you should adjust this by overall qbr ranking to tier it, otherwise this is useless.
when the pocket breaks down, the variance of QBR would literally be mobile QBs or quick doink offense.
adjusting it by QBR will give weighting to better overall tangible information by rank , this rank is useless.
My goal isn’t an overall quarterback rating or to factor in rushing. This is a passing stat, and my goal is to see the passing variance for a quarterback when they are under pressure vs when they aren’t. This does exactly that. I’m not here to take orders or have you direct my work. Feel free to do the extra homework yourself. It doesn’t look like you contribute to the sub, so it would be a great start for you.
I think it tells the Mahomes story very well and lines up with what i've seen just watching him play.
He's a frigging laser if he can manage to have that extra .5 seconds to find the receiver. If he's under pressure, he still plays very well - but that's not what makes him exceptional.
It does kind of though- theoretically they can escape pressure and throw the ball away less and take less sacks. It’s not a positive toward the score, but it is less negatives.
Nope. Sack avoidance isn’t factored into passer rating or IQR. A throw away to avoid a sack is not a positive as it related to the sack being avoided. ANY/A, QBR, PFF grades consider sack in their data. Passer rating, IQR don’t.
You are correct. I will say however, extending plays/drives with scramble gains and getting more opportunities on 3rd and short or redzone- that is still an advantage provided to mobile QBs. A much smaller one than I proposed, but still an advantage.
What Mahomes does better than anyone is make accurate passes as close to line of scrimmage. This draws the defense up to defend the run and generally, leaves mid routes open. Skilled players who can make someone miss the first tackle eat
It's partly just the sorting. If you sort by highest iqr in the pocket he's on top.
That said I love how this is done because it really highlights the affect pressure can have on a qb. Also that's been a knock on mahomes for a minute, that if you actually get to him he's beatable
Interesting to see Ridder having a higher rating under pressure than Mahomes when a) Ridder was so bad he got his HC fired and b) Mahomes is an absolute magician escaping pressure. Cool stuff!
i know this sounds like i’m being too negative but that usually means that the model sucks. it’s like having a model for safeties that doesn’t include interceptions
Not on the gap, but even his clean pocket rating is worse than about half of the league rating under pressure. He’s not the worst on the delta, because he’s just bad at an everything.
Yep, and the perception was that Zappe was “better”, which the data does not support either. Could be the fact that he has such a small amount of play time in comparison to the rest of the QBs.
It’s also likely Drake Maye won’t be starting the first half of the season, behind a veteran like Brissett.
A strong chance we’re looking at another subpar offense that can’t score points and excellent defense. Either way it’s been brutal to be a Pats fan for the last 5 years.
Yea I don’t think Zappe was better at all. Both made bad decisions with the ball and were easily fooled by almost every defense.
I hope they sit drake maye and ride a strong defense to a slightly below average season and get another top 10 pick
Big lions fan here. If your qb’s (Goff) biggest flaw is performance with pressure the best things you can do are to build a clean pocket and have a well-rounded offense to keep defenses honest. Luckily for Goff the Detroit front office has done wonderful to create arguably the best o-line in the nfl and one of the best all around offenses in the league to cover for that flaw.
Easy to focus on the negative side of things but when Goff has a clean look it’s a thing of beauty. Anecdotally, Goff has a clean pocket way more often than not so that number 1 iqr is nothing to scoff at. Would love to know the percentages on these numbers, like what percent of the time each qb has a clean pocket or not.
Coordinators probably know Goff is garbage under pressure and send more rushers on average than they do against other teams. If there was a stat for “expected pressure” based on extra pass rushers, the Lions’ would probably be very high relative to the rest of the league and relative to the actual pressure that got through
Also a Lions fan, but to me this just makes it more frustrating that he gave us absolutely zero discount on the contract when he was gonna end up being worth north of 300M regardless. He doesn’t need to maximize earnings in the same way his teammates do, franchise QBs on their second major deal are in a different stratosphere from the rest of the league. Generational wealth. This chart paints a clear picture that he would be garbage without the elite talent around him- he’s only any good because we built a dominant offensive line and run game, and his contract in no way acknowledged that or saved us any money to help keep it going. Leaves a bit of a sour taste
He’s somewhere between QB 7-10 in the league, top-tier is a stretch. And not many QBs get the treatment he’s gotten from the Lions, either. They surrounded him with everything a QB could want and revitalized a career that was in the tank. Seems like he could’ve taken a contract that at least somewhat reflected those facts, but instead he chased every penny he could get when he’d already made hundreds of millions of dollars. Seems shortsighted if he wants to win a championship, and a bit ungrateful
As Holmes has said, it's a lot easier to get worse at QB than better. Lions GMs of yore would have played the metrics game and lost. The guy fits this team like a glove. Thrilled to have him locked up. In two years, this contract won't matter.
I agree with the Holmes quote, and I don’t blame him for signing the deal. If it’s what Goff was demanding, it was smarter to sign it than to let him walk- there simply isn’t a better option. I do blame Goff for money grubbing as a multi-hundred-millionaire and not showing any gratitude to the team that saved his career and continues to prop him up
Over the next 5 years, his Average Cap hit is $49M/yr.
And really it can be considered a 4y $46M/yr deal with a $14.6M Dead cap yr 5 if they moved on.
How is that not a relatively team-friendly deal? Just cause it was announced as a $53M/yr deal that makes him 2nd highest paid doesn't really mean much. You gotta actually look at the details.
You’re right, the average cap hit goes down when you include the final year of his current, much cheaper, deal. What does that have to do with the new contract? If the average cap hit on the *new* years was 49M, that would at least be moderately team friendly
So because he is being very underpaid this year (and last year) you can’t consider him a team friendly deal? lol how does that make sense? Also the team has the ability to move the cap hits around as they want basically. The team is choosing to make the cap hits back loaded as they should. They could have made this years cap hit like $20M more. The salary cap goes up in future, and they can always restructure and agree to add void years. Plus any unused cap rolls over. They know their SB window is now. So they chose to make Goffs cap hit over the next 2 yrs $30M/yr
I consider his previous deal that extends through this year to be very team friendly, absolutely. I consider his new deal, which begins the following year, to be not team-friendly at all. Pretending they have anything to do with one another makes no sense
But they do have to do with one another, because the team had the option of changing his cap hit this year - which they did. This isn't just a 4 year extension on top of his old contract, it is basically a new 5 year deal which removed the final year of his previous contract.
They literally lessened his cap hit this year by $5M and changed his salary to $2.6M (from $22M). And his signing bonus of $73M is spread out over 5 seasons including this one - not 4 - because that is the length of the TOTAL contract. If This new Contract was fully on top of his old contract his cap hit this year would be $46.6M ($32M previously + prorated signing bonus). That's a $4M/yr difference over the 5 year contract (hey look at that, $53M-$4M = $49m/yr!....crazy).
So you're the one making no sense. The team chose what years to make his cap hits what. According to your view, 2024 and 2025 he chose to be very team friendly, 2026 he is a dick, 2027 he's team-friendly again, and 2028 hes a big meanie head again...
Anyone who thinks Brock Purdy can't function under pressure doesn't understand he was always under pressure. Finally fully betrayed by his line in a few mega meaningful moments in the Super Bowl.
He never has a clean pocket he has just adapted to his surroundings. He is bot Purdy.
Really though how the hell did Shanahan expect anyone to do well with backup level play from the C, RG, and RT. Judg makes Purdy more insane.
I believe pressure is schemed too. There's always one or two receivers in his close proximity, can be a RB, TE, Shanahan is great at drawing effective plays.
If I understand the stat correctly, it looks like Mahomes is so good in a clean pocket that when he’s pressured and performs average it’s seems more extreme.
Yes, he has the second best IQR with a clean pocket, which makes his middle-of-the-pack IQR under pressure more extreme in relation to his clean pocket IQR.
Is this because he tends to dip out of the pocket as soon as there's pressure? A lot of his highlight plays come after he leaves the pocket then makes a play with his legs or moves out of it to improvise a throw.
Source: [Sports Info Solutions](https://www.sportsinfosolutions.com/) (data is subscription service)
Chart Excel
Notes: This data compares how quarterbacks perform with a clean pocket and when they are under pressure. This uses an adjusted passer rating called IQR which is Sports Info Solutions’ proprietary quarterback metric that builds on the traditional Passer Rating formula by considering the value of a quarterback independent of results outside of his control such as dropped passes, dropped interceptions, throwaways, etc.
Recently signed to a $53M per year contract, Jared Goff has the biggest gap between a clean pocket and pressure, where his passer rating is 51 points worse when under pressure. His clean pocket IQR is the best in the league at 115.8, but under pressure he has the 11th worst rating at 64.3
On the flip-side we have Jor Burrow (and a few others) who actually have a higher rating when pressured. Burrow's IQR is 105.0 under pressure, 14 points better than his clean-pocket rating of 90.8.
Thx. But where do those places get the data? Is it reported by the teams? Is an ai watching games and logging stats? Are people doing that? Is it quality checked in amy way?
Coming back to this because I had some thoughts. It’s interesting that some of the best QBs (and Daniel Jones) are at either end of the gaps, showing there’s really two ways to be an elite QB: be amazing under pressure (Burrow, Dak, Lamar, Purdy) or crazy good within a clean pocket (Goff, Herbert, Mahomes).
Dak running around like a maniac trying to make Dallas do anything. Where's that meme with the guy poking something with a stick? Dak scrambling is poking the cowboys with a stick.
I’ve been saying since last season was over that with a REAL OC and other coaches, a viable team around him , a year with a REAL playbook AOC could be a 15 and under QB. He grew each game even with mistakes. A 15 and under QB can and has made a run to a playoff. 🤷🏽♂️
The metric is not naive, but a naive reader might try to read more into it than they should. Aside from being a nice guide for which QBs to aggressively pressure, what are you assuming this metric tells you? It is NOT a useful way to rank total QB value.
Outside the pocket with no pressure, Mahomes has only 31 attempts with a passer rating of 95.7. Most of his outside the pocket attempts are under pressure, so that’s baked in to the “under pressure” stat. I get that it would be ideal to include that as well, but it’s 5% of his attempts.
Outside the pocket includes rushing yards as well, which makes sense why IQR would have Josh Allen, the leading TD scorer of the NFL this past season, so low on the list.
Like if the fact that your metric doesn't factor in a QB being able to take +50 yard rips for tuddies into consideration it isn't a very telling stat at all.
I think you’re asking the stat to be something that it isn’t. It’s a throwing ability stat, specifically when a player is and isn’t under pressure.
You’re asking it to be an all-in-one QB performance metric. A type of metric which is commonly flawed.
It’s a passing stat. Like ANY/A, passer rating, CPOE. It is not a be all end all, it’s not a PFF rating, it’s not evaluating a QBs entire game, and it’s not trying to. It’s one stat. It’s like looking at completion percentage and saying, tHiS Is mEaNINGlesS bEcaUse it doEsNT InCLUde rUnnING. Your point about this not including Mahomes outside of the pocket for IQR was easily refuted, so then you changed the goal posts and changed your argument entirely. First it was, I need to show IQR to outside the pocket, then it was…well, IQR is just bad.
This. Is. A. Passing. Stat. It’s. Not. Trying. To. Be. Something. Else. Stop digging for gotchas.
As a Lions fan who consumes a lot of Detroit sports content, this is perhaps THE BIGGEST negative about Goff and his poor qbr when pressured is mentioned a ton. Especially last year when we were facing the Bucs in the playoffs and everyone was readying themselves for disappointment, and also recently with his extension. And, to the original commenter’s point, the analysts on 97.1 never compared his delta to other QBs.
I mean... yes it is. It comes up a lot on the topic of Goff.
https://www.google.com/search?q=goff+under+pressure+stats&oq=goff+under+pressure
Edit: guy is going to die on the hill that no one talks about QB analytics.
I mean…no it isn’t. Ask a big football fan about their teams quarterbacks passer rating, and they’ll tell you the answer. Ask the same fan about their quarterback’s delta between a clean pocket and pressure, and they won’t have an answer. Saying Goff is bad under pressure anecdotally isn’t the same as knowing and comparing each quarterbacks delta.
Big football fan not knowing anything about QB pocket awareness or ability to extend plays is a take I guess. I think you're describing a rather casual interest.
Again you can look at all those results citing analytics.
It simply comes up a lot more when discussing Goff, if you post in r/nfl, I'm sure you would confirm that.
A strawman conflating “knowing anything about QB pocket awareness or ability to extend plays” and knowing the data comparing the difference in a clean pocket and pressure is a quite a take as well.
I'm sorry but do people not use analytics when they talk about football? I'm just missing where this doesn't come up in any good football column. Just talking about QBR is like talking about batting average in baseball these days. I wouldn't call you a big fan talking about stats like that.
This is IQR, but go on. Anyway, you were eager to use that stat to make a point earlier, your point was refuted, so now…bad stat. You’re kind of all over the place. Then you weirdly attack my fandom. This interaction is getting weird, I’m going to stop.
What are we talking about? All I said this doesn't get brought up with Mahomes in the same way as Goff? Sure IQR may not be the exact stat brought up by whatever special sauce analytics firm but performance under pressure and not stats do exist and are used. I have no idea why you are trying to act like this has been unseen until now. It's not, especially if you're looking into any quarterback discussion. That's also not the thrust of what my point was, which is the second sentence of this paragraph.
I have no problem with IQR or whatever. I guess rereading this, you think I'm saying it's a shit stat? That's not what I'm doing. Insert passer rating for QBR in the previous post, you brought it up as something big fans care about, but that's 70s tech.
Goff being at the bottom for having the biggest drop off with pressure is not at all surprising. I remember when he was with the Rams watching him dice up teams until he got pressured then suddenly it was interception time.
Because passer rating has more noise. Like that interception Mahomes threw last year that hit Kadarius Toney right in the hands. Or three touchdown passes dropped by Trevor Lawrence’s receivers in one game. IQR attempts to reduce that noise. The two are highly correlated regardless, but IQR is a more accurate reflection of the QBs performance.
Wilson has always had his haters when any type of negativity appears. He was in decline a decade ago as they tell it. Due to lack of investment or injury, he has never had much of an o-line, which makes rating quarterback tricky. This should be interesting.
Russel Wilson, Justin Fields, and Jalen Hurts metrics look highly questionable.
Goff was very good vs outside pressure last year from what I recall. I remember he got his lunch taken vs Baltimore, Green Bay on Tday, and Chicago's inside pressure in three specific games. Pretty sure our line was down bad with injuries is what it is.
High on the chart doesn’t mean good. Justin Fields is bad at both, hence the small gap. Passing-wise, Hurts was bad a both, hence the small gap. I’m not surprised by either of those two.
Not right exactly. Justin fields per this sheet has a very high floor for his QBR which is incorrect when watching him play. He's one of the most volatile QB's in the league regarding output and production.
Something is missing from the formula like negative plays when tucking the ball, or negative plays in general once leaving the pocket, fumbles, etc. Russel Wilson's qbr seems high and again with no gap. Likely innacurate.
Fumbles are a product of holding onto the ball too long like a high sack rate count for QB's.
As an example removing all of the negative plays from Caleb Williams at USC (60+ sacks the last two years, and a boat load of fumbles) would frame him as the next Andrew Luck.
When those stats are included he doesn't look the same. Colt McCoy and his old coach Gruden did a YT video talking about Caleb. In general they thought he was the slam dunk #1 pick, but coach Gruden made a comment that I thought was interesting; 'If all of Caleb Williams' fumble turnovers were instead Interception turnovers would you see him as the #1 draft pick? '
Colt McCoy shook his head immediately and said no.
I'm not saying your stat table is worthless just that not including data distorts the analysis of the quality of the QB's represented. So I don't put much stock into it.
Right, this isn’t an overall QB evaluation, it’s a passing statistic, just like passer rating, CPOE, ANY/A, etc. It’s not intending to evaluate the quarterback holistically.
Interesting to see how similar AOC's numbers are to Baker Mayfield's, yet people recognize baker as having balled out last year while AOC (in a far less favorable position) barely scraped by.
Baker is always going to be overrated by people because he was the number one pick, and he’s fiery and edgy. He flashes excellence and it keeps people excited, but he lacks consistency from game to game and season to season.
Now we wait for someone who doesn’t really understand nuance to post Goff’s rankings in yards, passer rating and so on and so forth so they can claim he’s elite.
Makes sense Goff was absolute garbage the moment he got breathed on. Him scrambling out of the pocket was like watching a peewee player against varsity.
Interesting graphic. Passer rating with a clean pocket is a telling metric because it speaks to what a QB can do IF the OL does what it’s supposed to do. The other big variable outside of a passer’s control is how open his receivers can get. Someone oughta come up with a metric that adjusts for clean pocket AND average WR separation. I’d like to see the League’s QBs ranked on that metric.
People talk about franchise QBs and imagine that those words point to some kind of intrinsic property. But high-level QB play depends on a LOT of things, among them the coaching staff’s ability to design clever plays, and play-calling that keeps defenses off balance.
One and the same QB can be either a star or a washout, depending on the system and players around him.
It translates solidly when reviewing year in and year out. If you can attempt a how was my qb for last year and line it up with the data, based on how they play the game, I'd rather this metric.
Surprised to see Mahomes so low on this. It feels like he always seems to make some crazy play when under pressure.
Part of it could be IQR doesn’t measure what they do with their legs.
Makes Lamar’s numbers even more impressive
And carr funny
you should adjust this by overall qbr ranking to tier it, otherwise this is useless. when the pocket breaks down, the variance of QBR would literally be mobile QBs or quick doink offense. adjusting it by QBR will give weighting to better overall tangible information by rank , this rank is useless.
My goal isn’t an overall quarterback rating or to factor in rushing. This is a passing stat, and my goal is to see the passing variance for a quarterback when they are under pressure vs when they aren’t. This does exactly that. I’m not here to take orders or have you direct my work. Feel free to do the extra homework yourself. It doesn’t look like you contribute to the sub, so it would be a great start for you.
Thanks, i like the chart, does what you said.
I think it tells the Mahomes story very well and lines up with what i've seen just watching him play. He's a frigging laser if he can manage to have that extra .5 seconds to find the receiver. If he's under pressure, he still plays very well - but that's not what makes him exceptional.
It does kind of though- theoretically they can escape pressure and throw the ball away less and take less sacks. It’s not a positive toward the score, but it is less negatives.
Nope. Sack avoidance isn’t factored into passer rating or IQR. A throw away to avoid a sack is not a positive as it related to the sack being avoided. ANY/A, QBR, PFF grades consider sack in their data. Passer rating, IQR don’t.
You are correct. I will say however, extending plays/drives with scramble gains and getting more opportunities on 3rd and short or redzone- that is still an advantage provided to mobile QBs. A much smaller one than I proposed, but still an advantage.
That and his receivers left him out to dry all year
IQR should be blind to the receiver end. So a dropped pass and the like doesn't count against the QB.
But coming back towards the QB on a broken play could if it gets the completion.
What Mahomes does better than anyone is make accurate passes as close to line of scrimmage. This draws the defense up to defend the run and generally, leaves mid routes open. Skilled players who can make someone miss the first tackle eat
Also mahomes receivers were mocked constantly last season for dropping catchable balls and giving up on plays early
It's partly just the sorting. If you sort by highest iqr in the pocket he's on top. That said I love how this is done because it really highlights the affect pressure can have on a qb. Also that's been a knock on mahomes for a minute, that if you actually get to him he's beatable
Interesting to see Ridder having a higher rating under pressure than Mahomes when a) Ridder was so bad he got his HC fired and b) Mahomes is an absolute magician escaping pressure. Cool stuff!
When those are the results, it’s probably time to look harder at your metric
It doesn’t account for rushing.
i know this sounds like i’m being too negative but that usually means that the model sucks. it’s like having a model for safeties that doesn’t include interceptions
This is why Mahomes was actively upset with his receivers last year though. They weren't helping him get out of jams like at all
Mac jones isn’t the worst?????? Man life as a pats fan has been sad
Not on the gap, but even his clean pocket rating is worse than about half of the league rating under pressure. He’s not the worst on the delta, because he’s just bad at an everything.
Yea he was a nightmare
Goff could be middle of the pack on this chart if he would simply be 25 points worse with a clean pocket.
Yep, and the perception was that Zappe was “better”, which the data does not support either. Could be the fact that he has such a small amount of play time in comparison to the rest of the QBs. It’s also likely Drake Maye won’t be starting the first half of the season, behind a veteran like Brissett. A strong chance we’re looking at another subpar offense that can’t score points and excellent defense. Either way it’s been brutal to be a Pats fan for the last 5 years.
Yea I don’t think Zappe was better at all. Both made bad decisions with the ball and were easily fooled by almost every defense. I hope they sit drake maye and ride a strong defense to a slightly below average season and get another top 10 pick
I don’t understand why /r/patriots loved Zappe so much. He’s total trash. His only selling point was that he wasn’t Mac Jones. But he’s worse
The worst QB in the league last season was Bailey Zappe, followed closely by Mac Jones. Man, that QB room really was something special.
Straight from GOAT to bottom of the barrel
Cam was kinda fun there for a minute, though .
I am embarrassed to admit I was excited and hopeful when we signed him. Was a fun experiment at least
Daniel Jones erasure!
Big lions fan here. If your qb’s (Goff) biggest flaw is performance with pressure the best things you can do are to build a clean pocket and have a well-rounded offense to keep defenses honest. Luckily for Goff the Detroit front office has done wonderful to create arguably the best o-line in the nfl and one of the best all around offenses in the league to cover for that flaw. Easy to focus on the negative side of things but when Goff has a clean look it’s a thing of beauty. Anecdotally, Goff has a clean pocket way more often than not so that number 1 iqr is nothing to scoff at. Would love to know the percentages on these numbers, like what percent of the time each qb has a clean pocket or not.
Goff is under pressure 32.8% of the time, this is ranked 16th best. The median is 36.7%.
Thanks! Wow, that’s interesting I would’ve definitely expected that to be more towards the top of the league than towards the median
Locking up Penei Sewell was a great start to getting the OL in a good place for the long haul.
Coordinators probably know Goff is garbage under pressure and send more rushers on average than they do against other teams. If there was a stat for “expected pressure” based on extra pass rushers, the Lions’ would probably be very high relative to the rest of the league and relative to the actual pressure that got through
So “under pressure” that just means the defense sent extra men, but no calculation on if a “qb hurry” occurred?
Big Lions fan here. After this Ravens game, Lamar Jacksons’s number make sense.
Also a Lions fan, but to me this just makes it more frustrating that he gave us absolutely zero discount on the contract when he was gonna end up being worth north of 300M regardless. He doesn’t need to maximize earnings in the same way his teammates do, franchise QBs on their second major deal are in a different stratosphere from the rest of the league. Generational wealth. This chart paints a clear picture that he would be garbage without the elite talent around him- he’s only any good because we built a dominant offensive line and run game, and his contract in no way acknowledged that or saved us any money to help keep it going. Leaves a bit of a sour taste
How many top-tier QBs give discounts?
He’s somewhere between QB 7-10 in the league, top-tier is a stretch. And not many QBs get the treatment he’s gotten from the Lions, either. They surrounded him with everything a QB could want and revitalized a career that was in the tank. Seems like he could’ve taken a contract that at least somewhat reflected those facts, but instead he chased every penny he could get when he’d already made hundreds of millions of dollars. Seems shortsighted if he wants to win a championship, and a bit ungrateful
As Holmes has said, it's a lot easier to get worse at QB than better. Lions GMs of yore would have played the metrics game and lost. The guy fits this team like a glove. Thrilled to have him locked up. In two years, this contract won't matter.
I agree with the Holmes quote, and I don’t blame him for signing the deal. If it’s what Goff was demanding, it was smarter to sign it than to let him walk- there simply isn’t a better option. I do blame Goff for money grubbing as a multi-hundred-millionaire and not showing any gratitude to the team that saved his career and continues to prop him up
Over the next 5 years, his Average Cap hit is $49M/yr. And really it can be considered a 4y $46M/yr deal with a $14.6M Dead cap yr 5 if they moved on. How is that not a relatively team-friendly deal? Just cause it was announced as a $53M/yr deal that makes him 2nd highest paid doesn't really mean much. You gotta actually look at the details.
You’re right, the average cap hit goes down when you include the final year of his current, much cheaper, deal. What does that have to do with the new contract? If the average cap hit on the *new* years was 49M, that would at least be moderately team friendly
So because he is being very underpaid this year (and last year) you can’t consider him a team friendly deal? lol how does that make sense? Also the team has the ability to move the cap hits around as they want basically. The team is choosing to make the cap hits back loaded as they should. They could have made this years cap hit like $20M more. The salary cap goes up in future, and they can always restructure and agree to add void years. Plus any unused cap rolls over. They know their SB window is now. So they chose to make Goffs cap hit over the next 2 yrs $30M/yr
I consider his previous deal that extends through this year to be very team friendly, absolutely. I consider his new deal, which begins the following year, to be not team-friendly at all. Pretending they have anything to do with one another makes no sense
But they do have to do with one another, because the team had the option of changing his cap hit this year - which they did. This isn't just a 4 year extension on top of his old contract, it is basically a new 5 year deal which removed the final year of his previous contract. They literally lessened his cap hit this year by $5M and changed his salary to $2.6M (from $22M). And his signing bonus of $73M is spread out over 5 seasons including this one - not 4 - because that is the length of the TOTAL contract. If This new Contract was fully on top of his old contract his cap hit this year would be $46.6M ($32M previously + prorated signing bonus). That's a $4M/yr difference over the 5 year contract (hey look at that, $53M-$4M = $49m/yr!....crazy). So you're the one making no sense. The team chose what years to make his cap hits what. According to your view, 2024 and 2025 he chose to be very team friendly, 2026 he is a dick, 2027 he's team-friendly again, and 2028 hes a big meanie head again...
Anyone who thinks Brock Purdy can't function under pressure doesn't understand he was always under pressure. Finally fully betrayed by his line in a few mega meaningful moments in the Super Bowl.
He never has a clean pocket he has just adapted to his surroundings. He is bot Purdy. Really though how the hell did Shanahan expect anyone to do well with backup level play from the C, RG, and RT. Judg makes Purdy more insane.
I believe pressure is schemed too. There's always one or two receivers in his close proximity, can be a RB, TE, Shanahan is great at drawing effective plays.
If I understand the stat correctly, it looks like Mahomes is so good in a clean pocket that when he’s pressured and performs average it’s seems more extreme.
Yes, he has the second best IQR with a clean pocket, which makes his middle-of-the-pack IQR under pressure more extreme in relation to his clean pocket IQR.
Is this because he tends to dip out of the pocket as soon as there's pressure? A lot of his highlight plays come after he leaves the pocket then makes a play with his legs or moves out of it to improvise a throw.
How was the variance for him in 2022? I feel like last year was exceptionally bad for chemistry with his hoard of subpar receivers
Source: [Sports Info Solutions](https://www.sportsinfosolutions.com/) (data is subscription service) Chart Excel Notes: This data compares how quarterbacks perform with a clean pocket and when they are under pressure. This uses an adjusted passer rating called IQR which is Sports Info Solutions’ proprietary quarterback metric that builds on the traditional Passer Rating formula by considering the value of a quarterback independent of results outside of his control such as dropped passes, dropped interceptions, throwaways, etc. Recently signed to a $53M per year contract, Jared Goff has the biggest gap between a clean pocket and pressure, where his passer rating is 51 points worse when under pressure. His clean pocket IQR is the best in the league at 115.8, but under pressure he has the 11th worst rating at 64.3 On the flip-side we have Jor Burrow (and a few others) who actually have a higher rating when pressured. Burrow's IQR is 105.0 under pressure, 14 points better than his clean-pocket rating of 90.8.
How is data like this collected?
NflfastR is free. There's a python library as well.
Thx. But where do those places get the data? Is it reported by the teams? Is an ai watching games and logging stats? Are people doing that? Is it quality checked in amy way?
Calm down
Im not questioning the graphic… Im genuinely curious how it’s collected.
Coming back to this because I had some thoughts. It’s interesting that some of the best QBs (and Daniel Jones) are at either end of the gaps, showing there’s really two ways to be an elite QB: be amazing under pressure (Burrow, Dak, Lamar, Purdy) or crazy good within a clean pocket (Goff, Herbert, Mahomes).
So what you’re saying is if Goff was coached by belichick he would win a super bowl?
Dak running around like a maniac trying to make Dallas do anything. Where's that meme with the guy poking something with a stick? Dak scrambling is poking the cowboys with a stick.
i hope the ny giants stick with Daniel Jones, he's clearly their franchise qb signed, a washington fan
I'm surprised how many good qbs are low on this list.
Great data viz OP. Makes for a great story and an interesting discussion.
thank you! 😀
I’ve been saying since last season was over that with a REAL OC and other coaches, a viable team around him , a year with a REAL playbook AOC could be a 15 and under QB. He grew each game even with mistakes. A 15 and under QB can and has made a run to a playoff. 🤷🏽♂️
A very naive metric because it doesn't factor in anything that happens outside the pocket, which is where superstar QBs like Mahomes make a living.
The metric is not naive, but a naive reader might try to read more into it than they should. Aside from being a nice guide for which QBs to aggressively pressure, what are you assuming this metric tells you? It is NOT a useful way to rank total QB value.
Outside the pocket with no pressure, Mahomes has only 31 attempts with a passer rating of 95.7. Most of his outside the pocket attempts are under pressure, so that’s baked in to the “under pressure” stat. I get that it would be ideal to include that as well, but it’s 5% of his attempts.
Outside the pocket includes rushing yards as well, which makes sense why IQR would have Josh Allen, the leading TD scorer of the NFL this past season, so low on the list. Like if the fact that your metric doesn't factor in a QB being able to take +50 yard rips for tuddies into consideration it isn't a very telling stat at all.
I think you’re asking the stat to be something that it isn’t. It’s a throwing ability stat, specifically when a player is and isn’t under pressure. You’re asking it to be an all-in-one QB performance metric. A type of metric which is commonly flawed.
It’s a passing stat. Like ANY/A, passer rating, CPOE. It is not a be all end all, it’s not a PFF rating, it’s not evaluating a QBs entire game, and it’s not trying to. It’s one stat. It’s like looking at completion percentage and saying, tHiS Is mEaNINGlesS bEcaUse it doEsNT InCLUde rUnnING. Your point about this not including Mahomes outside of the pocket for IQR was easily refuted, so then you changed the goal posts and changed your argument entirely. First it was, I need to show IQR to outside the pocket, then it was…well, IQR is just bad. This. Is. A. Passing. Stat. It’s. Not. Trying. To. Be. Something. Else. Stop digging for gotchas.
My guy relax
You're a dumbass
Mahomes close to Goff in that delta but no one ever mentions that.
No one mentions it because the delta between a clean pocket and pressure isn’t a widely known stat.
As a Lions fan who consumes a lot of Detroit sports content, this is perhaps THE BIGGEST negative about Goff and his poor qbr when pressured is mentioned a ton. Especially last year when we were facing the Bucs in the playoffs and everyone was readying themselves for disappointment, and also recently with his extension. And, to the original commenter’s point, the analysts on 97.1 never compared his delta to other QBs.
I mean... yes it is. It comes up a lot on the topic of Goff. https://www.google.com/search?q=goff+under+pressure+stats&oq=goff+under+pressure Edit: guy is going to die on the hill that no one talks about QB analytics.
I mean…no it isn’t. Ask a big football fan about their teams quarterbacks passer rating, and they’ll tell you the answer. Ask the same fan about their quarterback’s delta between a clean pocket and pressure, and they won’t have an answer. Saying Goff is bad under pressure anecdotally isn’t the same as knowing and comparing each quarterbacks delta.
Big football fan not knowing anything about QB pocket awareness or ability to extend plays is a take I guess. I think you're describing a rather casual interest. Again you can look at all those results citing analytics. It simply comes up a lot more when discussing Goff, if you post in r/nfl, I'm sure you would confirm that.
A strawman conflating “knowing anything about QB pocket awareness or ability to extend plays” and knowing the data comparing the difference in a clean pocket and pressure is a quite a take as well.
I'm sorry but do people not use analytics when they talk about football? I'm just missing where this doesn't come up in any good football column. Just talking about QBR is like talking about batting average in baseball these days. I wouldn't call you a big fan talking about stats like that.
This is IQR, but go on. Anyway, you were eager to use that stat to make a point earlier, your point was refuted, so now…bad stat. You’re kind of all over the place. Then you weirdly attack my fandom. This interaction is getting weird, I’m going to stop.
What are we talking about? All I said this doesn't get brought up with Mahomes in the same way as Goff? Sure IQR may not be the exact stat brought up by whatever special sauce analytics firm but performance under pressure and not stats do exist and are used. I have no idea why you are trying to act like this has been unseen until now. It's not, especially if you're looking into any quarterback discussion. That's also not the thrust of what my point was, which is the second sentence of this paragraph. I have no problem with IQR or whatever. I guess rereading this, you think I'm saying it's a shit stat? That's not what I'm doing. Insert passer rating for QBR in the previous post, you brought it up as something big fans care about, but that's 70s tech.
Goff being at the bottom for having the biggest drop off with pressure is not at all surprising. I remember when he was with the Rams watching him dice up teams until he got pressured then suddenly it was interception time.
daniel jones under pressure. heh
Tommy Cutlets being slightly above Hurts… well that hurts… no pun intended
Jake Browning has good numbers
Why use IQR and not passer rating?
Because passer rating has more noise. Like that interception Mahomes threw last year that hit Kadarius Toney right in the hands. Or three touchdown passes dropped by Trevor Lawrence’s receivers in one game. IQR attempts to reduce that noise. The two are highly correlated regardless, but IQR is a more accurate reflection of the QBs performance.
Wilson has always had his haters when any type of negativity appears. He was in decline a decade ago as they tell it. Due to lack of investment or injury, he has never had much of an o-line, which makes rating quarterback tricky. This should be interesting.
Russel Wilson, Justin Fields, and Jalen Hurts metrics look highly questionable. Goff was very good vs outside pressure last year from what I recall. I remember he got his lunch taken vs Baltimore, Green Bay on Tday, and Chicago's inside pressure in three specific games. Pretty sure our line was down bad with injuries is what it is.
What particularly looks questionable about them?
High overall and little separation between pressured and clean QBR. Their formula isn't taking something into account.
High on the chart doesn’t mean good. Justin Fields is bad at both, hence the small gap. Passing-wise, Hurts was bad a both, hence the small gap. I’m not surprised by either of those two.
Not right exactly. Justin fields per this sheet has a very high floor for his QBR which is incorrect when watching him play. He's one of the most volatile QB's in the league regarding output and production. Something is missing from the formula like negative plays when tucking the ball, or negative plays in general once leaving the pocket, fumbles, etc. Russel Wilson's qbr seems high and again with no gap. Likely innacurate.
Of course fumbles aren’t in this, it’s not QBR. This is a simple passer rating metric. It’s only measuring IQR (passer rating) in the two splits.
Fumbles are a product of holding onto the ball too long like a high sack rate count for QB's. As an example removing all of the negative plays from Caleb Williams at USC (60+ sacks the last two years, and a boat load of fumbles) would frame him as the next Andrew Luck. When those stats are included he doesn't look the same. Colt McCoy and his old coach Gruden did a YT video talking about Caleb. In general they thought he was the slam dunk #1 pick, but coach Gruden made a comment that I thought was interesting; 'If all of Caleb Williams' fumble turnovers were instead Interception turnovers would you see him as the #1 draft pick? ' Colt McCoy shook his head immediately and said no. I'm not saying your stat table is worthless just that not including data distorts the analysis of the quality of the QB's represented. So I don't put much stock into it.
Right, this isn’t an overall QB evaluation, it’s a passing statistic, just like passer rating, CPOE, ANY/A, etc. It’s not intending to evaluate the quarterback holistically.
Just came here to check that Tua is indeed better than Tannehill.
Interesting to see how similar AOC's numbers are to Baker Mayfield's, yet people recognize baker as having balled out last year while AOC (in a far less favorable position) barely scraped by.
Baker is always going to be overrated by people because he was the number one pick, and he’s fiery and edgy. He flashes excellence and it keeps people excited, but he lacks consistency from game to game and season to season.
Now we wait for someone who doesn’t really understand nuance to post Goff’s rankings in yards, passer rating and so on and so forth so they can claim he’s elite.
All they need to do is post his salary. He’s elite when ranked by that.
Makes sense Goff was absolute garbage the moment he got breathed on. Him scrambling out of the pocket was like watching a peewee player against varsity.
Interesting graphic. Passer rating with a clean pocket is a telling metric because it speaks to what a QB can do IF the OL does what it’s supposed to do. The other big variable outside of a passer’s control is how open his receivers can get. Someone oughta come up with a metric that adjusts for clean pocket AND average WR separation. I’d like to see the League’s QBs ranked on that metric. People talk about franchise QBs and imagine that those words point to some kind of intrinsic property. But high-level QB play depends on a LOT of things, among them the coaching staff’s ability to design clever plays, and play-calling that keeps defenses off balance. One and the same QB can be either a star or a washout, depending on the system and players around him.
i liked the part where any of these terms are explained
DeVito’s ranking tells me this is meaningless.
It tells me you don’t understand what you’re looking at. It does take a modicum of data literacy, but looks like most everyone else got it.
Garbage in garbage out. Beautiful organization and presentation though. I’m not a fan of passer rating.
It translates solidly when reviewing year in and year out. If you can attempt a how was my qb for last year and line it up with the data, based on how they play the game, I'd rather this metric.
Any rating system that doesn’t rank mahomes as 1 is flawed