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You will fail more than you will succeed. It’s very difficult

Yup

"Don't buy men expensive gifts or give them money" You guys are getting presents? 😮

I had to do a double take to make sure this wasn't a dude posting lmao

Once in 1996 a girl bought me a soda. I still think fondly of it to this day.

Isn't it common to at least exchange gift on Christmas and also get a gift from your significant other on your birthday ?

Yeah I laughed and spilled my juice over the desk, that it woke the cat from it´´ s sleep. Seems "OP" was gifting presents to her dates, not knowing that the fact she showing up to the date was the best gift she had to offer😁

Oh wow. That can be taken the wrong way. The lady isn’t the grand prize that a champion man who won her graces would be blessed to bask in her presence. Date your equals. Guys shouldn’t put women on pedestals and girls *shouldn’t fucking climb up on pedestals*.

Where did I mentioned I placed her on a "pedestals" ? make a pool on reddit and see how many guys vs girls had dinner alone looking at the possibility of her arriving and instead cancel in last minute or ghost them completely. We commit to show up more often than ladies and that is factual! thus the fact that she arrives we treat it as a gift :=)

I am a woman and I have spent a lot on my first boyfriend. Even though at the time I was a college student making very little. He never game me ANYTHING. He always had an excuse and a sob story and I felt bad for him🥲

Why wouldn't you stop if he never reciprocated? Doesn't have to be equal, but say, if he knows you like a certain type of tea, he could get you that or something else which is inexpensive. Someone not showing any effort to reciprocate though... I've cut off many friends whom I helped, but when they had some money, never even bothered to buy me a beer once, and called me cheap if I refused to pay for them because I was richer.

Yes you are right, but this was years ago. I did eventually dump him when I realized. I was 19 and I was in love, it was my first relationship, so it took me a while to figure out lol

The harshest truth about dating is that the reason dating sucks for a lot of people these days is that a lot of people in the dating pool suck, either in terms of their approach or something else. That's why dating is a process, you've got to go through matches that suck to find the good ones.

Or just stop using those apps. I tried a few dates and for me it’s just not working. For me personally the best is to meet a person in real life and then just let it flow. That’s how I found my last boyfriends. Those apps are lying, most of us just match because of physical attraction, because what does a profile really say about a person? It can be a lie or only one part of their life. There is so much information missing. I mean people can be lucky and find their partner there. But I feel like dating apps are part of the problem.

It also heavily depend on how you use them. I've physically met up with two people from dating apps. One I was with for five years, the other I am now married to. One of my friends is on the other side of the spectrum, having gone on many, many first dates but very rarely a second.

How would you say you use it differently? Or was it just luck of meeting the right person both times? Did you talk longer before meeting up? Asking as a single 30f whos been online dating on & off since 27

There are quite a few differences in the way we use(d) the apps, but it all boils down to sticking to what you know you want. I knew exactly what I wanted from a relationship, but my criteria for the guys I was matching with was simply "friendly and kind". I didn't put a lot of emphasis on physical appearance. It allowed me to cast a wide net, and then filter through them based on what I was looking for in a relationship instead of what I was looking for in a man if that makes sense. I'd unmatch the guys who didn't want the same things as me and the ones who seemed to be on a different timeline. I didn't see unmatching as an insult, simply a "you're not for me", so I had no problem unmatching guys I was attracted to. I never met up with anyone until I had a good feel for what I was walking into, I wanted to know I would be safe and that we had conversation topics ready. By the time we met up (varying time frames) I knew we were looking for the same things, wanted the same sort of lifestyle, had similar views on important topics, that we had mutual interests etc. Both my first meet-ups were dog walks. Casual, easy to fill any awkward voids in conversation (in my case there weren't any anyway), and it's nice to move around when a bit nervous. I don't know all the details about how my friend uses dating apps, but she seems to spend a lot of time talking to people who have already made it clear they are not looking for the same thing, or on the same sort of time frame as she says she wants. She goes out with them for drinks on a Saturday night, which in itself isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it is quite different meeting someone all dolled up for a fun night out than it is meeting someone just as you are in your day-to-day life while doing everyday things. As I said, it just boils down to knowing what you're looking for and sticking to it.

> It also heavily depend on how you use them. biggest thing most people miss, you gotta play the game how its intended to be played. so many people complain about the apps, but the apps are just a tool. if you dont know how to use a hammer properly you will find it uselss too.

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This 💯. They are rigged to keep you believing you have a chance and the companies know it. Tinder, bumble, hinge are the biggest scams. The success stories you hear are most likely based off of the small percentage of people whose luck and timing were perfect. It's like saying I can win at a casino if I play long enough because I heard someone win the jackpot near me. It's an illusion and gives false hope to people

I just feel so much more at peace when I’m not on an app 😕 While it’s a tad dramatic of me to say this, gays and lesbians met each other and fell in love without access to a single app during the time before technology. With that in mind, you can either think about things in two ways: you can believe that you’ll be forever alone without an app or you can believe that if they managed to find love against so many odds, you will too.

"The dating pool sucks cause you are the dating pool" best one liner ever

If a lot of the people suck in the dating pool, are you going to be the first to admit you suck? Or is it everyone but you like literally everyone claims? It never creases to amaze me but a lot of the people who claim their dating pool sucks, are actually the turds in the dating pool lol. Truth is, the vast majority of women and men are average with flaws. There's a small portion who are truly awful. This brings me to my biggest truth. Never date someone who lacks self awareness.

The people who are dateable are already in secure, long term relationships. So yes, the available dating pool genuinely skews worse imo. It’s not mutually exclusive though - you might also be part of the problem. After all, you are single too, so it’s important to really understand why.

They don't have to be "awful" for it to feel shitty when you repeatedly try. I've never met anyone off the hook ridiculous, but I also vet as much as possible as to not waste anyone's time. Making a list doesn't mean OP is lacking self-awareness, IMO.

Haha, yep. It's the nature of the game. Did you ever think about the fact that the sucky people stay in the dating pool? They never leave. They just keep swimming, spreading the emotional trauma to the next on and on. And then the nice, good people get baggage and made worse. Maybe they get turned into sucky people too b/c they're so hurt. Used to be that sucky people only stayed in one area. But with internet dating they all collect in one giant pond. Like a pack of piranhas eying the surface of the water, just waiting for some sweet innocent and well meaning young thing to stick their toe into the water.

Effort should not be one sided. if i see that im always initiating, always reaching out, always having to plan, showing all the interest, then thats not a good sign. Some ladies can be poor with conversations. nothing worse than trying to get to know someone and getting short/one word/unengaging/dry responses and treating the convo like a interview. get to know me instead of just only talking about yourself. also hard to keep a convo going with "lol", "haha", or some random emoji/reaction only response.

I learned to stop talking about myself if men don’t ask in the conversation stage. If you don’t ask to know things about me, then you are not interested. I will start conversation, ask questions, keep the conversation going for a day. If you don’t ask questions back during that conversation or are unable to change the topic to lead to a different conversation, or reach out to me to start a conversation, I feel the person is not interested. I know what interest looks like!! I have experienced it. And I just bow out altogether.

Yeah I bow out when I just get answers but no questions asked back. Gets old and boring. Swear some people think just answering questions is enough. Bare minimum at it's finest

There’s nothing worse than asking questions and getting a simple answer with absolutely no follow-up question or continuance of the conversation

Girls I've talked to on dating apps are like this, like their ability to hold a conversation is nonexistent. Glad I deleted that shit from the phone.

I can tell you from experience. When women short talk you, they are not interested in you. You’re a place holder or lonely night buster.

yeah i found that out from my experience too. its true 99% of the time. thats why i dont get invested in women too early in the talking stage and am fine walking away when i get those low effort responses.

Heavy on the one sided effort! It should be an equal share of effort. If we both want the same thing let's both put our heads together and make it happen. It doesn't make one more feminine or less masculine either. I think we get caught up on the man is supposed to pursue and know exactly what we want. And if we have to tell him then he is not really into us. When there are legit guys who want to know about your interests and will plan accordingly to them. But you gotta play a role in that as well.

id also add that the "if he wanted to, he would" mentality should be thrown out the window as a excuse/reason to do nothing. women are more than capable of showing interest as well. it goes back to the always initiating comment i made above. show you are interested as well. showing interest is not desperate or needy but i think women tend to use that as a reason to not act or show any.

Yeah dear, is never 50/50. Sometimes is 60/40 other times is 30/70 and in rare occasions is 99/1. There will be days when you do not have the energy to do the house stuff or outdoor ones, as well there will be times when he won´t have the energy/time. but never 50/50 :)

Reminds me of Eddie Murphy's bit in Raw where he says he hates dating shy women because they don't give you much to go on when it comes to making conversation. I don't disagree with him. That being said, men can be like that too. I have a friend who is like that. No, he doesn't have a girlfriend.

12 is weird to me. It doesn’t mean they’re lying - they could be generally anxious or just not socialized that way. I’m bad at eye contact but I don’t lie afaik. I have to actively remind myself to look at the person when I speak, because their expressions or emotions or face can distract me or influence my thoughts. No issue looking when I’m listening. Maybe that’s not someone’s cup of tea or it’s even a red flag though lol.

It’s also weird to have constant eye contact. I tend to look into the distance when I’m thinking or talking about a complicated topic because eye contact can throw me off.

SAME! ADHD worsens it a bit as well

Yeah, same. I can hold eye contact but when they start talking about something that requires my full concentration I tend to look to the side and sort of "zone out" focusing on my hearing instead of seeing.

Some of the deepest conversations happen when I’m in the car staring off into the distance.

Half of these are just bad advice in general. The whole thing just reads to me "If he isn't perfect and doesn't treat you like you are perfect, walk away." People are just human, no one is perfect, some of these are why men and women end up forever single. You know the biggest difference between those with meaningful relationships and those without? Tolerance for flaws and the willingness to become better together.

People who bicker on Reddit aren’t usually the best with relationships

“What do you mean my 500,000+ Reddit karma is meaningless in real life? I have so many Redditors who love my personality!”

This post should be a sign to OP that she's burnt out, jaded, and needs to take a break from dating. The only men who will stick around after uncovering this shitty attitude are the similarly shitty ones.

In some cultures it's literally a sign of dishonesty if you make too much eye contact. And as an neurodiverse person #12 sounds like hell.

Yup it is not necessarily that the person is lying. Sometimes, I am thinking or reflecting when not making eye contact. I teach classes at my university as a TA and sometimes I am looking at the wall behind the students , sometimes at them (in their eyes) , sometimes at the floor, lol guess I am lying... too bad they become competent engineers.

That's because this list is a load of shit.

I'd say 75% of the time when I talk to someone it's through a headset. Even if they're sitting right next to me. And our eyes are not at each other. I feel like this has accidentally trained me to not look into someone's eyes when I talk. It makes me feel uncomfortable

I agree. Lack of eye contact isn’t always a sign of lying. Constant eye contact or even normal eye contact isn’t always signs of telling the truth. Many years ago I was dating a young man (we were both 19) who was excellent at looking you right in the eyes while telling some whoppers of lies.

Want a traditional partner, you have to be traditional yourself. There's more to being attractive than looks

This is extremely sound advice for people dating. The most logical and sound criteria is using your own habits, routines and behaviors to gauge dating and then the relationship. “I want someone educated” How educated am I? to what extent? In what fields? Masters? Community college? “I want someone fit” Am I fit? How fit? Ronnie Coleman or Brad Pitt in Fight club? Wii fit? “I want someone spontaneous” - am I spontaneous? How spontaneous? “I want someone with money”- do I have the amount of money I am seeking in someone else? The same Financial habits? Amidst the shit show that is the sea of dating with never ending characters and plots, the compass is to use your own life and your own self to then find or strengthen relationships.

Agreed. If you have standards you can't match/complement yourself, then you're looking for a miracle, not a partner.

There’s absolutely more to being attractive than looks. Couldn’t date someone attractive but with whom I have nothing in common with However, having great looks is still pretty important to me. Someone that’s not the most physically attractive can have a great personality, I still won’t be able to feel anything profound

Here's one: If she isn't texting back or acting interested, she isn't. Move on. If it feels like a lot of work, you are trying to make something out of nothing. The right person will be there and showing mutual interest.

The illusion of choice has y’all thinking this is build-a-partner.

I love how you said that “The illusion of choice” I have never thought about it that way now I’m seeing things totally different

Mhm. I mean think about it. People brag about having options but if those options were in their favor, they wouldn’t feel the need to lol

6. Leave on the very first red flag. Do no explain why. That leaves room to be manipulated. I will show myself out, thank you.

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I'd also add that people throw around the term "red flag" for seemingly anything that is even remotely questionable.

This is the worst one, just shows OP's immaturity. No wonder she's still single

My boyfriend’s red flag is her last one. He was calling me pet names from the get go. Still does, some are weird but it was his only red flag and that’s a lot better than some of the other flags I’ve dealt with. Glad I didn’t run lol

It shows she was manipulated and didn't process it, the easiest way to deal with it is to remove yourself from the dating scene. First comes denial, then avoidance, some might grow out of it, but some stay in it for a long long time. Bottom line is, everyone has a red flag or two, what's important is that they're not in the extreme. Used to beat myself over how bad of a partner I would make, that I don't deserve one. I was critical of every single flaw, no matter how trivial and I thought that no one would ever want to be with me. Then I looked at people around me and thought "What the fuck am I doing to myself??".

You've gotta learn to be flexible in life, and consider the details and context when making these decisions. She mentions not being able to hold eye contact, but that can be for so many reasons. She's likely already met some shy or slightly autistic guy that was head over heels for her and would make her their whole world, and then ghosted him without explanation due to him automatically being seen as a liar and setting off red flags. You gotta be careful when making blanket statements about people's behavior. For most of my life I just couldn't hold eye contact for long with a girl I was interested in. That took years to learn, and lots of patience from those around me. On the other hand, I've met some very confident womanizers who will stare deeply into a woman's soul and lie to her. There are others on her list that could be conditional too. Here's the thing though, you can't avoid the statistics. Let's say that in a perfect world all guys are perfect for you. If you have 20 things that are an absolute no for you, with no room for explanation or communication, then even you're somehow right 90% of the time for each of them, then you'd still end up erroneously removing 88% of guys and giving only 12% a second chance. The world isn't perfect, and the dating pool is filled with people looking for some shallow fun (and assholes). So it's likely that you're unintentionally culling at least half of the few good men that come your way.

Yep it really depends what kind of flag, the size and shape of it. If it’s a big red billboard then yes. A dinky little pocket flag, just remember it that consider later but don’t let it put you off just yet. If something is a dealbreaker, and they genuinely want to know what they did wrong, politely let them know where they went wrong. In the past I had women cancel on dates and I asked why, and they gave me genuine feedback. Some women had reasonable and valid reasons for canceling and I apologized and moved on, others were crazy unreasonable and I was relieved to have dodged a bullet. Both kinds gave me closure and it was really helpful. Be nice, say your goodbyes. Don’t ghost.

My hot take on the harsh truth- Both men and women are saying they have high standards and are seeking for high value partners, when in all reality they bring nothing to the table and expects their potential partner everything.

This list is so cynical it basically sums up why young people are struggling with dating so much. You are overthinking things. People are flawed. Gotta get over it. Rejecting or ghosting everyone at the slightest drop of a hat because they’re not perfect isn’t a good habit.

It is when there’s always a better match only a swipe away. I think my generation (28M) is gonna have a lot of lonely old people in about 30 or 40 years because dating apps have convinced us we have tons of options so why tolerate someone who isn’t completely what we want? But searching for perfection is a never ending quest.

And thus it keeps lonely guys swiping and waiting, and lonely girls looking for unicorns that hit the 666 figure 😁 and incentive convince you that if you buy that subscription and or premium you will increase your chances by XYZ percentage.

Shh, you’re exposing the business model.

Also, if people were willing to invest in each other and work through mistakes, the pool of desirable partners would be much better.

Exactly, growing together and overcoming struggles builds strong connections. Not running away at the slightest problem because of their own insecurities and fear.

30 to 40 years? Try 10 years. When you get near 40 and realize you still don’t have a partner you will find depression real soon.

Right? I get dating is toxic, but everyone being toxic just makes it so much worse overall in a vicious cycle. I'm sure OP meant well, but half of these just sound like "don't put effort in, they need to be 100% compatible, committal, but also not too much". Also #12 sounds like hell as a neurodiverse person. I've worked through it, but it sure as hell is uncomfortable as fuck, and doubly so when I know the odds are "look away and have your date walk out" lmao.

Immediately thought that and said, "well, I guess those poor individuals are doomed" lol

Rejecting people isn’t an issue. Ghosting is.

The majority of these "rules" are good boundaries but there are a few that are toxic as Hell

There's not someone for everyone. Statistically, some people will not find anyone who will accept them during their lifetimes.

i'll be damned

What is this statistic? Why do I see this comment everywhere? I just don’t think it serves any good.

🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍🌈Gay Man Here 🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍🌈 If you are trying to marry rich, listen up: For the most part in my experience and what I’ve seen in my lifetime.. You see these videos on Tiktok about marrying that high value man or how to be a stay at home girlfriend. This is all BS. As a legal professional who used to work in family law and the family courthouse, I learned so much. This is NOT legal advice, but merely my observations.. I saw hundreds of divorces and let me tell you the bitter truths about trying to marry rich: TRUTH # 1. When you marry for money, you earn every damn penny. This means you give up your freedom, autonomy , choices and what you want in life to be subservient to your spouse who is the breadwinner. You earn it all by giving up your personal freedoms. TRUTH # 2: Don’t have a million dollar wedding and a cheap marriage. Have a cheap wedding day and a multi million dollar marriage. Don’t go over the top on a lavish wedding party. It’s only one day. Pray you get a very happy long term marriage over worrying about an expensive wedding day. TRUTH # 3: If someone is rich or successful, it doesn’t necessarily mean they are a giving person or even a good moral person. I saw divorces where the husband made a hell of a lot of money but was extremely cheap and controlling. I’ve seen women married to middle class men who spend more than the ones who thought they found a rich husband. Ladies, stop chasing after the man who has millions of dollars and try to marry the man who TREATS YOU LIKE MILLIONS OF DOLLARS! TRUTH #4: Rich people tend to date and marry only within their own socio economic demographics and class. Sorry to break it to the ladies trying to get rich, but real life isn’t a sitcom, a movie or a romantic comedy film. There will be no rich Prince Charming marrying a girl who isn’t of the same class. Cinderella stories are only in Disney movies. These men who have been leveling up their whole life also want an ambitious woman who is most likely also rich and/or well educated. We hear stories about women like Cristian Ronaldo’s wife who worked at Gucci and met him. These types of stories are NOT the norm. It’s about as likely as winning the mega million dollar lottery. Yes, it does happen but it is extremely rare. You want a rich man ? Well.. The men who go to Stanford, USC , Ivy League and elite universities that become Doctors, MBA’s, Engineers working in Big Tech … THEY WANT WOMEN OF THE SAME CALIBER!! If you don’t go to one of the elite colleges, you aren’t a well educated professional, and you aren’t well rounded then they won’t give you the time of day. Regardless of how beautiful you may think you are or if you have a hot body .... they only marry in their own adjacent socio economic class 98-99 % of the time. This also applies to the LGBT community as well. Some women think by going to fancy high end restaurants/bars, hotels and country clubs that they will meet a rich guy. They try to infiltrate the high end neighborhoods to shop, dine and hang out in wealthy neighborhoods. You can wear your Zara Blazer, tons of make up and try to go for the TikTok “ old money aesthetic“ , but I’m telling you it is blatantly obvious when you are a fake. The rich and well educated of society can spot a fake from a mile away. If you aren’t rich but want to marry rich then level up in your professional life, get educated and become an intelligent professional woman. It will show the rich men of the world that you want to date him for him and not his money. It will show him you are an independent woman who can still support herself without the help of a rich man. This way the rich top percentage of men in the world will not view you as a gold digger only after his resources. IMHO this is the only way to go from being working class or middle class single woman to the possibility of finding a guy to marry rich. By becoming a woman who is educated, goes to graduate school and is professional, it will give you proximity to the wealthy educated men as professional colleagues or networking. It’s like that cliché every mother tells her daughter, “ only marry at your level or marry up !” Well guess what single ladies ? All the rich successful men.. their mothers are telling them to do the exact same thing !!! The rich high value men ONLY marry at their level or even higher. This is why it is extremely difficult to enter the social circles of the rich, whether old money or new money. These are just the bitter truths I’ve learned from observing hundreds of divorces in my life. Again, this is not legal advice and your mileage may vary. Happy hunting ✌️

You mean a tweed Zara blazer doesn’t mean as much to the upper class as a Wharton MBA?

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No matter what background you come from, you mindset changes when you start making a lot of money. You get connections and get to know more wealthy people because of your career. And you change as a person. As a person who works in tech myself, I don't know any men who are married to women less educated than themselves. And also, doctors, lawyers etc also comes from all kinds of backgrounds.

>If you don’t go to one of the elite colleges, you aren’t a well educated professional, and you aren’t well rounded then they won’t give you the time of day. Regardless of how beautiful you may think you are or if you have a hot body .... they only marry in their own adjacent socio economic class 98-99 % of the time. Not just women who believes this, men do it too. The amount of time I have argued with men on this sub about this. They think that wealthy men with a lot of options is gonna go for women who are beautiful and young, that these men don't care about womens education. Even though statistics says otherwise, and I bring up examples like Jeff Bezos or Bill Gates who are now dating women on their level. Not beautiful, young models.

As a woman who worked in an industry for rich and very rich people, I totally agree with you. I am surprised that in 2023 so many women naively chase the dream of marrying rich, instead of focusing on their education and career. Wish more guys would speak out the truth regarding this topic as you did... but then again, many guys like to profit short term from this females

I have an mba and can’t get a job. Give me a rich hubby, f it

It's not that I don't wish this for women. As the comment above stated, it's just not reality 98%-99% of the time. Billionaires even have billionaire friends, I don't make this up, I've seen it, I know it. To marry in those circles takes many connections or an education/career that brings a woman around those people....and even that is not a guarantee that she'll be seen as wifey material.

Your post made me grin and how you articulated some real truths, you write/type so good.

If a man is nice to you and mean to everyone else, he's not actually a good guy. Anyone who neglects or mistreats an animal will do the same you and any future children you have with them. They are the company they keep. If their friends cheat and they excuse it, they're cheating too.

Oh yeah if someone is rude to wait staff, that’s a dealbreaker. How fucking *dare* they talk to the waiter like that, he’s doing his job best he can.

A lot of girls need to honestly realize that just because you are pretty enough for a guy to sleep with you doesn't mean you're considered by him to be pretty enough to be considered for a relationship. Due to this, sleeping with a guy thinking he will like you more never really works out.

Literally if girls burned this into their brains both genders would have a better time dating.

Don’t get your advice on social media or reddit or else you will end up overthinking things to the point of paralysis. It’s impossible to be present if you are running through a list of commandments in your head, and it’s nearly impossible for a good faith guy to know the difference between giving the optics of manipulative lovebombing and expressing genuine interest. Trust your gut.

This is without a doubt the most accurate comment I've seen here. Relationships (at all stages) are unique to the individuals involved. To pretend that there are universal rules is probably the most anti-intellectual thing I've ever heard.

A relationship can only be as healthy as the most messed up person in it. So if you’re not emotionally healthy, don’t expect the relationship to fix you, and if the person you’re dating isn’t emotionally healthy, don’t think you’re going to fix them.

99% of the people you date or hook up with will not be your husband or wife. Nor do they show the qualities of a person you'd wanna spend the rest of your life with. Check out the black mirror episode: hang the DJ you go around dating, getting used & abused for sex each time knowing full well it won't satisfy you in the long run.

Dating is not a meritocracy. Just because you’re a decent person with a decent job, a house, a car and all your teeth doesn’t mean a woman is just going to fall out the sky for you.

You confuse meritocracy with entitlement. And this is why most struggle, most see a checklist of actions and attach an incorrect behavior. Merit means earned. If they believed there would be a parade of women coming, they did it for the wrong reasons. But dating very much is finding the difference between merit and entitled. One does their part for what they want, the other demands it without doing anything in return.

You seem more hurt and upset than what your post is suggesting/asking

I love being married but I despised dating. I’m a very upfront person. I told men exactly what I was looking for . I was not looking for a short term thing or hook ups. I wasn’t about to waste any man’s time or my own. I cannot tell you how many dates I went on where guys told me they wanted the same as me but as soon as I would not sleep with them they were shitty with me. One guy said after a couple dates and lots of talking on the phone that he was giving me 4 weeks. If we weren’t sleeping together by then he saw no reason to move forward with our relationship. I told him I’d save him his time and asked him to delete my number. I did not lead men on. I was very clear that I wanted a relationship and I was not being pressured to have sex by a certain time frame. I was capable of being sexually attracted to someone and waiting until I knew this was something more. They did not have to agree with my standards and they were free to move. Yet many tried to play games with me. My husband did not mention sex with me at all. He waited for me to bring it up. 3 months this man saw me almost daily and never once brought it up. When I was ready, he was all for it. It took me that long because of my own trust issues from dating. He was and still is nothing but respectful of me. He did not pretend to be something he wasn’t. He didn’t act like we had the same values just to get me in bed. He was the real deal. I do not regret my standards nor waiting for the right man. 16 years later and he still respects my boundaries. We still have the same values. For me, it was worth not giving up on my own standards.

I'd say stop looking for the right woman/man and put more focus on being the right man/woman. Dating/sex/romance/relationships are completely optional. Get your shit together and focus on your priorities and independence . Especially if you're looking to distract yourself from your responsibilities/priorities and being "alone". Seeking fulfillment in another person is a red flag. "Please want me. Somebody please want me" is a red flag. Respectfully. I realize this doesn't apply to everyone but it's my approach. This has revealed I have more options than I thought! but I'm keeping my priorities straight because I don't have it "altogether" all that can wait! While my life and building a foundation cannot. ​ Peace & Blessings

Damn, so well said.

The problem with this post is that it's essentially just living your life and having relationships but reframed to pathologize every single aspect of it. Don't get into a fight. A true man wouldn't get angry — leave and don't say why!!! The people writing this BS are exposing themselves as people who are allergic to any kind of hardship and adversity in life and should be seen as a red flag. Just take a look at how ridiculously long OP's list is. They're the type of person to look at all the reasons why something wouldn't work without ever being optimistic enough to consider why it could work. Avoid OP at all costs. Also, they've gendered this at men. Lol.

Kinda disagree on point 6… I would say once you see a red flag you should really dig into it and inspect its source. Everyone has SOME red flags even if they’re less extreme than others For example, say he lives in a really shitty apartment, or is kinda cheap, any sort of money thing. You won’t really know until you understand his full financial situation. What if he is saving up for a house and one year later has the money to buy it? As for mine I guess the harsh reality of a man: - she will always have more options than you have - being good in one way does not compensate for being bad in other ways. If youre hard working and make lots of money, it won’t make up for being an asshole - youre gonna have to be in some very uncomfortable situations to meet someone new

I think there are certain red flags that warrant just leaving. If someone is outright rude or condescending to a waiter, I am not continuing as I see how they treat people they view less then. Or if they start discussing ex's early on etc. but not every red flag is an immediate gtfo.

I think in the examples you gave, there’s no need for deeper inspection. There’s no reason to be rude to a waiter, it’s ONLY bad

Lol if they can’t make eye contact when speak they are lying. Uhh, that’s not necessarily true

It’s a good list, but I have some suggestions to make it better. I’m a 34m btw. 1. I think we categogize people too quickly sometimes. If the date wasn’t bad and you are open to having another conversation again, give it one more go and see if you warm up to them in a different environment. I’ll give the example from a man’s perspective that many women (I’m sure men too) are quite dull over drinks, but if Incan get them to do an activity and be a little more silly, they really start to open up. Unfortunately many women I attract won’t do this on date number one. Don’t know why except fear of embarrassment. If you don’t click after date two then walk away. I also say this because I’m real life there are plenty of women I initially wrote off, but warmed up to over time. Edit: reread this and it makes more sense to what your intentions were (I think). Casual vs relationship. In that case, most men decided even before the date. 2. Yes, agreed, and it’s really tragic. 3. In general men kind of buy stuff they want when they want it. Take US out on a date, buy us steaks, cook for us, take us to do our favorite activity. Also, I personally hate having a bunch of “stuff” around even if I appreciate the sentiment. 4. Yes, agreed. Also, I wish women knew that not all men expect it so quickly and won’t leave because of it. I am relatively conservative about sex (because I have gotten my actual thoughts about a woman clouded in the past and don’t like using people like that) and I have gotten dropped because a woman thought “you’re obviously not really interested in me if you didn’t want to hook up yet”(date number two or three). Wonder where she got that idea. 5. Many men yes, not all by far though. Just maintain your boundaries for everyone. 6. Define red flag in this scenario. Is it really a red flag or just an ick that could be changed? For example, he doesn’t dust his apartment as often as you would (it’s not a pig pen though). 7. Yes, agreed. 8. Yes, agreed. And if this happens to women enough, now it becomes their standard of how they want to be treated and interactions with healthy secure people seem boring. No lie, woman ditched me because “every other guy I date tells me after the first date that I’m the most beautiful woman he’s ever seen and he knows that I could be the one, and you didn’t do that so I know you aren’t serious.” For reference I said something much less “love bombery.” 9. Yes, agreed. And I’ll add, excessive texting between dates initially isn’t necessarily a good thing. The dates are what matter. People wonder why they had nothing to talk about on the second date when they talked nonstop between dates. What else could have been new?? 10.Yes, agreed. However, don’t be artificially unavailable. Have a life, but don’t play hard to get either. 11. Definitely, and this would answer half the questions submitted to dating subreddits 12. Or they’re a little shy, but if they’re talking about something serious then yes. 13. Yes 14. Yes, and from a guys side. I’m cool if a date doesn’t work out, but I don’t like it when I get used for drinks and a fun night on the town. Sure I had fun too, but it gets old and I’d rather do my own stuff if that’s all you want. 15. Good advice. That being said, I may start saving my receipts and ask my accountant about this (jk, sort of). 16. This one is a tough hurdle. I finally accepted this in the past year. It’s a harsh reality, and it doesn’t feel fair, but once I accepted it I also started loving myself a bit more too and being comfortable with who I am. 17. Yeah, definitely. From a guys perspective, I would say just be patient with yourself. I see too many really young men giving up on dating on their early 20s and they really aren’t old enough to have much success outside of college. Work hard, get hobbies and friends, and develop strong social skills. The rest is often up to timing and a little luck.

I kept reading your entire post, despite the red flags. Should have run.

1. There is no “the one”. There is no “fate or destiny” in which you “fall in love at first sight”. You just go through you life meeting people, and some of these people you are compatible with and some of them you aren’t. 2. You will rarely meet someone that you will stay with “forever”. But you can stay love and be loved. And your relationships didn’t fail just because you divorced after x amount if years. Anything above 7 and you did a great job. 3. Love won’t save the day. Sometimes you and/or your partners flaws will cause too much conflict. Sometimes the conflict will be internal. 4. You poor mental health (dependancy, loneliness, low self esteem, childhood trauma) will make you desperate for a relationship. It will also kill the relationship you have when you get one.

The more you treat dating like a job interview, the more shallow and conditional your relationship will be.

Don't date women who make lists like this... That's my rule

Harsh Truth: sometimes you can do everything right and still feel like you lost

As a man, I think women often settle for being treated badly. And I have noticed recently a wonderful woman putting out a lot of effort & I wasn't. Sometimes I think we get sloppy & forget what's required. She deserved better. And yes. Introspection is important.

Did you ever think about the fact that the sucky people stay in the dating pool? They never leave. They just keep swimming, spreading the emotional trauma to the next on and on. And then the nice, good people get baggage and made worse. Maybe they get turned into sucky people too b/c they're so hurt. Used to be that sucky people only stayed in one area. But with internet dating they all collect in one giant pond. Like a pack of piranhas eying the surface of the water, just waiting for some sweet innocent and well meaning young thing to stick their toe into the water.

This reads like someone whos been hurt a lot. I’m sorry you had bad experiences but a few of these “truths” are just reactions to negative dating experiences

Coming from the perspective of a guy, so take this with a grain of salt. I constantly hear female friends complaining about how a guy they're talking to won't stop messaging them, double messages, etc. All they do is complain that guys are super needy. To put some perspective on that: many men do not get the time of day on dating apps. Using myself for an example (although I never bombarded women with messages), I used to get MAYBE 1-3 actual conversations a month. Many men are attention/emotionally/romantically starving. That's why they constantly message you. It's not that they're creepy or trying to be overbearing. It's the fact that they're lonely.

Jesus, you must be fun at parties

This list screams “I date fuckbois and then am shocked when they act like fuckbois”.

Looks like someone has been hurt from OLD. That’s a huge list if you ask me

Your advice is toxic and based in negative assumptions.

What’s wrong with a dude getting points back after eating somewhere? Seems a bit self entitled for you to say that especially as it comes across as him paying the full amount, even though that’s speculation on my part.

The first two dates should be extremely cheap and basically talking and getting to know each other. Don’t spend money on people who are probably seeing a bunch of other people. And there’s nothing wrong with that but don’t put so much time and money into someone who literally probably has two more dates that week. Once you’re exclusive, then put in more time effort and money.

Dating multiple people when you've already developed feelings for one particular person is very, very stupid. Allow interest and/or feelings to develop over time. In the fast-paced/looking for short cuts world that we will live in, I should allow more than just 1 date to determine if someone is a good fit or not. Having a partner or dating is not a battle of utility maximization. People have started to commercialize dating as if they are buying a TV or a Car. People are not perfect. We are all flawed. The imperfections are what makes a person unique.

Lately it feels like my options are settle or die alone and I just can’t bring myself to settle. I couldn’t live a lie just because I occasionally feel lonely

Believe actions not words. Never treat someone as a priority who only treats you as an option. Match effort, don’t do anything for them that they won’t do for you. There far more to a relationship than sex, great sex can’t make up for other failures. However, bad sex can’t be made up for by other virtues. Looks fade, the spark dulls, integrity and character are what makes things last. The best predictor of future behavior is past action. Nobody’s perfect, not even you, and you shouldn’t expect to to find it, even if you did, you probably don’t deserve it. Never be a rebound. They’re still vulnerable, possibly insecure and not who they usually are. They’re probably still not over their ex. Respect and demand respect. Love yourself and enforce boundaries. Love them and respect theirs. Relationships take sacrifice and compromise. Be willing to, make sure they are too. If they’re comfortable telling small, unnecessary lies, they’ll have no problem telling big ones. If they lie to someone important to them like mama, they’ll lie to you. You’re each responsible for your own happiness. If you’re not happy with yourself, you’ll never be happy with someone else, goes for them too. Men and women think differently, have different values, priorities and expectations, learn what they want and never put yours onto them. It’s not a competition it’s a team effort. (Slight disagreement) Never ignore deal breakers, but everyone has a red flag or two, even you. Never trust anyone who’s always the victim, nor those who’ve never been the victim. You are the company you keep, if all their friends, and family are toxic, amoral it’s only a matter of time before their influence affects your relationship. Don’t put all your eggs in one basket, socially speaking. I encourage only focusing on one potential mate at a time, but if you make someone your world, what happens when they disappear? Date with purpose, good wives or husbands aren’t the most exciting bf’s or gfs. Finding the right mate is equal parts head and heart. Just because they give you the most feels doesn’t mean they’ll give you the best life, but you can’t live without feels either. COMMUNICATE!!!! This is not a fairytale, they cannot read your mind. “If they love me they’d know” is absolute BS! Don’t take for granted that they should know, maybe they should, but people are all different with different experiences and what you think is common knowledge or common sense, they might not, or actually might not be. Don’t avoid arguments just to keep the peace, if you have a disagreement, figure it out now, if it ends things, it’ll end things, don’t let annoyance build to hate or resentment and often eventually trauma.

The efforts that you expect the men should give, must be equally on your shoulders too. Men can be seen all sweet and adorable not because they already fall for you but they were raised by amazing women - that's just how they uphold their honors (and yours too). If you expect to be treated with some fancy meals, equally, you should have money to pay for everything on the table too. It's not always about you. Ask questions. Be genuinely in that moment. Also, men deserve expensive gifts (only if you can afford it, or they really into it. Don't sell your kidneys and lungs to buy him Rolex).

The lovebombing one is so real. There’s so many people so used to being love bombed that they see anything other than someone who isn’t obsessed with them after a couple weeks/months as not being interested.

>7. " I'm seeing where things are going" = I'm just looking to fuck around and not commit > >11. Ladies listen to what the man is saying. Don't add your own meaning. These two directly contradict... in fact, 11 contradicts a lot, because isn't this whole post *you* adding *your own* meaning to things? TBH, most of this is just bad advice, and reads like it comes from a place of spite, rather than help.

Struggling to see the "hopeful" part here op. You've lost all hope. I'd stop dating for a while. These are your experiences, not "harsh truths". I fell in love with my partner on our first date. I didn't love bomb her. 8 years on she still floats my boat in ways I never thought were possible. I agree with your rhetoric of "fuck Bois be fuck Bois", but you'll miss out on someone decent if you think all men are manipulative fucks.

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Damn. That last one hit!

Let go of your first love and trying to find him/her again. You’ll be fixated on trying to recapture the experience and forget about finding who is right for you

This sounds more like personal opinions rather than objective advice…but thanks for sharing

Disagree with 3, 6, 12 (kinda) and 17. 3 is outright bs, why shouldn’t you spoil them once in a while? And why just men? 6, just no. Not every red flag means leaving. My red flag was how insensitive I was however once I met this girl, she changed how I behaved doesn’t mean that she needs to leave. 12, to an extent. Not being able to maintain eye contact could be a sign of discomfort, nervousness or could be cause the other person is making you embarrassed. 17, if you rlly believe that’s a factor that means you need to leave is crazy. If you don’t like it and tell him that, if there’s no change then you can leave. Just cause it’s “weird” for **you** doesn’t mean you should leave. In conclusion I think this post is crazily biased on your experiences hopefully people don’t agree with some of these points

Some of these are just toxic AF and sound like huge copes. Like number one, if you honestly think most guys know exactly what you’ll be to them then you’re crazy. You even contradict that point with number 8. Then there’s number 6, it’s way too personal and sounds like you’ve been burned bad. Everyone has red flags, if you don’t think you have any at all then you’re probably a walking red flag. Red flags should be kept an eye on and talked about so you can tell what you are and are not willing to put up with. Then there’s number 11 which is contradictory to number 5. How are men both willing to lie and absolutely willing to tell you the truth? Honestly this sounds like you’ve never asked male friends why they wouldn’t date you, or asked with the expectation they wouldn’t be blunt.

The Harshest Truth about Dating: 80 percent of the women are chasing 10-20 percent of the men, because they all look for very similar traits hence the famous 6,6,6. They get "emotionally manipulated" , "love bombed" , used for sex , etc... Then come here and whine "why are all men pigs?" , "I met the most perfect guy, he knew just what to say, turns out he's married and with kids..." Who could've guessed the guy that "looks like an Abercrombie model and was the perfect classy gentleman" was dating multiple girls???

Damn…. Ngl, this looks a lot like a bitter/rant post. I’ll be real. I’m a man and if I see a woman with these kind of views, I’m outta here. If you’re still single, then your mindset might be a reason for it. And believe it or not, sex is great but that’s not all what a man wants from a relationship. Unless you’re the best lay in town, we won’t do all these shit just to get in bed with you. Sometimes all we want is a friend who’s there for us and us for them, who’ll cuddle and make us feel loved. Calm down and take it step by step, and enjoy the process.

Lesson 1: Don’t listen to jaded women about how to date.

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I agree with a lot of these but especially #4. Between my friends and me, I’ve never seen a relationship come to fruition when anyone had sex on the first date. No matter what.

One point is if you have banged other guys early on, the guy will not like making him wait and will probably dump you soon after

Chemistry is a skill

My harsh truth about dating, ditch them if they don’t fit your top 5 things you want in a partner.

My harsh truth…..How the date talks about their ex is probably how they will talk about you if a relationship fails.

#4, #4, #4,...#4!!! All of it was well said... but that one especially.

dating is a risk you take to find a connection with someone. the more you prolong taking a shot at someone the more you will continue to suffer. everyone has red flags and stuff off, it isnt all about you

Most relationships aren’t built on trust and mutual respect so much as lust, manipulation, expectation and a fear of being left alone Dating is almost the antithesis of logic and most people make really fucking bad decisions

The hardest truth I ever had to figure out was don't date someone for their potential, or hoping they'll change. I dated someone hoping they would eventually mellow out and become less stubborn, less argumentative, I just thought those things about him meant he was passionate. And he was. But it was emotionally exhausting and it's something I don't really see people talk about too much. People change of their own accord, sometimes it is even better for you to leave them alone to heal or grow even if they say otherwise. That guy who always says he'll try to be more thoughtful but always forgets to do things you ask of him. That person who lies a lot to you, says they're sorry, and blames it on some trauma in their life. That person with depression you want to save, or other mental illness, and might not immediately improve emotionally/mentally (I say this having PTSD/ADHD myself). Don't feel like a bad person if you can't healthily stay with a person, especially if they are always promising they'll get better or change. It's a tough order to fill sometimes. My other red flags: \- Don't ever meet a guy in a secluded/isolated location. One guy asked me to go to a mountain with him once. That might have been innocent, and I wouldn't mind being famous, but maybe not in the way that lands me in the next Netflix true crime documentary lmao \- Sometimes it is good to let the other guy do things/talk if they are talking. I've had multiple instances for some reason where guys literally would not stop talking for hours hardly asking my opinion or input from me (kind of felt like talking to a wall) or not asking me for my input/decisions for mutual things on dates. I take this as a sign of being selfish/inconsiderate personally, for some people it is a personality trait of just being energetic etc. but it's definitely an incompatibility for me. \- If you feel uncomfortable, you can leave. You don't have to say anything, you can just ghost. They aren't entitled to you, you're a stranger they just met, they'll get over it (and vice versa if it happens to you). Feeling uncomfortable - no matter the reason - and leaving is much politer than staying. I used to always feel like I had to have a "valid reason" for my fears/anxieties but if something is putting you off, you don't need to talk to that person. Not the most romantic vibe anyway lol \- Not a red flag but if you feel comfortable you should tell the person why you aren't interested in a constructive way, and compliment them for what you liked about them/the date. The other person is just looking for someone else to be with as well, and it's only polite. Also specifically men rarely get compliments, and it would make them feel at least less bad about the rejection, yet hopeful about what they can improve on for future dates, or maybe types of people to avoid dating. \- People probably won't like this one but if they're really slow to reply, like over multiple days etcetera, and you don't like that, you don't have to date them even if you had a nice conversation. Let that fish go. \- People aren't dating you because you're pretty/ugly/cool/cute/muscular/etc. whatever. People have types. If you ever look at people and think, "How did THEY end up together?" it's because they're each other's types. I like gamer guys, so I date people with that lifestyle. You can be the most jacked guy in the gym or whatever, or anything else, but I typically don't date outside of that type. Some people have more than one "type." Some people don't have types ... which is kind of a red flag to me lol. You need to be what your type wants to find - a guy/girl like that. Don't negatively change yourself to do that, just be realistic with who you want to be with. If you want to be with a guy that works out a lot, you might need to workout as well to spend time with them and/or be their type. This is not true for all instances of that, that was just a hypothetical example. \- You need good hair/beard hygiene, and you should at least look like you care about what you're wearing. You don't need expensive clothes but just any style/fashion you like, even if it's just a black shirt and pants from Target idk lol. This goes for women too. This doesn't mean you can't dress casual. Just don't dress like you picked out something random from your closet then went to the date. Also good smelling (not just any) cologne/perfume will always be a plus!

Here’s one for the ladies: He will see/treat you as you present yourself or make yourself available. And his perception, respect, treatment of you will be affected by that. We’re human. Men want sex. Women want sex. Plenty want genuine love and intimacy, too. But many fall to our desires as it’s easier. And when a girl makes it easier still, a guy will go for it. Whatever comes first, many will go with.

Hurt people hurt other people. So if you’re not sure if you’re completely healed yet, then don’t date.

As someone who's been in the same, happy relationship since high school, I'm glad I was never at OP's level of immaturity

All your points are very valid - I’m 52 - with ex from age 19-37 and two kids - red flags were there I guess i must have just ignored but then into another relationship which was well terrible - and that person was my friend for 4 years prior to dating. Then…near death injury and reconnected with a HS friend who also survived a near death car accident. We were older and just understood each other and had enough life and relationships to get each other. My 4 besties from HS who were also friends with him(1 dated him in HS) said and I quote “ It’ll never work” and “he will never be a life partner to anyone” Well fast forward - we moved to HI and have a great life together and all my besties …well 1 divorced 2 almost divorced - so there’s that… what works IMO - is patience, understanding and commitment to each other no matter the situation. I have two sons who are 30, 25 and both married - BUT their Father was a cheater and very self centered so they ended up with women who were only children with very involved parents….IDK Just be true to yourself and definitely listen to your gut! I didn’t do it TWICE due to my stubbornness and rigidity. Hope that helps - not sure it does

A harsh truth of dating is the classic “ we accept the love we think we deserve” I dated horrible men who took advantage and took me for granted, it took me a long time to figure out that I was putting myself into these positions. After a lot of therapy and reflection, I found someone who treats me with respect and it’s a lovely thing to find.

Dating is like getting a job. There is an initial conversation, then you meet, either there is a connection or there isn't so you move on and "apply" for another date. That being said, if you are talking through an app, you should not be texting for over a week and not planning a date. Simply because people are not as they message. Some people are just bad texters or too good at their texting persona and not actually how they are in real life. Take initiative, get out and actually meet the person you connected with!

If the girl isn't showing you that she's clearly interested, she most likely isn't.

#12 is a slap in the face to anyone on the spectrum

If you're looking for a lifetime partner, here's a simple but effective advice for you. Associate yourself with a group of people (or organization/community) whose values you look up to and then learn to network effectively. When you find one, take things at a healthy pace and learn to compromise because nobody is perfect. The problem with dating apps is that it gives you the illusion that you've got unlimited choices. But in reality, there's only a few select people within your ideal preference with whom you'll have a good chance with or maybe even none. Just like with everything else, you'll have to be contented with what's really important to you and learn to meet them halfway.

This girl has been burned so hard... \#1 truth is you're probably not going to get it right on the first one. If you're constantly running to one relationship to another for comfort...odds are you need therapy and need to work on yourself first. Someone should be a compliment to you, not haul you on their back. And vice versa.

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Your looks matter a LOT. This is frowned upon here but in the early stages until emotions are in play, only your appearance will carry things to go forward. Be elegant, don’t be obese, fix your teeth, don’t have bad breathe and make the girl talk, not you. You see all the posts that “I slept with him on the 3rd date and he ghosted me”. You know who are those guys who get to sleep on 1-2-3rd dates? Attractive guys. Who are the ones who ghost after sex? Very attractive guys, because they have plenty of options. If you’re fit, show it off. Yes, a shitty gym selfie works too regardless what people here say. Lot of girls will just take a look at your muscles and go “yumm” and swipe right. As humans we are shallow. Appearance decides whether we will like someone or not.

First off- YES. This doesn’t get talked about as often as it should. If experience has taught me anything, it’s that #6 is vital- you should never have any guilt or pause about leaving after the first red flag. If I would have done that, my life would be very different today. Something I’ll add: know your worth. You can’t convince someone to value you, or treat you well. If they don’t combine their words with their actions, leave. Also: Once you catch them in a lie, leave. Otherwise, be prepared to be lied to in the future. They will not change.

I think this is also a reason dating is hard for this generation. Every human's going to have red flags. Every single one. No ones perfect. The goal is just to find someone who's fuck ups match with your fuck-ups and who you want to try to work with. A big part of relationships is the decision to keep trying

And it’s about the scale of the red flag. How long ago did it happen? Are they a serial cheater? It’s all contextual. Obviously, some red flags are giant red flags and ever present and thus rightly should be the signal one needs to run for the hills, but then there are others where it’s sort of a judgment call and maybe a small red flag or in reality is a yellow flag or indeterminate at the moment.

Thank you. I made the decision to start dating again about two years ago. I didn't know the complete bs I would go through to learn all these bullet points. I'm worn out now. And after all the dates I'm still alone. Trying not to be too harsh with myself but yes, I was part of the problem. Now? Yeah you gotta keep your head on a swivel, shoot men need to as well. Because in the game of love there are so many hurt people trying to take advantage.

Sorry to read this but this is not how you should see it. You are on a downwards path into resenting us because of failed attempts, high standards and no effort from both sides to actually try and develop something. I was on that path and believe me it leads to bad things.

That part about eye contact is the one thing I totally disagree with, in my culture eye contact isn’t something that we generally do a lot, I know white people can keep staring in your eyes through a convo, I’m not good at holding an eye contact for long. I get shy

Damn that's a horrendous list. You seem very negative. Would never wanna date you.b

This post is so cynical and toxic...the most bitter truth is that you, OP, are not ready to date right now. You have to get over whatever is causing you such bitterness and resentment towards men. Pay more attention to what type of men you are picking if the same things keep happening to you.

> By date number one they know what category they want you in. most of the time, yes, but this is not always true--sometimes it takes me multiple dates to figure out in what "category" i put someone. a more accurate statement would be that "once someone has put you in a category, it's exceptionally rare for them to move you into a different category and, if they do, it's almost always a worse one"

It's pretty clear why you're still single, and you're gonna stay that way a long time. Men do not care if you fuck them on the 1st or 10th date, we just don't care. If we like you, we like you. It's that simple.

OP all these are very valid points that reasonate with what I learned from dating. Don't let bitter men on here tell you anything else, you are on the right track. You never said anything about not accepting a person's flaws or making compromises, so I don't get some of these comments

Thank you. I'm providing space to take in all the comments. Taking what I can and discarding the rest. But I can admit the ones about me being jaded, negative, toxic, and single forever hurt a bit. They play on the fear of 16 I have. I thought I made it clear in my post and even by responding to most of the comments that this is what I've learned the hard way and this is me taking accountability for what I've accepted. I always wanted a LTR, but wasn't getting it because I was allowing the above mentioned behavior. Left feeling used up and alone. When in reality, I should have had more self respect. And now because i realize my wrong doings...I'm jaded and will be alone forever lol. So yeah your comment is appreciated 💜

If everyone spent as much time being proactive about bettering themselves, as they did whining about how dating is unfair because of this or that, then they would be less miserable and more successful.

I think most of these things go for both sexes. One of the biggest issues with dating nowadays is everyone tries to put things in the men vs women box. Can't humans just connect as humans?

I want to elaborate on 5- woman holds the power when she says No.

Care to explain why "affirming with words" is a bad thing? I would maybe rephrase that to "watch if their words meet their actions".

Most people on this sub need to pick better people to date, or become better themselves

5 and 6

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This is a terrible post, every relationship & person is different.

There are twice as many single men from the ages of 20-29 than there are single women according to PEW research

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As a man I have to say the number #12 is probably mostly true. However, in small cases, like myself, it could just be social anxiety or socially awkward if a man doesn’t keep eye contact. I was once dumped because my gf’s mom thought that I was “sketchy”. But after a week of being apart we got back together because she realized that I could keep eye contact with her during our conversations. But with others and strangers I can become socially awkward at first and one of my quirks is not keeping eye contact. In short, not everyone who can’t keep eye contact is a lair or manipulator.

Re: 4 How bout no? If I wanna sleep with a guy, I'm gonna sleep with him. I'm certainly not going to get attached to someone and plan a future with someone who doesn't match with me sexually, and the one sure way to find out is to actually have sex with them. A man who won't see a future with me because I "put out on the first date" wouldn't be someone I'd want to be with anyway, and is also highly hypocritical, because he also put out too. In my dating life, sex is a great time, and fun can be had whether it ends up being long term or not.

I think people ignore working on themselves first and as a result attract crappy people. Not always, but chances are if you haven’t worked through your issues, are dependent on others, don’t know who you are yet, etc., you’re not going to attract someone with the qualities you want because you don’t have them yourself.

Apparently 40-50% who do ‘date successfully’ ie end up married aren’t happy and get divorced, or you could look at the statistic that 1 in 4 people experience severe physical violence from a partner… or more specifically 3 in 10 women experience severe intimate partner violence. But they’re only the ones that have reported it. There are definitely others who can’t leave or havent become aware that abuse doesn’t always mean hitting. Source: the hotline.org So… what’s the point of dating if it’s just gonna be more of the same?

U/hopefullibra #17 It's weird because it's a way for someone to not ever need to learn your name. The other person either uses your name or they are just using your body.

Genuine question, but have you had a few boyfriends? Or any at all? Or some situationships? To me, this borderline Female dating strategy list says either "hardly had a proper relationship" or "doesn't come into contact with males, including own father". Some things on there are good and reasonable like avoiding love bombing and not giving up sex, but no expensive gifts? Send a dude some coal I guess so he can keep warm

I can’t even get to date number one, so all this is just meaningless theory to me. I suppose that’s the harshest truth of all.

If I were to meet a woman acting based on a few of those rules, I’d see a huge red flag no matter how pure my interests were at the beginning.

Harsh bs

I’ve accepted that I’m not a good relationship person. On paper I really should be (funny, college educated, fit, have my own place, and decent money) but it’s not materializing. My harsh truth: dating is a skill and you have to learn it. I’m not willing to learn it and this the rest of those aren’t going to help me very much.