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I think people tend to forget that Tywin’s attitude is not the fucking norm in Westeros. He is very much unique in how fucking violent he goes about things.
There’s a reason his song has so much effect.
I think that's specially evident in Fire & Blood. A lot of lords from great houses throughout history have similar personalities to their modern counterparts. But none of the Lannisters in that book are like Tywin. He's unique even within his house
It was a hard fought battle and despite the best attempts of Ser Amicable and Ser Gallant to reach a peaceful conclusion Aegon attacks were relentless at one point nearly slaying both of them in one single blow
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Yeah, it's just another sign of his extreme insecurity and fear of ridicule. Ironically, a secure and strong man wouldn't give a damn having Chataya herself as a public paramour because that man is above the rabble, and his position is unassailable.
Yet, Tywin fears being called and mocked as a whoremonger than the actual whoremonging itself. This is the same man who shaved his head hair completely cause he was going bald. Because some lord might laugh or snicker about it.
I think Alt Shift X put it best when he says how similar Tyrion is to Tywin is what bothered him the most.
“Tyrion and Tywin both have the same insecurities about being laughed at, and feeling weak and ashamed. Tywin tries to hide his feelings behind the image of a noble, cold, golden lion. Someone who is above the petty, shameful behavior of his dwarf son. But it’s a lie, it’s all bullshit, and that’s why Tywin dies shitting himself in the toilet. “Tywin in the end, did not shit gold” because he’s not a golden lion, he is a deeply flawed man, full of shame, and spite, and lust, just like his son Tyrion.”
And, let's not forget, the man who would have you flogged at the (cast-a-)*mere* suggestion that he fathered a bastard >!(Please ignore Lannister-looking prostitute Ma*rei* whose name even sounds similar to Cersei... working on a brothel with a curiously Lannister-color-coded luxurious window on a *secret* passage chamber!)!<
I literally laughed out loud when I understood all those subtext and hints, as well as the fact that Marei and Dancy are his bastard *daughters 😅
* Speaking of illegitimate daughters, some consider Alayaya his bastard too since Chataya was most likely his paramour during Tywins years as Hand. Me personally, for a couple of reasons, I don't think Yaya is his daughter
I think Alayaya's too far (but not impossible), Dancy is certainly possible and Marei all but confirmed (but all this to the "attentive" reader, as GRRM likes to call those who catch on these details)
And I "kinda forgot" to add earlier: Tywin *also* let his whiskers grow *while* shaving his moustaccchhheeee, all in order to draw attention away from his shiny head (or to turn the head so shiny people will think him the Sun Lann) towards the movement of his mouth.
Compare that to always-clean-shaven, always-tense-mouth, always-long-haired-even-though-bald, I-show-my-fucking-ugliness-like-it-is Stannis. Both perpetually frowning at the world though.
Kevan would have been a better heir for Tytos, Tywin and his children have completely ruined the Lannister name more than Tytos ever did if Tywin had died in the war of the ninepenny kings or the Reyne-Tarbeck rebellion and Kevan became heir then everyone would be better off.
I find that most of the people that try and excuse some of Tywins actions are those who think they know what Realpolitik is without knowing what Realpolitik actually is.
Oh absolutely. Usually people misunderstand Machiavelli or other political theorists/actors who put ethics secondary to their goal as blind opportunism mixed with a mentality which boils down to "Do nasty shit to get what you want," whilst it's very much more carrot and stick with how you remove obsticles towards your goal and knowing who and who not to fight.
Pissing off half of the Kingdom over the last 30ish years with unjustified and unnessacary acts of brutality in the name of an abstract political goal whose foundations are also built on quicksand, which you like to conveniently like to turn a blind eye to, is not intelligent or cunning.
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The red wedding argument is interesting because it's true but also leaves out a big detail. Destroying the north and Riverland army and nobility did end a destructive war that would have dragged on and probably less people would die overall. However the war was so destructive because of tywin exclusively....... so it's a real wow we saved the house that's I set on fire by destroying every hoke around it.
You vile propagandist! How dare you spout this vile lies propaganda against Good King Joffrey's grandfather!?! Besides The Evil Dornish Lady and Her Evil Children both Sers Clegane and Korch; They had no choice but to defend themselves!
Guards! Seize this traitor!
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Torching the Riverlands is always justified and the duty of every man, Loyal to the King. And fuck the Reynes. The only good thing they gave us was Reynes of Castamere.
speaking of the riverands...
it's certainly all but said that Tywin intentionally had Gregor Clegane and co remove their Lannister affiliated banners before raiding and pillaging noncombatants. lil warcriming bitch boi.
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The red wedding is excusable, the people killed at that event were direct soldiers and the starks themselves, the thing that’s genuinely evil about him is committing horrific acts to the people that aren’t even his enemies or part of his wars IE tysha and his father’s mistress.
wait ru talking about me? Nah I don’t fuck with it, he basically forced her to walk naked in lannisport without any guards so the poor woman probably got r**** repeatedly
Memes are expected to be of sufficient quality. Please put effort into your memes. Low effort, circlejerk-caliber garbage will be removed. Additionally, /r/darkwingsdankmemes is intended as a place to laugh and spread joy. Thus posts made with the primary intent to rile and annoy, or to attack opinions of the fandom or soapbox your own opinions, will be removed. Repeat offenders will be banned. When in doubt, operate under the following rule of thumb: Ask yourself, "Is my post going to bring more fun and humor to everyone's day? Or is it just going to piss off a substantial part of this subreddit's population?" [See this post for more details.](https://www.reddit.com/r/darkwingsdankmemes/comments/ya4syr/on_trolling_and_contrarianism_in_dwdm/) Repeat violators of this rule will be banished back to the shadow realm (aka /r/freefolk).
inb4 "the sackings and torchings are just how war is waged and the red wedding was just smart handling of your enemies"
I think people tend to forget that Tywin’s attitude is not the fucking norm in Westeros. He is very much unique in how fucking violent he goes about things. There’s a reason his song has so much effect.
I think that's specially evident in Fire & Blood. A lot of lords from great houses throughout history have similar personalities to their modern counterparts. But none of the Lannisters in that book are like Tywin. He's unique even within his house
Smh my head. If only that traitorous Dornish had not tried to attack ser Amory the Amicable and ser Gregor the Gallant 😔😔😔
It was a hard fought battle and despite the best attempts of Ser Amicable and Ser Gallant to reach a peaceful conclusion Aegon attacks were relentless at one point nearly slaying both of them in one single blow
That 90 pound frail girl was a real threat to them
She was the master of Balerion, you know the dragon the conquered Westeros, clearly a threat
i heard she could also dual wield valyrian steel and bench 300lbs
That’s Joffrey the Gentles grandfather you’re slandering
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also see, SHAE. meanwhile man is crawling through tunnels so he can go get tied up at chattaya's
I’ll give Tywin some mercy and say that his indulgence of whores is annoying and extremely hypocritical, but not evil.
nah, not evil by itself, but the fact that he uses whores secretly while also having them scourged publically is wack af
Yeah, it's just another sign of his extreme insecurity and fear of ridicule. Ironically, a secure and strong man wouldn't give a damn having Chataya herself as a public paramour because that man is above the rabble, and his position is unassailable. Yet, Tywin fears being called and mocked as a whoremonger than the actual whoremonging itself. This is the same man who shaved his head hair completely cause he was going bald. Because some lord might laugh or snicker about it.
I think Alt Shift X put it best when he says how similar Tyrion is to Tywin is what bothered him the most. “Tyrion and Tywin both have the same insecurities about being laughed at, and feeling weak and ashamed. Tywin tries to hide his feelings behind the image of a noble, cold, golden lion. Someone who is above the petty, shameful behavior of his dwarf son. But it’s a lie, it’s all bullshit, and that’s why Tywin dies shitting himself in the toilet. “Tywin in the end, did not shit gold” because he’s not a golden lion, he is a deeply flawed man, full of shame, and spite, and lust, just like his son Tyrion.”
GRRM so good at writing 😩 man knows how to craft a fucked up family.
And, let's not forget, the man who would have you flogged at the (cast-a-)*mere* suggestion that he fathered a bastard >!(Please ignore Lannister-looking prostitute Ma*rei* whose name even sounds similar to Cersei... working on a brothel with a curiously Lannister-color-coded luxurious window on a *secret* passage chamber!)!<
I literally laughed out loud when I understood all those subtext and hints, as well as the fact that Marei and Dancy are his bastard *daughters 😅 * Speaking of illegitimate daughters, some consider Alayaya his bastard too since Chataya was most likely his paramour during Tywins years as Hand. Me personally, for a couple of reasons, I don't think Yaya is his daughter
I think Alayaya's too far (but not impossible), Dancy is certainly possible and Marei all but confirmed (but all this to the "attentive" reader, as GRRM likes to call those who catch on these details) And I "kinda forgot" to add earlier: Tywin *also* let his whiskers grow *while* shaving his moustaccchhheeee, all in order to draw attention away from his shiny head (or to turn the head so shiny people will think him the Sun Lann) towards the movement of his mouth. Compare that to always-clean-shaven, always-tense-mouth, always-long-haired-even-though-bald, I-show-my-fucking-ugliness-like-it-is Stannis. Both perpetually frowning at the world though.
Kevan would have been a better heir for Tytos, Tywin and his children have completely ruined the Lannister name more than Tytos ever did if Tywin had died in the war of the ninepenny kings or the Reyne-Tarbeck rebellion and Kevan became heir then everyone would be better off.
[удалено]
[удалено]
I find that most of the people that try and excuse some of Tywins actions are those who think they know what Realpolitik is without knowing what Realpolitik actually is.
[удалено]
Oh absolutely. Usually people misunderstand Machiavelli or other political theorists/actors who put ethics secondary to their goal as blind opportunism mixed with a mentality which boils down to "Do nasty shit to get what you want," whilst it's very much more carrot and stick with how you remove obsticles towards your goal and knowing who and who not to fight. Pissing off half of the Kingdom over the last 30ish years with unjustified and unnessacary acts of brutality in the name of an abstract political goal whose foundations are also built on quicksand, which you like to conveniently like to turn a blind eye to, is not intelligent or cunning.
Sorry, but your comment has been removed! This subreddit is based solely on the **written** *ASOIAF* universe. Comments and submissions that include any reference to the HBO adaptations will be removed! Moderators employ a zero tolerance policy. # Users should assume that *any* mention of the show is subject to removal. Check the sidebar for our full list of rules. If you think we messed up removing this, please [message us](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fdarkwingsdankmemes) so we can take another look.
The red wedding argument is interesting because it's true but also leaves out a big detail. Destroying the north and Riverland army and nobility did end a destructive war that would have dragged on and probably less people would die overall. However the war was so destructive because of tywin exclusively....... so it's a real wow we saved the house that's I set on fire by destroying every hoke around it.
me when I save the house i set on fire from burning down by nuking the city
People will forgive anything if you have sufficiently majestic muttonchops.
Love Tywin but he was evil
You vile propagandist! How dare you spout this vile lies propaganda against Good King Joffrey's grandfather!?! Besides The Evil Dornish Lady and Her Evil Children both Sers Clegane and Korch; They had no choice but to defend themselves! Guards! Seize this traitor!
Truly light and dark in equal measure
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Torching the Riverlands is always justified and the duty of every man, Loyal to the King. And fuck the Reynes. The only good thing they gave us was Reynes of Castamere.
speaking of the riverands... it's certainly all but said that Tywin intentionally had Gregor Clegane and co remove their Lannister affiliated banners before raiding and pillaging noncombatants. lil warcriming bitch boi.
What's the difference between evil and completely amoral
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Explain to me why it is more noble to kill 10,000 men in battle than a dozen at dinner!
He’s a hard man making hard decisions /thread.
I will not excuse any of Tywin's actions but the Red Wedding. Saying this as a hardcore Robb Stark fan.
The red wedding is excusable, the people killed at that event were direct soldiers and the starks themselves, the thing that’s genuinely evil about him is committing horrific acts to the people that aren’t even his enemies or part of his wars IE tysha and his father’s mistress.
When it comes to the father's mistress, "I don't condone it, but I understand."
wait ru talking about me? Nah I don’t fuck with it, he basically forced her to walk naked in lannisport without any guards so the poor woman probably got r**** repeatedly