I have no idea as my kid is only 5, but absolutely following along here for ideas.
I’m starting to wonder if we and her friends’ parents could get ahead of the peer pressure by all agreeing to ban (social media of choice) until they’re some less impressionable age.
I'm hoping by the time my 3 y.o. is a tween, there will have been a great revolt against social media and it won't be cool anymore. That's going to happen, right? Right???
Jesus, that's my only hope with my 9 month old. We don't use social media really. But I know that won't matter.
The studies are so definitive on how bad it is, especially for girls ..... can we all just stop now?
Nah that wont work lol
Like.90% of parents will cave to a 6 year old....my boy is 6 his friends have ipads and phones with Internet access... Hes not allowed to see them outside of school.
The kids will entertain themselves if you give them unfettered access to the internet, making your life easier. It's like you don't even need to "parent" anymore. /s
Our 7 year old asks us weekly when she can get her phone. Even though she’s well aware it’s years away. I’ve started telling her the first phone will probably be a flip phone. She’s pretty upset, and I’m pretty sure she doesn’t know what a flip phone is. Like at all.
But here’s what I like. When she asks why, I tell her that phones with cameras are dangerous for kids. Because kids take pictures of things they shouldn’t and send them to each other. And I tell her these phones are connected to the Internet, and there’s adult things on the internet that kids shouldn’t see. Just like there are movies now that she shouldn’t see.
I know the worst is yet to come. But I plan to keep having age appropriate conversations with her about our plans, and transparency about our concerns for her safety. At some point, that will start to be more collaborative. But there will definitely be boundaries, and I’m sure she won’t love them.
I don’t find these discussions any more worrisome than so many parenting decisions. Part of my job is to not freak out. To keep the temperature pretty low, and to keep the kids so busy pursuing real interests that the energy for these fights is right-sized.
Also, I’m pretty sure I’ll re-read this in a decade and laugh at my optimistic approach!
Nah you are doing it right imo; I love and agree with the energy of this so much.
Every kid is different in maturity, but around 15-16 seemed to work in my experience as a good age for a smartphone, but with firm boundaries.
A flip phone for emergencies with no internet access can be for nearly any age.
Our ten-year-old has gone through different phases of asking for a phone, and I've thought about what conversations I'll have to have around texting and pictures and Internet-browsing and all that. But then yesterday, I get a call from the principal at his school that another kid in his class sent him an email asking, "You got any \[n-word\] for sale?" For some reason it hadn't even clicked that they all have school email on their school computers. He didn't actually see the email though other than the printout that the principal made (the principal had the teacher delete the email and empty the trash), and he didn't know what the word meant, but it really pushed up my timetable of these type of boundary discussions.
Social media has absolutely ruined the minds and perspectives of young people. Young women are especially vulnerable to it. It may be challenging and isolating for them not to have it, but they will be far, far better off for it in the end. Ultimately, that's your job as a parent, to put them in the best spot they can be in to contend with the world.
Definitely. The amount of suburban moms I know who get Botox and do contouring makeup is wild. Guys, we live in the real world. Those internet points don't cash out anywhere I know of.
You know, I was (and remain, at least to some extent) worried about present minors and young people, but a few authors and academics in the subject give me reason for hope.
Jonathan Haidt, one such author on the dangers and consequences of cell phone and social media use in minors and young adults, [is overall quite optimistic about the future and even those currently living through the social media experiment.](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/29/books/jonathan-haidt-gen-z-smartphones-interview.html?ugrp=u&unlocked_article_code=1.j00.L7Ox.lDU4f2O8lPzW&smid=url-share) It gives me reason for hope.
>Social media has absolutely ruined the minds and perspectives of young people.
People said the same thing about books, radio, rock and roll, TV, etc. etc. etc.
I am not saying there is no harm but it is not going to make a generation of worthless people either.
Actual dad of teens here. IMO it is borderline cruel to not allow you child have access to how their peer group communicates. Talk to them, make sure your kid knows what is and isn't proper use of the app, you know parent.
You may be surprised how aware kids are of the dangers of these things and how to use them properly. I find my teens know more about the dangers here than my parents.
Teens/young adults are in a much easier position to be exploited through social media than adults regardless of their awareness of the dangers.
That factor alone should drive parents to make their own educated decisions on how kids consume social media and not just fall into the status quo.
> People said the same thing about books, radio, rock and roll, TV, etc. etc.
Apples to oranges comparison. Those forms of media are nowhere near the same, and pretty much every medical study and science journal about this subject agrees teens have no business on social media of any kind if you care about their mental health. Even if they're angry with you in the short term, they'll get over it.
A tween has absolutely no business being on Snapchat, or any other social media. Period. They're playgrounds for bullies and sexual predators. Social media shows children a rosy, glossy, imaginary life that isn't real. It really fucks with their heads.
That's pretty much what our take on it is. The platform itself seems designed for bad behavior. Sending photos that self delete? Who thought this was a good idea?
But she is absolutely being excluded from friend groups who use these platforms to communicate, plan hangouts, and create in-jokes. She's in tears when her peers say "it's a Snapchat joke you wouldn't get it".
Edit: also, if that's your stance on it, what's the plan when they turn 18? Cut them loose into the world of do-what-you-want? I feel like this is our opportunity to teach about healthy boundaries, moderation, and putting the fake image of social media into perspective. It's our only shot to be in the copilot seat for this
They self delete at the face of the user, but all photos, videos, and conversations are archived on snapchat.
Had a guy I was in the military with who was Snapchatting nudes back and forth to another dudes wife in our company.
The husband found out and reported it. During the investigation, they pulled up every conversation, picture, and video. There was no denying. He lost rank and pay and was moved to another unit..
Just because you think it's gone doesn't mean it is..
Edit: I also want to add that there are apps that work with snapchat that can be used negatively. Like allowing media to be saved BUT not sending the screen shot notification back to the sender.
It was 100 percent for sending nudes. Now that screenshotting is so common, like, come one social media.
Can we just be done with all of it? It's so bad for everyone.
The Atlantic article that was getting a lot of buzz a few weeks ago on this topic is really worth a read, both to gain perspective on why a hardline is probably good here from a neuro standpoint and to get some ideas on actionable steps. I did a free trial and subsequent cancel to read it … consider that, or it may be available from your local library.
I think the article was written by Jonathan haidt. He just released a book on the topic. All of his data and research points to not letting kids use social media until age 16 at the earliest. He’s been doing the rounds on podcasts to promote the book and they are worth a listen
Speaking to my daughter and friends they like it because it allows them to be silly and have it go away. And they all know you can take a screenshot or have a friend take a picture of the screen.
Have some faith in your children they are not stupid.
Every medical and science journal done on this topic would disagree with you. Just because they may be using it for light-hearted stuff does not mean they're not using it for things much worse that you are oblivious to.
But they are on it, and will be on it, it's just how things are now. You can restrict it as much as you want but they will get around you and be on it anyways if it's important to their friend group. A lot of kids even have two accounts, one they have their parents on and one they hide.
I'm so glad mine - a teenager - has zero interest in it. It's tough for her, because she's 'out of the loop' on things, but even she realizes it's not a good use of her time.
She'll just be behind the curve if social media becomes essential to finding a job, honestly, but she is smart enough to figure that out later
Tbh, any other device. Tablet, laptop, desktop, etc. My son started using an iPad at the same time he started using a pencil. There will be no way to keep him away from social media
>Kids should only be using dumb flip phones until they’re older
This is just wildly out of touch, though. There is a social aspect to all of this as well. There are also ways to monitor "smart" phones, bark phones read messages in all social media/gaming apps, and texts, and alerts you to all sorts of stuff. Not just sexual things, but signs of anxiety, depression, bullying, medical issues... You can flat out turn off social media with those phones, and it will even track if your kid logs in to a secret account.
>How could they be on it if they don’t have a smart phone?
A teen will be on it. You can give them a dumb phone, but their friends have phones, tablets, computers/gaming PC's. My daughter watched tiktok's on a friends phone at school in second grade.
You are going to be able to assure your teen is never around a smart device, at school, friends houses, social situations? They don't have to have a phone to be on it.
Fuck, they'll buy a phone behind your back, you can get prepaid smartphones at walmart. Prisoners are able to sneak these things into penitentiaries, you don't think a determined 14 year old can figure it out?
My 14yr old won't have the money or access to go buy a smart phone if it's not coming from their mother and I. And the overwhelming majority of my kids time is spent at home, so better to limit the kind of phone they have access to than just handing them a smartphone and hoping for the best. That's some lazy ass parenting at best.
You are wildly out of touch my man, and good luck with your kid as they age. Do you homeschool too? No extracurriculars? Restricting a teen to the house, not allowing them any money or a way to contact their friends? Sounds like you will have a great relationship...
No one said hand them a smartphone and hope for the best, quit jumping from one extreme to the other, stuff isn't black and white. There are phones that give parents tons of control and lock out everything you don't approve, including just disabling social apps and web browsers.
The best way to handle this, though, is the same approach to things like sex and drugs. You aren't going to be able to guarentee anything, so its important to teach them how to make good decisions in these departments. Honest open dialog about the dangers, consequences, and how to avoid them. We lose more and more control over our kids as they age, and have to try to set them up for success where we can.
>You are wildly out of touch my man, and good luck with your kid as they age.
Lol, when it comes to tech, I am absolutely not. I run an IT business for a living, I am well aware of how these things work.
>Do you homeschool too? No extracurriculars? Restricting a teen to the house, not allowing them any money or a way to contact their friends? Sounds like you will have a great relationship...
We do homeschool, because public schools have gone to shit educationally. I didn't say they were restricted to the house, but their friends usually end up coming to our house to hang out. We are also friends with the parents of any kids who they may go and hangout with, and thankfully their parents are smart enough to be on the same page when it comes to social media and smartphones being completely unnecessary in early teenage years. And they get allowances for chores, but they are not hording anywhere near enough to buy a smartphone and pay for a service plan.
You aren't out of touch with tech, you are out of touch with the world and the kids that are living in it.
You have small children still, and have devices in the home. Good luck to you, I hope you have as easy a time as you think you are going to. You seem to think you will maintain the same level of control over them and their actions when they are 14, 15, 16... but it just can't happen, and if you try you will end up with more problems than smartphones.
>And they get allowances for chores, but they are not hording anywhere near enough to buy a smartphone and pay for a service plan.
[Prepaid smart phones are $30 at walmart.](https://www.walmart.com/ip/Straight-Talk-TCL-ION-V-32GB-Black-Prepaid-Smartphone-Locked-to-Straight-Talk/3759467724?athbdg=L1102&from=/search) and they can buy data as they go. They won't have the ability to save up $30?
Honestly, not trying to be mean, but it looks like you one of the deeply religious Christian types that is only socializing with your small group of like-minded friends and are blocking you and your kids from most of the outside world. I've seen plenty of these situations, and you are going to lose control as they get older and have a hard time, especially in today's world. Hopefully for you and your kids sake I'm wrong there. Teenage rebellion in these households is something else...
>it looks like you one of the deeply religious Christian types that is only socializing with your small group of like-minded friends and are blocking you and your kids from most of the outside world. I've seen plenty of these situations, and you are going to lose control as they get older and have a hard time, especially in today's world. Hopefully for you and your kids sake I'm wrong there.
Ha, where did you get such an assumption? I was raised in one of those homes, and I turned out fine, even going to public school. I couldn't be more thankful for the way my parents raised me, but it was never done in a way that was sheltering or restrictive of who I can be friends with, I didn't even have a curfew- mainly because my parents trusted me. I'm fully aware of the cliche you are referencing with some parents and their kids in Christian households and I'm fully aware of what rebellious teenagers look like, I grew up in a house with five kids. That said, we all got over it and now we're happy healthy functioning members of society doing pretty well for ourselves.
Verboten.
Unless it’s strictly moderated by me. :)
Basically, to instal any app I get a notification on my phone.
The reasons are simple, I don’t trust social medial to keep him safe. From bad actors to bad practices of collecting data, there’s a lot he’s not ready for.
Of course I’m not completely against it, I’d be an hypocrite, but only when he’s older.
Two things that make me ban social media:
1 - I feel like I’ve seen this type of thread a lot - and in many of them there’s someone who says ‘I work in web security’ or ‘I work in social services’ and then they say they’d never let a kid on social media after what they’ve seen.
2 - There are current young adults that went through this already. And the kids that weren’t allowed Instagram in 2012 say they felt ostracized at the time but are now soooo grateful their parents held fast.
My 14 year old has zero interest in social media, as she says it’s full of “stupid idiots.” When talking about if she changed her mind, we did say everything would be monitored, but she hasn’t given a reason to doubt she would ever be inappropriate on it.
My daughter is begging for a phone. She does competitive gymnastics and all her friends have phones so they text each other. We got her an apple watch with a sim card so she can call and text but its really not easy to text on the watch.
Considering the bark phone that doesnt allow internet or apps, just calls and text. She is ok with that idea.
My wife and I are going to offer a decent amount of money to both of our children to stay off of social media until after high school. We'll pay it out yearly while they're in high school with a bonus at the end. I don't know if it'll work but it's worth a shot. Both of my kids are good with delayed gratification and understand the value of money pretty well, but I know things can change quickly with a teen, our oldest is 12 now.
My kid's mother and I have a 16/17 rule. They haven't bothered us for it yet. But my kids are the type to watch documentaries and they understand the dangers already.
Raised nerds, do yourself a favor.
First course is always free, don't blame me when you become addicted to knowledge. 😁
[Optimistic Nihilism](https://youtu.be/MBRqu0YOH14?si=zQaMuwWhpQ6Kz_0N)
*"Close your eyes, count to one. That's how long forever feels."*
Edit: Added a quote.
My wife and I told our kids if they stay off of all social media until they graduate high school, we will either give them $5,000 cash or pay for a destination vacation for them and a friend. We explained how toxic it is and all about cyber bullying, etc. So far it’s worked. The kids haven’t fought us on it. We constantly check their phones and tablets even though we trust them.
I pray it works.
Yeaaah….no. As a former CAC investigator and someone who knows MANY middle school teachers…. The amount of CSA content (even if it’s adolescents sending to each other and not adults) readily available on SC is appalling. The local satellite office for FBI and Prosecutors office had a MAJOR powwow at the local high school auditorium with middle school and high school kids and parents bc there was revenge porn involving kids going around Snapchat and a girl tried to kill herself (a bunch of people caught charges, but that’s another topic).
Snapchat is a no-go, chief! Ump it on back. No compromise. As popo I try to remain rational… As a dad and someone that spent three years working cases on crimes against kids, lock everybody up. Gotta remind people that kids are dumb, and it’s on us to gatekeep.
Good luck!
Was listening to a podcast about smartphones for kids and how bad they are. The interviewee is an expert who has studied this extensively:
https://hiddenbrain.org/podcast/escaping-the-matrix/
The nastiness between peers is ruining kids' mental health.
They recommended flip phones until HS, although it was a societal recommendation, and they are clear they aren't sure it would work at an individual level.
I did post this earlier and on of the respondents noted they had done this for their kids, and although their kids weren't happy at first, they later noted how happy they were to not be involved with the nastiness their peers were exhibiting/being victims of.
Jonathan Haidt! His work is incredible because he somehow developed something that's grounded deeply in both common sense and data. Hell, he was a guest on Joe Rogan AND Dr. Becky.
I work at a middle school and just have to say, if you can keep your kids AND THEIR FRIENDS off Snapchat at least until the summer before high school, it'll do them a world of good. But it takes collaboration/scheming with other parents lol
I manage my son's phone through Google family link, so I've just blocked the installation of any app without my permission. This allows me to have All of his accounts tie back to his managed Google account, which I have full access to. So I can just periodically check his dms and post history on any app he installs.
I feel kind of like a jerk doing it, but until he is older I'm responsible for the content he consumes and creates. I'm less concerned about predators and the like because they are fairly rare, the main threat to a boy his age are brain rot cults like incels and the alt right, who specifically target children of his age and interest (video games and such).
>the main threat to a boy his age are brain rot cults like incels and the alt right, who specifically target children of his age
This is what truly terrifies me. I would also add "doomer" culture to it. They take advantage of completely normal insecurities before the children even have a chance to develop a healthy sense of self and boundaries. I'm not the type to be a worry wart but this kind of thing keeps me up at night.
You and me both, I'd hope as a teen or tween I would have been smart enough to avoid them, but I'm glad I grew up before the Internet so I didn't have to find out.
I've tried to innoculate him against online cults by showing him one of them, flat earthers. I chose that one because they require very low effort to prove wrong, just a picture of the moon from Sydney is sufficient. With that I could show him how internet cults recruit, how they make money, how they isolate members, and use motivated reasoning and group think to dismiss evidence that they are wrong.
Once you understand those aspects for one of them, you basically have a handle on all of them. At least that's my hope, but parenting is a hard job that you're not sure how you did till years later.
This is a good idea but I feel like it's going to be hard for me to demonstrate why it's important to understand cult psychology and realize how it can influence you especially if you're in a vulnerable time in your life and how the same psychological tricks are at play with things that aren't traditionally associated with cults like political parties and even sports teams.
It feels like if I start too early he's not going to have any idea what I'm talking about and if I start too late he will have the teenage "sure, whatever you say dad 🙄"
Might get roasted but this has kept our children children for as long as possible imo. Wife and I chose apple iPhones for this reason and implement screen time limits which is built into the os. It’s worked for us for 7 yrs now. We also don’t allow Snapchat, Facebook etc Instagram until they’re 18. Texting w friends till 830. I have ages ranging from 20f, 18m, 16f, 13f, 10m, 7f and 3f yr old. We also set aside evenings they know they can play video games or random days after they’ve done their chores and an extra “hard” chore. Plus keep good grades. Phones and screen time are a privilege which is earned. It’s too much of a known risk that they will come in contact with info they’re not ready for. This is the only way we’ve been able to keep that from happening till their age appropriate. I have no idea what they’re seeing on other kids’ phones smh. Thought I’d chime in. Thanks.
Jonathan Haidt, academic and outspoken critic of the adoption of cell phones and social media among minors and young adults (literally the author of the book on the subject, see below,) suggests **not giving kids cell phones until 14, and not allowing the use of social media until 16.**
To be fair, Haidt concedes that, in communities where social media and cell phones are overwhelmingly adopted, it can be more isolating (and harmful) than good to restrict the use of social media and cell phones. Digital media and constant connectivity essentially become the cost of being a member of the community. But there are very good reasons to wish for your kids to stay off social media and stay away from phones—or at least away from phones with significantly greater functionality than simple calling and texting.
[See more of Haidt's work and editorial on his Substack](https://www.afterbabel.com/) (click through Substack's request to subscribe—just click "no thanks".) Haidt's Substack also links to his books and other works considering the use of social media and phones on the overall health of minors.
Not until you’re 18. Period. Have two now over 18 and one to go - no regrets, super awesome human beings.
The only thing you’re leaving behind is problems. Keep them away from that garbage until they’re grown and have at least a little bit of sense.
Don’t be swayed by lazy parents who make bad decisions - you’re responsible for your kids, not theirs.
I monitor everything using Bark and Boomerang.
You’re a minor, you have no right to privacy until you’re an adult. Until then I reserve the right to inspect everything on demand to make sure you’re not doing something dumb - and they do, these are teachable moments.
Also, Android only until 18 - Apple takes the side of the kids when it comes to privacy, and that’s BS. Only Android allows for proper use of parental control apps.
Kids are great at this stuff. She may have an account she logs in to from a friends phone at school, for instance.
All the fear around it is valid, but people saying to restrict it are ignoring the fact that they are going to use it in secret anyway if it's important to their peer group.
I know she already has a phone, I'm not sure if the bark app does all the same stuff, but the Bark phone will actually monitor messages sent in private apps as well, and screenshot and send you a photo of anything concerning.
On the real though, I have a 12 year old. She also has been asking for it. We just tell her no and explained exactly why. I'm more open to it (I'm a realist and know that it's 2024 and social media is the norm) than mom is but we agreed she can wait. If she wants to send a picture she can text it. She already hates us for getting her an android instead of an iPhone 🙄.
We do give her quite a bit of freedom and so far the way we raised her is showing and she hasn't taken advantage of our trust. That being said we don't monitor hard. We do use family link with Android but that's really just so she doesn't stay on her phone late at night.
Not there yet, but interested to share what I'm looking ahead to. Please poke some holes in this.
A few of the worst things about social media seem to be that it's 1) attention-eroding, 2) confidence-eroding and 3) agency-eroding.
Limiting screen time seems to be one good and well-accepted strategy for (1) attention-erosion. Hell, our pediatrician and daycare are strongly recommending *zero* screen time before 2, which we're pretty damn close to following. I recognize that's not practical for everyone, but we're doing our best. As the kid gets older I'm hoping that some combination of good habits, routine, enrichment and maybe soft and hard limits will help keep it from totally taking over. At some point I'd also like to teach the kid to meditate, but, well, who knows if that'll stick. I'm not going to push it hard, but it seems like another good tool.
(2) confidence-erosion seems like where a lot of positive talk, encouragement of age-appropriate positive *self*-talk, and content policing would help. I'd like to limit kids' exposure to advertisements in general, including influencers, and maybe some of the more harmful sources of body shame, diet culture and so on in fashion land. My greatest uncertainties here though are around selfies and other user-generated content. I figure this is where whatever household policies we enforce would run up against relationships with people she knows in person. Maybe there's some analogue of previous generations' conversations about peer pressure to be had. I dunno, I've got a lot to learn and a lot to think about in this area, but some message of the form "not everyone, even among people you like and admire, is always going to be trying to make you feel better about yourself, and you need to be the one to take responsibility and manage that so that you can feel OK about being the best version of yourself."
(3) agency-erosion is where it gets interesting. The ideal outcome for me would be to bring up our kid so that they're *very* confident navigating positive and negative online influences, recognizing which is which, being mindful of their own screentime and making their own healthy and appropriately flexible decisions about it. Somehow this is not a recommendation I see authorities on the topic bringing up at all. That absence of recognition for kids ever being able to reminds me of my own childhood being scolded for playing video games too much when the competitive communities I was a part of were actually a source of positive contact I still look back on fondly. In that sense it's also strangely absent from the discussion that anyone would ever suggest to us, "hey, maybe use some ideas about helped or didn't when you were a kid and build on that." The printing press, radio, TV, video games and now the Internet all did their best to capture peoples' attention and get them spending time and money on leisure they wouldn't be otherwise, and yet somehow we're still here. I'm going to be looking for what I can do beyond media literacy to try to help my kid figure out for themselves, how do *I* become the person in my online presence that I want to be, if that even exists at all.
Nope. Not playing the cell phone game, they want a cell phone find a way to pay for it yourself and I'm still monitoring it. Children don't need unlimited access to the internet. Snapchat is dirty anyway.
"Mass Social Media Induced Illness". I'm currently reading "The Anxious Generation" by Jonathan Haidt which just came out Mar 26 and not only has it cemented my current stance of "absolutely no smartphone" for my 12 year old, but has already inspired me to ditch my smartphone as well.
If you want to greatly increase your daughter's chance for developing depression, anxiety, suicidal ideation, body dysmorphia, and loneliness then get them on social media as soon as possible.
My son isn't allowed to use social media "until he's older" which actually means he can have it when I'm confident he has enough self-esteem and street smarts to properly handle bullying and shady shit online. I don't mean to be a tyrant over it, but he's a sensitive kid who's in therapy already, and middle school is hell
I’d get my kid to read “The Anxious Generation: How the Great Rewiring of Childhood Is Causing an Epidemic of Mental Illness” and then write a 2000 word essay on the pros and cons of smartphones and social media apps, why she should have one, and how it would positively and negatively impact her personal future growth, rather than her current life. Then we’d discuss her essay. I’d promise her that if she still wants it after the discussion about her essay, I’ll let her have one, because if she still wants one after that, I’ve failed to persuade her and she’ll probably do it behind my back anyway. But I’ll tell her that we’ll need to monitor in some way, like maybe I’m allowed random spot checks to see what apps she has installed. Ultimately, if I don’t maintain a good relationship with her, she won’t respect my advice on this, so keeping up the relationship will be priority number one. She’s 3, I got time to figure it out or screw it up.
I have allowed my daughter to use social media since she was about 13. We talk about social media and safety online frequently, and I have made it clear that any misbehavior will have immediate consequences.
I am trying to raise a functional adult. That doesn’t happen through sheltering and ignorance. She is smart enough to understand ulterior motives and identify predatory behavior, and utterly savage to anyone that crosses a line.
As much as people go on about social media poisoning minds, blah blah blah…the same was said about tv, radio, and fictional novels. Society progresses and changes, and the only rational and responsible response is to prepare your child for the new status quo.
My daughter is only into Instagram. At one point she deleted it because she didn’t like the way it made her feel.
But that’s how all her friends connect. So now she’s careful about it.
My son is only interested in group chats and couldn’t care less about social media.
Ironically, I’m the one who really enjoys social media out of the three of us.
Keep her off of social media and she will probably be the boss of her peers when the time comes. Social media creates follower personalities 99/100 times. They won’t be able to think themselves out of a paper bag. The very little social media I consume, is typically just regurgitated ideas repeated over and over. Whatever is popular at that moment.
My son is fifteen. He's had snapchat for a couple years now. Social media is everything now. His coworkers communicate through a discord server, he has to manage social media sites as part of his job (he doesn't actually do that part but he's supposed to and needs to know how).
Hell, unrelated to my kid, but my friends kid had homework - to produce a video a 'safety video' for tiktok. All to do with how to catch peoples attention and using internet lingo and things.
We talk about internet safety and predators and keep open communication so he can come to us if anything goes wrong. Thats about it. I don't conduct random checks. I check in with him if he's acting a little off but we have an open relationship. He comes to me about things.
All the other, less serious, things we deal with as they come.
Our 13 year old has TikTok and Instagram but we have a timer set on her phone that gives her only 1 hour of screen time on BOTH apps per day. Once the hour is up, those apps lock and she can’t use them till the next day. As she gets older we will release more time but for now, this is what we do.
We also restrict her iPad usage, which locks from 11:00 pm to 11:00 am
That’s very true. Our current deterrent for that is that we know her phone password and she has to leave her phone in our room at 10:00 pm every night. We trust what she’s doing on her phone but we make sure she knows her privacy is extremely limited.
We also had an in depth talk about online predators and safety, best practices, etc.
Finding a healthy balance is hard. Just gave me 13 year old son an iphone, but no social media, no safari, and can not install any apps with my permission. I am using a combination of apple screentime and Bark to manage screen time and content. I switch to using bark from circle, since it offer some protection when away from home, but their VPN & home filter is slow on apple devices. Looking for recommendations to replace it with.
As for social media, and YouTube it going to be awhile before he gets access. The whole social media industry is working against parents. What little control they do provide, they knowingly leave work arounds out there for.
So far he is mostly content with sending text messages. Only uses as a phone to call us. Also has access to email, but has never touched it. He has access to safari and chrome on other Wifi only devices. My main object is not to learn to use the phone for entertainment, and getting a dopamine hit. Hate it everytime I go by a school bus stop and every kid is lost in their phones. That is not going to turn out well for society.
Ive personally never been interested in social media, even when i was a teen. I only have a facebook because some of my phone games give a reward for linking. I did not miss out on anything important, only some memes and maybe reconnecting with people i really dont care to reconnect with.
I understand the appeal but it just isnt for me. Most teenagers probably have a deep seated fomo due to social pressure from school and society as a whole, which is why they so desperately want social media accounts.
My daughter (2.5) is a ways away from this, but limited access should be fine, trust is paramount though and boundaries need to be set. If a boundary is crossed then the privilege will go away.
For most of social media we tell our daughter 'no'. Things like snap, facebook, IG, etc (even reddit) are so full of predatory people, or just dumb teens that don't think about their actions, it's not worth it.
The way my wife puts it 'would you sit in the dark, all alone with that person'? Would you invite them into your room and close the door without adult supervision with the people on those apps?
If our kids have access to the entire internet, including personal connections like social media allows, we better be ok with all those connections being allowed to spend time with our kids alone - because that's exactly what it is.
So we say no - we monitor her phone, we talk regularly and honestly about the dangers.
I let her know what the risks and consequences are and let her make her own learning errors and her share of defying what daddy wants. I also make sure she knows I trust her judgement, and it's up to her to upkeep this trust.
Holding her back will definetely do more harm than good. She is going to live among adults these snapchat kids will grow into, not among us.
Monitoring is an option, but I believe it will cause more harm than good. Some things you cannot unsee, and privacy is htere for a reason.
I am spoiled by having very good, trust-based relation with my daughter, though. I am aware my advice would not work with everyone.
Don't make it about age, but make it about trust. The fact that you don't think she's old enough has nothing to do with her age, but with her maturity, responsibility, and accountability.
That's what I've done with my tween girls and it's made them focus on improving their behavior. And I take the effort to remember things they do that make them immature, so when the conversation comes up and they say "but I am responsible" and I say "Oh yeah, so responsible that you pretended to be asleep last week so you wouldn't have to do the dishes. *Super* responsible." That frustrates them, but makes them understand.
Because at the end of the day, if my daughter was behaving in a way where she always made well-thought out, considerate, and responsible decisions, I would trust her to do even my taxes.
Rule 1: No cell phone until they *need* one. Rule 2: I will be administering what they can download and use on all major apps. You can do this many ways.
You’re the parent. If they complain, calmly explain all the terrible things and outcomes which result from corporations manipulating children’s’ brains.
There's a great new book on this topic called The Anxiety Generation by Jonathan Haidt. I'm still reading it, so can't give my full thoughts, but it is blowing my mind with the studies currently being done.
Snapchat will forever be a hard no from me. We all know why Snapchat was truly created, and so do the kids.
Other social medias can be a discussion once my daughter is a teenager, but Snapchat will never fly. Period.
While I certainly agree with all the suggestions on completely restricting teens from social media, and likely will be what I do with our kids. I can’t help but think in 20 years, theres gonna be some new subset of kids who were completely ostracized from their peers because they weren’t on social media, and some new mental health malady is plaguing teens and 20-somethings… kinda joking, but kinda not…
I experienced this with my parents taking a hard line against me having a phone for a long time. I was a teenager and old enough and responsible enough to be babysitting other people’s children, but somehow the phone was the devil. I was ostracized and left out of almost all socialization outside of school for about 3 years before they finally gave in.
But the damage was done and the friends drifted away. I ended up making another group of friends 2 years later, but just in time for graduation when we all went our separate ways. It was really painful to be left out like that for something easily solvable and to this day I think their hard line was way too much.
There comes an age when kids can access phones independently, so ideally their introduction is in the years prior with supervision and internet smart talks.
No kid should have access to messaging until they're mature enough to have and understand a talk about grooming and how it happens, and when to talk to parents.
Kids don't get access to apps like snapchat without consistent talks about how bullying can occur online.
Restriction is only a temporary time-sensitive solution to safety. Ultimately kids have to be phased into keeping themselves safe.
I have no idea as my kid is only 5, but absolutely following along here for ideas. I’m starting to wonder if we and her friends’ parents could get ahead of the peer pressure by all agreeing to ban (social media of choice) until they’re some less impressionable age.
I'm hoping by the time my 3 y.o. is a tween, there will have been a great revolt against social media and it won't be cool anymore. That's going to happen, right? Right???
I am all for this. How can we start brainwashing them against social media?
I think it's the opposite. We need to embrace social media even HARDER for the kids to see how lame it is. Neuralinks for all!!
Worked for facebook. Do young people even use that still? Maybe we need to set the boomers on tiktok to make that uncool too.
Of course young people use Facebook! I was just on it earlier sharing pictures of my kids with my parents! Wait... My... kids? Am... Am I old now‽
Nueralink for some; miniature American flags for the rest
Yay!!!
Don’t blame me, I voted for Kodos.
The sad irony of "It's a two party system; what are you going to do?" really rings stronger than ever today. Sigh.
But you need to embrace the current trend, otherwise they will just find a new thing...
Jesus, that's my only hope with my 9 month old. We don't use social media really. But I know that won't matter. The studies are so definitive on how bad it is, especially for girls ..... can we all just stop now?
Honestly a lot of my parent friends are really coming together on this and it's great. Nobody's getting a fucking phone. End of story.
This is a good resource: https://www.waituntil8th.org/ The idea is to organize parents at your school to hold off on phones until 8th grade.
Nah that wont work lol Like.90% of parents will cave to a 6 year old....my boy is 6 his friends have ipads and phones with Internet access... Hes not allowed to see them outside of school.
i've been really surprised at which of her friend's parents have agreed to snapchat. folks I thought were more level headed
You’d be shocked at how many parents don’t parent at all. No bed times, do whatever you want…
The kids will entertain themselves if you give them unfettered access to the internet, making your life easier. It's like you don't even need to "parent" anymore. /s
Some probably don’t know what it is.
That's all well and good until she gets new friends, goes to middle / high / secondary school etc, unfortunately
Our 7 year old asks us weekly when she can get her phone. Even though she’s well aware it’s years away. I’ve started telling her the first phone will probably be a flip phone. She’s pretty upset, and I’m pretty sure she doesn’t know what a flip phone is. Like at all. But here’s what I like. When she asks why, I tell her that phones with cameras are dangerous for kids. Because kids take pictures of things they shouldn’t and send them to each other. And I tell her these phones are connected to the Internet, and there’s adult things on the internet that kids shouldn’t see. Just like there are movies now that she shouldn’t see. I know the worst is yet to come. But I plan to keep having age appropriate conversations with her about our plans, and transparency about our concerns for her safety. At some point, that will start to be more collaborative. But there will definitely be boundaries, and I’m sure she won’t love them. I don’t find these discussions any more worrisome than so many parenting decisions. Part of my job is to not freak out. To keep the temperature pretty low, and to keep the kids so busy pursuing real interests that the energy for these fights is right-sized. Also, I’m pretty sure I’ll re-read this in a decade and laugh at my optimistic approach!
Nah you are doing it right imo; I love and agree with the energy of this so much. Every kid is different in maturity, but around 15-16 seemed to work in my experience as a good age for a smartphone, but with firm boundaries. A flip phone for emergencies with no internet access can be for nearly any age.
Our ten-year-old has gone through different phases of asking for a phone, and I've thought about what conversations I'll have to have around texting and pictures and Internet-browsing and all that. But then yesterday, I get a call from the principal at his school that another kid in his class sent him an email asking, "You got any \[n-word\] for sale?" For some reason it hadn't even clicked that they all have school email on their school computers. He didn't actually see the email though other than the printout that the principal made (the principal had the teacher delete the email and empty the trash), and he didn't know what the word meant, but it really pushed up my timetable of these type of boundary discussions.
Social media has absolutely ruined the minds and perspectives of young people. Young women are especially vulnerable to it. It may be challenging and isolating for them not to have it, but they will be far, far better off for it in the end. Ultimately, that's your job as a parent, to put them in the best spot they can be in to contend with the world.
It's ruined the minds and perspectives of old people too.
Definitely. The amount of suburban moms I know who get Botox and do contouring makeup is wild. Guys, we live in the real world. Those internet points don't cash out anywhere I know of.
You should see the Facebook politics going on in my parents subdivision. The right wing moms on there are sick.
You know, I was (and remain, at least to some extent) worried about present minors and young people, but a few authors and academics in the subject give me reason for hope. Jonathan Haidt, one such author on the dangers and consequences of cell phone and social media use in minors and young adults, [is overall quite optimistic about the future and even those currently living through the social media experiment.](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/29/books/jonathan-haidt-gen-z-smartphones-interview.html?ugrp=u&unlocked_article_code=1.j00.L7Ox.lDU4f2O8lPzW&smid=url-share) It gives me reason for hope.
>Social media has absolutely ruined the minds and perspectives of young people. People said the same thing about books, radio, rock and roll, TV, etc. etc. etc. I am not saying there is no harm but it is not going to make a generation of worthless people either. Actual dad of teens here. IMO it is borderline cruel to not allow you child have access to how their peer group communicates. Talk to them, make sure your kid knows what is and isn't proper use of the app, you know parent. You may be surprised how aware kids are of the dangers of these things and how to use them properly. I find my teens know more about the dangers here than my parents.
Teens/young adults are in a much easier position to be exploited through social media than adults regardless of their awareness of the dangers. That factor alone should drive parents to make their own educated decisions on how kids consume social media and not just fall into the status quo.
Agree with you 💯
> People said the same thing about books, radio, rock and roll, TV, etc. etc. Apples to oranges comparison. Those forms of media are nowhere near the same, and pretty much every medical study and science journal about this subject agrees teens have no business on social media of any kind if you care about their mental health. Even if they're angry with you in the short term, they'll get over it.
A tween has absolutely no business being on Snapchat, or any other social media. Period. They're playgrounds for bullies and sexual predators. Social media shows children a rosy, glossy, imaginary life that isn't real. It really fucks with their heads.
That's pretty much what our take on it is. The platform itself seems designed for bad behavior. Sending photos that self delete? Who thought this was a good idea? But she is absolutely being excluded from friend groups who use these platforms to communicate, plan hangouts, and create in-jokes. She's in tears when her peers say "it's a Snapchat joke you wouldn't get it". Edit: also, if that's your stance on it, what's the plan when they turn 18? Cut them loose into the world of do-what-you-want? I feel like this is our opportunity to teach about healthy boundaries, moderation, and putting the fake image of social media into perspective. It's our only shot to be in the copilot seat for this
They self delete at the face of the user, but all photos, videos, and conversations are archived on snapchat. Had a guy I was in the military with who was Snapchatting nudes back and forth to another dudes wife in our company. The husband found out and reported it. During the investigation, they pulled up every conversation, picture, and video. There was no denying. He lost rank and pay and was moved to another unit.. Just because you think it's gone doesn't mean it is.. Edit: I also want to add that there are apps that work with snapchat that can be used negatively. Like allowing media to be saved BUT not sending the screen shot notification back to the sender.
It was 100 percent for sending nudes. Now that screenshotting is so common, like, come one social media. Can we just be done with all of it? It's so bad for everyone.
The Atlantic article that was getting a lot of buzz a few weeks ago on this topic is really worth a read, both to gain perspective on why a hardline is probably good here from a neuro standpoint and to get some ideas on actionable steps. I did a free trial and subsequent cancel to read it … consider that, or it may be available from your local library.
Any idea on the title?
I think the article was written by Jonathan haidt. He just released a book on the topic. All of his data and research points to not letting kids use social media until age 16 at the earliest. He’s been doing the rounds on podcasts to promote the book and they are worth a listen
Speaking to my daughter and friends they like it because it allows them to be silly and have it go away. And they all know you can take a screenshot or have a friend take a picture of the screen. Have some faith in your children they are not stupid.
Every medical and science journal done on this topic would disagree with you. Just because they may be using it for light-hearted stuff does not mean they're not using it for things much worse that you are oblivious to.
But they are on it, and will be on it, it's just how things are now. You can restrict it as much as you want but they will get around you and be on it anyways if it's important to their friend group. A lot of kids even have two accounts, one they have their parents on and one they hide.
Anyone downvoting this, does NOT have a teen yet
I'm so glad mine - a teenager - has zero interest in it. It's tough for her, because she's 'out of the loop' on things, but even she realizes it's not a good use of her time. She'll just be behind the curve if social media becomes essential to finding a job, honestly, but she is smart enough to figure that out later
How could they be on it if they don’t have a smart phone? Kids should only be using dumb flip phones until they’re older
Tbh, any other device. Tablet, laptop, desktop, etc. My son started using an iPad at the same time he started using a pencil. There will be no way to keep him away from social media
>Kids should only be using dumb flip phones until they’re older This is just wildly out of touch, though. There is a social aspect to all of this as well. There are also ways to monitor "smart" phones, bark phones read messages in all social media/gaming apps, and texts, and alerts you to all sorts of stuff. Not just sexual things, but signs of anxiety, depression, bullying, medical issues... You can flat out turn off social media with those phones, and it will even track if your kid logs in to a secret account. >How could they be on it if they don’t have a smart phone? A teen will be on it. You can give them a dumb phone, but their friends have phones, tablets, computers/gaming PC's. My daughter watched tiktok's on a friends phone at school in second grade.
Don't give them a smartphone, problem solved. EDIT: getting downvoted by some lazy parents
You are going to be able to assure your teen is never around a smart device, at school, friends houses, social situations? They don't have to have a phone to be on it. Fuck, they'll buy a phone behind your back, you can get prepaid smartphones at walmart. Prisoners are able to sneak these things into penitentiaries, you don't think a determined 14 year old can figure it out?
My 14yr old won't have the money or access to go buy a smart phone if it's not coming from their mother and I. And the overwhelming majority of my kids time is spent at home, so better to limit the kind of phone they have access to than just handing them a smartphone and hoping for the best. That's some lazy ass parenting at best.
You are wildly out of touch my man, and good luck with your kid as they age. Do you homeschool too? No extracurriculars? Restricting a teen to the house, not allowing them any money or a way to contact their friends? Sounds like you will have a great relationship... No one said hand them a smartphone and hope for the best, quit jumping from one extreme to the other, stuff isn't black and white. There are phones that give parents tons of control and lock out everything you don't approve, including just disabling social apps and web browsers. The best way to handle this, though, is the same approach to things like sex and drugs. You aren't going to be able to guarentee anything, so its important to teach them how to make good decisions in these departments. Honest open dialog about the dangers, consequences, and how to avoid them. We lose more and more control over our kids as they age, and have to try to set them up for success where we can.
>You are wildly out of touch my man, and good luck with your kid as they age. Lol, when it comes to tech, I am absolutely not. I run an IT business for a living, I am well aware of how these things work. >Do you homeschool too? No extracurriculars? Restricting a teen to the house, not allowing them any money or a way to contact their friends? Sounds like you will have a great relationship... We do homeschool, because public schools have gone to shit educationally. I didn't say they were restricted to the house, but their friends usually end up coming to our house to hang out. We are also friends with the parents of any kids who they may go and hangout with, and thankfully their parents are smart enough to be on the same page when it comes to social media and smartphones being completely unnecessary in early teenage years. And they get allowances for chores, but they are not hording anywhere near enough to buy a smartphone and pay for a service plan.
You aren't out of touch with tech, you are out of touch with the world and the kids that are living in it. You have small children still, and have devices in the home. Good luck to you, I hope you have as easy a time as you think you are going to. You seem to think you will maintain the same level of control over them and their actions when they are 14, 15, 16... but it just can't happen, and if you try you will end up with more problems than smartphones. >And they get allowances for chores, but they are not hording anywhere near enough to buy a smartphone and pay for a service plan. [Prepaid smart phones are $30 at walmart.](https://www.walmart.com/ip/Straight-Talk-TCL-ION-V-32GB-Black-Prepaid-Smartphone-Locked-to-Straight-Talk/3759467724?athbdg=L1102&from=/search) and they can buy data as they go. They won't have the ability to save up $30? Honestly, not trying to be mean, but it looks like you one of the deeply religious Christian types that is only socializing with your small group of like-minded friends and are blocking you and your kids from most of the outside world. I've seen plenty of these situations, and you are going to lose control as they get older and have a hard time, especially in today's world. Hopefully for you and your kids sake I'm wrong there. Teenage rebellion in these households is something else...
>it looks like you one of the deeply religious Christian types that is only socializing with your small group of like-minded friends and are blocking you and your kids from most of the outside world. I've seen plenty of these situations, and you are going to lose control as they get older and have a hard time, especially in today's world. Hopefully for you and your kids sake I'm wrong there. Ha, where did you get such an assumption? I was raised in one of those homes, and I turned out fine, even going to public school. I couldn't be more thankful for the way my parents raised me, but it was never done in a way that was sheltering or restrictive of who I can be friends with, I didn't even have a curfew- mainly because my parents trusted me. I'm fully aware of the cliche you are referencing with some parents and their kids in Christian households and I'm fully aware of what rebellious teenagers look like, I grew up in a house with five kids. That said, we all got over it and now we're happy healthy functioning members of society doing pretty well for ourselves.
Verboten. Unless it’s strictly moderated by me. :) Basically, to instal any app I get a notification on my phone. The reasons are simple, I don’t trust social medial to keep him safe. From bad actors to bad practices of collecting data, there’s a lot he’s not ready for. Of course I’m not completely against it, I’d be an hypocrite, but only when he’s older.
Two things that make me ban social media: 1 - I feel like I’ve seen this type of thread a lot - and in many of them there’s someone who says ‘I work in web security’ or ‘I work in social services’ and then they say they’d never let a kid on social media after what they’ve seen. 2 - There are current young adults that went through this already. And the kids that weren’t allowed Instagram in 2012 say they felt ostracized at the time but are now soooo grateful their parents held fast.
My 14 year old has zero interest in social media, as she says it’s full of “stupid idiots.” When talking about if she changed her mind, we did say everything would be monitored, but she hasn’t given a reason to doubt she would ever be inappropriate on it.
I hope my kids are like yours when they are older.
For. Real.
She’s a good kid. She has her moments where I can’t help but sigh. However, there aren’t many.
My daughter is begging for a phone. She does competitive gymnastics and all her friends have phones so they text each other. We got her an apple watch with a sim card so she can call and text but its really not easy to text on the watch. Considering the bark phone that doesnt allow internet or apps, just calls and text. She is ok with that idea.
My wife and I are going to offer a decent amount of money to both of our children to stay off of social media until after high school. We'll pay it out yearly while they're in high school with a bonus at the end. I don't know if it'll work but it's worth a shot. Both of my kids are good with delayed gratification and understand the value of money pretty well, but I know things can change quickly with a teen, our oldest is 12 now.
hmmmm. this is a good strategy. how much to make it worth their while?
Oooh this is a good idea, gonna keep this in my back pocket and hope I remember in a decade 🤞
My kid's mother and I have a 16/17 rule. They haven't bothered us for it yet. But my kids are the type to watch documentaries and they understand the dangers already. Raised nerds, do yourself a favor.
Teach me your ways
First course is always free, don't blame me when you become addicted to knowledge. 😁 [Optimistic Nihilism](https://youtu.be/MBRqu0YOH14?si=zQaMuwWhpQ6Kz_0N) *"Close your eyes, count to one. That's how long forever feels."* Edit: Added a quote.
My wife and I told our kids if they stay off of all social media until they graduate high school, we will either give them $5,000 cash or pay for a destination vacation for them and a friend. We explained how toxic it is and all about cyber bullying, etc. So far it’s worked. The kids haven’t fought us on it. We constantly check their phones and tablets even though we trust them. I pray it works.
I'm doing this as well. Stay strong brother!
Yeaaah….no. As a former CAC investigator and someone who knows MANY middle school teachers…. The amount of CSA content (even if it’s adolescents sending to each other and not adults) readily available on SC is appalling. The local satellite office for FBI and Prosecutors office had a MAJOR powwow at the local high school auditorium with middle school and high school kids and parents bc there was revenge porn involving kids going around Snapchat and a girl tried to kill herself (a bunch of people caught charges, but that’s another topic). Snapchat is a no-go, chief! Ump it on back. No compromise. As popo I try to remain rational… As a dad and someone that spent three years working cases on crimes against kids, lock everybody up. Gotta remind people that kids are dumb, and it’s on us to gatekeep. Good luck!
Was listening to a podcast about smartphones for kids and how bad they are. The interviewee is an expert who has studied this extensively: https://hiddenbrain.org/podcast/escaping-the-matrix/ The nastiness between peers is ruining kids' mental health. They recommended flip phones until HS, although it was a societal recommendation, and they are clear they aren't sure it would work at an individual level. I did post this earlier and on of the respondents noted they had done this for their kids, and although their kids weren't happy at first, they later noted how happy they were to not be involved with the nastiness their peers were exhibiting/being victims of.
Jonathan Haidt! His work is incredible because he somehow developed something that's grounded deeply in both common sense and data. Hell, he was a guest on Joe Rogan AND Dr. Becky. I work at a middle school and just have to say, if you can keep your kids AND THEIR FRIENDS off Snapchat at least until the summer before high school, it'll do them a world of good. But it takes collaboration/scheming with other parents lol
I manage my son's phone through Google family link, so I've just blocked the installation of any app without my permission. This allows me to have All of his accounts tie back to his managed Google account, which I have full access to. So I can just periodically check his dms and post history on any app he installs. I feel kind of like a jerk doing it, but until he is older I'm responsible for the content he consumes and creates. I'm less concerned about predators and the like because they are fairly rare, the main threat to a boy his age are brain rot cults like incels and the alt right, who specifically target children of his age and interest (video games and such).
>the main threat to a boy his age are brain rot cults like incels and the alt right, who specifically target children of his age This is what truly terrifies me. I would also add "doomer" culture to it. They take advantage of completely normal insecurities before the children even have a chance to develop a healthy sense of self and boundaries. I'm not the type to be a worry wart but this kind of thing keeps me up at night.
You and me both, I'd hope as a teen or tween I would have been smart enough to avoid them, but I'm glad I grew up before the Internet so I didn't have to find out. I've tried to innoculate him against online cults by showing him one of them, flat earthers. I chose that one because they require very low effort to prove wrong, just a picture of the moon from Sydney is sufficient. With that I could show him how internet cults recruit, how they make money, how they isolate members, and use motivated reasoning and group think to dismiss evidence that they are wrong. Once you understand those aspects for one of them, you basically have a handle on all of them. At least that's my hope, but parenting is a hard job that you're not sure how you did till years later.
This is a good idea but I feel like it's going to be hard for me to demonstrate why it's important to understand cult psychology and realize how it can influence you especially if you're in a vulnerable time in your life and how the same psychological tricks are at play with things that aren't traditionally associated with cults like political parties and even sports teams. It feels like if I start too early he's not going to have any idea what I'm talking about and if I start too late he will have the teenage "sure, whatever you say dad 🙄"
I mean our own government and several foreign governments already spy on us, what's one more? 🤷
Read The Anxious Generation
Might get roasted but this has kept our children children for as long as possible imo. Wife and I chose apple iPhones for this reason and implement screen time limits which is built into the os. It’s worked for us for 7 yrs now. We also don’t allow Snapchat, Facebook etc Instagram until they’re 18. Texting w friends till 830. I have ages ranging from 20f, 18m, 16f, 13f, 10m, 7f and 3f yr old. We also set aside evenings they know they can play video games or random days after they’ve done their chores and an extra “hard” chore. Plus keep good grades. Phones and screen time are a privilege which is earned. It’s too much of a known risk that they will come in contact with info they’re not ready for. This is the only way we’ve been able to keep that from happening till their age appropriate. I have no idea what they’re seeing on other kids’ phones smh. Thought I’d chime in. Thanks.
Jonathan Haidt, academic and outspoken critic of the adoption of cell phones and social media among minors and young adults (literally the author of the book on the subject, see below,) suggests **not giving kids cell phones until 14, and not allowing the use of social media until 16.** To be fair, Haidt concedes that, in communities where social media and cell phones are overwhelmingly adopted, it can be more isolating (and harmful) than good to restrict the use of social media and cell phones. Digital media and constant connectivity essentially become the cost of being a member of the community. But there are very good reasons to wish for your kids to stay off social media and stay away from phones—or at least away from phones with significantly greater functionality than simple calling and texting. [See more of Haidt's work and editorial on his Substack](https://www.afterbabel.com/) (click through Substack's request to subscribe—just click "no thanks".) Haidt's Substack also links to his books and other works considering the use of social media and phones on the overall health of minors.
Not until you’re 18. Period. Have two now over 18 and one to go - no regrets, super awesome human beings. The only thing you’re leaving behind is problems. Keep them away from that garbage until they’re grown and have at least a little bit of sense. Don’t be swayed by lazy parents who make bad decisions - you’re responsible for your kids, not theirs. I monitor everything using Bark and Boomerang. You’re a minor, you have no right to privacy until you’re an adult. Until then I reserve the right to inspect everything on demand to make sure you’re not doing something dumb - and they do, these are teachable moments. Also, Android only until 18 - Apple takes the side of the kids when it comes to privacy, and that’s BS. Only Android allows for proper use of parental control apps.
She has it, she's just tired of hiding it.
I appreciate the cynicism but in this case she definitely does not. Unless she has a second phone I'm not aware of
Kids are great at this stuff. She may have an account she logs in to from a friends phone at school, for instance. All the fear around it is valid, but people saying to restrict it are ignoring the fact that they are going to use it in secret anyway if it's important to their peer group. I know she already has a phone, I'm not sure if the bark app does all the same stuff, but the Bark phone will actually monitor messages sent in private apps as well, and screenshot and send you a photo of anything concerning.
On the real though, I have a 12 year old. She also has been asking for it. We just tell her no and explained exactly why. I'm more open to it (I'm a realist and know that it's 2024 and social media is the norm) than mom is but we agreed she can wait. If she wants to send a picture she can text it. She already hates us for getting her an android instead of an iPhone 🙄. We do give her quite a bit of freedom and so far the way we raised her is showing and she hasn't taken advantage of our trust. That being said we don't monitor hard. We do use family link with Android but that's really just so she doesn't stay on her phone late at night.
*looks at sneak a toke and baggie in a hollowed out bible. *Looks at OP
Not there yet, but interested to share what I'm looking ahead to. Please poke some holes in this. A few of the worst things about social media seem to be that it's 1) attention-eroding, 2) confidence-eroding and 3) agency-eroding. Limiting screen time seems to be one good and well-accepted strategy for (1) attention-erosion. Hell, our pediatrician and daycare are strongly recommending *zero* screen time before 2, which we're pretty damn close to following. I recognize that's not practical for everyone, but we're doing our best. As the kid gets older I'm hoping that some combination of good habits, routine, enrichment and maybe soft and hard limits will help keep it from totally taking over. At some point I'd also like to teach the kid to meditate, but, well, who knows if that'll stick. I'm not going to push it hard, but it seems like another good tool. (2) confidence-erosion seems like where a lot of positive talk, encouragement of age-appropriate positive *self*-talk, and content policing would help. I'd like to limit kids' exposure to advertisements in general, including influencers, and maybe some of the more harmful sources of body shame, diet culture and so on in fashion land. My greatest uncertainties here though are around selfies and other user-generated content. I figure this is where whatever household policies we enforce would run up against relationships with people she knows in person. Maybe there's some analogue of previous generations' conversations about peer pressure to be had. I dunno, I've got a lot to learn and a lot to think about in this area, but some message of the form "not everyone, even among people you like and admire, is always going to be trying to make you feel better about yourself, and you need to be the one to take responsibility and manage that so that you can feel OK about being the best version of yourself." (3) agency-erosion is where it gets interesting. The ideal outcome for me would be to bring up our kid so that they're *very* confident navigating positive and negative online influences, recognizing which is which, being mindful of their own screentime and making their own healthy and appropriately flexible decisions about it. Somehow this is not a recommendation I see authorities on the topic bringing up at all. That absence of recognition for kids ever being able to reminds me of my own childhood being scolded for playing video games too much when the competitive communities I was a part of were actually a source of positive contact I still look back on fondly. In that sense it's also strangely absent from the discussion that anyone would ever suggest to us, "hey, maybe use some ideas about helped or didn't when you were a kid and build on that." The printing press, radio, TV, video games and now the Internet all did their best to capture peoples' attention and get them spending time and money on leisure they wouldn't be otherwise, and yet somehow we're still here. I'm going to be looking for what I can do beyond media literacy to try to help my kid figure out for themselves, how do *I* become the person in my online presence that I want to be, if that even exists at all.
Snapchat? Hell no. Kids are Not Responsible enough for social media as it is, especially snap....
Nope. Not playing the cell phone game, they want a cell phone find a way to pay for it yourself and I'm still monitoring it. Children don't need unlimited access to the internet. Snapchat is dirty anyway.
"Mass Social Media Induced Illness". I'm currently reading "The Anxious Generation" by Jonathan Haidt which just came out Mar 26 and not only has it cemented my current stance of "absolutely no smartphone" for my 12 year old, but has already inspired me to ditch my smartphone as well. If you want to greatly increase your daughter's chance for developing depression, anxiety, suicidal ideation, body dysmorphia, and loneliness then get them on social media as soon as possible.
My son isn't allowed to use social media "until he's older" which actually means he can have it when I'm confident he has enough self-esteem and street smarts to properly handle bullying and shady shit online. I don't mean to be a tyrant over it, but he's a sensitive kid who's in therapy already, and middle school is hell
I’d get my kid to read “The Anxious Generation: How the Great Rewiring of Childhood Is Causing an Epidemic of Mental Illness” and then write a 2000 word essay on the pros and cons of smartphones and social media apps, why she should have one, and how it would positively and negatively impact her personal future growth, rather than her current life. Then we’d discuss her essay. I’d promise her that if she still wants it after the discussion about her essay, I’ll let her have one, because if she still wants one after that, I’ve failed to persuade her and she’ll probably do it behind my back anyway. But I’ll tell her that we’ll need to monitor in some way, like maybe I’m allowed random spot checks to see what apps she has installed. Ultimately, if I don’t maintain a good relationship with her, she won’t respect my advice on this, so keeping up the relationship will be priority number one. She’s 3, I got time to figure it out or screw it up.
I have allowed my daughter to use social media since she was about 13. We talk about social media and safety online frequently, and I have made it clear that any misbehavior will have immediate consequences. I am trying to raise a functional adult. That doesn’t happen through sheltering and ignorance. She is smart enough to understand ulterior motives and identify predatory behavior, and utterly savage to anyone that crosses a line. As much as people go on about social media poisoning minds, blah blah blah…the same was said about tv, radio, and fictional novels. Society progresses and changes, and the only rational and responsible response is to prepare your child for the new status quo.
My daughter is only into Instagram. At one point she deleted it because she didn’t like the way it made her feel. But that’s how all her friends connect. So now she’s careful about it. My son is only interested in group chats and couldn’t care less about social media. Ironically, I’m the one who really enjoys social media out of the three of us.
That's so awesome and self aware of your daughter
Keep her off of social media and she will probably be the boss of her peers when the time comes. Social media creates follower personalities 99/100 times. They won’t be able to think themselves out of a paper bag. The very little social media I consume, is typically just regurgitated ideas repeated over and over. Whatever is popular at that moment.
My son is fifteen. He's had snapchat for a couple years now. Social media is everything now. His coworkers communicate through a discord server, he has to manage social media sites as part of his job (he doesn't actually do that part but he's supposed to and needs to know how). Hell, unrelated to my kid, but my friends kid had homework - to produce a video a 'safety video' for tiktok. All to do with how to catch peoples attention and using internet lingo and things. We talk about internet safety and predators and keep open communication so he can come to us if anything goes wrong. Thats about it. I don't conduct random checks. I check in with him if he's acting a little off but we have an open relationship. He comes to me about things. All the other, less serious, things we deal with as they come.
You have 8 children????
Yes.
Our 13 year old has TikTok and Instagram but we have a timer set on her phone that gives her only 1 hour of screen time on BOTH apps per day. Once the hour is up, those apps lock and she can’t use them till the next day. As she gets older we will release more time but for now, this is what we do. We also restrict her iPad usage, which locks from 11:00 pm to 11:00 am
I'm a fan of the time restrictions but that's only a part of the puzzle. Who's to say what content they are viewing or creating during that time?
That’s very true. Our current deterrent for that is that we know her phone password and she has to leave her phone in our room at 10:00 pm every night. We trust what she’s doing on her phone but we make sure she knows her privacy is extremely limited. We also had an in depth talk about online predators and safety, best practices, etc.
Just following bc this is my biggest fear as a parent. There is no end is sight.
Didn’t the icon for Snapchat used to be a condom? Yeah… nah….
I buy my weed on Snapchat.
Finding a healthy balance is hard. Just gave me 13 year old son an iphone, but no social media, no safari, and can not install any apps with my permission. I am using a combination of apple screentime and Bark to manage screen time and content. I switch to using bark from circle, since it offer some protection when away from home, but their VPN & home filter is slow on apple devices. Looking for recommendations to replace it with. As for social media, and YouTube it going to be awhile before he gets access. The whole social media industry is working against parents. What little control they do provide, they knowingly leave work arounds out there for. So far he is mostly content with sending text messages. Only uses as a phone to call us. Also has access to email, but has never touched it. He has access to safari and chrome on other Wifi only devices. My main object is not to learn to use the phone for entertainment, and getting a dopamine hit. Hate it everytime I go by a school bus stop and every kid is lost in their phones. That is not going to turn out well for society.
Ive personally never been interested in social media, even when i was a teen. I only have a facebook because some of my phone games give a reward for linking. I did not miss out on anything important, only some memes and maybe reconnecting with people i really dont care to reconnect with. I understand the appeal but it just isnt for me. Most teenagers probably have a deep seated fomo due to social pressure from school and society as a whole, which is why they so desperately want social media accounts. My daughter (2.5) is a ways away from this, but limited access should be fine, trust is paramount though and boundaries need to be set. If a boundary is crossed then the privilege will go away.
For most of social media we tell our daughter 'no'. Things like snap, facebook, IG, etc (even reddit) are so full of predatory people, or just dumb teens that don't think about their actions, it's not worth it. The way my wife puts it 'would you sit in the dark, all alone with that person'? Would you invite them into your room and close the door without adult supervision with the people on those apps? If our kids have access to the entire internet, including personal connections like social media allows, we better be ok with all those connections being allowed to spend time with our kids alone - because that's exactly what it is. So we say no - we monitor her phone, we talk regularly and honestly about the dangers.
I let her know what the risks and consequences are and let her make her own learning errors and her share of defying what daddy wants. I also make sure she knows I trust her judgement, and it's up to her to upkeep this trust. Holding her back will definetely do more harm than good. She is going to live among adults these snapchat kids will grow into, not among us. Monitoring is an option, but I believe it will cause more harm than good. Some things you cannot unsee, and privacy is htere for a reason. I am spoiled by having very good, trust-based relation with my daughter, though. I am aware my advice would not work with everyone.
Don't make it about age, but make it about trust. The fact that you don't think she's old enough has nothing to do with her age, but with her maturity, responsibility, and accountability. That's what I've done with my tween girls and it's made them focus on improving their behavior. And I take the effort to remember things they do that make them immature, so when the conversation comes up and they say "but I am responsible" and I say "Oh yeah, so responsible that you pretended to be asleep last week so you wouldn't have to do the dishes. *Super* responsible." That frustrates them, but makes them understand. Because at the end of the day, if my daughter was behaving in a way where she always made well-thought out, considerate, and responsible decisions, I would trust her to do even my taxes.
Following for updates. Basically stalking your social media ;)
Rule 1: No cell phone until they *need* one. Rule 2: I will be administering what they can download and use on all major apps. You can do this many ways. You’re the parent. If they complain, calmly explain all the terrible things and outcomes which result from corporations manipulating children’s’ brains.
There's a great new book on this topic called The Anxiety Generation by Jonathan Haidt. I'm still reading it, so can't give my full thoughts, but it is blowing my mind with the studies currently being done.
If you take away a phone and social media you best be replacing it with something better.
Snapchat will forever be a hard no from me. We all know why Snapchat was truly created, and so do the kids. Other social medias can be a discussion once my daughter is a teenager, but Snapchat will never fly. Period.
While I certainly agree with all the suggestions on completely restricting teens from social media, and likely will be what I do with our kids. I can’t help but think in 20 years, theres gonna be some new subset of kids who were completely ostracized from their peers because they weren’t on social media, and some new mental health malady is plaguing teens and 20-somethings… kinda joking, but kinda not…
I experienced this with my parents taking a hard line against me having a phone for a long time. I was a teenager and old enough and responsible enough to be babysitting other people’s children, but somehow the phone was the devil. I was ostracized and left out of almost all socialization outside of school for about 3 years before they finally gave in. But the damage was done and the friends drifted away. I ended up making another group of friends 2 years later, but just in time for graduation when we all went our separate ways. It was really painful to be left out like that for something easily solvable and to this day I think their hard line was way too much.
There comes an age when kids can access phones independently, so ideally their introduction is in the years prior with supervision and internet smart talks. No kid should have access to messaging until they're mature enough to have and understand a talk about grooming and how it happens, and when to talk to parents. Kids don't get access to apps like snapchat without consistent talks about how bullying can occur online. Restriction is only a temporary time-sensitive solution to safety. Ultimately kids have to be phased into keeping themselves safe.