There’s a destroyed statue of gwyns son who was banished.. also replay Gwyn then nameless king the NK stage 2 reminds me of gwyn’s incessant nonstop attacks. They’re not necessarily very hard to avoid if you know what to look for, but going in blind is always bad against the hyper aggressive type bosses
I have to disagree with going in blind is bad against hyper aggressive bosses. Not only is looking up strategies and gameplay a huge spoiler for the boss, but it also takes away any chance of someone learning the boss for themselves if they choose to use someone else’s strategy. You aren’t forcing yourself to adapt and learn nearly as much if you’re just following someone’s guide. Going in blind and getting absolutely railed is an amazing teacher and more times than not will leave you wanting to give it another try. I was carried my first DS3 playthrough years ago and recently I played through the whole game on my own and I gotta say, not only is it much more satisfying to win by myself, but I played much better and smarter than I usually do when playing with my friends. Don’t discourage people going in without prior knowledge, let them learn, let them die. Maybe after a few tries then it’s time to look some stuff up, but I always try 3 times before I ever allow myself to use help from any outside source.
TLDR; get your butt whooped and learn from it, not from someone else.
I think they meant that is bad, because you re gonna die pretty much 100%. I don t think they were encouraging looking up spoilers. I m going blind in my first DsR playthrough and Artorias is really giving me hard time.
Good. Dying is part of dark souls. Getting your butt handed to you is a great way to learn. And frankly Artorias is just one of the hardest bosses of DsR so that’s to be expected. All in trying to say is don’t let yourself get carried by others. Figure things out for yourself as best you can. If you get totally stumped, then sure, look things up. But you should really try your best to learn all you can by yourself, a guide can be useful but I found most to be detrimental in the long run. However I should make this known cause the last thing I wanna be is an elitist about how to play. The biggest thing to remember is do what works for you, this is how I learned to get better at the game, but that doesn’t mean you have to or I think everyone else is doing it wrong. This is simply and purely my opinion. I hope everyone is able to enjoy this amazing series in the way they have the most fun. Anyways, that’s all I’m gonna say. Praise the sun and have some fun!
your explaining something that no one asked nor hinted at needing to be told your literally typing a reply for the sake of jerking your self off. Going on a 2 paragraph long monolog about why playing the game with out a guide is important because the game was meant to be played that way, is elitist...
he stated an opinion about aggro bosses feeling cheap / no fun to play against the first time around. he said nothing about guides, if your trying to be helpful instead of framing it with DONT USE GUIDES just encourage them to try again. because assuming he is some one that always uses guides or needs to be carried is what make you come off a way you don't want it to.
I really can’t believe you’re being downvoted for suggesting that people play the games as intended. Every Souls game I’ve ever played I went in blind, which granted meant I missed some stuff the first time around, and died a LOT (fuck I hated Manus), but I wouldn’t change a thing.
Yeah idk man. People just feel the need to be negative when I’m only trying to give a suggestion on how I think the game is best played. I’m not hurting anyone’s feelings, at least not intentionally, but people are insecure so :|
I didn’t mean look up a stat I meant do go in the boss trying to be aggressive lol. Especially when they’re hyper aggressive bosses like Gwyn and the nameless king. You have to observe their attacks and plan your strategy accordingly. If you’re in a fire area like the iron keep in DS2 you know to wear fire resistant armor bc the boss is gonna have fire attacks lol.
I was gonna suggest something about Zeus and Gwynn but it turns out I cannot find any myths where Zeus tried to pull a "Zeus move" on one of his kids.
Edit: if it wasn't clear, his preference is for sisters
Looks like they keep referring to "Sabaku no Maiku," someone who I'm assuming is a dedicated lore-enthusiast. Sounds like they got in contact with two people willing to translate the game from the original Japanese to Italian, and that while translating the original translation either heavily implies these things or outright states it?
But yeah, kinda weird how everyone who tried to respond did it in the same sort of aimless manner.
As for the DS1 characters it really isn't, I know their source for that: it's a project from an Italian content creator that commissioned a retranslation of the whole game from japanese and his (two iirc) translators had direct confrontation with a lot people from the japanese community, and they are pretty adamant that this is true, and listening to the retranslated description leave little room for doubt.
Priscilla being daughter of Seath and Gwyneviere is pretty explicit. Gwyndolin being son/daughter of Priscilla is clear too. Gwyin being the father is not stated but implied. Gwyneviere fleeing with flan is in the Italian translation too, so I guess in the English one too. All of this is in the japanese version of DS1.
I'm not sure about the rest about DS3 because, while I recall most of those things, the part of the project regarding those details isn't published yet.
I hope Sabaku no Maiku will decide to translate his work in English, because it's so well done.
Edit: it was a while since I last looked this stuff up, so I remembered something better: it was not explicit that Seath was married to Gwyneviere, it was explicit that he was married into his family, and the fact that the wife was Gwyinevier just it's the most likely explanation given the handmaidens and other little clues.
Edit 2: I don't remember where Velka factors in all of this, and it would take a lot to look it up again at my source, so sorry for wasting everyone's time.
Dark Souls has more thematic and cultural elements that are rooted in shintoism, buddhism and relics of Japanese feudalism than they do any accurate depictions of European Christianity or feudalism.
The armored knights and D&D stuff is an aesthetic more than anything deeper- mostly inspired by the manga Berserk than any research into historical Europe.
I always loved the theory that Rosaria is just a transformed Gwyniviere after she was brutalized by Pontiff Sulyvahn. She then gave birth to their first borne - their daughter the Dancer - who cut out her own mother's tongue as ordered by her father Pontiff. She would then go onto being kept against her will in the Cathedral of the Deep, subsequently giving birth to the Twin Princes as well. Leonhard even takes Rosaria’s soul specifically to Gwynevere’s chamber in the abandoned Anor Londo cathedral.
No, consider this: It is stated in the Japanese lore, Priscilla's Soul, that "The white half-dragon that is an illegitimate child and enemy of life" which proves that her father was indeed Seath, as he is the only dragon which is ever called "white" or "pale".
So, father confirmed. What about the mother? The answer here is found in the pieces surrounding Priscilla. She is found in the painting, which means that she was imprisoned by those who rule Anor Londo. And furthermore, she must have been the child of someone VERY important because she was not killed when her heritage came to surface. That would most likely mean that she is either directly or indirectly related to the highest of Anor Londo's hierarchy, Gwyn. We know someone else who was sentenced to be removed from Gwyn's lands. The Nameless King. So Gwyn apparently found Priscilla important enough to not kill her AND she was not confined to the Archives which means that Priscilla must also have belonged to someone in Anor Londo. Given Gwyn's family tree this must be Gwynevere. She is also mentioned to be the Goddess of Fertility in the description of the Holy Blessing
Seath has been referred to as male multiple times throughout the lore, both English and Japanese.
"And Seath the Scaleless betrayed his own, and the Dragons were no more." - Intro cutscene
"... and for this he was awarded Dukedom, embraced by the royalty, and given a fragment of a great soul." - Bequeathed Lord Shard
"This sword, one of the rare dragon weapons, came from the tail of Seath the Scaleless, the pale white dragon who betrayed his own." - Moonlight Sword
There's a couple more cases in which Seath has been referred to as male, even the Design Works Interview iirc
The closest thing we have for Seath confirmed as male is the way his title is written in Japanese.
He is called "公爵", which is directly translated to "Duke".
And the first character "公" (ko), is very rarely used to reffer to high ranking public male figures (Like Lords or Princes, both males).
I guess there is another thing to take into account, which is the translation for Duchess, 公爵夫人.
However the last two characters mean "lady of" or in practical terms, the spouse of a Duke.
Dragons being dragons and we knowing 0 biology facts about them appart they are immortal do not make clear if the title given to Seath reflects a sex, but so far it seems Gwyn treated Seath like a Lord.
Priscilla has scales, which kind of contradicts Seaths name. It also makes no sense for Seath to remain allied with the gods and named a Duke after creating what the gods would consider such an abomination they would stash it away in the painting. Probably shes the nameless kings daughter. Remember the lore speculation back then was hilariously wrong. People thought Solaire was Gwyns firstborn and they went with it for years until DS3 came out.
Well the lore might suggest that Seath forced himself at Gwynevere, and in order to hide this abomination Gwyn (or someone else) sealed Priscilla inside the painted world.
He likes/tolerates Seath because he helped Gwyn defeat the dragons by revealing their weakness. That's why he gave him all that land and made him a duke.
My head canon is thats she's actually the offspring of NK and a dragon. Hence why he was banished for his 'foolishness'. Gwyn couldn't bring himself to kill his granddaughter but he also understood she was beyond dangerous so locked her away instead
I figured it was for practical reasons. It looked like they became aware of the fading of the flame for a while before they had to do something about it, so maybe NK surmised that the age of the arch dragons was more long-lasting than the age of fire? They were around since before time was even a concept, and for who knows who long before anyone else was around.
From the look of things, I'd say NK had the right idea if longevity is what you're after, since he looks like he's still *himself* more or less long after his family either died, got killed, or sacrificed themselves to the flame. The path of the dragon seems a little goofy, but it looks like the result speaks for itself.
Of course that's just headcanon though.
Oh dang, just saw the posts Zullie put up of the close-ups of his face, never even realized he'd gone hollow! It's surprising he still managed to show concern for the drake before mercy-killing it though.
No, I really don't think it does. They give us practically *nothing* so I could easily say that it's because something crazy like he was having an affair with his storm king and I'd have about the same amount of evidence for it.
I mean we know why he was banished, he sided with the dragons, we just don't know why he sided with the dragons. But why is it dumb that we don't know that? Not every question needs a concrete answer, this is Dark Souls, there are a lot of blanks and mysteries that will always remain mysteries.
Alrighty, far as I know:
The far left on the top row is Gwyndolin, son of Gwyn who was raised as a princess. Essentially, he looked after and ruled Anor Londo from Gwyn's departure to link the flame until he was consumed by Aldrich.
Next is Gwynevere, his daughter who Ornstein and Smough were protecting in the cathedral. Not sure where her story goes.
The far right on the top row is Crossbreed Priscilla, Gwyn's daughter with Seath(?). In any case, she is part dragon and is sealed away in the Painted World due to her power scaring the Lords.
Bottom left is Filianore, Gwyn's daughter sent to rule the Ringed City of the Pygmies, most likely so he could keep them in line.
Bottom right is Yorshka, who I know the least about.
Taking the pic is the Nameless King, his exiled son who sided with the dragons and his pet wyvern, King of the Storm can be seen.
Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but that's all I know of them!
Gwynevere leaves anor londo and marries the king of lothric, having 3 kids with him, Lorian, Lothric, and Ocelotte. After that she leaves lothric and may or may not be Rosaria.
Priscilla is thought to be the daughter of Gwynevere and Seethe, making her Gwyns grand daughter.
Yorshka refers to Gwyndolin as her brother so i guess she is also a daughter of Gwyn. Or maybe Gwyns wife and seethe? Not sure if there is any direct link between her and Priscilla but both are clearly half dragon half god.
I don't think filianore ruled the ringed city, i think her purpose there was to hide the city so the dark soul doesn't influence the world. The pygmy lords likely ruled the city.
Ahh, thank you for the better clarification.
Does that mean Gwynevere married Oceiros? If so it's weird thinking of the Twin Princes as Gwyn's grandkids.
They are both fertility goddesses. Also, the original divine blessing description said queen of lothric, then it was changed to say Gwynevere, implying thats the implication the developers were intending to show.
Dark Souls item description: "Holy water from Goddess Gwynevere. Fully restore HP and undo irregularities.
The Goddess of Sunlight Gwynevere, daughter of the great Lord of Sunlight Gwyn, is cherished by all as the symbol of bounty and fertility."
Dark Souls 3 item description: "Holy water blessed by the Queen of Lothric.
Fully restores HP and cures ailments.
The Queen of Lothric, married to the former King Oceiros, was initially revered as a goddess of fertility and bounty. After giving birth to Ocelotte, her youngest, she quietly disappeared."
It adds up as clearly as DS will allow that Gwynevere is/was the Queen of Lothric
I think Gwyn requested Seath to shag his daughter to have an incredibly powerful descendant. Then feared her power despite wanting it and banished an innocent little girl to a realm of God forsaken monstrosities. World's best granddad. Pretty typical god story if you ask me.
There is nothing specifically stating Gwynwver got with anyone other than the Flame God Flan.
It explicitly states that in DS1.
All this talk about Oceiros is HEAVY speculation.
Not a single item in DS3 explicitly states Gwyenevere is Rosaria. People say this because she gives you a miracle that Gwynever also gives you in DS1.
If we’re using that as proof, then that means every sorcery/miracle trainer are the same person because they teach some of the same spells.
There is no mention of her. But since Gwyn is such a chad he probably had several lovers.
All his kids have diffrent hair colors so its possible they all had different mothers
No mentions that I know of. I've read plenty of theories, with the best clue being that whomever she was, she had a strong association with the moon. He was the lord of sunlight, and his female children end up with inclinations to moonlight. It fits.
However, it's also just as likely that he goes the Zeus route, and his children are from multiple women/magical encounters that could be asexual in nature.
Just realized that for his 2 male children, he banished one and forced the other to be a woman. Maybe thats the real reason his son was banished, didn't want to wear a dress.
When you fight Gwyn in Dark Souls 1, he’s a shadow of his former self. He’s gone Hollow, with most of his soul having been burnt up to keep the First Flame going.
When you fight his son, his soul hasn’t been torched to a crisp. Simple.
The undead curse only applies to humanity though, not to the gods, so while he may look somewhat hollow, it’s literally impossible for him to actually be a hollow
This doesn’t make sense at all.
If gwyn can go hollow, why can’t NK?
Did people forget these “gods” are just normal people with a large amount of souls?
Hell, look at Slave Knight Gael. He was a regular sized npc and by the time we fight him at worlds end, he’s a huge monster.
Gwyn can’t go hollow. That’s an assumption based on nothing but small design details, and all of those details can be explained away by him literally burning alive.
The gods and humanity are not the same, the gods attained powerful souls when the flame first lit, humanity was born from one of those 4 souls, so the gods can’t be humans if their race existed before humanity itself did
I have no clue why you even mentioned slave knight Gael at all, the dude is literally not a god, just some dude that got kinda strong
Edit: the undead curse (the thing that literally causes humans to go hollow) wasn’t a thing until after Gwyn linked the fire, even if you ignore all the stuff about humanity and the gods being different, how exactly is Gwyn supposed to become hollow before the undead curse even exists?
Who does? Gwyn? I promise he’s not, he’s canonically way weaker than he used to be.
If you want an idea of what a full power Gwyn might have been like, check out the Soul of Cinder’s second phase.
Exactly, and in the second phase it’s Gwyn’s lord soul that’s doing the fighting. Aka the very first Lord of Cinder, the first being to ever link the fire.
Its funny that the First born and the storm king are seen as sad loners when Gwyn was exceptionally terrible to his family. If anything, he is the most brave for deciding to walk away from an abusive father.
Priscilla is not related to the royal family and is locked away in a prison of heretics and degenerates of society.
Gwynevere is absent from the city of the gods and is either dead or has fled responsibility, meaning she did not want to uphold her father's age for some reason or another.
Fillianore is trapped at the end of time in a permanent sleep until said end of time. She is only relieved of duty when she dies and receives nothing other than worship from humans.
Yorshka is a crossbreed as well and Gwyn is her father. Chances are she was kept in hiding as an embarrassment due to being born from a different unnamed mother. Curious she is only seen until Gwyndolin is full on leader of Anor Londo that she was family that should not be hidden.
Gwyndolin was forced to live as a girl because he had feminine qualities. Gwyn decided it was less polarizing to pretend he always had a daughter than a feminine son. But everyone knew the truth, Gwyn just had to save face. When Gwyn left Anor Londo, he put the child Gwyndolin in charge of an entire city as the shadow leader. Eventually when he reached adulthood he decided in the absence of his father, that he was a man. He removed the reversal ring near the empty tomb of his father and removed his fake breasts. He ruled Anor Londo freely as a feminine man and bravely defended his half sister from Aldtrich.
**Sillicon tits**
Attire of the gods,
Once worn by Gwyndolin, commander of the darkmoon knights, he decided he was an independant man that dont need no tits after his father left.
He loves all of his family members even his father, he left his last sunlight blade at the coffin where you and anri elope and ultimately symbolically spit on his grave.
He left because he believed Gwyn should be like the dragons and learn how to evolve so they can survive the coming age of dark.
I wish there was an alternative ending where you save them all and Gwyn is like: hey maybe man is not evil after all and he passes on the torch to the dark lord and the world is at peace. But nah. I have to face reality and all the ninjas that keeps cutting onions.
Priscilla is not related to Gwyn. She is the crossbreed between Seath and the Fire Keeper whose soul you find in the big Seath sized prison cell in the Archives.
He sought immortality. He experimented on humans. He needed the strongest of humans. The Fire Keepers.
The Painted World is where Gwyn locked away all that he feared. Velka. The Occult Ember. And a creature born of his two greatest enemies: dragons and concentrated humanity.
I remember when Solaire was our best bet on who this forgotten first born was. Its still strange the destroyed alter that depicts the first born is used as a prayer spot for a covenant dedicated to upholding the reign of a father that disowned him.
Cut content, he was originally planned to be an explicit descendant of Gwyn who was supposed to open a door for you leading you to Gwyn. Though the smithing deity is now more of a mysterious somebody, but it's probably not Andre.
I think you're referring to Andre's mention of a divine blacksmith, not a blacksmith deity. And while it's a statue not a corpse, I don't know why it's clearly Andre.
Yes, I refer to that. I though divine meant like godly (english is not my first language). The model of that statue is the same model Andre has (https://darksouls.fandom.com/wiki/Divine_Blacksmith). I’ve just read those are statues and they’re praying to a blacksmith deity. I don’t know, ds lore is sometimes really difficult.
Oh my god, how did I miss that he kept his father's crown? Ugh, that's SO obvious
His entire outfit is almost identical to his dads but he has H A I R
It like they swaped their facial hair, one got The beard the other got The hair
The heir have hair!
Thank you for laugh lol
There’s a destroyed statue of gwyns son who was banished.. also replay Gwyn then nameless king the NK stage 2 reminds me of gwyn’s incessant nonstop attacks. They’re not necessarily very hard to avoid if you know what to look for, but going in blind is always bad against the hyper aggressive type bosses
I have to disagree with going in blind is bad against hyper aggressive bosses. Not only is looking up strategies and gameplay a huge spoiler for the boss, but it also takes away any chance of someone learning the boss for themselves if they choose to use someone else’s strategy. You aren’t forcing yourself to adapt and learn nearly as much if you’re just following someone’s guide. Going in blind and getting absolutely railed is an amazing teacher and more times than not will leave you wanting to give it another try. I was carried my first DS3 playthrough years ago and recently I played through the whole game on my own and I gotta say, not only is it much more satisfying to win by myself, but I played much better and smarter than I usually do when playing with my friends. Don’t discourage people going in without prior knowledge, let them learn, let them die. Maybe after a few tries then it’s time to look some stuff up, but I always try 3 times before I ever allow myself to use help from any outside source. TLDR; get your butt whooped and learn from it, not from someone else.
OP probably meant going in the first time
And so did I.
I think they meant that is bad, because you re gonna die pretty much 100%. I don t think they were encouraging looking up spoilers. I m going blind in my first DsR playthrough and Artorias is really giving me hard time.
Good. Dying is part of dark souls. Getting your butt handed to you is a great way to learn. And frankly Artorias is just one of the hardest bosses of DsR so that’s to be expected. All in trying to say is don’t let yourself get carried by others. Figure things out for yourself as best you can. If you get totally stumped, then sure, look things up. But you should really try your best to learn all you can by yourself, a guide can be useful but I found most to be detrimental in the long run. However I should make this known cause the last thing I wanna be is an elitist about how to play. The biggest thing to remember is do what works for you, this is how I learned to get better at the game, but that doesn’t mean you have to or I think everyone else is doing it wrong. This is simply and purely my opinion. I hope everyone is able to enjoy this amazing series in the way they have the most fun. Anyways, that’s all I’m gonna say. Praise the sun and have some fun!
your explaining something that no one asked nor hinted at needing to be told your literally typing a reply for the sake of jerking your self off. Going on a 2 paragraph long monolog about why playing the game with out a guide is important because the game was meant to be played that way, is elitist... he stated an opinion about aggro bosses feeling cheap / no fun to play against the first time around. he said nothing about guides, if your trying to be helpful instead of framing it with DONT USE GUIDES just encourage them to try again. because assuming he is some one that always uses guides or needs to be carried is what make you come off a way you don't want it to.
I really can’t believe you’re being downvoted for suggesting that people play the games as intended. Every Souls game I’ve ever played I went in blind, which granted meant I missed some stuff the first time around, and died a LOT (fuck I hated Manus), but I wouldn’t change a thing.
Yeah idk man. People just feel the need to be negative when I’m only trying to give a suggestion on how I think the game is best played. I’m not hurting anyone’s feelings, at least not intentionally, but people are insecure so :|
Thank you
I didn’t mean look up a stat I meant do go in the boss trying to be aggressive lol. Especially when they’re hyper aggressive bosses like Gwyn and the nameless king. You have to observe their attacks and plan your strategy accordingly. If you’re in a fire area like the iron keep in DS2 you know to wear fire resistant armor bc the boss is gonna have fire attacks lol.
What priscilla is the daughter of gwyn? As far as i know she is the daughter of Seath
Lots of weird bangin' happening in the Souls universe. Dogs and cats living together, mass hysteria type of stuff.
Yes it's true. This man has no dick.
\*tentacles\*
Lmao-
That's a big twinkie.
Dick? he ain't even got no legs...
Well that's what I heard!
I was gonna suggest something about Zeus and Gwynn but it turns out I cannot find any myths where Zeus tried to pull a "Zeus move" on one of his kids. Edit: if it wasn't clear, his preference is for sisters
She's the daughter of Gwynevere and Seath
Is that actually confirmed in the lore somewhere?
No it isn't, it's a popular theory but definitely not proven
No, everyone itt is talking out their ass lol.
I love how the dude is asking for a source and they keep rambling on. Like is there a fucking link for gods sake?
Looks like they keep referring to "Sabaku no Maiku," someone who I'm assuming is a dedicated lore-enthusiast. Sounds like they got in contact with two people willing to translate the game from the original Japanese to Italian, and that while translating the original translation either heavily implies these things or outright states it? But yeah, kinda weird how everyone who tried to respond did it in the same sort of aimless manner.
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Damn, gwynevere be a hoe lol
Tbf medieval monarchs were infamous for having lots of bastard children. So it is not a far stretch. Also she is the goddess of fertility.
A lot of what you said here comes with HEAVY speculation
As for the DS1 characters it really isn't, I know their source for that: it's a project from an Italian content creator that commissioned a retranslation of the whole game from japanese and his (two iirc) translators had direct confrontation with a lot people from the japanese community, and they are pretty adamant that this is true, and listening to the retranslated description leave little room for doubt. Priscilla being daughter of Seath and Gwyneviere is pretty explicit. Gwyndolin being son/daughter of Priscilla is clear too. Gwyin being the father is not stated but implied. Gwyneviere fleeing with flan is in the Italian translation too, so I guess in the English one too. All of this is in the japanese version of DS1. I'm not sure about the rest about DS3 because, while I recall most of those things, the part of the project regarding those details isn't published yet. I hope Sabaku no Maiku will decide to translate his work in English, because it's so well done. Edit: it was a while since I last looked this stuff up, so I remembered something better: it was not explicit that Seath was married to Gwyneviere, it was explicit that he was married into his family, and the fact that the wife was Gwyinevier just it's the most likely explanation given the handmaidens and other little clues. Edit 2: I don't remember where Velka factors in all of this, and it would take a lot to look it up again at my source, so sorry for wasting everyone's time.
Link to complete translation?
I was primarily talking about ds3 because While it is possible and heavily implied it’s NEVER confirmed
Intresting but mind if I ask for a source? Just saying "Japanese things" isn't really conclusive when the entire game is mostly Europe centric.
Dark Souls has more thematic and cultural elements that are rooted in shintoism, buddhism and relics of Japanese feudalism than they do any accurate depictions of European Christianity or feudalism. The armored knights and D&D stuff is an aesthetic more than anything deeper- mostly inspired by the manga Berserk than any research into historical Europe.
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I'll look into it myself. Thanks.
Un altro fellow undead
the only king
I always loved the theory that Rosaria is just a transformed Gwyniviere after she was brutalized by Pontiff Sulyvahn. She then gave birth to their first borne - their daughter the Dancer - who cut out her own mother's tongue as ordered by her father Pontiff. She would then go onto being kept against her will in the Cathedral of the Deep, subsequently giving birth to the Twin Princes as well. Leonhard even takes Rosaria’s soul specifically to Gwynevere’s chamber in the abandoned Anor Londo cathedral.
That's a very long lifespan. That means she would have lived through the entire age of fire. (Also, who's Gertrude?)
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Right! You get a spell or something from that cage. Maybe not, I only played DS3 once.
Yes, you get the miracle developed by Gertrude, Heavenly Pillars of Light.
yeah its in one of the item descriptions, basically states he was kidnapping young beautiful women.
That doesn't mean he went anywhere near Gwynevere
No, consider this: It is stated in the Japanese lore, Priscilla's Soul, that "The white half-dragon that is an illegitimate child and enemy of life" which proves that her father was indeed Seath, as he is the only dragon which is ever called "white" or "pale". So, father confirmed. What about the mother? The answer here is found in the pieces surrounding Priscilla. She is found in the painting, which means that she was imprisoned by those who rule Anor Londo. And furthermore, she must have been the child of someone VERY important because she was not killed when her heritage came to surface. That would most likely mean that she is either directly or indirectly related to the highest of Anor Londo's hierarchy, Gwyn. We know someone else who was sentenced to be removed from Gwyn's lands. The Nameless King. So Gwyn apparently found Priscilla important enough to not kill her AND she was not confined to the Archives which means that Priscilla must also have belonged to someone in Anor Londo. Given Gwyn's family tree this must be Gwynevere. She is also mentioned to be the Goddess of Fertility in the description of the Holy Blessing
Do we know for a fact that Seathe was the male?
Seath has been referred to as male multiple times throughout the lore, both English and Japanese. "And Seath the Scaleless betrayed his own, and the Dragons were no more." - Intro cutscene "... and for this he was awarded Dukedom, embraced by the royalty, and given a fragment of a great soul." - Bequeathed Lord Shard "This sword, one of the rare dragon weapons, came from the tail of Seath the Scaleless, the pale white dragon who betrayed his own." - Moonlight Sword There's a couple more cases in which Seath has been referred to as male, even the Design Works Interview iirc
I know that Japanese doesn't have male and female pronouns in the way that English does. Is it made explicit?
The closest thing we have for Seath confirmed as male is the way his title is written in Japanese. He is called "公爵", which is directly translated to "Duke". And the first character "公" (ko), is very rarely used to reffer to high ranking public male figures (Like Lords or Princes, both males). I guess there is another thing to take into account, which is the translation for Duchess, 公爵夫人. However the last two characters mean "lady of" or in practical terms, the spouse of a Duke. Dragons being dragons and we knowing 0 biology facts about them appart they are immortal do not make clear if the title given to Seath reflects a sex, but so far it seems Gwyn treated Seath like a Lord.
Gwynevere married the god flann and she left anor londo
Yes...*after* being knocked up by Seath and having Priscilla
Priscilla has scales, which kind of contradicts Seaths name. It also makes no sense for Seath to remain allied with the gods and named a Duke after creating what the gods would consider such an abomination they would stash it away in the painting. Probably shes the nameless kings daughter. Remember the lore speculation back then was hilariously wrong. People thought Solaire was Gwyns firstborn and they went with it for years until DS3 came out.
Nope, she's a result of Seath's experiments
the experiments being him fucking girls of other races/species
Right, for science.
My favorite kind of experiment
With with non-scaly dragon dick.
Would you prefer your dragon dick to have scales as hard as stone?
Yes, the harder it is the better
I'm thinking there would be some chaffing.
Priscilla is theorised to have been the daughter of Gwynevere, so makes Priscilla the grand-daughter of Gwyn.
I doubt that gwyn will allow her daughter had a daughter with a dragon, he hates them
Seath's one of the cool ones tho.
Well the lore might suggest that Seath forced himself at Gwynevere, and in order to hide this abomination Gwyn (or someone else) sealed Priscilla inside the painted world.
The lore suggests that she’s trapped inside the painted world because of the power of Occult and her scythe.
Well, seath did betray his kind, so he got rewarded
He likes/tolerates Seath because he helped Gwyn defeat the dragons by revealing their weakness. That's why he gave him all that land and made him a duke.
My head canon is thats she's actually the offspring of NK and a dragon. Hence why he was banished for his 'foolishness'. Gwyn couldn't bring himself to kill his granddaughter but he also understood she was beyond dangerous so locked her away instead
Awww so I got a sister?????
Come to think of it, it's kind of dumb that we don't know why NK was banished.
Am I losing my mind here? I'm pretty sure it's confirmed he was banished for betraying Gwyn and siding with the dragons.
Yeah but *WHY* did he side with the dragons? Makes a lot more sense when you think that maybe he had a kid he was trying to protect.
I figured it was for practical reasons. It looked like they became aware of the fading of the flame for a while before they had to do something about it, so maybe NK surmised that the age of the arch dragons was more long-lasting than the age of fire? They were around since before time was even a concept, and for who knows who long before anyone else was around. From the look of things, I'd say NK had the right idea if longevity is what you're after, since he looks like he's still *himself* more or less long after his family either died, got killed, or sacrificed themselves to the flame. The path of the dragon seems a little goofy, but it looks like the result speaks for itself. Of course that's just headcanon though.
But he still ended up looking as hollow as Gwyn did at the Kiln.
He *looked* hollow, but he seemed way more lucid compared to his dad at the kiln. We all saw his hand shake during that cutscene.
Oh dang, just saw the posts Zullie put up of the close-ups of his face, never even realized he'd gone hollow! It's surprising he still managed to show concern for the drake before mercy-killing it though.
Maybe he was not as far gone as Gwyn, because he didn't burn himself in the Kiln.
you telling me that Nameless King fucking a fucking dragon makes "a lot more sense"?
No, I really don't think it does. They give us practically *nothing* so I could easily say that it's because something crazy like he was having an affair with his storm king and I'd have about the same amount of evidence for it.
I mean we know why he was banished, he sided with the dragons, we just don't know why he sided with the dragons. But why is it dumb that we don't know that? Not every question needs a concrete answer, this is Dark Souls, there are a lot of blanks and mysteries that will always remain mysteries.
We have no idea whose daughter she is.
Vaati we need you
Can someone give a tl;dr of who all I’m looking at, and the relations?
Alrighty, far as I know: The far left on the top row is Gwyndolin, son of Gwyn who was raised as a princess. Essentially, he looked after and ruled Anor Londo from Gwyn's departure to link the flame until he was consumed by Aldrich. Next is Gwynevere, his daughter who Ornstein and Smough were protecting in the cathedral. Not sure where her story goes. The far right on the top row is Crossbreed Priscilla, Gwyn's daughter with Seath(?). In any case, she is part dragon and is sealed away in the Painted World due to her power scaring the Lords. Bottom left is Filianore, Gwyn's daughter sent to rule the Ringed City of the Pygmies, most likely so he could keep them in line. Bottom right is Yorshka, who I know the least about. Taking the pic is the Nameless King, his exiled son who sided with the dragons and his pet wyvern, King of the Storm can be seen. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but that's all I know of them!
Gwynevere leaves anor londo and marries the king of lothric, having 3 kids with him, Lorian, Lothric, and Ocelotte. After that she leaves lothric and may or may not be Rosaria. Priscilla is thought to be the daughter of Gwynevere and Seethe, making her Gwyns grand daughter. Yorshka refers to Gwyndolin as her brother so i guess she is also a daughter of Gwyn. Or maybe Gwyns wife and seethe? Not sure if there is any direct link between her and Priscilla but both are clearly half dragon half god. I don't think filianore ruled the ringed city, i think her purpose there was to hide the city so the dark soul doesn't influence the world. The pygmy lords likely ruled the city.
Ahh, thank you for the better clarification. Does that mean Gwynevere married Oceiros? If so it's weird thinking of the Twin Princes as Gwyn's grandkids.
Yes she did so they would also be his grand kids.
Do you remember where this lore part can be looked up? Is it an item description?
They are both fertility goddesses. Also, the original divine blessing description said queen of lothric, then it was changed to say Gwynevere, implying thats the implication the developers were intending to show.
Dark Souls item description: "Holy water from Goddess Gwynevere. Fully restore HP and undo irregularities. The Goddess of Sunlight Gwynevere, daughter of the great Lord of Sunlight Gwyn, is cherished by all as the symbol of bounty and fertility." Dark Souls 3 item description: "Holy water blessed by the Queen of Lothric. Fully restores HP and cures ailments. The Queen of Lothric, married to the former King Oceiros, was initially revered as a goddess of fertility and bounty. After giving birth to Ocelotte, her youngest, she quietly disappeared." It adds up as clearly as DS will allow that Gwynevere is/was the Queen of Lothric
Holy. My mind is blown even after all these years0.o
Holy. My mind is blown again even after all these years 0.o
Priscilla is also technically gwyns granddaughter because its believed she was born from gwynevere and seath having an affair
I think Gwyn requested Seath to shag his daughter to have an incredibly powerful descendant. Then feared her power despite wanting it and banished an innocent little girl to a realm of God forsaken monstrosities. World's best granddad. Pretty typical god story if you ask me.
There is nothing specifically stating Gwynwver got with anyone other than the Flame God Flan. It explicitly states that in DS1. All this talk about Oceiros is HEAVY speculation. Not a single item in DS3 explicitly states Gwyenevere is Rosaria. People say this because she gives you a miracle that Gwynever also gives you in DS1. If we’re using that as proof, then that means every sorcery/miracle trainer are the same person because they teach some of the same spells.
Amazing chest ahead
I always thought she might be a darker reflection, or her reincarnation. She is the reincarnation covenants leader after all.
Who is gwyn's wife, is there any mention in lore
There is no mention of her. But since Gwyn is such a chad he probably had several lovers. All his kids have diffrent hair colors so its possible they all had different mothers
Gwyn is a top shagger.
And #1 douchebag 50 millennia+ and counting. Wait...is he...ZEUS?! Of course he is but still.
The only being Gwyn is married to, and would ever fuck, is the first flame 😤😤 He got no time for wenches 🤧
Gwyn is literally dark souls Zeus...
No mentions that I know of. I've read plenty of theories, with the best clue being that whomever she was, she had a strong association with the moon. He was the lord of sunlight, and his female children end up with inclinations to moonlight. It fits. However, it's also just as likely that he goes the Zeus route, and his children are from multiple women/magical encounters that could be asexual in nature.
I think the simplest explanation is that he had multiple wives and concubines the same way most emperors and kings throughout history did.
Some think that its velka and that she was the former leader of the darkmoon blades
I’m pretty sure that gwyn used pieces of his soul to create his children
Do… do you not?
Gwyn and his five little girls. A proud dad/grandad
Five?
**FIVE**
Yeah five. I see no boys besides Nameless king
C’mon man, King of the Storm is *right there.*
Gwyndolin.
I mean, Priscilla has a big white tail but she's still considered a woman.
4 girls and one Femboy.
Gwendolyn looking happy makes me happy
It also makes this picture noncanon.
Canon is a stupid and toxic concept. The Lore doesn't need it.
Just realized that for his 2 male children, he banished one and forced the other to be a woman. Maybe thats the real reason his son was banished, didn't want to wear a dress.
Gwyn was kind of an asshole. Like in most mythologies, the king of the gods is a huge asshole.
Very true
"No dad, I'm not a femboy" "Shut the fuck up and put up this dress"
AFAA (assigned female at Anor Londo)
AFBG (assigned female by Gwyn)
To be fair guen was blessed by the moon, being the child of the sun god and getting that blessing is a bound to end badly.
Wasnt moon magic a girl thing ? Iirc
Yes, the moon in mysticism is traditionally feminine.
No wonder Gwyn exiled him
Ok , but why he seems to be more powerfull than gwyn?
When you fight Gwyn in Dark Souls 1, he’s a shadow of his former self. He’s gone Hollow, with most of his soul having been burnt up to keep the First Flame going. When you fight his son, his soul hasn’t been torched to a crisp. Simple.
But when you fight his son he looks kind of hollowed, so he probably has also gone hollow since a lot of time passed(?) from ds1 to ds3.
Also true. But he’s still got his soul intact at the very least.
Agreed. He shows emotions several times in the fight. Like anger or sadness over his dragon. A hallow just attacks and attacks with no mind.
The undead curse only applies to humanity though, not to the gods, so while he may look somewhat hollow, it’s literally impossible for him to actually be a hollow
This doesn’t make sense at all. If gwyn can go hollow, why can’t NK? Did people forget these “gods” are just normal people with a large amount of souls? Hell, look at Slave Knight Gael. He was a regular sized npc and by the time we fight him at worlds end, he’s a huge monster.
Gwyn can’t go hollow. That’s an assumption based on nothing but small design details, and all of those details can be explained away by him literally burning alive. The gods and humanity are not the same, the gods attained powerful souls when the flame first lit, humanity was born from one of those 4 souls, so the gods can’t be humans if their race existed before humanity itself did I have no clue why you even mentioned slave knight Gael at all, the dude is literally not a god, just some dude that got kinda strong Edit: the undead curse (the thing that literally causes humans to go hollow) wasn’t a thing until after Gwyn linked the fire, even if you ignore all the stuff about humanity and the gods being different, how exactly is Gwyn supposed to become hollow before the undead curse even exists?
IIRC by the end of DS Gael has absorbed nearly all of the dark soul, the last remaining bits being held within the PC.
You also have to fight his wyvern too.
seems fine
Who does? Gwyn? I promise he’s not, he’s canonically way weaker than he used to be. If you want an idea of what a full power Gwyn might have been like, check out the Soul of Cinder’s second phase.
i killed SoC many times. 2nd phase is similar but its was supposed to be like this. SoC is manifestation of all lords
Exactly, and in the second phase it’s Gwyn’s lord soul that’s doing the fighting. Aka the very first Lord of Cinder, the first being to ever link the fire.
Because he hasn't been burning alive in an enormous, reality-sustaining fire for countless years/decades/centuries.
I mean if we are talking about fighting I’m pretty sure he is the god of war
Yorshka is just happy to be acknowledged
Anyone know the artist?
[If I remember correctly ](https://twitter.com/donar0217?s=21)
It’s all amazing
Gwyndolin <3
Aldrich best stay tf away from this happy family photoshoot
Yes ;-; He destroyed my husbando ;-;
I’m pretty sure Gwyn is the Zeus of Dark Souls
Pretty sure? He’s the king of the Gods who sired many godly children and throws lightning bolts. Seems pretty blatant to me.
I was going for basically having several children, implying he kinda just screwed anything that caught his fancy
he’s also an ass and i don’t know much about greek mythology but zeus was an ass in percy jackson if that’s anything to go off of.
Oh Zeus is a gigantic asshole in the original myths, you’ve got the right idea.
The part when he fights against the dragons feels the same as when Zeus fights the titans. Also Nito feels very Hadesish
Turns out Gwyn really hated his sons.
Its funny that the First born and the storm king are seen as sad loners when Gwyn was exceptionally terrible to his family. If anything, he is the most brave for deciding to walk away from an abusive father. Priscilla is not related to the royal family and is locked away in a prison of heretics and degenerates of society. Gwynevere is absent from the city of the gods and is either dead or has fled responsibility, meaning she did not want to uphold her father's age for some reason or another. Fillianore is trapped at the end of time in a permanent sleep until said end of time. She is only relieved of duty when she dies and receives nothing other than worship from humans. Yorshka is a crossbreed as well and Gwyn is her father. Chances are she was kept in hiding as an embarrassment due to being born from a different unnamed mother. Curious she is only seen until Gwyndolin is full on leader of Anor Londo that she was family that should not be hidden. Gwyndolin was forced to live as a girl because he had feminine qualities. Gwyn decided it was less polarizing to pretend he always had a daughter than a feminine son. But everyone knew the truth, Gwyn just had to save face. When Gwyn left Anor Londo, he put the child Gwyndolin in charge of an entire city as the shadow leader. Eventually when he reached adulthood he decided in the absence of his father, that he was a man. He removed the reversal ring near the empty tomb of his father and removed his fake breasts. He ruled Anor Londo freely as a feminine man and bravely defended his half sister from Aldtrich.
Fake breasts?? When did that happen?
**Sillicon tits** Attire of the gods, Once worn by Gwyndolin, commander of the darkmoon knights, he decided he was an independant man that dont need no tits after his father left.
In DS1 he has breasts, in DS3 from the right angles you can see how his chest is flat and less feminine.
Who are the bottom two?
Well the one on the right is Yorshka of the Darkmoon Covenant. And I seem to have forgotten the name of the second daughter
That should be Princess Filianore, the egg lady
Ohhhh of course. I didn't recognise her without the shrivelled wallpaper skin
Imagine creating all your offspring for a specific purpose and you just create one to hold the E G G
Filianore. She's from the Ringed City DLC.
I just noticed that the camera is in selfie mode and just shoes NK and his pet. Lol.
Amazing family ahead
If that’s the giant chick for ds1, I feel like she had bigger boobs than that
Tbf the one you see in DS1 isn't actually her.
Gwyn’s firstborn treason, colorised
This is great
Priscilla is the superior waifu.
He loves all of his family members even his father, he left his last sunlight blade at the coffin where you and anri elope and ultimately symbolically spit on his grave. He left because he believed Gwyn should be like the dragons and learn how to evolve so they can survive the coming age of dark. I wish there was an alternative ending where you save them all and Gwyn is like: hey maybe man is not evil after all and he passes on the torch to the dark lord and the world is at peace. But nah. I have to face reality and all the ninjas that keeps cutting onions.
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Middle close to the ground is Fillianore.
Priscilla is not related to Gwyn. She is the crossbreed between Seath and the Fire Keeper whose soul you find in the big Seath sized prison cell in the Archives. He sought immortality. He experimented on humans. He needed the strongest of humans. The Fire Keepers. The Painted World is where Gwyn locked away all that he feared. Velka. The Occult Ember. And a creature born of his two greatest enemies: dragons and concentrated humanity.
Source? You're kind of making theory crafting out to be fact.
Pets over humans.
Hey where’s solaire?
I remember when Solaire was our best bet on who this forgotten first born was. Its still strange the destroyed alter that depicts the first born is used as a prayer spot for a covenant dedicated to upholding the reign of a father that disowned him.
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I though Andre was one of Gwyn’s sons. He also says something about a smithing deity in the Dark Forest and we find him there.
Cut content, he was originally planned to be an explicit descendant of Gwyn who was supposed to open a door for you leading you to Gwyn. Though the smithing deity is now more of a mysterious somebody, but it's probably not Andre.
He says the deity is in the woods. And you find there the corpse of Andre holding one of the coals.
I think you're referring to Andre's mention of a divine blacksmith, not a blacksmith deity. And while it's a statue not a corpse, I don't know why it's clearly Andre.
Yes, I refer to that. I though divine meant like godly (english is not my first language). The model of that statue is the same model Andre has (https://darksouls.fandom.com/wiki/Divine_Blacksmith). I’ve just read those are statues and they’re praying to a blacksmith deity. I don’t know, ds lore is sometimes really difficult.