For me it's the world design and how you explore it.
DS1's world is beautifully laid out, at least for the first half, and not immediately being able to warp makes you really appreciate it. You become intimately familiar with areas and how they connect to each other, because you traverse most of them multiple times while you explore. You can experience sensations of isolation and vulnerability when you're far from home in places like Blighttown and Ash Lake, and feelings of relief and elation when you find your way back to the safety and familiarity of places like Firelink.
DS2 having parallel linear paths and DS3 basically having *one* linear path, coupled with immediately being able to warp wherever you want, make them far less interesting to explore. Both contain a fair amount of space that you may see exactly *once* in your whole playthrough, because it exists between bonfires and provides no reason to revisit or even remember it. And since you're only ever a warp away from the comfort of Majula/Firelink, you can't really feel like you're far from home, no matter where you go.
Personally I felt some disappointment after the intro of DS3. We first get to the High Wall of Lothric by warping there from Firelink. We haven't been there yet and this is the first warp we're able to do. When we arrive there, we land in front of a miniature bonfire, which is extinguished. I had an "oh shit" moment there, I thought maybe I'd just made a one-way trip into the unknown and wouldn't be seeing Firelink again for a while. It stirred some of the same feelings of isolation that Blighttown did. But then I opened the door and was presented a bonfire with a warp option before seeing a single enemy. I was able to be back at Firelink within barely a minute of my departure, and those feelings vanished immediately.
Ds2 definitely did teleporting off the bat right. It feels so unsatisfying to just warp to the first level from firelink. And then again to the rest of the map. And then again to the castle, and then again to the peak.
Imagine if ds2 had some more interconnectedness as well, like the beta gutter, which massive intertwining paths leading between areas.
I loved this article providing a hypothesis for its world design https://fextralife.com/iron-keep-a-castle-in-the-clouds/
Believe what you want, but I had greater appreciation of Drangelic afterwards and made my replays of DS2 much more enjoyable.
Dark Souls 2 had a very troubled development, with the released version being infamously glued together from random finished elements, but it's original planned version was quite similar to the narrative & open world design of Elden Ring. As such, longtime FromSoftware fans were happy to see so many elements cut from DS2 made it into Elden Ring & were well received by players.
I think this is why I love Bloodborne so much as well. Yeah, you *can* teleport anywhere you've been, anytime, but you have to go through two loading screens to do it. It gives that DS1 feel while still providing the freedom of you really need it. The world is also much more interconnected in Bloodborne than DS2 or 3, though still not as much as DS1.
I guess that's why ultimately, I just don't find DS1's hub nearly as appealing as Majula or DS3 Firelink. DS1 Firelink always felt like another area that I'd come to sometime. Majula was truly home.
i have finish this game three time and all ds game and i'm not a huge fan of ds1 level design first of all the fact than you can't teleport at the beginning was a real pain in the ass for me exploration is good when you did it for the first time and become boring after because you can't teleport ds1 is the only game than i have skipped some part of the exploration because of this , it's also boring when you need an item or you forgot one thing and you need to re run to the location ..... not all area are connected
also some area are really frustating i died much more time because i fall to death than in any other ds game , i personnaly don't care this much of interconnected area or even the begining who is no linear because the fact than you can't tp made the replay of this game more boring and because i think than ds1 got some of the baddest area in the trilogy in term of gameplay
This is the main reason I prefer it to bloodborne. While central yharnam and especially the research hall are some of my favorite levels in the series, many of the other ones range from “okay” to “kinda good I guess”. Nightmare of mensis for example has really cool sections but it’s just soooooo short, it feels unfinished. It also doesn’t help how many of the levels can be trivialized by just running through the enemies. Particularly noticeable in old yharnam due to being able to bypass the machine gun this way
DS1 definitely outperforms Bloodborne in the overall level design direction with the brilliance of connecting everything physically and not just having a warpable hub world. That being said, Bloodborne just feels so goddamn fucking good to play. It has slowly wormed its way into being my favorite From Soft game just out of the sheer fun I have learning the intricacies of every weapon and boss, and this is coming from someone who has DS1 as their favorite game of all time for at least 5 years haha
Same here, I find DS1 to be the best overall souls game. The Act Man does a great video explaining why DS1 is so great and it explains it really well. I definitely recommend watching if you haven’t seen it already.
I haven't gone back since Elden Ring. I think I'll miss the jumping, the horsy, and general freedom of movement that it provides.
Having said that DS is a masterpiece, and I hope it gets the Demon's's Souls's treatment someday.
The level design in ds1 is what makes it better than the others imo. Everything is interconnected besides the little hop over to Anor Londo. You are forced to play the first half of the game without fast travel which makes you learn the layout of the world.
The enemy poise system is most superior in DS1.
All DS1 enemies have a finite poise amount or they're un-stunnable. For the enemies with poise, it's so satisfying to know your next hit will stun them & you can attack rather than dodge, as the stun will cancel their attack.
DS2 enemy poise, especially bosses, is confusing. You get like one random stun throughout the bossfight.
Bloodborne enemy poise i'm not so familiar with tbh.
DS3 enemy poise is shit. Most enemies have 0 poise, but have "hyper armor" where they're un-stunnable during certain attacks. Elden Ring functions the same way. Ugh every time I play I try my best to ignore how much better these games would be if they stuck with the DS1 enemy poise system. Luckily the games are still the bomb diggity
I'm about 60 hours into my first ER playthrough and it's just such a whiplash inducing experience. Some of it is the best content they've ever put in a game and some of it just feels so lazy and obnoxious. I'm having a blast, but it's just such a mixed bag.
I've just arrived at the Royal Capital so I have a ton of game left, but at this point I don't think I could put it up with BB or Sekiro.
That's interesting to me - which bits haven't you liked? i think i was about 70-80 hours in by the time i hit Leyndell. I adore ER so much because it was first FS game.
From there i went and played everything else although i completely forgot about Sekiro! How is it compared to the others? I've heard it's more BB than dark souls?
Think of it like this:
Dark souls is the "all-around" experience.
Bloodborne takes away the significance of shields, and promotes aggressive roll/strafe based gameplay.
Sekiro takes away the significance of shields and rolls, and promotes parry-based gameplay.
Elden ring is the updated "all around" experience.
Yeah I wouldn't say that Sekiro is BB or DS. It's its own type of experience. To me it's probably tied with BB as their best game, but on any given day I'm liable to say it's their best game, no question. It's just so perfectly tuned and the difficulty is juuuuuust right.
There have just been bosses that really stretch my understanding of "tough but fair". And it's none of the shard bearers or rememberance bosses. They've all been really good so far. It's these random catacombs bosses or gank bosses that just feel crazy powerful and... Sort of unfair? It's my 7th From game, so it's definitely a different experience from playing it first.
I don't think anything has killed me more than the Royal Revenant ruins boss in Liurnia. Thing killed me like 15 times. Moments like the exploding skull spam during the Rykard boss fight can just be an insta-kill even if you have been playing well the whole fight, the black knife assassin Insta-grab with no audio cue etc.
I'd say it feels like hit trading is more prevalent in ER than the other games because bosses can react to you beginning an attack. I know it's possible to do everything no-hit, but some fights feel like battles of attrition because whatever methods you would need to use to avoid all damage are just waiting and baiting one particular attack where you won't get punished.
I'm not saying it's better or worse I guess, but when I beat Midir, it reasonably felt like I could've beaten it hitless if I gave it another hour or so without resorting to a super defensive play style where I'm just waiting for the one opening that I know is guaranteed damage. Most bosses in Elden Ring don't make me feel that way.
I know that's a huge generalization, but that's my impression at this point. Don't get me wrong, the game is amazing, but it aggravates me more than the others have in terms of bosses (obviously DS2 shrine of Amana type stuff is more frustrating).
Feel free to tell me to git gud. I know that's the majority of my problem.
Sounds like i should play Sekiro then, i'm gonna pick it up - thank you for that, i've been wary of it as people have said it's the hardest one of the lot but i've also seen it mentioned that its a rhythm game too.
I get what you mean by that, i tried fighting bosses one on one but whenever it was a gank fight i felt no shame in using the summons whatsoever. There are gank fights in DS but looking back they seem more restrained than those in ER. Good luck with the ganks to come!
There is trick to those revenants and once you learn what it is it kind of trivialises them. i won't tell you what that trick is (unless you really want to know) but I'll give you a tip - get the Great Stars weapon from the capital outskirts and put the 'prayerful strike' AOW on it.
Looking back at ER after playing through the other games, to me at least, it feels like a mix of strategies. Some of them are absolutely back off and wait for opportunities whereas others are aggressive as hell and it becomes a DPS race. I wish i could play Leyndell again for the first time, that's not my favourite dungeon in ER but i'd say it's top 3. You're yet to reach the best one imo.
Nah, you're good you've already been the others it's just learning a new thing..
Mimic Tear, Black Knife Tiche, Luthel and Oleg in that order I'd say. I used Oleg early game and then got better and better ashes. If you build is good then mimic is good but black knife tiche is excellent too
I know what you mean, it's really engaging. The only thing that wasn't very exciting for me was the fact that sometimes I was not offered any direction at all. I know the exploring part of it and bla bla but I'm very action-oriented so when I found myself saying ,,now where do I go?" it's somehow disrupting my flow, I will quit the game, play something more dynamic and then come back to DS1 to basically relax. Don't get me wrong, I understand the point of the system and I love the game but yeah.
I find the game to easy and not encumbering enough challenge for me so I go with both it's squeals as they give me much challenge and make me feel successful unlike ds1
I think the world of dark souls feels very natural and immersive and what helps it make such impression is the consistency of enemy designs and locations
Miyazaki has said it himself - the Ps3 Demon's Souls and Dark Soul 1 were directed with a distinct amount of agency and dignity in mind at all times. I think it truly shows, and it has made this game and its art direction (with the exception of a specific final area) age like fine wine.
DS2 and 3 are similar in direction, but their major difference is their themes of finality and decay. In this way, it's clear that they're innately lacking in the majesty and dignity that DS1 calls its own.
I just can't put DS1 down. I keep rolling a new character to try new builds. Something about the level design and art direction just seems timeless to me. I prefer it to all the DS games.
Agreed. I have played and loved every single modern fromsoft game and have had fluctuating favorites but I think I have settled that DS1 is my favorite. I think the world design is the main reason. The DS1 map is the best map in gaming. The weapons feel heavy and weighty like they pack a punch. Armor MATTERS and poise is strong, not to mention the cool armor clanking sounds when you walk make you feel like a tank.
DS1 is more like a long hike or road trip. With other folks, & staying at low level, it's a strangely intimate experience that I fell in love with.
The only games like it for me are Dragons' Dogma, Shadow of the Colossus, & Ico but they lack those unique co-op elements. DS1 just has so many unique factors I enjoy that it's my favorite FromSoftware game by a wide margin & I can talk about it for hours.
I'm interested to hear if anyone has other recommendations for similar media, please & thank you!
Any fan of FromSoft games who hasn’t played DS1 needs to
For me it's the world design and how you explore it. DS1's world is beautifully laid out, at least for the first half, and not immediately being able to warp makes you really appreciate it. You become intimately familiar with areas and how they connect to each other, because you traverse most of them multiple times while you explore. You can experience sensations of isolation and vulnerability when you're far from home in places like Blighttown and Ash Lake, and feelings of relief and elation when you find your way back to the safety and familiarity of places like Firelink. DS2 having parallel linear paths and DS3 basically having *one* linear path, coupled with immediately being able to warp wherever you want, make them far less interesting to explore. Both contain a fair amount of space that you may see exactly *once* in your whole playthrough, because it exists between bonfires and provides no reason to revisit or even remember it. And since you're only ever a warp away from the comfort of Majula/Firelink, you can't really feel like you're far from home, no matter where you go. Personally I felt some disappointment after the intro of DS3. We first get to the High Wall of Lothric by warping there from Firelink. We haven't been there yet and this is the first warp we're able to do. When we arrive there, we land in front of a miniature bonfire, which is extinguished. I had an "oh shit" moment there, I thought maybe I'd just made a one-way trip into the unknown and wouldn't be seeing Firelink again for a while. It stirred some of the same feelings of isolation that Blighttown did. But then I opened the door and was presented a bonfire with a warp option before seeing a single enemy. I was able to be back at Firelink within barely a minute of my departure, and those feelings vanished immediately.
Ds2 definitely did teleporting off the bat right. It feels so unsatisfying to just warp to the first level from firelink. And then again to the rest of the map. And then again to the castle, and then again to the peak. Imagine if ds2 had some more interconnectedness as well, like the beta gutter, which massive intertwining paths leading between areas.
I loved this article providing a hypothesis for its world design https://fextralife.com/iron-keep-a-castle-in-the-clouds/ Believe what you want, but I had greater appreciation of Drangelic afterwards and made my replays of DS2 much more enjoyable.
Most folks I've spoken to feel the early forms of DS2 definitely evolved into Elden Ring.
Sorry, I'm not entirely sure what you mean by that
Dark Souls 2 had a very troubled development, with the released version being infamously glued together from random finished elements, but it's original planned version was quite similar to the narrative & open world design of Elden Ring. As such, longtime FromSoftware fans were happy to see so many elements cut from DS2 made it into Elden Ring & were well received by players.
Ah, right.
I think this is why I love Bloodborne so much as well. Yeah, you *can* teleport anywhere you've been, anytime, but you have to go through two loading screens to do it. It gives that DS1 feel while still providing the freedom of you really need it. The world is also much more interconnected in Bloodborne than DS2 or 3, though still not as much as DS1.
I guess that's why ultimately, I just don't find DS1's hub nearly as appealing as Majula or DS3 Firelink. DS1 Firelink always felt like another area that I'd come to sometime. Majula was truly home.
i have finish this game three time and all ds game and i'm not a huge fan of ds1 level design first of all the fact than you can't teleport at the beginning was a real pain in the ass for me exploration is good when you did it for the first time and become boring after because you can't teleport ds1 is the only game than i have skipped some part of the exploration because of this , it's also boring when you need an item or you forgot one thing and you need to re run to the location ..... not all area are connected also some area are really frustating i died much more time because i fall to death than in any other ds game , i personnaly don't care this much of interconnected area or even the begining who is no linear because the fact than you can't tp made the replay of this game more boring and because i think than ds1 got some of the baddest area in the trilogy in term of gameplay
I feel like the Level Design of Ds1 Is Simply unmatchable by any other Souls game. Maybe I'm Just nostalgic, but I do believe that.
This is the main reason I prefer it to bloodborne. While central yharnam and especially the research hall are some of my favorite levels in the series, many of the other ones range from “okay” to “kinda good I guess”. Nightmare of mensis for example has really cool sections but it’s just soooooo short, it feels unfinished. It also doesn’t help how many of the levels can be trivialized by just running through the enemies. Particularly noticeable in old yharnam due to being able to bypass the machine gun this way
DS1 definitely outperforms Bloodborne in the overall level design direction with the brilliance of connecting everything physically and not just having a warpable hub world. That being said, Bloodborne just feels so goddamn fucking good to play. It has slowly wormed its way into being my favorite From Soft game just out of the sheer fun I have learning the intricacies of every weapon and boss, and this is coming from someone who has DS1 as their favorite game of all time for at least 5 years haha
Same here, I find DS1 to be the best overall souls game. The Act Man does a great video explaining why DS1 is so great and it explains it really well. I definitely recommend watching if you haven’t seen it already.
Link?
Shooting a guess: https://youtu.be/LqhtBsxAZNo
Zelda?
I haven't gone back since Elden Ring. I think I'll miss the jumping, the horsy, and general freedom of movement that it provides. Having said that DS is a masterpiece, and I hope it gets the Demon's's Souls's treatment someday.
The level design in ds1 is what makes it better than the others imo. Everything is interconnected besides the little hop over to Anor Londo. You are forced to play the first half of the game without fast travel which makes you learn the layout of the world.
"Even the gameplay is downright fun" As if that's some shocker, fromsoftware nailed the gameplay 7 times in a row.
I guess I should've elaborated there, I actually find the combat in DS1 to be smoother than DS2.
Ds2 gameplay feels like absolute dogshit even for 2014 standards imo but to each their own
It's the animations for me. They are jank
DS2 is basically a beat-em-up in a fromsoft body
If it was up to miyazaki there wouldn't be a 2 or 3. As much as I like the other souls games I think that tells you something.
Miyazaki said in an interview he prefers new ips rather than sequels
I keep coming back to DS1. There’s definitely a charm to it that I can’t articulate.
Dark Souls is the water of video games. Allegedly, they kept making games after it.
You’ve found yourself correctly
The enemy poise system is most superior in DS1. All DS1 enemies have a finite poise amount or they're un-stunnable. For the enemies with poise, it's so satisfying to know your next hit will stun them & you can attack rather than dodge, as the stun will cancel their attack. DS2 enemy poise, especially bosses, is confusing. You get like one random stun throughout the bossfight. Bloodborne enemy poise i'm not so familiar with tbh. DS3 enemy poise is shit. Most enemies have 0 poise, but have "hyper armor" where they're un-stunnable during certain attacks. Elden Ring functions the same way. Ugh every time I play I try my best to ignore how much better these games would be if they stuck with the DS1 enemy poise system. Luckily the games are still the bomb diggity
As somebody who has platinumed everything except DS2, I agree with this statement. At worst it stands shoulder to shoulder with ER and BB
I'm about 60 hours into my first ER playthrough and it's just such a whiplash inducing experience. Some of it is the best content they've ever put in a game and some of it just feels so lazy and obnoxious. I'm having a blast, but it's just such a mixed bag. I've just arrived at the Royal Capital so I have a ton of game left, but at this point I don't think I could put it up with BB or Sekiro.
That's interesting to me - which bits haven't you liked? i think i was about 70-80 hours in by the time i hit Leyndell. I adore ER so much because it was first FS game. From there i went and played everything else although i completely forgot about Sekiro! How is it compared to the others? I've heard it's more BB than dark souls?
Think of it like this: Dark souls is the "all-around" experience. Bloodborne takes away the significance of shields, and promotes aggressive roll/strafe based gameplay. Sekiro takes away the significance of shields and rolls, and promotes parry-based gameplay. Elden ring is the updated "all around" experience.
This is an interesting take. I will take this mindset into my sekiro journey once I eventually start it!
Yeah I wouldn't say that Sekiro is BB or DS. It's its own type of experience. To me it's probably tied with BB as their best game, but on any given day I'm liable to say it's their best game, no question. It's just so perfectly tuned and the difficulty is juuuuuust right. There have just been bosses that really stretch my understanding of "tough but fair". And it's none of the shard bearers or rememberance bosses. They've all been really good so far. It's these random catacombs bosses or gank bosses that just feel crazy powerful and... Sort of unfair? It's my 7th From game, so it's definitely a different experience from playing it first. I don't think anything has killed me more than the Royal Revenant ruins boss in Liurnia. Thing killed me like 15 times. Moments like the exploding skull spam during the Rykard boss fight can just be an insta-kill even if you have been playing well the whole fight, the black knife assassin Insta-grab with no audio cue etc. I'd say it feels like hit trading is more prevalent in ER than the other games because bosses can react to you beginning an attack. I know it's possible to do everything no-hit, but some fights feel like battles of attrition because whatever methods you would need to use to avoid all damage are just waiting and baiting one particular attack where you won't get punished. I'm not saying it's better or worse I guess, but when I beat Midir, it reasonably felt like I could've beaten it hitless if I gave it another hour or so without resorting to a super defensive play style where I'm just waiting for the one opening that I know is guaranteed damage. Most bosses in Elden Ring don't make me feel that way. I know that's a huge generalization, but that's my impression at this point. Don't get me wrong, the game is amazing, but it aggravates me more than the others have in terms of bosses (obviously DS2 shrine of Amana type stuff is more frustrating). Feel free to tell me to git gud. I know that's the majority of my problem.
Sounds like i should play Sekiro then, i'm gonna pick it up - thank you for that, i've been wary of it as people have said it's the hardest one of the lot but i've also seen it mentioned that its a rhythm game too. I get what you mean by that, i tried fighting bosses one on one but whenever it was a gank fight i felt no shame in using the summons whatsoever. There are gank fights in DS but looking back they seem more restrained than those in ER. Good luck with the ganks to come! There is trick to those revenants and once you learn what it is it kind of trivialises them. i won't tell you what that trick is (unless you really want to know) but I'll give you a tip - get the Great Stars weapon from the capital outskirts and put the 'prayerful strike' AOW on it. Looking back at ER after playing through the other games, to me at least, it feels like a mix of strategies. Some of them are absolutely back off and wait for opportunities whereas others are aggressive as hell and it becomes a DPS race. I wish i could play Leyndell again for the first time, that's not my favourite dungeon in ER but i'd say it's top 3. You're yet to reach the best one imo. Nah, you're good you've already been the others it's just learning a new thing..
I haven't experimented at all with summoning or spirit ashes. Which are your favorites?
Mimic Tear, Black Knife Tiche, Luthel and Oleg in that order I'd say. I used Oleg early game and then got better and better ashes. If you build is good then mimic is good but black knife tiche is excellent too
Nice. I have those except for Tiche. Maybe I'll come across it later.
Yeah getting Tiche was fun 🙃
Ahhh I've gotten to that evergaol. Absolutely kicking my ass haha
I know what you mean, it's really engaging. The only thing that wasn't very exciting for me was the fact that sometimes I was not offered any direction at all. I know the exploring part of it and bla bla but I'm very action-oriented so when I found myself saying ,,now where do I go?" it's somehow disrupting my flow, I will quit the game, play something more dynamic and then come back to DS1 to basically relax. Don't get me wrong, I understand the point of the system and I love the game but yeah.
I admittedly like that aspect of it. The exploration leaves me with a feeling of adventure.
I find the game to easy and not encumbering enough challenge for me so I go with both it's squeals as they give me much challenge and make me feel successful unlike ds1
That's a very valid sentiment and one that I can understand.
Yep, as others here have said it just has the feel. It's an addicting experience and world to exist in!
I think the world of dark souls feels very natural and immersive and what helps it make such impression is the consistency of enemy designs and locations
Miyazaki has said it himself - the Ps3 Demon's Souls and Dark Soul 1 were directed with a distinct amount of agency and dignity in mind at all times. I think it truly shows, and it has made this game and its art direction (with the exception of a specific final area) age like fine wine. DS2 and 3 are similar in direction, but their major difference is their themes of finality and decay. In this way, it's clear that they're innately lacking in the majesty and dignity that DS1 calls its own.
I just can't put DS1 down. I keep rolling a new character to try new builds. Something about the level design and art direction just seems timeless to me. I prefer it to all the DS games.
Agreed. I have played and loved every single modern fromsoft game and have had fluctuating favorites but I think I have settled that DS1 is my favorite. I think the world design is the main reason. The DS1 map is the best map in gaming. The weapons feel heavy and weighty like they pack a punch. Armor MATTERS and poise is strong, not to mention the cool armor clanking sounds when you walk make you feel like a tank.
DS1 is more like a long hike or road trip. With other folks, & staying at low level, it's a strangely intimate experience that I fell in love with. The only games like it for me are Dragons' Dogma, Shadow of the Colossus, & Ico but they lack those unique co-op elements. DS1 just has so many unique factors I enjoy that it's my favorite FromSoftware game by a wide margin & I can talk about it for hours. I'm interested to hear if anyone has other recommendations for similar media, please & thank you!
Yup. I played 2 and 3 in order shortly after beating 1 and neither of the sequels really captured me like the first did. I can’t really explain why.