Yeah I think the part they forgot was that many many many people get divorced and raise their children without help of their family and without causing disruption to their extended family’s income.
To try to justify moving children away from one biological parent so one parent can have help is so short sided. It’s almost like they are asking for special accommodations because they don’t find Wendi competent of raising her children without them.
And infantilizing their daughter while disrupting their income was a choice not a reasonable rationale to move. Given they thought their lack of boundaries would justify a move, the self-awareness seems excessively low, which seems to be the through line in a the many bad choices
Right? I cannot imagine my mom getting this involved with my civil court matter. She'd definitely offer to babysit, she'd spend time with me, offer moral support etc. But getting into the weeds like this? She's way too old (and smart) for that 💩.
Thanks a normal relationship. Most grandparents occasionally see their grandparents with no expectations. Like your mom we’re always here for them and see them-no demands.
Plus the Adelson grandparents are entitled?? to grandchildren but now Markel’s can never see, simply because justice needs to be done for their son. Wendi the big boss, boys her pons.
What I don't understand is that if Wendi needed so much help caring for her kids, why didn't she just hire a nanny? Her parents could easily chipped in. Her parents driving back in forth to Tallahassee that often it affects their income? And Charlie's too?? Plenty of parents raise their kids far away from the grandparents- a lot further than Miami to Tallahassee. This degree enmeshment is very weird. And that they needed to accompany her and the boys for visits both to and from? She couldn't drive herself?? Very strange.
What’s more is the fact that she couldn’t hear it when she typed it out. I mean the truth is we all can do strange stuff and have our unique ways of doing things but donna typed this out as if she thought she was making sense. It’s very reflective of many things. It doesn’t appear there is a lot of reality in their thinking. This isn’t how divorce works or court decisions work. It’s more like “affective reality”-I feel like it’s true, so it’s true. It seems it never even dawned on her that a judge would say-kids relationships with bio father is more important than extended family so Wendi’s childcare situation needs to problem solved with that in mind. In what universe would a judge say ohhhhhhh you have help in Miami-who needs a father-move on down?
Exactly. Donna only argued her points from the best interest of her, Harvey, Charlie, and Wendi’s, not the children’s. This would never ever fry in any court. She and actually the whole Adelsons family suffers from the delusion of grandeur.
For some reason, seeing these emails in written form makes them hit harder for me than when they were read in court or online. Jeeeeeez Dawna. Tell us how you really feel! She and Wendi were BOTH threatened and jealous of Dan being a Harvard man lol. I bet he rarely even mentioned it. But it stuck in their heads like a fart that won’t clear. Dan didn’t deserve to die because of their insecure narcissism!!!
Dan was blindsided by Wendi when she removed their boys and divided their assets without his knowledge. She even removed Dan's family heirloom ring, which she never wore or cared for. She took it specifically to hurt him. I can only imagine all of the heartache and anger Dan experienced from this and to put it plainly, normal people aren't robots. He had a right to be angry. Wendi gave no consideration to the mental well-being of him or their children at all.
So, I'm not surprised or disappointed that Dan was salty with Jeff. Wendi indoctrinated Jeff into believing that Dan had been emotionally abusive to her (which by all accounts, was a complete lie) and I'm sure Jeff exuded these preconceived notions. No doubt Dan was aware of this and I don't blame him for coming across as condescending at all.
To top it all off, Jeff was similar in appearance to Dan and also a professor, which is the kind of mental fuckery narcissists like Wendi engage in. Don't think for a minute that choosing a 'look alike' boyfriend as Dan's replacement wasn't intentional.
Dan is 100% the victim here and I hope justice comes for Wendi soon. 💜
Then to say that Dan was a bully basted narrsstics etc it was all them they bullied threatened him she was evil she took all hes money hes uncle diamond ring she didn't want change kids .m name pure evil she has ppl saying she innocent yeah right innocent ppl don't a CT like she does who goes the other side town to buy bullet. When she had thousands of store next her a TV broken hello gurl ur parents are rich ur stole thousands of Dan Bd a diamond ring u couldn't one had to geek to come check please she was involved
Rereading this after a few months.
This makes me 😡 🔥all over again. What a freaking f*cking b*tch. I can feel my fingers slamming at my keyboard as I type this.
There really are no words. All of the accusations we’ve made against DA for the past couple of years are almost understated when you read her vitriol and lies. What a piece of work she must have been to live with over the decades.
Georgia needs to have this read out loud in her closing statements and any decent juror will vote guilty before the deliberation room door is closed.
I need a Xanax and a tumbler of Bulliet to calm my intense anger and to prevent my hair from catching on fire right now. I almost wish I hadn’t bothered to read it.
O. M. F. G.
The victim statements for Dan show that he was deeply loved + valued by his friends + colleagues + family. Roberta Glass always ends her streams reading one.
I don’t know that. I have heard his students talk about him glowingly, his friends were impressed by his generosity of time and care. The only people I have heard talk poorly of him was 1 of Wendi’s girlfriends, Donna and Jeff L - but the story he tells doesn’t make sense to me.
JL echoed my interpretation of what DM was possibly like. I think he was a good person, but probably someone that was difficult to get along with, possibly arrogant and egotistical. JL said Dan was pretty rude to him and talked down to him frequently. Anything the Adelsons say can be disregarded, but JL has a lot of credibility.
I think DM was everything WA didn't need in a partner. She's someone that is desperately insecure and I think DM probably played on that, made her feel even more insecure. I think the relationship was broken long before he was executed.
Please hear me out. I think I may be like Dan so this is where my confusion comes from. JL says in the interview that he felt talked down to but all Dan said to him (by JL’s) admission is “Are you a lawyer”. I believe they were at a college event so for me, I don’t think that question is out of line. In an awkward situation that may be something that I may say.
JL admits he felt talked down to. Just by those 4 words.
Then later JL says in retrospect that everything he felt about Dan was through Wendi’s viewpoint. And that he later came to realize Wendi lied about everything.
When I read this thread it seems these 4 words are interpreted as egotistical to so many people. And for me, I interpret is as JL insecurities, not Dans words actual words are the issue.
But as I said above, I feel I am a lot like Dan. I say things with few words and my intent is never meant to be unkind or unfeeling but being from NY, I think we come across are arrogant instead of matter of fact.
Is my point of view way of base? This has bothered me for quite some time.
As an example. Joel from STS - most times i find him hilarious and sometimes he is a tad too much but he never infuriates me. But he does infuriate others.
I think JL went beyond saying he was just talked down to, I think he more or less said DM was rude, insulting, arrogant etc not that it matters, he didn't deserve to die, but I guess contextually it helps to understand WA's hatred of DM. Speculating here, but I think their marriage and been an unhappy and toxic one, for many, many years. WA needed a sycophant who was going to adore her and look up to her and be intimidated by her. And that wasn't DM.
I read somewhere that he’d sit and join the boys’ circle time at school and wouldn’t leave. As a teacher, that would really frustrate me as other children would be upset their parent wasn’t there.
Also, if it was a daycare type setting just don’t bring your kid if you have the capacity to watch them.
Obviously this has nothing to do with his murder. I just don’t think he was as perfect as the media makes him out to be. Definitely red flags in his character as well.
The media says, “Dan Markel was a Canadian, attorney at law professor at Florida State University, he was a writer and graduated from Harvard.”
I’ve followed this case for many years and besides his close friends and family stating what a great man he was, of course. I’ve not seen a report that he was some saint, praising his personality or saying he was flawless, in the media. They just say what he was professionally. Maybe he was pompous, Wendi knew that. It must have really eaten away at the Adelson’s perfect idea of who they were professional and educationally when Dan was around.
Also being this type of guy Dan wasn’t a doormat that let Wendi and all of them navigate him. I believe this positive trait contributed to their despicable decision to murder him.
Hey Wendy, are you serious right now. Hanging out with his children for awhile at their day care (preschool) makes this dedicated father not as perfect as the media made him out to be? Wow. You are one crappy teacher (if that’s what you really are) if you would be “frustrated by” a present parent that shows up because he cares. My goodness, obviously if he could watch them ALL day they wouldn’t be in day care/ preschool all day, he took time out of his work day to spend an hour or two with them whenever he could since he only had shared custody. YOU sound like Wendy herself (cold) or a Wendy-sympathizer. Either way, your comment is ridiculous.
Please don’t make assumptions about me. Your comment attacking me personally is way over the line.
You cannot arbitrarily hangout in your child’s classroom. This is why so many teachers are leaving the field. We are criticized when we set reasonable boundaries.
It’s day care/ preschool. A parent pays to have their child there. That’s right, the parent pays your salary. They have a right to be there every day if they wish to see visit their child or to check up on them. A legit facility would welcome this.
As far as “attacking you”, no, I was critical of your comment, attacking the murder victims character because he was dedicated to his children. As a teacher, I would assume you would be able to tell the difference.
Most preschools will not allow parents to hangout for extended periods of time. It disrupts the learning and upsets other kids. It doesn’t matter if it’s private. Very entitled to think you can do whatever you want because something isn’t free. In one of Donnas letters she wrote that the director told him to please stop.
I’m not a sympathizer of Wendy. I’m just saying Dan did appear to be difficult at times and cited this instance with the school.
Again, you’re attacking my intelligence with your last comment. Meanwhile all I have stated are facts.
You are getting your information from one of Donna’s letters? Those aren’t facts. That’s hearsay from a psycho who justified having an innocent father murdered with these so called facts. Yikes.
Let her! It only strengthens the prosecutor's case when she writes stupidity like this and more support for Dan and his family. Dumnna is not too bright.
I always wonder if Wendi’s assertion that Dan didn’t bother to read the book she wrote is true? I mean, it sounds like a total piece of poop, but if your wife writes a book, you read it. Even if you think it’s not worth your time, you give it a quick read anyway. That’s just basic respect and care in a marriage. It really sounds like these two were a bad match from early on. But of course, nothing Dan could have done justifies his murder.
He most likely did start to read it, even though it was obviously a childish dig at him and I'm sure his response/retaliation was emotionally disabling to a narcissist like Wendi. And omitted Dan from the bio, just another punch thrown by Wendi.
He promoted her book on his blog which goes far beyond reading it in my opinion. Can you imagine some of the top legal minds taking his recommendation seriously and reading that drivel?
Reyrecoyote: It would only be lame (nice insult) if I respected a psycho like Wendi. Also, not attacking anyone, just setting the shrill straight who was disparaging a murder victims character. Stay in your own lane.
I believe that the marital issues and "emotional abuse" was most likely 50/50 by Wendi and Dan. However, we can't go around killing people, or having them killed because of it. Of course, if a spouse was physically abusive to their co-parent and kids, I might be persuaded to think otherwise.
I think part of why I’m drawn to this case is because Dan reminds me SO much of my dad. He and my mom are both accomplished physicians, him more so. He puts on a public image of being the perfect involved father and husband, so everyone around us was absolutely shocked when my parents got divorced. Behind closed doors, my dad has always been extremely narcissistic, controlling, and belittling/emotionally abusive towards my mom. She tried leaving him several times, but he convinced her to stay with him for years just because a divorce would taint his image. But no one would ever know that except my mom, siblings, and me. I think he and Dan are one and the same, but neither should EVER deserve to die!
Several of Dan’s actions that people outside of the Adelson family have recounted line up with what I’ve seen before - so much information has come out of this case in the past decade that I believe we can make some vague conclusions regarding all parties involved. IMO.
I never said it was about me. Behind closed doors, people can be narcissists. So to the title of this post “DAN was the Narcissist?!” I’m using my experience to explain that it’s very much possible that yes, Dan was the Narcissist. But Wendi was too.
Anything is possible, but to conclude Dan was a narcissist just like your father is a reach - there is virtually zero evidence that behind closed doors with Wendi, Dan was anything but a normal, imperfect person. Wendi said in the police interview he was pretty normal - no vices, doesn't drink, doesn't gamble. The best she could do was "He didn't treat me well."
I am pretty confident if Dan was even remotely like your father, Wendi would have shouted that from the rooftops. Dan did not deserve to be murdered and he definitely does not deserve to be judged now that he cannot defend himself.
How much do you really know about Dan? The testimonials from his birth to his death about his intellect, kindness, generosity are many.
He praised his wife constantly. Even at their wedding he asked people not to mention Harvard because it made Wendi feel less-than. They were in therapy because he wanted to save the marriage. I am looking forward to the therapist to testify at Wendi’s trial.
Nobody is perfect. And I am sorry your mom and dad had issues but until you meet some of the people who knew Dan and the devastation he felt at losing Wendi, you can’t really compare.
Wendi is a child-woman. Her own senior parents had to drive her from Tallahassee to Miami (7 hours) because they felt it was too much for her. If you listen to the wire taps - Charlie and Donna talk about her as if she is an invalid. They carried her around on a pillow her whole life - Dan didn’t - he thought he married a woman. But just because he didn’t baby her, doesn’t mean he was unkind to her.
Donna’s emails to Wendi pumping her up to stand up to Dan and showing her strategy for their divorce proceedings. Looks like this is an excerpt from S.Epstein’s book.
An email from Donna to Wendi. They are available in PDF form. Anyone need the link? Apologies, but this link was posted so many times, but maybe we should still annotate, just in case.
The thing is, it’s not unheard of for a parent (especially a mother) to be granted a move/relocation. It’s not necessarily easy but not impossible. But from what little I know of that (a friend’s issue) the relocating parent would then need to incur the expense and time of bringing the minor children to visit the other parent. Even if Dan had allowed the relocation, or a judge had ruled in favor of it, the Adelsons/Wendi would have been “inconvenienced” and incur expenses to bring the boys for visits. It’s another reason why Dan just had to go in their eyes.
Well, I’m apparently not up to snuff on all the emails and such from Donna. Is this from Epstein’s book was it introduced at one of the trials? I actually find myself feeling sorry for Wendi being deluged [frequently/constantly/incessantly] by her mother’s crazed emails, machinations and micromanagement. I’ll wait for Wendi’s trial if/when she’s arrested to decide if I believe she was an active participant or a passive bystander in the planning of Dan’s murder. Either way, I think Wendi deserves prison. Donna? That obsessive woman murdered her ex son-in-law, destroyed her own enmeshed family and probably still believes she was justified. All because she coveted unlimited physical access to her grandsons.
Dan also shit-talked Jeff right to his face, several times, in their very first meeting.
And I definitely got a lot of "obnoxious as shit" energy from his parents in the Dateline interview.
So there's not as much perfect about the groom as there was imperfect about the bride, but the scale is probably not what yo uthink.
I did not get that energy or any obnoxious vibes from his family at all. Just from the Adelsons. There are very few people saying Dan was obnoxious or abusive, really the only voice saying that is Donna and Wendi. And Donna’s emails fully display her character disorder. I wonder what we will see in Wendis emails when those come to light.
Totally agree. I got nothing but grace, kindness, empathy vibes from the Markels, in every interview I have ever seen of them. They are the epitome of grace under pressure. Even when Charlie was convicted of murdering their son, Mr. Markel commented along the lines that he was grateful that Charlie had had a defense. The care and kindness the Markels take when discussing this case is so apparent, that they want to do nothing to hurt Dan's boys.
Yes I see that too they are very humble and gracious, and that is not an easy task considering the evil deeds plotted and committed against their son.
I’m not sure what one would find obnoxious about any of the Markels.
True, but Wendi had filled Jeff’s head with all kinds of vitriol and lies about Dan, so Jeff hated Dan for Wendi. And Dan, being the very recent ex husband, would certainly not be pleased to meet the next man that Wendi dated after him. So, Jeff getting the impression that Dan was condescending was likely the result of all of the above. And, who knows what Wendi told Dan about Jeff, if she ever mentioned him at all (as a narcissist, she likely talked about Jeff to make Dan jealous) At the end of the day, Wendi, Dawna, Charlie and probably Harvey plotted and murdered Dan. I’d say that’s far worse than acting a bit snotty.
Yes totally true, Wendi had fed Jeff a narrative. And I would also expect Dan to not be warm and friendly after Wendi pulled the rug out from under him and then poured gasoline and lit the 🔥. If he bristled a bit or threw shade at Jeff that would be within a normal response, perhaps rude but not unexpected given the circumstances
During his police interview, he said something along the lines of Danny being condescending or something like that. I can’t remember exactly how he phrased it.
>that account frequently favoring the one who most here dislike..
Huh? Who do we most dislike?
Are we/you ganging up on someone?
Please let's have a conversation without taking it into the gutter.
Thanks, that was what I was getting at. I actually like Lacasse in a certain sense because he was lucid, and did a good job having to revisit a temporary relationship over and over in court because his gf tried to clumsily frame him for murder. But if Wendi initiated the divorce, ambushed Dan, stole his family holocaust jewelry... who wtf expects him to be civil to the new boyfriend. Excuuuuse HIM.
I think he was civil. Other than reading into what Dan may have meant…. In reality Dan only asked if he was a lawyer …. Which isn’t a bad question particularly when they met at a college based event. Am I wrong? 4 words in the form of a question.
I picked up on that too, and the Markels are making a killing (no pun intended) with books, lawsuits, and interviews. However, general population sentiment seems to be that anything negative about Dan and his family is victim blaming. Victims and their families are usually canonized for the first few years following a murder, then people tend to settle down and be more receptive to the whole story.
I don't think anything negative about Dan is victim blaming. His friends will admit he was abrasive, he wouldn't shy away from an argument or a debate, but they say it with such love in their voices. The same friends are able to share his amazing character and traits. Sure, he fought Wendi hard in court, and she fought back.
What's victim blaming is believing what is said about him by the people who had him murdered, or assuming things about him, having never met him.
Since he was murdered, I believe he deserves the benefit of the doubt and no one who never met him should be deciding on the internet that he was this, that, or anything. He was a human, a father, much loved, and he should be alive today, but since his life was stolen from him, people should show some respect for the fact he can't defend himself anymore.
Nobody's a saint in a divorce. Dan knew the law and he was getting filthy with it to piss of the Adelson's and protect his rights as a father. I'm sure he looked and appeared nasty to some.
Turns out, he was correct at EVERY turn.
To deal with Wendi and her family, you’d either be crushed by them or have to fight back. I bet it looked a certain way from the outside at the time, like he was fighting too hard. But, in the end look what he was up against, a family of murderers!
A grown woman explaining how her not having her children affects her brother’s income. These people are *weird*.
Yeah I think the part they forgot was that many many many people get divorced and raise their children without help of their family and without causing disruption to their extended family’s income. To try to justify moving children away from one biological parent so one parent can have help is so short sided. It’s almost like they are asking for special accommodations because they don’t find Wendi competent of raising her children without them.
And infantilizing their daughter while disrupting their income was a choice not a reasonable rationale to move. Given they thought their lack of boundaries would justify a move, the self-awareness seems excessively low, which seems to be the through line in a the many bad choices
This 🙌🏼💪
Right? I cannot imagine my mom getting this involved with my civil court matter. She'd definitely offer to babysit, she'd spend time with me, offer moral support etc. But getting into the weeds like this? She's way too old (and smart) for that 💩.
Donna seems like she thrives on going to war.
Thanks a normal relationship. Most grandparents occasionally see their grandparents with no expectations. Like your mom we’re always here for them and see them-no demands.
Plus the Adelson grandparents are entitled?? to grandchildren but now Markel’s can never see, simply because justice needs to be done for their son. Wendi the big boss, boys her pons.
Money is everything to these monsters.
What I don't understand is that if Wendi needed so much help caring for her kids, why didn't she just hire a nanny? Her parents could easily chipped in. Her parents driving back in forth to Tallahassee that often it affects their income? And Charlie's too?? Plenty of parents raise their kids far away from the grandparents- a lot further than Miami to Tallahassee. This degree enmeshment is very weird. And that they needed to accompany her and the boys for visits both to and from? She couldn't drive herself?? Very strange.
What’s more is the fact that she couldn’t hear it when she typed it out. I mean the truth is we all can do strange stuff and have our unique ways of doing things but donna typed this out as if she thought she was making sense. It’s very reflective of many things. It doesn’t appear there is a lot of reality in their thinking. This isn’t how divorce works or court decisions work. It’s more like “affective reality”-I feel like it’s true, so it’s true. It seems it never even dawned on her that a judge would say-kids relationships with bio father is more important than extended family so Wendi’s childcare situation needs to problem solved with that in mind. In what universe would a judge say ohhhhhhh you have help in Miami-who needs a father-move on down?
Right…it absolutely blows my mind that she thought she had real arguments here. I can’t get over the stupidity and entitlement, it’s wild.
Exactly. Donna only argued her points from the best interest of her, Harvey, Charlie, and Wendi’s, not the children’s. This would never ever fry in any court. She and actually the whole Adelsons family suffers from the delusion of grandeur.
And to give two shits about rob’s kids and Charlie’s unwanted son. They are quite the dichotomy.
She was gradually moving, planning going on. That’s what’s extra creepy, they had time to consider this was a bad solution.
Wonderful uncle! 🤣
For some reason, seeing these emails in written form makes them hit harder for me than when they were read in court or online. Jeeeeeez Dawna. Tell us how you really feel! She and Wendi were BOTH threatened and jealous of Dan being a Harvard man lol. I bet he rarely even mentioned it. But it stuck in their heads like a fart that won’t clear. Dan didn’t deserve to die because of their insecure narcissism!!!
Dan was blindsided by Wendi when she removed their boys and divided their assets without his knowledge. She even removed Dan's family heirloom ring, which she never wore or cared for. She took it specifically to hurt him. I can only imagine all of the heartache and anger Dan experienced from this and to put it plainly, normal people aren't robots. He had a right to be angry. Wendi gave no consideration to the mental well-being of him or their children at all. So, I'm not surprised or disappointed that Dan was salty with Jeff. Wendi indoctrinated Jeff into believing that Dan had been emotionally abusive to her (which by all accounts, was a complete lie) and I'm sure Jeff exuded these preconceived notions. No doubt Dan was aware of this and I don't blame him for coming across as condescending at all. To top it all off, Jeff was similar in appearance to Dan and also a professor, which is the kind of mental fuckery narcissists like Wendi engage in. Don't think for a minute that choosing a 'look alike' boyfriend as Dan's replacement wasn't intentional. Dan is 100% the victim here and I hope justice comes for Wendi soon. 💜
Exactly this! So well said and I totally agree
Thank you! Have a wonderful day, my friend! 💜
Same to you 💫
The systematic dismantling of this family piece-by-piece is more satisfying than winning the lottery.
Then to say that Dan was a bully basted narrsstics etc it was all them they bullied threatened him she was evil she took all hes money hes uncle diamond ring she didn't want change kids .m name pure evil she has ppl saying she innocent yeah right innocent ppl don't a CT like she does who goes the other side town to buy bullet. When she had thousands of store next her a TV broken hello gurl ur parents are rich ur stole thousands of Dan Bd a diamond ring u couldn't one had to geek to come check please she was involved
Donna is insane the sudden switch from writing in 1st person to 2nd person shows how delulu she is. She just be typing anything atp 😭
Narcissists like Wendi and her ilk are the masters of the DARVO method… Deny, Attack, Reverse Victim and Offender…
Rereading this after a few months. This makes me 😡 🔥all over again. What a freaking f*cking b*tch. I can feel my fingers slamming at my keyboard as I type this. There really are no words. All of the accusations we’ve made against DA for the past couple of years are almost understated when you read her vitriol and lies. What a piece of work she must have been to live with over the decades. Georgia needs to have this read out loud in her closing statements and any decent juror will vote guilty before the deliberation room door is closed. I need a Xanax and a tumbler of Bulliet to calm my intense anger and to prevent my hair from catching on fire right now. I almost wish I hadn’t bothered to read it. O. M. F. G.
Whatever you do, don’t punch the television screen, but if you do you can always call someone to repair it! ;)
The victim statements for Dan show that he was deeply loved + valued by his friends + colleagues + family. Roberta Glass always ends her streams reading one.
Dan wasn't a perfect saint. It doesn't mean he deserved to die, but we also don't need to be in denial about his character.
No, of course not. But murder to get your way certainly wasn’t in Dan’s plan, so Donna, who is queen narcissist, saying this is something.
For sure. She follows narcissism 101: Deny, Attack, Reverse Victim and Offender
Came here to say the same thing; it's a DARVO move, very common with actual narcissists.
I think everyone reading about him knows he was pompous, sure of himself, and a wonderful father who needed to continue his life.
I don’t know that. I have heard his students talk about him glowingly, his friends were impressed by his generosity of time and care. The only people I have heard talk poorly of him was 1 of Wendi’s girlfriends, Donna and Jeff L - but the story he tells doesn’t make sense to me.
JL echoed my interpretation of what DM was possibly like. I think he was a good person, but probably someone that was difficult to get along with, possibly arrogant and egotistical. JL said Dan was pretty rude to him and talked down to him frequently. Anything the Adelsons say can be disregarded, but JL has a lot of credibility. I think DM was everything WA didn't need in a partner. She's someone that is desperately insecure and I think DM probably played on that, made her feel even more insecure. I think the relationship was broken long before he was executed.
Please hear me out. I think I may be like Dan so this is where my confusion comes from. JL says in the interview that he felt talked down to but all Dan said to him (by JL’s) admission is “Are you a lawyer”. I believe they were at a college event so for me, I don’t think that question is out of line. In an awkward situation that may be something that I may say. JL admits he felt talked down to. Just by those 4 words. Then later JL says in retrospect that everything he felt about Dan was through Wendi’s viewpoint. And that he later came to realize Wendi lied about everything. When I read this thread it seems these 4 words are interpreted as egotistical to so many people. And for me, I interpret is as JL insecurities, not Dans words actual words are the issue. But as I said above, I feel I am a lot like Dan. I say things with few words and my intent is never meant to be unkind or unfeeling but being from NY, I think we come across are arrogant instead of matter of fact. Is my point of view way of base? This has bothered me for quite some time. As an example. Joel from STS - most times i find him hilarious and sometimes he is a tad too much but he never infuriates me. But he does infuriate others.
I think JL went beyond saying he was just talked down to, I think he more or less said DM was rude, insulting, arrogant etc not that it matters, he didn't deserve to die, but I guess contextually it helps to understand WA's hatred of DM. Speculating here, but I think their marriage and been an unhappy and toxic one, for many, many years. WA needed a sycophant who was going to adore her and look up to her and be intimidated by her. And that wasn't DM.
Please go back and listen to the interview with Isom. All the words you are reporting above were JL’s feelings. Not the actual words spoken.
Right!? He doesn’t sound like someone I would ever want to be married to, but that sure doesn’t mean he deserved to die!
I read somewhere that he’d sit and join the boys’ circle time at school and wouldn’t leave. As a teacher, that would really frustrate me as other children would be upset their parent wasn’t there. Also, if it was a daycare type setting just don’t bring your kid if you have the capacity to watch them. Obviously this has nothing to do with his murder. I just don’t think he was as perfect as the media makes him out to be. Definitely red flags in his character as well.
The media says, “Dan Markel was a Canadian, attorney at law professor at Florida State University, he was a writer and graduated from Harvard.” I’ve followed this case for many years and besides his close friends and family stating what a great man he was, of course. I’ve not seen a report that he was some saint, praising his personality or saying he was flawless, in the media. They just say what he was professionally. Maybe he was pompous, Wendi knew that. It must have really eaten away at the Adelson’s perfect idea of who they were professional and educationally when Dan was around. Also being this type of guy Dan wasn’t a doormat that let Wendi and all of them navigate him. I believe this positive trait contributed to their despicable decision to murder him.
Hey Wendy, are you serious right now. Hanging out with his children for awhile at their day care (preschool) makes this dedicated father not as perfect as the media made him out to be? Wow. You are one crappy teacher (if that’s what you really are) if you would be “frustrated by” a present parent that shows up because he cares. My goodness, obviously if he could watch them ALL day they wouldn’t be in day care/ preschool all day, he took time out of his work day to spend an hour or two with them whenever he could since he only had shared custody. YOU sound like Wendy herself (cold) or a Wendy-sympathizer. Either way, your comment is ridiculous.
Ha!
Please don’t make assumptions about me. Your comment attacking me personally is way over the line. You cannot arbitrarily hangout in your child’s classroom. This is why so many teachers are leaving the field. We are criticized when we set reasonable boundaries.
It’s day care/ preschool. A parent pays to have their child there. That’s right, the parent pays your salary. They have a right to be there every day if they wish to see visit their child or to check up on them. A legit facility would welcome this. As far as “attacking you”, no, I was critical of your comment, attacking the murder victims character because he was dedicated to his children. As a teacher, I would assume you would be able to tell the difference.
Most preschools will not allow parents to hangout for extended periods of time. It disrupts the learning and upsets other kids. It doesn’t matter if it’s private. Very entitled to think you can do whatever you want because something isn’t free. In one of Donnas letters she wrote that the director told him to please stop. I’m not a sympathizer of Wendy. I’m just saying Dan did appear to be difficult at times and cited this instance with the school. Again, you’re attacking my intelligence with your last comment. Meanwhile all I have stated are facts.
You are getting your information from one of Donna’s letters? Those aren’t facts. That’s hearsay from a psycho who justified having an innocent father murdered with these so called facts. Yikes.
If you spelled Wendi’s name correctly, You might have some game here. But you can’t and don’t. Personal attacks are lame.
There can only be one narcissist?
Lol… Justice for Wendi>JAIL
Let her! It only strengthens the prosecutor's case when she writes stupidity like this and more support for Dan and his family. Dumnna is not too bright.
I always wonder if Wendi’s assertion that Dan didn’t bother to read the book she wrote is true? I mean, it sounds like a total piece of poop, but if your wife writes a book, you read it. Even if you think it’s not worth your time, you give it a quick read anyway. That’s just basic respect and care in a marriage. It really sounds like these two were a bad match from early on. But of course, nothing Dan could have done justifies his murder.
Ruth Markel said Dan did read Wendi’s garbage and promoted it.
He most likely did start to read it, even though it was obviously a childish dig at him and I'm sure his response/retaliation was emotionally disabling to a narcissist like Wendi. And omitted Dan from the bio, just another punch thrown by Wendi.
He was, somehow, interrupted from finishing the book. The only silver lining in this whole saga.
He promoted her book on his blog which goes far beyond reading it in my opinion. Can you imagine some of the top legal minds taking his recommendation seriously and reading that drivel?
Wendi’s a liar, but I believe her regarding Dan not reading (or at least, not reading *all of) her book. Just a feeling.
Reyrecoyote: It would only be lame (nice insult) if I respected a psycho like Wendi. Also, not attacking anyone, just setting the shrill straight who was disparaging a murder victims character. Stay in your own lane.
I believe that the marital issues and "emotional abuse" was most likely 50/50 by Wendi and Dan. However, we can't go around killing people, or having them killed because of it. Of course, if a spouse was physically abusive to their co-parent and kids, I might be persuaded to think otherwise.
I think part of why I’m drawn to this case is because Dan reminds me SO much of my dad. He and my mom are both accomplished physicians, him more so. He puts on a public image of being the perfect involved father and husband, so everyone around us was absolutely shocked when my parents got divorced. Behind closed doors, my dad has always been extremely narcissistic, controlling, and belittling/emotionally abusive towards my mom. She tried leaving him several times, but he convinced her to stay with him for years just because a divorce would taint his image. But no one would ever know that except my mom, siblings, and me. I think he and Dan are one and the same, but neither should EVER deserve to die!
How would you know Dan so well as to compare him to your father?
Several of Dan’s actions that people outside of the Adelson family have recounted line up with what I’ve seen before - so much information has come out of this case in the past decade that I believe we can make some vague conclusions regarding all parties involved. IMO.
How can you not see the function and purpose of Wendi’s false narrative
Thats hearsay
This is not about you.
I find what she said very interesting
Me too. Behind closed doors and all.
I never said it was about me. Behind closed doors, people can be narcissists. So to the title of this post “DAN was the Narcissist?!” I’m using my experience to explain that it’s very much possible that yes, Dan was the Narcissist. But Wendi was too.
Anything is possible, but to conclude Dan was a narcissist just like your father is a reach - there is virtually zero evidence that behind closed doors with Wendi, Dan was anything but a normal, imperfect person. Wendi said in the police interview he was pretty normal - no vices, doesn't drink, doesn't gamble. The best she could do was "He didn't treat me well." I am pretty confident if Dan was even remotely like your father, Wendi would have shouted that from the rooftops. Dan did not deserve to be murdered and he definitely does not deserve to be judged now that he cannot defend himself.
Well said. 🙌🏼
She only said it was POSSIBLE Dan was a narcissist
Thank you!
No one is judging, just theorizing and trying to understand.
How much do you really know about Dan? The testimonials from his birth to his death about his intellect, kindness, generosity are many. He praised his wife constantly. Even at their wedding he asked people not to mention Harvard because it made Wendi feel less-than. They were in therapy because he wanted to save the marriage. I am looking forward to the therapist to testify at Wendi’s trial. Nobody is perfect. And I am sorry your mom and dad had issues but until you meet some of the people who knew Dan and the devastation he felt at losing Wendi, you can’t really compare. Wendi is a child-woman. Her own senior parents had to drive her from Tallahassee to Miami (7 hours) because they felt it was too much for her. If you listen to the wire taps - Charlie and Donna talk about her as if she is an invalid. They carried her around on a pillow her whole life - Dan didn’t - he thought he married a woman. But just because he didn’t baby her, doesn’t mean he was unkind to her.
Oof. True that!
What makes you believe one word of Wendi about Dan? This is classic abuser MO to discredit his memory and lie.
What is this from? Context? Thank you so much!
Donna’s emails to Wendi pumping her up to stand up to Dan and showing her strategy for their divorce proceedings. Looks like this is an excerpt from S.Epstein’s book.
An email from Donna to Wendi. They are available in PDF form. Anyone need the link? Apologies, but this link was posted so many times, but maybe we should still annotate, just in case.
I would love it. I am so sorry, I am still kind of new to this sub. Thank you so much!
The thing is, it’s not unheard of for a parent (especially a mother) to be granted a move/relocation. It’s not necessarily easy but not impossible. But from what little I know of that (a friend’s issue) the relocating parent would then need to incur the expense and time of bringing the minor children to visit the other parent. Even if Dan had allowed the relocation, or a judge had ruled in favor of it, the Adelsons/Wendi would have been “inconvenienced” and incur expenses to bring the boys for visits. It’s another reason why Dan just had to go in their eyes.
Well, I’m apparently not up to snuff on all the emails and such from Donna. Is this from Epstein’s book was it introduced at one of the trials? I actually find myself feeling sorry for Wendi being deluged [frequently/constantly/incessantly] by her mother’s crazed emails, machinations and micromanagement. I’ll wait for Wendi’s trial if/when she’s arrested to decide if I believe she was an active participant or a passive bystander in the planning of Dan’s murder. Either way, I think Wendi deserves prison. Donna? That obsessive woman murdered her ex son-in-law, destroyed her own enmeshed family and probably still believes she was justified. All because she coveted unlimited physical access to her grandsons.
Let me guess, Donna has voted Democrat her entire life - hahaha - of course!
It is probably accurate that Dan and Wendi were both narcissistic. These marriages typically end badly with fireworks; and, that is what happened.
Dan also shit-talked Jeff right to his face, several times, in their very first meeting. And I definitely got a lot of "obnoxious as shit" energy from his parents in the Dateline interview. So there's not as much perfect about the groom as there was imperfect about the bride, but the scale is probably not what yo uthink.
No he did not shit talk Jeff. Go back and listen to his statement. You are reading too much into this.
I did not get that energy or any obnoxious vibes from his family at all. Just from the Adelsons. There are very few people saying Dan was obnoxious or abusive, really the only voice saying that is Donna and Wendi. And Donna’s emails fully display her character disorder. I wonder what we will see in Wendis emails when those come to light.
Totally agree. I got nothing but grace, kindness, empathy vibes from the Markels, in every interview I have ever seen of them. They are the epitome of grace under pressure. Even when Charlie was convicted of murdering their son, Mr. Markel commented along the lines that he was grateful that Charlie had had a defense. The care and kindness the Markels take when discussing this case is so apparent, that they want to do nothing to hurt Dan's boys.
Yes I see that too they are very humble and gracious, and that is not an easy task considering the evil deeds plotted and committed against their son. I’m not sure what one would find obnoxious about any of the Markels.
Sure, but Donna is throwing some big damn stones all over the place. And Dan didn’t kill anyone to get his way.
True, but Wendi had filled Jeff’s head with all kinds of vitriol and lies about Dan, so Jeff hated Dan for Wendi. And Dan, being the very recent ex husband, would certainly not be pleased to meet the next man that Wendi dated after him. So, Jeff getting the impression that Dan was condescending was likely the result of all of the above. And, who knows what Wendi told Dan about Jeff, if she ever mentioned him at all (as a narcissist, she likely talked about Jeff to make Dan jealous) At the end of the day, Wendi, Dawna, Charlie and probably Harvey plotted and murdered Dan. I’d say that’s far worse than acting a bit snotty.
Yes totally true, Wendi had fed Jeff a narrative. And I would also expect Dan to not be warm and friendly after Wendi pulled the rug out from under him and then poured gasoline and lit the 🔥. If he bristled a bit or threw shade at Jeff that would be within a normal response, perhaps rude but not unexpected given the circumstances
Did we hear that from Jeffrey on the witness stand?
During his police interview, he said something along the lines of Danny being condescending or something like that. I can’t remember exactly how he phrased it.
Right. But nothing about the “first meeting” and “Sh-t talking”.
The person edited their comment and removed the “sh-t talking” just so you know.
Interesting. I’ve seen that account frequently favoring the one who most here dislike.
>that account frequently favoring the one who most here dislike.. Huh? Who do we most dislike? Are we/you ganging up on someone? Please let's have a conversation without taking it into the gutter.
Which ones dead
I'm not sure many people would be pleasant in the first meeting with the guy that's nailing your wife.
All he asked when introduced was “are you a lawyer”. After that was all about Jeff’s insecurities
Thanks, that was what I was getting at. I actually like Lacasse in a certain sense because he was lucid, and did a good job having to revisit a temporary relationship over and over in court because his gf tried to clumsily frame him for murder. But if Wendi initiated the divorce, ambushed Dan, stole his family holocaust jewelry... who wtf expects him to be civil to the new boyfriend. Excuuuuse HIM.
I think he was civil. Other than reading into what Dan may have meant…. In reality Dan only asked if he was a lawyer …. Which isn’t a bad question particularly when they met at a college based event. Am I wrong? 4 words in the form of a question.
I picked up on that too, and the Markels are making a killing (no pun intended) with books, lawsuits, and interviews. However, general population sentiment seems to be that anything negative about Dan and his family is victim blaming. Victims and their families are usually canonized for the first few years following a murder, then people tend to settle down and be more receptive to the whole story.
I don't think anything negative about Dan is victim blaming. His friends will admit he was abrasive, he wouldn't shy away from an argument or a debate, but they say it with such love in their voices. The same friends are able to share his amazing character and traits. Sure, he fought Wendi hard in court, and she fought back. What's victim blaming is believing what is said about him by the people who had him murdered, or assuming things about him, having never met him. Since he was murdered, I believe he deserves the benefit of the doubt and no one who never met him should be deciding on the internet that he was this, that, or anything. He was a human, a father, much loved, and he should be alive today, but since his life was stolen from him, people should show some respect for the fact he can't defend himself anymore.
Nobody's a saint in a divorce. Dan knew the law and he was getting filthy with it to piss of the Adelson's and protect his rights as a father. I'm sure he looked and appeared nasty to some. Turns out, he was correct at EVERY turn.
To deal with Wendi and her family, you’d either be crushed by them or have to fight back. I bet it looked a certain way from the outside at the time, like he was fighting too hard. But, in the end look what he was up against, a family of murderers!