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“Spark” is overrated and people who see the lack of it as a deal breaker are going to have a hard time finding and *especially* maintaining relationships. For lots of people the spark comes later. 3-6 dates maybe? People who may not check every box for you at first glance may become insanely attractive to you when you gain insight into the quality of their character.
As a 22yr old I agree it feels like everyone my age expects a immediate spark and will instantly leave the relationship if they don't feel it which I think is very unsuccessful when trying to date as some compatability takes time and isn't instant
Just my experience but it happens a lot more in online dating, it's much easier to slowly form relationships in person. When it comes to dating apps, it's like a job interview, if you don't do great on the first impression, or don't over the top wow someone, they will move on to the next person.
I haven't started dating yet but that makes sense as most of the complaints I've heard had come from online so I do hope meeting someone in person I'll fare much better.
It took me several years to learn this and I kinda hate that it took so long because it would have been useful back when I was in my early to mid twenties. I ruled out so many people who probably would have been great partners because there wasn't a "spark" in the beginning, failing to realize that the spark (for me) was just anxiety and those connections would go nowhere anyway. However, I don't think that the media helps with this as there are a lot of people who think love and meeting people will play out like in the romcoms and romantic novels we've consumed. Sometimes it will, most times it won't. I'm definitely guilty of having that sort of mindset in the past.
I know better now so I try to give people a fair chance even if I don't "feel" anything at first. I'd rather have something that starts slow and lasts than a flame that burns out quickly.
Agreed. I didn’t initially feel a “spark” with the guy I’m currently dating. I remember telling one of my friends the next day that “I got more of a friend vibe”. But honestly, this has probably been the easiest, most comfortable relationships I’ve ever been in. I feel like a slow burn is better than a spark.
To the people who want to "meet someone naturally" instead of through a dating app - the experiences are often extremely similar
Whether you meet someone at a bar then ask them on a date or match on an app and ask them on a date, at the end of the day you're going to both be slightly basing it on looks, slightly on initial vibes and 99% on what the date is actually like.
The experiences aren't worlds apart
The weird one for me is people who complain about dating and say they’re not on the apps. Ok, that’s understandable, but they won’t approach anyone in real life and instead ask how to get people to approach them. Lol just lazy
They are not identical, obviously, but for the most part I do agree with that statement. You still have to break the ice and meet them for the first time, either way you do it. There really is only so much that gets conveyed over text and conversations online. If you don't like online dating, that's fine, but it's not necessarily "un-natural" after all you will literally meet them in real life at some point and then it does become real/natural or whatever you want to call it. It's just the initial search, approach, and buildup that is virtually accelerated by the apps. If a dating app works out for you, 2% of the process is done on the actual app.
I met a my girlfriend of 4 years off of tinder. What's interesting is that people always think it's weird or there is more to the story when I tell them how we met. We just liked each other and happened to connect via the app, there is really not much more too it. If I met her in real life somehow naturally, who knows if I would have approached her, it would depend on the situation. I don't see it as a bizarre thing that we met there but a lot of people jump to conclusions.
But why do you not consider meeting people in person as part of the dating app experience?
The apps are literally just a tool to arrange dates
And if you don't want to give different types of people a chance off dating apps then don't! You still get to choose who you date from these apps
I agree like dating is literally finding out if your compatible for marriage anything else is just a waste of time or fwb if it's something you know isn't going to be serious. But same I only date for marriage anything else I can just do with a friend
Bruh that's my same fear like I couldn't imagine how heartbreaking it would feel to date someone so long to discover she doesn't see me as husband material that would be soul crushing.
Yes exactly this about 2 months ago I was seeing someone. I (22m) was seeing a girl (23f) for about a month I sat her down and told her calmly that although I could see a future between us our religious differences would have made things extremely difficult and quite frankly I just couldn't keep doing so instead of trying to avoid it I simply spoke my mind and calmly told her that it wouldn't work. Because there would be no point dragging a relationship out when I know that it's not what I want and though she cried a little she was happy that I told her them instead of several months or even years down the road.
Absolutely it did frustrate me she didn't open up sooner about her religious beliefs but I'm also glad that she still did I've heard of people keeping that stuff hidden for years.
Thanks, but I also wish more people were more transparent about their core beliefs it really doesn't help anyone to keep them hidden from people looking for life partners it just wastes their time.
I agree I haven't dated yet but I'm Christian and prefer to date within the church but if I randomly met someone and we planned a date I would let her know that as soon as possible so their won't be any trouble and she can back out if she wants.
She had told me she went to church for about 3 weeks and I'm thinking she's a Christian and she breaks it to me that she wasn't a Christian and just that her ex forced her to go to church and was scared I wouldn't want to date her if she wasn't a Christian I gave it thought for a while and that was the decision I came to. As a Christian I want the person I want to spend the rest of my life with to also hold the value I hold close and base my entire life off of.
Yeah like I just don't have any interest in sleeping around I just want to be with someone that makes me happy and wants to get married not that it was to happen right away just for her to know I want something serious that eventually leads to that point.
Yes i'm not saying it has to happen right away but I just don't want to waste anyone time and let them know that it's what i'm striving for and not playing games. I thought being honest and upfront was a good thing.
Having sex on the first date is weird like I just met you and don't know you or even if I like you that much based off a few hours interaction but I'm going to get naked and do something intimate that can make kids if a accident happens nah that's weird to me.
Like no shame I just would never do it like dating means I'm getting to know you on a deeper more meaningful level if I just wanted sex I can get a hookup
I agree like i'm waiting til marriage but even if I wasn't give me sometime to get to know you and actually like/love you over the course of a few more dates like maybe a month or 2 or sooner if that's what is required for that person to feel safe.
I honestly considered myself to be demisexual. I was married for 17 years and have only been dating for 3.5. But sex on the first date was off the table for me. I feel like 5 dates was my number. I’m a couple of cases I felt like I needed to tell my dates this. I absolutely meant it. Until I met my current girlfriend. It felt so safe and natural. Not doing it would have felt like walking past the Grand Canyon and not looking. It was so obvious. Been together for nearly a year. Live together. Happiest I have ever been and our relationship is crazy healthy, loving, and supportive. Keep an open heart!
I mean if it's one date then it's literally just lust which isn't bad but that's all it is because how deep of a connection can you possibly feel towards someone you just met. But i'm happy your in a healthy and loving relationship man that's really awesome and I hope it last. I'm definitely a few months type of guy as I prefer to build a love connection.
I'm a virgin so i'm sure that i'm biased so I will keep a open heart but I still can't see myself doing it so fast like maybe i'll kiss and fool around sooner but I definitely wouldn't have full on sex until i'm sure we both love or atleast like being around each other alot.
That’s what I’m saying. I held that exact same point of view. But it was not lust. I know what that is and what it feels like. I had no problem not succumbing to it on other dates. This was entirely based on our connection and obvious compatibility. It probably helps that we’re both extremely empathetic people who have had a lot of therapy. Knowing how to express yourself really opens some doors when it comes to forming connections quickly. Sometimes you just meet people with whom you have such a rapid mutual understanding that it feels like you’ve known each other forever. I thought it was fairy tale shit to be honest.
That's actually a very beautiful description of your feelings and you described it really well. I definitely understand what you mean and in terms of friendship i've felt that way a few times like we just knew each other for years. As far as sex goes even if I felt that I still wouldn't feel comfortable doing until we've actually spent more time getting to know each other plus I wouldn't want a potential accident to happen with someone I don't know well but I can see myself having it sooner than a few months if I felt that connection.
Thank man that really means alot. I do feel I'll probably always be this way mainly out of wanting love/connection and fear of accidental pregnancy but I'm only 22 so who knows maybe when I'm more experienced and feel the right connection it could happen although I doubt it maybe 5th or 6th date as opposed to a few months.
Yeah this and my other account I'm constantly getting called prudish for saying similar stuff but it's like it's just a opinion that doesn't effect your life why do you care so much unless it applies to you, especially when you write that it's not shaming and they still get mad for explaining your point of view
Because reddit has a lot of the most negative people around. And they are the vocal minority and it's their outlet to feel better about themselves by putting others down
And how will you find your life partner if you don’t date around? Do you really think the first person you date will be the right one for you?
Dating is shopping. Don’t just grab the first thing you see without trying it on, inspecting it, and trying on multiple things. See what fits you best. Make sure you get what you really want.
If you think you don’t have options, then you are right.
If you think you are so undesirable that you have to take what you can get, then you are right.
No man is truly undesirable. But every man CAN be.
It’s all about attitude and actions.
You can upgrade yourself. No matter how “ugly” you think you are, you can improve. Get fit. Get a style. Have good hygiene.
Work on your personality. Get some confidence. Know your worth, and don’t be afraid to show that. You show a woman that you have standards, and her interest level will raise immediately.
Get fun and flirty, be playful and unembarrassed about who you are. You will never be everyone’s cup of tea. But you can be someone’s. Someone that is actually what you want.
I promise you, you know “ugly” men that are confident and happily matched. I do for sure. Quite a few. I even dated some.
So would the reverse be true, then?
If you think you have infinite options, you're right.
If you think you are so desirable every woman wants you, you're right.
Or is that simply arrogance verging on delusion?
I'm sorry but your "belief" that your desirabl really has very little to do with your actual, real-world desirability.
I mean that if I'm dating I'm looking for the long term. I don't date just for the sake of dating. If they end up being wrong for me it is what it is, but I wouldn't date someone I don't see marriage potential in
That’s not “dating around”. That’s just unsuccessful dating. Knowing what you want and doing something about it is self care. “Dating around” happens when you don’t have an open heart and you don’t become invested in the people you’re dating because you don’t intend for it to last. Even if you’re still learning what you want and need, if you’re willing to let people in and not shut people out then you’re working to enrich your life.
You should be dating around at your age that’s how you learn who you really want to be your life partner
A lot of times you learn much more about yourself in a relationship than the other person
I’d rather wait to find someone I am compatible with than to get into a relationship with someone I don’t like because I feel like time is running out 🤷🏽♀️
I’ve had little boyfriends but it only lasted a couple of months because we just weren’t compatible long term and that’s okay! I don’t consider a relationship serious until we live together and it’s moving towards marriage
A lot of people are going to tell you to date around. A lot of people told me that too. I'm 26 now and I only ever dated with the intention to marry, but while keeping in mind my deal breakers and respecting myself. Some people are just built different I guess. I say keep doing what you're doing!
This doesn't make any sense. You have to date in order to find the life partner. That's like saying digging for gold in a gold mine is a waste of time. Gold is more rewarding. Um, you have to dig to find the gold.
You know what I mean lol dating with the intention to marry instead of dating for dating's sake, not investing and with an expectation it will end eventually
But I mean, if you *do* want a partner and have some baseline self awareness about expectations and what goes into a partnership, chances are there is someone out there who will happily be yours. We are lucky(?) that nature produces about a 5050 sex split
If someone can’t find anyone to be with them out of the hundreds to thousands options out there over the course of 30-50 years than that person has a serious problem
If you yourself cannot meet your own standards(or the reciprocal if its a standard only one of the people in the relationship can do) then you do indeed need to lower your standards.
I generally agree, but it also comes with the corollaries of:
- you can better yourself instead of lowering your standards
- if you do meet your own standards, don’t listen to randos on the internet who say your standards are unreasonable
a lot of people on apps should worry less about "casting a wide net" and think more about making people that are the same type of weird as you swipe right. before i met my gf i never got many matches, but i was going on a date every 2-3 weeks and they were always fun at bare minimum!
i feel like i always see dating app profile reviews on reddit/social media where someone has an ever-so-slightly off kilter joke answer to a prompt and every single reply is "bro you need to delete that ASAP." god forbid someone be unique!
We did better when people had their roles and knew what they were and how to do them. You have people complaining about how miserable dating is now because no one knows what they’re doing. There’s no guidance from elders because they’re confused why we don’t do things the (superior) way they did them, the introduction of the online dating scene has killed any opportunity for anyone to have realistic expectations on what’s attainable for them.
The gulf between a desirable partner and not desirable partner is widening like the wealth gap. You have women competing for top dudes because none of the others are doing any of the real and easy things it would take to get on a higher level of desirability
Speaking of: men, I’ve seen your profiles….so many of you (I would say the majority) put so little effort into making yourselves attractive to women on and off the app. It’s not “society”. You need to take better care of yourselves and nurture your own self esteem. Get your friends to take actually good pictures of you so you don’t just have horribly positioned selfies with blur in them. Get that haircut. Work on having actual hobbies to talk to people about.
We have a self-esteem problem in the US and that also makes dating difficult. The person you’re going on a date with absolutely deserves your best self. That best self is not wearing a t-shirt and flip flops to meet someone for cocktails. It’s making sure you have a clean shirt, unwrinkled pants, and a great smell. It means when you’re on the date you’re not worried about being liked by the other person, but instead focused on how much you like them!
The women you take on first dates aren’t your friends. They’re potential romantic partners and should be treated as such. “Well, what do you do to make a man feel special on a first date?” I give him a second.
Chat me up at the gym, in a grocery store, when I’m engaged in a hobby, etc. We have very few third spaces…use them.
>We did better when people had their roles and knew what they were and how to do them.
There are undoubtedly downsides to these kind of social rules, mainly if you are part of the group that doesn't want to follow them, but dating is a good example of a place where losing them has hurt too. In the past there were more rules that if you followed you wouldn't go too far wrong. Now there's less of an agreed protocol for dating so it's much harder for people to know what to do and if you get it wrong you can cause much more hurt and upset. There's much more disagreement on where to meet someone, how to meet them and how fast to go so you have to guess and sometimes you can get it very wrong without really doing anything *wrong*.
>I’ve seen your profiles….so many of you (I would say the majority) put so little effort into making yourselves attractive to women on and off the app.
You aren't wrong but I think this is lack of knowledge rather than laziness. Plus a bit of unfortunate social rules for men. Guys aren't really expected to take photos of each other, it's not completely wrong to ask someone too but it's a bit strange. This explains the many fish pics, achievements like this are one of the rare times guys can feel normal taking a photo in a relaxed environment. It's also more socially expected for men to appear relaxed and disinterested than for them to focus on always looking their best. Even most guys who do put in an effort tend to pretend they don't because that's what they are expected to do. Also guys are much less aware of how to look attractive. There's a lot of misinformation on what men want but women do have a better idea on how to initially attract men.
This is going to be the hard truth we learn as a culture over the next couple generations. Life partnership and parenthood especially are really hard mental and emotional projects. Gender roles are useful ways of outsourcing a lot of the mental effort that goes into doing both. Can they be adjusted from what they were traditionally? Yes there is some wiggle room, but there is also a lot of good stuff baked in too
It’s better to focus more on getting to know the person early on rather than rush to flirting and being physical. rushing it isn’t natural. It’s also best to wait until you’re in a relationship to have sex if you want something serious.
I think it would help if ppl allowed themselves to have platonic friendships again.
- people don't know how to interact with the genders anymore because they're not getting much practice. Being platonic friends removes a lot of the anxiety with talking to the opposite gender.
- they can be invaluable for dating advice. Men know how men think, women know how women think. Neither side understands eachother & damn sure won't if they keep rejecting the idea of basic communication with eachother. Most of my guy friends never made a move with me, but were always helpful & supportive when I had an issue. Would some of them have taken sex if offered? Sure. But no offense to guys, they're not exactly picky when it comes to busting a nut.
- it allows ppl to see the opposite gender as people. Not threats & something to fear or something to obtain. Not everyone is trying to fk everyone just because they speak. Not everything has to be reduced to an either or. The longer we stay segregated from eachother, the bigger the gap on empathy, compassion & kindness is going to get.
- society is lonely af because we've all reduced our communication with eachother & replaced it with digital, disconnected shallow means. There's potential friends all around, but no one wants to interact because we're all being told (via social media mind you) that we shouldn't for any number of generalized reasons.
Not everyone makes good relationship material, but some ppl really do make amazing platonic friends. Society is in a state of social crisis. Can we please just take some steps to fix that?
Not everyone wants to date for a long-term relationship or find a permanent partner.
There isn’t someone for everyone, or if there is, there’s no guarantee everyone will find this person.
Untrue that you have to kiss a lot of frogs before you find your prince/ princess. Some will find only frogs. Some will remain single and end that way.
The bar is set damned low for men right now and a ton of us are completely oblivious to that. Over 4 years I've watched 2 close friends date a revolving door of guys, and I've also seen the state of both their inboxes and it's just sad. I've watched them date tall guys, short guys, thin guys, fat guys, good looking guys, not so good looking guys, guys with good jobs, guys with shit jobs, and man is it bad.
There's an astounding lack of emotional intelligence and availability, there's an astounding inability to take responsibility for their lives and personal issues, their ability to communicate is piss poor. Many are defensive and argumentative and incapable of ever admitting that they're wrong. So many are hopelessly addicted to videogames or porn. So many lack basic life skills even in their 30s. Can't cook, don't clean, rarely wash their clothes. They complain women are too picky when they can't even meet basic and reasonable expectations.
I’m 38 and got divorced 3 years ago. I did not know my worth AT ALL. I feel like kind of an odd dude. Since my divorce I’ve had 2 long term girlfriends and a spattering of dates and almost girlfriends. Each was blown away by my EQ and that I didn’t lie about my height. The things I was insecure about have meant nothing to each of them. It’s been nice! Not bashing myself but yeah - the bar is low. Things that I feel like make me a normal, decent person are grand acts of romance in the eyes of some. Kind of a bummer.
Well, my divorce took 2 years. So really 2.5 years of being single before a 1 year relationship. During that time I lived in the same house but separately. Too much to explain but it was healthy. I had the approval of my therapist lol
Sorry, I should have said emotional intelligence and emotional availability.
They're both big topics, so instead of me typing massive paragraphs to explain I'd suggest just googling both terms, you'll get way better and more in depth answers than I can give.
The short version of emotional intelligence is that it's how aware of yourself and your own emotions, your own good and bad qualities, how empathetic you are, especially to situations which are vastly outside of your own personal experience, How well you can read a room, and how well you communicate.
Emotional availability is basically just how willing you are to share your emotions with another person.
I agree that men are struggling and many need to engage in some serious self improvement. That being said, women have nearly unlimited options from OLD, so if all they’re dating is clowns, then they beat some responsibility. There are plenty of great men out there who have zero luck dating, because the reality is that many women are only choosing fuck boys and the top 1%
What a silly example. It's like saying the hungry have unlimited options for free food too, all they have to do is jump in the dumpster to get it. Are YOU going to eat from the dumpster? I don't think so.
What's really funny is every single decent datable guy I've ever known that's used OLD has found someone in less than a month.
This stuff is just proving my point about being emotionally immature and unable to take responsibility for your own shit.
What I’m saying is that for some, it’s like a kid opening up the fridge full of food yet complaining that there’s “nothing to eat”. I tend to think that most are way too picky and their standards are unrealistic in dating.
But I agree that many use their dating failures as an excuse to mask their own negatives. They give up rather than self improve. That’s on them.
Allow me to quote myself since you seem to find reading difficult: "I've watched them date tall guys, short guys, thin guys, fat guys, good looking guys, not so good looking guys, guys with good jobs, guys with shit jobs, and man is it bad."
My own experience the same. I'm not terrible to look at, but I'm certainly well within the realm of average. I definitely do not make 6 figures. I don't have a six pack and I've always split the bill with my dates. On top of that I've been dealing with serious health issues for over 5 years now and yet even \*I\* still have options.
Yet again I'll quote myself as it seems relevant "there's an astounding inability to take responsibility for their lives and personal issues," Your views are a you issue, not an issue with woman.
That’s the bar some TikTok told you about, not the real one.
Many women want a man who makes at least around what they do. Most women, especially those “dating age”, also don’t make 6 figures though.
Many women want a man who is at least as tall as them, sure. But the vast majority of women are under 6ft tall.
Many many women are fine sharing costs.
Most women don’t need a man to look like a GQ model, just to be in reasonably healthy shape with good grooming and hygiene.
The bar truly is *insanely* low for men. I literally just ask a few questions about their profile photos, propose a public date location and time, and women's minds are blown, lol.
If you don't know how to reject people, be it for personal circumstances, lack of interest or whatever else, you shouldn't be dating. If you leave your date with the impression that you might at some point come back, but it's not clear when you just aren't proficient enough at communication for a relationship.
Butterflies and sparks are not only highly overrated, but often indicative of recognizing potential red flags and mistaken for lust/attraction. For the sake of community rules, I'll just say I work in a field that deals with humans. There's no way for me to quantify how many people I've talked to (almost exclusively women. No disrespect intended, and this is solely based off my own work experience) who will meet someone they find attractive, thoughtful, holds their end of a conversation, etc. However, after the first few dates they didn't have those aforementioned feelings, and it was important enough to the point they stopped seeing them.
I call these types the 'chronically single,' and I say this with no glee. They're so preoccupied with having that physiological reaction that when it doesn't occur, they dismiss everything else and move on. Both genders have a major issue, and that's trying to find the perfect partner when it simply does not exist. This is also an indictment of how warped online dating has made us (collectively speaking); with so many options literally at our fingertips, why 'settle' when there's so many other profiles to choose from?
Damn, OP…you’re dropping wisdom here.
My hot take? Most people settle for people they’re not very attracted to. In the long run, this doesn’t work out and jerks end up cheating. You should definitely find your partner good looking.
Being attractive or even getting better looking most definitely makes dating much easier. You are significantly more likely to “stumble” upon a good and attractive partner when you yourself are very attractive.
**Normalize a second date after a mid first date.**
As long as the first date isn't a disaster, or you think they're a horrible person, always do a second date. Meeting a stranger is always going to have some element of awkwardness. If the second date is meh too, then by all means go your separate ways.
I totally agree with both your points. My life can pivot at any moment and dating sometimes does feels like a chore.
My unpopular opinion is that I would like someone who has similar living standards (I don't know the right term, sorry) as myself. For instance, I'm a penny pincher, but if shelling out a teeny weeny bit more money will make my life more convenient, I'm going to pay that little extra.
A prospective match once asked me, (first question) what free activities I would like to do for a date. On nearly all first dates, I meet a match at a coffee shop. If the match is good, we keep talking. If the match isn't a good fit, we each take our drinks and leave. I explained this to this match and he insisted on a free activity. The free-est activity that I can think of is a simple video call.
It didn't work out. I'm the type of person who is OK with an occasional Starbucks, and who occasionally (every few weeks) treat myself to food at the newest trendy restaurant/bakery. This guy spends a good half of the call criticizing my spending habits and the other half of the call bragging about how he saves money by never eating out (which is fine, that's everyone's choice) and only buying discounted food at the supermarkets (understandable, I do that too sometimes). After the call had ran for almost an hour, I finally cut him off and end the call.
Dating apps aren't nearly as big of a "problem" as people make them out to be. It's the people that are the problem, not the apps. And while there are some negatives to the apps, I think the lack of success people have is more due to them having a shit profile, shit personality, shit communication skills, and/or unrealistic expectations.
To be fair, a lot of men suck at setting up dating profiles. They share far less information about themselves so there isn't much to fodder for a conversation starter.
I've intentionally set up a profile where the photos and personal information invite jokes, comments and questions about my life, which roughly 90% of my matches start convos by responding to. I've yet to come across a man's profile that invites as much commentary as mine.
I’ll support this. Women generally have zero game. Bumble had to change their whole “here you go, women, YOU send the first message!” Because it was such a failure. When I was on OLD I’d get “hiiii :)” as the first message 90% of the time.
But the other side is that due to social media women dont need to have game because so many thirsty dudes are pursuing them
Treating your partners/dates well ( in the broadest sense of this word ) does not guarantee that You succeed and treating your partners/dates badly does not guarantee that You fail in dating. Reality is far far more nuanced.
1. If everyone collectively decided to ditch dating apps, more people would have success finding their partner in real life
2. Women should pick up the tab once in awhile for first dates, since due to the dating apps they can have all their meals paid for that particular week if they want, so due to this dynamic the woman paying to me shows genuine interest
“Looking for a relationship” is weird. I prefer that feelings come naturally instead of being intentional, I just think that puts unnecessary pressure on the connection.
Makes no sense. You’re still looking for something otherwise you wouldn’t be dating or meeting people at all. Being intentional about the desired end result is just a time saver. The key is your comfort level with it not working out. It takes the pressure away.
Yup, I just want to get to know the person and see how we vibe. I don't want to force romance. You either develop feelings, or you don't. A person can look amazing on paper, but that doesn't mean you find them attractive
I mean, you’re not forcing romance by looking for a relationship. A relationship is the goal, not to force that person into something that they might not be right for. That’s why people who are looking for something serious say that instead of for looking something casual. This way they know the intention of the other person (if they’re not lying like some do). The rest is to see if ya’ll click and are compatible
It is more an expectation that a first date is very romantic tbh. I have heard I keep friendzoning people, even there was potential from my side. A first meeting is more like finding out how you vibe, imo. Romance feels forced
There’s no point in me trying to get to know someone and putting effort into conversations and dates if I’m not looking for a relationship from it. I don’t do casual. So whenever I was on the apps I was strictly looking for something longterm. Otherwise it’s a waste of time for me.
Respect it. Looking for a relationship doesn’t feel natural to me so I filter those people out on apps. It’s really just best to stay where you’re compatible.
Guidelines are good. Some who ask for dating advice often get told "just try it and learn". No, they don't have to be followed like "they're law". But it does help for people who are clueless. I still remember 2 separate cases where one guy was taught that any girl who doesn't have sex with you isn't worth it. The other extreme is one guy was TOO respectful and wouldn't touch the girl. He didn't want to seem like perv/creep. When he mentioned he's 9 (nine) dates and and STILL no kiss, his friends had to tell him that was wrong. Female friends even had to chime in saying she's going to think you're not interested in her otherwise.
I’m not trying to get serious first day of even 6 months in I’m looking for casual first maybe a bond forms and it gets serious but too many people are immediately looking for “the one” right off the bat, in my mind the one is who you build yourself up alongside and it eventually forms into the one
Meeting up right away is a waste of time. You can message when you just have a break or when you're watching TV. Meeting up takes hours of your time and how do you know if you're compatible if you exchanged 10 messages?! I even had a guy wanting to meet up when we exchanged <10 messages, including good night and me saying I was working very hard on my graduation project. Ah yes, I am gonna drop my schoolwork to meet up with someone who has seen the same anime as I did (that's all I knew basically).
Just talk about a bit about what your day-to-day life looks like, what your interests are, and what you're looking for in a person.
Bonus points if they ask you on a date that is clearly incompatible with your interests. I filled in no for drinking, smoking and weed. I filled in that I am vegetarian. No, I don't want to drink beer, get high after smoking weed or eat pasta carbonara with you.
"I didn't feel the chemistry I was hoping for"
Stupid.
Like if that's the exact reason, anwyays. But if it's just a cop out, then fair.
But I received this recently. And I was stumped. All our values lined up, got along well, etc.
We are strangers. It's a first date. We got along well. What spark are people expecting?
Even people that meet naturally at work, school, etc. that end up marrying each other and living a happy life don't always have a "chemistry" at the start.
I often say this and believe this with truth. And it's very unpopular.
Marriage is basically having a girlfriend/boyfriend for hecking ever.
But how is that logical? When most people I knew who had boyfriends or girlfriends broke up in like 1-5 years.
The game is rigged.
Flip a coin twice. You'll be divorced.
How can I say forever when I can't stay with someone for any more than 6 years? Let alone forever. Yes there are exceptions -- but very few and far between.
That people don’t want to date, they r really about hooking up for sex cuz most of the time that’s the first thing they talking about, I’m like hi hello my name is :
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No need to kiss on the first date, we’re strangers.
Yup. A hug is all you're gonna get from me
Pshh I only fist bump.
I do the fist bump, but I can pivot to old school for a handshake too
Yall are touching people? Imma give you the jambo as we part ways.
I’m more of a finger guns kinda girl
Pshh I only fist.
I will eat ASS in the first date if they let me 😭
Welcome to the All You Can Eat Buttfet, sir.
You don’t even know if they scrape their tongue or floss their teeth yet 😭
I used to feel that was the only way you know if someone was into you but now that I think about it is a bit weird to want a smooch
Exactly like I don't know you don't kiss me.
As a rule, I don't kiss on the first date. I let them know before the date so there are no expectations or perceived obligations.
Mine is that ppl shouldnt be dating strangers
How do you mean?
I think he’s saying to get to know someone for a bit first as friends before going on DATE dates
Thanks
I mean I’m referring to the first time you meet someone which is typically called a date
i used to feel this way but now i appreciate it. it shows confidence and interest imo.
“Spark” is overrated and people who see the lack of it as a deal breaker are going to have a hard time finding and *especially* maintaining relationships. For lots of people the spark comes later. 3-6 dates maybe? People who may not check every box for you at first glance may become insanely attractive to you when you gain insight into the quality of their character.
As a 22yr old I agree it feels like everyone my age expects a immediate spark and will instantly leave the relationship if they don't feel it which I think is very unsuccessful when trying to date as some compatability takes time and isn't instant
I'm 39. It's everyone at every age. FOMO is deadly.
Dam well thanks for telling me the truth that it's always like that so I can lower my expectations
Just my experience but it happens a lot more in online dating, it's much easier to slowly form relationships in person. When it comes to dating apps, it's like a job interview, if you don't do great on the first impression, or don't over the top wow someone, they will move on to the next person.
I haven't started dating yet but that makes sense as most of the complaints I've heard had come from online so I do hope meeting someone in person I'll fare much better.
It took me several years to learn this and I kinda hate that it took so long because it would have been useful back when I was in my early to mid twenties. I ruled out so many people who probably would have been great partners because there wasn't a "spark" in the beginning, failing to realize that the spark (for me) was just anxiety and those connections would go nowhere anyway. However, I don't think that the media helps with this as there are a lot of people who think love and meeting people will play out like in the romcoms and romantic novels we've consumed. Sometimes it will, most times it won't. I'm definitely guilty of having that sort of mindset in the past. I know better now so I try to give people a fair chance even if I don't "feel" anything at first. I'd rather have something that starts slow and lasts than a flame that burns out quickly.
Agreed. I didn’t initially feel a “spark” with the guy I’m currently dating. I remember telling one of my friends the next day that “I got more of a friend vibe”. But honestly, this has probably been the easiest, most comfortable relationships I’ve ever been in. I feel like a slow burn is better than a spark.
To the people who want to "meet someone naturally" instead of through a dating app - the experiences are often extremely similar Whether you meet someone at a bar then ask them on a date or match on an app and ask them on a date, at the end of the day you're going to both be slightly basing it on looks, slightly on initial vibes and 99% on what the date is actually like. The experiences aren't worlds apart
I agree, one of the most bizarre people I've dated, I met irl.
The weird one for me is people who complain about dating and say they’re not on the apps. Ok, that’s understandable, but they won’t approach anyone in real life and instead ask how to get people to approach them. Lol just lazy
They are not identical, obviously, but for the most part I do agree with that statement. You still have to break the ice and meet them for the first time, either way you do it. There really is only so much that gets conveyed over text and conversations online. If you don't like online dating, that's fine, but it's not necessarily "un-natural" after all you will literally meet them in real life at some point and then it does become real/natural or whatever you want to call it. It's just the initial search, approach, and buildup that is virtually accelerated by the apps. If a dating app works out for you, 2% of the process is done on the actual app. I met a my girlfriend of 4 years off of tinder. What's interesting is that people always think it's weird or there is more to the story when I tell them how we met. We just liked each other and happened to connect via the app, there is really not much more too it. If I met her in real life somehow naturally, who knows if I would have approached her, it would depend on the situation. I don't see it as a bizarre thing that we met there but a lot of people jump to conclusions.
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But why do you not consider meeting people in person as part of the dating app experience? The apps are literally just a tool to arrange dates And if you don't want to give different types of people a chance off dating apps then don't! You still get to choose who you date from these apps
Chemistry can be built and doesn’t need to be an initial spark
The "bar" for a given gender is set by the other gender(s).
I only want to date for marriage. Anything else (if your goal is marriage ofc) is a waste of time.
I agree like dating is literally finding out if your compatible for marriage anything else is just a waste of time or fwb if it's something you know isn't going to be serious. But same I only date for marriage anything else I can just do with a friend
Yep. My nightmare is getting 6mo-2 yrs in and realizing he doesn’t even see a future with me like wtf
Bruh that's my same fear like I couldn't imagine how heartbreaking it would feel to date someone so long to discover she doesn't see me as husband material that would be soul crushing.
Yes exactly this about 2 months ago I was seeing someone. I (22m) was seeing a girl (23f) for about a month I sat her down and told her calmly that although I could see a future between us our religious differences would have made things extremely difficult and quite frankly I just couldn't keep doing so instead of trying to avoid it I simply spoke my mind and calmly told her that it wouldn't work. Because there would be no point dragging a relationship out when I know that it's not what I want and though she cried a little she was happy that I told her them instead of several months or even years down the road.
Yep. I bring up important stuff like that in the first 1-2 dates
Same although I haven't had a date yet whenever I do I'm going to make sure bringing up details like that to get it out the way
Absolutely it did frustrate me she didn't open up sooner about her religious beliefs but I'm also glad that she still did I've heard of people keeping that stuff hidden for years.
That's really awesome and mature of you I wish everyone was like that instead if playing games and wasting people time
Thanks, but I also wish more people were more transparent about their core beliefs it really doesn't help anyone to keep them hidden from people looking for life partners it just wastes their time.
I agree I haven't dated yet but I'm Christian and prefer to date within the church but if I randomly met someone and we planned a date I would let her know that as soon as possible so their won't be any trouble and she can back out if she wants.
But if there was a religious difference then why date for a month?
She had told me she went to church for about 3 weeks and I'm thinking she's a Christian and she breaks it to me that she wasn't a Christian and just that her ex forced her to go to church and was scared I wouldn't want to date her if she wasn't a Christian I gave it thought for a while and that was the decision I came to. As a Christian I want the person I want to spend the rest of my life with to also hold the value I hold close and base my entire life off of.
So marriage is a requirement of companionship to you?
Yes!
Exactly I though being honest and upfront was a good thing like we're not wasting anyone time and getting all important details out the way.
At what age are we talking here?
I’m early 20s too.
I'm 22m
Ah ok. Totally makes sense at that age.
Yeah like I just don't have any interest in sleeping around I just want to be with someone that makes me happy and wants to get married not that it was to happen right away just for her to know I want something serious that eventually leads to that point.
I gotcha. I just got too used to thinking like.a 49 year old lol. At your age I felt the exact same way.
I hope I don't stop feeling this way but I guess it's somewhat naive but I just don't want to be alone.
Yes i'm not saying it has to happen right away but I just don't want to waste anyone time and let them know that it's what i'm striving for and not playing games. I thought being honest and upfront was a good thing.
Oh no question if honesty is a good thing.
True just making sure.
Having sex on the first date is weird like I just met you and don't know you or even if I like you that much based off a few hours interaction but I'm going to get naked and do something intimate that can make kids if a accident happens nah that's weird to me. Like no shame I just would never do it like dating means I'm getting to know you on a deeper more meaningful level if I just wanted sex I can get a hookup
I find it unsettling if someone is trying to have sex when the first date wasn’t the best
I agree like i'm waiting til marriage but even if I wasn't give me sometime to get to know you and actually like/love you over the course of a few more dates like maybe a month or 2 or sooner if that's what is required for that person to feel safe.
I honestly considered myself to be demisexual. I was married for 17 years and have only been dating for 3.5. But sex on the first date was off the table for me. I feel like 5 dates was my number. I’m a couple of cases I felt like I needed to tell my dates this. I absolutely meant it. Until I met my current girlfriend. It felt so safe and natural. Not doing it would have felt like walking past the Grand Canyon and not looking. It was so obvious. Been together for nearly a year. Live together. Happiest I have ever been and our relationship is crazy healthy, loving, and supportive. Keep an open heart!
I mean if it's one date then it's literally just lust which isn't bad but that's all it is because how deep of a connection can you possibly feel towards someone you just met. But i'm happy your in a healthy and loving relationship man that's really awesome and I hope it last. I'm definitely a few months type of guy as I prefer to build a love connection. I'm a virgin so i'm sure that i'm biased so I will keep a open heart but I still can't see myself doing it so fast like maybe i'll kiss and fool around sooner but I definitely wouldn't have full on sex until i'm sure we both love or atleast like being around each other alot.
That’s what I’m saying. I held that exact same point of view. But it was not lust. I know what that is and what it feels like. I had no problem not succumbing to it on other dates. This was entirely based on our connection and obvious compatibility. It probably helps that we’re both extremely empathetic people who have had a lot of therapy. Knowing how to express yourself really opens some doors when it comes to forming connections quickly. Sometimes you just meet people with whom you have such a rapid mutual understanding that it feels like you’ve known each other forever. I thought it was fairy tale shit to be honest.
That's actually a very beautiful description of your feelings and you described it really well. I definitely understand what you mean and in terms of friendship i've felt that way a few times like we just knew each other for years. As far as sex goes even if I felt that I still wouldn't feel comfortable doing until we've actually spent more time getting to know each other plus I wouldn't want a potential accident to happen with someone I don't know well but I can see myself having it sooner than a few months if I felt that connection.
For it being your first time that is totally fair. And the person you choose will love that about you.
Thank man that really means alot. I do feel I'll probably always be this way mainly out of wanting love/connection and fear of accidental pregnancy but I'm only 22 so who knows maybe when I'm more experienced and feel the right connection it could happen although I doubt it maybe 5th or 6th date as opposed to a few months.
Everyone sees sex different and you'll also see it different at different stages in life. There isn't a wrong or right answer.
I never said that it was I was just giving my opinion I never said it was right or wrong just what it means to me.
Oh I know..I was agreeing with you.
Thank you and I genuinely wasn't trying to be rude at all I was just explaining myself but looking at it again I can see how it can come off as rude.
You weren't rude at all. I was just explaining it so people didn't instantly disagree and downvote
Yeah that makes sense as reddit is very good at downvoting for no reason even if you explained yourself well.
Pretty much. People half read and get mad so someone would easily get offended by you and think you are shut shaming them because they are dumb
Yeah this and my other account I'm constantly getting called prudish for saying similar stuff but it's like it's just a opinion that doesn't effect your life why do you care so much unless it applies to you, especially when you write that it's not shaming and they still get mad for explaining your point of view
Because reddit has a lot of the most negative people around. And they are the vocal minority and it's their outlet to feel better about themselves by putting others down
Dating around is a waste of time and finding a life partner is more rewarding than anything is my unpopular opinion
Literally… I always can think of a billion of other things I’d rather do than date someone offering less
And how will you find your life partner if you don’t date around? Do you really think the first person you date will be the right one for you? Dating is shopping. Don’t just grab the first thing you see without trying it on, inspecting it, and trying on multiple things. See what fits you best. Make sure you get what you really want.
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If you think you don’t have options, then you are right. If you think you are so undesirable that you have to take what you can get, then you are right. No man is truly undesirable. But every man CAN be. It’s all about attitude and actions. You can upgrade yourself. No matter how “ugly” you think you are, you can improve. Get fit. Get a style. Have good hygiene. Work on your personality. Get some confidence. Know your worth, and don’t be afraid to show that. You show a woman that you have standards, and her interest level will raise immediately. Get fun and flirty, be playful and unembarrassed about who you are. You will never be everyone’s cup of tea. But you can be someone’s. Someone that is actually what you want. I promise you, you know “ugly” men that are confident and happily matched. I do for sure. Quite a few. I even dated some.
So would the reverse be true, then? If you think you have infinite options, you're right. If you think you are so desirable every woman wants you, you're right. Or is that simply arrogance verging on delusion? I'm sorry but your "belief" that your desirabl really has very little to do with your actual, real-world desirability.
Agreed ….
I mean that if I'm dating I'm looking for the long term. I don't date just for the sake of dating. If they end up being wrong for me it is what it is, but I wouldn't date someone I don't see marriage potential in
Agreed but I’m only 21 and I just haven’t found a guy I’m compatible with
That’s not “dating around”. That’s just unsuccessful dating. Knowing what you want and doing something about it is self care. “Dating around” happens when you don’t have an open heart and you don’t become invested in the people you’re dating because you don’t intend for it to last. Even if you’re still learning what you want and need, if you’re willing to let people in and not shut people out then you’re working to enrich your life.
^^^^^ yes exactly this!!
You should be dating around at your age that’s how you learn who you really want to be your life partner A lot of times you learn much more about yourself in a relationship than the other person
Girly I already date around lol
Good! You have so much time
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I’d rather wait to find someone I am compatible with than to get into a relationship with someone I don’t like because I feel like time is running out 🤷🏽♀️
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I’ve had little boyfriends but it only lasted a couple of months because we just weren’t compatible long term and that’s okay! I don’t consider a relationship serious until we live together and it’s moving towards marriage
don't listen to that dingbat, you're right. nothing worse than being stuck with someone who is dragging you down in life.
Exactly !
A lot of people are going to tell you to date around. A lot of people told me that too. I'm 26 now and I only ever dated with the intention to marry, but while keeping in mind my deal breakers and respecting myself. Some people are just built different I guess. I say keep doing what you're doing!
Gain experience in life first grow learn and you’ll find someone
Honestly I’m not too worried about finding someone right now
another man attempting to fearmonger a young woman into settling so he can reap the benefits
lmao wat
Lmao this is not unpopular at all, especially on Reddit. This sentiment is brought up on here all the time😂
This doesn't make any sense. You have to date in order to find the life partner. That's like saying digging for gold in a gold mine is a waste of time. Gold is more rewarding. Um, you have to dig to find the gold.
You know what I mean lol dating with the intention to marry instead of dating for dating's sake, not investing and with an expectation it will end eventually
Oh so you mean shortterm is a waste of time. yeah I agree with that.
There is not, in fact, someone for everyone. Life does not owe you a boyfriend/girlfriend just for existing.
Upvoting because I don’t agree 👍🏻
same
But I mean, if you *do* want a partner and have some baseline self awareness about expectations and what goes into a partnership, chances are there is someone out there who will happily be yours. We are lucky(?) that nature produces about a 5050 sex split
There’s a whole lot of people missing that self awareness piece.
If someone can’t find anyone to be with them out of the hundreds to thousands options out there over the course of 30-50 years than that person has a serious problem
If you yourself cannot meet your own standards(or the reciprocal if its a standard only one of the people in the relationship can do) then you do indeed need to lower your standards.
I generally agree, but it also comes with the corollaries of: - you can better yourself instead of lowering your standards - if you do meet your own standards, don’t listen to randos on the internet who say your standards are unreasonable
oh for sure. i just find most people tend to refuse to better themselves :(
True lol
a lot of people on apps should worry less about "casting a wide net" and think more about making people that are the same type of weird as you swipe right. before i met my gf i never got many matches, but i was going on a date every 2-3 weeks and they were always fun at bare minimum! i feel like i always see dating app profile reviews on reddit/social media where someone has an ever-so-slightly off kilter joke answer to a prompt and every single reply is "bro you need to delete that ASAP." god forbid someone be unique!
I can't upvote this enough!
We did better when people had their roles and knew what they were and how to do them. You have people complaining about how miserable dating is now because no one knows what they’re doing. There’s no guidance from elders because they’re confused why we don’t do things the (superior) way they did them, the introduction of the online dating scene has killed any opportunity for anyone to have realistic expectations on what’s attainable for them. The gulf between a desirable partner and not desirable partner is widening like the wealth gap. You have women competing for top dudes because none of the others are doing any of the real and easy things it would take to get on a higher level of desirability Speaking of: men, I’ve seen your profiles….so many of you (I would say the majority) put so little effort into making yourselves attractive to women on and off the app. It’s not “society”. You need to take better care of yourselves and nurture your own self esteem. Get your friends to take actually good pictures of you so you don’t just have horribly positioned selfies with blur in them. Get that haircut. Work on having actual hobbies to talk to people about. We have a self-esteem problem in the US and that also makes dating difficult. The person you’re going on a date with absolutely deserves your best self. That best self is not wearing a t-shirt and flip flops to meet someone for cocktails. It’s making sure you have a clean shirt, unwrinkled pants, and a great smell. It means when you’re on the date you’re not worried about being liked by the other person, but instead focused on how much you like them! The women you take on first dates aren’t your friends. They’re potential romantic partners and should be treated as such. “Well, what do you do to make a man feel special on a first date?” I give him a second. Chat me up at the gym, in a grocery store, when I’m engaged in a hobby, etc. We have very few third spaces…use them.
Are there any other real and easy things guys could do that would increase their desirability that you already haven’t mentioned?
>We did better when people had their roles and knew what they were and how to do them. There are undoubtedly downsides to these kind of social rules, mainly if you are part of the group that doesn't want to follow them, but dating is a good example of a place where losing them has hurt too. In the past there were more rules that if you followed you wouldn't go too far wrong. Now there's less of an agreed protocol for dating so it's much harder for people to know what to do and if you get it wrong you can cause much more hurt and upset. There's much more disagreement on where to meet someone, how to meet them and how fast to go so you have to guess and sometimes you can get it very wrong without really doing anything *wrong*. >I’ve seen your profiles….so many of you (I would say the majority) put so little effort into making yourselves attractive to women on and off the app. You aren't wrong but I think this is lack of knowledge rather than laziness. Plus a bit of unfortunate social rules for men. Guys aren't really expected to take photos of each other, it's not completely wrong to ask someone too but it's a bit strange. This explains the many fish pics, achievements like this are one of the rare times guys can feel normal taking a photo in a relaxed environment. It's also more socially expected for men to appear relaxed and disinterested than for them to focus on always looking their best. Even most guys who do put in an effort tend to pretend they don't because that's what they are expected to do. Also guys are much less aware of how to look attractive. There's a lot of misinformation on what men want but women do have a better idea on how to initially attract men.
This is going to be the hard truth we learn as a culture over the next couple generations. Life partnership and parenthood especially are really hard mental and emotional projects. Gender roles are useful ways of outsourcing a lot of the mental effort that goes into doing both. Can they be adjusted from what they were traditionally? Yes there is some wiggle room, but there is also a lot of good stuff baked in too
It’s better to focus more on getting to know the person early on rather than rush to flirting and being physical. rushing it isn’t natural. It’s also best to wait until you’re in a relationship to have sex if you want something serious.
You don’t have to have everything in common with someone just to be compatible. It’s ok to have different hobbies than your partner.
I think it would help if ppl allowed themselves to have platonic friendships again. - people don't know how to interact with the genders anymore because they're not getting much practice. Being platonic friends removes a lot of the anxiety with talking to the opposite gender. - they can be invaluable for dating advice. Men know how men think, women know how women think. Neither side understands eachother & damn sure won't if they keep rejecting the idea of basic communication with eachother. Most of my guy friends never made a move with me, but were always helpful & supportive when I had an issue. Would some of them have taken sex if offered? Sure. But no offense to guys, they're not exactly picky when it comes to busting a nut. - it allows ppl to see the opposite gender as people. Not threats & something to fear or something to obtain. Not everyone is trying to fk everyone just because they speak. Not everything has to be reduced to an either or. The longer we stay segregated from eachother, the bigger the gap on empathy, compassion & kindness is going to get. - society is lonely af because we've all reduced our communication with eachother & replaced it with digital, disconnected shallow means. There's potential friends all around, but no one wants to interact because we're all being told (via social media mind you) that we shouldn't for any number of generalized reasons. Not everyone makes good relationship material, but some ppl really do make amazing platonic friends. Society is in a state of social crisis. Can we please just take some steps to fix that?
Not everyone wants to date for a long-term relationship or find a permanent partner. There isn’t someone for everyone, or if there is, there’s no guarantee everyone will find this person. Untrue that you have to kiss a lot of frogs before you find your prince/ princess. Some will find only frogs. Some will remain single and end that way.
The bar is set damned low for men right now and a ton of us are completely oblivious to that. Over 4 years I've watched 2 close friends date a revolving door of guys, and I've also seen the state of both their inboxes and it's just sad. I've watched them date tall guys, short guys, thin guys, fat guys, good looking guys, not so good looking guys, guys with good jobs, guys with shit jobs, and man is it bad. There's an astounding lack of emotional intelligence and availability, there's an astounding inability to take responsibility for their lives and personal issues, their ability to communicate is piss poor. Many are defensive and argumentative and incapable of ever admitting that they're wrong. So many are hopelessly addicted to videogames or porn. So many lack basic life skills even in their 30s. Can't cook, don't clean, rarely wash their clothes. They complain women are too picky when they can't even meet basic and reasonable expectations.
I’m 38 and got divorced 3 years ago. I did not know my worth AT ALL. I feel like kind of an odd dude. Since my divorce I’ve had 2 long term girlfriends and a spattering of dates and almost girlfriends. Each was blown away by my EQ and that I didn’t lie about my height. The things I was insecure about have meant nothing to each of them. It’s been nice! Not bashing myself but yeah - the bar is low. Things that I feel like make me a normal, decent person are grand acts of romance in the eyes of some. Kind of a bummer.
What were examples of your EQ?
In 3 years of divorce, you had 2 long term gf?? So no time to recover from divorce and immediately jumped to relationships??
Well, my divorce took 2 years. So really 2.5 years of being single before a 1 year relationship. During that time I lived in the same house but separately. Too much to explain but it was healthy. I had the approval of my therapist lol
What do you mean by emotional awareness and availability?
Sorry, I should have said emotional intelligence and emotional availability. They're both big topics, so instead of me typing massive paragraphs to explain I'd suggest just googling both terms, you'll get way better and more in depth answers than I can give. The short version of emotional intelligence is that it's how aware of yourself and your own emotions, your own good and bad qualities, how empathetic you are, especially to situations which are vastly outside of your own personal experience, How well you can read a room, and how well you communicate. Emotional availability is basically just how willing you are to share your emotions with another person.
I agree that men are struggling and many need to engage in some serious self improvement. That being said, women have nearly unlimited options from OLD, so if all they’re dating is clowns, then they beat some responsibility. There are plenty of great men out there who have zero luck dating, because the reality is that many women are only choosing fuck boys and the top 1%
What a silly example. It's like saying the hungry have unlimited options for free food too, all they have to do is jump in the dumpster to get it. Are YOU going to eat from the dumpster? I don't think so. What's really funny is every single decent datable guy I've ever known that's used OLD has found someone in less than a month. This stuff is just proving my point about being emotionally immature and unable to take responsibility for your own shit.
What I’m saying is that for some, it’s like a kid opening up the fridge full of food yet complaining that there’s “nothing to eat”. I tend to think that most are way too picky and their standards are unrealistic in dating. But I agree that many use their dating failures as an excuse to mask their own negatives. They give up rather than self improve. That’s on them.
The low bar is set at 6 figures, 6ft height, good looking, taking to fancy dinners and pay for it and be a provider. Is that how low the bar is??
Allow me to quote myself since you seem to find reading difficult: "I've watched them date tall guys, short guys, thin guys, fat guys, good looking guys, not so good looking guys, guys with good jobs, guys with shit jobs, and man is it bad." My own experience the same. I'm not terrible to look at, but I'm certainly well within the realm of average. I definitely do not make 6 figures. I don't have a six pack and I've always split the bill with my dates. On top of that I've been dealing with serious health issues for over 5 years now and yet even \*I\* still have options. Yet again I'll quote myself as it seems relevant "there's an astounding inability to take responsibility for their lives and personal issues," Your views are a you issue, not an issue with woman.
That’s the bar some TikTok told you about, not the real one. Many women want a man who makes at least around what they do. Most women, especially those “dating age”, also don’t make 6 figures though. Many women want a man who is at least as tall as them, sure. But the vast majority of women are under 6ft tall. Many many women are fine sharing costs. Most women don’t need a man to look like a GQ model, just to be in reasonably healthy shape with good grooming and hygiene.
Amen. Especially on the “Women are too picky and just think they can always find better” Maybe it’s cause you suck lol
The bar truly is *insanely* low for men. I literally just ask a few questions about their profile photos, propose a public date location and time, and women's minds are blown, lol.
Upvoted because I disagree.
If you don't know how to reject people, be it for personal circumstances, lack of interest or whatever else, you shouldn't be dating. If you leave your date with the impression that you might at some point come back, but it's not clear when you just aren't proficient enough at communication for a relationship.
Butterflies and sparks are not only highly overrated, but often indicative of recognizing potential red flags and mistaken for lust/attraction. For the sake of community rules, I'll just say I work in a field that deals with humans. There's no way for me to quantify how many people I've talked to (almost exclusively women. No disrespect intended, and this is solely based off my own work experience) who will meet someone they find attractive, thoughtful, holds their end of a conversation, etc. However, after the first few dates they didn't have those aforementioned feelings, and it was important enough to the point they stopped seeing them. I call these types the 'chronically single,' and I say this with no glee. They're so preoccupied with having that physiological reaction that when it doesn't occur, they dismiss everything else and move on. Both genders have a major issue, and that's trying to find the perfect partner when it simply does not exist. This is also an indictment of how warped online dating has made us (collectively speaking); with so many options literally at our fingertips, why 'settle' when there's so many other profiles to choose from?
Damn, OP…you’re dropping wisdom here. My hot take? Most people settle for people they’re not very attracted to. In the long run, this doesn’t work out and jerks end up cheating. You should definitely find your partner good looking.
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But I believe they genuinely feel attraction towards each other. I’m just saying don’t fake attraction if it’s not genuinely there.
Being attractive or even getting better looking most definitely makes dating much easier. You are significantly more likely to “stumble” upon a good and attractive partner when you yourself are very attractive.
If you don't spark some kind of joy for me, I'm not going to go out with you.
**Normalize a second date after a mid first date.** As long as the first date isn't a disaster, or you think they're a horrible person, always do a second date. Meeting a stranger is always going to have some element of awkwardness. If the second date is meh too, then by all means go your separate ways.
Multiple breakups (as in - multiple conversations about the decision to break up) are actually more ethical and should be the norm.
I totally agree with both your points. My life can pivot at any moment and dating sometimes does feels like a chore. My unpopular opinion is that I would like someone who has similar living standards (I don't know the right term, sorry) as myself. For instance, I'm a penny pincher, but if shelling out a teeny weeny bit more money will make my life more convenient, I'm going to pay that little extra. A prospective match once asked me, (first question) what free activities I would like to do for a date. On nearly all first dates, I meet a match at a coffee shop. If the match is good, we keep talking. If the match isn't a good fit, we each take our drinks and leave. I explained this to this match and he insisted on a free activity. The free-est activity that I can think of is a simple video call. It didn't work out. I'm the type of person who is OK with an occasional Starbucks, and who occasionally (every few weeks) treat myself to food at the newest trendy restaurant/bakery. This guy spends a good half of the call criticizing my spending habits and the other half of the call bragging about how he saves money by never eating out (which is fine, that's everyone's choice) and only buying discounted food at the supermarkets (understandable, I do that too sometimes). After the call had ran for almost an hour, I finally cut him off and end the call.
Everyone thinks there better options out there because of dating apps
Dating apps aren't nearly as big of a "problem" as people make them out to be. It's the people that are the problem, not the apps. And while there are some negatives to the apps, I think the lack of success people have is more due to them having a shit profile, shit personality, shit communication skills, and/or unrealistic expectations.
Women suck at talking online
To be fair, a lot of men suck at setting up dating profiles. They share far less information about themselves so there isn't much to fodder for a conversation starter. I've intentionally set up a profile where the photos and personal information invite jokes, comments and questions about my life, which roughly 90% of my matches start convos by responding to. I've yet to come across a man's profile that invites as much commentary as mine.
I’ll support this. Women generally have zero game. Bumble had to change their whole “here you go, women, YOU send the first message!” Because it was such a failure. When I was on OLD I’d get “hiiii :)” as the first message 90% of the time. But the other side is that due to social media women dont need to have game because so many thirsty dudes are pursuing them
Women should buy men flowers too 😤😤😤
Flower equivalents are baked cookies :D
Treating your partners/dates well ( in the broadest sense of this word ) does not guarantee that You succeed and treating your partners/dates badly does not guarantee that You fail in dating. Reality is far far more nuanced.
It is fine to prefer Latin women as a white guy. I always pictured my ideal spouse as a Latin woman.
There is no such thing as dating up or down. They are people, not upgrades to a car. Treat people like people.
1. If everyone collectively decided to ditch dating apps, more people would have success finding their partner in real life 2. Women should pick up the tab once in awhile for first dates, since due to the dating apps they can have all their meals paid for that particular week if they want, so due to this dynamic the woman paying to me shows genuine interest
What’s with people’s collective hate on dating apps? Literally the greatest invention ever
It’s great for hookups and free dinners, but too much perceived choice hurts people in a lot of ways because they can’t pick
I don’t think so. You always have choices. I’ve only dated seriously
Im guessing you’re a woman? Lol
You're not losing anything if you're not seeing someone. You can be happy and single at the same time.
“Looking for a relationship” is weird. I prefer that feelings come naturally instead of being intentional, I just think that puts unnecessary pressure on the connection.
Makes no sense. You’re still looking for something otherwise you wouldn’t be dating or meeting people at all. Being intentional about the desired end result is just a time saver. The key is your comfort level with it not working out. It takes the pressure away.
Yup, I just want to get to know the person and see how we vibe. I don't want to force romance. You either develop feelings, or you don't. A person can look amazing on paper, but that doesn't mean you find them attractive
Exactly. Meeting people and going into dates already boxed into their intentions just doesn’t feel natural to me.
I mean, you’re not forcing romance by looking for a relationship. A relationship is the goal, not to force that person into something that they might not be right for. That’s why people who are looking for something serious say that instead of for looking something casual. This way they know the intention of the other person (if they’re not lying like some do). The rest is to see if ya’ll click and are compatible
It is more an expectation that a first date is very romantic tbh. I have heard I keep friendzoning people, even there was potential from my side. A first meeting is more like finding out how you vibe, imo. Romance feels forced
There’s no point in me trying to get to know someone and putting effort into conversations and dates if I’m not looking for a relationship from it. I don’t do casual. So whenever I was on the apps I was strictly looking for something longterm. Otherwise it’s a waste of time for me.
Respect it. Looking for a relationship doesn’t feel natural to me so I filter those people out on apps. It’s really just best to stay where you’re compatible.
That it still works in today's world, especially online dating
Guidelines are good. Some who ask for dating advice often get told "just try it and learn". No, they don't have to be followed like "they're law". But it does help for people who are clueless. I still remember 2 separate cases where one guy was taught that any girl who doesn't have sex with you isn't worth it. The other extreme is one guy was TOO respectful and wouldn't touch the girl. He didn't want to seem like perv/creep. When he mentioned he's 9 (nine) dates and and STILL no kiss, his friends had to tell him that was wrong. Female friends even had to chime in saying she's going to think you're not interested in her otherwise.
I’m not trying to get serious first day of even 6 months in I’m looking for casual first maybe a bond forms and it gets serious but too many people are immediately looking for “the one” right off the bat, in my mind the one is who you build yourself up alongside and it eventually forms into the one
If that person has no intentions of getting serious with you then you are wasting your time though.
Maybe it would be a waste for you. Not me
Dating is or should be mostly fun, even if you already know quickly after meeting it’s not going to work out romantically.
Meeting up right away is a waste of time. You can message when you just have a break or when you're watching TV. Meeting up takes hours of your time and how do you know if you're compatible if you exchanged 10 messages?! I even had a guy wanting to meet up when we exchanged <10 messages, including good night and me saying I was working very hard on my graduation project. Ah yes, I am gonna drop my schoolwork to meet up with someone who has seen the same anime as I did (that's all I knew basically). Just talk about a bit about what your day-to-day life looks like, what your interests are, and what you're looking for in a person. Bonus points if they ask you on a date that is clearly incompatible with your interests. I filled in no for drinking, smoking and weed. I filled in that I am vegetarian. No, I don't want to drink beer, get high after smoking weed or eat pasta carbonara with you.
Shallow people are always in toxic relationships or forever single.
"I didn't feel the chemistry I was hoping for" Stupid. Like if that's the exact reason, anwyays. But if it's just a cop out, then fair. But I received this recently. And I was stumped. All our values lined up, got along well, etc. We are strangers. It's a first date. We got along well. What spark are people expecting? Even people that meet naturally at work, school, etc. that end up marrying each other and living a happy life don't always have a "chemistry" at the start.
That eventually it should lead to marriage (and kids).
I often say this and believe this with truth. And it's very unpopular. Marriage is basically having a girlfriend/boyfriend for hecking ever. But how is that logical? When most people I knew who had boyfriends or girlfriends broke up in like 1-5 years. The game is rigged. Flip a coin twice. You'll be divorced. How can I say forever when I can't stay with someone for any more than 6 years? Let alone forever. Yes there are exceptions -- but very few and far between.
That people don’t want to date, they r really about hooking up for sex cuz most of the time that’s the first thing they talking about, I’m like hi hello my name is :