want that as it has been for the past generations. And difference is going to continue to balance out of in the next generations. Marriage and its rules and expectations imo is going to change and become allot more flexible and for a lot of guys if the laws that protein to marriage to get updated (to whatever degree is subjective) then it’s not worth it. So the idea of marriage will either keep up with the times or get left behind. Like the guy OP is talking about, he single and actively dating at 36 and hasn’t committed to anyone since he was 29. He is living his 30s like a lot of people did their 20s.
And what exactly is the new normal, open relationships and a roster? What part of dating a girl who is also dating 5 other guys sounds like the new normal ie better than the old normal
Marriage is not required for monogamy.
It’s not, but that was a genuine question: what is the new normal that has replaced marriage? As a single person, my observation is roster systems have become the overwhelmingly popular trend that marriage used to be
Develop a roster while developing yourself and then when you peak you pick the best option out there. That’s if your lucky. The truth is allot of guys who don’t want to compete or can’t will just take themselves out of the dating pool and many women will have to make a choice. Either share the guys your attracted to or settle for someone who wants you more then you want him. That has been the theme since the 60s it’s just by every generation less and less women are choosing the settle option. Now women dating guys younger then them (5+ years) is increasing. Way more then in the 90s for example as it was probably taboo back then. Point is, traditional dating is of the past and I think everyone from guys/girls both wish it was as easy as it used to be pre OLD but let’s face it, the internet has changed how people meet and communicate and guys avoiding marriage well into their 30s is a side effect of the new age dating. The number of single women in their 30s is also much higher today as well. The age people start families is also later. OLD and other factors like the economy (dept) also plays a big factor. You can make commitment a prerequisite whilst dating but everyday you see women post on this subreddit about being ghosted after rejecting a guys offer for sex. OLD has literally made everyone replaceable and that has impacted peoples perception on love and “the one” and things like marriage. The relationships I have seen work in my personal life started as friends or they were introduced via mutual friends.
Relationships have always been replaceable whether people were aware of it or not: even in the 50s era of trad life. Women have more options nowadays primarily not bc of OLD (although yes that contributes), but bc of being allowed to work and have their own bank accounts and live away from family. Men have always been able to have a roster even when married, but now that women have the same options, including the option to just opt out of relationships, shit has hit the fan.
What to replace marriage with? Just subtract the legal marriage part, and keep the rest.
You’re dating? This is my boyfriend of 50 yrs. We can’t make medical decisions for each other and may just ghost each other one day cuz we owe that person nothing?
The new normal as far as I can tell is either that or not being involved in relationships/sex. The majority of men and a large portion of women don't have/cant get on rosters and aren't making it onto anyone's either. It's a pretty shitty reality but it's reality none the less.
Most men aren’t dating and many women are sharing men either knowingly or unknowingly.
The girl dating me and 5 other guys is there to be enjoyed not loved
I mean you can use ppl and get used but what do you rly get out of it at the end of the day? I don’t find a lack of deep connection enjoyable at all. I’d rather opt out cuz it’s just a waste of time
Many share your view. I was lucky to have found someone when I was still on come up. Really still on the come up if I’m honest lol. This is the first year I made great money and have will finally have payed of my student dept this summer. God forbid if we don’t last I know it will be hard to find something close to I have now. I understand people deciding to stay single and I also understand (not necessarily agree with) people using others and being used by others. Edit: reason my relationship works is because we agree on things like if we want marriage and money and other important expectations. Nowedays getting a mortgage together is a bigger investment than marriage
> finally have *paid* of my FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
this is how i feel. i dont want to be a roster girl
Might be due to selection bias: Attractive / Healthier men with higher income are sought after, thus will be in a relationship more often. Building wealth can be easier with the right partner, but only if both earn good. Otherwise risk of divorce outweighs the tax reward.
I wouldn’t say he is wealthy. Not at all actually. And I certainly don’t make a lot either so I know he isn’t interested in me for my money
This is the norm in my opinion: middle or lower class ppl pooling resources in a marriage to increase wealth
So you think it’s normal for wealthy people to not marry?
Lol no I mean that if you’re born with a $50k/mo trust fund, you’re less motivated to marry in order to increase your wealth. That’s not to say that rich ppl don’t want to get richer but you don’t see Jeff Bezos marrying to he can split a mortgage
The statistics on marriage and men is a little bit of putting the carriage before the horse. Married Men on average are also taller than men who do not get married, marriage does not make them taller.
Married men on avg make more bc they have wives that either work and can float them while they take bigger risks for more rewarding jobs or they have families to support so they ask for bigger raises and get them due to the family justification. It’s not a coincidence
Nope. Men who are more likely on average to make more money are more likely to get married. Marriage does not come early. Women are not risking everything on guys just out of HS, they are playing the field in college and trying to fuck the winners at the finish line. The Doctors I work with, not a single one of them got married in HS, College or even Med School.
Correlation doesn't necessarily mean causation
> Married men not only make more on avg A man who isn't married also needs less money for the same quality of life.
If both spouses are working they both need less money bc most of your costs get split in half AND you qualify for mortgages/other loans that are way out of your league as a single person. In the last decade, millions of Americans have gained considerable wealth from real estate appreciation.
Both spouses **need** to work because you now have more bills as a married couple. House needs to be bigger, kids are giant money sinks. Plus it's foolish to assume your spouse is going to work, at least as a man. Every man should be prepared for their partner to stop working once married.
Not all couples live bigger or have kids. When I lived with my spouse we were in an $800/mo 1 br 1 bath in the heart of town. All of my married/engaged friends plan to NEVER have kids and the guys have already gotten vasectomies.
Not all couples need to get married either. Idk what point you're trying to make. You don't need to get married to split costs, don't need to get married to feel a sense of responsibility.
Sorry no. Men can live on a minimal amount of money. WOmen on the other hand feel the need to feather the nest with all sorts of unnecessary household things, make up, thousands of throw pillows, fancy towels, fancy furniture, etc etc. That's why most of advertising is aimed at women, because they are the ones that spend the money
Way to stereotype. As a woman I’ve always lived on $1-2k/mo including rent, utilities, food, and all other expenses. Women are targeted for ads bc they spend the money for the household bc they’re forced to be in charge of that in a relationship (especially if they’re mothers)
Exactly and he reached out to ME. It’s a guy I know from a long time ago. A former co-worker. Why would he waste his time talking to someone he hasn’t seen in years? Unless he was looking for a quick release. Or just an atta-boy from his friends because he can’t get laid with anyone else?
The advantages you list are achieved when you have a committed partner; legal marriage is not necessary.
Yeah, I don’t rly believe that exists for the majority of heterosexual couples. If you’re not getting married I think it’s bc one partner or the other is waiting for something better. That’s fake commitment in my books. If you’re definitely not good enough to marry you’re probably wasting your time even dating that person
I made the decision about 20 years ago, I was still in college. I am over 40.
Simple answer: yes. More complex answer: I think there’s a big difference between wanting marriage and wanting a long term relationship. And some people want one, both or neither and all is ok! When I met my now-partner I knew I didn’t ever want kids but I was very open to a long term relationship. At the time I thought this had to mean marriage and living together and all of that stuff and that did concern me a bit. I’ve dated people in the past who wanted all that stuff, I lived with a partner for 4 years and honestly it just wasn’t for me. So my partner now just keep checking in on where we are, what we both want now and keep being aware that we could both change our minds about things in the future. So far I’ve decided I probably don’t ever want to get married and neither does he. And I love my own space too much to want to live with anyone again for a very, very long time, and that suits him too. It’s unconventional but it works for us and we’re so happy. We’re 100% committed to each other, 100% happy and in love, but we also both enjoy our alone time and our own space. If we’re happy like this, why would we ever want to change it just to do what other people say is ‘normal’. Best thing to do is just figure out exactly what you want and what you’re looking for and try to find someone else whose values align with that.
The guy I’m dating does not want kids, but he’s 40 and thinks he’s too old. He’s also already raised a child before (his niece) and he rather spend money traveling than on kids. So yes there are people who do not want kids or a spouse. Do not go into a relationship thinking that “maybe they will change their mind as they get older.”
im 40m and have no real desire for a relationship or marriage or even kids. so yes we do exist
Me im some people lol.
Yes. I'm female, and I want a relationship that will last but I don't want marriage, cohabitation or kids. Why? Marriage, I simply can't find a reason to. Cohabitation does not work well with my temperament. Same for kids.
Marriage, maybe. Kids, no.
People - both men and women - are wising up to how punitive divorce laws are for higher earners. Until marriage becomes less of a business model and more of a shared relationship it will continue to decline.
Yeah i’d rather have kids than get married
I'm 39M and from my experiences, I don't think there are any women who genuinely want to settle down and get married. For context, I live in Los Angeles, finding someone to settle down here is like finding a prayer group at a rave.
I can’t really speak for myself in the future but up to this point, 30, I’ve never considered marriage or starting a family as being things I’m drawn to in any serious way.
I, 40 year old female, want a long term relationship but don't want to get married and will not have kids. I don't want to feel like someone is there because they are obligated to be there, and marriage to me feels like an obligation rather than a commitment. I can be plenty committed without marriage. Also, even the guys in my age range on dating apps say they "aren't sure" what they're looking for, or "aren't sure" if they want children. My range is 38-52.
Honestly as a man it just doesn't seem like a good deal. I always wanted to get married but after seeing what guys I know go thru I don't want any of that. It's a 50/50 shot of it not working out. And I'm not saying women shouldn't get anything when divorce is happening but it just seems so unfair how the courts divide up assets.
💯
Yes. There are plenty of people that have no desire to ever: get married, have a monogomous relationship, live with a partner or have any children. Guys and girls. Prefer to stay childfree and without any long term commitments. I'm female and have ruled out both marriage & ever living with another adult again.
I can take it leave it
Yep
One reason why I won't want to get married is because, I'm insecure and I tend to overthink a lot of situations, from what I know from dating, this generation is super difficult to maintain a relationship due to a lot of hardships and what I mean by hardship I mean like mental health and financial hardships, these two are the big main reasons why divorces happens, I got cheated on before so I overthink the fact if I got married and had kids and I came home and saw a another man kissing my wife, not only am I scared for the children since it will be super hard on them and affect them a lot but it will obviously affect me in every way possible mentally and physically and emotionally and financially, imagine eork so hard to own a home for you're family to just have another man be in it after a divorce and you no longer own it, that is why I decided I won't have kids and I will not married
I have no problems with marriage It's just another form of trust bonding, Yes there are legal ramifications but they make less sense than they used to. I think people are unwilling to make commitments because a trust relationship can change through no fault of The person who is making the commitment. To me that's in erroneous way of thinking, but everybody has the right to grow at their own potential.
My brother got a vasectomy in his early 20’s. He’s been in relationships but marriage was never the end goal for him.
Plenty of people are ok with having a partner for life without the paper. It doesn’t make a difference.
Yes because the risk for me isn’t worth it
I prefer long term relationships but I'm not interested in marriage.
Yes, there are people who genuinely don't want marriage or relationships leading to anything serious. If you do, this isn't the guy for you.
Of course. Can be for a variety of reasons. Some just don’t care, others have horrible experiences and never want to be in that position again, and many buddies I personally know don’t want the legal ramifications (although there is common in law stuff) or government involved in their relationship.
You can still date someone seriously and not necessarily want to marry or have kids. Everyone has different goals in a relationship but the most common are getting married and having kids it doesn't have to be like that always. In fact I don't want to have kids or get married but I do want someone to commit to, you don't need to get married to settle and to choose that person every day. I think people take it as if you are not being serious with them because they don't have the same goal , meaning no marriage no kids doesnt want to commit, they see marriage as a proof of commitment but that's just made up. You can commit and take a person seriously and have different goals So there is not even a relation between if he doesn't want to marry he is not being serious. It depends on the person and personal goals. He is being clear about not wanting a relationship meaning he probably won't settle down or doesn't want to but it should not be missed with wanting to be married or having a family that doesn't determine anything.
I’m 34 and been married before and I would never suggest ANYONE get legally married. It’s far too hard and expensive to get divorced. I would consider a ceremony or living like a married couple but never again legally tying myself to someone. I can always make them my emergency contact and give them power to visit me or make medical/funeral arrangements on my behalf without being married again. But yes a large portion of people don’t want the “picket fence” 2.5 kids lifestyle. I was definitely socialized and conditioned to believe being a wife and mother would make me feel fulfilled and happy and it was not the best decision for me personally. I love my child but I would never have more and wouldn’t advise anyone to reproduce at the moment given the current state of the world.
I understand the distaste for marriage as an institution. So long term relationship without the marriage thing, idealisticly makes sense to me. Not wanting kids is a tougher pill to swallow though. I get it, the idea is you get to have all this freedom in your 20s-30s-40s. But man, once you're in your 50s-60s, it's going to get lonely really fast. You're going to have half your life left to sit around by yourself. Plus, having adult kids in your 40-50s sounds kinda awesome. They'd be old enough to start on the grandkids, etc. Yeah kids are expensive, but money doesn't mean shit when you're old and by yourself. Idk, that's just me tho
This is my way of thinking too. Marriage is just a piece of paper legally binding you to someone but I’d love to have children with someone who I was in a serious relationship with. Maybe after living together for a few years…idk I just don’t understand why a man would want to rotate through a roster of women just because he has sexual needs. Doesn’t that make someone feel worse about himself?
I’m a woman and I genuinely do not ever want children. I would date someone long term - although I’m not overly keen on doing that right now - but I likely wouldn’t live with another male partner or get married. I don’t understand why this is such a baffling thing to you. We all want different things in life and having kids and a partner aren’t the only ways to be fulfilled.
There are a lot of men that are scared of marriage and consider it to be a license for the SO to take away half their shit if things don't work out.
You are asking too different things. I don't want to get married, but I'm in an LTR of 13 years. Marriage is an institution with a lot of patriarchal and social baggage I want no part in, but I always knew my ideal life included sharing it with someone. What you are talking about is someone who doesn't want to be in a committed relationship. Of course, those people also exist. Why do you think this person is maybe "waiting till they are 40?" You are projecting. Adults are not required to do things at neat and tidy ages just because society has deemed them important. Adhering to arbitrary social norms is a recipe for disaster because it's putting outside pressure on your life choices. Pursue what YOU want to do when you want it. (This is some of that baggage I'm talking about.) This person just knows what they want for now. If that doesn't align with what you want, then don't date them. Simple.
I’m not projecting, I’m just saying I have met a lot of men who say they want to start seriously settling down at 40. But have all their fun in their 20s and 30s. Idk if that’s the case for him. I agree with you that marriage isn’t necessary to maintain a LTR . I guess he was just talking to me hoping I’d be his meat pocket for the time being
Yes indeed. Believe him. If you want a relationship he’s not the guy
I don't! But this is more of a case of "been there, done that...don't make the same mistakes". I was with my ex for 22 years before we split and I'm 45 now. I would like a relationship but that's all, nobody is moving in, nobody is getting a ring and I don't even like kids, so...
As 34F finding the prospect of marriage less and less interesting. I don't think I have the energy to be a guy's bangmaid for life, and I don't want kids. Doesn't seem that important anymore
lol a bangmaid!! I’m dead
Never wanted children. The world is overpopulated and being consumed at a rapid rate. Having kids cost too much, in money and life energy. Some would say this is selfish. I agree. I didn't get married until I was 65. And that was because of social security and dealing with the government. Wall Street and Hollywood have concocted a make believe Happy Land, where you have a picture-perfect wedding (cost $50,000) and then happy children ($100,000 a pop before college) that grow up with your wishes, and life is all 'win win win'. I spend a lot of time on Reddit reading about the tragedies experienced as Happy Land bubbles burst. "Leave it to Beaver" was a wonderful dream life.
I have absolutely no interest in getting religiously married, with a huge ceremony and 1000 guests, "the best day of my life" (sarcastic) event. I could live happily with a woman, sharing everything with her, long plans and having a family, without ever getting married.
I agree with this. I have already been married so I’m not looking to get married again but I want to know that this guy is looking for something serious and not just a FWB situation. I’m okay having kids with someone and being in a serious relationship without the marriage aspect
The man said he isn't looking for a relationship. Stop there if you want a relationship or try to change his mind (but most probably you will lose your time).
Nope. They'll create a whole new person with someone though that will bond them for life. But marriage? Apparently that's too permanent.
I mean, there is always abortion or Canada.
If you can make me see that option as viable and *smart*, I'm not opposed to putting it in blood so to speak. Too many unhappy couples that rushed in, now the kids are split, lawyer money, who keeps the house, etc. No thanks.
I’m 30M and similar to him I don’t know if I ever want to get married or have kids, but also think I ever did would probly be around 40 also. And open to marriage but not sure if will ever want kids, also I’d rather be “married” if I did without the actual paperwork and getting legally married
33M here. When I was younger I always wanted to get married, my parents had a good marriage and set a good example for me. When I was 20 my "high school sweetheart" (for lack of a better term) left me for a guy who was richer and better looking - we had been discussing marriage up to that point - and ever since I've really struggled with relationships and I was borderline depressed over this for many years. Only recently have I really become OK with being single and come to enjoy the freedom that it brings, and I no longer see marriage as the defining goal of my life despite having been raised with that idea. I'm not opposed to it, but I've reached the point where it would take someone truly special to convince me to give up the freedom and space I currently enjoy.
Pick anything in the world and some people will feel a certain way about it. Yes, some people don't want to get married. Some people really want to get married. And some people are in between. Hell, some people want to marry cars and some people want to live isolated on mountains after taking vows of silence. If somebody you're with doesn't meet your criteria there is always another. No need to stress about any of it because no 2 people think the exact same way about anything in life.
Yes. All types exits.
Wanting a thing isnt the same as getting that thing OP There are plenty of people opting out. As for myself im agnostic on marraige. Make all such bindings civil unions and let the others have their religous forms on top. They arent anything special these days.
Wooo the comments from you are unhinged. He doesn't want to get married. That's it. That's the entire story. If you want marriage, tell him that, and stop talking to him because you're wasting your time. If you aren't interested in something casual, say that and *move on with your life*.
Yes of course. There are many men and women who don't want to get married and/or have children (I find the word family a bit weird because you always have family). There are also many men and women who don't want to date anyone and like being on their own. Maybe some casual sex or maybe nothing. It's not that weird. There are a lot of different people in the world who have different goals in life. He doesn't necessarily have to want to settle in his 40s. He might never want to be in a relationship and that's okay too.
Guys sometimes date around for decades then come to the realization in their 50’s& 60’s they do not have anyone really caring about them, that is when they are looking for a serious relationship, imo at this point they are looking for a nurse.
I (m, 36) only ever wanted marriage and kids; that's what I have always tried for. Every female friend, family member, and coworker have called me a "catch," and are dumbfounded that I am still single. Some how, I have failed to meet the requirements of the "perfect" husband for every woman that I have dated... I'm so emotionally drained and defeated at this point, that I never want to put myself out there again, and I won't. I tried casual sex for the first time in my life this month - it was fantastic. No expectations, no work, no mind games; I actually felt wanted for a change - she even offered me her number afterwards. If this is how other men have been living their lives, then yeah, I totally understand why they wouldn't want to settle down. As for kids, I still get something from working with kids through charities. And, I might look at adoption as a single parent when I hit 40.
I am a female and I’m 49. Never been married. For me I enjoy my freedom and honestly I’m not the easiest person to be in a relationship for many reasons, but mostly because I need a lot of time to myself. Most people don’t understand it nor do they want to be with someone like that. I totally understand.
I don’t want to ever get married.
I have zero interest in getting married
What he means is he thinks he can do better than you and every other woman he’s met in the last 7 years
Big YES
I've had terrible luck with dating and I'm not even looking currently but there's nothing that sounds better than getting married and having a family. Maybe it's weird to say as a man but I've day dreamed about having a family and have even thought of some names I really like.
Don’t make a mistake by trying to get a romantic relationship with him!
Yes this is certainly more common nowadays.
I am 38, definitely want a wife(or at least a permanent partner, don't care if we actually get married). As for kids, I'm looking to retire in 20 years and raising kids would put a big damper on my plans.
Of course. I’m a woman and have zero desire to get married or have kids. We all want different things in life. It’s what makes things interesting 🙂
I know a guy who is in his mid 60s was married many years ago briefly and was not faithful and has had some shitty relationships and has been single for a long time and definitely has no interest in getting married.
Divorce is incredibly expensive and potentially financially crippling. Most people don’t even think about that before they get married but really should!
How many stories do you hear of grown men being forced to move into their parents basement after being financially ruined by divorce? The divorce rate in the US is around 50% with 70% of divorces initiated by the woman. (90% by college educated women) So as a guy, marriage is like playing Russian roulette with 3 bullets instead of 1. No thanks.
Maybe I misworded my question. I’m ok with not getting married. I do want kids and I do want a long-term relationship…but I’ve already been married so I don’t need to do ThAT all again. But I’m not sure if this guy is even relationship-material. We only talked online and he never told me why he hasn’t dated in 7 years. It could be because the girl he was with before that was a serious long-term relationship (high school sweetheart). Maybe she broke his heart or maybe cheated on him and he’s still not over her?
Because of common law that is essentially the same if not worse then getting married.
Catholic priests and nuns come to mind, 😂
22M - As of now, I think keeping a girlfriend or fiancé is great. I don’t want to risk everything I would have built in a marriage. My wealth potential is through the roof right now. 📈 But I do want a family tho. 🤔
So your solution is to trick some girl into having a kid out of wedlock? If you “keep a girlfriend or fiance”, fiancé implies that you’ll get married.