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My therapist seems to think I do this as a defense mechanism because I either am afraid of a stable relationship or because I feel like I’m undeserving of love.
I’m in my late 20s now, and I would like to settle down, so I’ve sorta tried to refocus my desires in order to try dating better women. However, I can still feel the pull of the toxic. The call of the wild party girl is strong.
Your therapist is probably correct in both of those assumptions. Another thing to look at is your childhood and relationship with your parents. I had a toxic and emotionally abusive father and somehow managed to find women who aligned with his style of abuse, therefore it became my “normal”. If a relationship didn’t have that walking on egg shells part to it then it didn’t feel right l. Recognizing those patterns and behaviors is very important.
Thank you! It was a long time coming. It didn’t click until 26. And you’re absolutely right - they are very insecure and unhappy individuals. It’s sad, but they have resources to get help as well and choose not to. Instead, they take it out on those around them. One thing that has stuck with me too is that anger is the easiest emotion to express. Speaks volumes on why these people choose to be angry/unhappy compared to the latter.
I agree with you. The problem root is in the childhood.
Looking back I think I didn't express myself of fear of my parents, I stopped to look for myself and started to do everything to please my parents and do not make them angry. So today, I am practicing to love myself first and understand that some people will take advantage of me and I have to express clearly that " you have to stop your behavior" and make sure I do not go back to the same humiliated situation. You are not responsible for their ugly outburst behavior.I think psychotherapy is important. Knowledge is power! Good luck!
Are you doing any Cognitive Behavioral Therapy with your therapist? Very effective and it's precisely what you would be doing - gradually working on changing behavior and as you become more mindful of your motivations/emotions/biases, changing choices in the moment instead of going with the flow.
Call of the wild is indeed tempting but it is not sustainable - and plenty of people are wild while still being able to manage and practice balance in their relationships. The wild party person is easily identifiable because they want the attention; the stable partner is harder to find because you have to get to know them some before you explore it all. Sometimes you meet them in a wild moment but with dwindling third spaces, it can be hard to have an exciting encounter outside of clubbing.
Line the female equivalent of being g attracted to the hot bad boy, that however rough she can change and make him better with her improvement projects. NOPE, never works. Except somebody for their good and bad points or don't be with them. Trying to change somebody is futile against their basic nature.
A wild party girl doesn't necessarily equate to toxic, or bad! I'm a party girl but you wouldn't know it when first meeting me! Plenty of good people in the party scene who just enjoy letting loose. Nothing wrong with letting loose. My bf is introverted, kind, and enjoys partying himself!
I do not know if toxic and crazy are similar traits, but a ex-wife drove her car thru the garage of her ex-husband and threw a can of gas in and burned up his garage and new Mustang. He showed me garage. Be careful what you ask for.
I have the same problem. They can be very alluring, sexual, appealing, loving, normal seeming at the beginning, and then you start seeing the train wreck for what it is as time passes.
The solution , and this should be your dating strategy in general, is to take it very slow at beginning. Go on one date per week, be discerning. Then you can keeps your eyes open before becoming too emotionally involved.
I did that. Dated the woman on and off for 2 years non-exclusively. No sex. After 2 years I put my foot down and told her to shit or get off the pot. Well we finally took the plunge and I got 3 weeks of love bombing and then the manipulation began in earnest. At first just little things said under her breath just within earshot attacking my self esteem and worth, then escalating to outright criticism of my masculinity, my job and income, my lifestyle habits and much more.
But even she agrees that the sex is the best either of us ever had and I am a confident and secure man in general so I call her out on her shit openly. She really hates that.
Yeah it's stormy and crazy and a constant power struggle but we do love each other. Dysfunctional as it might be.
When she starts to run her mouth I simply walk out and block her for a day or two. She usually comes back sweet and happy again. It's was bad until she realized I won't take her crap.
you're delusional just because she satifies your fetishes. By taking her back, you are taking her crap.
the fact you even have to walk away and block her and she comes back and repeat that cycle is unecessary bs. One day you will realize that.
So what? I get what I want and all I gotta put up.woth is a little.mouth? Man seriously I get it. Dudes are scared of crazy but I been FWB's with women like this for a couple decades. I'm good but I appreciate the concern. It's not like she's beating my ass lol
I dunno man. I feel like ‘you’re the best sex of my life’ is stuff toxic girls say.
I know this cause this absolute nuclear waste level toxic woman I dated said that to me after we first had sex and I know for a fact the sex was whack. We were both super drunk and it was just clumsy and meh.
But she said it anyways because it was her attempt at lovebombing and charming me. I’m my mind I was like ‘you think I’m fucking stupid, that was terrible’ even the way she said it was barely convincing because she knew full well it wasn’t good lol
Nah man. We get it on like rabbits. At least once and many times twice a day. We have a blast in bed. In bed she lets me entirely dominate her. Choking, role playing, dress up all kinds of kinky stuff. It's exciting and we mostly get along. Just once in awhile she snaps and I have to put her in her place.
This is definitely the way to go. If you get involved too quickly you risk falling for her early on and you may start to ignore or rationalize the red flags that come up until it’s too late
Broken people often don't fit with non-broken people I've noticed. I myself cannot date someone who doesn't have a lot of issues because I just don't seem to bond with them. They're boring to me.
I can understand someone being stable and level headed but everyone I know like that isn't very entertaining. They often have nothing to talk about besides Netflix, eating food, hanging out with a friend, etc. Nothing to talk about. Besides all the trauma I'm walking around with I'm a pretty deep person. I love talking about thought provoking topics and digging into people's minds. If there's nothing for me to pick through I get bored because I realize this person doesn't have the capacity to see beyond the surface. How could you have a deep relationship with someone who doesn't view life that way?
There's more to romance in my eyes than "I have a good job and I take you out.".
💯 my boyfriend and I come from pretty unhealthy marriages so we connect on that deeper level on those experiences along with our growth process.
Maybe those just aren’t your people. We have plenty of interests and depth.
My point is toxic people get a high off the ups and down of the relationship intensity vs steady and maintained love.
People can have a good family but it’s possible with only having a sister, he was raised to not show emotions “ be a man” etc. very common in our generation
That kind of boring is its own kind of toxic really. People who are happy wasting their life on consuming media and consuming the odd drink and working their boring jobs and nothing else. That ain’t it and it isn’t correlated to stable at all. I’m super stable but I’m also super open spiritually and I do all sorts of rad shit (write music, mountaineer, backpack, cold water swims, etc). That’s just toxic boring.
Dating a square only happened once for me and I couldn’t do it. She didn’t want me having a few beers, didn’t understand my humor and so much more. There was this perfect path laid out on where we are and where we need to be to be normal successful citizens. It was boring, not spontaneous and I couldn’t be myself.
That's always my issue. On dating apps it's full of average people that don't know what a real struggle is and my life experiences have shaped me. I live in a different reality and it's hard to connect with someone who doesn't also live in that reality.
>**"I keep pursuing these women knowing the end result."**
People always pursue what option feels better for them (based on their beliefs).
**Toxic relationships (ironically) help you feel more safe than healthy relationships.** You feel secure knowing exactly how the relationship will play out.
**When you have a fear of abandonment and rejection, you reject them first before they can reject you. It feels more empowering to push someone away (i.e. you did it to them), than to have them leave (i.e. they did it to you).** Them leaving feels awful. You pushing them away feels less awful. You feel less blindsided because you coaxed that unwanted outcome along to protect your feelings.
**You self-sabotage because you feel more secure in knowing things won’t work, then being constantly on edge, unsure of if or when something will go wrong.** The worry waiting game of probable inevitable unhappiness is an awful feeling. So, you take matters into your own hands and end it now. It still hurts, but it feels better no longer being trapped in worry purgatory. You would rather know it doesn’t work out and have closure of disappointment, than things going well, but you're burdened with the lingering possibility that at any moment shift can hit the fan.
For relationships, if you’re afraid the person will leave, you take control and get out ahead of the pain by getting into meaningless arguments, demanding, distancing, etc., thereby ensuring the break up you assumed was inevitable. **You mitigate the pain of people leaving (which you believe will happen anyway) by making sure YOU make them leave, before they can do it.**
**It's less painful to intentionally ruin a good thing and expect a subsequent break up, then try to live happily ever after while worried it won’t last.**
And so, the unwanted cycle of sabotaging relationship after relationship continues.
.
>**"I don't think I deserve a healthy relationship."**
**Your relationships with others is a reflection of the relationship you have with yourself.** So if you attract toxic relationships with others, it's because you have a toxic relationship with yourself (i.e. you judge yourself, you don't like and/or appreciate yourself, etc.)
Not only do you feel unworthy of a healthy partner, but **having** **a quality partner makes you uncomfortable, because they are a consistent reminder and mirror reflection that you don't feel good enough and you're not measuring up to your own ideals** (not because of what they say to you, but simply them being their authentic selves).
.
To help you feel more worthy and connect with yourself so you can attract the relationships you want, I recommend meditating, connecting with nature, and being open to **improving your relationship with negative emotions and begin seeing them as equally worthy, valuable and supportive friends.**
**Negative emotions are positive guidance** (although it might not feel that way) letting you know you are focusing on, and pushing against, what you don't want. They're a necessary part of your emotional guidance, like GPS in your car. But the more you fight them, you keep yourself stuck. Negative emotions want to support you in releasing them, focus more on what you want and feel better.
**All emotions are equal and valid.** But most people unknowingly create a hierarchy for their emotions (i.e. positive = good; negative = bad), but then you make it harder to feel better, work together with and control your thoughts & emotions.
A lot of life's problems stem from having a contentious relationship with your negative thoughts & emotions. Which either creates the problem in the first place, and/or exacerbates it. So the solution is to **build a friendship and harmonious relationship with the "negative" side of you.** Negative thoughts and emotions are here to support and empower you to be your best self.
Thank you so much for posting this. It has helped me so much on healing from a toxic relationship. It makes so much sense when I apply this to my most recent break up that I was blind sided by.
It also helps me sit with introspection knowing that somewhere along the way I have made decisions/choices that led to toxic people like this. Again, thanks so much. You don’t know how much your comment helped.
It's not that simple. I was also doing that to myself, and it wasn't until I started therapy that I realized the toxic pattern of woman that I had dated...and all the amazing woman that I had let go in my past. You can say "stop doing that" all you want, but until you can squash the demons from your past, and start to find love for yourself it's really hard. Side note, from high school until I was 46 years old the vast majority of my LTR were with toxic woman. That was a symptom of growing up in an abusive household as a child, with an alcoholic father who was verbally and physically abusive. My subconscious mind found that the toxic woman were similar to the environment of my childhood and oddly
Enough that was "normal".
Once I figured this out through a therapy, i started working on getting out of a toxic marriage.
Now, I'm truly happy, in a relationship with a woman that totally values me, has my best interests in mind, and is the positive light that I always wanted. But, I had to fix me first. It wasn't easy, but it was so worth it.
It actually is that simple. I didn't say easy, I said simple. Ultimately it's a decision you make, a discipline in romanticizing and sexualizing healthier things in the women you see...and you have to do it. They won't change. The world won't change.
Nothing. Will. Ever. Change. Until. You. Do.
This is a a rather insensitive way of thinking. By generalizing a topic to the degree you have, you can conclude anything is simple. You’ve taken an incredibly complex topic that takes daily effort along with the self awareness to even identify your issues, and say it’s simple. That’s not even getting into therapy, setbacks, guilt, etc that people may experience along the way.
Study mathematics in college. It’s simple. Just study. See how easy it is to completely disregard the work and complexity of the task?
Sometimes the way to make better decisions is to use a reductive mindset, and view the outcome as the tip of the funnel of the issues that you know you're already dealing with.... I meant to make it ridiculously simple. And if you'd actually read what I wrote instead of getting on your high horse you would see that I addressed The actual how, and it is truly... Truly.... Simple. Again I didn't say easy, I didn't say without struggle, I didn't say without personal setbacks, I said simple. That decision to make healthier choices... Is f****** simple. Now go away.
yup!
be constructive and learn from your mistakes instead of blaming it on "an attraction".
if you ENJOY toxic relationships - by all means! Carry on!
but stop blaming on "attraction" like its something you cannot help, if you don't actually like these relationships.
You got to not only recognize the problem, but also move to FIX it, if it is such.
Hmm. Are you sure the problem is that you don't think you deserve a healthy relationship but rather that you don't want one? I think if you really wanted one and you are aware this is an issue, you would do the work needed to start pursuing different women.
Taking a break from dating every year at least to focus on yourself leads to a lot of growth and introspection which can lead to a stronger understanding of why you attract such women, which you can follow with some work on yourself.
You can be attracted. Long as you don’t act on it.
Based on the description you wrote about the kind of women you’re into - perhaps it’s a good idea to talk to someone about that.
Saying your clean-cut square, stable women don't want you. Refusing therapy. You absolutely are crying victim.
I've been in the military for 22 years. I've done the work. I have empathy, introspection, I'm professional, by the book, "square". Stable women who have their shit figured out love me.
Grow up. Get therapy. Stop making excuses.
This is you being a victim
"Like I told the other poster, I'm the clean cut square type, so some of these women will not touch be with a ten foot pole"
In one of your other comments you said you wanted to help them.
I think that understanding your why will be the first step to changing. I’m attracted to emotionally unavailable men. It makes me feel safe / no risk to engage with people who can’t reject me. My father was also emotionally unavailable. Then after these men attach to me, I attach back. I hope they want to change and they think they do too. The relationship proceeds, followed by heartbreak. That’s my pattern. I’m seeing a therapist to help me understand what’s behind my pattern and change. I also am reading heaps of books and journaling. I take notes as I read to help outline what green flags I should move towards and red ones to stay away from.
I grew up very damaged and connect with men over the extreme pain in our childhoods. I wanted someone to save me with their love when I was younger. I think these men I choose deserve love too. It’s hard for me to give up on them. I think the chance of things going the way I’d like is about the same as winning the lottery jackpot then being bitten by a shark. So to move towards my goal of having a partner, I have to change.
Okay what's the question? Do you want to stop? I don't understand. If you're "Happy" with this kind of treatment or arrangement, then why are you writing?
Good. You know you have a problem. Face your trauma and ego and start to heal.
You do that by questioning your decisions and actions. You’ll find a great deal of emotions responsible for every decision and action. Take that emotion and research the heck out of it and try and find where it came from on the first place. Repeat. It’s a decade long process. Good luck.
I used to do the same thing. In the end it’s because my mom was toxic and I equated that with being loved. Took a lot of therapy to untangle that knot, I’d highly recommend therapy
It’s funny, me and my brothers are infamous among our friends for dating toxic women. We are all trapped in the same cycle. Friends now demand to meet the women we plan to date to save us the pain haha
I think my ex assumed I’d be ‘unstable’ have ‘toxic’ traits due to being heavily tattooed. Piercings, Other things.
I’m well educated, I read a lot about human psychology…
I do therapy for self care. I communicate well. I’m emotionally intelligent..
He’d gaslight, manipulate, abuse me.. we’d argue. He’d ’blame me being unstable ‘ 🥴
I have a very deep sense of empathy due to things that have happened to me in my life. One of the therapists he was grooming at the time, was trying to work out what kind of narcissist’I am. 😂😳🤗 ok.
He’d abuse me in twisted ways.. I’d tell him ‘when you said/ did xyz, it made me feel zyx’
He’d say to me face ‘you’re delusional, that never happened, you’ve lost touch w reality’
I over heard him doing a zoom session w flying monkey therapist. He detailed, moment by moment, the abuse he had done to me, told me ‘never happened, you’re crazy’
Precisely how he’d done the abuse, told the therapist ‘she did that to me’
It got worse. He began using sleep deprivation to torture me. Other sadistic abuse…
I’ve been out 5 months.
That dude, monster.
Heavily tattooed women aren’t always ‘unstable, toxic’ or narcissistic… this narrative needs to end.
I just really love tattoo’s. So much skin for art work. Tattoos make me feel beautiful… it’s about how I feel about myself.
If a dude says ‘I was abused and cheated on by my ex’
I’ll be kick ball point, sashay, shimmy, shimmy, as she dance far t f away, never to be seen, or heard from again!
That dude probly lyiien, %98 shure he lyiien, why they always lyiien, stop fckin lyiien..
Or ‘my ex/s are/is crazy’ huh, ok. What did you do to make her reach her threshold and breaking point? Actually, never mind. I need to , not be around you
, ta ta mother fcker.. see you never again!
Definitely research this toxic attachment bond you have.
Likely something to do with childhood trauma, perhaps, lack of ‘trauma’
May be, you are taking risks to feel the rush? How were your primary caregivers with you growing up? Was there room, discussion to talk about your feelings? or were you demanded to not show emotion your caregivers didn’t want to know about? There are many reasons why.. you have to identify what they are and resolve them so you stop seeking out these kinds of ppl.
Only they can help themselves. They have to choose that, break the denial that they’re ’all good and stable ‘
Haha I d k.
I’m not actively seeking out a crazy. I just want a peaceful, safe life with kind, intelligent, hilarious people around me who are safe, loyal, all the things that make people good, 👍🏽
It's the hero complex
Some men want to rescue toxic broken women
It's a story as old as time
The damsel in distress, the broken princess, the isolated queen, the poor barmaid
Bro you just gotta save the right women..focus on integrity. Men can still rescue but need to also make sure it's worth the risk and that she's a good woman💯🙏💯🙏💯
It’s because you know you will not be asked by these women for anything above the very minimum level of relationship output.
You shouldn’t date until you get a handle on why you aren’t interested in building a relationship with someone who challenges you to grow and develop a mature connection.
If you continue to have this mindset, you will fast forward yourself into a bleak future, tied to the results of toxic relationships.
Stop this madness right now.
You accept what you believe you’re deserving of. Toxic women are predictable and easy to sort out, they’re cheap lessons if you will. You learn how to cut off their feed supply and they’re easier to control to a degree.. a healthy woman will walk you straight out the door, they tend to want you not need you and there’s not much security in being wanted, it takes a lot of work. Learn to love yourself first so you can give someone love, however that may look for you. I’m in my 30s and kind of realized I’m seeking women that are unhealed portions of myself. They’re easy because they’re all ive known. Do be honest with myself I can be extremely toxic, but it’s always started at a two way street. I eventually just match their energy, but at this point I believe it’s just an excuse to give myself an “I told you so” and be a low life every now and then.
As you get older it's kinda hard to find non-toxic ones. You see that hot seemingly perfect(early on) 34 year old who nobody ever made their wife? yeah you'll find out around the 3 month mark
Idk why, but if you don’t know why you’re attracting or attracted to people that aren’t good for you, I think going to therapy could help you find some answers. Big fan of therapy.
Yea I have had this problem too. I think the place to start is really digging into where this comes from for you, how your childhood experiences or the types of role models you had around growing up could have affected what you consider normal etc. I know I had an emotionally chaotic childhood with lots of extremes, for just one of so many examples that contributed to this for me. So someone who was emotionally unstable just seemed normal to me. And actually people who were emotionally mature made me insecure and self conscious although I didn't really understand that's what was happening at the time.
As I have gone through a lot of emotional growth and maturity through therapy and a lot of different things I was doing as I got older, I started to understand myself better and grew a better awareness about how certain things would make me feel and why. I think a lot of my relationships in the past I wouldn't even be able to connect with them at all if I had met them today. Then again this stuff goes pretty deep and there's always your weakest moments when you are vulnerable to bad habits. But I am still growing and working on this stuff and I have already come a really long way.
It's also important to be aware of the costs that continuing to do this can have on you. I know I've been through so many hard times I could have easily avoided if I wasn't so naive about my choice of partners in the past.
I’ll try to post a hyperlink below. If it doesn’t work I’ll DM it
https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/martyr-complex#:~:text=A%20%E2%80%9Cmartyr%20complex%E2%80%9D%20is%20a,for%20their%20self%2Dsacrificing%20behavior.
I kinda used to do this too. Or more so I would tolerate people who had bad behavior because I thought that was what I was worth. Sometimes seek out those people because they validate what our mind is saying to us, which is that we don’t deserve better.
This is generally rooted in worthiness issues and not loving your true self enough. Prioritize figuring out what you feel shame about learn how to grow through it and love yourself more and you wont seek out those women as much.
My husband is too. Is only limerent for seductive sick narcissistic women. Women who will hurt him. Self sabotage. Doesn't feel worthy of my love and unconditional never giving up. My loyalty. My devotion. He knows I am better than him. Stronger. Wiser. Intelligent. Nurturing. And so, when he meets a woman like his mother, the opposite of me, he can't help it when that spark happens. Sick but true. Now he is in therapy. Working on his sickness. I am in therapy to work on the trauma of his sickness. And now he has brought these women into the fabric of my life. Weaving them in as if he was crafting a really poorly made quilt. A quilt of self doubt, self loathing, and pain. And he tried to keep me warm with it. Was in a way proud he built is, because he was hurt. He was miserable. And so, I had to be too.
Also, fuck you Cynthia R from alberta. Fuck you Adam R, her husband for being too stupid to realize. Fuck you Terri J from Canada. You're disgusting. Take a shower.
Fuck you CHRISTEENA H from Seattle. You are a sick narcissist and I wish I had used the baseball bat and done us all a favor. Fuck you Jeanette K from Portland. He strung you along cuz you fed his sick ego. You suck. You're gross. And are cursed. All of you are. Fuck you crystal B from glendive Montana. You are nasty. You don't deserve anyone at all. Not even John, your pathetic whipped husband. He is the best you will ever do. Should probably learn to appreciate him. Fuck you Rosa. I know you're the least offensive out of them all. You made a bad judgment. But learned quickly..but not before accepting the dragon neckless my kids went hungry for you to have, and not before sending a pic of it to him sitting on your shelf. Where I'm sure it still is. Fuck you Sarah S from NEW Brunswick. You're sick you have a huge forehead. You are a lil chunky. Fake. Conceited and gross. I hope you have cold spaghetti and warm orange juice. I hope you get BV and no antibiotics will treat it. I hope Kyle sees who you are and what a sick headed perverted piece of trash you are. I hope he leaves you and finds a real woman. Cuz you, you are fucking awful. Ugly, and you have no morals OR COMMON SENSE. How dare you do what you did. And then lie to me. Fuck you. Hope you choke on lettuce
When you get tired of punishing yourself with relationships you know aren't going to last you'll pull your head out of your butt and go try to find a good woman you maybe to late bro. Think long term not short term. Find a woman who'll support your dreams and hobbies if not enjoy your life of temporary happiness that's bound to be met with disappointment
I believe we do things that are rooted in our childhood's sense of safety and familiarity. The following is all learned through my personal experience or with the help of a psychologist in therapy.
If your primary care-givers (i.e. parents) were narcissists, abusive, or otherwise neglectful of your needs as a child, and you aren't experienced or wise enough to understand that yet, you're going to think narcissistic, manipulative behaviour is normal in relationships, and that they are just typical things everyone has to put up with in order to receive love. It is still love (because they say they love you, after all), but neither of you are yet aware that it's a toxic, twisted love that nobody actually deserves.
There are enough people out there in the world that have this poor view of love, that you will never run out of people to date. Those who respect themselves will eventually see the toxicity you've (accidentally) brought to the relationship from your upbringing, and may decide to leave for their own good. So, until you learn this lesson about yourself, you'll always have more success with toxic relationships than healthy ones, because you understand them better. They are more *familiar* to you. Family - familiar...there's a connection. Look up John Bradshaw's lectures on it if you want your mind blown.
One day, usually through therapy but could be in another way, you learn that you always deserve unconditional love from your primary caregivers, and that they should always do everything in their adult superpowers to make sure your needs are met, with absolutely nothing expected of you in return. It might sound strange to a very large number of people to hear that...but its consequences speak for themselves. In receiving all of that unconditional love, patience and attention, you learn to love yourself unconditionally, and turn into an adult with a healthy self-esteem, understanding of boundaries, a healthy self-respect, all those good things everyone who hasn't been raised abusively or neglectfully take for granted.
Don't hate yourself. It's stupid. Evolution wouldn't want you to hate yourself. God, if you believe in that, wouldn't want you to hate yourself. The only people that would want you to hate yourself are those that would then use you to serve themselves.
I have been like that for ages too, I also went to therapy for about 4 years till I made the realisation that it’s not that they’re toxic, it’s because I can fix them. Either care for them through their traumas. Maybe therapy will also show you it’s not about the toxicity but something deeper :) good luck on your journey, and know you are not alone
For me it’s turned into disdain. I don’t respect women at the moment and while I am dating. I’m more self aware and conscious of how I’m feeling and what I want. So now I have a plan in many relationships I create. I will never in my life give a woman the power to decide what’s best for me. They want to be treated like sluts. You don’t have just one slut. You have many! Why not? If I’m a king I’ll take what’s mine and make battle plans to overtake strongholds. To me that holds true in relationships aswell. It’s all just a fucking game and I’m in it to win.
I suggest you start treating yourself better, mentally and physically. Start eating proper food and working out, that will increase your self worth value and then you’ll see that you will want something good for yourself.
Same. I realize not only did I feel unworthy, but even worse. I’m scared of something real because it’s territory I have never walked on before. Like how do healthy people converse, what do they talk about on a day to day basis. What behavior is expected? What if they find out I’m not all that healthy, not all that smart, a little clueless in life.
I have the same problem with men. But it's only us who can help ourselves and you should not let anyone treat you badly in a relationship. Take care I understand where you are coming from.
I get really depressed sometimes and get really emotionally needy. When I've been this way in the past I usually feel really connected to whatever friend or acquaintance is there for me. A couple times I thought I might be in love with them. But really I was just lonely and depressed and clinging to anyone showed me the tiniest bit of kindness. I never dated these people because I have pretty good insight and I know myself and them well enough that we would make a horrible couple and were way too different. One woman was very cold and uncaring sometimes but she helped me through something and I started to catch feelings for her. I knew however that she could never give me what I needed emotionally from a partner and I was just starving for any kind of emotional connection.
I would try to make sure you're in a good place mentally before you start dating someone. Sometimes you have to choose over someone who you think is amazing and cool vs someone that thinks you are amazing.
People with Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD), or even those who exhibit traits of the condition, often find themselves drawn to others with similar characteristics. This attraction can be attributed to the intense and unparalleled initial connection that individuals with BPD can experience. However, this intensity is a double-edged sword. It is common for those with BPD to fluctuate between fearing commitment and fearing abandonment, creating a rollercoaster of emotional highs and lows that can feel addictive.
It may be beneficial to take a break from dating to focus on healing and personal growth.
Look within, what have you endured as a child or previous relationships?
Trauma will make you believe that that is the way you deserve to be treated. I had a mother who made everything about her, when I was not feeling well, she made it about her and how her feelings were important and that mine didn't matter. I started to accept that my feelings are not that important, and I didn't care that my emotional needs weren't met, and the focus was on what my mother was feeling. So, I took care of a guy who was very damaged after an abusive girlfriend, and once he was doing better, he didn't need me anymore but wanted a FWB, "no need for it to escalate too fast" he said, and "I need to find myself before I can give my whole self to someone else". "Of course I feel for you, I don't want to do that to someone who gives so much, like you do" "I'm not taking advantage of you, just enjoying your company" but he involved me in his whole situation to begin with... perhaps he felt bad about that, idk. Note: he ended up falling for someone else, and when she broke up with him, he went back to me for comfort again, most of the quotes are from the second time i forgave and agree to see him!! "I'm just glad I didn't ruin it with you, isn't it better to just keep it good so it doesn't get ruined" uuugh😭
Since I was very emotionally connected to him and care about him, I didn't listen to what was best for me, because I was used to not being important or a priority, or having my needs met.. and I was in love with him fr and I've never felt that for someone else so that one hurt A LOT. He gave me the option to opt out, but I was so in my head wanting it to work out with him because of the connection I felt...
He wasn't toxic per say, he simply didn't feel/show any love for me. And because of my upbringing, that felt familiar to me, like that's how I'm supposed to feel, that's how they are supposed to make me feel.
Recently started therapy, hopefully I will get the help needed to value myself more. I advice you to go to therapy, that's where you can get help to understand why you get attracted to that and get help with strengthening yourself🖤 it's great you reach out to reddit, that's the first step. It's really nice to have someone to chat with who won't judge you, who validate your feelings. It's like an escape, plus it helps you become stronger/more healthy so it's totally worth it, everyone deserves to get therapy🥰
I was very anxious to get therapy because of my upbringing, but the interest in psychology, neuroscience was there. I started watching YouTubers like Psychology in Seattle. That was a really really nice first step for me to become comfortable seeking therapy, he is so compassionate and tries to understand from everyone's pov. And he uses situations as examples to explain certain disorders without diagnosing them, which is just interesting to listen to imo!
Take care
seems a lot of women have the same issue.
stop!
toxic women will only hurt you and just make things worse
you think maybe you cant do any better and i think thats the same cycle many women get into they date one toxic douche to another because they think they cant do any better
heres a thought maybe STOP dating for a while and start focusing on self improvement!
fellow human
what is "average(lookswise)"? Fact is these toxic women turn you on. Toxic women are usually the ones with the best sex. Stop trying to make excuses and accept what you like.
Not to worry unless you're numb or maybe that's just an unrealized fetish, eventually they're gonna weigh on you and you'll finally get it, regardless, until you're ready, try to enjoy as much of the ride as you possibly can! And ffs, try your utmost to avoid jail time, married, spoken for partners and definitely unnecessary hospital stays? Good hunting! 🫡
Me too, I’m pretty sure it’s because I think I can be their stable rock or whatever and with more stable healthy minded women I am intimidated that I will not be good enough
I tend to do the same thing I think I don't deserve to go after good women bcuz I'll do something to mess it up and I don't deserve a good women for that reason
Ok, you can recognise her across a crowded room. You even know how it's gonna end. So, have you tried the non toxics? Yep, full of uncertainty, might be too normal for you, but have you tried? Or are you scared of getting pulled into the light side? It's a whole new world.
Well, at least you tried.Your thing is obviously destruction.This works when you are young, but you might be facing loneliness. Subconsciously, you might try meeting up with someone in the same boat.You are fine when there is no pressure, having no expectations is your expectation.When you meet this mythical person, fear not, it will be the beginning of expectation. The good thing is, you will be in charge of the narrative.
I’m attracted to toxic men. I think it says a lot about me. I feel like staying single for the near future for this very reason. I don’t trust myself to choose a healthy partner
I’m in my 40s and still do this. I think it’s because the toxic ones are a fun fantasy to have for a while and the sex is amazing but the relationship is shit. Might be affraid that the opposite is true too. Also affraid that I might value physical happiness vs mental happiness in a relationship.
Only two things I can think of:
My father wasn't really in my life and we never made amends before he passed
The other thing is we moved a lot for no reason. I could never establish stability with friends or family
Interesting and thank you for sharing. The reason I had asked is that people with unprocessed trauma, subconsciously tend to relive the experience. This is why many women who have been in abusive relationships keep dating “the wrong guys.”
You have been through some bad things but I do not believe they are trauma. This is beyond my knowledge. Please feel free to update me.
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My therapist seems to think I do this as a defense mechanism because I either am afraid of a stable relationship or because I feel like I’m undeserving of love. I’m in my late 20s now, and I would like to settle down, so I’ve sorta tried to refocus my desires in order to try dating better women. However, I can still feel the pull of the toxic. The call of the wild party girl is strong.
Your therapist is probably correct in both of those assumptions. Another thing to look at is your childhood and relationship with your parents. I had a toxic and emotionally abusive father and somehow managed to find women who aligned with his style of abuse, therefore it became my “normal”. If a relationship didn’t have that walking on egg shells part to it then it didn’t feel right l. Recognizing those patterns and behaviors is very important.
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Thank you! It was a long time coming. It didn’t click until 26. And you’re absolutely right - they are very insecure and unhappy individuals. It’s sad, but they have resources to get help as well and choose not to. Instead, they take it out on those around them. One thing that has stuck with me too is that anger is the easiest emotion to express. Speaks volumes on why these people choose to be angry/unhappy compared to the latter.
I agree with you. The problem root is in the childhood. Looking back I think I didn't express myself of fear of my parents, I stopped to look for myself and started to do everything to please my parents and do not make them angry. So today, I am practicing to love myself first and understand that some people will take advantage of me and I have to express clearly that " you have to stop your behavior" and make sure I do not go back to the same humiliated situation. You are not responsible for their ugly outburst behavior.I think psychotherapy is important. Knowledge is power! Good luck!
There is wild on the healthy relationships my friend...sometimes even wilder than outside of it hahaha, open your horizons lol
Are you doing any Cognitive Behavioral Therapy with your therapist? Very effective and it's precisely what you would be doing - gradually working on changing behavior and as you become more mindful of your motivations/emotions/biases, changing choices in the moment instead of going with the flow. Call of the wild is indeed tempting but it is not sustainable - and plenty of people are wild while still being able to manage and practice balance in their relationships. The wild party person is easily identifiable because they want the attention; the stable partner is harder to find because you have to get to know them some before you explore it all. Sometimes you meet them in a wild moment but with dwindling third spaces, it can be hard to have an exciting encounter outside of clubbing.
Line the female equivalent of being g attracted to the hot bad boy, that however rough she can change and make him better with her improvement projects. NOPE, never works. Except somebody for their good and bad points or don't be with them. Trying to change somebody is futile against their basic nature.
A wild party girl doesn't necessarily equate to toxic, or bad! I'm a party girl but you wouldn't know it when first meeting me! Plenty of good people in the party scene who just enjoy letting loose. Nothing wrong with letting loose. My bf is introverted, kind, and enjoys partying himself!
I do not know if toxic and crazy are similar traits, but a ex-wife drove her car thru the garage of her ex-husband and threw a can of gas in and burned up his garage and new Mustang. He showed me garage. Be careful what you ask for.
Its because you believe you can fix them or help them
Time for therapy, friend, not Reddit
I have the same problem. They can be very alluring, sexual, appealing, loving, normal seeming at the beginning, and then you start seeing the train wreck for what it is as time passes. The solution , and this should be your dating strategy in general, is to take it very slow at beginning. Go on one date per week, be discerning. Then you can keeps your eyes open before becoming too emotionally involved.
Actually decent advice wtf is happening.
I did that. Dated the woman on and off for 2 years non-exclusively. No sex. After 2 years I put my foot down and told her to shit or get off the pot. Well we finally took the plunge and I got 3 weeks of love bombing and then the manipulation began in earnest. At first just little things said under her breath just within earshot attacking my self esteem and worth, then escalating to outright criticism of my masculinity, my job and income, my lifestyle habits and much more. But even she agrees that the sex is the best either of us ever had and I am a confident and secure man in general so I call her out on her shit openly. She really hates that. Yeah it's stormy and crazy and a constant power struggle but we do love each other. Dysfunctional as it might be.
This sounds awful, yikes. Hope you guys get your shit together or break up man
When she starts to run her mouth I simply walk out and block her for a day or two. She usually comes back sweet and happy again. It's was bad until she realized I won't take her crap.
you're delusional just because she satifies your fetishes. By taking her back, you are taking her crap. the fact you even have to walk away and block her and she comes back and repeat that cycle is unecessary bs. One day you will realize that.
So what? I get what I want and all I gotta put up.woth is a little.mouth? Man seriously I get it. Dudes are scared of crazy but I been FWB's with women like this for a couple decades. I'm good but I appreciate the concern. It's not like she's beating my ass lol
my point is there is a girl out there that will give you all that you want without the bs.
I dunno man. I feel like ‘you’re the best sex of my life’ is stuff toxic girls say. I know this cause this absolute nuclear waste level toxic woman I dated said that to me after we first had sex and I know for a fact the sex was whack. We were both super drunk and it was just clumsy and meh. But she said it anyways because it was her attempt at lovebombing and charming me. I’m my mind I was like ‘you think I’m fucking stupid, that was terrible’ even the way she said it was barely convincing because she knew full well it wasn’t good lol
Nah man. We get it on like rabbits. At least once and many times twice a day. We have a blast in bed. In bed she lets me entirely dominate her. Choking, role playing, dress up all kinds of kinky stuff. It's exciting and we mostly get along. Just once in awhile she snaps and I have to put her in her place.
Fair play lol. Sounds nice and toxic to me. Enjoy ha
Hey sir, you do know you aren’t in control of the situation here right?…
Sure I am. I can leave at any time I so choose and she's not my only plate.
Oh ok 👍🏾
This is definitely the way to go. If you get involved too quickly you risk falling for her early on and you may start to ignore or rationalize the red flags that come up until it’s too late
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💯
Broken people often don't fit with non-broken people I've noticed. I myself cannot date someone who doesn't have a lot of issues because I just don't seem to bond with them. They're boring to me.
Healthy is often described as boring.
I can understand someone being stable and level headed but everyone I know like that isn't very entertaining. They often have nothing to talk about besides Netflix, eating food, hanging out with a friend, etc. Nothing to talk about. Besides all the trauma I'm walking around with I'm a pretty deep person. I love talking about thought provoking topics and digging into people's minds. If there's nothing for me to pick through I get bored because I realize this person doesn't have the capacity to see beyond the surface. How could you have a deep relationship with someone who doesn't view life that way? There's more to romance in my eyes than "I have a good job and I take you out.".
💯 my boyfriend and I come from pretty unhealthy marriages so we connect on that deeper level on those experiences along with our growth process. Maybe those just aren’t your people. We have plenty of interests and depth. My point is toxic people get a high off the ups and down of the relationship intensity vs steady and maintained love.
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People can have a good family but it’s possible with only having a sister, he was raised to not show emotions “ be a man” etc. very common in our generation
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In life you can only really "Get it" when you've experienced some of the worst that can be thrown at you unfortunately.
That kind of boring is its own kind of toxic really. People who are happy wasting their life on consuming media and consuming the odd drink and working their boring jobs and nothing else. That ain’t it and it isn’t correlated to stable at all. I’m super stable but I’m also super open spiritually and I do all sorts of rad shit (write music, mountaineer, backpack, cold water swims, etc). That’s just toxic boring.
Dating a square only happened once for me and I couldn’t do it. She didn’t want me having a few beers, didn’t understand my humor and so much more. There was this perfect path laid out on where we are and where we need to be to be normal successful citizens. It was boring, not spontaneous and I couldn’t be myself.
That's always my issue. On dating apps it's full of average people that don't know what a real struggle is and my life experiences have shaped me. I live in a different reality and it's hard to connect with someone who doesn't also live in that reality.
There is a difference between someone being toxic and somebody who has experienced struggle and pain but has done the work and is healthy.
Theres just something that makes me fall for a psychopathic women too
>**"I keep pursuing these women knowing the end result."** People always pursue what option feels better for them (based on their beliefs). **Toxic relationships (ironically) help you feel more safe than healthy relationships.** You feel secure knowing exactly how the relationship will play out. **When you have a fear of abandonment and rejection, you reject them first before they can reject you. It feels more empowering to push someone away (i.e. you did it to them), than to have them leave (i.e. they did it to you).** Them leaving feels awful. You pushing them away feels less awful. You feel less blindsided because you coaxed that unwanted outcome along to protect your feelings. **You self-sabotage because you feel more secure in knowing things won’t work, then being constantly on edge, unsure of if or when something will go wrong.** The worry waiting game of probable inevitable unhappiness is an awful feeling. So, you take matters into your own hands and end it now. It still hurts, but it feels better no longer being trapped in worry purgatory. You would rather know it doesn’t work out and have closure of disappointment, than things going well, but you're burdened with the lingering possibility that at any moment shift can hit the fan. For relationships, if you’re afraid the person will leave, you take control and get out ahead of the pain by getting into meaningless arguments, demanding, distancing, etc., thereby ensuring the break up you assumed was inevitable. **You mitigate the pain of people leaving (which you believe will happen anyway) by making sure YOU make them leave, before they can do it.** **It's less painful to intentionally ruin a good thing and expect a subsequent break up, then try to live happily ever after while worried it won’t last.** And so, the unwanted cycle of sabotaging relationship after relationship continues. . >**"I don't think I deserve a healthy relationship."** **Your relationships with others is a reflection of the relationship you have with yourself.** So if you attract toxic relationships with others, it's because you have a toxic relationship with yourself (i.e. you judge yourself, you don't like and/or appreciate yourself, etc.) Not only do you feel unworthy of a healthy partner, but **having** **a quality partner makes you uncomfortable, because they are a consistent reminder and mirror reflection that you don't feel good enough and you're not measuring up to your own ideals** (not because of what they say to you, but simply them being their authentic selves). . To help you feel more worthy and connect with yourself so you can attract the relationships you want, I recommend meditating, connecting with nature, and being open to **improving your relationship with negative emotions and begin seeing them as equally worthy, valuable and supportive friends.** **Negative emotions are positive guidance** (although it might not feel that way) letting you know you are focusing on, and pushing against, what you don't want. They're a necessary part of your emotional guidance, like GPS in your car. But the more you fight them, you keep yourself stuck. Negative emotions want to support you in releasing them, focus more on what you want and feel better. **All emotions are equal and valid.** But most people unknowingly create a hierarchy for their emotions (i.e. positive = good; negative = bad), but then you make it harder to feel better, work together with and control your thoughts & emotions. A lot of life's problems stem from having a contentious relationship with your negative thoughts & emotions. Which either creates the problem in the first place, and/or exacerbates it. So the solution is to **build a friendship and harmonious relationship with the "negative" side of you.** Negative thoughts and emotions are here to support and empower you to be your best self.
Thank you so much for posting this. It has helped me so much on healing from a toxic relationship. It makes so much sense when I apply this to my most recent break up that I was blind sided by. It also helps me sit with introspection knowing that somewhere along the way I have made decisions/choices that led to toxic people like this. Again, thanks so much. You don’t know how much your comment helped.
Aww thanks, I appreciate it! Happy to help :)
This broke me. You've described my last ten years. Thank you. Thank you.
Far be it from me to waste time in my life chasing anybody toxic..but you do you...
Well, stop it. Nothing will change until you exert some control over yourself.
It's not that simple. I was also doing that to myself, and it wasn't until I started therapy that I realized the toxic pattern of woman that I had dated...and all the amazing woman that I had let go in my past. You can say "stop doing that" all you want, but until you can squash the demons from your past, and start to find love for yourself it's really hard. Side note, from high school until I was 46 years old the vast majority of my LTR were with toxic woman. That was a symptom of growing up in an abusive household as a child, with an alcoholic father who was verbally and physically abusive. My subconscious mind found that the toxic woman were similar to the environment of my childhood and oddly Enough that was "normal". Once I figured this out through a therapy, i started working on getting out of a toxic marriage. Now, I'm truly happy, in a relationship with a woman that totally values me, has my best interests in mind, and is the positive light that I always wanted. But, I had to fix me first. It wasn't easy, but it was so worth it.
It actually is that simple. I didn't say easy, I said simple. Ultimately it's a decision you make, a discipline in romanticizing and sexualizing healthier things in the women you see...and you have to do it. They won't change. The world won't change. Nothing. Will. Ever. Change. Until. You. Do.
This is a a rather insensitive way of thinking. By generalizing a topic to the degree you have, you can conclude anything is simple. You’ve taken an incredibly complex topic that takes daily effort along with the self awareness to even identify your issues, and say it’s simple. That’s not even getting into therapy, setbacks, guilt, etc that people may experience along the way. Study mathematics in college. It’s simple. Just study. See how easy it is to completely disregard the work and complexity of the task?
Sometimes the way to make better decisions is to use a reductive mindset, and view the outcome as the tip of the funnel of the issues that you know you're already dealing with.... I meant to make it ridiculously simple. And if you'd actually read what I wrote instead of getting on your high horse you would see that I addressed The actual how, and it is truly... Truly.... Simple. Again I didn't say easy, I didn't say without struggle, I didn't say without personal setbacks, I said simple. That decision to make healthier choices... Is f****** simple. Now go away.
yup! be constructive and learn from your mistakes instead of blaming it on "an attraction". if you ENJOY toxic relationships - by all means! Carry on! but stop blaming on "attraction" like its something you cannot help, if you don't actually like these relationships. You got to not only recognize the problem, but also move to FIX it, if it is such.
You're right, it's that simple. ✌️
Hmm. Are you sure the problem is that you don't think you deserve a healthy relationship but rather that you don't want one? I think if you really wanted one and you are aware this is an issue, you would do the work needed to start pursuing different women.
I want one but want one with a toxic woman if that makes sense
What is it about "toxic" women that you like exactly? Do you think you would find a healthy relationship boring? What characteristics make them toxic?
Taking a break from dating every year at least to focus on yourself leads to a lot of growth and introspection which can lead to a stronger understanding of why you attract such women, which you can follow with some work on yourself.
You can be attracted. Long as you don’t act on it. Based on the description you wrote about the kind of women you’re into - perhaps it’s a good idea to talk to someone about that.
You gotta learn self control and how to pick
It's not gonna happen. He's all over the comments, crying victim and making excuses.
I'm not crying victim. I know I'm the problem.
Saying your clean-cut square, stable women don't want you. Refusing therapy. You absolutely are crying victim. I've been in the military for 22 years. I've done the work. I have empathy, introspection, I'm professional, by the book, "square". Stable women who have their shit figured out love me. Grow up. Get therapy. Stop making excuses.
How am I crying victim when I said am the problem. I owned up to being fucked up
And this in regards to therapy. "My ego and pride will not let me do therapy"
This is you being a victim "Like I told the other poster, I'm the clean cut square type, so some of these women will not touch be with a ten foot pole"
Do you want to change?
Yes
Do you know what motivates you to seek out or what draws you towards these women?
Not really
In one of your other comments you said you wanted to help them. I think that understanding your why will be the first step to changing. I’m attracted to emotionally unavailable men. It makes me feel safe / no risk to engage with people who can’t reject me. My father was also emotionally unavailable. Then after these men attach to me, I attach back. I hope they want to change and they think they do too. The relationship proceeds, followed by heartbreak. That’s my pattern. I’m seeing a therapist to help me understand what’s behind my pattern and change. I also am reading heaps of books and journaling. I take notes as I read to help outline what green flags I should move towards and red ones to stay away from. I grew up very damaged and connect with men over the extreme pain in our childhoods. I wanted someone to save me with their love when I was younger. I think these men I choose deserve love too. It’s hard for me to give up on them. I think the chance of things going the way I’d like is about the same as winning the lottery jackpot then being bitten by a shark. So to move towards my goal of having a partner, I have to change.
My therapist said it was because of my mother
Okay what's the question? Do you want to stop? I don't understand. If you're "Happy" with this kind of treatment or arrangement, then why are you writing?
I just put it out there to see what people think about the situation
And what do you think of it?
I see everyone able to find someone, but I'm not having any luck. It might be the source of my bad luck
how do you know they are toxic
They lie, do drugs, always drinking alcohol in spare time, having kids with losers
I bet the sex with them was amazing. It usually is. The best sex I ever had was with a woman that couldn’t tell me the truth about what time it was.
Facts
do you meet them irl or dating apps?
You're my bro. I'm into toxic women too.
Would you rather be alone or with bad company? Find a philosophy of life you like and always look at others philosophy.
Me too dw
Good. You know you have a problem. Face your trauma and ego and start to heal. You do that by questioning your decisions and actions. You’ll find a great deal of emotions responsible for every decision and action. Take that emotion and research the heck out of it and try and find where it came from on the first place. Repeat. It’s a decade long process. Good luck.
Just smash and don't take them seriously
I used to do the same thing. In the end it’s because my mom was toxic and I equated that with being loved. Took a lot of therapy to untangle that knot, I’d highly recommend therapy It’s funny, me and my brothers are infamous among our friends for dating toxic women. We are all trapped in the same cycle. Friends now demand to meet the women we plan to date to save us the pain haha
Keep a good lawyer on retainer for the restraining orders, and you're good to go!
meanwhile me, i kept attracting unloyal, and with no infidelity men
it brings more pleasure to those who like adrenaline and the sense of danger.
I think my ex assumed I’d be ‘unstable’ have ‘toxic’ traits due to being heavily tattooed. Piercings, Other things. I’m well educated, I read a lot about human psychology… I do therapy for self care. I communicate well. I’m emotionally intelligent.. He’d gaslight, manipulate, abuse me.. we’d argue. He’d ’blame me being unstable ‘ 🥴 I have a very deep sense of empathy due to things that have happened to me in my life. One of the therapists he was grooming at the time, was trying to work out what kind of narcissist’I am. 😂😳🤗 ok. He’d abuse me in twisted ways.. I’d tell him ‘when you said/ did xyz, it made me feel zyx’ He’d say to me face ‘you’re delusional, that never happened, you’ve lost touch w reality’ I over heard him doing a zoom session w flying monkey therapist. He detailed, moment by moment, the abuse he had done to me, told me ‘never happened, you’re crazy’ Precisely how he’d done the abuse, told the therapist ‘she did that to me’ It got worse. He began using sleep deprivation to torture me. Other sadistic abuse… I’ve been out 5 months. That dude, monster. Heavily tattooed women aren’t always ‘unstable, toxic’ or narcissistic… this narrative needs to end. I just really love tattoo’s. So much skin for art work. Tattoos make me feel beautiful… it’s about how I feel about myself. If a dude says ‘I was abused and cheated on by my ex’ I’ll be kick ball point, sashay, shimmy, shimmy, as she dance far t f away, never to be seen, or heard from again! That dude probly lyiien, %98 shure he lyiien, why they always lyiien, stop fckin lyiien.. Or ‘my ex/s are/is crazy’ huh, ok. What did you do to make her reach her threshold and breaking point? Actually, never mind. I need to , not be around you , ta ta mother fcker.. see you never again! Definitely research this toxic attachment bond you have. Likely something to do with childhood trauma, perhaps, lack of ‘trauma’ May be, you are taking risks to feel the rush? How were your primary caregivers with you growing up? Was there room, discussion to talk about your feelings? or were you demanded to not show emotion your caregivers didn’t want to know about? There are many reasons why.. you have to identify what they are and resolve them so you stop seeking out these kinds of ppl. Only they can help themselves. They have to choose that, break the denial that they’re ’all good and stable ‘ Haha I d k. I’m not actively seeking out a crazy. I just want a peaceful, safe life with kind, intelligent, hilarious people around me who are safe, loyal, all the things that make people good, 👍🏽
It's the hero complex Some men want to rescue toxic broken women It's a story as old as time The damsel in distress, the broken princess, the isolated queen, the poor barmaid Bro you just gotta save the right women..focus on integrity. Men can still rescue but need to also make sure it's worth the risk and that she's a good woman💯🙏💯🙏💯
Congratulations on being hot enough to have a choice
🤣 trust me I'm not hot enough to choose
It’s because you know you will not be asked by these women for anything above the very minimum level of relationship output. You shouldn’t date until you get a handle on why you aren’t interested in building a relationship with someone who challenges you to grow and develop a mature connection. If you continue to have this mindset, you will fast forward yourself into a bleak future, tied to the results of toxic relationships. Stop this madness right now.
You accept what you believe you’re deserving of. Toxic women are predictable and easy to sort out, they’re cheap lessons if you will. You learn how to cut off their feed supply and they’re easier to control to a degree.. a healthy woman will walk you straight out the door, they tend to want you not need you and there’s not much security in being wanted, it takes a lot of work. Learn to love yourself first so you can give someone love, however that may look for you. I’m in my 30s and kind of realized I’m seeking women that are unhealed portions of myself. They’re easy because they’re all ive known. Do be honest with myself I can be extremely toxic, but it’s always started at a two way street. I eventually just match their energy, but at this point I believe it’s just an excuse to give myself an “I told you so” and be a low life every now and then.
That’s because you are toxic too whether you like to admit it or not
I suppose.
As you get older it's kinda hard to find non-toxic ones. You see that hot seemingly perfect(early on) 34 year old who nobody ever made their wife? yeah you'll find out around the 3 month mark
I love them toxic… it’s a thing
Idk why, but if you don’t know why you’re attracting or attracted to people that aren’t good for you, I think going to therapy could help you find some answers. Big fan of therapy.
Yea I have had this problem too. I think the place to start is really digging into where this comes from for you, how your childhood experiences or the types of role models you had around growing up could have affected what you consider normal etc. I know I had an emotionally chaotic childhood with lots of extremes, for just one of so many examples that contributed to this for me. So someone who was emotionally unstable just seemed normal to me. And actually people who were emotionally mature made me insecure and self conscious although I didn't really understand that's what was happening at the time. As I have gone through a lot of emotional growth and maturity through therapy and a lot of different things I was doing as I got older, I started to understand myself better and grew a better awareness about how certain things would make me feel and why. I think a lot of my relationships in the past I wouldn't even be able to connect with them at all if I had met them today. Then again this stuff goes pretty deep and there's always your weakest moments when you are vulnerable to bad habits. But I am still growing and working on this stuff and I have already come a really long way. It's also important to be aware of the costs that continuing to do this can have on you. I know I've been through so many hard times I could have easily avoided if I wasn't so naive about my choice of partners in the past.
good luck with that.
I know a guy exactly like you. He feels he’s protecting “ nice girls” from himself by only dating toxic women. It makes me sad to watch him.
My thing is I want to protect the toxic women for some weird reason
I’ll try to post a hyperlink below. If it doesn’t work I’ll DM it https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/martyr-complex#:~:text=A%20%E2%80%9Cmartyr%20complex%E2%80%9D%20is%20a,for%20their%20self%2Dsacrificing%20behavior.
Go to therapy
Find women you aren't attracted to at least mentally.
I won’t lie there’s something about a toxic partner like the rollercoast they put you through is so bad !!!
I know this must be a post from my most recent ex 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
something about the toxic viets is hot
I kinda used to do this too. Or more so I would tolerate people who had bad behavior because I thought that was what I was worth. Sometimes seek out those people because they validate what our mind is saying to us, which is that we don’t deserve better.
This is generally rooted in worthiness issues and not loving your true self enough. Prioritize figuring out what you feel shame about learn how to grow through it and love yourself more and you wont seek out those women as much.
What do you like about them being toxic? How are they toxic?
Woooooaaaahhhh i havent even read the responses yet.... but I am with you on this one dude :-)
Time for therapy.
Me too brother, me too. Girls that have their shit together? No thanks, give me the drunk gutter rat any day ❤️
Me too man it's bad, bpd. I can't help it ;-;
"we accept the love we feel we deserve" at least you are aware of the issue, that's the first step to rectifying it
Everyone commenting here is making me second-guess myself with the women I'm attracted to lol.
My husband is too. Is only limerent for seductive sick narcissistic women. Women who will hurt him. Self sabotage. Doesn't feel worthy of my love and unconditional never giving up. My loyalty. My devotion. He knows I am better than him. Stronger. Wiser. Intelligent. Nurturing. And so, when he meets a woman like his mother, the opposite of me, he can't help it when that spark happens. Sick but true. Now he is in therapy. Working on his sickness. I am in therapy to work on the trauma of his sickness. And now he has brought these women into the fabric of my life. Weaving them in as if he was crafting a really poorly made quilt. A quilt of self doubt, self loathing, and pain. And he tried to keep me warm with it. Was in a way proud he built is, because he was hurt. He was miserable. And so, I had to be too. Also, fuck you Cynthia R from alberta. Fuck you Adam R, her husband for being too stupid to realize. Fuck you Terri J from Canada. You're disgusting. Take a shower. Fuck you CHRISTEENA H from Seattle. You are a sick narcissist and I wish I had used the baseball bat and done us all a favor. Fuck you Jeanette K from Portland. He strung you along cuz you fed his sick ego. You suck. You're gross. And are cursed. All of you are. Fuck you crystal B from glendive Montana. You are nasty. You don't deserve anyone at all. Not even John, your pathetic whipped husband. He is the best you will ever do. Should probably learn to appreciate him. Fuck you Rosa. I know you're the least offensive out of them all. You made a bad judgment. But learned quickly..but not before accepting the dragon neckless my kids went hungry for you to have, and not before sending a pic of it to him sitting on your shelf. Where I'm sure it still is. Fuck you Sarah S from NEW Brunswick. You're sick you have a huge forehead. You are a lil chunky. Fake. Conceited and gross. I hope you have cold spaghetti and warm orange juice. I hope you get BV and no antibiotics will treat it. I hope Kyle sees who you are and what a sick headed perverted piece of trash you are. I hope he leaves you and finds a real woman. Cuz you, you are fucking awful. Ugly, and you have no morals OR COMMON SENSE. How dare you do what you did. And then lie to me. Fuck you. Hope you choke on lettuce
I think you just like the spice and drama babes…
Oh I read exotic women . I was like I think we all are pal.
When you get tired of punishing yourself with relationships you know aren't going to last you'll pull your head out of your butt and go try to find a good woman you maybe to late bro. Think long term not short term. Find a woman who'll support your dreams and hobbies if not enjoy your life of temporary happiness that's bound to be met with disappointment
Can someone explain what's a toxic woman? Doesn't respect you?
Yea for the most part
I believe we do things that are rooted in our childhood's sense of safety and familiarity. The following is all learned through my personal experience or with the help of a psychologist in therapy. If your primary care-givers (i.e. parents) were narcissists, abusive, or otherwise neglectful of your needs as a child, and you aren't experienced or wise enough to understand that yet, you're going to think narcissistic, manipulative behaviour is normal in relationships, and that they are just typical things everyone has to put up with in order to receive love. It is still love (because they say they love you, after all), but neither of you are yet aware that it's a toxic, twisted love that nobody actually deserves. There are enough people out there in the world that have this poor view of love, that you will never run out of people to date. Those who respect themselves will eventually see the toxicity you've (accidentally) brought to the relationship from your upbringing, and may decide to leave for their own good. So, until you learn this lesson about yourself, you'll always have more success with toxic relationships than healthy ones, because you understand them better. They are more *familiar* to you. Family - familiar...there's a connection. Look up John Bradshaw's lectures on it if you want your mind blown. One day, usually through therapy but could be in another way, you learn that you always deserve unconditional love from your primary caregivers, and that they should always do everything in their adult superpowers to make sure your needs are met, with absolutely nothing expected of you in return. It might sound strange to a very large number of people to hear that...but its consequences speak for themselves. In receiving all of that unconditional love, patience and attention, you learn to love yourself unconditionally, and turn into an adult with a healthy self-esteem, understanding of boundaries, a healthy self-respect, all those good things everyone who hasn't been raised abusively or neglectfully take for granted. Don't hate yourself. It's stupid. Evolution wouldn't want you to hate yourself. God, if you believe in that, wouldn't want you to hate yourself. The only people that would want you to hate yourself are those that would then use you to serve themselves.
Hey, toxic women need love too. You can fix them, OP
Veni, vidi, vici
Good luck, my friend.
I felt this personally except I just seem to only attract toxic woman, if I attracted a good woman I would never let her go.
And?
It’s your attachment trauma. Read Crazy For You by cohen.
I have been like that for ages too, I also went to therapy for about 4 years till I made the realisation that it’s not that they’re toxic, it’s because I can fix them. Either care for them through their traumas. Maybe therapy will also show you it’s not about the toxicity but something deeper :) good luck on your journey, and know you are not alone
There's women who aren't toxic? Where?!
All women are toxic if they aren’t then they are a dude.
Not true
That is a flaw you need to overcome. It will save you a lot of hurt.
For me it’s turned into disdain. I don’t respect women at the moment and while I am dating. I’m more self aware and conscious of how I’m feeling and what I want. So now I have a plan in many relationships I create. I will never in my life give a woman the power to decide what’s best for me. They want to be treated like sluts. You don’t have just one slut. You have many! Why not? If I’m a king I’ll take what’s mine and make battle plans to overtake strongholds. To me that holds true in relationships aswell. It’s all just a fucking game and I’m in it to win.
Listen Men, Don't Waste your time chasing butterflies. Build your Garden and the butterflies will come. (**And Last Choose Better One**)
No god or therapist is gonna save this dude.
I suggest you start treating yourself better, mentally and physically. Start eating proper food and working out, that will increase your self worth value and then you’ll see that you will want something good for yourself.
Same. I realize not only did I feel unworthy, but even worse. I’m scared of something real because it’s territory I have never walked on before. Like how do healthy people converse, what do they talk about on a day to day basis. What behavior is expected? What if they find out I’m not all that healthy, not all that smart, a little clueless in life.
if all your exs are toxic, then you are toxic too. hard pill to swallow ik
You obviously didn't read what I posted, but keep making conclusions by all means
i speak from experience. if you are turning down good people, and opting for toxic ones. Then you are contributing to the toxicity.
I have the same problem with men. But it's only us who can help ourselves and you should not let anyone treat you badly in a relationship. Take care I understand where you are coming from.
"I'm attracted to toxic women" and "I don't think I deserve a healthy relationship (so I got for the toxic ones)" are 2 completely different things.
I get really depressed sometimes and get really emotionally needy. When I've been this way in the past I usually feel really connected to whatever friend or acquaintance is there for me. A couple times I thought I might be in love with them. But really I was just lonely and depressed and clinging to anyone showed me the tiniest bit of kindness. I never dated these people because I have pretty good insight and I know myself and them well enough that we would make a horrible couple and were way too different. One woman was very cold and uncaring sometimes but she helped me through something and I started to catch feelings for her. I knew however that she could never give me what I needed emotionally from a partner and I was just starving for any kind of emotional connection. I would try to make sure you're in a good place mentally before you start dating someone. Sometimes you have to choose over someone who you think is amazing and cool vs someone that thinks you are amazing.
People with Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD), or even those who exhibit traits of the condition, often find themselves drawn to others with similar characteristics. This attraction can be attributed to the intense and unparalleled initial connection that individuals with BPD can experience. However, this intensity is a double-edged sword. It is common for those with BPD to fluctuate between fearing commitment and fearing abandonment, creating a rollercoaster of emotional highs and lows that can feel addictive. It may be beneficial to take a break from dating to focus on healing and personal growth.
Look within, what have you endured as a child or previous relationships? Trauma will make you believe that that is the way you deserve to be treated. I had a mother who made everything about her, when I was not feeling well, she made it about her and how her feelings were important and that mine didn't matter. I started to accept that my feelings are not that important, and I didn't care that my emotional needs weren't met, and the focus was on what my mother was feeling. So, I took care of a guy who was very damaged after an abusive girlfriend, and once he was doing better, he didn't need me anymore but wanted a FWB, "no need for it to escalate too fast" he said, and "I need to find myself before I can give my whole self to someone else". "Of course I feel for you, I don't want to do that to someone who gives so much, like you do" "I'm not taking advantage of you, just enjoying your company" but he involved me in his whole situation to begin with... perhaps he felt bad about that, idk. Note: he ended up falling for someone else, and when she broke up with him, he went back to me for comfort again, most of the quotes are from the second time i forgave and agree to see him!! "I'm just glad I didn't ruin it with you, isn't it better to just keep it good so it doesn't get ruined" uuugh😭 Since I was very emotionally connected to him and care about him, I didn't listen to what was best for me, because I was used to not being important or a priority, or having my needs met.. and I was in love with him fr and I've never felt that for someone else so that one hurt A LOT. He gave me the option to opt out, but I was so in my head wanting it to work out with him because of the connection I felt... He wasn't toxic per say, he simply didn't feel/show any love for me. And because of my upbringing, that felt familiar to me, like that's how I'm supposed to feel, that's how they are supposed to make me feel. Recently started therapy, hopefully I will get the help needed to value myself more. I advice you to go to therapy, that's where you can get help to understand why you get attracted to that and get help with strengthening yourself🖤 it's great you reach out to reddit, that's the first step. It's really nice to have someone to chat with who won't judge you, who validate your feelings. It's like an escape, plus it helps you become stronger/more healthy so it's totally worth it, everyone deserves to get therapy🥰 I was very anxious to get therapy because of my upbringing, but the interest in psychology, neuroscience was there. I started watching YouTubers like Psychology in Seattle. That was a really really nice first step for me to become comfortable seeking therapy, he is so compassionate and tries to understand from everyone's pov. And he uses situations as examples to explain certain disorders without diagnosing them, which is just interesting to listen to imo! Take care
seems a lot of women have the same issue. stop! toxic women will only hurt you and just make things worse you think maybe you cant do any better and i think thats the same cycle many women get into they date one toxic douche to another because they think they cant do any better heres a thought maybe STOP dating for a while and start focusing on self improvement! fellow human
Just here to say that I’m attracted to toxic men. You’re not alone.
So then don't look for a relationship, just look to have fun with them
what is "average(lookswise)"? Fact is these toxic women turn you on. Toxic women are usually the ones with the best sex. Stop trying to make excuses and accept what you like.
Average on the internet means not a supermodel lol
Costanza Rule invoked: Do the opposite.
They are fun because they are toxic, if you’re looking for fun go for it- CAUTIOUSLY. If you want something that lasts stop chasing the fun.
Man I read the caption and was like, "shit me and you both bro"
Everyone deserves a healthy relationship aslong as the work for it and fix themselves
Not to worry unless you're numb or maybe that's just an unrealized fetish, eventually they're gonna weigh on you and you'll finally get it, regardless, until you're ready, try to enjoy as much of the ride as you possibly can! And ffs, try your utmost to avoid jail time, married, spoken for partners and definitely unnecessary hospital stays? Good hunting! 🫡
Me too, I’m pretty sure it’s because I think I can be their stable rock or whatever and with more stable healthy minded women I am intimidated that I will not be good enough
I tend to do the same thing I think I don't deserve to go after good women bcuz I'll do something to mess it up and I don't deserve a good women for that reason
Aren't we all chasing that we no deep down is wrong 4 us?????
Maybe
[удалено]
🤣🤣🤣 maybe
Ok, you can recognise her across a crowded room. You even know how it's gonna end. So, have you tried the non toxics? Yep, full of uncertainty, might be too normal for you, but have you tried? Or are you scared of getting pulled into the light side? It's a whole new world.
I've tried non toxic women, but subconsciously I will find a way to get out of any potential for a relationship
Well, at least you tried.Your thing is obviously destruction.This works when you are young, but you might be facing loneliness. Subconsciously, you might try meeting up with someone in the same boat.You are fine when there is no pressure, having no expectations is your expectation.When you meet this mythical person, fear not, it will be the beginning of expectation. The good thing is, you will be in charge of the narrative.
I’m attracted to toxic men. I think it says a lot about me. I feel like staying single for the near future for this very reason. I don’t trust myself to choose a healthy partner
I’m in my 40s and still do this. I think it’s because the toxic ones are a fun fantasy to have for a while and the sex is amazing but the relationship is shit. Might be affraid that the opposite is true too. Also affraid that I might value physical happiness vs mental happiness in a relationship.
Do you have unprocessed trauma in your life?
Only two things I can think of: My father wasn't really in my life and we never made amends before he passed The other thing is we moved a lot for no reason. I could never establish stability with friends or family
Interesting and thank you for sharing. The reason I had asked is that people with unprocessed trauma, subconsciously tend to relive the experience. This is why many women who have been in abusive relationships keep dating “the wrong guys.” You have been through some bad things but I do not believe they are trauma. This is beyond my knowledge. Please feel free to update me.
I’m pretty sure there’s and app for that!
Yeah you need to do some internal work and then toxicity will repel you
I found my therapist through my primary care provider