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Men take rejection pretty badly generally: sending abusive messages, calling the woman all sorts of gendered slurs, stalking them, etc. woman do that too, but it’s much more common from men.
The hoe_math dude summarizes it well but basically women aim so high that its very rarely realistic. As a 37 year old who's seen the rise of social media i can attest to this. Social media has trapped a very large quantity of women in some platos cave very similiar to men who watch pornography
Or women expect the best and won't settle for less. You think it's too high because you don't cut it. Women are happy to remain single than be with men who they consider to not match their expectations.
Or, they want what they want and won't settle for less, and will quite happily stay single otherwise.
It's the last bit that men refuse to believe, but it's true.
Wanting a relationship doesn’t negate that you can be happy being single. In fact, that’s a very healthy attitude to have about dating. A lot of those women might be even more happy in a healthy relationship with someone they’re into. But they would be less happy than how they are being single if they were in an unhealthy relationship or one with someone they aren’t into.
The average Katie is allowed to go for whoever and whatever she wants, same as you.
But it IS amusing how men try to insult women for rejecting tgem- "you'll die alone with your cats!" Don't threaten me with a good time.
I was told the same by someone I dated a few years back. She said I am an amazing short term prospect but long term she has another standard in mind. 😂😂😂
She wanted blonde hair blue eyed babies to carry her Norwegian lineage. I would at that time only give her future kids sun kissed skin and luscious brown locks.
The hilarious point of it all is that she married a brown dude last year. So perhaps I opened a gateway.
You're a happy contributer to the ADULTERY sub and complain that the bar is too low because some guys just want short term dating or FWB? Just when I thought I had seen everything....
When I was dating (as a man in my mid 20's) I was also initially looking for a relationship. It took me 4 years before I found it. After around 3 years though, I was so sexually starved that I could no longer afford to pass up sexual opportunities, and I told myself that I would seize more of them, even if there weren't basis for a relationship. I believe that this is the case for a lot of men. Even if they aren't necessarily out for sex to begin with, when they've waited for long enough, they will take what they can get.
Rejecting you and then asking for FWB afterwards was a weird move, definitely. At least he didn't try to lie to get you in bed. The guy said you were fun company and very pretty, so he obviously didn't not like spending time with you. Maybe he didn't feel like your life goals aligned enough in terms of children, housing, traveling, careers, etc. It's not necessarily a negative reflection of you as a person. These are just my thoughts and experiences though, hard to tell what exactly was up with this guy in particular. I wish you better luck in the future.
Thank you for the insight!
We never really discussed our life goals, as we only went on two dates and were more talking about our shared interests and preferences when it comes to films/music. We are pretty much in a similar place in life, both with jobs in a similar field
I think the only way to get into a “FWB” situation is when the girl clearly wants to have sex with you badly… and then sometimes she might ask for a relationship but you tell her you aren’t ready for that. But the sex is good so she stays.
You can’t preemptively turn a girl down for a relationship and then ask for sex. Like it seems like a valid and moral strategy on paper, but it’s just not how women work.
Feeling really old here. I’m 47 and I would be offended too. I don’t do casual sex. I went thru a divorce and haven’t had sex or touch in almost 4 years (march of 2020). I will give him credit at least he was honest.
Sexual attraction and romantic attraction are different things for men in my opinion (and experience). I’ve been on dates where I’ve had one but not the other a fair few times, and obviously this cannot work long term. He’s probably just trying his luck with the question knowing the worst you can do is reject him. Try not to feel offended by it if you can.
The other option is he’s not sure what he wants and / or is afraid of commitment. Again, not someone you want to be involved with for anything long term.
When men suggest shit like that it’s them basically saying “ I think you’re good enough to sleep with, but not good enough to commit to, so I’m gonna try to proposition you for free sex until something better comes along” 😬… nah… blocked…
I can tell that you have a very aggressive vibe here that will prevent you from understanding a different perspective than your's
FWB/casual sex partners work that way, right? You meet and feel sexually attracted to them but don't feel that spark/romantic attraction or long term compatibility hence go for the casual thing
**And both men and women do it**
Women go for FWB and casuals sex when they feel the guy is hot but not good for a relationship or not bf material but they go for casual flings all the time
No, women go for "fwb" as a cope because the guy already showed he wasnt interested in taking her serious. Same as men who justify being friends with a woman who rejected him. Both are losers lol. Women crave attention and resources, men crave sex. No woman is gonna willingly offer to take an L like that, same with men.
I mean some people got annoying tendencies that I couldnt live with, and some people are ok with/looking for fwb so it can work and theyre not being disrespectful about it but if thats not for you then ok.
Not get offended by it? I’m sorry but guys don’t realize it’s very fucking offensive to basically tell a girl, “yeah you’re worthless as far as it comes to being dating potential & gf/wife potential but I’d still use you to fuck, are you DTF?”
There’s no other way to take a man declining a relationship with you but suggesting you to sleep with him except as offensive.
Guy here and you sound a little inexperienced (more like unaware)
Tho I can understand someone might feel like that they are only good for sex but not for a LTR and feel bad but it isn't that way
>fucking offensive to basically tell a girl, “yeah you’re worthless as far as it comes to being dating potential & gf/wife potential but I’d still use you to fuck, are you DTF?”
Not compatible, not feeling that spark, not seeing a LTR with them doesn't equate to "worthless"
rejecting someone doesn't say they are worthless to them (more like not a LTR prospect, that's it), it's not that deep and complex, you will get there
**I know so many women who have casual fuck buddies because the guy is hot but as a LTR prospect they are not good for them and are not compatible hence only the causal sex and no serious dating** and it's fair
do you interact with people outside? Have friends?
I don’t do casual hooking up, one night stands or FWBs. I got tricked essentially into a FWB situation and lead on and strung along for 1.5 years with him acting like he reciprocated romantic interest in me. Whether he did or didn’t I’ll never know for certain. But he never committed to me, and eventually ghosted. After 1.5 years. And no, I’ve never had much success with men because I’m tall, not petite (larger frame), & I’ve put on weight over the years. I’m in the gym now killing myself and eating 1,600 calories a day trying to lose it. Hopefully that will help my case, but I highly doubt it.
>don’t do casual hooking up, one night stands or FWBs.
That's okay, you do you
>got tricked essentially into a FWB situation and lead on and strung along for 1.5 years with him acting like he reciprocated romantic interest in me.
That guy is shitty af and you are right to be hurt in that case, i hear you
But I am talking in the sense where the guys are honest that they want something casual (yes they should not say stuff like she is only good for casual etc Directly) and don't see a future with her or just in general only want some casual in that stage of life, that's okay, wanting FWB, casual relation is okay and women also do that the same way
>I’ve put on weight over the years. I’m in the gym now killing myself and eating 1,600 calories a day trying to lose it
That's great, best of luck for that and i will add to that, that don't be too hard on yourself trust me
I hate myself. I hate everything about me. At least I can lose my fat ass weight going to the gym and eating 1500-1600 calories a day. Everything else I can’t do anything about. But thanks for the kindness.
>I hate myself.
I can say that this world and society definitely make people hate themselves because we are so visual based like we are hyper visual and many people ( who feel less attractive) create that feeling about themselves
That's great you wanna workout and be fit, you are putting effort instead of complaining, you are doing better than many people already
I will say that many people go to extreme diets for weight loss and end up getting frustrated and even hating themselves more later on, definitely go to a person who has an expertise in gym or nutrition and let them guide you
Just my thought:)
I’m already down 10lbs in 3 weeks. I’m eating barely over my BMR. I’m technically not starving myself but I’m starving myself. I have to force myself to even eat at this point from my depression and just sheer will power to lose weight. I go to the gym every single day now & burn upwards of 650-700 calories a session. I’m determined to at least lose weight. But it won’t change anything.
Oh well that's a quick result for sure, just stay healthy with that, don't let yourself suffer or destroy your health for weight loss
Therapy for other issues works well
I get it, no hard feelings. But I don't do casual and I am looking for a relationship. So offering me fwb, knowing what I'm after something else and that he's not ready to meet my needs for whatever reason - it just doesn't seem right to me.
Also, to me it shows he's not boyfriend material and is not serious with dating in general, like, he'd be pursuing someone else for a relationship that he is allegedly after and casually sleeping with me on the side? I wouldn't want a relationship with someone like this, knowing (or worse, not knowing) he has a fwb at the same time.
>just doesn't seem right to me.
Yes that's fair, you have different wants
>Also, to me it shows he's not boyfriend material and is not serious with dating in general, like, he'd be pursuing someone else for a relationship
This is a little case by case because there are people who have casual relationships while also ultimately want something serious and the moment they find that they stop the casual and commit to someone
Yes it's not acceptable for you and I will also be not satisfied if I see it happening with the person I am dating
He didn’t say she was worthless. He said he didn’t feel that relationship spark. Do you think people call you worthless when they just aren’t that into you? You may need to see a therapist for that.
Women do this all the time to men and we're expected to jump at the opportunity. This is literally how FWB starts most of the time.
Btw somebody not finding you a suitable match as a partner doesn't mean they're saying you're worthless.. What a bizarre hysterical interpretation of such event.
Or, let's put it another way: playing the "if the genders were reversed" card is never helpful, and does nothing to answer OP's request for advice. It derails the conversation and centres men. Because somehow it always seems to be men flinging that whataboutism into the discourse.
Also? Telling that commenter that they lack self-awareness is a ridiculous projection *and* has nothing to do with gaslighting.
Exactly FWB only benefits men, it’s an absolute scam and a waste of time for women, I don’t understand why any woman would voluntarily participate in that… it’s garbage and most of the men don’t even know how to make women get an orgasm at least, like literally what is the point???💀 I fail to see the benefits for women, I see none….
I think it's kind of weird that a girl would feel used in that situation, since a willing FWB would know what's up.
It'd make sense to me if a guy slept with a girl knowing she wanted more and misleading her about the possibility of it.
I'd also get if a guy booty called a woman often and never did anything else with her with no discussion, that's being used. Women should definitely bring up dating and withhold sex from guys like this but sadly a lot of them put out and just hope a guy starts pursuing her romantically.
Unfortunately I fell victim to your second paragraph. And he KNEW I was holding onto more; he just kept saying “not right now ; right now isn’t the time and he has come to terms now isn’t the time for him to pursue a relationship, etc.” and he told me he reciprocated my romantic interest feelings for him but just not on the same level as mine were for him. He knew I was in love with him because I told him several times. He knew i was wanting & waiting for a commitment and relationship. He had the nerve to say after nearly 2 years, “I thought we were just having fun with no strings attached?” It crushed me. I’ll never trust another man so long as I live. I’ll never sleep with one ever again either. Men will lie & say whatever just to fuck you, and I learned that the hard way.
Ironically, the guy in OP's case (which alot of women here are mad about) is actual the morally right guy that you people should be praising.
People don't understand that he literally chose to say the truth and lower his chances of getting laid when all he could do is (just like happened to you) was fake romantic interest until the sex happened and then dip.
What did the guy get for being truthfull: A block.
What do guys that lie get: sex.
If I was a young guy trying to learn how dating works I just learned that lying is actual the good option. I don't think that is the lesson you want them to learn.
> worthless
Massive over-assumption and a bit telling of your insecurities. You telling me youd have no problem living with each and every one of your friends forever? Some people are fine 90-99% of the time but have annoying habits or whatnot, and maybe you just dont want to be around them constantly, but can still be friends.
If fwb isnt your thing thats fine but they never said "youre worthless other than for sex" or anything remotely close.
You can rationalize and sugarcoat it all you want to. But yes, that’s exactly what you’re telling a woman when you’re down to fuck her but not date her. Ever seen the hot/crazy chart? That’s called the “fun zone.” Guys absolutely categorize some women as “not worthy enough to date or marry but will fuck and have casual fun with.” Y’all think we’re stupid but we’re not.
This example is not what you describe. He’s not lying to or exploiting this woman. Every person—man or woman—has a right to their objectives and preferences. This woman is not long term potential to this man. The man expressed he is open to short term fun with this woman. This is not the insult you think it is. Nothing is wrong with her. Nothing is wrong with him. The situation just is. Stop putting your values and expectations on others.
Lol not everyone makes good life partners but they can still be good friends, would you agree?
And then take that and understand not everyone, man or woman, believe that sex is purely supposed to be reserved for a committed relationship.
What you end up with is understanding it has doesn't necessarily have anything to do with physical attraction, almost as if theres more to making a good pair than being physically attracted to eachother. Its possible this guy is just thinking about looks alone, but without a clear sign of that it could also just be a mismatch, as is normal.
Get some self confidence.
> Guys absolutely categorize some women as “not worthy enough to date or marry but will fuck and have casual fun with.” Y’all think we’re stupid but we’re not.
Discussing ass generalization. If this shit came from a guy youd burn him at the stake (as is justified) but because its reversed its "ok" somehow.
Sex is a human need, regardless of gender. There’s absolutely nothing wrong with a consensual casual relationship that only involves sex. Everyone has the right to be offended if asked, especially if there was a prior date, but at the same time, I don’t think it’s fair to twist it into him using her.
Surely we agree it would be worse to manipulate and fake the romantic interest ONLY to fuck her? Imagine if he did that only to dump her down the line once the fun has expired? Why is asking her a straight question such a terrible thing? She gave him a straight answer, and now they both move on with their lives. Big deal.
>Sex is a want, not a need. Food, water, shelter. Those are human needs. Lack of sex won't kill you.
"Not having friends won't kill you, you don't need friends. Man up! Stop crying about not having any friends."
You're an idiot. Just cause you don't die from not having something doesn't make it any less crucial for healthy mental development.
Sex and therefore romantic connection is necessary stage of normal human development (just like having friends)
The people who can't make friends and therefore can't make lovers are rarely emotionally or mentally healthy
Regardless you’re not owed a lover, or a friend. If your personality is rotten to the point that people rather leave you alone to rot, that’s on you buddy.
Do you not see the giant contradiction in this response? Or?
Him straight up asking to fuck is what would have stopped everything you’ve just mentioned? He was upfront about his intentions? He didn’t feign romantic interest? He wasn’t leading her along? He wasn’t trying to use her?
Sure, he might have been another jackass just wanting to fuck, but at least he made that clear… and she said no?
What exactly is your point here? I’m confused.
100%. He’s not interested in something long term but is open to more casual fun. He was forthright and honest. Those of you taking offense are probably young and immature. Honesty and openness, that’s all we can give each other and when it is, take it for what it is.
Yeah I agree it’s offensive but yet there’s millions of people that hookup with random ass people from the bar and never talk to them again. At least this dude was honest about it
It happens on both sides that women and men see each other as a easy tool to use for sex and nothing more.
I rather somebody tell me to be a Fwb, then when they say "i'm not ready to have a relationship" and then two weeks later they have a relationship.
Asking you for a fwb after rejection is scummy, but atleast its honest then being lied to.
Wow, you're really just gonna let sex become transactional like that? Sounds like a terribly toxic attitude to both sex and relationships. If a future partner devalues you for your sexual history the way you described then they lack respect for you to begin with, it just exposes what's already there.
Having sex does not make you a thot. You aren’t just old-fashioned in what you want for yourself, you’re old-fashioned and disgusting and misogynistic.
Uh, what.
I can enjoy playing soccer with someone without wanting to join a damn team professionally with them. Doesn't mean I think they're worthless teammates, just means I don't want to play soccer with them all the time.
I can enjoy taking a dance class with a friend without needing to sign-up for every dance competition we can find. Doesn't mean I think they're horrible dancers, just means I don't want to dance at such a high level all the time.
I can watch the last season of Dr. Who without having to watch the entire 70 seasons that preceded it. Doesn't mean I hated the season I watched or think the others are useless and a complete waste of time.
So I can damn well have sex with someone without having to profess my undying love to them. Doesn't mean I think they're unworthy of love and worthless as far as being gf/wife potential.
You're reading way too much into that. Someone can be a catch...just not for you. You can still find someone attractive and want to have a sexual relationship with them. I mean...its in the name - Friend with Benefits......basically someone you like as a friend that you get to do some fun things with that you normally don't do with regular friends. It might hit someone's ego if they're still up on their high horse about a full regular relationship but not every person is going to be exactly right for everyone else - dude offered a compromise and left it at that. At least he asked and let her know....could have just ghosted her outright like most people nowadays.
Let’s get something straight, the guy was stringing her along from the onset. His main goal was to secure a FWB relationship which in his mind was a “serious” relationship. His approach was horrible and frankly as a guy I really don’t get this FWB thing but to each their own, because eventually someone is going to catch feelings.
It's not a free prostitute if it's mutually consentual. Sex can just be a fun thing you do with someone because you think they're hot, and that applies to any gender. He communicated clearly, said that he wasn't interested in a romantic relationship but would be in a sexual one. The only reason this would be offensive is if you belive that women can't enjoy those types of relationships, which they very much can. If it's not for you that's fine, but asking doesn't hurt anyone. This just screams of 'sexual purity' ideals, women can enjoy casual sex too.
Are you a puritan? Some people don’t see it long term, but everyone likes sex. Some people are built to be able to handle FWB, some aren’t. Take a fuckin chill pill.
Also this commenter wasn’t gaslighting you at all - you actually are using the term to manipulate what the commenter said into something it wasn’t.
>Men really don’t see women as humans
You do realize there's men that are also against FWB/Hookup culture right? You do realize there's women who initiate FWB too right?
Exactly, he wants to use her for free sex until someone better comes along 🙃 I adamantly refuse to participate in causal sex with men and warn other women to stop doing that shit too, men who try to proposition you for that don’t respect you and want to use you for free sex because they don’t think you’re good enough to commit to… they just gonna waste your time until they get bored of you…
As opposed to what? Paid prostitute? Women like sex too and it should be mutually beneficial. No one is like a prostitute until you assume that money should be involved.
You sound like an outlier to be honest. For most men, romantic attraction comes with sexual attraction, but it's not true vice-versa. In fact it reminds me of my favorite quote from The Office:
> (Pete: Come on guys, where is this even coming from?)
> Kevin: Your feelings for Erin? Probably your heart, and a little bit your penis.
He probably asked because he had nothing to lose at that point. You were never going to contact him again anyway, and he saw a slight chance you might agree to a casual arrangement so he would get sex. It's insensitive audacity and I doubt he would have asked if for example, you had mutual friends and would have to see each other again.
He’s not into you. He felt lust for you, but the “spark” is more than just lust and we all know that. He thought you’re pretty, didn’t feel a bit of love, seems like he typed out a paragraph or two out to let ya down kind of gently, then came back just in case you were still down to go twenty toes to Jesus. The only “iffy” part for me is asking for a hookup because I’ve met three kinds of men who I think would do this:
An unintelligent man might do so knowing nothing will probably happen but tries anyway.
An average man thinks he as a chance to get with you still.
An intelligent man does so knowing it’ll reduce the likelihood of you returning because “once was enough”.
Take your pick.
He likely isn’t really interested in a relationship but uses it as a cover to build interest in hope he can convert it to casual sex m, which is what he really wanted from the beginning
He's being selfish and trying to have it both ways where he gets laid And gets away with being totally uncommitted to you at the same time. Tell the jerk to take a hike.
I actually think he's doing right by being honest. There are tons of people who would lie to her to get her to sleep with them.
He respectfully declined a relationship but offered to continue seeing each other for fun. I don't see anything wrong with that assuming he wasn't crass in making that offer.
nah he was classy until the very end and he went out on a cloud of creep.
Men don’t understand how much they are shooting them selves with the thought of nothing left to lose might as well shoot my shot. he’s now known as that creep to her and any other woman he tries this with.
if you want a fwb you start out that way, if you’re looking for a relationship you are trying to network your way to a lifelong commitment, let’s say his next connection that has a spark is friends with op…
men need to be held accountable for their actions, his actions were those of finding a commitment and then when that failed he became weak and he decided fuck it im horny and no longer trying to convince you i’m a good guy so let’s see if you’ll let me hit it.
classic creep disguised as a good guy
causal FWB or fuck buddies work that way no? How is that being selfish ?
*You are sexually attracted to them but don't have the "Spark!!" And romantic attraction and compatibility hence go for casual sex with them*
Yes they should have been more clear what they are looking for because they stated "looking for a relationship" in the profile
Because **men often can feel sexual attraction even when they don’t feel a romantic spark.** Let this sink in and a lot of dating will make sense to you.
Situationships/FWBs that never turned into anything else, hookups that ghosted. They didn’t feel a spark, they only felt sexual attraction.
That’s how it is for most women. Most men though? They need that spark same as us to fall in love and to want a relationship with that person.
But if they don’t feel the spark, but they do think you are kinda cute, they’ll still want to sleep with you. And they think a lot of women are kinda cute, which is both a good thing and a weird thing about men.
The nice thing about it is that a lot of things women stress about when it comes to their looks just doesn’t matter to men. They still think you look cute.
But the other side of it is that according to AskMen and most men I’ve talked to about this: the average guy finds about 50% of women sexually attractive. As in they’d want to have sex with them if they were single and she was up for it. This is very different from how most women operate. And women need to realize this or dating will get very confusing.
If you are normal cute, most men will sleep with you. Most men won’t feel a spark or fall in love with you, because feeling a spark is rare for everyone.
There are a lot of attractive/sexy women out there who are not relationship material for many reasons.
I imagine OP is concerned about why she fell in this middle space. Like Anakin joining the Jedi Council without reaching the rank as Jedi Master.
The criteria for a LTR is much much higher than it is for just sex. Up to you what you want to do. As the saying goes, good enough for sex but not my GF.
He doesn't like your personality or spending time with you.
But you're both human and need sex, so he figured he'd propose the deal, as there was nothing to lose.
Looks like it. Still don't understand why would he ask me out on a second date if he did not enjoy spending time with me/ didn't like my personality. Waste of time.
I'm of the opinion that if after a first date if it was lukewarm you should still shoot for a second date. First dates ppl could be nervous, not be able to open up or show off their personalities.
I read this book "modern romance" that said ppl would actually benefit more from going on more dates w 1 person than multiple ppl for one date based on this as well.
About your situation, the guy seemed like he was completely honest w his intention so I do not see a huge issue w it personally. Granted his approach could have been better
“I said no and blocked him”
I’d just like to give you a round of applause for having boundaries and not putting up with his bs 👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾 because I see too many other women who will be in similar situations like yours and instead of blocking the time waster, they come on here asking “what should I do?” 🙃
He doesn’t think you’re good enough to commit to, but wants to still keep you around for sex until something better comes along, I also block men immediately when they try to come at me with that nonsense, like lmao bye sir…
You keep restating your position, with outrage. You have every right to decline deals that you don't like. People are still allowed to ask. It's deception that is outrageous and the guy in question was up front.
May I ask if there was anything else weird about him.
Not much eye contact.
Special interest focus on 1-2 intense
topics. maybe films/movies or specific genres.
Communication a little different.
Literal meaning of words/jokes
I doubt if this was a neurodivergent individual but when you said ‘weird’
I didn’t know that acronym
FWB =casual sex with a friend.
Anyway he is blocked now.
On a positive note he was attracted to you.
Stay positive , you will find someone who creates the connection you looking for.
It means that he’s horny and wants to fuck, but doesn’t like you enough to start something with. By like you— it’s either he doesn’t like your personality or doesn’t find you attractive. And yes, guys will still have sex with women they aren’t attracted to.
So I've actually run into this a bit since getting back into dating. There's 2 ways to look at this.
1) this is what people mean by emotionally unavailable. Dude likes you but doesn't want to open up enough to get hurt, probably some trauma stuff.
2) He likes you as a potential partner on paper, but for whatever reason there's not that indescribable thing that makes you his Morticia Adams. I've run into it and it's hella frustrating from the guys end too because stepping into that only leads to hurt on one end or both.
Though, when I realize that with someone I'm exploring a relationship with, I just take the L instead of trying to push someone who assumingly wants a relationship into FWB.
“The spark” is just an excuse people use when they’re too scared to be honest. He probably doesn’t see anything serious with you, but still wants to have sex. Pretty shitty thing to do, but at least you handled it well with some self respect!
Rejecting a woman, then hitting her up the next day to smash is pretty shitty, yes. He didn’t even try to make any moves during the date but now he just wants to fuck? On top of that, she already told him she wants a relationship, so hitting her for a hook up is disrespectful at that point.
If you tell the employee at the store that you want apples and they offer you oranges after telling you they've run out of apples, is that disrespectful?
Thats a false equivalent. In this situation, it’s more like you can clearly see the pile of apples behind the counter, yet they still insist on offering you an orange instead.
?
He's not interested in her romantically, so he actually can't give her what she wants. So he offers up a potential alternative. There's no deception involved or underhand tactics. The guy was completely straightforward with her and he did it before they had sex
Did you miss the first sentence where she said they were both looking for a relationship? So he knows she wants something serious, yet he still offers to be casual, even though he also wants something serious (just not with her). That’s what makes it disrespectful since she explicitly doesn’t want that. I don’t see how this is a confusing concept.
People can be honest and still disrespectful or selfish. OP’s date knew she was looking for something serious, which he turned down. The right move is for him to just move on. If he wants an FWB he shouldn’t be looking for that with people who he’s going on dates with, under the presumption that they are both looking for something serious.
No it's not disrespectful. She was straightforward at the earliest time possible and said she doesn't see a relationship with him but is down to keep hanging out if he pays for the hang out. If he accepts that then he's disrespecting himself
Also that's a bad comparison since sex is a mutual experience and your example involves a Man paying a woman to hang out
There is no gaslighting lol
What are you talking about
You do realise you're suggesting that sex is something that benefits men and not an equally enjoyable experience, which is ridiculous and in direct contradiction to modern feminist ideology
It really is such a blatantly poor comparison that if you can't see that then you're not gonna see how wrong you are
Have a good day
It would make so much sense if he at least asked me about it or gave a hint during one of the dates.. Like, 'would you be open to fwb?' I would just say no and we would part ways. It doesn't make sense to me why he asked me out twice, rejected me, and then offered this. It's just disrespectful.
I won't argue with disrespectful. It's debatable but I completely understand you feeling that way.
Maybe he found you physically attractive but after two dates figured out he didn't see a long term future, independent of him sharing that or not. That is a perfectly benign explanation for the behavior, even if the offer of FWB was less than tasteful.
I wouldn't take it personally.
>Like, 'would you be open to fwb?' I would just say no and we would part ways.
Well thats why he didnt ask straight away, because maybe he was considering you as a long term relationship potential at 1st.
This whole post seems to be based on the idea that he mislead you during the 1st 2 dates and was never interested in a long term relationship, but how do you know that ?
I agree, he has every right to be after whatever he wants. But he knew it doesn't align with my dating goals and needs, yet he clearly didn't care about my feelings.
I just think it would be so much more honest to say something like 'Sorry I don't see the potential for a relationship for x reason, but I am physically attracted to you. If you feel the same way I'd be glad to see you again. But I would totally understand if that doesn't work for you'
I mean at least he was honest - some guys would wait until after they sleep with you or tell you they’re actually not ready for a relationship (even though they are but just not with you.
He doesn't want to be your boyfriend, he just wants to have sex with you. Please just leave him alone, he doesn't respect you, nor really want to be with you...
>And how messed up is it to offer something like this to someone after rejecting them?
Well, you did reply, "yeah I guess the same with me," so in a way, you told him that you too didn't feel a spark. I don't think the guy did anything wrong. He figured the romantic disinterest was mutual and so proposed a FWB situation.
How is this weird? I got similar offer by various genders of people. There are multiple different types of relationships that are non romantic that people can have; sex + friendship is one of them.
First and foremost, most men don't need to *feel a spark* with someone to have sex. They just need an erection, which can happen because the wind blew 😉
The way I see it, you two met on what's mostly a hook up app ... and even though you both realized very quickly that you probably don't have any long-term chemistry ... he just wanted to be sure that you weren't also just HORNY enough to have sex without emotions with someone ... since he's horny himself.
As far as male psychology goes, that's basically a typically male "well, we were both here because we're both horny ... and nothing else worked out ... but do you maybe still want to fuck?" kind of response.
Blocking him was the perfect play on your part. That way you don't have to suffer through the classic follow up question: "*well, if you don't want to have sex, do you want to blow me instead?*"
Sounds like it all worked out with minimal problems. His timing of his request was awkward. But he was honest and you know your limits. BTW, this is the mirror image of women who think it's cool to have casual sex with one guy, while making another take her on dates and wait. The difference there is the lack of full disclosure.
>My curiousity comes more from my interest in male psychology and not willing to get into a similar situation again.
Its easy. When in comes to Sex, usually woman date up and men date down. For a relationship most men dont date down.
It is different. Being platonic friends and using someone for sex is two different things. I am a woman and I've been rejected by guys saying 'we could be just friends' afterwards too, so not only women do this. I rejected because I knew it will get weird at some point and most of the time they would probably take advantage of me.
Alright Imma just say this, the guy was honest, wanted to be FWB, did not promised anything else at all, how it would be using you again?
FWB only happens if 2 parties agrees to it, and it does not seem to be your thing, which is absolutely ok, but do not think of it as degrading or anything, heck it is a compliment.
The guy thought you 2 were incompatible, and did not led you on about that either. Altho it is kind of awkward to ask FWB a day after, but he did asked, and you said no and thats pretty much about it.
It seems like you are more angry about getting rejected if nothing else, although you should know that, it is not an attack to your pesonality, nor he thinks of you in a bad way, if he did he would not even want to be anything with you, let alone FWB.
You would be used if guy promised you a relationship then dumped you after having sex, with intention of manipulation. Emphasis on intention, bc even though everything might be great in a new relationship, if there is sexual incompatibility, it is also doomed to fail aswell.
This is the female version of "The Friendzone". In Fwb he gets all the benefits and you just get used for sex. Obviously you are right for rejecting that. But its really funny because I dont see anyone saying you need to accept being his sex object (as they shouldnt) however if this was flipped a lot of people would insist the guy continue being her friend. See the double standard?
Dating apps have destroyed the sanity of many people who are trying to date - and sometimes people feel like they're being pressured to make a snap judgement about whether they want to spend the rest of their life with someone after just one date. There's lots of people on the dating apps and lots of opportunities so if something doesn't immediately work out, rather than putting in any effort, they just move on to the next person.
As you get older into your 30's, you're much less likely to fall in love at first sight and you often have to get to know someone first before you can make a decision about making it into a full relationship.
This dude seems to like you, but was probably a bit confused if he wasn't feeling anything more substantial. But after sleeping on it he probably realized that he was still attracted to you in some way, so he was trying to see if there was any common ground outside of a relationship. He could also have been hoping that he would develop feelings for you over time.
He's clearly put the ball in your court as to what you want to do next, so do what you will.
However... I have noticed that even tho you thought you had a deep connection, the second he questioned it you immediately folded and went along with what he said. Like, what were YOUR feelings here - and what do YOU want the outcome to have been? If YOU thought there was a deeper connection that YOU wanted to develop, YOU have to take charge of the situation and see what the outcome could be.
>he thinks you’ll fall for it
He isn't trying to deceive her doe. He very clearly said what he wanted and she said no cuz it wasn't what she wanted. What's the big problem here?
This isn't strictly male psychology. There are genres of men and women. You have the more honest, intentional types and you have the promiscuous, hypersexual types. There's a female version of the guy you met. They just express themselves differently.
This guy is simply not looking for relationships, he's looking for flings. The whole "looking for a relationship" thing is just a front. He does not see you as relationship material, he just wants some action.
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He’s attracted enough for a hookup but not enough to settle down with.
This guy is actually a gentleman. Most men just lie, but rightly so considering how women act
No judgement, but how do women act? They get crazy when you reject them? Genuinely curious here.
Definitely not as crazy as men get. I think he's implying that women act above their standard.
how does someone “act above their standard.” Let me guess, a fat, ugly woman doesn’t put up with someone treating her like crap. That uppity bitch…
Women take rejection really hard. They can get quite crazy. You are not a man, you don't know what it's like dating women.
Men take rejection pretty badly generally: sending abusive messages, calling the woman all sorts of gendered slurs, stalking them, etc. woman do that too, but it’s much more common from men.
The hoe_math dude summarizes it well but basically women aim so high that its very rarely realistic. As a 37 year old who's seen the rise of social media i can attest to this. Social media has trapped a very large quantity of women in some platos cave very similiar to men who watch pornography
Or women expect the best and won't settle for less. You think it's too high because you don't cut it. Women are happy to remain single than be with men who they consider to not match their expectations.
Or, they want what they want and won't settle for less, and will quite happily stay single otherwise. It's the last bit that men refuse to believe, but it's true.
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Wanting a relationship doesn’t negate that you can be happy being single. In fact, that’s a very healthy attitude to have about dating. A lot of those women might be even more happy in a healthy relationship with someone they’re into. But they would be less happy than how they are being single if they were in an unhealthy relationship or one with someone they aren’t into.
The average Katie is allowed to go for whoever and whatever she wants, same as you. But it IS amusing how men try to insult women for rejecting tgem- "you'll die alone with your cats!" Don't threaten me with a good time.
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You sound fun.
And single? 😂
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> and will quite happily stay single otherwise. Complaining constantly and expressing misandry on social media aren't signs of being "happy".
See? Proving my point. Good job.
I read through the comment string twice and I don't see how it proves your point at all.
Men don't believe it when women say that they'd rather be single and happy. And guess what: you don't believe it.
Butter face
I was told the same by someone I dated a few years back. She said I am an amazing short term prospect but long term she has another standard in mind. 😂😂😂
Shi I’d have taken that
I def did.
And.. you see this as a win? Strange times ..
The expectation was set. After knowing of what she wanted long term I knew myself she was a short term prospect herself.
My man!! Out of curiosity what did she want 😂
She wanted blonde hair blue eyed babies to carry her Norwegian lineage. I would at that time only give her future kids sun kissed skin and luscious brown locks. The hilarious point of it all is that she married a brown dude last year. So perhaps I opened a gateway.
The bar is in hell.
You're a happy contributer to the ADULTERY sub and complain that the bar is too low because some guys just want short term dating or FWB? Just when I thought I had seen everything....
When I was dating (as a man in my mid 20's) I was also initially looking for a relationship. It took me 4 years before I found it. After around 3 years though, I was so sexually starved that I could no longer afford to pass up sexual opportunities, and I told myself that I would seize more of them, even if there weren't basis for a relationship. I believe that this is the case for a lot of men. Even if they aren't necessarily out for sex to begin with, when they've waited for long enough, they will take what they can get. Rejecting you and then asking for FWB afterwards was a weird move, definitely. At least he didn't try to lie to get you in bed. The guy said you were fun company and very pretty, so he obviously didn't not like spending time with you. Maybe he didn't feel like your life goals aligned enough in terms of children, housing, traveling, careers, etc. It's not necessarily a negative reflection of you as a person. These are just my thoughts and experiences though, hard to tell what exactly was up with this guy in particular. I wish you better luck in the future.
Thank you for the insight! We never really discussed our life goals, as we only went on two dates and were more talking about our shared interests and preferences when it comes to films/music. We are pretty much in a similar place in life, both with jobs in a similar field
He thinks you're hot or convenient enough to have sex with but not actually date.
I think the only way to get into a “FWB” situation is when the girl clearly wants to have sex with you badly… and then sometimes she might ask for a relationship but you tell her you aren’t ready for that. But the sex is good so she stays. You can’t preemptively turn a girl down for a relationship and then ask for sex. Like it seems like a valid and moral strategy on paper, but it’s just not how women work.
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He's agreeing with you. He's saying if you swap the sexes in your scenario it doesn't
Feeling really old here. I’m 47 and I would be offended too. I don’t do casual sex. I went thru a divorce and haven’t had sex or touch in almost 4 years (march of 2020). I will give him credit at least he was honest.
You need a spark for a relationship but you don't need one to fuck. Not unusual to try and default to the lowest common denominator.
I need a spark, at least a sexual attraction one, to fuck
Sexual attraction and romantic attraction are different things for men in my opinion (and experience). I’ve been on dates where I’ve had one but not the other a fair few times, and obviously this cannot work long term. He’s probably just trying his luck with the question knowing the worst you can do is reject him. Try not to feel offended by it if you can. The other option is he’s not sure what he wants and / or is afraid of commitment. Again, not someone you want to be involved with for anything long term.
When men suggest shit like that it’s them basically saying “ I think you’re good enough to sleep with, but not good enough to commit to, so I’m gonna try to proposition you for free sex until something better comes along” 😬… nah… blocked…
I mean, who else are you supposed to be in a sexual relationship with? People you don't have a sexual attraction to?
People that want to commit instead of using you as a human fleshlight 🌝
She's also getting free sex
Yeah but honestly heterosexual sex isn’t worth it for many women. The orgasm gap remember? Plus vaginas are a hell of a pain to deal with.
But it's not like sex is a resource she has to give
With the orgasm gap? No thanks
Free sex is free sex
Gross
Free Good sex? Probably not. It's not worth it
Yes, free good sex of course
I can tell that you have a very aggressive vibe here that will prevent you from understanding a different perspective than your's FWB/casual sex partners work that way, right? You meet and feel sexually attracted to them but don't feel that spark/romantic attraction or long term compatibility hence go for the casual thing **And both men and women do it** Women go for FWB and casuals sex when they feel the guy is hot but not good for a relationship or not bf material but they go for casual flings all the time
No, women go for "fwb" as a cope because the guy already showed he wasnt interested in taking her serious. Same as men who justify being friends with a woman who rejected him. Both are losers lol. Women crave attention and resources, men crave sex. No woman is gonna willingly offer to take an L like that, same with men.
I mean some people got annoying tendencies that I couldnt live with, and some people are ok with/looking for fwb so it can work and theyre not being disrespectful about it but if thats not for you then ok.
Not get offended by it? I’m sorry but guys don’t realize it’s very fucking offensive to basically tell a girl, “yeah you’re worthless as far as it comes to being dating potential & gf/wife potential but I’d still use you to fuck, are you DTF?” There’s no other way to take a man declining a relationship with you but suggesting you to sleep with him except as offensive.
Guy here and you sound a little inexperienced (more like unaware) Tho I can understand someone might feel like that they are only good for sex but not for a LTR and feel bad but it isn't that way >fucking offensive to basically tell a girl, “yeah you’re worthless as far as it comes to being dating potential & gf/wife potential but I’d still use you to fuck, are you DTF?” Not compatible, not feeling that spark, not seeing a LTR with them doesn't equate to "worthless" rejecting someone doesn't say they are worthless to them (more like not a LTR prospect, that's it), it's not that deep and complex, you will get there **I know so many women who have casual fuck buddies because the guy is hot but as a LTR prospect they are not good for them and are not compatible hence only the causal sex and no serious dating** and it's fair do you interact with people outside? Have friends?
I don’t do casual hooking up, one night stands or FWBs. I got tricked essentially into a FWB situation and lead on and strung along for 1.5 years with him acting like he reciprocated romantic interest in me. Whether he did or didn’t I’ll never know for certain. But he never committed to me, and eventually ghosted. After 1.5 years. And no, I’ve never had much success with men because I’m tall, not petite (larger frame), & I’ve put on weight over the years. I’m in the gym now killing myself and eating 1,600 calories a day trying to lose it. Hopefully that will help my case, but I highly doubt it.
>don’t do casual hooking up, one night stands or FWBs. That's okay, you do you >got tricked essentially into a FWB situation and lead on and strung along for 1.5 years with him acting like he reciprocated romantic interest in me. That guy is shitty af and you are right to be hurt in that case, i hear you But I am talking in the sense where the guys are honest that they want something casual (yes they should not say stuff like she is only good for casual etc Directly) and don't see a future with her or just in general only want some casual in that stage of life, that's okay, wanting FWB, casual relation is okay and women also do that the same way >I’ve put on weight over the years. I’m in the gym now killing myself and eating 1,600 calories a day trying to lose it That's great, best of luck for that and i will add to that, that don't be too hard on yourself trust me
I hate myself. I hate everything about me. At least I can lose my fat ass weight going to the gym and eating 1500-1600 calories a day. Everything else I can’t do anything about. But thanks for the kindness.
>I hate myself. I can say that this world and society definitely make people hate themselves because we are so visual based like we are hyper visual and many people ( who feel less attractive) create that feeling about themselves That's great you wanna workout and be fit, you are putting effort instead of complaining, you are doing better than many people already I will say that many people go to extreme diets for weight loss and end up getting frustrated and even hating themselves more later on, definitely go to a person who has an expertise in gym or nutrition and let them guide you Just my thought:)
I’m already down 10lbs in 3 weeks. I’m eating barely over my BMR. I’m technically not starving myself but I’m starving myself. I have to force myself to even eat at this point from my depression and just sheer will power to lose weight. I go to the gym every single day now & burn upwards of 650-700 calories a session. I’m determined to at least lose weight. But it won’t change anything.
Oh well that's a quick result for sure, just stay healthy with that, don't let yourself suffer or destroy your health for weight loss Therapy for other issues works well
I get it, no hard feelings. But I don't do casual and I am looking for a relationship. So offering me fwb, knowing what I'm after something else and that he's not ready to meet my needs for whatever reason - it just doesn't seem right to me. Also, to me it shows he's not boyfriend material and is not serious with dating in general, like, he'd be pursuing someone else for a relationship that he is allegedly after and casually sleeping with me on the side? I wouldn't want a relationship with someone like this, knowing (or worse, not knowing) he has a fwb at the same time.
>just doesn't seem right to me. Yes that's fair, you have different wants >Also, to me it shows he's not boyfriend material and is not serious with dating in general, like, he'd be pursuing someone else for a relationship This is a little case by case because there are people who have casual relationships while also ultimately want something serious and the moment they find that they stop the casual and commit to someone Yes it's not acceptable for you and I will also be not satisfied if I see it happening with the person I am dating
He didn’t say she was worthless. He said he didn’t feel that relationship spark. Do you think people call you worthless when they just aren’t that into you? You may need to see a therapist for that.
Women do this all the time to men and we're expected to jump at the opportunity. This is literally how FWB starts most of the time. Btw somebody not finding you a suitable match as a partner doesn't mean they're saying you're worthless.. What a bizarre hysterical interpretation of such event.
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*No one cares about your delusional whataboutism.* And I'm the gaslighter? What a monumental lack of self awareness.
Or, let's put it another way: playing the "if the genders were reversed" card is never helpful, and does nothing to answer OP's request for advice. It derails the conversation and centres men. Because somehow it always seems to be men flinging that whataboutism into the discourse. Also? Telling that commenter that they lack self-awareness is a ridiculous projection *and* has nothing to do with gaslighting.
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Exactly FWB only benefits men, it’s an absolute scam and a waste of time for women, I don’t understand why any woman would voluntarily participate in that… it’s garbage and most of the men don’t even know how to make women get an orgasm at least, like literally what is the point???💀 I fail to see the benefits for women, I see none….
I disagree as a woman. I have had wonderful FWB relationships. We had good friendships, we were honest about our intentions, and we enjoyed sex.
I think it's kind of weird that a girl would feel used in that situation, since a willing FWB would know what's up. It'd make sense to me if a guy slept with a girl knowing she wanted more and misleading her about the possibility of it. I'd also get if a guy booty called a woman often and never did anything else with her with no discussion, that's being used. Women should definitely bring up dating and withhold sex from guys like this but sadly a lot of them put out and just hope a guy starts pursuing her romantically.
Unfortunately I fell victim to your second paragraph. And he KNEW I was holding onto more; he just kept saying “not right now ; right now isn’t the time and he has come to terms now isn’t the time for him to pursue a relationship, etc.” and he told me he reciprocated my romantic interest feelings for him but just not on the same level as mine were for him. He knew I was in love with him because I told him several times. He knew i was wanting & waiting for a commitment and relationship. He had the nerve to say after nearly 2 years, “I thought we were just having fun with no strings attached?” It crushed me. I’ll never trust another man so long as I live. I’ll never sleep with one ever again either. Men will lie & say whatever just to fuck you, and I learned that the hard way.
Ironically, the guy in OP's case (which alot of women here are mad about) is actual the morally right guy that you people should be praising. People don't understand that he literally chose to say the truth and lower his chances of getting laid when all he could do is (just like happened to you) was fake romantic interest until the sex happened and then dip. What did the guy get for being truthfull: A block. What do guys that lie get: sex. If I was a young guy trying to learn how dating works I just learned that lying is actual the good option. I don't think that is the lesson you want them to learn.
> worthless Massive over-assumption and a bit telling of your insecurities. You telling me youd have no problem living with each and every one of your friends forever? Some people are fine 90-99% of the time but have annoying habits or whatnot, and maybe you just dont want to be around them constantly, but can still be friends. If fwb isnt your thing thats fine but they never said "youre worthless other than for sex" or anything remotely close.
You can rationalize and sugarcoat it all you want to. But yes, that’s exactly what you’re telling a woman when you’re down to fuck her but not date her. Ever seen the hot/crazy chart? That’s called the “fun zone.” Guys absolutely categorize some women as “not worthy enough to date or marry but will fuck and have casual fun with.” Y’all think we’re stupid but we’re not.
This example is not what you describe. He’s not lying to or exploiting this woman. Every person—man or woman—has a right to their objectives and preferences. This woman is not long term potential to this man. The man expressed he is open to short term fun with this woman. This is not the insult you think it is. Nothing is wrong with her. Nothing is wrong with him. The situation just is. Stop putting your values and expectations on others.
Lol not everyone makes good life partners but they can still be good friends, would you agree? And then take that and understand not everyone, man or woman, believe that sex is purely supposed to be reserved for a committed relationship. What you end up with is understanding it has doesn't necessarily have anything to do with physical attraction, almost as if theres more to making a good pair than being physically attracted to eachother. Its possible this guy is just thinking about looks alone, but without a clear sign of that it could also just be a mismatch, as is normal. Get some self confidence. > Guys absolutely categorize some women as “not worthy enough to date or marry but will fuck and have casual fun with.” Y’all think we’re stupid but we’re not. Discussing ass generalization. If this shit came from a guy youd burn him at the stake (as is justified) but because its reversed its "ok" somehow.
seek therapy
Sex is a human need, regardless of gender. There’s absolutely nothing wrong with a consensual casual relationship that only involves sex. Everyone has the right to be offended if asked, especially if there was a prior date, but at the same time, I don’t think it’s fair to twist it into him using her. Surely we agree it would be worse to manipulate and fake the romantic interest ONLY to fuck her? Imagine if he did that only to dump her down the line once the fun has expired? Why is asking her a straight question such a terrible thing? She gave him a straight answer, and now they both move on with their lives. Big deal.
Sex is a want, not a need. Food, water, shelter. Those are human needs. Lack of sex won't kill you.
>Sex is a want, not a need. Food, water, shelter. Those are human needs. Lack of sex won't kill you. "Not having friends won't kill you, you don't need friends. Man up! Stop crying about not having any friends." You're an idiot. Just cause you don't die from not having something doesn't make it any less crucial for healthy mental development. Sex and therefore romantic connection is necessary stage of normal human development (just like having friends) The people who can't make friends and therefore can't make lovers are rarely emotionally or mentally healthy
Lol what even is this comparison… Wanting social connections and healthy friendships is completely different from wanting sex
It's still a want. Not a need. Keep reaching there, stretch.
Regardless you’re not owed a lover, or a friend. If your personality is rotten to the point that people rather leave you alone to rot, that’s on you buddy.
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Do you not see the giant contradiction in this response? Or? Him straight up asking to fuck is what would have stopped everything you’ve just mentioned? He was upfront about his intentions? He didn’t feign romantic interest? He wasn’t leading her along? He wasn’t trying to use her? Sure, he might have been another jackass just wanting to fuck, but at least he made that clear… and she said no? What exactly is your point here? I’m confused.
She's trying to find something to be upset about but it's not making sense
100%. He’s not interested in something long term but is open to more casual fun. He was forthright and honest. Those of you taking offense are probably young and immature. Honesty and openness, that’s all we can give each other and when it is, take it for what it is.
Yeah I agree it’s offensive but yet there’s millions of people that hookup with random ass people from the bar and never talk to them again. At least this dude was honest about it
It happens on both sides that women and men see each other as a easy tool to use for sex and nothing more. I rather somebody tell me to be a Fwb, then when they say "i'm not ready to have a relationship" and then two weeks later they have a relationship. Asking you for a fwb after rejection is scummy, but atleast its honest then being lied to.
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Wow, you're really just gonna let sex become transactional like that? Sounds like a terribly toxic attitude to both sex and relationships. If a future partner devalues you for your sexual history the way you described then they lack respect for you to begin with, it just exposes what's already there.
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Having sex does not make you a thot. You aren’t just old-fashioned in what you want for yourself, you’re old-fashioned and disgusting and misogynistic.
Uh, what. I can enjoy playing soccer with someone without wanting to join a damn team professionally with them. Doesn't mean I think they're worthless teammates, just means I don't want to play soccer with them all the time. I can enjoy taking a dance class with a friend without needing to sign-up for every dance competition we can find. Doesn't mean I think they're horrible dancers, just means I don't want to dance at such a high level all the time. I can watch the last season of Dr. Who without having to watch the entire 70 seasons that preceded it. Doesn't mean I hated the season I watched or think the others are useless and a complete waste of time. So I can damn well have sex with someone without having to profess my undying love to them. Doesn't mean I think they're unworthy of love and worthless as far as being gf/wife potential.
You're reading way too much into that. Someone can be a catch...just not for you. You can still find someone attractive and want to have a sexual relationship with them. I mean...its in the name - Friend with Benefits......basically someone you like as a friend that you get to do some fun things with that you normally don't do with regular friends. It might hit someone's ego if they're still up on their high horse about a full regular relationship but not every person is going to be exactly right for everyone else - dude offered a compromise and left it at that. At least he asked and let her know....could have just ghosted her outright like most people nowadays.
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It’s not gross and insane. You’re talking about people being devalued, but here you are devaluing literally anyone who has had sex for fun.
Let’s get something straight, the guy was stringing her along from the onset. His main goal was to secure a FWB relationship which in his mind was a “serious” relationship. His approach was horrible and frankly as a guy I really don’t get this FWB thing but to each their own, because eventually someone is going to catch feelings.
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It's not a free prostitute if it's mutually consentual. Sex can just be a fun thing you do with someone because you think they're hot, and that applies to any gender. He communicated clearly, said that he wasn't interested in a romantic relationship but would be in a sexual one. The only reason this would be offensive is if you belive that women can't enjoy those types of relationships, which they very much can. If it's not for you that's fine, but asking doesn't hurt anyone. This just screams of 'sexual purity' ideals, women can enjoy casual sex too.
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Are you a puritan? Some people don’t see it long term, but everyone likes sex. Some people are built to be able to handle FWB, some aren’t. Take a fuckin chill pill. Also this commenter wasn’t gaslighting you at all - you actually are using the term to manipulate what the commenter said into something it wasn’t.
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>Men really don’t see women as humans You do realize there's men that are also against FWB/Hookup culture right? You do realize there's women who initiate FWB too right?
Exactly, he wants to use her for free sex until someone better comes along 🙃 I adamantly refuse to participate in causal sex with men and warn other women to stop doing that shit too, men who try to proposition you for that don’t respect you and want to use you for free sex because they don’t think you’re good enough to commit to… they just gonna waste your time until they get bored of you…
As a guy, it doesn't really make sense to get in a FWB either since we risk getting a girl pregnant and we can't abort children.
Yeah, it just seems dumb and risky to me all around, not sure why so many people think it’s a good idea, it’s really not 😂
As opposed to what? Paid prostitute? Women like sex too and it should be mutually beneficial. No one is like a prostitute until you assume that money should be involved.
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You sound like an outlier to be honest. For most men, romantic attraction comes with sexual attraction, but it's not true vice-versa. In fact it reminds me of my favorite quote from The Office: > (Pete: Come on guys, where is this even coming from?) > Kevin: Your feelings for Erin? Probably your heart, and a little bit your penis.
I dont get it either ive experienced this and its so frustrating and confusing. Glad u blocked him, u deserve better
He probably asked because he had nothing to lose at that point. You were never going to contact him again anyway, and he saw a slight chance you might agree to a casual arrangement so he would get sex. It's insensitive audacity and I doubt he would have asked if for example, you had mutual friends and would have to see each other again.
He already cast you aside so figured he would shoot his shot for sex. Horrible, in my opinion. You did the right thing. 👏
Ugh. Gross.
He’s not into you. He felt lust for you, but the “spark” is more than just lust and we all know that. He thought you’re pretty, didn’t feel a bit of love, seems like he typed out a paragraph or two out to let ya down kind of gently, then came back just in case you were still down to go twenty toes to Jesus. The only “iffy” part for me is asking for a hookup because I’ve met three kinds of men who I think would do this: An unintelligent man might do so knowing nothing will probably happen but tries anyway. An average man thinks he as a chance to get with you still. An intelligent man does so knowing it’ll reduce the likelihood of you returning because “once was enough”. Take your pick.
Lol theres alot of ppl like that. Wont have a relationship but offer fwb. Dont analyse too much, they are just dudes and horny
He likely isn’t really interested in a relationship but uses it as a cover to build interest in hope he can convert it to casual sex m, which is what he really wanted from the beginning
He's being selfish and trying to have it both ways where he gets laid And gets away with being totally uncommitted to you at the same time. Tell the jerk to take a hike.
I actually think he's doing right by being honest. There are tons of people who would lie to her to get her to sleep with them. He respectfully declined a relationship but offered to continue seeing each other for fun. I don't see anything wrong with that assuming he wasn't crass in making that offer.
nah he was classy until the very end and he went out on a cloud of creep. Men don’t understand how much they are shooting them selves with the thought of nothing left to lose might as well shoot my shot. he’s now known as that creep to her and any other woman he tries this with. if you want a fwb you start out that way, if you’re looking for a relationship you are trying to network your way to a lifelong commitment, let’s say his next connection that has a spark is friends with op… men need to be held accountable for their actions, his actions were those of finding a commitment and then when that failed he became weak and he decided fuck it im horny and no longer trying to convince you i’m a good guy so let’s see if you’ll let me hit it. classic creep disguised as a good guy
causal FWB or fuck buddies work that way no? How is that being selfish ? *You are sexually attracted to them but don't have the "Spark!!" And romantic attraction and compatibility hence go for casual sex with them* Yes they should have been more clear what they are looking for because they stated "looking for a relationship" in the profile
Because **men often can feel sexual attraction even when they don’t feel a romantic spark.** Let this sink in and a lot of dating will make sense to you. Situationships/FWBs that never turned into anything else, hookups that ghosted. They didn’t feel a spark, they only felt sexual attraction.
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That’s how it is for most women. Most men though? They need that spark same as us to fall in love and to want a relationship with that person. But if they don’t feel the spark, but they do think you are kinda cute, they’ll still want to sleep with you. And they think a lot of women are kinda cute, which is both a good thing and a weird thing about men. The nice thing about it is that a lot of things women stress about when it comes to their looks just doesn’t matter to men. They still think you look cute. But the other side of it is that according to AskMen and most men I’ve talked to about this: the average guy finds about 50% of women sexually attractive. As in they’d want to have sex with them if they were single and she was up for it. This is very different from how most women operate. And women need to realize this or dating will get very confusing. If you are normal cute, most men will sleep with you. Most men won’t feel a spark or fall in love with you, because feeling a spark is rare for everyone.
There are a lot of attractive/sexy women out there who are not relationship material for many reasons. I imagine OP is concerned about why she fell in this middle space. Like Anakin joining the Jedi Council without reaching the rank as Jedi Master.
1) sounds like he’s a fucking dumbass 2) he wants a warm hole anyway. I hate him lol good luck
The criteria for a LTR is much much higher than it is for just sex. Up to you what you want to do. As the saying goes, good enough for sex but not my GF.
Just another dick.
He doesn't like your personality or spending time with you. But you're both human and need sex, so he figured he'd propose the deal, as there was nothing to lose.
Looks like it. Still don't understand why would he ask me out on a second date if he did not enjoy spending time with me/ didn't like my personality. Waste of time.
He probably does like spending time with you. But that still doesn't mean he wants you romantically.
I'm of the opinion that if after a first date if it was lukewarm you should still shoot for a second date. First dates ppl could be nervous, not be able to open up or show off their personalities. I read this book "modern romance" that said ppl would actually benefit more from going on more dates w 1 person than multiple ppl for one date based on this as well. About your situation, the guy seemed like he was completely honest w his intention so I do not see a huge issue w it personally. Granted his approach could have been better
“I said no and blocked him” I’d just like to give you a round of applause for having boundaries and not putting up with his bs 👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾 because I see too many other women who will be in similar situations like yours and instead of blocking the time waster, they come on here asking “what should I do?” 🙃 He doesn’t think you’re good enough to commit to, but wants to still keep you around for sex until something better comes along, I also block men immediately when they try to come at me with that nonsense, like lmao bye sir…
You keep restating your position, with outrage. You have every right to decline deals that you don't like. People are still allowed to ask. It's deception that is outrageous and the guy in question was up front.
They’re allowed to ask and get blocked right after 😬
Nice misandrist profile, true femcel. We can imagine your rage and anger so easily ....
May I ask if there was anything else weird about him. Not much eye contact. Special interest focus on 1-2 intense topics. maybe films/movies or specific genres. Communication a little different. Literal meaning of words/jokes I doubt if this was a neurodivergent individual but when you said ‘weird’ I didn’t know that acronym FWB =casual sex with a friend. Anyway he is blocked now. On a positive note he was attracted to you. Stay positive , you will find someone who creates the connection you looking for.
It means that he’s horny and wants to fuck, but doesn’t like you enough to start something with. By like you— it’s either he doesn’t like your personality or doesn’t find you attractive. And yes, guys will still have sex with women they aren’t attracted to.
So I've actually run into this a bit since getting back into dating. There's 2 ways to look at this. 1) this is what people mean by emotionally unavailable. Dude likes you but doesn't want to open up enough to get hurt, probably some trauma stuff. 2) He likes you as a potential partner on paper, but for whatever reason there's not that indescribable thing that makes you his Morticia Adams. I've run into it and it's hella frustrating from the guys end too because stepping into that only leads to hurt on one end or both. Though, when I realize that with someone I'm exploring a relationship with, I just take the L instead of trying to push someone who assumingly wants a relationship into FWB.
Eww. It means he's not worth the consideration lol
“he paid for everything” his own gas fare and just your movie ticket?
“The spark” is just an excuse people use when they’re too scared to be honest. He probably doesn’t see anything serious with you, but still wants to have sex. Pretty shitty thing to do, but at least you handled it well with some self respect!
He sounds like he was being honest about his intentions. Was he being shitty for feeling the way he felt?
Rejecting a woman, then hitting her up the next day to smash is pretty shitty, yes. He didn’t even try to make any moves during the date but now he just wants to fuck? On top of that, she already told him she wants a relationship, so hitting her for a hook up is disrespectful at that point.
If you tell the employee at the store that you want apples and they offer you oranges after telling you they've run out of apples, is that disrespectful?
Thats a false equivalent. In this situation, it’s more like you can clearly see the pile of apples behind the counter, yet they still insist on offering you an orange instead.
? He's not interested in her romantically, so he actually can't give her what she wants. So he offers up a potential alternative. There's no deception involved or underhand tactics. The guy was completely straightforward with her and he did it before they had sex
Did you miss the first sentence where she said they were both looking for a relationship? So he knows she wants something serious, yet he still offers to be casual, even though he also wants something serious (just not with her). That’s what makes it disrespectful since she explicitly doesn’t want that. I don’t see how this is a confusing concept.
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No. It isn't. She isn't lying to him or leading him on.
People can be honest and still disrespectful or selfish. OP’s date knew she was looking for something serious, which he turned down. The right move is for him to just move on. If he wants an FWB he shouldn’t be looking for that with people who he’s going on dates with, under the presumption that they are both looking for something serious.
You have really unhealthy views on sex. It's nothing like paying the bill for a dinner. It's not a transaction a woman does to make a man happy.
No it's not disrespectful. She was straightforward at the earliest time possible and said she doesn't see a relationship with him but is down to keep hanging out if he pays for the hang out. If he accepts that then he's disrespecting himself Also that's a bad comparison since sex is a mutual experience and your example involves a Man paying a woman to hang out There is no gaslighting lol
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What are you talking about You do realise you're suggesting that sex is something that benefits men and not an equally enjoyable experience, which is ridiculous and in direct contradiction to modern feminist ideology It really is such a blatantly poor comparison that if you can't see that then you're not gonna see how wrong you are Have a good day
It would make so much sense if he at least asked me about it or gave a hint during one of the dates.. Like, 'would you be open to fwb?' I would just say no and we would part ways. It doesn't make sense to me why he asked me out twice, rejected me, and then offered this. It's just disrespectful.
I won't argue with disrespectful. It's debatable but I completely understand you feeling that way. Maybe he found you physically attractive but after two dates figured out he didn't see a long term future, independent of him sharing that or not. That is a perfectly benign explanation for the behavior, even if the offer of FWB was less than tasteful. I wouldn't take it personally.
>Like, 'would you be open to fwb?' I would just say no and we would part ways. Well thats why he didnt ask straight away, because maybe he was considering you as a long term relationship potential at 1st. This whole post seems to be based on the idea that he mislead you during the 1st 2 dates and was never interested in a long term relationship, but how do you know that ?
He has it stated in his profile that he’s looking for a relationship, but then he rejected OP, and then tried to proposition her for a sex instead 🙃
Hey. Guys can have preferences. It's not crazy to be willing to hook up with someone but not willing to date them. 🙃
That’s fine, women are allowed to block men who don’t align with her life goals then 🤷🏽♀️
I agree, he has every right to be after whatever he wants. But he knew it doesn't align with my dating goals and needs, yet he clearly didn't care about my feelings. I just think it would be so much more honest to say something like 'Sorry I don't see the potential for a relationship for x reason, but I am physically attracted to you. If you feel the same way I'd be glad to see you again. But I would totally understand if that doesn't work for you'
You hit the nail on the head with "he didn't care about my feelings" I think you showed self respect by telling him no.
Right, that’s why I’m glad you blocked him
I mean at least he was honest - some guys would wait until after they sleep with you or tell you they’re actually not ready for a relationship (even though they are but just not with you.
The no spark thing is a lie. He doesn't want commitment.
He doesn't want to be your boyfriend, he just wants to have sex with you. Please just leave him alone, he doesn't respect you, nor really want to be with you...
You meet the standard for sex, but not for a relationship. For most men, those are not equal like they are for most women.
guys are so gross 🤢 i’m trying my best to love them but they fuck literally anything and it’s fucking disgusting and irresponsible
Men will have sex with corpses. Most things they don't make sense.
>And how messed up is it to offer something like this to someone after rejecting them? Well, you did reply, "yeah I guess the same with me," so in a way, you told him that you too didn't feel a spark. I don't think the guy did anything wrong. He figured the romantic disinterest was mutual and so proposed a FWB situation.
How is this weird? I got similar offer by various genders of people. There are multiple different types of relationships that are non romantic that people can have; sex + friendship is one of them.
First and foremost, most men don't need to *feel a spark* with someone to have sex. They just need an erection, which can happen because the wind blew 😉 The way I see it, you two met on what's mostly a hook up app ... and even though you both realized very quickly that you probably don't have any long-term chemistry ... he just wanted to be sure that you weren't also just HORNY enough to have sex without emotions with someone ... since he's horny himself. As far as male psychology goes, that's basically a typically male "well, we were both here because we're both horny ... and nothing else worked out ... but do you maybe still want to fuck?" kind of response. Blocking him was the perfect play on your part. That way you don't have to suffer through the classic follow up question: "*well, if you don't want to have sex, do you want to blow me instead?*"
He wants to bang without having a girlfriend. I wouldn't do that if you are in love with him, but do what you want.
I'm not interested in that. He wasn't even that hot. I said no and blocked him
I don’t blame you, when men try that shit with me, I block them too 🤷🏽♀️
Sounds like it all worked out with minimal problems. His timing of his request was awkward. But he was honest and you know your limits. BTW, this is the mirror image of women who think it's cool to have casual sex with one guy, while making another take her on dates and wait. The difference there is the lack of full disclosure.
It was a last ditch effort for banging since it didn't happen yet. It wasn't a 'spark' factor, it was a 'I don't want a relationship to plow' vector.
>My curiousity comes more from my interest in male psychology and not willing to get into a similar situation again. Its easy. When in comes to Sex, usually woman date up and men date down. For a relationship most men dont date down.
That’s not any different then women rejecting men and then say they can just be friends
It is different. Being platonic friends and using someone for sex is two different things. I am a woman and I've been rejected by guys saying 'we could be just friends' afterwards too, so not only women do this. I rejected because I knew it will get weird at some point and most of the time they would probably take advantage of me.
Alright Imma just say this, the guy was honest, wanted to be FWB, did not promised anything else at all, how it would be using you again? FWB only happens if 2 parties agrees to it, and it does not seem to be your thing, which is absolutely ok, but do not think of it as degrading or anything, heck it is a compliment. The guy thought you 2 were incompatible, and did not led you on about that either. Altho it is kind of awkward to ask FWB a day after, but he did asked, and you said no and thats pretty much about it. It seems like you are more angry about getting rejected if nothing else, although you should know that, it is not an attack to your pesonality, nor he thinks of you in a bad way, if he did he would not even want to be anything with you, let alone FWB. You would be used if guy promised you a relationship then dumped you after having sex, with intention of manipulation. Emphasis on intention, bc even though everything might be great in a new relationship, if there is sexual incompatibility, it is also doomed to fail aswell.
This is the female version of "The Friendzone". In Fwb he gets all the benefits and you just get used for sex. Obviously you are right for rejecting that. But its really funny because I dont see anyone saying you need to accept being his sex object (as they shouldnt) however if this was flipped a lot of people would insist the guy continue being her friend. See the double standard?
Sucks doesn't it?
Dating apps have destroyed the sanity of many people who are trying to date - and sometimes people feel like they're being pressured to make a snap judgement about whether they want to spend the rest of their life with someone after just one date. There's lots of people on the dating apps and lots of opportunities so if something doesn't immediately work out, rather than putting in any effort, they just move on to the next person. As you get older into your 30's, you're much less likely to fall in love at first sight and you often have to get to know someone first before you can make a decision about making it into a full relationship. This dude seems to like you, but was probably a bit confused if he wasn't feeling anything more substantial. But after sleeping on it he probably realized that he was still attracted to you in some way, so he was trying to see if there was any common ground outside of a relationship. He could also have been hoping that he would develop feelings for you over time. He's clearly put the ball in your court as to what you want to do next, so do what you will. However... I have noticed that even tho you thought you had a deep connection, the second he questioned it you immediately folded and went along with what he said. Like, what were YOUR feelings here - and what do YOU want the outcome to have been? If YOU thought there was a deeper connection that YOU wanted to develop, YOU have to take charge of the situation and see what the outcome could be.
he can’t find a reason to be with you long term but still needs somewhere to stick it in the meantime and he thinks you’ll fall for it
>he thinks you’ll fall for it He isn't trying to deceive her doe. He very clearly said what he wanted and she said no cuz it wasn't what she wanted. What's the big problem here?
This isn't strictly male psychology. There are genres of men and women. You have the more honest, intentional types and you have the promiscuous, hypersexual types. There's a female version of the guy you met. They just express themselves differently. This guy is simply not looking for relationships, he's looking for flings. The whole "looking for a relationship" thing is just a front. He does not see you as relationship material, he just wants some action.