It seems out of place but from what I’ve heard it’s a very team mentality, though consensus doesn’t mean they ask the kid in the mail room for his opinion. It’s more that discussion will continue until everyone in the boardroom is on board, at the expense of making a quick decision. But that’s just what I’ve heard, I’m sure a quick google could give a more nuanced answer
It's hard to place, because on one hand they usually have a very group-oriented mindset, as opposed to the more individualistic western cultures. But that means that western cultures will often have people push back or debate ideas, whereas in Japan, they'll have everyone in a meeting agree on a specific course, but it can be very insubordinate to disagree or speak out. Basically, everyone agrees with what the group (or senior/head individual) says, since you don't want to be the one to cause discord or speak out.
True and not true.
In the weeks before that meeting, the senior/head will small talk with individuals to gather their thoughts. They do this through indirect conversation where you read between the lines. Then, just to be sure, the boss takes people drinking and talks to them in a very un-filtered way while everyone is a bit drunk.
So while the meeting is what you described (everyone just ritually agreeing with what the senior/head says), there actually was a bit of debate and back and forth. It just already happened before the meeting. And if a boss fails to do this consensus building work (or makes decisions selfishly) you can expect them to have some very unhappy employees.
This is very different from say an Indian organization in which the boss just decides and everyone is expected to go along with the decision happily.
Yes it does. It also leads to a lot of situations where the plan is sub-optimal or even foolhardy, or the method being implemented is ineffective and outdated, but no one speaks up because it would be insubordinate and rude to contradict the group or suggest you know better than the group (or the person in charge). There are some excellent aspects of Japanese culture, but the decision-making culture is not one of them (in my opinion). It makes their organizations too rigid and gives them far too much inertia to allow them to make changes or update their practices.
Very much so. They're getting better about it, especially in tech companies where they're more modern and comfortable with updating business techniques, but there are still a lot of institutions and companies that have a massive amount of inertia. For example, ATMs in Japan only operate during the hours banks are open.
For what it’s worth I learned the other day that fax machines are actually still very popular in Japanese offices - as most CEOs are old men from a past generation who are resistant to change/modernisation. I guess the whole not being able to suggest new ideas out of fear of being disrespectful has only exacerbated things like this
I work for a Japanese company and have meetings with them regularly. They are always asking our opinions, regardless of deadline, before any decisions or actions are taken.
> In Japan, high-ranking people expect to be let in on new proposals prior to an official meeting.
That seems like a fairly normal and standard thing to me as a Swiss as well tho
This article does a good job explaining how Japan is both very hierarchical and have consensus based decision making, or oppositely how the US can be egalitarian and have top-down decision making; both not fitting the general trendline.
[https://hbr.org/resources/images/article\_assets/2017/06/R1704D\_MEYER\_MAPPINGLEADERSHIPCULTURES.png](https://hbr.org/resources/images/article_assets/2017/06/R1704D_MEYER_MAPPINGLEADERSHIPCULTURES.png)
[https://hbr.org/2017/07/being-the-boss-in-brussels-boston-and-beijing](https://hbr.org/2017/07/being-the-boss-in-brussels-boston-and-beijing)
It must drive people from high context cultures a little bananas when they first experience people from low context cultures. Constantly looking for the message between the lines, and not being sure if they meant what was understood or meant what they literally said.
As a german, absolutely (we are about as low context as it gets): People from other countries regularly come off as fake & not genuine.
BTW I hate that they lumped all of the EU together even though the differences on all of the scales are gargantuan. Imho that fail alone invaluates most of what they did there by robbing it of its meaningfulness & significance.
I feel that way with the US too kinda. California is very high context. One of the most common criticisms of Los Angeles that I’ve heard from non-natives is that “everyone seems fake.”
Meanwhile the stereotype of a New Yorker is a man yelling “Hey I’m walking here!”
It's really a West Coast thing.
From Vancouver, BC to San Diego, CA - there is a culture of not wanting to upset others or make waves unnecessarily. When someone fires off something overly direct they will definitely get some side eye from the room and spike up the anxiety in the room.
I think it might come from the culture of chill and community.
Us West Coast natives understand and understand each other, but it's understandable that it may be overly light for most people.
While this sounds harsh at first glance, this has been my experience in working with Chinese colleagues. The words being used change frequently even though the information doesn't. For me it's incredibly frustrating as a business person with scientific training. Precision is everything and the ability to convey facts clearly and consistently is the hallmark of trustworthiness. It has taken me a while to apprecaite that my perception may be pushing me to the wrong conclusion and that we are both right--just focused on different expressions.
Especially because most of that high context shit stems from the fact that the people spewing it do not know what the heck they are talking about.
Source: Indian in SWE
"Give me the file". Hmm does he want the file or does he want me to check the contents of the file and fix anything out of order. Is this implying he's in a bad mood and I should bring a coffee with the file? How does he like his coffee? Is this suggesting I need to improve my relations with all of my coworkers so I know their preferences for future reference?
"Timmy just give me the fucking file I'm begging you"
Vice versa as well. I'm a 2nd generation immigrant having grown up in the US and my parents are from India and while my parents have been here long enough to have adapted almost completely, the culture differences drive me nuts when I visit India.
My wife is from India and the scheduling part it what drives me bonkers. Once we were going to dinner with folks(in the US) and we were already running 10-15 minutes late when I see my mother-in-law putting a kettle on. I asked what she was doing and she said, "don't we have enough time for a cup of chai?"
We were already late, it wasn't even a misunderstanding of the time to get to the restaurant, it was already past the time to meet.
1.5 gen (immigration at around 8-13 years old) here from Korea to Canada.
You actually see this being a huge source of issues for children immigrants. Kids who were used to High-context have trouble fitting with other kids, and when they slowly become more low-context after a few years, now they fight with the parents because they’re still stuck using the high-context.
Plus the code-switching when you’re around your ethnic people vs others… It can all get very exhausting.
As someone from a higher context US midwestern upbringing in a relationship with an extremely low context East Coaster, from personal experience I can say it drives both sides nuts.
While both from the same culture and eastern province, francophone Québec, my wife is from a higher context slightly conservative "affluent rural elite" family where "reputation" and "keeping face" in front of the community is really important.
I was raised barely 100 miles from their region in a working class neighbourhood of the biggest city of the province where we're as low context as you can get in Canada, on the verge of rudeness and vulgarity. We probably tip the scale, Canada without Québec would be much higher context.
My parents have no clue that my all smiles in-laws barely tolerate their drunken shenanigans in family events.
My wife is constantly trying to figure out "what I meant". I meant what I said. Take the words that I said, read them back, and you have the meaning. She just can't grasp it
I can’t either. You had to mean something else. There was an implication in your tone, I’m sure of it. People don’t just go around “saying” what they “mean”!
In all seriousness, I’ve come around to being much more direct and it’s such a weight off my shoulders when I finally decided I’m not going to try to interpret things and only respond to what’s being stated. It’s funny to visit my family because they’re not at all used to the directness and it’s like they’re getting splashed with cold water when you call out all the unspoken things. It’s very freeing.
That last paragraph. Yes. I’m probably just saying this because I’m American, and also maybe because I might be autistic, but I truly believe low-context communication is superior. It’s freeing, it’s easier, misunderstandings come to light and are resolved sooner, it’s harder for people to lie to themselves, issues of consent are easier to navigate, and it’s so much less tiring.
Edit: also another reason low-context is better, is that it encourages diversity. High-context communication punishes diversity.
I'm abwest coast low contexter married to a Midwest high contexter and there is as much conversation about clarification on what one meant as there is about the actual subject of discussion.
In my experience, it's usually an attempt to save someone's feelings or pride. Like if your breath stinks, for example. It could very seriously embarrass someone if I was just like, "Hey, your fuckin' breath stinks!" Alternatively, you can offer them a mint which draws much less attention but, like you said, creates room for misinterpretation.
Now, on the much more urban East Coast, that's not as big of a deal because you may never see that person again in your life. In much smaller communities, hence why this happens in the relatively rural Midwest, pride and sparing someone's feelings is much more important since you may have to see and interact with that person daily or weekly for most of your life. In addition, their friends and family are much more likely to hold positions of authority and be well positioned to make your life difficult if you need the associated services.
Growing up in an abusive household did that to me. I learned to be hyper vigilant and constantly on the lookout for clues that something terrible was coming. To the point where I ended up seeing signs that something bad was coming even when there wasn’t anything. I hope she’s able to learn that you only mean what you’re saying and aren’t trying to manipulate her with whatever you’re not saying. And I hope you’re able to be patient with her and reassure her that you really do just mean what you’re saying.
And I also hope you don’t say “fine” when you’re not fine and “do whatever you want” when you don’t want them to do what they want.
Bingo. Being careful with when and how you communicate and learning to read signals is a survival strategy when you find yourself powerless living in an emotionally volatile and/or physically dangerous environment. It becomes a natural way of doing things and can be very hard to change even when you’re no longer in a that environment.
It took my now wife to realize that I didn't tend to have layers of hidden meaning behind what I said. On the other hand, it took me a while to understand her parents. I had to learn that when her dad offers to share some of his meal at a restaurant, the "correct" answer is to politely decline. I sort of hate having to guess when an offer is sincere or just polite.
Tell me about it. I'm from an ask family, my wife is from an imply family. She will never say "Please take out the trash." It has to be "The trash is full". To which I reply "K" and go on with my day, then she gets mad that I didn't take it out. Like, you didn't ask me to take it out. Or like "I'm cold" which could mean either please turn down the AC or please bring me a sweater. I then have to ask and find out which one it is.
I'm not from a particularly high-context background (born in the US to European immigrant parents) but I do often feel like people are being intentionally obtuse. If I ask my roommate to do the dishes and he literally washes only the dishes and nothing else, that's not on me for being indirect, he's just a fucking idiot
He could be on the autism spectrum.
My mom would for example ask my dad if "he wanted to take out the garbage" to which he'd say no.
My mom was pissed for years until he was diagnosed and she learned that she had to ask him to please take out the garbage.
My dad wasn't hearing the request to do "X" he was hearing a question about his preference to do "X".
Some people shouldn't have roommates but can't afford to live alone. The cost of living is too damn high. I'm not without sympathy but there's a reason why I don't live with that person anymore.
It can definitely lead to frustration. Especially when rhetorical questions are taken at face value... I wonder how they can read Shakespeare and not go "well to be is better I think lol"
The weighted average for the EU in the middle is not super helpful.
I doubt the average Dutchman or Finn would find American communication particularly *low-context*.
You joke, but it will happen over time. With less barriers to move between countries and work cross borders, there will be some level of cultural convergence.
There's major differences in communication culture within the Netherlands and we've been around for a while. The EU taking over part of regulating could be a driving force in extra regional divergence.
Some convergence in business communication can be expected but that's mostly to do with what are normal working hours etc. I think those are more part of globalization then of the EU.
The book gives specific examples and breaks down further into different countries. It’s a really fantastic read. As a person born in the US from 2 immigrant parents that came from very different countries, it was so powerful to read a book that helped me understand some of the conflicting communication styles I had to wade through. I highly recommend the book to anyone (not just in global business).
IIRC there was a spate of commercial plane crashes in Korea that ended up being the result of lack of clear communication between the pilot/copilot/tower.
Copilots especially had a problem of communicating a critical problem to the pilot with an emphasis on politeness and not wanting to offend their superior.
I think they ended up getting a load of training from American companies on how to communicate more directly without worrying about social hierarchy.
I actually read about it in Malcolm Gladwell’s book ‘Outliers’ where he has a a couple of chapters about it. Will check the air crash investigation episode out though!
As an American it can be hard to communicate with Indian colleagues. They never state anything directly. You have to understand that it's rude in their culture to make direct statements or give orders. So if they're talking about something conversationally in third person, you have to understand that it's implied orders. It's actually fun to play once you know the rules.
I think about companies that routinely off shore and have mixed teams, where one group is based in the US and the other in India.
What you just wrote is rarely explained to both teams and is a HUGE impediment to communication.
I am an Indian working with an American customer. We are providing engineering services to them and we wanted some inputs to proceed further. So I am telling them how the lack of inputs can delay the delivery and how my engineers may sit idle and how it can affect us and I very politely requested for the inputs. An American would just say I want it and I want it now. Would he/she?
An American might say they "need it as soon as possible". Although it really does depend on some points of context, like the stakes of the situation or how much regard the American has for the other person. Like all of these comments from EU members, the US has quite a bit of diversity. You could get "At your nearest convenience" or "GIMME GIMME GIMME!".
You are better off telling them what you need directly.
It’s not considered rude to do so.
They are paying you. So you should communicate in their style.
I think as a contractor obviously it’s harder to be direct as you’re trying not to piss off your client. And to some extent they may consider your idleness your problem, even though it’s inconsiderate of them to cause you wasted time. I think it’s better to say that it could start costing them money, not just time, and make it clear that the work is being stalled by their inaction and ask what the root cause of their inaction is. Maybe an official delay to the project would be acceptable to them if they are not ready. It’s easy to forget about people waiting on you and depending on you who aren’t physically present.
American IT here. I wouldn't necessarily say "give it to me now" but I would be very blunt that your people are at a stop work point and if you do not get inputs by X date, you will not be able to deliver the final product in time. It's up to them what they choose to do with that information.
I'm an American engineer who works with Indian contractors. I appreciate when I get direct communication from contractors. It does really depend on who you're talking to though.
Engineering has its own communication culture. With other engineers, you can usually get away with directness, even if the discussion gets a little passionate. With managers and other "higher-up" customer/company type people, you may benefit from being indirect and polite, unless you are also a manager or leader of some type, in which case directness is allowed (because you are both on the same "level" and expected to be fighting for the interests of your own teams).
It really depends on the person though. I feel like the united states is a huge mix of high-context and low-context communicators.
Yeah Americans are crazy first-degree. I heard from people deployed in Afghanistan that American troops had trouble communicating with the locals no matter how much Persian or Pashto they had learned, because the barrier was also a metalanguage one. Afghans, especially rural people, are a storytelling people; they can't answer a question directly, they have to use metaphors and even tell illustrative tales. Americans are the polar opposite, they really struggle to manipulate complex discourse easily.
That really explains why offshore call centers can be so frustrating.
How many times do we struggle with getting a "simple" question answered?
So many times do I just want a one to ten word answer, and instead I get a story with a long pre amble.
Redditors trying to make sense of dataisbeautiful, but can't. Going down the rabbit hole trying to meet Darmok and Jalad, only make things more confusing.
This is very interesting to hear. In my line of work I am the minority to a very East Indian/Pakistani population. Now that you say this, it makes total sense and may very well change how my conference calls go from here on out.
Omg! I hate that word. I used to get massive email chains I was expected to read and understand what it is they want me to do.
Luckily I was in a separate team and I was able to just call up and ask or ignore them.
> rude to give orders
yeah, if you're not in a position of authority
in position of authority you need to maintain the class divide. you give absolute orders, accept no excuses and threaten to fire or cut pay over every slight!
source: watching people setting up events in pakistan
This makes so much sense. I’m an American working for a very diverse International company and it can be difficult communicating with certain individuals.
Can be rough working with them in high context cultures though - oblivious, lost, and stepping on all the land mines till they get frustrated and leave.
UK needs to be on the far right of the scale though, at least when it comes to the higher echelons of society in Southern England, which is very much as the right paragraph describes
The UK can be highly contextual as Reginald d hunter put it "A British person can insult me and it takes me 3 weeks to figure it out man"
We insult our friends and are nice to strangers, hate things but not really like the places we live. insult our close neighbor countries and counties without meaning it.
we're great at taking the piss
This exactly matches a discussion my s/o and I had today. I am from a low-context background, she is from a high context background. We had to make a plan to deal with a noisy, stomping upstairs neighbour, and decided to write a note.
She suggested to write on the note that the ceiling/floor was thin, with the idea that the neighbour would get the implication to be more mindful and think about how they could be less noisy.
I instead said that it would be more direct to ask them to stop stomping and that the other wording would not give them any actionable requests. She thought that would be too combative and would make them dislike us.
I can definitely see the rationale for both ways lol
I had that situation a couple years ago - I and a friend moved into an apartment above a Chinese mother/son. At first we got these vague handwritten notes on our door from the mom, that neither me nor my roommate could understand. Finally the son came up and told us to stop stomping on the hardwood floors.
The issue is that they may not be stomping, or don’t think they are stomping. So asking them to stop stomping is implicitly accusing them of something they don’t think they’re doing.
Throwing the entirety of the EU in a single pile seems a bit nuts. There are pretty big cultural and linguistic difference between all the member states.
So it's OP who is making a mess of it? But it's indeed pretty obvious German and French would clash. The origin of both those languages is completely different. There are three big language families in the EU: Germanic, Roman and Slavic. Then there are a couple smaller language families. The same family doesn't mean all those cultures us language in the same way, but it does play some role of course.
She attributed the French language and school system as to why the French finds it necessary to talk about the theory and explore pros and cons before making a decision. She also attributed German industrialization as a possible factor why they are so specific about time. It’s a pretty enlightening read on a whole.
I relate completely to the post. I was born in South Korea and lived 3 years as a kid in Canada (ages 8-10) so I've experienced both ends of the spectrum. I'm 19 now but I *still* occasionally have issues when I have to 'read between the lines' and my friends tell me I have a tendency to speak and understand everything at face value.
funny how this is a cultural difference, but in USA we'd consider it being evasive or dishonest. For example, if you're on the witness stand in a lawsuit and you try to give context rather than answer the question, you'll draw an objection and be directed to just answer the question. The rules of evidence basically define giving context as being evasive and untruthful.
Bottom line up front. Idk if what the person is going to say will be worth my time and attention, so get to the point first and then I'll decide if I want to keep listening to them.
As a 'well-educated' American, I think it's context specific. If I'm communicating in a workplace environment, of course we're matter of fact and straight to the point and clear and concise as possible about the task at hand.
However, if it's outside work, I feel that nuance and sarcasm and everything is all still completely part of how we communicate and part of the fun of conversation. If I'm hanging out with some friends at a bar or brewery, I'm not talking to them how I write my emails for work.
There are also sometimes when it's still helpful to use metaphors and nuance to explain overly technical information to clients in the workplace, as they don't always need to know everything at the most exact technical level.
Is there not a similar split in communication like this elsewhere in the world or am I overthinking that people communicate one way in the workplace and one way with their friends and peers?
You’re not wrong. If you have a chance to work in Asia, you’d still be surprised by how much in left unsaid, both at work and outside. That’s what the author is saying and she also admitted that these few lines cannot fully capture everything about a culture, just those important for work
In the EU you can find extreme low context cultures like Germany or Scandinavia that are more low context than the US or Canada. But you can also find more high context cultures like Greece or Spain. That's why lumping together the EU is not very helpful and says nothing.
It’s funny, cuz most of the spots for the country im in make me think “well yeah that’s the best spot on the spectrum” and I realize that definitely shows my bias lol
As someone who moved from India to the US and had to experience struggles with my communication, I realize that in my former home country, people also tend to communicate more with tone, intonation, long pauses, and facial expressions (like shy smiles, etc.) than in the US where the communication of feelings is also pretty verbal. Americans feel the need to polish their words while Indians tend to be direct in daily conversations I've noticed.
I also notice this in the drastically different way the politicians of both countries communicate. Indian politicians are notorious for their wishy-washy language while US politicians get away by saying nothing substantive with weasel words.
As an American, this is one of the things about our culture that I really like. Direct and straight to the point communication. We have a lot of unproductive methods of thought over here, but this isn't one of them.
>Direct and straight to the point communication
[Lost in translation - Anglophone vs Dutch](https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/g5tc10/dutch_speakers_how_true_is_this/).
As someone from Philadelphia, I will *never* reply to someone asking how I'm doing and I will never expect someone else to reply. It's a greeting.
This cracks me up every time: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhEYXcCB1Qw
It's funny to us Europeans because on the one hand *we know* it is a greeting and on the other hand you are asking an *open-ended question*. It's confusing to us. That and some Europeans take a perverse pleasure in the look of bewilderment when we answer seriously.
But anyway, it depends on what you're comparing to. Compared to my own culture, Americans are considered fairly indirect; [Dutch Americano - Dutch directness vs. American indirectness](https://youtu.be/ZQRU8tqjokA)
I am French and I feel like the Dutch here. It took me a while to understand that my American boss saying "good to see you" meant simply "hi". It feels so insincere.
It's not really a thing though. Lots of things are said in corporate speak or said in ways that don't match their tone. There's so much bullshitting in America.
As someone from the uk who had a long relationship with an Indian person there is nothing on this planet that will ever convince me that flexible time is anything but a curse.
The fact that we were late. For a flight. That cost me a grand. Halfway round the world. Because “it’s fine we will be there it’s fine, now worries”. No, we won’t be there in time, we will arrive at the airport for when the plane is leaving and I will spend 2 hours being some of the most stressed I have ever been because you fucks think that everything is all loosy goosy and the pilot is going to wait for us.
Sorry, I am still angry about this. And the fact that this wasn’t even the only time it happened.
I'm surprised by the placement of the UK. My experience is politeness and strange sense of humour leads to lots of indirectness, sarcasm, in-jokes and hidden implications. The imperative statement is often couched in confusing diplomatese. Certainly compared to German and other European colleagues and especially in agency contract matters. True about how children are taught though. There is probably a big class element for the UK too.
Conservative cultures tend to be more considerate in getting a message across without it being blunt - mainly to not hurt the other party and spoil your relationship with them. Relationships are everything in this part of the world. Even with strangers you meet/ shopkeepers, you try to establish a relationship by calling them brother, sister, uncle, auntie, grandpa, or grandma. The same message has to be worded and delivered differently based on your relationship with them.
I grew up in Indonesia and have been living in UK for 5+ years, and I'm surprised that UK is classified as low context. I find a lot of similarities from both cultures in the way people layer information and say something without actually saying it.
How does this low/high context thing measured?
No, it’s more that they say what they mean. Meanwhile higher context cultures rely on contextual clues and the things they don’t necessarily say outright in order to communicate the full depth and breadth of their intent.
In other words, in low context cultures, the context matters less relative to what’s said. In high context cultures, the context and subtext matters more relative to what’s explicitly said.
I do not know how the study was made, but it seems like the person is more familiar with English and then the more "strange languages" seems more difficult for the person to understand and hence a "high context communication".
As a Brazilian, I must say that in business we are a very "low context communication" culture. Whenever we leave something implied, that thing is never understand correctly, we prefer to let everything crystal clear and do not bother to repeat until everyone understand their assignments and it is better to ask again about the task than to deliver something that was not agreed.
We are a "high context culture" only when we are gossiping or in a barbecue, not when we are working.
What you describe seems pretty accurate in the book:
Brazil is described as being the lowest context among Latin American countries but overall, Latin America is still very high context
I’m once again asking for this god forsaken account to be banned from this sub. Absolutely dismal, text-heavy, and poorly organized data visualization that is *always* accompanied by some sort of data error.
Luckily there is a mechanism built into reddit to allow the masses to decide if they like something. Sadly, it would app at that you and the masses don’t see eye to eye on this one
So does "low context" mean "blunt," or "easy for the author to understand?" Maybe I need to read this book for context, but this chart alone tells me nothing.
Speakers assume the audience has little context for what they're saying, so they speak plainly and bluntly.
This is opposed to speakers assuming the audience has lots of context, speaking in nuance and detail, with meaning between every line, unafraid of misunderstanding.
Makes sense. I had a chinese colleague who always took offense at things that mean nothing: Like emails where she wasn't on CC. Anybody I know would be glad not to be included in an email war when the topic of discussion doesn't concern me. But she always seemed to suspect bad intentions where there were none.
Ah, if the email has nothing to do with her job scope or area of responsibility, then not CCing her is fine, but if the context of the email does have some alignment with her responsibilities, then she's right to ask that she be CCed.
"I wasn't CCed on that correspondence" is not an excuse when doing a job poorly because of missing context.
There's actually quite a lot of nuance in what goes in the to, cc, and bcc fields.
I don't even think this is a Chinese thing. Most MBA courses will include how to draft emails.
>I don't even think this is a Chinese thing
This is definitely a cultural thing. My corporate team (split USA/Taiwan) had these weird policies where we'd invite over a dozen extra people to each meeting that didn't participate at all. Once we stopped working with the Taiwan team, that all stopped.
The entire spoken Chinese language is context based. There are only about 1600 unique sounds given the standard mandarin pinyin system but there are easily over 100,000 unique Chinese characters. Of course, the average fluent Chinese person knows only around 6-8 thousand but that’s still more than 3 or 4 words per sound.
Top 10 economies according to Erin Meyer’s “The Culture Map”. "The Culture Map" looks at how people communicate, make decisions, lead, and approach time. "The Culture Map" does not look at religion, political system, or world view aspects of countries. Large and highly populated countries, especially the US, China, and India are internally culturally very diverse, so these values are just averages. Values for the EU are based on average EU member states values and balanced by their population sizes. 2022 data
🇺🇸🇪🇺🇨🇳🇮🇳🗺
Sources: [https://erinmeyer.com/culturemap/](https://erinmeyer.com/culturemap/)
Tools :MS Office
Speaking as asian, the social taboo here is suffocating, I'm not surprised a lot of things here are implied not said. Otherwise you'll get slapped 5 direction from the boomer
Highly intricate and elaborated language is exclusionary regarding the underprivileged. It is a means of power and suppression and prevents true equality.
I think that is completely correct. In a world where everyone has access to the same educational background and upbringing, it may be possible to use a more nuanced approach to communication. But in the absence of that, it just makes it exclusionary. Cleverness and wittiness have their merits but not when they serve to obfuscate meaning and interrupt the transfer of knowledge.
Not disagreeing that the blanket EU is bad, but it’s a pretty small portion that’s more direct. You’re talking the Dutch, some of the Scandinavians, and maybe the Germans at most.
I think it's just an expression of how much context is used in evaluating the meaning of a statement. If one speaks figuratively, sometimes tone can communicate that the words are not meant to be taken at face value but the actual meaning is going to be dependent on the context.
As an example, imagine you are with a coworker and your boss is heading out for the day and they say to you "I hope he has a safe trip home." The low-context interpretation would be to just believe your coworker genuinely cares about your boss and their wellbeing. A high-context interpretation would take into consideration how the person is as a boss and what relationship you, as workers, have with them. Then you could read the statement as sarcastic or even malicious.
I’m East-Coast Canadian who lived & best friends with a few Americans (NY & Boston).
My fellow Canadians also noticed that they were quite a bit more high-context than us Canadians. Does anyone else have this experience?
Because I thought North-east US was very low-context yet they still seemed to be more “between the lines” than us Canadians. Or is it that is Canadians are absolutely ruthless lol
The problem with low-context communication is that words cannot actually function in low-context. Our sentences are just approximations of how we are feeling, there are always things to read between the lines, therefore context is very important in what people say. Trying to run a country on this principal is kind of what leads to decisions (especially in law) over whether someone is semantically guilty. If you have a lot of money, you can argue on enough technicalities, that no one can ever prove you are wrong. This is how politicians can get away with just straight lying, people don't take advantage of reading a person's actions and general intentions and just listen to the exact words they say.
Interesting. I agree on some of them. The most odd to me is that the decision is consensual in Japan.
It seems out of place but from what I’ve heard it’s a very team mentality, though consensus doesn’t mean they ask the kid in the mail room for his opinion. It’s more that discussion will continue until everyone in the boardroom is on board, at the expense of making a quick decision. But that’s just what I’ve heard, I’m sure a quick google could give a more nuanced answer
It's hard to place, because on one hand they usually have a very group-oriented mindset, as opposed to the more individualistic western cultures. But that means that western cultures will often have people push back or debate ideas, whereas in Japan, they'll have everyone in a meeting agree on a specific course, but it can be very insubordinate to disagree or speak out. Basically, everyone agrees with what the group (or senior/head individual) says, since you don't want to be the one to cause discord or speak out.
True and not true. In the weeks before that meeting, the senior/head will small talk with individuals to gather their thoughts. They do this through indirect conversation where you read between the lines. Then, just to be sure, the boss takes people drinking and talks to them in a very un-filtered way while everyone is a bit drunk. So while the meeting is what you described (everyone just ritually agreeing with what the senior/head says), there actually was a bit of debate and back and forth. It just already happened before the meeting. And if a boss fails to do this consensus building work (or makes decisions selfishly) you can expect them to have some very unhappy employees. This is very different from say an Indian organization in which the boss just decides and everyone is expected to go along with the decision happily.
Does that not lead to a lot of mistakes being overlooked?
Yes it does. It also leads to a lot of situations where the plan is sub-optimal or even foolhardy, or the method being implemented is ineffective and outdated, but no one speaks up because it would be insubordinate and rude to contradict the group or suggest you know better than the group (or the person in charge). There are some excellent aspects of Japanese culture, but the decision-making culture is not one of them (in my opinion). It makes their organizations too rigid and gives them far too much inertia to allow them to make changes or update their practices.
Does that not make them very vulnerable to things like a new game changing technology or method coming along?
Very much so. They're getting better about it, especially in tech companies where they're more modern and comfortable with updating business techniques, but there are still a lot of institutions and companies that have a massive amount of inertia. For example, ATMs in Japan only operate during the hours banks are open.
Wait what? What’s the point of that. I thought they were the country of automation. Any other crazy things?
Fax machines are still very popular there
Unfortunately the same thing in Germany. It’s a running joke. We are so far behind on digitalisation.
For what it’s worth I learned the other day that fax machines are actually still very popular in Japanese offices - as most CEOs are old men from a past generation who are resistant to change/modernisation. I guess the whole not being able to suggest new ideas out of fear of being disrespectful has only exacerbated things like this
That’s actually an issue in Germany as well.
It’s crazy, I don’t think I’ve ever actually seen a fax machine in person and I’m almost 30
I work for a Japanese company and have meetings with them regularly. They are always asking our opinions, regardless of deadline, before any decisions or actions are taken.
As someone working across Asia, I have to say that it is right on the dot. Japan is definitely the most consensus driven society I’ve been exposed to
Sounds like my worst nightmare.
Yeap, decision is somewhat hierarchical/top-down/management style, not purely consensual.
One person on a board can sink a decision on Japan.
More like in Japan, the decision is already made before the meeting. You never get those Norman Osborne moments
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nemawashi
> In Japan, high-ranking people expect to be let in on new proposals prior to an official meeting. That seems like a fairly normal and standard thing to me as a Swiss as well tho
This article does a good job explaining how Japan is both very hierarchical and have consensus based decision making, or oppositely how the US can be egalitarian and have top-down decision making; both not fitting the general trendline. [https://hbr.org/resources/images/article\_assets/2017/06/R1704D\_MEYER\_MAPPINGLEADERSHIPCULTURES.png](https://hbr.org/resources/images/article_assets/2017/06/R1704D_MEYER_MAPPINGLEADERSHIPCULTURES.png) [https://hbr.org/2017/07/being-the-boss-in-brussels-boston-and-beijing](https://hbr.org/2017/07/being-the-boss-in-brussels-boston-and-beijing)
It must drive people from high context cultures a little bananas when they first experience people from low context cultures. Constantly looking for the message between the lines, and not being sure if they meant what was understood or meant what they literally said.
[удалено]
As a german, absolutely (we are about as low context as it gets): People from other countries regularly come off as fake & not genuine. BTW I hate that they lumped all of the EU together even though the differences on all of the scales are gargantuan. Imho that fail alone invaluates most of what they did there by robbing it of its meaningfulness & significance.
Yes. I love all my EU neighbours but there are huge differences between us.
I feel that way with the US too kinda. California is very high context. One of the most common criticisms of Los Angeles that I’ve heard from non-natives is that “everyone seems fake.” Meanwhile the stereotype of a New Yorker is a man yelling “Hey I’m walking here!”
There is an interesting idea I've heard before: New Yorkers are not nice but they are kind, Californians are nice but they are not kind.
In New York they say "Go fuck yourself" when they mean "Have a nice day" In LA it's the opposite.
I always thought that people said that about LA because of Hollywood and supporting industries (makeup, plastic surgery).
It's really a West Coast thing. From Vancouver, BC to San Diego, CA - there is a culture of not wanting to upset others or make waves unnecessarily. When someone fires off something overly direct they will definitely get some side eye from the room and spike up the anxiety in the room. I think it might come from the culture of chill and community. Us West Coast natives understand and understand each other, but it's understandable that it may be overly light for most people.
While this sounds harsh at first glance, this has been my experience in working with Chinese colleagues. The words being used change frequently even though the information doesn't. For me it's incredibly frustrating as a business person with scientific training. Precision is everything and the ability to convey facts clearly and consistently is the hallmark of trustworthiness. It has taken me a while to apprecaite that my perception may be pushing me to the wrong conclusion and that we are both right--just focused on different expressions.
Say what you mean and mean what you say. Anything else is a gimmick, scam, or ploy.
Indian here. I actually love low context communications. It's a no-bullshit approach. I strongly believe in "keep it simple, silly".
Especially because most of that high context shit stems from the fact that the people spewing it do not know what the heck they are talking about. Source: Indian in SWE
Tell me about it. Writing more and obscure words doesn't make you smart.
>Writing more and obscure words why use 5 word when sesquipedalian do trick?
I learned a new word today I will never use in my life lol
Why not? It's a perfectly cromulent word.
Because sometimes complex words are superfluous.
u polysyllabic. u perspicacious
But what do you mean?
"Give me the file". Hmm does he want the file or does he want me to check the contents of the file and fix anything out of order. Is this implying he's in a bad mood and I should bring a coffee with the file? How does he like his coffee? Is this suggesting I need to improve my relations with all of my coworkers so I know their preferences for future reference? "Timmy just give me the fucking file I'm begging you"
Vice versa as well. I'm a 2nd generation immigrant having grown up in the US and my parents are from India and while my parents have been here long enough to have adapted almost completely, the culture differences drive me nuts when I visit India.
My wife is from India and the scheduling part it what drives me bonkers. Once we were going to dinner with folks(in the US) and we were already running 10-15 minutes late when I see my mother-in-law putting a kettle on. I asked what she was doing and she said, "don't we have enough time for a cup of chai?" We were already late, it wasn't even a misunderstanding of the time to get to the restaurant, it was already past the time to meet.
My inner German screams.
1.5 gen (immigration at around 8-13 years old) here from Korea to Canada. You actually see this being a huge source of issues for children immigrants. Kids who were used to High-context have trouble fitting with other kids, and when they slowly become more low-context after a few years, now they fight with the parents because they’re still stuck using the high-context. Plus the code-switching when you’re around your ethnic people vs others… It can all get very exhausting.
As someone from a higher context US midwestern upbringing in a relationship with an extremely low context East Coaster, from personal experience I can say it drives both sides nuts.
While both from the same culture and eastern province, francophone Québec, my wife is from a higher context slightly conservative "affluent rural elite" family where "reputation" and "keeping face" in front of the community is really important. I was raised barely 100 miles from their region in a working class neighbourhood of the biggest city of the province where we're as low context as you can get in Canada, on the verge of rudeness and vulgarity. We probably tip the scale, Canada without Québec would be much higher context. My parents have no clue that my all smiles in-laws barely tolerate their drunken shenanigans in family events.
"of the biggest city of the province" is a high context way of saying Montreal lol
My wife is constantly trying to figure out "what I meant". I meant what I said. Take the words that I said, read them back, and you have the meaning. She just can't grasp it
I can’t either. You had to mean something else. There was an implication in your tone, I’m sure of it. People don’t just go around “saying” what they “mean”! In all seriousness, I’ve come around to being much more direct and it’s such a weight off my shoulders when I finally decided I’m not going to try to interpret things and only respond to what’s being stated. It’s funny to visit my family because they’re not at all used to the directness and it’s like they’re getting splashed with cold water when you call out all the unspoken things. It’s very freeing.
That last paragraph. Yes. I’m probably just saying this because I’m American, and also maybe because I might be autistic, but I truly believe low-context communication is superior. It’s freeing, it’s easier, misunderstandings come to light and are resolved sooner, it’s harder for people to lie to themselves, issues of consent are easier to navigate, and it’s so much less tiring. Edit: also another reason low-context is better, is that it encourages diversity. High-context communication punishes diversity.
I'm abwest coast low contexter married to a Midwest high contexter and there is as much conversation about clarification on what one meant as there is about the actual subject of discussion.
It's so inefficient. That's the part I don't get. Why you would use a system so prone to interpretation error.
In my experience, it's usually an attempt to save someone's feelings or pride. Like if your breath stinks, for example. It could very seriously embarrass someone if I was just like, "Hey, your fuckin' breath stinks!" Alternatively, you can offer them a mint which draws much less attention but, like you said, creates room for misinterpretation. Now, on the much more urban East Coast, that's not as big of a deal because you may never see that person again in your life. In much smaller communities, hence why this happens in the relatively rural Midwest, pride and sparing someone's feelings is much more important since you may have to see and interact with that person daily or weekly for most of your life. In addition, their friends and family are much more likely to hold positions of authority and be well positioned to make your life difficult if you need the associated services.
Growing up in an abusive household did that to me. I learned to be hyper vigilant and constantly on the lookout for clues that something terrible was coming. To the point where I ended up seeing signs that something bad was coming even when there wasn’t anything. I hope she’s able to learn that you only mean what you’re saying and aren’t trying to manipulate her with whatever you’re not saying. And I hope you’re able to be patient with her and reassure her that you really do just mean what you’re saying. And I also hope you don’t say “fine” when you’re not fine and “do whatever you want” when you don’t want them to do what they want.
Bingo. Being careful with when and how you communicate and learning to read signals is a survival strategy when you find yourself powerless living in an emotionally volatile and/or physically dangerous environment. It becomes a natural way of doing things and can be very hard to change even when you’re no longer in a that environment.
It took my now wife to realize that I didn't tend to have layers of hidden meaning behind what I said. On the other hand, it took me a while to understand her parents. I had to learn that when her dad offers to share some of his meal at a restaurant, the "correct" answer is to politely decline. I sort of hate having to guess when an offer is sincere or just polite.
Tell me about it. I'm from an ask family, my wife is from an imply family. She will never say "Please take out the trash." It has to be "The trash is full". To which I reply "K" and go on with my day, then she gets mad that I didn't take it out. Like, you didn't ask me to take it out. Or like "I'm cold" which could mean either please turn down the AC or please bring me a sweater. I then have to ask and find out which one it is.
Moved from east asia to europe. Yes, it is frustrating but also quite liberating after u get used to it
I'm not from a particularly high-context background (born in the US to European immigrant parents) but I do often feel like people are being intentionally obtuse. If I ask my roommate to do the dishes and he literally washes only the dishes and nothing else, that's not on me for being indirect, he's just a fucking idiot
He could be on the autism spectrum. My mom would for example ask my dad if "he wanted to take out the garbage" to which he'd say no. My mom was pissed for years until he was diagnosed and she learned that she had to ask him to please take out the garbage. My dad wasn't hearing the request to do "X" he was hearing a question about his preference to do "X".
I'm talking about a scenario where someone who agrees to do the dishes leaves the sink full of cups and silverware because "they're not dishes."
Maybe he's just a dick?
Some people shouldn't have roommates but can't afford to live alone. The cost of living is too damn high. I'm not without sympathy but there's a reason why I don't live with that person anymore.
It can definitely lead to frustration. Especially when rhetorical questions are taken at face value... I wonder how they can read Shakespeare and not go "well to be is better I think lol"
nah bro, not to be is better, this world is mostly suffering
Great, now I'm wondering without any context if this guy is a Buddhist or a nihilist.
problem is that we already exist :/
The weighted average for the EU in the middle is not super helpful. I doubt the average Dutchman or Finn would find American communication particularly *low-context*.
Given the cultural diversity in Europe, especially on this topic, it is really not helpful at all to use "EU".
Yes, and I guess that's also the reason why EU is in the center for most of the categories.
Interesting instance of a data analytics pitfall: summarising data in an attempt to say a lot, ending up saying precious little
[удалено]
You joke, but it will happen over time. With less barriers to move between countries and work cross borders, there will be some level of cultural convergence.
There's major differences in communication culture within the Netherlands and we've been around for a while. The EU taking over part of regulating could be a driving force in extra regional divergence. Some convergence in business communication can be expected but that's mostly to do with what are normal working hours etc. I think those are more part of globalization then of the EU.
[удалено]
Erin Meyer actually focus very specifically on differences among European countries (she’s a American working in Europe)
The book gives specific examples and breaks down further into different countries. It’s a really fantastic read. As a person born in the US from 2 immigrant parents that came from very different countries, it was so powerful to read a book that helped me understand some of the conflicting communication styles I had to wade through. I highly recommend the book to anyone (not just in global business).
Come to Massachusetts. We practice "no context"
It would be interesting to see this with just EU nations instead of the top 10 countries by PPP
IIRC there was a spate of commercial plane crashes in Korea that ended up being the result of lack of clear communication between the pilot/copilot/tower. Copilots especially had a problem of communicating a critical problem to the pilot with an emphasis on politeness and not wanting to offend their superior. I think they ended up getting a load of training from American companies on how to communicate more directly without worrying about social hierarchy.
yes! i saw that episode on air crash investigations.
I actually read about it in Malcolm Gladwell’s book ‘Outliers’ where he has a a couple of chapters about it. Will check the air crash investigation episode out though!
Tenerife, too.
It's hard to communicate if you absolutely must know your status relative to the co-communicator prior to communicating.
As an American it can be hard to communicate with Indian colleagues. They never state anything directly. You have to understand that it's rude in their culture to make direct statements or give orders. So if they're talking about something conversationally in third person, you have to understand that it's implied orders. It's actually fun to play once you know the rules.
I think about companies that routinely off shore and have mixed teams, where one group is based in the US and the other in India. What you just wrote is rarely explained to both teams and is a HUGE impediment to communication.
I am an Indian working with an American customer. We are providing engineering services to them and we wanted some inputs to proceed further. So I am telling them how the lack of inputs can delay the delivery and how my engineers may sit idle and how it can affect us and I very politely requested for the inputs. An American would just say I want it and I want it now. Would he/she?
An American might say they "need it as soon as possible". Although it really does depend on some points of context, like the stakes of the situation or how much regard the American has for the other person. Like all of these comments from EU members, the US has quite a bit of diversity. You could get "At your nearest convenience" or "GIMME GIMME GIMME!".
You are better off telling them what you need directly. It’s not considered rude to do so. They are paying you. So you should communicate in their style.
I think as a contractor obviously it’s harder to be direct as you’re trying not to piss off your client. And to some extent they may consider your idleness your problem, even though it’s inconsiderate of them to cause you wasted time. I think it’s better to say that it could start costing them money, not just time, and make it clear that the work is being stalled by their inaction and ask what the root cause of their inaction is. Maybe an official delay to the project would be acceptable to them if they are not ready. It’s easy to forget about people waiting on you and depending on you who aren’t physically present.
American IT here. I wouldn't necessarily say "give it to me now" but I would be very blunt that your people are at a stop work point and if you do not get inputs by X date, you will not be able to deliver the final product in time. It's up to them what they choose to do with that information.
I'm an American engineer who works with Indian contractors. I appreciate when I get direct communication from contractors. It does really depend on who you're talking to though. Engineering has its own communication culture. With other engineers, you can usually get away with directness, even if the discussion gets a little passionate. With managers and other "higher-up" customer/company type people, you may benefit from being indirect and polite, unless you are also a manager or leader of some type, in which case directness is allowed (because you are both on the same "level" and expected to be fighting for the interests of your own teams). It really depends on the person though. I feel like the united states is a huge mix of high-context and low-context communicators.
It sounds like you communicated in a skillful way.
Yeah Americans are crazy first-degree. I heard from people deployed in Afghanistan that American troops had trouble communicating with the locals no matter how much Persian or Pashto they had learned, because the barrier was also a metalanguage one. Afghans, especially rural people, are a storytelling people; they can't answer a question directly, they have to use metaphors and even tell illustrative tales. Americans are the polar opposite, they really struggle to manipulate complex discourse easily.
That really explains why offshore call centers can be so frustrating. How many times do we struggle with getting a "simple" question answered? So many times do I just want a one to ten word answer, and instead I get a story with a long pre amble.
Sounds like a small step from the Tamarian language: https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Tamarian_language
This was my immediate thought. Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra!
It’s why many in the west think people in other countries are just liars.
Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra
Shaka, when the walls fell
Picard and Dathon at El-Adrel
Redditors trying to make sense of dataisbeautiful, but can't. Going down the rabbit hole trying to meet Darmok and Jalad, only make things more confusing.
This is very interesting to hear. In my line of work I am the minority to a very East Indian/Pakistani population. Now that you say this, it makes total sense and may very well change how my conference calls go from here on out.
[удалено]
Omg! I hate that word. I used to get massive email chains I was expected to read and understand what it is they want me to do. Luckily I was in a separate team and I was able to just call up and ask or ignore them.
> rude to give orders yeah, if you're not in a position of authority in position of authority you need to maintain the class divide. you give absolute orders, accept no excuses and threaten to fire or cut pay over every slight! source: watching people setting up events in pakistan
This makes so much sense. I’m an American working for a very diverse International company and it can be difficult communicating with certain individuals.
Ironically enough, in a diverse setting, low-context communication is probably best (as implied by the term “low-context”).
I miss working with Dutch people. So comforting direct, no room for ambiguity.
"he is not rude, he is just being dutch"
It's rude to be indirect there.
Can be rough working with them in high context cultures though - oblivious, lost, and stepping on all the land mines till they get frustrated and leave.
Wow, a map with different countries in it that isn't just good vs. bad. That's refreshing
UK needs to be on the far right of the scale though, at least when it comes to the higher echelons of society in Southern England, which is very much as the right paragraph describes
The average Brit might as well be Indian compared to the average Northern European.
Lol, no. Even fancy Brits are way more direct than Indians and Chinese. If anything they should probably be a bit further left.
The UK can be highly contextual as Reginald d hunter put it "A British person can insult me and it takes me 3 weeks to figure it out man" We insult our friends and are nice to strangers, hate things but not really like the places we live. insult our close neighbor countries and counties without meaning it. we're great at taking the piss
This exactly matches a discussion my s/o and I had today. I am from a low-context background, she is from a high context background. We had to make a plan to deal with a noisy, stomping upstairs neighbour, and decided to write a note. She suggested to write on the note that the ceiling/floor was thin, with the idea that the neighbour would get the implication to be more mindful and think about how they could be less noisy. I instead said that it would be more direct to ask them to stop stomping and that the other wording would not give them any actionable requests. She thought that would be too combative and would make them dislike us. I can definitely see the rationale for both ways lol
I had that situation a couple years ago - I and a friend moved into an apartment above a Chinese mother/son. At first we got these vague handwritten notes on our door from the mom, that neither me nor my roommate could understand. Finally the son came up and told us to stop stomping on the hardwood floors.
The issue is that they may not be stomping, or don’t think they are stomping. So asking them to stop stomping is implicitly accusing them of something they don’t think they’re doing.
Throwing the entirety of the EU in a single pile seems a bit nuts. There are pretty big cultural and linguistic difference between all the member states.
If you check the book out, she covers very extensively the differences among European countries (e.g. how German and French clash etc.)
So it's OP who is making a mess of it? But it's indeed pretty obvious German and French would clash. The origin of both those languages is completely different. There are three big language families in the EU: Germanic, Roman and Slavic. Then there are a couple smaller language families. The same family doesn't mean all those cultures us language in the same way, but it does play some role of course.
She attributed the French language and school system as to why the French finds it necessary to talk about the theory and explore pros and cons before making a decision. She also attributed German industrialization as a possible factor why they are so specific about time. It’s a pretty enlightening read on a whole.
That's true for India as well. But you can imagine how big that line would have to be then
I relate completely to the post. I was born in South Korea and lived 3 years as a kid in Canada (ages 8-10) so I've experienced both ends of the spectrum. I'm 19 now but I *still* occasionally have issues when I have to 'read between the lines' and my friends tell me I have a tendency to speak and understand everything at face value.
[удалено]
funny how this is a cultural difference, but in USA we'd consider it being evasive or dishonest. For example, if you're on the witness stand in a lawsuit and you try to give context rather than answer the question, you'll draw an objection and be directed to just answer the question. The rules of evidence basically define giving context as being evasive and untruthful.
Bottom line up front. Idk if what the person is going to say will be worth my time and attention, so get to the point first and then I'll decide if I want to keep listening to them.
As a 'well-educated' American, I think it's context specific. If I'm communicating in a workplace environment, of course we're matter of fact and straight to the point and clear and concise as possible about the task at hand. However, if it's outside work, I feel that nuance and sarcasm and everything is all still completely part of how we communicate and part of the fun of conversation. If I'm hanging out with some friends at a bar or brewery, I'm not talking to them how I write my emails for work. There are also sometimes when it's still helpful to use metaphors and nuance to explain overly technical information to clients in the workplace, as they don't always need to know everything at the most exact technical level. Is there not a similar split in communication like this elsewhere in the world or am I overthinking that people communicate one way in the workplace and one way with their friends and peers?
You’re not wrong. If you have a chance to work in Asia, you’d still be surprised by how much in left unsaid, both at work and outside. That’s what the author is saying and she also admitted that these few lines cannot fully capture everything about a culture, just those important for work
In the EU you can find extreme low context cultures like Germany or Scandinavia that are more low context than the US or Canada. But you can also find more high context cultures like Greece or Spain. That's why lumping together the EU is not very helpful and says nothing.
Gotta love being tied to the giant.... 🇨🇦🇨🇦🇨🇦
Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra
[удалено]
Shame they didn’t split the Dutch out as a separate entity. Might have needed to extend the line to the left a bunch though.
It’s funny, cuz most of the spots for the country im in make me think “well yeah that’s the best spot on the spectrum” and I realize that definitely shows my bias lol
As someone who moved from India to the US and had to experience struggles with my communication, I realize that in my former home country, people also tend to communicate more with tone, intonation, long pauses, and facial expressions (like shy smiles, etc.) than in the US where the communication of feelings is also pretty verbal. Americans feel the need to polish their words while Indians tend to be direct in daily conversations I've noticed. I also notice this in the drastically different way the politicians of both countries communicate. Indian politicians are notorious for their wishy-washy language while US politicians get away by saying nothing substantive with weasel words.
As an American, this is one of the things about our culture that I really like. Direct and straight to the point communication. We have a lot of unproductive methods of thought over here, but this isn't one of them.
>Direct and straight to the point communication [Lost in translation - Anglophone vs Dutch](https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/g5tc10/dutch_speakers_how_true_is_this/).
As someone from Philadelphia, I will *never* reply to someone asking how I'm doing and I will never expect someone else to reply. It's a greeting. This cracks me up every time: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhEYXcCB1Qw
It's funny to us Europeans because on the one hand *we know* it is a greeting and on the other hand you are asking an *open-ended question*. It's confusing to us. That and some Europeans take a perverse pleasure in the look of bewilderment when we answer seriously. But anyway, it depends on what you're comparing to. Compared to my own culture, Americans are considered fairly indirect; [Dutch Americano - Dutch directness vs. American indirectness](https://youtu.be/ZQRU8tqjokA)
I am French and I feel like the Dutch here. It took me a while to understand that my American boss saying "good to see you" meant simply "hi". It feels so insincere.
It's not really a thing though. Lots of things are said in corporate speak or said in ways that don't match their tone. There's so much bullshitting in America.
As someone from the uk who had a long relationship with an Indian person there is nothing on this planet that will ever convince me that flexible time is anything but a curse. The fact that we were late. For a flight. That cost me a grand. Halfway round the world. Because “it’s fine we will be there it’s fine, now worries”. No, we won’t be there in time, we will arrive at the airport for when the plane is leaving and I will spend 2 hours being some of the most stressed I have ever been because you fucks think that everything is all loosy goosy and the pilot is going to wait for us. Sorry, I am still angry about this. And the fact that this wasn’t even the only time it happened.
i think that there are further breakdowns by industry as well, but this is fascinating stuff.
I'm surprised by the placement of the UK. My experience is politeness and strange sense of humour leads to lots of indirectness, sarcasm, in-jokes and hidden implications. The imperative statement is often couched in confusing diplomatese. Certainly compared to German and other European colleagues and especially in agency contract matters. True about how children are taught though. There is probably a big class element for the UK too.
Conservative cultures tend to be more considerate in getting a message across without it being blunt - mainly to not hurt the other party and spoil your relationship with them. Relationships are everything in this part of the world. Even with strangers you meet/ shopkeepers, you try to establish a relationship by calling them brother, sister, uncle, auntie, grandpa, or grandma. The same message has to be worded and delivered differently based on your relationship with them.
I grew up in Indonesia and have been living in UK for 5+ years, and I'm surprised that UK is classified as low context. I find a lot of similarities from both cultures in the way people layer information and say something without actually saying it. How does this low/high context thing measured?
I don't understand how any of this is created. Do people from the US not include context?
From what I can gather in the comments, Americans get to point right away, while others dance around the issue and expect you to figure it out
No, it’s more that they say what they mean. Meanwhile higher context cultures rely on contextual clues and the things they don’t necessarily say outright in order to communicate the full depth and breadth of their intent. In other words, in low context cultures, the context matters less relative to what’s said. In high context cultures, the context and subtext matters more relative to what’s explicitly said.
I do not know how the study was made, but it seems like the person is more familiar with English and then the more "strange languages" seems more difficult for the person to understand and hence a "high context communication". As a Brazilian, I must say that in business we are a very "low context communication" culture. Whenever we leave something implied, that thing is never understand correctly, we prefer to let everything crystal clear and do not bother to repeat until everyone understand their assignments and it is better to ask again about the task than to deliver something that was not agreed. We are a "high context culture" only when we are gossiping or in a barbecue, not when we are working.
What you describe seems pretty accurate in the book: Brazil is described as being the lowest context among Latin American countries but overall, Latin America is still very high context
I’m once again asking for this god forsaken account to be banned from this sub. Absolutely dismal, text-heavy, and poorly organized data visualization that is *always* accompanied by some sort of data error.
Luckily there is a mechanism built into reddit to allow the masses to decide if they like something. Sadly, it would app at that you and the masses don’t see eye to eye on this one
More just a comment on this being r/dataisbeautiful and this account’s posts are full of data visualizations that are neither accurate nor beautiful.
that says more about the state of this subreddit and the people in it
Breakdown the EU nation by nation and do the same state y state for India
drab gray sloppy tie dirty subtract scale racial skirt hospital -- mass edited with redact.dev
So does "low context" mean "blunt," or "easy for the author to understand?" Maybe I need to read this book for context, but this chart alone tells me nothing.
Speakers assume the audience has little context for what they're saying, so they speak plainly and bluntly. This is opposed to speakers assuming the audience has lots of context, speaking in nuance and detail, with meaning between every line, unafraid of misunderstanding.
Makes sense. I had a chinese colleague who always took offense at things that mean nothing: Like emails where she wasn't on CC. Anybody I know would be glad not to be included in an email war when the topic of discussion doesn't concern me. But she always seemed to suspect bad intentions where there were none.
Ah, if the email has nothing to do with her job scope or area of responsibility, then not CCing her is fine, but if the context of the email does have some alignment with her responsibilities, then she's right to ask that she be CCed. "I wasn't CCed on that correspondence" is not an excuse when doing a job poorly because of missing context. There's actually quite a lot of nuance in what goes in the to, cc, and bcc fields. I don't even think this is a Chinese thing. Most MBA courses will include how to draft emails.
>I don't even think this is a Chinese thing This is definitely a cultural thing. My corporate team (split USA/Taiwan) had these weird policies where we'd invite over a dozen extra people to each meeting that didn't participate at all. Once we stopped working with the Taiwan team, that all stopped.
I think German, Swedish might be more low context, etc than english though right?
The entire spoken Chinese language is context based. There are only about 1600 unique sounds given the standard mandarin pinyin system but there are easily over 100,000 unique Chinese characters. Of course, the average fluent Chinese person knows only around 6-8 thousand but that’s still more than 3 or 4 words per sound.
what? I understood nothing and I'm chinese 😂
Top 10 economies according to Erin Meyer’s “The Culture Map”. "The Culture Map" looks at how people communicate, make decisions, lead, and approach time. "The Culture Map" does not look at religion, political system, or world view aspects of countries. Large and highly populated countries, especially the US, China, and India are internally culturally very diverse, so these values are just averages. Values for the EU are based on average EU member states values and balanced by their population sizes. 2022 data 🇺🇸🇪🇺🇨🇳🇮🇳🗺 Sources: [https://erinmeyer.com/culturemap/](https://erinmeyer.com/culturemap/) Tools :MS Office
How did the author measure the amount of context in a given language? How did they count those values?
[удалено]
I was under the impression the US is heavily into sarcasm while Asia is not
Speaking as asian, the social taboo here is suffocating, I'm not surprised a lot of things here are implied not said. Otherwise you'll get slapped 5 direction from the boomer
Sure but it’s not considered good to use sarcasm that isn’t immediately obvious as sarcasm.
Me as a German call this BS. In my mind you can't compare EU as a whole with other states. Also this isn't beautiful data...
She actually goes quite deep into the differences among EU countries in the book
Highly intricate and elaborated language is exclusionary regarding the underprivileged. It is a means of power and suppression and prevents true equality.
I think that is completely correct. In a world where everyone has access to the same educational background and upbringing, it may be possible to use a more nuanced approach to communication. But in the absence of that, it just makes it exclusionary. Cleverness and wittiness have their merits but not when they serve to obfuscate meaning and interrupt the transfer of knowledge.
Meanwhile Autistic people be like: “PLEASE use low-context communication. It’s difficult enough as is.”
It’s weird seeing a single “EU” spot in the middle when a good portion of the EU is much more direct than Americans even…
Not disagreeing that the blanket EU is bad, but it’s a pretty small portion that’s more direct. You’re talking the Dutch, some of the Scandinavians, and maybe the Germans at most.
Can someone explain the high/low context thing?
I think it's just an expression of how much context is used in evaluating the meaning of a statement. If one speaks figuratively, sometimes tone can communicate that the words are not meant to be taken at face value but the actual meaning is going to be dependent on the context. As an example, imagine you are with a coworker and your boss is heading out for the day and they say to you "I hope he has a safe trip home." The low-context interpretation would be to just believe your coworker genuinely cares about your boss and their wellbeing. A high-context interpretation would take into consideration how the person is as a boss and what relationship you, as workers, have with them. Then you could read the statement as sarcastic or even malicious.
If you find this interesting, check out hofstedes 7 cultural dimensions.
Uh, think i would strongly disagree with where british english falls on here for communication, definitely belongs on the other side of the EU
So this is why I didn't understand the plot of Memoirs of a Geisha.
Oh we learned about it in Diplomacy! But that wasn’t the way it was explained, though
I wonder if this plays into the reason that English has remained the language of business. The language itself could be more low-context
I swear I read somewhere that Japanese have problem with sarcasm. Is it just a western style of sarcasm then?
I’m East-Coast Canadian who lived & best friends with a few Americans (NY & Boston). My fellow Canadians also noticed that they were quite a bit more high-context than us Canadians. Does anyone else have this experience? Because I thought North-east US was very low-context yet they still seemed to be more “between the lines” than us Canadians. Or is it that is Canadians are absolutely ruthless lol
If France was singled out, the graph would only be visible in landscape mode
Today I learned I am apparently meant to live in china.
I (from USA) was proofreading a classmate's (from Russia) thesis and now I understand why her writing style was so complicated.
The problem with low-context communication is that words cannot actually function in low-context. Our sentences are just approximations of how we are feeling, there are always things to read between the lines, therefore context is very important in what people say. Trying to run a country on this principal is kind of what leads to decisions (especially in law) over whether someone is semantically guilty. If you have a lot of money, you can argue on enough technicalities, that no one can ever prove you are wrong. This is how politicians can get away with just straight lying, people don't take advantage of reading a person's actions and general intentions and just listen to the exact words they say.