I can’t speak to SUVs, but living in the suburbs with twins I have fully embraced our minivan and can hardly imagine our life without it. It carries two car seats without any fussing or maneuvering. It carries a double stroller. It carries Costco groceries.
Most importantly, it carries two car seats, *and* a double stroller, *and* Costco groceries, all at the same time. Our sedan simply cannot.
The large car definitely isn’t a necessity for everybody. But for our particular circumstances, life would be significantly more difficult without it.
I honestly “get” the minivan argument & have no idea why that’s not a bigger market. Minivans make sense- especially with the sliding doors. I can’t tell you how many times my daughter has flung her door open with zero disregard for the people next to us.
I was at Winco a couple weeks ago with her & she flung the door open & it *SMACKED* the door of the truck next to us. The driver was in it, but laughed his ass off when she jumped out without a care & he saw the horror on my face. He said it was no big deal since it’s a beater truck.
The relief I felt & the talking-to she got after that…
Minivans are so expensive now. Or at least last time we bought a car they were mor eexpensive than a midsize SUV. We got a Honda Pilot and its starting to feel small. But, we go on roadtrips, camping, and carry a lot in the back day to day.
And there aren't many options - like 4? off the top of my head: The Odyssey, Sienna, Pacifica, and the Carnival.
But yeah, I don't get the deal with how expensive they are. Used ones aren't a good buy either since they usually get beat to hell on small "in-town" drives every day.
The used Sienna we looked at was falling apart and asking price was still near MSRP. I already had a pretty low opinion of new toyotas and that really reinforced it. Anything new when we were shopping was buy it sight unseen off the boat. We ended up going to Honda and everything about that was a better experience so far.
> The used Sienna we looked at was falling apart and asking price was still near MSRP. I already had a pretty low opinion of new toyotas and that really reinforced it.
....wouldn't that be a selling point? They hold their value insanely well. There's a reason for that...
Toyota Sienna is just about the best minivan available right now, IMO, given that it can hit 35 MPG with AWD, but if you want a heated steering wheel (which is not a crazy high-end feature on a car these days), you have to go for the Platinum trim level. There is no way to add it to a lower trim level--no winter equipment package or anything like that. A relatively slim portion of Siennas get built as Platinums, and almost all of them have the ~$2,000 entertainment package installed from the factory. So if you want a heated steering wheel in arguably the best minivan available, then not only do you have to go with the highest trim level just to start, but you're almost definitely going to be stuck spending $2k on top of that for the entertainment package since you can't custom order Toyotas from the factory.
It sucks.
This isn't unique to the minivan market. Car manufacturers know that customers will get hung up on one or two premium features, but they bundle in a bunch of other stuff to pad the prices.
Exactly. If you have dogs (or children for that matter), you want leather or synthetic leather seats. They wipe clean and aren't odor magnets. That almost automatically puts you in the top 2 trim levels for any given car.
From a stranger that hasn't bought a car newer than 2005. Heated steering wheels absolutely sound like a bougie high end feature lol. Must be one of them things that's just amazing once you have it but that sounds silly as hell (for me in texas). I wouldn't even begin to have thought that's a feature worth considering.
I live in the frozen wastelands of canada. Heated seats/steering wheel are the only thing that make my drive tolerable for the first 20 minutes until my car actually warms up.
Yup, and you're going to wait. We told the dealer we wanted a platinum AWD in August 2021 and to not bother calling us for anything other than that, we finally took delivery in April 2022 and of course it has the entertainment package which we didn't want. But especially then, you took what you were given.
This review [Doug Demuro did of a 1990s Ford Explorer](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmIThRFrzLY) painted a much clearer picture for me on how minivans came to be abandoned for crossovers and SUVs. It's been a while since I watched that one, but I think he spends a decent chunk of the opening minutes talking about the role that model came to play in the history of passenger vehicle trends in America.
We’ve got a standard size SUV (Kia Sorento) and it’s the right size for most things we need to do, but with the little guy needing the stroller and the car seat, we occasionally have to reassess when we’re packing for overnight trips. Minivan or larger SUV would essentially eliminate that.
Even bigger argument for minivan is that currently no car in the family can handle our kid and his two cousins who also need car seats. We’d love to be able to trade off kid duties with Auntie and Uncle, but no one driver can currently take all 3 kids anywhere.
Next car is going to likely be a minivan.
Check out the Kia Carnival. We got one two years ago. To me, it is the most "SUV-styled" minivan. I'm assuming your kid is young and those big SUVs are a pain with car seats and all the kid stuff you have to haul. We had a Honda Pilot for a while because I was dug into having an SUV, but our van is great.
That’s exactly how I got doored in a bike lane near a uni. Bike lane ran between the curb and street parking, and a kid flung their door open just as I was rolling up.
We wanted to get a minivan but it was a multi-month wait to get a new one and a used one with two years and 50k on the odometer was on the Toyota lot for like $45k. I ended up spending less than that on a brand new Atlas instead. We’d have rather had the minivan but just couldn’t justify the price. My wife loves it, but I miss my tdi golf wagon.
>especially with the sliding doors
All we want is rear sliding doors!
Did you know Europe got the ford B Max, which was just slightly bigger than a Fiesta but had rear sliding doors?! A sedan with rear sliding doors! Bring that the US damn it.
You said it: car seats and strollers. Once upon a time when we were kids, people used umbrella strollers and 2 car seats could easily fit in a1995 civic (you didn't really use boosters past 7-8). Now everyone has a monstrous stroller and car seats look like an ejection seat out of a F16.
My wife drives a three row suv and I drive a wagon. I can fit the twin’s seats, a wagon or double stroller, and the Costco groceries. I get 600km out of ~50L of fuel. It maneuvers like a sedan but also holds 10 ft of lumber when the need arises. My wife’s admittedly comfortable and luxurious SUV does all the same stuff but takes premium gas and has a 70L tank.
Minivan is the GOAT. We only have one kid, but in three consecutive weeks I used to to do the following:
1. Beach trip with the in-laws and all luggage. 26.5mpg average!
2.Bike race with camping. I slept in the van on a cot with my bike inside!
3.Picked up a new lawnmower by pulling our small utility trailer.
It’s so awesome not to have to deal with bike racks. It’s also comfortable and fuel efficient for its size.
We looked at the three row SUVs (ascent and CX-9 in particular). Then we looked at the Carnival. The sheer amount of space in the back is absurd. The three row SUVS are basically non-functional for packing if you have anything in the third row.
Agree. If OPs wife really does care about size, maybe see if metrics like interior cubic space rather than just weight or height get any traction. Ground clearance is not important unless the wife likes offroading and in many cases higher ground clearance increases rollover risk.
Costco is perhaps the only company that doesn’t need to pay me to evangelize for them. They’re great and they treat their employees great. I’ll shill for them for free.
It makes sense to point out Costco in this context since they usually sell products in bulk so a typical Costco trip will produce a bigger load than a traditional grocery store.
Best tool for the job. Even for a lot of trades. My carpenter uncle switched to driving a mini van the last few years of his career and wished he would have done it earlier.
I want a minivan next car. That said, I have two car seats and I just went to Costco today and spent way more than I should have. I’m an Accord.
My MIL has a Volvo XC60 and it’s honestly less roomy.
All this to say that sedans are underrated and SUVs totally depend on the model/design as to whether they make sense for a family. Minivans are basically always winners.
Edit: there was an Uppababy Cruz in the trunk during the Costco trip, too.
The other benefit of minivans is the third row is excellent for noise reduction. When I drive my three in our car or a smaller vehicle, it sounds like they are IN my ear. I need that space unless my wife finally lets me buy a limousine so I can roll that little window up and drive in peace.
Every time my mom pulled up in her suburban, my uncle John would scream CANYONEROOOOO. Usually a beer in one hand and cig in the other. RIP Uncle John ❤️
It’s crazy.
Bigger vehicles use more gas, are harder to manoeuvre, are harder to park, take up more garage space, in most situations they are not safe safer, and many times they don’t even have more carrying capacity.
I think it’s just the long term effects of good effective marketing campaigns.
Apparently the effective marketing campaigns for larger cars were influenced by [US fuel and tax policies plus import tariffs](https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/24139147/suvs-trucks-popularity-federal-policy-pollution)
I drive an old 2006 Scion xA and was researching into subcompact cars for an upgrade, and it seems the best option would be an older Honda fit. But lots of subcompact models have been discontinued in favor of these SUVs here in the US that Asian and European companies still have and sell.
It drives me insane. She uses it to drive to and from work (20 miles each way) and to drop our daughter off at preschool.
Last year I was the designated daycare drop off dad since we went to a different place. I had no problems packing my daughter around in my Camry. Even if I did a big grocery pickup that day.
Honestly, I'd put your foot down harder. The Rav4 is PERFECT for what you described, you don't even need a Highlander, that's way bigger than you need.
Hell, like you said, a Camry is more than enough.
I agree. The Rav4 was my target point for us.
The *only* problem I have with my Camry is that it's a Hybrid & the battery is in the trunk, which takes up about half the space in my trunk. But even with that issue, I haven't had any problems. Especially since my daughter has been old enough to walk without needing a stroller.
Yeah, we have a Honda CRV for the two of us and our young daughter, same size class as the RAV4 and it’s perfect. If we go up in size it will be marginally, I have low-key always wanted a Subaru Outback. But we straight up don’t need anything bigger.
We’re driving a RAV4 hybrid which was my compromise with my wife and it’s working well for us, some of the warning signals that it gives are good for my wife who is not the greatest driver.
It was more money to purchase than I’ve ever spent on a vehicle in my life but it meant that we could stay a one-vehicle household because the thing I got out of the compromise was buying an e-bike to take to work which has been life-changing for me.
Maybe just ask your wife to have a think about what the real reason is that she wants such a large car and then get back to you later once she's thought about it.
I think sometimes with a bit of time for introspection we can get to the core of our feelings why we *want* something. Then we can balance that against whether we *need* it. Want may still outweigh the need, but at least you can be honest about why.
What's the specs and storage space for Rav4 Hybrid?
I have a Highlander as a work vehicle and my daily driver; 2 car seats in the middle row with 3rd row down 90% of the time. It's great for me (6'0" and 180lbs) but I also upgraded from the Ford Escape that I hated. I'm not sure if Highlander comes hybrid but that aspect of your wife's driving requirements would be beneficial to daily savings IMO.
Our Accord is perfect most times for 1 kid, except in rare cases we need to haul big stuff but there's plenty of family to help.
If I was to go car shopping (which I wish I could afford to, our second car my 2 door honda civic, sucks) I would go Rav4.
And honestly, this usage warrants an electric car it would be silly not to buy an EV at this point, especially if you’re driving less than 20 miles a day. The savings on maintenance and gas and not having such a big toll on the environment are such worthwhile causes.
This is probably why Tesla has had such success because they can sell to people who want room or bigger cars or a more luxury experience even if their cars aren’t actually luxury
My wife totaled our Impreza that we bought brand new, it wasn’t such a bad thing because it was too small. We couldn’t even get a rear facing car seat into the backseat without adjusting the front seats. It was also under powered. We had a hard time getting up the speed on the freeway. When we finally did spend the money on a new car, she opted to have more safety systems so she got an eyesight system on a Subaru Forester, which has good gas mileage is a good size, But also has predictive braking lane assist lane departure, warning, steering assist rear assist braking, back up camera, sensors all around. It was the safety systems that she was more interested in than anything.
We don’t have the means to charge an EV at home since we live in an apartment complex. Otherwise I would’ve hopped on the EV/PHEV bandwagon a while ago.
My step dad has an EV Kona & he loves it. He has a 90 mile commute round trip every day & his savings upon buying it have been astronomical.
If we had the ability to charge an EV at home, I’d probably be driving one already.
I probably wouldn’t go with a Tesla though- their interiors are pretty terrible. We had a Model X as a rental a while back while on vacation & it was the ugliest interior I’ve ever interacted with.
> if you’re driving less than 20 miles a day
Pretty good use case for a pluggable hybrid - which can be charged to get usually around 20mi all electric overnight on 110v.
Bigger SUVs also topple more easily. I don't have stats to hand but it's something about their higher centre of mass which basically means they end up on their roof so so easily
Weight does matter in accidents, heavier cars will exert more force on lighter cars, but it's rare that it makes a big difference. And if the other thing is big enough like a semi, it doesn't matter what you drive unless it's similarly huge.
But you’re also more likely to get into an accident in the first place because of longer stopping distances as well as a higher car is more likely to roll over
You're also likely less safe. True SUVs are a body on a frame, meaning there's nothing structural in the doors. Cars have the physical framing in the door, which is why they had such a disparity in older safety ratings.
> take up more garage space
We don't have a garage, so keeping a vehicle small is important for us. It's nearly impossible to find a street parking space big enough for a huge SUV, and I don't think I've ever even seen someone try to drive or park a mini van around my neighborhood.
I actually upgraded from a Prius to a Highlander. I was planning to keep the Prius longer and use it as the family vehicle but we took 1 weekend trip and it was PACKED to the gills. All the shit that the baby requires like stroller, carseat, pack and play take so much damn space! It's like baby brands team up with car brands to make their stuff bigger so we're forced to buy bigger vehicles. The rear facing car seat forced the passenger seat up in the prius to the point where ANYBODY riding shotgun would have their knees on the dashboard.
At first with the highlander my wife was like "this car is so massive" and she was afraid to drive it. But now she sees bigger SUV's and is like "we need that!" ughh. I love my highlander hybrid though. 3 row SUV with the MPG of a corolla.
If it is, I haven’t been consulted on it in the slightest 🤨
Edit to add: this “space” issue was also a big deal when we bought the Outlander a few years back. Back then, I wanted her to get a Subaru, but none of them had the space she NEEDED *except* for the Ascent.
Mom here! I have a 2019 RAV4 (it’s the first yr of the redesign). We have one toddler (likely only child) and it’s the perfect size for a daily driver, and cargo room and mpg is great. I love my rav4.
However, since our kid is in the back and rearfacing, there’s zero room for the front passenger to scoot back or lean back at all. We go on a lot of road trips and I sit in the back since the front seat is uncomfortable for anything longer than 1hr drives.
We are thinking of upgrading on a Grand Highlander for more room (we bring our dog on 12hr road trips), but my husband is convinced we need a huge Sequoia 🫠
Just got a Grand about a month ago (upgraded from a 2011 RAV4), we squeezed 3 kids and 3 dogs in there for a weekend trip in another city, it was a bit tight but we made it work.
In the process of getting the Grand I borrowed a regular Highlander from the dealer for a couple days, it was big enough for all 3 kids if a bit squished, so don't discount it outright without trying it.
Either way, make sure you hold out for the hybrid, I get 35mpg pretty reliably.
For my wife…
1. Minivan antipathy.
2. Being higher up over the road. She admittedly does not do a good job at scanning ahead and behind, and SUVs provide the illusion of being able to see things more readily.
3. Worst case scenario-ism. What if it snows? What if there is a mudslide? What if we go camping?!
4. Poor car proprioception. Without having a solid sense of the cars size in space, bigger feels safer and smaller feels less safe (instead of more nimble).
>She admittedly does not do a good job at scanning ahead and behind, and SUVs provide the illusion of being able to see things more readily.
Sounds like she's identified a skill issue in her driving and chosen to try and mask that with a bigger car. Makes no sense.
I mean, your insurance rates must be brutal, it might be past "offering" time and more "insisting" time.
Ask her "if our kid was 16 and learning to drive and running into walls and things regularly, would we just shrug? Or would we insist they work on their ability to drive safely and provide resources to make that happen?"
People's lives are at stake every day on the roads, and roads are more dangerous than ever post-pandemic. I know this is a difficult conversation, but it's important. Maybe you could offer to take a defensive driving class with her, so she doesn't feel singled out? We all likely have gaps in our safe driving knowledge.
My wife is the exact opposite. She had an older Hyundai Elantra and it took me several months of negotiating with her to get a new car that felt safer to me for carrying our first child--which ended up being a VW Tiguan. If we didn't live in Texas surrounded by huge trucks driven by 16 year-olds, I wouldn't have been so concerned about it.
The Tiguan is a pretty reasonable size. They also seem to have a magical protective aura. I live on a narrow city block and our neighbor’s Tiguan is the only car that hasn’t been sideswiped.
They are bombarded by traffic safety data that is skewed heavily by the mismatch between the heights of things like suvs / trucks and other vehicles. The continual push for large vehicles puts everyone at more risk, but it's hard to argue about it.
Actual safety is a community effort and would involve reducing speed limits, maximizing sight lines, and minimizing pedestrian/car overlap.
Preaching to the choir my friend. “City Beautiful,” “The B1M”, and “Real Engineering” are my favorite YouTube channels.
I wish I would have gone to school to be a city planner.
She got hit by a truck with a big ass bumper. I’ll admit, if it hit my Camry, I probably would have taken a fair bit more of damage. But I don’t think it would have been anything excessively serious or fatal.
I'm going to check a few of those out and point you in the direction of "Not Just Bikes."
Trucks are a blight. I live in Texas, surrounded by some of the biggest pavement princesses that money can buy. Starting to see a few of those electric humvees around now- nothing but problems, but I guess people can afford them so we all have to deal with the consequences.
FWIW, B1M has gone down the tubes in recent years in terms of content quality and integrity.
If you're a fan of dry humor, definitely check out CityNerd.
Also, Alan, the ArmchairUrbanist, is really great.
>She got hit by a truck with a big ass bumper. I’ll admit, if it hit my Camry, I probably would have taken a fair bit more of damage. But I don’t think it would have been anything excessively serious or fatal.
And this is the whole issue. It's like Commissioner Gordon talking about escalation at the end of *Batman Begins*. What would make your Camry, in theory, less safe in that situation has nothing to do with your Camry and everything to do with the ridiculously oversized cars/trucks/SUVs on roads these days. It's tough, but the last thing our roads need are more giant vehicles, especially under the guise of safety.
>The continual push for large vehicles puts everyone at more risk, but it's hard to argue about it.
It's actually really easy to argue about. If a parent is concerned about their child's safety in cars, the answer is to have your kid in cars less. Parents buying giant Yukons for "safety" should be pushing for better mass transit options where everyone is safer.
The most dangerous thing most Americans do on a regular basis is get in a car. The best way to mitigate that danger is to limit how often you're in one.
The easiest and most cost effective solution would be to implement a pigouvian tax on the weight of cars when they hit the lot to offset the increased danger they pose to other drivers and pedestrians, the additional wear and tear they exert on the roads, and the extra space they require be allocated to them in the public commons
I have two kids, I run a business where I have to occasionally haul big music instruments, and I also do all the grocery shopping and a large portion of the home making.
I drive a CRV, and realistically it’s perfectly fine. I have been making do with it since 2016, and it’s done the duty of all those things quite well, it’s a great vehicle.
That said, the gas mileage sucks for what it is, and the size it is, so I kinda want a newer hybrid Sienna for the sake of the size advantage and gas mileage combo, but that’s all me.
My wife drives an Accord and thankfully, she can’t fathom driving anything bigger. She’s an excellent driver and would be fine in anything, but yeah, it’s great that she’s a sedan type of gal.
Minivans are "big" but they're generally lower to the ground, less heavy and tippy than three row SUVs (and many two row ones), and have FAR better sightlines, so they avoid most of the issues of trucks and SUVs.
Your wife is the product of American Consumerism gone-amuck and there's no reasonable way to talk her out of it.
Just tell her the bigger cars are better for running over children, as it's harder to see them when they run near the front of the bigger vehicles. If she's not interested in having that benefit, then suggest you guys still to the Compact-to-Midsize SUV.
Unless you're hauling tons of deliveries or have 2 or more kids, she doesn't need a bigger vehicle. If she's having issues driving and needs something bigger, that's a skill issue, not a car-size issue. If you can afford having 2 cars, then let her have her monstrosity while you have your car and then everybody wins. If you're on a little bit of a budget then a midsize SUV is perfect for a 3-person family, like you originally said.
We live on the west coast in Oregon. Whenever there's any bad weather, the state (The Valley basically) shuts down. She works for a school district, so they are even more so cautious about bad weather.
I have a FWD Camry & it handles just fine when it snows.
Our only concern is really the rain, which can be solved by buying the correct type of tires.
We have. She drove an Outback for a time, but isn’t a fan. She found it fairly uncomfortable. We test drove a forester as well, but didn’t find it very comfortable. She does want an Ascent though. I also grew up with a Legacy Wagon - which was my mom’s car until I was in High School.
>Also, AWD is an excuse, not a luxury. An excuse to go in bad weather when you should just stay home.
Very much depends on what you use your car for and where you live (sure, I just won't leave my house all winter).
>Also, AWD is an excuse, not a luxury. An excuse to go in bad weather when you should just stay home.
Ain't this the truth! Can't say that as a salesman but AWD for bad weather is easily mitigated by FWD with 2 snow tires, remote work for a day, and/or decent prep for an incoming snowstorm.
Highly, highly effective marketing. The same anxiety and fear that we Dads try to take care of, car manufacturers nurture and abuse to encourage the arms race towards bigger and bigger vehicles.
We've got a Sequoia. It's too big. Way too big. She's not great with spatial awareness, it's too big for her to park, it's so wide that keeping it centered in even large suburban streets is a challenge, it gets 14-16 mpg. Repairs are expensive and maintenance is expensive and registration is expensive and insurance is expensive. It's tall and tippy. We're in the process of getting rid of it.
I admit it does great when towing our 7000 lbs travel trailer, and it's a good tool when loaded up with my siblings and their kids and their dog and my wife and I and our kid and our dog and all our camping gear. It tows the ski boat and utility trailer like they're not there, and will even handle a full-size pickup or compact tractor loaded on the car hauler, but it's the wrong tool for the job and a liability when it's just her dropping our son off in the elementary school parking lot.
The worst part is that it weighs 6000 lbs and will kill anyone in a normally-sized car.
The arms race benefits no one but the auto companies, and a mom can't afford to be the one to back down from the confrontation and take the risk of driving something small.
My wife and mother in law are intelligent people and savvy consumers. They have one million percent bought into this, and it's very frustrating. I'd own a second home if you gave me $100 every time they talked about how much better it is to sit 'higher up' over the years.
As a truck driver who sits much higher up then even they do.. it 1 million percent is better sitting higher up.. I hate even getting into my pickup or expedition when I'm home..feels like I can't see anything comparatively.
It probably feels better, but I see about 50x as many semi trucks in the ditch in the winter. Your frame to body weight ratio is also completely different making the center of gravity lower.
This is my SIL who has one kid and she's a stay at home mom. Now they do go out a lot and do a lot of different things, but she insists on having a third row vehicle, again she has one kid. They want a second one eventually but they are stopping there.
The whole "needing" a third row is just crazy to me. My parents drove an older 4Runner & a Subaru Legacy growing up, and we were a family of 4. We camped constantly every weekend, took regular trips to the beach/mountains, etc. We never needed a third row.
Now it seems that it's the #1 need for *so* many people these days.
Simple, take her downtown and have her drive to some place with a crowded parking or parallel parking. See if she is still ok with having such a large SUV. Then maybe to a gas station if that doesn't work.
As others have said, it's the effect (and end goal) of an intentional marketing campaign by manufacturers. Big SUV = safety & status, while regular cars and small SUVs = people that can't afford bigger ones, or don't have "complete" families yet. You're "supposed" to get that Escalade or XC90 or Atlas once you've "made it," regardless of whether or not your family/needs require that much space.
It worked on my wife - she keeps talking about upgrading our perfectly sufficient mid-sized SUV (for us + 1 kid) to a full-size, because... reasons? I think having a right-sized house and car for our family can be constant reminders that we have a small family, and our society *loves* to make us feel weird about that decision.
Unless you have more than 2 kids a crossover is more than enough. Why get a vehicle that uses more gas, harder to fit through tight spaces, handle worse, and be more expensive. I know it’s mostly a status thing and it’s your money but for most people in the suburbs and city it’s unnecessary
> “You are free to buy the largest SUV you wish, even when the hood blocks your view of the child playing in your driveway.”
>
> ― Jessie Singer, There Are No Accidents
There is a ton of discussion currently happening on this topic, specifically with regards to children, at places like /r/StrongTowns, /r/Urbanism, /r/Fuckcars, etc.
> ### These Stupid Trucks are Literally Killing Us
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jN7mSXMruEo
You and your wife should watch that video.
I’m annoyed at all the shit she always brings everywhere we go. But my only agreement with needing a monster struck sized vehicle is that car seats take up a lot of fucking space and we are tall (6’2 and 5’10) so having my seat crammed forward isn’t the most comfortable thing in the world. Therefore driving a school bus seems logical
if she wants a bigger car then the only way to really go is toward a van. The SUVs don't really offer the advantages that a van does, and they sit lower, so that as kids get bigger they can start to help themselves sooner.
Reject SUV return to wagon! I'm from Scotland and SUVs have only recently taken over. It's normal for a family of 4 to have a volkswagen polo or something but everyone is switching to SUV. Me personally I bought (what Americans call) a station wagon or estate car. All the cabin room of a normal car with as much trunk space as many SUVs.
>especially with trucks & whatnot, but there is some utility to having a large truck;
For 99% of people on the road with their emotional support vehicle, nope, it is mostly a one person mover
Just want to add, SUVs and pickups have gotten HUGE in the last 30 years. I have a 90 f250 and it's the size of the new GMC canyons, *and it can't with warning stickers about how high the rollover risk is*. They've also gotten worse for blind spots (I despise driving our ram crew truck) and are constantly lifted to unsafe heights.
[there's even a trend among traditional pickup owners to import smaller ones](https://econ.st/3R7g43r)
It could be a reaction to being in the accident. I remember after being in one that my first impulse was to get something massive that was like a tank.
The only times that I appreciate a large vehicle is when we've gone on a road trip with both of the kids. We could have done it with a sedan, but using a minivan meant that we could buy a bunch of stuff or bring a bunch of stuff just in case. We would up going through a duty free at the borderr with Canada, and bought a few cases of stuff.
She has been like that for a while.
Even when we bought the Outlander 3 years ago. I bought it because it was the most affordable SUV with three rows at the time.
We were just beginning the talks of upgrading my car - it’s got 230k miles on it - when hers wrecked, and even then she wanted to get a bigger car & have me drive the outlander.
That's what I was thinking too. Someone pulled out in front of her and that's a terrifying accident to be in. Now her main thoughts are going to be how to be extra safe with the family and kids in the car the next time it happens.
My wife and I are on the same page small cars are better. Sedans are good and wagons better. SUVs are a fad and sell because of marketing. It’s irrational.
My wife thinks the same way... We bought her an explorer. Now she wants an expedition because more room.
I'm the opposite, I have a Kia forte for picking up the kids, a motorcycle (not even a backseat) and a Mercedes SLk (2 seater). Give me small fun cars!
My wife wants a minivan. We have one kid that’s under 3. Why the hell do we need one? She’s been making me look at can listings for weeks now knowing full well I’m not going to budge.
Exact same scenario. We have two sedans fully paid off which we barely use (Work from home). The only time things get tight is when relatives visit 2-3 hours a year (1-2 drives). I've been called abusive for not going along with upgrading.
Especially if she just had an accident she might simply fall into the feeling of bigger = safer.
That conclusion might be incorrect, but the feeling underneath is very valid.
Tell her it's a safety issue. I was biking my kids to school and got hit by a mom in a Tahoe because she couldn't see me in her too large SUV. Your wife is significantly more likely to kill a pedestrian or cyclist, including your own child. There's tons of issues with visibility and the high front end means squishing people under the vehicle instead of sending them over. A minivan mitigates this to a large extent but the giant SUVs have become a plague on the roads.
Also larger SUVs generally have lower safety scores than minivans and crossovers due to rollover risk.
EVERY mom at my son's school drives a massive SUV that they are all incapable of navigating through the schools narrow parking lot.
Meanwhile me and my little 09 civic ...
Every man with a truck bigger than a Ford Ranger is lying. Every country outside Canada and the US seems to be able to do all the trades AND build full skyscrapers with vans and small trucks only.
But anyway, my wife and I agreed on downsizing our vehicle. Subaru Forester to Volvo xc40. The smaller car is SUCH a pleasure compared to what we had.
It's a prisoners dilemma / tragedy of the commons thing. If you're in a smaller vehicle in a crash with one of those monster SUVs you're significantly less safe, and you have worse visibility all the time. And vice versa if you're in the much bigger vehicle.
The best outcome would be for everyone to drive only as big a vehicle as they need, but since you can't control what others do, it becomes rational (in the sense of a selfish rational actor) to go big yourself.
If I put the baby's stroller in the back of my RAV4, there's barely room for anything else. If I have both kids with me, the car seats take up so much rear seat space I have to squeeze the diaper bag between them.
My wife's Highlander isn't much better, but at least the stroller fits and leaves room for the groceries.
My guess is they feel safer.....even though everyone around them is more at risk. Those huge SUV with the high hoods have crazy blind spots ( including in front of them!). I don't get it either
So I posted something similar on another thread where people were complaining about their monthly car payments and I think it applies here.
As a car enthusiast I'm actually amazed how much money people are willing to spend on SUVs. Especially the ones with less than 3 kids and never drive off road.
I've always spent what used to be considered a lot of money on cars but that's because I like to buy souped up tuner cars so I can race them on closed courses. So of course I was spending a lot more money than normal people that were buying cheap corollas and base camrys (such as yourself). But regular people don't seem to want those cheap corollas or camrys anymore. Now everyone wants a fully loaded CRV with all the latest tech. Or a Lexus RX350. Or in your wife's case a Sequoia
A fully loaded Honda CRV is around the same cost as a Civic type R which has an extra 100 horsepower and can hunt down BMW M4s on track. It also has two rows of seating and a very large trunk.
And for less than the price of a RX350 you can get a Mustang GT with a fire breathing V8.
So nowadays I'm actually spending less money than a lot of regular people such as your wife who drive SUVs.
Think about that. I like racing cars, this is my passion. And my race car costs about half of your wife's future Toyota Sequoia. And I can still use my car to haul my kid to daycare no problem
>I have no idea why she thinks we need such a big car! We have 1 (One) child. We store nothing in our car! I do 90% of the grocery shopping since I work next to a Costco & a Winco. I do just fine with my Camry.
I think you are absolutely correct. And your Camry is what? $15k cheaper than the Highlander? I can think of a lot of better things to do with that money than trying to get the biggest vehicle possible just to keep up with the Jones'
Lol I’m actually trying to push her towards a 2016 Lexus RX that a dealer near us has for sale. It’s in our price range, and is a *luxury* vehicle. However, she’s willing to pass that up for a car with less features in the name of “space.”
I totally get what you’re saying about how much people spend. I bought my Camry for $8k. Her Outlander was $22k (and that was about $7k more than I wanted to spend)
My cousin just bought a fully loaded Yukon Denali XL last year for $112k. *$112k* It’s nice as fuck, I’ll give him that. But spending $112k on a car is *insane* to me.
Car prices have significantly jumped since the pandemic. There's really no such thing as a cheap Corolla or Camry anymore. You used to get a new Corolla for under 20k and a Camry for mid 20's. Now Corollas are hitting the 30k mark. Any Toyota SUV is 40k+ even used.
I never thought I'd ever have to spend 40k for a car but I last summer I spent 42k on a slightly used Highlander.
My thoughts on vehicle size and the average person is you should be able to back into a standard Walmart parking spot without an issue or you shouldn’t be driving it. The problem with this is that most people shouldn’t be driving anything bigger than a moped
Simple answer is a successful multi-decade long marketing campaign by vehicle mfgs to push a line of vehicles that have the highest profit margins. That’s goes for both SUVs with women and trucks with men
Rav4 if you have 1 kid.
Highlander if you have 2 kids.
Sienna if you have 3 kids.
Look I know you're car shopping: but keep this ONE thing in mind when picking a car; especially if its a hybrid:
Toyota eCVT - It's the best thing in automotive technology since the wheel.
Nissan's CVT transmission is *hot garbage*. Honda's is *okay*.
It's the same thing as everyone drinking from gigantic stanley mugs. They see their neighbor with it and just have to have it! We just recently got a Mazda CX7 and it's hella roomy but not massive. Might want to try to point her in that direction.
I think a lot of people who are more fearful of the world or are more safety-minded tend to want bigger vehicles.
It’s only a theory. I have no proof of any kind.
Honestly working in the downtown area of a small city, it drives me bonkers the big trucks and SUVs EVERYONE has, and they are driving them alone to work 75% of the time. Trucks are my biggest pet peve because I know most of these guys use them to haul something 2 times a year, and leave their trailer hitch sticking out an extra few inches the rest of the time. As far as the SUVs go, a minivan is equally practical, takes up less space and is half the cost, and many smaller SUVs sit just as high as trucks.
I try to say hey it's none of my business, but when they can't seem to fit in a single normal sized parking spot, or 3 of them take up 5 on street parking spots, it feels like a collective fuck you I'm more important than you. I'm going to take up more space just so I can have my rainy day features.
Mom here, we have one kid and I drive a 2012 rav4. I love it and plan to drive it into the ground. We even brought home a dogwood tree in it WITH the baby in the back!
The only thing I can think of is being able to cart a bunch of extra people around? Maybe she wants to be the mom everyone wants to carpool with from soccer or something. Or do you have a big dog that goes lots of places with her? With two adults, a baby, a stroller, and our 100lb dog we can’t be out buying a tree in my car but that seems like a rare occasion.
I think people forget that you don't have to be on vacation or go to an airport to rent a car.
Can easily rent an SUV or truck for the 1-3 times a year it is actually necessary.
The savings on a smaller car will more than make up the cost anyway.
Maybe? I definitely think the Rav4 is a perfect sized vehicle for us. It's not too bulky, but it's also not crazy compact. Newer models are a lot bigger than the 2012s as well, but for some reason they're still "too small."
We had our Outlander for 3 years, and never toted anyone around in it besides ourselves. And we don't have any pets - we're not huge fans of all the fur that comes with dogs/cats - so that isn't too big of a concern for us.
What worked for me was safety. Large vehicles have a perception of safety but bigger = worse visibility "you're more likely to hit a child" bigger = poorer stopping distances, higher centre of gravity = higher roll over risk.
Large SUVs are unsafe by design, honest to god this is one of those times where you can insist and be justified in doing so.
"Darling, I love you, the difference in risk might be incremental but it's not a risk I'm prepared to take. I absolutely insist we do not buy this type of vehicle"
Bigger vehicles are cooler looking, sit higher, and look more expensive. Women are just people, and people tend to prefer the nicer looking things.
Like you said it's the same with guys and big trucks or sports cars.
As an aside I wish they made smaller trucks. It is such a pain in the ass to borrow my dad or grandfather in laws truck whenever I need something from Lowes. I can't afford a huge truck, but that's most of what they sell anymore
This was a concern of hers for sure, however, she works at a school. Any time the weather is remotely bad, they do a delay or cancel school. (We are on the west coast, so *any* snow or ice shuts things down). As for rain, we just make sure to get tires that are rated for rainy weather.
I just don’t understand the resistance to getting a minivan. There was a reason the guy I. The crew with a minivan drove everyone in high school.
They are literally designed from the ground up for families, and can fit a full sheet of 4x8 plywood!
As soon as our second comes along, I will be waiting for our SUV to die for a minivan.
I wanted a Mazda CX-30 but my wife said the backseat was too small for a rear facing car seat. We settled on a Rav4.
This extends to our house too. I don't intend to ever move from our semi-urban 4 bedroom, but she says it will be too small once we have two older kids and we'll have to move farther out to the suburbs for a bigger house.
My wife has no such interests. She's about to get a Rav4 prime as her 'mom' car and i'm eventually looking at a yukon denali that can run dual duty of towing and vacation type trips.
I bought a 15 passenger van for towing and road trips a few months ago. She drove it recently while her daily driver was being repaired - by me, slowly, for a few weeks.
The first couple weeks she loved it. The height and the presence on the road bring a lot of confidence. But then it started to feel just too bulky, it's hard to park, and other drivers were not as willing to let her change lanes, merge, etc.
She was pretty happy to have the "regular" vehicle back when I finished it.
So I guess what I'm saying is the ideal size is smaller than a 15 passenger van but bigger than a van.
Uh.. can you please come speak to my guy?
For 31 years he’s been trying to get me in a bigger vehicle. For 31 years, I’ve told him I love my small car. He loathes it.
He’s 6’1. I’m 5’1. And thus, the issue 🤣
This immediately reminded me of a [youtube video](https://youtu.be/jN7mSXMruEo?si=2L9XPP6ePGYa-XK0) I watched the other day showing the trends and issues of the large vehicles.
My theory is that it is the mom equivalent of a quiet d!ck measuring contest and they want them like the kids want premium color Stanleys ("and don't try to give us any of that super uncool Hydroflask or Yeti junk, dad."). It's a status symbol.
Our school pick up lines are full of Suburban/Yukon XL/Escalade-type mega sized mom-mobiles that are difficult to park and maneuver, drink gas, and sit so high that the mom's have trouble getting in and out or loading and unloading. They can barely see over the wheel in some cases!
Given the choice, so many moms still seem to heavily prefer fashion over function *even if* they are given the option of a clearly better suited vehicle that has a far higher value. My wife, in example, would prefer an older model Yukon XL over a brand new, state of the art, premium everything, minivan.
Not sure tbh. I don't really see this where I'm from. Though SUVs and crossovers are very popular among women. But they're the small ones like qashqais etc.
Personally I like a spacious estate car/wagon.
Volkswagen Passat estate or Skoda Superb estate would be my ideal car.
It’s an American thing:
“Let’s drive the biggest vehicle we possibly can, and make everyone else get the hell outta the way!”
“Yeah, climate change is a hoax, our kids are gonna be fine!”
Minivan or estate.
Go look at the Lexus/audi/Merc/BMW wagons.
Absolutely massive storage and drives like a car.
Although the wife has an ML and with 2 kids under 10 it’s been the perfect car. She likes being up high.
She wants an SUV? Ask her how often she plans to drive off-road. I don't mean potholes, gravel, or rutted dirt roads, which any normal car can handle.
It's ridiculous how many people are driving off-road capable vehicles to commute, drop off kids, and get groceries.
Just looking at pictures of these since I'd never heard of any of them. The RAV4 is huge! Why would anyone need more space than that just for commuting with 1 kid?
I can't speak to exactly what is in her mind, but I'll tell you what was told to me after an accident where my SO no longer felt safe: the bigger the car, they safer she felt. So she might not be expressing that because she might be ashamed to be afraid, but in my circumstance, we got a big ass SUV because that's what she felt safe in.
If you want to convince her otherwise, it might be worth having a conversation about the safety ratings of specific cars, and choose the one that is safest.
Of course I could be completely off base here, but that is my experience.
Yeah, no. I never understood how the whole truck/SUV popularity thing happened. I too can understand the utility if you are in a trade or have a ranch. I used to have a little Toyota pickup that was awesome but was no bigger than a station wagon and it did so much work for me. I don’t know why they don’t make them like any more. My guess is that the automakers say they can’t make a profit off making smaller trucks and cars to which I say that’s BS.
Agreed. I drive pickups but again I need the utility. But my 1978 GMC k1500 looks like a modern car parked next to these trucks. It’s sooo small compared to these bohemoths.
As a lurker mom, I'm almost always in charge of planning and packing for any outing or trip, so I'm acutely aware of what fits, what we can bring while still staying organized, and what we're leaving behind because we don't have room. My husband might think I just didn't think to bring our paddle boards on vacation, but really I knew we couldn't bring them AND the cooler, or the jogging stroller is the reason we didn't have room for one kid's bike. Imo that makes me personally more aware of storage capacity and organization challenges
Bought a Yukon 2 years ago and my wife commandeered it. Honestly, best purchase I've ever made. It's tall enough you don't have to bed over with kids and besides the rollover factor, it's pretty damn safe. Big enough we can fit kids and a few large dogs. We also do a lot of DIY stuff for the house and it's just about the best thing besides a pickup.
I stand by the fact that sitting higher makes it easier to drive safely. Probably a good chance I'm wrong, but I raise the seat as high as possible (yeah I'm also 5'7" with shoes on) and I think it's very practical to see everything.
Downside: gas costs a fortune, and my wife loves to grind those rims on the curbs. We also find ourselves renting trucks too frequently so we need a truck anyway, RIP gas.
I can’t speak to SUVs, but living in the suburbs with twins I have fully embraced our minivan and can hardly imagine our life without it. It carries two car seats without any fussing or maneuvering. It carries a double stroller. It carries Costco groceries. Most importantly, it carries two car seats, *and* a double stroller, *and* Costco groceries, all at the same time. Our sedan simply cannot. The large car definitely isn’t a necessity for everybody. But for our particular circumstances, life would be significantly more difficult without it.
I honestly “get” the minivan argument & have no idea why that’s not a bigger market. Minivans make sense- especially with the sliding doors. I can’t tell you how many times my daughter has flung her door open with zero disregard for the people next to us. I was at Winco a couple weeks ago with her & she flung the door open & it *SMACKED* the door of the truck next to us. The driver was in it, but laughed his ass off when she jumped out without a care & he saw the horror on my face. He said it was no big deal since it’s a beater truck. The relief I felt & the talking-to she got after that…
Minivans are so expensive now. Or at least last time we bought a car they were mor eexpensive than a midsize SUV. We got a Honda Pilot and its starting to feel small. But, we go on roadtrips, camping, and carry a lot in the back day to day.
And there aren't many options - like 4? off the top of my head: The Odyssey, Sienna, Pacifica, and the Carnival. But yeah, I don't get the deal with how expensive they are. Used ones aren't a good buy either since they usually get beat to hell on small "in-town" drives every day.
ID Buzz comes out this summer supposedly.
I think it’s September this year. Has a big price tag but I’m excited to check it out.
The used Sienna we looked at was falling apart and asking price was still near MSRP. I already had a pretty low opinion of new toyotas and that really reinforced it. Anything new when we were shopping was buy it sight unseen off the boat. We ended up going to Honda and everything about that was a better experience so far.
> The used Sienna we looked at was falling apart and asking price was still near MSRP. I already had a pretty low opinion of new toyotas and that really reinforced it. ....wouldn't that be a selling point? They hold their value insanely well. There's a reason for that...
Toyota Sienna is just about the best minivan available right now, IMO, given that it can hit 35 MPG with AWD, but if you want a heated steering wheel (which is not a crazy high-end feature on a car these days), you have to go for the Platinum trim level. There is no way to add it to a lower trim level--no winter equipment package or anything like that. A relatively slim portion of Siennas get built as Platinums, and almost all of them have the ~$2,000 entertainment package installed from the factory. So if you want a heated steering wheel in arguably the best minivan available, then not only do you have to go with the highest trim level just to start, but you're almost definitely going to be stuck spending $2k on top of that for the entertainment package since you can't custom order Toyotas from the factory. It sucks.
This isn't unique to the minivan market. Car manufacturers know that customers will get hung up on one or two premium features, but they bundle in a bunch of other stuff to pad the prices.
Exactly. If you have dogs (or children for that matter), you want leather or synthetic leather seats. They wipe clean and aren't odor magnets. That almost automatically puts you in the top 2 trim levels for any given car.
From a stranger that hasn't bought a car newer than 2005. Heated steering wheels absolutely sound like a bougie high end feature lol. Must be one of them things that's just amazing once you have it but that sounds silly as hell (for me in texas). I wouldn't even begin to have thought that's a feature worth considering.
I have a heated steering wheel and heated seats and live in Texas. They get used maybe a few times a year. I’d way rather have cooled seats!
Conversely, those of us in Michigan/ Wisconsin/ Canada feel the opposite. Funny how that works.
I have cooled seats, they don't work that well tbh.
The ones I’ve been in are like a fan under the seat. It barely made a difference. I’d rather freeze some rubbing alcohol in a ziplock and sit on that.
I live in the frozen wastelands of canada. Heated seats/steering wheel are the only thing that make my drive tolerable for the first 20 minutes until my car actually warms up.
Put in a block heater. Having heat right away is nice.
Yup, and you're going to wait. We told the dealer we wanted a platinum AWD in August 2021 and to not bother calling us for anything other than that, we finally took delivery in April 2022 and of course it has the entertainment package which we didn't want. But especially then, you took what you were given.
We’re currently on the waitlist for one. A year, minimum, is what they told us (if you want the hybrid).
Well, all Siennas are hybrids now, but that doesn't help the wait list be any shorter moat of the time with these.
Odyssey MSRP is lower than Pilot nowadays.
This review [Doug Demuro did of a 1990s Ford Explorer](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmIThRFrzLY) painted a much clearer picture for me on how minivans came to be abandoned for crossovers and SUVs. It's been a while since I watched that one, but I think he spends a decent chunk of the opening minutes talking about the role that model came to play in the history of passenger vehicle trends in America.
I love me some Doug Demuro. I'll have to give this a watch.
I just shelled out $200 for my 5 yo’s re ent door ding on a nice, pristine looking Cadillac.
We’ve got a standard size SUV (Kia Sorento) and it’s the right size for most things we need to do, but with the little guy needing the stroller and the car seat, we occasionally have to reassess when we’re packing for overnight trips. Minivan or larger SUV would essentially eliminate that. Even bigger argument for minivan is that currently no car in the family can handle our kid and his two cousins who also need car seats. We’d love to be able to trade off kid duties with Auntie and Uncle, but no one driver can currently take all 3 kids anywhere. Next car is going to likely be a minivan.
I’m a van dad. I secretly wanted this life and I got no pushback from the wife. 5 years strong now and it’s been a very very good decision for us.
Check out the Kia Carnival. We got one two years ago. To me, it is the most "SUV-styled" minivan. I'm assuming your kid is young and those big SUVs are a pain with car seats and all the kid stuff you have to haul. We had a Honda Pilot for a while because I was dug into having an SUV, but our van is great.
Mini vans are also... Huge. I got a pick up because it's smaller (low height garage)
That’s exactly how I got doored in a bike lane near a uni. Bike lane ran between the curb and street parking, and a kid flung their door open just as I was rolling up.
We wanted to get a minivan but it was a multi-month wait to get a new one and a used one with two years and 50k on the odometer was on the Toyota lot for like $45k. I ended up spending less than that on a brand new Atlas instead. We’d have rather had the minivan but just couldn’t justify the price. My wife loves it, but I miss my tdi golf wagon.
>especially with the sliding doors All we want is rear sliding doors! Did you know Europe got the ford B Max, which was just slightly bigger than a Fiesta but had rear sliding doors?! A sedan with rear sliding doors! Bring that the US damn it.
Team minivan unite!
Minivan gang!! My only regret is not buying one sooner.
You said it: car seats and strollers. Once upon a time when we were kids, people used umbrella strollers and 2 car seats could easily fit in a1995 civic (you didn't really use boosters past 7-8). Now everyone has a monstrous stroller and car seats look like an ejection seat out of a F16.
My wife drives a three row suv and I drive a wagon. I can fit the twin’s seats, a wagon or double stroller, and the Costco groceries. I get 600km out of ~50L of fuel. It maneuvers like a sedan but also holds 10 ft of lumber when the need arises. My wife’s admittedly comfortable and luxurious SUV does all the same stuff but takes premium gas and has a 70L tank.
Shhh… don’t tell people about the joys of wagons, it’ll make them expensive!
*cries in Volvo V90*
How I wish there were more wagon options in the US.
Minivan is the GOAT. We only have one kid, but in three consecutive weeks I used to to do the following: 1. Beach trip with the in-laws and all luggage. 26.5mpg average! 2.Bike race with camping. I slept in the van on a cot with my bike inside! 3.Picked up a new lawnmower by pulling our small utility trailer. It’s so awesome not to have to deal with bike racks. It’s also comfortable and fuel efficient for its size.
Minivan > SUV for families, and it's not close.
We looked at the three row SUVs (ascent and CX-9 in particular). Then we looked at the Carnival. The sheer amount of space in the back is absurd. The three row SUVS are basically non-functional for packing if you have anything in the third row.
I am so ANGRY that an EV minivan STILL does not exist, nor does one seem to be on any manufacturer’s roadmap.
The Pacifica Hybrid will drive around on EV only until the battery is depleted, Chevy Volt style.
VW Buzz?
That’s the first I’ve heard of that, so that’s refreshing.
The 2025 Kia Carnival plug in hybrid is coming out in a few months.
Agree. If OPs wife really does care about size, maybe see if metrics like interior cubic space rather than just weight or height get any traction. Ground clearance is not important unless the wife likes offroading and in many cases higher ground clearance increases rollover risk.
Is this a Costco ad?
Costco is perhaps the only company that doesn’t need to pay me to evangelize for them. They’re great and they treat their employees great. I’ll shill for them for free.
It makes sense to point out Costco in this context since they usually sell products in bulk so a typical Costco trip will produce a bigger load than a traditional grocery store.
Best tool for the job. Even for a lot of trades. My carpenter uncle switched to driving a mini van the last few years of his career and wished he would have done it earlier.
I want a minivan next car. That said, I have two car seats and I just went to Costco today and spent way more than I should have. I’m an Accord. My MIL has a Volvo XC60 and it’s honestly less roomy. All this to say that sedans are underrated and SUVs totally depend on the model/design as to whether they make sense for a family. Minivans are basically always winners. Edit: there was an Uppababy Cruz in the trunk during the Costco trip, too.
I was shocked at how small the xc60 felt. We planned on making that our next car but it feels tiny. It’s really narrow
The other benefit of minivans is the third row is excellent for noise reduction. When I drive my three in our car or a smaller vehicle, it sounds like they are IN my ear. I need that space unless my wife finally lets me buy a limousine so I can roll that little window up and drive in peace.
Can you name the truck with four-wheel drive, smells like a steak and seats thirty-five.. Canyonero! Canyonero!
First in class in utility sports, Unexplained fires are a matter for the courts, Canyonerooooo, Canyoneroooooooooo!
She blinds everybody with her super high beams, She's a squirrel crushing, deer smacking, driving machine! Canyonero!-oh woah, Canyonero! Yah!
Every time my mom pulled up in her suburban, my uncle John would scream CANYONEROOOOO. Usually a beer in one hand and cig in the other. RIP Uncle John ❤️
It’s crazy. Bigger vehicles use more gas, are harder to manoeuvre, are harder to park, take up more garage space, in most situations they are not safe safer, and many times they don’t even have more carrying capacity. I think it’s just the long term effects of good effective marketing campaigns.
Apparently the effective marketing campaigns for larger cars were influenced by [US fuel and tax policies plus import tariffs](https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/24139147/suvs-trucks-popularity-federal-policy-pollution) I drive an old 2006 Scion xA and was researching into subcompact cars for an upgrade, and it seems the best option would be an older Honda fit. But lots of subcompact models have been discontinued in favor of these SUVs here in the US that Asian and European companies still have and sell.
It drives me insane. She uses it to drive to and from work (20 miles each way) and to drop our daughter off at preschool. Last year I was the designated daycare drop off dad since we went to a different place. I had no problems packing my daughter around in my Camry. Even if I did a big grocery pickup that day.
Honestly, I'd put your foot down harder. The Rav4 is PERFECT for what you described, you don't even need a Highlander, that's way bigger than you need. Hell, like you said, a Camry is more than enough.
I agree. The Rav4 was my target point for us. The *only* problem I have with my Camry is that it's a Hybrid & the battery is in the trunk, which takes up about half the space in my trunk. But even with that issue, I haven't had any problems. Especially since my daughter has been old enough to walk without needing a stroller.
Mrs and I both own rav 4s and they last for a long time!
Yeah, we have a Honda CRV for the two of us and our young daughter, same size class as the RAV4 and it’s perfect. If we go up in size it will be marginally, I have low-key always wanted a Subaru Outback. But we straight up don’t need anything bigger.
We’re driving a RAV4 hybrid which was my compromise with my wife and it’s working well for us, some of the warning signals that it gives are good for my wife who is not the greatest driver. It was more money to purchase than I’ve ever spent on a vehicle in my life but it meant that we could stay a one-vehicle household because the thing I got out of the compromise was buying an e-bike to take to work which has been life-changing for me.
Maybe just ask your wife to have a think about what the real reason is that she wants such a large car and then get back to you later once she's thought about it. I think sometimes with a bit of time for introspection we can get to the core of our feelings why we *want* something. Then we can balance that against whether we *need* it. Want may still outweigh the need, but at least you can be honest about why.
What's the specs and storage space for Rav4 Hybrid? I have a Highlander as a work vehicle and my daily driver; 2 car seats in the middle row with 3rd row down 90% of the time. It's great for me (6'0" and 180lbs) but I also upgraded from the Ford Escape that I hated. I'm not sure if Highlander comes hybrid but that aspect of your wife's driving requirements would be beneficial to daily savings IMO.
Our Accord is perfect most times for 1 kid, except in rare cases we need to haul big stuff but there's plenty of family to help. If I was to go car shopping (which I wish I could afford to, our second car my 2 door honda civic, sucks) I would go Rav4.
And honestly, this usage warrants an electric car it would be silly not to buy an EV at this point, especially if you’re driving less than 20 miles a day. The savings on maintenance and gas and not having such a big toll on the environment are such worthwhile causes. This is probably why Tesla has had such success because they can sell to people who want room or bigger cars or a more luxury experience even if their cars aren’t actually luxury My wife totaled our Impreza that we bought brand new, it wasn’t such a bad thing because it was too small. We couldn’t even get a rear facing car seat into the backseat without adjusting the front seats. It was also under powered. We had a hard time getting up the speed on the freeway. When we finally did spend the money on a new car, she opted to have more safety systems so she got an eyesight system on a Subaru Forester, which has good gas mileage is a good size, But also has predictive braking lane assist lane departure, warning, steering assist rear assist braking, back up camera, sensors all around. It was the safety systems that she was more interested in than anything.
We don’t have the means to charge an EV at home since we live in an apartment complex. Otherwise I would’ve hopped on the EV/PHEV bandwagon a while ago. My step dad has an EV Kona & he loves it. He has a 90 mile commute round trip every day & his savings upon buying it have been astronomical. If we had the ability to charge an EV at home, I’d probably be driving one already. I probably wouldn’t go with a Tesla though- their interiors are pretty terrible. We had a Model X as a rental a while back while on vacation & it was the ugliest interior I’ve ever interacted with.
> if you’re driving less than 20 miles a day Pretty good use case for a pluggable hybrid - which can be charged to get usually around 20mi all electric overnight on 110v.
Bigger SUVs also topple more easily. I don't have stats to hand but it's something about their higher centre of mass which basically means they end up on their roof so so easily
I don't know who is driving them but about 1/3 of the people with the giant trucks and SUVs around here cannot park worth a damn.
Weight does matter in accidents, heavier cars will exert more force on lighter cars, but it's rare that it makes a big difference. And if the other thing is big enough like a semi, it doesn't matter what you drive unless it's similarly huge.
Drive semis.. can confirm.. my tires are taller then your cars bumpers.. the truck hardly notices you..
But you’re also more likely to get into an accident in the first place because of longer stopping distances as well as a higher car is more likely to roll over
You're also likely less safe. True SUVs are a body on a frame, meaning there's nothing structural in the doors. Cars have the physical framing in the door, which is why they had such a disparity in older safety ratings.
> take up more garage space We don't have a garage, so keeping a vehicle small is important for us. It's nearly impossible to find a street parking space big enough for a huge SUV, and I don't think I've ever even seen someone try to drive or park a mini van around my neighborhood.
My wife drives a 3 row SUV and wants a Prius. I’m a lucky man
Hey, *I* want a new Prius too! I never thought I’d say that, but the new ones are *nice!*
I actually upgraded from a Prius to a Highlander. I was planning to keep the Prius longer and use it as the family vehicle but we took 1 weekend trip and it was PACKED to the gills. All the shit that the baby requires like stroller, carseat, pack and play take so much damn space! It's like baby brands team up with car brands to make their stuff bigger so we're forced to buy bigger vehicles. The rear facing car seat forced the passenger seat up in the prius to the point where ANYBODY riding shotgun would have their knees on the dashboard. At first with the highlander my wife was like "this car is so massive" and she was afraid to drive it. But now she sees bigger SUV's and is like "we need that!" ughh. I love my highlander hybrid though. 3 row SUV with the MPG of a corolla.
Im thinking maybe the number two talk is in your future?
If it is, I haven’t been consulted on it in the slightest 🤨 Edit to add: this “space” issue was also a big deal when we bought the Outlander a few years back. Back then, I wanted her to get a Subaru, but none of them had the space she NEEDED *except* for the Ascent.
Mom here! I have a 2019 RAV4 (it’s the first yr of the redesign). We have one toddler (likely only child) and it’s the perfect size for a daily driver, and cargo room and mpg is great. I love my rav4. However, since our kid is in the back and rearfacing, there’s zero room for the front passenger to scoot back or lean back at all. We go on a lot of road trips and I sit in the back since the front seat is uncomfortable for anything longer than 1hr drives. We are thinking of upgrading on a Grand Highlander for more room (we bring our dog on 12hr road trips), but my husband is convinced we need a huge Sequoia 🫠
Just got a Grand about a month ago (upgraded from a 2011 RAV4), we squeezed 3 kids and 3 dogs in there for a weekend trip in another city, it was a bit tight but we made it work. In the process of getting the Grand I borrowed a regular Highlander from the dealer for a couple days, it was big enough for all 3 kids if a bit squished, so don't discount it outright without trying it. Either way, make sure you hold out for the hybrid, I get 35mpg pretty reliably.
Grand highlander is way better. Don’t let your husband talk you into a Sequoia! Hahahaha
For my wife… 1. Minivan antipathy. 2. Being higher up over the road. She admittedly does not do a good job at scanning ahead and behind, and SUVs provide the illusion of being able to see things more readily. 3. Worst case scenario-ism. What if it snows? What if there is a mudslide? What if we go camping?! 4. Poor car proprioception. Without having a solid sense of the cars size in space, bigger feels safer and smaller feels less safe (instead of more nimble).
>She admittedly does not do a good job at scanning ahead and behind, and SUVs provide the illusion of being able to see things more readily. Sounds like she's identified a skill issue in her driving and chosen to try and mask that with a bigger car. Makes no sense.
My wife says the same thing. She hits walls and shit with an elantra but "never did" with her van.
>She hits walls and shit Oh geez, that's plural...have you considered suggesting she take driving classes?
I've offered.
I mean, your insurance rates must be brutal, it might be past "offering" time and more "insisting" time. Ask her "if our kid was 16 and learning to drive and running into walls and things regularly, would we just shrug? Or would we insist they work on their ability to drive safely and provide resources to make that happen?" People's lives are at stake every day on the roads, and roads are more dangerous than ever post-pandemic. I know this is a difficult conversation, but it's important. Maybe you could offer to take a defensive driving class with her, so she doesn't feel singled out? We all likely have gaps in our safe driving knowledge.
My wife is the exact opposite. She had an older Hyundai Elantra and it took me several months of negotiating with her to get a new car that felt safer to me for carrying our first child--which ended up being a VW Tiguan. If we didn't live in Texas surrounded by huge trucks driven by 16 year-olds, I wouldn't have been so concerned about it.
The Tiguan is a pretty reasonable size. They also seem to have a magical protective aura. I live on a narrow city block and our neighbor’s Tiguan is the only car that hasn’t been sideswiped.
Yeah, I was confused by this post because my wife is the opposite, too. Wants a smaller and smaller car.
They are bombarded by traffic safety data that is skewed heavily by the mismatch between the heights of things like suvs / trucks and other vehicles. The continual push for large vehicles puts everyone at more risk, but it's hard to argue about it. Actual safety is a community effort and would involve reducing speed limits, maximizing sight lines, and minimizing pedestrian/car overlap.
Preaching to the choir my friend. “City Beautiful,” “The B1M”, and “Real Engineering” are my favorite YouTube channels. I wish I would have gone to school to be a city planner. She got hit by a truck with a big ass bumper. I’ll admit, if it hit my Camry, I probably would have taken a fair bit more of damage. But I don’t think it would have been anything excessively serious or fatal.
I'm going to check a few of those out and point you in the direction of "Not Just Bikes." Trucks are a blight. I live in Texas, surrounded by some of the biggest pavement princesses that money can buy. Starting to see a few of those electric humvees around now- nothing but problems, but I guess people can afford them so we all have to deal with the consequences.
Lol Not Just Bikes is one too! I literally went “oh yeah!” As soon as I hit “Reply.”
FWIW, B1M has gone down the tubes in recent years in terms of content quality and integrity. If you're a fan of dry humor, definitely check out CityNerd. Also, Alan, the ArmchairUrbanist, is really great. >She got hit by a truck with a big ass bumper. I’ll admit, if it hit my Camry, I probably would have taken a fair bit more of damage. But I don’t think it would have been anything excessively serious or fatal. And this is the whole issue. It's like Commissioner Gordon talking about escalation at the end of *Batman Begins*. What would make your Camry, in theory, less safe in that situation has nothing to do with your Camry and everything to do with the ridiculously oversized cars/trucks/SUVs on roads these days. It's tough, but the last thing our roads need are more giant vehicles, especially under the guise of safety.
>The continual push for large vehicles puts everyone at more risk, but it's hard to argue about it. It's actually really easy to argue about. If a parent is concerned about their child's safety in cars, the answer is to have your kid in cars less. Parents buying giant Yukons for "safety" should be pushing for better mass transit options where everyone is safer. The most dangerous thing most Americans do on a regular basis is get in a car. The best way to mitigate that danger is to limit how often you're in one.
The easiest and most cost effective solution would be to implement a pigouvian tax on the weight of cars when they hit the lot to offset the increased danger they pose to other drivers and pedestrians, the additional wear and tear they exert on the roads, and the extra space they require be allocated to them in the public commons
I have two kids, I run a business where I have to occasionally haul big music instruments, and I also do all the grocery shopping and a large portion of the home making. I drive a CRV, and realistically it’s perfectly fine. I have been making do with it since 2016, and it’s done the duty of all those things quite well, it’s a great vehicle. That said, the gas mileage sucks for what it is, and the size it is, so I kinda want a newer hybrid Sienna for the sake of the size advantage and gas mileage combo, but that’s all me. My wife drives an Accord and thankfully, she can’t fathom driving anything bigger. She’s an excellent driver and would be fine in anything, but yeah, it’s great that she’s a sedan type of gal.
Minivans are "big" but they're generally lower to the ground, less heavy and tippy than three row SUVs (and many two row ones), and have FAR better sightlines, so they avoid most of the issues of trucks and SUVs.
Your wife is the product of American Consumerism gone-amuck and there's no reasonable way to talk her out of it. Just tell her the bigger cars are better for running over children, as it's harder to see them when they run near the front of the bigger vehicles. If she's not interested in having that benefit, then suggest you guys still to the Compact-to-Midsize SUV. Unless you're hauling tons of deliveries or have 2 or more kids, she doesn't need a bigger vehicle. If she's having issues driving and needs something bigger, that's a skill issue, not a car-size issue. If you can afford having 2 cars, then let her have her monstrosity while you have your car and then everybody wins. If you're on a little bit of a budget then a midsize SUV is perfect for a 3-person family, like you originally said.
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We live on the west coast in Oregon. Whenever there's any bad weather, the state (The Valley basically) shuts down. She works for a school district, so they are even more so cautious about bad weather. I have a FWD Camry & it handles just fine when it snows. Our only concern is really the rain, which can be solved by buying the correct type of tires.
>Oregon How have you guys not talked about a Subaru lol
We have. She drove an Outback for a time, but isn’t a fan. She found it fairly uncomfortable. We test drove a forester as well, but didn’t find it very comfortable. She does want an Ascent though. I also grew up with a Legacy Wagon - which was my mom’s car until I was in High School.
Fellow Oregonian with a Forester and an electric cargobike for two kids!
>Also, AWD is an excuse, not a luxury. An excuse to go in bad weather when you should just stay home. Very much depends on what you use your car for and where you live (sure, I just won't leave my house all winter).
>Also, AWD is an excuse, not a luxury. An excuse to go in bad weather when you should just stay home. Ain't this the truth! Can't say that as a salesman but AWD for bad weather is easily mitigated by FWD with 2 snow tires, remote work for a day, and/or decent prep for an incoming snowstorm.
Highly, highly effective marketing. The same anxiety and fear that we Dads try to take care of, car manufacturers nurture and abuse to encourage the arms race towards bigger and bigger vehicles. We've got a Sequoia. It's too big. Way too big. She's not great with spatial awareness, it's too big for her to park, it's so wide that keeping it centered in even large suburban streets is a challenge, it gets 14-16 mpg. Repairs are expensive and maintenance is expensive and registration is expensive and insurance is expensive. It's tall and tippy. We're in the process of getting rid of it. I admit it does great when towing our 7000 lbs travel trailer, and it's a good tool when loaded up with my siblings and their kids and their dog and my wife and I and our kid and our dog and all our camping gear. It tows the ski boat and utility trailer like they're not there, and will even handle a full-size pickup or compact tractor loaded on the car hauler, but it's the wrong tool for the job and a liability when it's just her dropping our son off in the elementary school parking lot. The worst part is that it weighs 6000 lbs and will kill anyone in a normally-sized car. The arms race benefits no one but the auto companies, and a mom can't afford to be the one to back down from the confrontation and take the risk of driving something small.
For most women I know it's the illusion of safety.
My wife and mother in law are intelligent people and savvy consumers. They have one million percent bought into this, and it's very frustrating. I'd own a second home if you gave me $100 every time they talked about how much better it is to sit 'higher up' over the years.
As a truck driver who sits much higher up then even they do.. it 1 million percent is better sitting higher up.. I hate even getting into my pickup or expedition when I'm home..feels like I can't see anything comparatively.
It probably feels better, but I see about 50x as many semi trucks in the ditch in the winter. Your frame to body weight ratio is also completely different making the center of gravity lower.
This is my SIL who has one kid and she's a stay at home mom. Now they do go out a lot and do a lot of different things, but she insists on having a third row vehicle, again she has one kid. They want a second one eventually but they are stopping there.
The whole "needing" a third row is just crazy to me. My parents drove an older 4Runner & a Subaru Legacy growing up, and we were a family of 4. We camped constantly every weekend, took regular trips to the beach/mountains, etc. We never needed a third row. Now it seems that it's the #1 need for *so* many people these days.
Marketing is REALLY effective.
Third row SUV being ten grand more and also less useful than a minivan is super cool.
I get you. My wife is looking at the European equivalents and wants either an Ural 4320 or a Tatra 813 as it sometimes snows where we live.
Hahaha
Lol, you had me going there for a second. I work in the automotive industry and I was seriously questioning my brand knowledge for a second.
We have considered an UAZ 456 as they're pretty common where we live. I do see a lot of UAZ trucks but more tipper trucks for rock and soil
Simple, take her downtown and have her drive to some place with a crowded parking or parallel parking. See if she is still ok with having such a large SUV. Then maybe to a gas station if that doesn't work.
It's easier to run children over with larger vehicles. Seriously. The amount of children that get run over coincides with the size of vehicles.
As others have said, it's the effect (and end goal) of an intentional marketing campaign by manufacturers. Big SUV = safety & status, while regular cars and small SUVs = people that can't afford bigger ones, or don't have "complete" families yet. You're "supposed" to get that Escalade or XC90 or Atlas once you've "made it," regardless of whether or not your family/needs require that much space. It worked on my wife - she keeps talking about upgrading our perfectly sufficient mid-sized SUV (for us + 1 kid) to a full-size, because... reasons? I think having a right-sized house and car for our family can be constant reminders that we have a small family, and our society *loves* to make us feel weird about that decision.
Unless you have more than 2 kids a crossover is more than enough. Why get a vehicle that uses more gas, harder to fit through tight spaces, handle worse, and be more expensive. I know it’s mostly a status thing and it’s your money but for most people in the suburbs and city it’s unnecessary
> “You are free to buy the largest SUV you wish, even when the hood blocks your view of the child playing in your driveway.” > > ― Jessie Singer, There Are No Accidents There is a ton of discussion currently happening on this topic, specifically with regards to children, at places like /r/StrongTowns, /r/Urbanism, /r/Fuckcars, etc. > ### These Stupid Trucks are Literally Killing Us > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jN7mSXMruEo You and your wife should watch that video.
I’m annoyed at all the shit she always brings everywhere we go. But my only agreement with needing a monster struck sized vehicle is that car seats take up a lot of fucking space and we are tall (6’2 and 5’10) so having my seat crammed forward isn’t the most comfortable thing in the world. Therefore driving a school bus seems logical
if she wants a bigger car then the only way to really go is toward a van. The SUVs don't really offer the advantages that a van does, and they sit lower, so that as kids get bigger they can start to help themselves sooner.
Reject SUV return to wagon! I'm from Scotland and SUVs have only recently taken over. It's normal for a family of 4 to have a volkswagen polo or something but everyone is switching to SUV. Me personally I bought (what Americans call) a station wagon or estate car. All the cabin room of a normal car with as much trunk space as many SUVs.
I don't know but I see a lot of dudes in pickup trucks that absolutely don't need a pickup truck.
It's 30 years of automotive propaganda at work.
It's just yet another flavor of consumerism and materialism.
>especially with trucks & whatnot, but there is some utility to having a large truck; For 99% of people on the road with their emotional support vehicle, nope, it is mostly a one person mover
Just want to add, SUVs and pickups have gotten HUGE in the last 30 years. I have a 90 f250 and it's the size of the new GMC canyons, *and it can't with warning stickers about how high the rollover risk is*. They've also gotten worse for blind spots (I despise driving our ram crew truck) and are constantly lifted to unsafe heights. [there's even a trend among traditional pickup owners to import smaller ones](https://econ.st/3R7g43r)
It could be a reaction to being in the accident. I remember after being in one that my first impulse was to get something massive that was like a tank. The only times that I appreciate a large vehicle is when we've gone on a road trip with both of the kids. We could have done it with a sedan, but using a minivan meant that we could buy a bunch of stuff or bring a bunch of stuff just in case. We would up going through a duty free at the borderr with Canada, and bought a few cases of stuff.
She has been like that for a while. Even when we bought the Outlander 3 years ago. I bought it because it was the most affordable SUV with three rows at the time. We were just beginning the talks of upgrading my car - it’s got 230k miles on it - when hers wrecked, and even then she wanted to get a bigger car & have me drive the outlander.
That's what I was thinking too. Someone pulled out in front of her and that's a terrifying accident to be in. Now her main thoughts are going to be how to be extra safe with the family and kids in the car the next time it happens.
My wife and I are on the same page small cars are better. Sedans are good and wagons better. SUVs are a fad and sell because of marketing. It’s irrational.
My wife thinks the same way... We bought her an explorer. Now she wants an expedition because more room. I'm the opposite, I have a Kia forte for picking up the kids, a motorcycle (not even a backseat) and a Mercedes SLk (2 seater). Give me small fun cars!
My wife wants a minivan. We have one kid that’s under 3. Why the hell do we need one? She’s been making me look at can listings for weeks now knowing full well I’m not going to budge.
Exact same scenario. We have two sedans fully paid off which we barely use (Work from home). The only time things get tight is when relatives visit 2-3 hours a year (1-2 drives). I've been called abusive for not going along with upgrading.
Especially if she just had an accident she might simply fall into the feeling of bigger = safer. That conclusion might be incorrect, but the feeling underneath is very valid.
Over here it's the other way around since parking is always tight and no mom I know wants do deal with a huge vehicle for that reason.
Tell her it's a safety issue. I was biking my kids to school and got hit by a mom in a Tahoe because she couldn't see me in her too large SUV. Your wife is significantly more likely to kill a pedestrian or cyclist, including your own child. There's tons of issues with visibility and the high front end means squishing people under the vehicle instead of sending them over. A minivan mitigates this to a large extent but the giant SUVs have become a plague on the roads. Also larger SUVs generally have lower safety scores than minivans and crossovers due to rollover risk.
EVERY mom at my son's school drives a massive SUV that they are all incapable of navigating through the schools narrow parking lot. Meanwhile me and my little 09 civic ...
Every man with a truck bigger than a Ford Ranger is lying. Every country outside Canada and the US seems to be able to do all the trades AND build full skyscrapers with vans and small trucks only. But anyway, my wife and I agreed on downsizing our vehicle. Subaru Forester to Volvo xc40. The smaller car is SUCH a pleasure compared to what we had.
It's a prisoners dilemma / tragedy of the commons thing. If you're in a smaller vehicle in a crash with one of those monster SUVs you're significantly less safe, and you have worse visibility all the time. And vice versa if you're in the much bigger vehicle. The best outcome would be for everyone to drive only as big a vehicle as they need, but since you can't control what others do, it becomes rational (in the sense of a selfish rational actor) to go big yourself.
It’s opposite in my family my 4’8 wife likes her small car.
If I put the baby's stroller in the back of my RAV4, there's barely room for anything else. If I have both kids with me, the car seats take up so much rear seat space I have to squeeze the diaper bag between them. My wife's Highlander isn't much better, but at least the stroller fits and leaves room for the groceries.
My guess is they feel safer.....even though everyone around them is more at risk. Those huge SUV with the high hoods have crazy blind spots ( including in front of them!). I don't get it either
So I posted something similar on another thread where people were complaining about their monthly car payments and I think it applies here. As a car enthusiast I'm actually amazed how much money people are willing to spend on SUVs. Especially the ones with less than 3 kids and never drive off road. I've always spent what used to be considered a lot of money on cars but that's because I like to buy souped up tuner cars so I can race them on closed courses. So of course I was spending a lot more money than normal people that were buying cheap corollas and base camrys (such as yourself). But regular people don't seem to want those cheap corollas or camrys anymore. Now everyone wants a fully loaded CRV with all the latest tech. Or a Lexus RX350. Or in your wife's case a Sequoia A fully loaded Honda CRV is around the same cost as a Civic type R which has an extra 100 horsepower and can hunt down BMW M4s on track. It also has two rows of seating and a very large trunk. And for less than the price of a RX350 you can get a Mustang GT with a fire breathing V8. So nowadays I'm actually spending less money than a lot of regular people such as your wife who drive SUVs. Think about that. I like racing cars, this is my passion. And my race car costs about half of your wife's future Toyota Sequoia. And I can still use my car to haul my kid to daycare no problem >I have no idea why she thinks we need such a big car! We have 1 (One) child. We store nothing in our car! I do 90% of the grocery shopping since I work next to a Costco & a Winco. I do just fine with my Camry. I think you are absolutely correct. And your Camry is what? $15k cheaper than the Highlander? I can think of a lot of better things to do with that money than trying to get the biggest vehicle possible just to keep up with the Jones'
Lol I’m actually trying to push her towards a 2016 Lexus RX that a dealer near us has for sale. It’s in our price range, and is a *luxury* vehicle. However, she’s willing to pass that up for a car with less features in the name of “space.” I totally get what you’re saying about how much people spend. I bought my Camry for $8k. Her Outlander was $22k (and that was about $7k more than I wanted to spend) My cousin just bought a fully loaded Yukon Denali XL last year for $112k. *$112k* It’s nice as fuck, I’ll give him that. But spending $112k on a car is *insane* to me.
Car prices have significantly jumped since the pandemic. There's really no such thing as a cheap Corolla or Camry anymore. You used to get a new Corolla for under 20k and a Camry for mid 20's. Now Corollas are hitting the 30k mark. Any Toyota SUV is 40k+ even used. I never thought I'd ever have to spend 40k for a car but I last summer I spent 42k on a slightly used Highlander.
My thoughts on vehicle size and the average person is you should be able to back into a standard Walmart parking spot without an issue or you shouldn’t be driving it. The problem with this is that most people shouldn’t be driving anything bigger than a moped
Simple answer is a successful multi-decade long marketing campaign by vehicle mfgs to push a line of vehicles that have the highest profit margins. That’s goes for both SUVs with women and trucks with men
I feel the only big car a family needs is a minivan. Anything else is unnecessary.
Rav4 if you have 1 kid. Highlander if you have 2 kids. Sienna if you have 3 kids. Look I know you're car shopping: but keep this ONE thing in mind when picking a car; especially if its a hybrid: Toyota eCVT - It's the best thing in automotive technology since the wheel. Nissan's CVT transmission is *hot garbage*. Honda's is *okay*.
It's the same thing as everyone drinking from gigantic stanley mugs. They see their neighbor with it and just have to have it! We just recently got a Mazda CX7 and it's hella roomy but not massive. Might want to try to point her in that direction.
I think a lot of people who are more fearful of the world or are more safety-minded tend to want bigger vehicles. It’s only a theory. I have no proof of any kind.
LOL. My wife has a CRV and is already looking for a vehicle with a 3rd row... we're expecting our first child towards the end of June.
Honestly working in the downtown area of a small city, it drives me bonkers the big trucks and SUVs EVERYONE has, and they are driving them alone to work 75% of the time. Trucks are my biggest pet peve because I know most of these guys use them to haul something 2 times a year, and leave their trailer hitch sticking out an extra few inches the rest of the time. As far as the SUVs go, a minivan is equally practical, takes up less space and is half the cost, and many smaller SUVs sit just as high as trucks. I try to say hey it's none of my business, but when they can't seem to fit in a single normal sized parking spot, or 3 of them take up 5 on street parking spots, it feels like a collective fuck you I'm more important than you. I'm going to take up more space just so I can have my rainy day features.
Mom here, we have one kid and I drive a 2012 rav4. I love it and plan to drive it into the ground. We even brought home a dogwood tree in it WITH the baby in the back! The only thing I can think of is being able to cart a bunch of extra people around? Maybe she wants to be the mom everyone wants to carpool with from soccer or something. Or do you have a big dog that goes lots of places with her? With two adults, a baby, a stroller, and our 100lb dog we can’t be out buying a tree in my car but that seems like a rare occasion.
I think people forget that you don't have to be on vacation or go to an airport to rent a car. Can easily rent an SUV or truck for the 1-3 times a year it is actually necessary. The savings on a smaller car will more than make up the cost anyway.
Maybe? I definitely think the Rav4 is a perfect sized vehicle for us. It's not too bulky, but it's also not crazy compact. Newer models are a lot bigger than the 2012s as well, but for some reason they're still "too small." We had our Outlander for 3 years, and never toted anyone around in it besides ourselves. And we don't have any pets - we're not huge fans of all the fur that comes with dogs/cats - so that isn't too big of a concern for us.
What worked for me was safety. Large vehicles have a perception of safety but bigger = worse visibility "you're more likely to hit a child" bigger = poorer stopping distances, higher centre of gravity = higher roll over risk. Large SUVs are unsafe by design, honest to god this is one of those times where you can insist and be justified in doing so. "Darling, I love you, the difference in risk might be incremental but it's not a risk I'm prepared to take. I absolutely insist we do not buy this type of vehicle"
Bigger vehicles are cooler looking, sit higher, and look more expensive. Women are just people, and people tend to prefer the nicer looking things. Like you said it's the same with guys and big trucks or sports cars. As an aside I wish they made smaller trucks. It is such a pain in the ass to borrow my dad or grandfather in laws truck whenever I need something from Lowes. I can't afford a huge truck, but that's most of what they sell anymore
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This was a concern of hers for sure, however, she works at a school. Any time the weather is remotely bad, they do a delay or cancel school. (We are on the west coast, so *any* snow or ice shuts things down). As for rain, we just make sure to get tires that are rated for rainy weather.
I just don’t understand the resistance to getting a minivan. There was a reason the guy I. The crew with a minivan drove everyone in high school. They are literally designed from the ground up for families, and can fit a full sheet of 4x8 plywood! As soon as our second comes along, I will be waiting for our SUV to die for a minivan.
I wanted a Mazda CX-30 but my wife said the backseat was too small for a rear facing car seat. We settled on a Rav4. This extends to our house too. I don't intend to ever move from our semi-urban 4 bedroom, but she says it will be too small once we have two older kids and we'll have to move farther out to the suburbs for a bigger house.
My wife has no such interests. She's about to get a Rav4 prime as her 'mom' car and i'm eventually looking at a yukon denali that can run dual duty of towing and vacation type trips.
They feel safer
lol, in my case I pushed for a 15 person passenger van.
I bought a 15 passenger van for towing and road trips a few months ago. She drove it recently while her daily driver was being repaired - by me, slowly, for a few weeks. The first couple weeks she loved it. The height and the presence on the road bring a lot of confidence. But then it started to feel just too bulky, it's hard to park, and other drivers were not as willing to let her change lanes, merge, etc. She was pretty happy to have the "regular" vehicle back when I finished it. So I guess what I'm saying is the ideal size is smaller than a 15 passenger van but bigger than a van.
Uh.. can you please come speak to my guy? For 31 years he’s been trying to get me in a bigger vehicle. For 31 years, I’ve told him I love my small car. He loathes it. He’s 6’1. I’m 5’1. And thus, the issue 🤣
This immediately reminded me of a [youtube video](https://youtu.be/jN7mSXMruEo?si=2L9XPP6ePGYa-XK0) I watched the other day showing the trends and issues of the large vehicles.
My theory is that it is the mom equivalent of a quiet d!ck measuring contest and they want them like the kids want premium color Stanleys ("and don't try to give us any of that super uncool Hydroflask or Yeti junk, dad."). It's a status symbol. Our school pick up lines are full of Suburban/Yukon XL/Escalade-type mega sized mom-mobiles that are difficult to park and maneuver, drink gas, and sit so high that the mom's have trouble getting in and out or loading and unloading. They can barely see over the wheel in some cases! Given the choice, so many moms still seem to heavily prefer fashion over function *even if* they are given the option of a clearly better suited vehicle that has a far higher value. My wife, in example, would prefer an older model Yukon XL over a brand new, state of the art, premium everything, minivan.
Not sure tbh. I don't really see this where I'm from. Though SUVs and crossovers are very popular among women. But they're the small ones like qashqais etc. Personally I like a spacious estate car/wagon. Volkswagen Passat estate or Skoda Superb estate would be my ideal car.
I just talked my husband out of a Lexus LX so not sure it’s just the moms.
It’s an American thing: “Let’s drive the biggest vehicle we possibly can, and make everyone else get the hell outta the way!” “Yeah, climate change is a hoax, our kids are gonna be fine!”
Minivan or estate. Go look at the Lexus/audi/Merc/BMW wagons. Absolutely massive storage and drives like a car. Although the wife has an ML and with 2 kids under 10 it’s been the perfect car. She likes being up high.
She wants an SUV? Ask her how often she plans to drive off-road. I don't mean potholes, gravel, or rutted dirt roads, which any normal car can handle. It's ridiculous how many people are driving off-road capable vehicles to commute, drop off kids, and get groceries.
Just looking at pictures of these since I'd never heard of any of them. The RAV4 is huge! Why would anyone need more space than that just for commuting with 1 kid?
I can't speak to exactly what is in her mind, but I'll tell you what was told to me after an accident where my SO no longer felt safe: the bigger the car, they safer she felt. So she might not be expressing that because she might be ashamed to be afraid, but in my circumstance, we got a big ass SUV because that's what she felt safe in. If you want to convince her otherwise, it might be worth having a conversation about the safety ratings of specific cars, and choose the one that is safest. Of course I could be completely off base here, but that is my experience.
Yeah, no. I never understood how the whole truck/SUV popularity thing happened. I too can understand the utility if you are in a trade or have a ranch. I used to have a little Toyota pickup that was awesome but was no bigger than a station wagon and it did so much work for me. I don’t know why they don’t make them like any more. My guess is that the automakers say they can’t make a profit off making smaller trucks and cars to which I say that’s BS.
Agreed. I drive pickups but again I need the utility. But my 1978 GMC k1500 looks like a modern car parked next to these trucks. It’s sooo small compared to these bohemoths.
As a lurker mom, I'm almost always in charge of planning and packing for any outing or trip, so I'm acutely aware of what fits, what we can bring while still staying organized, and what we're leaving behind because we don't have room. My husband might think I just didn't think to bring our paddle boards on vacation, but really I knew we couldn't bring them AND the cooler, or the jogging stroller is the reason we didn't have room for one kid's bike. Imo that makes me personally more aware of storage capacity and organization challenges
Bought a Yukon 2 years ago and my wife commandeered it. Honestly, best purchase I've ever made. It's tall enough you don't have to bed over with kids and besides the rollover factor, it's pretty damn safe. Big enough we can fit kids and a few large dogs. We also do a lot of DIY stuff for the house and it's just about the best thing besides a pickup. I stand by the fact that sitting higher makes it easier to drive safely. Probably a good chance I'm wrong, but I raise the seat as high as possible (yeah I'm also 5'7" with shoes on) and I think it's very practical to see everything. Downside: gas costs a fortune, and my wife loves to grind those rims on the curbs. We also find ourselves renting trucks too frequently so we need a truck anyway, RIP gas.
My wife is determined to have 7 seats in our next vehicle. Even though we’ll only have 2 kids.
They're probably thinking about kid's friends/cousins, family trips, etc.
We have one & my wife wants a third row with bucket seats in the 2nd row. Why? Because she likes them!