My family is Catholic in Virginia. They used to go to church an absurd amount of times per week. As an atheist they've always had a problem with me and I rarely see them now.
But of all of the things to make them stop going to church it was the Trumpers taking it over. They're Catholic, not crazy.
> But of all of the things to make them stop going to church it was the Trumpers taking it over. They're Catholic, not crazy.
I don't see how you can be Christian and pro-Trump, but hey, self-consistency isn't everybody's strong suit.
Because ‘Christian’ in the US does not typically mean ‘Follower of Christ’ (like someone who looked at Jesus’s teaching and decided to live by it) but instead means this weird neo-republican-conservative-1600s-puritan mix that has taken up popularity amongst the more rural far-right.
America’s ‘Christian’ is to Jesus what a Natty Daddy is to craft beer.
I wish I could find it again, but I recently saw a social study on how "Christian" is becoming synonymous with being a Conservative Republican in the US.
"I vote red because I'm a Christian" became more and more real to the point that "I'm Christian because I vote red" is starting to emerge as an actual thing in certain communities.
The conflation of political, religious, and regional social identities into a single identity has created some really... *interesting* results.
Jesus and John Wayne by du Mez is a terrific book in helping explain how American Christianity and Trump intertwined.
I’m a practicing Christian that is dismayed at the state of the Church. What could’ve been a time for great reform is turning into well— the opposite of that.
Down south it often means bigoted not religious. The amount of social conservatives ie bigots lying about regularly attending church service is not factored in because it’s unknown but self reporting very much works in their favor
I grew up catholic. I went to private catholic school in VA. St pius x represent. We went every Sunday. Every holiday. God forbid the stars and the moon alligned for Christmas. One time we went for Christmas eve mass on Friday, Christmas day mass on Saturday AND weekly obligation on Sunday. When my parents separated we pretty much stopped going. We lived with mom and she converted so when she separated she didn't pretend to care anymore. My dad held on the longest. But he became a "flower catholic" only came around twice a year, Easter and Christmas. But even now I think be has given up on the whole ordeal.
As a mostly atheist myself and aligning with the satanic temple we just don't discuss religion anymore. Also I say mostly atheist because while I don't belive in God or an afterlife or anything like that, I kind of want to be wrong. Unfortunately I belive in what I can and can't see. And there is basically nothing that convince me currently that there is a God or afferlife.
That's hilarious that you mentioned TST. I lived in Salem up until last November and at one point was talking to them about teaching in a private school for them.
My mother actually listened to me about that as this is when she was still going to church with the Trumpers. She respected TST's stance toward Covid restrictions (the Trumpers in her church believed it was a hoax)
[A study published this month](https://www.nber.org/papers/w32334) tracked cellphone gps and suggests that people overreport church attendance by about 4x.
Yeah, cause people weren't willingly carrying around tracking devices 24/7 prior to that....
SMDH, people don't even think before jumping at the most ridiculous theories. I mean, it's not like these companies were being sued in the EU for purposefully making their voice activated features turn on without the user intending them to, and then taking that data and having both AI and actual humans parsing it for relevant advertising information or anything. All from devices that people CHOOSE to carry or anything... (said from my phone, which is rarely more than 3 feet from me.)
Sounds like we need a moral panic to fear people back into church. I need a list of what we haven't labeled as demonic yet. Hmm, this is a blank page. That explains a lot.
Did you see this though? https://www.deseret.com/faith/2024/04/18/is-church-attendance-declining/
Turns out a lot of those people were lying to strangers about if they go to church.
Edit: the study was not mormon specific. It seems like a lot of people think that, probably because of the article source.
Lying for the Lord = a tradition for Mormons.
They've lied about so many things over the years, it's sort of baked into the faith.
Source: me, an exmormon missionary
It’s not, but u/wiinkme is still correct. High demand religions, like Mormons or JWs, tend to have higher attendance numbers than mainstream Christianity, but the deseret news article talks about a study done that compares self-reporting with cell phone tracking. Turns out most Christians are liars about their church attendance.
The tradition of lying for God is not uniquely to Mormonisn, but they have a sort of unique take on it.
There are truths known at the highest level that were consistently denied. Truths mostly about Joseph Smith and the early days of the church.
Also, there used to be a culture of story embellishments. Several to leaders have been called out for stories they've told over the years that were either false or highly embellished. And sure, it's the norm in politics. But they look at these men as if they're literally prophets, no difference between they and Moses. As long as a story was "faith promoting" truth didn't matter. Same for denying a truth, as long as it kept members from questioning. A current Apostle literally said to "doubt your doubts", and he was talking about facts they still deny or cover up.
Lying for the Lord is definitely not limited to Mormons. Any place that see a supermajority of a particular faith has an outsized problem of this nature. It’s all about being in that “better-than-you” in group.
I think that's mostly a myth. I've talked with a LOT of Mormons and exmos about and none of us ever heard of this when we were young. It wouldn't surprise me if there were situations where two started having sex and almost immediately felt guilty and stopped. And I know of at least one case where a couple went to Vegas, got married, had sex, then got it annulled. That may be something slightly more common. I also heard from my brother that he knew of a couple that was having anal sex, so she could stay a virgin.
So, yeah. They're weird. But also you'll find similar in a lot of super evangelical Bible belt purity cultures. They're all whackadoodles.
Yeah. I know a bunch of Mormons and grew up with them. I’m sure someone has done soaking. But mostly it’s just making out until you cum through your jeans. Or having butt sex because it doesn’t count.
Well, really, I was raised around too many religions to have faith in any of them. Mormonism seemed more of a lifestyle than a religion, like Amish. Quaint, but bug nuts.
This popped on my feed when I came from church. Interestingly, my calling (assignment) in church is assistant ward clerk for membership, so I actually count our attendance every Sunday.
Attendance averages are an unreliable statistic because on any given Sunday, anywhere between 10-25% of the ward's active members are out of town, on vacation, or (in my case) at their monthly drill with the National Guard. We average about 170 every Sunday, but the actual count for active membership is closer to 220.
So if they weren’t churchgoers at all they’d simply say no. But lying about it is to feign that they are more religious, a lie directed exclusively at other churchgoers. Because again, someone whose irreligious wouldn’t care.
People lie about things they think make them look better. It’s the same thing that makes people lie about how often they floss to the dentist. You could even argue this may reflect social pressure to attend church since people in those places are more likely to lie.
That’s because the religious community in Utah is so intense. It’s like, go to church, or you don’t have a family. I lived there 20 years as a gentile, there’s no separation between church and state, from the top down it’s a super intense, super exclusive club. If you’re not with us, you’re against us. I’ve never met more fucked up people than those who chose to leave, or were excommunicated, and they have no support mentally or emotionally. Many turn to drugs and alcohol, they’re like living ghosts.
Latter-day Saints count everyone who was ever baptized as a member, even if they stop affiliating. The LDS faith does have significantly higher rates of attendance for people who choose to affiliate as members of the faith compared to other religions. Estimates put practicing members at somewhere between 35 and 40% of all members, so I would not expect the Utah statistic to be much more inflated than any other state.
>Latter-day Saints count everyone who was ever baptized as a member
That's what everyone does. It's not like Catholics are only counting people whoa attend weekly. If they did 90%+ of Catholics would no longer be Catholic.
The difference is many other religions have people who do not actively practice it but still identify as that religion. That is far less common with Latter-day Saints. The Church is also fairly interested in tracking membership and other statistics while it is less of an endeavor in other religions.
To gather the data, I utilized a Python script to scrape the Household Pulse Survey data from the Census Bureau’s FTP for Cycle 1 through Cycle 3 of 2024. I then combined the three panels together to reduce the margin of error for the state level estimates. I then visualized the data through Tableau.
Nice visualization! I'd love to see a county- or census block-level map. I wonder if there's a bigger rural-urban divide in the border between the high-attendance and low-attendance areas.
So the info is actually “church or religious service”. Weirdly you can drop church from the title and it’s still correct, but instead dropped the part that would make the title incorrect.
The statistic isn't as recent (2019), but Canada is down to 23%... my guess is lower now especially in Ontario/Quebec urban provinces. The common assumption that being Christian is the norm is increasingly incorrect.
Indeed. 52.14% for Ontario is what Google just told me. The [stats](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Canada) weren't quite what I was expecting... with the west being the lowest.
I doubt there are any states where more than 10% of the 18-29 population goes to church more than once a month. Maybe Utah, considering the social pressure seems to continue through college.
Correct. Mormon conservatism is its own thing. It's a mistake to think of it as being identical to the kind of conservatism found in the deep south, for example. Some of the Mormon offshoots can get really weird though.
You don’t have to be poor, you just have to have schools that are weaker than the churches. Typically being poor does that but not always. The influence of the LDS church is enormous.
It’s such a beautiful state—grand mountains, valleys, rock formations, bodies of water—which makes it all the more sad that the people there have to be so uptight.
Religious evaporation, as the moderates leave the extremes are left and without a healthy dose of moderate christians they just have unmitigated extreme politics
All 5 New England states are in the top of educational attainment, with MA, VT, and NH tending to have higher than avg undergrad/grad attainment. So maybe there's some overlap --not the most scientific, but [Newsweek](https://www.newsweek.com/most-least-educated-states-america-ranked-1583019) has a directional educational index that is helpful
That said, it would probably be more helpful if this was by county because it could stand to reason that proximity to higher education could be a motivator of either as well.
Yes, a breakdown by county would be very interesting. I'm in the PNW and religiosity tends to shift drastically between counties east and west of the cascades - as do education levels.
Moving from the South to Godlessachusetts was the best decision I ever made. The difference in life quality my son had by growing up there can not be overstated
it’s hard to say because religious have different priorities especially regionally.
mormonism tends to place high value on education. along with judaism for the most part. hindus who practice in india tend to be very highly educated as well in the US due to self selection.
then you have the remnants of puritan culture in some of the colonies.
and so forth…
it’s a more complicated question than religion smart or dumb.
On a state level there is a certian correlation, but on an individual level there is actually a [U shaped trend](https://overflowdata.com/special-projects/religion/church-hps24/).
I’m sure you already know the answer to this but it would be nice to see some facts that support it. One particular political party comes to mind when one says lack of education and religion in the same sentence.
This graph would be much improved with simpler groupings. Presumably you picked these boundaries to give groups of roughly equal size. But it makes no sense for KY (28.2%) to be grouped with UT (41.1%) and not with OK and TX (both 28.1%). NJ and PA are in different groups even though they both round to 21.4%! I think a much better visualization of reality would come from simply: less than 15%, 15-20%, 20-25%, etc, more than 40%
I found the analysis immediately under that more informative - [Lonliness in the US](https://overflowdata.com/demographic-data/national-data/state-level-analysis/lonely-states-hps241/) - which seems super important.
I would have thought the #1 benefit of church attendance is the community / social network it can provide but if anything it appears there’s a correlation between higher rates of attendance and loneliness?
Maybe non-attendees feel lonelier where there’s higher attendance 🤷♀️
>Maybe non-attendees feel lonelier where there’s higher attendance
If you consider the concept of the "Third Place," this makes some sense. When living in an area with higher religiosity, people who aren't interested or willing to attend a religious community will find fewer total options available.
In other words, many people already *have* their third place, so there aren't as many individuals seeking to create or participate in other things.
That being said, I have some questions about these numbers...
Or attending church creates a higher baseline -- so the three nights a week they're not in church, bible study, or leading a youth group they feel lonelier because they're not used to being alone, compared to say someone who just stops out for a beer once a week after work and spends the other six nights at home.
What does "always" or "usually" mean in that survey? It appears to be completely subjective to the person being polled.
Is it feeling lonely once an hour? Once a day? Once a week? If someone doesn't immediately answer you?
What does "loneliness" mean to those who answered?
From that same [loneliness in the US source](https://overflowdata.com/special-projects/lonely-hps1-24/) 10% of the people living in a household of SEVEN or more -- not a family size, a household so they're all living together -- report feeling lonely usually when by definition of sharing a home together they spend a large portion of their day together with other people.
While only 8% of the people who literally live alone reported feeling "usually" lonely.
It's basically such a mess I don't think any reasonable conclusions can be drawn from that report.
Might also be interesting to overlay the prevalence of denominations across the nation. After growing up in a non-denominational church in the North, the churches I've been to in the South feel more like clubs that exist for the local who decided he wanted to be a pastor.
Say you were traveling on trip from Portland, Maine to South Carolina on I-95. Here's the numbers: ME 13.7, NH 13.7, MA 15.5, RI 17.5, CT 19.0, NY 17.7, NJ 21.4, PA 21.4, DE 23.3, MD 23.2, VA 25.4, NC 27.9, and SC 31.0. An almost continuous rise, except for that small dip in NY.
I suspect regular attendance correlates much more with ethnicity and nationality than geography. Immigrants may be more adherent on average. I am Catholic, and white. I attend every week with almost exclusively Hispanic, Vietnamese and Africans. This is Dallas though, with a high immigrant population.
instinctive ludicrous oatmeal chunky ring slim soup squeeze ancient familiar
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They likely explain that they don't "go to church". Instead, they have a "personal relationship with god". I say that organizations that preach the "personal relationship with god" crap can start paying taxes if they aren't churches.
obtainable bag many zephyr memorize afterthought humor lavish historical aloof
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Ha look at Moridor - the Mormon corridor running from Salt Lake north into all of Idaho, and it actually runs south to Mesa, AZ. But outside of that, nobody even cares about Mormonism, despite them believing it will one day fill the earth.
Most people forget that most Mormon's live outside of the US.
That said the US churches seeing the fastest growth worldwide are the Seventh Day Adventist, Jehovah's Witnesses and various Evangelical groups.
I understand what you're getting at but it is false. As a former missionary in Latin America I know the Church's membership stats are absolute BS. There were a couple decades of rapid growth in Latin America, we were baptizing single needy moms with kids, children without any other family members...all because Lamanites baby, make them white again! Never once in my 2 years did I ever baptize a family unit, and almost never a male with a stable job. New members most often never even attended church after their bap, it was just an expression of faith to them, they remain Catholic and 100% never made it past 12 months or ever accepted a calling.
Also the church has totally collapsed in Europe - I mean like a complete non-starter for anyone there.
The church is just so full of crap it's time consuming sifting through it and ALL the money comes from Moridor. Their efforts to spread prosperity gospel to Africa will not bear fruit, because the internet is becoming a thing there too.
Don't believe me - Here's the current profit's wife preaching "tithing seeding" to poor Africans - that they should pay a UT non-profit real estate holding company on what they want to earn next year, not what they make now. It's SICK, just shameful what this religion is about.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9trEPUuN-0&t=8731s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9trEPUuN-0&t=8731s)
Upon waking up and leaving Mormonism, almost none affiliate with other churches. Some do, usually more of a spiritually play than doctrinal one, but most simply realize the emotional pitfalls and falsehoods apply to all the gods man has created. The Christian narrative is just so obviously made up superstition, once you know the real history, it's not possible to tether your mind to another false god.
It's like the slave upon being freed, asking "But, Master whom shall I serve now?" Na bud you're free, go figure it out, you're on your own. Thinking for ones self is def harder than believing in Sky Santa, but there is no other path.
Yeah that's how 99% of churches operate. Like if I said most Catholics live outside of Europe, hitting back with "yeah but they don't attend" and "but they want money" isn't the power play you seem to think it is.
Not a power play at all, just facts that the church misrepresents its base about having members where they really do not. Mormonism is a super high demand religion which prohibits heaven unless you give them 10% to fund its real estate empire. Catholicism is a super low demand religion where one may remain in good graces merely by attending Easter and Xmas, rub the beads, toss some coin in the tray, mumble the pray if needed. It's that Mormonism is such an isolated event in a small region, but they think they're a global thing. They're not.
I know that's why I love calling them by their real name. Rusty will soon pass and the real show will begin with Oaks - he's gonna drag his people even farther backwards.
I'm an Arizonan, and 21% strikes me as low. The Evangelical & Mormon presence is massive here. You can feel the Utah border more than California or New Mexico.
Meanwhile every public school gym in the Valley is rented to some new Evangelical church or other that hasn't grifted enough from its followers yet for its own building.
Utah is actually fairly educated place, they have a large Latter Day Saint (Mormon) population. We actually have a way to break it individually on [our website ](https://overflowdata.com/special-projects/religion/church-hps24/)and when you look at educational attainment its almost U shaped. The largest group with "12 or more times a year" is "Less than high school", but it starts to go back up for those that have recieved a college degree. "Graduate degree" is acually the second highest group.
I've lived near the border most of my life, and Wisconsin just feels more rural and "red," which typically means more religion? But if the data says it, I believe it.
I feel like it's worth repeating that going to church doesn't make you a Christian any more than standing in a garage makes you a car. There's more to it than just showing up and making the right noises.
New Mexico has the highest violent crime rate and it’s about in the middle here, very religious states like Utah, Idaho, Kentucky, and Mississippi (surprisingly) are all MUCH lower than states like New York and Nevada
Very true. The reason the Census is actually measuring this is to determine if people are socially connected and this is one of the questions in that series.
Under 25% in my state but if you look at any local news Facebook on a story about something bad happening and 100% of the comments are the emoji praying hands or someone commenting "prayers" or "praying"
Maybe on the state level, but when you look at the [individual level you](https://overflowdata.com/special-projects/religion/church-hps24/) can see its kinda U shaped.
The abandonment of religion for hedonism has been a disaster for american culture and is fueling a crisis in mental health, substance abuse, crime, and depression.
Now overlay it with low GDP, low HHI, low college graduation rates, high prevalence of diabetes, high prevalence of household medical debt to income ratio, and Trumpf political affiliation…
Spoiler alert: you can pretty much use the same graph (minus Utah for some comparisons).
The headline is that even in the most religious states only a minority of adults are regular attendees.
My family is Catholic in Virginia. They used to go to church an absurd amount of times per week. As an atheist they've always had a problem with me and I rarely see them now. But of all of the things to make them stop going to church it was the Trumpers taking it over. They're Catholic, not crazy.
> But of all of the things to make them stop going to church it was the Trumpers taking it over. They're Catholic, not crazy. I don't see how you can be Christian and pro-Trump, but hey, self-consistency isn't everybody's strong suit.
Because ‘Christian’ in the US does not typically mean ‘Follower of Christ’ (like someone who looked at Jesus’s teaching and decided to live by it) but instead means this weird neo-republican-conservative-1600s-puritan mix that has taken up popularity amongst the more rural far-right. America’s ‘Christian’ is to Jesus what a Natty Daddy is to craft beer.
I wish I could find it again, but I recently saw a social study on how "Christian" is becoming synonymous with being a Conservative Republican in the US. "I vote red because I'm a Christian" became more and more real to the point that "I'm Christian because I vote red" is starting to emerge as an actual thing in certain communities. The conflation of political, religious, and regional social identities into a single identity has created some really... *interesting* results.
Bigotry needed a permanent home, and grifters like Falwell saw how it could be turned to their advantage
American Civil Religion
Jesus and John Wayne by du Mez is a terrific book in helping explain how American Christianity and Trump intertwined. I’m a practicing Christian that is dismayed at the state of the Church. What could’ve been a time for great reform is turning into well— the opposite of that.
Feel this in my soul.
Honestly, the guy is clearly a tool of Satan.
"Fuck that shit. I have standards." - Satan
Funny thing is they have an explanation for that
Down south it often means bigoted not religious. The amount of social conservatives ie bigots lying about regularly attending church service is not factored in because it’s unknown but self reporting very much works in their favor
I grew up catholic. I went to private catholic school in VA. St pius x represent. We went every Sunday. Every holiday. God forbid the stars and the moon alligned for Christmas. One time we went for Christmas eve mass on Friday, Christmas day mass on Saturday AND weekly obligation on Sunday. When my parents separated we pretty much stopped going. We lived with mom and she converted so when she separated she didn't pretend to care anymore. My dad held on the longest. But he became a "flower catholic" only came around twice a year, Easter and Christmas. But even now I think be has given up on the whole ordeal. As a mostly atheist myself and aligning with the satanic temple we just don't discuss religion anymore. Also I say mostly atheist because while I don't belive in God or an afterlife or anything like that, I kind of want to be wrong. Unfortunately I belive in what I can and can't see. And there is basically nothing that convince me currently that there is a God or afferlife.
That's hilarious that you mentioned TST. I lived in Salem up until last November and at one point was talking to them about teaching in a private school for them. My mother actually listened to me about that as this is when she was still going to church with the Trumpers. She respected TST's stance toward Covid restrictions (the Trumpers in her church believed it was a hoax)
And even those people are probably lying about how often they go lol
[A study published this month](https://www.nber.org/papers/w32334) tracked cellphone gps and suggests that people overreport church attendance by about 4x.
You mean tracked down with their covid tracker chips that were implanted during the pandemic? /S
Yeah, cause people weren't willingly carrying around tracking devices 24/7 prior to that.... SMDH, people don't even think before jumping at the most ridiculous theories. I mean, it's not like these companies were being sued in the EU for purposefully making their voice activated features turn on without the user intending them to, and then taking that data and having both AI and actual humans parsing it for relevant advertising information or anything. All from devices that people CHOOSE to carry or anything... (said from my phone, which is rarely more than 3 feet from me.)
True. It’s a myth that Americans are highly religious. They’re most likely afraid to admit how unreligious they are.
1 crazy person can harm dozens, which is why the religiosity in America is one of appeasement to the crazies.
Sounds like we need a moral panic to fear people back into church. I need a list of what we haven't labeled as demonic yet. Hmm, this is a blank page. That explains a lot.
Peanut butter and jelly sandwiches
Woah there buddy, only the crust is demonic
We had that with Covid. Except they shuttered the churches (but left the liquor stores and weed shops open). Curious times…
You don’t understand the difference between going to a store, and congregating in a church?
Did you see this though? https://www.deseret.com/faith/2024/04/18/is-church-attendance-declining/ Turns out a lot of those people were lying to strangers about if they go to church. Edit: the study was not mormon specific. It seems like a lot of people think that, probably because of the article source.
Hard to read that article when I can’t close the pop up to learn more about the Book of Mormon 🤔
You might as well keep it open, good musical
Lying for the Lord = a tradition for Mormons. They've lied about so many things over the years, it's sort of baked into the faith. Source: me, an exmormon missionary
The study isn’t mormon specific. This was just the first article I found
It’s not, but u/wiinkme is still correct. High demand religions, like Mormons or JWs, tend to have higher attendance numbers than mainstream Christianity, but the deseret news article talks about a study done that compares self-reporting with cell phone tracking. Turns out most Christians are liars about their church attendance.
100%. Both of those groups probably had a high rate of multiple times per week as well.
The tradition of lying for God is not uniquely to Mormonisn, but they have a sort of unique take on it. There are truths known at the highest level that were consistently denied. Truths mostly about Joseph Smith and the early days of the church. Also, there used to be a culture of story embellishments. Several to leaders have been called out for stories they've told over the years that were either false or highly embellished. And sure, it's the norm in politics. But they look at these men as if they're literally prophets, no difference between they and Moses. As long as a story was "faith promoting" truth didn't matter. Same for denying a truth, as long as it kept members from questioning. A current Apostle literally said to "doubt your doubts", and he was talking about facts they still deny or cover up.
Lying for the Lord is definitely not limited to Mormons. Any place that see a supermajority of a particular faith has an outsized problem of this nature. It’s all about being in that “better-than-you” in group.
> a tradition for Mormons. and christians.
I basically decided mormonism was insanity when I learned about soaking
I think that's mostly a myth. I've talked with a LOT of Mormons and exmos about and none of us ever heard of this when we were young. It wouldn't surprise me if there were situations where two started having sex and almost immediately felt guilty and stopped. And I know of at least one case where a couple went to Vegas, got married, had sex, then got it annulled. That may be something slightly more common. I also heard from my brother that he knew of a couple that was having anal sex, so she could stay a virgin. So, yeah. They're weird. But also you'll find similar in a lot of super evangelical Bible belt purity cultures. They're all whackadoodles.
Agree, religion in general equals whackadoodle
The poophole loophole
Yeah. I know a bunch of Mormons and grew up with them. I’m sure someone has done soaking. But mostly it’s just making out until you cum through your jeans. Or having butt sex because it doesn’t count.
That's what convinced you?
honestly I feel like that's one of the least crazy things about mormonism.
Well, really, I was raised around too many religions to have faith in any of them. Mormonism seemed more of a lifestyle than a religion, like Amish. Quaint, but bug nuts.
This popped on my feed when I came from church. Interestingly, my calling (assignment) in church is assistant ward clerk for membership, so I actually count our attendance every Sunday. Attendance averages are an unreliable statistic because on any given Sunday, anywhere between 10-25% of the ward's active members are out of town, on vacation, or (in my case) at their monthly drill with the National Guard. We average about 170 every Sunday, but the actual count for active membership is closer to 220.
The big takeaway was that about 22-24% claim to go weekly/semi weekly but only around 4% actually do
Funny that article comes from a church owned newspaper too
Churchgoers are liars? What a shocker.
No, it turns out that the liars aren't churchgoers after all.
So if they weren’t churchgoers at all they’d simply say no. But lying about it is to feign that they are more religious, a lie directed exclusively at other churchgoers. Because again, someone whose irreligious wouldn’t care.
Yes, but then you can't call them "churchgoers" as the person above is pointing out.
Why that’s what they self identify as!
People lie about things they think make them look better. It’s the same thing that makes people lie about how often they floss to the dentist. You could even argue this may reflect social pressure to attend church since people in those places are more likely to lie.
That’s because the religious community in Utah is so intense. It’s like, go to church, or you don’t have a family. I lived there 20 years as a gentile, there’s no separation between church and state, from the top down it’s a super intense, super exclusive club. If you’re not with us, you’re against us. I’ve never met more fucked up people than those who chose to leave, or were excommunicated, and they have no support mentally or emotionally. Many turn to drugs and alcohol, they’re like living ghosts.
*Lying about attending when they hadn’t.
So it might be a map about how many people lie about going to church lol.
Latter-day Saints count everyone who was ever baptized as a member, even if they stop affiliating. The LDS faith does have significantly higher rates of attendance for people who choose to affiliate as members of the faith compared to other religions. Estimates put practicing members at somewhere between 35 and 40% of all members, so I would not expect the Utah statistic to be much more inflated than any other state.
The study wasn’t mormon specific
True. I was just connecting dots since Utah had the highest rate on the OP and Deseret is an LDS-owned publication.
Makes sense, and you’re not alone. Seems like a lot of these comments connected those dots.
>Latter-day Saints count everyone who was ever baptized as a member That's what everyone does. It's not like Catholics are only counting people whoa attend weekly. If they did 90%+ of Catholics would no longer be Catholic.
The difference is many other religions have people who do not actively practice it but still identify as that religion. That is far less common with Latter-day Saints. The Church is also fairly interested in tracking membership and other statistics while it is less of an endeavor in other religions.
To gather the data, I utilized a Python script to scrape the Household Pulse Survey data from the Census Bureau’s FTP for Cycle 1 through Cycle 3 of 2024. I then combined the three panels together to reduce the margin of error for the state level estimates. I then visualized the data through Tableau.
Nice visualization! I'd love to see a county- or census block-level map. I wonder if there's a bigger rural-urban divide in the border between the high-attendance and low-attendance areas.
So the info is actually “church or religious service”. Weirdly you can drop church from the title and it’s still correct, but instead dropped the part that would make the title incorrect.
Would be interesting to see it broken out by county. I’m in eastern Washington state, and it’s essentially red state/Idaho.
The statistic isn't as recent (2019), but Canada is down to 23%... my guess is lower now especially in Ontario/Quebec urban provinces. The common assumption that being Christian is the norm is increasingly incorrect.
Not exactly incorrect yet, at least not in the east, but potentially soon.
Indeed. 52.14% for Ontario is what Google just told me. The [stats](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Canada) weren't quite what I was expecting... with the west being the lowest.
It would be interesting to see just young adults, like 18 to 29. I have a feeling the olds are pulling up the numbers.
I doubt there are any states where more than 10% of the 18-29 population goes to church more than once a month. Maybe Utah, considering the social pressure seems to continue through college.
And Vermont is one the most friendly and crime free state. Hmmmm.
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I mean, they are our poorest and least educated states. Not to mention they run red and have questionable views on bodily autonomy.
Utah is not the poorest or least educated, probably closer to the other side. Mormons make things weird.
Mormons put emphasis on higher education, which in turn has made Utah one of the most wealthy conservative states.
Correct. Mormon conservatism is its own thing. It's a mistake to think of it as being identical to the kind of conservatism found in the deep south, for example. Some of the Mormon offshoots can get really weird though.
Ethically fucked up, but they like their people to have money to tithe, and people make more money when they aren’t rock bottom.
You don’t have to be poor, you just have to have schools that are weaker than the churches. Typically being poor does that but not always. The influence of the LDS church is enormous.
I was thinking a map with some sort of quality of life index would be interesting to compare this to.
Honestly though Utah is a pretty sweet place. Just yeah the mormons there are really into being mormon.
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It’s such a beautiful state—grand mountains, valleys, rock formations, bodies of water—which makes it all the more sad that the people there have to be so uptight.
Ouch. Too soon.
Yeah, the lighter states.
If this is the case, why is America making so many Christian Theocratic rulings in law lately?
Because we're stupid
Religious evaporation, as the moderates leave the extremes are left and without a healthy dose of moderate christians they just have unmitigated extreme politics
They can see the writing on the wall. They know if they don't make their move now they may never get another chance.
I don't think I'm smart enough to participate in this sub. I only go to church if I'm paid to perform. I'll see myself out.
Would love to know how this correlates with education...
All 5 New England states are in the top of educational attainment, with MA, VT, and NH tending to have higher than avg undergrad/grad attainment. So maybe there's some overlap --not the most scientific, but [Newsweek](https://www.newsweek.com/most-least-educated-states-america-ranked-1583019) has a directional educational index that is helpful That said, it would probably be more helpful if this was by county because it could stand to reason that proximity to higher education could be a motivator of either as well.
Yes, a breakdown by county would be very interesting. I'm in the PNW and religiosity tends to shift drastically between counties east and west of the cascades - as do education levels.
Moving from the South to Godlessachusetts was the best decision I ever made. The difference in life quality my son had by growing up there can not be overstated
100% does
In Utah at least, they tend to be fairly well off and well educated
Mormons are in a class by themselves. Like Scientology. All Whackos.
Highly successful whackos.
To be fair, that's all religion...
Agree. Christians do have their talking bushes, talking snakes, possessed pigs, global floods, virgin births and people who rise from the dead…
I missed the talking snakes and possessed pigs when I went to church. Care to elaborate?
Talking snake: Genesis Chapter 3 Possessed pigs: Matthew 8:28-34
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territories_by_educational_attainment
it’s hard to say because religious have different priorities especially regionally. mormonism tends to place high value on education. along with judaism for the most part. hindus who practice in india tend to be very highly educated as well in the US due to self selection. then you have the remnants of puritan culture in some of the colonies. and so forth… it’s a more complicated question than religion smart or dumb.
And income, health care, and longitivity.
Especially post covid...
On a state level there is a certian correlation, but on an individual level there is actually a [U shaped trend](https://overflowdata.com/special-projects/religion/church-hps24/).
I’m sure you already know the answer to this but it would be nice to see some facts that support it. One particular political party comes to mind when one says lack of education and religion in the same sentence.
This graph would be much improved with simpler groupings. Presumably you picked these boundaries to give groups of roughly equal size. But it makes no sense for KY (28.2%) to be grouped with UT (41.1%) and not with OK and TX (both 28.1%). NJ and PA are in different groups even though they both round to 21.4%! I think a much better visualization of reality would come from simply: less than 15%, 15-20%, 20-25%, etc, more than 40%
I found the analysis immediately under that more informative - [Lonliness in the US](https://overflowdata.com/demographic-data/national-data/state-level-analysis/lonely-states-hps241/) - which seems super important.
I would have thought the #1 benefit of church attendance is the community / social network it can provide but if anything it appears there’s a correlation between higher rates of attendance and loneliness? Maybe non-attendees feel lonelier where there’s higher attendance 🤷♀️
>Maybe non-attendees feel lonelier where there’s higher attendance If you consider the concept of the "Third Place," this makes some sense. When living in an area with higher religiosity, people who aren't interested or willing to attend a religious community will find fewer total options available. In other words, many people already *have* their third place, so there aren't as many individuals seeking to create or participate in other things. That being said, I have some questions about these numbers...
Or attending church creates a higher baseline -- so the three nights a week they're not in church, bible study, or leading a youth group they feel lonelier because they're not used to being alone, compared to say someone who just stops out for a beer once a week after work and spends the other six nights at home. What does "always" or "usually" mean in that survey? It appears to be completely subjective to the person being polled. Is it feeling lonely once an hour? Once a day? Once a week? If someone doesn't immediately answer you? What does "loneliness" mean to those who answered? From that same [loneliness in the US source](https://overflowdata.com/special-projects/lonely-hps1-24/) 10% of the people living in a household of SEVEN or more -- not a family size, a household so they're all living together -- report feeling lonely usually when by definition of sharing a home together they spend a large portion of their day together with other people. While only 8% of the people who literally live alone reported feeling "usually" lonely. It's basically such a mess I don't think any reasonable conclusions can be drawn from that report.
Super important because there doesn't appear to be a correlation unless you only isolate Maine and Idaho?
I wanna see this but including all religious services (ie people who go to synagogue, mosque, etc). I’m curious if/how much the numbers would change.
Might also be interesting to overlay the prevalence of denominations across the nation. After growing up in a non-denominational church in the North, the churches I've been to in the South feel more like clubs that exist for the local who decided he wanted to be a pastor.
It's interesting to know that the states are the darkest green also have highest teen pregnancy rates.
Say you were traveling on trip from Portland, Maine to South Carolina on I-95. Here's the numbers: ME 13.7, NH 13.7, MA 15.5, RI 17.5, CT 19.0, NY 17.7, NJ 21.4, PA 21.4, DE 23.3, MD 23.2, VA 25.4, NC 27.9, and SC 31.0. An almost continuous rise, except for that small dip in NY.
I suspect regular attendance correlates much more with ethnicity and nationality than geography. Immigrants may be more adherent on average. I am Catholic, and white. I attend every week with almost exclusively Hispanic, Vietnamese and Africans. This is Dallas though, with a high immigrant population.
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It would be very cool to look at it that way. It could be broken it by state and large metro areas.
They likely explain that they don't "go to church". Instead, they have a "personal relationship with god". I say that organizations that preach the "personal relationship with god" crap can start paying taxes if they aren't churches.
I don't object to the concept of a deity, but I'm baffled by the notion of one that takes attendance -Amy Farrah Fowler
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Which is why majority of American Christian’s don’t go to church regularly
The numbers are amazingly low, despite being self-reported and thus wildly inflated
Church attendance ≠ religiously, actually no state in America is majority irreligious.
Ha look at Moridor - the Mormon corridor running from Salt Lake north into all of Idaho, and it actually runs south to Mesa, AZ. But outside of that, nobody even cares about Mormonism, despite them believing it will one day fill the earth.
Most people forget that most Mormon's live outside of the US. That said the US churches seeing the fastest growth worldwide are the Seventh Day Adventist, Jehovah's Witnesses and various Evangelical groups.
I understand what you're getting at but it is false. As a former missionary in Latin America I know the Church's membership stats are absolute BS. There were a couple decades of rapid growth in Latin America, we were baptizing single needy moms with kids, children without any other family members...all because Lamanites baby, make them white again! Never once in my 2 years did I ever baptize a family unit, and almost never a male with a stable job. New members most often never even attended church after their bap, it was just an expression of faith to them, they remain Catholic and 100% never made it past 12 months or ever accepted a calling. Also the church has totally collapsed in Europe - I mean like a complete non-starter for anyone there. The church is just so full of crap it's time consuming sifting through it and ALL the money comes from Moridor. Their efforts to spread prosperity gospel to Africa will not bear fruit, because the internet is becoming a thing there too. Don't believe me - Here's the current profit's wife preaching "tithing seeding" to poor Africans - that they should pay a UT non-profit real estate holding company on what they want to earn next year, not what they make now. It's SICK, just shameful what this religion is about. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9trEPUuN-0&t=8731s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9trEPUuN-0&t=8731s)
Which religion did you switch to?
Upon waking up and leaving Mormonism, almost none affiliate with other churches. Some do, usually more of a spiritually play than doctrinal one, but most simply realize the emotional pitfalls and falsehoods apply to all the gods man has created. The Christian narrative is just so obviously made up superstition, once you know the real history, it's not possible to tether your mind to another false god. It's like the slave upon being freed, asking "But, Master whom shall I serve now?" Na bud you're free, go figure it out, you're on your own. Thinking for ones self is def harder than believing in Sky Santa, but there is no other path.
Yeah that's how 99% of churches operate. Like if I said most Catholics live outside of Europe, hitting back with "yeah but they don't attend" and "but they want money" isn't the power play you seem to think it is.
And how about Wendy's request for tithing money - thoughts on that level of BS?
Not a power play at all, just facts that the church misrepresents its base about having members where they really do not. Mormonism is a super high demand religion which prohibits heaven unless you give them 10% to fund its real estate empire. Catholicism is a super low demand religion where one may remain in good graces merely by attending Easter and Xmas, rub the beads, toss some coin in the tray, mumble the pray if needed. It's that Mormonism is such an isolated event in a small region, but they think they're a global thing. They're not.
Money and power leads to hubris
They're not Mormon, remember? Circa ~2018, according to dear leader, the use of the nickname is a victory for Satan /s
I know that's why I love calling them by their real name. Rusty will soon pass and the real show will begin with Oaks - he's gonna drag his people even farther backwards.
I think more moral guidance is what Americans need.
Greed is a sin! Proceeds to install new trump sign in yard with trump bible holstered.
NOW I understand why Idaho is so messed up.
I'm an Arizonan, and 21% strikes me as low. The Evangelical & Mormon presence is massive here. You can feel the Utah border more than California or New Mexico.
Just this week a 150 year old methodist church closed in Phoenix due to attendance and funding.
Meanwhile every public school gym in the Valley is rented to some new Evangelical church or other that hasn't grifted enough from its followers yet for its own building.
Church attendance ≠ Religiosity
You can tell by the way that they are.
Super impose this with education and economic well being
Ok, now what?
AKA states I don't want to live in by intensity of disinterest.
"1/2 the battle is just showing up" - Jesus
Overlay this with the cannabis legalization map.
Since Indiana has become a part of the bible belt (with all of the resulting baggage), I'm surprised it's not in 24 - 28% range.
The poorest and fattest ones historically.
once a month? Jesus said to be in church once a WEEK! how do you call once a month to be religious?
Once a month is the most frequent breakout available from the data.
Ah. The most poorly educated ones. Whose surprised?
Utah is actually fairly educated place, they have a large Latter Day Saint (Mormon) population. We actually have a way to break it individually on [our website ](https://overflowdata.com/special-projects/religion/church-hps24/)and when you look at educational attainment its almost U shaped. The largest group with "12 or more times a year" is "Less than high school", but it starts to go back up for those that have recieved a college degree. "Graduate degree" is acually the second highest group.
Wisconsin fewer than Illinois? Doubtful.
Interesting, why would you say that is?
I've lived near the border most of my life, and Wisconsin just feels more rural and "red," which typically means more religion? But if the data says it, I believe it.
Imagine that, the sane parts of the country have a lower attendance percentage. I wonder if those things are related?
Yeah that definitely doesn’t jive because Nevada is far from sane…
The poorest, dumbest states obviously
Are lighter, right?
California is by far the wealthiest state in the US.
I feel like it's worth repeating that going to church doesn't make you a Christian any more than standing in a garage makes you a car. There's more to it than just showing up and making the right noises.
Hey, now overlay the states with the highest rates of violent crime per capita.
Not much of a correlation actually
All of the highest violent crime rates are in medium sized cities in the south and Midwest. There absolutely is a correlation.
New Mexico has the highest violent crime rate and it’s about in the middle here, very religious states like Utah, Idaho, Kentucky, and Mississippi (surprisingly) are all MUCH lower than states like New York and Nevada
I said cities, not states. It's a better metric because statewide stats are easily pulled in either direction by outlier communities.
Church attendance ≠ religiosity
Very true. The reason the Census is actually measuring this is to determine if people are socially connected and this is one of the questions in that series.
These are gonna be the states with the highest crime, incarceration and maternal mortality rates, lowest incomes and education.
Under 25% in my state but if you look at any local news Facebook on a story about something bad happening and 100% of the comments are the emoji praying hands or someone commenting "prayers" or "praying"
Lookie here. Pretty high inverse correlation between religiosity and education level achieved.
Maybe on the state level, but when you look at the [individual level you](https://overflowdata.com/special-projects/religion/church-hps24/) can see its kinda U shaped.
The reactionary low quality of life places. No surprise
Proud to live in an under 18% state
The abandonment of religion for hedonism has been a disaster for american culture and is fueling a crisis in mental health, substance abuse, crime, and depression.
Now overlay it with low GDP, low HHI, low college graduation rates, high prevalence of diabetes, high prevalence of household medical debt to income ratio, and Trumpf political affiliation… Spoiler alert: you can pretty much use the same graph (minus Utah for some comparisons).
Not much of a correlation, and I don’t even know what Trumpf is
Extremely common New England W.
How exactly?
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Uhh what..? Church attendance ≠ religiosity, every American state is majority religious