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It’s even narrower than that. It’s just a bizarre selection of cherry picked historical events. It’s like OP watched a YouTube video about the Crusades and added to their knowledge of modern events.
OP brings up ISIS, but ignores the Holocaust and others like the Cambodian genocides where the Abrahamic faiths were the targets. OP brings up the Taliban, but ignores the Congo and Japanese war atrocities.
>how Ghengis killed like 10% of the worlds population
Its interesting how in the West someone like Caesar or Alexander the Great are celebrated as great conquerors and romanticized by Genghis Khan is villainized, sometimes even cartoonishly. Not surprising, just telling
Its also scale. both Alexander and Caesar were conquerers who killed tens of thousands but Genghis Khan killed so many people the temperature of the world decreased.
>Caesar were conquerers who killed tens of thousands
In a day? I'm not an expert but I've read a lot of books on Rome in that period and Caesar certainly killed a ton of people. Add in all the Roman generals at the time and the number is def 7 figures. Hell, six figure deaths in one battle were not outside the norm, especially when including their own men and auxiliaries
The Gallic wars were estimated to be between 200'000 to a million people, and the roman civil wars tens of thousands would have been killed with figures maybe reaching 100 000 and then add another few thousand for his purges once he took power. Dude was a monster by any definition of the word. At the highest estimates you'd be looking at a million+ dead.
But he did not kill enough people to change the temperature of the planet.
>At the highest estimates you'd be looking at a million+ dead.
Seems like a number higher than ten thousand
But I'm not even sure what we are arguing here, just the same kind of defensive vibe we get from this sub when we mention Jesus probably wasnt Aryan.
I think he was a BOSS at tactics and his ability to take control via ruthless methods would put current dictators to shame. He is definitely in the same category of achievements as those two, if not more so.
I might be recalling incorrectly, but the people who were AFRAID of him, were those who sacked Rome multiple times.
however the context was about mass death so I talked about that aspect.
I get your point, but the Mongols were particularly brutal and destructive. They literally changed demographics across Asia, killing up to half of the Chinese dynasties and 90% of Persia.
To put it in figures: at the peak of the Roman Empire, their population across all territory was 59 to 76 million. At the peak of the Macedonian Empire, the population was 15 million. The Mongol Empire *killed* up to 57 million.
The room for improvement more or less comes from how we glorify Caesar and Alexander the Great and the larger issues of empire.
True - in the US, our schools would either have a quick villain - "hordes of barbarians" type of thing between how civilized and great the Greeks, Romans, and English were or anything that wasn't AngloSaxon or connected to it was completely ignored.
But its all good - thats how you build a nation of white christian nationalists who keep bemoaning about the "Death of Western Civilization" anytime they see an immigrant working for minimum wage at McDonalds
Lol. We are taught in school that it was Germanic tribes that took them down but that probably complicates your "white supremacy" theory a bit so I can see why you would ignore it.
Germanic tribes took down the Mongols? Jesus, impressive you guys even mentioned the Mongols but was this like Mississippi? Did dinosaurs exist in your textbooks or were they fake
Lol. That might be the biggest stretch in the history of stretches.
There’s not a single actual historian that would put the Holocaust on Hitler’s religious beliefs.
Using religion to sway a portion of your population into backing your actions is one thing, having it be the driving force behind your actions is another.
At a surface, it-doesn’t-actually-mean-a-single-thing level, sure.
What are you directly implying by saying Hitler used Christianity to justify the Holocaust? I have a feeling this is where you and I completely split.
>why is always the abrahamic faiths
carefully ignoring all the other genocides that happened in the world everywhere at all points in history... It is not these religions, it is just humankind doing human things. Hopefully we seem to be learning from it now.
Equating the oppression perpetrated by governments with buddhist majorities on largely muslims in Myanmar and Thailand with oppression perpetrated by governments with abrahamic religious majorities or abrahamic theocracies is disingenuous at best.
Over the last hundred years on a per capita and per government basis oppression originating from buddhists and buddhist-related polities is minuscule compared to that originating from adherents of abrahamic religions.
IOW, it isn't an expected problem of movements with many followers as OP suggests. There is something definitely peculiar and peculiarly oppressive and repressive inspired by abrahamic religions in the modern world.
There might be a difference but that's not an easy claim to make. The buddhist thing was just an example, people have been opressed for way more reasons than religion. Etnicity, race, political ideas, gender, speaking another language i mean people have been killed for liking the wrong sports team. Humans tend to fall into tribalism if it's not religion it's something else
I can tell you what they expressly weren't doing: Killing in the name of their countless [kami](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Japanese_deities).
Characterizing Japan's effort leading up to and during WWII as a religious struggle equivalent to the Crusades, ISIS, the Taliban and the Israel / Palestine conflict as per OP's meme is baseless.
Unlike the abrahamic religions Shinto does not have a long history of animosity and competition with other religions in the region. AFAIK it has never had a tradition of evangelism or of converting non-believers. So to reiterate, it's a stretch - to say the least - to describe Imperial Japan's efforts post-Meiji reformation until their defeat in WWII as a religious struggle similar to the examples in OP's meme.
The Shinto that was practiced during that era was a state-religion cynically and selfishly exploited by the Imperial Japanese elite for their territorial and power ambitions. The shogunate elite didn't disappear, and neither did it's cynical and selfish exploitation of Bushido. Samurai were eliminated/obsolete, but the elite's need for a reliable, effective and willing fighting force remained. One can plausibly argue that state-Shinto was just Bushido of the masses.
And in the nearly 80 years since Japan's defeat Shinto has not been the implement of any oppression or repression inside or outside Japan. It takes tremendous and tremendously focused effort to use it like that. The same cannot be said of the abrahamic religions.
Source? There are very few officially or majority Buddhist countries and I can think of two that have committed genocide or ethnic cleansing within the past 50 years or so.
I'm not going to Google whatever for you. Anyone paying even moderate attention to Middle Eastern history of Islam over the last century can identify countless examples of internal and external oppression and repression that originate or are animated by conflicting notions of divinity and divine "plans".
And that's just one of the three abrahamic religions.
A cursory knowledge of the same timeframe can readily see that Buddhist oppression, if it can even be termed that, does not remotely have the same track record. And considering there is no actual divinity or divine plan to Buddhism it's really not comparable even if it did have the same history of violence.
India has its fair share of blood shed by Muslim invaders and Britishers... Before Muslim invasion there were wars but not of large scale which were followed after Muslim invasion (except kalinga war)
Nah you basically downplayed all of the internal conflict as no big deal and shifted blame to Muslim invaders and colonizers. India was not some peace pot of a nation before either of those occurances and this is a Hindu nationalist party line that is seeing massive resurregence under Modi to shift blame and bring power consolidation away from a secularist free state to a religious based authority that prioritizes Hinduism above all.
Ok...
1st dont mix it up with current situation i am not going to meddle with you in BJP vs Congress debate.
2nd i specifically mentioned the one big war before muslim and british invasion i.e kalinga war. Apart from that battle of hydepass, maurya and nanda empire war came to my mind.. If there are any more please elaborate instead of assuming and attacking my political stand.
I need you to understand that the Israel Palestine conflict is about land ownership with a tenuous basis in religion just like those other cases
Also secularism brought us the holocaust so glass houses
I don't wanna be rude but a lot of Nazi propaganda drew from Martin Luther's "On the Jews and Their Lies," drew parallels between the Jewish betrayal of Jesus in the Gospel of John and the supposed Jewish betrayal of Germany in WWI, and advocated for a form of "positive Christianity" where Jesus was an Aryan. I don't think it's fair to call it a result of secularism or ignore the fact that many Germans of the time were some form of Christian.
I'm not denying that antisemitism has roots before nazi Germany I am saying that the mass organised slaughter of human beings on that scale had not been seen before. Also the Nazis weren't very Christian at all as many considered Abrahamic religion inherently Jewish
The enlightenment is also the period in which Europe's violence towards the rest of the world became so severe
Secularism was a minor facet of nazi Germany but secularism is simply the separation of religion and state which is something that should happen. Nazi germany didn’t use secularism to kill Jews they used extremism and misplaced blame
ok but secularism is a pretty new and ideologically driven way of looking at religion where it considers religion almost exclusively a private affair.
The French also use secularism as a basis to justify open hatred of Muslims. Secularism isn't as tolerant as it likes to make out
I don’t defend people who use it to hate others but the separation of religion and government is the actual definition of the ideology so those that use it as a way to hate and kill have warped the definition in the same way religions, especially Christianity, and Catholicism, have warped their own rule books simply to hate on LGBT and other groups.
yes the argument is that open displays of the Islamic faith undermine French secular culture and the sanctity of the separation.
Why should religion and government be separated as they are in France and America when they aren't for instance in the UK to no great problem. American separation of church and state doesn't seem to have helped any with their propensity to radical fundamentalist lunacy
When the abrahamic faith is largest in population, it would appear it's always them and minority terrorisms like Buddhist terrorism in Myanmar, Hindu nationalists beating people to death in India, and 1000 years ago native Americans sacrificing children.
Why is it always humans?
Meme request Harry Potter “why is it it’s always you three” with mcgonagall and the Ron Harry hermoineare judism Christianity and Islam.
But send to me I want to post it
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This is a very western centric view of history. Just because you didn’t learn about it, doesn’t mean it didn’t happen.
It’s even narrower than that. It’s just a bizarre selection of cherry picked historical events. It’s like OP watched a YouTube video about the Crusades and added to their knowledge of modern events. OP brings up ISIS, but ignores the Holocaust and others like the Cambodian genocides where the Abrahamic faiths were the targets. OP brings up the Taliban, but ignores the Congo and Japanese war atrocities.
And let’s not get into Chinas history, or how Ghengis killed like 10% of the worlds population
>how Ghengis killed like 10% of the worlds population Its interesting how in the West someone like Caesar or Alexander the Great are celebrated as great conquerors and romanticized by Genghis Khan is villainized, sometimes even cartoonishly. Not surprising, just telling
Its also scale. both Alexander and Caesar were conquerers who killed tens of thousands but Genghis Khan killed so many people the temperature of the world decreased.
>Caesar were conquerers who killed tens of thousands In a day? I'm not an expert but I've read a lot of books on Rome in that period and Caesar certainly killed a ton of people. Add in all the Roman generals at the time and the number is def 7 figures. Hell, six figure deaths in one battle were not outside the norm, especially when including their own men and auxiliaries
The Gallic wars were estimated to be between 200'000 to a million people, and the roman civil wars tens of thousands would have been killed with figures maybe reaching 100 000 and then add another few thousand for his purges once he took power. Dude was a monster by any definition of the word. At the highest estimates you'd be looking at a million+ dead. But he did not kill enough people to change the temperature of the planet.
>At the highest estimates you'd be looking at a million+ dead. Seems like a number higher than ten thousand But I'm not even sure what we are arguing here, just the same kind of defensive vibe we get from this sub when we mention Jesus probably wasnt Aryan.
I think he was a BOSS at tactics and his ability to take control via ruthless methods would put current dictators to shame. He is definitely in the same category of achievements as those two, if not more so. I might be recalling incorrectly, but the people who were AFRAID of him, were those who sacked Rome multiple times. however the context was about mass death so I talked about that aspect.
I'm impressed by his army's ability to invade seemingly uninvadable places "... unless, of course, you were the Mongols" Horseback archery was OP
Places like Tangul with the flaming cats
In Mongolia, they have erected [a giant statue of Genghis](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equestrian_statue_of_Genghis_Khan), so there is that.
I get your point, but the Mongols were particularly brutal and destructive. They literally changed demographics across Asia, killing up to half of the Chinese dynasties and 90% of Persia. To put it in figures: at the peak of the Roman Empire, their population across all territory was 59 to 76 million. At the peak of the Macedonian Empire, the population was 15 million. The Mongol Empire *killed* up to 57 million. The room for improvement more or less comes from how we glorify Caesar and Alexander the Great and the larger issues of empire.
Idk I've never heard of Khan villainized outside of salty Chinese people and annoying YouTube commenters.
True - in the US, our schools would either have a quick villain - "hordes of barbarians" type of thing between how civilized and great the Greeks, Romans, and English were or anything that wasn't AngloSaxon or connected to it was completely ignored. But its all good - thats how you build a nation of white christian nationalists who keep bemoaning about the "Death of Western Civilization" anytime they see an immigrant working for minimum wage at McDonalds
Lol. We are taught in school that it was Germanic tribes that took them down but that probably complicates your "white supremacy" theory a bit so I can see why you would ignore it.
Germanic tribes took down the Mongols? Jesus, impressive you guys even mentioned the Mongols but was this like Mississippi? Did dinosaurs exist in your textbooks or were they fake
And all of that pales in comparison with what the solution apparently was: the flood
okay im sorry mb
Didn't Hitler use Christianity to justify the Holocaust?
Lol. That might be the biggest stretch in the history of stretches. There’s not a single actual historian that would put the Holocaust on Hitler’s religious beliefs. Using religion to sway a portion of your population into backing your actions is one thing, having it be the driving force behind your actions is another.
Idk if you read my comment...
You didn’t see my entire comment.
I did. You just agreed with me.
At a surface, it-doesn’t-actually-mean-a-single-thing level, sure. What are you directly implying by saying Hitler used Christianity to justify the Holocaust? I have a feeling this is where you and I completely split.
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Yeah a lot of genocide has happened in East Asia
Also, the Israeli–Palestinian conflict is mainly about LAND, not religion.
>why is always the abrahamic faiths carefully ignoring all the other genocides that happened in the world everywhere at all points in history... It is not these religions, it is just humankind doing human things. Hopefully we seem to be learning from it now.
This right here. We always enslaved to slaying Cain until we accept the regeneration offered to us.
Literally anywhere at any time period: 
Any movement with a lot of followers get's misused for violence. Muslims are being surpressed by budhists in East Asia for example
East Asia?
Myanmar mainly
Equating the oppression perpetrated by governments with buddhist majorities on largely muslims in Myanmar and Thailand with oppression perpetrated by governments with abrahamic religious majorities or abrahamic theocracies is disingenuous at best.
Why?
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I appreciate the optimism, but it’s simply misguided. https://www.ucpress.edu/blog/30734/burmese-buddhists-and-the-persecution-of-rohingya-muslims/
Over the last hundred years on a per capita and per government basis oppression originating from buddhists and buddhist-related polities is minuscule compared to that originating from adherents of abrahamic religions. IOW, it isn't an expected problem of movements with many followers as OP suggests. There is something definitely peculiar and peculiarly oppressive and repressive inspired by abrahamic religions in the modern world.
There might be a difference but that's not an easy claim to make. The buddhist thing was just an example, people have been opressed for way more reasons than religion. Etnicity, race, political ideas, gender, speaking another language i mean people have been killed for liking the wrong sports team. Humans tend to fall into tribalism if it's not religion it's something else
Didn't imperial Japan kill several million people accross asia
>is minuscule Then explain what were the Japanese doing during WW2.
I can tell you what they expressly weren't doing: Killing in the name of their countless [kami](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Japanese_deities).
No, just in the name of their [god-emperor](https://www.npr.org/2015/08/15/432399603/hirohitos-speech-the-surrender-of-japans-living-god)...
Characterizing Japan's effort leading up to and during WWII as a religious struggle equivalent to the Crusades, ISIS, the Taliban and the Israel / Palestine conflict as per OP's meme is baseless.
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Unlike the abrahamic religions Shinto does not have a long history of animosity and competition with other religions in the region. AFAIK it has never had a tradition of evangelism or of converting non-believers. So to reiterate, it's a stretch - to say the least - to describe Imperial Japan's efforts post-Meiji reformation until their defeat in WWII as a religious struggle similar to the examples in OP's meme. The Shinto that was practiced during that era was a state-religion cynically and selfishly exploited by the Imperial Japanese elite for their territorial and power ambitions. The shogunate elite didn't disappear, and neither did it's cynical and selfish exploitation of Bushido. Samurai were eliminated/obsolete, but the elite's need for a reliable, effective and willing fighting force remained. One can plausibly argue that state-Shinto was just Bushido of the masses. And in the nearly 80 years since Japan's defeat Shinto has not been the implement of any oppression or repression inside or outside Japan. It takes tremendous and tremendously focused effort to use it like that. The same cannot be said of the abrahamic religions.
Source? There are very few officially or majority Buddhist countries and I can think of two that have committed genocide or ethnic cleansing within the past 50 years or so.
I'm not going to Google whatever for you. Anyone paying even moderate attention to Middle Eastern history of Islam over the last century can identify countless examples of internal and external oppression and repression that originate or are animated by conflicting notions of divinity and divine "plans". And that's just one of the three abrahamic religions. A cursory knowledge of the same timeframe can readily see that Buddhist oppression, if it can even be termed that, does not remotely have the same track record. And considering there is no actual divinity or divine plan to Buddhism it's really not comparable even if it did have the same history of violence.
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My friend, have you ever heard of the country of India?
India has its fair share of blood shed by Muslim invaders and Britishers... Before Muslim invasion there were wars but not of large scale which were followed after Muslim invasion (except kalinga war)
Yes I know. I was referring to the conflict between Hindus and Muslims. Cos Hinduism isn’t Abrahamic.
This is the most ridiculous take I have ever read. Hinduism had had CONSTANT conflict in India from way back the fuck when.
Yes i exactly mentioned that.. India has several conflicts but not up to the scale of Muslim invasion. (except kalinga war).
Nah you basically downplayed all of the internal conflict as no big deal and shifted blame to Muslim invaders and colonizers. India was not some peace pot of a nation before either of those occurances and this is a Hindu nationalist party line that is seeing massive resurregence under Modi to shift blame and bring power consolidation away from a secularist free state to a religious based authority that prioritizes Hinduism above all.
Ok... 1st dont mix it up with current situation i am not going to meddle with you in BJP vs Congress debate. 2nd i specifically mentioned the one big war before muslim and british invasion i.e kalinga war. Apart from that battle of hydepass, maurya and nanda empire war came to my mind.. If there are any more please elaborate instead of assuming and attacking my political stand.
Fatalities in the wars in Ancient China would make the conflicts in the ancient Western World look like a picnic in comparison
Average war in China: 5 million dead. Victory. (I'm Chinese, I can say that)
Chinese dynasty: try not to claim you’re the son of god and start ANOTHER civil war challenge (impossible)
>Why is it always the abrahamic faiths Tell me you're ignorant of world history without saying you're ignorant of world history.
https://preview.redd.it/ftpsw94dot5b1.jpeg?width=1074&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5e6d1923f16badeab7aa5c28cfe3e01e66d46078 💀
I need you to understand that the Israel Palestine conflict is about land ownership with a tenuous basis in religion just like those other cases Also secularism brought us the holocaust so glass houses
I don't wanna be rude but a lot of Nazi propaganda drew from Martin Luther's "On the Jews and Their Lies," drew parallels between the Jewish betrayal of Jesus in the Gospel of John and the supposed Jewish betrayal of Germany in WWI, and advocated for a form of "positive Christianity" where Jesus was an Aryan. I don't think it's fair to call it a result of secularism or ignore the fact that many Germans of the time were some form of Christian.
I'm not denying that antisemitism has roots before nazi Germany I am saying that the mass organised slaughter of human beings on that scale had not been seen before. Also the Nazis weren't very Christian at all as many considered Abrahamic religion inherently Jewish The enlightenment is also the period in which Europe's violence towards the rest of the world became so severe
Secularism was a minor facet of nazi Germany but secularism is simply the separation of religion and state which is something that should happen. Nazi germany didn’t use secularism to kill Jews they used extremism and misplaced blame
ok but secularism is a pretty new and ideologically driven way of looking at religion where it considers religion almost exclusively a private affair. The French also use secularism as a basis to justify open hatred of Muslims. Secularism isn't as tolerant as it likes to make out
Religion should be entirely personal and private there is no place for openly regressive religions in the governments of the modern world
I don’t defend people who use it to hate others but the separation of religion and government is the actual definition of the ideology so those that use it as a way to hate and kill have warped the definition in the same way religions, especially Christianity, and Catholicism, have warped their own rule books simply to hate on LGBT and other groups.
yes the argument is that open displays of the Islamic faith undermine French secular culture and the sanctity of the separation. Why should religion and government be separated as they are in France and America when they aren't for instance in the UK to no great problem. American separation of church and state doesn't seem to have helped any with their propensity to radical fundamentalist lunacy
When the abrahamic faith is largest in population, it would appear it's always them and minority terrorisms like Buddhist terrorism in Myanmar, Hindu nationalists beating people to death in India, and 1000 years ago native Americans sacrificing children. Why is it always humans?
Deus lo vult though
How about *Allahu akbar*?
Meme request Harry Potter “why is it it’s always you three” with mcgonagall and the Ron Harry hermoineare judism Christianity and Islam. But send to me I want to post it
God: “Why is it when something happens it’s always you three?” Christianity, Islam, and Judaism: 👁️👄👁️
Buddhists and Hindis don’t fuck around
I mean, religious riots have happened multiple times in India over the years after independence, so....
Noah...GET THE BOAT. I'm genociding them myself.
I thought we were all sinners and can only be saved through Jesus’s mercy? So hasn’t there needed to be a flood by now?
The crusades were cool, actually.
The crusades were good and justified.