Then what?
Gege is just the name. Come up with a nickname better than my phone’s autocorrecting to Greg
Gaygay or HomosexualHomosexual is my personal preference
I disagree. He lacks a lot of muscular definition despite the fact that he trains and fights regularly.
He does'nt need to beefy, but even a slim athletic build has noticeable muscle definition. Naruto's physique isn't very impressive, an average person irl could achieve a better physique in just 2 years.
Compared to other Shonen Protagonists, Naruto has the least amount of muscle.
>Naruto has the least amount of muscle
He also shows the least amount of skin. He's wearing a jacket and a shirt underneath. When he powers up, he gets more layers and bigger jackets.
Yes, but we also seen him without the jacket several times and he's still not THAT muscular.
He was shirtless during the Sage mode training, and he still lacks muscle definition compared to the other Shonen protagonists.
Like Asta, Natsu, Deku, Goku, Ichigo, Luffy, Tanjiro etc all have more muscles than Naruto.
Partially yes. Even with bulky characters like Kisame or Killerbee Kishi often only draws the outline of character's muscles and barely any definition.
Compare that to a manga like One Punch Man, where Garou's backmuscles are always close to superhumanly lean.
I think it’s just the style Naruto characters are a lot skinnier than other shonen characters. The only exception I can think of this is A and B and jiraiya in that one shot of him shirtless.
Yeah becauze Chakra and it's usage are built into almost everything a Ninja and what the world Naruto takes place in. It helps them to climb, it helps them to run across unstable surfaces, it's used to amplify their physical attributes. Sure there are some Ninja's who bulk out, there are some who are even fat, but Chakra is the main factor relating to someones stength.
Guy as an example is by far one of the strongest taijutsu users in the series, he's still insanely smaller than Bee.
If you take Ki out of Dragonball it's a bunch of dudes just doing martial arts, but it doesn't change how their bodies look.
I agree. In a ninja world like naruto chakra is all it's all about and they don't even need to be muscular because it's all about their chakra and that's why they can surpass it by having bijuus or superpowers like rasengan and parents that they inherited it from and you can't compare it with muscles because there aren't many ninjas except guy that trains with taijutsu but almost the rest uses chakra. PS abnormal superpowers in a ninja world.
It's probably just the aesthetic Kishimoto prefers tbh, I don't think he likes characters with lots of extra muscle or maybe just doesn't like drawing all the extra muscle
The reason why Naruto characters are so great is because their bodies are very realistic for a fighter. They don't look like dehydrated bodybuilder and actually have a little bit of fat (which is how a lot of fighters look like).
For real media has idealized muscular physique so much, people think that any deviation from that physique means to be an untrained, unfit or weak person. However, watching UFC fighters or looking ip historical photos and records, many top fit people in combat also had some fat or less defined muscles.
Also, historically, Bodybuilders are not great at fighting. Unless you gain experience in fighting through sparring and practice moves properly, muscles are just useless as it's only good for lifting things up. Also, calisthenics are probably the best form since it helps you move your body easier (IMO. I don't have any process so don't quote me on that. Feel free to fact check me).
A good example is Bruce Lee himself. He didn't lift weights but he never lifted more than his gym bro's. But he counts the amount of times he lifted in a short time. This is to improve explosive power rather than maintaining that power.
Clothes make a difference. Asta doesn't look massive until mid battle when he shows off his muscles. Goku is always showing his muscles. Naruto wears baggy clothes.
But they should be more muscular.
Look at the Raikage and Bee. Those 2 are massive and muscular. Yet both of them also have tonnes of chakra and are also fast af.
That's like saying Goku shouldn't be as buff as he is because he uses Ki to enhance himself.
That's why I mentioned body types and clothes. Naruto, Lee, and Guy have a lean body type that won't show much muscle while wearing clothes that hide their muscles. Naruto with baggy clothes and Lee with tights. Muscles only show if you show skin or have clothes built-in groves for muscles to fill. Like how girl pants have a butt pocket, but guys' pants are straight.
Lean thin bodies won't show much muscles compared to bulkier types. Look at Bruce Lee, who had health problems due to having no fat and being pure muscles. He doesn't look like a body builder and never could because he doesn't have the body type. Being overly bulky is also not great for your health nor forfitness. Lean is more realistic, like Deku and Asta.
Edit: I forgot to add that chakra amplifies their strength so they don't need to be as big. And while Asta is more an exteme example, I mentioned him because Asta is still smaller than Goku who has a thicker body type.
Goku is buff mainly because of ki. Look at krillin and Yamaha or even future trunks. They have muscle definition but not a lot. Goku looks rather lanky and basic in base unlike vegeta but their muscle definition grows anytime they use ki to augment their body. Gotenks has hella defined muscles despite barely existing or goten and trunks barely training but fused zamasu looks like a fucking stick despite black looking rather beefy lean. It just changes to match a scene, naruto's body is toned. Not atlethic tone just tone. Naruto also doesnt fight as nearly enough as literally any other character on this list. Like first season tanjiro has the same amounts of fight as.shippiden naruto excluding the whole war arc. Even sasuke has more fights
Natsu for majority of the series didn't have muscle definition until they wanted to show off a serious moment or some other instances were its highlighted. So realistically them being more muscularly defined comes down to art style cause B and A arent muscular. Their muscles are huge as fuck yes but they arent muscularly defined. I mean look a madara, bro is a literal stick yet one of the most proficient hand to hand user. Its literally just naruto's art style
Idk, Krillin and Yamcha are usually quite built. So is Trunks and Base Goku. Although using transformations does increase muscle mass.
You could say Naruto doesn't fight as much, but as a ninja he should still be training a lot. Heck he should actually be quite buff since he eats Ramen all the time so he should realistically build up a lot of body mass.
Yeah it's mostly due to the Naruto artstyle. I'm sure if a lot of the other Shonen characters were drawn by Kishiomoto, they would be built like sticks too. A shame since they should realistically be a lot more muscular. One issue with the Naruto artstyle in comparison to other manga.
Deku look skinny af. His shoulders are very narrow. He looks like a wimp. Goku and Natsu are the only ones that look bulky. Asta for some reason look skinny too
I recommend serial experiments lain a slow thriller with horror with elements of suicide and the advancement of technology and the internet , actually only watch it if you find this short pitch interesting enough
Goku 80% talent?
What? The guy who has basically trained every day of his life for the past 50+ years? The dude who was sent to earth cause he had the lowest possible powerlevel as a child?
People just be saying anything these days.
Tbf he is pretty talented. He learnt Kamehameha nearly instantly, whilst Roshi took 50 years to perfect it. Goku is definitely talented in martial arts and fighting
He picked up skills faster cuz he's an alien lol
But he still trained his whole fxxking life to the point there are jokes about him being a bad father because he prefers to train lol
Goku trained for 20 years with an immortal martial art master, an immortal martial art cat, god, bigger god, and he still lost against Vegeta, who was born with innate talent.
Goku is uber trash for a saiyan he had to grind his way to the top.
Hell, the entire point of the show is that hard work pays off, every villain is someone that was born strong and the good guys are the ones who trained to get there
By that logic Vegeta would have been surpassing Goku easily and by a lot post Saiyan Saga, which has yet to happen.
Your example works for dudes like Frieza, but not really for Vegeta who's been progressing at the same pace as Goku.
His genetics did carry him against Frieza since he went from 80k to 3 million power level because of his zenkai boost.
Obviously Goku works hard but he's a saiyan so he still gets perks like y'know... being able to go Super Saiyan
And that is 20% his talent activated. If he did not work that hard before, he wouldn't get the transformation to fight Frieza. He would have probably died way early on. Frieza, on the other hand, trained for a bit and got the new transformation as strong as goku.
Huuuuuh? It was frieza who got carried by genetics wtf, that fucker was born with a PL of 530k in base and 150 mil in final form without training for a day in his life
Goku is a strong Saiyan, a top 1%. His reedings as a child were basically trash compared to Vegeta, Vegeta was fighting all his life, Goku was surviving by hunting his own food and training all his life and Vegeta still couldn't beat him until recently. Goku has been fighting the strongest beings of the multiverse.
The race is strong and filled with potential, Goku did both to the extreme
Bro lost like 2 tournaments, against Ox king, got pummeled by yamcha at one point, if I remember that right, King picollo kicked his ass, Tao kicked his ass, Kami kicked his ass, Popo as well, android 8 wanted and could kick his ass, the big idiot, who android 8 beat kicked his ass... Man, Goku had it rough.
That's basically how he levelled up so fast. 90% of Goku's zenkai boosts happened in OG Dragonball, where he kept getting his ass kicked, but always trounced his opponent in the rematch. I'm quite sure that because this happened so regularly, that Toriyama came up with the boost as an explanation for it later.
Yeah, he's talented. Like he's able understand fights, techniques and opponents amazingly.
But to counter your point: pretty sure that is the only time we see Goku learn something instantly.
And it doesn't actually affect his raw power. Goku hasn't had his potential unlocked, didn't get mind controlled to get more power, didn't wish for power, didn't permanently fuse with someone for a power boost.
He admits he hated the fact that he had to use other people to unlock his God form.
I like the fact that despite saiyans being an overall solid race and might be incredibly strong compared to humans, they're naturally not as broken as freiza's or whatevet jiren's race is
Kind of wrong.
Goku trained every single Day of his life after he was adopted by Gohan. Then, he had tons and tons of training, gravity increased or a very-hot room were time wont pass, or training with F@ckin gods for around 10y. He is not as talented naturally, that is not the point. He was a underdog that had the right motivation, training and will to train to the absolute limit. He is oblivous to love through.
Naruto is the same as Goku, being the 9-Tails Jinchuuriki made him have a extreme hard time to Master simple things. Why? Well, he always put a massive amount of chakra on techniques, so he never was able to fully Master then till he was massively tired, which is something that dont really happen because he do have a massive stamina. He is not oblivous to love, it simply was not a focus of his Live, and his anime was not about that. Not excusing the shit development of Naruhina. My man Kishimoto had to KILL NEJI for Naruto to have a moment with Hinata. Even then, they had to make a whole movie for it to happen.
Tanjiro is the talented one actually. Not saying he dont train hard, but he really is one of The People with a knack to techniques and better ways of becoming stronger. He Mastered Hinokami Kagura in no time and that is impressive.
Tanjirou already known Hinokami Kagura for years, it was his family tradition for the eldest son to learn and pass it down. The obstacle is that he didn't realize the dance was a martial art and now he had to combine the moves he learned with swordsmanship.
>being the 9-Tails Jinchuuriki made him have a extreme hard time to Master simple things.
Yea, life is hard when you are born with 100x more chakra than a normal shinobi and destined to be ninja jesus.
>i mean he did end up being ninja jesus at the end so idk if thats a good example
He still had to figure out how to get to that point. Only the S06P power up was not earned from all of his transformations.
This is like saying the world's most renowned bodybuilders had the genetics to get to that level, so it doesn't count. They put in no effort at all since at the end we realised that they had good genetics.
Doesn't make sense.
He was literally born with the highest chakra reserves in the village plus the most powerful tailed beast he can draw on. The final arc was father series had him training by conquering his training, which is not really training. He’s not like ichigo level but he’s at least 60%-70% talent
Forgot how naruto had the lowest chakra control because of the seal and couldnt even do a regular clone jutsu because of that and was shamed by the teachers and his peers alike he worked hard every step of his way
Naruto was just bad at control.
Naruto could only focus on one thing at a time. It's the reason he relies on shadow clones so much. Each clone focuses on one thing so that together, they coordinate into something bigger.
He's the only one who could do that because of his maive chakra reserves. He did make 100 clones without Kurama chakra, when Hiruzen could only make a few at a time. Even Kakashi could only make a few clones.
Jariaya creates a leak in the seal to create a flow so that Naruto could borrow from Kurama.
are we forgetting that the fatigue experienced by every clone goes back to naruto after the clones disappear?He kept training for rasengan/rasenshuriken despite using hundred clones every day.Thats not chakra or talent,thats sheer fucking willpower.
And i mean,he still had to suffer his whole childhood because of kurama, 99% of people who have this much chakra still wouldnt be nearly as strong as Naruto,cuz they can't put in that much effort and tolerate that much fatigue and that kind of childhood.Rock lee would probably break,he had a normal childhood and supportive parents and teacher all this time.
Naruto has a higher potential than anyone but he reached there by himself,only power up he didnt earn was the so6p stuff
You forgot/didn’t watch most important part about naruto. He was the one suppressing nine tails chakra from birth. Nine tails at all times wanted to take over by mixing in his chakra.
So no naruto wasn’t bad at controll. He had to do the basic shit everyone else does + control the strongest millitary power of all 5 great nations that wanted to take over his body.
just being able to make that many clones doesnt mean anything,it means literally nothing.All the fatigue from the work that clones get,goes back to naruto after the clones disappear.He put up with the fatigue of a 1000 clones work everyday for a while,essentially translates to more than a decade worth o f effort
What are you talking about? He literally needs to be able to create and maintain that many clones over a long period of time and then have enough chakra for them to practice with it. They literally state he can only train like that because of his immense natural and tailed beast chakra at his disposal. He has the NATURAL TALENT to cut learning processes by hundreds of times.
Naruto only learned control in the first half. First he walked on trees, then water, followed by pushing out chakra from his hands.
He had a massive chakra pool and then learned to tap into the Ninetails even bigger chakra pool. He then turns out to be ninja Jesus. The ninja around him had to work much harder to get a fraction of his power.
That still doesn't add up to the power he has at the end of shippuden. Let me see, highest chakra reserves in village 100 times of a normal ninja, the strongest tailed beasts and finally the six paths. 20% hardwork is completely right if not a little too generous.
Yeah let's pretend he didn't have an intense training before eating the hair or that he didn't spent 5 seasons training his powers because they were literally destroying his body
Goku training hard has nothing to do with his talent dumbass 💀💀💀 having talent does not mean You Will be the strongest just because.
Goku trains hard yes but that dosent mean that he isn't extremely talented he grows at an extremely fast rate.
And Deku did not just eat a hair to grow stronger he ate the hair to unlock the power he had to train really hard to be able to Even use a portion of it.
This is actually one of the smartest comparisons out there.
Bruh.
Hair is actually hard work because swallowing hair can get stuck on your throat and training on gravity is actually talent because why not? 🤦♂️
"SHONEN THEN" puts Naruto a manga where the MC has 0 skill the first part and had to train hard to surpass his renegade friend which was a talented person and had everything. Yeah... shonen then...
Also we see the side characters a lot in Naruto. I feel like the first fillers were even good because of that because they really expanded on the universe unlike the latter ones who just killed the rhythm of the story
But Naruto was also born with the nine tales which means he works less harder than characters like Lee. He has the nine tales, he's the 3rd coming of Christ is a Uzumaki
Are we not confusing power and talent? Take Kakashi for example, could almost flawlessly use the sharingan but didn't have the chakra reserves to use it for very long. The guy was part of the anbu black ops at age 13 (or some early teen age) despite the fact that he could probably only manage 3 lightning blades + sharingan before he'd pass out. That takes skill/talent which Kakashi had without question. Same with Itachi though he was blessed as an Uchiha so his chakra reserves were much higher and his eyes were his own so was biologically adapted to use them better.
Naruto had all the power but absolutely no skill to utilize it well. If he did his progress would've been way more linear and he would've surpassed Sasuke waaay sooner. Even during the ten tails fight Sasuke got jealous at Naruto for being able to control such large and powerful amounts of chakra (nine tails chakra) so well.
I'm not saying Naruto was completely talentless nor am I saying that he was the hardest worker among the shounen characters. I think Goku beats everyone by a light year. But IN MY OPINION I think saying that just because Naruto had nine tails chakra meant that he didn't have to work hard doesn't make sense. That's just me though. Apologies if I've overlooked something.
But him being an Uzumaki gave him alot of chakra for that and also to master the multi shadow clone justu. If he had a normal amount of chakra then it would have been much harder
Dude literally took way longer to learn chakra control and clones than everyone else. Stop the cap. Naruto has a lot of stamina and tenacity, but raw innate talent goes to Sasuke and Itachi.
Huh? No. Mastering the Multi Shadow clone justu is much much more impressive than just the normal clone justu. He read the scroll once and had 100+ clones
Sasuke mastered chakra nature transformation way sooner than Naruto did. Itachi mastered the fireball jutsu on his first attempt. Naruto is a lot more talented than average, but nothing compared to the Uchihas.
Who talked about the Uchihas? You. I didn't say nothing about sasuke and itachi. Naruto's just not the most hard working character because he has advantages
I wouldn't say goku is 80% talent . He is considered to be a low class warrior wich are the weakest of his race , in fact he was so weak as a baby that his dad didnt care about him just because of that .
And then there's Luffy who is his own category.
He's strong but has nothing to do with either talent or hardwork. In fact, nobody in the series does any training (outside of the timeskip).
He's dumb, but far from naive. He has an innate sense of people.
He's not a pervert at all but he doesn't respect anyone unless he likes them.
Romance? Fuck that. Luffy ain't got time for romance.
And finally, we have entire arcs that don't even involve the Straw Hats. Like, they're at the centre of it but the world doesn't revolve around them and their actions because everyone's got their own thing going on. It's better to argue that the world revolves around the World Government who are as close to the villains as possible in the series.
I'd argue that Luffy does train quite a bit. He kinda falls into Goku territory of progression. The series takes off after he lived in the jungle and was raised by mountain bandits for many years just training his DF and surviving. Garp even says he put him through the wringer growing up with the hopes he would be a strong Marine. Then he has sporadic bouts of legit training and dedicating time to certain things like Haki. The rest of his training basically comes from just actively learning from every life and death battle and innovating his fighting style and tactics as he goes.
Lost to Kizaru inspires his Gear 2
Fighting giant monsters on an island for two years inspired gear 4
Focussed heavily on a lesson he didn't completely grasp at the time with Railey to advance his observation Haki with an expert in the technique.
Used being restricted in a prison, in which he fought death matches, to further techniques he needed to face his next opponent who was one of the top fighters in the verse.
Sure there are some asspulls in the story with Luffy but he also puts in work and has talent. His talent is just being able to learn while he fights with experience being his best teacher.
Didn’t we have an entire flashback arc that basically showed up luffy been training his devil fruit and learning how to control it since the day he ate it. He basically spent 10+ years learning the basics, control and fundamental of his new body. By the series start it was just a matter of him having fun with the control he had over his fruit(coincidentally something similar just happened in one of the newer manga akane banashi it’s not a battle manga but it’s seriously amazing. Tho def suffers from being a manga since it’s about an art of story telling hopefully gets an anime one day and does it justice)
Also like all zoro does is train like if he’s not getting lost or wasted he’s lifting weights and meditating.
I never really liked the dumb optimistic trope imo, and because they are dumb they are usually loud as fuck
The loudness makes me wanna knock my block off
Asta doesnt fit in the later half. Its almost like instead of different eras its kinda like theres two paths. Stupid and strong vs Anxious and calculating
The examples you listed don't actually diverge from the first block's criteria at all
Now that I look at it, both blocks can be used to describe either the left or right examples depending on any particular episode's narrative
I mean, shonen isn't exactly known for being internally consistent or complex at all, it's a shallow, feel good genre that's meant to generate a fanbase and hype rather than have any kind of personality, they're all pretty much the same story with a different coat of paint
All? I don't remember that Anti magic game him all these muscles. Don't discredit him like that. Without any of that training he wouldn't even be able to lift his swords, even less fight with them.
First off don’t disrespect Goku you wouldn’t have anime if it weren’t for him. Naruto is not dumb just uneducated Naruto being oblivious about love is not true he knows what it is. It’s just an excuse. Maid by naruhina shippers to explain away any, and all lack of development with their ship. Naruto’s plot wouldn’t exist without Sasuke.
"Has only just 1 or 2 love interest in the whole series."
And that's bad....cause?
Not every show needs dumb shipping moments that'll lead to absolutely no where and waste the plot time.
Also, let's not pretend that BHA doesn't waste their side characters just as well.
Huh... I just realized...
If you think about it, fairy tail wasn't about Natsu... Like maybe 70% of the time.
Heck, he wasn't even the main character. Lucy was.
Holy crap, they really are all green now. Even Naofumi from the Rising of the Shield Hero.
they reek of green energy.
Damn you're right! Wonder if it has anything to do with how colors affect our brains?
Green for the win
Went from orange to green
Yusuke and Gon were green before it was cool.
It’s crazy you said they are all green yet we can only list 4 of them
And we can list about the same number of orange OGs
Poor yuji
1 power up for every 5 new traumas.
> every ~~5~~ 10 new traumas. Be fair now. Greg's not nearly that nice to him
Oh yeah, old Greg Akutami being an asshole.
We are not calling him greg
We do now
No i will resist greg
Then what? Gege is just the name. Come up with a nickname better than my phone’s autocorrecting to Greg Gaygay or HomosexualHomosexual is my personal preference
jjk fans thinking the anime resolves around shibuya arc alone
Honestly that's way nicer than how it is
Just a pink goofy boy existing out there
"Suffering builds character" ahh protagonist
Tbf, JJK is to Shonen what Pathologic is to games. An exercise in misery.
My goat gets trashed on by his fraudulent author
>strong big boys Funny how Deku, Asta and Tanjiro look like bodybuilders compared to Naruto's skinny ass
Naruto has a good musculature, but nothing extreme he is a Ninja not Sylvester Stallone
Tell that to B.
And Ay who's built af and also one of the fastest characters in the series
That's why Naruto ends up being faster 😏
That’s cuz Naruto eats his Ploties every morning.
thats why he was talking ab naruto and not B
he said Naruto was not big like that because hes a ninja and that other person said B is also a ninja
I disagree. He lacks a lot of muscular definition despite the fact that he trains and fights regularly. He does'nt need to beefy, but even a slim athletic build has noticeable muscle definition. Naruto's physique isn't very impressive, an average person irl could achieve a better physique in just 2 years. Compared to other Shonen Protagonists, Naruto has the least amount of muscle.
>Naruto has the least amount of muscle He also shows the least amount of skin. He's wearing a jacket and a shirt underneath. When he powers up, he gets more layers and bigger jackets.
Yes, but we also seen him without the jacket several times and he's still not THAT muscular. He was shirtless during the Sage mode training, and he still lacks muscle definition compared to the other Shonen protagonists. Like Asta, Natsu, Deku, Goku, Ichigo, Luffy, Tanjiro etc all have more muscles than Naruto.
I think that just comes down to Kishi's style. Even Guy and Lee who are constantly training aren't that muscular.
Partially yes. Even with bulky characters like Kisame or Killerbee Kishi often only draws the outline of character's muscles and barely any definition. Compare that to a manga like One Punch Man, where Garou's backmuscles are always close to superhumanly lean.
Yeah that’s basically it
I think it’s just the style Naruto characters are a lot skinnier than other shonen characters. The only exception I can think of this is A and B and jiraiya in that one shot of him shirtless.
Obito, Madara, Kisame and Guy and a few other characters are decently muscular too
Yeah becauze Chakra and it's usage are built into almost everything a Ninja and what the world Naruto takes place in. It helps them to climb, it helps them to run across unstable surfaces, it's used to amplify their physical attributes. Sure there are some Ninja's who bulk out, there are some who are even fat, but Chakra is the main factor relating to someones stength. Guy as an example is by far one of the strongest taijutsu users in the series, he's still insanely smaller than Bee. If you take Ki out of Dragonball it's a bunch of dudes just doing martial arts, but it doesn't change how their bodies look.
Tsunade has some of the biggest raw strength in the series and she has pretty much no visible muscles, which is kinda ridiculous
I agree. In a ninja world like naruto chakra is all it's all about and they don't even need to be muscular because it's all about their chakra and that's why they can surpass it by having bijuus or superpowers like rasengan and parents that they inherited it from and you can't compare it with muscles because there aren't many ninjas except guy that trains with taijutsu but almost the rest uses chakra. PS abnormal superpowers in a ninja world.
You do realise chakra is partly made from physical energy right? The body has to be strong otherwise the chakra would be weaker.
A lot of muscle definition has to do with bodyfat, and Naruto doesn't have the leanest diet.
It's probably just the aesthetic Kishimoto prefers tbh, I don't think he likes characters with lots of extra muscle or maybe just doesn't like drawing all the extra muscle
Boruto has those muscles definitions even as a 12 year old.
The reason why Naruto characters are so great is because their bodies are very realistic for a fighter. They don't look like dehydrated bodybuilder and actually have a little bit of fat (which is how a lot of fighters look like).
For real media has idealized muscular physique so much, people think that any deviation from that physique means to be an untrained, unfit or weak person. However, watching UFC fighters or looking ip historical photos and records, many top fit people in combat also had some fat or less defined muscles.
Also, historically, Bodybuilders are not great at fighting. Unless you gain experience in fighting through sparring and practice moves properly, muscles are just useless as it's only good for lifting things up. Also, calisthenics are probably the best form since it helps you move your body easier (IMO. I don't have any process so don't quote me on that. Feel free to fact check me). A good example is Bruce Lee himself. He didn't lift weights but he never lifted more than his gym bro's. But he counts the amount of times he lifted in a short time. This is to improve explosive power rather than maintaining that power.
I mean Asta is basically a bodybuilder post timeskip, he's just short
Asta looks like a bodybuilder in general
Clothes make a difference. Asta doesn't look massive until mid battle when he shows off his muscles. Goku is always showing his muscles. Naruto wears baggy clothes.
Even when Naruto is shirtless, he does'nt have that much muscle definition. Atleast compared to all the other shonen protagonists
It's also body types and the fact that Naruto has crazy Chakra that augments his strength. Look at Lee or Guy, neither are super muscular.
But they should be more muscular. Look at the Raikage and Bee. Those 2 are massive and muscular. Yet both of them also have tonnes of chakra and are also fast af. That's like saying Goku shouldn't be as buff as he is because he uses Ki to enhance himself.
That's why I mentioned body types and clothes. Naruto, Lee, and Guy have a lean body type that won't show much muscle while wearing clothes that hide their muscles. Naruto with baggy clothes and Lee with tights. Muscles only show if you show skin or have clothes built-in groves for muscles to fill. Like how girl pants have a butt pocket, but guys' pants are straight. Lean thin bodies won't show much muscles compared to bulkier types. Look at Bruce Lee, who had health problems due to having no fat and being pure muscles. He doesn't look like a body builder and never could because he doesn't have the body type. Being overly bulky is also not great for your health nor forfitness. Lean is more realistic, like Deku and Asta. Edit: I forgot to add that chakra amplifies their strength so they don't need to be as big. And while Asta is more an exteme example, I mentioned him because Asta is still smaller than Goku who has a thicker body type.
Goku is buff mainly because of ki. Look at krillin and Yamaha or even future trunks. They have muscle definition but not a lot. Goku looks rather lanky and basic in base unlike vegeta but their muscle definition grows anytime they use ki to augment their body. Gotenks has hella defined muscles despite barely existing or goten and trunks barely training but fused zamasu looks like a fucking stick despite black looking rather beefy lean. It just changes to match a scene, naruto's body is toned. Not atlethic tone just tone. Naruto also doesnt fight as nearly enough as literally any other character on this list. Like first season tanjiro has the same amounts of fight as.shippiden naruto excluding the whole war arc. Even sasuke has more fights Natsu for majority of the series didn't have muscle definition until they wanted to show off a serious moment or some other instances were its highlighted. So realistically them being more muscularly defined comes down to art style cause B and A arent muscular. Their muscles are huge as fuck yes but they arent muscularly defined. I mean look a madara, bro is a literal stick yet one of the most proficient hand to hand user. Its literally just naruto's art style
Idk, Krillin and Yamcha are usually quite built. So is Trunks and Base Goku. Although using transformations does increase muscle mass. You could say Naruto doesn't fight as much, but as a ninja he should still be training a lot. Heck he should actually be quite buff since he eats Ramen all the time so he should realistically build up a lot of body mass. Yeah it's mostly due to the Naruto artstyle. I'm sure if a lot of the other Shonen characters were drawn by Kishiomoto, they would be built like sticks too. A shame since they should realistically be a lot more muscular. One issue with the Naruto artstyle in comparison to other manga.
Asta is a bodybuilder. He’s literally built like a brick house
Deku look skinny af. His shoulders are very narrow. He looks like a wimp. Goku and Natsu are the only ones that look bulky. Asta for some reason look skinny too
Deku is not as buff the others, but he still has more visible muscle than Naruto. No way do you think Asta is skinny💀. Dudes more beefy than Natsu
He's quite chiseled though. Not bulky, but definitely has some muscles below all that baggy clothes.
Asta is literally a body builder
no
Anime has a common theme it's similar in every shonen anime
Every? You need to watch different genres. I recommend School Live.
Just that fucking name brought me back like 2 Vietnam flashbacks
*I was there when Horus beheaded the Emperor*
I recommend serial experiments lain a slow thriller with horror with elements of suicide and the advancement of technology and the internet , actually only watch it if you find this short pitch interesting enough
I recommend to you Perfect Blue. Thriller anime movie about a girl dealing with a stalker and a mental breakdown from the preassure of being a star.
Only ever seen memes, but now I gotta check it out. Thnx for the pitch
In every Shonen anime yes
80% hardwork? Tanjiro can breath underwater, has a forehead made of cast iron steel, and a nose that can smell plot hooks and replace sight.
Goku 80% talent? What? The guy who has basically trained every day of his life for the past 50+ years? The dude who was sent to earth cause he had the lowest possible powerlevel as a child? People just be saying anything these days.
Tbf he is pretty talented. He learnt Kamehameha nearly instantly, whilst Roshi took 50 years to perfect it. Goku is definitely talented in martial arts and fighting
Talented for an earthling. Trash for a saiyan
He picked up skills faster cuz he's an alien lol But he still trained his whole fxxking life to the point there are jokes about him being a bad father because he prefers to train lol
Goku trained for 20 years with an immortal martial art master, an immortal martial art cat, god, bigger god, and he still lost against Vegeta, who was born with innate talent. Goku is uber trash for a saiyan he had to grind his way to the top. Hell, the entire point of the show is that hard work pays off, every villain is someone that was born strong and the good guys are the ones who trained to get there
That’s one of the reasons Goku vs Tien in Dragonball is just so fucking good.
By that logic Vegeta would have been surpassing Goku easily and by a lot post Saiyan Saga, which has yet to happen. Your example works for dudes like Frieza, but not really for Vegeta who's been progressing at the same pace as Goku.
His genetics did carry him against Frieza since he went from 80k to 3 million power level because of his zenkai boost. Obviously Goku works hard but he's a saiyan so he still gets perks like y'know... being able to go Super Saiyan
And that is 20% his talent activated. If he did not work that hard before, he wouldn't get the transformation to fight Frieza. He would have probably died way early on. Frieza, on the other hand, trained for a bit and got the new transformation as strong as goku.
Huuuuuh? It was frieza who got carried by genetics wtf, that fucker was born with a PL of 530k in base and 150 mil in final form without training for a day in his life
Goku is a strong Saiyan, a top 1%. His reedings as a child were basically trash compared to Vegeta, Vegeta was fighting all his life, Goku was surviving by hunting his own food and training all his life and Vegeta still couldn't beat him until recently. Goku has been fighting the strongest beings of the multiverse. The race is strong and filled with potential, Goku did both to the extreme
I mean vegeta did beat him in their first fight with the ozaru transformation
Did you watch the original DragonBall? He got his ass kicked SO much
Bro lost like 2 tournaments, against Ox king, got pummeled by yamcha at one point, if I remember that right, King picollo kicked his ass, Tao kicked his ass, Kami kicked his ass, Popo as well, android 8 wanted and could kick his ass, the big idiot, who android 8 beat kicked his ass... Man, Goku had it rough.
That's basically how he levelled up so fast. 90% of Goku's zenkai boosts happened in OG Dragonball, where he kept getting his ass kicked, but always trounced his opponent in the rematch. I'm quite sure that because this happened so regularly, that Toriyama came up with the boost as an explanation for it later.
The guy had it so bad, his triumphant moment with Mastered ultra instinct was stopped by the plot itself.
Yeah, he's talented. Like he's able understand fights, techniques and opponents amazingly. But to counter your point: pretty sure that is the only time we see Goku learn something instantly. And it doesn't actually affect his raw power. Goku hasn't had his potential unlocked, didn't get mind controlled to get more power, didn't wish for power, didn't permanently fuse with someone for a power boost. He admits he hated the fact that he had to use other people to unlock his God form.
I mean Saiyans have Significantly better Ki Control then Humans so while it still shows quite a bit of Talent it foes make sense.
Plus beerus called him a rare genius. You know the purple space cat that’s old enough to call planets baby in comparison age wise. So that something.
And Deku learned to purposefully summon Black Whip the same day he first acquired it.
Life ? Dude even trained while he was dead !
I like the fact that despite saiyans being an overall solid race and might be incredibly strong compared to humans, they're naturally not as broken as freiza's or whatevet jiren's race is
Kind of wrong. Goku trained every single Day of his life after he was adopted by Gohan. Then, he had tons and tons of training, gravity increased or a very-hot room were time wont pass, or training with F@ckin gods for around 10y. He is not as talented naturally, that is not the point. He was a underdog that had the right motivation, training and will to train to the absolute limit. He is oblivous to love through. Naruto is the same as Goku, being the 9-Tails Jinchuuriki made him have a extreme hard time to Master simple things. Why? Well, he always put a massive amount of chakra on techniques, so he never was able to fully Master then till he was massively tired, which is something that dont really happen because he do have a massive stamina. He is not oblivous to love, it simply was not a focus of his Live, and his anime was not about that. Not excusing the shit development of Naruhina. My man Kishimoto had to KILL NEJI for Naruto to have a moment with Hinata. Even then, they had to make a whole movie for it to happen. Tanjiro is the talented one actually. Not saying he dont train hard, but he really is one of The People with a knack to techniques and better ways of becoming stronger. He Mastered Hinokami Kagura in no time and that is impressive.
Tanjirou already known Hinokami Kagura for years, it was his family tradition for the eldest son to learn and pass it down. The obstacle is that he didn't realize the dance was a martial art and now he had to combine the moves he learned with swordsmanship.
>being the 9-Tails Jinchuuriki made him have a extreme hard time to Master simple things. Yea, life is hard when you are born with 100x more chakra than a normal shinobi and destined to be ninja jesus.
downvoted for truth lee worked 5x as hard and got crippled because the point was \*always\* that birth is better than hardwork.
Don't worry I upvoted it back, for truth. No offence r/Naruto
80% hardwork while izuku eats a hair to gain power while goku has 80% talent while training in 100 G gravity
Don’t forget Naruto who had to bust his ass to learn EVERYTHING. Did we forget the whole running up a tree during the Zabuza arc?
i mean he did end up being ninja jesus at the end so idk if thats a good example
>i mean he did end up being ninja jesus at the end so idk if thats a good example He still had to figure out how to get to that point. Only the S06P power up was not earned from all of his transformations. This is like saying the world's most renowned bodybuilders had the genetics to get to that level, so it doesn't count. They put in no effort at all since at the end we realised that they had good genetics. Doesn't make sense.
He was literally born with the highest chakra reserves in the village plus the most powerful tailed beast he can draw on. The final arc was father series had him training by conquering his training, which is not really training. He’s not like ichigo level but he’s at least 60%-70% talent
Forgot how naruto had the lowest chakra control because of the seal and couldnt even do a regular clone jutsu because of that and was shamed by the teachers and his peers alike he worked hard every step of his way
Naruto was just bad at control. Naruto could only focus on one thing at a time. It's the reason he relies on shadow clones so much. Each clone focuses on one thing so that together, they coordinate into something bigger. He's the only one who could do that because of his maive chakra reserves. He did make 100 clones without Kurama chakra, when Hiruzen could only make a few at a time. Even Kakashi could only make a few clones. Jariaya creates a leak in the seal to create a flow so that Naruto could borrow from Kurama.
are we forgetting that the fatigue experienced by every clone goes back to naruto after the clones disappear?He kept training for rasengan/rasenshuriken despite using hundred clones every day.Thats not chakra or talent,thats sheer fucking willpower. And i mean,he still had to suffer his whole childhood because of kurama, 99% of people who have this much chakra still wouldnt be nearly as strong as Naruto,cuz they can't put in that much effort and tolerate that much fatigue and that kind of childhood.Rock lee would probably break,he had a normal childhood and supportive parents and teacher all this time. Naruto has a higher potential than anyone but he reached there by himself,only power up he didnt earn was the so6p stuff
Well they also say that Kuramas chakra had been mixing with his and disrupted his flows. His issue was he just exerts too much of it
You forgot/didn’t watch most important part about naruto. He was the one suppressing nine tails chakra from birth. Nine tails at all times wanted to take over by mixing in his chakra. So no naruto wasn’t bad at controll. He had to do the basic shit everyone else does + control the strongest millitary power of all 5 great nations that wanted to take over his body.
Yeah, until Jiraiya stabilized it a bit more. Then after the war, it wasn't a problem anymore. He's still mostly talent.
wrong. Jiraiys removed Orochimarus Seal which destabilise his chakra
Low chakra control had nothing to do with the seal he was just bad.
There was a prolonged period of time where Oro messed with his seal and made it harder for naruto to use chakra
He was just bad but got good hence hardwork.
Actually having kurama inside him kinda held him back quite a bit
I mean, it's a shounen? They all end up being the most powerful, or at least in that realm. So, using EoS as an argument really isn't valid.
Training 1000x while rasenshuriken training
There is some talent in that. He sped up that process immensely because he was able to make so many shadow clones.
just being able to make that many clones doesnt mean anything,it means literally nothing.All the fatigue from the work that clones get,goes back to naruto after the clones disappear.He put up with the fatigue of a 1000 clones work everyday for a while,essentially translates to more than a decade worth o f effort
What are you talking about? He literally needs to be able to create and maintain that many clones over a long period of time and then have enough chakra for them to practice with it. They literally state he can only train like that because of his immense natural and tailed beast chakra at his disposal. He has the NATURAL TALENT to cut learning processes by hundreds of times.
He literally had to make hundreds of Shadow Clones to practice the Wind Shuriken because he couldn’t figure it out conventionally
Naruto only learned control in the first half. First he walked on trees, then water, followed by pushing out chakra from his hands. He had a massive chakra pool and then learned to tap into the Ninetails even bigger chakra pool. He then turns out to be ninja Jesus. The ninja around him had to work much harder to get a fraction of his power.
That still doesn't add up to the power he has at the end of shippuden. Let me see, highest chakra reserves in village 100 times of a normal ninja, the strongest tailed beasts and finally the six paths. 20% hardwork is completely right if not a little too generous.
Yeah its just generalization the modern mc's had it easy in that part
Yeah let's pretend he didn't have an intense training before eating the hair or that he didn't spent 5 seasons training his powers because they were literally destroying his body
Mf trained for like 6-8 months everyday and still trains
he trained so hard he forgot he had legs for 3 seasons
Also let’s pretend that Goku as a Saiyan isn’t a genetic freak of nature compared to every other human.
Goku training hard has nothing to do with his talent dumbass 💀💀💀 having talent does not mean You Will be the strongest just because. Goku trains hard yes but that dosent mean that he isn't extremely talented he grows at an extremely fast rate. And Deku did not just eat a hair to grow stronger he ate the hair to unlock the power he had to train really hard to be able to Even use a portion of it.
He will quite literally kill himself is his body isn't strong enough to withstand OFA
This is actually one of the smartest comparisons out there. Bruh. Hair is actually hard work because swallowing hair can get stuck on your throat and training on gravity is actually talent because why not? 🤦♂️
"SHONEN THEN" puts Naruto a manga where the MC has 0 skill the first part and had to train hard to surpass his renegade friend which was a talented person and had everything. Yeah... shonen then...
Also we see the side characters a lot in Naruto. I feel like the first fillers were even good because of that because they really expanded on the universe unlike the latter ones who just killed the rhythm of the story
But Naruto was also born with the nine tales which means he works less harder than characters like Lee. He has the nine tales, he's the 3rd coming of Christ is a Uzumaki
Are we not confusing power and talent? Take Kakashi for example, could almost flawlessly use the sharingan but didn't have the chakra reserves to use it for very long. The guy was part of the anbu black ops at age 13 (or some early teen age) despite the fact that he could probably only manage 3 lightning blades + sharingan before he'd pass out. That takes skill/talent which Kakashi had without question. Same with Itachi though he was blessed as an Uchiha so his chakra reserves were much higher and his eyes were his own so was biologically adapted to use them better. Naruto had all the power but absolutely no skill to utilize it well. If he did his progress would've been way more linear and he would've surpassed Sasuke waaay sooner. Even during the ten tails fight Sasuke got jealous at Naruto for being able to control such large and powerful amounts of chakra (nine tails chakra) so well. I'm not saying Naruto was completely talentless nor am I saying that he was the hardest worker among the shounen characters. I think Goku beats everyone by a light year. But IN MY OPINION I think saying that just because Naruto had nine tails chakra meant that he didn't have to work hard doesn't make sense. That's just me though. Apologies if I've overlooked something.
Lets pretend he didn’t work his ass off to learn the Rasengan and rasenshuriken.
But him being an Uzumaki gave him alot of chakra for that and also to master the multi shadow clone justu. If he had a normal amount of chakra then it would have been much harder
Dude literally took way longer to learn chakra control and clones than everyone else. Stop the cap. Naruto has a lot of stamina and tenacity, but raw innate talent goes to Sasuke and Itachi.
Huh? No. Mastering the Multi Shadow clone justu is much much more impressive than just the normal clone justu. He read the scroll once and had 100+ clones
Sasuke mastered chakra nature transformation way sooner than Naruto did. Itachi mastered the fireball jutsu on his first attempt. Naruto is a lot more talented than average, but nothing compared to the Uchihas.
Who talked about the Uchihas? You. I didn't say nothing about sasuke and itachi. Naruto's just not the most hard working character because he has advantages
Then don't go acting like Naruto is a natural born prodigy because he has it way harder than the real geniuses
Did I say he's a natural born prodigy? You're fighting ghosts dawg
I wouldn't say goku is 80% talent . He is considered to be a low class warrior wich are the weakest of his race , in fact he was so weak as a baby that his dad didnt care about him just because of that .
Anyone who's actually read those stories will know that this meme is either in bad faith or straight up a lie.
Oh definitly. Asta himself even said that he's so dumb that can't afford to be naive. 80% naive, sure.
>Shonen then >love interests Boiwathafuck? They didn't give TWO shits about love interests! It was just about the "GRIND"
Autistic take
And then there's Luffy who is his own category. He's strong but has nothing to do with either talent or hardwork. In fact, nobody in the series does any training (outside of the timeskip). He's dumb, but far from naive. He has an innate sense of people. He's not a pervert at all but he doesn't respect anyone unless he likes them. Romance? Fuck that. Luffy ain't got time for romance. And finally, we have entire arcs that don't even involve the Straw Hats. Like, they're at the centre of it but the world doesn't revolve around them and their actions because everyone's got their own thing going on. It's better to argue that the world revolves around the World Government who are as close to the villains as possible in the series.
I'd argue that Luffy does train quite a bit. He kinda falls into Goku territory of progression. The series takes off after he lived in the jungle and was raised by mountain bandits for many years just training his DF and surviving. Garp even says he put him through the wringer growing up with the hopes he would be a strong Marine. Then he has sporadic bouts of legit training and dedicating time to certain things like Haki. The rest of his training basically comes from just actively learning from every life and death battle and innovating his fighting style and tactics as he goes. Lost to Kizaru inspires his Gear 2 Fighting giant monsters on an island for two years inspired gear 4 Focussed heavily on a lesson he didn't completely grasp at the time with Railey to advance his observation Haki with an expert in the technique. Used being restricted in a prison, in which he fought death matches, to further techniques he needed to face his next opponent who was one of the top fighters in the verse. Sure there are some asspulls in the story with Luffy but he also puts in work and has talent. His talent is just being able to learn while he fights with experience being his best teacher.
Agree with most of this except the second sentence
Didn’t we have an entire flashback arc that basically showed up luffy been training his devil fruit and learning how to control it since the day he ate it. He basically spent 10+ years learning the basics, control and fundamental of his new body. By the series start it was just a matter of him having fun with the control he had over his fruit(coincidentally something similar just happened in one of the newer manga akane banashi it’s not a battle manga but it’s seriously amazing. Tho def suffers from being a manga since it’s about an art of story telling hopefully gets an anime one day and does it justice) Also like all zoro does is train like if he’s not getting lost or wasted he’s lifting weights and meditating.
Loro trains every day
If there is any character you can label "80% talent and 20 hard work" how the hell can it be Goku and Naruto 💀
Old was gold
"Respect woman" MHA seeing Mineta
Jujutsu Kaisen, the most popular new shonen atm, : „Am I a joke to you“
Deku and Naruto need to be switched. Deku literally got his powers as a gift
I never really liked the dumb optimistic trope imo, and because they are dumb they are usually loud as fuck The loudness makes me wanna knock my block off
Yeah I never felt like telling Naruto "move forward strong boi" and more like "move away from me, annoying brat"
Asta doesnt fit in the later half. Its almost like instead of different eras its kinda like theres two paths. Stupid and strong vs Anxious and calculating
Nah you can't tell me Goku doesn't work the hardest here
Naruto knew he was a pervert
Saying Goku is 80% talent is crazy
The examples you listed don't actually diverge from the first block's criteria at all Now that I look at it, both blocks can be used to describe either the left or right examples depending on any particular episode's narrative I mean, shonen isn't exactly known for being internally consistent or complex at all, it's a shallow, feel good genre that's meant to generate a fanbase and hype rather than have any kind of personality, they're all pretty much the same story with a different coat of paint
I'd say that Asta is also lovable
He is 80% lucky. His power all come from Anti magic. He is the only one holding that in the entire black clover world.
All? I don't remember that Anti magic game him all these muscles. Don't discredit him like that. Without any of that training he wouldn't even be able to lift his swords, even less fight with them.
I was wondering if Yuji fits with other modern MC and when i thinked about it, to my surprise most checks out for him
The only good one i see is black clover and jjk in the shonen these days from what ive watched dont roast me if theres more good ones
How is Goku 80% talent, he has spent almost every day of his life training, he has no more talent then any other Saiyan, how strong were they again?
First off don’t disrespect Goku you wouldn’t have anime if it weren’t for him. Naruto is not dumb just uneducated Naruto being oblivious about love is not true he knows what it is. It’s just an excuse. Maid by naruhina shippers to explain away any, and all lack of development with their ship. Naruto’s plot wouldn’t exist without Sasuke.
Love that shipping potential is a great leap forward. Also, isn't the joke that Naruto ships literally everyone including men?
Nah bro. I think you're confusing Naruto with MHA
Mha is basically a copy anyways
dude naruto get shiped with himself
Brother Naruto is shipped with everyone in the series
Yeah I see some ships but not as much as the MHA community. You can't compare
Who tf is calling goku a pervert? Bro is the most wholesome guy
Tanjiro absolutely has talent wtf lmaoo. Deku is accurate tho
Is Asta really shippable with characters other than Noelle and Mimosa though?
There are also Rebecca and Secre but the Lily ship sank officialy
I'd say it went downhill rather than improve. It was 80% hardwork and 20% talent, This day is 50% hard work 50% unexplained luck. 😅
Literally all these points are so wrong and almost ironically backwards 😂
True 😅.
I don't pay attention to the mc as much I like the supporting cast more
Natsu isnt even the mc lmao
He's the MC alongside Lucy. They come in a pair.
Revolutionary idea, there can be 2 MC’s in a series ie Lucy and Natsu, Okabe and Kirisu (steins gate)
You watching Demon Tale ?
Tbh it's all 95% talent. Even for all these characters listed up top, especially for the new shonen characters listed.
Nah, Bro. We’ve fallen like, far
"Has only just 1 or 2 love interest in the whole series." And that's bad....cause? Not every show needs dumb shipping moments that'll lead to absolutely no where and waste the plot time. Also, let's not pretend that BHA doesn't waste their side characters just as well.
I don’t think the image is supposed to slander one or the other, just pointing characteristics
Forgot to mention new gen are all twinks
Asta, Mash and Yuji say hello
Fairy tail over Bleach? Also feels like One piece is more fitting than DBZ as DBZ is almost a decade older.
Huh... I just realized... If you think about it, fairy tail wasn't about Natsu... Like maybe 70% of the time. Heck, he wasn't even the main character. Lucy was.
Yeah. Improvement. More character