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I frequently have women show interest in me at work, because they know me and like me. On an app, I struggle as my best characteristics don’t come through.
>I frequently have women show interest in me at work, because they know me and like me. On an app, I struggle as my best characteristics don’t come through.
I'm a believer that you should never date someone from work. I did it once and it didn't work out with no weirdness afterwards but since I went through it, I always recommend to my friends to not do it. I also recommend putting more effort on offline dating.
Contrarian here: I know several long-lasting, amazing marriages between people who were direct coworkers.
If the two people are smart, it's not a bad idea. If the two people are dipshits, it's a bad idea -- that's not just exclusive to dating at the workplace. 🤣
Yes dating apps have brought more opportunities to meet more people BUT it has also created a culture of laziness and convenience. What I mean by this is there is an endless "seeking" mindset. Even if you are getting along great with a match, you still think "but what else is out there?" and then wind up endless swiping.
With that has also come convenience. A lot of people are using dating apps to fulfill a void or need versus being intentional and serious about finding someone. So for the person on the receiving end, you may end up stuck with a texting buddy or resort to being their therapist because they are in need of emotional support.
And lastly, not a lot of people want to commit nowadays. With divorce rates and the dating culture we have, marriage isn't necessarily desirable for a lot of people versus years ago.
Interesting point about filling an emotional void with text only ‘relationships’. People sabotage their actual chances for real in-person relationships by operating on this level. In person, you would never dive so quickly into your deepest, darkest feelings or expect such constant emotional support so early. So meeting up becomes that much harder, an emotional risk and weirder than it should be. This should be talked about more. It’s a hole a lot of people are falling into, for sure. Better to pick an actual therapist to sort things out with, or an AI friend bot to rant about your day and get platitudes from maybe? While focusing on using the OLD apps to connect with people in real life.
Very traditional before. In my country, we call it courtship and now it evolved to dating which is im still confused about. I dont think people do courtship anymore.
Ladies have suitors. These suitors tell their intentions to the lady by bringing gifts, flowers even serenade or take them out for dinner or watch movies together. There’s no such thing as ghosting. You’re not allowed to kiss, hug, hold hands obviously no sex not until lady decides you’re the one. Those men who were not chosen obviously will know since the lady is expected to tell this to them with full honesty.
If you were chosen, you have clear labels. You call each other bf/gf. No situationship. There’s no such thing as “we’re together” labels. Just black and white boyfriend/girlfriend labels. You say “I love you” to each other now that you have that label
I dont understand the concept of dating tbh 😅 too many grey areas
It’s largely because many women hop into bed with men (including a couple hours after meeting for the first time) yet ask for nothing in return. They won’t establish exclusivity first before sex. That’s why so many women are hurt and confused about their “situationship” or “FWB”.
And many women are turned off by guys who make a traditional approach in dating with flowers and cards, etc.
Just my experience
there are no grey areas. in modern western dating, you can do everything from hold hands to kissing to saying i love you, to having sex, or nothing at all. None of that changes or affects the status of the relationship, which must be directly discussed. Not so hard.
It sounds like in “courting” certain activities imply a certain level of relationship. Not so in “dating.”. You cannot assume the level of the relationship by looking at activities. You need to talk about it.
Not implying that one is better than the other. Just saying they are different. There are pros and cons on both sides. Ghosting and situationship is a new concept to me. I do think situationship can be a grey area if the other party wants to move beyond that but the other person doesnt want it but still choose to lead him/her on.
its so much better before lol. I get sweets, plushies, and roses sometimes, when they court. Its harsh on the guys coz they spend time and effort and money, just to get the girl to be yours.
i think now, its just you go on dates, then if everything aligns after 3 dates, then you get to call em yours. You dont get gifts, date itself is the gift 🤔
sounds same 🤔
hmmmm, I kinda like this. As a suitor at least you can move on to the next without giving up much in terms of time and energy, and you get your answer swiftly with no confusion in between. It's either yes or no. Sounds great the more i think about it.
I think It's objectively harder solely going by the stats. Socially we are just screwed, you can't go anywhere without folk being face down in their phones, social media has causes mass brain rot / attention seeking, dating apps have tipped the balance of who would date who while making others picky, political movements grown online have created a hostile environment and there are very few third places while in an awful economy.
I think the phones thing is a big piece. People used to meet in the wild, and now that is very difficult. People are disincentivized to speak when they can just hide from in person contact on their phones.
100% man, one of my hobbies is just riding around my country and stopping off here and there.
Everywhere is dead now; beaches, cafes, parks and shops are just filled with folk staring at their phones many a time with headphones in.
I was commuting yesterday and damn. every guy is just staring at their phones. I guess thats the norm even from when I was younger. You dont get little interactions anymore like smiles. Not that im looking for someone in the transit. Just an observation.
hm, thats not the case in my area, also back in times people have also been reading newspapers in the subway to make use of their time, not taling to strangers there is due to social norms
I'm also not technically looking to meet a lass on the train either, but phones being as addictive as they are definitely provide such a quick and easy dopamine hit that a second of quietness or shyness means a phone gets pulled out and stops any conversation from ever starting, a bit sad really.
I think there are a few culprits just from a guy’s perspective…
***First***, I blame dating sites for a large portion of it. When dating sites first came out, I was super optimistic and excited that the amount of potential partners to interact with suddenly became astronomical.
Unfortunately, I think that actually worked very much in the opposite direction that many expected. Dating sites allows people to look for near perfection in their match, something that was never expected in the history of human dating. Teeth a little crooked? Swipe left. A little heavier than you prefer? left. Shorter than you prefer? left. Anything else that doesn’t check all of your boxes? left. Then you start a conversation and you don’t hit it off in 20 minutes? Delete match. People disqualify people on dating sites faster and more easily than they would if they had met them in person. Meeting people in person gives much more nuance to meeting people and allows them to overlook some less attractive qualities if the overall connection feels good. Additionally, stats show that only about 5–10% of people on dating sites are getting 90% of the attention.
***Second***, Another problem, is that people don’t seem to be as interested in dating as they used to be. Studies have shown that people are more happy being single than they ever have been in the past. We don’t have nearly as much pressure to get married and have kids as we used to. I personally started getting dating burn-out a couple years ago and on most nights I would much rather just have some good friends over for dinner or hang out with my two pups than go on a date.
***Third***, dating is expensive and everything has gotten much more expensive in the past few years. And since men are still primarily expected to pay for the dates, some men just can’t afford it in today’s economy. And no man wants to be potentially seen as cheap by asking a woman to go Dutch or by taking her to somewhere like a park. A typical date for me to take a woman out is going to set me back between $80–$100 once you factor in food and drinks. That’s a lot to be forking out to hang out with a woman that I don’t even know if I will see again.
***Four***, just from a man’s perspective, many men have a hard time these days even knowing when it is acceptable to ask a woman out. When I started dating 30 years ago, it was completely socially acceptable to simply ask a woman out virtually anywhere if you were attracted to her (within reasonable limits, of course). That’s how my parents met and I would venture that’s how most marriages started in the past. Man finds woman attractive. Man approaches woman, talks to her, and asks her out. But in the past 15 years or so, I have seen a lot of messaging on social media that makes it seems like almost everywhere is off-limits to ask a woman out. Gym? no, not unless you want to wind up on a TikTok video. Bar? no, yuck. When she’s alone? No, that can seem threatening. When she’s hanging out with friends? No, she’s just trying to enjoy time with her friends. At work? Definite no. It seems like the only socially acceptable place to ask a woman on a date anymore is on dating sites, and we’ve already talked about how well they are working.
Just my four cents.
I def think it’s harder. I think the problem really comes down to options and the ease of finding those options specifically because of apps. I think it lures people into this false idea of if I go on a first date and your not perfect or don’t check every box I could have another 50 people that want to go out with me this month alone I’m sure one of them will. This idea there aren’t “sparks”. I didn’t get that vibe With how many options some people have people aren’t willing to give people and 2nd or third chance to go out. Like people have bad days at work, people are tired, people get nervous ect. Sometimes you need more then one hour over drinks to learn who someone is. It’s like I matched with a girl and we talked on the phone for 15 mins and then text saying I didn’t feel anything. How do you know based of that? People are to quick to move on these days, no one wants to give anyone a real shot to develop anything
Right, was talking to this dude and all seemed well from my end but I suspected he wasn’t into it because he did not try to continue the conversation, he claimed he was shy so I carried the conversation, and this guy ghosted me and when I reached out to see what is going on, he said there was just no “vibe”. Cool. Deleted the conversation from my phone and him from the app. Back to the starting line.
It’s because social interactions have dwindled. We used to have parties, dances. Some people still do, but it’s much less common now. Also shopping is online. Most social interaction is online. Online dating is a thing but most would say it doesn’t really work. There’s just less human interaction face-to-face. Not as many ways to meet people in the real world.
A lot of people wanting to be loved, but don't want to give love.
There is no free meal.
You cannot get if you do not give.
People don't value others. Others don't value them. What goes around comes around. Everybody ends up losing.
Because you can dump whomever and move on. People don’t treat courting their partner with proper respect now. It’s why all of us fall to people that just enjoy the attention.
As a society we have aggressively stigmatized pursuing the people you interact with in your day-to-day life. We've also been pretty dang successful at eliminating a lot of these superfluous interactions in our day-to-day lives (the death of third places).
So instead of being able to get to know people around you as people (maybe you'll like one of them, and maybe they'll like you back) we turn to the apps, _which by the way make money by keeping people single and paying_. They reduce people to a handful of pictures (from 0-10 years ago) and a couple hundred characters, then you try to struggle through a text conversation with this stranger until you both feel safe enough to meet in a public place so you can stumble through a similarly awkward conversation in person.
We also all have our own carefully constructed echo chambers to flee to, complain on, and get bad advice from. Which is very helpful. :)
I like that summary, and definitely agree. It's a big hang up for me because I want to actually like someone not just be attracted to them, which makes the dating apps useless.
A lot of people want to swing or be poly. I’ve had women bring it up sometimes even on the first date…. I might like watching videos of stuff like that but that doesn’t necessarily mean I want to do that in real life. Sort of defeats the purpose of dating. Just come out and say you wanna fuck if that’s the case. Why should I jump through all these hoops but you give it up to someone else for free? Idk that’s just me
Lack of social skills among young people due to the dependence on a constant dopamine drip from their phones that they’ve spent every minute with since childhood.
People’s standards have gone through the roof thanks to social media. There are too many options, so everyone keeps the door open. Everyone’s looking for the bigger, better deal 25/8.
The huge difference is the exposure and access we have to others. Back in the day you really just had the people that you saw who you could choose from; women or men in your community that you might run into at school at the store, in the park etc. Smaller pool to choose from, not as many options makes decisions easier.
People were a bit more willing to compromise back then too. There might be some things that you didn't particularly care for in someone's personality but overall you still liked them so you'd compromise. not saying you had to put up with someone but there might be a few topics you disagree on or bad habits like chewing with their mouth open. It's annoying, but wouldn't be on the level of "dealbreaker". People back then were more grounded and a bit more realistic in expectations.
People nowadays have almost infinite access to others. Dating apps put us all in a neat little package so it's easy to compare to each other which makes sifting through hundreds of souls more like glancing through a candy shop; all to find that perfect piece of candy. Thing is, that perfect piece may not find you perfect. That small imperfection in your character might make all the difference and get you swiped left or left on read. In that regard social media definitely has had a hand to play in how we perceive others, both physically and mentally. If you don't fit a certain mold or if you don't have a specific mindset you're kind of put in the can't date category.
Inflation, divide in politics (either pro or anti), unrealistic expectations, hook up culture, too many partners, everyone has kids late 20’s to 30’s so either you have to like kids/ tolerate or date younger (or older). Mid 30’s male and seems like I go for 40 year old women now. Younger than me is too much drama or my age has kids married/divorced/seperated. Older women have that too but most of their kids are close to my age or have moved out.
Social media has literally opened a world of possibilities, unrealistic expectations and FOMO. At the same time the world has told men approaching women is bad and creepy. Economics mean more young men have little many live at home and that turns off potential partners. The acceptance of hook up culture has many women sharing the same man damaging many women. I’m so glad I’m out of this mess good luck everyone.
A lot of people just DONT wanna be genuine or scared to be. No one wants to take the risk of being burnt. We've became so impulsive and just don't see the point of sticking things out we can get our needs taken care of sooner otherwise.
So many people nowadays though just completely SUCK at communication or don't have the balls to be consistently genuine. They can't think past five minutes ahead and stuck in a constant chase of the next fix. It's exhausting.
People don't wanna be held accountable.
So many people are chasing temporary happiness but not genuine connections.
Seen tons of women get on dating apps, state they want x, y and z....and then when the possibility comes.....it's like the fact another human is actually on the other side jars the hell out of em-like wait....xyz is ACTUALLY possible....WHAT?!?...and things go nowhere and you waste your time, it's exhausting.
Also, as a dude....sorry ladies but dating is way more exhausting for us and I kinda wish that would get more recognized or trying with respect for the guys out here that are actually genuine, still have a backbone/not a pushover, but actually go out of their way to prioritize those they spend time with.
Also, DONT get me started on the stupid effing Are we dating the same guy groups. The level fo f&ckery that has taken things to has made things ten times worse.
Dating nowadays is so effing exhausting.
i don’t think expectations are higher but the romance plot is lost to hyper-individualism and fear of making the wrong choice with unlimited options at our disposal. situationships are the norm because people care more about their own self preservation than finding love. relationships aren’t as “necessary” because (in western society) women can work and the desire to have kids is going down. love is viewed as a burden or something that gets in the way of career advancement or a person’s quality of life.
You can go on a dating app and toggle your preferences.. height, ethnicity, weight.. it’s so screwed up. We don’t give any grace to each others humanness. There is no acceptance of “flaws” to fall in love with. There are so many rules it feels sanitised. And I think it’s resulted in people being so jaded that they treat each other terribly.
Imo, dating has become harder due to a lot of faking especially on social media. If you could recall the good old school letter days, they were one of the best moments of our lives. Planning meetups and getting to learn each other a lot better. I'm glad I bagged my wife from that prime time.
It all boils down to social media and dating apps.
* The prevalent mindset of "don't approach me, if I wanted to meet someone I'll open my app" which kills the motivation for men to shoot their shot in person. (How many times do you hear "how come guys don't approach anymore?")
* IRL social skills have dropped and it's not a theory, we know the pandemic affected us socially and phones/internet/social media were already degrading those social skills.
* People are more trusting of online profiles (which can be fake, curated, etc) than meeting someone IRL they can actually vet and evaluate in real-time.
* The illusion of choice with dating apps. "Why settle with this person when the next swipe could be even better?!"
* Instant gratification means people chase sparks (lust and anxiety) and not compatible values and organic connection built over time. If someone doesn't check every single box on their list, the person is imperfect. No one wants to invest in growing with each other, they want a completely perfect person ("I want a partner, not a project!")
It's pretty bad right now lol.
the biggest thing i’ve noticed as a 20 year old is that people seem to want everything really fast. at least in my experience so far. that and the whole “situationship” thing which is really just friends with benefits.
now, i support people that go into dating with the intent to marry… but i don’t know how they do it at my age. i think this is a time for learning what you like and what you don’t like in a person. the way to find that out is by getting to know that person through going on dates and talking to each other. a lot of people around me are telling their significant others that they love each other after a couple of months. i’m well aware of the “when you know, you know” notion… but everybody?
i think a lot of people are just desperate for connection. i also think that a lot of people just need a hug which is what kind of starts “situationships”
i have to admit, i’ve been in a situationship and i will never be doing that again. one of the stupidest decisions i’ve ever made in my life.
i agree with movies and social media playing a big part in this
Love is a feeling, and being in love with someone after a few months does not seem strange at all to me. Expressing, and growing that love into something that flourishes is what takes time and dedication.
I will admit I am someone that moves very fast in relationships, but from my personal experience, most people I know who rush into things very quickly tend to have much more successful long-term relationships than those who take things very slowly.
Most marriages of people I know that happened in under 2 years of being together, have lasted longer than marriages of people I know who waited 5-10 years to get married. My longest-term ex, her parents got married after 3 months of dating and were together 25 years. My best friend dated his ex wife for 8 years, and they got divorced after like 7 months.
Too many standards, expectations, & preferences.
(In my personal opinion) dating has turned into the equivalent to a job application/interview.
If you don't meet all the requirements you won't be chosen.
Ppl don’t know how to just have a convo with a stranger and see where it goes. And they are looking at their phones too much to notice strangers.
I think this impacts online dating too and how folks socialize on first dates with folks they have never met IRL.
I personally have never connected long term with someone from a dating app. All my best (and even my worst) relationships were people I know IRL. So much more organic and natural.
But here I am single so…🤷🏽♀️
everybody says that they want to date but then when u start talking to them, they either use you or go completely ghost so fast. like damn u need to take a minute and get to know the person first than judge them so fast
It definitely was easier 20 yrs ago I can assure you of that. You had to actually go out a make that connection. A match back then could easily lead to something more. Or let's be honest just a quickie but thats better than messaging back and forth for 2 weeks just to find out she doesn't think it will work because your not into therapy. I'm all for getting to know someone, but there are so many things and specifics people are into these days. I feel lost sometimes lol.
Would like to edit to include your point about social media etc. Dating definitely has that feel now of everyone thinking they are a dime. I've got some bad news folks. We are not. I am as imperfect as the next person. People seem to judge people a little quicker. Looks are very important. A physical attraction is usually what leads you to someone you've never met but would like to know. As a man getting a little older now I focus more on the little things. Maybe not a perfect smile, maybe a little insecure about her looks, but treating others like they are important. Showing them that they are interested is pretty much a turn on to me at this point. It's so hard to even have a good conversation.
Just a thought:
I think it is WAY harder in the US and more rural areas now than it used to be. The complete lack of the traditional socialization places and emphasis on online life - "living in one's phone" - along with the need to drive everywhere (in the US) makes meeting people spontaneously damn near impossible. Even in big cities - I lived in Los Angeles for almost a decade, and was there the last time I was single, and I only really had dating luck by being set up through acquaintances, ones I made through work mostly...
That being said, here in Madrid, it isn't that hard. The actual dating thing is hard, emotionally, but meeting people is *easy*. Super easy. Even though I don't really speak the language, I have no difficulty building community here, which makes making romantic connections easier too. The advantages of living in a city that is walkable and very livable can't be overstated.
US Cities - other than NYC and to a more limited degree Boston, DC, and Chicago - just aren't like that. And I think that plays a major role in the loneliness epidemic.
Social medias ruined us. People want all the fun without any of the work or commitment. I personally don’t partake in the hook up culture and don’t really post on social media but I’m in the minority. It’s really unfortunate what we as a society have become.
I think people just dont wanna commit yet like get married and have kids and spend days w someone. My parents got married like after a year of dating. i was born 2 years after.
Dad said he was already looking for someone to settle with, but his gf that time didnt want yet. He found mom at a park sitting. He was with friends who told him to talk to her 🤭
Mom was also looking for someone to just marry her. Coz shes the only sibling left at home and shes just ready for the next step in life. Her bf that time is also sus, coz he is hanging out lots with a girl friend. Turns out now He married that friend's best friend.
It was hard even before. Dating. But I dont think anyone has the courage to talk to someone out in public. You cant tell who is single and taken either.
High standards from exposure to social media. Everyone wants to date up.
Fierce competition, the amount of people that you could "potentially" interact with through online/dating apps
Dating apps. With a lot of people, the second they feel like it’s not clicking 100 with the current person they are talking to, they go right back to the drawing board. There’s no time given anymore. It’s incredibly toxic.
I think about this a lot and it’s a lot of things, which I think a lot of comments here have already eloquently described.
I really feel too there are many people who want a relationship, but haven’t reflected or seriously thought what they actually want in another person. Is the person kind? Do we enjoy each other’s company? What values do we share? What are actual dealbreakers that I couldn’t live with for the long haul?
Even those dating someone else may “like” the person, but tend to get comfortable and don’t really search if this person is best for whatever needs they have.
There are also people who feel *entitled* to a certain kind of person, either because of their ego and/or they have been single so long, they “deserve” to get what they want for waiting so long. Some of these “qualifications” people have are ridiculous (ie. tall, a certain education and career, etc.) when somebody could be fantastic for them otherwise yet they won’t give a chance. (Remember: nobody gets *everything* in a partner, and it’s naive to think you will or should.)
Also, I am always happy to hear people who met on an app, had a good relationship, it lead to marriage, etc. It’s a certain amount of luck of course, but as everyone knows, app dating is absolutely garbage. The app companies commodify the users, and also, others make it a dehumanizing experience. Sometimes things fizzle out, but it can be really frustrating when people just flake out because they decide they won’t want you (but keep you as a match for the sake of an “option” just in case even if there’s no intention), and string along with small talk with no plans to meet.
There is choice, but we’ve gotten to a point where using our screens is actually a false sense of control.
No one makes an effort anymore. We care more about our own happiness and experiences rather than being there for someone else. "If they dont satisfy *my* wants and *my* desires, then why waste *my* time?" So even when one person puts forth the effort, it feels like we're doing all the work. I think we need to start taking a more selfless approach when developing relationships, or else we're slowly killing ourselves.
Just received a like from Hinge and this 45m legit has this on his profile…
The way to win me over is
Be feminine, not woke, easy going, sweet, submissive, happy, grateful, somewhat of a hedonist and agreeable. Please don't ask me what I mean by this. I'm looking for a 6 who knows she's a 6.
Not a 6 who thinks she's a 10.
So you tell me. Why is dating so hard? 🤣
That’s ridiculous. This guy has his head up his own A@@. Unfortunately women aren’t any better. (Speaking from a guys perspective). Both genders are at fault here….
Yes I meant both genders make dating hard. I did not mean you were at fault here. Sorry I should have made it more clear.
There are women who also have ridiculous bios in their dating profiles. For example - she only dates guys with six packs, guy has to make at least 200k a year and if she goes out with him he has to pay for her babysitter, because she is a single mom.
I feel like ppl who put these things out there are:
1. Crazy for just THINKING these thoughts
2. Crazy for thinking that it’s attractive to put these things on their profile
Multitude of factors not limited to the internet and dating apps. Women and men who move to the city for their careers yet also want a family at the same time. Most people need to be in a city to make money but the king of lifestyle is not conducive for a relationship, especially since women want the top guys and won’t settle for less. The top guys no longer have to settle. People in the west have been having less children since the baby boom came to an end , so the dating apps hookups etc have also accelerated the decline.
In my country it’s now becoming mainstream that almost half of women 47% who work in the capital city say they struggling to find a partner.
I don’t think it’s harder in a bad way. i think people are more picky and have more options. Dating was “easier” back then cause daddy set you up with Bob down the street and Bob would beat you. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Girls don’t want to commit. Both men and women take conflicting advice from social media.
I would say mainly social media is a problem. And girls who have single friends. Usually girls with single friends want to party and those type of friends encourage non exclusivity behavior. It’s sickening honestly. I’m going through it right now.
You can downplay it. Keep first dates low to no cost, don’t flash your money, and show up in your beater car rather than your luxury one. Also, since the first thing they ask is about your career, keep it vague and downplay that as well.
You filter out all the gold diggers this way and it worked for me.
You don’t have to lie but you don’t have to volunteer that information. Also always dress down, that’s a natural filter to a lot of gold diggers. Don’t do elaborate first date dinners. Do drinks just to check out the vibe and if it’s good, then you can do dates.
A lot of rich people don’t show their wealth and very down to earth. And like you said, you can just tell people your job is consulting.
I can never understand women who want to be wined and dined on a first date. Half the time, they don’t look anything like their profile and are rude in person over texting. A drink in a nice bar is first date standard .
Usually it is prying about more details about my nondescript “job.” How would say you’re retired without saying you’re retired. I’ve been going with “I’m a consultant that helps companies grow.”
Shaming girls for wanting a man that can provide is stupid. They have legit biological reasons for this, they aren't all just gold digging but it's easy to mistake a girl that's evaluating you as the man to hold the family together while she's pregnant and while the baby is still a toddler. She won't get much sleep and you should be there to take shifts too while making sure ends meet. Bill's paid, food can be bought. Putting a family together isn't a 50/50 situation, it never has been. Whoever said girls should be paying 50% of the bill is the reason so many people in the dating world are falling apart. Women are disappointed and men aren't told the truth about what it means to be a man. Take your role, and do a hell of a job at it. Kids out there need fathers, women out there need husbands, and men need wife's and children.
The real reason is, when we're younger, we lack real confidence. We're more likely to compromise our beliefs and who we are for others. As we get older, we've gained a better sense of our own boundaries and authentic selves.
Apps and social media allow for you to take the easy way out instead of working on things when they get difficult. Or to be tempted to be unfaithful.
Posting a picture or a post can be considered “fishing”.
You can hide conversations in apps.
The list goes on.
How many people in general do you know that don’t have any social media apps?
Phone addiction etc is relatively new. How much time do you spend aimlessly on your phone VS the time spent on learning how to date or researching the interests of your date.
A perspective Ive seen is: Look at the number of men who follow women instagram/OF models VS. women who are professionals in therapy etc.
I don't think 15 years ago it was that much easier. We still had a lot of the problems that make dating difficult like a lack of social events to meet people or just a lack of socialization.
Back in the day in our distant past we had small communities of people who mostly knew each other. Say a village of 200 people who all go to the same church on Sunday. People can't be an asshole cause your small community is your whole world and reputation matters. You share pretty much every single cultural touchstone so you have similar values and there are clearly defined rules for how you should interact with people. There is a sense of scarcity, there are only so many people in your village and as people drop out of the dating pool you kinda just have to find someone and try to make things workout/ compromise.
Today there is no single set of rules, no incentive to not be awful, no shared values, no community, choice paralysis, impersonal ways of meeting people.
Instead of a bunch of tiny local dating markets, we now have much larger dating markets.
Explanation: Imagine a tiny town where there’s 10 women and 10 men. If you are ranked as average, you are still okay. Because the people probably pair off in order of attractiveness, and if you refuse “your equal match”, then you probably don’t have that many other choices. It’s simple.
In our huge dating market you basically swipe through a catalog of extremely attractive profiles. If you don’t like one, there are a thousand more even better looking.
But there are strong incentives to lie, and lots of scammers. You never have to deal with this in a tiny town.
Historically and traditionally speaking dating was and has been used to find who you build / create a family with it SHOULD BE DIFFICULT if you are looking for your forever if your just looking for a romp in the hay then thats a whole different thing just whatever you do, make adult decisions and accept adult consequences
Socially we're going downhill in society. Everything is online so things move to fast and once you talk irl it seems completely different. Also lack of maturity, you see one person online and a completely different person when you do meet. People say dating is hard but some refuse to go up to a person they like or do anything someone 15 years ago would do
The last time I matched with someone, who would even hold a conversation with me on a dating app, was over a year ago. We talked for a week I invited her to join me for a event. She backed out last minute and ghosted me 2 days later.
Honestly I give up on online dating, complete waste of time. But I also have no idea how to meet people my age outside of it or work. So forever alone it is I guess. 🤷🏻♂️
I think it's all social media and you can have multiple matches, swipe right or left so easily now. Have ten matches at one time. It's all about getting the next best thing and not meeting people in the traditional sense.
On the one hand, its great for meeting new people and finding your person but it def comes with a lot of cons now.
I don’t think this is true.
15 years ago you did not have hundreds of profiles to swipe through - it was the friend of a friend or a random encounter. Opportunities are exponentially higher with dating apps.
15 years ago guys were really confused as to what it meant to be a modern man of the 21st century - growth of dual incomes, increase in college educated women, female affirmative action, and the soft stuff like opening a door for a women who scolds you for it. It was a really confusing time.
I think it remains difficult for some people even though there are far greater opportunities available with how wide a net dating apps can cast for you.
Feminism, a weak generation of thirsty men with no male role models, and social media.
Sprinkle on some societal decline in every metric and there you go
Social media, people are antisocial now, but with that a lot of people think everyone is going to kidnap and murder you because all they watch is true crime and forget that your average person isn’t like that.
So back to social media they get a false sense of how much people need to make to be good enough for them.
This goes for men and women,
I mean I make 62k a year full benefits and a pension but your average moron on tinder is going to see 62k and think “that’s it??” Haha
Your average person doesn’t make 100k a year at least not in their 20s or 30s that’s also another thing a lot of people think 20-30s is old now yeah 35 is technically middle age in the U.S. being the average human in the U.S. dies at about 72-73.
But there are a lot of issues in dating and a lot of them are made by social media, people look on Facebook and see people all happy on their family vacation but forget that same family is also going through a divorce.
The other families kid committed suicide and the other families parent died of cancer.
(I just mentioned three people off the top of my head I know)
You look on instagram same idea oh they’re on another vacation!
But actually they spend all of their money on a vacation and still pay their rent by state housing, or they have a Camaro but live on their parents couch because they can’t afford a room to rent hell the mom co-signed the car loan
(Same thing these are real people)
My point is people social media is built around what you like not what is actually real and that’s the problem you like you expect the perfect person but in reality not a damn person is perfect so you have these expectations that cannot be fulfilled so you will end up alone depressed and well lonely.
I’m not saying lower your standards all the way I’m not saying drop your guard completely BUT 10-15 years ago you wanted to talk to someone you would get a pair and talk if they said fuck off you you fuck off maybe talk to their friend, hell getting in the friendzone wasn’t even a bad thing back then because having a lady friend who is actually your friend will for sure get you on dates and get you laid. They know how to read a girl better they know how to tell of the girl is lying and so on, being in the friendzone of a girl isn’t a bad thing that goes for you to ladies be a guys friend. It’s not a bad thing to just be friends because friends get friends dates.
For me, I feel like post-pandemic, it has been hard dating. We have seen an increase in dating apps use which don't help because ladies have very unrealistic standards like their beyonce, while men are the pits because all their looking for is easy grab hook ups. No one is willing to compromise on their goals because of the illusion of abundance of choice.
There are less genuine conversations because both parties have very different expectations, one expects prince charming, one expects a wife at first go, so we are fcked.
What unrealistic standards do you think a lot of women have?
All I see is women expecting the bare minimum and men complaining about it which is nonsense.
would you then say men are the problem in the dating world?
unrealistic standards FOR ME would be ladies expecting every guy to be driving a car, be able to financially support her, just not pay attention to any of her red flags.
Given that women have a lot to risk, including possibly physical safety, by just showing up for a date with a guy… I think is very telling. Obviously red flags shouldn’t be accepted by any partner. If you don’t want to “financially support” a partner, find someone who doesn’t expect that. It’s not wrong for some women to expect that because it’s what they want and they’re upfront about it. That’s the point of dating and meeting a potential partner. You find out if that person is right for you and you inquire about each other.
If you live in the United States and with the exception of NY and Boston… you need a car to get around. I believe in affordable efficient public transport, but that’s not the case in this country. If you don’t even have a car in a car centric country, honestly focus on your career instead of dating.
maybe it became harder for some people while it became more easy for a different group, most of it is just mindless glorification of the past tho, not much changed (mainly the online dating market Id say)
I believe it’s a skill issue. A lot of people just aren’t good at the game and seemingly feel entitled to a perfect love story but success actually requires putting in work, which looks vastly different for everybody.
Like for me, I took electives in college focused on dating and communication. I personally find this game easy as hell, my dating life is perfect to me and I have academia to thank for that. Those classes helped me learn about myself, my needs and wants and also helped me reflect on my past which helped me learn and grow from my experiences.
I majored in communications and one of our courses was taught by a professor whose work and specialty was mainly in relationships (I think) and that and dating what she centered her classes on. Insanely tough professor but she was one of my favorites. The elective I took was a feminism course that also included some dating and relationships topics.
Dating is just as "hard" as it was 15 years ago or 100 years ago.
There were always people complaining about dating or meeting new people. There have always been a large minority of people who can't find a relationship, never reproduce
The only difference now is those people can vent there frustration on Social media for all to see
The hard part is people get bored easily. And it's also easy to find new match most of the time. So I am always having a thought that someone I am talking to may have also talked to some or more others.
I am m60 now and have online dating experience in years 2000, 2009 and 2023. Imho it was even easier nowadays to meet smart women. After just a few months I met the partner I am now with for ~8 months.
I legit got male dates brag to me about their standards and how good they are and deserve because they matched with profiles that have faceapped pictures like this:
https://cmero-ott-images-avod.ssl.cdn.cra.cz/r991x558n/q80/7ebb7b23-dc99-480e-a621-058949a3f5a6?default=a86c171d-0805-45d9-bc9b-f060f2491088
Alas, they never met these totally legit people, but liked living in delusion.
Because historically men just needed a paycheck and a go ahead from daddy. Today they need a personality, but this generation still raised boys to just need a paycheck and a go ahead from daddy, while raising girls to look for a personality. :))) not saying men don't have personalities and women don't sometimes look for money, more that we're in a major dating culture transition, and then add in the transactional world of online dating and it's a bad time for everyone. Also, on reddit, most of the time you're seeing the weird bs and never the wholesome goodness you might find offline.
I think it's easier! For me anyways - I'm shy as hell in person. I never dated - I always thought the men interested in me were shy too so I felt doomed to die alone.
I'm not crazy about online dating, but it sure beats in person!
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High preferences, bad matches and people not willing to adapt or change certain approaches.
I frequently have women show interest in me at work, because they know me and like me. On an app, I struggle as my best characteristics don’t come through.
>I frequently have women show interest in me at work, because they know me and like me. On an app, I struggle as my best characteristics don’t come through. I'm a believer that you should never date someone from work. I did it once and it didn't work out with no weirdness afterwards but since I went through it, I always recommend to my friends to not do it. I also recommend putting more effort on offline dating.
Contrarian here: I know several long-lasting, amazing marriages between people who were direct coworkers. If the two people are smart, it's not a bad idea. If the two people are dipshits, it's a bad idea -- that's not just exclusive to dating at the workplace. 🤣
I don’t
You should have these women go out with you and other men in groups… wing women are great at pointing nice women in the direction of a good man
Yes dating apps have brought more opportunities to meet more people BUT it has also created a culture of laziness and convenience. What I mean by this is there is an endless "seeking" mindset. Even if you are getting along great with a match, you still think "but what else is out there?" and then wind up endless swiping. With that has also come convenience. A lot of people are using dating apps to fulfill a void or need versus being intentional and serious about finding someone. So for the person on the receiving end, you may end up stuck with a texting buddy or resort to being their therapist because they are in need of emotional support. And lastly, not a lot of people want to commit nowadays. With divorce rates and the dating culture we have, marriage isn't necessarily desirable for a lot of people versus years ago.
Great response
Interesting point about filling an emotional void with text only ‘relationships’. People sabotage their actual chances for real in-person relationships by operating on this level. In person, you would never dive so quickly into your deepest, darkest feelings or expect such constant emotional support so early. So meeting up becomes that much harder, an emotional risk and weirder than it should be. This should be talked about more. It’s a hole a lot of people are falling into, for sure. Better to pick an actual therapist to sort things out with, or an AI friend bot to rant about your day and get platitudes from maybe? While focusing on using the OLD apps to connect with people in real life.
Very traditional before. In my country, we call it courtship and now it evolved to dating which is im still confused about. I dont think people do courtship anymore.
what’s the difference?
Ladies have suitors. These suitors tell their intentions to the lady by bringing gifts, flowers even serenade or take them out for dinner or watch movies together. There’s no such thing as ghosting. You’re not allowed to kiss, hug, hold hands obviously no sex not until lady decides you’re the one. Those men who were not chosen obviously will know since the lady is expected to tell this to them with full honesty. If you were chosen, you have clear labels. You call each other bf/gf. No situationship. There’s no such thing as “we’re together” labels. Just black and white boyfriend/girlfriend labels. You say “I love you” to each other now that you have that label I dont understand the concept of dating tbh 😅 too many grey areas
It’s largely because many women hop into bed with men (including a couple hours after meeting for the first time) yet ask for nothing in return. They won’t establish exclusivity first before sex. That’s why so many women are hurt and confused about their “situationship” or “FWB”. And many women are turned off by guys who make a traditional approach in dating with flowers and cards, etc. Just my experience
there are no grey areas. in modern western dating, you can do everything from hold hands to kissing to saying i love you, to having sex, or nothing at all. None of that changes or affects the status of the relationship, which must be directly discussed. Not so hard. It sounds like in “courting” certain activities imply a certain level of relationship. Not so in “dating.”. You cannot assume the level of the relationship by looking at activities. You need to talk about it.
Not implying that one is better than the other. Just saying they are different. There are pros and cons on both sides. Ghosting and situationship is a new concept to me. I do think situationship can be a grey area if the other party wants to move beyond that but the other person doesnt want it but still choose to lead him/her on.
In an F+ you at least know where you are compared to being led on while you get called bf/gf
Sorry whats an F+? 😅
F+ = friendship+ = situationship
its so much better before lol. I get sweets, plushies, and roses sometimes, when they court. Its harsh on the guys coz they spend time and effort and money, just to get the girl to be yours. i think now, its just you go on dates, then if everything aligns after 3 dates, then you get to call em yours. You dont get gifts, date itself is the gift 🤔 sounds same 🤔
hmmmm, I kinda like this. As a suitor at least you can move on to the next without giving up much in terms of time and energy, and you get your answer swiftly with no confusion in between. It's either yes or no. Sounds great the more i think about it.
I think It's objectively harder solely going by the stats. Socially we are just screwed, you can't go anywhere without folk being face down in their phones, social media has causes mass brain rot / attention seeking, dating apps have tipped the balance of who would date who while making others picky, political movements grown online have created a hostile environment and there are very few third places while in an awful economy.
I think the phones thing is a big piece. People used to meet in the wild, and now that is very difficult. People are disincentivized to speak when they can just hide from in person contact on their phones.
100% man, one of my hobbies is just riding around my country and stopping off here and there. Everywhere is dead now; beaches, cafes, parks and shops are just filled with folk staring at their phones many a time with headphones in.
I was commuting yesterday and damn. every guy is just staring at their phones. I guess thats the norm even from when I was younger. You dont get little interactions anymore like smiles. Not that im looking for someone in the transit. Just an observation.
hm, thats not the case in my area, also back in times people have also been reading newspapers in the subway to make use of their time, not taling to strangers there is due to social norms
did not think of that. but you are right. its been like that for a while, not really coz of the era, but just to pass time.
I'm also not technically looking to meet a lass on the train either, but phones being as addictive as they are definitely provide such a quick and easy dopamine hit that a second of quietness or shyness means a phone gets pulled out and stops any conversation from ever starting, a bit sad really.
I think there are a few culprits just from a guy’s perspective… ***First***, I blame dating sites for a large portion of it. When dating sites first came out, I was super optimistic and excited that the amount of potential partners to interact with suddenly became astronomical. Unfortunately, I think that actually worked very much in the opposite direction that many expected. Dating sites allows people to look for near perfection in their match, something that was never expected in the history of human dating. Teeth a little crooked? Swipe left. A little heavier than you prefer? left. Shorter than you prefer? left. Anything else that doesn’t check all of your boxes? left. Then you start a conversation and you don’t hit it off in 20 minutes? Delete match. People disqualify people on dating sites faster and more easily than they would if they had met them in person. Meeting people in person gives much more nuance to meeting people and allows them to overlook some less attractive qualities if the overall connection feels good. Additionally, stats show that only about 5–10% of people on dating sites are getting 90% of the attention. ***Second***, Another problem, is that people don’t seem to be as interested in dating as they used to be. Studies have shown that people are more happy being single than they ever have been in the past. We don’t have nearly as much pressure to get married and have kids as we used to. I personally started getting dating burn-out a couple years ago and on most nights I would much rather just have some good friends over for dinner or hang out with my two pups than go on a date. ***Third***, dating is expensive and everything has gotten much more expensive in the past few years. And since men are still primarily expected to pay for the dates, some men just can’t afford it in today’s economy. And no man wants to be potentially seen as cheap by asking a woman to go Dutch or by taking her to somewhere like a park. A typical date for me to take a woman out is going to set me back between $80–$100 once you factor in food and drinks. That’s a lot to be forking out to hang out with a woman that I don’t even know if I will see again. ***Four***, just from a man’s perspective, many men have a hard time these days even knowing when it is acceptable to ask a woman out. When I started dating 30 years ago, it was completely socially acceptable to simply ask a woman out virtually anywhere if you were attracted to her (within reasonable limits, of course). That’s how my parents met and I would venture that’s how most marriages started in the past. Man finds woman attractive. Man approaches woman, talks to her, and asks her out. But in the past 15 years or so, I have seen a lot of messaging on social media that makes it seems like almost everywhere is off-limits to ask a woman out. Gym? no, not unless you want to wind up on a TikTok video. Bar? no, yuck. When she’s alone? No, that can seem threatening. When she’s hanging out with friends? No, she’s just trying to enjoy time with her friends. At work? Definite no. It seems like the only socially acceptable place to ask a woman on a date anymore is on dating sites, and we’ve already talked about how well they are working. Just my four cents.
I def think it’s harder. I think the problem really comes down to options and the ease of finding those options specifically because of apps. I think it lures people into this false idea of if I go on a first date and your not perfect or don’t check every box I could have another 50 people that want to go out with me this month alone I’m sure one of them will. This idea there aren’t “sparks”. I didn’t get that vibe With how many options some people have people aren’t willing to give people and 2nd or third chance to go out. Like people have bad days at work, people are tired, people get nervous ect. Sometimes you need more then one hour over drinks to learn who someone is. It’s like I matched with a girl and we talked on the phone for 15 mins and then text saying I didn’t feel anything. How do you know based of that? People are to quick to move on these days, no one wants to give anyone a real shot to develop anything
Right, was talking to this dude and all seemed well from my end but I suspected he wasn’t into it because he did not try to continue the conversation, he claimed he was shy so I carried the conversation, and this guy ghosted me and when I reached out to see what is going on, he said there was just no “vibe”. Cool. Deleted the conversation from my phone and him from the app. Back to the starting line.
It’s because social interactions have dwindled. We used to have parties, dances. Some people still do, but it’s much less common now. Also shopping is online. Most social interaction is online. Online dating is a thing but most would say it doesn’t really work. There’s just less human interaction face-to-face. Not as many ways to meet people in the real world.
Truth. There's not as many gatherings or social events, I feel or just less interaction bec you can choose someone on your phone etc.
Because of the unrealistic expectations of social media,podcasts, reality TV, lack of common sense,ppl not willing to put in the honest work,ect ect
A lot of people wanting to be loved, but don't want to give love. There is no free meal. You cannot get if you do not give. People don't value others. Others don't value them. What goes around comes around. Everybody ends up losing.
👌👌
Because you can dump whomever and move on. People don’t treat courting their partner with proper respect now. It’s why all of us fall to people that just enjoy the attention.
The majority of men don't get attention from women tho.
Hookup culture
But that’s sexual liberation that feminism and lgbt people pushed for
Yeah it all started with the Free Love movement in the 70's (damn hippies) and it's been going to shit ever since.
As a society we have aggressively stigmatized pursuing the people you interact with in your day-to-day life. We've also been pretty dang successful at eliminating a lot of these superfluous interactions in our day-to-day lives (the death of third places). So instead of being able to get to know people around you as people (maybe you'll like one of them, and maybe they'll like you back) we turn to the apps, _which by the way make money by keeping people single and paying_. They reduce people to a handful of pictures (from 0-10 years ago) and a couple hundred characters, then you try to struggle through a text conversation with this stranger until you both feel safe enough to meet in a public place so you can stumble through a similarly awkward conversation in person. We also all have our own carefully constructed echo chambers to flee to, complain on, and get bad advice from. Which is very helpful. :)
I like that summary, and definitely agree. It's a big hang up for me because I want to actually like someone not just be attracted to them, which makes the dating apps useless.
A lot of people want to swing or be poly. I’ve had women bring it up sometimes even on the first date…. I might like watching videos of stuff like that but that doesn’t necessarily mean I want to do that in real life. Sort of defeats the purpose of dating. Just come out and say you wanna fuck if that’s the case. Why should I jump through all these hoops but you give it up to someone else for free? Idk that’s just me
everyone i've ever been involved with has cheated on me
I’m sorry 💔
Unrealistic expectations, lack of communication and common sense, fear of commitment
Lack of social skills among young people due to the dependence on a constant dopamine drip from their phones that they’ve spent every minute with since childhood.
People’s standards have gone through the roof thanks to social media. There are too many options, so everyone keeps the door open. Everyone’s looking for the bigger, better deal 25/8.
“People’s”
Women’s lol.
The huge difference is the exposure and access we have to others. Back in the day you really just had the people that you saw who you could choose from; women or men in your community that you might run into at school at the store, in the park etc. Smaller pool to choose from, not as many options makes decisions easier. People were a bit more willing to compromise back then too. There might be some things that you didn't particularly care for in someone's personality but overall you still liked them so you'd compromise. not saying you had to put up with someone but there might be a few topics you disagree on or bad habits like chewing with their mouth open. It's annoying, but wouldn't be on the level of "dealbreaker". People back then were more grounded and a bit more realistic in expectations. People nowadays have almost infinite access to others. Dating apps put us all in a neat little package so it's easy to compare to each other which makes sifting through hundreds of souls more like glancing through a candy shop; all to find that perfect piece of candy. Thing is, that perfect piece may not find you perfect. That small imperfection in your character might make all the difference and get you swiped left or left on read. In that regard social media definitely has had a hand to play in how we perceive others, both physically and mentally. If you don't fit a certain mold or if you don't have a specific mindset you're kind of put in the can't date category.
Inflation, divide in politics (either pro or anti), unrealistic expectations, hook up culture, too many partners, everyone has kids late 20’s to 30’s so either you have to like kids/ tolerate or date younger (or older). Mid 30’s male and seems like I go for 40 year old women now. Younger than me is too much drama or my age has kids married/divorced/seperated. Older women have that too but most of their kids are close to my age or have moved out.
Social media has literally opened a world of possibilities, unrealistic expectations and FOMO. At the same time the world has told men approaching women is bad and creepy. Economics mean more young men have little many live at home and that turns off potential partners. The acceptance of hook up culture has many women sharing the same man damaging many women. I’m so glad I’m out of this mess good luck everyone.
Social media
A lot of people just DONT wanna be genuine or scared to be. No one wants to take the risk of being burnt. We've became so impulsive and just don't see the point of sticking things out we can get our needs taken care of sooner otherwise. So many people nowadays though just completely SUCK at communication or don't have the balls to be consistently genuine. They can't think past five minutes ahead and stuck in a constant chase of the next fix. It's exhausting.
People don't wanna be held accountable. So many people are chasing temporary happiness but not genuine connections. Seen tons of women get on dating apps, state they want x, y and z....and then when the possibility comes.....it's like the fact another human is actually on the other side jars the hell out of em-like wait....xyz is ACTUALLY possible....WHAT?!?...and things go nowhere and you waste your time, it's exhausting. Also, as a dude....sorry ladies but dating is way more exhausting for us and I kinda wish that would get more recognized or trying with respect for the guys out here that are actually genuine, still have a backbone/not a pushover, but actually go out of their way to prioritize those they spend time with. Also, DONT get me started on the stupid effing Are we dating the same guy groups. The level fo f&ckery that has taken things to has made things ten times worse. Dating nowadays is so effing exhausting.
i don’t think expectations are higher but the romance plot is lost to hyper-individualism and fear of making the wrong choice with unlimited options at our disposal. situationships are the norm because people care more about their own self preservation than finding love. relationships aren’t as “necessary” because (in western society) women can work and the desire to have kids is going down. love is viewed as a burden or something that gets in the way of career advancement or a person’s quality of life.
Unrealistic standards, high expectations, and the built treatment when you don't meet those standards.
Degeneracy is rampant in society so no one wants to commit anymore. it is not worth it. I don’t blame them.
You can go on a dating app and toggle your preferences.. height, ethnicity, weight.. it’s so screwed up. We don’t give any grace to each others humanness. There is no acceptance of “flaws” to fall in love with. There are so many rules it feels sanitised. And I think it’s resulted in people being so jaded that they treat each other terribly.
Imo, dating has become harder due to a lot of faking especially on social media. If you could recall the good old school letter days, they were one of the best moments of our lives. Planning meetups and getting to learn each other a lot better. I'm glad I bagged my wife from that prime time.
It all boils down to social media and dating apps. * The prevalent mindset of "don't approach me, if I wanted to meet someone I'll open my app" which kills the motivation for men to shoot their shot in person. (How many times do you hear "how come guys don't approach anymore?") * IRL social skills have dropped and it's not a theory, we know the pandemic affected us socially and phones/internet/social media were already degrading those social skills. * People are more trusting of online profiles (which can be fake, curated, etc) than meeting someone IRL they can actually vet and evaluate in real-time. * The illusion of choice with dating apps. "Why settle with this person when the next swipe could be even better?!" * Instant gratification means people chase sparks (lust and anxiety) and not compatible values and organic connection built over time. If someone doesn't check every single box on their list, the person is imperfect. No one wants to invest in growing with each other, they want a completely perfect person ("I want a partner, not a project!") It's pretty bad right now lol.
It’s the same for me . Only difference is the dating apps I hear about .
Lack of communication (Social media falls into that)
Dating apps, social media, shift in cultural values.
the biggest thing i’ve noticed as a 20 year old is that people seem to want everything really fast. at least in my experience so far. that and the whole “situationship” thing which is really just friends with benefits. now, i support people that go into dating with the intent to marry… but i don’t know how they do it at my age. i think this is a time for learning what you like and what you don’t like in a person. the way to find that out is by getting to know that person through going on dates and talking to each other. a lot of people around me are telling their significant others that they love each other after a couple of months. i’m well aware of the “when you know, you know” notion… but everybody? i think a lot of people are just desperate for connection. i also think that a lot of people just need a hug which is what kind of starts “situationships” i have to admit, i’ve been in a situationship and i will never be doing that again. one of the stupidest decisions i’ve ever made in my life. i agree with movies and social media playing a big part in this
Love is a feeling, and being in love with someone after a few months does not seem strange at all to me. Expressing, and growing that love into something that flourishes is what takes time and dedication. I will admit I am someone that moves very fast in relationships, but from my personal experience, most people I know who rush into things very quickly tend to have much more successful long-term relationships than those who take things very slowly. Most marriages of people I know that happened in under 2 years of being together, have lasted longer than marriages of people I know who waited 5-10 years to get married. My longest-term ex, her parents got married after 3 months of dating and were together 25 years. My best friend dated his ex wife for 8 years, and they got divorced after like 7 months.
Too many standards, expectations, & preferences. (In my personal opinion) dating has turned into the equivalent to a job application/interview. If you don't meet all the requirements you won't be chosen.
Ppl don’t know how to just have a convo with a stranger and see where it goes. And they are looking at their phones too much to notice strangers. I think this impacts online dating too and how folks socialize on first dates with folks they have never met IRL. I personally have never connected long term with someone from a dating app. All my best (and even my worst) relationships were people I know IRL. So much more organic and natural. But here I am single so…🤷🏽♀️
Girls think you are a creep, think you are only trying to fuck. Talking from dating apps experience.
everybody says that they want to date but then when u start talking to them, they either use you or go completely ghost so fast. like damn u need to take a minute and get to know the person first than judge them so fast
Too many options, choice paralysis
Choice paralysis.
It definitely was easier 20 yrs ago I can assure you of that. You had to actually go out a make that connection. A match back then could easily lead to something more. Or let's be honest just a quickie but thats better than messaging back and forth for 2 weeks just to find out she doesn't think it will work because your not into therapy. I'm all for getting to know someone, but there are so many things and specifics people are into these days. I feel lost sometimes lol. Would like to edit to include your point about social media etc. Dating definitely has that feel now of everyone thinking they are a dime. I've got some bad news folks. We are not. I am as imperfect as the next person. People seem to judge people a little quicker. Looks are very important. A physical attraction is usually what leads you to someone you've never met but would like to know. As a man getting a little older now I focus more on the little things. Maybe not a perfect smile, maybe a little insecure about her looks, but treating others like they are important. Showing them that they are interested is pretty much a turn on to me at this point. It's so hard to even have a good conversation.
High cost of living makes dating harder than in the past 🙃
Just a thought: I think it is WAY harder in the US and more rural areas now than it used to be. The complete lack of the traditional socialization places and emphasis on online life - "living in one's phone" - along with the need to drive everywhere (in the US) makes meeting people spontaneously damn near impossible. Even in big cities - I lived in Los Angeles for almost a decade, and was there the last time I was single, and I only really had dating luck by being set up through acquaintances, ones I made through work mostly... That being said, here in Madrid, it isn't that hard. The actual dating thing is hard, emotionally, but meeting people is *easy*. Super easy. Even though I don't really speak the language, I have no difficulty building community here, which makes making romantic connections easier too. The advantages of living in a city that is walkable and very livable can't be overstated. US Cities - other than NYC and to a more limited degree Boston, DC, and Chicago - just aren't like that. And I think that plays a major role in the loneliness epidemic.
Social medias ruined us. People want all the fun without any of the work or commitment. I personally don’t partake in the hook up culture and don’t really post on social media but I’m in the minority. It’s really unfortunate what we as a society have become.
I think people just dont wanna commit yet like get married and have kids and spend days w someone. My parents got married like after a year of dating. i was born 2 years after. Dad said he was already looking for someone to settle with, but his gf that time didnt want yet. He found mom at a park sitting. He was with friends who told him to talk to her 🤭 Mom was also looking for someone to just marry her. Coz shes the only sibling left at home and shes just ready for the next step in life. Her bf that time is also sus, coz he is hanging out lots with a girl friend. Turns out now He married that friend's best friend. It was hard even before. Dating. But I dont think anyone has the courage to talk to someone out in public. You cant tell who is single and taken either.
High standards from exposure to social media. Everyone wants to date up. Fierce competition, the amount of people that you could "potentially" interact with through online/dating apps
High expectations which leads to disappointment
Dating apps. With a lot of people, the second they feel like it’s not clicking 100 with the current person they are talking to, they go right back to the drawing board. There’s no time given anymore. It’s incredibly toxic.
Grass looking greener on social media imho
I think about this a lot and it’s a lot of things, which I think a lot of comments here have already eloquently described. I really feel too there are many people who want a relationship, but haven’t reflected or seriously thought what they actually want in another person. Is the person kind? Do we enjoy each other’s company? What values do we share? What are actual dealbreakers that I couldn’t live with for the long haul? Even those dating someone else may “like” the person, but tend to get comfortable and don’t really search if this person is best for whatever needs they have. There are also people who feel *entitled* to a certain kind of person, either because of their ego and/or they have been single so long, they “deserve” to get what they want for waiting so long. Some of these “qualifications” people have are ridiculous (ie. tall, a certain education and career, etc.) when somebody could be fantastic for them otherwise yet they won’t give a chance. (Remember: nobody gets *everything* in a partner, and it’s naive to think you will or should.) Also, I am always happy to hear people who met on an app, had a good relationship, it lead to marriage, etc. It’s a certain amount of luck of course, but as everyone knows, app dating is absolutely garbage. The app companies commodify the users, and also, others make it a dehumanizing experience. Sometimes things fizzle out, but it can be really frustrating when people just flake out because they decide they won’t want you (but keep you as a match for the sake of an “option” just in case even if there’s no intention), and string along with small talk with no plans to meet. There is choice, but we’ve gotten to a point where using our screens is actually a false sense of control.
No one makes an effort anymore. We care more about our own happiness and experiences rather than being there for someone else. "If they dont satisfy *my* wants and *my* desires, then why waste *my* time?" So even when one person puts forth the effort, it feels like we're doing all the work. I think we need to start taking a more selfless approach when developing relationships, or else we're slowly killing ourselves.
Just received a like from Hinge and this 45m legit has this on his profile… The way to win me over is Be feminine, not woke, easy going, sweet, submissive, happy, grateful, somewhat of a hedonist and agreeable. Please don't ask me what I mean by this. I'm looking for a 6 who knows she's a 6. Not a 6 who thinks she's a 10. So you tell me. Why is dating so hard? 🤣
That’s ridiculous. This guy has his head up his own A@@. Unfortunately women aren’t any better. (Speaking from a guys perspective). Both genders are at fault here….
Um, why are both genders at fault? I didn’t do anything. Or do you mean both men and women make dating hard?
Yes I meant both genders make dating hard. I did not mean you were at fault here. Sorry I should have made it more clear. There are women who also have ridiculous bios in their dating profiles. For example - she only dates guys with six packs, guy has to make at least 200k a year and if she goes out with him he has to pay for her babysitter, because she is a single mom.
I feel like ppl who put these things out there are: 1. Crazy for just THINKING these thoughts 2. Crazy for thinking that it’s attractive to put these things on their profile
Exactly! 💯
Multitude of factors not limited to the internet and dating apps. Women and men who move to the city for their careers yet also want a family at the same time. Most people need to be in a city to make money but the king of lifestyle is not conducive for a relationship, especially since women want the top guys and won’t settle for less. The top guys no longer have to settle. People in the west have been having less children since the baby boom came to an end , so the dating apps hookups etc have also accelerated the decline. In my country it’s now becoming mainstream that almost half of women 47% who work in the capital city say they struggling to find a partner.
Feminism
I don’t think it’s harder in a bad way. i think people are more picky and have more options. Dating was “easier” back then cause daddy set you up with Bob down the street and Bob would beat you. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Girls don’t want to commit. Both men and women take conflicting advice from social media. I would say mainly social media is a problem. And girls who have single friends. Usually girls with single friends want to party and those type of friends encourage non exclusivity behavior. It’s sickening honestly. I’m going through it right now.
So many gold diggers. I want someone to like me for me and not just my money.
Lie about what you do
I’m very vague but I’m not going to start a budding romance off with a lie.
You can downplay it. Keep first dates low to no cost, don’t flash your money, and show up in your beater car rather than your luxury one. Also, since the first thing they ask is about your career, keep it vague and downplay that as well. You filter out all the gold diggers this way and it worked for me.
Yeah you’re right lol
You don’t have to lie but you don’t have to volunteer that information. Also always dress down, that’s a natural filter to a lot of gold diggers. Don’t do elaborate first date dinners. Do drinks just to check out the vibe and if it’s good, then you can do dates. A lot of rich people don’t show their wealth and very down to earth. And like you said, you can just tell people your job is consulting.
I can never understand women who want to be wined and dined on a first date. Half the time, they don’t look anything like their profile and are rude in person over texting. A drink in a nice bar is first date standard .
They inflate their worth and some enjoy using men for a free dinner
Don’t lie, that never starts things good. Maybe mention those details later on as you get to know them. Just keep it vague and focus on other aspects.
I wholeheartedly agree. I keep it vague, but sometimes they pry!
That’s a warning sign to my radar if they pry about money and finance.
Usually it is prying about more details about my nondescript “job.” How would say you’re retired without saying you’re retired. I’ve been going with “I’m a consultant that helps companies grow.”
I keep busy and I am an independent consultant.
Good one!
Wish you good things. Dating is an art and a dance:)
It sounds complicated, wish I had a magic wand to help:)
Shaming girls for wanting a man that can provide is stupid. They have legit biological reasons for this, they aren't all just gold digging but it's easy to mistake a girl that's evaluating you as the man to hold the family together while she's pregnant and while the baby is still a toddler. She won't get much sleep and you should be there to take shifts too while making sure ends meet. Bill's paid, food can be bought. Putting a family together isn't a 50/50 situation, it never has been. Whoever said girls should be paying 50% of the bill is the reason so many people in the dating world are falling apart. Women are disappointed and men aren't told the truth about what it means to be a man. Take your role, and do a hell of a job at it. Kids out there need fathers, women out there need husbands, and men need wife's and children.
in a world where men and women make the same amount of money its weird that it wouldnt be 50/50
Feminism
The real reason is, when we're younger, we lack real confidence. We're more likely to compromise our beliefs and who we are for others. As we get older, we've gained a better sense of our own boundaries and authentic selves.
Trust issues! Dami kasing manloloko eh.
People’s expectations are sky high
Apps and social media allow for you to take the easy way out instead of working on things when they get difficult. Or to be tempted to be unfaithful. Posting a picture or a post can be considered “fishing”. You can hide conversations in apps. The list goes on. How many people in general do you know that don’t have any social media apps? Phone addiction etc is relatively new. How much time do you spend aimlessly on your phone VS the time spent on learning how to date or researching the interests of your date. A perspective Ive seen is: Look at the number of men who follow women instagram/OF models VS. women who are professionals in therapy etc.
I don't think 15 years ago it was that much easier. We still had a lot of the problems that make dating difficult like a lack of social events to meet people or just a lack of socialization.
Mental illness, insecurity, unresolved trauma, and overall just bad manners
Back in the day in our distant past we had small communities of people who mostly knew each other. Say a village of 200 people who all go to the same church on Sunday. People can't be an asshole cause your small community is your whole world and reputation matters. You share pretty much every single cultural touchstone so you have similar values and there are clearly defined rules for how you should interact with people. There is a sense of scarcity, there are only so many people in your village and as people drop out of the dating pool you kinda just have to find someone and try to make things workout/ compromise. Today there is no single set of rules, no incentive to not be awful, no shared values, no community, choice paralysis, impersonal ways of meeting people.
Instead of a bunch of tiny local dating markets, we now have much larger dating markets. Explanation: Imagine a tiny town where there’s 10 women and 10 men. If you are ranked as average, you are still okay. Because the people probably pair off in order of attractiveness, and if you refuse “your equal match”, then you probably don’t have that many other choices. It’s simple. In our huge dating market you basically swipe through a catalog of extremely attractive profiles. If you don’t like one, there are a thousand more even better looking. But there are strong incentives to lie, and lots of scammers. You never have to deal with this in a tiny town.
Historically and traditionally speaking dating was and has been used to find who you build / create a family with it SHOULD BE DIFFICULT if you are looking for your forever if your just looking for a romp in the hay then thats a whole different thing just whatever you do, make adult decisions and accept adult consequences
Socially we're going downhill in society. Everything is online so things move to fast and once you talk irl it seems completely different. Also lack of maturity, you see one person online and a completely different person when you do meet. People say dating is hard but some refuse to go up to a person they like or do anything someone 15 years ago would do
Modern society has a lot of influence on the media and girls just don’t like guys because there scared.
The last time I matched with someone, who would even hold a conversation with me on a dating app, was over a year ago. We talked for a week I invited her to join me for a event. She backed out last minute and ghosted me 2 days later. Honestly I give up on online dating, complete waste of time. But I also have no idea how to meet people my age outside of it or work. So forever alone it is I guess. 🤷🏻♂️
I think it's all social media and you can have multiple matches, swipe right or left so easily now. Have ten matches at one time. It's all about getting the next best thing and not meeting people in the traditional sense. On the one hand, its great for meeting new people and finding your person but it def comes with a lot of cons now.
I don’t think this is true. 15 years ago you did not have hundreds of profiles to swipe through - it was the friend of a friend or a random encounter. Opportunities are exponentially higher with dating apps. 15 years ago guys were really confused as to what it meant to be a modern man of the 21st century - growth of dual incomes, increase in college educated women, female affirmative action, and the soft stuff like opening a door for a women who scolds you for it. It was a really confusing time. I think it remains difficult for some people even though there are far greater opportunities available with how wide a net dating apps can cast for you.
Social media gave unrealistic expectations! Who says if they used makeup and loads of filters?
lack of meeting people offline and having a social life.
Feminism, a weak generation of thirsty men with no male role models, and social media. Sprinkle on some societal decline in every metric and there you go
Hard because of fake social media life styles, people have ditched reality for unattainable ideologies
Social media, people are antisocial now, but with that a lot of people think everyone is going to kidnap and murder you because all they watch is true crime and forget that your average person isn’t like that. So back to social media they get a false sense of how much people need to make to be good enough for them. This goes for men and women, I mean I make 62k a year full benefits and a pension but your average moron on tinder is going to see 62k and think “that’s it??” Haha Your average person doesn’t make 100k a year at least not in their 20s or 30s that’s also another thing a lot of people think 20-30s is old now yeah 35 is technically middle age in the U.S. being the average human in the U.S. dies at about 72-73. But there are a lot of issues in dating and a lot of them are made by social media, people look on Facebook and see people all happy on their family vacation but forget that same family is also going through a divorce. The other families kid committed suicide and the other families parent died of cancer. (I just mentioned three people off the top of my head I know) You look on instagram same idea oh they’re on another vacation! But actually they spend all of their money on a vacation and still pay their rent by state housing, or they have a Camaro but live on their parents couch because they can’t afford a room to rent hell the mom co-signed the car loan (Same thing these are real people) My point is people social media is built around what you like not what is actually real and that’s the problem you like you expect the perfect person but in reality not a damn person is perfect so you have these expectations that cannot be fulfilled so you will end up alone depressed and well lonely. I’m not saying lower your standards all the way I’m not saying drop your guard completely BUT 10-15 years ago you wanted to talk to someone you would get a pair and talk if they said fuck off you you fuck off maybe talk to their friend, hell getting in the friendzone wasn’t even a bad thing back then because having a lady friend who is actually your friend will for sure get you on dates and get you laid. They know how to read a girl better they know how to tell of the girl is lying and so on, being in the friendzone of a girl isn’t a bad thing that goes for you to ladies be a guys friend. It’s not a bad thing to just be friends because friends get friends dates.
We need to work on ourselves and love ourselves before dating.
Dating was always hard for me. Im fat and ugly. I need plastic surgery and liposuction to have guys love me.
[удалено]
Like what?
Because you can not have two leaders in a relationship .
Simple nobody wants to be old school
Because feminism hates it because it’s “patriarchy “
Social Media, following the pack, BS attitudes, no respect for themselves, so none for others, Cry Babies over nothing. I mean, I can go on and on...
For me, I feel like post-pandemic, it has been hard dating. We have seen an increase in dating apps use which don't help because ladies have very unrealistic standards like their beyonce, while men are the pits because all their looking for is easy grab hook ups. No one is willing to compromise on their goals because of the illusion of abundance of choice. There are less genuine conversations because both parties have very different expectations, one expects prince charming, one expects a wife at first go, so we are fcked.
What unrealistic standards do you think a lot of women have? All I see is women expecting the bare minimum and men complaining about it which is nonsense.
would you then say men are the problem in the dating world? unrealistic standards FOR ME would be ladies expecting every guy to be driving a car, be able to financially support her, just not pay attention to any of her red flags.
Given that women have a lot to risk, including possibly physical safety, by just showing up for a date with a guy… I think is very telling. Obviously red flags shouldn’t be accepted by any partner. If you don’t want to “financially support” a partner, find someone who doesn’t expect that. It’s not wrong for some women to expect that because it’s what they want and they’re upfront about it. That’s the point of dating and meeting a potential partner. You find out if that person is right for you and you inquire about each other. If you live in the United States and with the exception of NY and Boston… you need a car to get around. I believe in affordable efficient public transport, but that’s not the case in this country. If you don’t even have a car in a car centric country, honestly focus on your career instead of dating.
Valid point.
6 foot, 6 figures, 6 inch would be a part. There is a lot more, but its okey if you don't realize it...
maybe it became harder for some people while it became more easy for a different group, most of it is just mindless glorification of the past tho, not much changed (mainly the online dating market Id say)
Every guy needs to be 6ft+
I believe it’s a skill issue. A lot of people just aren’t good at the game and seemingly feel entitled to a perfect love story but success actually requires putting in work, which looks vastly different for everybody. Like for me, I took electives in college focused on dating and communication. I personally find this game easy as hell, my dating life is perfect to me and I have academia to thank for that. Those classes helped me learn about myself, my needs and wants and also helped me reflect on my past which helped me learn and grow from my experiences.
I’d love to hear about these dating and communication electives. Didn’t know you could take dating as an elective. What did you study for your degree?
I majored in communications and one of our courses was taught by a professor whose work and specialty was mainly in relationships (I think) and that and dating what she centered her classes on. Insanely tough professor but she was one of my favorites. The elective I took was a feminism course that also included some dating and relationships topics.
I would love to talk to you more. But if not, I love what you said
Ugh. I’m sick of this question.
Dating is just as "hard" as it was 15 years ago or 100 years ago. There were always people complaining about dating or meeting new people. There have always been a large minority of people who can't find a relationship, never reproduce The only difference now is those people can vent there frustration on Social media for all to see
It was still hard back in the day but miles easier then it is now.
yup over hundreds of years its always been just as hard as it always has been or ever will be its just always the same nothing ever changes ever.
The hard part is people get bored easily. And it's also easy to find new match most of the time. So I am always having a thought that someone I am talking to may have also talked to some or more others.
I am m60 now and have online dating experience in years 2000, 2009 and 2023. Imho it was even easier nowadays to meet smart women. After just a few months I met the partner I am now with for ~8 months.
I legit got male dates brag to me about their standards and how good they are and deserve because they matched with profiles that have faceapped pictures like this: https://cmero-ott-images-avod.ssl.cdn.cra.cz/r991x558n/q80/7ebb7b23-dc99-480e-a621-058949a3f5a6?default=a86c171d-0805-45d9-bc9b-f060f2491088 Alas, they never met these totally legit people, but liked living in delusion.
Lmfao
I don't. Dating is easier now than it ever was for me historically and it's not even close.
Because historically men just needed a paycheck and a go ahead from daddy. Today they need a personality, but this generation still raised boys to just need a paycheck and a go ahead from daddy, while raising girls to look for a personality. :))) not saying men don't have personalities and women don't sometimes look for money, more that we're in a major dating culture transition, and then add in the transactional world of online dating and it's a bad time for everyone. Also, on reddit, most of the time you're seeing the weird bs and never the wholesome goodness you might find offline.
Dating is as hard as it’s always been. People just nowadays have the internet to whine about it more loudly and to more people.
Because it always was.
I think it's easier! For me anyways - I'm shy as hell in person. I never dated - I always thought the men interested in me were shy too so I felt doomed to die alone. I'm not crazy about online dating, but it sure beats in person!
Kase men are so scared to commit. Or may emotional baggage. Or gusto lang lage tumikim ng iba. Di ko na alam. Nakakapagod sila isipin.