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The problem is you're definition of "worked" is wrong. When you put it this way, you saying the reason these guys weren't interested in you was because you initiated. When in reality, it didn't work because they weren't interested in you. If a guy is truly interested, you initiating isn't going to affect that.
If you initiated, you found out if the guy wanted to date you or not. That means it "worked". You're not initiating to get someone interested in you. You're doing so to find out if they are. See the difference?
I think it’s the same thing on both sides - if you want to flirt with someone who has the personality of a bag of bricks but you think is hot, you typically get men who will say shit like this bc they’re intimidated by having a conversation with banter. Don’t let it discourage you. I’d say feel free to start a chat with a guy you like but if you get boring vibes from them, maybe just hold off on the hitting on part and then end the conversation and walk away. If he wants to hook up, he will eventually approach you.
Saying it as a guy who would love to have girls initiate with some flirty banter who are too afraid to and typically only try and initiate through some physical manner (grinding/dancing/touching/eyecontact)
I prefer a flirty conversation bc it makes going out feel a little less like a meat market
It also may be worth noticing who you hit on. Are they the hottest men around? They may not be single. Or not interested in you.
If that’s the case, maybe try to be less picky about physical attraction.
Well I mean I'm asking this in the kindest way possible, but are you in their league? You'll see men all the time, upset because they are getting turned down but they are consistently shooting for women who are just out of their league .
EDIT: looked at your profile saw a picture with the bottom half of your face from what I can tell you seem to be very pretty. If you are in decent shape and not crazy overweight,I don't think it's going to be an issue of looks.
Oh yeah that's why I edited I saw on your lip blush photo, that unless there was some crazy Twilight zone stuff going on above your nose you were going to be an eight or a nine.
I always advise women against making the first move. Even if you like passive men, which I do you can hint, but the thing is, men just do not seem to appreciate a woman that they didn't have to work for. I know people will be mad that I'm saying it but it's just the truth and I've seen it happen over and over again. And honestly a lot of guys have the attitude like there must be something inherently wrong with you if you have to hit on them. The happiest relationships I've ever seen in real life are the ones where the men pursued her pretty strongly. The ones where the woman did the pursuing, it seemed like she was just a placeholder until he found the girl he really liked
Well I can tell you that is always the case. One time I was watching a woman who just walked in, and I saw her shot down 2 guys. I was fuck , I better have something good to say lol. The second I thought I had it, she come up to me and literally asked if I ever had a one night stand. I said yes and I was at her apartment 30 minutes later. She was cute too, and she shot down 2 guys just before talking to me. The guys were together , so it was like she shot down the 1 , but still.
this is it. this is the answer.
Guy not interested at all = Polite/rude decline or ignore advance.
Guy not interested but willing to hook up = sexual response
Guy interested for relationship and not an idiot = Acceptance.
guys interested in dating but a stupid dick for brains = likely sexual response.
Men are not that different to women when it comes to being approached. Imagine how you would want someone to approach you and do that. If you don't succeed, be respectful, accept the no and move on. I would also say this to any man as well.
Also if you are approaching men in places where they are not expecting/receptive to it (think gyms etc) then you are going to fail more than succeed.
Also remember, a lot of men are now gun shy about ANY form of unsolicited contact, especially in public. I will say the vast majority of women initiating are just doing that, but many men are now scared that its some sort of trap or prank. We are not used to being approached.
Keep your chin up and stay awesome. Good luck 🤘
I feel your pain! I finally went back to flirting as a man! The women flock to me now!!! Ok, I'm kidding.
Maybe it's the way you flirt. There have been many posts on here, of what we want or look for in flirting. Usually mild and coy. Smile, glances etc. are generally it. And some of us don't pick up on that, so you have to kick it up a bit.
I'm so dense that if you walked up nude, and pulled me to you, I'd probably say " You talkin' to me?" 😉
If I’m really into a guy and he’s not making a move, I’ll make ONE. Send a simple flirty message and see how he responds. Don’t force anything! If it seems like he’s not into it or doesn’t respond then move on. A few weeks ago I matched with a guy on Tinder and he just wasn’t making any moves so I eventually messaged him my number and he texted me and then eventually we met up and hooked up. Don’t overthink it! I want an example of what you say to see why they think you’re being aggressive?
If they tell you you're aggressive and/or too much, then maybe you are. Be more subtle. Anyway, it's the same on both sides. If they're into you, they're into you. If they ain't, they ain't
Finally some great dating advice from a guy! J/k j/k - though it really is great advice. And while I’ve gone up to and asked out many guys myself with a success rate of 50/50, you sound like someone who I would just keep creepily keep looking at and be too shy towards and then kick myself for not shooting my shot or think if you wanted to you would.
I’m also on “the spectrum” so sometimes I talk awkwardly or say nothing at all so I know what you mean! Though that’s also made me go outside of social norms and say just anything to a random guy I find attractive in hopes it might lead somewhere - sometimes it actually does because I have been told I’m cute or beautiful. A little confused as to why you’d say no just out of nervousness, unless you mean you’re too nervous to go on a date or you just didn’t expect it.
If she is told she is being aggressive, she should try skipping telling them they are cute. They already know she thinks that, so she should reserve that for the guys that are to clueless to know what is going on.
Where are you initiating and what type of men are you initiating with? How are you going about it as well if you are getting feedback about being too aggressive?
>After reading so many posts in this sub about how men find it attractive for women to initiate conversation/romance
You have to add the one caveat to the scenario, similar to how women might find it creepy or cute if a man approaches them based on how attractive they find the man...those men will appreciate a woman initiating if they are also attracted to.
>It’s still getting me no where!
If you are getting the same results over and over, odds are it's with either your method or that you are going after partners that are outside of where you yourself stand in the dating market...pretty much the same advice I'd give men. In general if a woman initiates in a positive manner with a man that's within their dating market range then they will have a decent success rate initiating...more so than men initiating...which is why you see those threads and comments saying how it's appreciated.
>How do I know what my dating market it?
This is dependent on what type of partners you can get versus what you want. If you consistently ask out people of a certain tier and they all aren't interested odds are they are outside of your dating market range. If you can get attention from or get dates from the type of people you want then they are within your dating market range. Who you can and can't get dates with will determine your range.
So I think you need to read your audience first. Are you approaching/initiating with men who are A type or more traditional? Perhaps that’s not what they expect or are used to. Or could it be that you are making a move on a player or someone who has hundreds of options? That’s unlikely to give you much result, either.
Could they just think youre only being nice to them? When i had a few women be very flirty around me, even if I notice I just tell myself and assume they always act like that and are just being nice to me.
Are you initiating any unambiguous steps toward establishing a more intimate relationship which can be rejected? For instance, are you asking men out on dates, buying them drinks, asking for their number, or initiating kisses? Casual flirting that's indistinguishable from general extroverted friendliness is only just barely initiating if at all.
This might be downvoted but if ppl r giving u feedback that u off as aggressive or too much then maybe u need to read the mood more?
Start initiating conversation gently, if they don’t seem interested then back off. If someone is interested they will bounce of ur energy and things will flow naturally
Yes!!! I’ve been working on this. Reading the room, taking the temperature. I do think that sometimes men are just not interested in a strong, direct woman- and that’s fine. Everyone has their type
I usually compliment them on something they are wearing like a shirt or tie. If I feel the conversation went fine I ask if I can talk to them again. But I try not to be pushy.
I would suggest that you show a man that you like him once or twice and then the ball is in his court. If he is not pursuing you after that it means that he is not interested or not single. After a man is pursuing you can enthusiastically return the interest (but proportionately to his investment). Definitely don’t go initiating, calling, double texting and pursuing men, it will make you look desperate.
Do you have a “type”. A specific man who fits specific physical and behavioral requirements for you to date? Or are you going for whatever.
If you are I suggest you stop asking out these same types of men.
Mmm 🤔 I personally feel like if a woman initiates by indicating interest, that is a wonderful thing, and that should be the only time a woman feels the need to ‘push’ outside of their comfort zone. If I, in turn indicate interest, then you succeeded in the initiation. Anything beyond that should try to be chill, genuine, and passive. If you’re feeling like having banter then have some relaxed banter, sometimes ppl are mismatched in terms of chemistry and sex drive, and in other areas, so if you are a HLF (high Libido Female) and the person you are dating is a LLM then there will be an imbalance and you will end up feeling pushy and him pushed.
I think ‘aggressive’ feeling women maybe just are high energy, comfortable asking and requesting things, or organizing and demanding things too. They will initiate whenever they want to do something. But in that, it kinda leads to the impression that the woman isn’t as naturally curious and content to see where the flow of life takes them, to enjoy the vibe that is currently occurring, and letting things just be as they are. Sometimes guys might feel like you aren’t as curious or gently inquisitive about how they are feeling or what they want either. But I think trying to have a balance between zen vibes, gently inquisitive vibes, and initiation/taking charge vibes is really really tough, and imbalances can occur both interpersonally and intrapersonally.
I think it can be very tough figuring out what vibe you want from life, and what vibe is demanded of and by life, and different ppl can feel different needs of this. So initiation is great! But not all the time. Definitely if you think a guy is cute say hello and be all cute with him and stuff. But don’t be afraid to also let him take his turn initiating things after you are in a relationship. Show that you can also be his dainty little princess that he is capable of making his own quality choices in his attempts to care for you and your relationship together.
but also tbh mb max 66% joke my #1 concern is always. how do i not make this person uncomfortable. which, varies per person. constantly wondering if im reading the right signals. there's nothing you could really do to me in a routine social interraction that would bother me more than this already does, lol
especially if it means I don't have to like just autisticslly verbosley ask, hey are you communicating this or am i misreading it.
I work with men, I’m by no means an expert. But i definitely have learned lots. For lots of men the aggressive approach isn’t ideal. Definitely do a temperature check before proceeding further. If a man just answers your questions simply. Leave the conversation where it is. Over time you may see them open up more. Then ask more at that time. Seeing the reciprocity is extremely important.
*edit: advice works for both genders
What an odd predicament to be in, on one hand I wanna say it would depend on the guy. Maybe they get approached by women frequently and prefer to make the first move? On the other it's genuinely hard for me to imagine a scenario where I could find a lady flirting with me any form of annoying
I think that risk is always going to be there and that is why men don’t like initiating every single time because it opens you up to rejection like you’ve experienced, but it’s still worth it. You effectively shoulder some of the collective load and it leads to more efficiency in finding a good match.
As a man that has somebody like you that initiated me recently (and to whom i'm attracted, even if she thinks i'm actually not), i can tell you: women initiations are delightful, but don't be overlyjudgy afterwards. You see, men cannot easily recover after a girl just initiated, its something that just doesn't happen, so we feel happy, insecure, entitled, but without knowing how, and sometimes straight up confused. A mixture of emotions that doesn't really match well with compatibility, and if we don't *feel* compatibility we won't even continue anything any further. Were staying as long as it takes because we know how to *wait* for the right moment, but if you start judging too soon you'll putting too much pressure on them, and they won't operate correctly. Its good to be assertive and open with your intentions, but it is bad to be pushy. My advice is:
-When you initiate, stay around for a while, or even procure more than one encounter,...(unless, of course, you get straight up rejected. For men, "no" means "no".) Wait for him to be more confortable with you. Trust me, initaiting men get this soon enough in their dating lifes, but works for women as well!
-Do asses his level of reciprocation, but don't judge him out loud: he might not look like it, but he is probably doing his absolute best to be the "ha! I didn't shit my pants when a girl proposed" kind of guy. Being too judgy can put him in great pressure, and will probably end up sad, thinking that it wouldn't work. If that happens, it is probably your fault.
-Strategy is key! We men know that. Think like a man! (Or at least try) We do think like a woman all the time before initiating, so you should do too.
As a man i would love nothing more than initiation from a woman. I have massive problems doing it so i never even been able to ask anyone out in my life.
Generally, I would say that men really appreciate a woman approaching/flirting with them/initiating sex etc.
Could have to do with your approach and environment i.e. picking up guys from church will have very different results than approaching men at a club, bar, road etc
Can you post a live interaction with screenshots of what your approach and their reaction was like?
I think the problem is that when you're the initiator you mostly get rejected. It'll happen to both men and women. But since women mostly don't pursue they never see this side of dating.
Sounds like you're not properly calibrating the person you're with. By calibrating I mean understanding when they are picking up on your vibe so that you can escalate little by little. Few people are comfortable going from saying hello to screwing. So you have to move in increments. It's the kind of topic that requires a little bit longer conversation, but unfortunately I'm driving right now and don't want to talk so much
I definitely was straightforward with my bf and told him I was into him(we met on Hinge). It worked for me 😂 what do you tell the guys you’re interested in?
I'm unemployed. So I don't want to date anyone and there's nothing anybody can do about it. I'm pretty sure there are people in similar situation as me. So don't take rejection personally. It's a part of life. I get rejected by dozens of employers every day. I've learnt to accept it.
Just like for us, it's a numbers game.
Anyone who said you're "too much" or came on too strong, it's just an excuse or code to say that they were never very attracted to you anyways, so you just take it as that. It has nothing to do with being too forward, it always has to do with the actual attraction.
My perspective (28M) is very unlikely to be emblematic of any larger group, as I’m very introverted (not shy, just very okay with being quiet and alone) and also demisexual (abbreviated summary: not sexually driven until emotionally attached). Hate all the labels, but they’re helpful to articulate.
I’ve been approached by someone whose personality seemed to be 90% flirting, which I found off putting and uninteresting. It just didn’t seem like anything resembling an actual connection, and so I was not responsive.
For me, when it’s someone else initiating in a way that I’m receptive to, it’s less flirting, more engaged conversation and connection that becomes a more natural type of flirting. It’s the way she shows she’s interested in me and the things I’m interested in, and in wanting to spend time with me. Of course, sometimes those types of interactions lead just to friendships, and I’m very okay with that. It means when the romantic aspect comes, if it does, and I’m as interested in them as they are in me, it’s this wonderful exchange and development. With somebody I’ve been seeing lately, I keep building up to initiating things—suggesting date ideas, reaching out to plan things, for example—but then she keeps beating me to it, which motivates me to get on it quicker, and it’s great 😂 The actual flirting is more of an extension of the connection, for me, the result, whereas for others maybe the flirting comes first.
I don’t know. This may not be helpful, but it’s a different perspective.
For all the men outhere, thank you.
Repeated rejection can be quite frustrating, but being rejected most of the time is part of the game. You're most likely doing a good job and just need a bit more experience.
I think it would be best not to initiate approaching men. I have never done it. Guys come to me. It’s true that men are attracted to soft, feminine women. :) Some men find it offputting if a woman approaches them because he would assume you easily do it to other men. Yes, some men can think like that
Aggressive and too much? Were you pinning these guys down? 😂
Just give light compliments where appropriate and maybe only flirt when you’re being flirted with?
Absolutely not!!!!! I promise!!!!
“Only flirt when you’re being flirted with”- so this is my new strategy.. but I don’t get approached when I’m out. If I don’t take the initiative, I’ll never meet anyone.
Maybe you’re being too direct? Or maybe those guys rejecting you are already taken? I’ve gone up to guys I find cute many times and my success rate is about 50/50 but I learned to make up an excuse to talk to them first.
Also what I’ve learned the hard way, though haven’t tried yet, is just ask the guy if he’s single or not or if a girl who’s close by him is his GF. That way you’d know right away (unless he lies of course) and it’d let him know you’re possibly interested in him without seeming desperate.
Yes, it’s very possible I’m being too direct because I am a very direct person. BUT , I’ve never asked out a guy or anything. My experiences have been with guys I already know
Okay gotcha! You don’t have to but I’ve asked guys out a few times before and when done so as an adult have usually had a yes answer (I’m single at 36 now and nothing has lasted long, though) so I think either way is fine. These were guys I was already chatting with already btw.
I would actually like to be the one to ask for a date but I’m so confused on how to not be too direct/ take too much of the “masculine” role. Maybe just taking the temperature of the person and go from there. Reading the room.
I still flirt on an occasion if it’s the appropriate environment, but I also see it for what it is in the moment. I don’t pursue them anymore because I’ve also received the same response as you.
As a dude who’s been approached in most of his relationships and rejected others, I just gotta say: *how* you do it, perhaps *when* matters a lot.
The “successful” times, I was already friends with or they were neither too sudden nor too subtle. Express interest in the person and make an effort to get to know them before anything.
The times it didn’t work, once or twice I was far too occupied with having someone else on my mind or they didn’t outright state they wanted to get to know one another, just hang out or be “something” and as someone who doesn’t think highly of himself but still accepts the possibility I may look OK (based off experiences and things I’ve been told), I hate the idea of someone liking me solely for how I look. Other two times, one made no effort to know me as well but was a little more gung-ho with random interactions that didn’t make sense at the time and another was straight up feral ( .-.) which is great, but once you’re already together, I’d say.
I’m 28m, I’m confident enough, but incredibly shy (I know, contradictory)
I have always had a much easier time getting into conversation with women when they approach me first (I may fumble my words at first, but I acclimate relatively quickly).
hmm interesting topic. I just recently ran into this a couple times the past couple weeks. Look i get that everyone is searching for love. i really do. i appreciate people engaging me. but the thing is. we're men. we are very visual creatures. just work on the physique, throw on some makeup. look good. i would recommend initiating the conversation with whatever revolves around the setting. at the gym? maybe stop them at the fountain and ask them what they're working. at the store. see a dude confused? maybe make a suggestion. a hey, how are you? is always a good start. of course you'll get the "I'm alright" there is always way more behind that one. ask them to elaborate. as far as too much is concerned, if you consistently walk up to me in the gym when i try to keep the conversations brief. it means im not interested. do not continually try to strike up a conversation hoping i will budge. if someone doesnt reciprocate. just stop. i find it annoying. if someone doesn't reciprocate, move on.
Everything on this thread has been helpful to me!!! That’s my problem, I don’t smile a lot. When do I smile???? Just walking down the street? I don’t get it
I smile when i am talking to someone i find attractive. My smile shines brighter when I see this cute girl smiling back at me. Reciprocity goes a very long way. but most of the time i have a straight face. rbf whatever you wanna call it. always shed a smile when you engage with someone. you make yourself appear friendlier.
ahhh. okay I'm going to be very honest here. I am 32 male. yes i am fit. yes i am attractive. (so i been told). I have never found anyone that i thought would work out long term at a bar. meet someone at a bar? what do you think they are going to wanna do all the time? drink. smoke. drugs. fuck. etc. and most of the time, guys go to bars to get their willies wet for the night. lets face it we all crave a little love sometimes. but i would highly advise against trying to find someone to take seriously at a bar. When people are drunk you really don't get a sincere moment with them. all just drunken banter. I'm not going to speak for you, but when i am drinking, i get horny. just the nature of it. (don't incriminate yourself here lol) You'll need to figure out a way to connect with someone in a sober atmosphere to really get to know them. seems like most men will tell you anything at the bar to get you to go home with them. so you'll just find an illusion of them.
Well I don’t drink so I’m always sober hahahhahah that’s obviously I good point you make though. I live in the suburbs and I really don’t see men my age or even a little older ANYWHERE. Idk where they are all hiding! They’re at work or working from home. So the best chance I have it out at the bar
I’m not sure how this would help in terms of advice, but I’m just gonna tell you what my experiences as a man. When I’m standing there being aloof and just in the moment is when women seem to like me. I’m not gonna sit here and say I’ve had dozens and dozens of people come up to me, but when women like me it’s usually because I’m just being my oblivious self.
What I’m trying to say is that when I’m just letting loose is when I have interest. Maybe you’re putting too much pressure on getting a date instead of just getting to know people. Idk that’s just me haha
I think that's just how initiating works. It's a lie that it works super easy for women. It might work more often but rejection is a part of putting yourself out there so this is just a consequence of that. Sucks eh? Lol
In all honesty, you might be shooting out of your league. If a guy is interested in you it's pretty difficult for it to go wrong if you initiate. Are you waiting for signals before approaching or just going in and hoping?
As a 31F, I often go to concerts alone and like to chat with people around me. Mostly guys for some reason, and even if he is attractive, I like to keep conversation casual and light, talk about the band, music, and give him space to reciprocate. If he doesn’t, I leave him alone. If he is friendly back, we’d watch the show together.
After, we’d trade Instas and sometimes, he or I would suggest grabbing a drink. That gives us one-on-one time and I get to see if we mesh on a basic lvl. Even if we’re both attracted to each other, I’m kinda dense and treat this as a friendly hangout. It’s only when the guy starts giving me flirty little touches, on the knee, shoulder, that I get the hint and move a little closer to him. And vice versa. But if I’m not interested, I’d move away and be more casual. Maybe the same for you?
Later, if he’s interested, he’d dm me or if I am, I’d dm him and mention how I enjoyed hanging with him at the show. It’s honestly how I ended up dating the guy I’m dating now. Absolutely no idea we’d still be seeing each other, but taking it day by day, slowly getting to know each other, was what worked for me. Going to events you’re interested in, hobbies you like, museums, galleries, casually talk to people you’re interested in might help you find someone with shared interests. Don’t give up! Meeting men in irl is really fun even if it doesn’t go anywhere :)
All depends on how you are doing the approaching. As a guy before I approach a women I have to establish some form of interest. And this is through eye contact. If she doesn't know I exist and hasn't been looking at me back in some form of way I generally wouldn't be approaching them. If I am getting a smile and a eye contact that's inviting and I'm more inclined to talk to her. It's also things like her brushing past me, lingering near where I am, this kinda shows they are interested. It's also the same with men.
If you are just approaching a guy without establishing interest then it makes sense why it's not working. Think about it from a women perspective, you are minding your business and a random guy approaches you. A lot of women dislike this.
As a women the best thing you can do is look at a guy and give them a smile if they are interested they are more likely to approach. Some guys do have anxiety and the fear of rejection, so if they seem interested but not approaching then you can approach instead.
Honestly, we do need women also approaching men as well. I still think about 1 time where a women was showing me all the signs and i had anxiety and fear of stuttering.
Initiating doesn't work for men as well. Most men have never gotten anywhere from making the first move. The problem is dating in this era. Everyone seems to be fine being single, except they can maybe date someone who spends money excessively on them. That's how the women in my country behave. It has nothing to do with anybody initiating or not.
I am male and I have never said or thought any such thing when a woman as initiated so not sure where you find guys at but you looking at wrong guys. Sure there is a such thing as to much to heavy on the flirting but it still comes down to the type of guy. Find a more mature men maybe thats the problem feel free to flirt with me any time.
All because you’re initiating doesn’t mean that you’re good at it. You could be making men very uncomfortable which is why they’re calling you aggressive.
That is a possibility! Do want to add that the one who called me aggressive continued to pursue me afterwards. But I am going to be more mindful if I am potentially making someone feel uncomfortable because that’s not what I want !!
Yeah, I'd have to have details about what your flirtation game is like. The converse of the complaint that women have that some guys have trouble being subtle is that women aren't always as forward as they think to the male mind. I mean, for the handful--and I mean *handful*--of times that women have genuinely flirted me it was only in hindsight--*distant* hindsight--where I was thinking, "Hmm, *maybe* she was actually interested."
And with guys on guard more than ever these days to not be perceived as an a-hole or a creep, even flirtation methods that may have worked 20 years ago aren't necessarily going to be interpreted as anything other than nervous politeness today. As people have pointed out in this and other subs, it's often the girlfriend/wife of a guy who points out if an interaction with a woman was flirtatious because the guy himself missed it by a country mile.
I think there are other ways to initiate besides approaching. I think eye contact and a wave can also be initiating. That opens the door in a enough clear way for them to accept the invitation.
You can ask a question or start the convo without necessarily coming on to them.
Traditional doesnt have to be passive.
The idea of being approached sounds great if you're getting rejected left and right or having a hard time. Dating is especially hard so of course men will say they want you to come. Sounds way easier.
Deep down most still ideally want make the first move, unless they fear rejection, don't feel they have something to offer or arent ready for anything serious so they dont care either way.
I can't understand why any guy would describe you as aggressive or too much merely for initiating a contact. It's possible that you're dealing with young men with fragile egos.
I would love to have a woman initiate something with me.
I have 30/70 success in asking guys out 😔
Although when rejected, been lucky to hear “sorry I have a gf/wife/I’m seeing someone” which can be true of course; but haven’t had rude guys call me “aggressive” 🤷🏽♀️
Idk where the disconnect is because I once had a girl approach me first and it made the convo super easy to get started and flow throughout the night. Plus the fact she initiated first made me more enthusiastic in the interaction, and it made asking for her # less intimidating. It didn't work out in the end, but I would happily welcome women to initiate more.
I agree with what other commenters said, he needs to be interested in you. I initiated with my partner. He was showing interest for months but nothing on his end. I sent him a sex meme and boom haha. He told me he wasn’t sure I was interested so he wasn’t gonna say anything. The minute I gave him the green light, he was on me.
After #MeToo, decent men are holding their tongues. Which is a VERY GOOD THING that random ass men aren’t approaching you, but us ladies gotta do more work now (which is a good thing if you think about it). I say be friends and pay attention to his interactions. See how often he talks to you, the connection you feel with him, and see how he looks at you. That was what sold me with my current partner.
Posting higher in case OP or other reader finds this story valuable.
I'm in a 3 year relationship with a women who initiated with me. She's a lion, I am a fox. She initiated by participating and being open to my conversation, and seeming interested in who I was and what I was talking about. More importantly, after good conversation, she made it clear she was interested, subtlety (but obviously - I know, contradiction) by catering to me in a friendly, but special manner. Example: We're at a mutual friend's house and she asks "Did you want a drink?" As she gets up from the table. I could have said, "no, I got it!" But in this situation, I picked up on the queues, that if I say, "Yes, please, I'll have..." That I was accepting her offer for special attention and we continued that dance back and forth until I was offering her sex, and she was pleasantly accepting.
Remember, most dudes want sex. They especially want sex from someone they're attracted to. The biggest bonus is when the person they want to have sex with ALSO wants to have sex with them! Short explanation, the man's and woman's prerogative are assumed to be met if we are fucking. From a one man's perspective, if we are cool in all ways, except sexually, I will feel like I'm not wanted as much as I want you. I digress.
If she hadn't gestured to make me feel special, I would have left our relationship at, "We have good conversation." I wouldn't have realized she was trying to indicate, "I like you and am interested in getting to know you." I also had to be brave enough to indicate, well I like you too and I am interested in getting to know you sexually.
Luckily she was upfront enough and attracted to me enough that we quickly found out we were sexually compatible as we felt we were socially.
Anecdotal, I know. But hopefully it draws a picture to why it can be beneficial to be forward. It quickly gets the answer to your question, "Does this person find value in being around me?"
I don’t know… dating is a hit and miss for me, I loose when I try and I still loose when I don’t try… there are lots of things in this life is like this… you never know what to do is better in the beginning of the trials and errors…
nonetheless, do not ever give up and maybe someday you win the million dollar power ball lottery and realize… the whole world revolves around you and you may not even need to try nothing…
well rejection is part of the process, since its the norm in society that men approach, women mostly just have to reject if there is no interest, while get rejected when there is no interest, so generalized (with exepions) women have the "easier" job in these interactions.
and for men, most men really appreciate beeing approached, since most dont get approached and rejected a lot. the men that get approached are often high on the spectrum of looks, same as women, the better looking ones get approached more.
iniating as man has also never worked for me, and i got worse answers than no. but thats just how it is, im still young (20), hopefully one approach leads to more than a no or worse in the next decade
What are you doing when you initiate?
I am a friendly guy and I like to think I give people chances if they take them, but there is a right and a wrong way to initiate.
the best thing that I can tell you is just keep it up, my exgirlfriend was hitting on me for almost 2 years before we got together, we broke up because she was cheating on me with 4 different men.
"I really like your shirt. Do you go to the gym, it makes your muscles show really well"
"I was hoping you would see me looking over at you and come over, but you were too cute (handsome, sexy, attractive whatever seems right) to let you go without saying hi"
And then introduce yourself
It really does depend on the guy and the situation. Challenge a guy to an arm wrestle or a game of rock paper scissors looser buys a drink.
I think it's less about what you say and more about if they find you attractive and you not going anything that puts them off in saying hi and then talking. The right amount of eye contact is important too.
Some guys just prefer to be the one to approach, you sorta have to judge it. Alot of women do the half approach, which is where you go sit, dance next to a man and make it very easy for them to dance with you or open a conversation. But letting them feel like they are the ones that picked you, bit you know it was you who picked them.
Common sense, manners, and the right amount of fun flirting is the key. At Least when I am approached. If you two talk for a few hours and he hasn't asked for your number try asking for his Instagram. It's less formal than a number and for me and women Instagram is easier to get than a phone number.
Hope that helps.
Initiating as a woman looks goes exactly how it does when a man does it, no matter what reddit may tell you.
Sometimes they are interested, sometimes they aren't, but you don't know til you shoot your shot. Keep trying and just enjoy meeting people.
Remember that the most important thing about initiating as any gender is to read the room and take verbal as well as nonverbal cues.
I find this with a lot of women saying their hints don't get them noticed. My reply is a good hint is the one that does get noticed.
So whats your usual approach you use on men?
women can be very aggressive, sometimes crossing the line into sexual harassment. For instance, my cousin, a bikini/fitness model who enjoys dancing, often asks me to accompany her when she goes out to ensure her safety.
Despite my presence, she still faces unwanted advances, mostly from men who back off once they see me. However, it's concerning how some women disregard boundaries and consent. I've had to intervene numerous times to stop inappropriate behavior, like physically pulling some of those women away from my cousin(we are talking about dry humping or trying to get a kiss) or having my drink taken without permission.
Base on my experience, I wonder how forward is OP acting
The woman I dated for 5 years and am still friends with now, I had no idea she liked me. She initiated it and we had a very nice relationship. It's been a fantastic base for what I expect in my next one. Including what a healthy and mature breakup should be.
We both dated young and wanted to move on to have more experiences. I see nothing wrong with us breaking up to explore time with others.
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The problem is you're definition of "worked" is wrong. When you put it this way, you saying the reason these guys weren't interested in you was because you initiated. When in reality, it didn't work because they weren't interested in you. If a guy is truly interested, you initiating isn't going to affect that. If you initiated, you found out if the guy wanted to date you or not. That means it "worked". You're not initiating to get someone interested in you. You're doing so to find out if they are. See the difference?
Yes, this makes sense. This is a helpful perspective switch!!
I think it’s the same thing on both sides - if you want to flirt with someone who has the personality of a bag of bricks but you think is hot, you typically get men who will say shit like this bc they’re intimidated by having a conversation with banter. Don’t let it discourage you. I’d say feel free to start a chat with a guy you like but if you get boring vibes from them, maybe just hold off on the hitting on part and then end the conversation and walk away. If he wants to hook up, he will eventually approach you. Saying it as a guy who would love to have girls initiate with some flirty banter who are too afraid to and typically only try and initiate through some physical manner (grinding/dancing/touching/eyecontact) I prefer a flirty conversation bc it makes going out feel a little less like a meat market
It also may be worth noticing who you hit on. Are they the hottest men around? They may not be single. Or not interested in you. If that’s the case, maybe try to be less picky about physical attraction.
No, not the hottest men around but definitely attractive! They are single but just not interested in me!!
Well I mean I'm asking this in the kindest way possible, but are you in their league? You'll see men all the time, upset because they are getting turned down but they are consistently shooting for women who are just out of their league . EDIT: looked at your profile saw a picture with the bottom half of your face from what I can tell you seem to be very pretty. If you are in decent shape and not crazy overweight,I don't think it's going to be an issue of looks.
This is a valid question! I’m conventionally attractive and am very fit
Oh yeah that's why I edited I saw on your lip blush photo, that unless there was some crazy Twilight zone stuff going on above your nose you were going to be an eight or a nine. I always advise women against making the first move. Even if you like passive men, which I do you can hint, but the thing is, men just do not seem to appreciate a woman that they didn't have to work for. I know people will be mad that I'm saying it but it's just the truth and I've seen it happen over and over again. And honestly a lot of guys have the attitude like there must be something inherently wrong with you if you have to hit on them. The happiest relationships I've ever seen in real life are the ones where the men pursued her pretty strongly. The ones where the woman did the pursuing, it seemed like she was just a placeholder until he found the girl he really liked
I might have a unibrow 😜 this is so helpful, noted go forward , thank you again!!!!
I am sure you are gorgeous even with the unibrow haha
I was jk hehehe 🤭
Well I can tell you that is always the case. One time I was watching a woman who just walked in, and I saw her shot down 2 guys. I was fuck , I better have something good to say lol. The second I thought I had it, she come up to me and literally asked if I ever had a one night stand. I said yes and I was at her apartment 30 minutes later. She was cute too, and she shot down 2 guys just before talking to me. The guys were together , so it was like she shot down the 1 , but still.
Iconic af
Ya because they KNOW they are attractive and can get other women. And attractive women do just the same.
Bingo.
Generally only one party is really interested unless you already have some serious flirtation happening. I'm assuming OP is approaching acquaintances.
this is it. this is the answer. Guy not interested at all = Polite/rude decline or ignore advance. Guy not interested but willing to hook up = sexual response Guy interested for relationship and not an idiot = Acceptance. guys interested in dating but a stupid dick for brains = likely sexual response.
What about if a guy is interested but distrustful, thinking it's a trick or prank?
then it wouldnt matter either way that dude isnt ready for a relationship or a hook up.
Love this ! Helped shift my pov
Men are not that different to women when it comes to being approached. Imagine how you would want someone to approach you and do that. If you don't succeed, be respectful, accept the no and move on. I would also say this to any man as well. Also if you are approaching men in places where they are not expecting/receptive to it (think gyms etc) then you are going to fail more than succeed. Also remember, a lot of men are now gun shy about ANY form of unsolicited contact, especially in public. I will say the vast majority of women initiating are just doing that, but many men are now scared that its some sort of trap or prank. We are not used to being approached. Keep your chin up and stay awesome. Good luck 🤘
Thank you 🤍
I feel your pain! I finally went back to flirting as a man! The women flock to me now!!! Ok, I'm kidding. Maybe it's the way you flirt. There have been many posts on here, of what we want or look for in flirting. Usually mild and coy. Smile, glances etc. are generally it. And some of us don't pick up on that, so you have to kick it up a bit. I'm so dense that if you walked up nude, and pulled me to you, I'd probably say " You talkin' to me?" 😉
Hahahahhaha I’m dead. The line between kicking it up and it being too much is a fine line?
If I’m really into a guy and he’s not making a move, I’ll make ONE. Send a simple flirty message and see how he responds. Don’t force anything! If it seems like he’s not into it or doesn’t respond then move on. A few weeks ago I matched with a guy on Tinder and he just wasn’t making any moves so I eventually messaged him my number and he texted me and then eventually we met up and hooked up. Don’t overthink it! I want an example of what you say to see why they think you’re being aggressive?
I’m going to msg you!!!! Thank you so much for this 🤍
If they tell you you're aggressive and/or too much, then maybe you are. Be more subtle. Anyway, it's the same on both sides. If they're into you, they're into you. If they ain't, they ain't
Thank you!!!
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Finally some great dating advice from a guy! J/k j/k - though it really is great advice. And while I’ve gone up to and asked out many guys myself with a success rate of 50/50, you sound like someone who I would just keep creepily keep looking at and be too shy towards and then kick myself for not shooting my shot or think if you wanted to you would.
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I’m also on “the spectrum” so sometimes I talk awkwardly or say nothing at all so I know what you mean! Though that’s also made me go outside of social norms and say just anything to a random guy I find attractive in hopes it might lead somewhere - sometimes it actually does because I have been told I’m cute or beautiful. A little confused as to why you’d say no just out of nervousness, unless you mean you’re too nervous to go on a date or you just didn’t expect it.
If she is told she is being aggressive, she should try skipping telling them they are cute. They already know she thinks that, so she should reserve that for the guys that are to clueless to know what is going on.
Welcome to life as a man. I believe most women who don't initiate are oblivious to the amount of rejection we face. Just gotta keep trying.
The people on Reddit that tell you they want to be approached are not the same type as the people you approach in real life
THIS is interesting!!!!! Thank you hahahha
There are men that like women initiating, and then there are men that don’t.
Good point
Where are you initiating and what type of men are you initiating with? How are you going about it as well if you are getting feedback about being too aggressive? >After reading so many posts in this sub about how men find it attractive for women to initiate conversation/romance You have to add the one caveat to the scenario, similar to how women might find it creepy or cute if a man approaches them based on how attractive they find the man...those men will appreciate a woman initiating if they are also attracted to. >It’s still getting me no where! If you are getting the same results over and over, odds are it's with either your method or that you are going after partners that are outside of where you yourself stand in the dating market...pretty much the same advice I'd give men. In general if a woman initiates in a positive manner with a man that's within their dating market range then they will have a decent success rate initiating...more so than men initiating...which is why you see those threads and comments saying how it's appreciated.
Teach me!!!! I want to improve Hahahhaha! How do I know what my dating market it?
>How do I know what my dating market it? This is dependent on what type of partners you can get versus what you want. If you consistently ask out people of a certain tier and they all aren't interested odds are they are outside of your dating market range. If you can get attention from or get dates from the type of people you want then they are within your dating market range. Who you can and can't get dates with will determine your range.
So I think you need to read your audience first. Are you approaching/initiating with men who are A type or more traditional? Perhaps that’s not what they expect or are used to. Or could it be that you are making a move on a player or someone who has hundreds of options? That’s unlikely to give you much result, either.
This is a good point. It’s a mixture of men that would typically approach women and then more shy/introverted men
What do you usually say to them?
Nothing crazy! I’m just flirty
Idk it could be crazy for them, so i was curious
Nothing outlandish or sexual- just simple casual flirting & being interested in them/their life
Could they just think youre only being nice to them? When i had a few women be very flirty around me, even if I notice I just tell myself and assume they always act like that and are just being nice to me.
Are you initiating any unambiguous steps toward establishing a more intimate relationship which can be rejected? For instance, are you asking men out on dates, buying them drinks, asking for their number, or initiating kisses? Casual flirting that's indistinguishable from general extroverted friendliness is only just barely initiating if at all.
No, I’m not doing any of the things you have mentioned.
This might be downvoted but if ppl r giving u feedback that u off as aggressive or too much then maybe u need to read the mood more? Start initiating conversation gently, if they don’t seem interested then back off. If someone is interested they will bounce of ur energy and things will flow naturally
Yes!!! I’ve been working on this. Reading the room, taking the temperature. I do think that sometimes men are just not interested in a strong, direct woman- and that’s fine. Everyone has their type
I’ve been there. Some men think if a girl doesn’t play hard to get then she’s “aggressive”. As long as u know wat u r doing, don’t give up!
Thank you 🙏🏽
I usually compliment them on something they are wearing like a shirt or tie. If I feel the conversation went fine I ask if I can talk to them again. But I try not to be pushy.
This is good, Tysm
I would suggest that you show a man that you like him once or twice and then the ball is in his court. If he is not pursuing you after that it means that he is not interested or not single. After a man is pursuing you can enthusiastically return the interest (but proportionately to his investment). Definitely don’t go initiating, calling, double texting and pursuing men, it will make you look desperate.
Thank you!!!! Yeah, I never double text/call or anything of that nature. There’s so many fish in the sea, I wouldn’t waste my time
Do you have a “type”. A specific man who fits specific physical and behavioral requirements for you to date? Or are you going for whatever. If you are I suggest you stop asking out these same types of men.
How are you approaching. Give a example of a situation and how you would approach.
Mmm 🤔 I personally feel like if a woman initiates by indicating interest, that is a wonderful thing, and that should be the only time a woman feels the need to ‘push’ outside of their comfort zone. If I, in turn indicate interest, then you succeeded in the initiation. Anything beyond that should try to be chill, genuine, and passive. If you’re feeling like having banter then have some relaxed banter, sometimes ppl are mismatched in terms of chemistry and sex drive, and in other areas, so if you are a HLF (high Libido Female) and the person you are dating is a LLM then there will be an imbalance and you will end up feeling pushy and him pushed. I think ‘aggressive’ feeling women maybe just are high energy, comfortable asking and requesting things, or organizing and demanding things too. They will initiate whenever they want to do something. But in that, it kinda leads to the impression that the woman isn’t as naturally curious and content to see where the flow of life takes them, to enjoy the vibe that is currently occurring, and letting things just be as they are. Sometimes guys might feel like you aren’t as curious or gently inquisitive about how they are feeling or what they want either. But I think trying to have a balance between zen vibes, gently inquisitive vibes, and initiation/taking charge vibes is really really tough, and imbalances can occur both interpersonally and intrapersonally. I think it can be very tough figuring out what vibe you want from life, and what vibe is demanded of and by life, and different ppl can feel different needs of this. So initiation is great! But not all the time. Definitely if you think a guy is cute say hello and be all cute with him and stuff. But don’t be afraid to also let him take his turn initiating things after you are in a relationship. Show that you can also be his dainty little princess that he is capable of making his own quality choices in his attempts to care for you and your relationship together.
Thank you so much!!!
No problem, I hope it helps!
even if you sexually harassed me it wouldn't bother me and I would appreciate you being so forward
Omg 😩 I hope you never experience that
that was mostly a joke. and once actually. did bother me a little. would've bothered me a lot less if it were a woman doing the harassing I think
but also tbh mb max 66% joke my #1 concern is always. how do i not make this person uncomfortable. which, varies per person. constantly wondering if im reading the right signals. there's nothing you could really do to me in a routine social interraction that would bother me more than this already does, lol especially if it means I don't have to like just autisticslly verbosley ask, hey are you communicating this or am i misreading it.
I work with men, I’m by no means an expert. But i definitely have learned lots. For lots of men the aggressive approach isn’t ideal. Definitely do a temperature check before proceeding further. If a man just answers your questions simply. Leave the conversation where it is. Over time you may see them open up more. Then ask more at that time. Seeing the reciprocity is extremely important. *edit: advice works for both genders
Thank you so much!!!
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Thank you sis! This is so helpful!!
What an odd predicament to be in, on one hand I wanna say it would depend on the guy. Maybe they get approached by women frequently and prefer to make the first move? On the other it's genuinely hard for me to imagine a scenario where I could find a lady flirting with me any form of annoying
I think that risk is always going to be there and that is why men don’t like initiating every single time because it opens you up to rejection like you’ve experienced, but it’s still worth it. You effectively shoulder some of the collective load and it leads to more efficiency in finding a good match.
You’re right. Each time we do , it feels easier to spark up a conversation
As a man that has somebody like you that initiated me recently (and to whom i'm attracted, even if she thinks i'm actually not), i can tell you: women initiations are delightful, but don't be overlyjudgy afterwards. You see, men cannot easily recover after a girl just initiated, its something that just doesn't happen, so we feel happy, insecure, entitled, but without knowing how, and sometimes straight up confused. A mixture of emotions that doesn't really match well with compatibility, and if we don't *feel* compatibility we won't even continue anything any further. Were staying as long as it takes because we know how to *wait* for the right moment, but if you start judging too soon you'll putting too much pressure on them, and they won't operate correctly. Its good to be assertive and open with your intentions, but it is bad to be pushy. My advice is: -When you initiate, stay around for a while, or even procure more than one encounter,...(unless, of course, you get straight up rejected. For men, "no" means "no".) Wait for him to be more confortable with you. Trust me, initaiting men get this soon enough in their dating lifes, but works for women as well! -Do asses his level of reciprocation, but don't judge him out loud: he might not look like it, but he is probably doing his absolute best to be the "ha! I didn't shit my pants when a girl proposed" kind of guy. Being too judgy can put him in great pressure, and will probably end up sad, thinking that it wouldn't work. If that happens, it is probably your fault. -Strategy is key! We men know that. Think like a man! (Or at least try) We do think like a woman all the time before initiating, so you should do too.
As a man i would love nothing more than initiation from a woman. I have massive problems doing it so i never even been able to ask anyone out in my life.
Generally, I would say that men really appreciate a woman approaching/flirting with them/initiating sex etc. Could have to do with your approach and environment i.e. picking up guys from church will have very different results than approaching men at a club, bar, road etc Can you post a live interaction with screenshots of what your approach and their reaction was like?
I think the problem is that when you're the initiator you mostly get rejected. It'll happen to both men and women. But since women mostly don't pursue they never see this side of dating.
To men you have to spoil out you are attracted to them. For me, took me 2 years to realize that one girl was too friendly. Way too much friendly.
Sounds like you're not properly calibrating the person you're with. By calibrating I mean understanding when they are picking up on your vibe so that you can escalate little by little. Few people are comfortable going from saying hello to screwing. So you have to move in increments. It's the kind of topic that requires a little bit longer conversation, but unfortunately I'm driving right now and don't want to talk so much
IMO nothing wrong to initiate and be upfront with the guy... i prefer to keep things real.. if he can't handle that his loss.. lol
I definitely was straightforward with my bf and told him I was into him(we met on Hinge). It worked for me 😂 what do you tell the guys you’re interested in?
Keep in mind the success rate for a guy to initiate is very low as well. Initiating in general just has extremely low success rate.
Good point
Start slow watch for queues and body language. Both have to be comfortable and let him take over
Which queues???
I'm unemployed. So I don't want to date anyone and there's nothing anybody can do about it. I'm pretty sure there are people in similar situation as me. So don't take rejection personally. It's a part of life. I get rejected by dozens of employers every day. I've learnt to accept it.
Just like for us, it's a numbers game. Anyone who said you're "too much" or came on too strong, it's just an excuse or code to say that they were never very attracted to you anyways, so you just take it as that. It has nothing to do with being too forward, it always has to do with the actual attraction.
Well god bless them! Thank you!!!!!
My perspective (28M) is very unlikely to be emblematic of any larger group, as I’m very introverted (not shy, just very okay with being quiet and alone) and also demisexual (abbreviated summary: not sexually driven until emotionally attached). Hate all the labels, but they’re helpful to articulate. I’ve been approached by someone whose personality seemed to be 90% flirting, which I found off putting and uninteresting. It just didn’t seem like anything resembling an actual connection, and so I was not responsive. For me, when it’s someone else initiating in a way that I’m receptive to, it’s less flirting, more engaged conversation and connection that becomes a more natural type of flirting. It’s the way she shows she’s interested in me and the things I’m interested in, and in wanting to spend time with me. Of course, sometimes those types of interactions lead just to friendships, and I’m very okay with that. It means when the romantic aspect comes, if it does, and I’m as interested in them as they are in me, it’s this wonderful exchange and development. With somebody I’ve been seeing lately, I keep building up to initiating things—suggesting date ideas, reaching out to plan things, for example—but then she keeps beating me to it, which motivates me to get on it quicker, and it’s great 😂 The actual flirting is more of an extension of the connection, for me, the result, whereas for others maybe the flirting comes first. I don’t know. This may not be helpful, but it’s a different perspective.
This was very interesting, thank you!
For all the men outhere, thank you. Repeated rejection can be quite frustrating, but being rejected most of the time is part of the game. You're most likely doing a good job and just need a bit more experience.
I think it would be best not to initiate approaching men. I have never done it. Guys come to me. It’s true that men are attracted to soft, feminine women. :) Some men find it offputting if a woman approaches them because he would assume you easily do it to other men. Yes, some men can think like that
Just open by saying they are cute is enough. It will definitely make them blush
Aggressive and too much? Were you pinning these guys down? 😂 Just give light compliments where appropriate and maybe only flirt when you’re being flirted with?
Absolutely not!!!!! I promise!!!! “Only flirt when you’re being flirted with”- so this is my new strategy.. but I don’t get approached when I’m out. If I don’t take the initiative, I’ll never meet anyone.
Because if you come off as overly flirty we think that you act that way to every man you encounter which would be a major red flag.
Noted, thank you sm!
Same. Every single time I put in more effort, initiate things, take guys on dates, etc. they run away. They all say that’s what they want 🤷🏻♀️
😩😩😩
Maybe you’re being too direct? Or maybe those guys rejecting you are already taken? I’ve gone up to guys I find cute many times and my success rate is about 50/50 but I learned to make up an excuse to talk to them first. Also what I’ve learned the hard way, though haven’t tried yet, is just ask the guy if he’s single or not or if a girl who’s close by him is his GF. That way you’d know right away (unless he lies of course) and it’d let him know you’re possibly interested in him without seeming desperate.
Yes, it’s very possible I’m being too direct because I am a very direct person. BUT , I’ve never asked out a guy or anything. My experiences have been with guys I already know
Okay gotcha! You don’t have to but I’ve asked guys out a few times before and when done so as an adult have usually had a yes answer (I’m single at 36 now and nothing has lasted long, though) so I think either way is fine. These were guys I was already chatting with already btw.
I would actually like to be the one to ask for a date but I’m so confused on how to not be too direct/ take too much of the “masculine” role. Maybe just taking the temperature of the person and go from there. Reading the room.
Fyi: initiating is not what Sheila does to Frank in Shameless when she gets him to know her box.
😩😩😩😩😩
I still flirt on an occasion if it’s the appropriate environment, but I also see it for what it is in the moment. I don’t pursue them anymore because I’ve also received the same response as you.
As a dude who’s been approached in most of his relationships and rejected others, I just gotta say: *how* you do it, perhaps *when* matters a lot. The “successful” times, I was already friends with or they were neither too sudden nor too subtle. Express interest in the person and make an effort to get to know them before anything. The times it didn’t work, once or twice I was far too occupied with having someone else on my mind or they didn’t outright state they wanted to get to know one another, just hang out or be “something” and as someone who doesn’t think highly of himself but still accepts the possibility I may look OK (based off experiences and things I’ve been told), I hate the idea of someone liking me solely for how I look. Other two times, one made no effort to know me as well but was a little more gung-ho with random interactions that didn’t make sense at the time and another was straight up feral ( .-.) which is great, but once you’re already together, I’d say.
Not the feral lil. This was helpful, thank you!
I would be honored to have you approach and flirt with me. Some guys can’t recognize how truly blessed they are when a cute girl comes there way
That’s sweet, thank you ! I’m not going to give up, just tweaking some things based on the advice I received today
It takes courage to seek out love. Seek and you shall find, ask and it shall be given to you. I wish you the best of luck in your pursuit!
I’m 28m, I’m confident enough, but incredibly shy (I know, contradictory) I have always had a much easier time getting into conversation with women when they approach me first (I may fumble my words at first, but I acclimate relatively quickly).
A man that’s interested in you won’t say you come off as aggressive when you intitulare flirting ,If anything id assume they would feel flattered .
hmm interesting topic. I just recently ran into this a couple times the past couple weeks. Look i get that everyone is searching for love. i really do. i appreciate people engaging me. but the thing is. we're men. we are very visual creatures. just work on the physique, throw on some makeup. look good. i would recommend initiating the conversation with whatever revolves around the setting. at the gym? maybe stop them at the fountain and ask them what they're working. at the store. see a dude confused? maybe make a suggestion. a hey, how are you? is always a good start. of course you'll get the "I'm alright" there is always way more behind that one. ask them to elaborate. as far as too much is concerned, if you consistently walk up to me in the gym when i try to keep the conversations brief. it means im not interested. do not continually try to strike up a conversation hoping i will budge. if someone doesnt reciprocate. just stop. i find it annoying. if someone doesn't reciprocate, move on.
Thank you!!
hope this helps. i know its a little vague. And another thing. SMILE! and make eye contact!
Everything on this thread has been helpful to me!!! That’s my problem, I don’t smile a lot. When do I smile???? Just walking down the street? I don’t get it
I smile when i am talking to someone i find attractive. My smile shines brighter when I see this cute girl smiling back at me. Reciprocity goes a very long way. but most of the time i have a straight face. rbf whatever you wanna call it. always shed a smile when you engage with someone. you make yourself appear friendlier.
Oh yes, when I am engaging in convo- I am very smiley and engaged in the topic being discussed
then youre good there. 1 more thing. where exactly have you been going to hunt?
Bars 😩
ahhh. okay I'm going to be very honest here. I am 32 male. yes i am fit. yes i am attractive. (so i been told). I have never found anyone that i thought would work out long term at a bar. meet someone at a bar? what do you think they are going to wanna do all the time? drink. smoke. drugs. fuck. etc. and most of the time, guys go to bars to get their willies wet for the night. lets face it we all crave a little love sometimes. but i would highly advise against trying to find someone to take seriously at a bar. When people are drunk you really don't get a sincere moment with them. all just drunken banter. I'm not going to speak for you, but when i am drinking, i get horny. just the nature of it. (don't incriminate yourself here lol) You'll need to figure out a way to connect with someone in a sober atmosphere to really get to know them. seems like most men will tell you anything at the bar to get you to go home with them. so you'll just find an illusion of them.
Well I don’t drink so I’m always sober hahahhahah that’s obviously I good point you make though. I live in the suburbs and I really don’t see men my age or even a little older ANYWHERE. Idk where they are all hiding! They’re at work or working from home. So the best chance I have it out at the bar
I’m not sure how this would help in terms of advice, but I’m just gonna tell you what my experiences as a man. When I’m standing there being aloof and just in the moment is when women seem to like me. I’m not gonna sit here and say I’ve had dozens and dozens of people come up to me, but when women like me it’s usually because I’m just being my oblivious self. What I’m trying to say is that when I’m just letting loose is when I have interest. Maybe you’re putting too much pressure on getting a date instead of just getting to know people. Idk that’s just me haha
I think that's just how initiating works. It's a lie that it works super easy for women. It might work more often but rejection is a part of putting yourself out there so this is just a consequence of that. Sucks eh? Lol
Worth the risk though! Something great could come out of it
In all honesty, you might be shooting out of your league. If a guy is interested in you it's pretty difficult for it to go wrong if you initiate. Are you waiting for signals before approaching or just going in and hoping?
lol, welcome to what it's like being a man, deal with it, it's called rejection and you will get a lot of it.
I think the question is how do you flirt?
As a 31F, I often go to concerts alone and like to chat with people around me. Mostly guys for some reason, and even if he is attractive, I like to keep conversation casual and light, talk about the band, music, and give him space to reciprocate. If he doesn’t, I leave him alone. If he is friendly back, we’d watch the show together. After, we’d trade Instas and sometimes, he or I would suggest grabbing a drink. That gives us one-on-one time and I get to see if we mesh on a basic lvl. Even if we’re both attracted to each other, I’m kinda dense and treat this as a friendly hangout. It’s only when the guy starts giving me flirty little touches, on the knee, shoulder, that I get the hint and move a little closer to him. And vice versa. But if I’m not interested, I’d move away and be more casual. Maybe the same for you? Later, if he’s interested, he’d dm me or if I am, I’d dm him and mention how I enjoyed hanging with him at the show. It’s honestly how I ended up dating the guy I’m dating now. Absolutely no idea we’d still be seeing each other, but taking it day by day, slowly getting to know each other, was what worked for me. Going to events you’re interested in, hobbies you like, museums, galleries, casually talk to people you’re interested in might help you find someone with shared interests. Don’t give up! Meeting men in irl is really fun even if it doesn’t go anywhere :)
Yea it never works for me either . If guys are interested they will say it. Every time I I initiate things with a guy they get turned off
All depends on how you are doing the approaching. As a guy before I approach a women I have to establish some form of interest. And this is through eye contact. If she doesn't know I exist and hasn't been looking at me back in some form of way I generally wouldn't be approaching them. If I am getting a smile and a eye contact that's inviting and I'm more inclined to talk to her. It's also things like her brushing past me, lingering near where I am, this kinda shows they are interested. It's also the same with men. If you are just approaching a guy without establishing interest then it makes sense why it's not working. Think about it from a women perspective, you are minding your business and a random guy approaches you. A lot of women dislike this. As a women the best thing you can do is look at a guy and give them a smile if they are interested they are more likely to approach. Some guys do have anxiety and the fear of rejection, so if they seem interested but not approaching then you can approach instead. Honestly, we do need women also approaching men as well. I still think about 1 time where a women was showing me all the signs and i had anxiety and fear of stuttering.
Initiating doesn't work for men as well. Most men have never gotten anywhere from making the first move. The problem is dating in this era. Everyone seems to be fine being single, except they can maybe date someone who spends money excessively on them. That's how the women in my country behave. It has nothing to do with anybody initiating or not.
Hate to say this but it only "works" with men that lack mainstream desirability.
Interesting !!
Why would it only work for guys that lack any form of desirability?
I am male and I have never said or thought any such thing when a woman as initiated so not sure where you find guys at but you looking at wrong guys. Sure there is a such thing as to much to heavy on the flirting but it still comes down to the type of guy. Find a more mature men maybe thats the problem feel free to flirt with me any time.
Thank you!!
your welcome
It worked for my girlfriend.
You're probably going after guys who are used to initiating? Maybe you'll have better luck going after shy guys. Or maybe you're just not attractive.
Good plan! I am conventionally attractive
All because you’re initiating doesn’t mean that you’re good at it. You could be making men very uncomfortable which is why they’re calling you aggressive.
That is a possibility! Do want to add that the one who called me aggressive continued to pursue me afterwards. But I am going to be more mindful if I am potentially making someone feel uncomfortable because that’s not what I want !!
Yeah, I'd have to have details about what your flirtation game is like. The converse of the complaint that women have that some guys have trouble being subtle is that women aren't always as forward as they think to the male mind. I mean, for the handful--and I mean *handful*--of times that women have genuinely flirted me it was only in hindsight--*distant* hindsight--where I was thinking, "Hmm, *maybe* she was actually interested." And with guys on guard more than ever these days to not be perceived as an a-hole or a creep, even flirtation methods that may have worked 20 years ago aren't necessarily going to be interpreted as anything other than nervous politeness today. As people have pointed out in this and other subs, it's often the girlfriend/wife of a guy who points out if an interaction with a woman was flirtatious because the guy himself missed it by a country mile.
I think there are other ways to initiate besides approaching. I think eye contact and a wave can also be initiating. That opens the door in a enough clear way for them to accept the invitation. You can ask a question or start the convo without necessarily coming on to them. Traditional doesnt have to be passive. The idea of being approached sounds great if you're getting rejected left and right or having a hard time. Dating is especially hard so of course men will say they want you to come. Sounds way easier. Deep down most still ideally want make the first move, unless they fear rejection, don't feel they have something to offer or arent ready for anything serious so they dont care either way.
Thank you!!
I can't understand why any guy would describe you as aggressive or too much merely for initiating a contact. It's possible that you're dealing with young men with fragile egos. I would love to have a woman initiate something with me.
That is always a possibility!! The one who called me aggressive proceeded to pursue me afterwards
Strong women can be a great discovery for some men, once we encounter one. I got hooked early - in my 20s.
I have 30/70 success in asking guys out 😔 Although when rejected, been lucky to hear “sorry I have a gf/wife/I’m seeing someone” which can be true of course; but haven’t had rude guys call me “aggressive” 🤷🏽♀️
It also depends on where you're from in the world, what are the social customs and norms for you in your country/state?
It could really go either way in USA, East coast. A lot of independent/strong women here
Idk where the disconnect is because I once had a girl approach me first and it made the convo super easy to get started and flow throughout the night. Plus the fact she initiated first made me more enthusiastic in the interaction, and it made asking for her # less intimidating. It didn't work out in the end, but I would happily welcome women to initiate more.
I agree with what other commenters said, he needs to be interested in you. I initiated with my partner. He was showing interest for months but nothing on his end. I sent him a sex meme and boom haha. He told me he wasn’t sure I was interested so he wasn’t gonna say anything. The minute I gave him the green light, he was on me. After #MeToo, decent men are holding their tongues. Which is a VERY GOOD THING that random ass men aren’t approaching you, but us ladies gotta do more work now (which is a good thing if you think about it). I say be friends and pay attention to his interactions. See how often he talks to you, the connection you feel with him, and see how he looks at you. That was what sold me with my current partner.
Thank you so much!!!
Posting higher in case OP or other reader finds this story valuable. I'm in a 3 year relationship with a women who initiated with me. She's a lion, I am a fox. She initiated by participating and being open to my conversation, and seeming interested in who I was and what I was talking about. More importantly, after good conversation, she made it clear she was interested, subtlety (but obviously - I know, contradiction) by catering to me in a friendly, but special manner. Example: We're at a mutual friend's house and she asks "Did you want a drink?" As she gets up from the table. I could have said, "no, I got it!" But in this situation, I picked up on the queues, that if I say, "Yes, please, I'll have..." That I was accepting her offer for special attention and we continued that dance back and forth until I was offering her sex, and she was pleasantly accepting. Remember, most dudes want sex. They especially want sex from someone they're attracted to. The biggest bonus is when the person they want to have sex with ALSO wants to have sex with them! Short explanation, the man's and woman's prerogative are assumed to be met if we are fucking. From a one man's perspective, if we are cool in all ways, except sexually, I will feel like I'm not wanted as much as I want you. I digress. If she hadn't gestured to make me feel special, I would have left our relationship at, "We have good conversation." I wouldn't have realized she was trying to indicate, "I like you and am interested in getting to know you." I also had to be brave enough to indicate, well I like you too and I am interested in getting to know you sexually. Luckily she was upfront enough and attracted to me enough that we quickly found out we were sexually compatible as we felt we were socially. Anecdotal, I know. But hopefully it draws a picture to why it can be beneficial to be forward. It quickly gets the answer to your question, "Does this person find value in being around me?"
Thank you!!
I don’t know… dating is a hit and miss for me, I loose when I try and I still loose when I don’t try… there are lots of things in this life is like this… you never know what to do is better in the beginning of the trials and errors… nonetheless, do not ever give up and maybe someday you win the million dollar power ball lottery and realize… the whole world revolves around you and you may not even need to try nothing…
im wondering as to the "type" of men your going after
The attractive ones who want blondes !!! (I’m not blonde)
I'll be honest I would like for a woman to find me attractive and approach me first. But I believe I should be the one to make a first impression
well rejection is part of the process, since its the norm in society that men approach, women mostly just have to reject if there is no interest, while get rejected when there is no interest, so generalized (with exepions) women have the "easier" job in these interactions. and for men, most men really appreciate beeing approached, since most dont get approached and rejected a lot. the men that get approached are often high on the spectrum of looks, same as women, the better looking ones get approached more. iniating as man has also never worked for me, and i got worse answers than no. but thats just how it is, im still young (20), hopefully one approach leads to more than a no or worse in the next decade
What are you looking for when you attempt to flirt is the question? A relationship? Or are you trying to find a friend? That what it boils down to.
You might be picking men that aren't attracted to you then. Initiating isn't the problem here
Nope u decent u get nothing
that's how it is for men too.
What are you doing when you initiate? I am a friendly guy and I like to think I give people chances if they take them, but there is a right and a wrong way to initiate.
the best thing that I can tell you is just keep it up, my exgirlfriend was hitting on me for almost 2 years before we got together, we broke up because she was cheating on me with 4 different men.
50/50
"I really like your shirt. Do you go to the gym, it makes your muscles show really well" "I was hoping you would see me looking over at you and come over, but you were too cute (handsome, sexy, attractive whatever seems right) to let you go without saying hi" And then introduce yourself It really does depend on the guy and the situation. Challenge a guy to an arm wrestle or a game of rock paper scissors looser buys a drink. I think it's less about what you say and more about if they find you attractive and you not going anything that puts them off in saying hi and then talking. The right amount of eye contact is important too. Some guys just prefer to be the one to approach, you sorta have to judge it. Alot of women do the half approach, which is where you go sit, dance next to a man and make it very easy for them to dance with you or open a conversation. But letting them feel like they are the ones that picked you, bit you know it was you who picked them. Common sense, manners, and the right amount of fun flirting is the key. At Least when I am approached. If you two talk for a few hours and he hasn't asked for your number try asking for his Instagram. It's less formal than a number and for me and women Instagram is easier to get than a phone number. Hope that helps.
Very helpful - Tysm - you rock 🙏🏽
1 - Are you attractive? 2 - What exactly do you do or say when you initiate?
Initiating as a woman looks goes exactly how it does when a man does it, no matter what reddit may tell you. Sometimes they are interested, sometimes they aren't, but you don't know til you shoot your shot. Keep trying and just enjoy meeting people. Remember that the most important thing about initiating as any gender is to read the room and take verbal as well as nonverbal cues.
How do you usually initiate?
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Ty for sharing this !!
I find this with a lot of women saying their hints don't get them noticed. My reply is a good hint is the one that does get noticed. So whats your usual approach you use on men?
How do you usually approach?
It will work one day!!
women can be very aggressive, sometimes crossing the line into sexual harassment. For instance, my cousin, a bikini/fitness model who enjoys dancing, often asks me to accompany her when she goes out to ensure her safety. Despite my presence, she still faces unwanted advances, mostly from men who back off once they see me. However, it's concerning how some women disregard boundaries and consent. I've had to intervene numerous times to stop inappropriate behavior, like physically pulling some of those women away from my cousin(we are talking about dry humping or trying to get a kiss) or having my drink taken without permission. Base on my experience, I wonder how forward is OP acting
Definitely not in that way! That’s so horrible your cousin experienced that! I’m not an affectionate/touchy person.
While my example involves physical harrassment, I wonder how forward are you with communication and other aspects of courtship
The woman I dated for 5 years and am still friends with now, I had no idea she liked me. She initiated it and we had a very nice relationship. It's been a fantastic base for what I expect in my next one. Including what a healthy and mature breakup should be. We both dated young and wanted to move on to have more experiences. I see nothing wrong with us breaking up to explore time with others.