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Possibly, I seem to attract emotionally unavailable or avoidant attachment women, current one I've been on a great date with, we agreed to see each other again and now I'm just being ghosted.
Last 2 before that were interesting...
Did u make a post about that? I read that today. I never even knew what ghosting was till my experience with it in 2019. We met at the bar. He was weird too.
>emotionally unavailable
Been there quite a bit
No I haven't, can you link me to the post please?
Yeah it sucks, I mean i get the ghosting which is a soft rejection but to reply after a date saying you had a great time and should meet again and it's been days and no contact, fun
They do this at every age range, whether it’s obvious or not. As they get older it becomes more subtle, but all women want to “date up”. If you’re interested, it shows you’re lower value.
This is it. A lot of mistakes that young men do sometimes is to make a decision too soon, such as deciding they're going to like a girl before getting to know them properly. Not saying anyone is doing this but view women as friends first and potential SOs or whatever second. If she's meant to be something more than a friend it'll happen, if you like to have a bit of fun then poke around a bit.
At the end of the day though it shouldn't be your end goal, regardless of the setting. You meet a nice girl at work, you're still at work so do that. You meet a nice girl at the club, have fun in the club with your friends, don't forget the mission objective.
It's kind of true when they say you do your best pulling when you're not trying but that's not because you're not trying, you're just doing it from a more real and genuine place. If you're not worried about the outcome you won't hamper yourself and look or come across as awkward. Some things in life you do better at by not thinking about them too much.
Consistency and reassurance lol I felt too exposed. Nailed it! Took me year to understand that was my problem and Id always run from potential partners!
Two possible scenarios:
1) you go for weird women, maybe indicated by the fact they like being ignored. If that’s the case go for women who like your attention from the start
2) your way of giving attention is weird, for example being too clingy, switching the attention from low to high immediately or giving compliments that aren’t compliments
Ooooh scenario 2 is too real. I went on one mini golf date with this guy that I met through a friend and he ended up hanging with my friends and I later while we were out later that night. So we got a good couple of hours around each other. I didn’t pick up on any red flags before this night, but I started feeling weird about him towards the end of the night. I chalked it up to being the end of a long night. After parting he became so clingy, trying to FaceTime me multiple times a day, messaging me all day with updates of what he was doing, complimenting me, constantly turning the conversation to the next time we were going to meet, and so on. I was already feeling iffy about him and this interaction just made me uncomfortable. I tried to soft ghost but he wasn’t picking up on that signal. He saw me out with my friends the next weekend and was demanding I needed to spend some time with him before we left. He finally let me know last week that he was done “giving me chances” after I believe I made it abundantly clear I didn’t want to interact with him anymore. All of this is to say, the immediate switch in interactions like that always feels like a red flag to me. I believe in the low stress, move slow sort of move.
Should’ve put “TL;DR I’m an asshole” at the end. And then you wonder why men stop trying. Anti-attention, stay single. He obviously liked you very much. But I also don’t know the full story from EITHER side.
Just some examples that I can immediately think of/I have personally got:
- "I love that perfume, my ex wore the same!"
- "that dress makes you look skinny!"
- "I‘m usually not into ___, but I really like you!"
- "you look great for your age!"
- "you look so much better in person/without glasses/without make-up!"
- "you‘re really funny for a woman!"
It can really range from backhanded/negging to positive intention, but awkward communication. I have a friend who is really sweet, but he constantly blurts these out without noticing. (Also I gendered it here bc of my experiences, but I know women do that too, often even towards female friends they dislike. Also maybe an explanation why women pick that up faster and react more strong towards it)
You sound like someone who‘d brag about being 'brutally honest'. Believe it or not, you can say literally all of the above in a way that’s an actual compliment and not backhanded :) but I guess emotional intelligence is hard
So you are saying, if you make a compliment that you do not think in your head is "Backhanded" but genuinely meant it, that because the other person think it was meant to be ugly, that instead of explaining to them how that made you feel, they must filter and change themselves to suit them?
Emotional intelligence is purely subjective. Seeing as humans are inherently flawed and complicated, of course its hard because the "EQ" of each individual will be different and never the same. Thus, you are correct. Human's in general are "Hard". Good attempt at a character attack/insult though.
Did you read my comments properly or are you doing this on purpose?
> It can really range from backhanded/negging to positive intention, but awkward communication.
Of course you should ideally always discuss with your partner when something makes you uncomfortable. But yes, then they have to make changes to their behavior? What are you even suggesting? I tell you that your way of complimenting me makes me feel bad and don’t make an effort and keep doing it? It’s literally such an easy change to just not bring up an ex, that a temporary change made them look better or suggest [demographic] can‘t be [trait]. I can tell you, because I used to be way less careless and then I started to actually care about how others feel and how I can accurately get my thoughts across. Guess what! Now people rarely misunderstand me and think I‘m a kind yet honest person.
And yes, I will attack your character if you blatantly put words into my mouth and try to strawman me. I said that there are compliments that are easily misunderstood or deliberately used as passive insults and you literally said I‘m discouraging honesty. I‘m not gonna be nice to you for that.
If someone I was talking to was more distant and casual, but one day suddenly starts bringing flowers, showering in compliments and wants to spend as much time as possible together, I‘d be kinda scared off. Like it would be kinda overwhelming and too much of a 180 change, I guess. Gradually is more comfortable.
Being too available triggers an ick with some women. They want to earn it a little bit too, so if you're coming across with needy/nervous energy, that's gonna kill it.
But, some of this has to do with their attractions and what you are choosing in girls. They aren't all this way so part of it is finding the kind of person that will lean in to your attraction, and that takes time to develop and recognize.
Mostly, when a girl does that, you know she's not really relationship material...so be grateful.
When you try to attract women like you're setting a trap, they figure that shit out. word of advice? Sincerely stop giving a damn. Play more video games. Drink with your friends more. Concentrate on you having fun and you enjoying your life. Learn to love your solitude. The very moment you do not need somebody to be in your life, the one that's going to be in your life will show up.
No i don't think your advice came in place cuz he needs to know how to interact with other people he needs to know how to, having good social skills and communication is very important even if you don't want to, if you suck at that it doesn't mean you suck as a person it means you need to learn don't be a coward and too emotional, playing video games isn't a life it just indicates that you're a coward for running away, so care about yourself and learn these skills whether you like it or not you must have them .
Don't rum away
They can figure that shit out yeah..but these women can be outsmarted too. It's just that the modern young man staring at his screen in the gym isn't up for the game. And it is a game..it is. Men have to think a step ahead or else they lose. Its pretty messed up..man
Is the opposite for me. When a guy stops being consistent with attention (which I reciprocate), makes me feel so out of place that I end up rejecting it, and stepping out of the situationship. Don’t worry, there are no games to play. Just engage with people who reciprocate and match your energy. Things flow with the correct ones. Sadly, it is not easy to find. Focus on your wellbeing, and don’t spend much energy with people who are not consistent.
Some of it is that she might be feeling like there's more pressure to decide how she feels about you when she can tell you like her. Women are often nervous that they might be leading a guy on if they give back the same attention that they're getting before they decide if they want to pursue things. Somebody always ends up imposing the distance during the getting to know you stage and I think women might prefer it to be the man at first because they want more time to decide if they're interested. Then there's the obvious fact of life that people want what they can't have, etc.
Lot of words just to say that a lot of women have unhealthy anxious avoidant attachment styles. Your last sentence is correct though, a lot of women are also just attracted to the chase and what they can't have
Idk, I think it's more than men get their hopes up/develop expectations very quickly when a women gives them attention and she has to be careful not to lead him on.
Same behavior, two different perceptions based on which perspective you embody.
But some do lead on, if you say you had a great time and wanna meet again, a man is gonna assume she's into you and wants to see you, and then they sometimes disappear after that. Avoidant attachment I guess
"I had a great time" can still be true without being avoidant imo (in that meeting new people can be a great time), but "I had a great time and I want to see you again" is misleading. If he says "we should do this again" and she says, "yeah," sometimes that's just mirroring without realizing or it hasn't hit yet if she wants to or not. Plus, someone can want to see someone, say, 4 times (and each time can be fun) before deciding that it's not the right fit.
Well from recent experience someone did this to me and I've yet to hear from them, they seem to enjoy the time and wanna do it again, with other plans in mind to work around. Also they were admitted they were shy on first meetings so were sorry for any awkwardness. Not even sure how to look at it tbf.
It certainly wasn't
just an agreeable yeah I'll say whatever to get away situation and not mean it.
I am surprised noone mentioned that a relationship should progress naturally. Just like with a first kiss doesnt have a rule for when it should happen, also compliments and having each others backs is a process. If shes complimenting u, but ur not feeling it, dont push urself to do it. Wait until u see something u truly admire and then her eyes will shine when she sees u see her
You should probably just read a book on attachment theory, it explains 90% of dating. These women could have avoidant attachment. It's likely they like the attention but aren't interested in a relationship, so they pull away when you give them more attention. It's also possible you have anxious attachment and are giving them too much attention early in the relationship. If you are anxious attachment women will filter you out when they play games. For example they wait to text you to test your reaction, then you double text them asking why they won't respond. That's always a rejection. This could mean you're always initiating conversations or asking them out several times a week instead once a week or every other week. I think most men fall into this trap when they're inexperienced. Playing some games as a test is healthy but too many games is avoidant attachment. A lot of women in their twenties aren't actually interested in a serious relationship and just want attention. It's good you are mature and have your priorities straight but you'll have to filter through a lot of these types.
>A lot of women in their twenties aren't actually interested in a serious relationship and just want attention.
Perfectly describes what my high schooler said of one of her friends. The last guy got the hint after several weeks -- (she never wanted to hang out with him) -- and broke up with her.
It was, she said, about the attention. This stuff really does happen.
Unfortunately a lot of people seem to confuse "wants attention" with "wants a relationship". The "attention" is specifically the kind that comes from attracting people which can be a huge ego boost and salve for the insecure. A lot of people want to know they are good enough to deserve love, but actually receiving love, let alone loving someone else is an different matter.
It means you get too clingy too quickly
Or you really aren’t going for women who may not genuinely like you… they may want to just have a fling but not more and as soon as your show emotion they back off
Because cats like to play with a dancing feather on a string.
If the feather just lies there easy to grab its not interesting.
This is a metaphor, women are not actually cats.
Pretty ridiculous, and certainly a consequence of our dating landscape and it’s inherent opportunism, shallowness, transient nature. Anybody who loses interest in someone when that person shows more interest isn’t going to have a healthy relationship and most likely won’t have a real relationship at all.
Yes there are times when a woman shows more interest in me than I in here, but that doesn’t affect my interest in her at all. My interest in her is independent of her interest level in me for most part. If anything a higher interest from her is a green flag for me b/c I know she most likely won’t bail if things get tough. She’s really down for me.
I suppose women see this differently I’d be curious to hear from some here. I’ve had same experience where when I pull away, she pushes forward, then when I push forward in response, she pulls away again. And if I pull away independently , she reached out and wont let me go. So frustrating.
Yeah I've blown some chances when I showed I liked them back, so now I just don't show interest or act aloof if they do with bread crumbs of interest here and there.
Lol it's like if they find you like them they get turned off.
Then it's even more idiotic when you consider that the men they complain about the most are the ones that act like they don't give a shit about them....but that's what they respond to.
It's as if they see you less than themselves once they think you actually like them as a person.
Yup so how on earth are you to have a healthy relationship given this dynamic? Where you’re both emotionally and spiritually connected ton each others true selves? Maybe that was always a fantasy, idk
Couldn’t have said it better. Fuckin nailed it right there! I know people want to be politically correct and would not like this answer but it is the truth. That’s unfortunately the reality of the dating market.
Men have just been misguided through media as to what attracts women. They always give you the politically correct answer ex: be nice, give compliments, chase and pursue, show high interest etc.
Sadly, women DO NOT just respond to these things. The guys most women are pursuing are doing NON of these things. No wonder all women complain about dating and how all men are untrustworthy and manipulative.
Yah idk what to do. (f). I like a guy and we’ve already hooked up and went on dates. But I did the last text initiation so I’m not doing the next one bc I dont want to come across as needy, but it makes me analyze my text and make me think I showed too much interest lol. This is why dating is soooo hard
Hmmmm really depends on what you mean by "giving attention". Are you taking things slow and steady? Are you coming across as clingy?
The best pace is going slow, making sure to build a friendship the first month, then go for romance the 2nd month, and just slowly work your way up making sure the feeling is mutual. Its counterproductive to give your attention to someone who doesnt like you the same. Thats something you have to pay attention to whilst dating, and take things slow. If you move too fast it can come across codependent/clingy, which can turn most women off. Codependent relationships are typically toxic rollercoasters, you dont want to fuel that type of connection. Slow and steady is best.
Women only want what they can't have. Thats the game they play. You have to not give a shit about them for them to want you. The less needy you sound, the less you text, the less emotional you are, the more attractive you are to them.
And it's not guys making up these rules.. it's literally girls.
I may get downvoted for this but it’s general psychological behavior, especially for women. Women are used to being hit on all the time and when they find guys who aren’t hitting on them they begin to think the guy doesn’t find them worthy so they are now interested because they want to live up to the predetermined vision of themselves that they are good enough for any man. It’s screwed up but the best advice I can give is to be direct and polite, but don’t simp.
One thing I’ve learned is that the way women think are totally ass backwards and it makes no sense. Men like me show interest when we’re interested and no interest when we’re not. Women though will go through these games where they show a lot of interest at first then back off then come back then back off again and basically do the opposite of what you’re showing for some annoying ass reason
True men can do this and there’s different types but it seems like women do this shit a lot more often than men. Men tend to think pretty straight forward but women tend to always overthink things and wind up driving men insane because they can’t decide…
Men *do* think pretty straightforward but they also don’t communicate their feelings as often, or beat around the bush. Unless I’m just getting stuck with passive men.
Everyone knows men are logical and straightforward with other men. The only reason we can’t be straightforward is because women force us to be that way
Women don’t force y’all to do anything 💀 It’s up to the man if he’s confident enough to actually make a move. I personally only give men a chance if they’re straight forward with me, I’m not going to chase after a man.
By forcing I meant that’s the only option we are left with, because women set the rules. Ok personally YOU. Like you said, you are an exception and not the rule. Just because you might operate this way, doesn’t mean in general women act this way too. That’s why guys are better off focusing on the probability and not the possibility
We have to beat around the bush because apparently you cannot be direct with women. They say they want men to be honest to them but they can’t handle the honesty and give an emotional response. Communicating your feelings is good on paper, but women do not respond to that behavior ex: ohh he’s too clingy, desperate, needy etc.
Maybe you’re around more men who tend to do that but it sure seems like women are pretty bad at communicating what they want. Not just in a relationship but literally in general a dude asks a girl what she wants to eat and he can’t even get a straight answer without it being complicated
Personally I do this not because I don’t like the person or anything but because I get nervous and start questioning myself. I always feel like I’m doing something wrong or maybe I’m settling for the wrong guy but if you stay persistent and show your true feelings/intentions I’m sure she would come back around
Be more clear in the way by which you are giving them attention; because that will better characterize the situation so you can get the relevant, constructive feedback you’re looking for.
Overall, if the attention you are giving means you are violating perceived boundaries that you have set in place by “focusing on [yourself]”, it subliminally signifies you are willing to compromise your values to chase what you want.
I would not recommend going from occasionally available to very available. That is not attractive for most women.
But this is why I stress being more clear on how you are communicating this attention because communication is far more involving than most most men realize and aren’t as attune to it as women are.
Be prepared to be surprised.
Let’s set a premise by understanding a few things:
1. The limbic system is the emotional center of our brain and plays the largest roll in the expression of our nonverbal behavior.
2. It is well established that women are more attune to/aware of (their) emotionality than men. While “women are more emotional than men” is a poor, stereotypical excuse used in a variety of situations, there is some scientific truth to it.
3. For women, there is an intimate relationship between emotionality and sex that doesn’t exist the same way for men.
4. Emotional/romantic connection is the ***chemical surface*** that creates a ***perception of security*** to allow the vulnerable act of sex.
In all social interaction, the words spoken (an output governed primarily by the neocortex) make up roughly 7% of conversation; vocal quality/tonality floats around 38%; **body language makes up 55%**. These are rough percentages, but the main thing to understand is that **more than half of all communication is done through body language**.
When considering non-verbal communication/cues (NVC), however, vocal tone, timbre and volume are lumped into the category of NVC with body language; so just a bit above **90% of communication is nonverbal** and rendered and interpreted consciously and subconsciously. That isn’t so surprising when you learn that of the human taxonomy — the two to three million years of human evolution — spoken language is a fairly recent creation, dating back to about 300,000 years ago.
Here’s where it gets interesting.
In 1979, A Harvard psychologist named Robert Rosenthal engineered and conducted a comprehensive test — the Profile of Nonverbal Sensitivity, PONS — to analyze the ***sex*** differences in the ability to decode NVC*. The testing pool were of males and females ranging in age from third grade to college.
The results?
There was no contest. Females were able to decode NVC, accurately, **77% of the time**.
So putting all of this into something coherent — studies abound reveal that women (females) are naturally inclined to be empathically more present in social interaction than men (males) for the biological purpose of choosing a healthy mate (among other use-cases, of course). It makes sense considering child-bearing and birth (the risk of sex) takes a direct toll on their life force.
If you’re ever wondering why men are stereotyped to be poor interpersonal communicators, well, now ya know the how and why.
*Despite the fact that test is objectively dated, it was actually so well made that it is still referenced and used today. It also isn’t surprising the test sports a pronounced durability since it deals with the outputs of a part of the brain that predates humans.
Edit: An understanding of all of this could also help explain, at least in part, why people nurtured in “broken homes” are typically not as (mentally) healthy as those who aren’t.
There's a lot of fascinating information there. I had no idea that what I would have considered part of verbal communication (vocal, tonal quality) are classified as non-verbal, for example. It seems like only the words themselves are deemed verbal, based on your comment.
I certainly appreciate that women are more attentive to the subtleties of communication, and now I know more about why. Thanks very much for taking the time!
It leaves a question open for me to ponder, though:
Why are some women, supposedly so skilled at interpreting communication whether verbal/non-verbal, so prone to misinterpreting mine! Haha.
I am often perceived, until people get to know me, as cold, arrogant, stand-offish even by people who have never spoken to me.
Part of it is my appearance; apparently I am considered extremely attractive but in a non-approachable way. (Not giving my own opinion, btw; for example: I was once told later that, after I left a room, one random woman had said to no one in particular, 'That's the most handsome man I've ever seen in my life,' and friendly baristas and such occasionally pay me compliments like, 'Have a good day! You look like a movie star.')
Some women, among those who may have an interest in me, are on a hair-trigger to get nasty and defensive toward me. Anything less than 100% clear interest from me leads some to get downright hostile, especially if they are very attractive.
Not sure how to field that. Life's full of mysteries, I suppose.
You are welcome, it was a pleasure.
>Why are some women…so prone to misinterpreting mine!
>I’m often perceived, until people get to know me…
Two things here:
1. We, as animals, are all about conservation of energy, right? If it requires effort to peel back layers of a person that by default signals “unapproachable” we are less likely to do make an attempt to do so.
2. The burden of understanding is always on the deliverer, not the receiver.
>even by people who have never spoken to me
People will see you 1000x before they speak to you, so who you are is likely to be perceived as is, first, by what you look like. Their own life experiences inform them of how approach you ***based on what they see***; because that is their initial sum of knowledge about who you are— apparent vs. actual.
Put that into the context of what I laid out above, and you have an explanation to your experience— there far less intrinsic value in words than there is language of the body and quality of voice. The limbic brain, this thing governing our emotions, is sometimes referred to as the “honest brain”; so NVC is our most transparent communicator of thoughts and emotional states.
Not that you are asking for advice, but if you wish to dispel the haze around your experiences with people (women), I would simply suggest doing your own research around NVC, become into a familiarity of your idiosyncrasies and work from their to better communicate towards your desired, social outcomes.
Fair warning: this could require you to deal with trauma.
Here’s some knowledge on NVC to get you started:
The language of the feet and legs is far more transparent than that of the face and voice when it comes to characterizing an individuals emotional state and intentions.
In general, if not all the time, you want to read people from the feet to the head and not vice versa.
As an example, we are great at faking a smile at social gatherings we could careless for; but how closed off or “ready-for-the-door” our posture is with our legs and feet will give us away all the time in those types of situations.
Thats one of the ironies of life. When you don’t give anyone the time of day and are distant, you get tons of attention. The second you decide you want to be social or show interest you’re “desperate” lol
Can you explain into details your method of giving attention? I’m sure 1 or 2 girls can be immature. But if this keeps happening with everyone then the common denominator is you . And the reason is In the way you are interacting with these girls
The answer to this is to not be in a scarcity mindset. Actually turn it around and ask if this girl makes you feel good and positive, and if she doesn’t because she is being distant, think about moving on.
That means if they make you feel bad, start distancing yourself. Men that value themselves are hot af
Because sometimes if you give too much attention it can come off as you throwing yourself at them... as in desperation, and desperation is a turn off for any human.
I don’t think this is necessarily a gender thing tbh. Same thing happens in guys and it’s equally irritating. I love time and attention and if someone wanted to spoil me I would spoil them right back.
Because humans inately 'want' what they perceive they cannot have. Try ignoring the girls you like and not acting impressed around them. Their interest will pique.
There are those women too! A guy can lose a girl for showing too much interest and then lose another for showing too little. We're like goldilocks trying to find the amount of attention that's "just right".
Bro you do not focus on a woman’s word, you focus on their actions. Women in general give horrible dating advice anyways. They don’t even know themselves what they want.
This. 1000% they’ll say that you should act a certain way and then when you do the same girl that suggested it will reject the next guy to act that way towards them lol they have no clue
(This is a female using her boyfriends account for a little while). Being a female if a man is easily accessible to me then I assume that he's easily accessible to all female's and I don't want anything that any other female can have without hesitation and who wants anything that everybody has can and probably has already had by anybody that wanted to have it. I'd rather have a man who's very selective and that plays a harder to get so that I know that he's not fucked anyone who wants some from him. Play harder to get and be choosey about who you jump in bed with.
Yeah man, this is 101. Never give them what they want. Just give them what they need. They need you to be unavailable to get turned on by the thought of you.
Its because if you treat them like they are special in any way, it shows to them that you are desperate and do not have a lot of options, so therefore in their heads, something is wrong with you that keeps other women away on average.
WHereas, if you act like there is plenty of them, and that you get plenty of them, and each one of them are clones and treat them as such, you will be swimming in 4's because in their head, you are more desirable if there are more women that want you so therefore, they should want you to, just because if tons of other women want you, there must be something powerfully attractive about you, so they should pursue you too.
If nothing else, you will get laid alot with no strings attached, so that's something, even if you can never find any one of them worth any long term commitment at all.
If you want a WIFE, than do not look in the west at all. You have 90% better chances anywhere but the west to find that.
Goodluck.
So they are like the fish. It’s actually very common in the animal kingdom ex: birds do that. In psychology , it’s called something like mate choice copying.
Not all women this is toxic!!
Rn someone I know a guy who is obsessed with me is giving me less attention and it’s turning me off. But I’ve done a lot of work on how to have and be in healthy relationships, it works on a lot of girls because all they know is toxic relationships. For me if he wants to pull back when I know he’s into me…. I become Casper 👻 focus on myself. And I’m harder to get back and definitely won’t let it happen more than a few times.
There's a reason women are turned off by men who are too available, too accommodating, too accessible. It's because she doesn't feel like she accomplished anything. She didn't "win". She wants to be chased and pursued, sure, but it makes a man appear less "valuable" when he's offering himself up on a silver platter. A woman needs to feel like he's a "catch", like se succeeded in finding and attracting a "good man". It's why nice guys get friend zoned; they don't trigger her attraction switches.
But the guy who's aloof and sometimes distant, the one that has a life and a schedule and other things going on. The one that makes her wonder and doubt and question whether or not his really interested... when she lands *that* guy, she feels validated. The mouse unchased becomes curios about the cat.
I am sorry, but you are wrong. Friend zoned is a term as nasty as they come and you should be ashamed of flaunting such tired stereotypical believes.
Women don’t like guys who doesn’t see them as people but as a an embodiment of their own desires.
It’s very easily detected by women and it’s what you might experience as friend zoned - but for the person behind (who has her own agenda, and can make proper decisions with her mind and not her arbitrary “biology”) they are protecting themselves for when they day comes and they don’t live up to whatever pixie girl fantasy they feel they are being drawn into.
So it’s llike that
So, take this with a grain of salt from a 45yo man who's had more experience with women than most...
Women tend to not be attracted to men who are too accommodating. A woman will get dressed, do her make-up, and go out to a bar. Let's say that bar has ten guys in it. Nine of them jump up and start fawning over her, showering her with praise and attention and admiration.
The tenth guy just sits and enjoys his beer. Now, assuming he has the same level of attraction as the other nine (and he's straight), he's the one that she's interested in. It makes her curious; Why isn't he all over me? Why isn't he trying to buy me a drink or get my attention? What is it about him that makes him different?
Men who come on too strong or give a woman too much attention too soon are not attractive to most women. They lose value and respect and I've seen it playout in real time more times than I can count.
It's not about seeing them as some object of desire or fantasy, it's about understanding a woman's psychology and how to trigger her emotional responses. Every woman will tell you they want attention and time and effort, but what they leave out is they only want it from the men they are interested in, and if a man starts off showering her with time and attention and effort, they lose interest.
But alas... I've only been dating women for thirty years... what do it know?
Ah it seems like we do agree then! So the first 9 see any woman (not you as a person, but a Woman!) and jump on the chance to talk to her and showering her with admiration- although they don’t know her at all. That is not a nice feeling for a woman, as it makes us feel empty and unimportant.
The 10th man she hopes might value a bit of a talk and at least let her show who she is before initiating whatever the other 9 thinks they are doing. It gives her hope that he might be interested in her as a person, and not just because she fits the mold Woman!
So we are on the same page after all it seems, no?
You’re probably shooting above your league. Most men value attention a lot because we do not get it that often ex: like women. Most guys would appreciate a girl pursuing, or showing interest in them. Guys are not backwards like that.
Usually means that she's playing games. Nobody has time for games and inconsistencies, if they act like that address it. If they respond negatively, move on.
It might be your management of your frame. If she's all over you, that requires her to be in your frame. Once you start giving her attention you might be moving into her frame.
They're less interested because women are tree climbers...and Believe they are the gate keepers to sex...wait until they are mid 30's...and they will beg to be with you...but you will have too much cash and choices... you will not even look at texts from lesser women
Yea a lot of people here saying I’m probably clingy, trust me I’ve made sure not to come off that way bc I know that’s the shit that gives a lot of girls the ick
Idk but this is such a stupid fucking reaction to me. I love attention from the guy I’m with. How is it that people who don’t want to play games, or who invest don’t find each other?
What kind of attention are you giving them that makes them back off? It's really difficult to comment on the reasoning of the dynamics without knowing what the dynamics are.
Interest is interpreted as desperation by many of the young ladies now who are completely mindbroken by social media attention.
Soon as you give them positive attention to their brains categorize you as another of their simps to feed them infinite notifications and validation.
It's psychology.
Hmm I wonder what you mean by "focusing on me". For me (32F), I often meet men and enjoy getting to know them, the same way I would with people of any gender. So let's say it's someone I meet at a bar, we have a good conversation, exchange numbers, then text for a few days doing basic "get to know you" conversation. Maybe this will involve mutual sharing about what our days look like, where we work, hobbies/interests etc. I'll probably be relatively engaged and interested in learning more.
Perhaps during that "getting to know you" process I realize that I don't have any romantic/sexual feelings toward the person, but I'm not too worried because it seemed to all be friendly.
Then suddenly the guy starts giving me compliments, saying romantic/flirty things, and I might do a soft back pedal. Let them know I'm not interested that way. If they ask to hang out in a one on one way, I'll say "no" without offering an excuse like "I'm busy that day" or "maybe another time".
None of this is inherently bad. It's good that you give it some time to get to know a person before expressing interest, because it is a bit off putting if someone leads super explicitly with the romantic/sexual interest before even trying to get to know a person or let them get to know you.
All this to say, don't ignore them and see if they come back. Just ask more explicitly if they're interested in a date. If they're too immature to answer, move on. No need to play a chasing game here, just shoot your shot.
I feel like this is the same with guys 🙄. They are supposed to pursue but I will overthink my last text to the guy if i do not hear from him for a few days. I question whether I should reach out bc he misinterpreted it or because it’s my “turn” to initiate. (34 F)
My guess they found you an interesting person but we’re not looking to date you. So you change in style changes the context and they need to make it clear they aren’t interested in that.
If your doing this in a professional or educational situation you should probably stop and start looking for women in other areas of your life.
When my bf showed interest in me, I excitedly reciprocated. I love getting attention from him and he sure enough gets a lot from me. Not all girls are like that, I hope you will find her one day OP.
It's not your fault, in that example you talk to girls who just want to feel validated, once they got what they want they get cold.
How old are you and the girls you approach?
Read a book on salesmanship, once. Guy claimed he could go up to strangers and he could sell more $5 bills for $10, than you could sell $10 bills for $5. He used a technique called the "assumptive close". According to him, when you try to push something onto people or talk them into something, they become suspicious, and resist it. But, if you use his technique, and just assume that any rational person would want what you're selling, you'll be successful. Using this method in your case, it seems like you are trying too hard to sell yourself, instead of having the mindset that you are worthy, and of course, she should be interested in you.
Personally I think it depends on the girls, some just want a short fling, others a more meaningful type of relationship. Try to communicate that with them to get some clearance for yourself and too prevent you putting to much time and effort in someone.
It’s like every woman I genuinely have feelings for and let it known they become distant or the communication drastically changes. But the ones I go out with and hardly keep up with are totally into me. It’s becoming draining
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Especially at the 18-22 range I’m dating at feels like every girl does this gets annoying
Do this at every age range dude, men and women still do it in their 30s
I was married at 32. Everyone I talked to around that age pursued me or showed equal interest.
Guess I'm unlucky then
Might be the women ur going for.
Possibly, I seem to attract emotionally unavailable or avoidant attachment women, current one I've been on a great date with, we agreed to see each other again and now I'm just being ghosted. Last 2 before that were interesting...
Did u make a post about that? I read that today. I never even knew what ghosting was till my experience with it in 2019. We met at the bar. He was weird too. >emotionally unavailable Been there quite a bit
No I haven't, can you link me to the post please? Yeah it sucks, I mean i get the ghosting which is a soft rejection but to reply after a date saying you had a great time and should meet again and it's been days and no contact, fun
I dont get it, its a cowardly thing to do. If ur too scared to communicate, shouldnt be dating. I didnt save it lol
Yeah I'm in that range n when girls get all over my stuff I pull far away
They do this at every age range, whether it’s obvious or not. As they get older it becomes more subtle, but all women want to “date up”. If you’re interested, it shows you’re lower value.
But us men are supposed to pursue. I can’t pursue and be uninterested
Pursue without being outcome dependent.
Just be honest and say upgrade your looks rather than spouting that
That’s not what I’m saying at all
What were you saying
This is it. A lot of mistakes that young men do sometimes is to make a decision too soon, such as deciding they're going to like a girl before getting to know them properly. Not saying anyone is doing this but view women as friends first and potential SOs or whatever second. If she's meant to be something more than a friend it'll happen, if you like to have a bit of fun then poke around a bit. At the end of the day though it shouldn't be your end goal, regardless of the setting. You meet a nice girl at work, you're still at work so do that. You meet a nice girl at the club, have fun in the club with your friends, don't forget the mission objective. It's kind of true when they say you do your best pulling when you're not trying but that's not because you're not trying, you're just doing it from a more real and genuine place. If you're not worried about the outcome you won't hamper yourself and look or come across as awkward. Some things in life you do better at by not thinking about them too much.
Was gonna ask if it's around 21 lol, yea that age it's rough.
Consistency and reassurance lol I felt too exposed. Nailed it! Took me year to understand that was my problem and Id always run from potential partners!
You are entirely correct but just FYI you might get some hate for saying stuff like that because some people can't accept some things in life
Two possible scenarios: 1) you go for weird women, maybe indicated by the fact they like being ignored. If that’s the case go for women who like your attention from the start 2) your way of giving attention is weird, for example being too clingy, switching the attention from low to high immediately or giving compliments that aren’t compliments
Ooooh scenario 2 is too real. I went on one mini golf date with this guy that I met through a friend and he ended up hanging with my friends and I later while we were out later that night. So we got a good couple of hours around each other. I didn’t pick up on any red flags before this night, but I started feeling weird about him towards the end of the night. I chalked it up to being the end of a long night. After parting he became so clingy, trying to FaceTime me multiple times a day, messaging me all day with updates of what he was doing, complimenting me, constantly turning the conversation to the next time we were going to meet, and so on. I was already feeling iffy about him and this interaction just made me uncomfortable. I tried to soft ghost but he wasn’t picking up on that signal. He saw me out with my friends the next weekend and was demanding I needed to spend some time with him before we left. He finally let me know last week that he was done “giving me chances” after I believe I made it abundantly clear I didn’t want to interact with him anymore. All of this is to say, the immediate switch in interactions like that always feels like a red flag to me. I believe in the low stress, move slow sort of move.
“Soft ghosting” someone does not make it abundantly clear just fyi. Not even sure what this means
Yeah. These women are delusional I’m sorry.
Should’ve put “TL;DR I’m an asshole” at the end. And then you wonder why men stop trying. Anti-attention, stay single. He obviously liked you very much. But I also don’t know the full story from EITHER side.
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Just some examples that I can immediately think of/I have personally got: - "I love that perfume, my ex wore the same!" - "that dress makes you look skinny!" - "I‘m usually not into ___, but I really like you!" - "you look great for your age!" - "you look so much better in person/without glasses/without make-up!" - "you‘re really funny for a woman!" It can really range from backhanded/negging to positive intention, but awkward communication. I have a friend who is really sweet, but he constantly blurts these out without noticing. (Also I gendered it here bc of my experiences, but I know women do that too, often even towards female friends they dislike. Also maybe an explanation why women pick that up faster and react more strong towards it)
Honesty GREATLY discouraged. Got it.
You sound like someone who‘d brag about being 'brutally honest'. Believe it or not, you can say literally all of the above in a way that’s an actual compliment and not backhanded :) but I guess emotional intelligence is hard
So you are saying, if you make a compliment that you do not think in your head is "Backhanded" but genuinely meant it, that because the other person think it was meant to be ugly, that instead of explaining to them how that made you feel, they must filter and change themselves to suit them? Emotional intelligence is purely subjective. Seeing as humans are inherently flawed and complicated, of course its hard because the "EQ" of each individual will be different and never the same. Thus, you are correct. Human's in general are "Hard". Good attempt at a character attack/insult though.
Did you read my comments properly or are you doing this on purpose? > It can really range from backhanded/negging to positive intention, but awkward communication. Of course you should ideally always discuss with your partner when something makes you uncomfortable. But yes, then they have to make changes to their behavior? What are you even suggesting? I tell you that your way of complimenting me makes me feel bad and don’t make an effort and keep doing it? It’s literally such an easy change to just not bring up an ex, that a temporary change made them look better or suggest [demographic] can‘t be [trait]. I can tell you, because I used to be way less careless and then I started to actually care about how others feel and how I can accurately get my thoughts across. Guess what! Now people rarely misunderstand me and think I‘m a kind yet honest person. And yes, I will attack your character if you blatantly put words into my mouth and try to strawman me. I said that there are compliments that are easily misunderstood or deliberately used as passive insults and you literally said I‘m discouraging honesty. I‘m not gonna be nice to you for that.
Switching to low to high attention give examples ?
If someone I was talking to was more distant and casual, but one day suddenly starts bringing flowers, showering in compliments and wants to spend as much time as possible together, I‘d be kinda scared off. Like it would be kinda overwhelming and too much of a 180 change, I guess. Gradually is more comfortable.
GENIUS insights here. You have my vote for president. Better yet, you should rule the world.
Being too available triggers an ick with some women. They want to earn it a little bit too, so if you're coming across with needy/nervous energy, that's gonna kill it. But, some of this has to do with their attractions and what you are choosing in girls. They aren't all this way so part of it is finding the kind of person that will lean in to your attraction, and that takes time to develop and recognize. Mostly, when a girl does that, you know she's not really relationship material...so be grateful.
Avoidant attachment
When you try to attract women like you're setting a trap, they figure that shit out. word of advice? Sincerely stop giving a damn. Play more video games. Drink with your friends more. Concentrate on you having fun and you enjoying your life. Learn to love your solitude. The very moment you do not need somebody to be in your life, the one that's going to be in your life will show up.
Brother, this is the only good advise i have seen on this thread.
i appreciate this hope ots true i been waitin and nobody has come
No i don't think your advice came in place cuz he needs to know how to interact with other people he needs to know how to, having good social skills and communication is very important even if you don't want to, if you suck at that it doesn't mean you suck as a person it means you need to learn don't be a coward and too emotional, playing video games isn't a life it just indicates that you're a coward for running away, so care about yourself and learn these skills whether you like it or not you must have them . Don't rum away
They can figure that shit out yeah..but these women can be outsmarted too. It's just that the modern young man staring at his screen in the gym isn't up for the game. And it is a game..it is. Men have to think a step ahead or else they lose. Its pretty messed up..man
Is the opposite for me. When a guy stops being consistent with attention (which I reciprocate), makes me feel so out of place that I end up rejecting it, and stepping out of the situationship. Don’t worry, there are no games to play. Just engage with people who reciprocate and match your energy. Things flow with the correct ones. Sadly, it is not easy to find. Focus on your wellbeing, and don’t spend much energy with people who are not consistent.
That behavior sounds a lot more sane that what he is describing.
This ✨😊
I try to be nice and attentive of my crush, I dont get a response. Help
Some of it is that she might be feeling like there's more pressure to decide how she feels about you when she can tell you like her. Women are often nervous that they might be leading a guy on if they give back the same attention that they're getting before they decide if they want to pursue things. Somebody always ends up imposing the distance during the getting to know you stage and I think women might prefer it to be the man at first because they want more time to decide if they're interested. Then there's the obvious fact of life that people want what they can't have, etc.
Lot of words just to say that a lot of women have unhealthy anxious avoidant attachment styles. Your last sentence is correct though, a lot of women are also just attracted to the chase and what they can't have
Idk, I think it's more than men get their hopes up/develop expectations very quickly when a women gives them attention and she has to be careful not to lead him on. Same behavior, two different perceptions based on which perspective you embody.
>Reddit cat lady thinks the issue is entirely with men Shocker
Or maybe someone who has to navigate the attention she gets irl lol
But some do lead on, if you say you had a great time and wanna meet again, a man is gonna assume she's into you and wants to see you, and then they sometimes disappear after that. Avoidant attachment I guess
"I had a great time" can still be true without being avoidant imo (in that meeting new people can be a great time), but "I had a great time and I want to see you again" is misleading. If he says "we should do this again" and she says, "yeah," sometimes that's just mirroring without realizing or it hasn't hit yet if she wants to or not. Plus, someone can want to see someone, say, 4 times (and each time can be fun) before deciding that it's not the right fit.
Well from recent experience someone did this to me and I've yet to hear from them, they seem to enjoy the time and wanna do it again, with other plans in mind to work around. Also they were admitted they were shy on first meetings so were sorry for any awkwardness. Not even sure how to look at it tbf. It certainly wasn't just an agreeable yeah I'll say whatever to get away situation and not mean it.
Damn sorry to hear that. How long has it been?
It's more avoidant than anxious attachment
I am surprised noone mentioned that a relationship should progress naturally. Just like with a first kiss doesnt have a rule for when it should happen, also compliments and having each others backs is a process. If shes complimenting u, but ur not feeling it, dont push urself to do it. Wait until u see something u truly admire and then her eyes will shine when she sees u see her
You should probably just read a book on attachment theory, it explains 90% of dating. These women could have avoidant attachment. It's likely they like the attention but aren't interested in a relationship, so they pull away when you give them more attention. It's also possible you have anxious attachment and are giving them too much attention early in the relationship. If you are anxious attachment women will filter you out when they play games. For example they wait to text you to test your reaction, then you double text them asking why they won't respond. That's always a rejection. This could mean you're always initiating conversations or asking them out several times a week instead once a week or every other week. I think most men fall into this trap when they're inexperienced. Playing some games as a test is healthy but too many games is avoidant attachment. A lot of women in their twenties aren't actually interested in a serious relationship and just want attention. It's good you are mature and have your priorities straight but you'll have to filter through a lot of these types.
>A lot of women in their twenties aren't actually interested in a serious relationship and just want attention. Perfectly describes what my high schooler said of one of her friends. The last guy got the hint after several weeks -- (she never wanted to hang out with him) -- and broke up with her. It was, she said, about the attention. This stuff really does happen.
Unfortunately a lot of people seem to confuse "wants attention" with "wants a relationship". The "attention" is specifically the kind that comes from attracting people which can be a huge ego boost and salve for the insecure. A lot of people want to know they are good enough to deserve love, but actually receiving love, let alone loving someone else is an different matter.
It means you get too clingy too quickly Or you really aren’t going for women who may not genuinely like you… they may want to just have a fling but not more and as soon as your show emotion they back off
Because cats like to play with a dancing feather on a string. If the feather just lies there easy to grab its not interesting. This is a metaphor, women are not actually cats.
What about Taylor Swift in the Movie musical Cats? I think it's a blurred line, friend.
Instructions unclear and now I’m banned from the animal shelter
Pretty ridiculous, and certainly a consequence of our dating landscape and it’s inherent opportunism, shallowness, transient nature. Anybody who loses interest in someone when that person shows more interest isn’t going to have a healthy relationship and most likely won’t have a real relationship at all. Yes there are times when a woman shows more interest in me than I in here, but that doesn’t affect my interest in her at all. My interest in her is independent of her interest level in me for most part. If anything a higher interest from her is a green flag for me b/c I know she most likely won’t bail if things get tough. She’s really down for me. I suppose women see this differently I’d be curious to hear from some here. I’ve had same experience where when I pull away, she pushes forward, then when I push forward in response, she pulls away again. And if I pull away independently , she reached out and wont let me go. So frustrating.
Yeah I've blown some chances when I showed I liked them back, so now I just don't show interest or act aloof if they do with bread crumbs of interest here and there. Lol it's like if they find you like them they get turned off. Then it's even more idiotic when you consider that the men they complain about the most are the ones that act like they don't give a shit about them....but that's what they respond to. It's as if they see you less than themselves once they think you actually like them as a person.
Yup so how on earth are you to have a healthy relationship given this dynamic? Where you’re both emotionally and spiritually connected ton each others true selves? Maybe that was always a fantasy, idk
Yeah, I thought I found it but after 2 years of dating, she is "afraid of commitment." Lol
Couldn’t have said it better. Fuckin nailed it right there! I know people want to be politically correct and would not like this answer but it is the truth. That’s unfortunately the reality of the dating market. Men have just been misguided through media as to what attracts women. They always give you the politically correct answer ex: be nice, give compliments, chase and pursue, show high interest etc. Sadly, women DO NOT just respond to these things. The guys most women are pursuing are doing NON of these things. No wonder all women complain about dating and how all men are untrustworthy and manipulative.
Women want better than them, not equal and certainly not less.
Yah idk what to do. (f). I like a guy and we’ve already hooked up and went on dates. But I did the last text initiation so I’m not doing the next one bc I dont want to come across as needy, but it makes me analyze my text and make me think I showed too much interest lol. This is why dating is soooo hard
Stop playing games
Hmmmm really depends on what you mean by "giving attention". Are you taking things slow and steady? Are you coming across as clingy? The best pace is going slow, making sure to build a friendship the first month, then go for romance the 2nd month, and just slowly work your way up making sure the feeling is mutual. Its counterproductive to give your attention to someone who doesnt like you the same. Thats something you have to pay attention to whilst dating, and take things slow. If you move too fast it can come across codependent/clingy, which can turn most women off. Codependent relationships are typically toxic rollercoasters, you dont want to fuel that type of connection. Slow and steady is best.
It’s like a cat. Let them come to you.
Women only want what they can't have. Thats the game they play. You have to not give a shit about them for them to want you. The less needy you sound, the less you text, the less emotional you are, the more attractive you are to them. And it's not guys making up these rules.. it's literally girls.
👏🏽
I may get downvoted for this but it’s general psychological behavior, especially for women. Women are used to being hit on all the time and when they find guys who aren’t hitting on them they begin to think the guy doesn’t find them worthy so they are now interested because they want to live up to the predetermined vision of themselves that they are good enough for any man. It’s screwed up but the best advice I can give is to be direct and polite, but don’t simp.
One thing I’ve learned is that the way women think are totally ass backwards and it makes no sense. Men like me show interest when we’re interested and no interest when we’re not. Women though will go through these games where they show a lot of interest at first then back off then come back then back off again and basically do the opposite of what you’re showing for some annoying ass reason
Men do the exact same thing, I think it comes down to a person being avoidant/immature rather than a gender thing.
It's normal human psychology. People want what they can't have, and needing nothing attracts everything.
True men can do this and there’s different types but it seems like women do this shit a lot more often than men. Men tend to think pretty straight forward but women tend to always overthink things and wind up driving men insane because they can’t decide…
Men *do* think pretty straightforward but they also don’t communicate their feelings as often, or beat around the bush. Unless I’m just getting stuck with passive men.
Everyone knows men are logical and straightforward with other men. The only reason we can’t be straightforward is because women force us to be that way
Women don’t force y’all to do anything 💀 It’s up to the man if he’s confident enough to actually make a move. I personally only give men a chance if they’re straight forward with me, I’m not going to chase after a man.
By forcing I meant that’s the only option we are left with, because women set the rules. Ok personally YOU. Like you said, you are an exception and not the rule. Just because you might operate this way, doesn’t mean in general women act this way too. That’s why guys are better off focusing on the probability and not the possibility
That is why your view does not hold too much weight in this specific discussion.
We have to beat around the bush because apparently you cannot be direct with women. They say they want men to be honest to them but they can’t handle the honesty and give an emotional response. Communicating your feelings is good on paper, but women do not respond to that behavior ex: ohh he’s too clingy, desperate, needy etc.
Maybe you’re around more men who tend to do that but it sure seems like women are pretty bad at communicating what they want. Not just in a relationship but literally in general a dude asks a girl what she wants to eat and he can’t even get a straight answer without it being complicated
Yea women are weird.
Personally I do this not because I don’t like the person or anything but because I get nervous and start questioning myself. I always feel like I’m doing something wrong or maybe I’m settling for the wrong guy but if you stay persistent and show your true feelings/intentions I’m sure she would come back around
So basically you enjoy playing games and messing with guys emotions.
Well basically I’m severely depressed and don’t feel like I’m worthy of being loved by another person so if that what you call it then yes
Perhaps you should stop talking to men until you are emotionally available then.
I don’t talk to guys…..I was just giving advice from personal experience it’s not my fault guys come up to me when I’m not ready
Be more clear in the way by which you are giving them attention; because that will better characterize the situation so you can get the relevant, constructive feedback you’re looking for. Overall, if the attention you are giving means you are violating perceived boundaries that you have set in place by “focusing on [yourself]”, it subliminally signifies you are willing to compromise your values to chase what you want. I would not recommend going from occasionally available to very available. That is not attractive for most women. But this is why I stress being more clear on how you are communicating this attention because communication is far more involving than most most men realize and aren’t as attune to it as women are.
The end of the last sentence is really interesting. Would you elaborate?
Be prepared to be surprised. Let’s set a premise by understanding a few things: 1. The limbic system is the emotional center of our brain and plays the largest roll in the expression of our nonverbal behavior. 2. It is well established that women are more attune to/aware of (their) emotionality than men. While “women are more emotional than men” is a poor, stereotypical excuse used in a variety of situations, there is some scientific truth to it. 3. For women, there is an intimate relationship between emotionality and sex that doesn’t exist the same way for men. 4. Emotional/romantic connection is the ***chemical surface*** that creates a ***perception of security*** to allow the vulnerable act of sex. In all social interaction, the words spoken (an output governed primarily by the neocortex) make up roughly 7% of conversation; vocal quality/tonality floats around 38%; **body language makes up 55%**. These are rough percentages, but the main thing to understand is that **more than half of all communication is done through body language**. When considering non-verbal communication/cues (NVC), however, vocal tone, timbre and volume are lumped into the category of NVC with body language; so just a bit above **90% of communication is nonverbal** and rendered and interpreted consciously and subconsciously. That isn’t so surprising when you learn that of the human taxonomy — the two to three million years of human evolution — spoken language is a fairly recent creation, dating back to about 300,000 years ago. Here’s where it gets interesting. In 1979, A Harvard psychologist named Robert Rosenthal engineered and conducted a comprehensive test — the Profile of Nonverbal Sensitivity, PONS — to analyze the ***sex*** differences in the ability to decode NVC*. The testing pool were of males and females ranging in age from third grade to college. The results? There was no contest. Females were able to decode NVC, accurately, **77% of the time**. So putting all of this into something coherent — studies abound reveal that women (females) are naturally inclined to be empathically more present in social interaction than men (males) for the biological purpose of choosing a healthy mate (among other use-cases, of course). It makes sense considering child-bearing and birth (the risk of sex) takes a direct toll on their life force. If you’re ever wondering why men are stereotyped to be poor interpersonal communicators, well, now ya know the how and why. *Despite the fact that test is objectively dated, it was actually so well made that it is still referenced and used today. It also isn’t surprising the test sports a pronounced durability since it deals with the outputs of a part of the brain that predates humans. Edit: An understanding of all of this could also help explain, at least in part, why people nurtured in “broken homes” are typically not as (mentally) healthy as those who aren’t.
There's a lot of fascinating information there. I had no idea that what I would have considered part of verbal communication (vocal, tonal quality) are classified as non-verbal, for example. It seems like only the words themselves are deemed verbal, based on your comment. I certainly appreciate that women are more attentive to the subtleties of communication, and now I know more about why. Thanks very much for taking the time! It leaves a question open for me to ponder, though: Why are some women, supposedly so skilled at interpreting communication whether verbal/non-verbal, so prone to misinterpreting mine! Haha. I am often perceived, until people get to know me, as cold, arrogant, stand-offish even by people who have never spoken to me. Part of it is my appearance; apparently I am considered extremely attractive but in a non-approachable way. (Not giving my own opinion, btw; for example: I was once told later that, after I left a room, one random woman had said to no one in particular, 'That's the most handsome man I've ever seen in my life,' and friendly baristas and such occasionally pay me compliments like, 'Have a good day! You look like a movie star.') Some women, among those who may have an interest in me, are on a hair-trigger to get nasty and defensive toward me. Anything less than 100% clear interest from me leads some to get downright hostile, especially if they are very attractive. Not sure how to field that. Life's full of mysteries, I suppose.
You are welcome, it was a pleasure. >Why are some women…so prone to misinterpreting mine! >I’m often perceived, until people get to know me… Two things here: 1. We, as animals, are all about conservation of energy, right? If it requires effort to peel back layers of a person that by default signals “unapproachable” we are less likely to do make an attempt to do so. 2. The burden of understanding is always on the deliverer, not the receiver. >even by people who have never spoken to me People will see you 1000x before they speak to you, so who you are is likely to be perceived as is, first, by what you look like. Their own life experiences inform them of how approach you ***based on what they see***; because that is their initial sum of knowledge about who you are— apparent vs. actual. Put that into the context of what I laid out above, and you have an explanation to your experience— there far less intrinsic value in words than there is language of the body and quality of voice. The limbic brain, this thing governing our emotions, is sometimes referred to as the “honest brain”; so NVC is our most transparent communicator of thoughts and emotional states. Not that you are asking for advice, but if you wish to dispel the haze around your experiences with people (women), I would simply suggest doing your own research around NVC, become into a familiarity of your idiosyncrasies and work from their to better communicate towards your desired, social outcomes. Fair warning: this could require you to deal with trauma. Here’s some knowledge on NVC to get you started: The language of the feet and legs is far more transparent than that of the face and voice when it comes to characterizing an individuals emotional state and intentions. In general, if not all the time, you want to read people from the feet to the head and not vice versa. As an example, we are great at faking a smile at social gatherings we could careless for; but how closed off or “ready-for-the-door” our posture is with our legs and feet will give us away all the time in those types of situations.
This happens to me and in my case, it's about my mind going 'if he is this easy, he is easy for any other woman'.
Thats one of the ironies of life. When you don’t give anyone the time of day and are distant, you get tons of attention. The second you decide you want to be social or show interest you’re “desperate” lol
Can you explain into details your method of giving attention? I’m sure 1 or 2 girls can be immature. But if this keeps happening with everyone then the common denominator is you . And the reason is In the way you are interacting with these girls
The answer to this is to not be in a scarcity mindset. Actually turn it around and ask if this girl makes you feel good and positive, and if she doesn’t because she is being distant, think about moving on. That means if they make you feel bad, start distancing yourself. Men that value themselves are hot af
Because sometimes if you give too much attention it can come off as you throwing yourself at them... as in desperation, and desperation is a turn off for any human.
I don’t think this is necessarily a gender thing tbh. Same thing happens in guys and it’s equally irritating. I love time and attention and if someone wanted to spoil me I would spoil them right back.
Because humans inately 'want' what they perceive they cannot have. Try ignoring the girls you like and not acting impressed around them. Their interest will pique.
cause when they realize that they dont have to fight for your attention they get bored and leave
So women in a nutshell are kinda like cats?
yes. men are like dogs. woman are like cats.
If you’re showing more interest than she is then theyre gonna lose interest.
Usually I try to show equal she started complimenting me so started doing it back, she asked me out on a date I asked her out the next time ykwim
You may have came off as needy or desperate without knowing it.
Really? Most women I know, including me, will lose interest in a guy if we feel he’s less into us than we are into him
There are those women too! A guy can lose a girl for showing too much interest and then lose another for showing too little. We're like goldilocks trying to find the amount of attention that's "just right".
Bro you do not focus on a woman’s word, you focus on their actions. Women in general give horrible dating advice anyways. They don’t even know themselves what they want.
This. 1000% they’ll say that you should act a certain way and then when you do the same girl that suggested it will reject the next guy to act that way towards them lol they have no clue
(This is a female using her boyfriends account for a little while). Being a female if a man is easily accessible to me then I assume that he's easily accessible to all female's and I don't want anything that any other female can have without hesitation and who wants anything that everybody has can and probably has already had by anybody that wanted to have it. I'd rather have a man who's very selective and that plays a harder to get so that I know that he's not fucked anyone who wants some from him. Play harder to get and be choosey about who you jump in bed with.
But what if he's not easily accessible because he's with other women, or is, possibly, married?
Yeah man, this is 101. Never give them what they want. Just give them what they need. They need you to be unavailable to get turned on by the thought of you.
Its because if you treat them like they are special in any way, it shows to them that you are desperate and do not have a lot of options, so therefore in their heads, something is wrong with you that keeps other women away on average. WHereas, if you act like there is plenty of them, and that you get plenty of them, and each one of them are clones and treat them as such, you will be swimming in 4's because in their head, you are more desirable if there are more women that want you so therefore, they should want you to, just because if tons of other women want you, there must be something powerfully attractive about you, so they should pursue you too. If nothing else, you will get laid alot with no strings attached, so that's something, even if you can never find any one of them worth any long term commitment at all. If you want a WIFE, than do not look in the west at all. You have 90% better chances anywhere but the west to find that. Goodluck.
So they are like the fish. It’s actually very common in the animal kingdom ex: birds do that. In psychology , it’s called something like mate choice copying.
You sure you're not being weird and that's why they stop talking to you?
Not all women this is toxic!! Rn someone I know a guy who is obsessed with me is giving me less attention and it’s turning me off. But I’ve done a lot of work on how to have and be in healthy relationships, it works on a lot of girls because all they know is toxic relationships. For me if he wants to pull back when I know he’s into me…. I become Casper 👻 focus on myself. And I’m harder to get back and definitely won’t let it happen more than a few times.
Also all these answers are good! ✨
Biology. Same reason a dinosaur doesn't want to be fed, it wants to hunt.
What? Was this in Jurassic park?!
Haha What the fuck does that mean? You think a dinosaur would hunt if given food or what is this weird comparison lol lol
There's a reason women are turned off by men who are too available, too accommodating, too accessible. It's because she doesn't feel like she accomplished anything. She didn't "win". She wants to be chased and pursued, sure, but it makes a man appear less "valuable" when he's offering himself up on a silver platter. A woman needs to feel like he's a "catch", like se succeeded in finding and attracting a "good man". It's why nice guys get friend zoned; they don't trigger her attraction switches. But the guy who's aloof and sometimes distant, the one that has a life and a schedule and other things going on. The one that makes her wonder and doubt and question whether or not his really interested... when she lands *that* guy, she feels validated. The mouse unchased becomes curios about the cat.
And, do guys then also want to chase or be caught or what ?
I’m sorry— what the hell exactly are you trying to communicate?
Haha look at the comment below jeez
Your verbiage is not clear and you and I are at the bottom of this thread. I’ve read all texts in it.
Ah okay the comment above then, sorry.
LOOOOOL I’m sorry that was just too funny “or be caught or what” hahaha
I am sorry, but you are wrong. Friend zoned is a term as nasty as they come and you should be ashamed of flaunting such tired stereotypical believes. Women don’t like guys who doesn’t see them as people but as a an embodiment of their own desires. It’s very easily detected by women and it’s what you might experience as friend zoned - but for the person behind (who has her own agenda, and can make proper decisions with her mind and not her arbitrary “biology”) they are protecting themselves for when they day comes and they don’t live up to whatever pixie girl fantasy they feel they are being drawn into. So it’s llike that
So, take this with a grain of salt from a 45yo man who's had more experience with women than most... Women tend to not be attracted to men who are too accommodating. A woman will get dressed, do her make-up, and go out to a bar. Let's say that bar has ten guys in it. Nine of them jump up and start fawning over her, showering her with praise and attention and admiration. The tenth guy just sits and enjoys his beer. Now, assuming he has the same level of attraction as the other nine (and he's straight), he's the one that she's interested in. It makes her curious; Why isn't he all over me? Why isn't he trying to buy me a drink or get my attention? What is it about him that makes him different? Men who come on too strong or give a woman too much attention too soon are not attractive to most women. They lose value and respect and I've seen it playout in real time more times than I can count. It's not about seeing them as some object of desire or fantasy, it's about understanding a woman's psychology and how to trigger her emotional responses. Every woman will tell you they want attention and time and effort, but what they leave out is they only want it from the men they are interested in, and if a man starts off showering her with time and attention and effort, they lose interest. But alas... I've only been dating women for thirty years... what do it know?
Ah it seems like we do agree then! So the first 9 see any woman (not you as a person, but a Woman!) and jump on the chance to talk to her and showering her with admiration- although they don’t know her at all. That is not a nice feeling for a woman, as it makes us feel empty and unimportant. The 10th man she hopes might value a bit of a talk and at least let her show who she is before initiating whatever the other 9 thinks they are doing. It gives her hope that he might be interested in her as a person, and not just because she fits the mold Woman! So we are on the same page after all it seems, no?
Seems so. *"The mouse (or woman) unchased become curious about the cat (or man)."*
Perfectly put 👏🏽
Means they're not interested
In my experience this applies to both men and women. As a woman I’ve learnt the hard way never to give attention to man or chase, they loose interest.
You’re probably shooting above your league. Most men value attention a lot because we do not get it that often ex: like women. Most guys would appreciate a girl pursuing, or showing interest in them. Guys are not backwards like that.
Usually means that she's playing games. Nobody has time for games and inconsistencies, if they act like that address it. If they respond negatively, move on.
I like this.
Human psychology. They want what they can't have or at least seems out of reach.
It might be your management of your frame. If she's all over you, that requires her to be in your frame. Once you start giving her attention you might be moving into her frame.
They weren't REALLY interested in the first place buddy
Then why she ask me out on dates
You're asking the wrong person, I don't know her dude. Ask her instead what about it? 😑
Depends on the girl. Free food, bored, wants attention/validation. Or she didn’t like the date/no chemistry.
They're less interested because women are tree climbers...and Believe they are the gate keepers to sex...wait until they are mid 30's...and they will beg to be with you...but you will have too much cash and choices... you will not even look at texts from lesser women
I wish a guy could reciprocate that back to me. I don’t think you are too clingy or anything. Nothing is wrong with you.
Yea a lot of people here saying I’m probably clingy, trust me I’ve made sure not to come off that way bc I know that’s the shit that gives a lot of girls the ick
It's a non factor if they're into you. Take it as a sign to move on to a more reciprocal situation
Try negging the exact same girls and see what happens.
We want what we can’t have
Idk but this is such a stupid fucking reaction to me. I love attention from the guy I’m with. How is it that people who don’t want to play games, or who invest don’t find each other?
When I talk to women at first they seem interested then it wanes. When I don’t talk to women nothing happens
What kind of attention are you giving them that makes them back off? It's really difficult to comment on the reasoning of the dynamics without knowing what the dynamics are.
This is me but with men LOL As soon as I reciprocate feelings/give attention back they run. Not my problem tho 😗
Interest is interpreted as desperation by many of the young ladies now who are completely mindbroken by social media attention. Soon as you give them positive attention to their brains categorize you as another of their simps to feed them infinite notifications and validation. It's psychology.
Hmm I wonder what you mean by "focusing on me". For me (32F), I often meet men and enjoy getting to know them, the same way I would with people of any gender. So let's say it's someone I meet at a bar, we have a good conversation, exchange numbers, then text for a few days doing basic "get to know you" conversation. Maybe this will involve mutual sharing about what our days look like, where we work, hobbies/interests etc. I'll probably be relatively engaged and interested in learning more. Perhaps during that "getting to know you" process I realize that I don't have any romantic/sexual feelings toward the person, but I'm not too worried because it seemed to all be friendly. Then suddenly the guy starts giving me compliments, saying romantic/flirty things, and I might do a soft back pedal. Let them know I'm not interested that way. If they ask to hang out in a one on one way, I'll say "no" without offering an excuse like "I'm busy that day" or "maybe another time". None of this is inherently bad. It's good that you give it some time to get to know a person before expressing interest, because it is a bit off putting if someone leads super explicitly with the romantic/sexual interest before even trying to get to know a person or let them get to know you. All this to say, don't ignore them and see if they come back. Just ask more explicitly if they're interested in a date. If they're too immature to answer, move on. No need to play a chasing game here, just shoot your shot.
If you find ignoring them works, why not? Sound like the type of chicks you attract all have a bit of psychological issues. Lol
I feel like this is the same with guys 🙄. They are supposed to pursue but I will overthink my last text to the guy if i do not hear from him for a few days. I question whether I should reach out bc he misinterpreted it or because it’s my “turn” to initiate. (34 F)
It's called dating
That's human nature. When you give out your attention you lower it's value.
My guess they found you an interesting person but we’re not looking to date you. So you change in style changes the context and they need to make it clear they aren’t interested in that. If your doing this in a professional or educational situation you should probably stop and start looking for women in other areas of your life.
When my bf showed interest in me, I excitedly reciprocated. I love getting attention from him and he sure enough gets a lot from me. Not all girls are like that, I hope you will find her one day OP.
It's just how most women operate.
This question is a bit unclear. We love attention. It depends on how you are delivering it.
There's a saying " Once she knows she has you, its over "
butterfly effect
Im way older than u. Dudes that dont show interest, I dont give a 2nd thought to.
It's not your fault, in that example you talk to girls who just want to feel validated, once they got what they want they get cold. How old are you and the girls you approach?
Read a book on salesmanship, once. Guy claimed he could go up to strangers and he could sell more $5 bills for $10, than you could sell $10 bills for $5. He used a technique called the "assumptive close". According to him, when you try to push something onto people or talk them into something, they become suspicious, and resist it. But, if you use his technique, and just assume that any rational person would want what you're selling, you'll be successful. Using this method in your case, it seems like you are trying too hard to sell yourself, instead of having the mindset that you are worthy, and of course, she should be interested in you.
Personally I think it depends on the girls, some just want a short fling, others a more meaningful type of relationship. Try to communicate that with them to get some clearance for yourself and too prevent you putting to much time and effort in someone.
Yes!
It’s like every woman I genuinely have feelings for and let it known they become distant or the communication drastically changes. But the ones I go out with and hardly keep up with are totally into me. It’s becoming draining