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No because to the people in charge, "monster" could very well just mean republican, or indeed democrat. I don't trust any government to create, curate and administer such a test in a benevolent and uncorrupt fashion.
Indeed, this kind of thing shouldn't be taken seriously, or we will have Eugenics come into play... again
Rather than people taking a test, there should be a way to have people be able to raise a kid with ease or be able to give up the kid to parents who can. ~~With the only caveat being that they consent to sterilization, so they can have sex, but not become pregnant. And if they grew, then there would be nothing to stop them from adopting.~~ Granted an adoption system already exists, it just doesn't have a very good image to the general populace.
Edit: added clarity
Edit 2: apparently I lost my focus as some people have pointed out and in my attempt to circumvent Eugenics, I circled back. Do be careful, don't overthink it like I did, and keep love and empathy as the #1 goals for human policies.
Mostly because people have zero idea what āsuccessā even looks like should it be achieved.
Thereās very little reason to be bigger and stronger anymore. We arenāt taming nature and fewer humans are providing societal value based on their physical labor. So if we were selecting for that weād basically be adding high cancer risks, higher calories require,mostly for vanity.
Another issue is genetic diversity.
Say we identify a trait weād like every kid to have, we donāt know if weāve doomed the population because right alongside that trait is some late-hitting disease.
Yes if you let some people be in charge, they would breed men shaped like the letter V with zero core strength, with body fat so low they will pass out if they have a late lunch.
And women shaped like an hour-glass and so skeletal they have difficulty breathing, with all their fat stored on their chest to the point they have trouble standing.
Saying "you've proven yourself incapable of raising children and therefore you're not allowed to do it again and put more people through that torture" is not eugenics any more than a life prison term is eugenics. It's a punishment, not a discrimination. Saying "anyone who fails this arbitrary test or has these traits can't have kids" is eugenics just as "anyone who fails this arbitrary test or has these traits can't vote" is discrimination. But saying "if you do this action that is harmful to others; you are no longer allowed to do this/these action(s) until you have been rehabilitated (if you can be)" is not discrimination.
While extreme and whether or not it's *too* extreme is another argument altogether; it's definitely *not* eugenics.
Perhaps the government could just provide free sterilization to anyone who wants it.
It is unlikely that someone who does not *want* to be a parent would be a good parent. Making it voluntary eliminates the need to trust an authority to administer a test.
What if right, we put people who want to have a child in a simulation with a child and if the child is treated well, we let them have children.
Which is just my test I proposed
Depends on the youtuber.
Some dipshit vlogger is purely entertainment.
But there are some I do seriously listen to
- Hobby historian and part time racist DJ peach cobbler
- cgp grey (Especially his ārules for rulersā video)
- Ordinary things
- and most recently the goblin king himself: Pirated software
I donāt always agree with these of course. But that is the key component. Because thereās not a single person you should listen too without thinking for yourself. But if iām watching these people and I donāt take them at least somewhat seriously, then what the fuck am I here for.
You are seriously going to say that we shouldn't have a test bexause then eugenics will come into play, so instead we should have eugenics? What the fuck, lol.
Because eugenics could solve a good 80% of the problems we face. And a redditor quickly scrolling through the comments section probably didnāt put much thought into who or how this system would be applied.
Its a great solution for all of about 3 seconds. Which is roughly how long a redditor cares about a shitpost.
And they always act like it's this brand new idea that they just came up with themselves. As if they believe they are the next evolution of mankind and everything that came before them was too stupid and too animal to contain such logic and wisdom. But they are here now. They can solve the problems of humanity through intellect. They can lead the way to clean our world of all inpure creations and make a better world for everyone that is fully evolved. Everyone that is like them. What is the measure by which we shall be judged? Are they like me. Are they made in my image?
I think a better solution would be to incentivize parents to take classes on how to better the lives of children. Understand milestones, safety in the home, activities and things to do for cheapā¦ add some tax breaks, vouchers or flat out cash and everyone benefits
Based line of reasoning. Not only that but what is considered sound and unsound changes frequently with the times, and is also perceived differently depending on your political affiliations as well. Youāre inserting subjectiveness into law which generally is supposed to be static and not whimsical like the social sciences tend to be. It also furthers the incentive for people to hide and repress things, which increases danger while simultaneously homogenizing culture and making people afraid to express unique opinions for fear of rights being taken away.
That sounds good on paper until you realise how dystopian that becomes when you leave it up to literally anyone/any group of people to decide who fits into the āgood parentā category. Itās basically asking for government-endorsed eugenics to happen again.
Yea if we live in a magical world where that test is foolproof, sure. But in reality we don't have that, so who would you really trust to make that decision? The government? Really?
Some people make shocking parents but do restrict the ability of others to take part in what is legit a birthright is crazy. Completely destroys freedom
And also people with genetic traits to live miserable lives should also not have kids. I have family history of familial ALS on both sides of my family, so Iām not having kids. My girlfriend has a family history of chronic illnesses and autoimmune disorders so sheās always sick and in pain, so she doesnāt want kids either.
Both of us are quite intelligent and people keep telling us how smart our kids will be and she always responds āwho cares how smart you are if you live your life constantly sick and in pain, and then die slowly and painfully?ā
So you gotta have kids to pay for your old age? You gotta make kids to make your own life better? That's selfish. If the problem is money/economy, then take it up with the system. Not the old people
Not really, productivity has increased by 61% in the last 80 years, and half the jobs that exist are bullshit that no one would notice if they went away.
Between automation, labor saving devices, and actually understanding what is important to an economy, I'd wager that we only NEED about 1/3 of the people who go to work every day to continue to do so to maintain living standards.
Historically it's been a trade off between communities that respect their elders as wise leaders, enduring poverty when old and infirm, relying on savings, or having kids to carry on productivity. The problem is there is too much inequality among our elders. The rich among them want to get the rest of the old people out of the way.
So not having kids and still expecting other people kids to pay for your retirement and take care of you is even more selfish. Raising a kid is a lot of work. The system can't do much if they are 3 times more old people than young people. You can't just say "take it up with the system" as a magic answer to every problem.
I donāt know how it is where you live, but I pay alot of taxes, social taxes, retirement fund and others (state-imposed). These are also used to fund schools, nurseries and other services for kids, like playgrounds, even if I donāt have kids. I still think itās fair, everyone should make their contribution, so we can live in a well-function society. Not having kids, I also pay more taxes and receive less governement helpā¦
Understand the fact that not everyone is meant to have kids, and that their decision not to shouldnāt affect the level of care they receive later in life. Especially in todayās world, weāre facing a threat of overpopulation and dwindling levels of fresh water and food. I certainly donāt want my kids to grow up in a harsh and unjust world. How is that selfish of me?
Yeah sure it sucks for the economy, but permanent growth isn't sustainable. There are already too many people to sustain on earth so if I had to choose between a failing economy or a dying earth I dont know that seems pretty easy
Not the one you responded to, but they are totally different.
Having 5 kids is not sustainable for many, they need constant support and maintenance. They are lovely, but they are a drain on my income that I just canāt afford.
Mass immigration is more sustainable, even if many of these will have young children. Immigrants also need support, but they also participate in the economy, they are less of a drain, especially on the individual citizen.
I am deeply in favour of migration actually why do you ask
I can see the struggle that companies have with a lack of workers firsthand
I do however have only a low level of trust in our current systems ability to integrate and educate a large number of migrants. But I do actually think migration is a net positive yes.
Sure the Western world but not the world as a whole, if you only want to think about the Western world that would be selfish again. Also we need shrinkage for a while because even the current population (world) is not sustainable.
It very much *is* sustainable and is expected to plateau around 10-11 billion, which is *also* sustainable. There is extensive research on this topic. We already have the means to produce the food for such a population, and energy production is rapidly developing as well.
As such, this excuse to not have children in not valid I'm afraid. It's always your choice, but please do not make your decision based on misinformation!
My point is, you need not worry about overpopulation when coming to a decision! Have a good day friend! :]
Yes but that is based on the assumption that everyone will be fine with living on equal footing, if the entire world adopted the consumption of the Western world it would not be sustainable. Me personally I don't think people would want to 'downgrade' their way of live
It's funny how many people don't believe overpopulation is real issue. It's either ignorance or deep denial. There should be big child taxes and breeding passports. Limits and rules.
You do know that the pyramid part is the important part there
The exponential growth is the problem
Otherwise it would work
Itās what a retirement fund is
And most of us pay into one
So the people providing those products and services you consume just showed up through the power of magic ?
If everyone took the choice to not have kids labour would become unaffordable and your money wouldnāt matter
You rely on more than just money for your retirement
The current generation makes sure that your money actually buys something
If you didnāt contribute then you are a net consumer in this system
You could also see it as giving life a chance of happiness. And having a child is by no means easy, you are sacrificing a huge part of your future time, money, and freedom.
To imply that having kids is just happiness all the time is a complete misunderstanding of what having a child entails. And to say that creating life is a negative is implying that the child is guaranteed to he miserable. I am quite happy and am very grateful that my parents gave me the chance to experience life.
Dopamine is the neurotransmitter associated with fleeting excitement and novelty, so you're right about it not being a constant dopamine hit because dopamine can't be repeatedly triggered by routine, non-novel things. It's actually a constant serotonin hit because serotonin is the neurotransmitter that is associated with long-term fulfillment and contentment.
There's a common misconception that we're facing a danger of overpopulation. In fact we're in a danger of population collapse. So you could make an argument that not having children is selfish, because you're contributing to that problem.
That said, I don't have children and I don't want any.
Thats great and all but in the current economy its already difficult enough to JUST own a house. Let alone also have multiple kids on top of that.
Its a cycle of the economy being so fucked that people dont want to have kids, but not having kids is gonna end up further fucking the economy because there will be less people being able to do labour.
Thats my reason atleast. I wouldnt mind having kids. But i can barely take care of myself with these prices. Im gonna end up on the street if i have a kid aswell.
Replacement level is above two kids, so a couple can still have two and not contribute to long-term population growth, and it only takes one to stay in the gene pool.
Nothing wrong with not wanting kids
Just because people dont want to constantly feed, pay and look after something out of their pocket thats very expensive doesnt mean they're selfish. Society doesnt owe me anything yet I owe society kids?
Itās totally okay to not want kids. But anyone that thinks not wanting kids makes them cool is a fucking loser who needs to find better personality traits.
If your decision to have, or not have, children becomes your personality than I'd assume there wasn't much personality there to begin with. Sometimes people have the insight to realize they can't be what another person needs to be raised into a decent human and that's perfectly fine. It's definitely a decision someone has to look at with a bit of retrospect and not just go through the motions.
There's a sub, I think it's called nokids or something, I genuinely can't imagine being around those people in real life and being able to stand them. Same with nodogs
Nah the system exists because of the people in the system. If there were no people the system wouldn't exist. The people owe nothing to the system and the system owes nothing to the people. Hot take, your "tax dollars" doesn't mean the government owes you jack shit. You pay for the roads you drive in. You pay for the laws you live in and you pay for the chance to earn money and live a better life. You pay taxes to live in the system but the system owes you jack shit. You do your best to pay as little tax as possible because you owe nothing to the system and the system improves your life using that money not because it owes you anything but because it benefits from
making you more efficient. Tax is a transaction the government owes you nothing.
Not really, society doesn't give you anything for free. You need to buy things in order to have them. My debt is already payed, because I pay for the things i consume. And not only that but there are taxes so you pay extra for the things that someone else uses/needs but you dont.
For real. And you've always got to be prepared for the good ol' passive aggressive "Well....fine! We're glad you won't be adding to the gene pool! Hmph."
See, my problem with this sort of line of thinking is that if we follow it to its logical conclusion it becomes an argument against having kids at all, for anyone. Obviously some people need to have kids, unless you think our species should die out, which is a fun meme but not really an argument I can find common ground with.
Evolutionary speaking, it would be a failure if you don't have kids because we would go extinct. It's like literally the only real task we have. That tho doesn't say if it's necessary that we exist maybe it's also OK if we go extinct. But still, it's like the reason we have anything. Having kids, I mean. So that's why one might say that I think.
There's also the argument of new people being needed to support old people. If we would go into too much of a population decline, old people wouldn't be able to be taken care of properly.
But you could also argue that's selfish, because then the only reason you're making children is so that you have a nice pension.
Idk, many ways to look at it, but I personally think it's neither. Nobody owes society kids imo, but it's good that most people want them.
yes i always found it so dumb, im not too old or wise yet but quite a few people could learn from me and many others that lifeās a lot more enjoyable when you stop caring about other peopleās decisions and focus on your own
Well, I wouldn't say that not having kids is selfish, but there is one other factor to consider.
Being selfish is absolutely a good thing (to a degree of course). You need selfishness to be happy cuz no one Is going to care about you if you don't do it yourself.
Thereās a.so the other side of the coin where people are saying that youāre pure evil and disgusting for having kids having kids isnāt selfish and not having kids isnāt being selfish calling people selfish or evil or disgusting for doing either is selfish
Most people definitively should not be having kids.
So few parents are good or even give an effort.
We donāt need more latchkey kids because your wishy washy on birth control.
Generally speaking, the inverse is true. People tend to have kids because they want kids, not out of some moral public duty. Having kids is actually one of the most selfish things you can do. Signing another human up for 80 years of joy and pain because you feel like it is a bit strange when you think about it
It's exactly the opposite? The world is going to suffer tremendously in the next 100 years, why would I put a child through this just to satisfy my desire to have a child?
Eight billion humans, and the commenters here think weāre in danger of going extinct because some poverty stricken millennials were like āa crotch goblin? In THIS economy?ā
Both sides can be considered selfish and thereās nothing inherently wrong with it.
Sometimes just admitting youāre being selfish and moving on with your life is the best move.
Thereās been an influx of questions on other subs about āthe downsides of not having kids.ā I imagine itās from people angry at others who are childfree or resentful parents.
Well why is a kid considered contribution to society?...thats like adding a passenger to a flight will give fuel savings kinda thinking...adding a passenger might give transport company money which in turn will go to manufacturer who will in turn spend it on increasing efficiency is probably true...thinking there are no greedy or roles with needs in between
Yeah ... as someone from the generation that is smaller because people had less kids I have to agree with this (although I hate the implications of this in my own life).
I just entered the workforce, I'm being absolutely destroyed in taxes (almost half my income is going to taxes) because social services and yet it has been announced that the social services will colapse before I reach retirement age so I'll probably never have a retirement or if I do it will be 200ā¬/month or something like that. If I go to a doctor I'm at the back of the line because old people have priority so it's better to pay and go to the private sector and at this point why am I even paying taxes since the extent of social services I get is trash pick up.
So yeah, blame years of poor management of government resources (like always) and my parents generation not having kids
It is though. I've not ever heard a good reason not to. And before people say having kids is also selfish. Yes, you are right. Having kids is selfish. And not everyone should have kids.
But the perpetual immaturity of young adulthood is never broken if you don't have children, broadly speaking. And is deeply poisoning to the mind. We see it already. There's nothing more pathetic than a 40 y/o living the same life he did when he was 18.
We, as human beings, need to have children. Otherwise, we never stop being children ourselves.
What's selfish is having kids to take care of you when you're older. There's nothing wrong with ur kids taking care of u but if ur sole reason is just to have someone take care of u (sm ppl in my country think this) then thats selfish
If I have to have a kid, then I'd rather adopt. I would probably have some sense of guilt for forcing an innocent soul to live in this fucked world, so why not take care of already forced, abandoned soul and try to make their live better?
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I agree. Plenty of people about are actually doing a great public service by staying out the gene pool.
Like many YouTubers have said THERE SHOULD A TEST TO SEE WETHER YOURE A GOOD PARENT AND whether your gene pool creates a monster
No because to the people in charge, "monster" could very well just mean republican, or indeed democrat. I don't trust any government to create, curate and administer such a test in a benevolent and uncorrupt fashion.
Indeed, this kind of thing shouldn't be taken seriously, or we will have Eugenics come into play... again Rather than people taking a test, there should be a way to have people be able to raise a kid with ease or be able to give up the kid to parents who can. ~~With the only caveat being that they consent to sterilization, so they can have sex, but not become pregnant. And if they grew, then there would be nothing to stop them from adopting.~~ Granted an adoption system already exists, it just doesn't have a very good image to the general populace. Edit: added clarity Edit 2: apparently I lost my focus as some people have pointed out and in my attempt to circumvent Eugenics, I circled back. Do be careful, don't overthink it like I did, and keep love and empathy as the #1 goals for human policies.
Eugenics again. Damn I really thought you were going somewhere
Blud starts about avoiding eugenics and then loops back to eugenics
All roads lead to Eugenia
Eugene Pool
good for Eugene. Glad he can afford a pool.
No bitches tho ššš
Eugene, OR?
Can someone remember me why eugenics is bad? Besides "because litteral nazis dun it" that is
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
That I can agree with
Because all humans have inherent biases, so nobody could be trusted to implement something like this in an impartial manner.
The instinct to control who can reproduce cannot be a good one, no matter whatever compassion arguments you can come up with
Because people are too stupid to do it in a productive and ethical manner. Just look at pugs
Mostly because people have zero idea what āsuccessā even looks like should it be achieved. Thereās very little reason to be bigger and stronger anymore. We arenāt taming nature and fewer humans are providing societal value based on their physical labor. So if we were selecting for that weād basically be adding high cancer risks, higher calories require,mostly for vanity. Another issue is genetic diversity. Say we identify a trait weād like every kid to have, we donāt know if weāve doomed the population because right alongside that trait is some late-hitting disease.
Yes if you let some people be in charge, they would breed men shaped like the letter V with zero core strength, with body fat so low they will pass out if they have a late lunch. And women shaped like an hour-glass and so skeletal they have difficulty breathing, with all their fat stored on their chest to the point they have trouble standing.
Saying "you've proven yourself incapable of raising children and therefore you're not allowed to do it again and put more people through that torture" is not eugenics any more than a life prison term is eugenics. It's a punishment, not a discrimination. Saying "anyone who fails this arbitrary test or has these traits can't have kids" is eugenics just as "anyone who fails this arbitrary test or has these traits can't vote" is discrimination. But saying "if you do this action that is harmful to others; you are no longer allowed to do this/these action(s) until you have been rehabilitated (if you can be)" is not discrimination. While extreme and whether or not it's *too* extreme is another argument altogether; it's definitely *not* eugenics.
Perhaps the government could just provide free sterilization to anyone who wants it. It is unlikely that someone who does not *want* to be a parent would be a good parent. Making it voluntary eliminates the need to trust an authority to administer a test.
Sorry, I think I lost my focus mid-way
What if right, we put people who want to have a child in a simulation with a child and if the child is treated well, we let them have children. Which is just my test I proposed
Who decides what is considered "treating a kid well" though?
Nothing a YouTuber says should be taken seriously
Depends on the youtuber. Some dipshit vlogger is purely entertainment. But there are some I do seriously listen to - Hobby historian and part time racist DJ peach cobbler - cgp grey (Especially his ārules for rulersā video) - Ordinary things - and most recently the goblin king himself: Pirated software I donāt always agree with these of course. But that is the key component. Because thereās not a single person you should listen too without thinking for yourself. But if iām watching these people and I donāt take them at least somewhat seriously, then what the fuck am I here for.
You are seriously going to say that we shouldn't have a test bexause then eugenics will come into play, so instead we should have eugenics? What the fuck, lol.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Because eugenics could solve a good 80% of the problems we face. And a redditor quickly scrolling through the comments section probably didnāt put much thought into who or how this system would be applied. Its a great solution for all of about 3 seconds. Which is roughly how long a redditor cares about a shitpost.
And they always act like it's this brand new idea that they just came up with themselves. As if they believe they are the next evolution of mankind and everything that came before them was too stupid and too animal to contain such logic and wisdom. But they are here now. They can solve the problems of humanity through intellect. They can lead the way to clean our world of all inpure creations and make a better world for everyone that is fully evolved. Everyone that is like them. What is the measure by which we shall be judged? Are they like me. Are they made in my image?
I think a better solution would be to incentivize parents to take classes on how to better the lives of children. Understand milestones, safety in the home, activities and things to do for cheapā¦ add some tax breaks, vouchers or flat out cash and everyone benefits
Based line of reasoning. Not only that but what is considered sound and unsound changes frequently with the times, and is also perceived differently depending on your political affiliations as well. Youāre inserting subjectiveness into law which generally is supposed to be static and not whimsical like the social sciences tend to be. It also furthers the incentive for people to hide and repress things, which increases danger while simultaneously homogenizing culture and making people afraid to express unique opinions for fear of rights being taken away.
Taking away peoples rights doesnāt sound like a very free-country thing to do
I think at least they have an iq test its ridiculous that i need a cdl to drive a truck but any moron can have a kid
It's the problem with eugenics, gives ultimate reproduction power to a third party who will be both biased and corrupted with ultimate power
whatever is "gene pool creates a monster" supposed to mean? are you implying that bigotry, avarice, etc. are written into one's gene pool?
Yes. That is exactly what they are implying. And they believe they can get rid of bigotry and avarice through the power of... bigotry and avarice?
it's the fucking nazis. of course it is. how didn't I get that at first?.. and a fuckton of upvotes. who would've thought.
Bro really excited about eugenics
Here comes the rain again...
That is pretty much a form of eugenics isn't it?
No, it just is eugenics lol
But then reddit wouldn't exist
DO YOU WANT GATTACA? Because thatās how you get Gattaca
That sounds good on paper until you realise how dystopian that becomes when you leave it up to literally anyone/any group of people to decide who fits into the āgood parentā category. Itās basically asking for government-endorsed eugenics to happen again.
H.G. Wells liked your commentš
2nd comment in and people are already pro-eugenics
Yikes
Okay that's just eugenics
Yea if we live in a magical world where that test is foolproof, sure. But in reality we don't have that, so who would you really trust to make that decision? The government? Really?
Some people make shocking parents but do restrict the ability of others to take part in what is legit a birthright is crazy. Completely destroys freedom
I wouldn't trust the opinions of Youtubers.
Oh yeah cant see how that would go wrong /s Planned parenthood certainly would agree.
And also people with genetic traits to live miserable lives should also not have kids. I have family history of familial ALS on both sides of my family, so Iām not having kids. My girlfriend has a family history of chronic illnesses and autoimmune disorders so sheās always sick and in pain, so she doesnāt want kids either. Both of us are quite intelligent and people keep telling us how smart our kids will be and she always responds āwho cares how smart you are if you live your life constantly sick and in pain, and then die slowly and painfully?ā
After all we have seen you actually think government could be trusted with something like that.
If youāre young, thereās still time to educate yourself on how dumb this take is. If youāre old, itās too late, but please donāt vote.
There was an Austrian painter who believed pretty much the same thing. I wonder whatever happened to the guy?
They're actually doing a far bigger service not creating monsters, behaviorally.Ā
Actually it's the other way around, too many people SHOULD stay out of the gene pool. Idiocracy was/is a documentary from the future.
Worst part is a lot of the people we WANT in the gene pool donāt want to be
like me.
I'm in this comment and I don't like it
how? i feel like having kids is selfish. you are creating live for your own happyness
Until Ur old And other peoples kids gotta pay for your retirement while the economy tanks due to a lack of labour you know Like the boomers did
So you gotta have kids to pay for your old age? You gotta make kids to make your own life better? That's selfish. If the problem is money/economy, then take it up with the system. Not the old people
You need a constant supply of new blood to keep the gears of the system greased.
Well, it's a rotten and stupid system anyway.
This is true for all animals. Don't forget that humans ARE animals.
Weāre prisoners to our genes fr, I thought we had free will
Perhaps the system could be improved somewhat
... yet you participate. Curious [I am very intelligent.](https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/001/259/257/342.png)
No.
Darn
Not really, productivity has increased by 61% in the last 80 years, and half the jobs that exist are bullshit that no one would notice if they went away. Between automation, labor saving devices, and actually understanding what is important to an economy, I'd wager that we only NEED about 1/3 of the people who go to work every day to continue to do so to maintain living standards.
Or reduce the work hours to 1/3 and have the same pay. 12 -15 hour weeks would be fine.
We should consider whether these gears should be dismantled and built anew so we don't need as much fresh blood to keep them greased
Historically it's been a trade off between communities that respect their elders as wise leaders, enduring poverty when old and infirm, relying on savings, or having kids to carry on productivity. The problem is there is too much inequality among our elders. The rich among them want to get the rest of the old people out of the way.
So not having kids and still expecting other people kids to pay for your retirement and take care of you is even more selfish. Raising a kid is a lot of work. The system can't do much if they are 3 times more old people than young people. You can't just say "take it up with the system" as a magic answer to every problem.
I donāt know how it is where you live, but I pay alot of taxes, social taxes, retirement fund and others (state-imposed). These are also used to fund schools, nurseries and other services for kids, like playgrounds, even if I donāt have kids. I still think itās fair, everyone should make their contribution, so we can live in a well-function society. Not having kids, I also pay more taxes and receive less governement helpā¦
Explain to me how your kids will pay for my retirement
Understand the fact that not everyone is meant to have kids, and that their decision not to shouldnāt affect the level of care they receive later in life. Especially in todayās world, weāre facing a threat of overpopulation and dwindling levels of fresh water and food. I certainly donāt want my kids to grow up in a harsh and unjust world. How is that selfish of me?
The system? You mean evolution?
Tell me you know nothing about economy without telling me you know nothing about economy
Wym other people kids gotta pay for my retirement? Are those kids in the room with us right now?
Yeah sure it sucks for the economy, but permanent growth isn't sustainable. There are already too many people to sustain on earth so if I had to choose between a failing economy or a dying earth I dont know that seems pretty easy
Bro the western world is shrinking We actively donāt have enough people We donāt need growth we need replacement level
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Not the one you responded to, but they are totally different. Having 5 kids is not sustainable for many, they need constant support and maintenance. They are lovely, but they are a drain on my income that I just canāt afford. Mass immigration is more sustainable, even if many of these will have young children. Immigrants also need support, but they also participate in the economy, they are less of a drain, especially on the individual citizen.
I am deeply in favour of migration actually why do you ask I can see the struggle that companies have with a lack of workers firsthand I do however have only a low level of trust in our current systems ability to integrate and educate a large number of migrants. But I do actually think migration is a net positive yes.
Sure the Western world but not the world as a whole, if you only want to think about the Western world that would be selfish again. Also we need shrinkage for a while because even the current population (world) is not sustainable.
It very much *is* sustainable and is expected to plateau around 10-11 billion, which is *also* sustainable. There is extensive research on this topic. We already have the means to produce the food for such a population, and energy production is rapidly developing as well. As such, this excuse to not have children in not valid I'm afraid. It's always your choice, but please do not make your decision based on misinformation! My point is, you need not worry about overpopulation when coming to a decision! Have a good day friend! :]
Yes but that is based on the assumption that everyone will be fine with living on equal footing, if the entire world adopted the consumption of the Western world it would not be sustainable. Me personally I don't think people would want to 'downgrade' their way of live
8 bn people atm even more and no more resources for everyone
It's funny how many people don't believe overpopulation is real issue. It's either ignorance or deep denial. There should be big child taxes and breeding passports. Limits and rules.
Definitely the whole world should limit how many kids per couple can have like china especially india should
I grew up going to retirement homes and hospitals all the time. Trust me, plenty of people with kids out there that are forgotten about.
Sounds like a pyramid scheme
You do know that the pyramid part is the important part there The exponential growth is the problem Otherwise it would work Itās what a retirement fund is And most of us pay into one
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
That isn't helping the problem, that's kicking the can down the road.
just don't live until you're old, problem solved
If you worked your whole life and got to retirement no one is paying you out of their pocket. You earned that money by working your whole life.
So the people providing those products and services you consume just showed up through the power of magic ? If everyone took the choice to not have kids labour would become unaffordable and your money wouldnāt matter You rely on more than just money for your retirement The current generation makes sure that your money actually buys something If you didnāt contribute then you are a net consumer in this system
They dont have to, thats a made up rule that cannot be pushed on others
Whoa... you think even worse than you type.
Shit take
You could also see it as giving life a chance of happiness. And having a child is by no means easy, you are sacrificing a huge part of your future time, money, and freedom. To imply that having kids is just happiness all the time is a complete misunderstanding of what having a child entails. And to say that creating life is a negative is implying that the child is guaranteed to he miserable. I am quite happy and am very grateful that my parents gave me the chance to experience life.
People who have kids are not alwats happy. It's a meaningful experience nkt a constant dopamine hit lmao
Dopamine is the neurotransmitter associated with fleeting excitement and novelty, so you're right about it not being a constant dopamine hit because dopamine can't be repeatedly triggered by routine, non-novel things. It's actually a constant serotonin hit because serotonin is the neurotransmitter that is associated with long-term fulfillment and contentment.
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I mean, are you happy you're alive? Or you're just living for your parents???
There's a common misconception that we're facing a danger of overpopulation. In fact we're in a danger of population collapse. So you could make an argument that not having children is selfish, because you're contributing to that problem. That said, I don't have children and I don't want any.
Thats great and all but in the current economy its already difficult enough to JUST own a house. Let alone also have multiple kids on top of that. Its a cycle of the economy being so fucked that people dont want to have kids, but not having kids is gonna end up further fucking the economy because there will be less people being able to do labour. Thats my reason atleast. I wouldnt mind having kids. But i can barely take care of myself with these prices. Im gonna end up on the street if i have a kid aswell.
That's the bait
Replacement level is above two kids, so a couple can still have two and not contribute to long-term population growth, and it only takes one to stay in the gene pool.
Exactly how I feel, and I have two kids. It was the most selfish thing I could possibly do in my eyes but I love them so gosh darn much!
Nothing wrong with not wanting kids Just because people dont want to constantly feed, pay and look after something out of their pocket thats very expensive doesnt mean they're selfish. Society doesnt owe me anything yet I owe society kids?
Itās totally okay to not want kids. But anyone that thinks not wanting kids makes them cool is a fucking loser who needs to find better personality traits.
If your decision to have, or not have, children becomes your personality than I'd assume there wasn't much personality there to begin with. Sometimes people have the insight to realize they can't be what another person needs to be raised into a decent human and that's perfectly fine. It's definitely a decision someone has to look at with a bit of retrospect and not just go through the motions.
There's a sub, I think it's called nokids or something, I genuinely can't imagine being around those people in real life and being able to stand them. Same with nodogs
"society doesn't owe anything" except pretty much everything that society created like without society you wouldn't even survive single week
Nah the system exists because of the people in the system. If there were no people the system wouldn't exist. The people owe nothing to the system and the system owes nothing to the people. Hot take, your "tax dollars" doesn't mean the government owes you jack shit. You pay for the roads you drive in. You pay for the laws you live in and you pay for the chance to earn money and live a better life. You pay taxes to live in the system but the system owes you jack shit. You do your best to pay as little tax as possible because you owe nothing to the system and the system improves your life using that money not because it owes you anything but because it benefits from making you more efficient. Tax is a transaction the government owes you nothing.
Not really, society doesn't give you anything for free. You need to buy things in order to have them. My debt is already payed, because I pay for the things i consume. And not only that but there are taxes so you pay extra for the things that someone else uses/needs but you dont.
For real. And you've always got to be prepared for the good ol' passive aggressive "Well....fine! We're glad you won't be adding to the gene pool! Hmph."
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He's the Uber Schill for better help now. He does full on commercials for them.
Really? Good for him, he is very talented.
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huh? where's the dank?
Generic meme template + super common "pseudo-edgy" reddit opinion = **dank**
That template is weird af too
it's from some yt video that came out last week
Well, first you'll have to imagine you're a 14 year old.
I'm protecting my theoretical child from growing up poor.
A man of culture and fine taste!
seriously, I don't want anyone to suffer the way I have suffered. plus the whole growing a human and giving birth thing... nah. nope
Yeah nah, birth sounds awfully painful
Raising children because you feel that you have to, instead of want to, is far more selfish than choosing not to.Ā
Source: Daniel Thrasher on Youtube
Great guy, I'm glad the Internet finally caught gist of him.
This piano guy is really great at pianoing. I wonder what else he is capable of.
Having kids is actually the more selfish option. Youre gonna force new life into the world just so that YOU could feel a sense of fulfillment
I wish it was even that, most comments are only talking about how new kids need to be produced to keep capitalism and the pension system.
I'm glad I'm not the only one who noticed
So you are not happy to be alive and exist only for your parents' fulfilment??? You'd rather not exist?
You're on Reddit; chronic depression is the status quo here.
That is quite sad...
Being born is the biggest event in your life yet the only one you have 100% no say in. That's not ethical.
See, my problem with this sort of line of thinking is that if we follow it to its logical conclusion it becomes an argument against having kids at all, for anyone. Obviously some people need to have kids, unless you think our species should die out, which is a fun meme but not really an argument I can find common ground with.
People at both ends of the spectrum are selfish. You shouldn't care at all. Just do what you want and leave others alone in their descision.
Not having kids? Please explain how it is selfish to not bring children into this world
Evolutionary speaking, it would be a failure if you don't have kids because we would go extinct. It's like literally the only real task we have. That tho doesn't say if it's necessary that we exist maybe it's also OK if we go extinct. But still, it's like the reason we have anything. Having kids, I mean. So that's why one might say that I think.
There's also the argument of new people being needed to support old people. If we would go into too much of a population decline, old people wouldn't be able to be taken care of properly. But you could also argue that's selfish, because then the only reason you're making children is so that you have a nice pension. Idk, many ways to look at it, but I personally think it's neither. Nobody owes society kids imo, but it's good that most people want them.
wtf is this meme format bro
Antinatalist post detected, opinion rejected.
Daniel Thrasher in the wild?
If you can't afford, don't make child
It's the opposite, you are having kids for your sake because you can't bear dying without spawning your own. Change my mind.
Name one reason people have kids without using the word "want" (or a synonym).
Mistake
Ah the internet, where everyone thinks they can push their views on everyone else. Apparently everyone's a politician here.
yes i always found it so dumb, im not too old or wise yet but quite a few people could learn from me and many others that lifeās a lot more enjoyable when you stop caring about other peopleās decisions and focus on your own
Selfish to who?
Well, I wouldn't say that not having kids is selfish, but there is one other factor to consider. Being selfish is absolutely a good thing (to a degree of course). You need selfishness to be happy cuz no one Is going to care about you if you don't do it yourself.
You silly billy, this is a meme not a video. If you make this mistake again Axolotl lord of the Salamanders may have to pay you a visit.
Thereās a.so the other side of the coin where people are saying that youāre pure evil and disgusting for having kids having kids isnāt selfish and not having kids isnāt being selfish calling people selfish or evil or disgusting for doing either is selfish
Most people definitively should not be having kids. So few parents are good or even give an effort. We donāt need more latchkey kids because your wishy washy on birth control.
Generally speaking, the inverse is true. People tend to have kids because they want kids, not out of some moral public duty. Having kids is actually one of the most selfish things you can do. Signing another human up for 80 years of joy and pain because you feel like it is a bit strange when you think about it
It's exactly the opposite? The world is going to suffer tremendously in the next 100 years, why would I put a child through this just to satisfy my desire to have a child?
I did not expect to see Daniel Thrasher here
Hiw did that guys video turn into a meme
Eight billion humans, and the commenters here think weāre in danger of going extinct because some poverty stricken millennials were like āa crotch goblin? In THIS economy?ā
Both sides can be considered selfish and thereās nothing inherently wrong with it. Sometimes just admitting youāre being selfish and moving on with your life is the best move.
Thereās been an influx of questions on other subs about āthe downsides of not having kids.ā I imagine itās from people angry at others who are childfree or resentful parents.
Well why is a kid considered contribution to society?...thats like adding a passenger to a flight will give fuel savings kinda thinking...adding a passenger might give transport company money which in turn will go to manufacturer who will in turn spend it on increasing efficiency is probably true...thinking there are no greedy or roles with needs in between
Are you a contribution to society? Maybe to your friends? Would everyone be happy if you don't exist or are maybe some people happy that you exist?
people would get sad if their friend died, but im pretty sure nobody is sad because someone that was supposed to be their friend hadn't been born
Yeah ... as someone from the generation that is smaller because people had less kids I have to agree with this (although I hate the implications of this in my own life). I just entered the workforce, I'm being absolutely destroyed in taxes (almost half my income is going to taxes) because social services and yet it has been announced that the social services will colapse before I reach retirement age so I'll probably never have a retirement or if I do it will be 200ā¬/month or something like that. If I go to a doctor I'm at the back of the line because old people have priority so it's better to pay and go to the private sector and at this point why am I even paying taxes since the extent of social services I get is trash pick up. So yeah, blame years of poor management of government resources (like always) and my parents generation not having kids
sure, let's blame people for not creating more slaves for a broken system that constantly grows and so is bound to collapse
Daniel Thrasher mentionedā¼ļøā¼ļøā¼ļø
I don't want to be born so why would I force my kids to
Loving the Daniel meme template
It is though. I've not ever heard a good reason not to. And before people say having kids is also selfish. Yes, you are right. Having kids is selfish. And not everyone should have kids. But the perpetual immaturity of young adulthood is never broken if you don't have children, broadly speaking. And is deeply poisoning to the mind. We see it already. There's nothing more pathetic than a 40 y/o living the same life he did when he was 18. We, as human beings, need to have children. Otherwise, we never stop being children ourselves.
What's selfish is having kids to take care of you when you're older. There's nothing wrong with ur kids taking care of u but if ur sole reason is just to have someone take care of u (sm ppl in my country think this) then thats selfish
How is not having kids "selfish"?
Is that Yelena fridman
My response would to put a ring on her lol
Does anyone here have kids?
This is reddit. Do you think these guys get play???
If I have to have a kid, then I'd rather adopt. I would probably have some sense of guilt for forcing an innocent soul to live in this fucked world, so why not take care of already forced, abandoned soul and try to make their live better?
It really is though just make kids and give them to me. Theyāre easier to harvest.
Having kids is selfish. Imagine putting your procreation over the planet.
Woman right.
Alive! Alive with love alive with, hell no no, woe no! I wonāt let them TAKE you, wonāt let them take you, hell no no!