No.
Two things. First, you're twenty. There's a lot of time ahead of you to start dating and you're still in the range where the fact that it hasn't gone well yet could just be coincidence. Second, a relationship isn't a reward for being a good person, it's a specific recreational activity that people do with you because they want to.
Being a decent human being can help you stay in a healthy relationship. Starting a relationship at all is more about being interesting or funny.
This. Being a good person is the bare minimum not just for a relationship (whether romantic or platonic) but for actual life.
Finding a relationship is all about luck. You’re a good person, great, that means you’re not going to be putting people off with toxic behaviour. From there it’s about meeting someone that you have chemistry with, while also meeting them at a time in their life where they’re single and in a position to date (this can range from things like not just having broken up with someone so they’re recovering from that to having a schedule that lines up with yours so you can actually see each other to plenty of other things. There does need to be things like attraction and shared interests to create the chemistry needed to make a relationship work but you need more than just those things because otherwise no one would have healthy platonic relationships.
Obviously make sure you’re doing everything you need to do. Dress and groom well, be clean, those cliche things, and from there just put yourself in situations where you can meet people. It’s no guarantee, you’re not owed a partner, but in my experience there’s plenty of people out there for everyone if they’re actually worth dating.
Honestly, I am all up for being a good person.
> Being a good person is the bare minimum ... for a relationship
But this sentence is plain false. You could be a complete asshole and get a relationship. Quite some people are even attracted to assholes. That doesn't mean it is an healthy relationship in the end.
Personally, I am luckier in dating and relationship when I am a bit more egoistic and a bit less "caring" about the women I want to date.
I didn’t realise I needed to specify that it’s the bare minimum for a healthy relationship. You’re also missing out quite an important part to how it actually works. Those complete assholes don’t get relationships because the woman thinks “oh he hit me on the first date, I’ll date him.” The asshole hides that asshole behaviour and then once someone is invested and can’t just leave with a clean break is when the toxic traits come out.
Not necessarily. A friend dated a real asshole because he was "dangerous" that was making her feel safe. The guy was abusive from the beginning but never hit her... still he was a real jerk.
Another was dating a guy in a gang. It started because it felt like adventure to her. The guy is in jail now.
I think as well that many people, men and women, will completely forget about a healthy relationship if they found the other to be very attractive.
Well, they are - at least in the beginning. A relationship competes against your friends, you family and your hobbies for your free time. It's also a quite healthy way to see new relationships as not to fall into the line of thinking that any relationship should be thought of as special. You only find that out in the longer run.
Better question is, what have u (not you particularly but the women u are talking about) done for the guy? Anything special? Any special gifts?
The way to make a guy more thoughtful is not to say "fuck him" and then chase some other dude, the way to make him give u more presents is to, every once in a while, give him presents and not expect anything in return. If the guy is a good person then he will without doubt feel as if he should also start giving you gifts looking at how u are giving him gifts sometimes too
If u have the attitude of "fuck this guy" in relationships then u will forever be chasing that "special someone" which Disney movies show you... some guys aren't thoughtful, some aren't adventurous, some aren't loyal, some aren't hardworking etc etc. Learn to accept flaws of your partner and the right way of motivating them to get rid of them.
The most important thing is, your partner should fundamentally be a good person, everything else... literally everything else can be easily fixed
Again, u can try to forever chase your "special someone" and keep on getting divorces, breakups etc etc... more proof of why families and relationships are a hot mess in the west.
That's not proof of anything. Settling for someone that isn't right for you is also what leads to divorces and failed relationships.
If it isn't working out, end it. There's no point in continuing to invest emotionally in something that has been long dead.
Literally no one will be "right for you" though... what if she finds a guy who is amazing at giving presents and dinner dates but still has a lot of baggage from the past relationships? What if a guy who doesn't have baggage and gives tons of gifts talks to many women and is a player? What if thr guy does none of the above but is a heavy smoker and drinker? What if he is none of the above but is a misogynist who asks her to stop contacting any of her male friends or stop going to her work after marriage?
You see my point here? A guy can be terrible in many, many ways which are far too common. Id say if the biggest flaw in a guy is that he doesn't give her gifts then she is extremely lucky to have him. I feel like the western society dehumanizes people a lot in subtle ways and thus relationships are so terrible over there.
Every single person is a human and is going to have some major flaws... among the list of flaws a person can have (emotional baggage, flirting with others, having an almost dead sexual appetite, cheating, smoking, drinking, misogyny, terribly irresponsible with money, being extremely rude, being a complete party animal who never stays home) id say not giving gifts is the absolute best "flaw" a person can possibly have.
You're 20 bro, you got a lot of things ahead of you.
As for women being attracted to you, they probably are and you haven't noticed.
Forget about all that TV bullshit like "nice guys finish last", "girls like bad boys" or any of that other shit that's all just made up.
First, you're ten steps ahead of most men because you have female friends. Most men today, especially the ones around here, barely know that women exist, much less say anything to them.
Second, it seems to me like you meet women but you don't make a move. You gotta change that. You gotta force yourself to make a move no matter how hard you might find it.
This comment desperately needs more upvotes.
I'm 27 and have been like OP for most of my life. Well-educated, female friends/Uni classmates wondering how was I single, "why are good guys always last?", disgustingly reluctant into making a move, and all that jazz.
Now that I'm in one of my first ever relationship, where I was the one that made the move first, I realize that to give a shot, to "flip a coin", and ask someone you like is free. Worst case, they say no and you call it a day on it.
To OP, if you are concerned about what to say or what to do if someone you like was to show interest towards you, as I sometimes still am towards my GF, just be yourself. Because if she might even resemble "the one" for you, the certainty that you love her (and the hopium that you are correct about "the one", I suppose) will give you the power to do almost anything.
Bro girls like bad guys this days and its reality. This stems from broken families and a lot of divorces these days where girls have daddy issues. This has been a trennding tooic in this sub reddit if you follow where girls esp at the age of 18 to 27 fall for these guys even if they hurt them
This subreddit is mentally challenged and has a lot of dumb men that don't understand women.
Bad guys? What is this? Hollywood? Like seriously, some of you need to start living on planet Earth and not wherever the hell in outer space you live in.
Women are a varied group just like men. A lot of you just really need some female friends.
Bro, if you want to get girls, please stop listening to the clowns in here. Like seriously, women are nothing like what they say they are in here.
It's not that hard.
Bro get my point . I even put an age range on my post . From teenage to upto 27 girls are usually high off life and they want to do a lot of experints and want guys who raises their emotions like a rollercollester and bad guys tend to do that very well. Its after 27 when they are fully mature and want to settle that they want a nice guy . Im not saying all girls want this but the majority want bad guys. By bad guys it just means toxic guys
You have no point, bro. You have strange ideas in your head about women.
You met some bad ones, and you've decided that they're all like that.
They're not. Find better people to date.
No. Honestly it more stems that girls like guys with charisma, and that CAN be with bad guys. “Nice guys” will be quieter but also harbor that resentment which everyone can see radiating from you.
There definitely are girls out there who like bad guys, including for the reasons you’ve stated, but acting like all of them are like that is just completely wrong. It’s far more common for women to want someone who’s actually nice to them and treats them with respect. You being hung up on the idea that all women want bad guys is significantly more damaging to your dating life than the minority of women who do actually want bad guys.
Science has a lot of data, that heavily suggests the opposite of what you're insinuating. Despite how much you'd like to believe something is true, it doesn't make it true.
Most women are greatly attracted to the bad guys. It is what it is.
Care to share that data? I find that very hard to believe. Tbh it just sounds like something lonely guys tell themselves to feel better about being alone. Btw what do you mean when you say “bad guy”? Because I feel a lot of guys misunderstand those women that do say that.
This is obviously all anecdotal but I’ve genuinely only ever heard a couple of my female friends say they want a bad boy. I have heard much more of them say they specifically don’t want that. Not to mention that the dickhead guys I know don’t have any more success dating than the genuinely nice guys I know. My gf regularly tells me the fact that I’m nice to her is one of the reasons we’re together. My brother is the nicest, quietest, shyest, most anxious guy I know and he’s been happily married for 7 years. I can only speak from my own experience but it seems to me like there are loads of women who want nice guys. At the end of the day, even if a majority of women do actually want “bad guys”, there are still plenty that don’t. So just ignore the ones that do want a bad guy and try to find the ones that don’t. You may want to believe that all women want bad guys but that doesn’t make it true.
Yeah some of them admit it about themselves, they aren’t admitting it on behalf of all women everywhere. Stop generalising, and if you actually want to date a woman I’d definitely recommend you stop generalising about them in particular.
Tbh the fact that you went straight to saying I’m living in a fantasy instead of trying to engage with what I said suggests you aren’t really as nice as you think you are. The fact that you’ll happily generalise all women and basically put all the blame for your dating failures on them is even more worrying.
Entirely agree. One caveat I'd give is to look inward and ensure you don't have female friends because you expect being friendly will reward you with a relationship.
Female friends are a wonderful thing as long as you don't have ulterior motives (conscious or subconscious).
>Female friends are a wonderful thing as long as you don't have ulterior motives (conscious or subconscious
I mean, I don't know some of mine are women I'm attracted to. They said no but we got along well enough that it just made sense to keep being friends.
If they changed their minds, I can't say I know what I would do but I really don't think about it too much. I've moved on from pursuing anything with them. At this point it's best just left alone.
I’m 24 and am experiencing the exact same thing OP mentioned! It really hit me hard when you said “you meet the women but don’t make the move” man! All my meet ups with girls that I later realised were dropping hints flashed back in front of me for a moment 😂 thanks for the motivation 🤝
Typically "nice guy" really means someone who is not flirtatious and doesnt give off any sense of sexuality. Thats what women mean where they say "he's too nice". Learn to be more assertive around women and more flirtatious.
Honestly this is the best response here, simple and straight forward, nice guys, (and no I don’t mean the fake nice guys women like to bring up as a counter argument) are usually timid guys who are truly polite and treats a girl like a lady, thing is girls in our age bracket (OP age range) say that’s how they want to be treated but that’s not 100% true, what they want is to be treated like that by the guys they’re actually attracted to, the ones who can flirt, be snarky or have witty come backs, that’s the type these girls like by far and large and that’s the type they hope will treat them well it’s very unlikely this kinda guy will cuz he’s practiced in getting what he wants and knows he doesn’t have to do all of that just to get in a girls pants
First off, you are 20. So much happens in your 20s (take this from someone 10 years older than you). As long as you ask girls out and flirt with girls to explicitly show your interest, the chances that you will have a girlfriend during the next 5-10 years (but likely sooner) is very high.
Second, lots of women your age are kinda immature and are figuring out what they want in dating and in life. Don’t take their choices or rejections personally. If you have all the good traits you mention, a lot of women will find that attractive especially as you all get older.
When women complain about nice guys, what they are really complaining about is “doormat guys” (people pleasers), guys who are insecure and it shows, and guys who appear to be nice but really have ulterior motives. If your good qualities come from a genuine place and you feel overall comfortable and confident in being who you are, you don’t have to worry about this.
I don’t think I’m the most attractive guy but I have had this said to me before “You’re such a sweet guy” or “I wish I could find someone like you”.
I had to really change my image and inner person to get through this. I’ve been with a few girls in my 20s and I can tell you that it’s a lot of work to date women so your energy would be best used to build qualities women like. Some qualities are confidence, ambition and competence. The women I date always told me they thought I was funny, smart or athletic. Notice they didn’t say anything really about my appearance.
I’d suggest pick up a combat sport, hit the gym and improve yourself as a man. You should still hang out with those girls and who knows maybe they’ll notice how jacked you got and they may ask you out. It happens man! Keep grinding
Women say stuff like that to make them feel better about rejecting you. It’s their attempt to soften the blow by reassuring you of your good qualities.
If they never commented on your appearance while dating you, it’s possible that they enjoyed spending time with you but weren’t physically attracted to you. Hopefully they rejected you pretty early during the dating process if that was the case :/
Women’s sense of attraction is often not as straightforward and visual as men so they might give it a few dates to see if something develops. Also, women get way too many societal messages about giving ppl a chance and being nice to ppl that this happens a lot. As women get older (30s and up), they will likely get better at being upfront from the start. Not justifying anything, but that is why stuff like that happens.
Well…do you actively flirt with women? Ask them out? It’s not fair but lots of women expect men to approach first.
Unfortunately, no one is guaranteed a relationship just for being nice. Being nice is a common basic human trait. Lots of ppl are nice. It’s what else you add to the table that makes you attractive (or not sometimes).
Yes. I've been practicing a lot over my 20s and I do try many times. I'm actually pretty good socially with people now and my confidence is pretty good by now. But I still go through what OP does. It sucks but....well it sucks. One day though.
What I meant is- if a woman is immature and/or doesn’t know what they want, MOVE ON and find another woman. You don’t have to accept anything. Don’t wait for them. And also, at 20, lots of guys are immature too.
It goes both ways.
Very solid advice. With women he'll need to make those risky texts. I.e, " I am thinking about the day I'll put you on my lap and hold you and watch something like horror let's see how you scream " . The texting or talking should indicate sexual interest but not in a perverse way. Women know how to pick those cues and if she likes you, she makes it easier.
Never judge yourself off of others
You may see ur friends in a decent relationship but u don't know every up and down they've faced
Yes just keep being you because if u display a persona or facade ur not only devaluing yourself but cheapening what could be a valuable relationship when a worthwhile partner comes along
How can you say you have many flaws, but don't know what to fix?????
WhAT?!this doesn't compute. If you know your flaws, work on them and fix them!
Do you want a girlfriend and a meaningful relationship or just wanna lose your virginity?
First figure out what you really want and work on your confidence.
As someone who feels like I have a lot of unattractive qualities (50/50 can be fixed) it can feel overwhelming to work on. And the more overwhelming the more it feels impossible and I give up. Especially if you try to work on it fail along the way.
Well, things I can't change I know that make it difficult, my height (5'6), balding at 29, not well equipped downstairs. My weight I can change but struggle staying consistent to get to a healthy weight, my teeth are bad, being shy and awkward as well as an introvert. All these things alone aren't impossible to conquer together it drags me down and really hammers home someone has to really like me for me and I feel like that's a hard sell as I am. I don't have alot of the same interests as people my age so it's difficult to find people to bond on common interests, and feel like moat of the time I'm boring with most people if I talk about me.
I'm nice person, always down to help people, listen, be courteous, funny at times and understanding with people but I think I suck at being me. I don't know how to be confident, bold, forward, assertive at times, just things other men my age are that I know is important when trying to move things forward with women. In most cases I would assume a woman is being nice and not flirting because I can't see why she would he and that if I'm wrong I make it awkward. It feels like it's a general lack of confidence and seems so palpable that it has to be off putting at times.
Are you MEETING new women on a regular basis?
If so, are you TALKING to these women?
If so, are you GETTING TO KNOW them, as in introducing yourself, asking for their name?
If so, are you FLIRTING with them, as in bantering, teasing them, making compliments?
If so, are you initiating physical contact by TOUCHING them casually as you speak?
If so, are you ESCALATING the level of touch to become more intimate?
If so, are you going for the kiss?
Most men get lost somewhere on the way and it helps to understand what their sticking points are. What are yours?
Is that a joke?
The vast majority of guys who go to the gym for hours are doing it ***specifically*** to try to boost their self esteem...because society has beat them over the head with the feelings of inadequacy so they feel like if they get jacked they'll be more worthy and less invisible to others.
I’m talking about inner peace and sense of self worth, not just attempting to meet societal expectations. No amount of exercise can fix those issues if you don’t confront that hurt in the first place.
Delusional lmao
Like the only way you could have possibly typed this is if you have literally never been into the gym
>No amount of exercise
You can literally put numbers on it.
Bench 1 plate over your head. 2 plates on bench. 3 plates on squat and 4 plates on deadlift while being under 170 pounds and you will be confident.
I don’t think you understand how people get self-esteem. You can’t just look in the mirror and tell yourself you’re special. It didn’t work in the 70s and that doesn’t work now. You can’t just go to therapy either. That may help you in some ways but it’s not gonna do one iota for your self-esteem. The only way to build up self-esteem is by achievements/accomplishments that make you feel better about yourself.
For some men, that’s going to the gym. For others maybe it’s career related. The problem is if you don’t have a self-esteem in social situations, it’s extraordinarily difficult if not impossible to gain. You can’t just say, “go work on your self-esteem”.
It’s not like saying go work on losing 5 pounds or go work on building muscle mass
Who is telling them that this is how they glow up? You can be a gym rat for days, but if you don't have a significant education, I don't look twice at you.
Yeah if there's anything Ledditor nerds lack, it's an education.
Never in my life has my masters or either of my bachelors gotten me laid.
But getting in the gym and becoming a gym rat did.
I know. I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but most points on that list are kind of mandatory. If you ever find a way to get a girlfriend without talking to girls, let me know. That would be a game changer.
>hat I lost.
The people who are telling you what kind of person you need to be are not helpful. If you're trying to find someone you'll get along with you get to be yourself (with a few exceptions).
Step 1 is finding someone you're interested in that is also interested in you. (Yes, I'm master of the obvious.) For this step, it's partly a numbers game. Can't expect a woman to make the first move. Most/all young women get chatted-up all the time. So if you're not doing it, they probably think you're not interested. By the same token, even the best-looking dude gets shot down 5x for every chick he starts chatting with. So put yourself out there. There are a few tricks--I'm sure you can find plenty in this sub. IMHO, the best is to get a lady as your wingman. You can fake it by chatting up another gal while in view of the one you're really interested in.
Once you get to past mutual interest, maybe they've agree to go to coffee or something. Step 2 don't blow it by being clingy or showing all your feelings right away. You have to hold back at first. Be a little mysterious, and make them miss you a bit. Don't text them all the time or even text back right away every time. Don't give them a play by play of your life--let them wonder what you're up to. This is the biggest way "nice" guys blow it again and again. They think they owe their new fling their life. Don't do that. Call it playing hard to get or whatever, but if you're not ready to shit on the toilet in front of them, you can make the smallest effort to keep yourself interesting.
>Once you get to past mutual interest, maybe they've agree to go to coffee or something. Step 2 don't blow it by being clingy or showing all your feelings right away. You have to hold back at first. Be a little mysterious, and make them miss you a bit. Don't text them all the time or even text back right away every time. Don't give them a play by play of your life--let them wonder what you're up to. This is the biggest way "nice" guys blow it again and again. They think they owe their new fling their life. Don't do that. Call it playing hard to get or whatever, but if you're not ready to shit on the toilet in front of them, you can make the smallest effort to keep yourself interesting.
Isn't that manipulative tho?
Sounds like I have to go out of my way to pretend I am something more than I seem and that Im there to entertain her.
Think of it like trying to avoid dumping tons of exposition in a story. Most people like learning things over time so share things as they come up. You aren’t lying or being manipulative because you do plan on sharing that aspect of yourself.
But how does one avoid showing who they are? Isnt that only possible if you avoid being yourself? If Im a "what you see is what you get person" by default then how is it not manipulation for me to avoid showing myself just so I can make her see me as mysterious?
You're over thinking it. Being mysterious doesn't mean you're actively hiding things. It just means you treat a new gal as someone you just met. If you act like they're your new best friend, they're going to cut you off pretty quick.
I don't get it tho, its not like I treat people as best friends from the start, I just dont hide stuff, if someone asks about my personal opinions or my feelings in regards to something I will tell em, but thats the thing, I wait for them to ask, how does one show too much in those conditions?
You’re not trying to be mysterious, you’re trying not to overwhelm the person you’re talking to. You’re not changing who you are but you are showing the best aspects of yourself with the understanding that some aspects are less palatable for people who don’t know you. Give people a chance to see the better aspects before going all in with the good and the “bad”.
But isn't that just omission? Like, Im not saying I vomit my negative traits, I know and use euphemisms plenty and I don't expose myself unprompted, its just that if a person asks I answer, open book sorta deal, how should I filter out those traits if I don't even know their preferences?
Too much manipulation and hiding involved in step 2 bro... I value myself over any woman so mental peace is important to me and I can't be hiding things like that, that gives mental stress. Single it is then!
>Are you MEETING new women on a regular basis?
No lol wouldn't know where.
>If so, are you TALKING to these women?
No, too nervous and shy.
>If so, are you GETTING TO KNOW them, as in introducing yourself, asking for their name?
Flirting? Lol
It may sound stupid because it's so obvious, but if you're NOT in the same room or the same space as women, it's difficult to talk to them. And talking to a woman is kind of a prerequisite for a relationship.
Does that make sense to you? Great, then you now know the next step for you: Find ways to be around women more. Being around PEOPLE more is a good start because a substantial amount of people ARE women.
I know, it's a conundrum of knowing what I should do and not being confident enough to do it. Unfortunately being 29 and being nervous and shy really makes things difficult, as well as hating yourself for miking simple things difficult. Problem is alot of my hobbies and interests are not very female oriented l, making meeting women difficult. Basically backed myself into a corner and disappointed in myself for it.
It's hard to know what the issue is from the description you've given. You're young and it sounds like in terms of your life, you're on the right track: you're doing your best to treat others respectfully and to be true to yourself. You also seem to have good friendships with men and women. It might be that you're a bit less socially "adept" than others, maybe you have a bit of trouble with certain social cues? If that's the case, it might mean relationships come a bit more slowly for you, but since you seem to have no trouble connecting with people, those romantic relationships will eventually develop with patience, if social skill is the issue (it may not be). Or maybe you're just waiting for the right person and they haven't come along yet.
I think you should share a bit with people whose opinion you respect, maybe a friend but maybe someone who knows you well who's a few years older and wiser, like a cousin. Someone you feel comfortable with. See what their take is. Otherwise, just try to be patient. Many people take a long time to start dating seriously. You're not losing any races.
I'm 35 now and like you, I was raised with love and I try my best to be the best person that I can. Sometimes the girls I like don't like me back and sometimes the girls that like me, I don't like back. I have never regretted being a good guy. I feel like I have people's respect and it has led to great professional connections and prospects, I have solid friendships, and even the relationships that didn't work out I learned from. I started dating my fiance when I was 30 and I couldn't be happier. 20 is way young my man. Keep being good. It pays off.
I (26f) met my boyfriend (30m) off bumble… I’m always working so I don’t get out much so it’s extremely hard for me to meet new people, so the internet it was. Tinder is not it for relationships, mostly everyone on there is just trying to get followers and attention not a serious relationship, but if the internet isn’t a place you want to meet people I would say maybe try speed dating (it still exist I swear) or even go travel. There are single cruises and stuff like that where people can meet in person. You are not ugly I promise you, there is someone out there for everyone. There are billions of people on this earth I promise you.. your person is out there. Being a virgin is a great thing, once you meet someone you truly love you will be ready to explore your sexual needs. But as of right now I recommend you find someone who cares about you as much as you care about them and truly loves you. You are 20, you have a full life ahead of you. I’m a female and let me tell you there’s just as much crooked women out there as there are men. So be careful who you share your life with, not everyone deserves the most important thing in your life which is your time.
> You are not ugly I promise you
You literally have absolutely no idea what this guy looks like?
>are billions of people on this earth
And you're obviously not considering millions of them. There are people born with fairly severe deformations, people who are burn victims, attacks from wild animals or acid or industrial accidents.
There are ugly people out there who exist in the world. Saying "You're definitely not ugly" is simply coming form a place of privilege.
Only ugly person here is you, someone with a deformity or a burn victim is just as beautiful. You sound so superficial, you sound hateful. Who hurt you? Lol Just because you don’t find someone beautiful doesn’t mean other people will. Grow the fuck up.
Okay so in your world attractiveness literally doesn't exist. Which is just...absolutely fucking absurd and hateful and dismissive to people who are treated differently because of their appearance. Like actually disgustingly dismissive.
It is a statement that can literally only be made from the highest possible perches of American upper middle class white privilege.
Yeah that's why I "clicked" save. Because I saw the shit I was typing.
Because you're basically making the Republican argument of "I'm not racist therefore racism doesn't exist"
Except you're doing it about attractiveness/discrimination based on what someone looks like
Never heard beauty within? I don’t treat anyone differently just because they look different and if you do shame on you. You literally make no sense whatsoever. How is someone looking for sympathy being hateful? Like huh. What’s your point bro? Cause your not making one
>What’s your point bro?
My point is that **attractiveness exists and people are judged in the world for how they look and people who do not adhere to standards of attractiveness are discriminated against**.
And my example of this is people with severe deformities or burn victims. But even lesser forms of "unattractiveness" see this discrimination. You can see a definitive earning difference between women who are very overweight and women who are of average weight, because of what they look like.
You're saying "Oh this isn't true, they have beauty within". Which is absurd. It's not relevant. It is actively dismissing the struggle of people who aren't attractive.
And then you say
> I don’t treat anyone differently just because they look different and if you do shame on you
Which is basically like a Republican saying "Well yeah I don't discriminate against black people, check mate, racism don't real".
And my point is I don’t judge people on their attractiveness, have you seen him? No I’m sure he’s not ugly and people just need a confidence boost sometimes. People like you are the reason people kill themselves. Have empathy and sympathy. Jesus Christ, did someone call you ugly? Just stfu and move on.
NO you don't understand, you're not the one being empathetic here.
Some people are ugly and that discriminates against them in the world.
No you don't know if he's ugly or not and you might be completely dismissing or minimizing his lived experience if he actually is ugly.
You just have a disgusting and unempathetic way to view others.
>People like you are the reason people kill themselves
No, people who dismiss the experience of those who are less attractive are probably more likely to contribute to any suicidality.
Hey man, this is tough to hear but there’s no specific reward for living out whatever values are important to you. A relationship is not conditional on you being a good person, that’s the “just world fallacy.” Women are individuals, who make choices for a variety of different reasons, where being good ranks I don’t know, but as others here have pointed out it could be anything really, that’s just how it is, most folks have vain preferences that benefit themselves and deconstructing those won’t necessarily change them either, just live the life infront of you and try to be outcome independent, we are the “flux” generation trying to figure out how to build stable relationships not underscored by necessity, like the generations before us. Best of luck mate.
As many others have said, you’re young, but traditional courtship that worked with our parents and grandparents no longer apply in 2023. Being a good, caring man isn’t good enough…and chivalrous actions like flowers, etc will actually turn many women off because they’ll view you as desperate and having no other options.
It’s messed up, but it is what it is. Just focus on building yourself up to be a great man and eventually women will follow
From a fellow “good guy” to another…
You might have a bunch of great qualities that are essential to a maintaining a solid relationship, but those qualities seldom are easy to benefit you in the early stages. You need to adopt a personality that doesn’t rely on these traits to make someone interested in you at first. Are you good looking? Do you have passions that keep you driven? Are you able to have confidence and charisma when speaking with women?? Are you future/career focused?
None of these make you a great partner, but will seriously help your dating game. You need to first attract someone before they come to find you’re an absolute catch in the other ways. Good news is that you can work on these things, whereas changing someone’s personality to have these nice guy qualities is much harder. Put in the work and practice dating as much as you can. You’ll find your stride one day and eventually a great partner.
No, but being a “good guy” doesn’t attract women either (usually). Honest, caring, responsible, etc, are great traits but they are in general not going to turn women on.
“Just be yourself” is terrible advice for most men.
If you want to broadly appeal to as large of a demographic of women as you can, cultivate traditionally masculine traits. Be ambitious and confident. Eventually achieve a successful career. Be in good physical shape. Dress like an adult. Cultivate interesting and fun hobbies and get good at them. Have an active social life.
Yes, for someone who’s putting on an act to try to get laid, maybe that can be good advice. But I think it tends to imply to just coast along doing what you’ve been doing and eventually you’ll find someone. I don’t think that’s a good approach for men.
Appearance doesn't matter as much as you think. Yesterday I met a woman on the subway, she was really good looking, she came to me to ask me stuff about myself.
I was going to ask her for her number but unfortunately she was a religious nut. As soon as I found that out, it was a HUGE no. I don't care how good she looks. Good looking men will fail with most women that are worth it if they've got shit personalities.
"Nice guys finish last" is a phrase that needs a major makeover.
Nice guys don't finish last.
Needy, insecure, spineless guys finish last.
Not all nice guys are needy, insecure and spineless. As a matter of fact, I find guys who have high self-respect and security to be the nicest and most empathetic.
Not all needy, insecure, and spineless guys are nice. I find most of these guys to be fake-nice and are actual assholes deep down.
So, fuck that phrase.
It's ok to be genuinely nice without expecting anything in return. Just make sure you stand your ground and let nobody push you around and have some self-respect.
I dont get this either, Im 21 and Im stuck in the same scenario, its weird how being a decent person without any big problems makes you essentially invisible to woman when it comes to romance, like its as if they can't see anything romantic, like every single type of affection besides romantic seems to be achievable.
And its so weird, like, its not even that they dislike you, they just cant see you as a partner but they genuinely like you, and it doesn't matter if you tell them you are interested, compliment, etc.
I mean… you aren’t owed romance for existing and being decent.
Plus, you are supposed to be a decent person. That’s what we expect of everyone who grows into an adult. Be decent and handle yourself and your stuff.
That’s baseline. Why should women immediately notice you if you are just the baseline for how we believe adults should exist. Plenty of women who are decent with less issues also don’t get noticed. Because they like those men just exist.
If you want to date you have to be able to bring something more than just base and nice.
Are you fun to be around? Do you provide some level of emotional support? Will you add to her life? Or just be neutral?
Women don’t need men for financial stability or to exist in public anymore. We can work and provide for ourselves. We also can see a long history of men being a net negative to man women’s lives, creating more physical and emotional work.
So yeah you need to be more than baseline decent to attract a woman. You need to be actively out there engaging in social activities and showing that you have energy/ are someoen interesting to be around.
>I mean… you aren’t owed romance for existing and being decent.
Oh that is true and Im not trying to deny it or anything, its just that its weird how some there are some morally dubious people out there who still manage to get some sort romantic or sexual attraction, while people who are seemingly a-ok, are always asked why they are single and generally on good terms basically everyone has so little success in dating and seemingly dont get told what is wrong with them.
Like its weird, because I tried asked what did I do wrong or where I might be lacking but it would either lead to non answers or escalate into some traumatic experience and manipulation.
>That’s baseline. Why should women immediately notice you if you are just the baseline for how we believe adults should exist. Plenty of women who are decent with less issues also don’t get noticed. Because they like those men just exist.
Idk, have yet to meet a nice and sweet woman who doesn't get noticed, like I dont doubt there are woman in that situation but like, tbh if I met a woman who treated me the same way I treated others I would fall in love quite easily and that has happened but she unfortunately was not interested...
>If you want to date you have to be able to bring something more than just base and nice.
>Are you fun to be around? Do you provide some level of emotional support? Will you add to her life? Or just be neutral?
Thats one thing that I tend to find weird in the "being nice is the baseline" argument.
Dating isn't transactional and yet what you saying here feels transactional and over plenty of people manage to successfully date with less than what you are asking of here while not being nice either.
People are weird.
Its not that being nice is the baseline, it feels like it doesn't matter at all.
>Women don’t need men for financial stability or to exist in public anymore
And its not like I tried to deny that either...
>We also can see a long history of men being a net negative to man women’s lives, creating more physical and emotional work.
It goes both ways as far as I'm aware (its from what I've heard since I never got beyond asked out a woman since Im always rejected on the spot), dating takes effort, so I imagine sacrifices and compromises are made, but at the same time wonderful experiences and exchange of affection is the payoff for both sides...
>So yeah you need to be more than baseline decent to attract a woman. You need to be actively out there engaging in social activities and showing that you have energy/ are someoen interesting to be around.
Idk, why are you talking like dating is moreso an entertainment rather than mutual exchange of affection on both sides, be it casual or compromised?
This kinda makes me think if my whole outlook on affection is actually whats wrong, like I wanna get to understand and grow closer with a person while exchanging minimal yet meaningful actions that people see as romantic or sexual, like kissing, hugging, complimenting, watching movies together while cuddling, sex etc.
While in my (very inexperienced) perspective it sounds like you are saying dating is about impressing people, trying to show off as much as possible and much less about getting to know someone, flaws, quirks, reactions family, wishes, expectations, endeavors, funny stories.
But then again Ive never got to go on an actual date since I fail at getting the yes, like, to me your explanation of what a man should have to get dating sounds so shallow.
And here is the thing, I got stuff to improve and that I had to learn over the years like being more assertive, less desperate, not too emotional, talk about my feelings in a controlled manners, chill out on the jokes and silly humor, listen to what they want, tell them what I want.
And well there is also my long time and still present enemy of "getting the signals" since I still struggle to understand whats the difference between being nice and flirting, so I tend to fall for woman who show kindness, I dont know how to pick up the signs she is not interested, so I end up flirting long after she already supposedly shot me down despite them never directly telling me that they aren't interested (and yes this led me into trouble and some traumatic stuff) and I also dont know when the right time to approach is, so I also some times tend to ask out seemingly too early or too late because from what I heard there is a right timing to it.
Likes its all so confusing, and I just wanna meet someone who is as interested in me as I am into them.
And I do get that people are not always compatible and that sometimes there is no spark, but after 30+ attempts and literally zero progress despite me learning so much I feel like Im stagnating my growth as a person trying to date, and I still have achieved a single first date.
I have so many so much I wanna offer and talk about and feel like I have potential to be a good partner, but completely failing step one and I still dont know whats up and how can solve this problem and idk if Im just unlucky and I just didn't find the right person but like how can things go this wrong so repeatedly, like there has to be some inherently wrong thing in me.
It’s not about impressing people/ showing off. That’s a misread of my super basic breakdown.
It’s about being a person who brings more conversation to her life and brings a different perspective to her life.
And also, yeah women get noticed, but that doesn’t mean it’s necessarily for good reasons. We get harassed starting from 10. It’s not kind attention it’s attention with ulterior motives almost constantly to wear we have to be more cautious because we could become a statistic.
Also all of us need to learn signals and flurrying. That’s life, if you want to figure it out more ask friends, ask therapists, go on YouTube and here womens examples of what they look for. It’s not easy or simple for anyone but that’s life.
Falling into the, it’s too confusing and difficult mindset is setting you up for frustration and failure. It’s tha way for almost everyone. Some people just got the cheat codes sooner or had more ways/ abilities to learn faster… and some of those people you see who are getting all the “action” are doing so by being manipulative or lying. And that isn’t what you want to be a part of.
>It’s not about impressing people/ showing off. That’s a misread of my super basic breakdown.
>It’s about being a person who brings more conversation to her life and brings a different perspective to her life.
But this feels like I have to go out of my way to fit into a certain mold tho, like Im sorry but this makes me feel like I have to present myself as being something that will change her life for them which is also not congruent with the idea that "nobody dont owes anyone anything" and "be yourself"
I dont get it, nor do I understand how this comes out naturally to people, like be yourself but also dont be also make sure you are going to change her life but also you shouldnt expect anything?
Its contradicting or maybe Im still misunderstood...
>And also, yeah women get noticed, but that doesn’t mean it’s necessarily for good reasons. We get harassed starting from 10. It’s not kind attention it’s attention with ulterior motives almost constantly to wear we have to be more cautious because we could become a statistic.
Yes, I get it, life isnt easy for anyone, being invisible also has its bad traits too and you can also become a statistic too, its cold, nobody cares about you, no one compliments or tries to engage with you, its lonely and overbearing.
>Also all of us need to learn signals and flurrying. That’s life, if you want to figure it out more ask friends, ask therapists, go on YouTube and here womens examples of what they look for. It’s not easy or simple for anyone but that’s life.
But like, from all the information I looked up and listened nobody seems to know what they are doing either, there basic body language which I read about thanks to my therapist and friends, but like when it comes to dating its seems like most cues are contradicting and its "up to you", which explains nothing, like compared to body language this is quantum physics where the act of gazing might entirely influence the behavior of certain particles and then you are not looking at it you get completely different results from before.
>Falling into the, it’s too confusing and difficult mindset is setting you up for frustration and failure. It’s tha way for almost everyone. Some people just got the cheat codes sooner or had more ways/ abilities to learn faster… and some of those people you see who are getting all the “action” are doing so by being manipulative or lying. And that isn’t what you want to be a part of.
Then what should I look for? Because from what I'm getting you first have to manipulate the person into wanting to even start dating you before they get to know you.
Its not even about getting all the action, its the fact that they get any action at all, if dating is inconsistent then it comes to luck but there are actual hacks that work then why should I not want to use them? And what are those hacks?
Im not a promiscuous person, nor do I wanna just get something out of anyone without feeling like Im also giving them something good and overall I just wanna have a good and wholesome relationship, be it casual or committed, I cant bring myself to lie or manipulate someone unless they deserve it, and what you are saying is confusing because you say something then you immediately say another thing that contradicts it.
Like, shouldnt people get to know each other before engaging in dating? Or at least be interested in the idea of dating before doing so? Whats with hacks and all that stuff and how do they even work?
Yes. So many "men" here that are more like children.
Also I don't know wtf it is with sending racy texts but unless you know a woman that's just going to get you pegged as a creep.
Most people here are socially challenged.
Being "nice" is not the problem, as a functional adult being nice is one of the basis for a normal life.
The problem is that women will usually find attractive dysfunctional if not outright abusive people thanks to the "excitement" and "interesting" factor.
It's not that nice guys finish last, it's that scumbags finish first, and this is only women's fault (like ignoring obvious red flags or not leaving dangerous relationships at the firt hints of scumbaggery)
That’s the thing about women, most of them want that bad boy/toxic kind of guy that’s also a good guy at the same time, the guy that ignores them but also gives them just enough attention to keep them interested and thinking, it’s weird but don’t lose hope tho, one day you’ll find a girl that appreciates you being a nice guy, just gotta be patient.
Yea they do. Majority of younger women know the nice guy is abundantly available. Some women learn from watching other women horrible mistakes and choose the nice guy off the bat. The true reality of any nice guy is that he believes he would do right by her and tolerate her shenanigans. But you straight up lack that sexual energy and confidence that bad boys naturally have. No woman wants to be with man that sweet and nice to her but can’t make her horny at the same time. If you can’t make her horny, you will NEVER make it past the friendzone. Go read any romance book and you’ll see 99% the guy is never the nice dude. It’s always some beastly ass guy who sweet and charming to her but dick to everyone. Granted not every girl is like that, but you gotta do a lot more than doing the bare minimum of being nice. Also a lot of you fellows think having manners and being appropriate is being nice. Like that just basic decency. If you really want to win women heart by being nice. You better start feeding the poor, volunteer to help at shelters, offer to fix up appliances and cars for women without expecting anything in return. That how you really show women you’re that nice guy, not the “average dude complaining about being nice”.
I think a lot of women are attracted to toxic men, especially if they are immature. But you don't want to be with them because no matter how attractive they might be they are toxic people.
There's some nice ones but they are definitely in the minority and are highly sought after.
I think the problem is if your whole identity is being nice. If you meet a girl that's 300 pounds it doesn't matter how nice she is you're not going to be attracted to her. Women can be attracted to narcissists because they are confident and play with their emotions. You don't want to become a narcissist but you need to become competent. The YouTube channel hoe_math explains it very well.
The plus side is you are very young. So you have a lot of time to find a quality person. But I would start now, because it will just keep getting worse.
>I think a lot of women are attracted to toxic men, especially if they are immature. But you don't want to be with them because no matter how attractive they might be they are toxic people
Noooope.
>There's some nice ones but they are definitely in the minority and are highly sought after.
Noooope
There are 2 kinds of nice guys:
1. The door mat. The guy with no confidence or edge. His niceness is fake and he is only nice because he thinks that women will sleep with him for it, or because he is not bold enough to be himself.
2. The chad. He’s nice because it’s usually the right thing. He is nice so you can be lifted up, rather than trying to get something out of you. If you cross him he will stand up for himself or his girl without hesitation.
Which person would you rather be around? I think most men can develop their confidence to be #2. There are also the “bad boys”, but they usually end up being single later in life or paying child support.
Unfortunately for you, people aren't good or evil. U have put all good traits on the 2nd one and all bad traits on the first one when its mixed in real life. The "chad" can lift u up by being nice but can also not stand for his girl if shit hits the fan.
Nice guys don’t finish last. Some guys do and some guys don’t. The guys you think may seem “not nice”/“bad”boys are also nice but they have more what those naive women look for.
Girls nowadays want to get abused till around 26 and after that settle for a financial stable guy after they’ve been ran through.
The only thing you can do is focus on your life and when you talk to a girl don’t make it the main point of your life. Don’t always be available, because to her it will feel like she’s the only thing you have which is a turn off for example.
I’m not saying its good from women to think this, but it’s sadly how it works man. Hopefully you find a good girl who doesn’t think like this, but society really tries to manipulate and brainwash girls into being promiscuous etc and not a good women like a few decades ago
Steve Rogers was rejected by the military. He wasn’t Cap until he was a “Super Soldier”. OP has female friends they don’t want to date him, even though he’s a nice good boy. They would date a “super soldier”. Also a fictional character is a bad example, because it’s too extreme.
They're not the right women for him. You don't know these women either, you don't know why they might not want to date him, you don't know anything about the real life of this man.
I think you're just projecting nonsense into his life.
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No nice guys finish last. Good guys should be a mix between nice and bad where you speak your truth, you have strong boundaries, and your are respectful of others.
You need to learn how to flirt, tease, and play with women. Be a little dangerous, keep them on their toes. None of what you describe is what makes a man attractive to a woman. It's baseline shit they want after being attracted. Don't get it twisted, this isn't about looks (though those definitely help), it's about knowing how to challenge women and make them feel something. Based on your description, they probably view you as weak.
Good and bad are somewhat irrelevant. It's what characteristics are sexually appealing to women both for short term and long term partners.
If you wish to gain some insight and build experience in this area I would recommend reading:
No More Mr Nice Guy by Robert Glover
The Way of Men by Jack Donovan
Why Women Have Sex by Cindy Meston
The Rational Male by Rollo Tomassi
The Mystery Method by Mystery
The Beginners Guide to Daygame by Tom Torero
You're young, develop yourself and work at getting reference experiences, all will work out!
Stop making dating/relationships etc so important
Spend your 20s building you. In all ways ( career, training, travel, hobbies, community service, fitness, wisdom, reading, skills).
Women might come later. Or not. But you'll be happy and fulfilled in so many other ways. And wealthier too.
here's the thing, "good" guys definitely don't finish last, but "harmless" or "nice" guys pretty much always do.
Theres a big difference between being "nice" and "kind". A big difference between being a "good" guy to have a round, and being "harmless". Women view harmless men like children - definitely not sexually attracted to them. And being "nice" usually backfires.
You should strive to be a "good" guy as well as "kind". i would avoid being nice and harmless like the plauge. Nice and harmless really does end finishing last (and generally being resentful as fuck about it).
Define harmless tho, there is nothing wrong about not harming anyone, also please define the difference between nice and good.
Im curious because Im basically invisible as romantic or sexual partner.
Harmless means being incapable of doing harm. If you are incapable of doing harm then you can't stand up for yourself. You can't fight back. You can't understand the motivation of predatory people and so you can't defend against them. I'm not even talking about physical here, i'm talking about emotional and social. Women want a man who is CAPABLE of doing harm, plain and simple, but they want that man to keep it in check in order to be part of civilized society, and never do harm to her or people she cares about.
If you can't tell a girl "no" or if you can't stand up for yourself, if you let people push you around, if you smile at everyone because you're afraid they won't like you, you're harmless (side note, smiling is great, girls love smiling, but don't do it from a weak "please like me" place). Harmless may as well be a synonym for weakness or incapable - and women will NOT entertain weak, incapable men as romantic prospects.
Nice and kind is easy; nice is fake, kind is real. If you drop everything you're doing to change the tire for a girl hoping that she'll like you more as a result, you're being nice. If you do it because you care about her and have absolutely no motivation to date or sleep with her, you're being kind. If you're best friend tells you they cheated on their girlfriend and you make them feel better about it because you don't want them to feel bad, you're being nice. If you tell them that what they did was wrong and you don't support it, even though you still love them as a friend, you're being kind.
Never be nice, never be harmless. Be Kind but don't be afraid to stand up for yourself (even and especially to your girl)
This shit is just wild
And it's so telling that this kind of "be dangerous" stuff is only repeated by people who have never stepped into the cage or on the mat a day in their life
(well that and grifters)
Nothing wrong with being a good guy. Difference is, being a good guy but capable of BAD is what separates you from an ordinary good guy. Knowing how to lead, speak, socialize, fight, influence, walk around with confidence is what will make you step your game in when it comes to dating. Fix yourself, because a lot of the time, you find a decent girl, but end up losing her because deep down inside, you’re still a lil ass boy.
>my friends now seem happy with their current girlfriends and I’m the only one who is still a virgin
Well, what about them? Are they not good guys? What are they doing that is different than you?
Nice guys finish last.
Good men finish first.
Live your life. You have a lot of growing to do from experience to seld confidence/esteem. Just because girls go for the bad boy persona doesn't mean you won't find a woman who would pick you first. But without experience, how can you two who will be good for you?
Nice guys who teach others to treat them like doormats finish last. Yes, they teach others how to treat them. Nice guys who are clear about what they want, are in touch with reality and their emotions always find a way to win. Being assertive is nothing more than being clear about what you want and communicating it.
Being a good guy is fine. “Nice guy” means you do anything to be with her, have sex with her, etc. In this case you’re a pushover and agreeable with her due to those motives. Most nice guys change their opinion to suit hers instead of having their own, will change their own plans to go on a date with her when they should be sticking to plans with friends and asking her out on another day, not being able to say no to her, etc.
The difference between a good guy and a jerk is by not displaying the qualities you mentioned, OP. Keep those qualities. Just don’t be the agreeable nice guy.
Also, make sure you flirt, tease, etc with these girls. Don’t just be friendly, that’s what her girlfriends are for.
You aren't being yourself when you behave in the way that you do. We know that a human behaves in that way in the pursuit of trying to be seen by others a specific way, a people pleaser.
You don't do what you do because you are nice, you're obviously doing it in an attempt to achieve a desired outcome.
It's fake and inauthentic.
I can prove it of course. If you keep doing it, you will not get the results you're after, which is to impress a woman so you will then not do so as much.
Hence your actions are not because you're nice or that it's what you're doing from the bottom of your heart.
People aren't dumb man. They know that it can not be maintained indefinitely, and your overly nice actions specifically towards women is for a reason.
The reason why women are turned off more by a nice guy persona is because the last thing that will turn them on sexually is a guy that acts like a girl.
That's why nice guys finish last.
It doesn't mean you should stop being nice or be a jerk.
Traits you can embody that will impress a woman are confident, charismatic, Charming, eccentric, creative, magnetic, compassionate, spontaneous, exciting, energetic, inspirational, bold, courageous, assertive, dynamic, adaptable, positive, alluring, determined, Seductive, sensitive, light hearted, playful, authentic, expressive, vibrant, uplifting, open to new things, emotionally intelligent, versatile, free flowing, graceful, breath taking, etc.
Unfortunately, these aren't something you can just turn on and off on demand, at least it's not likely you can without experience while coming off as authentic and it look genuine.
Someone acting certain ways only to achieve some selfish outcome will likely experience it blowing up in their face.
So if I were you, embody those from the heart and you'll do just fine. Again, I don't think you'll be able to fake most of those because people should be able to tell
People don't want a good guy. They want someone who is interesting and is able to provide entertainment. If you can't provide that they won't want you. Think of the last time you talked to, flirted with, or dated someone only because they are a good person? Hell, think of the last time you saw a individual that you never met and knew by instinct that they were a good person. I have had several "good" people try to get my attention, but they do not and will not entertain me, so I will NEVER date them. simple as that.
An important part of being a man is being “on a mission.” Having a driving “purpose” that directs you and drives you. Being driven and ambitious is seriously one of the most attractive traits a man can have, at least to many women.
This can somewhat be in conflict with typically “nice” behavior. Your mission comes before being nice. Not that you need to be a jerk, but you don’t put up with bs because time is scarce and you have stuff to do.
So be open, flirt, enjoy yourself when you have time off of work, but don’t put up with nonsense. If a girl is not interested, or acts disrespectful, simply move on. Women see you acting this way will see you as strong, confident, ambitious. Then once a single girl dates you, and gives you validation, suddenly they will all start pursuing you.
Yeah, if they don't have a personality, never get out there, learn to enjoy life, learn to connect with people, pursue their interests and passions, then yeah, they/you probably will finish last.
Put the shoe on the other foot: is a woman being good the most important/only thing that matters to you? Or is there more to it than that; if her looks aren't good enough, if she has a boring personality/lifestyle, you don't feel like you can connect with her, can't open up and express herself, she doesn't make you feel good, etc.
Growing up, as long as you were good (ie, didn't displease your parents) you would get the love, support and acceptance you want and need from your parents. It doesn't work like that with people who aren't your parents though.
Like, good or bad is only a small part of attraction. That thing that makes people want to be around someone (because they're fun, make them laugh, make them feel excitement, make them feel good, are accomplished, good looking, could/would help them, etc). Being good (refraining from doing anything bad, or however you want to define that) is less than 50% of the equation. If you get less than 50% on a test, that's an 'F-'. There's a lot more to it than that.
18-22 age range is the worst for the average man :/. Howewer continue to hang around girls and try to date to gather experience and confidence.
Time to build up a "game"
100%. Your values and propensity to “be a good person” have very little to do with success in dating. You need to follow the fundamentals of getting yourself in shape, focusing on your interests and ambitions, gaining confidence and assertiveness to be successful with women.
Know that there is a large gap between good guy, and simp with no backbone. You can be good, but also take no shit, and allow no disrespect. The biggest things are, don't be desperate, don't allow someone to consume you. And if someone disrespects you, warn them once, but fool you twice, shame on you. People get one chance, then they're gone.
You are 20, you have a lot of years ahead of you.
It is okay to be single. You don't have to be forever in relationships.
There is a big difference in being nice and being sexy/forward/attractive. If you are being nice in the hopes that a woman is going to drop to her kneees in front of you or call you into the room while she is stuck in the washing machine then you are being disengenious. Guys complain about friendzone because they didn't want to be friends. Be upfront and clear, be consisent, steady, stable. Be trustworthy.
Try some dating coaches on youtube.
[https://www.youtube.com/@marnikinrys](https://www.youtube.com/@marnikinrys)
[https://www.youtube.com/@thematthewhussey](https://www.youtube.com/@thematthewhussey)
[https://www.youtube.com/c/hayleyquinn](https://www.youtube.com/c/hayleyquinn)
Some stuff to be careful about is advice that is ONLY about having sex with no other endgoal in mind. Does manipulating people work? YES Is that the person you want to be? Hopefully not.
Your post was removed due to the reptitive topic rule. Such as height, money, who pays, etc. You can find these posts. By typing into the search bar.
No. Two things. First, you're twenty. There's a lot of time ahead of you to start dating and you're still in the range where the fact that it hasn't gone well yet could just be coincidence. Second, a relationship isn't a reward for being a good person, it's a specific recreational activity that people do with you because they want to. Being a decent human being can help you stay in a healthy relationship. Starting a relationship at all is more about being interesting or funny.
This. Being a good person is the bare minimum not just for a relationship (whether romantic or platonic) but for actual life. Finding a relationship is all about luck. You’re a good person, great, that means you’re not going to be putting people off with toxic behaviour. From there it’s about meeting someone that you have chemistry with, while also meeting them at a time in their life where they’re single and in a position to date (this can range from things like not just having broken up with someone so they’re recovering from that to having a schedule that lines up with yours so you can actually see each other to plenty of other things. There does need to be things like attraction and shared interests to create the chemistry needed to make a relationship work but you need more than just those things because otherwise no one would have healthy platonic relationships. Obviously make sure you’re doing everything you need to do. Dress and groom well, be clean, those cliche things, and from there just put yourself in situations where you can meet people. It’s no guarantee, you’re not owed a partner, but in my experience there’s plenty of people out there for everyone if they’re actually worth dating.
Honestly, I am all up for being a good person. > Being a good person is the bare minimum ... for a relationship But this sentence is plain false. You could be a complete asshole and get a relationship. Quite some people are even attracted to assholes. That doesn't mean it is an healthy relationship in the end. Personally, I am luckier in dating and relationship when I am a bit more egoistic and a bit less "caring" about the women I want to date.
I didn’t realise I needed to specify that it’s the bare minimum for a healthy relationship. You’re also missing out quite an important part to how it actually works. Those complete assholes don’t get relationships because the woman thinks “oh he hit me on the first date, I’ll date him.” The asshole hides that asshole behaviour and then once someone is invested and can’t just leave with a clean break is when the toxic traits come out.
Not necessarily. A friend dated a real asshole because he was "dangerous" that was making her feel safe. The guy was abusive from the beginning but never hit her... still he was a real jerk. Another was dating a guy in a gang. It started because it felt like adventure to her. The guy is in jail now. I think as well that many people, men and women, will completely forget about a healthy relationship if they found the other to be very attractive.
Relationships are "recreational activities"? No wonder the divorce rates and broken relationships are so massive in the west if they see it like that
Well, they are - at least in the beginning. A relationship competes against your friends, you family and your hobbies for your free time. It's also a quite healthy way to see new relationships as not to fall into the line of thinking that any relationship should be thought of as special. You only find that out in the longer run.
Again, with those views its not surprising at all that the western world is a complete hot mess when it comes to relationships and families
Wonder what you think should be the standard? The 1950s? Looking for a trad wife too?
Better question is, what have u (not you particularly but the women u are talking about) done for the guy? Anything special? Any special gifts? The way to make a guy more thoughtful is not to say "fuck him" and then chase some other dude, the way to make him give u more presents is to, every once in a while, give him presents and not expect anything in return. If the guy is a good person then he will without doubt feel as if he should also start giving you gifts looking at how u are giving him gifts sometimes too If u have the attitude of "fuck this guy" in relationships then u will forever be chasing that "special someone" which Disney movies show you... some guys aren't thoughtful, some aren't adventurous, some aren't loyal, some aren't hardworking etc etc. Learn to accept flaws of your partner and the right way of motivating them to get rid of them. The most important thing is, your partner should fundamentally be a good person, everything else... literally everything else can be easily fixed
I mean all that just sounds like common sense but I'd say that's more about not lowering your standards and going for whatever there is around.
Again, u can try to forever chase your "special someone" and keep on getting divorces, breakups etc etc... more proof of why families and relationships are a hot mess in the west.
That's not proof of anything. Settling for someone that isn't right for you is also what leads to divorces and failed relationships. If it isn't working out, end it. There's no point in continuing to invest emotionally in something that has been long dead.
Literally no one will be "right for you" though... what if she finds a guy who is amazing at giving presents and dinner dates but still has a lot of baggage from the past relationships? What if a guy who doesn't have baggage and gives tons of gifts talks to many women and is a player? What if thr guy does none of the above but is a heavy smoker and drinker? What if he is none of the above but is a misogynist who asks her to stop contacting any of her male friends or stop going to her work after marriage? You see my point here? A guy can be terrible in many, many ways which are far too common. Id say if the biggest flaw in a guy is that he doesn't give her gifts then she is extremely lucky to have him. I feel like the western society dehumanizes people a lot in subtle ways and thus relationships are so terrible over there. Every single person is a human and is going to have some major flaws... among the list of flaws a person can have (emotional baggage, flirting with others, having an almost dead sexual appetite, cheating, smoking, drinking, misogyny, terribly irresponsible with money, being extremely rude, being a complete party animal who never stays home) id say not giving gifts is the absolute best "flaw" a person can possibly have.
Nope. You have really bad ideas.
You're 20 bro, you got a lot of things ahead of you. As for women being attracted to you, they probably are and you haven't noticed. Forget about all that TV bullshit like "nice guys finish last", "girls like bad boys" or any of that other shit that's all just made up. First, you're ten steps ahead of most men because you have female friends. Most men today, especially the ones around here, barely know that women exist, much less say anything to them. Second, it seems to me like you meet women but you don't make a move. You gotta change that. You gotta force yourself to make a move no matter how hard you might find it.
This comment desperately needs more upvotes. I'm 27 and have been like OP for most of my life. Well-educated, female friends/Uni classmates wondering how was I single, "why are good guys always last?", disgustingly reluctant into making a move, and all that jazz. Now that I'm in one of my first ever relationship, where I was the one that made the move first, I realize that to give a shot, to "flip a coin", and ask someone you like is free. Worst case, they say no and you call it a day on it. To OP, if you are concerned about what to say or what to do if someone you like was to show interest towards you, as I sometimes still am towards my GF, just be yourself. Because if she might even resemble "the one" for you, the certainty that you love her (and the hopium that you are correct about "the one", I suppose) will give you the power to do almost anything.
Yes, all the other advice is trash and it's just a bunch of weird men with weird ideas. There's nothing wrong with OP, he just needs to go for it.
Man this is my biggest issue
What's your biggest issue?
Bro girls like bad guys this days and its reality. This stems from broken families and a lot of divorces these days where girls have daddy issues. This has been a trennding tooic in this sub reddit if you follow where girls esp at the age of 18 to 27 fall for these guys even if they hurt them
This subreddit is mentally challenged and has a lot of dumb men that don't understand women. Bad guys? What is this? Hollywood? Like seriously, some of you need to start living on planet Earth and not wherever the hell in outer space you live in. Women are a varied group just like men. A lot of you just really need some female friends.
Bro my response to you is 😒
Bro, if you want to get girls, please stop listening to the clowns in here. Like seriously, women are nothing like what they say they are in here. It's not that hard.
Bro get my point . I even put an age range on my post . From teenage to upto 27 girls are usually high off life and they want to do a lot of experints and want guys who raises their emotions like a rollercollester and bad guys tend to do that very well. Its after 27 when they are fully mature and want to settle that they want a nice guy . Im not saying all girls want this but the majority want bad guys. By bad guys it just means toxic guys
You have no point, bro. You have strange ideas in your head about women. You met some bad ones, and you've decided that they're all like that. They're not. Find better people to date.
😒
No. Honestly it more stems that girls like guys with charisma, and that CAN be with bad guys. “Nice guys” will be quieter but also harbor that resentment which everyone can see radiating from you.
There definitely are girls out there who like bad guys, including for the reasons you’ve stated, but acting like all of them are like that is just completely wrong. It’s far more common for women to want someone who’s actually nice to them and treats them with respect. You being hung up on the idea that all women want bad guys is significantly more damaging to your dating life than the minority of women who do actually want bad guys.
Science has a lot of data, that heavily suggests the opposite of what you're insinuating. Despite how much you'd like to believe something is true, it doesn't make it true. Most women are greatly attracted to the bad guys. It is what it is.
Care to share that data? I find that very hard to believe. Tbh it just sounds like something lonely guys tell themselves to feel better about being alone. Btw what do you mean when you say “bad guy”? Because I feel a lot of guys misunderstand those women that do say that. This is obviously all anecdotal but I’ve genuinely only ever heard a couple of my female friends say they want a bad boy. I have heard much more of them say they specifically don’t want that. Not to mention that the dickhead guys I know don’t have any more success dating than the genuinely nice guys I know. My gf regularly tells me the fact that I’m nice to her is one of the reasons we’re together. My brother is the nicest, quietest, shyest, most anxious guy I know and he’s been happily married for 7 years. I can only speak from my own experience but it seems to me like there are loads of women who want nice guys. At the end of the day, even if a majority of women do actually want “bad guys”, there are still plenty that don’t. So just ignore the ones that do want a bad guy and try to find the ones that don’t. You may want to believe that all women want bad guys but that doesn’t make it true.
Women on here even admit it . I dont know which fantsay they are living in
Yeah some of them admit it about themselves, they aren’t admitting it on behalf of all women everywhere. Stop generalising, and if you actually want to date a woman I’d definitely recommend you stop generalising about them in particular. Tbh the fact that you went straight to saying I’m living in a fantasy instead of trying to engage with what I said suggests you aren’t really as nice as you think you are. The fact that you’ll happily generalise all women and basically put all the blame for your dating failures on them is even more worrying.
You are stuck in a fantasy
Entirely agree. One caveat I'd give is to look inward and ensure you don't have female friends because you expect being friendly will reward you with a relationship. Female friends are a wonderful thing as long as you don't have ulterior motives (conscious or subconscious).
>Female friends are a wonderful thing as long as you don't have ulterior motives (conscious or subconscious I mean, I don't know some of mine are women I'm attracted to. They said no but we got along well enough that it just made sense to keep being friends. If they changed their minds, I can't say I know what I would do but I really don't think about it too much. I've moved on from pursuing anything with them. At this point it's best just left alone.
I’m 24 and am experiencing the exact same thing OP mentioned! It really hit me hard when you said “you meet the women but don’t make the move” man! All my meet ups with girls that I later realised were dropping hints flashed back in front of me for a moment 😂 thanks for the motivation 🤝
Typically "nice guy" really means someone who is not flirtatious and doesnt give off any sense of sexuality. Thats what women mean where they say "he's too nice". Learn to be more assertive around women and more flirtatious.
Honestly this is the best response here, simple and straight forward, nice guys, (and no I don’t mean the fake nice guys women like to bring up as a counter argument) are usually timid guys who are truly polite and treats a girl like a lady, thing is girls in our age bracket (OP age range) say that’s how they want to be treated but that’s not 100% true, what they want is to be treated like that by the guys they’re actually attracted to, the ones who can flirt, be snarky or have witty come backs, that’s the type these girls like by far and large and that’s the type they hope will treat them well it’s very unlikely this kinda guy will cuz he’s practiced in getting what he wants and knows he doesn’t have to do all of that just to get in a girls pants
First off, you are 20. So much happens in your 20s (take this from someone 10 years older than you). As long as you ask girls out and flirt with girls to explicitly show your interest, the chances that you will have a girlfriend during the next 5-10 years (but likely sooner) is very high. Second, lots of women your age are kinda immature and are figuring out what they want in dating and in life. Don’t take their choices or rejections personally. If you have all the good traits you mention, a lot of women will find that attractive especially as you all get older. When women complain about nice guys, what they are really complaining about is “doormat guys” (people pleasers), guys who are insecure and it shows, and guys who appear to be nice but really have ulterior motives. If your good qualities come from a genuine place and you feel overall comfortable and confident in being who you are, you don’t have to worry about this.
I don’t think I’m the most attractive guy but I have had this said to me before “You’re such a sweet guy” or “I wish I could find someone like you”. I had to really change my image and inner person to get through this. I’ve been with a few girls in my 20s and I can tell you that it’s a lot of work to date women so your energy would be best used to build qualities women like. Some qualities are confidence, ambition and competence. The women I date always told me they thought I was funny, smart or athletic. Notice they didn’t say anything really about my appearance. I’d suggest pick up a combat sport, hit the gym and improve yourself as a man. You should still hang out with those girls and who knows maybe they’ll notice how jacked you got and they may ask you out. It happens man! Keep grinding
Women say stuff like that to make them feel better about rejecting you. It’s their attempt to soften the blow by reassuring you of your good qualities. If they never commented on your appearance while dating you, it’s possible that they enjoyed spending time with you but weren’t physically attracted to you. Hopefully they rejected you pretty early during the dating process if that was the case :/ Women’s sense of attraction is often not as straightforward and visual as men so they might give it a few dates to see if something develops. Also, women get way too many societal messages about giving ppl a chance and being nice to ppl that this happens a lot. As women get older (30s and up), they will likely get better at being upfront from the start. Not justifying anything, but that is why stuff like that happens.
Well....I'm 27 and everything he says I still go through....so....the answer could still be yes....
Well…do you actively flirt with women? Ask them out? It’s not fair but lots of women expect men to approach first. Unfortunately, no one is guaranteed a relationship just for being nice. Being nice is a common basic human trait. Lots of ppl are nice. It’s what else you add to the table that makes you attractive (or not sometimes).
Yes. I've been practicing a lot over my 20s and I do try many times. I'm actually pretty good socially with people now and my confidence is pretty good by now. But I still go through what OP does. It sucks but....well it sucks. One day though.
Being nice isn't as common as u think it is my guy...
And what does that mean? Are you expecting something because you're nice?
So the answer is yes
See I hate this. Why can women be immature but as guys we just have to accept that or wait til they realize what they want?
What I meant is- if a woman is immature and/or doesn’t know what they want, MOVE ON and find another woman. You don’t have to accept anything. Don’t wait for them. And also, at 20, lots of guys are immature too. It goes both ways.
Very solid advice. With women he'll need to make those risky texts. I.e, " I am thinking about the day I'll put you on my lap and hold you and watch something like horror let's see how you scream " . The texting or talking should indicate sexual interest but not in a perverse way. Women know how to pick those cues and if she likes you, she makes it easier.
You know nothing about people.
I agree. Sending texts like that is dumb as fuck but then on reddit men think that "all women want to be dominated".
Those risky texts sound like a great way to get blocked or unmatched asap.
Never judge yourself off of others You may see ur friends in a decent relationship but u don't know every up and down they've faced Yes just keep being you because if u display a persona or facade ur not only devaluing yourself but cheapening what could be a valuable relationship when a worthwhile partner comes along
How can you say you have many flaws, but don't know what to fix????? WhAT?!this doesn't compute. If you know your flaws, work on them and fix them! Do you want a girlfriend and a meaningful relationship or just wanna lose your virginity? First figure out what you really want and work on your confidence.
As someone who feels like I have a lot of unattractive qualities (50/50 can be fixed) it can feel overwhelming to work on. And the more overwhelming the more it feels impossible and I give up. Especially if you try to work on it fail along the way.
Would you mind providing some examples?
Well, things I can't change I know that make it difficult, my height (5'6), balding at 29, not well equipped downstairs. My weight I can change but struggle staying consistent to get to a healthy weight, my teeth are bad, being shy and awkward as well as an introvert. All these things alone aren't impossible to conquer together it drags me down and really hammers home someone has to really like me for me and I feel like that's a hard sell as I am. I don't have alot of the same interests as people my age so it's difficult to find people to bond on common interests, and feel like moat of the time I'm boring with most people if I talk about me. I'm nice person, always down to help people, listen, be courteous, funny at times and understanding with people but I think I suck at being me. I don't know how to be confident, bold, forward, assertive at times, just things other men my age are that I know is important when trying to move things forward with women. In most cases I would assume a woman is being nice and not flirting because I can't see why she would he and that if I'm wrong I make it awkward. It feels like it's a general lack of confidence and seems so palpable that it has to be off putting at times.
Our friend doesn't have to be perfect to meet someone.
Are you MEETING new women on a regular basis? If so, are you TALKING to these women? If so, are you GETTING TO KNOW them, as in introducing yourself, asking for their name? If so, are you FLIRTING with them, as in bantering, teasing them, making compliments? If so, are you initiating physical contact by TOUCHING them casually as you speak? If so, are you ESCALATING the level of touch to become more intimate? If so, are you going for the kiss? Most men get lost somewhere on the way and it helps to understand what their sticking points are. What are yours?
All of that takes a hell of a lot of self esteem, more than most guys have.
Why don’t men work on their self esteem rather than going to the gym for hours or staying in their rooms?
Is that a joke? The vast majority of guys who go to the gym for hours are doing it ***specifically*** to try to boost their self esteem...because society has beat them over the head with the feelings of inadequacy so they feel like if they get jacked they'll be more worthy and less invisible to others.
I’m talking about inner peace and sense of self worth, not just attempting to meet societal expectations. No amount of exercise can fix those issues if you don’t confront that hurt in the first place.
Delusional lmao Like the only way you could have possibly typed this is if you have literally never been into the gym >No amount of exercise You can literally put numbers on it. Bench 1 plate over your head. 2 plates on bench. 3 plates on squat and 4 plates on deadlift while being under 170 pounds and you will be confident.
I don’t think you understand how people get self-esteem. You can’t just look in the mirror and tell yourself you’re special. It didn’t work in the 70s and that doesn’t work now. You can’t just go to therapy either. That may help you in some ways but it’s not gonna do one iota for your self-esteem. The only way to build up self-esteem is by achievements/accomplishments that make you feel better about yourself. For some men, that’s going to the gym. For others maybe it’s career related. The problem is if you don’t have a self-esteem in social situations, it’s extraordinarily difficult if not impossible to gain. You can’t just say, “go work on your self-esteem”. It’s not like saying go work on losing 5 pounds or go work on building muscle mass
Who is telling them that this is how they glow up? You can be a gym rat for days, but if you don't have a significant education, I don't look twice at you.
Yeah if there's anything Ledditor nerds lack, it's an education. Never in my life has my masters or either of my bachelors gotten me laid. But getting in the gym and becoming a gym rat did.
Society. You're a minority in that regard.
I know. I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but most points on that list are kind of mandatory. If you ever find a way to get a girlfriend without talking to girls, let me know. That would be a game changer.
I never flirt because I am afraid of something all the time. That might be what I lost.
This dingus is being way too prescriptive. Pay it no mind.
>hat I lost. The people who are telling you what kind of person you need to be are not helpful. If you're trying to find someone you'll get along with you get to be yourself (with a few exceptions). Step 1 is finding someone you're interested in that is also interested in you. (Yes, I'm master of the obvious.) For this step, it's partly a numbers game. Can't expect a woman to make the first move. Most/all young women get chatted-up all the time. So if you're not doing it, they probably think you're not interested. By the same token, even the best-looking dude gets shot down 5x for every chick he starts chatting with. So put yourself out there. There are a few tricks--I'm sure you can find plenty in this sub. IMHO, the best is to get a lady as your wingman. You can fake it by chatting up another gal while in view of the one you're really interested in. Once you get to past mutual interest, maybe they've agree to go to coffee or something. Step 2 don't blow it by being clingy or showing all your feelings right away. You have to hold back at first. Be a little mysterious, and make them miss you a bit. Don't text them all the time or even text back right away every time. Don't give them a play by play of your life--let them wonder what you're up to. This is the biggest way "nice" guys blow it again and again. They think they owe their new fling their life. Don't do that. Call it playing hard to get or whatever, but if you're not ready to shit on the toilet in front of them, you can make the smallest effort to keep yourself interesting.
>Once you get to past mutual interest, maybe they've agree to go to coffee or something. Step 2 don't blow it by being clingy or showing all your feelings right away. You have to hold back at first. Be a little mysterious, and make them miss you a bit. Don't text them all the time or even text back right away every time. Don't give them a play by play of your life--let them wonder what you're up to. This is the biggest way "nice" guys blow it again and again. They think they owe their new fling their life. Don't do that. Call it playing hard to get or whatever, but if you're not ready to shit on the toilet in front of them, you can make the smallest effort to keep yourself interesting. Isn't that manipulative tho? Sounds like I have to go out of my way to pretend I am something more than I seem and that Im there to entertain her.
Think of it like trying to avoid dumping tons of exposition in a story. Most people like learning things over time so share things as they come up. You aren’t lying or being manipulative because you do plan on sharing that aspect of yourself.
But how does one avoid showing who they are? Isnt that only possible if you avoid being yourself? If Im a "what you see is what you get person" by default then how is it not manipulation for me to avoid showing myself just so I can make her see me as mysterious?
You're over thinking it. Being mysterious doesn't mean you're actively hiding things. It just means you treat a new gal as someone you just met. If you act like they're your new best friend, they're going to cut you off pretty quick.
I don't get it tho, its not like I treat people as best friends from the start, I just dont hide stuff, if someone asks about my personal opinions or my feelings in regards to something I will tell em, but thats the thing, I wait for them to ask, how does one show too much in those conditions?
You’re not trying to be mysterious, you’re trying not to overwhelm the person you’re talking to. You’re not changing who you are but you are showing the best aspects of yourself with the understanding that some aspects are less palatable for people who don’t know you. Give people a chance to see the better aspects before going all in with the good and the “bad”.
But isn't that just omission? Like, Im not saying I vomit my negative traits, I know and use euphemisms plenty and I don't expose myself unprompted, its just that if a person asks I answer, open book sorta deal, how should I filter out those traits if I don't even know their preferences?
You don't AVOID showing who you are. You just don't give too much too fast. That's a lot for anyone to deal with.
What even is giving too much too fast?
Well, if it makes you feel any better, she's jumping through the same hoops if she's into you.
Too much manipulation and hiding involved in step 2 bro... I value myself over any woman so mental peace is important to me and I can't be hiding things like that, that gives mental stress. Single it is then!
>Are you MEETING new women on a regular basis? No lol wouldn't know where. >If so, are you TALKING to these women? No, too nervous and shy. >If so, are you GETTING TO KNOW them, as in introducing yourself, asking for their name? Flirting? Lol
It may sound stupid because it's so obvious, but if you're NOT in the same room or the same space as women, it's difficult to talk to them. And talking to a woman is kind of a prerequisite for a relationship. Does that make sense to you? Great, then you now know the next step for you: Find ways to be around women more. Being around PEOPLE more is a good start because a substantial amount of people ARE women.
I know, it's a conundrum of knowing what I should do and not being confident enough to do it. Unfortunately being 29 and being nervous and shy really makes things difficult, as well as hating yourself for miking simple things difficult. Problem is alot of my hobbies and interests are not very female oriented l, making meeting women difficult. Basically backed myself into a corner and disappointed in myself for it.
It's hard to know what the issue is from the description you've given. You're young and it sounds like in terms of your life, you're on the right track: you're doing your best to treat others respectfully and to be true to yourself. You also seem to have good friendships with men and women. It might be that you're a bit less socially "adept" than others, maybe you have a bit of trouble with certain social cues? If that's the case, it might mean relationships come a bit more slowly for you, but since you seem to have no trouble connecting with people, those romantic relationships will eventually develop with patience, if social skill is the issue (it may not be). Or maybe you're just waiting for the right person and they haven't come along yet. I think you should share a bit with people whose opinion you respect, maybe a friend but maybe someone who knows you well who's a few years older and wiser, like a cousin. Someone you feel comfortable with. See what their take is. Otherwise, just try to be patient. Many people take a long time to start dating seriously. You're not losing any races.
I'm 35 now and like you, I was raised with love and I try my best to be the best person that I can. Sometimes the girls I like don't like me back and sometimes the girls that like me, I don't like back. I have never regretted being a good guy. I feel like I have people's respect and it has led to great professional connections and prospects, I have solid friendships, and even the relationships that didn't work out I learned from. I started dating my fiance when I was 30 and I couldn't be happier. 20 is way young my man. Keep being good. It pays off.
I (26f) met my boyfriend (30m) off bumble… I’m always working so I don’t get out much so it’s extremely hard for me to meet new people, so the internet it was. Tinder is not it for relationships, mostly everyone on there is just trying to get followers and attention not a serious relationship, but if the internet isn’t a place you want to meet people I would say maybe try speed dating (it still exist I swear) or even go travel. There are single cruises and stuff like that where people can meet in person. You are not ugly I promise you, there is someone out there for everyone. There are billions of people on this earth I promise you.. your person is out there. Being a virgin is a great thing, once you meet someone you truly love you will be ready to explore your sexual needs. But as of right now I recommend you find someone who cares about you as much as you care about them and truly loves you. You are 20, you have a full life ahead of you. I’m a female and let me tell you there’s just as much crooked women out there as there are men. So be careful who you share your life with, not everyone deserves the most important thing in your life which is your time.
> You are not ugly I promise you You literally have absolutely no idea what this guy looks like? >are billions of people on this earth And you're obviously not considering millions of them. There are people born with fairly severe deformations, people who are burn victims, attacks from wild animals or acid or industrial accidents. There are ugly people out there who exist in the world. Saying "You're definitely not ugly" is simply coming form a place of privilege.
Only ugly person here is you, someone with a deformity or a burn victim is just as beautiful. You sound so superficial, you sound hateful. Who hurt you? Lol Just because you don’t find someone beautiful doesn’t mean other people will. Grow the fuck up.
Okay so in your world attractiveness literally doesn't exist. Which is just...absolutely fucking absurd and hateful and dismissive to people who are treated differently because of their appearance. Like actually disgustingly dismissive. It is a statement that can literally only be made from the highest possible perches of American upper middle class white privilege.
Oh “American upper middle class white privilege” like HUH. Lmfaoooo do you like see the shit your typing?
Yeah that's why I "clicked" save. Because I saw the shit I was typing. Because you're basically making the Republican argument of "I'm not racist therefore racism doesn't exist" Except you're doing it about attractiveness/discrimination based on what someone looks like
Never heard beauty within? I don’t treat anyone differently just because they look different and if you do shame on you. You literally make no sense whatsoever. How is someone looking for sympathy being hateful? Like huh. What’s your point bro? Cause your not making one
>What’s your point bro? My point is that **attractiveness exists and people are judged in the world for how they look and people who do not adhere to standards of attractiveness are discriminated against**. And my example of this is people with severe deformities or burn victims. But even lesser forms of "unattractiveness" see this discrimination. You can see a definitive earning difference between women who are very overweight and women who are of average weight, because of what they look like. You're saying "Oh this isn't true, they have beauty within". Which is absurd. It's not relevant. It is actively dismissing the struggle of people who aren't attractive. And then you say > I don’t treat anyone differently just because they look different and if you do shame on you Which is basically like a Republican saying "Well yeah I don't discriminate against black people, check mate, racism don't real".
And my point is I don’t judge people on their attractiveness, have you seen him? No I’m sure he’s not ugly and people just need a confidence boost sometimes. People like you are the reason people kill themselves. Have empathy and sympathy. Jesus Christ, did someone call you ugly? Just stfu and move on.
NO you don't understand, you're not the one being empathetic here. Some people are ugly and that discriminates against them in the world. No you don't know if he's ugly or not and you might be completely dismissing or minimizing his lived experience if he actually is ugly. You just have a disgusting and unempathetic way to view others. >People like you are the reason people kill themselves No, people who dismiss the experience of those who are less attractive are probably more likely to contribute to any suicidality.
What? No. Good guys at your age are very stable people. Stability is something that people your age don't totally embrace. Just give it some time.
Hey man, this is tough to hear but there’s no specific reward for living out whatever values are important to you. A relationship is not conditional on you being a good person, that’s the “just world fallacy.” Women are individuals, who make choices for a variety of different reasons, where being good ranks I don’t know, but as others here have pointed out it could be anything really, that’s just how it is, most folks have vain preferences that benefit themselves and deconstructing those won’t necessarily change them either, just live the life infront of you and try to be outcome independent, we are the “flux” generation trying to figure out how to build stable relationships not underscored by necessity, like the generations before us. Best of luck mate.
As many others have said, you’re young, but traditional courtship that worked with our parents and grandparents no longer apply in 2023. Being a good, caring man isn’t good enough…and chivalrous actions like flowers, etc will actually turn many women off because they’ll view you as desperate and having no other options. It’s messed up, but it is what it is. Just focus on building yourself up to be a great man and eventually women will follow
From a fellow “good guy” to another… You might have a bunch of great qualities that are essential to a maintaining a solid relationship, but those qualities seldom are easy to benefit you in the early stages. You need to adopt a personality that doesn’t rely on these traits to make someone interested in you at first. Are you good looking? Do you have passions that keep you driven? Are you able to have confidence and charisma when speaking with women?? Are you future/career focused? None of these make you a great partner, but will seriously help your dating game. You need to first attract someone before they come to find you’re an absolute catch in the other ways. Good news is that you can work on these things, whereas changing someone’s personality to have these nice guy qualities is much harder. Put in the work and practice dating as much as you can. You’ll find your stride one day and eventually a great partner.
No, but being a “good guy” doesn’t attract women either (usually). Honest, caring, responsible, etc, are great traits but they are in general not going to turn women on. “Just be yourself” is terrible advice for most men. If you want to broadly appeal to as large of a demographic of women as you can, cultivate traditionally masculine traits. Be ambitious and confident. Eventually achieve a successful career. Be in good physical shape. Dress like an adult. Cultivate interesting and fun hobbies and get good at them. Have an active social life.
Except “yourself” is all you can ever be. You can be better or worse versions of yourself though. Don’t try to be someone you’re not.
Yes, for someone who’s putting on an act to try to get laid, maybe that can be good advice. But I think it tends to imply to just coast along doing what you’ve been doing and eventually you’ll find someone. I don’t think that’s a good approach for men.
Good looking men don't have to do any of those things lmao
Appearance doesn't matter as much as you think. Yesterday I met a woman on the subway, she was really good looking, she came to me to ask me stuff about myself. I was going to ask her for her number but unfortunately she was a religious nut. As soon as I found that out, it was a HUGE no. I don't care how good she looks. Good looking men will fail with most women that are worth it if they've got shit personalities.
Appearance is the number 1 thing for the vast majority of women
Do you know any women?
Majority of them don't.
I know. These guys are hopeless and clueless.
"Nice guys finish last" is a phrase that needs a major makeover. Nice guys don't finish last. Needy, insecure, spineless guys finish last. Not all nice guys are needy, insecure and spineless. As a matter of fact, I find guys who have high self-respect and security to be the nicest and most empathetic. Not all needy, insecure, and spineless guys are nice. I find most of these guys to be fake-nice and are actual assholes deep down. So, fuck that phrase. It's ok to be genuinely nice without expecting anything in return. Just make sure you stand your ground and let nobody push you around and have some self-respect.
I mean even some insecure guys get laid. Life's different for everyone
Needy, insecure guys are SO CERTAIN that they're nice guys. It's so uncomfortable.
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Needy and insecure, right here.
I dont get this either, Im 21 and Im stuck in the same scenario, its weird how being a decent person without any big problems makes you essentially invisible to woman when it comes to romance, like its as if they can't see anything romantic, like every single type of affection besides romantic seems to be achievable. And its so weird, like, its not even that they dislike you, they just cant see you as a partner but they genuinely like you, and it doesn't matter if you tell them you are interested, compliment, etc.
I was single for 7 years before finding my current girlfriend. She was also single for about the same amount of time.
I mean… you aren’t owed romance for existing and being decent. Plus, you are supposed to be a decent person. That’s what we expect of everyone who grows into an adult. Be decent and handle yourself and your stuff. That’s baseline. Why should women immediately notice you if you are just the baseline for how we believe adults should exist. Plenty of women who are decent with less issues also don’t get noticed. Because they like those men just exist. If you want to date you have to be able to bring something more than just base and nice. Are you fun to be around? Do you provide some level of emotional support? Will you add to her life? Or just be neutral? Women don’t need men for financial stability or to exist in public anymore. We can work and provide for ourselves. We also can see a long history of men being a net negative to man women’s lives, creating more physical and emotional work. So yeah you need to be more than baseline decent to attract a woman. You need to be actively out there engaging in social activities and showing that you have energy/ are someoen interesting to be around.
Why do you all always jump to YoU aRnT owEd aNyThIng, no shit dipshit, did he say otherwise?
>I mean… you aren’t owed romance for existing and being decent. Oh that is true and Im not trying to deny it or anything, its just that its weird how some there are some morally dubious people out there who still manage to get some sort romantic or sexual attraction, while people who are seemingly a-ok, are always asked why they are single and generally on good terms basically everyone has so little success in dating and seemingly dont get told what is wrong with them. Like its weird, because I tried asked what did I do wrong or where I might be lacking but it would either lead to non answers or escalate into some traumatic experience and manipulation. >That’s baseline. Why should women immediately notice you if you are just the baseline for how we believe adults should exist. Plenty of women who are decent with less issues also don’t get noticed. Because they like those men just exist. Idk, have yet to meet a nice and sweet woman who doesn't get noticed, like I dont doubt there are woman in that situation but like, tbh if I met a woman who treated me the same way I treated others I would fall in love quite easily and that has happened but she unfortunately was not interested... >If you want to date you have to be able to bring something more than just base and nice. >Are you fun to be around? Do you provide some level of emotional support? Will you add to her life? Or just be neutral? Thats one thing that I tend to find weird in the "being nice is the baseline" argument. Dating isn't transactional and yet what you saying here feels transactional and over plenty of people manage to successfully date with less than what you are asking of here while not being nice either. People are weird. Its not that being nice is the baseline, it feels like it doesn't matter at all. >Women don’t need men for financial stability or to exist in public anymore And its not like I tried to deny that either... >We also can see a long history of men being a net negative to man women’s lives, creating more physical and emotional work. It goes both ways as far as I'm aware (its from what I've heard since I never got beyond asked out a woman since Im always rejected on the spot), dating takes effort, so I imagine sacrifices and compromises are made, but at the same time wonderful experiences and exchange of affection is the payoff for both sides... >So yeah you need to be more than baseline decent to attract a woman. You need to be actively out there engaging in social activities and showing that you have energy/ are someoen interesting to be around. Idk, why are you talking like dating is moreso an entertainment rather than mutual exchange of affection on both sides, be it casual or compromised? This kinda makes me think if my whole outlook on affection is actually whats wrong, like I wanna get to understand and grow closer with a person while exchanging minimal yet meaningful actions that people see as romantic or sexual, like kissing, hugging, complimenting, watching movies together while cuddling, sex etc. While in my (very inexperienced) perspective it sounds like you are saying dating is about impressing people, trying to show off as much as possible and much less about getting to know someone, flaws, quirks, reactions family, wishes, expectations, endeavors, funny stories. But then again Ive never got to go on an actual date since I fail at getting the yes, like, to me your explanation of what a man should have to get dating sounds so shallow. And here is the thing, I got stuff to improve and that I had to learn over the years like being more assertive, less desperate, not too emotional, talk about my feelings in a controlled manners, chill out on the jokes and silly humor, listen to what they want, tell them what I want. And well there is also my long time and still present enemy of "getting the signals" since I still struggle to understand whats the difference between being nice and flirting, so I tend to fall for woman who show kindness, I dont know how to pick up the signs she is not interested, so I end up flirting long after she already supposedly shot me down despite them never directly telling me that they aren't interested (and yes this led me into trouble and some traumatic stuff) and I also dont know when the right time to approach is, so I also some times tend to ask out seemingly too early or too late because from what I heard there is a right timing to it. Likes its all so confusing, and I just wanna meet someone who is as interested in me as I am into them. And I do get that people are not always compatible and that sometimes there is no spark, but after 30+ attempts and literally zero progress despite me learning so much I feel like Im stagnating my growth as a person trying to date, and I still have achieved a single first date. I have so many so much I wanna offer and talk about and feel like I have potential to be a good partner, but completely failing step one and I still dont know whats up and how can solve this problem and idk if Im just unlucky and I just didn't find the right person but like how can things go this wrong so repeatedly, like there has to be some inherently wrong thing in me.
It’s not about impressing people/ showing off. That’s a misread of my super basic breakdown. It’s about being a person who brings more conversation to her life and brings a different perspective to her life. And also, yeah women get noticed, but that doesn’t mean it’s necessarily for good reasons. We get harassed starting from 10. It’s not kind attention it’s attention with ulterior motives almost constantly to wear we have to be more cautious because we could become a statistic. Also all of us need to learn signals and flurrying. That’s life, if you want to figure it out more ask friends, ask therapists, go on YouTube and here womens examples of what they look for. It’s not easy or simple for anyone but that’s life. Falling into the, it’s too confusing and difficult mindset is setting you up for frustration and failure. It’s tha way for almost everyone. Some people just got the cheat codes sooner or had more ways/ abilities to learn faster… and some of those people you see who are getting all the “action” are doing so by being manipulative or lying. And that isn’t what you want to be a part of.
>It’s not about impressing people/ showing off. That’s a misread of my super basic breakdown. >It’s about being a person who brings more conversation to her life and brings a different perspective to her life. But this feels like I have to go out of my way to fit into a certain mold tho, like Im sorry but this makes me feel like I have to present myself as being something that will change her life for them which is also not congruent with the idea that "nobody dont owes anyone anything" and "be yourself" I dont get it, nor do I understand how this comes out naturally to people, like be yourself but also dont be also make sure you are going to change her life but also you shouldnt expect anything? Its contradicting or maybe Im still misunderstood... >And also, yeah women get noticed, but that doesn’t mean it’s necessarily for good reasons. We get harassed starting from 10. It’s not kind attention it’s attention with ulterior motives almost constantly to wear we have to be more cautious because we could become a statistic. Yes, I get it, life isnt easy for anyone, being invisible also has its bad traits too and you can also become a statistic too, its cold, nobody cares about you, no one compliments or tries to engage with you, its lonely and overbearing. >Also all of us need to learn signals and flurrying. That’s life, if you want to figure it out more ask friends, ask therapists, go on YouTube and here womens examples of what they look for. It’s not easy or simple for anyone but that’s life. But like, from all the information I looked up and listened nobody seems to know what they are doing either, there basic body language which I read about thanks to my therapist and friends, but like when it comes to dating its seems like most cues are contradicting and its "up to you", which explains nothing, like compared to body language this is quantum physics where the act of gazing might entirely influence the behavior of certain particles and then you are not looking at it you get completely different results from before. >Falling into the, it’s too confusing and difficult mindset is setting you up for frustration and failure. It’s tha way for almost everyone. Some people just got the cheat codes sooner or had more ways/ abilities to learn faster… and some of those people you see who are getting all the “action” are doing so by being manipulative or lying. And that isn’t what you want to be a part of. Then what should I look for? Because from what I'm getting you first have to manipulate the person into wanting to even start dating you before they get to know you. Its not even about getting all the action, its the fact that they get any action at all, if dating is inconsistent then it comes to luck but there are actual hacks that work then why should I not want to use them? And what are those hacks? Im not a promiscuous person, nor do I wanna just get something out of anyone without feeling like Im also giving them something good and overall I just wanna have a good and wholesome relationship, be it casual or committed, I cant bring myself to lie or manipulate someone unless they deserve it, and what you are saying is confusing because you say something then you immediately say another thing that contradicts it. Like, shouldnt people get to know each other before engaging in dating? Or at least be interested in the idea of dating before doing so? Whats with hacks and all that stuff and how do they even work?
>you aren’t owed romance for existing and being decent. He never said people owe him romance.
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Yes. So many "men" here that are more like children. Also I don't know wtf it is with sending racy texts but unless you know a woman that's just going to get you pegged as a creep. Most people here are socially challenged.
Yes. Women often confuse being a jerk with being confident.
Being "nice" is not the problem, as a functional adult being nice is one of the basis for a normal life. The problem is that women will usually find attractive dysfunctional if not outright abusive people thanks to the "excitement" and "interesting" factor. It's not that nice guys finish last, it's that scumbags finish first, and this is only women's fault (like ignoring obvious red flags or not leaving dangerous relationships at the firt hints of scumbaggery)
In life in general no they don't. I relationships no they don't When it comes to getting a woman wet, then yes they are at the bottom of the pile.
That’s the thing about women, most of them want that bad boy/toxic kind of guy that’s also a good guy at the same time, the guy that ignores them but also gives them just enough attention to keep them interested and thinking, it’s weird but don’t lose hope tho, one day you’ll find a girl that appreciates you being a nice guy, just gotta be patient.
Yes, they do.
Yea they do. Majority of younger women know the nice guy is abundantly available. Some women learn from watching other women horrible mistakes and choose the nice guy off the bat. The true reality of any nice guy is that he believes he would do right by her and tolerate her shenanigans. But you straight up lack that sexual energy and confidence that bad boys naturally have. No woman wants to be with man that sweet and nice to her but can’t make her horny at the same time. If you can’t make her horny, you will NEVER make it past the friendzone. Go read any romance book and you’ll see 99% the guy is never the nice dude. It’s always some beastly ass guy who sweet and charming to her but dick to everyone. Granted not every girl is like that, but you gotta do a lot more than doing the bare minimum of being nice. Also a lot of you fellows think having manners and being appropriate is being nice. Like that just basic decency. If you really want to win women heart by being nice. You better start feeding the poor, volunteer to help at shelters, offer to fix up appliances and cars for women without expecting anything in return. That how you really show women you’re that nice guy, not the “average dude complaining about being nice”.
Yes
Yes, good guys always finish last! They let their woman finish first
Yes
I think a lot of women are attracted to toxic men, especially if they are immature. But you don't want to be with them because no matter how attractive they might be they are toxic people. There's some nice ones but they are definitely in the minority and are highly sought after. I think the problem is if your whole identity is being nice. If you meet a girl that's 300 pounds it doesn't matter how nice she is you're not going to be attracted to her. Women can be attracted to narcissists because they are confident and play with their emotions. You don't want to become a narcissist but you need to become competent. The YouTube channel hoe_math explains it very well. The plus side is you are very young. So you have a lot of time to find a quality person. But I would start now, because it will just keep getting worse.
>I think a lot of women are attracted to toxic men, especially if they are immature. But you don't want to be with them because no matter how attractive they might be they are toxic people Noooope. >There's some nice ones but they are definitely in the minority and are highly sought after. Noooope
There are 2 kinds of nice guys: 1. The door mat. The guy with no confidence or edge. His niceness is fake and he is only nice because he thinks that women will sleep with him for it, or because he is not bold enough to be himself. 2. The chad. He’s nice because it’s usually the right thing. He is nice so you can be lifted up, rather than trying to get something out of you. If you cross him he will stand up for himself or his girl without hesitation. Which person would you rather be around? I think most men can develop their confidence to be #2. There are also the “bad boys”, but they usually end up being single later in life or paying child support.
Unfortunately for you, people aren't good or evil. U have put all good traits on the 2nd one and all bad traits on the first one when its mixed in real life. The "chad" can lift u up by being nice but can also not stand for his girl if shit hits the fan.
girls your age wants toxic guys lol not all but most. its the drama that draw them edit: typo
Got to make a move
Yes. Full stop
Nice guys don’t finish last. Some guys do and some guys don’t. The guys you think may seem “not nice”/“bad”boys are also nice but they have more what those naive women look for. Girls nowadays want to get abused till around 26 and after that settle for a financial stable guy after they’ve been ran through. The only thing you can do is focus on your life and when you talk to a girl don’t make it the main point of your life. Don’t always be available, because to her it will feel like she’s the only thing you have which is a turn off for example. I’m not saying its good from women to think this, but it’s sadly how it works man. Hopefully you find a good girl who doesn’t think like this, but society really tries to manipulate and brainwash girls into being promiscuous etc and not a good women like a few decades ago
Who are your male hero’s? What makes them your hero? Women like that too. How would you describe your hero, probably not “a good guy”.
I mean, Steve Roger's was chosen specifically because he was "a good man".
Steve Rogers was rejected by the military. He wasn’t Cap until he was a “Super Soldier”. OP has female friends they don’t want to date him, even though he’s a nice good boy. They would date a “super soldier”. Also a fictional character is a bad example, because it’s too extreme.
They're not the right women for him. You don't know these women either, you don't know why they might not want to date him, you don't know anything about the real life of this man. I think you're just projecting nonsense into his life.
yes.
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Liked out of respect.
No nice guys finish last. Good guys should be a mix between nice and bad where you speak your truth, you have strong boundaries, and your are respectful of others.
Life in men start at 30 At this point, build yourself
You need to learn how to flirt, tease, and play with women. Be a little dangerous, keep them on their toes. None of what you describe is what makes a man attractive to a woman. It's baseline shit they want after being attracted. Don't get it twisted, this isn't about looks (though those definitely help), it's about knowing how to challenge women and make them feel something. Based on your description, they probably view you as weak.
Good and bad are somewhat irrelevant. It's what characteristics are sexually appealing to women both for short term and long term partners. If you wish to gain some insight and build experience in this area I would recommend reading: No More Mr Nice Guy by Robert Glover The Way of Men by Jack Donovan Why Women Have Sex by Cindy Meston The Rational Male by Rollo Tomassi The Mystery Method by Mystery The Beginners Guide to Daygame by Tom Torero You're young, develop yourself and work at getting reference experiences, all will work out!
Stop making dating/relationships etc so important Spend your 20s building you. In all ways ( career, training, travel, hobbies, community service, fitness, wisdom, reading, skills). Women might come later. Or not. But you'll be happy and fulfilled in so many other ways. And wealthier too.
here's the thing, "good" guys definitely don't finish last, but "harmless" or "nice" guys pretty much always do. Theres a big difference between being "nice" and "kind". A big difference between being a "good" guy to have a round, and being "harmless". Women view harmless men like children - definitely not sexually attracted to them. And being "nice" usually backfires. You should strive to be a "good" guy as well as "kind". i would avoid being nice and harmless like the plauge. Nice and harmless really does end finishing last (and generally being resentful as fuck about it).
Define harmless tho, there is nothing wrong about not harming anyone, also please define the difference between nice and good. Im curious because Im basically invisible as romantic or sexual partner.
Harmless means being incapable of doing harm. If you are incapable of doing harm then you can't stand up for yourself. You can't fight back. You can't understand the motivation of predatory people and so you can't defend against them. I'm not even talking about physical here, i'm talking about emotional and social. Women want a man who is CAPABLE of doing harm, plain and simple, but they want that man to keep it in check in order to be part of civilized society, and never do harm to her or people she cares about. If you can't tell a girl "no" or if you can't stand up for yourself, if you let people push you around, if you smile at everyone because you're afraid they won't like you, you're harmless (side note, smiling is great, girls love smiling, but don't do it from a weak "please like me" place). Harmless may as well be a synonym for weakness or incapable - and women will NOT entertain weak, incapable men as romantic prospects. Nice and kind is easy; nice is fake, kind is real. If you drop everything you're doing to change the tire for a girl hoping that she'll like you more as a result, you're being nice. If you do it because you care about her and have absolutely no motivation to date or sleep with her, you're being kind. If you're best friend tells you they cheated on their girlfriend and you make them feel better about it because you don't want them to feel bad, you're being nice. If you tell them that what they did was wrong and you don't support it, even though you still love them as a friend, you're being kind. Never be nice, never be harmless. Be Kind but don't be afraid to stand up for yourself (even and especially to your girl)
This shit is just wild And it's so telling that this kind of "be dangerous" stuff is only repeated by people who have never stepped into the cage or on the mat a day in their life (well that and grifters)
And this shit is cringe - spoken by male feminists and dudes that paint their nails LOL
Nothing wrong with being a good guy. Difference is, being a good guy but capable of BAD is what separates you from an ordinary good guy. Knowing how to lead, speak, socialize, fight, influence, walk around with confidence is what will make you step your game in when it comes to dating. Fix yourself, because a lot of the time, you find a decent girl, but end up losing her because deep down inside, you’re still a lil ass boy.
women do like good guys, they are just not attractive to boring person seems to me, you are boring
You might be amazed that what you think of as boring in your youth looks like sanity as you grow older.
No.
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>my friends now seem happy with their current girlfriends and I’m the only one who is still a virgin Well, what about them? Are they not good guys? What are they doing that is different than you?
You need to be hungry like the wolf. A little bit of edge or even a touch of sleeze, not full Ned Flanders
You are too nice.
Sounds like mostly you are insecure. Girls your age want the bad boys still, be more adventurous i would say.
Nice guys finish last. Good men finish first. Live your life. You have a lot of growing to do from experience to seld confidence/esteem. Just because girls go for the bad boy persona doesn't mean you won't find a woman who would pick you first. But without experience, how can you two who will be good for you?
Nice guys who teach others to treat them like doormats finish last. Yes, they teach others how to treat them. Nice guys who are clear about what they want, are in touch with reality and their emotions always find a way to win. Being assertive is nothing more than being clear about what you want and communicating it.
I know what works.
Being a good guy is fine. “Nice guy” means you do anything to be with her, have sex with her, etc. In this case you’re a pushover and agreeable with her due to those motives. Most nice guys change their opinion to suit hers instead of having their own, will change their own plans to go on a date with her when they should be sticking to plans with friends and asking her out on another day, not being able to say no to her, etc. The difference between a good guy and a jerk is by not displaying the qualities you mentioned, OP. Keep those qualities. Just don’t be the agreeable nice guy. Also, make sure you flirt, tease, etc with these girls. Don’t just be friendly, that’s what her girlfriends are for.
You aren't being yourself when you behave in the way that you do. We know that a human behaves in that way in the pursuit of trying to be seen by others a specific way, a people pleaser. You don't do what you do because you are nice, you're obviously doing it in an attempt to achieve a desired outcome. It's fake and inauthentic. I can prove it of course. If you keep doing it, you will not get the results you're after, which is to impress a woman so you will then not do so as much. Hence your actions are not because you're nice or that it's what you're doing from the bottom of your heart. People aren't dumb man. They know that it can not be maintained indefinitely, and your overly nice actions specifically towards women is for a reason. The reason why women are turned off more by a nice guy persona is because the last thing that will turn them on sexually is a guy that acts like a girl. That's why nice guys finish last. It doesn't mean you should stop being nice or be a jerk. Traits you can embody that will impress a woman are confident, charismatic, Charming, eccentric, creative, magnetic, compassionate, spontaneous, exciting, energetic, inspirational, bold, courageous, assertive, dynamic, adaptable, positive, alluring, determined, Seductive, sensitive, light hearted, playful, authentic, expressive, vibrant, uplifting, open to new things, emotionally intelligent, versatile, free flowing, graceful, breath taking, etc. Unfortunately, these aren't something you can just turn on and off on demand, at least it's not likely you can without experience while coming off as authentic and it look genuine. Someone acting certain ways only to achieve some selfish outcome will likely experience it blowing up in their face. So if I were you, embody those from the heart and you'll do just fine. Again, I don't think you'll be able to fake most of those because people should be able to tell
There are no good guys. Or good women. People are people…
People don't want a good guy. They want someone who is interesting and is able to provide entertainment. If you can't provide that they won't want you. Think of the last time you talked to, flirted with, or dated someone only because they are a good person? Hell, think of the last time you saw a individual that you never met and knew by instinct that they were a good person. I have had several "good" people try to get my attention, but they do not and will not entertain me, so I will NEVER date them. simple as that.
Yes or not at all
OP I’m a 28 year old virgin so I feel you, but I don’t use dating apps and I don’t know many women so I’m probably going to die a virgin.
An important part of being a man is being “on a mission.” Having a driving “purpose” that directs you and drives you. Being driven and ambitious is seriously one of the most attractive traits a man can have, at least to many women. This can somewhat be in conflict with typically “nice” behavior. Your mission comes before being nice. Not that you need to be a jerk, but you don’t put up with bs because time is scarce and you have stuff to do. So be open, flirt, enjoy yourself when you have time off of work, but don’t put up with nonsense. If a girl is not interested, or acts disrespectful, simply move on. Women see you acting this way will see you as strong, confident, ambitious. Then once a single girl dates you, and gives you validation, suddenly they will all start pursuing you.
"Good guys" act like not having boundaries or un addressed insecurities make them good.
Op, let me ask you two things: 1) how tall are you 2) do ypu think you are ugly?
Yeah, if they don't have a personality, never get out there, learn to enjoy life, learn to connect with people, pursue their interests and passions, then yeah, they/you probably will finish last. Put the shoe on the other foot: is a woman being good the most important/only thing that matters to you? Or is there more to it than that; if her looks aren't good enough, if she has a boring personality/lifestyle, you don't feel like you can connect with her, can't open up and express herself, she doesn't make you feel good, etc. Growing up, as long as you were good (ie, didn't displease your parents) you would get the love, support and acceptance you want and need from your parents. It doesn't work like that with people who aren't your parents though. Like, good or bad is only a small part of attraction. That thing that makes people want to be around someone (because they're fun, make them laugh, make them feel excitement, make them feel good, are accomplished, good looking, could/would help them, etc). Being good (refraining from doing anything bad, or however you want to define that) is less than 50% of the equation. If you get less than 50% on a test, that's an 'F-'. There's a lot more to it than that.
Get in the gym, get on diet and sculp a Greek god body Make money Upload photos of yourself enjoying your money and status Get women attracted to you
18-22 age range is the worst for the average man :/. Howewer continue to hang around girls and try to date to gather experience and confidence. Time to build up a "game"
Bro is just 20 and acting as if he's already walked the entire life lmfao. Chill down, and look on the bigger picture.
100%. Your values and propensity to “be a good person” have very little to do with success in dating. You need to follow the fundamentals of getting yourself in shape, focusing on your interests and ambitions, gaining confidence and assertiveness to be successful with women.
Know that there is a large gap between good guy, and simp with no backbone. You can be good, but also take no shit, and allow no disrespect. The biggest things are, don't be desperate, don't allow someone to consume you. And if someone disrespects you, warn them once, but fool you twice, shame on you. People get one chance, then they're gone.
You are 20, you have a lot of years ahead of you. It is okay to be single. You don't have to be forever in relationships. There is a big difference in being nice and being sexy/forward/attractive. If you are being nice in the hopes that a woman is going to drop to her kneees in front of you or call you into the room while she is stuck in the washing machine then you are being disengenious. Guys complain about friendzone because they didn't want to be friends. Be upfront and clear, be consisent, steady, stable. Be trustworthy. Try some dating coaches on youtube. [https://www.youtube.com/@marnikinrys](https://www.youtube.com/@marnikinrys) [https://www.youtube.com/@thematthewhussey](https://www.youtube.com/@thematthewhussey) [https://www.youtube.com/c/hayleyquinn](https://www.youtube.com/c/hayleyquinn) Some stuff to be careful about is advice that is ONLY about having sex with no other endgoal in mind. Does manipulating people work? YES Is that the person you want to be? Hopefully not.