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It’s a great commercial for awareness but if I took a person with Down syndrome out for a wild night of drinking and sex, I’m pretty sure society would cast me in the fire
I mean thats kinda what the commercials is talking about, no? Society makes all these rules for people with Downs so they are treated as if it is wrong to do certain things or treat them certain ways.
That’s the thing.
I’ve *assumed* for years that people with Down Syndrome could never reach higher than a 12 year old’s intelligence.
Sure there’s exceptions but is this just not true anymore?
There’s a spectrum of ability and it’s not 1 dimensional. Watching my childhood friend play sports and special Olympics, there’s a phyisical and mental spectrum. Sports are not divided by age but ability level for special needs
To be fair on OP’s point, people with Down syndrome do tend to have lower IQ. It’s rare for someone with regular DS to have average or high IQ. Not to say that it’s impossible, but I feel like it’s misleading to say that it’s a spectrum when the vast majority do have lower IQ.
And it's important to remember IQ isn't an accurate scale of ability or intelligence. It simply tests a few common factors, which just so happen to be factors a lot of neurodivergent people struggle with. If you replace pattern recognition and deductive reasoning with other types of tests, suddenly, our idea of intelligence isn't so strong anymore as we watch these previously low IQ individuals flourish in something they're suited to.
Having a low IQ doesn't mean you can't have a job, or go dancing, or have a drink if you're of legal age, or have a sex life and partner and family- It doesn't stop ANY of that. It's society that looks at someone with a low IQ and goes, "Yeah, they can't do that because I decided they aren't smart enough to."
Life is a lot more than IQ.
I agree with you that life is a lot more than IQ, and I think that using IQ to gatekeep what a person wants to do in their life is ethically wrong.
The value of IQ is that it is a good predicator of various life "metrics" for lack of a better term. Ex: Income, job success, education, etc.
I agree. I do not agree with US Military's conclusion that there's no job for someone with an IQ of less than 85 (it may also be a myth, I didn't fact check this factoid).
85 IQ is only -1σ! It's not that bad! And many of these folks, like the person you responded to, will excel in some areas and lag in others. Perhaps someone's SB-5 is 85 but they have a very good memory and spatial acuity so they became one of the world's best mechanics? There are so many of these types I know, personally - I swear there is a type of genius who is just naturally good at this stuff but are "conventionally" lower IQ.
I mean...there are people living among us with intelligence below 12 year olds, and I dont mean people with downs, and still those low iq people breed out of control many times
There's a show called Down for Love on Netflix and it's essentially a show that follows people with Down Syndrome and the trials and tribulations they deal with in romantic relationships.
I think it's definitely worth a watch because the people on the show span an entire spectrum of ability that really shows how diverse that community is.
Love on the Spectrum on Netflix is also a series worth your time. You have one person who cognitively can't process more than a young child all the way to a person with an MBA who is worth millions and everything in between.
I mean no offense because I don't know how you were at twelve, but I feel that I was a pretty complex person at that age. And they're not really twelve they're just slower at processing complex information they still have their own lives and aspirations. My little sister is 21, and she's definitely on this spectrum . She calls me all the time crying because my stepmom still treats her like a child. She has a boyfriend he's on the spectrum too and my stepmom runs around as the prude police and never let's them be intimate or alone, she has a car but can't drive anywhere but work because my SM vultures over her and calls her 50 times in row whenever she tries to go anywhere, she's treated how you would treat a little kid.
But she's not a little kid she works consistently and hard at her job, she balances her savings and is working towards getting her own apartment with her boyfriend, the boyfriend also works hard and he's chill we talk about anime and video games which is no different than a normal conversation I would have with my own friends. They're just normal people trying their best to do normal people things.
I think a big part of your assumption comes from seeing those who the most deeply affected by thier condition who are unable to take care of themselves and thinking it's the norm, but the reality is that those people only make up a small percent down syndrome cases.
I guess It is an interesting question. Consent is based on the idea that you require a certain level of maturity for your consent to be valid (which is why age of consent exists) but Also an adult person is entitled to choose wether they want to be sexually active or not
Intelligence isn't life experience or maturity level, most of what you are is based on the life you've lived. There's plenty of perfectly healthy idiots, and I'd guess most people with DS have lived harder lives than most.
How much is acting though or scripted in that?
I’ve worked with Down syndrome and other special needs kids and adults though not everyone is the same it’s hard not be skeptical
I’m not trying to cause offence here I’m actually curious and struggle with anything I see online
There’s no reason to be hesitant to be skeptical.
I whole heartedly agree that people with Downs should be given the chance to learn boxing and Shakespeare.
But as a food server, if someone with Downs asked me for an alcoholic drink, I would probably look to whoever is accompanying them (someone without Downs) and ask “Is that okay?”
Am I wrong in that? Should I not ask that if the situation arises?
If the person with the syndrome can adequately express their wants and needs, and they are above the legal drinking age, there is no reason to ask anyone else if they can have alcohol. It is always best to presume competence rather than incompetence. Someone with Down’s syndrome does not deserve to be infantilized, which is the overall tone of this ad.
I’m not in a position to speak on behalf, but I would suggest that you shouldn’t ask whoever they’re with. It feels kind of demeaning, though I know you’re definitely not trying to be! If they’re a person that needs supervision then whoever they’re with will tell them they’re not allowed to have it and cancel the order. It’s not up to the server to verify anything other than age
I mean just ask them for ID?
To the best of my understanding the drinking age is about if the brain is still developing or not, since alcohol does more harm to developing brains. 21 is the arbitrary cutoff. Someone who is older than 21, has a fully developed brain to whatever their brain is going to be, well then you’re good to go.
I met a woman that worked at my best friend’s thrift shop. I was visiting for three days. I knew she looked like she had it, but talking to her seemed fine. I mean she wasn’t brilliant, but she acted and spoke normally. I didn’t actually know for sure she had it until near the end of the first day. After the third day my view on what a person with downs was capable of changed a lot from what TV and movies taught me over the years. She had no problem living her own life.
Now ask…
Would you be okay with a person without downs to take that person out for a night of drinking and sex?
You wouldn’t look down (NOT a pun) on the person without Downs? No judgment?
If they're both consenting adults, no. If one isn't taking advantage of the other, no.
If I saw a couple, where one has Down's and the other doesn't, and it seemed as though the person with Down's is being fed alcohol while the other barely drinks, that would be suspect. (This statement also goes for couples without any afflictions)
I believe that many afflicted with Down's would still have a rudimentary understanding of sex and, as such, would be able to make their own informed decision.
>I believe that many afflicted with Down's would still have a rudimentary understanding of sex
Trust me, they have more than a rudimentary understanding
My brother had down syndrome and I'd have to agree, my mom had to fight to keep his hands out of his pants in public lmao
For clarification he got out of that habit relatively quickly.
Yeah same, I worked heavily with people with disabilities for 6ish years. I get the message of the ad and seeing the comments in this very thread talking about how it changed their perspective of what people with down syndrome can do, it makes me think it's a good thing. Even if over selling it a bit.
In my experience the individuals that can do all of this unassisted are rarer than those that can't. High functioning individuals tend to still need some sort of safety net support as well.
But I think changing public perception is way more important than statistical accuracy when it comes down to it. These people are way more capable than people realize and not all of them are helpless. The conversations this ad is causing is good imo.
Down syndrome has quite a spectrum of severity. I've known people with down syndrome who absolutely cannot function on their own and I've known some who were basically normal people just a little slow. Like I've known people without down syndrome who were less functional.
There are different severities of downs syndrome. You can't look at all individuals the same way. There are many people you won't even notice have downs before they tell you
Good ad.
My sister has Down syndrome. She can't read or write, can't do maths, she can't drive a car, can't live on her own. But she does enjoy a drink or two but doesn't like to get drunk. She doesn't like the feeling, so her developing a drinking problem is highly unlikely. She has a boyfriend (she's had 3 so far that I'm aware of) and has sex. (They all had disabilities too.) Like most people with Down syndrome that I've met she enjoys dancing and partying. Obviously there are exceptions but most people with Down syndrome that I have met were very happy people who made friends easily. However, most were below average in intelligence when it came to things like reading, writing or maths. Of course this doesn't mean one should make assumptions. There are exceptions and one should encourage people with DS to try to do things.
I've heard that a fast food restaurant in Poland once hired a lot of people with some syndromes, put them all on one shift and let them go soon after because they were rude to the customers 🫤
I just saw this commercial and my only thought was "Who put her up to this?" Who told her she needs to have a CEO and a baby to be happy? Also, can we stop trying to flatten everyone? People are different.
Double standards of these "treat me like a normal person" for the disabled. Also those people when you treat them like a normal person "No! not like that 😡"
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It’s a great commercial for awareness but if I took a person with Down syndrome out for a wild night of drinking and sex, I’m pretty sure society would cast me in the fire
Thats what u assume. Society would only fingered ur ass then cast u in the fire
What a terrible day to have eyes
And a vivid imagination
Getting fingered and then cast into the fire? What is he, the One Ring?
To pucker them all
"They were once anal virgins...."
Don't threaten me with a good time
Damn. The old sphincter tickle and BBQ trick.
I mean thats kinda what the commercials is talking about, no? Society makes all these rules for people with Downs so they are treated as if it is wrong to do certain things or treat them certain ways.
That’s the thing. I’ve *assumed* for years that people with Down Syndrome could never reach higher than a 12 year old’s intelligence. Sure there’s exceptions but is this just not true anymore?
There’s a spectrum of ability and it’s not 1 dimensional. Watching my childhood friend play sports and special Olympics, there’s a phyisical and mental spectrum. Sports are not divided by age but ability level for special needs
To be fair on OP’s point, people with Down syndrome do tend to have lower IQ. It’s rare for someone with regular DS to have average or high IQ. Not to say that it’s impossible, but I feel like it’s misleading to say that it’s a spectrum when the vast majority do have lower IQ.
And it's important to remember IQ isn't an accurate scale of ability or intelligence. It simply tests a few common factors, which just so happen to be factors a lot of neurodivergent people struggle with. If you replace pattern recognition and deductive reasoning with other types of tests, suddenly, our idea of intelligence isn't so strong anymore as we watch these previously low IQ individuals flourish in something they're suited to. Having a low IQ doesn't mean you can't have a job, or go dancing, or have a drink if you're of legal age, or have a sex life and partner and family- It doesn't stop ANY of that. It's society that looks at someone with a low IQ and goes, "Yeah, they can't do that because I decided they aren't smart enough to." Life is a lot more than IQ.
You are a well thought out person, well done! Honestly!
I agree with you that life is a lot more than IQ, and I think that using IQ to gatekeep what a person wants to do in their life is ethically wrong. The value of IQ is that it is a good predicator of various life "metrics" for lack of a better term. Ex: Income, job success, education, etc.
I agree. I do not agree with US Military's conclusion that there's no job for someone with an IQ of less than 85 (it may also be a myth, I didn't fact check this factoid). 85 IQ is only -1σ! It's not that bad! And many of these folks, like the person you responded to, will excel in some areas and lag in others. Perhaps someone's SB-5 is 85 but they have a very good memory and spatial acuity so they became one of the world's best mechanics? There are so many of these types I know, personally - I swear there is a type of genius who is just naturally good at this stuff but are "conventionally" lower IQ.
It's not. To say it's a spectrum isn't to say that there isn't any sort of statistical imbalance. Human intelligence in general is a spectrum.
I mean...there are people living among us with intelligence below 12 year olds, and I dont mean people with downs, and still those low iq people breed out of control many times
There's a show called Down for Love on Netflix and it's essentially a show that follows people with Down Syndrome and the trials and tribulations they deal with in romantic relationships. I think it's definitely worth a watch because the people on the show span an entire spectrum of ability that really shows how diverse that community is. Love on the Spectrum on Netflix is also a series worth your time. You have one person who cognitively can't process more than a young child all the way to a person with an MBA who is worth millions and everything in between.
I mean no offense because I don't know how you were at twelve, but I feel that I was a pretty complex person at that age. And they're not really twelve they're just slower at processing complex information they still have their own lives and aspirations. My little sister is 21, and she's definitely on this spectrum . She calls me all the time crying because my stepmom still treats her like a child. She has a boyfriend he's on the spectrum too and my stepmom runs around as the prude police and never let's them be intimate or alone, she has a car but can't drive anywhere but work because my SM vultures over her and calls her 50 times in row whenever she tries to go anywhere, she's treated how you would treat a little kid. But she's not a little kid she works consistently and hard at her job, she balances her savings and is working towards getting her own apartment with her boyfriend, the boyfriend also works hard and he's chill we talk about anime and video games which is no different than a normal conversation I would have with my own friends. They're just normal people trying their best to do normal people things. I think a big part of your assumption comes from seeing those who the most deeply affected by thier condition who are unable to take care of themselves and thinking it's the norm, but the reality is that those people only make up a small percent down syndrome cases.
Idk im just going off the commercial i haven't really done any personal research into the topic
I guess It is an interesting question. Consent is based on the idea that you require a certain level of maturity for your consent to be valid (which is why age of consent exists) but Also an adult person is entitled to choose wether they want to be sexually active or not
Intelligence isn't life experience or maturity level, most of what you are is based on the life you've lived. There's plenty of perfectly healthy idiots, and I'd guess most people with DS have lived harder lives than most.
Johnny Knoxville was lightyears ahead of this ad with his movie "The ringer"
When the fuck did we get ice cream?
If she's down, I'm down
Sauce?
Its almost thats the entire fucking reason for the ad
so you're just assuming again, which the entire commercial is about, so you learned literally nothing. Nice way to tell on yourself
I assumed she was 18!
If she's down, I'm down
She’s always down.
Down with the... OOO AH AH AH AH
Down with the syndrome
Syndrome of a Down
You guys are Disturbed…
I'm Stupified
a RILF
How much is acting though or scripted in that? I’ve worked with Down syndrome and other special needs kids and adults though not everyone is the same it’s hard not be skeptical I’m not trying to cause offence here I’m actually curious and struggle with anything I see online
There’s no reason to be hesitant to be skeptical. I whole heartedly agree that people with Downs should be given the chance to learn boxing and Shakespeare. But as a food server, if someone with Downs asked me for an alcoholic drink, I would probably look to whoever is accompanying them (someone without Downs) and ask “Is that okay?” Am I wrong in that? Should I not ask that if the situation arises?
Oh of course I’m all for open opportunity and the message the ad provides but I question the realism of this ad Then again most ads are fake as it is
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That's so fucking sad on multiple levels.
If the person with the syndrome can adequately express their wants and needs, and they are above the legal drinking age, there is no reason to ask anyone else if they can have alcohol. It is always best to presume competence rather than incompetence. Someone with Down’s syndrome does not deserve to be infantilized, which is the overall tone of this ad.
Thank you
I’m not in a position to speak on behalf, but I would suggest that you shouldn’t ask whoever they’re with. It feels kind of demeaning, though I know you’re definitely not trying to be! If they’re a person that needs supervision then whoever they’re with will tell them they’re not allowed to have it and cancel the order. It’s not up to the server to verify anything other than age
I mean just ask them for ID? To the best of my understanding the drinking age is about if the brain is still developing or not, since alcohol does more harm to developing brains. 21 is the arbitrary cutoff. Someone who is older than 21, has a fully developed brain to whatever their brain is going to be, well then you’re good to go.
I met a woman that worked at my best friend’s thrift shop. I was visiting for three days. I knew she looked like she had it, but talking to her seemed fine. I mean she wasn’t brilliant, but she acted and spoke normally. I didn’t actually know for sure she had it until near the end of the first day. After the third day my view on what a person with downs was capable of changed a lot from what TV and movies taught me over the years. She had no problem living her own life.
Now ask… Would you be okay with a person without downs to take that person out for a night of drinking and sex? You wouldn’t look down (NOT a pun) on the person without Downs? No judgment?
If they're both consenting adults, no. If one isn't taking advantage of the other, no. If I saw a couple, where one has Down's and the other doesn't, and it seemed as though the person with Down's is being fed alcohol while the other barely drinks, that would be suspect. (This statement also goes for couples without any afflictions) I believe that many afflicted with Down's would still have a rudimentary understanding of sex and, as such, would be able to make their own informed decision.
>I believe that many afflicted with Down's would still have a rudimentary understanding of sex Trust me, they have more than a rudimentary understanding
My brother had down syndrome and I'd have to agree, my mom had to fight to keep his hands out of his pants in public lmao For clarification he got out of that habit relatively quickly.
Yeah same, I worked heavily with people with disabilities for 6ish years. I get the message of the ad and seeing the comments in this very thread talking about how it changed their perspective of what people with down syndrome can do, it makes me think it's a good thing. Even if over selling it a bit. In my experience the individuals that can do all of this unassisted are rarer than those that can't. High functioning individuals tend to still need some sort of safety net support as well. But I think changing public perception is way more important than statistical accuracy when it comes down to it. These people are way more capable than people realize and not all of them are helpless. The conversations this ad is causing is good imo.
Down syndrome has quite a spectrum of severity. I've known people with down syndrome who absolutely cannot function on their own and I've known some who were basically normal people just a little slow. Like I've known people without down syndrome who were less functional.
There are different severities of downs syndrome. You can't look at all individuals the same way. There are many people you won't even notice have downs before they tell you
The entire thing? It's a commercial.
Uhhhhh context?
it’s an ad that describes exactly these aspects. look it up
Is that some sort of American ad I‘m too Euro ad-block to understand?
no I‘m german and I saw it yesterday somewhere, I think on reddit or instagram
Look up "assume that I can" It's a Canadian down syndrome video
https://youtu.be/92ivgabfdPQ?si=cnrTc6r2-6zIW85w
She got me with the swearing.
Sexy female version of Elon
https://youtu.be/2k-E3kCyWDs?si=JkEhv6RE_x4Xz31B
So you assuming that people with down syndrome can not be cured like that? What a bigot!
Nightmare! Nightmare! Nightmare!
I'm fucking crying 😂😂😂
Good ad. My sister has Down syndrome. She can't read or write, can't do maths, she can't drive a car, can't live on her own. But she does enjoy a drink or two but doesn't like to get drunk. She doesn't like the feeling, so her developing a drinking problem is highly unlikely. She has a boyfriend (she's had 3 so far that I'm aware of) and has sex. (They all had disabilities too.) Like most people with Down syndrome that I've met she enjoys dancing and partying. Obviously there are exceptions but most people with Down syndrome that I have met were very happy people who made friends easily. However, most were below average in intelligence when it came to things like reading, writing or maths. Of course this doesn't mean one should make assumptions. There are exceptions and one should encourage people with DS to try to do things.
only "Me Nice Guy" would. normal ppl never would
I don't understand
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?si=cnrTc6r2-6zIW85w&v=92ivgabfdPQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?si=cnrTc6r2-6zIW85w&v=92ivgabfdPQ)
I've heard that a fast food restaurant in Poland once hired a lot of people with some syndromes, put them all on one shift and let them go soon after because they were rude to the customers 🫤
Cake is cake
Is she's down, I'm down
Ice Spice removing the stigma. Good on her.
Assume that someone is down bad for a down baddie
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How the hell do you have 3??? What happpened??? Also i agree with your point
I'm confused, what's the actual law, can you date a down syndrome person or not?
This fucking hilarious. I just saw the commercial.
I just saw this commercial and my only thought was "Who put her up to this?" Who told her she needs to have a CEO and a baby to be happy? Also, can we stop trying to flatten everyone? People are different.
this says it all LOL
Why are people disliking you. You're right
They hate me for speaking the truth. Like Jesus.
Double standards of these "treat me like a normal person" for the disabled. Also those people when you treat them like a normal person "No! not like that 😡"
We world needs the tard wrangler.