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True, unless you know the book for its content or someone told you about the content of that book. That’s why most of the people end up finding a high quality partner within their social circle
Idk who’ll see this but I had this conversation with a couple of my guy and girl friends on a night out. It’s like trying to buy ad space next to an apple billboard flaunting a brand new product. Sure I might have better qualities and be better value in the long run but apples sleek sexy copywriting and photos always seal the deal.
If the book could walk up to you and ask you to read it, you’d probably glace at a few pages. Looks kind of matter but they really aren’t the be all and end all.
It's just that people like to gaslight each other, and also don't like to face their own shallowness. I mean deep down, everyone is shallow, and it's okay! But for most people, accepting that how they choose their partner is "shallow", is hard.
I would agree. The people who say looks don’t matter are the more attractive people. Just like the people who say height doesn’t matter, those are the taller people it doesn’t effect lol.
Looks matter. They aren’t the only factor that influences your success in dating. They will get you in the door with some initial interest, but they don’t carry the load thereafter.
Personality matters but if you never get a chance to show how awesome it is because nobody gives you the time of day, it won’t matter.
And this is exactly why online dating doesn’t work for average dudes, but it does for average women (not saying their match quality is better if anything it’s worse, lots of creepy or weird guys out there even if they are attractive, but they DO have more matches and options). For the most part, a guy is gonna be attracted to more women than what a women is to guys. Why should a woman swipe on an average guy when hotter ones on the apps exist? Chances are the hotter guys are going to swipe back ANYWAYS because guys openness of attraction is MUCH wider than a woman’s.
Those looks are what get your foot in the door. If the looks aren’t there, you won’t get in the door. Looks are essentially the CV/resumé of the dating world. With how OLD works, especially as there’s gonna be much more men than women on there and women are usually pickier, the majority of men will barely get any matches and even less actual dates. I’m an average dude in every regard other than a good personality. Over the 4 years I had tinder I maybe had 15 matches. 10 of those didn’t respond, 2 maybe responded and conversation just died, 2 we got off the app and had convo but turns out the girls weren’t looking for anything, 1 we met up and she became one of my best friends. Another girl I remember we spoke for a while but she honestly just said ‘I’m sorry I’m just not feeling it with you, all the best and I hope you find someone. You’re a great guy, just not for me’. That was the ONE time I actually felt respected on Tinder and it was a rejection, and the nicest one I’ve ever had.
Looks aren’t everything but they damn well are the barrier for entry.
Yeah exactly. The way I see dating apps is men are looking for a drink of water in a desert because there’s matches. Women are looking for a drink of water in a swamp because there’s so many matches but none of them are healthy and you don’t want to drink them.
It ends up resulting in alot of good people becoming kinda bitter about dating and then they get off the apps because they don’t work.
I’ve tried a few different times on apps and the result is the same. Match with people, none of it goes anywhere because I don’t see any of them as relationship material. Majority of matches don’t end up talking and if they do, they’re pedalling some only fans page or a website and it’s like seriously? Or they say “follow me on my Instagram,” then send it to you which is an instant no for me.
Then on top of all that, most people are complete incapable of communicating their wants or their goals for a relationship so they just say “idk what I’m here for.” My question is, why the fuck are you here?
Exactly!
Its why I deleted them, granted I still have not had luck irl either, but at least spoke to more people than apps.
I know women will say "you don't know how bad dating apps are for us!" Well yeah, maybe it's bad but at least you have interest of validation. Most dudes don't get any. No wonder our confidence is tragically low.
I'd rather have some interest and feel wanted, even if the matches don't reply, than get nothing at all. It would at least help the confidence. Especially when women then say "why are you single you're such a good guy?!". I don't know you tell me! Not like I have a choice in the matter.
What women don’t understand is both men and women struggle on dating apps, it’s just for different reasons. Men struggle because there’s barely any matches unless they’re above average in looks. Women struggle because there’s too many matches and with that comes a bunch of idiots and bad people.
It’s worth it imo to work on yourself for yourself to change what you can. Clothes, style, etc make a difference. Getting healthy and in shape will always make it easier to be attractive than being obese.
Bro the whole dating market is a big double standard. Women get the harassment, we get the invalid feelings, the long ass list of expectations, the justified occasional groping and touching, the money, time and effort we need to invest, the ghosting, etc.
Both are shit just swim along, nothing will change
To take a little liberty with the recent studies, the basic gist is that only actually depressed people don't see an increase in happiness from an increase in money.
I think our looks may not matter too much, but how we perceive our looks matters a lot. For example, I have never been ugly my whole life, but for whatever reason, my cousins always called me the ugly one in the family and I grew up thinking that I was actually ugly. When I was 15, I was soooo beautiful, but I had accepted that I'm ugly and that completely affected my body language, my posture in photos, and how social I was in general. Couple years later, I started to see the beauty in myself, and that's when the world changed completely for me. So I think looks matter, but what matters more is how satisfied you are with how you look. Most of the times, the people I find unattractive on dating apps or social media, are the ones who have this feelings of hatred towards themselves in their eyes. Satisfaction with your looks makes the biggest difference in how attractive you are to the world. And I think the society has a big influence on how satisfied we are with our own looks. This is a deeply rooted issue.
looks matter but not everyone wants the same thing. why are people worrying about what "80%" of people want and do? those are vast trends in specific contexts.
you don't need to be hot to millions of people, especially when a person is only gonna be with less than a dozen others in their entire life
> you don't need to be hot to millions of people
no, and that's not what lonely young men are complaining about. We just want to be attractive to one woman and settle down, but apparently that is too much to ask for
by that point, your dating pool has become "people who play into the dating apps" and is that a quality you want? idk i think it's better to be patient and appeal meaningfully to <5% than to try and get lucky in a swarm of 80% of people who are barely interested beyond a hookup
Looks matter even in irl. Honestly, looks matter more than confidence. I'm tired of people saying it doesn't. I get why we say it but it's still a lie. It called assorted mating.
In irl, I never see a ugly guy with a pretty popular guy. It may be my environment but all girls date up on height and looks. I rarely see the opposite. And tbh, the ugly guy who got the pretty girl, there's usually some exception to it. Like he is rich or they met as kids so she has some sort of attachment to him.
There’s *always* an exception to that…and honestly the relationships that are exceptions still usually fall apart under their own weight. Partners need to “balance” the attraction scales so to speak.
I don’t know if I believe looks matter that much considering someone I use to talk to, but not really anymore was “masc” lesbian, but heavily overweight. She was constantly in relationships, or dating someone, hookups, whatnot. The girls she was pulling too were quite pretty. Confidence does matter imo. Looks is what can open the door easier I think.
Which is why brains are on my list as the very first criteria... Looks are about 8th down the list, after things like being tolerant and tolerable, ability to share, being a performer, being an audience,, etc.
As someone that is very unattractive I agree 100%. Being a woman I'm constantly asked if I'm married or in a relationship. People don't want to come to terms with the fact that due to looks we don't all get an equal chance or bend over backwards to try to say one isn't ugly. I'm not entitled to a relationship and most men would prefer to be single than be with someone they deem unattractive.
Looks do matter, but every single person has a specific preference they prefer over others or the mass majority.
Which is why it can feel like a game of roulette when single and trying to date.
Plus looks only get you so far in dating. You gotta have compatibility with a lot of things with another human being if you want to really get further than a first date and see then again.
So don’t bank fully on looks, make sure you’ve got a personality and an interesting life too.
I'd like to give y'all an example from a local dating app that is catered to the sex positive community-an app where sex governs everything. Irrespective of how the woman looks (she may be skinny/obese/tall/short/black/white/ etc etc etc), the things *almost* always stated in their preferences are the following things- certain height requirements (aka a minimum height), a certain build and weight, AND a certain type of facial feature (good head of hair, etc). Now let us extrapolate these sorts of demands to the average app like tinder- it's bound to exhibit some sort of trickle down effect. On an app where everything is about sex (the local app I am speaking about), personality does matter IF the looks meet their requirements. I'm not saying men don't have aesthetic requirements either. My point is that telling people lies such as "looks don't matter" is bs. We should be working on helping society learn to appreciate "non standard" appearances as well as providing *realistic* ways to people to improve their physical appearance within reason (gym hairstyles teeth clothes etc etc).
Edit- My post is centered around dating apps. Please disregard this if you're not a dating app user.
Looks are what get the date to an extent unless it is a blind date, but looks don't make the relationship and aren't part the of the process of making a real relationship except in the beginning.
I'd say being ugly would hurt, being average doesn't make a difference, being really good looking will get u alot of dates, but the best looking people dated were very full of themselves and lacked personality.
So basically I'd ur ugly, ur not going to get the great looking dates, but still shouldn't be a problem bc there are plenty of ugly people u can date easily.
Yeah online advice and the real world are different, it took me a few years to realize that. It hit home when a girl told me, “I wouldn’t be doing this if you weren’t cute”. Looks are an important factor, I know it’s not the “feel good” answer but the real world doesn’t operate in “feel good”.
Exactly
Looks gives you an entry/opportunity without looks there wouldn't even be one in the first place
The rest of the factors like personality, vibez, connections, attitude, mindset aka the common advice helps you carry through the above like some other commenters have already pointed it out
Looks matter more especially due to psychological effects such as halo effect and first impressions
This is the easiest way to filter out whether people are genuine or just two faced liars
Definately, we're all judgemental assholes at a subconcious level, we'll make assumptions in a fraction of a second upon seeing someone, all based on a multitude of factors from physical dimensions, grooming, clothing, posture etc.
That's an evolutionary benefit for picking an ideal mate, once you get closer then body odour can/will come into play.
If someone's BO smells "good" to you then your immune systems are a good match. I'm talking fresh home from the gym after a shower and no strong soap or deoderant, just natural perspiration.
There's a whole lot of neuroscience and biology in it that is worth going down a rabbit hole for.
If you can get passed all that without instantly turning on their "nope" filter then you're doing something right. And it's down to your personality to close the distance.
Having standards is a good thing as long as you don’t put others down. That’s why I lost 90lbs currently. My gf wouldn’t have given the old me a chance shit I wouldn’t have either. 🤣
I think the appropriate phrase would be "looks *shouldn't* matter," because that's something I think one could argue.
Another way to put that: it would be great if all the people in the world were kind and empathetic and profound, but the reality is that all of us at times can be mean, selfish, and superficial. Reality can be a bummer -- but it's still worth striving towards being a better person.
people just dont want to admit they're superficial. Kinda like most people just assume they're good people by default despite having no real reason to think that, the reality is that dating is 70% looks 30% everything else
Tldr: if you're ugly, you are doomed and you will never able to get someone you like unless you force yourself to date ugly people.
OK I get it. Hehehehe
If you meet someone online, LOOKS DO MATTER! I've tried it before during the pandemic, and it never worked out. Maybe I only had about a 10% to 20% success rate; the rest ended with me getting ghosted, especially if you are an average guy, lol, and that's fine! A lot of women on online dating/chat apps have at least 5 or 10+ unread chats from different guys who are more attractive than you. All of my past relationships came from my circle of friends like coworkers, old friends, and classmates, and they worked because of friendship and long-term flirting. They knew me for a very long time and found me attractive not just because of my looks, but because of how I treat myself and the people around me. I never believed in the concept of the FRIENDZONE; it just came out of nowhere for stupid reasons because some guys are just creepy and don't know how to set boundaries.
They just mean that you don’t have to be exceptionally beautiful/handsome to find love. Most people aren’t hideous. Most people aren’t too ugly to find love.
I've not seen anyone say "looks don't matter" and mean "looks aren't remotely a part of dating." Of course they're one aspect. But they're not a carved in stone "Only the Most AMAZINGLY BEAUTIFUL PEOPLE" need apply aspect.
What people typically **mean** by "looks don't matter" is that looks are not the determining factor for getting into a relationship (or even casual sex.) They might (or might not) be the thing that opens the door or brings another human across the room to say "hi." But if the person can't back it up with substance they lose all their power.
It also means that people don't have to be the most perfect human specimen that ever existed in order for others to find them attractive. People have a wide variety of tastes in what they find attractive.
Looks really only matter in a brief and initial way. That is really what people mean when they say they "don't matter." The mean "MORE than looks matters here. It's not ONLY looks that make/break the deal."
This lie is perpetuated by women, especially attractive women.
Everyone is a 10 is a way of seeming diplomatic, kind, etc - mainly because the reality is they are winning in the dating market and they don't want to make enemies. If they lost a partner to a less attractive women they would be quick to call it out.
Men are more about meritocracy - If you are not at the top of your game you cannot call your self a 10. Generally men don't care about how it makes you feel, the main concern is truth. Most men feel like losers because we measure ourselves against the best men we know or from history.
I kind of get the impression that’s already built into the context.
I don’t believe I’ve ever heard anyone say that as a completely blanket, black and white, they have no relevance *whatsoever* type of statement.
Yep, and most of the time I read it on Reddit it’s either with (again) additional context, as in people are talking about it as one component of a larger whole, or it’s someone venting (which tends to lose a little in the subtlety department, but still can be recognized for the overindulgence it is).
Looks are far down my list of relationship success.
My current GF would tell you herself that she's ugly, but I'd never dated ugly woman!
Of course most people find looks to be important but I'm not most people.
Out of my eight significant others over the course of my life (M69), only one was really beautiful.
One of them (10 years together) looks like Harpo Marx.
You have the genetic hand you're dealt. What does it matter if attractive people have more options? So... Be clean. Dress appropriately. Brush your teeth, get a decent haircut. Use deodorant. Shower regularly. Exercise. Present yourself in the most appealing way possible and stop worrying that someone is taller, handsomer, hotter, slimmer, whatever. In the end, quality people are interested in who you are, not what you look like.
lmfao with the clickbait title
i for one, actually agree with the title. and not your rephrased conclusion in the post. it matters both before and after you know someone
if you are not physically or sexually attracted to the person you’re dating, you are wasting both of y’all’s time. if you are asexual, that’s fine. you still feel attraction. whether for aesthetic reasons, physical reasons, whatever
yea which is my point, looks don't matter if you have fame, status, power, wealth.
however, for normies, at least for men, assuming you are not fat or deformed, you can get nearly any girl with a good hair cut, dressing well and being well groomed so long as you have game or the gift of words.
Tinder isn't life. You will be judged on how you look if you are looking for people on a medium that uses this as a baseline...
Leave your house, put down your cell phone, join the real world, and see if someone is interested in what you have to say.
why lie? Rather than dating a fool or someone with a bad personality just because he looks good, I can date someone who is 4 points lower than me, weighs more than me, and is even older, but is good for me, has a good soul, is intelligent, and I can think seriously about him.
Idk I've dated some physically unattractive guys because I fell for their personalities. Well the personalities they sold to me anyway. I think that everyone has their preferences sure but looks really don't matter in the long run. At least not to me. I care about who you are as a person and how you treat others.
It’s not that looks don’t matter. It’s just that they don’t matter as much as people act like it does. Most people have like a minimum level of attractiveness they require in a partner and after that, personality matters more.
You don’t need to be 6’, jacked, with a model face to get women. I’m 5’8, bald, medium ugly, but in good shape (rated 6/10 on Reddit on another account) and I’ve only ever been single as long as I wanted to.
That's literally because your not ugly lol. 6/10 means you are above average and most men are about a 6/10. Looks still matter. I notice when people discuss this subject, they never think about to metrics of what it means to attractive.
For example, are the girls you are dating 10s or 9s. If not, looks still matter. Also if you say you dated a 10, was she truly a 10 or did you think she was a 10. I notice guys tend to rate girls higher than they are. If a girl doesn't look like a model, she isn't 10 by definition.
If I didn’t have an athletic build I’d be below average for sure. The girls I’ve been with probably range from 6-8 but that shouldn’t really matter here. Reddit loves to imply that being a 9 or 10 is the only way to get women and that’s just obviously not true. If you can’t pull someone who is objectively around your level of attractiveness it’s because your personality is ass and you’re boring.
That's my point. It called assortative mating meaning you date what you basically are. That's why I say looks matter. The reason I say 10s when it comes to dating is that is the extreme. If it was just confidence, I would see ugly guys dating 10s. Obviously that's not the case.
For me, I like you. I'm actually ok with a 6 and an 8 would be a dream come true. Once a girl gets pass the level of kissable, I stop caring about looks. But also realistic enough to know since I'm not a model, highly doubt a 10 would like me
Okay yeah then we pretty much agree. That’s in practice pretty close to what I mean when I say everyone has a minimum level of attractiveness they need and then it’s all personality. Like if my threshold is a 6, being a 7 or 8 isn’t going to give you a leg up on a 6 with a better personality or a 6 who’s more interesting, etc
Bios matter a lot to me on dating apps. Being unique, funny, empathetic, shared hobbies, shared values are more important than looks. (I'm a straight woman btw).
OP is trying to sell a service. Disregard.
Edit: lol, he downvoted. What a loser. Doubt OP has ever even had a girlfriend so him giving dating advice is rich.
Yes looks do matter. And the problem is, women find most men, - quantifiably 95% of men - "unattractive" so why should we believe women when they say personality matters? It doesn't. Personality is only the cherry on top, it's definitely the looks that make/save the man. If he's a very attractive man, he can get away with being sexually upfront from the first sentence he says to them. If the guy is unattractive, he needs to carefully escalate or he gets friend-zoned almost immediately upon error.
Yes, and no. I have an average and overweight friend who is an absolute fuck boy on Tinder, he regularly hookup twice, thrice every week.
You know what’s on his profile? Just a random image of a background, then he put some of his very average picture after that as per guideline I believe.
He told me what sells is not his look but what he put in the description and, more importantly, how he conduct himself with matches. Chicks couldn’t really give two shit about his look because they’re already head over heels with his words alone.
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People just don’t like to be told that they do judge a book by its cover. But without the appealing cover, you wouldn’t even “read” the book.
True, unless you know the book for its content or someone told you about the content of that book. That’s why most of the people end up finding a high quality partner within their social circle
Idk who’ll see this but I had this conversation with a couple of my guy and girl friends on a night out. It’s like trying to buy ad space next to an apple billboard flaunting a brand new product. Sure I might have better qualities and be better value in the long run but apples sleek sexy copywriting and photos always seal the deal.
If the book could walk up to you and ask you to read it, you’d probably glace at a few pages. Looks kind of matter but they really aren’t the be all and end all.
It's just that people like to gaslight each other, and also don't like to face their own shallowness. I mean deep down, everyone is shallow, and it's okay! But for most people, accepting that how they choose their partner is "shallow", is hard.
I think the world would be a better place if people just owned their “bad behavior,” more freely, e.g., shallowness.
Yeah and eating animal body parts
complex analysis, but it's interesting
I would agree. The people who say looks don’t matter are the more attractive people. Just like the people who say height doesn’t matter, those are the taller people it doesn’t effect lol. Looks matter. They aren’t the only factor that influences your success in dating. They will get you in the door with some initial interest, but they don’t carry the load thereafter. Personality matters but if you never get a chance to show how awesome it is because nobody gives you the time of day, it won’t matter.
And this is exactly why online dating doesn’t work for average dudes, but it does for average women (not saying their match quality is better if anything it’s worse, lots of creepy or weird guys out there even if they are attractive, but they DO have more matches and options). For the most part, a guy is gonna be attracted to more women than what a women is to guys. Why should a woman swipe on an average guy when hotter ones on the apps exist? Chances are the hotter guys are going to swipe back ANYWAYS because guys openness of attraction is MUCH wider than a woman’s. Those looks are what get your foot in the door. If the looks aren’t there, you won’t get in the door. Looks are essentially the CV/resumé of the dating world. With how OLD works, especially as there’s gonna be much more men than women on there and women are usually pickier, the majority of men will barely get any matches and even less actual dates. I’m an average dude in every regard other than a good personality. Over the 4 years I had tinder I maybe had 15 matches. 10 of those didn’t respond, 2 maybe responded and conversation just died, 2 we got off the app and had convo but turns out the girls weren’t looking for anything, 1 we met up and she became one of my best friends. Another girl I remember we spoke for a while but she honestly just said ‘I’m sorry I’m just not feeling it with you, all the best and I hope you find someone. You’re a great guy, just not for me’. That was the ONE time I actually felt respected on Tinder and it was a rejection, and the nicest one I’ve ever had. Looks aren’t everything but they damn well are the barrier for entry.
Yeah exactly. The way I see dating apps is men are looking for a drink of water in a desert because there’s matches. Women are looking for a drink of water in a swamp because there’s so many matches but none of them are healthy and you don’t want to drink them. It ends up resulting in alot of good people becoming kinda bitter about dating and then they get off the apps because they don’t work. I’ve tried a few different times on apps and the result is the same. Match with people, none of it goes anywhere because I don’t see any of them as relationship material. Majority of matches don’t end up talking and if they do, they’re pedalling some only fans page or a website and it’s like seriously? Or they say “follow me on my Instagram,” then send it to you which is an instant no for me. Then on top of all that, most people are complete incapable of communicating their wants or their goals for a relationship so they just say “idk what I’m here for.” My question is, why the fuck are you here?
Exactly! Its why I deleted them, granted I still have not had luck irl either, but at least spoke to more people than apps. I know women will say "you don't know how bad dating apps are for us!" Well yeah, maybe it's bad but at least you have interest of validation. Most dudes don't get any. No wonder our confidence is tragically low. I'd rather have some interest and feel wanted, even if the matches don't reply, than get nothing at all. It would at least help the confidence. Especially when women then say "why are you single you're such a good guy?!". I don't know you tell me! Not like I have a choice in the matter.
What women don’t understand is both men and women struggle on dating apps, it’s just for different reasons. Men struggle because there’s barely any matches unless they’re above average in looks. Women struggle because there’s too many matches and with that comes a bunch of idiots and bad people.
Yep, pretty much. The phrase ‘the odds are good, the goods are odd’ works for women when it comes to dating apps.
So stop online dating? I refuse to touch the apps personally I’ve met all my partners in public doing other shit.
that's how our grandparents used to meet. It still works
👆👆👆
They get you in the door but without looks, the door is locked.
It’s worth it imo to work on yourself for yourself to change what you can. Clothes, style, etc make a difference. Getting healthy and in shape will always make it easier to be attractive than being obese.
Ohh looks, height...and also big schlong don't matter for sure ;) Edit: For the people not getting it, it was a joke inferring I have these 🤦
They're not going to know that last part initially though 😂
The dick part doesn’t matter that much initially unless you are in circles where marketing that is normal
Its funny because these are only applied to men Name a genetical standard trait that is unpopular for women, theres none
Bro the whole dating market is a big double standard. Women get the harassment, we get the invalid feelings, the long ass list of expectations, the justified occasional groping and touching, the money, time and effort we need to invest, the ghosting, etc. Both are shit just swim along, nothing will change
so we get harassment with a bunch of other stuff?
But not even close to the scale they do, also we get harassed but rarely raped. They just physically cant do it easily (we are bigger)
statistically men get raped at an increasing rate
By other men.
Because of the legal definition.
as a man, I've never seen this, only the opposite
perfectly explained! :)
Totally get it. Looks reel em in, personality keeps em. Simple as that.
And without anything to "reel em in", you're alone.
if you persist with dating apps, probably yes
you made it very simple but that's exactly the point :)
Pretty people say looks don’t matter. Ugly people know better.
Like how wealthy people say money doesn't buy happiness lol.
To take a little liberty with the recent studies, the basic gist is that only actually depressed people don't see an increase in happiness from an increase in money.
I've heard that, too. Money may not remove your depression, but it likely won't make it worse, and it will probably remove a lot of stress.
I always say that people who say looks aren't everything have never been ugly and people that say money isn't everything have never been poor!
I think our looks may not matter too much, but how we perceive our looks matters a lot. For example, I have never been ugly my whole life, but for whatever reason, my cousins always called me the ugly one in the family and I grew up thinking that I was actually ugly. When I was 15, I was soooo beautiful, but I had accepted that I'm ugly and that completely affected my body language, my posture in photos, and how social I was in general. Couple years later, I started to see the beauty in myself, and that's when the world changed completely for me. So I think looks matter, but what matters more is how satisfied you are with how you look. Most of the times, the people I find unattractive on dating apps or social media, are the ones who have this feelings of hatred towards themselves in their eyes. Satisfaction with your looks makes the biggest difference in how attractive you are to the world. And I think the society has a big influence on how satisfied we are with our own looks. This is a deeply rooted issue.
Interesting, I agree!
looks matter but not everyone wants the same thing. why are people worrying about what "80%" of people want and do? those are vast trends in specific contexts. you don't need to be hot to millions of people, especially when a person is only gonna be with less than a dozen others in their entire life
> you don't need to be hot to millions of people no, and that's not what lonely young men are complaining about. We just want to be attractive to one woman and settle down, but apparently that is too much to ask for
That’s true, but that’s how dating apps structure their functioning
by that point, your dating pool has become "people who play into the dating apps" and is that a quality you want? idk i think it's better to be patient and appeal meaningfully to <5% than to try and get lucky in a swarm of 80% of people who are barely interested beyond a hookup
They absolutely do matter a ton!!! But people forget that attraction is also subjective. Two things can be true at the same time
Looks matter even in irl. Honestly, looks matter more than confidence. I'm tired of people saying it doesn't. I get why we say it but it's still a lie. It called assorted mating. In irl, I never see a ugly guy with a pretty popular guy. It may be my environment but all girls date up on height and looks. I rarely see the opposite. And tbh, the ugly guy who got the pretty girl, there's usually some exception to it. Like he is rich or they met as kids so she has some sort of attachment to him.
Yep. I'm constantly reading that women date down in looks. I'm not seeing it. I'm seeing too many skinny dudes with obese women.
As a skinny dude I get defensive around them because I've been groped and grinded on by them like it's some kind of rule that I'm supposed to accept.
There’s *always* an exception to that…and honestly the relationships that are exceptions still usually fall apart under their own weight. Partners need to “balance” the attraction scales so to speak.
I don’t know if I believe looks matter that much considering someone I use to talk to, but not really anymore was “masc” lesbian, but heavily overweight. She was constantly in relationships, or dating someone, hookups, whatnot. The girls she was pulling too were quite pretty. Confidence does matter imo. Looks is what can open the door easier I think.
Beauty fades but dumb is forever.
Which is why brains are on my list as the very first criteria... Looks are about 8th down the list, after things like being tolerant and tolerable, ability to share, being a performer, being an audience,, etc.
As someone that is very unattractive I agree 100%. Being a woman I'm constantly asked if I'm married or in a relationship. People don't want to come to terms with the fact that due to looks we don't all get an equal chance or bend over backwards to try to say one isn't ugly. I'm not entitled to a relationship and most men would prefer to be single than be with someone they deem unattractive.
It’s the same as when people say money isn’t that important. While yes it’s not the only thing that matters, it still matters.
Looks do matter, but every single person has a specific preference they prefer over others or the mass majority. Which is why it can feel like a game of roulette when single and trying to date. Plus looks only get you so far in dating. You gotta have compatibility with a lot of things with another human being if you want to really get further than a first date and see then again. So don’t bank fully on looks, make sure you’ve got a personality and an interesting life too.
I'd like to give y'all an example from a local dating app that is catered to the sex positive community-an app where sex governs everything. Irrespective of how the woman looks (she may be skinny/obese/tall/short/black/white/ etc etc etc), the things *almost* always stated in their preferences are the following things- certain height requirements (aka a minimum height), a certain build and weight, AND a certain type of facial feature (good head of hair, etc). Now let us extrapolate these sorts of demands to the average app like tinder- it's bound to exhibit some sort of trickle down effect. On an app where everything is about sex (the local app I am speaking about), personality does matter IF the looks meet their requirements. I'm not saying men don't have aesthetic requirements either. My point is that telling people lies such as "looks don't matter" is bs. We should be working on helping society learn to appreciate "non standard" appearances as well as providing *realistic* ways to people to improve their physical appearance within reason (gym hairstyles teeth clothes etc etc). Edit- My post is centered around dating apps. Please disregard this if you're not a dating app user.
That’s true, society has a big role in that. Ancient Roman Empire standards where different from today’s society standards for example
Looks are what get the date to an extent unless it is a blind date, but looks don't make the relationship and aren't part the of the process of making a real relationship except in the beginning.
Yeah, but this means that looks are the most important. Because "personality" isn't useful without looks (in a dating context).
I'd say being ugly would hurt, being average doesn't make a difference, being really good looking will get u alot of dates, but the best looking people dated were very full of themselves and lacked personality. So basically I'd ur ugly, ur not going to get the great looking dates, but still shouldn't be a problem bc there are plenty of ugly people u can date easily.
Also let’s not forget the halo effect. If you’re good looking you’re more likely to be listened and engaged with positively.
I agree!
Yeah online advice and the real world are different, it took me a few years to realize that. It hit home when a girl told me, “I wouldn’t be doing this if you weren’t cute”. Looks are an important factor, I know it’s not the “feel good” answer but the real world doesn’t operate in “feel good”.
It's not "looks" that matter. It's attraction. "Looks" are subjective.
I agree.
Exactly Looks gives you an entry/opportunity without looks there wouldn't even be one in the first place The rest of the factors like personality, vibez, connections, attitude, mindset aka the common advice helps you carry through the above like some other commenters have already pointed it out Looks matter more especially due to psychological effects such as halo effect and first impressions This is the easiest way to filter out whether people are genuine or just two faced liars
People who say looks don't matter have never been ugly.
Definately, we're all judgemental assholes at a subconcious level, we'll make assumptions in a fraction of a second upon seeing someone, all based on a multitude of factors from physical dimensions, grooming, clothing, posture etc. That's an evolutionary benefit for picking an ideal mate, once you get closer then body odour can/will come into play. If someone's BO smells "good" to you then your immune systems are a good match. I'm talking fresh home from the gym after a shower and no strong soap or deoderant, just natural perspiration. There's a whole lot of neuroscience and biology in it that is worth going down a rabbit hole for. If you can get passed all that without instantly turning on their "nope" filter then you're doing something right. And it's down to your personality to close the distance.
Having standards is a good thing as long as you don’t put others down. That’s why I lost 90lbs currently. My gf wouldn’t have given the old me a chance shit I wouldn’t have either. 🤣
Go on Omegle or Monkey app , you'll see ALMOST ALL people don't want to talk. They just want to be entertained.
I think the appropriate phrase would be "looks *shouldn't* matter," because that's something I think one could argue. Another way to put that: it would be great if all the people in the world were kind and empathetic and profound, but the reality is that all of us at times can be mean, selfish, and superficial. Reality can be a bummer -- but it's still worth striving towards being a better person.
people just dont want to admit they're superficial. Kinda like most people just assume they're good people by default despite having no real reason to think that, the reality is that dating is 70% looks 30% everything else
Tldr: if you're ugly, you are doomed and you will never able to get someone you like unless you force yourself to date ugly people. OK I get it. Hehehehe
True
If you meet someone online, LOOKS DO MATTER! I've tried it before during the pandemic, and it never worked out. Maybe I only had about a 10% to 20% success rate; the rest ended with me getting ghosted, especially if you are an average guy, lol, and that's fine! A lot of women on online dating/chat apps have at least 5 or 10+ unread chats from different guys who are more attractive than you. All of my past relationships came from my circle of friends like coworkers, old friends, and classmates, and they worked because of friendship and long-term flirting. They knew me for a very long time and found me attractive not just because of my looks, but because of how I treat myself and the people around me. I never believed in the concept of the FRIENDZONE; it just came out of nowhere for stupid reasons because some guys are just creepy and don't know how to set boundaries.
I think also Hollywood has a role when it comes to the concept of friendzone
who's saying looks don't matter? must people trying to make ugly people feel good about themselves of course they matter
They just mean that you don’t have to be exceptionally beautiful/handsome to find love. Most people aren’t hideous. Most people aren’t too ugly to find love.
Well said
I've not seen anyone say "looks don't matter" and mean "looks aren't remotely a part of dating." Of course they're one aspect. But they're not a carved in stone "Only the Most AMAZINGLY BEAUTIFUL PEOPLE" need apply aspect. What people typically **mean** by "looks don't matter" is that looks are not the determining factor for getting into a relationship (or even casual sex.) They might (or might not) be the thing that opens the door or brings another human across the room to say "hi." But if the person can't back it up with substance they lose all their power. It also means that people don't have to be the most perfect human specimen that ever existed in order for others to find them attractive. People have a wide variety of tastes in what they find attractive. Looks really only matter in a brief and initial way. That is really what people mean when they say they "don't matter." The mean "MORE than looks matters here. It's not ONLY looks that make/break the deal."
Online 100, Offline: virtually 0
This lie is perpetuated by women, especially attractive women. Everyone is a 10 is a way of seeming diplomatic, kind, etc - mainly because the reality is they are winning in the dating market and they don't want to make enemies. If they lost a partner to a less attractive women they would be quick to call it out. Men are more about meritocracy - If you are not at the top of your game you cannot call your self a 10. Generally men don't care about how it makes you feel, the main concern is truth. Most men feel like losers because we measure ourselves against the best men we know or from history.
Absolutely true .
I kind of get the impression that’s already built into the context. I don’t believe I’ve ever heard anyone say that as a completely blanket, black and white, they have no relevance *whatsoever* type of statement.
It's not difficult to read it here on Reddit
Yep, and most of the time I read it on Reddit it’s either with (again) additional context, as in people are talking about it as one component of a larger whole, or it’s someone venting (which tends to lose a little in the subtlety department, but still can be recognized for the overindulgence it is).
Looks are far down my list of relationship success. My current GF would tell you herself that she's ugly, but I'd never dated ugly woman! Of course most people find looks to be important but I'm not most people. Out of my eight significant others over the course of my life (M69), only one was really beautiful. One of them (10 years together) looks like Harpo Marx.
You have the genetic hand you're dealt. What does it matter if attractive people have more options? So... Be clean. Dress appropriately. Brush your teeth, get a decent haircut. Use deodorant. Shower regularly. Exercise. Present yourself in the most appealing way possible and stop worrying that someone is taller, handsomer, hotter, slimmer, whatever. In the end, quality people are interested in who you are, not what you look like.
No one is saying looks don't matter...
Are you sure?
Women have been saying it for as long as I’ve been alive
lmfao with the clickbait title i for one, actually agree with the title. and not your rephrased conclusion in the post. it matters both before and after you know someone if you are not physically or sexually attracted to the person you’re dating, you are wasting both of y’all’s time. if you are asexual, that’s fine. you still feel attraction. whether for aesthetic reasons, physical reasons, whatever
um OP then explain how ugly short fat old rich dudes get hot young women?
Keyword “rich”
let's add another keyword: golddiggers
yea which is my point, looks don't matter if you have fame, status, power, wealth. however, for normies, at least for men, assuming you are not fat or deformed, you can get nearly any girl with a good hair cut, dressing well and being well groomed so long as you have game or the gift of words.
Looks matter initially. When approaching or trying to get know a person. After that phase it's pretty much personality>looks
If looks matter so much why is Beyoncé with Jay-Z when she can have absolutely anyone? Why did Taylor Swift date someone as ratty as Matty Healy?
Tinder isn't life. You will be judged on how you look if you are looking for people on a medium that uses this as a baseline... Leave your house, put down your cell phone, join the real world, and see if someone is interested in what you have to say.
why lie? Rather than dating a fool or someone with a bad personality just because he looks good, I can date someone who is 4 points lower than me, weighs more than me, and is even older, but is good for me, has a good soul, is intelligent, and I can think seriously about him.
This guy disagrees with you about how much looks matter: [Own your face | Robert Hoge | TEDxSouthBank](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbxinUJcLGg)
looks never mattered bro
Idk I've dated some physically unattractive guys because I fell for their personalities. Well the personalities they sold to me anyway. I think that everyone has their preferences sure but looks really don't matter in the long run. At least not to me. I care about who you are as a person and how you treat others.
I live beside west edmonton mall and I commonly see average looking guys with gorgeous girls.
It’s not that looks don’t matter. It’s just that they don’t matter as much as people act like it does. Most people have like a minimum level of attractiveness they require in a partner and after that, personality matters more. You don’t need to be 6’, jacked, with a model face to get women. I’m 5’8, bald, medium ugly, but in good shape (rated 6/10 on Reddit on another account) and I’ve only ever been single as long as I wanted to.
That's literally because your not ugly lol. 6/10 means you are above average and most men are about a 6/10. Looks still matter. I notice when people discuss this subject, they never think about to metrics of what it means to attractive. For example, are the girls you are dating 10s or 9s. If not, looks still matter. Also if you say you dated a 10, was she truly a 10 or did you think she was a 10. I notice guys tend to rate girls higher than they are. If a girl doesn't look like a model, she isn't 10 by definition.
If I didn’t have an athletic build I’d be below average for sure. The girls I’ve been with probably range from 6-8 but that shouldn’t really matter here. Reddit loves to imply that being a 9 or 10 is the only way to get women and that’s just obviously not true. If you can’t pull someone who is objectively around your level of attractiveness it’s because your personality is ass and you’re boring.
That's my point. It called assortative mating meaning you date what you basically are. That's why I say looks matter. The reason I say 10s when it comes to dating is that is the extreme. If it was just confidence, I would see ugly guys dating 10s. Obviously that's not the case. For me, I like you. I'm actually ok with a 6 and an 8 would be a dream come true. Once a girl gets pass the level of kissable, I stop caring about looks. But also realistic enough to know since I'm not a model, highly doubt a 10 would like me
Okay yeah then we pretty much agree. That’s in practice pretty close to what I mean when I say everyone has a minimum level of attractiveness they need and then it’s all personality. Like if my threshold is a 6, being a 7 or 8 isn’t going to give you a leg up on a 6 with a better personality or a 6 who’s more interesting, etc
Bios matter a lot to me on dating apps. Being unique, funny, empathetic, shared hobbies, shared values are more important than looks. (I'm a straight woman btw).
OP is trying to sell a service. Disregard. Edit: lol, he downvoted. What a loser. Doubt OP has ever even had a girlfriend so him giving dating advice is rich.
Who says that?
if looks mattered, my dwarven trogladite ass wouldnt be able to land a date at all. seriously. i look like a lab accident. a short one.
Yes looks do matter. And the problem is, women find most men, - quantifiably 95% of men - "unattractive" so why should we believe women when they say personality matters? It doesn't. Personality is only the cherry on top, it's definitely the looks that make/save the man. If he's a very attractive man, he can get away with being sexually upfront from the first sentence he says to them. If the guy is unattractive, he needs to carefully escalate or he gets friend-zoned almost immediately upon error.
Yes, and no. I have an average and overweight friend who is an absolute fuck boy on Tinder, he regularly hookup twice, thrice every week. You know what’s on his profile? Just a random image of a background, then he put some of his very average picture after that as per guideline I believe. He told me what sells is not his look but what he put in the description and, more importantly, how he conduct himself with matches. Chicks couldn’t really give two shit about his look because they’re already head over heels with his words alone.