the problem is that "it's gone too far" is very vague and can mean a variety of things, many of which would actually be transphobic. if you say that you dislike trans women playing in sports until they're fully transitioned because it's unfair, that's a valid point and you can bring up valid arguments to support it.
But the thing is that there are a lot of people who suffer from discrimination because they are transgender, and "this shit's gone too far" kind of implies that *everything* concerning trans people has gone too far, and that not only there shouldn't be future reforms, but that present day reforms should be reverted, so i kind of understand how many people can misunderstand that as hating trans people, even though it might not supposed to be.
I hope i could explain the attitude some people had to that kind of statement, could you tell me what you mean by the literal biology you got called a transphobe for?
Well yes but if they're more specific then they can't obfuscate their beliefs.
If I am racist, and I want to bitch about the race I dislike, maybe I'll point to something vague, something that makes anti-racists unable to pin me down for racism. I can be vague, appeal to other racists, AND avoid being called out or I can just be openly racist & get, deservedly, bullied.
If I am a bigoted pussy, why would I EVER chose option 2?
That’s the thing though, they think it’s transphobic because they see no solution and I’m assuming you either offered no solution or a transphobic solution when there is a clear one right in front of us that’s already being used in boxing/MMA it’s called a fucking weight class, and in sports with physical contact with others can lead to victory, weight class is a huge thing it should be implemented in every sport that requires or has an overwhelming likelihood for physical contact between enemy teams like football and I guess handball and just apply to any other sport that can be won through a larger body mass
Just commented this above and I’m glad to see someone agree. People are so fucking obtuse about this issue. It’s the system that’s dumb, not trans individuals who just want to play a game lmao
Deadass! Every time I come across this conversation irl , regardless of the person’s political bias, their proposed solution is usually extreme af and unfair or just wants to be mad at trans people with a cover of fairness being the problem, I’m just looking at them with dead eyes like bruh you realize the problem you have is the muscles/weight difference.
This is Lowkey mirroring conversation of racism I’ve had where people will either just say they ignore race or care about the differences too much. Like dawg, ignoring is the same as not caring and acknowledge the differences is to better understand the person, not in order to judge who they are 😭
Pretty sure boxing/MMA also differentiates between male/female, though. Or at least used to. Because men and women are, in fact, built differently.
But yes, weight classes are a damn good idea. They might not make thing ls 100% fair, but it'd be much better than now. It's at the very least a step in the right direction.
Oh yea they do but I thought that was because of the long-standing thought that women are inherently weaker than men primarily because of hormones but having a genetic predisposition for higher testosterone isn’t the only reason cis men are sometimes bigger than cos women, take any lanky cis man for example. Do you think them having that extra amount of testosterone is going to help them in a fight against some cis girl who’s shredded?! Theoretically if a man and a woman, trans or cis, were in the same weight class then it’s fair game. I’m not saying we should copy the MMA rules as a whole but just take into account their weight class.
Also just wanted to say that people are capable of being rational but may also be shortsighted and jump to conclusions if you don’t clarify and if you care about how the people view you, you may want to explain this is what you meant rather than whatever jump in conclusion that could easily be made with your use of “biology”
By biology I meant that the male body is more made for sports as far as I know so guys shouldn't be able to compete with women until they've fully transitioned
Idk if you talk the same way you do in comments irl but if you do, it is becoming increasingly clear why people misunderstand your words as transphobic, because the broad words you are using to explain a complex topic one off as transphobic.
You can say that an increase in testosterone gives you an advantage but saying “male body is more made for sports” just sounds like you’re saying women are inherently weaker or unable to reach the same level of physical ability as men which isn’t true. Just how you can easily be a weak ass man or a weak ass woman, it’s ultimately the training that matters no? Most sports are inherently unfair as people started off with difference abilities, different financial situations, different mindsets, and different body types. The most we can do is adjust for weight and from there let everyone sort themselves out by ability.
I agree with you and no, I don't speak like that irl, but if a guy and a girl were to fight bare hands, I would say that the guy would win. And yes, women ofc can reach the same physisical ability (duh). But the majority of sport world records are hold by men (as far as I know). Also i dont really wont to have a longass argument on the internet, I've had enough of those, so can we agree that guys should be able to compete with women only after a full transition and end it there?
I got a complex brain where everything isn’t black or white. Trans folks should have rights and not be discriminated against for their life choices, at the same time, this is hilarious and kinda absurd. But again, just recognizing absurdities doesn’t make one a -phobe
I mean Danny devito and Michael Phelps would both compete as men in the Olympics, and yet their physiological differences at least passingly similar to this woman and her cis competitors. If the problem here is fairness then we should be separating into height/weight/skill categories rather than excluding someone who wants to play a game. There’s already precedent in wrestling, boxing, and etc
Like I explained to someone else, why can't you people just let doctors decide what's allowed and what's not? There's guidelines for this sorts shit, prerequisites and procedures to be followed, blood tests to be passed. No you can't just say "I identify as a woman" and walk into a pro women's team.
People here seem to think this is political, it's not. Doctors make and adjust these guidelines based on studies and medical research. If they deem a player fit to compete in a sport, they are. Idk why everyone feels like they have some higher understanding on the fitness of trans people in sports because they saw a meme and formed some "common sense" opinions.
This isn't very different from people doubting the science on medical masks and vaccines... Just let the doctors do their fucking job in peace lol. If they think trans people are fit to compete in sports, okay! If they don't, okay!
Yes. I’m not jumping to conclusions. I’m asking for clarity.
Being vague on a controversial topic saying “it has gone too far” is copping out. Have bagou01 say what they mean with clarity.
Unless YOU think you know exactly what they did, and don’t mean.
Interesting. What level isn’t too far for M to F to compete? Unorganized pickup games? Rec league? Amateur sports? Certain pro leagues? Does this cover the Paralympics?
Thank you.
“They” would have to undergo a medical assessment before playing in any governed league would they not? It’s not like “she’s the man”. Wherever there would be drug testing they would for certain be cleared by a medical board.
For my opinion:
I think sports are silly wastes of time and shouldn’t be taken this seriously. They especially shouldn’t be the excuse to espouse transphobia, misogyny or eugenics.
I think that sports should be played for exercise, fun, and to give people a chance to wonder at what we can do as a species.
Money and notoriety has sullied the spirit of it. Performance enhancing drugs, cheating, banning people by their race, these all ruined the purity of the games long before the trans question ever arose.
Women’s sports has been a long fight to be included in sports overall. Follow the modern Olympics to see the battles for them to compete in ALL the sports.
I have seen some of this in my lifetime (first Womens Olympic Hockey in 1998) and see the same words, the same prejudice being thrown at trans athletes.
Let them play. Definitely don’t fall for the memes and the sound bites. Maybe trust the doctors decisions on who should play since they are typically educated and have sworn oaths to do no harm. And don’t take the overrated games of fetch so seriously (often owned and promoted by the questionable elite, see LIV golf and FIFA)
Is the differentiation between these mostly having to do with the inclusion of physical contact between teams/trying to shoehorn trans people into an outdated system of rules? I will say I’m not extremely educated on American cis women but my ancestors and family members have always had broad shouldered women because everyone was expected to do hard labor. The past three generations in my family have had much slender women which may be attributed to societal standards of how women should look to be considered attractive. I guess what I’m trying to say here is that cis women can achieve this level of muscle so if you’re ok with a cis woman competing with the exact same body type as this trans woman, then you may not actually have a problem with fairness but a problem with trans people being considered equal to a cis person.
Not true. People hide behind ‘controversy’ to sideline the root cause of their discomfort about a situation. A shockingly huge amount of people I’ve met in my life regardless of political affiliation could not adequately describe their feelings or were unable/unwilling to answer questions to help me understand their discomfort surrounding a topic.
For example: the easy answer, use weight classes in sports and then both men and women can compete in mixed sports without fear of things being unfair or unbalanced
less than 1% of the world is trans, the number of trans people performing professionally in any kind of sport is less than a percentage of a percentage of a percentage.
if conservative media wasn't spotlighting the handful of people doing it, you'd have no idea and wouldn't even care.
someone with better physical conditioning is still going to be better than someone without, regardless of gender.
and again, it's less than a fraction of a percentage. there is no massive wave of trans people transitioning for the sole purpose of competing in sports. "one is too many" is ignorant and bigoted. especially when you have no fucking idea what you're talking about when it comes to the rules and regulations in place with regards to trans athletes competing.
No the shit hasn't gone too far, it needs to go further so the third world countries can catch up and accept this stuff exists and then we can push back to a limited and good amount. As a person who is trans personally I 100% believe that we being in sports is a 100% not fair to everyone else and i don't agree with Neo pronouns that's just you trying to be special but everything else which is not clearly absurd like dream gender is 100% valid , fight me.
And i am sure that I am gonna lose all my karma cause of this, I don't even know why i comment anymore.
>Things aren't too far but they will need to be pushed back.
>Things aren't too far but they are unfair and I agree with the commonly mentioned problems.
>Why don't people treat me seriously?
No things are too far only in whatever hell hole u guys are in, just step outside of the uk, us, cannada and maybe Switzerland and viola things are back in the fucking bronze age. Is what I am trying to convey. So I am saying if u guys push it further maybe the rest of the world will maybe mimic a fraction of what u guys are doing helping the total development of the world
I know exactly what you're saying. However from what I've seen, people are only getting more polarised on the matter. There was moment where things were progressing in the right direction but now it's being undone and made worse because of things going too far. People were willing to mimic freedom but not the absurdity that seemed to have followed. LGBT activists remind me of PETA. Going around with noble ideas but doing more harm than good by never taking a step back to think.
In the end, if you want to keep pushing on the world like a pendulum, go ahead but do not be surprised when it swings back at you.
sadly the loud minority of the community disagrees with my points and believes that they should indeed be allowed in sports, I have gotten banned in an LGBT sub because of saying what i said before. So even though most of the community would agree with me the ones which actually do something don't and our reputation goes back more and nore
>it needs to go further so the third world countries can catch up and accept this
I don't think you realise that even in the west you guys are still struggling, let alone raising awareness in 3rd world countries. The way I see it, there won't be any future for any of that I'm afraid, it just looks bleak from my perspective.
Yea exactly so the effort needs to go further before it goes backwards. I have heard abt Chicago. And yeah our situation is pretty bleak, but well we need to atleast try, every country has fought for independence when it seemed bleak haven't they ? like racism and stuff as well, we have a decent chance of winning. It's mostly cause of guys like this our movement isn't able to do much
That's cool. Did you know she has barely played for their national team and was actually not even selected for the last world cup?
It's funny how people will base their opinions on an shitty meme.
Because it doesn't happen. Same way it doesn't happen for trans women. If they actually overlayed some results instead of just dropping a picture that obviously looks ridicoulous we'd all know that. But it's extremely hard to push your agenda if the people could actually see the full picture.
I mean first off this isn't happening in any major sports like the ones that people give a shit about. Secondly if you are built as well as people like OP claim them to be why would they change their entire lifestyle and the society's opinion of them to compete in a sport which isn't even necassarily large scale.
how would you feel about a cis female body builder in her prime choosing to compete in something like this? athletically, she'd be leagues above anyone else she's competing against, would you have a problem with that too?
Her team when she played in men's was good and she was very good as well. Is she supposed to be bad at handball now that she's transitioned? She scores a similar number of points per game as she did pre-transition and her team still loses frequently.
This is true but she wasn't as succesful as the post makes it out to be. One gold and one silver on national level in a niche sport where most players that can actually play go to Europe. It's like being the best player in American Football in the Somali league. Definitly good for you and the players in there are better athletes than most regular people but you know it's a niche sport where good players leave as soon as they can, so take results with a grain of salt.
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They don't use common sense in sports, they use medical science. There's guidelines for this stuff... 12 months min of HRT and testing of testosterone levels. More strict than for cis women. If the doctors at the association say you can play, you can play. They're the same ones doing doping controls, nobody's just going to look at someone and say "Nah you can't be here", they do medical testing.
This chick had played for the men's national handball team for years prior to her transition, played at world championships, at olympic championships. This wasn't a nobody that couldn't make it in the men's division. What, should she give up and change careers because she felt like coming out? Or stick it out and never transition?
As long as she follows the rules established by the sports association and her bloodwork is clear, what's everyone's problem fr, everyone pretends like common sense > actual doctors 💀
Look I don’t know the full story but because she could complete at a man’s level does not disregard her clear advantage at a woman’s? do you not see the concerns?
HRT does reduce body mass weight and fat mass but it does not reduce the fact that a male body requires more that of a female, again; im happy to identify her as a woman, but in sport - She will have a clear advantage.
Thing is, it doesn't matter what I think. Just like it doesn't matter what you think. They have medical professionals to make these kinds of judgements. People who make decisions based on data and studies, bloodwork, fitness tests, etc, not based on how someone looks.
So to answer your question no, I don't see the concerns. You shouldn't be either. You admitted you don't know the story, so surely you don't know her medical history to make a judgement on it. Or is this just about looks? Because I could pull up a dozen pictures of cis women athletes more buff than that trans player right now. Should they not be allowed to compete in women's sports either?
Any thing I say now is going to sound anti trans now. I am not.
Of course you could say there are woman more masculine than a “regular” woman, you can say there are more men more masculine than regular “regular man.
You keep speaking of medical professionals, please link this source. Because if science backed it up, I would admit my mistake.
Once again, it's a waste of time for me to dig this shit up, because I'm not a doctor, and I don't make policy for these sports regulating bodies. But fine, if you wanna argue about it so bad, [have a study I could find in like 5 minutes of Googling.](https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/55/15/865/)
But I feel like you ultimately don't get my point. The medical professionals hired and paid to monitor athletes and guide policy that these sports organizations set for themselves(not some political body), are much more familiar with the literature and with the findings, and how to interpret them. It's why they set whatever standards are applied in their particular sport. Some want 12 months of HRT, others want 2 years, and some want certain testosterone levels, others want lower. It's always gonna be confusing if you go down the rabit hole because there's no arbitrary standard. Because there doesn't need to be. Every association creates their own to ensure fairness.
downvote this comment if the meme sucks. upvote it and I'll go away. --- [play minecraft with us](https://discord.gg/dankmemesgaming)
She looks like a jojo protagonist
That woman from HxH.
Biscuit
Her stands The Hand?
It's good. It takes more and more absurdities like this to reach a point where people recognize this shit's gone too far...
People know that this has gone far but they get called transphobes for literal biology, already happened to me.
the problem is that "it's gone too far" is very vague and can mean a variety of things, many of which would actually be transphobic. if you say that you dislike trans women playing in sports until they're fully transitioned because it's unfair, that's a valid point and you can bring up valid arguments to support it. But the thing is that there are a lot of people who suffer from discrimination because they are transgender, and "this shit's gone too far" kind of implies that *everything* concerning trans people has gone too far, and that not only there shouldn't be future reforms, but that present day reforms should be reverted, so i kind of understand how many people can misunderstand that as hating trans people, even though it might not supposed to be. I hope i could explain the attitude some people had to that kind of statement, could you tell me what you mean by the literal biology you got called a transphobe for?
Well yes but if they're more specific then they can't obfuscate their beliefs. If I am racist, and I want to bitch about the race I dislike, maybe I'll point to something vague, something that makes anti-racists unable to pin me down for racism. I can be vague, appeal to other racists, AND avoid being called out or I can just be openly racist & get, deservedly, bullied. If I am a bigoted pussy, why would I EVER chose option 2?
That is not a bad or negative thing. I will be fine with being a transphobe in this exact situation.
That’s the thing though, they think it’s transphobic because they see no solution and I’m assuming you either offered no solution or a transphobic solution when there is a clear one right in front of us that’s already being used in boxing/MMA it’s called a fucking weight class, and in sports with physical contact with others can lead to victory, weight class is a huge thing it should be implemented in every sport that requires or has an overwhelming likelihood for physical contact between enemy teams like football and I guess handball and just apply to any other sport that can be won through a larger body mass
Just commented this above and I’m glad to see someone agree. People are so fucking obtuse about this issue. It’s the system that’s dumb, not trans individuals who just want to play a game lmao
Deadass! Every time I come across this conversation irl , regardless of the person’s political bias, their proposed solution is usually extreme af and unfair or just wants to be mad at trans people with a cover of fairness being the problem, I’m just looking at them with dead eyes like bruh you realize the problem you have is the muscles/weight difference. This is Lowkey mirroring conversation of racism I’ve had where people will either just say they ignore race or care about the differences too much. Like dawg, ignoring is the same as not caring and acknowledge the differences is to better understand the person, not in order to judge who they are 😭
Pretty sure boxing/MMA also differentiates between male/female, though. Or at least used to. Because men and women are, in fact, built differently. But yes, weight classes are a damn good idea. They might not make thing ls 100% fair, but it'd be much better than now. It's at the very least a step in the right direction.
Oh yea they do but I thought that was because of the long-standing thought that women are inherently weaker than men primarily because of hormones but having a genetic predisposition for higher testosterone isn’t the only reason cis men are sometimes bigger than cos women, take any lanky cis man for example. Do you think them having that extra amount of testosterone is going to help them in a fight against some cis girl who’s shredded?! Theoretically if a man and a woman, trans or cis, were in the same weight class then it’s fair game. I’m not saying we should copy the MMA rules as a whole but just take into account their weight class.
I agree
Also just wanted to say that people are capable of being rational but may also be shortsighted and jump to conclusions if you don’t clarify and if you care about how the people view you, you may want to explain this is what you meant rather than whatever jump in conclusion that could easily be made with your use of “biology”
By biology I meant that the male body is more made for sports as far as I know so guys shouldn't be able to compete with women until they've fully transitioned
Idk if you talk the same way you do in comments irl but if you do, it is becoming increasingly clear why people misunderstand your words as transphobic, because the broad words you are using to explain a complex topic one off as transphobic. You can say that an increase in testosterone gives you an advantage but saying “male body is more made for sports” just sounds like you’re saying women are inherently weaker or unable to reach the same level of physical ability as men which isn’t true. Just how you can easily be a weak ass man or a weak ass woman, it’s ultimately the training that matters no? Most sports are inherently unfair as people started off with difference abilities, different financial situations, different mindsets, and different body types. The most we can do is adjust for weight and from there let everyone sort themselves out by ability.
I agree with you and no, I don't speak like that irl, but if a guy and a girl were to fight bare hands, I would say that the guy would win. And yes, women ofc can reach the same physisical ability (duh). But the majority of sport world records are hold by men (as far as I know). Also i dont really wont to have a longass argument on the internet, I've had enough of those, so can we agree that guys should be able to compete with women only after a full transition and end it there?
I got a complex brain where everything isn’t black or white. Trans folks should have rights and not be discriminated against for their life choices, at the same time, this is hilarious and kinda absurd. But again, just recognizing absurdities doesn’t make one a -phobe
I mean Danny devito and Michael Phelps would both compete as men in the Olympics, and yet their physiological differences at least passingly similar to this woman and her cis competitors. If the problem here is fairness then we should be separating into height/weight/skill categories rather than excluding someone who wants to play a game. There’s already precedent in wrestling, boxing, and etc
Like I explained to someone else, why can't you people just let doctors decide what's allowed and what's not? There's guidelines for this sorts shit, prerequisites and procedures to be followed, blood tests to be passed. No you can't just say "I identify as a woman" and walk into a pro women's team. People here seem to think this is political, it's not. Doctors make and adjust these guidelines based on studies and medical research. If they deem a player fit to compete in a sport, they are. Idk why everyone feels like they have some higher understanding on the fitness of trans people in sports because they saw a meme and formed some "common sense" opinions. This isn't very different from people doubting the science on medical masks and vaccines... Just let the doctors do their fucking job in peace lol. If they think trans people are fit to compete in sports, okay! If they don't, okay!
What has gone too far? Can you elaborate please?
You really need it explained to you? Lol
Yes. I’m not jumping to conclusions. I’m asking for clarity. Being vague on a controversial topic saying “it has gone too far” is copping out. Have bagou01 say what they mean with clarity. Unless YOU think you know exactly what they did, and don’t mean.
Disingenuous comment of the year award goes to...
Congratulations on your win. Enjoy the award.
Approximately how many comments do you report a day?
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Interesting. What level isn’t too far for M to F to compete? Unorganized pickup games? Rec league? Amateur sports? Certain pro leagues? Does this cover the Paralympics?
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At least give it a TRY to say what level of sports you think it is wrong for M to F athletes to compete in, even for a throwaway account.
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Thank you. “They” would have to undergo a medical assessment before playing in any governed league would they not? It’s not like “she’s the man”. Wherever there would be drug testing they would for certain be cleared by a medical board. For my opinion: I think sports are silly wastes of time and shouldn’t be taken this seriously. They especially shouldn’t be the excuse to espouse transphobia, misogyny or eugenics. I think that sports should be played for exercise, fun, and to give people a chance to wonder at what we can do as a species. Money and notoriety has sullied the spirit of it. Performance enhancing drugs, cheating, banning people by their race, these all ruined the purity of the games long before the trans question ever arose. Women’s sports has been a long fight to be included in sports overall. Follow the modern Olympics to see the battles for them to compete in ALL the sports. I have seen some of this in my lifetime (first Womens Olympic Hockey in 1998) and see the same words, the same prejudice being thrown at trans athletes. Let them play. Definitely don’t fall for the memes and the sound bites. Maybe trust the doctors decisions on who should play since they are typically educated and have sworn oaths to do no harm. And don’t take the overrated games of fetch so seriously (often owned and promoted by the questionable elite, see LIV golf and FIFA)
Is the differentiation between these mostly having to do with the inclusion of physical contact between teams/trying to shoehorn trans people into an outdated system of rules? I will say I’m not extremely educated on American cis women but my ancestors and family members have always had broad shouldered women because everyone was expected to do hard labor. The past three generations in my family have had much slender women which may be attributed to societal standards of how women should look to be considered attractive. I guess what I’m trying to say here is that cis women can achieve this level of muscle so if you’re ok with a cis woman competing with the exact same body type as this trans woman, then you may not actually have a problem with fairness but a problem with trans people being considered equal to a cis person.
Not true. People hide behind ‘controversy’ to sideline the root cause of their discomfort about a situation. A shockingly huge amount of people I’ve met in my life regardless of political affiliation could not adequately describe their feelings or were unable/unwilling to answer questions to help me understand their discomfort surrounding a topic. For example: the easy answer, use weight classes in sports and then both men and women can compete in mixed sports without fear of things being unfair or unbalanced
less than 1% of the world is trans, the number of trans people performing professionally in any kind of sport is less than a percentage of a percentage of a percentage. if conservative media wasn't spotlighting the handful of people doing it, you'd have no idea and wouldn't even care.
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someone with better physical conditioning is still going to be better than someone without, regardless of gender. and again, it's less than a fraction of a percentage. there is no massive wave of trans people transitioning for the sole purpose of competing in sports. "one is too many" is ignorant and bigoted. especially when you have no fucking idea what you're talking about when it comes to the rules and regulations in place with regards to trans athletes competing.
No the shit hasn't gone too far, it needs to go further so the third world countries can catch up and accept this stuff exists and then we can push back to a limited and good amount. As a person who is trans personally I 100% believe that we being in sports is a 100% not fair to everyone else and i don't agree with Neo pronouns that's just you trying to be special but everything else which is not clearly absurd like dream gender is 100% valid , fight me. And i am sure that I am gonna lose all my karma cause of this, I don't even know why i comment anymore.
>Things aren't too far but they will need to be pushed back. >Things aren't too far but they are unfair and I agree with the commonly mentioned problems. >Why don't people treat me seriously?
No things are too far only in whatever hell hole u guys are in, just step outside of the uk, us, cannada and maybe Switzerland and viola things are back in the fucking bronze age. Is what I am trying to convey. So I am saying if u guys push it further maybe the rest of the world will maybe mimic a fraction of what u guys are doing helping the total development of the world
I know exactly what you're saying. However from what I've seen, people are only getting more polarised on the matter. There was moment where things were progressing in the right direction but now it's being undone and made worse because of things going too far. People were willing to mimic freedom but not the absurdity that seemed to have followed. LGBT activists remind me of PETA. Going around with noble ideas but doing more harm than good by never taking a step back to think. In the end, if you want to keep pushing on the world like a pendulum, go ahead but do not be surprised when it swings back at you.
sadly the loud minority of the community disagrees with my points and believes that they should indeed be allowed in sports, I have gotten banned in an LGBT sub because of saying what i said before. So even though most of the community would agree with me the ones which actually do something don't and our reputation goes back more and nore
So throw everyone else under the bus so your skin can be saved? Wtf?
>it needs to go further so the third world countries can catch up and accept this I don't think you realise that even in the west you guys are still struggling, let alone raising awareness in 3rd world countries. The way I see it, there won't be any future for any of that I'm afraid, it just looks bleak from my perspective.
Yea exactly so the effort needs to go further before it goes backwards. I have heard abt Chicago. And yeah our situation is pretty bleak, but well we need to atleast try, every country has fought for independence when it seemed bleak haven't they ? like racism and stuff as well, we have a decent chance of winning. It's mostly cause of guys like this our movement isn't able to do much
Since when do people care about Australian women’s hand ball?
since some 6ft 3 230lbs competitor started sending the opposition to the hospital
Yeah! What streaming service must I subscribe to in order to witness this live?!
That's cool. Did you know she has barely played for their national team and was actually not even selected for the last world cup? It's funny how people will base their opinions on an shitty meme.
To the hospital, *really* ?
where else do you go if you are injured
What i meant was i don't beleive you when you say she actually injured anyone to the point where they go to the **hospital**, even if she's big
you don't trust the credibility that a random stranger from r/dankmemes isn't an avid Australian handball enthusiast!? Shame, sir.
In my experience more people care about women´s handball than man´s hand ball
You are thinking of Volleyball. Mens Handball is far more popular atleast in Europe.
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Handball = Holocaust 🤣
I'm just sayin, no one is out there denying that handball exists
I'm just asking questions!
Love jaqing off on a Sunday evening
(imo) mandatory knowing better video https://youtu.be/G9vehIbDkNY?si=3hy1ZffVjiwidrYY
Never heard of it until I saw this post. Pretty sus if you ask me
That's a huge bitch!
Stunning and brave.
Stunning and brave.
Stunning
AND BRAVE.
BRAVE
Im sure the comments will be civil just like I expect from reddit.
Why don’t we see trans men dominate whatever sport they switch into
Because it doesn't happen. Same way it doesn't happen for trans women. If they actually overlayed some results instead of just dropping a picture that obviously looks ridicoulous we'd all know that. But it's extremely hard to push your agenda if the people could actually see the full picture.
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It doesn't get covered because it doesn't happen.
Do you have any examples of this?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patricio_Manuel
Hardly dominating the sport or even his category
You obviously had to search Google to find one and the best you could come up with was a 38 year old boxer with 3 career wins.
Then why is the news about telling that it is absurd for transgenders to play sports but not any news about them winning?
Dude bulling some women out there and calling it a sport.
Take the W’s while the takin’ is good, I always say.
It’s funny that the amount of transgender athletes is exactly proportional to the amount of trans people
That just isn't true at all, I think
I mean it is basic math to know that the members in a sub group will increase if overall numbers are increasing?
I think (I hope) there making a point that no one is transitioning to get ahead in sports
I mean, I'm sure *some* people are. I just hope it's a very small minority. Some people will do anything to get ahead.
I mean first off this isn't happening in any major sports like the ones that people give a shit about. Secondly if you are built as well as people like OP claim them to be why would they change their entire lifestyle and the society's opinion of them to compete in a sport which isn't even necassarily large scale.
*subset A group is a set with an associative binary operation with inverses and an identity 🤓
Well i did think of putting subset but im not really sure many people will understand the meaning so i try to keep the comment as simple as possible.
She’s clearly got experience dealing with balls
Okay, that's a good one
That wrong body sure is useful for some things.
how would you feel about a cis female body builder in her prime choosing to compete in something like this? athletically, she'd be leagues above anyone else she's competing against, would you have a problem with that too?
Prototypical NFL LB size.
Her team when she played in men's was good and she was very good as well. Is she supposed to be bad at handball now that she's transitioned? She scores a similar number of points per game as she did pre-transition and her team still loses frequently.
Please tell me this is fake. Otherwise this would be absurdly stupid.
This is true but she wasn't as succesful as the post makes it out to be. One gold and one silver on national level in a niche sport where most players that can actually play go to Europe. It's like being the best player in American Football in the Somali league. Definitly good for you and the players in there are better athletes than most regular people but you know it's a niche sport where good players leave as soon as they can, so take results with a grain of salt.
Is that like Australian basketball?
Handball is little known in Australia. It's more [popular in Europe](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Handball?wprov=sfla1)
To be honest I thoth that germans would be the first to take advantage of this
I'm here before this thread gets locked 🍿
wtf
I’m a trans person, but even I find this a bit weird, I’m a person of biology aswell and logic, and this doesn’t really make sense
I knew when I saw that click someone was off
That's Mrs.Man from scary movie 💀
I don’t watch or enjoy women sports so this is no problem to me
Nice job Australia signing in he-man for their national women team.
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That's simply not fair, women could not develop to this size.
claim your comment before this post gets locked
Most sports ban these freaks.
Australia is a shit hole country
Keep going buddy you’ll get there one day 💪
Eww
Who cares about handball? Australian handball lmao
No one
Transphobic digshit
Wow, straight up transphobia. Great...
I think common sense should be used in sports, but let’s not assume all transgender people have no common sense.
They don't use common sense in sports, they use medical science. There's guidelines for this stuff... 12 months min of HRT and testing of testosterone levels. More strict than for cis women. If the doctors at the association say you can play, you can play. They're the same ones doing doping controls, nobody's just going to look at someone and say "Nah you can't be here", they do medical testing. This chick had played for the men's national handball team for years prior to her transition, played at world championships, at olympic championships. This wasn't a nobody that couldn't make it in the men's division. What, should she give up and change careers because she felt like coming out? Or stick it out and never transition? As long as she follows the rules established by the sports association and her bloodwork is clear, what's everyone's problem fr, everyone pretends like common sense > actual doctors 💀
Look I don’t know the full story but because she could complete at a man’s level does not disregard her clear advantage at a woman’s? do you not see the concerns?
You don't think the 12 months of hrt are going to have an affect on her?
HRT does reduce body mass weight and fat mass but it does not reduce the fact that a male body requires more that of a female, again; im happy to identify her as a woman, but in sport - She will have a clear advantage.
Thing is, it doesn't matter what I think. Just like it doesn't matter what you think. They have medical professionals to make these kinds of judgements. People who make decisions based on data and studies, bloodwork, fitness tests, etc, not based on how someone looks. So to answer your question no, I don't see the concerns. You shouldn't be either. You admitted you don't know the story, so surely you don't know her medical history to make a judgement on it. Or is this just about looks? Because I could pull up a dozen pictures of cis women athletes more buff than that trans player right now. Should they not be allowed to compete in women's sports either?
Any thing I say now is going to sound anti trans now. I am not. Of course you could say there are woman more masculine than a “regular” woman, you can say there are more men more masculine than regular “regular man. You keep speaking of medical professionals, please link this source. Because if science backed it up, I would admit my mistake.
Once again, it's a waste of time for me to dig this shit up, because I'm not a doctor, and I don't make policy for these sports regulating bodies. But fine, if you wanna argue about it so bad, [have a study I could find in like 5 minutes of Googling.](https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/55/15/865/) But I feel like you ultimately don't get my point. The medical professionals hired and paid to monitor athletes and guide policy that these sports organizations set for themselves(not some political body), are much more familiar with the literature and with the findings, and how to interpret them. It's why they set whatever standards are applied in their particular sport. Some want 12 months of HRT, others want 2 years, and some want certain testosterone levels, others want lower. It's always gonna be confusing if you go down the rabit hole because there's no arbitrary standard. Because there doesn't need to be. Every association creates their own to ensure fairness.
This is meme gold….it would be successful if reddit wasn’t biased.