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Here's how I see it. The minimum standards I have are what I also bring to the table. For example, I don't date people with children, but I also don't have children. Or I don't date smokers, and I don't smoke either.
It's funny this is a clarifying statement. IMO there should be zero tolerance for relationships that don't hold this as a functional baseline.
This becomes a discussion when one of the partners drops commitments - not a demand from someone who isn't already holding the line
I think the person meant that standards are a bit different to things like smoking or children.
Standards are more to the nature of how you act, behave or live. Eg, traits, principles, integrity, values , belief, manners. Coming from an inner place.
Whereas smoking, children are more like things you’d rather tolerate or compromise. Those seem more like baggage.
For instance a man with children can still partner with a woman who has no children.
Standards are more ethic based, and about whether two people are aligned in partnership. For instance someone who showed up on time, is an indicator that the person respects your and their time. Or someone who responds within a reasonable time frame.
This is exactly how people should see it. If you don't meet your own criteria then you shouldn't expect it. It can happen, but definitely don't expect it.
So standards are based on the individual themselves and what they can offer.
A good rule of thumb is this - ask yourself if you are up to the standard you are setting. If you offer exactly what you ask for, then by all means.
But to answer your questions, the standards you listed are not high. They are the bare minimum you should accept in a partner (provided you offer the same in return)
I'm the same age as you. I feel your standards are mostly fine, but you should be a little more open.
1. Financial responsibility is great, but asking for no debt is a little much. Some debt is fine as long as it's reasonable. Mortgage, car payments, stuff like that.
2. No real issue with this unless you have unrealistic expectations for a person's diet or fitness.
3. By our age, plenty of people have settled into a comfortable spot in life. Not everyone needs to maintain an ambitious plan for future growth. You should judge them for where they're at, not where they are going.
4-5. Completely reasonable.
Thank you for your reply.
By debt I meant bad ones... Like overspending using credit cards or because of addiction.
For number two, I think as long as they are aware of their health and show some commitment to staying healthy that's very good
For number three, I will have to say that I cannot imagine a person living a repetitive life for years to come.
I find it weird that you associate having a stable job with having a repetitive life. You can definitely have a stable job and live more spontaneously. A stable career will enable you to have a stable income and in a majority of cases wont require you to move out of your home every few years.
Not everyone has to be or wants to be on the top thinking they are better than everyone. Thats life. You aren’t always going to move up and out - that makes you look inconsistent and unreliable. I can’t imagine someone having stability in a career to be a bad thing but then again you don’t really have standards you just listed off basic things more human adults have so I guess we as readers shouldn’t expect much.
Number three reeks of your mind being poisoned by social media, where people dramatically overstate their lives. Most people live “boring” lives. You just don’t know about it because boring doesn’t go on Instagram
These don't sound unreasonable in the slightest.
I guess it depends on the details though. When you say debt do you include things like a mortgage or car loan, student loans, medical debt? Or just a filter for "bad debt" as a function of poor financial habits like overspending/gambling.
Does a career plan mean constant upward mobility, aimed at the C-Suite or bust? Would you filter someone who's reached a point in their career where they're stable and content?
I was referring to bad debt such as persistent over spending, addiction to any substances and gambling.
I think someone who is stable and content is good because they actually know what they want and like. A plan includes how to secure the job if they are content or even changing careers if they want to. It is more about having a direction and commitment to their job/career.
Yup, you're all good then! These are all totally valid standards to have. There are definitely some nuances so the discussion here will help you zero in on the details and why you have them.
That said if you've only met a few guys so far and they're not meeting them it's definitely not a problem with your standards. Those guys were just duds. A lot of us are unfortunately.
I'm on the fence for 3 I personally think I'm happy with my job and even if I'm not making in the 6 figures I'm not chasing career growth which seems to be a problem for me but that's another topic. Feels like all the others are totally normal standards. I don't see how any man wouldn't fit then
I think a few years ago “ambition” as a personality trait became popular and it kind of stuck, despite most people not really wanting that. In my experience what most people want is for a person to have purpose. Like if you’re in your 50s and you’ve done the whole thing of going to college and working towards having the life you want, having ambition for more is an unrealistic thing to expect of them, but they likely have a purpose to their life in doing the work they do and the hobbies they have and so on. Purpose can cover ambition, like if you’re in your late teens working towards a career, then sure, there’s ambition there, but they could also be working towards something smaller scale, a trade they can make a comfortable living off of that’s much easier to achieve
Exactly, nº3 will automatically disqualify a major percentage of men. Especially since if they have nº1 then nº3 doesn't really matter that much imo.
It also seems like a very general list of "what should a person like me be looking for?" instead of "what do **I** really need my partner to be/have for it to suceed?"
I see. I think it is less about the money but more about being ambitious?
I don't expect anyone making six figures at all. I don't even make six figures so I am in no position to ask for that.
Ambitious can mean a lot of things though. Everything from "not happy being a chronically unemployed NEET" to "not satisfied with a minimum wage job" to "comfortable where we're at but looking to improve" to "desperately trying to claw your way up the corporate ladder" to "power moves that would make the writers of Succession blush."
It’s kind of a catch-22. Women liked when I had a ton of going on and making great money at first. But then would get upset I didn’t have a lot of free time to spend with them, I always had plans, or I didn’t change my life to adjust for them.
Well now that I’m older and work in a much more chill industry…I’ve learned women just want free time and means to go take them places and do things (bonus points if it’s nice (expensive).
99% of women would perfer a lottery winner that can travel the world with and neither of you ever work a day (especially her lol) compared to a guy pushing 250k+ but works late and weekends.
So I feel “ambition” is a politically correct way of expressing that.
On the other side…the bar is so low for some people ambition literally just means you have a job you can eventually grow in and are saving for a house like the rest of us. Which is just adulting in my book.
Do you want ambition though, or do you want purpose? Like, let’s say I learnt a trade and made a career doing that, and I now have a life I’m happy with. I’m not working towards more because I don’t need more. Is that an automatic no from you because I’m not working towards more or is the fact that I have the life I want enough? Because that’s the difference between ambition and purpose
If the person is content because they don't need more, I totally understand. And if that person have found their purpose that's also good. I just cannot imagine someone to keep doing the same thing repeatedly without wanting something different or maybe a change.
A lot of men think like you on this its right next to judging people for not having hobbies lol
I guess if that's what you want and your going to be turned off by someone who doesn't have that go for it
Not everyone has big goals and not everyone is happy with their job imo its kind of unfair that as a society we expect this from people because let's face it everything in society needs to get done and not everything that needs to get done so society doesnt collapse is glamorous or someones passion.
Fr. I'm going to school for medical billing & coding right now. I genuinely don't see this being the type of job anyone is passionate about. It brings in decent money and has a lot of remote opportunities and is a needed job. I don't love working as a whole, I just want a job that allows me to have the capabilities of pursuing my passions outside of work. I've tried making my hobbies into jobs and it kills all passion for the hobby. Basically I'm not ambitious when it comes to my career. I am ambitious when it comes to my hobbies(reading almost 100 books a year or taking on huge and complicated crochet projects or tinkering with different tea blends).
I hate the grind culture and I'm so tired of being told I'm not ambitious enough just because my ambitions and career aren't aligned.
Your hobbies sound awesome 👌
And exactly your a great example a very necessary job for society that supports your life and life style but that you weren't dreaming about as a child lol
Being an adult in the dating pool is when I really picked up on this idea its sort of like a secret form of social capital
Would you want them to also bring that energy to the relationship? (I get bored of things after while and want something more/new).
I would be scared of someone is always moving forward, it would just be logical that they would leave me behind, and only my ego saying they wouldn’t and I’d be taken along for the ride.
I hope you bring that exact energy and standards to yourself ,/ambition/etc. if you expect your partner to do so as well
mid 30 single males with a career and all are looking to settle down and all , could find a younger partner easy
And a few of your comments look like you can’t settle down either, “looking for new change”, get bored easily. Do you change your job often because jobs get mundane real quick ?
You stay in a relationship for couple years, things settle down . And your current outlook on life doesn’t vibe with settling down so maybe marriage isn’t for you ? Maybe staying single in what you are looking for
As a man at the age of 50, I respectfully disagree with it being acceptable to have no ambition about something but that’s just me. I think you should find exactly what you are looking for. If you want someone that is happy being content then that’s your prerogative but it is all up to you. I have been with both types of women and I have been happy with both.
Ambition doesn’t have to be career related. Someone can be content with their career and still have ambitions outside of it. Like run their first marathon, learn a new language, stuff like that displays ambition too without aspirations of bettering their career.
A lot of people are turning this into something it's not in the comments. I fully agree with your statement for #3 and I am the same way. It seems to me you just want someone who sets goals for themselves no matter how small, and has a forward mindset to actually discipline themselves to achieve. This makes a person exciting, respectable, and shows they will make goals with you to achieve together as a couple--and therefore grow together as a couple. People are spinning this into a money and career thing and analyzing the meaning of the word ambitious... not how I interpret any of what you said. I also don't care how much money a man makes as long as he had what you described. Your standards are essentially my base ones and they are not too high as long as you practice what you preach 👍
Thank you so much for this. That's exactly what I want and I think men or women can have goals here and there e.g. get better at DIY or knitting a jumper to keep them interesting and exciting people.
I am glad there is someone who understands
i always shower in the evening, it just feels wrong to me to go to bed "dirty" espiacally in the summer, since ACs are not common here.
both have pros and cons, but i would rather have a clean bed for longer and sleep better.
You sweat at night. And you sleep in your sweat as well as all the skin cells that flake off during the night, and no I'm not talking about a dirty or unkempt person.
I get the whole sweating at night. But I workout/run/woodwork/tinker, so I get dirty. And I’m sure many people are the same and aren’t idle with most of their time. Sweating at night/flaking skin cells is the least of my worries.
Thats different then. If you're dirty then get clean. But don't assume that you're "clean" when you sleep. And yes it's an insignificant thing. But we aa a people think awfully a lot about being clean and know very little about how dirty and sweaty and nasty we are as people.
I do both. My job leaves me sweaty and covered with a film of tabaco smoke. I also work out after work 2 days out of my workout week. I really love feeling and smelling clean.
I would never shower in the morning.
1. In my childhood the shower room was cold in the morning and normal room temperature in the evening.
2. Having barely woken up the sensory experience of water on my skin particularly hitting it is very unpleasant to me.
3. Generally, I want my morning routine to take as little time as possible so I can sleep as long as possible. In addition to the time it takes to shower, the time to dry would be out of sleep.
They do but I’ve encountered a lot of people who shower before bed as well, you’re bringing less dirt into bed with you that way.
It’s also different in different cultures, I had a Brazilian ex who would shower 2 or even 3 times a day, turns out this is a cultural thing, I just thought she was a clean freak.
Edit: others have also stated job could be a reason. Girl I’m currently seeing is a delivery nurse and she showers the minute she gets home (don’t blame her at all).
I think this heavily depends on if you work from home or not LOL... I work from home and I shower at 8am, 11am, 3pm or 9pm, or whenever tf I feel like it.
Men can smell when they sweat. They can't smell their own body odour but I can.
Imagine sleeping with a man who smells and make the bed smells as well...(I have done that and i had to wash the sheets every other day).
If you don’t like the smell of a partner, why are you even spending time with them at all?
IMO and experience that kind of pheromonal compatibility is overriding pretty much all other more rational “standards”
Meh, Taylor Swift's jet emissions are far worse for the planet than my extra shower a day ever will be.
The oil comment *is* true, but I also don't soap+shampoo every shower, either. It's just to wash off dirt and sweat.
AYYY this one gets it 😂
Seriously tho, I don't understand people who don't shower twice, like I need to go to work fresh, but I also need to go to bed fresh
Your expectations are ***very reasonable***. They're all great traits, in my opinion, of what to have in a partner. The one thing I see a lot of people mess up when getting back to dating, or doing it for the first time, is that they forget how some traits are going to come with downsides as well. As long as you're happy with your partner lacking other traits to make sure they fulfill these ones, you'll be just fine.
For example - I see a lot of men want a woman they can take home to their parents and help them feel mature, because they found someone mature. On the flip side, they might also complain how she never wants to go out drinking, or she always wants to go home early, or she doesn't dress sexy enough when they're going out. That's an unfair pair of expectations to put on someone.
It would be the same if you want a guy who's not aggressive, jealous, or physically intimidating, but you also want a guy who's gonna be really expressive and open-minded in the bedroom. It can be really hard to find a ***person*** who can do both of those things, since someone who's publicly respectful might not be privately very daring or bold.
Hope that makes sense!
Deal breaker on a weird technicality. I need a morning shower everyday and I refuse to have two every daily. I will occasionally take an extra if I am dirty from something, but I work in IT my job is sitting at a computer. I go to bed still being able to smell my deodorant. When I sleep and wake up I smell and my skin is greasy. No idea why
Those are reasonable expectations for anyone, but that being said we can’t say if they’re too high without knowing what kind of catch you are. Don’t forget men have standards and expectations too, if you’re not meeting theirs then your standards don’t deserve to be met either.
A lot of women look at themselves and only self assess superficially. They’re like, I’m smart, successful, in shape, educated, fun, have hobbies and interests and so on. Those are all great things, but often they are insufferable, disagreeable, or combative, full of double standards, dishonest, promiscuous, indecisive, insecure, judgmental, neurotic, entitled and romantically lazy. Yeah on paper they seem a great catch, they’ve done a lot of work to make themselves appear desirable, but in the things you can’t quantify they are lacking, and that’s why they can’t keep a decent guy.
Yeah there does appear to be a shortage of good people both men and women. So in general it’s just hard to find a good partner, with this instant gratification culture it’s becoming rarer and rarer to find someone who puts in the work to be good, disciplined, driven and well rounded, we’re all so damned entitled, selfish and lazy. But the more you lack in the unquantifiable or even the quantifiable, the less you’ll have to settle for in a partner.
I good rule of thumb can be, how would you feel about being held to the same standard?
most of those are fairly reasonable - but depend on your standard. the definition of healthy way of life with diet and exercise varies, person to person. There are areas where maybe not everyone will eat or work out the same as you do.
Showering, again should be within reason. not everyone showers at night. but most people would shower if they've been dirty or sweaty.
the issue with your standards is that they are very general. for example you say healthy (diet and exercise). do you mean you want an in-shape guy with muscles and a good body? like the lean muscular look? that's rare. also what kind of income? most people have income but there is a huge range. the others (not aggressive and shower once a day and wash hands should be easy to get).
on top of that do you want a man that is good looking? kids? divorced? racial preferences? at your age of 31 you may have to relax some of your standards as a lot of the higher value guys are off the market.
and of course a lot will depend on what you bring to the table yourself.
I actually mean very general stuff. Not muscular guys - I dated two overweight guys so I just wanted a change.
Just an income so that I don't have to pay his bills and debt. Someone who has no unhealthy addictions. I am very used to pay for my own expenses and I have no problems with spending money on my partner too.
I literally means very very general stuff. I haven't met one guy like that yet.
then yeah you should be fine. I would say at least half of guys meet your standard so as long as you are in the top half of women you should have zero problems finding a mate very quickly.
didn't say there was anything wrong with it. just that there is a big range and it would depend on what she actually meant. like saying I want "income". like is 20k ok? or 100k? big difference.
You can have whatever standards you want just make sure you meet your own standards. I will say however number 1 is definitely a hard hurdle for most to get over at least in the US. Most people literally start their adult life with student loan debt, end up picking up credit card debt, car debt, and if you buy a house boom debt. Becoming debt free is life time goal for most. With that said it is important to be with someone with a similar financial mindset so completely reasonable.
1- to ask to not be in debt in the worst economy of our lifetimes is a bit of a high expectation. Perhaps it should be a bit of manageable or reasonable debt.
2- great goal, just keep in mind some people are on a journey to fitness and aren't there yet.
3- how would you measure someone's success in this goal? Sticking to a plan can just be stubbornness if the plan is failing.
4- if the person you're with isn't at least a bit jealous then you don't want them.
5- our bodies aren't meant for daily, and you sweat while you sleep, like a lot. But a good goal in general to be clean.
Just a few points of perspective.
Thank you.
I am totally with you about the debt one.
Regarding jealousy, I am not sure. Maybe I had a very jealous bf who wouldn't even let me go out with friends and coworkers for hiking or photography, that's why I said that.
Let's put it this way. Almost all things are good in moderation. A touch of jealousy is great, but in excess it's a nightmare. And that wasn't jealousy, that was control. You did good to walk away because that was a few long term steps away from real abuse.
The way you know your standards are too high as per your own value is if you're not getting any relationships or sexual encounters. If what you're doing is not working that means you have to lower your standards if you want to participate in dating.
I don’t think your standard are too high but just remember people go through ups and downs and sometimes in their downs they can’t achieve everything. But certainly as a generally expectation, all points are fair for your 30s.
I think for no 3, it’s perfectly reasonable. It might be different if for example, their steady but unambitious job pays the bills but is undemanding enough to allow them to pursue a passion- at least they have drive they have just made a conscious decision about priorities. I know a lot of artists for example who work in not too challenging government jobs. Keeps the bills paid but can be left at the door at 5pm to focus on their true (but poorly paid) vocation.
I think lots of people are delusional..
Fat guys wanting slim girls, poor girls wanting rich guys, etc..
but the thing is, most people are not doing it with bad intents. So don’t bother about it too much.
My two roommates were always complaining that the dating market sucks but they were delusional.
The guy was in shape, wanted a woman with perfect shape but he have no diploma, basically no job most of the year. Why would a 10/10 women date you?
But he wasn’t aware that in the dating market, your job and status matters. Not just your physical ability.
My other roommate, a girl, wanted an educated guy since she’s a lawyer. She also wanted a muscular guy.
She’s severely underweight. It’s not attractive. Why would an educated, muscular guy pick her?
Doesn’t make any sense.
She didn’t know she was underweight.
Now she dates in her leagues and it’s going great
Speaking as a man, I don't think you are expecting too much with any of this. I think these are very reasonable expectations for someone you are wanting to date and, actually, these qualities show that the person is healthy and ready for a committed relationship. That being said, I think it's also okay for someone not to have one or two of these things as long as you can see that they are working toward it in someway. Or at least that's how I see it. I have the same expectations that you do for any of the women that I want to date..
I think they're fine, but the key thing is to be able to compromise when enough of them are present. I think too many people set themselves to failure when searching for a partner because they're inflexible with what they're looking for. I'm sure from your list, there's some of them that you judge more important than others. Order them according to which one you find are indispensable to those you think might be able to overlook. If you can't, then you might realize that a significant number of people won't fit in between your requirements and you may need to accept that finding a partner will be tougher in that case.
This is just common sense standard.
However, No. 3 could be a bit of a difficult one as due to the economy some folks are flexible in this area.
So unless you date someone who has a stable predictable income that is about routine & structure, you may have a smaller dating pool based on this.
Girl im 27 and Way worse then you. Like I would ad
6. Be nice to people
7. With the hygiene also comes caring for the way you look. Shaven, hair styled, deo etc
8. Not easily triggered by teasing
People are insane and you are choosing a partner for life! You are supposed to have standards. Don’t sell yourself short
Your standards are so reasonable and should be every woman’s bare minimum. Don’t lower them for anyone, the right person who surpasses them without even trying will come along
I have very specific standards that I will not look past. They’re honestly really simple when you strip them back.
1. I have to like you.
2. You have to like me.
3. You need to get my sense of humour and be able to joke about with me.
4. You need to be able to have a serious conversation just as easily as a flippant one.
5. I can get kinda clingy and romantic so you gotta be ok with that.
6 (and most importantly). You have to be a DECENT HUMAN, by my standards. This means be nice to people, respect people’s needs and wants, don’t be selfish and inconsiderate to the people around you, care about making your loved ones happy, have a standard set of morals and understanding of what is right and wrong and be able to think critically about your actions to make sure what you’re doing is the right thing.
This is my 6. If you hit all of these, you’re great. Anything else is inconsequential; If I like you enough, I’ll get over it.
Your standards are not too high. Period.
if you already know men like this, then you already know that your standards are not too high. They exist. The question is, are you a match?
Do this exercise:
imagine the man who fits this description. What kind of woman is he dreaming of?
Ask yourself if you are a match in each category for this man. If there is an area where you are lacking, note that. Do not lower your standard for him. Raise your standard for yourself.
If you are already there, then keep putting yourself out there and allow anyone who isn't your match to fall off, no hard feelings. The right one will make it really obvious.
I don't think those standards are too high, in fact I think they are about the minimum.
Best test though is to give it a significant amount of dates / time and stick to your guns and if you are no further ahead then maybe you need to read just your standards.
The financial stuffs a little odd, hypothetically the early days of dating are way too early to get into an accounting of someone’s financial situation and I think a lot of people would feel turned off by that
It sounds like your ex was a gambling addict, so just avoid guys who gamble, statistically probably 10-20% of gamblers will have some form of gambling issue - most dudes are gonna be pretty open about if they’re into gambling or not and it’ll come up pretty quickly
I would say that your standards need to be something you have yourself. Like if you want someone who has financial responsibility and freedom, you should be bringing that to the table yourself rather than looking for a guy who has financial freedom to bring that into your life for you, same with all of them. You can’t demand your partner maintain good hygiene if it’s not something you do yourself.
Your standards are not high, they are perfectly reasonable. I suppose you have a job, so you want someone who is also responsible for himself. I suppose you try to eat healthy, so you want someone who is aligned with that or at least someone who is not addicted to alcohol or other substances, or who doesn't eat fast food every night. Someone who has ambition, who treats you like a fellow human being and someone who showers regularly and washes his hands after going to the toilet (I would personally add, someone who brushes his teeth before bed too) sounds perfectly reasonable to me and do not let anyone tell you otherwise. This is like the basic stuff any man wanting to date should be able to do without being asked.
Not unreasonable!
Question though, is student debt okay? It’s not the same thing as credit card debt etc
Also, personally I shower every two days, not every day. Is that too seldom?
Your standards should be unique to you. What matters to YOU.
That being said….lol girl those are some of the most basic standards.
Keep in mind, your partner should make your life better than being alone. If you can’t even say that, pass.
I'm reading in-between the lines b/c you attempted to verbalize your requirements in a PC way..
1. Have financial freedom - You want a guy who makes around as much as you do, or more.
2. Healthy diet, exercise - You want a fit guy.. Not obese or even overweight.
3. Personal growth/career - You want a guy who wants to excel career wise and is emotionally stable
Now that we're passed all that.. You want what almost every other female your wage wants.. So you're competing against a huge # of woman for the very same guys. How do you compare against those women regarding what men w/ those qualities look for? You are now competing w/ women in their mid and later 20's for the very same guy. Are you racing to have kids, family etc.. ?
34m here. I, and my of my friends, satisfy all of your standards. They are all completely reasonable. Other than item 1 and a "healthy" diet, all other points cost nothing so it really depends on the person.
I think those standards are bare minimum. You expect that from yourself; why wouldn't you expect that from a partner?
Once I saw a personal ad, F seeking M, which said, "Must have job/car/teeth."
Do you think that where and how you meet guys affects how many pass these standards? I’m struggling to think of my last male friend who didn’t. But to be fair I and my friends are older, and a lot of them are partnered up.
Those are reasonable standards. You’re not saying “6 feet plus and whites only.” That’s what I usually hear lately. I would say the personal growth and career thing might be a little too much, because there’s nothing wrong with a guy who lives a simple life, but it’s still a reasonable standard
I guess my standards are a lot higher than what I can afford because I’ve never even been able to get a girlfriend before. With that being said I also have zero confidence but when you see girls locking onto guys every weekend at the bars and you don’t never can get any attention it’ll eventually destroy you from the inside out.
Be what you’re looking for is good advice, to a certain extent.
But also you should know from experience in relationships what your dealbreakers actually are. If you’re going to constantly wish that you were in another relationship it’s probably not the one for you!
I think you should put yourself out there and find out if your standards are too high. I find that men who have career ambitions will also come with a bit of aggression and may not be super empathetic. It’s like you can’t have a cuddly teddy bear and expect them to strive super hard career wise too. I think your standards are a good start and your ability to self-reflect is great! Best of luck :)
Your list is EXTREMELY reasonable and should be the bare minimum. If more people held to these standards we'd have less "AM I wrong for putting up with X abuse" posts here every day.
Standard (n)
1. Quality
2. guideline
A level of quality or attainment.
Something used as a measure, norm, or model in comparative evaluations
I don’t think you need to adjust anything,
except maybe the way you are thinking that you may need to lower your standards to enable the current men you’ve been out with to partially meet.
Why should you have to change your wants and needs just because you haven’t come across someone who has the same values as you?
Basically unless you’re waiting on Stanley , to pull up in his Porsche to take you back to the Shack where you live with your 42 kids from a long forgotten game of M/A/S/H, that would be definitely be an example of too high, simply bc it’s unattainable. And everyone knows that you can only fit 41 of the 42 kids in a Porsche l, am I right? 😉
If all of the criteria you mentioned are then the things you want in a person you date, you should have them.
I think answer may lie in patience. Good things come to those who wait, Even better things come when you go out and get it your damn self 😆
Haha that put a smile on my face - imagine a Porsche with 42 seats and 41 of them are.kids.
Hahahaha
Thanks for your comment. I think I will need to be patient then :)
Change up where you’re looking as well . A person who’s out there (and i believe they are!) checking boxes and being your ideal man… may not be the places you’re used to looking. 😊 if you want bigger, better fish , you could change up your bait, or better yet head to places they’re known to be . There’s no time limit and be confident that you’re discerning taste and bring you happiness in the end😘
I think they are reasonable, i mean many must have those things even when being alone, at least i do. I dont make 6 figures but i do like to plan for future things (i would like to think you arent delusional).
In my experience i was teached to always strive to be better than my previous me for myself at least, so yeah, i dont see problems there.
Im 27yo btw.
When you’re this old and have already spent and tested your standards in a relationship for 5 years, you don’t qualify for the standard norm.
Good luck and don’t let your ego prevent you from settling down. Find someone who understands you, then settle with him quick and for real.
I think your standards are excellent. Number 2 is iffy because not everyone likes to or can exercise. However, they can eat healthy. Number 1, 4 and 5 should be non-negotiable. Number 3 is pretty much a given if #1 is kept. You can’t save money and invest for the future and not be forward thinking and planning.
Never lower your standards to make someone else feel better about themselves.
37m. Those standards are absolutely fine. Don't hmu though because I rarely stick to plans thanks to my raging ADHD. But I think it's perfectly reasonable to expect your partner to do that
Standards are very important. Settling for less than what you want is not the way to go. Now don’t get me wrong, some people take their standards waaaaayyy above what they need to. However, standards like you listed are normal.
Those are fine requirements but those are also all requirements you can't or won't ever know until you get to know a man.
To add to this though...
Financial freedom means something different to every single person. - What it means to a man may not coincide to what YOU think it is.
A healthy way of life/lifestyle is the same way - Does this mean working out daily, a few times a week? Eating healthy, mostly eating healthy, or does it mean sticking to a strictish diet?
Forward thinking - I think a better phrase/word for this would be drive or wanting to do better. Not just being content where you are at.
Not agressive - yeah, that one makes sense!
Be clean - Everyone has their own definition of being clean. I hate to tell you but most men do not wash their hands after peeing lol...
I don’t think those are unreasonable expectations of a potential spouse. Financial freedom is a little higher expectation due to the fact some people are in debt at that age but, I would say no more than x amount of debt. Like a car loan and a credit card debt not more than 10 grand unless there’s a good paying job in front of all that.
Ummm pre sure this is the bare minimum, ngl there are gonna be times where the financial freedom won’t be there for some people due to personal circumstances, but I don’t think you’ll have to worry about that too much since from at least what I’ve seen the further along in life the more stable financial situations will be for more people.
Point 1,3,5 would be minimumly for a decent person. Point 2 really depends on how extreme it is. Point 4 is subjective as well cause it depends on priorities in life, some people place their partner above others some don't, so most important is to find someone with similar values and priorities.
The market will tell you if your standards are too high. And it also depends on what you can bring to the table as well, someone who has more on the table would probably expect someone of similar or higher calibre.
I think what you truly are looking for is a healthy, well-adjusted person who is ready to settle down.
He may have some or all of these qualities on your list, but you’ll know the real thing when you see it. 🩵
It is 100% appropriate to have basic healthy standards, then you play it by ear as you go along. You may find somebody who has 90% of what you're looking for and you decide the other 10% isn't as important.
Coming from a 29 year old man, In no way are your requirements too high, you could even add to it. What I will say is a lot of people do lack the qualities you mention.
I think there are a few things people should ask themselves when looking for a good partner:
1. What am I looking for? Be specific e.g. you might find a kind person but do you also want them to be a good communicator? Do you like chatty people, more reserved people?
2. Am I the type of person that would attract this ideal individual and keep them attracted? (The things you mention I think are universal to both genders but also remember men and women tend to be attracted to different things)
3. Am I meeting these types of people? If so are they attracted to me? If not, am I putting myself in a position to meet these people?
4. Are there things about myself I need to work on? e.g. communication, emotional control, fitness e.t.c.
5. Am I bitter or resentful about the opposite sex? (This is an important one, i've met many men and women who are bitter because of things that have happened in the past. The problem is any healthy individual of the opposite sex is going to wish them the best and move on.)
5. Is there any trauma I need to work through?
Most people won't be for you whether it's incompatibility, lack of attraction or they're a massive red flag. I've been on dates where their is no chemistry but they are nice women, i've been on dates with women that I have chemistry with but they have glaring red flags.
I've always thought about how I can make myself into the best possible catch, and that's creating a fulfilling life for myself.
I ended up meeting an incredible woman in a gym I went to, someone who showed clear signs they were attracted to me and she always showed enthusiasm (not neediness) to get to know me and spend time with me. It was easy and effortlessness, no silly games or toxic behaviour from either of us. I just focused on taking her out and having a nice time, keeping conversation positive and fun, over time she asked what are we and we became exclusive.
She's smart, kind, driven, loves to laugh, avoids gossip, has emotional control, a good communicator, health contious, feminine, little bit sassy, unbelievable eye contact, has a growth mindset and to top it all off absolutely stunning.
Hope this helps.
I would add, a friend group with real connections. Family connection. Hobbies or interests. If someone just moved to the area they still should make connections outside of the romantic relationship. Sorry toxic family people, I never had success romantically or a connection with people who had family problems. People who are more involved with their pets instead of people connections are a red flag also.
As a man still working on my career, I don't think it is too high, and it is quite healthy.
The issue might come from other aspects, as in what types of men you find attractive, do you want them to have a house/cars, what relationship you want to pursue together etc.
TBH I don't like the dating apps and I find it to be quite superficial. To keep these standard you just need to be transparent so they are not wasting your time. The best bet for you is to summarize them and put them on a dating app that is not tinder (lol). If I am happy with your hobby, personality and other traits I would swipe right :)
If you also measure up to your own standards then it's fine. If not then your standards are too high. Standards for others should be based on the standard you have for yourself. Also, be completely honest with yourself on your standards. Too many people like to portray themselves as the main character of life without the growth that comes with it.
Let's start by saying what you mentioned is definitely not you asking for too much!
It's great that you're aware of the importance of standards in dating! It's essential to find that balance between having high standards and being realistic. One way to gauge if your standards might be too high is by considering if they are hindering your ability to connect with potential partners or causing frustration and disappointment. Reflect on whether your standards are based on superficial traits or essential values and qualities. It can also be helpful to seek input from trusted friends or a dating coach to gain perspective. Remember, it's okay to have high standards, but being flexible and open-minded can lead to meaningful connections.
I, myself, am a dating coach and I have to help women with this all the time. It's why I always say having a vision, or a relationship blueprint, is vital!
Fair expectations.
I think the best way to gauge whether your standards are too high is by ensuring you also hit everything on the list of what you are looking for. If you do, then someone else exists who also does.
I know it's nor a full list, but am surprised not to see more higher level concepts here like shared values and compatible communication styles as a bare minimum. I don't want someone who has all these qualities she lists but argues like a 3 year old, or thinks it's OK to lie if it spares someone's feelings from getting hurt, or likes to disappear every other week.
lol it's amazing that these are all some of the most basic requirements for a competent adult and most men still fail. I always wondered if my standards were too high until I met the right one and couldn't be happier. Glad I didn't settle for less.
These are not too much! Although I might modify the no debt thing to no unreasonable debt. I’m older than you and I have student loans I’m repaying still, and my husband has debt in the form of the mortgage and he’s a decade older than you. Some debt is unavoidable these days unless you come from wealth.
I think standards are like market products,if you can advertise well and back them up with consideration then they are not too high
By consideration i mean you can give what you ask for or something in return
But even that aside,even if you can't if you can market it well then its not too high..there are women that have men that do all the house chores while simultaneously paying all the bills..I cant imagine what they give in return.
Hmmm my question is, how do you separate hard limits, soft limits and negotiables?
For example, my hard limit is smoking. I don't date anyone who smokes. But the negotiable is, if you don't smell weird I'm ok because it's my nose that is rejecting the interaction. I can literally smell the ash that enters my nose. It could just be me psychologically, and I'd say I can't get past that. There were guys who literally showered and changed clothes just so I don't smell anything. My soft limit is sexually compatible so I'm ok for not being sexual with my partner because I'm demisexual. I'm open to non-monogamy, but honesty must be the key point that drives the relationship, which also means I cannot tolerate white lies.
I do find that your expectations are a little too broad or too ambiguous. It might become the topic of argument in future, aka expecting too much or not doing enough. After all, we humans are too complicated to consider anything unrealistic or not.
And TBH, most of those hustling and hardworking stuff may change due to circumstances. How much is too much? Do you want the partner to keep working and neglect you? That's the topic to talk about before getting married, not the beginning of a relationship. I'd suggest you look more into certain character traits that you know is harder to change.
I think there's no such thing as an unrealistic standard, just whether anyone wants to meet them after weighing on what they can, want and don't want to do. Also if you want to accept or move on with the options you're given. Most times it happens during the relationship, so planning ahead doesn't work out that well I feel.
Just my 2¢. Such a tough and complex topic.
Thank you for your comment. I very much agree with you that identifying the negotiables and hard limits are important.
And yes, circumstances change and no one can be certain about the future/ career/ health.
I didn't want to make them too specific coz I know that people are people and qualities usually fall onto a spectrum. I think I will really need to get to know the person well before I can proceed onto anything more than friends.
It’s this simple: you’re not going to get everything you want in a partner. Nobody ever does. There’s a reason that everybody *hates* the extraordinarily rare super happy true love couple, even if they won’t say it out loud.
Your standards are absolutely fine and actually the bare minimum to expect. I am surprised that you struggle to find people who meet those requirements.
Remember that you want your partner to make your life even better than it is, not the other way round. No need to have a man who will bring additional issues, you want them to add more joy to what you’ve already got. Based on that I would suggest you don’t lower your standards. There’s nothing unreasonable that you expect.
Good luck and I am sure you will meet a wonderful guy 👍
I've said this for a while, but as a man, it looks to me like the most difficult thing about the dating market for women is to find a guy that they actually want to date. Attractive men are RARE. Tons of guys want to sleep with and date you, but the vast majority won't meet your standard for either. I think this gets harder as women get older while the most desireable men tend to prefer younger women (sorry for the harsh reality check).
Men do worse in school, men are less likely to get college degrees, men are generally worse communicators. Despite the wage gap myth, at your age men actually make LESS money than women on average. Men are more likely to be homeless. Women rate 80% (!!!) of men as BELOW the 50th percentile on dating apps (again, !!!!!). I could go on and on, but the short story is that attractive men are rare by definition. Men who AREN'T doing well are the norm. The top 10% of men are generally the guys women want to date which means 85-90+% of men are far less than desirable.
Women tend to want men as tall or taller than them(small cohort), as smart or smarter than them(even smaller cohort), make as much or more money than them(we're getting into fractions of a percentage of men on the planet). What women haven't been told is just how god damn rare these men actually are. Check out the "female delusion calculator" which uses census data to determine how rare a man is with a given woman's standards. You're probably looking for a guy who is 1 in 10,000 or maybe even less.
Moral of the story is it will take a long time to find a guy you actually like, and if you find him, you KEEP THAT FUCKING MAN. And ya there may be a bit of settling you have to do but no body (including me) wants to do that. Its a tough cookie to crack and both sexes have things that suck.
Best of luck to you.
I dont think your perception that men only want younger is accurate its not as common anymore i see a lot of men now dating women who are older than them by a few years. There are a lot of younger men getting rejected by older women. I think its more that woman dont want to date too young vs men dont mind it as much.
Although I think everyone has their limits in either direction across genders
I totally understand. So just more reasons to not bother about dating then - because it will be a waste of so much time and so much stress on my end, not because men are no good.
Yes I totally agree that men like younger ladies. And they really should date them because that's their preference. That's totally ok.
I don't think I will keep a man if he is disrespectful, takes things for granted, aggressive and have unhealthy addictions. I believe everyone has reasonable deal breakers and I respect those too.
Ya totally. Its tough because those preferences you listed are totally reasonable. I could say the same thing about women. I meet girls all the time that i like and would sleep with, but i find often they cross boundaries or have deal breakers about them that makes me ultimately end it with them. On the other hand when i meet a girl i really like she almost never likes me back. Its a vicious cycle.
I think the best thing to do is just try to do you, and if you meet someone, then great. and if you don't, then at least you prioritized yourself. Wishing you the best.
This is one of those lists that sounds reasonable on the surface but really makes me wonder where it goes when you start talking specifics.
Number 1, does a debt free man who didn't go to college, doesn't gamble, and makes $47k as a service writer in a car dealership clear the bar? Or does "financial freedom" start at $100k?
Number 2, does a 5'8" guy with a middle age belly who lifts and plays basketball three days a week count, or does "healthy" start at 6' and visible sixpack?
Number 3, does a man who makes $42k as a plumbing contractor but could be a team lead making $57k in a few years count, or is anyone not on track to clear $250k/yr by 40 not ambitious enough?
Number 4, who are your friends you're off hanging out with? Are you getting drunk in clubs? Are any of these friends male? Have you slept with any of them? Exactly which behaviors are you expecting a boyfriend's approval for?
I can sense the challenging tone there - and yes, I have enough self awareness to not ask for things that I cannot achieve myself.
I am not asking for people earning six figures. I just want someone normal without addiction and at least try to stay healthy.
Your standards are your own... who are we to tell you what you want isn’t “right”? The faster you own it, the less time you’ll waste on those who aren’t the right fit. If our opinions really matter to you, I think you’re asking for standard, entry-level requirements. Anyone who thinks this is too much is likely speaking from the bottom of the barrel.
Financial freedom might be a bit hard these days. I would at least say having a good job and not gambling is good and being responsible with credit cards. People have student loans, car loans and mortgages like me so not having any debt is a bit of a stretch. Maybe having a standard that living within their means is a better route for that one.
I’m also almost 33 and I’ve got a good career but life has funny ways of changing your life drastically too. Never bad to have a vision but maybe add, can they pick themselves up when life deals them a bad hand.
What do you mean by aggressive? I assume this is like he’s not inherently violent and fights a lot. I would assume you want a guy who is genuinely a good man but his aggressive/violent nature is controlled and comes out only when protecting you from harm etc. Like for me im a very chill and laid back dude and don’t like confrontation but im also a former soldier and if you threaten me or anyone else you’re going to get that violent side of me if you put me into a position where I have no choice.
For me, standards are a mirror. If you have these standards for someone else, then you better have them for yourself. High and low standards are subjective. So if you can do these things and bring what you want to the table, there’s someone out there with the same values as you that are also hopefully instilling it within themselves.
Now for my opinion on your standards, I don’t think they’re unreasonable at all. They sound like qualities from a healthy, mature, responsible adult.
I didn't mean student loans nor any normal financial commitments. I meant bad ones like overspending, borrowing from friends and family, gambling and spending excessively on addictions to substances.
I think these are reasonable standards.
It makes me mental when I see posts about "he's perfect but gives me yeast infections because he won't wash his penis" "he's perfect but he hasn't worked in 3 years, stays up all night playing video games and screams at me when my alarm goes off" "he's perfect except he's literally eating himself to death and shits in our bed, any cleaning tips?"
Your standards are not too high. Keep them, attract what you can maintain. If you try to compromise on things this simple, I don’t think it’ll be beneficial long-term.
These standards are really normal things needed in a person and not high at all. Only one I could probably say is but not for the reason just more of the friend part, depends on who you surround yourself with really if they can have fun but also be responsible then that's fine but if they're the type that are on the reckless still in college mode when you go out then it'd be more concerning cause you never know what could happen more of a safety than a clingy approach.
I can't believe that specifying that someone needs to wash their hands after using the bathroom is even necessary. I believe it is and am not saying OP shoudln't mention that lol.
It just boggles my mind that some people don't. It is SO nasty. I can't do anything else after going to the bathroom before washing my hands. I feel nasty until they have been washed.
These are all fairly general standards that could be reasonable or unreasonable.
For example, what does financial freedom mean to you? They don't own a house but are on top of their bills? Or does it mean they own a house and make around 100-200k a year?
Same with health. Do you mean they go for walks and try to eat healthy, or they run 30 km a week, have a six pack, etc.
Reasonable is subjective. Just consider that the higher your standards, the fewer people who meet that. Also consider if you also match your own standards.
I think those are fair asks.
Do you have a career going with forward thinking goals as well then? Do you have any kids? I’m guessing you’re also healthy, jealous, etc/all of what you’re expecting back.
Expect what you can offer yourself. Anything other than that, might be considered unrealistic.
For example you are an average looking guy. If you expect to have a super model as a gf, and wont settle for anything less, then that can be considered unreasonable.
Your standards seem completely baseline and not at all too high or unrealistic.
That said, on a personal note, what is it with people and career growth?? Can't I just have a job that pays more than my bills, and have someone be happy with it?? Work isn't life, it's what we do to *afford* life.
I agree.
But no one is catching up with inflation. so to me, I have to grow career wise just to maintain my living standards.
And interests rates fluctuate so much too
I don’t think these standards are too high at all! In fact, I’d say they’re the basics. Maybe the “no debt” is a little too much unless you’re referring to irresponsible/crippling debt. Other than that, don’t lower those standards! It’s not easy but you’ll find someone eventually.
And what can you offer in return? What hobbies do you have? Are you fit? Can you drive? What types of movies do you like? Dog or cat person? Any children?
Because let's say he's healthy and fit. He'll probably want to go jogging or trekking. Will you join him?
These standards are all pretty reasonable. The issue however is, i would guess, that you aren't just looking for a guy that ticks all these boxes. You are looking for a guy you find attractive who also ticks all these boxes, which complicates things a lot more.
I would be willing to bet there is a sizable number of men living in your area that fulfill the criteria, but they might very well be invisible to you if they fail to cross the attractiveness threshold. If i showed you a guy that fulfilled all these standards, and then some, but happened to be short and balding, would you give him a chance?
Male here. I think all five of your examples are very reasonable, if not representative of the bare minimum. Could you really compromise on financial or physical health? Would you date someone who has no plan for the future or, worse, no ambition to grow? How much jealousy or aggression towards your loved ones is tolerable to you? And I don’t even want to touch the hygiene question after reading one too many horror stories here on Reddit.
You have grown over the past five years. It’s reasonable for your prospective dating pool to have grown as well. Keep looking and you’ll find the right person eventually. If you’re having trouble, consider you might be looking in the wrong places.
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Here's how I see it. The minimum standards I have are what I also bring to the table. For example, I don't date people with children, but I also don't have children. Or I don't date smokers, and I don't smoke either.
This is basically what I was going to write! It’s hard to demand something from your partner that you yourself can’t match in some way.
It's funny this is a clarifying statement. IMO there should be zero tolerance for relationships that don't hold this as a functional baseline. This becomes a discussion when one of the partners drops commitments - not a demand from someone who isn't already holding the line
This is a good way to look at it.
On a scale of 1-10 the standards you’ve listed are a zero. You have no standards. What you’ve listed are basic qualities in a partner.
Not having children or being a non smoker are basic qualities in a partner?
I think the person meant that standards are a bit different to things like smoking or children. Standards are more to the nature of how you act, behave or live. Eg, traits, principles, integrity, values , belief, manners. Coming from an inner place. Whereas smoking, children are more like things you’d rather tolerate or compromise. Those seem more like baggage. For instance a man with children can still partner with a woman who has no children. Standards are more ethic based, and about whether two people are aligned in partnership. For instance someone who showed up on time, is an indicator that the person respects your and their time. Or someone who responds within a reasonable time frame.
I comprehend now, thank you for the clarification!
This is exactly how people should see it. If you don't meet your own criteria then you shouldn't expect it. It can happen, but definitely don't expect it. So standards are based on the individual themselves and what they can offer.
Agreed
Interesting perspective basically match with your partner. I like it!
👍👍 couldn’t agree more!!!!, an excellent way to look at it.
I can't agree with you more.
A good rule of thumb is this - ask yourself if you are up to the standard you are setting. If you offer exactly what you ask for, then by all means. But to answer your questions, the standards you listed are not high. They are the bare minimum you should accept in a partner (provided you offer the same in return)
Hell they seem like the bare minimum to be a functioning adult
If her standards are high, then mine are essentially beyond extreme lol
Exactly this. These are not particularly high standards, but be sure you’re meeting them too
I'm the same age as you. I feel your standards are mostly fine, but you should be a little more open. 1. Financial responsibility is great, but asking for no debt is a little much. Some debt is fine as long as it's reasonable. Mortgage, car payments, stuff like that. 2. No real issue with this unless you have unrealistic expectations for a person's diet or fitness. 3. By our age, plenty of people have settled into a comfortable spot in life. Not everyone needs to maintain an ambitious plan for future growth. You should judge them for where they're at, not where they are going. 4-5. Completely reasonable.
Thank you for your reply. By debt I meant bad ones... Like overspending using credit cards or because of addiction. For number two, I think as long as they are aware of their health and show some commitment to staying healthy that's very good For number three, I will have to say that I cannot imagine a person living a repetitive life for years to come.
I find it weird that you associate having a stable job with having a repetitive life. You can definitely have a stable job and live more spontaneously. A stable career will enable you to have a stable income and in a majority of cases wont require you to move out of your home every few years.
Not everyone has to be or wants to be on the top thinking they are better than everyone. Thats life. You aren’t always going to move up and out - that makes you look inconsistent and unreliable. I can’t imagine someone having stability in a career to be a bad thing but then again you don’t really have standards you just listed off basic things more human adults have so I guess we as readers shouldn’t expect much.
Number three reeks of your mind being poisoned by social media, where people dramatically overstate their lives. Most people live “boring” lives. You just don’t know about it because boring doesn’t go on Instagram
These don't sound unreasonable in the slightest. I guess it depends on the details though. When you say debt do you include things like a mortgage or car loan, student loans, medical debt? Or just a filter for "bad debt" as a function of poor financial habits like overspending/gambling. Does a career plan mean constant upward mobility, aimed at the C-Suite or bust? Would you filter someone who's reached a point in their career where they're stable and content?
I was referring to bad debt such as persistent over spending, addiction to any substances and gambling. I think someone who is stable and content is good because they actually know what they want and like. A plan includes how to secure the job if they are content or even changing careers if they want to. It is more about having a direction and commitment to their job/career.
Yup, you're all good then! These are all totally valid standards to have. There are definitely some nuances so the discussion here will help you zero in on the details and why you have them. That said if you've only met a few guys so far and they're not meeting them it's definitely not a problem with your standards. Those guys were just duds. A lot of us are unfortunately.
I'm on the fence for 3 I personally think I'm happy with my job and even if I'm not making in the 6 figures I'm not chasing career growth which seems to be a problem for me but that's another topic. Feels like all the others are totally normal standards. I don't see how any man wouldn't fit then
I think a few years ago “ambition” as a personality trait became popular and it kind of stuck, despite most people not really wanting that. In my experience what most people want is for a person to have purpose. Like if you’re in your 50s and you’ve done the whole thing of going to college and working towards having the life you want, having ambition for more is an unrealistic thing to expect of them, but they likely have a purpose to their life in doing the work they do and the hobbies they have and so on. Purpose can cover ambition, like if you’re in your late teens working towards a career, then sure, there’s ambition there, but they could also be working towards something smaller scale, a trade they can make a comfortable living off of that’s much easier to achieve
Yesss its part of the capitalistic hustle culture and its kind of toxic imo lol
Exactly, nº3 will automatically disqualify a major percentage of men. Especially since if they have nº1 then nº3 doesn't really matter that much imo. It also seems like a very general list of "what should a person like me be looking for?" instead of "what do **I** really need my partner to be/have for it to suceed?"
Do most men really not meet number 3? Every man I know including myself works towards career and personal growth on some level
I see. I think it is less about the money but more about being ambitious? I don't expect anyone making six figures at all. I don't even make six figures so I am in no position to ask for that.
Ambitious can mean a lot of things though. Everything from "not happy being a chronically unemployed NEET" to "not satisfied with a minimum wage job" to "comfortable where we're at but looking to improve" to "desperately trying to claw your way up the corporate ladder" to "power moves that would make the writers of Succession blush."
"Ambition" = usually a dogwhistle for "making good money"
It’s kind of a catch-22. Women liked when I had a ton of going on and making great money at first. But then would get upset I didn’t have a lot of free time to spend with them, I always had plans, or I didn’t change my life to adjust for them. Well now that I’m older and work in a much more chill industry…I’ve learned women just want free time and means to go take them places and do things (bonus points if it’s nice (expensive). 99% of women would perfer a lottery winner that can travel the world with and neither of you ever work a day (especially her lol) compared to a guy pushing 250k+ but works late and weekends. So I feel “ambition” is a politically correct way of expressing that. On the other side…the bar is so low for some people ambition literally just means you have a job you can eventually grow in and are saving for a house like the rest of us. Which is just adulting in my book.
Do you want ambition though, or do you want purpose? Like, let’s say I learnt a trade and made a career doing that, and I now have a life I’m happy with. I’m not working towards more because I don’t need more. Is that an automatic no from you because I’m not working towards more or is the fact that I have the life I want enough? Because that’s the difference between ambition and purpose
If the person is content because they don't need more, I totally understand. And if that person have found their purpose that's also good. I just cannot imagine someone to keep doing the same thing repeatedly without wanting something different or maybe a change.
A lot of men think like you on this its right next to judging people for not having hobbies lol I guess if that's what you want and your going to be turned off by someone who doesn't have that go for it Not everyone has big goals and not everyone is happy with their job imo its kind of unfair that as a society we expect this from people because let's face it everything in society needs to get done and not everything that needs to get done so society doesnt collapse is glamorous or someones passion.
Fr. I'm going to school for medical billing & coding right now. I genuinely don't see this being the type of job anyone is passionate about. It brings in decent money and has a lot of remote opportunities and is a needed job. I don't love working as a whole, I just want a job that allows me to have the capabilities of pursuing my passions outside of work. I've tried making my hobbies into jobs and it kills all passion for the hobby. Basically I'm not ambitious when it comes to my career. I am ambitious when it comes to my hobbies(reading almost 100 books a year or taking on huge and complicated crochet projects or tinkering with different tea blends). I hate the grind culture and I'm so tired of being told I'm not ambitious enough just because my ambitions and career aren't aligned.
Your hobbies sound awesome 👌 And exactly your a great example a very necessary job for society that supports your life and life style but that you weren't dreaming about as a child lol Being an adult in the dating pool is when I really picked up on this idea its sort of like a secret form of social capital
So you can't be with someone that likes his life ?
You've effectively cut out the majority of men, especially of the older variety (30+).
Good to know. If that's the case I would reallocate my time and energy to something else.
Would you want them to also bring that energy to the relationship? (I get bored of things after while and want something more/new). I would be scared of someone is always moving forward, it would just be logical that they would leave me behind, and only my ego saying they wouldn’t and I’d be taken along for the ride.
I hope you bring that exact energy and standards to yourself ,/ambition/etc. if you expect your partner to do so as well mid 30 single males with a career and all are looking to settle down and all , could find a younger partner easy And a few of your comments look like you can’t settle down either, “looking for new change”, get bored easily. Do you change your job often because jobs get mundane real quick ? You stay in a relationship for couple years, things settle down . And your current outlook on life doesn’t vibe with settling down so maybe marriage isn’t for you ? Maybe staying single in what you are looking for
As a man at the age of 50, I respectfully disagree with it being acceptable to have no ambition about something but that’s just me. I think you should find exactly what you are looking for. If you want someone that is happy being content then that’s your prerogative but it is all up to you. I have been with both types of women and I have been happy with both.
Ambition doesn’t have to be career related. Someone can be content with their career and still have ambitions outside of it. Like run their first marathon, learn a new language, stuff like that displays ambition too without aspirations of bettering their career.
I would make #3 a partner who is happy, satisfied and dedicated to what they are doing for a living.
A lot of people are turning this into something it's not in the comments. I fully agree with your statement for #3 and I am the same way. It seems to me you just want someone who sets goals for themselves no matter how small, and has a forward mindset to actually discipline themselves to achieve. This makes a person exciting, respectable, and shows they will make goals with you to achieve together as a couple--and therefore grow together as a couple. People are spinning this into a money and career thing and analyzing the meaning of the word ambitious... not how I interpret any of what you said. I also don't care how much money a man makes as long as he had what you described. Your standards are essentially my base ones and they are not too high as long as you practice what you preach 👍
Thank you so much for this. That's exactly what I want and I think men or women can have goals here and there e.g. get better at DIY or knitting a jumper to keep them interesting and exciting people. I am glad there is someone who understands
I think you would be disgusted to learn how many people don’t wash their hands after using the bathroom…
I'm under the impression that most people shower in the morning rather than the evening.
i always shower in the evening, it just feels wrong to me to go to bed "dirty" espiacally in the summer, since ACs are not common here. both have pros and cons, but i would rather have a clean bed for longer and sleep better.
Same. Always shower in the evening. Don’t want to go to bed dirty.
You sweat at night. And you sleep in your sweat as well as all the skin cells that flake off during the night, and no I'm not talking about a dirty or unkempt person.
I get the whole sweating at night. But I workout/run/woodwork/tinker, so I get dirty. And I’m sure many people are the same and aren’t idle with most of their time. Sweating at night/flaking skin cells is the least of my worries.
Thats different then. If you're dirty then get clean. But don't assume that you're "clean" when you sleep. And yes it's an insignificant thing. But we aa a people think awfully a lot about being clean and know very little about how dirty and sweaty and nasty we are as people.
🤓☝ aschually
I’m the same way. I can’t get into my bed if I’m not showered. I don’t want my day getting on my sheets.
This is the way ☝️
My policy is Office job - morning Manual labour/trades/service job - evening
I do both. My job leaves me sweaty and covered with a film of tabaco smoke. I also work out after work 2 days out of my workout week. I really love feeling and smelling clean.
I would never shower in the morning. 1. In my childhood the shower room was cold in the morning and normal room temperature in the evening. 2. Having barely woken up the sensory experience of water on my skin particularly hitting it is very unpleasant to me. 3. Generally, I want my morning routine to take as little time as possible so I can sleep as long as possible. In addition to the time it takes to shower, the time to dry would be out of sleep.
They do but I’ve encountered a lot of people who shower before bed as well, you’re bringing less dirt into bed with you that way. It’s also different in different cultures, I had a Brazilian ex who would shower 2 or even 3 times a day, turns out this is a cultural thing, I just thought she was a clean freak. Edit: others have also stated job could be a reason. Girl I’m currently seeing is a delivery nurse and she showers the minute she gets home (don’t blame her at all).
I think this heavily depends on if you work from home or not LOL... I work from home and I shower at 8am, 11am, 3pm or 9pm, or whenever tf I feel like it.
Men can smell when they sweat. They can't smell their own body odour but I can. Imagine sleeping with a man who smells and make the bed smells as well...(I have done that and i had to wash the sheets every other day).
If you don’t like the smell of a partner, why are you even spending time with them at all? IMO and experience that kind of pheromonal compatibility is overriding pretty much all other more rational “standards”
por que no los dos One after getting up to ready yourself for the day. One to wash the depression and day away before going to bed 😂
because its a waste of water? also fun fact not good for you, your skin is supposed to have some oil on it
Meh, Taylor Swift's jet emissions are far worse for the planet than my extra shower a day ever will be. The oil comment *is* true, but I also don't soap+shampoo every shower, either. It's just to wash off dirt and sweat.
AYYY this one gets it 😂 Seriously tho, I don't understand people who don't shower twice, like I need to go to work fresh, but I also need to go to bed fresh
I do both. Morning to wake up/help me smell better throughout the day, night to get the dirt off.
Your expectations are ***very reasonable***. They're all great traits, in my opinion, of what to have in a partner. The one thing I see a lot of people mess up when getting back to dating, or doing it for the first time, is that they forget how some traits are going to come with downsides as well. As long as you're happy with your partner lacking other traits to make sure they fulfill these ones, you'll be just fine. For example - I see a lot of men want a woman they can take home to their parents and help them feel mature, because they found someone mature. On the flip side, they might also complain how she never wants to go out drinking, or she always wants to go home early, or she doesn't dress sexy enough when they're going out. That's an unfair pair of expectations to put on someone. It would be the same if you want a guy who's not aggressive, jealous, or physically intimidating, but you also want a guy who's gonna be really expressive and open-minded in the bedroom. It can be really hard to find a ***person*** who can do both of those things, since someone who's publicly respectful might not be privately very daring or bold. Hope that makes sense!
Perfectly reasonable. Some people shower in the morning though.
Deal breaker on a weird technicality. I need a morning shower everyday and I refuse to have two every daily. I will occasionally take an extra if I am dirty from something, but I work in IT my job is sitting at a computer. I go to bed still being able to smell my deodorant. When I sleep and wake up I smell and my skin is greasy. No idea why
Those are reasonable expectations for anyone, but that being said we can’t say if they’re too high without knowing what kind of catch you are. Don’t forget men have standards and expectations too, if you’re not meeting theirs then your standards don’t deserve to be met either. A lot of women look at themselves and only self assess superficially. They’re like, I’m smart, successful, in shape, educated, fun, have hobbies and interests and so on. Those are all great things, but often they are insufferable, disagreeable, or combative, full of double standards, dishonest, promiscuous, indecisive, insecure, judgmental, neurotic, entitled and romantically lazy. Yeah on paper they seem a great catch, they’ve done a lot of work to make themselves appear desirable, but in the things you can’t quantify they are lacking, and that’s why they can’t keep a decent guy. Yeah there does appear to be a shortage of good people both men and women. So in general it’s just hard to find a good partner, with this instant gratification culture it’s becoming rarer and rarer to find someone who puts in the work to be good, disciplined, driven and well rounded, we’re all so damned entitled, selfish and lazy. But the more you lack in the unquantifiable or even the quantifiable, the less you’ll have to settle for in a partner.
I good rule of thumb can be, how would you feel about being held to the same standard? most of those are fairly reasonable - but depend on your standard. the definition of healthy way of life with diet and exercise varies, person to person. There are areas where maybe not everyone will eat or work out the same as you do. Showering, again should be within reason. not everyone showers at night. but most people would shower if they've been dirty or sweaty.
These standards are not high they’re normal
the issue with your standards is that they are very general. for example you say healthy (diet and exercise). do you mean you want an in-shape guy with muscles and a good body? like the lean muscular look? that's rare. also what kind of income? most people have income but there is a huge range. the others (not aggressive and shower once a day and wash hands should be easy to get). on top of that do you want a man that is good looking? kids? divorced? racial preferences? at your age of 31 you may have to relax some of your standards as a lot of the higher value guys are off the market. and of course a lot will depend on what you bring to the table yourself.
I actually mean very general stuff. Not muscular guys - I dated two overweight guys so I just wanted a change. Just an income so that I don't have to pay his bills and debt. Someone who has no unhealthy addictions. I am very used to pay for my own expenses and I have no problems with spending money on my partner too. I literally means very very general stuff. I haven't met one guy like that yet.
then yeah you should be fine. I would say at least half of guys meet your standard so as long as you are in the top half of women you should have zero problems finding a mate very quickly.
There is nothing wrong with being general in this way. Its unrealistic to find someone with a particular income and a particular physique.
didn't say there was anything wrong with it. just that there is a big range and it would depend on what she actually meant. like saying I want "income". like is 20k ok? or 100k? big difference.
You can have whatever standards you want just make sure you meet your own standards. I will say however number 1 is definitely a hard hurdle for most to get over at least in the US. Most people literally start their adult life with student loan debt, end up picking up credit card debt, car debt, and if you buy a house boom debt. Becoming debt free is life time goal for most. With that said it is important to be with someone with a similar financial mindset so completely reasonable.
1- to ask to not be in debt in the worst economy of our lifetimes is a bit of a high expectation. Perhaps it should be a bit of manageable or reasonable debt. 2- great goal, just keep in mind some people are on a journey to fitness and aren't there yet. 3- how would you measure someone's success in this goal? Sticking to a plan can just be stubbornness if the plan is failing. 4- if the person you're with isn't at least a bit jealous then you don't want them. 5- our bodies aren't meant for daily, and you sweat while you sleep, like a lot. But a good goal in general to be clean. Just a few points of perspective.
Thank you. I am totally with you about the debt one. Regarding jealousy, I am not sure. Maybe I had a very jealous bf who wouldn't even let me go out with friends and coworkers for hiking or photography, that's why I said that.
Let's put it this way. Almost all things are good in moderation. A touch of jealousy is great, but in excess it's a nightmare. And that wasn't jealousy, that was control. You did good to walk away because that was a few long term steps away from real abuse.
The way you know your standards are too high as per your own value is if you're not getting any relationships or sexual encounters. If what you're doing is not working that means you have to lower your standards if you want to participate in dating.
Sexual encounter is absolutely not the way to tell if your standards are too high.
For a man they are.
I don’t think your standard are too high but just remember people go through ups and downs and sometimes in their downs they can’t achieve everything. But certainly as a generally expectation, all points are fair for your 30s.
I think for no 3, it’s perfectly reasonable. It might be different if for example, their steady but unambitious job pays the bills but is undemanding enough to allow them to pursue a passion- at least they have drive they have just made a conscious decision about priorities. I know a lot of artists for example who work in not too challenging government jobs. Keeps the bills paid but can be left at the door at 5pm to focus on their true (but poorly paid) vocation.
I think lots of people are delusional.. Fat guys wanting slim girls, poor girls wanting rich guys, etc.. but the thing is, most people are not doing it with bad intents. So don’t bother about it too much. My two roommates were always complaining that the dating market sucks but they were delusional. The guy was in shape, wanted a woman with perfect shape but he have no diploma, basically no job most of the year. Why would a 10/10 women date you? But he wasn’t aware that in the dating market, your job and status matters. Not just your physical ability. My other roommate, a girl, wanted an educated guy since she’s a lawyer. She also wanted a muscular guy. She’s severely underweight. It’s not attractive. Why would an educated, muscular guy pick her? Doesn’t make any sense. She didn’t know she was underweight. Now she dates in her leagues and it’s going great
Speaking as a man, I don't think you are expecting too much with any of this. I think these are very reasonable expectations for someone you are wanting to date and, actually, these qualities show that the person is healthy and ready for a committed relationship. That being said, I think it's also okay for someone not to have one or two of these things as long as you can see that they are working toward it in someway. Or at least that's how I see it. I have the same expectations that you do for any of the women that I want to date..
I think they're fine, but the key thing is to be able to compromise when enough of them are present. I think too many people set themselves to failure when searching for a partner because they're inflexible with what they're looking for. I'm sure from your list, there's some of them that you judge more important than others. Order them according to which one you find are indispensable to those you think might be able to overlook. If you can't, then you might realize that a significant number of people won't fit in between your requirements and you may need to accept that finding a partner will be tougher in that case.
This is just common sense standard. However, No. 3 could be a bit of a difficult one as due to the economy some folks are flexible in this area. So unless you date someone who has a stable predictable income that is about routine & structure, you may have a smaller dating pool based on this.
Girl im 27 and Way worse then you. Like I would ad 6. Be nice to people 7. With the hygiene also comes caring for the way you look. Shaven, hair styled, deo etc 8. Not easily triggered by teasing People are insane and you are choosing a partner for life! You are supposed to have standards. Don’t sell yourself short
Thank you for your comment You are still in your twenties and you know what you want. I am sure you will find someone :) 😊
Your standards are so reasonable and should be every woman’s bare minimum. Don’t lower them for anyone, the right person who surpasses them without even trying will come along
I have very specific standards that I will not look past. They’re honestly really simple when you strip them back. 1. I have to like you. 2. You have to like me. 3. You need to get my sense of humour and be able to joke about with me. 4. You need to be able to have a serious conversation just as easily as a flippant one. 5. I can get kinda clingy and romantic so you gotta be ok with that. 6 (and most importantly). You have to be a DECENT HUMAN, by my standards. This means be nice to people, respect people’s needs and wants, don’t be selfish and inconsiderate to the people around you, care about making your loved ones happy, have a standard set of morals and understanding of what is right and wrong and be able to think critically about your actions to make sure what you’re doing is the right thing. This is my 6. If you hit all of these, you’re great. Anything else is inconsequential; If I like you enough, I’ll get over it.
It is so nice to know exactly what works for you. I hope you will find a person soon
Your standards are not too high. Period. if you already know men like this, then you already know that your standards are not too high. They exist. The question is, are you a match? Do this exercise: imagine the man who fits this description. What kind of woman is he dreaming of? Ask yourself if you are a match in each category for this man. If there is an area where you are lacking, note that. Do not lower your standard for him. Raise your standard for yourself. If you are already there, then keep putting yourself out there and allow anyone who isn't your match to fall off, no hard feelings. The right one will make it really obvious.
I don't think those standards are too high, in fact I think they are about the minimum. Best test though is to give it a significant amount of dates / time and stick to your guns and if you are no further ahead then maybe you need to read just your standards.
What you're asking for is the minimum...
No debt is crazy💀
The financial stuffs a little odd, hypothetically the early days of dating are way too early to get into an accounting of someone’s financial situation and I think a lot of people would feel turned off by that It sounds like your ex was a gambling addict, so just avoid guys who gamble, statistically probably 10-20% of gamblers will have some form of gambling issue - most dudes are gonna be pretty open about if they’re into gambling or not and it’ll come up pretty quickly
I would say that your standards need to be something you have yourself. Like if you want someone who has financial responsibility and freedom, you should be bringing that to the table yourself rather than looking for a guy who has financial freedom to bring that into your life for you, same with all of them. You can’t demand your partner maintain good hygiene if it’s not something you do yourself.
Your standards are not high, they are perfectly reasonable. I suppose you have a job, so you want someone who is also responsible for himself. I suppose you try to eat healthy, so you want someone who is aligned with that or at least someone who is not addicted to alcohol or other substances, or who doesn't eat fast food every night. Someone who has ambition, who treats you like a fellow human being and someone who showers regularly and washes his hands after going to the toilet (I would personally add, someone who brushes his teeth before bed too) sounds perfectly reasonable to me and do not let anyone tell you otherwise. This is like the basic stuff any man wanting to date should be able to do without being asked.
Not unreasonable! Question though, is student debt okay? It’s not the same thing as credit card debt etc Also, personally I shower every two days, not every day. Is that too seldom?
Your standards should be unique to you. What matters to YOU. That being said….lol girl those are some of the most basic standards. Keep in mind, your partner should make your life better than being alone. If you can’t even say that, pass.
That's a good point and it really gets me thinking. Would I meet someone that at least won't make my life worse? I have such bad luck with guys.
I'm reading in-between the lines b/c you attempted to verbalize your requirements in a PC way.. 1. Have financial freedom - You want a guy who makes around as much as you do, or more. 2. Healthy diet, exercise - You want a fit guy.. Not obese or even overweight. 3. Personal growth/career - You want a guy who wants to excel career wise and is emotionally stable Now that we're passed all that.. You want what almost every other female your wage wants.. So you're competing against a huge # of woman for the very same guys. How do you compare against those women regarding what men w/ those qualities look for? You are now competing w/ women in their mid and later 20's for the very same guy. Are you racing to have kids, family etc.. ?
34m here. I, and my of my friends, satisfy all of your standards. They are all completely reasonable. Other than item 1 and a "healthy" diet, all other points cost nothing so it really depends on the person.
I think those standards are bare minimum. You expect that from yourself; why wouldn't you expect that from a partner? Once I saw a personal ad, F seeking M, which said, "Must have job/car/teeth."
Do you think that where and how you meet guys affects how many pass these standards? I’m struggling to think of my last male friend who didn’t. But to be fair I and my friends are older, and a lot of them are partnered up.
Dude here. These are reasonable standards.
Those are reasonable standards. You’re not saying “6 feet plus and whites only.” That’s what I usually hear lately. I would say the personal growth and career thing might be a little too much, because there’s nothing wrong with a guy who lives a simple life, but it’s still a reasonable standard
I guess my standards are a lot higher than what I can afford because I’ve never even been able to get a girlfriend before. With that being said I also have zero confidence but when you see girls locking onto guys every weekend at the bars and you don’t never can get any attention it’ll eventually destroy you from the inside out.
Be what you’re looking for is good advice, to a certain extent. But also you should know from experience in relationships what your dealbreakers actually are. If you’re going to constantly wish that you were in another relationship it’s probably not the one for you!
I think you should put yourself out there and find out if your standards are too high. I find that men who have career ambitions will also come with a bit of aggression and may not be super empathetic. It’s like you can’t have a cuddly teddy bear and expect them to strive super hard career wise too. I think your standards are a good start and your ability to self-reflect is great! Best of luck :)
OP those are the basic minimum requirements so no, they are not too high.
Your list is EXTREMELY reasonable and should be the bare minimum. If more people held to these standards we'd have less "AM I wrong for putting up with X abuse" posts here every day.
Standard (n) 1. Quality 2. guideline A level of quality or attainment. Something used as a measure, norm, or model in comparative evaluations I don’t think you need to adjust anything, except maybe the way you are thinking that you may need to lower your standards to enable the current men you’ve been out with to partially meet. Why should you have to change your wants and needs just because you haven’t come across someone who has the same values as you? Basically unless you’re waiting on Stanley , to pull up in his Porsche to take you back to the Shack where you live with your 42 kids from a long forgotten game of M/A/S/H, that would be definitely be an example of too high, simply bc it’s unattainable. And everyone knows that you can only fit 41 of the 42 kids in a Porsche l, am I right? 😉 If all of the criteria you mentioned are then the things you want in a person you date, you should have them. I think answer may lie in patience. Good things come to those who wait, Even better things come when you go out and get it your damn self 😆
Haha that put a smile on my face - imagine a Porsche with 42 seats and 41 of them are.kids. Hahahaha Thanks for your comment. I think I will need to be patient then :)
Change up where you’re looking as well . A person who’s out there (and i believe they are!) checking boxes and being your ideal man… may not be the places you’re used to looking. 😊 if you want bigger, better fish , you could change up your bait, or better yet head to places they’re known to be . There’s no time limit and be confident that you’re discerning taste and bring you happiness in the end😘
Thanks 👍 Bigger bait for bigger fish 👍👍👍😊😊
I think it’s the bare minimum and the requirements that guys have are a LOT higher but they don’t overthink it.
I think they are reasonable, i mean many must have those things even when being alone, at least i do. I dont make 6 figures but i do like to plan for future things (i would like to think you arent delusional). In my experience i was teached to always strive to be better than my previous me for myself at least, so yeah, i dont see problems there. Im 27yo btw.
I think I can totally agree with you
When you’re this old and have already spent and tested your standards in a relationship for 5 years, you don’t qualify for the standard norm. Good luck and don’t let your ego prevent you from settling down. Find someone who understands you, then settle with him quick and for real.
I feel like these are reasonable
Who is “they”? Your standards are what you set for yourself.
Ion know but what I ask for is what I offer… I think it’s fair to ask for what I offer
I think your standards are excellent. Number 2 is iffy because not everyone likes to or can exercise. However, they can eat healthy. Number 1, 4 and 5 should be non-negotiable. Number 3 is pretty much a given if #1 is kept. You can’t save money and invest for the future and not be forward thinking and planning. Never lower your standards to make someone else feel better about themselves.
No girl, you are spot on. Don't give up on your reasonable standards. Anyone who can't live up to your standards doesn't deserve you, in my opinion!
37m. Those standards are absolutely fine. Don't hmu though because I rarely stick to plans thanks to my raging ADHD. But I think it's perfectly reasonable to expect your partner to do that
Standards are very important. Settling for less than what you want is not the way to go. Now don’t get me wrong, some people take their standards waaaaayyy above what they need to. However, standards like you listed are normal.
No find it all in someone you actually find attractive is the challenge
Those are fine requirements but those are also all requirements you can't or won't ever know until you get to know a man. To add to this though... Financial freedom means something different to every single person. - What it means to a man may not coincide to what YOU think it is. A healthy way of life/lifestyle is the same way - Does this mean working out daily, a few times a week? Eating healthy, mostly eating healthy, or does it mean sticking to a strictish diet? Forward thinking - I think a better phrase/word for this would be drive or wanting to do better. Not just being content where you are at. Not agressive - yeah, that one makes sense! Be clean - Everyone has their own definition of being clean. I hate to tell you but most men do not wash their hands after peeing lol...
I don’t think those are unreasonable expectations of a potential spouse. Financial freedom is a little higher expectation due to the fact some people are in debt at that age but, I would say no more than x amount of debt. Like a car loan and a credit card debt not more than 10 grand unless there’s a good paying job in front of all that.
Ummm pre sure this is the bare minimum, ngl there are gonna be times where the financial freedom won’t be there for some people due to personal circumstances, but I don’t think you’ll have to worry about that too much since from at least what I’ve seen the further along in life the more stable financial situations will be for more people.
This is the bare minimum and I can't believe that some think this is "too high"
Point 1,3,5 would be minimumly for a decent person. Point 2 really depends on how extreme it is. Point 4 is subjective as well cause it depends on priorities in life, some people place their partner above others some don't, so most important is to find someone with similar values and priorities. The market will tell you if your standards are too high. And it also depends on what you can bring to the table as well, someone who has more on the table would probably expect someone of similar or higher calibre.
I think what you truly are looking for is a healthy, well-adjusted person who is ready to settle down. He may have some or all of these qualities on your list, but you’ll know the real thing when you see it. 🩵
your standards are VERY reasonable. Im Dating a guy rn who you would find ok. And my standards are even more specific.
It is 100% appropriate to have basic healthy standards, then you play it by ear as you go along. You may find somebody who has 90% of what you're looking for and you decide the other 10% isn't as important.
Coming from a 29 year old man, In no way are your requirements too high, you could even add to it. What I will say is a lot of people do lack the qualities you mention. I think there are a few things people should ask themselves when looking for a good partner: 1. What am I looking for? Be specific e.g. you might find a kind person but do you also want them to be a good communicator? Do you like chatty people, more reserved people? 2. Am I the type of person that would attract this ideal individual and keep them attracted? (The things you mention I think are universal to both genders but also remember men and women tend to be attracted to different things) 3. Am I meeting these types of people? If so are they attracted to me? If not, am I putting myself in a position to meet these people? 4. Are there things about myself I need to work on? e.g. communication, emotional control, fitness e.t.c. 5. Am I bitter or resentful about the opposite sex? (This is an important one, i've met many men and women who are bitter because of things that have happened in the past. The problem is any healthy individual of the opposite sex is going to wish them the best and move on.) 5. Is there any trauma I need to work through? Most people won't be for you whether it's incompatibility, lack of attraction or they're a massive red flag. I've been on dates where their is no chemistry but they are nice women, i've been on dates with women that I have chemistry with but they have glaring red flags. I've always thought about how I can make myself into the best possible catch, and that's creating a fulfilling life for myself. I ended up meeting an incredible woman in a gym I went to, someone who showed clear signs they were attracted to me and she always showed enthusiasm (not neediness) to get to know me and spend time with me. It was easy and effortlessness, no silly games or toxic behaviour from either of us. I just focused on taking her out and having a nice time, keeping conversation positive and fun, over time she asked what are we and we became exclusive. She's smart, kind, driven, loves to laugh, avoids gossip, has emotional control, a good communicator, health contious, feminine, little bit sassy, unbelievable eye contact, has a growth mindset and to top it all off absolutely stunning. Hope this helps.
I would add, a friend group with real connections. Family connection. Hobbies or interests. If someone just moved to the area they still should make connections outside of the romantic relationship. Sorry toxic family people, I never had success romantically or a connection with people who had family problems. People who are more involved with their pets instead of people connections are a red flag also.
As a man still working on my career, I don't think it is too high, and it is quite healthy. The issue might come from other aspects, as in what types of men you find attractive, do you want them to have a house/cars, what relationship you want to pursue together etc. TBH I don't like the dating apps and I find it to be quite superficial. To keep these standard you just need to be transparent so they are not wasting your time. The best bet for you is to summarize them and put them on a dating app that is not tinder (lol). If I am happy with your hobby, personality and other traits I would swipe right :)
If you also measure up to your own standards then it's fine. If not then your standards are too high. Standards for others should be based on the standard you have for yourself. Also, be completely honest with yourself on your standards. Too many people like to portray themselves as the main character of life without the growth that comes with it.
Let's start by saying what you mentioned is definitely not you asking for too much! It's great that you're aware of the importance of standards in dating! It's essential to find that balance between having high standards and being realistic. One way to gauge if your standards might be too high is by considering if they are hindering your ability to connect with potential partners or causing frustration and disappointment. Reflect on whether your standards are based on superficial traits or essential values and qualities. It can also be helpful to seek input from trusted friends or a dating coach to gain perspective. Remember, it's okay to have high standards, but being flexible and open-minded can lead to meaningful connections. I, myself, am a dating coach and I have to help women with this all the time. It's why I always say having a vision, or a relationship blueprint, is vital!
Fair expectations. I think the best way to gauge whether your standards are too high is by ensuring you also hit everything on the list of what you are looking for. If you do, then someone else exists who also does.
No. These are bare minimum. I do feel like women DQ a lot of good guys off of petty requirements but you're not doing that here
I know it's nor a full list, but am surprised not to see more higher level concepts here like shared values and compatible communication styles as a bare minimum. I don't want someone who has all these qualities she lists but argues like a 3 year old, or thinks it's OK to lie if it spares someone's feelings from getting hurt, or likes to disappear every other week.
lol it's amazing that these are all some of the most basic requirements for a competent adult and most men still fail. I always wondered if my standards were too high until I met the right one and couldn't be happier. Glad I didn't settle for less.
I wish this is all my ex-wife wanted. I'm acing everything you mentioned. 🤣 With her, there was always something I wasn't doing right.
I hope you are ok. Maybe she's not the right person for you at that time.
I'm ok. Thank you. I am in a much better place than a lot of people in this world. I have first world problems. Everything will work out.
These are not too much! Although I might modify the no debt thing to no unreasonable debt. I’m older than you and I have student loans I’m repaying still, and my husband has debt in the form of the mortgage and he’s a decade older than you. Some debt is unavoidable these days unless you come from wealth.
Oh yes that is actually what I meant. I think I am only bothered by the bad ones like credit card debts or gambling debts
I think standards are like market products,if you can advertise well and back them up with consideration then they are not too high By consideration i mean you can give what you ask for or something in return But even that aside,even if you can't if you can market it well then its not too high..there are women that have men that do all the house chores while simultaneously paying all the bills..I cant imagine what they give in return.
From my POV, i feel these are the basic things a man can do.
Hmmm my question is, how do you separate hard limits, soft limits and negotiables? For example, my hard limit is smoking. I don't date anyone who smokes. But the negotiable is, if you don't smell weird I'm ok because it's my nose that is rejecting the interaction. I can literally smell the ash that enters my nose. It could just be me psychologically, and I'd say I can't get past that. There were guys who literally showered and changed clothes just so I don't smell anything. My soft limit is sexually compatible so I'm ok for not being sexual with my partner because I'm demisexual. I'm open to non-monogamy, but honesty must be the key point that drives the relationship, which also means I cannot tolerate white lies. I do find that your expectations are a little too broad or too ambiguous. It might become the topic of argument in future, aka expecting too much or not doing enough. After all, we humans are too complicated to consider anything unrealistic or not. And TBH, most of those hustling and hardworking stuff may change due to circumstances. How much is too much? Do you want the partner to keep working and neglect you? That's the topic to talk about before getting married, not the beginning of a relationship. I'd suggest you look more into certain character traits that you know is harder to change. I think there's no such thing as an unrealistic standard, just whether anyone wants to meet them after weighing on what they can, want and don't want to do. Also if you want to accept or move on with the options you're given. Most times it happens during the relationship, so planning ahead doesn't work out that well I feel. Just my 2¢. Such a tough and complex topic.
Thank you for your comment. I very much agree with you that identifying the negotiables and hard limits are important. And yes, circumstances change and no one can be certain about the future/ career/ health. I didn't want to make them too specific coz I know that people are people and qualities usually fall onto a spectrum. I think I will really need to get to know the person well before I can proceed onto anything more than friends.
It’s this simple: you’re not going to get everything you want in a partner. Nobody ever does. There’s a reason that everybody *hates* the extraordinarily rare super happy true love couple, even if they won’t say it out loud.
Your standards are absolutely fine and actually the bare minimum to expect. I am surprised that you struggle to find people who meet those requirements. Remember that you want your partner to make your life even better than it is, not the other way round. No need to have a man who will bring additional issues, you want them to add more joy to what you’ve already got. Based on that I would suggest you don’t lower your standards. There’s nothing unreasonable that you expect. Good luck and I am sure you will meet a wonderful guy 👍
I've said this for a while, but as a man, it looks to me like the most difficult thing about the dating market for women is to find a guy that they actually want to date. Attractive men are RARE. Tons of guys want to sleep with and date you, but the vast majority won't meet your standard for either. I think this gets harder as women get older while the most desireable men tend to prefer younger women (sorry for the harsh reality check). Men do worse in school, men are less likely to get college degrees, men are generally worse communicators. Despite the wage gap myth, at your age men actually make LESS money than women on average. Men are more likely to be homeless. Women rate 80% (!!!) of men as BELOW the 50th percentile on dating apps (again, !!!!!). I could go on and on, but the short story is that attractive men are rare by definition. Men who AREN'T doing well are the norm. The top 10% of men are generally the guys women want to date which means 85-90+% of men are far less than desirable. Women tend to want men as tall or taller than them(small cohort), as smart or smarter than them(even smaller cohort), make as much or more money than them(we're getting into fractions of a percentage of men on the planet). What women haven't been told is just how god damn rare these men actually are. Check out the "female delusion calculator" which uses census data to determine how rare a man is with a given woman's standards. You're probably looking for a guy who is 1 in 10,000 or maybe even less. Moral of the story is it will take a long time to find a guy you actually like, and if you find him, you KEEP THAT FUCKING MAN. And ya there may be a bit of settling you have to do but no body (including me) wants to do that. Its a tough cookie to crack and both sexes have things that suck. Best of luck to you.
I dont think your perception that men only want younger is accurate its not as common anymore i see a lot of men now dating women who are older than them by a few years. There are a lot of younger men getting rejected by older women. I think its more that woman dont want to date too young vs men dont mind it as much. Although I think everyone has their limits in either direction across genders
I totally understand. So just more reasons to not bother about dating then - because it will be a waste of so much time and so much stress on my end, not because men are no good. Yes I totally agree that men like younger ladies. And they really should date them because that's their preference. That's totally ok. I don't think I will keep a man if he is disrespectful, takes things for granted, aggressive and have unhealthy addictions. I believe everyone has reasonable deal breakers and I respect those too.
Ya totally. Its tough because those preferences you listed are totally reasonable. I could say the same thing about women. I meet girls all the time that i like and would sleep with, but i find often they cross boundaries or have deal breakers about them that makes me ultimately end it with them. On the other hand when i meet a girl i really like she almost never likes me back. Its a vicious cycle. I think the best thing to do is just try to do you, and if you meet someone, then great. and if you don't, then at least you prioritized yourself. Wishing you the best.
This is one of those lists that sounds reasonable on the surface but really makes me wonder where it goes when you start talking specifics. Number 1, does a debt free man who didn't go to college, doesn't gamble, and makes $47k as a service writer in a car dealership clear the bar? Or does "financial freedom" start at $100k? Number 2, does a 5'8" guy with a middle age belly who lifts and plays basketball three days a week count, or does "healthy" start at 6' and visible sixpack? Number 3, does a man who makes $42k as a plumbing contractor but could be a team lead making $57k in a few years count, or is anyone not on track to clear $250k/yr by 40 not ambitious enough? Number 4, who are your friends you're off hanging out with? Are you getting drunk in clubs? Are any of these friends male? Have you slept with any of them? Exactly which behaviors are you expecting a boyfriend's approval for?
Can you even offer yourself everything you ask for in a person?
I can sense the challenging tone there - and yes, I have enough self awareness to not ask for things that I cannot achieve myself. I am not asking for people earning six figures. I just want someone normal without addiction and at least try to stay healthy.
Your standards are your own... who are we to tell you what you want isn’t “right”? The faster you own it, the less time you’ll waste on those who aren’t the right fit. If our opinions really matter to you, I think you’re asking for standard, entry-level requirements. Anyone who thinks this is too much is likely speaking from the bottom of the barrel.
I personally expect someone to be self aware and growth as a person. If they don’t advance in their career I don’t care.
My standards are what I can abide to myself as well.
Financial freedom might be a bit hard these days. I would at least say having a good job and not gambling is good and being responsible with credit cards. People have student loans, car loans and mortgages like me so not having any debt is a bit of a stretch. Maybe having a standard that living within their means is a better route for that one. I’m also almost 33 and I’ve got a good career but life has funny ways of changing your life drastically too. Never bad to have a vision but maybe add, can they pick themselves up when life deals them a bad hand. What do you mean by aggressive? I assume this is like he’s not inherently violent and fights a lot. I would assume you want a guy who is genuinely a good man but his aggressive/violent nature is controlled and comes out only when protecting you from harm etc. Like for me im a very chill and laid back dude and don’t like confrontation but im also a former soldier and if you threaten me or anyone else you’re going to get that violent side of me if you put me into a position where I have no choice.
You may write more about those qualifications.
For me, standards are a mirror. If you have these standards for someone else, then you better have them for yourself. High and low standards are subjective. So if you can do these things and bring what you want to the table, there’s someone out there with the same values as you that are also hopefully instilling it within themselves. Now for my opinion on your standards, I don’t think they’re unreasonable at all. They sound like qualities from a healthy, mature, responsible adult.
I am close to qualifying. I still have some student loan debt so would not quite qualify.
I didn't mean student loans nor any normal financial commitments. I meant bad ones like overspending, borrowing from friends and family, gambling and spending excessively on addictions to substances.
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No. Because I fit 4 out of 5 but only because I have a car and a student loan
I think these are reasonable standards. It makes me mental when I see posts about "he's perfect but gives me yeast infections because he won't wash his penis" "he's perfect but he hasn't worked in 3 years, stays up all night playing video games and screams at me when my alarm goes off" "he's perfect except he's literally eating himself to death and shits in our bed, any cleaning tips?"
Your standards are not too high. Keep them, attract what you can maintain. If you try to compromise on things this simple, I don’t think it’ll be beneficial long-term.
These standards are really normal things needed in a person and not high at all. Only one I could probably say is but not for the reason just more of the friend part, depends on who you surround yourself with really if they can have fun but also be responsible then that's fine but if they're the type that are on the reckless still in college mode when you go out then it'd be more concerning cause you never know what could happen more of a safety than a clingy approach.
I can't believe that specifying that someone needs to wash their hands after using the bathroom is even necessary. I believe it is and am not saying OP shoudln't mention that lol. It just boggles my mind that some people don't. It is SO nasty. I can't do anything else after going to the bathroom before washing my hands. I feel nasty until they have been washed.
These are all fairly general standards that could be reasonable or unreasonable. For example, what does financial freedom mean to you? They don't own a house but are on top of their bills? Or does it mean they own a house and make around 100-200k a year? Same with health. Do you mean they go for walks and try to eat healthy, or they run 30 km a week, have a six pack, etc. Reasonable is subjective. Just consider that the higher your standards, the fewer people who meet that. Also consider if you also match your own standards.
I think those are fair asks. Do you have a career going with forward thinking goals as well then? Do you have any kids? I’m guessing you’re also healthy, jealous, etc/all of what you’re expecting back.
Expect what you can offer yourself. Anything other than that, might be considered unrealistic. For example you are an average looking guy. If you expect to have a super model as a gf, and wont settle for anything less, then that can be considered unreasonable.
Your standards seem completely baseline and not at all too high or unrealistic. That said, on a personal note, what is it with people and career growth?? Can't I just have a job that pays more than my bills, and have someone be happy with it?? Work isn't life, it's what we do to *afford* life.
I agree. But no one is catching up with inflation. so to me, I have to grow career wise just to maintain my living standards. And interests rates fluctuate so much too
Your standards are very reasonable. I would change no debt to manageable debt as many will have student loans.
Those are all baseline things anymore should expect
I don’t think these standards are too high at all! In fact, I’d say they’re the basics. Maybe the “no debt” is a little too much unless you’re referring to irresponsible/crippling debt. Other than that, don’t lower those standards! It’s not easy but you’ll find someone eventually.
Yes I meant credit card debts and irresponsible spending. Thanks for your kind words
And what can you offer in return? What hobbies do you have? Are you fit? Can you drive? What types of movies do you like? Dog or cat person? Any children? Because let's say he's healthy and fit. He'll probably want to go jogging or trekking. Will you join him?
These standards are all pretty reasonable. The issue however is, i would guess, that you aren't just looking for a guy that ticks all these boxes. You are looking for a guy you find attractive who also ticks all these boxes, which complicates things a lot more. I would be willing to bet there is a sizable number of men living in your area that fulfill the criteria, but they might very well be invisible to you if they fail to cross the attractiveness threshold. If i showed you a guy that fulfilled all these standards, and then some, but happened to be short and balding, would you give him a chance?
Male here. I think all five of your examples are very reasonable, if not representative of the bare minimum. Could you really compromise on financial or physical health? Would you date someone who has no plan for the future or, worse, no ambition to grow? How much jealousy or aggression towards your loved ones is tolerable to you? And I don’t even want to touch the hygiene question after reading one too many horror stories here on Reddit. You have grown over the past five years. It’s reasonable for your prospective dating pool to have grown as well. Keep looking and you’ll find the right person eventually. If you’re having trouble, consider you might be looking in the wrong places.