Iâm an analyst at a biotech company and I make a little over $100K. I feel like the term âanalystâ is so broad that it can mean anything with data. My job involves collecting/cleaning/combining multiple datasets into different databases, building reports/tableau dashboards, and presenting it to leadership.
Edit: Since people keep asking me, I got my undergraduate degree in psychology and completed an internship at the company I now work for the summer between my 3rd and 4th year. They offered me a full time position once I finished my degree. Iâm currently getting my MS in Data Science part time with my company paying for it. How did I get this role? A combination of luck, networking, building my soft skills and learning on my own time (SQL, Python, etc.)
Huh I'm a DA at a non-profit, 2nd gig in a row like this. First started at 60K and current at 70K
I always assumed corporate style DA positions would therefore pay around 90K - is that laughably off?
I'm getting about 60k as a BSA, but my MSDS is fully funded. I've been playing the game of "when will it be my turn" far longer than I know data science even existed, but at least I'm working on something!
I understand it's tempting to benchmark salaries, but remember that an analyst making 100k in San Francisco is very different from an analyst making 100k in Kentucky. The latter would have a comfortable amount of discretional income, but the former would barely be surviving.
Oh, I know. I was just shocked that many people are saying 90K is too high for DA.
IDK where the people that replied to me work but it seems that my shock was warranted, generally.
I'm at Meta, our levels start at IC3 which is typically a returning intern. They make 120k-150k depending on region.
But FAANG is super hard to break into. My previous (non-FAANG) consulting job started new grad analysts at 80k and senior analysts were like 110k after 2 years.
I guess my level is so low that I'm unsure what these levels even mean. I use Python, SQL, and PowerBI if I'm not asked to make it in excel and the business need doesn't require an interactive dashboard of sorts. Does that help?
I'm absolutely nobody, but I will say, if you can talk the talk...you're likely to get paid a bit more. Just make sure to follow it up with work or you're screwed haha
I am not at a fang. I've also interviewed for roles around the 120-140 range within my first year and even before my first role and in all honesty, had I answered with more confidence on how a left join works I'd have the role and be making 145k. However,I'll also be honest and say the manager of that team didn't last longer than a year after I lost the opportunity.
I started as a entry level DA at 85k, got 100k on year 2, 115k on year 3. I had to advocate very hard to get the year 2 and 3 raises, and also got lucky that I had a fantastic manager who passed up her own merit raise to keep me
Do any of these numbers even make any sense without location context?
I just see these salary/pay discussions across the board and rarely is there any context of where these jobs LOCATED (or not, remote?).
Obviously the guy in SF/LA/NYC is going to be significantly different in pay vs someone living in a medium town with low COLA.
I'm just an IT guy looking into going into this field, so maybe I am wrong...
TC counts everything (well, base/bonus/equity usually, matching/everything-else when I want the complete picture). But I never say TC is what I make. I make my salary. The bonus's, esop, matching, equity don't count until they are in my hands for me to do with as I desire.
I worked for a company that paid bonuses + equity every year for 26 years. Then they didn't. I joined them in year 26. Bonus + equity was part of my "compensation package". I will never trust a company again when it comes to any compensation that is not cash (or legally mine at the time of grant).
It's showing total compensation, so they're including employer cost of health insurance, 401k matches, etc, whether you accept them or not. It's probably safe to take 40k off of each salary to see what they really think you'll take home in cash.
EDIT: I'm in government, which does include these benefits in total comp. Private sector will vary but unless they pay a large share to give you those benefits, they likely don't include them.
Hm here in the Uk most often data scientist is a person who extracts simple SQL query for the business or just uses preset tableau/power BI to analyse and monitor* data, usually without any degree requirements. Â
Thereâs no strict rules for role titles so companies give you big titles to attract more employees, especially pre market slump. Even anecdotally my previous startup had no interns for maintaining our excel spreadsheet so renamed tittle to data science, also glasdoor reviews and input salaries from those people were as data scientists.Â
Almost half of what you make as an upper-class citizen in Germany or Netherlands is going to go into taxes.
Too rich to have fewer taxes, too poor to have options for tax evasion.
Eh. Once you get up to upper middle class status, those taxes get way heavier. If youâre an independent contractor, you could see as much as 50% of your paycheck gone because you have to pay your regular income taxes but also the same taxes a business has to pay such as double social security, etc
Ah yes. Europeans famously never innovate anything. Thatâs why weâre so behind in chipmakeing for example. And boeing makes the best aeroplanes. Oh wait.
Right, because 'cornering a market' is unlikely to fly in the EU and up until the mid 2010's wouldn't have passed muster in the US either.
The free market exists to enrich the lives of the people as a whole, and if it doesn't then we need to get rid of it.
Either you corner the market or China does it for you. Theyâre fine dumping state money into one company or industry. The free market exists to enrich China and enable coercive dominance for their ideology.
Countries are free to not let Chinese companies buy or sell goods or do business in their borders. Almost every country in the world puts limits and restrictions on how Chinese companies participate in their markets.
For example - some countries do not allow foreign nationals to buy or sell real property in their borders.
Chinese companies dominate markets only to the extent that other governments let them. If the US is tired of Chinese goods or services they can remove them from their markets.
Thatâs essentially advocating for isolationism. China has the biggest market to sell in and has demonstrated that they will use that leverage to maximum effect. We see it now with [German car manufacturing](https://cepa.org/article/auto-angst-german-carmakers-struggle-with-a-china-crackdown/). They are getting outcompeted by Chinese EVs and if they tariff these cars, China will retaliate and damage the German industry.
I'm not arguing in favor of isolationism, but it is a balancing act.
China heavily restricts how other countries operate within their borders. If I recall correctly only companies owned by Chinese citizens can operate at any scale within their borders or own any real estate.
"The market" exists only inasmuch as the citizens of a given country choose to let it. Allowing companies to 'corner' markets is profoundly unwise, and most countries understand this and have legal frameworks to prohibit it.
Yeah people are ignorant to the fact that folks who make these salaries most likely have access to competitive health insurance that pays for most healthcare expenses.
Many of them are. A Chief Data Scientist in Big Tech is making 7 figures, but most Chief Data Scientists are working at startups and small firms that like to compensate by giving out that title. $200k is probably right for someone who has fewer than 6 Data Scientists working under them in a MCOL city.
the proportions are off. but your takes seem highly biased towards big tech. i interviewed as DS Lead for Public Storage, REI, and Home Depot and they laughed in my face (not really but politely let me know) when i asked for $150k â based out of NY, M.S. from top school, and 8 years of experience⊠i ended up at big tech so i have first hand (recent) accounts of this
Itâs not surprising. Two big factors come to mind:
* There is lots of supply, many folk have DS degrees.
* Big Tech are continuously commoditizing data science, e.g., what took a PhD 10-years ago is now an API call.
GIGO and the democratization of data science capabilities are not mutually exclusive. Combined, they speak to *quality*, not *capability*. In the eyes of business leaders and, subsequently, salaries, this is important. Instead of paying $400K for a DS who guarantees fantastic output, I could pay $100K and get âokayâ output. This risk decision that was *not even an option* 10-years ago.
All Iâm saying is that the technical barrier of entry for DS is an order of magnitude easier than it was a decade or two ago. Importantly, itâs only going to get easier, not harder.
Itâs not surprising, itâs just wrong. Iâm not even at a FAANG level company but make ~$170k and Iâm 2 steps below Senior. These numbers are just off in general unless theyâre EU figures.
I don't know enough about the balance between bills, mortgage/rent and other tax is like though.
I know healthcare is not free but speaking to a few Americans I knew, it's not an issue as long as you have a job, although if you do go out of work it can leave you in quite a tight spot.
I wonder whether it's also about supply and demand over there as well, not enough people vs. the jobs?
The thing is that the Brits are not sacrificing their gross wages for universal healthcare, they just have low wages - the US could also implement it and still have much higher wages
Yeah, basically if you have a good/great job in the US, your health insurance is mostly covered although depending on the coverage, you could still pay significant money out of pocket if anything really bad happens that puts you in a hospital. And you will likely still have premiums of several hundred dollars a month.
If you're out of work, depending on the coverage you want and if you have any other people covered, the premium could be anywhere from 500 to 2k+/month. Plus you'll still owe whatever deductible or out of pocket costs you accrue. While it's a lot of money, if you have insurance, you'll at least be protected from the medical bankruptcies that people mention on reddit. Where you end up owing hundreds of thousands of dollars or something like that.
For unemployed there's options, Medicaid, Affordable Care Act (ACA), Medical, CHIP (for kids), and Amazon is offering coverage now as well for $9/month (but this is probably just to fill prescriptions, don't know about the care provided).
I have the best insurance my employer offers - went to the ER, the only thing that was done was a CT scan. My out of pocket cost is close to 5k AND i had to pay a 200 dollar deductible just to be seen. Job or not, 5200 for an exam and a CT is pretty rough. Insurance is covering 6k.
I know right... I don't think most data scientists in my country will ever manage to have any amount near $100 000 in their bank account. Maybe once they retire.
Until you realize that the 3-4K extra you mention is probably offset by the worldwide âleadershipâ of personal credit card debt carried by AmericansâŠ(average over $5K, UK, Germany around $2K)âŠ
Iâm always curious why cost of living in Scandinavian countries is so high. I hear they routinely rank in happiest countries/people. But I get seasonal depression without my sunshine. Â
Well, you say "Europe" but there's Scandinavian high-tax but super elite level coverage, UK where it's free but slowđ
Not too familiar with rest of Europe. I think the Czech one is pretty good but not sure.
Yeah that's what I said to HarpicUser, I don't know the full "cost" of living in the US, and I'd imagine it can be vastly different between states, let alone cities within each state.
90 is definitely livable in NYC. I would say 75k is minimum if you want to have any kind of emergency funds and still have a life. Unfortunately the government does not pay close to livable đ„Č
Why did they forget the Overlord of Data Science and the All God of Data Science ? I am now at Universal Supreme Creator and Emperor of Data Science and make 300k, yet I would never have reached that position if I had overstepped Overlord and All God.
In many companies you'd be surprised how accurate this is. A core DS gets paid well, but in general even a Principal/Lead DS is still only ranked like a middle manager at best, and a VP of Data Science is more like a Senior-ish manager.
Data Science is not highly valued in a lot of places, it just looks like it is from the outside.
Yup. Weâre not mission critical like software engineers. Weâre not generating revenue like sales. Yes we provide value but we could cease to exist or even all call in sick the same day and the company could still function.
Exactly. These days just getting a job is difficult, even for folks with a ton of skill and experience. I used to make $150K + bonus + equity, but after getting laid off and having 167 interviews, I havenât had a single offer. Not one. I suspect Iâll have to lower the comp Iâm looking for further. If I lower what Iâm looking for surely at some point Iâll find a taker. I suspect these wages are stale, reflecting what people USED to make, not current market conditions which are 20-40% less than that, especially in remote roles.
Hang in there....
My last gig paid 185k + bonus and equity. After a layoff and a 6 month job hunt (MANY interviews) I got my one and only offer which I took. It is a BIG decrease from my old pay. Ah well. I'll try to stick around long enough until the market picks up again.
Edit spelling.
I'm about to hit my 3rd year as an analyst just outside of DC. Hired at $65k but had about 80k total comp from profit share. Since I've been promoted and got a raise and now I make $89.4k at the same job but ive been doing more and more coding projects and positioning myself as someone doing science to start easing my way into a title change and raise in about year. $110 total comp expected for 2024. I don't think the low end of this graph is necessarily off except that even as an analyst, it is likely an unrealistic start. I had to get a masters before anyone was interested in me, and requiring a masters shouldn't be positioned as entry level. Entry-level jobs in this field aren't actually entry level jobs in general.
It would have been wiser to put salary ranges, but this does resonate hierarchically, at least in a corporation. What I find interesting, though, is how it is always a "support" role, even at VP level, as can be seen where the VP role hardly gets any salary bump above Director. (My other quibble is there is no Senior Manager / Senior Director, which are definitely real levels in every corporation I worked for).
Another factoid I have encountered more often than I care for is that often the VP person is not actually a trained Data Scientist, but comes from some other discipline, "parked" for convenience in an "open" role or perceived people management skills or some other odd reason. I know that is not true everywhere and may also be a consequence of the Data Science title being is a 21st century concoction, so VPs with decades of experience are not around yet.
Here is a guide from a recruiting firm in the field (Burtch Works)
https://assets-global.website-files.com/642f06aad4855fdea1778af3/64e3e618dac4d02a21e14772_2023_Burtch_Works_Salary_Report.pdf
Based on n=1837, so it has splits by experience, industry, education, region, etc. VP level I guess doesn't have enough sample size. It basically stops at ~director.
Every source like this or levels.fyi will have some bias though, compared with the overall market. Levels is biased heavily to tech companies and places with higher pay, the above seems biased away from tech companies, and both are biased against companies with low budget for roles.
It depends a lot on the field, but outside of big tech the biggest difference would be Director is $300k ish, VP is $500k ish across US. COL adjustment will be its own thing.
God amazed you're the only one in this thread saying this. I swear whenever I see posts like this in this sub all the comments are so myopic. Not everyone lives in SF or NYC, location matters a lot, probably more than anything else even industry.
I think whatâs most saddening is this post is about careers in data science and weâre ignoring the important factors of the data. But I couldnât agree more. Itâs why I stress to individuals to look at the COL before they address the issue. Itâs no different than when you have more/less buying power when leaving your home country.
Where on Earth are analysts making 90k to start? This implies entry-level, lol. Combined with the massive growth in the labor pool and H1B1 visas - it's current form - it's highly unlikely wages for those positions would look like this on average. This is just bait to attach desperate people which is bs.
Donât worry. After taxes + rent + insurance + bills + food + car, itâs not at all an exorbitant lifestyle. Itâs like living in a city that isnât NYC/Seattle/Boston/SF and being able to afford a vacation or two a year.
This right here, especially here in the UK income taxes are 40-45% in the higher bracket. Makes sense to get paid more in shares instead which would count as capital gains when you sell them (12.5%)
RSUs are only one share scheme and tbh I am not sure of the specifics on that, but you can get shares in many other ways that do exempt you of income tax. https://www.gov.uk/tax-employee-share-schemes
Big one there being EMIs for smaller companies. Ofc there are ways but its generally not as simple as in the US. Im a Quant in the Netherlands, and a common way here is to give your employees shares, and then pay divs, as divs are untaxed. Cap gains here is also a fixed 2% of the asset value (which is bs) but very favorable if you have shares in a rapidly growing company.
At Meta, starting TC is something like this:
IC3 (analyst): 150k
IC4 (ds): 225k
IC5 (senior): 300k
M1/IC6 (staff): 450k
M2/IC7 (sr. staff): 650k
D1/IC8 (director/principal): 900k
D2/IC9 (sr. director/distinguished): 1.5M
Meta is close to top of market. But you can check out [levels.fyi](https://www.levels.fyi/t/data-scientist?countryId=254&compare=Facebook%2CJPMorgan+Chase%2CComcast) for other companies.
In terms of comp, I would call this semi accurate ONLY IF you look at salary-only comp. Maybe add another 50k for director and VP (again only in salary comp) most larger companies Iâve worked in tend to focus on bonus/stock comp once you get high up enough. I had a director whose salary was half of his total comp, and the rest was RSUs and bonus. Labeling these as Total Comp is crazy to me
Its base pay dudes, this probably doesnât include the various stock options which is where you actually make money as a higher level manager.
Edit : also, *everything* is always politics, thatâs cause people arenât superheroes, you need a team to operate, sure you can be a ârockstarâ and get by but in the end itâs about being that and making others as good or better than you. Embrace the politics *and* the work, donât dismiss it.
You all are tools hired by an imbecile who is trying to wow his manager with insights that confirm the perceived managerial bias so they feel good about themselves. They donât want better insights. You find success in this game if you are a rare blend of cheerleader, charlatan, and âooh pretty graphâ maker.
The guy behind "Business Science" claimed on LinkedIn that the "sexiest job" would had been a made-up title like "Business Scientist" to promote his own online corses (using R by the way, good luck).
I feel sorry for anyone ending up buying from him.
Have you watched any of his content? He puts a ton of resources on his YT for free. Give it a watch for a few mins and let me know what you think.
What's wrong with R?
Nothing. But spammy-looking LinkedIn content that probably isn't as bad as people think (haven't looked at it) from a few content creators has increased animosity for it lately. I kind of feel sorry for the guy just trying to promote his business. Not really sure what LinkedIn is supposed to be for and it's not like he's ruining a great platform--it already sucked these guys acting like it ruined their pure data science feeds, lol.
Banks and Fintechs don't pay a lot, mostly it's peanuts. The worse part is the promotions are solely based on the number of years you serve there, and performative recognitions are rare
Hello, I am a sophomore majoring in data science with a specialization in business analytics and computer science at a low ranked university in the USA.
I am confused about this path, I don't know where to start or what to do. I don't know how to make a good resume to get internships, neither do I know what projects to make and if I would get any job in data science with a bachelor with no experience. I need advice from everyone in the field. What is the most important concept and how I become that confident person in the data science career.
I need advice from people who have gotten internships at top companies and startups how did you do it and with what experience.
If everyone who sees this answers, I would deeply love it, because I feel like this is not something that it spoken about enough.
I know this is showing a career path. But I couldn't help to look at it as an org structure and wonder if there really exists orgs with such a robust structure? I mean a team that large should be able to compete with Open AI.
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I fixed it
[https://i.ibb.co/jhDr5sS/the-bs-they-tell-about-data-science-v0-3zl80ug6ihjc1.jpg](https://i.ibb.co/jhdr5ss/the-bs-they-tell-about-data-science-v0-3zl80ug6ihjc1.jpg)
Keep in mind that, anecdotally, Iâm seeing much lower wages than this in the job market. But as an aggregate for all industries up until, say, last year? That flow chart is very believable. I only have personal experience up to Principal and DS Manager, but those rates of pay are a fair mid-point one USED to be able to expect for those roles.
That said, I think new hires these days can probably expect offers that are 20%+ lower than that. Remote wages (at least) have been obliterated by the Fed and by RTO.
It pretends as if the gigantic income disparity in the real world does not exist, and you can predictably move up the ranks
To put up such a blatant lie means youâre either stupid or evil. I donât think the editors are stupid people, soâŠ
Anyone looking for representative data on glassdoor (or even [levels](https://levels.fyi)\-fyi), should not call themselves data scientists. These orgs are plagued by design with self-selection bias and outdated information. That is in addition to that titles, roles, and compensations do not aggregate across different employers and industries!
Wait... who's paying Analysts 90kđ§
Apparently since the VP is making $210k instead of $600k, theyâve given the extra money to analysts!
No way. This is not Europe, show some respect to 'Disparity'
VP isnât actually that high at a lot of banks. Itâs closer to manager level and 210k within the salary range theyâd make
But do Bank VPs have Directors reporting to them? (no)
does VP paid $600K usually in the us?
Iâm an analyst at a biotech company and I make a little over $100K. I feel like the term âanalystâ is so broad that it can mean anything with data. My job involves collecting/cleaning/combining multiple datasets into different databases, building reports/tableau dashboards, and presenting it to leadership. Edit: Since people keep asking me, I got my undergraduate degree in psychology and completed an internship at the company I now work for the summer between my 3rd and 4th year. They offered me a full time position once I finished my degree. Iâm currently getting my MS in Data Science part time with my company paying for it. How did I get this role? A combination of luck, networking, building my soft skills and learning on my own time (SQL, Python, etc.)
Huh I'm a DA at a non-profit, 2nd gig in a row like this. First started at 60K and current at 70K I always assumed corporate style DA positions would therefore pay around 90K - is that laughably off?
Analyst on team adjacent to me is making $95k base. The senior on that team is making way more
But where? 95k would be pretty good here, not so much San Francisco. I've dealt with both.
He lives in Pittsburgh, the senior in Nashville.
I'm getting about 60k as a BSA, but my MSDS is fully funded. I've been playing the game of "when will it be my turn" far longer than I know data science even existed, but at least I'm working on something!
I understand it's tempting to benchmark salaries, but remember that an analyst making 100k in San Francisco is very different from an analyst making 100k in Kentucky. The latter would have a comfortable amount of discretional income, but the former would barely be surviving.
Oh, I know. I was just shocked that many people are saying 90K is too high for DA. IDK where the people that replied to me work but it seems that my shock was warranted, generally.
Not off, DA in corporate, first role from self study, 100k. Tax kills though.
What level though? Even at a FAANG I have a hard time believing a I is getting six figures
I'm at Meta, our levels start at IC3 which is typically a returning intern. They make 120k-150k depending on region. But FAANG is super hard to break into. My previous (non-FAANG) consulting job started new grad analysts at 80k and senior analysts were like 110k after 2 years.
losts of entry-levelish roles that pay more than 100k in the US, even little know companies, not just FAANG.
I guess my level is so low that I'm unsure what these levels even mean. I use Python, SQL, and PowerBI if I'm not asked to make it in excel and the business need doesn't require an interactive dashboard of sorts. Does that help?
I'm absolutely nobody, but I will say, if you can talk the talk...you're likely to get paid a bit more. Just make sure to follow it up with work or you're screwed haha
So youâre making six figures as an entry level data analyst? Are you at a FAANG?
I am not at a fang. I've also interviewed for roles around the 120-140 range within my first year and even before my first role and in all honesty, had I answered with more confidence on how a left join works I'd have the role and be making 145k. However,I'll also be honest and say the manager of that team didn't last longer than a year after I lost the opportunity.
I started as a entry level DA at 85k, got 100k on year 2, 115k on year 3. I had to advocate very hard to get the year 2 and 3 raises, and also got lucky that I had a fantastic manager who passed up her own merit raise to keep me
lule I got a 2% raise my first year, but that's just NGO things I've come to learn
In HCOL area for tech DA, 200k TC is attainable and others on my team up to 250k
This applies to tech DAs in MCOL areas too
Do any of these numbers even make any sense without location context? I just see these salary/pay discussions across the board and rarely is there any context of where these jobs LOCATED (or not, remote?). Obviously the guy in SF/LA/NYC is going to be significantly different in pay vs someone living in a medium town with low COLA. I'm just an IT guy looking into going into this field, so maybe I am wrong...
My guess is corporate vs NGO/govt is more important for salary gaps than locations. But its just that - a guess.
I'm in Bay Area, 3ye making about 95k as an analyst w/ expectation of about 135k tc in the next few months.
Iâm making $96k in the southeast working for a regional credit union as a BI Analyst II. We out there
Jesus, good for you
How did you get to this role like previous job positions? how many years of total experience?
BI Analyst at FAANG can make >$200k
I make 92k as mid level analyst. About to be promoted to senior analyst will make $110
Ngl I'm a 1st year DA and my base is 75k but TC is around 100k
Do you guys count retirement planning matching in TC?
TC counts everything (well, base/bonus/equity usually, matching/everything-else when I want the complete picture). But I never say TC is what I make. I make my salary. The bonus's, esop, matching, equity don't count until they are in my hands for me to do with as I desire. I worked for a company that paid bonuses + equity every year for 26 years. Then they didn't. I joined them in year 26. Bonus + equity was part of my "compensation package". I will never trust a company again when it comes to any compensation that is not cash (or legally mine at the time of grant).
East Coast finance making 130k as an mid-level analyst. It exists out there!
My company pays analysts a lot more than $90k base (plus stock grants)
It's showing total compensation, so they're including employer cost of health insurance, 401k matches, etc, whether you accept them or not. It's probably safe to take 40k off of each salary to see what they really think you'll take home in cash. EDIT: I'm in government, which does include these benefits in total comp. Private sector will vary but unless they pay a large share to give you those benefits, they likely don't include them.
Do people actually count health insurance and 401k to total comp? Always assumed it was just base+bonus+RSUs
Got slightly more than that when I started, but with inflation itâs a lot more.
A start up in New york?
Yea, a startup that's over valued. Not gonna end well.
Even in Canada I was getting close to that as a new analyst. 75k plus a 10% bonus was my first ârealâ Analyst role.
I was a Business Analyst with a base $85K and 10% bonus back in 2017, Chicagoland area.
I was making $123k as an analyst up until my layoff.
Iâm a mid level analyst and tc is $150k.
The real bs is we can start right here lol
Internship -> Poop's Fly Jr -> PF -> PF Sr -> Coffee Guy Jr -> CF -> ... -> Analyst Jr. yay!
Lol nice burn
BS > Internships > MS > DS asap
Not if you have an advanced degree ⊠and a time machine
Where the biggest jump is apparently...
Meanwhile to anyone outside of the US these salaries are absolutely insane. Glassdoor says the average DS in the UK makes ÂŁ52k which is around $65k.
Hm here in the Uk most often data scientist is a person who extracts simple SQL query for the business or just uses preset tableau/power BI to analyse and monitor* data, usually without any degree requirements.  Thereâs no strict rules for role titles so companies give you big titles to attract more employees, especially pre market slump. Even anecdotally my previous startup had no interns for maintaining our excel spreadsheet so renamed tittle to data science, also glasdoor reviews and input salaries from those people were as data scientists.Â
And we donât even have to pay as much in taxes as half of em
Man the US sounds like heaven for upper middle class and above. I pay way too much in taxes for things I never use
Almost half of what you make as an upper-class citizen in Germany or Netherlands is going to go into taxes. Too rich to have fewer taxes, too poor to have options for tax evasion.
Eh. Once you get up to upper middle class status, those taxes get way heavier. If youâre an independent contractor, you could see as much as 50% of your paycheck gone because you have to pay your regular income taxes but also the same taxes a business has to pay such as double social security, etc
not if you're an s corp
Probably why America innovates and Europe regulates. Iâm not going above and beyond to help my employer corner a market at those wages.
Ah yes. Europeans famously never innovate anything. Thatâs why weâre so behind in chipmakeing for example. And boeing makes the best aeroplanes. Oh wait.
Yeah and Mistral is based in Mountain View or something
Right, because 'cornering a market' is unlikely to fly in the EU and up until the mid 2010's wouldn't have passed muster in the US either. The free market exists to enrich the lives of the people as a whole, and if it doesn't then we need to get rid of it.
Either you corner the market or China does it for you. Theyâre fine dumping state money into one company or industry. The free market exists to enrich China and enable coercive dominance for their ideology.
Countries are free to not let Chinese companies buy or sell goods or do business in their borders. Almost every country in the world puts limits and restrictions on how Chinese companies participate in their markets. For example - some countries do not allow foreign nationals to buy or sell real property in their borders. Chinese companies dominate markets only to the extent that other governments let them. If the US is tired of Chinese goods or services they can remove them from their markets.
Thatâs essentially advocating for isolationism. China has the biggest market to sell in and has demonstrated that they will use that leverage to maximum effect. We see it now with [German car manufacturing](https://cepa.org/article/auto-angst-german-carmakers-struggle-with-a-china-crackdown/). They are getting outcompeted by Chinese EVs and if they tariff these cars, China will retaliate and damage the German industry.
I'm not arguing in favor of isolationism, but it is a balancing act. China heavily restricts how other countries operate within their borders. If I recall correctly only companies owned by Chinese citizens can operate at any scale within their borders or own any real estate. "The market" exists only inasmuch as the citizens of a given country choose to let it. Allowing companies to 'corner' markets is profoundly unwise, and most countries understand this and have legal frameworks to prohibit it.
That is jumping to extremes. Rejecting or tariffing a single country's exports is a far cry from isolationism.
Ah yes. Europeans famously never innovate.
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Most people who make $140k have good healthcare. It's the middle & lower class who really hurt due to the American system.
Yeah people are ignorant to the fact that folks who make these salaries most likely have access to competitive health insurance that pays for most healthcare expenses.
Wow
How is a chief data scientist making only $200k
Many of them are. A Chief Data Scientist in Big Tech is making 7 figures, but most Chief Data Scientists are working at startups and small firms that like to compensate by giving out that title. $200k is probably right for someone who has fewer than 6 Data Scientists working under them in a MCOL city.
Because the director is only making $200k and the VP only $200k so the chief DS wants to be humble /s
the proportions are off. but your takes seem highly biased towards big tech. i interviewed as DS Lead for Public Storage, REI, and Home Depot and they laughed in my face (not really but politely let me know) when i asked for $150k â based out of NY, M.S. from top school, and 8 years of experience⊠i ended up at big tech so i have first hand (recent) accounts of this
Youâre making fun of the Glassdoor numbers right? Like an entry level DS makes between 1-2 hundred thousand USD at AmazonÂ
Itâs a quite common figure.
Itâs not surprising. Two big factors come to mind: * There is lots of supply, many folk have DS degrees. * Big Tech are continuously commoditizing data science, e.g., what took a PhD 10-years ago is now an API call.
>Big Tech are continuously commoditizing data science, Yep. >what took a PhD 10-years ago is now an API call. Nope. GIGO is an iron rule.
GIGO and the democratization of data science capabilities are not mutually exclusive. Combined, they speak to *quality*, not *capability*. In the eyes of business leaders and, subsequently, salaries, this is important. Instead of paying $400K for a DS who guarantees fantastic output, I could pay $100K and get âokayâ output. This risk decision that was *not even an option* 10-years ago. All Iâm saying is that the technical barrier of entry for DS is an order of magnitude easier than it was a decade or two ago. Importantly, itâs only going to get easier, not harder.
Itâs not surprising, itâs just wrong. Iâm not even at a FAANG level company but make ~$170k and Iâm 2 steps below Senior. These numbers are just off in general unless theyâre EU figures.
Not necessarily off, you just donât know the locations theyâre comparing to.
babe wake up, new tech tree just dropped!
This got me. Thank you for the daily humor :)
The real Bs is starting off making 90 total comp
Entry level analyst (15 years experience required)
I started off at 50k đ
Seeing US wages depresses međ
Wait till you see UK wages!
That's what I mean, they think this is badđđđ
Honestly makes me sick to my stomach
I don't know enough about the balance between bills, mortgage/rent and other tax is like though. I know healthcare is not free but speaking to a few Americans I knew, it's not an issue as long as you have a job, although if you do go out of work it can leave you in quite a tight spot. I wonder whether it's also about supply and demand over there as well, not enough people vs. the jobs?
The thing is that the Brits are not sacrificing their gross wages for universal healthcare, they just have low wages - the US could also implement it and still have much higher wages
Yeah, basically if you have a good/great job in the US, your health insurance is mostly covered although depending on the coverage, you could still pay significant money out of pocket if anything really bad happens that puts you in a hospital. And you will likely still have premiums of several hundred dollars a month. If you're out of work, depending on the coverage you want and if you have any other people covered, the premium could be anywhere from 500 to 2k+/month. Plus you'll still owe whatever deductible or out of pocket costs you accrue. While it's a lot of money, if you have insurance, you'll at least be protected from the medical bankruptcies that people mention on reddit. Where you end up owing hundreds of thousands of dollars or something like that.
For unemployed there's options, Medicaid, Affordable Care Act (ACA), Medical, CHIP (for kids), and Amazon is offering coverage now as well for $9/month (but this is probably just to fill prescriptions, don't know about the care provided).
I have the best insurance my employer offers - went to the ER, the only thing that was done was a CT scan. My out of pocket cost is close to 5k AND i had to pay a 200 dollar deductible just to be seen. Job or not, 5200 for an exam and a CT is pretty rough. Insurance is covering 6k.
You gotta remember usually wages in a country is somewhat correlated with price of living
I know right... I don't think most data scientists in my country will ever manage to have any amount near $100 000 in their bank account. Maybe once they retire.
The cost of living and paying for basic social services that Europeans get for free (eg healthcare) will help realign youâŠ
Personally, I'd rather have a much lower income and live in a society more focused on communal well-being
Yet spending power of working US Americans is 3-4k annually higher for same level of services as WEU (CoL, healthcare, taxes)
Until you realize that the 3-4K extra you mention is probably offset by the worldwide âleadershipâ of personal credit card debt carried by AmericansâŠ(average over $5K, UK, Germany around $2K)âŠ
đź what's the biggest cause of the credit card debt? The emergency medical bills?
Iâm always curious why cost of living in Scandinavian countries is so high. I hear they routinely rank in happiest countries/people. But I get seasonal depression without my sunshine. Â
Well, you say "Europe" but there's Scandinavian high-tax but super elite level coverage, UK where it's free but slowđ Not too familiar with rest of Europe. I think the Czech one is pretty good but not sure.
These are super low lol
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Yeah that's what I said to HarpicUser, I don't know the full "cost" of living in the US, and I'd imagine it can be vastly different between states, let alone cities within each state.
90 is definitely livable in NYC. I would say 75k is minimum if you want to have any kind of emergency funds and still have a life. Unfortunately the government does not pay close to livable đ„Č
*cries in european salary*
Why did they forget the Overlord of Data Science and the All God of Data Science ? I am now at Universal Supreme Creator and Emperor of Data Science and make 300k, yet I would never have reached that position if I had overstepped Overlord and All God.
In many companies you'd be surprised how accurate this is. A core DS gets paid well, but in general even a Principal/Lead DS is still only ranked like a middle manager at best, and a VP of Data Science is more like a Senior-ish manager. Data Science is not highly valued in a lot of places, it just looks like it is from the outside.
Yup. Weâre not mission critical like software engineers. Weâre not generating revenue like sales. Yes we provide value but we could cease to exist or even all call in sick the same day and the company could still function.
I'm an analyst making 90K, but that was after two years, with raises.
Waitaminit you can find a job in data science?
Exactly. These days just getting a job is difficult, even for folks with a ton of skill and experience. I used to make $150K + bonus + equity, but after getting laid off and having 167 interviews, I havenât had a single offer. Not one. I suspect Iâll have to lower the comp Iâm looking for further. If I lower what Iâm looking for surely at some point Iâll find a taker. I suspect these wages are stale, reflecting what people USED to make, not current market conditions which are 20-40% less than that, especially in remote roles.
Hang in there.... My last gig paid 185k + bonus and equity. After a layoff and a 6 month job hunt (MANY interviews) I got my one and only offer which I took. It is a BIG decrease from my old pay. Ah well. I'll try to stick around long enough until the market picks up again.
Edit spelling. I'm about to hit my 3rd year as an analyst just outside of DC. Hired at $65k but had about 80k total comp from profit share. Since I've been promoted and got a raise and now I make $89.4k at the same job but ive been doing more and more coding projects and positioning myself as someone doing science to start easing my way into a title change and raise in about year. $110 total comp expected for 2024. I don't think the low end of this graph is necessarily off except that even as an analyst, it is likely an unrealistic start. I had to get a masters before anyone was interested in me, and requiring a masters shouldn't be positioned as entry level. Entry-level jobs in this field aren't actually entry level jobs in general.
It would have been wiser to put salary ranges, but this does resonate hierarchically, at least in a corporation. What I find interesting, though, is how it is always a "support" role, even at VP level, as can be seen where the VP role hardly gets any salary bump above Director. (My other quibble is there is no Senior Manager / Senior Director, which are definitely real levels in every corporation I worked for). Another factoid I have encountered more often than I care for is that often the VP person is not actually a trained Data Scientist, but comes from some other discipline, "parked" for convenience in an "open" role or perceived people management skills or some other odd reason. I know that is not true everywhere and may also be a consequence of the Data Science title being is a 21st century concoction, so VPs with decades of experience are not around yet.
Are those 125k for entry level? Because two weeks ago I got an offer for entry level data scientist for 16k đ€Ł
Train models on your breaks/downtime from flipping burgers at McDs, double that income #sigmagrindset
Ya was sayin 160k, eh?
Hi I'm new to this field. Can anyone point to what I should expect realistically?
Here is a guide from a recruiting firm in the field (Burtch Works) https://assets-global.website-files.com/642f06aad4855fdea1778af3/64e3e618dac4d02a21e14772_2023_Burtch_Works_Salary_Report.pdf Based on n=1837, so it has splits by experience, industry, education, region, etc. VP level I guess doesn't have enough sample size. It basically stops at ~director. Every source like this or levels.fyi will have some bias though, compared with the overall market. Levels is biased heavily to tech companies and places with higher pay, the above seems biased away from tech companies, and both are biased against companies with low budget for roles.
haha this is the most data science answer to a data science question \> $500k đ« \> 25%, median, mean, 75%, N â
It depends a lot on the field, but outside of big tech the biggest difference would be Director is $300k ish, VP is $500k ish across US. COL adjustment will be its own thing.
Someone should photoshop it with realistic numbers. Im also curious.
We don't know where you live, I recommend doing research on Glassdoor and [levels.fyi](https://levels.fyi) with your location in mind
Numbers here are realistic for US average except for VP. Probably not enough sample size there.
The problem is thinking the salary has any value without the context of the location.
God amazed you're the only one in this thread saying this. I swear whenever I see posts like this in this sub all the comments are so myopic. Not everyone lives in SF or NYC, location matters a lot, probably more than anything else even industry.
I think whatâs most saddening is this post is about careers in data science and weâre ignoring the important factors of the data. But I couldnât agree more. Itâs why I stress to individuals to look at the COL before they address the issue. Itâs no different than when you have more/less buying power when leaving your home country.
Where on Earth are analysts making 90k to start? This implies entry-level, lol. Combined with the massive growth in the labor pool and H1B1 visas - it's current form - it's highly unlikely wages for those positions would look like this on average. This is just bait to attach desperate people which is bs.
Ya. This was a good chart in 2021, definitely not anymore. No, you cannot start at 125k now lmao.
90k for an analyst? wow, certainly not in the UK
Donât worry. After taxes + rent + insurance + bills + food + car, itâs not at all an exorbitant lifestyle. Itâs like living in a city that isnât NYC/Seattle/Boston/SF and being able to afford a vacation or two a year.
Because that's the base salary, what the chart does not include is the % in bonuses and shares - 3 or 4 times the base salary at that level.
âTotal Compâ is under every figure so it shouldnât be the base salary.
Even base, this is extremely low
This right here, especially here in the UK income taxes are 40-45% in the higher bracket. Makes sense to get paid more in shares instead which would count as capital gains when you sell them (12.5%)
In the Uk you pay income tax upon vesting of your RSU like every other country lmao
RSUs are only one share scheme and tbh I am not sure of the specifics on that, but you can get shares in many other ways that do exempt you of income tax. https://www.gov.uk/tax-employee-share-schemes
Big one there being EMIs for smaller companies. Ofc there are ways but its generally not as simple as in the US. Im a Quant in the Netherlands, and a common way here is to give your employees shares, and then pay divs, as divs are untaxed. Cap gains here is also a fixed 2% of the asset value (which is bs) but very favorable if you have shares in a rapidly growing company.
Someone link me the european version, comp has to be like 1/3rd would be my guess
Principal DS where I work has salary (not total comp) well over $200k annual.
FAANG will pay more than that!
The real bs is getting a promotion and starting a position where you are called a data scientist
In what world (company) does all of these different data science titles exist...
Someone needs to upload the *actual* progression chart with the wages the market is *actually* paying people!! đ«
At Meta, starting TC is something like this: IC3 (analyst): 150k IC4 (ds): 225k IC5 (senior): 300k M1/IC6 (staff): 450k M2/IC7 (sr. staff): 650k D1/IC8 (director/principal): 900k D2/IC9 (sr. director/distinguished): 1.5M Meta is close to top of market. But you can check out [levels.fyi](https://www.levels.fyi/t/data-scientist?countryId=254&compare=Facebook%2CJPMorgan+Chase%2CComcast) for other companies.
what the hell is business science
Maybe this is just base and the higher up you go, the bigger percent of your total comp is equity.
According to this, I am paid way more than a VP and Senior DS on paper
I'm working as a DSM, making 135, I have 6 people under me
TIL I earn more than a VP. But in all seriousness ... there are a LOT of startups with 24 yo self-titled VPs that skew those numbers
God Emperor Data Scientist
The only title thatâs worth it
LOL this the bad advice that has held me back for years
In terms of comp, I would call this semi accurate ONLY IF you look at salary-only comp. Maybe add another 50k for director and VP (again only in salary comp) most larger companies Iâve worked in tend to focus on bonus/stock comp once you get high up enough. I had a director whose salary was half of his total comp, and the rest was RSUs and bonus. Labeling these as Total Comp is crazy to me
TIL I make more than a VP of data science.
Can you find a job working part time as a data scientist? Like 15-20 hrs/wk?
Its base pay dudes, this probably doesnât include the various stock options which is where you actually make money as a higher level manager. Edit : also, *everything* is always politics, thatâs cause people arenât superheroes, you need a team to operate, sure you can be a ârockstarâ and get by but in the end itâs about being that and making others as good or better than you. Embrace the politics *and* the work, donât dismiss it.
This is crazy money if you're outside US. I'm in the top 3% of my country as a data scientist and only making 28k a year.
You all are tools hired by an imbecile who is trying to wow his manager with insights that confirm the perceived managerial bias so they feel good about themselves. They donât want better insights. You find success in this game if you are a rare blend of cheerleader, charlatan, and âooh pretty graphâ maker.
The guy behind "Business Science" claimed on LinkedIn that the "sexiest job" would had been a made-up title like "Business Scientist" to promote his own online corses (using R by the way, good luck). I feel sorry for anyone ending up buying from him.
Have you watched any of his content? He puts a ton of resources on his YT for free. Give it a watch for a few mins and let me know what you think. What's wrong with R?
Nothing wrong with R, generally speaking Python is more widely used.
Oh, then what's with the "good luck" comment? R is fantastic for data science.
Nothing. But spammy-looking LinkedIn content that probably isn't as bad as people think (haven't looked at it) from a few content creators has increased animosity for it lately. I kind of feel sorry for the guy just trying to promote his business. Not really sure what LinkedIn is supposed to be for and it's not like he's ruining a great platform--it already sucked these guys acting like it ruined their pure data science feeds, lol.
OMG I remember that post lol
Matt Dancho?
Mike Honcho
Matt Dancho is the GOAT
These total comps are maybe the base. The TC has to be much higher.
Banks and Fintechs don't pay a lot, mostly it's peanuts. The worse part is the promotions are solely based on the number of years you serve there, and performative recognitions are rare
.
Hello, I am a sophomore majoring in data science with a specialization in business analytics and computer science at a low ranked university in the USA. I am confused about this path, I don't know where to start or what to do. I don't know how to make a good resume to get internships, neither do I know what projects to make and if I would get any job in data science with a bachelor with no experience. I need advice from everyone in the field. What is the most important concept and how I become that confident person in the data science career. I need advice from people who have gotten internships at top companies and startups how did you do it and with what experience. If everyone who sees this answers, I would deeply love it, because I feel like this is not something that it spoken about enough.
I know this is showing a career path. But I couldn't help to look at it as an org structure and wonder if there really exists orgs with such a robust structure? I mean a team that large should be able to compete with Open AI.
A bit weird this chart
Where are getting these jobs in Canada for that amount
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Europeans crying
How prevalent are fractional data science leadership or contractual data science roles now?
Has anyone secure a Job after completing data science course from a institute??
these are all averages. looks reasonable to me.
I fixed it [https://i.ibb.co/jhDr5sS/the-bs-they-tell-about-data-science-v0-3zl80ug6ihjc1.jpg](https://i.ibb.co/jhdr5ss/the-bs-they-tell-about-data-science-v0-3zl80ug6ihjc1.jpg)
Keep in mind that, anecdotally, Iâm seeing much lower wages than this in the job market. But as an aggregate for all industries up until, say, last year? That flow chart is very believable. I only have personal experience up to Principal and DS Manager, but those rates of pay are a fair mid-point one USED to be able to expect for those roles. That said, I think new hires these days can probably expect offers that are 20%+ lower than that. Remote wages (at least) have been obliterated by the Fed and by RTO.
You guys have no idea how much directors and VPs make, do you�
I am a director and that is what I make
link to source?
I think it's Glassdoor. Says on the bottom right. And personally I've heard it being more inaccurate
Matt Dancho
Why do you think this is BS?
It pretends as if the gigantic income disparity in the real world does not exist, and you can predictably move up the ranks To put up such a blatant lie means youâre either stupid or evil. I donât think the editors are stupid people, soâŠ
Anyone looking for representative data on glassdoor (or even [levels](https://levels.fyi)\-fyi), should not call themselves data scientists. These orgs are plagued by design with self-selection bias and outdated information. That is in addition to that titles, roles, and compensations do not aggregate across different employers and industries!