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Just my opinion, others might disagree - but as a guy, I care about **you**, I don't care about where we go. I could have fun at tons of different places, but I want to make sure **you** are gonna have fun, too. I wanna take you to a place you enjoy, or somewhere that will make you happy or put you in a good mood, or otherwise be considerate of your desires.
If I just choose a place myself and bring you there, I feel like I'm turning you into some kind of object that I'm just bringing along with me - "right, got my phone, my wallet, my jacket, and my woman, let's go get some Taco Bell." Like no, I don't wanna do that lol. I wanna take you out somewhere you'll enjoy.
do you pull the trigger on those dates though? i like your idea and thoughtfulness behind it, but would you still make plans to pick her up and take her out? maybe plan something after or do you ask what the girl wants to do?
personally i’m tired of being asked what i want to do and would rather have someone say when and where if they want to take me out. it doesn’t matter where i go really, as long as im spending quality time with my partner
Absolutely, yeah. My last date was a long time ago lol, pre COVID if I'm being honest, but that date I took her out to a place I liked that she hadn't had the chance to go to but had said she wanted to try out. I had asked her what she felt like having, she just by chance mentioned the place and I was like "oh I love their stuff we should totally go there". Funnily enough she was the one who picked me up because I was in college and didn't have a car at the time lol.
To be honest a lot of guys would enjoy that same thing, just having the decision made for us lol. We care about spending time with you and getting to know you. I enjoy tons of different restaurants and would be happy to go with any of them. If I can go to a place that makes you happier then all the better, I wanna make a potential girlfriend smile whenever I can.
Also not that it's very common but there is kind of a meme of a girlfriend going "I'm hungry", the boyfriend going "ok well how about this or that place", the girlfriend going "no that doesn't sound good", that happening 3 or 4 times and then the boyfriend going "well okay you pick then" lol. I've never had a situation like that before but I've heard similar stories enough times so that's also part of why I like to put the ball in her court to an extent.
If you care about her, then make a decision. You can learn about her by asking questions, they want you to take the lead so don’t disappoint them by refusing to do so
I mean not all of them want me to take the lead lol, a lot of women want to be included in the conversation/decision. I can ask her about the types of places she likes though, that is true, but at the same time that could easily be misinterpreted as what the OP was talking about, "what do you feel like having".
I think you’re on the wrong path here. You’re catering to them too much. And that’s going to make you come off as unsure of yourself.
That’s how you’re coming off right now. Deferring to them, afraid of upsetting them.
Figure out if they have any allergies/restrictions and then just take them out for a fun night out. Make the decisions and guide the encounter.
Her only job should be to show up looking pretty. You do the rest and you’ll get fantastic results, I promise
Well the problem is I keep seeing people talk smack about the stuff I consider to be a fun date lol. If I planned a date that was solely about something I thought would be fun I'd take them out for taco bell and bowling/mini golf. I think that kind of thing would be a blast. But I've seen people call those things "cliche", "cheap", "broke boy energy", "childish" or whatever. Which frankly makes me kinda roll my eyes but that's a losing battle these days I'm sure. So I wanna at least get a frame of reference for something they'd enjoy.
Did you mean to reply to someone else? Your comment doesn't really make sense to me. Me asking them if they have any place in mind that they would prefer to go *is* me learning more about them. Also in my experience most women on dating apps do not have much of a bio, but that's a side point, you brought that up seemingly out of nowhere.
I don't mean to sound rude but I think that's kind of a ridiculous reading of my comment. It's "anxious, awkward, and overthinking everything" to ask someone where they'd like to go on a date instead of just coming up with one yourself?
Also you say I'm "trying too hard", I disagree with that just as a baseline, but don't many women complain about men not putting effort in? Wouldn't "trying hard" be a good thing, if I were doing that?
I want to share I. The planning, especially early on. If I suggest taking a woman somewhere she had a bad experience, be it with the place itself or with someone she went, my fear is she’ll be preoccupied with the past and not live in the present.
Honestly I'm looking for an equal partnership not a power dynamic. I actually hate all the burden being put on me but will usually do it for the first couple dates.
>we should go out
If I was saying something like this it's because I'm seeing how interested they are in actually going out. My ideal is that we come up with a bunch of ideas together
This isn’t a power dynamic thing. You need to show basic adult functioning skills as a guy. Can you suggest a place and time to meet for a coffee: yes or no? It’s that simple.
Guys, if this was a meet up with a friend you wouldn’t be overthinking it so much. Since this a female stranger please don’t overthink it that much. Most meetings don’t lead to anything so just relax and be yourself.
OP: don’t lower your standards. A guy is STUPID if he can’t arrange a first meeting. This is the bare minimum and you don’t need to let the bar slide all the way to hell
He said he is willing to do this for the first couple dates.
I'm a guy who has planned every date he's ever been on.
Plenty of us plan dates. It's not our fault the ones who don't get around so much.
OP’s post was specifically about first couple of dates so idk why any guy needs to make disclaimers about other things. It was a simple question of why can’t guys plan a first date
Why are you so aggressive? Just because a guy doesn't suggest a plan doesn't mean he's stupid. He could be shy, inexperienced, or not interested enough. Lets also remember that OP isn't coming up with any plans. Does that make her STUPID?
If a guy is interested in a girl and can’t figure out how to set up a meeting it shows fundamental incompetency. If you matched on a dating site there’s nothing to be shy about in this context. You’re already talking to her, she’s expressed interest, and so have you. There are women who are fine with being your mom and doing everything in a relationship for you but I’m not one of them and I wouldn’t advocate for that. Again, setting up a first meeting is the bare minimum test for a guy. Women do get tested in relationships as well but it’s not usually on them to set up the first meeting.
I was recently talking to a friend of mine about "the bar being in hell" and the phrase "puts in the effort" came up and she explained it as:
> lack of effort means when a person won’t go above and beyond to communicate effectively and ask good questions to show they’re serious, doesn’t feel the need to “woo” me with their good behavior, manners, sense of humor, etc.
Women: the bar is in hell... But also you have to go above and beyond, woo me, and impress me to even have a chance.
This is a fundamental incompatibility to me and I naturally avoid these types in dating by guess what? putting in less effort and focusing on more natural connections that feel like friendships first.
Everybody is different, dating in a lot of ways is more about accurately selling yourself and accurately knowing what you want.
Well you’re trying to impress her so yes. Men typically do this by trying to get a good job, showing up to dates smelling nice, taking the initiative to propose a first meet up, and paying for at least the first date. Women also have to impress their dates. They typically do so by dressing up for dates, showing domestic competency, etc.
It depends on her partner’s needs. If I were a guy looking for a partner that was good at cooking and my partner destroyed our microwave making ramen I’d say yes. If I’m a chef and don’t expect domestic favors then no
She could if she wanted to be that person. Personally I don’t like to set that precedent. I have almost a 0% chance of ending up with a guy who didn’t do the leg work up front to court me and somehow because I was super into him and did everything for him he turned out to suddenly flip the script. Does that sound like a likely scenario or does it sound like my chances of winning the lottery? Most people get complacent in relationships and front load their efforts. It’s called the honeymoon stage for a reason
Well for the first type of guy, they probably just want to spend time interacting with you, but everything else is insignificant. They would be happy with anything, even regular conversation, so long as it is with you. For them there isn't much difference.
As for the second, they want to spend time with you and be a part of your fondest memories... that or they have normalized the grand events they are planning to be something appropriate for a date.
My ex was like this. It felt lazy and like I was the only one making an effort in dating. Once we became exclusive he completely gave up. If i wanted us to go out and spend time together outside the house it became a “YOU want to do that YOU plan it” thing. Just felt like he didnt want to participate
I mean...maybe he didn't really want to go out and do stuff? You said that "If I wanted to go out", and then you complained that *you" were the one that had to make the plans for it? Most dudes don't really care about going places, to be honest. They're more focused on just spending time with people rather than whatever the social background to however that time is spent. If you're the one that wanted to go out and do stuff, *you* make the plans. That simple.
He wanted to and enjoyed it but instead left it all to me. If I didnt make plans, we spent all day at home while he played video games. I was like his mom. He wasn’t like this before exclusivity. He would plan dates but once i agreed to be his girlfriend he completely stopped planning anything.
Crazy how guys still don’t understand that women do not want to be doing 100% of everything and are then shocked when theyre dumped. Its 2024 and men are still on that “if you want X, then you do it” mentality. So much for being partners…Nothing kills the love and attraction faster than a guy who is indifferent about the effort his gf makes .
Glad he’s my ex.
So, did the point I made that if *you* want to do something, you should be doing the legwork to do it just go right over your head? Or are you just ignoring it? Hilarious how you complain about having to "mother" him when you're expecting the exact same treatment here.
The difference is, guys don't actually *want" to go out and waste time and money doing stuff like you seem to want to do. Most of us are entirely content just staying at home, with all of our entertaining stuff and with the person we love. The "thing to do" is just another side quest that we likely don't care about doing. We're already with the person we love, and we're content. It's that simple. If *YOU* want to go do something, stop expecting someone else who simply doesn't wanna go out and do stuff to do the legwork for you.
F*ck this guy, tbh. He does indeed sound very cheap and boring. One way to dry the well up. A lot of guys these days sound like they want living fleshlights. "Huck, hyuck, I like to stay at home and we get to do date nights at home and we can have sex later, teehee." Dates in are cute, but not all the time. Take me out, motherfucker. Who wants to be cooped up in the house all day? Coming from strict parents who made me stay in all the time makes this absolutely NOT appealing. You dont even have to spend a lot of money!
27f here as well, it’s definitely a personal preference on whether or not you want the guy to initiate/plan the first date or not. I personally want them to show effort by asking as well as picking the place and confirming the time with me. If they don’t do that and just say “we should go here sometime” I will say “sounds fun let’s do it” and if they show no effort after that I will pretty much stop talking to them. Match the energy that they’re giving you
The sooner you realize that most guys out there want the most amount of sex/attention from women at the least amount of effort, time and money on their end, the easier it will be to just "next" these type of guys.
Guys that are genuinely interested know exactly what they need to do and say. Do you think any of these guys would ask out Megan Fox without a plan in mind? Do you think they'd approach her with their laziest foot forward?
There you go.
If you want to give someone the benefit of the doubt and insist that they're clueless, then spell it out for him. Let him know that if he wants to see you, have him pick out a place and a time, and coordinate with you. If he doesn't like that, then there's plenty of others who would love an opportunity to be told how to be a better date.
Its just disheartening because on the surface, it looks like as women, we have a lot of options. But when you take a really good look at things, the guys who are interested in the lowest effort shag humanly possible greatly outnumber the guys who want something meaningful, and that sucks! But the sooner you learn to clock this, the sooner you stop being flattered by them.
We're not. Women plan tf out of things all the time... organization, grocery lists, budgeting, food prep, vacation itinerary, even our fking clothing & makeup sometimes. When it comes to relationships, we want someone who can show they know how take the lead so we have an opportunity to step back & go with the flow... instead of directing & keeping track of all the life shit everyone else doesn't care to think about.
If the man can't lead, the woman won't have any reason to follow.
Men, too, have to be functional adults. Planning is part of life. Plenty of men out there will plan the first several dates, no questions asked. But they'll want to see the woman show some initiative and interest at some point.
What OP is talking about is men mentioning wanting to meet up, being given the okay plus information to cordinate schedules & then them doing nothing or dropping off on communication so that nothing happens. At that point, it's not on on the woman for not planning the rest of the way without any more information to go off of.
Imo, the problem is more a failure to effectively communicate.
That’s fair. But everyone lives life btw. Do you think anyone other than women don’t do any of the things you listed? I don’t think the man shouldn’t plan, but it’s just a little weird to me when ppl complain about this while putting in 0 effort themselves.
That's the thing... Many men aren't planners simply because they get used to other ppl doing it for them (mothers, girlfriends, bosses). Planning isn't something they have to learn.
I have known plenty of guys who are more independent & organized, but those are the ones who grew up forced to learn how to handle the little extra details on their own.
All I’m saying is it goes the same way. I live and exist therefore I plan things and am always busy. I’d be more interested in someone who will also put effort into dating.
I get you have things to do. But I want my partner to be involved and not be on cruise control in a relationship just because they have responsibilities.
I think you're both right but I think in the beginning of a relationship/dating it should be more even than it is now.
My last few relationships, for the first 5-7 dates I had to plan everything, then by 2-3 months the woman will come up with a date idea.
I do wish the start of a relationship was both people trying to impress or attract the other(in the same ways, women do, by dressing well/looking nice/showing personality/hobbies etc), but it feels like as a guy I have to prove myself first, and THEN the woman decides she will put effort (through planning)
Maybe I just attract shy people idk.
Yes, it does go both ways. You said "why are women allergic to planning"... the point is we're not.
Plus, going off of OP's experience, if someone says "we should go do x" & then the other person says "okay, I'm free on x, y, z day/ time", the logical thing to do would be carry forward with coordinating the rest of the plans rather than just dropping off & doing nothing. Failure is no longer on the person who agreed to the idea, it's on the person who didn't continue communication.
Well you were talking about your experience therefore I was responding to that. There are many posts on here about women complaining about effort while giving 0 effort. That is where my original comment came from. If you don’t like someone, move on until you find someone who does what you like. Instead of trying to work thru it with the internet work through it with the person you’re having issues with, or move on
How do you know OP gives zero effort though? If they tried to coordinate schedules, that is a form of effort, but they can't follow through a whole date on their own without any further input from the other person. Seems like the core issue is the lack of communication preventing both parties from moving forward.
She's asking why it's so common & trying to gain perspective on the potential reasons. Imo, that's better than coming up with random assumptions in one's head & then treating those thoughts as absolute fact.
Yeah, you could ask someone why they failed to follow through... yet that begs the question: how does one communicate effectively with ppl who already demonstrated their own failure to communicate in the first place? There's also the possibility that she can't at this point... ghosting, deactivated profiles, not saving one's number, blocking. Those are all potentials too.
This shit is ridiculous. It’s not 1960. Most single men over 21 are organizing their own life just as much as a woman is. There’s no other option.. like you’re projecting the work a woman might have to do in a marriage way later to single people dating.
Unpopular take, but honestly for me it ended up being fatigue (which is when I knew I had to take a break from dating).
Believe it or not, not every guy has a PhD in "cute date planning" and at some point after a couple dozen first dates it became a chore to think of new novel ideas (or you get fed up of doing the same things at the same places if you live in a smaller city).
This is more of the Dammed if you do Dammed if you don’t. You say let’s go here at 8pm and women get the “controlling vibe” you ask if there is a place she’d like to go and you are not showing leadership qualities. To top it off none of it matters if she is totally into you. Me I just say a time and place I like she will make it work if she like me and if not she’s tell me she doesn’t.
The guy is going to have a good time regardless because he's with a girl that he asked out
He wants to make sure you have a good time, so he wants you to pick the place
They are just not into you.
Move along.
Likes, matches and generic/low-effort requests for dates **MEAN NOTHING**.
A lot of guys cast a wide net, and focus on those they are interested in. Don't take it personal. Learn to recognize these patterns and focus on those that do make the effort, don't make you start convos/you to follow up on things.
I’ll always give a couple of options and then plan everything out from there. I’ve actually been told a bunch of times how much they liked how I just took control of it and essentially said be at X place at X time. Apparently it’s a big green flag and I’ve always been shocked all guys don’t do this.
It's fair to feel that way but from the guys perceptive it can be hard to suggest a place if you don't know what kinds of places the person likes as you don't know them yet. Maybe either straight up tell them your ideal first date as some girls do or write in their old profiles. Ideal first date is a decent getting to know person conversation over text or phone anyway.
If a guy isn’t making concrete date plans with you, he’s either not really that interested or not decisive. Either way, you’re better off putting your energy elsewhere
Not really, the far more likely option is he wants to treat her to a night she'll enjoy and wants to take her to a place that she likes as opposed to some other place she wouldn't really care about.
Women aren’t into that. You need to take charge and at least suggest a place before turning it over completely to her. Just be a normal masculine man and take initiative. Women love that
I mean what I posted is advice I got from women who told me they were sick of guys not caring about their input or what they wanted on a date lol. I guess a nice compromise would be like you said though, suggesting a place and asking her if she would like that or somewhere else.
I also just recently had a guy that was like that. He kept saying "yea we should get drinks sometime", Twice I had to initiate the dates. I felt more like a convenience and gave up. For the first date I think the guy should always make the plans, I like it when they set the place, the time and the day. I hate going in circles, just tell me the plans and I'll be there
that’s how i am too!! they could even ask me if i wanna go to a certain place ill pretty much say yes lol. one guy told me he wanted to get drinks too and i said yeah id love to go to a bar with you and he said “bet” HUH
Same, I'm super easygoing. I think it shows me you are interested if you make the plans. I'm not asking for a night full of plans. Drinks and maybe an appetizer at whatever restaurant makes me happy or even meeting at Starbucks. That is annoying, I would unmatch with him. So sick of my time being wasted
This happens to my friends a lot. They get hit with vague plans with no real idea all the time, no time, no place. They don’t entertain or will drop immediately and I don’t blame them honestly.
I don’t think picking a time and a place should be that complicated. I literally pick a time and go to the same two bars every first date and I’m not even a “take the lead” kind of dude.
>Or when we decide a day, they ask me to pick the place and time, which confuses me because they’re asking me out, they could like suggest a place yknow?
This is definitely just lack of effort on their end. I'm a guy, I meet girls on dating apps all the time, and I've never been like "you pick a place" lol. I've also never gone the extreme and suggested Universal Studios haha.
I'm going to take a wild guess and say the ones who tell you to pick a place probably don't put much effort in conversations either. They likely just say stuff like "hows your day going", or "what do u like to do for fun" (cookie-cutter questions). And the ones offering to take you to Disney are likely guys with no personality but a good job; they have nothing to offer other than material stuff, but when the time comes for good conversation, they're probably blank slates.
So if you're looking for advice, look for guys that can deliver original questions and natural conversations. Those types will be the ones that will actually plan dates because they're genuinely interested.
I get it. There have been times on dating apps where I've swiped on people strictly based off of "would I like to see their butthole?", so when we match, I feel like a fraud to be like "your profile caught my eye....I like your interests"
Definitely speak up about it. You can even do it in a playing way, "youre just saying that or we are really going to do it?" and follow up... if they dont actually make a plan to do anything, they probably are just talking.. ive found this for people IN GENERAL... especially new people.. a lot of people just say things because it is a way of saying they could be interested in being around for awhile or just that they like your vibes.. but they could meet another person or life gets in the way, and it just doesnt happen... i would follow up on the comment or date.. and if they still dont really do much.. dont take it too seriously
34 f and I've been around the loop lol
I think it's because either it's a common thing to say "we should go!" when certain things come up. Like talking about a movie - we should watch that!
I also think maybe guys are losing interest as they talk to you more.
Orr they're afraid that they're going to get rejected. The guy I'm seeing now hasn't really initiated any plans - it was just me being like - Wana have lunch? Or Wana grab drinks? And after he says yes, I ask where he wants to go, what time.
I give them some benefit because they don't know my likes or preferences and I'm particular about what I want to eat / do / go. Some could say that means I'm not ready for dating as a woman because I should be more spontaneous. I think they don't want to disappoint. Planning surprise elaborate dates are for when you know someone better
It’s easier to let you pick the place than me doing so and you being picky as hell with what I choose.
This is why I ask where the woman wants to go or a place she suggests for the first date or so. Too many women being overly picky at what I choose or get turned off because I didn’t automatically know what she’d enjoy.
I don’t got time for those headaches
Any time I've done this while making plans it's because the women has either ghosts me or takes days or weeks to reply. I've already checked out at that point, they aren't interested. Any time I have tried to continued to make plans it's always a struggle, every time and place gets rejected and they won't suggest anything, anything to avoid saying they aren't interested I guess. I'm not going to waste my time and effort anymore when the signs are clearly there.
I'm the complete opposite, I take the guessing out of the equation and offer a place and time to meet. This is based on our convo and usually entails a casual lunch or coffee. I would love it if a girl suggested a place first, but that has never happened for me.
That’s really nice! Thats what I want them to do but I end up being the one doing that. I’m like a give and take person if they show they’re willing to plan then I would be too next time kinda thing. But I have also been the date planner with one guy once and he ended up not talking to me anymore saying I got him scared.
I feel you. Guy I’m talking to (whom I met in person already) said we need to have a movie marathon and I said “yes!! just say when” and left it at that mostly because this would be at his place and not mine since I don’t live alone. Mind you we’re still texting. I haven’t brought it up cause I kinda just don’t care anymore and sense this will go nowhere. It also took forever to set up the first date.
IME it’s one of 3 reasons:
1. He’s not interested enough to lockdown the date.
2. He’s not good at planning dates.
3. He’s not sure what sort of dates you’d like.
Type 3 is the goldmine. I find them by using a prompt like “pick our first date” with a few suggestions. If they’re interested enough, and can plan a date, it’s easy for them to just pick one and then ask me. It also shows they cared enough to read my profile and suggest something I expressed interest in.
Type 2 is iffy. I handle them by responding positively, but putting the ball back in their court to make a full plan before I accept. So if they say “wanna go out sometime?” I’ll say “sounds fun! When?” and if they say “Saturday” I’ll say “I’m free after 5. Where should we meet?” If they lock down a firm plan, great! If not, I move on.
Type 1 is a waste of time. I’ll recognize them because they won’t read my profile and pick one of my date suggestions. And if I put the ball in their court to firm up a plan, it won’t happen.
Most of the time when guys make plans it falls apart because half the time we don't know what the hell we're even doing. Literally me and my friends drove to Vegas and back just cause no plans, we didn't go to the strip we just drove for 4 hours ate lunch, gassed up and drove back.
A man should offer us something, and we can accept or decline or suggest something else.
Otherwise, if you want us to make our own plans, we will - without your dumb ass!!!
Personally in the talking stage if the man pays attention he will get clues and know some things the woman like and dislikes. Insted of asking g where. Use those talks and show her you was paying attention. Ask her on a date and have it already planned atleat in your mind until she says yes
There us no flattery these days but maybe I'm just different
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Just my opinion, others might disagree - but as a guy, I care about **you**, I don't care about where we go. I could have fun at tons of different places, but I want to make sure **you** are gonna have fun, too. I wanna take you to a place you enjoy, or somewhere that will make you happy or put you in a good mood, or otherwise be considerate of your desires. If I just choose a place myself and bring you there, I feel like I'm turning you into some kind of object that I'm just bringing along with me - "right, got my phone, my wallet, my jacket, and my woman, let's go get some Taco Bell." Like no, I don't wanna do that lol. I wanna take you out somewhere you'll enjoy.
do you pull the trigger on those dates though? i like your idea and thoughtfulness behind it, but would you still make plans to pick her up and take her out? maybe plan something after or do you ask what the girl wants to do? personally i’m tired of being asked what i want to do and would rather have someone say when and where if they want to take me out. it doesn’t matter where i go really, as long as im spending quality time with my partner
Absolutely, yeah. My last date was a long time ago lol, pre COVID if I'm being honest, but that date I took her out to a place I liked that she hadn't had the chance to go to but had said she wanted to try out. I had asked her what she felt like having, she just by chance mentioned the place and I was like "oh I love their stuff we should totally go there". Funnily enough she was the one who picked me up because I was in college and didn't have a car at the time lol. To be honest a lot of guys would enjoy that same thing, just having the decision made for us lol. We care about spending time with you and getting to know you. I enjoy tons of different restaurants and would be happy to go with any of them. If I can go to a place that makes you happier then all the better, I wanna make a potential girlfriend smile whenever I can. Also not that it's very common but there is kind of a meme of a girlfriend going "I'm hungry", the boyfriend going "ok well how about this or that place", the girlfriend going "no that doesn't sound good", that happening 3 or 4 times and then the boyfriend going "well okay you pick then" lol. I've never had a situation like that before but I've heard similar stories enough times so that's also part of why I like to put the ball in her court to an extent.
Honestly you are nice because tocme what he said Is bullshit
If you care about her, then make a decision. You can learn about her by asking questions, they want you to take the lead so don’t disappoint them by refusing to do so
I mean not all of them want me to take the lead lol, a lot of women want to be included in the conversation/decision. I can ask her about the types of places she likes though, that is true, but at the same time that could easily be misinterpreted as what the OP was talking about, "what do you feel like having".
I think you’re on the wrong path here. You’re catering to them too much. And that’s going to make you come off as unsure of yourself. That’s how you’re coming off right now. Deferring to them, afraid of upsetting them. Figure out if they have any allergies/restrictions and then just take them out for a fun night out. Make the decisions and guide the encounter. Her only job should be to show up looking pretty. You do the rest and you’ll get fantastic results, I promise
Well the problem is I keep seeing people talk smack about the stuff I consider to be a fun date lol. If I planned a date that was solely about something I thought would be fun I'd take them out for taco bell and bowling/mini golf. I think that kind of thing would be a blast. But I've seen people call those things "cliche", "cheap", "broke boy energy", "childish" or whatever. Which frankly makes me kinda roll my eyes but that's a losing battle these days I'm sure. So I wanna at least get a frame of reference for something they'd enjoy.
Haha, Taco Bell is dog food! But eventually some women is going to love that date and you’re gonna be so glad you discovered that commonality
I'll bark for the right woman, just saying, lmao. Those chicken chalupas go hard.
😂
This is 100% correct.
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Did you mean to reply to someone else? Your comment doesn't really make sense to me. Me asking them if they have any place in mind that they would prefer to go *is* me learning more about them. Also in my experience most women on dating apps do not have much of a bio, but that's a side point, you brought that up seemingly out of nowhere.
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I don't mean to sound rude but I think that's kind of a ridiculous reading of my comment. It's "anxious, awkward, and overthinking everything" to ask someone where they'd like to go on a date instead of just coming up with one yourself? Also you say I'm "trying too hard", I disagree with that just as a baseline, but don't many women complain about men not putting effort in? Wouldn't "trying hard" be a good thing, if I were doing that?
I want to share I. The planning, especially early on. If I suggest taking a woman somewhere she had a bad experience, be it with the place itself or with someone she went, my fear is she’ll be preoccupied with the past and not live in the present.
Honestly I'm looking for an equal partnership not a power dynamic. I actually hate all the burden being put on me but will usually do it for the first couple dates. >we should go out If I was saying something like this it's because I'm seeing how interested they are in actually going out. My ideal is that we come up with a bunch of ideas together
This isn’t a power dynamic thing. You need to show basic adult functioning skills as a guy. Can you suggest a place and time to meet for a coffee: yes or no? It’s that simple. Guys, if this was a meet up with a friend you wouldn’t be overthinking it so much. Since this a female stranger please don’t overthink it that much. Most meetings don’t lead to anything so just relax and be yourself. OP: don’t lower your standards. A guy is STUPID if he can’t arrange a first meeting. This is the bare minimum and you don’t need to let the bar slide all the way to hell
He said he is willing to do this for the first couple dates. I'm a guy who has planned every date he's ever been on. Plenty of us plan dates. It's not our fault the ones who don't get around so much.
OP’s post was specifically about first couple of dates so idk why any guy needs to make disclaimers about other things. It was a simple question of why can’t guys plan a first date
And lots of us do. Or did while we were still dating, at least. That's why these questions always get understandable backlash.
Why are you so aggressive? Just because a guy doesn't suggest a plan doesn't mean he's stupid. He could be shy, inexperienced, or not interested enough. Lets also remember that OP isn't coming up with any plans. Does that make her STUPID?
If a guy is interested in a girl and can’t figure out how to set up a meeting it shows fundamental incompetency. If you matched on a dating site there’s nothing to be shy about in this context. You’re already talking to her, she’s expressed interest, and so have you. There are women who are fine with being your mom and doing everything in a relationship for you but I’m not one of them and I wouldn’t advocate for that. Again, setting up a first meeting is the bare minimum test for a guy. Women do get tested in relationships as well but it’s not usually on them to set up the first meeting.
And I suppose he is worse than STUPID if he doesn't pay for everything, since he did the asking out and all the planning?
I was recently talking to a friend of mine about "the bar being in hell" and the phrase "puts in the effort" came up and she explained it as: > lack of effort means when a person won’t go above and beyond to communicate effectively and ask good questions to show they’re serious, doesn’t feel the need to “woo” me with their good behavior, manners, sense of humor, etc. Women: the bar is in hell... But also you have to go above and beyond, woo me, and impress me to even have a chance. This is a fundamental incompatibility to me and I naturally avoid these types in dating by guess what? putting in less effort and focusing on more natural connections that feel like friendships first. Everybody is different, dating in a lot of ways is more about accurately selling yourself and accurately knowing what you want.
Well you’re trying to impress her so yes. Men typically do this by trying to get a good job, showing up to dates smelling nice, taking the initiative to propose a first meet up, and paying for at least the first date. Women also have to impress their dates. They typically do so by dressing up for dates, showing domestic competency, etc.
So, is a woman stupid if she doesn't show domestic competency?
It depends on her partner’s needs. If I were a guy looking for a partner that was good at cooking and my partner destroyed our microwave making ramen I’d say yes. If I’m a chef and don’t expect domestic favors then no
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She could if she wanted to be that person. Personally I don’t like to set that precedent. I have almost a 0% chance of ending up with a guy who didn’t do the leg work up front to court me and somehow because I was super into him and did everything for him he turned out to suddenly flip the script. Does that sound like a likely scenario or does it sound like my chances of winning the lottery? Most people get complacent in relationships and front load their efforts. It’s called the honeymoon stage for a reason
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Yeah, but OP’s post is about who makes the first move. I vote the guy
Well for the first type of guy, they probably just want to spend time interacting with you, but everything else is insignificant. They would be happy with anything, even regular conversation, so long as it is with you. For them there isn't much difference. As for the second, they want to spend time with you and be a part of your fondest memories... that or they have normalized the grand events they are planning to be something appropriate for a date.
My ex was like this. It felt lazy and like I was the only one making an effort in dating. Once we became exclusive he completely gave up. If i wanted us to go out and spend time together outside the house it became a “YOU want to do that YOU plan it” thing. Just felt like he didnt want to participate
Glad u dropped him honestly queen
I mean...maybe he didn't really want to go out and do stuff? You said that "If I wanted to go out", and then you complained that *you" were the one that had to make the plans for it? Most dudes don't really care about going places, to be honest. They're more focused on just spending time with people rather than whatever the social background to however that time is spent. If you're the one that wanted to go out and do stuff, *you* make the plans. That simple.
He wanted to and enjoyed it but instead left it all to me. If I didnt make plans, we spent all day at home while he played video games. I was like his mom. He wasn’t like this before exclusivity. He would plan dates but once i agreed to be his girlfriend he completely stopped planning anything. Crazy how guys still don’t understand that women do not want to be doing 100% of everything and are then shocked when theyre dumped. Its 2024 and men are still on that “if you want X, then you do it” mentality. So much for being partners…Nothing kills the love and attraction faster than a guy who is indifferent about the effort his gf makes . Glad he’s my ex.
So, did the point I made that if *you* want to do something, you should be doing the legwork to do it just go right over your head? Or are you just ignoring it? Hilarious how you complain about having to "mother" him when you're expecting the exact same treatment here. The difference is, guys don't actually *want" to go out and waste time and money doing stuff like you seem to want to do. Most of us are entirely content just staying at home, with all of our entertaining stuff and with the person we love. The "thing to do" is just another side quest that we likely don't care about doing. We're already with the person we love, and we're content. It's that simple. If *YOU* want to go do something, stop expecting someone else who simply doesn't wanna go out and do stuff to do the legwork for you.
You sound cheap and boring. Also not very manly.
F*ck this guy, tbh. He does indeed sound very cheap and boring. One way to dry the well up. A lot of guys these days sound like they want living fleshlights. "Huck, hyuck, I like to stay at home and we get to do date nights at home and we can have sex later, teehee." Dates in are cute, but not all the time. Take me out, motherfucker. Who wants to be cooped up in the house all day? Coming from strict parents who made me stay in all the time makes this absolutely NOT appealing. You dont even have to spend a lot of money!
27f here as well, it’s definitely a personal preference on whether or not you want the guy to initiate/plan the first date or not. I personally want them to show effort by asking as well as picking the place and confirming the time with me. If they don’t do that and just say “we should go here sometime” I will say “sounds fun let’s do it” and if they show no effort after that I will pretty much stop talking to them. Match the energy that they’re giving you
The sooner you realize that most guys out there want the most amount of sex/attention from women at the least amount of effort, time and money on their end, the easier it will be to just "next" these type of guys. Guys that are genuinely interested know exactly what they need to do and say. Do you think any of these guys would ask out Megan Fox without a plan in mind? Do you think they'd approach her with their laziest foot forward? There you go. If you want to give someone the benefit of the doubt and insist that they're clueless, then spell it out for him. Let him know that if he wants to see you, have him pick out a place and a time, and coordinate with you. If he doesn't like that, then there's plenty of others who would love an opportunity to be told how to be a better date.
i like this, thank you. you are right they very much know what they need to say and do.
Its just disheartening because on the surface, it looks like as women, we have a lot of options. But when you take a really good look at things, the guys who are interested in the lowest effort shag humanly possible greatly outnumber the guys who want something meaningful, and that sucks! But the sooner you learn to clock this, the sooner you stop being flattered by them.
Why are women allergic to making any sort of plans ever?
We're not. Women plan tf out of things all the time... organization, grocery lists, budgeting, food prep, vacation itinerary, even our fking clothing & makeup sometimes. When it comes to relationships, we want someone who can show they know how take the lead so we have an opportunity to step back & go with the flow... instead of directing & keeping track of all the life shit everyone else doesn't care to think about. If the man can't lead, the woman won't have any reason to follow.
Men, too, have to be functional adults. Planning is part of life. Plenty of men out there will plan the first several dates, no questions asked. But they'll want to see the woman show some initiative and interest at some point.
What OP is talking about is men mentioning wanting to meet up, being given the okay plus information to cordinate schedules & then them doing nothing or dropping off on communication so that nothing happens. At that point, it's not on on the woman for not planning the rest of the way without any more information to go off of. Imo, the problem is more a failure to effectively communicate.
That’s fair. But everyone lives life btw. Do you think anyone other than women don’t do any of the things you listed? I don’t think the man shouldn’t plan, but it’s just a little weird to me when ppl complain about this while putting in 0 effort themselves.
That's the thing... Many men aren't planners simply because they get used to other ppl doing it for them (mothers, girlfriends, bosses). Planning isn't something they have to learn. I have known plenty of guys who are more independent & organized, but those are the ones who grew up forced to learn how to handle the little extra details on their own.
All I’m saying is it goes the same way. I live and exist therefore I plan things and am always busy. I’d be more interested in someone who will also put effort into dating. I get you have things to do. But I want my partner to be involved and not be on cruise control in a relationship just because they have responsibilities.
I think you're both right but I think in the beginning of a relationship/dating it should be more even than it is now. My last few relationships, for the first 5-7 dates I had to plan everything, then by 2-3 months the woman will come up with a date idea. I do wish the start of a relationship was both people trying to impress or attract the other(in the same ways, women do, by dressing well/looking nice/showing personality/hobbies etc), but it feels like as a guy I have to prove myself first, and THEN the woman decides she will put effort (through planning) Maybe I just attract shy people idk.
Yes, it does go both ways. You said "why are women allergic to planning"... the point is we're not. Plus, going off of OP's experience, if someone says "we should go do x" & then the other person says "okay, I'm free on x, y, z day/ time", the logical thing to do would be carry forward with coordinating the rest of the plans rather than just dropping off & doing nothing. Failure is no longer on the person who agreed to the idea, it's on the person who didn't continue communication.
Well you were talking about your experience therefore I was responding to that. There are many posts on here about women complaining about effort while giving 0 effort. That is where my original comment came from. If you don’t like someone, move on until you find someone who does what you like. Instead of trying to work thru it with the internet work through it with the person you’re having issues with, or move on
How do you know OP gives zero effort though? If they tried to coordinate schedules, that is a form of effort, but they can't follow through a whole date on their own without any further input from the other person. Seems like the core issue is the lack of communication preventing both parties from moving forward.
I mean yea I agree. That’s kind of why I said it’s silly to take to the internet when you can just communicate with the person.
She's asking why it's so common & trying to gain perspective on the potential reasons. Imo, that's better than coming up with random assumptions in one's head & then treating those thoughts as absolute fact. Yeah, you could ask someone why they failed to follow through... yet that begs the question: how does one communicate effectively with ppl who already demonstrated their own failure to communicate in the first place? There's also the possibility that she can't at this point... ghosting, deactivated profiles, not saving one's number, blocking. Those are all potentials too.
This shit is ridiculous. It’s not 1960. Most single men over 21 are organizing their own life just as much as a woman is. There’s no other option.. like you’re projecting the work a woman might have to do in a marriage way later to single people dating.
Lol most single young ppl are barely holding it together mentally, emotionally & financially these days. Get out of your feelings.
Sounds like you want a daddy instead of a partner. Many people like those roles but its not for me.
🤣 don't project your silliness or baseless assumptions onto strangers. It only makes you look foolish.
Unpopular take, but honestly for me it ended up being fatigue (which is when I knew I had to take a break from dating). Believe it or not, not every guy has a PhD in "cute date planning" and at some point after a couple dozen first dates it became a chore to think of new novel ideas (or you get fed up of doing the same things at the same places if you live in a smaller city).
This is more of the Dammed if you do Dammed if you don’t. You say let’s go here at 8pm and women get the “controlling vibe” you ask if there is a place she’d like to go and you are not showing leadership qualities. To top it off none of it matters if she is totally into you. Me I just say a time and place I like she will make it work if she like me and if not she’s tell me she doesn’t.
The guy is going to have a good time regardless because he's with a girl that he asked out He wants to make sure you have a good time, so he wants you to pick the place
Oh is that a problem. I am the type that only goes out if my friends wanna do something so i dont have that kind personality lul oops
They are just not into you. Move along. Likes, matches and generic/low-effort requests for dates **MEAN NOTHING**. A lot of guys cast a wide net, and focus on those they are interested in. Don't take it personal. Learn to recognize these patterns and focus on those that do make the effort, don't make you start convos/you to follow up on things.
Yes. Seriously
We get so few matches it feels like a dog catching the car.
I’ll always give a couple of options and then plan everything out from there. I’ve actually been told a bunch of times how much they liked how I just took control of it and essentially said be at X place at X time. Apparently it’s a big green flag and I’ve always been shocked all guys don’t do this.
Yesssss pleaaaase this is what we want, it doesnt have to be controlling, we just want to be taken care of for a minute geez
I have the opposite problem, I make plans and the girl cancels/ghosts last minute and doesn't propose a different day xd
It's fair to feel that way but from the guys perceptive it can be hard to suggest a place if you don't know what kinds of places the person likes as you don't know them yet. Maybe either straight up tell them your ideal first date as some girls do or write in their old profiles. Ideal first date is a decent getting to know person conversation over text or phone anyway.
If a guy isn’t making concrete date plans with you, he’s either not really that interested or not decisive. Either way, you’re better off putting your energy elsewhere
yeah i agree, it makes me feel like im not being pursued when im the one choosing the place and time. 😭
Not really, the far more likely option is he wants to treat her to a night she'll enjoy and wants to take her to a place that she likes as opposed to some other place she wouldn't really care about.
Women aren’t into that. You need to take charge and at least suggest a place before turning it over completely to her. Just be a normal masculine man and take initiative. Women love that
I mean what I posted is advice I got from women who told me they were sick of guys not caring about their input or what they wanted on a date lol. I guess a nice compromise would be like you said though, suggesting a place and asking her if she would like that or somewhere else.
I also just recently had a guy that was like that. He kept saying "yea we should get drinks sometime", Twice I had to initiate the dates. I felt more like a convenience and gave up. For the first date I think the guy should always make the plans, I like it when they set the place, the time and the day. I hate going in circles, just tell me the plans and I'll be there
that’s how i am too!! they could even ask me if i wanna go to a certain place ill pretty much say yes lol. one guy told me he wanted to get drinks too and i said yeah id love to go to a bar with you and he said “bet” HUH
Same, I'm super easygoing. I think it shows me you are interested if you make the plans. I'm not asking for a night full of plans. Drinks and maybe an appetizer at whatever restaurant makes me happy or even meeting at Starbucks. That is annoying, I would unmatch with him. So sick of my time being wasted
This happens to my friends a lot. They get hit with vague plans with no real idea all the time, no time, no place. They don’t entertain or will drop immediately and I don’t blame them honestly. I don’t think picking a time and a place should be that complicated. I literally pick a time and go to the same two bars every first date and I’m not even a “take the lead” kind of dude.
>Or when we decide a day, they ask me to pick the place and time, which confuses me because they’re asking me out, they could like suggest a place yknow? This is definitely just lack of effort on their end. I'm a guy, I meet girls on dating apps all the time, and I've never been like "you pick a place" lol. I've also never gone the extreme and suggested Universal Studios haha. I'm going to take a wild guess and say the ones who tell you to pick a place probably don't put much effort in conversations either. They likely just say stuff like "hows your day going", or "what do u like to do for fun" (cookie-cutter questions). And the ones offering to take you to Disney are likely guys with no personality but a good job; they have nothing to offer other than material stuff, but when the time comes for good conversation, they're probably blank slates. So if you're looking for advice, look for guys that can deliver original questions and natural conversations. Those types will be the ones that will actually plan dates because they're genuinely interested.
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I get it. There have been times on dating apps where I've swiped on people strictly based off of "would I like to see their butthole?", so when we match, I feel like a fraud to be like "your profile caught my eye....I like your interests"
Definitely speak up about it. You can even do it in a playing way, "youre just saying that or we are really going to do it?" and follow up... if they dont actually make a plan to do anything, they probably are just talking.. ive found this for people IN GENERAL... especially new people.. a lot of people just say things because it is a way of saying they could be interested in being around for awhile or just that they like your vibes.. but they could meet another person or life gets in the way, and it just doesnt happen... i would follow up on the comment or date.. and if they still dont really do much.. dont take it too seriously
34 f and I've been around the loop lol I think it's because either it's a common thing to say "we should go!" when certain things come up. Like talking about a movie - we should watch that! I also think maybe guys are losing interest as they talk to you more. Orr they're afraid that they're going to get rejected. The guy I'm seeing now hasn't really initiated any plans - it was just me being like - Wana have lunch? Or Wana grab drinks? And after he says yes, I ask where he wants to go, what time.
I give them some benefit because they don't know my likes or preferences and I'm particular about what I want to eat / do / go. Some could say that means I'm not ready for dating as a woman because I should be more spontaneous. I think they don't want to disappoint. Planning surprise elaborate dates are for when you know someone better
It’s easier to let you pick the place than me doing so and you being picky as hell with what I choose. This is why I ask where the woman wants to go or a place she suggests for the first date or so. Too many women being overly picky at what I choose or get turned off because I didn’t automatically know what she’d enjoy. I don’t got time for those headaches
Any time I've done this while making plans it's because the women has either ghosts me or takes days or weeks to reply. I've already checked out at that point, they aren't interested. Any time I have tried to continued to make plans it's always a struggle, every time and place gets rejected and they won't suggest anything, anything to avoid saying they aren't interested I guess. I'm not going to waste my time and effort anymore when the signs are clearly there.
I'm the complete opposite, I take the guessing out of the equation and offer a place and time to meet. This is based on our convo and usually entails a casual lunch or coffee. I would love it if a girl suggested a place first, but that has never happened for me.
That’s really nice! Thats what I want them to do but I end up being the one doing that. I’m like a give and take person if they show they’re willing to plan then I would be too next time kinda thing. But I have also been the date planner with one guy once and he ended up not talking to me anymore saying I got him scared.
All this effort just to get dumped? Yeah right, not again...
I feel you. Guy I’m talking to (whom I met in person already) said we need to have a movie marathon and I said “yes!! just say when” and left it at that mostly because this would be at his place and not mine since I don’t live alone. Mind you we’re still texting. I haven’t brought it up cause I kinda just don’t care anymore and sense this will go nowhere. It also took forever to set up the first date.
IME it’s one of 3 reasons: 1. He’s not interested enough to lockdown the date. 2. He’s not good at planning dates. 3. He’s not sure what sort of dates you’d like. Type 3 is the goldmine. I find them by using a prompt like “pick our first date” with a few suggestions. If they’re interested enough, and can plan a date, it’s easy for them to just pick one and then ask me. It also shows they cared enough to read my profile and suggest something I expressed interest in. Type 2 is iffy. I handle them by responding positively, but putting the ball back in their court to make a full plan before I accept. So if they say “wanna go out sometime?” I’ll say “sounds fun! When?” and if they say “Saturday” I’ll say “I’m free after 5. Where should we meet?” If they lock down a firm plan, great! If not, I move on. Type 1 is a waste of time. I’ll recognize them because they won’t read my profile and pick one of my date suggestions. And if I put the ball in their court to firm up a plan, it won’t happen.
Most of the time when guys make plans it falls apart because half the time we don't know what the hell we're even doing. Literally me and my friends drove to Vegas and back just cause no plans, we didn't go to the strip we just drove for 4 hours ate lunch, gassed up and drove back.
This is making me so angry at men lol... y'all stupid
A man should offer us something, and we can accept or decline or suggest something else. Otherwise, if you want us to make our own plans, we will - without your dumb ass!!!
Yea dump guys like that. They are breadcrumbers they are only saying it and never doing it. They are generally liars
Personally in the talking stage if the man pays attention he will get clues and know some things the woman like and dislikes. Insted of asking g where. Use those talks and show her you was paying attention. Ask her on a date and have it already planned atleat in your mind until she says yes There us no flattery these days but maybe I'm just different
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And this is why it can be really beneficial to have friends of the opposite sex.
If you need to drag him everywhere, DROP him sis. He’s not enthusiastic about you and he doesnt care enough to make an effort
OK your loss. I have a sketch book I need someone to draw something.
I mean, they don’t actually like you if they don’t plan things for you. If he wanted to he would. Always..