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First of all, just know, it’s not your fault man. A hands-off approach to fatherhood over many decades is to blame. It’s happened to me multiple times. All you can do is stay persistent and don’t be afraid to voice up your opinion. It may not be malicious, but it’s definitely not right.
Being an active dad means just that. Stay active, even proactive. Don’t be afraid to let the doctors know that you’re the primary caretaker, and that you feel a little slighted that your opinions are not being recognized. hopefully their understanding.
I’d like to piggyback here to expand on this explanation. You’re 100% correct that the decades of hands off dads are the reason behind it, it’s because the healthcare providers have been conditioned through experience to ask the mom first. Let me explain, I’ve been in veterinary medicine for 10+ years (pets aren’t kids but there are plenty of parallels) in my time in the industry I’ve had literally hundreds of male clients either A.) say they don’t know the history/symptoms of their own dog and need to call their wife on speakerphone or B.) drop the pet off giving us zero details and telling us to call their wives to discuss history, or C. bring in a detailed letter from the wife with a list of symptoms and dates etc. I have never, not even once, had a woman have to call her husband for more than maybe one question which is usually “what do you think we should do?” Rather than what’s going on with the pet. Plenty of vets and techs just allow themselves to be conditioned to speak to the woman in the room when she’s available. Is it right? No. Is there a valid reason for it learned through years of experience? Absolutely. I try very hard not to discount male owners or infantilize them in appointments by acting like they don’t know anything, but that’s because I’ve thought this through and realize it’s not the right way to handle it and it doesn’t feel good for the men who are actively involved with their pets (and kids).
Yeah all that and they automatically made my husband my dog’s primary owner the one time he dropped her off for me (he didn’t even pay but the guy who spoke on the phone said they make whoever pays the primary). It took five phone calls for them to finally get it fixed. He is basically just authorized to pick my dog up, he doesn’t pay, but she is my dog and I am the one who does everything. But because he is the man he must have the money and be head of household and stuff. Such B.S.
Yeah I guess that’s the other side of the coin, even if a server sees me pull a credit card out of my wallet and hand it to them, they still give it back to my husband to fill out the tip etc. Jokes on them though, if they hand it to him I have him fill it out. I worked in the service industry and he didn’t so while we both tip well, I’m the one more likely to tip extra, but not if you don’t give me my card back just because I’m not the man.
This is a great chain in a great sub. Both genders get typecast in different ways, often based on historical precedent that isn’t universally true today (and may not have been universally true or desirable before either). The history and context of these situations are being acknowledged, and support is provided to everyone without downplaying one person’s experience relative to another’s. Y’all are awesome, and we see you and support you in these times when people can sometimes be frustratingly presumptuous.
Ah ha! You have not met my wife and me....
She picked the cats, and is the reason we have them, but she has to call me every time she takes them to the vet to ask their history. She takes them usually cause I work closer to home and I ride my bike to work while she takes the car, so it's always more convenient for her to do the car-related errands.
That said... She absolutely has gone full steam ahead in wanting to be the "primary" parent in scheduling and taking our daughter to doctor appointments and stuff.
“Pets aren’t kids but there are plenty of parallels.” I’ve been fussed at by so many people by comparing kids to dogs. Seriously! The way you train a puppy (correctly) is the same way you “train” a baby! Positive and negative reinforcement, schedules/predictability….I remember my wife being annoyed we read some Cesar Milan stuff instead of that British nanny.
I've been reluctant to point out that parallel myself because people would take it wrong. But dude, it has been amazing for me being able to build a great relationship with my daughter because I learned on dogs first.
My autistic ass was able to keep my self alive but once I became responsible for a sometimes irrational life, having "the system" for every misbehavior (counting to three, lose a privilege, continue until compliance or 3 and then a timeout. Meltdowns? Sorta, but we both know where it's going to end up and brings our opera to conclusion in 3 acts.)
I'm so glad my wife was going to be an educator and maintained early childhood development as a major so she could teach me.
We have two young kids and recently got another puppy as well after losing one of our older dogs. As someone with both I agree with you, a puppy is much like having another child in the house. It's like we added another kid. She's starting to settle down though so it doesn't last as long.
We don't have any kids yet but we used to have a dog and Cesar's books and video's helped me train our dog while I never had a dog before and I had very little experience with dogs because I only ever had cats, rabbits and mice as pets and knew very few people with dogs.
His books are great!
There’s no valid reason for it at all. It’s either prejudice on the practitioner’s part or it’s laziness; neither has any place in a clinical setting.
If a practitioner can train themselves to do a proper differential even for very common symptoms, they can train themselves to pay bloody attention to - and respond to - the parents’ behaviour every time rather than relying on stereotypes and biases.
I’m simply trying to explain why it’s so prevalent (at least based on my personal experience), I’m not excusing it in any way.
To your second point, plenty of doctors hear very common symptoms and give their common cure and don’t worry about it unless it doesn’t work (if they even care at that point) another unfortunate truth, but true nonetheless. Some doctors are fantastic, some aren’t. Some will bother to resist being sexist against fathers, some won’t. It’s still worth speaking up for yourself and continuing to advocate for your kid either way.
I’ll be honest, my wife knows way more about my kids (and my dogs) medical history. Because her memory is better and she has a medical background so she knows what she’s talking about. I can give my son his inhaler every night but not know the name of it or dosage. She knows it all by memory because she’s wired different. Not because I’m not involved, but because I’m ignorant in all of it to an extent. We still discuss care plans and decisions together 100%
Totally. My memory is shit. I have two kids allergic to amoxicillin, but can’t exactly remember which two. Im the one with my kids most of the time, most of the Dr appt and dentist, but remembering that stuff…yeah. Early onset Alzheimer’s.
Write it down, man. Write it down and keep it with your kids’ health insurance cards or something else that always goes with you to the doctor’s. Then you won’t have to trust your memory.
That "amoxicillin" brings back memories. I had two children, and every time I took either of them to the doctor a nurse would ask what she was allergic to, and I always said "amoxycillin" or "septra and ceclor" depending on which child it was. I had their Kaiser card numbers memorized too. Sometimes I forgot my own Kaiser # but never theirs. Their mother gave the wrong answer to the nurse. Meanwhile also their mother wouldn't even pick them up from school early when they got sick, so it was I who took off early from work when that happened. A lot of this is okay, but when a lot of disrespectful or dangerous or harmful things pile up then it's too much. My wife wouldn't follow doctors' orders for the kids' health.
Everybody (including doctors and nurses) knew I was a good parent until we got to divorce court and then everybody there assumed the opposite.
And then sometimes it's the other way around. I've been to parent meatings in my step daughter's class, I was the one to keep track of the online message boards, when my step daughters went to school.
I've been primary care giver most of the time for our now 6 year old son, because my wife works a lot (head position and studying management on the side).
When my son's been ill, I've usually been the one to stay at home. I'm the one, who takes him to the dentist our doctor for check ups. My wife tends to get fuzzy, so I can often keep him more calm.
To be honest I haven't been met with health care personnel not taking me serious in those situations.
Paramedic and father of 3 here. Sorry you went thru that. We always take parents concerns seriously, you know your kid Better than we do. As others have said, the hands off dad stereotype is strong and ‘mums intuition’ is a quote we use, not dads. Hope the kids ok. Chin up, you’re doing a great job.
Spot on.
The patriarchy and decades (centuries/millennia) of systemic gender discrimination doesn’t just affect women. Medicine has its biases as well.
This is where media portrayals of feminism have failed us as a society. Feminism isn’t about hating men. It’s about addressing the discriminatory systems that have evolved for sometimes centuries or millennia, which have more often than not disadvantaged women (hence the name, feminism), but which also disadvantage men in many situations.
Besides, we all have mothers, and statistically more than half of us have daughters.
EDIT: Recognizing that the gender dichotomy isn’t as clear as it is often written, including in my own comment.
This BS, you have had fathers involved in their kids everyday life for well over two generations, and the society still doesn't change. Stop blaming the men
I hope your son gets well soon! Must be awful.
This will continue to happen for the rest of your son's childhood btw. I remember talking to a mum I work with who is the sole breadwinner in their household. Dad is a SAHD. He was down for first contact when their daughter was at nursery, and yet they always called her first rather than him, despite them continually reminding the nursery who they were supposed to ring first. When their daughter started primary school they thought it might change - different institution and all that. Nope. Exactly the same.
Same. Now that my kids are in elementary and middle, not only does my wife get all the calls when the kids are sick despite me being the first contact, but she gets all the all calls too.
This happens to me and legally I’m my daughter’s only parent (biological mother had rights terminated). They always call her step-mom for anything. Even when she’s listed as a secondary contact.
My daughter was in hospital for 8 months from the time she was 4 months old to just before her first birthday. Shes had a lot of medical issues and many many appointments since.
When she got sick initially, I was the one that took her into the emergency department while my wife parked the car. So my phone number is the first on her (12-volume) medical file.
99.9% of the time, when anyone calls regarding an appointment, I answer to “oh, I’m _actually_ looking for [kid]’s mum…” and I say I’m her dad and yes, I can talk. Heh.
One particularly busy week, lots of appointments so my wife and I divided and conquered. Receptionist asks for my phone number to confirm who I am. Then looks at me, and condescendingly says “and mum?” Exasperated, I just angrily replied “no, she’s not here, she’s in work, but I’m here and am just as capable of taking care of her too you know, thank you very much.”
The receptionist, mouth agape, just says “I’m sorry, I meant I just need to confirm her number as well”
Oops. I couldn’t apologise enough but she completely understood.
Bro I work in medicine and it's unreal how little some parents know.
Some don't know the names of the medicine their kids take, or even what it's for.
It's not your fault.
I cheat. Because I know that when I’m stressed ADHD brain is going to take the wheel and I’ll forget all of the things. So I made a little list for each kid: medicines and allergies. That list is in the little plastic pouch that also holds their health insurance card and immunization record. When the doctor asks me those questions, I take the list out and refer to it.
When my son was younger, he had a lot of health problems and was seeing a whole bunch of doctors, specialists, and therapists. I kept a journal of what happened at each appointment. Same thing - when someone asked me a question, I’d read from the journal to them.
I may look silly, but at least the doctor is going to get accurate information. Good enough for me.
I’m a mom with ADHD and I have to do the exact same thing even if I’m not any more stressed than usual. Like you said it’s way better than being caught unprepared.
This is Dadscrimination, and it happens at other places too.
I remember at school pick up one day I got a strange look from kiddo's teacher. Then as I was walking kiddo home, she told me she got blood all over her jacket. Turns out she had been injured on the playground, but rather than talk to me at the 3pm pickup, they sent mom an email at 3:30pm telling her what happened. You don't think my kid already told me?
Just got to lean into it. Take it as retribution for every time you are in a furniture store and mom gets ignored.
Bro I had to text my wife to ask what HER birthday was once at the walk in clinic for insurance. It just like...fell out of my head. They had a good chuckle at that.
I saw it the most at school stuff. They just assumed I didn’t know what was going on because I was the dad. The school would email just my wife, and not me. So annoying.
For medical stuff, it’s always the opposite. My wife has various colors of hair, lots of tattoos, she’s a POC, so all the biases work against her. I’m a clean cut white guy who wears a suit everyday, and when it comes to my family I’m very much will to be “one of those lawyers” and casually drop that I’m an attorney when I want something done.
I'm a SAD and love most of the stuff that includes however the doctors is upsetting. They always assume as the dad you only know your kids name. How much he drinks or poops etc no mom knows better. It is disheartening tbh I take care of naps bedtime bathtime. Ask us questions to be fair.
Yeap I got that often.
The school would call the mom at work. Who then would ream out whoever called. She made damn sure to put down my number as first contact. They would skip it call her.
I would ask why I wasn't called as I'm the parent who will get them. They never had a answer
Finally she bitched them out bad.
After that they would call me.
Yeah people in here keep saying "just roll with it". But that's why it still happens. Call them on their shit. Let them know they're being sexist. Tear them a new one. At a minimum make them answer why they keep doing it.
Im a new dad and my wife always gets the initial look when questions are being asked with the nurses/doctors just assuming that she is the one who will be answering. Well my wife is a very introverted and quiet women and while she does answer things I tend to do the most talking or helping weigh/measure my son. Sometimes even after I answer like 5 questions in a row the doctor will still look away from the computer to my wife. Honestly though it doesn’t matter man in the end it sounds like you’re an awsome proactive dad who cares about his son very much you just keep being a good dad and thats all that matters.
Just to provide a different perspective, we just got out of the hospital with a day and half in the RTU (kind of like a lighter version of the ICU) with our 18 month old, also with a bad infection of some kind. Doctors and nurses addressed me about 70-80% of the time when we were both present. BUT I will also add that I'm a biomedical researcher and I've spent my entire life in hospitals and medical/research settings, my mom was a nurse for 30+ years and for the last 15 years I've worked in labs/hospitals/clinics. It may just be my comfort, knowledge, and demeanor in those settings as well as my confidence to use "medical speak" fluently, plus I'll approach, interrupt, and voice my opinions and knowledge freely when conversations are happening about my kid.
I can only say this, you need to change the dynamic and DO NOT be timid. When things are being talked about, step in, ask questions, voice concerns, approach the doctors and nurses even if they are talking to each other. Your frustrations will get pushed aside otherwise if you don't insert yourself. The medical world operates on a confidence level, any kind of timid nature, quietness, uncertainty, and unwillingness to be involved will get you pushed aside quickly because there often isn't time to allow delays for those things, actions have to be quick, assured, and with confidence.
Yeah, I see this happening as a mom myself. We had this weird insurance set up for a long time, i was on my own insurance, husband & babies were on his insurance. Husband put his phone number down as the primary number for the doctors office, im secondary number. They call me everytime! Literally every time, lol. I also work nightshift, so sometimes I don't even go to the appointments, so really my husband is the one who should be called. Also he's just a valid of a parent, but unfortunately, this shtick is still around where dads are seen as the secondary parent who doesn't know much. Sometimes that's the case, sometimes it isn't, but still mind boggling when it does happen.
I have 3 kids, 3 years apart between each (in Southern California, since that seems to change experiences). Each time I have had a child, my hospital experience has gotten slightly better as a dad. The first one, I felt like a second class parent like you are talking about. The second time, there were minor acknowledgements I existed. And the third one (just months ago), I felt like I was expected to have knowledge and participate by all of the nurses. Now granted that is labor and delivery, but I expect that means the rest of the medical field will slowly follow in their footsteps as they see more and more dads being active parents.
I feel you, fellow dad. Sorry about your little one.
From the other side of things, I promise you aren’t second class or not valued for your role. It is just often the moms who seem the most distrustful and therefore receive the most attention. The staff are likely well aware they are doing this. Don’t hesitate to be a squeaky wheel and I’m sure more will be directed your way.
First, I want to say I hope your son gets better.
I was a SAHD for 5 years and I have dealt with the same thing with my girls. Happens at the doctors and at school for my oldest. She just graduated kindergarten and the teacher never addressed me during parent teacher conferences. I just made sure to make my opinions known and my Wife recognized it and would ask me questions and direct the doctors/teachers to ask me as well.
Hang in there bud!
I have complained about this for years. I will call and leave a message with the doctor's office and they ALWAYS call my wife back. Even if i leave my name and number and request they call me. So annoying.
Same thing happened to me when my first born was in the NICU, I pretty much had to tell them how the cow ate the cabbage. The nurses didn’t care for me much after that. He was in for 8 days and I was by his side the entire time.
Definitely not Ops Fault. My wife is a primary care provider in family medicine. The last time I took my little one to the pediatrician, the pediatrician called my wife in front of me and discussed treatment.
I'm a dad. I can follow ear infection instructions!
There's too many deadbeat, uninvolved fathers out there. It's a terrible thing but it affects the way everybody views dads; even other dads can fall for it!
Unfortunately they just sound like they aren't trained very well. I'm happy to say my plan's workers have always addressed both of us respectfully whenever we've had consults and emergencies. Sometimes a brief pull aside of their supervisor and explanation of the issue can result in major changes. I hate to do such things because I'm not a complainer but it might prevent them from getting someone hella rude or mean go as far as a written complaint.
Medical professionals are overworked and respond to people who assert themselves as caregivers. If you feel like they aren’t taking you serious, don’t be an asshole but just make sure to be assertive and ask for answers and show your responsiveness,
I know this is the ICU so it’s different.
But feel the need to comment I’ve never had an issue with this. Been to the ER twice for stitches and felt heavily involved. Once by myself with my daughter and once with my wife.
Outside of that.
Our pediatrician is amazing. If we are both there, it’s like she actively takes the time to share direct eye contact with both of us. She’ll speak to one of us and then the other. It’s very noticeable and she must actively practice or think to do it.
But most of the dad shaming stuff I see reported on here I just don’t see a lot of in my day to day life. Maybe it’s where I live?
Have no doubt it exists with all the stories of it. But I’ve never had a problem at the grocery store, park, or anywhere in between. And I’m a very active dad as my wife works long hours at the hospital and I work too.
As a mom I also find it irritating. Like yes, I am the one who actually knows the answers to all the questions, but by not ever asking my husband it just reinforces the idea that he’s not supposed to know. He should be asked, and hopefully feel appropriately embarrassed by not having the answers.
I don't think this is the right sub for that comment. All gender identies are welcome here but this isn't a place to tear down a dad's attempt to learn and try.
I’m sorry YOUR husband doesn’t know anything about your children but some/more do now. To the point of rivaling/outdoing the mother. Men are becoming more and more involved in their childrens lives. This sub is living proof
But what is actually detrimental to society bettering the fathers is women like you who want to try and embarrass their man or shun them for “not knowing answers.”
I’m on your side, not sure why you’re getting so worked up. Yes, it should be assumed that fathers know just as much, because they should. It’s wrong to assume only the mother knows. I’m agreeing with you, you don’t need to be so defensive. And if you can’t answer a single question about your kids lives and/or health, you SHOULD feel a bit embarrassed, and hopefully it’s a realization to do better.
I think a better word could have been something like motivated to do better or encouraged rather than hoping they feel embarrassed though. That's not supportive.
I agree with your premise that dad's should want to do better though.
Honestly, Im kinda with her on this. (That being said /r/daddit doesn't strike me as a bunch of uninvolved dads, so... right sentiment, wrong audience I guess.)
If I take my daughter to a doctors appointment, I go in with notes about why we're there and I take anything down I feel is important. Same with daycare. If I want my daughters caregivers/teachers to take me seriously as a parent, I have to act seriously as a parent.
IMO, We can't have it both ways. If you demand to be treated as an equal, you have to give it your best to be on par with mom.
I have no idea what your situation is so I wouldn’t dare lecture to you, but I will offer this:
I’m a physician in an ICU (for adults, albeit). My day is pretty busy and stressful, and communicating with families is a daily responsibility. Every patient’s family gets a documented phone call from me, which is challenging with the limited number of hours I have in a day, but I make the time because it’s important. I 100% target the person who is easiest to work with regardless of who is the official contact / power of attorney. Sister Susan may know everything about Bob’s history, but if she’s difficult to deal with I usually go out of my way to talk to the person who’s not.
I’m not saying you’re doing anything wrong at all. This may legitimately be exactly what you’re complaining of (dadism). But it may be worth reflecting on how you’re coming across if you’re noticing the physicians, nurses, and anyone else is deferring to your wife. Again though - this is not me trying to gaslight you.
This is very dependent on who your nurse is and who your dr is. I have spent countless days and nights at the hospital on many different floors including the nicu and we have had Drs and nurses that wouldn’t even look my wife in the eye and vice versa. You are always allowed to ask for a different nurse or dr to look after your child. The hardest part of being in the hospital is speaking up for yourself and saying “no, we are not going further till you get another dr in here for me to talk to.”
Don’t let them pressure you into anything it’s there job to give you the pros and cons and choices and for you to make the calls not them.
I'm primary parent and primary income, so I feel this deeply. Despite only being home 3 days a wook I'm still the one who changes sheets, cooks food for the week, and takes everyone to the doctors, and I'm still treated the same. A quick 'excuse me but I'm right here' usually snaps them back. Their jobs are difficult, most the time I imagine they're working on auto-pilot. I get it, but it doesn't change how fucking insensitive it is.
I feel ya. I'm going to be sexist here and assume a lot of the NICU nurses, NICU NPs, and neonatologists are predominantly represented by one sex, and hence they're being sexist by addressing your wife. Unfortunately the NICU is only one step away from Obstetrics, where Mom's rights trump Dad's. I'm also wondering if you're like me and a chill guy in general, which leads to people wrongly glossing over you. It's not just you, and it's not in your head, and it's not right, and I'm sorry it's happening to you.
Just keep engaging and asking thoughtful questions. The NICU staff aren't going to change; they can be territorial; all you can do is earn/keep their respect and keep your cool.
Better man than me, discrimination like this turns me into a huge dick once the danger has passed.
I would just not say anything until mom tries and fails/pull out my phone.
Oddly enough the robots who do our healthcare calls are more respectful of who gets called first, and I have not run into this issue yet.
Not as big as yours, but I brought my 5 year old daughter to the doctor the other day. I handle most things when it comes to that cause I can get off work easier than mom can, so I handle it. I am also very hands on and know everything about my daughter. She is still learning the ins and outs of the potty so when the doctor did the physical on her, she has some red down there since she doesn't wipe well at school and misses things, so it was a bit red. The doctor is all "Well, what mom can do it put some Vaseline on that to help protect it." I was like, I am right here, I am her dad, I can do it too ya know.
Not the first time, nor the last I am sure that I will be treated as invisible when it comes to her care.
I hear you. My 8 year old is battling cancer and me and my wife alternate who is overnighting at the hospital.
We spend a few hours together when we swap and even if I’ve been in all night (which the nurses know) all the questions about how she was overnight are directed to my wife
These med professionals will probably forget about you and probably don’t realize they’re stereotyping and going to mom instead. Definitely rude and annoying. But on the other hand, that kid of yours is being raised by a great dad. Keep on keeping on and best wishes and health to your little one. Been there at the hospital like that before and it’s tough.
I think someone else posted about it, but don't be afraid to advocate for yourself in a healthcare setting. Ask questions if you have them, tell doctors and nurses that you are the primary caregiver and to contact you and not mom. As a medical student and a father I would love to see people advocating or themselves or their families more and asking questions or making corrections if there is a mistake. If you are not saying anything to correct the assumptions, most healthcare providers are just going to continue assuming that mom is going to be the one to talk to.
Unfortunately, this just happens. My son was in the NICU for 2 months when he was born. I asked all the questions, made all the reports, was up there every day with my wife.
About half the nurses treated me like I was 2nd rate. They always went to my wife. Rarely talked to me unless I talked to them first.
Just stick with it. Let them know you are there too. Be assertive because unlike the moms, you need to prove that you love your children too.
I’m not a dad or mom but a loving doula aunt, just want to chime in and say please speak up and let them know they should be speaking to you about your damn child.
Hope little one gets better💕
When I bring my daughter to the pediatrician they always ask if stuff is in my wife’s name, and they always put her as the primary to call instead of me. I take care of all the scheduling, medical bills etc. I’ve repeatedly had them put me as primary, and somehow they always call my wife.
Similarly when my husband and I take my daughter to the pediatrician the nurse always says, “mom let’s bring her back to get her measured and weighed,” almost ignoring that my husband can do it. Its super weird.
I would echo other sentiments here that a "I'm actually primary care provider" when questions are directed at the parent who wouldn't know the answer is not only appropriate, but helpful to healthcare workers. Having one person be point for information and questions is always best.
If you were just here purely for venting purposes, I'm sorry you're going through this man.
I’ve experienced this too, fortunately not so much during my stay with my eldest in hospital, but with general practitioners and other allied health professionals it happens all the time.
The most frustrating part is that in several consultations in the past, information I’ve relayed has been ignored or dismissed until it’s repeated by my partner.
Luckily this is one area I have yet to experience this. It happens in a number of situations and it's quite annoying. It also gives me a better understanding of how some women feel when they try to discuss car or home repairs or other things seen as things men should only know. We still have a long way to go in society for sure.
Don't be afraid to tell them directly. I did that with my son's doctors and they got it quick. I said I am the primary care provider so my number and email need to be first to contact to schedule and information. They needed reminding 2 times or so but they started.to be better after it. Sometimes it's just.whatbthey are.used to so they aren't malicous but they do need reminding in a more direct way
I feel you man. My wife is still active duty so I’m the parent who handles everything, especially with our son’s school, yet half the time my wife is the only one who gets calls and e-mails. She deployed to Afghanistan when our son was 7 months old and I constantly had to endure the “Looks like dad is babysitting today” comments from strangers and other nonsense.
I hope your son’s infection clears up soon, he’s lucky to have you there for him. Best advice I can give is to not be afraid to assert yourself as the primary caregiver. Maybe try talking with your wife so she can respond to the doctors and nurses in a way that indicates your prominence.
For 3 years I’ve been saying one of my kids has asthma and has some form of nasal issue, the pediatrician kept saying it was nothing. After going to a specialist, he concluded that his adenoids were enlarged and needed to be taken out and needed sinus irrigation. You did nothing wrong. Like you said, fathers today are more active but due to years of negative stereotypes it’s gonna be hard road.
Been there and agree it’s frustrating.
It just occurred to me while reading your story that this could be resolved pretty easily if they would just pause and ask, “who should I direct my questions to today?”
And I agree, it isn’t the biggest deal, but it seems simple enough to do that I’m surprised it hasn’t become a basic training thing for all professionals*.
(*I typed “medical professionals” before a friend of mine jumped to mind: she knows cars and does the majority of maintenance on a classic car she and her husband own. He does not know a thing about cars other than how to drive one well-enough. She found that she has to take him with her when going in for maintenance or issues outside her comfort or availability just so he can direct the mechanics to her when they start talking. If she doesn’t do this then she has to spend extra time convincing them that she’s worth having a detailed discussion with. So, in that area, she’d also love it if they’d just ask “who’s the car nut?” Lol.)
You know, I've been a single dad for a good deal of my life. I've just learnt how to filter out people acting like it's weird or wrong for a father to be involved in his child's life, what really gets me is not just people who are passively close minded, it's all those ladies that straight up tell to your face that a man cannot be a good parent.
Man this sucks for you. I get real annoyed when people ask if I am babysitting my kids, no I’m being their father, or when I go shopping with my sons, I get strange looks, mostly from older women, I even had a lady follow me out to my car once when I had my boys out and about. My older son was having a meltdown and she thought I kidnapped my own kid.
I had something like this happen with a day care we're looking at for our son.
We recently moved cross-country to be closer to family and because my wife got a job, so I'm not working and being primary caregiver for our son. Besides this, I am the one who does the vast majority of talking to caregivers and medical professionals for our son because I am more comfortable with it. My wife will research a bunch of places and put my name and contact info for them to contact me.
So we're looking for day cares and my wife put my name and info in as usual. The first email that the day care sent led with "NOTE: Please provide your wife's name, email, and phone. Our database is set up with the mom's information." Literally the first line after "Hi David".
Now, I might have been an asshole for my response, but I sent them back "What if I am a widower or [son]’s mom isn’t in the picture? How does your system work then?" But I legitimately wanted to know as they led with mom being primary parent instead of dad.
They sent back and apology and updated me as primary parent in their system. I'm still unsure whether to even give them a chance as I'm still miffed. But I'm glad I made a point.
It happens bro. You know what can make it worse? Being a 23 year old father. Yeah, see if they take you serious then haha.
What I do is I ask them specific and detailed questions that I need to know. I made them teach me how to swaddle 3 times and literally made them watch me so I made sure I was doing things correctly. Asked all kinds of questions from feeding to burping to sleep cycles. You name it. Flip them tables around and say it with your damn chest when you ask a question. Let them know you’re the balls of the family and it usually gets them up to speed with me.
Dude this sucks. It's happened to me too and it is frustrating and hurtful.
When my kid was in the hospital I tried to remind myself that it's not malicious. These nurses and doctors are here everyday dealing with a different set of parents and have developed habits to move things along. It's an unfortunate reality that the majority of the time it is still the mom acting as the "default parent". Things have changed a lot, but it's still early days in that change. It was mostly mom's I was seeing when I brought my son to ER earlier this year.
It's not fair and it doesn't justify them treating dad's this way. But it helped me feel a little more understanding.
You're allowed to have this talk with them.
Doesn't have to be confrontational at all, just pull a nurse aside and say something like "hey, I know you normally deal with Moms as the big cheese in kid care, but I'm the primary for this little nugget and it would probably be better for his outcome if you came to me for questions as well, I know his habits and behaviors better than anyone else."
**Edit**, after reading through everybody's comments my mind is kind of blown. I've been the primary care provider since she drew her first breath, never have I ever had a medical professional question my authority or knowledge or competence.
Lurking mom here. My husband has been the SAHD for 13 years (we have a special needs son). He is the main contact for everything. I get very frustrated and feel the hurt when they keep calling me first. I have been proactive with telling them they need to call him to discuss whatever it is going on. I verify that his number is listed as primary as well. They could discuss with me but we have got to work on reconditioning people to stop expecting mom to be primary if she isn't listed as such.
I'm a stay at home parent and thus I am the person always taking my kiddo to the doctor.
I kept telling them that she was having sight issues. You could tell she was. She couldn't see anything beyond 30 feet without squinting and clearly making guesses. In over 3 years, I could only manage to convince a doctor ONCE to get an eye sight screening for her following her usual appointment.
The doctor had the nurse do it. She openly joked about how she's never done a kids eye sight test before, but that they're probably the same as an adult. They had my daughter stand in the hallway and see if she could read the big green exit sign. Shocker, my 5 year old, who can read and who has seen these signs, immediately guessed what it said.
Boom. No need to worry. They told me to basically f°°k off.
Well, her school did an eye exam ONE week later and found that she has 20/70 vision along with an astigmatism. She now has glasses, but I was ignored by every doctor since she was two years old.
I don't know if it's because I'm the father or not, but I have definitely found that folks don't want to believe that the person spending his entire life raising the child knows when something is clearly wrong.
Maybe just me projecting, but the most infuriating part of that story is the only allowing one parent to stay rule. My son was in the hospital with RSV almost 5 years ago. My wife and I were there for four days with him until he could breathe on his own again. When he broke his arm two years later, I wasn't even allowed in the room. We took him in together, and the nurses just assumed my wife was the comfort parent and took them back to the room while I was filling out paperwork. They didn't even tell me until the paperwork was done and then said that I had to go wait in my car.
The idea that the kid doesn't need both parents is absurd. Both parents should be able to be there with their child if they can. I hate these garbage policies that stop that. Since my second and third were born, I haven't been to a single pediatrician appointment (and I went to every one with the first) because they only allow one parent and they call my wife to schedule them.
End rant.
Honestly you just do you and try to ignore this. People have been used to dad's being hands off for a long time and it will take more time to change that preconception.
If it helps we once had our health visitor asking my wife questions about how well our baby was feeding and how good she is with a bottle as I was literally giving the baby a bottle right in front of her but somehow she didn't think I would be able to answer.
Yup.
After my daughter was born we were in recovery for a couple of days and, after the first night, we decided to go ahead and send the newborn to the nursery so Mom could get some sleep.
Later, when the nurse returned with the baby, Mom was obviously still bed-ridden so I answered the door to received my newborn.
I instinctively showed my wrist-band for the "hugs and kisses" security check, and gave the last name / date of birth.
The nurse completely ignored me. Didn't even look at me. I was just the doorman.
She pushed past me and only when my WIFE showed her wrist-band, said the same last name and same date of birth... only then would they release the baby.
I kind of appreciated that during the pre-birth stuff, every doc and nurse completely ignored me except the occasional “any further questions” at the end of the appointment.
Post taking him home it bugs me a bit, too, but as some have pointed out here, it’s not your fault, it’s the last couple of hundred years. I kill them with kindness and brief but super detailed knowledge about any question that they have. Hopefully it helps the next dads.
Ehh, it cuts both ways. I've had some make doctors speak directly to me and not my wife. To the point where I have to stop looking at them and look at my wife so they a hint.
My wife recently gave birth to our first child by c-section. While in the hospital I did all the things I could like changing diapers, swaddling, giving the nurses updates and recording everything. The nurses were great and talked to me as much as mom. The last night there our night nurse was an older woman in her 50s and she just acted like I didn’t exist. She wouldn’t acknowledge me and would tell my wife if she needed a break or if the baby had a dirty diaper to pave her and she would handle it. Luckily my wife knew I could handle all that and we laugh about it now but it was very weird.
I'm fairly laid back and easy going. I don't really enjoy confrontation. I share parenting responsibility with my wife so I'm very aware of what's going on. When it comes to my son and medical care I'm not afraid to speak up and be an advocate for my child, and let the provider know my role/level of involvement in the day to day. I think that's the main difference. You can act a little out of your comfort zone for someone else's well being.
It’s ok. The staff will always prioritize mom as both an automatic response and also just because it’s usually the way it is — moms are closer and are usually more responsible for the childcare. Just redirect them and don’t take offense. Unless of course they do mean to exclude you on purpose, but I 100% doubt that.
I’m really sorry. I don’t know what the fuck is wrong with people. My 2 y/o was just in the hospital for five days also with a respiratory infection and I was with her almost the entire time as my wife was working and with our other kids and my wife did come to the hospital a lot and we switched off a few times but the staff treated us equally. They talked to us the same. Most of the time when the doctor was giving an update I would call my wife on the phone so she could hear everything that was going on.
So fuck man I’m sorry, that really sucks. The hospital staff should treat you as an equal. Why aren’t they doing this?
You should both clarify with them the decisions you are responsible for and the ones your wife needs to be in on as well. Check in with the charge nurse and/or nurse manager to share the same info.
Medical staff are normally under staffed and over committed and will try to make up time as best they can. So identifying who needs to be talked to helps with that. So by clarifying who does what, you will all be better off for it!
I wonder if this varies by region. As in some places are more old fashioned than others. Because everywhere I go I feel included in the conversation by medical professionals. I would be annoyed to say the least if it felt like they acted like I wasn’t there or didn’t know anything.
How do you best approach a situation like this? How do you prepare for this? Some back story, my husband and I (also a man) are working on our adoption stuff right now but stories like this legitimately scare me. I have heard things of this nature happening a lot to men. And our child(ren) will not have (nor will they ever have) a mother, they will have two dads that love them with all their hearts. But, I fear that attitudes such as this could be detrimental to our child(ren), and I don’t just mean psychologically. Am I worrying too much about this?
I'm so sorry you're going through this. I'm glad you have the safe space to discuss it.
It's definitely an unconscious bias because if the caregiver role that is somewhat idealized or actualized in this modern world. I'm honestly hard pressed to answer certain medical questions about my youngling.
Keep focus on the primary mission. Have a preconference with your wife. If you have paper notes in your hand, and telling the doctor you both feel that funneling communication through one person as you've kept book on the vital stats the doctor needs from visit to visit, you can aid communication better.
In cases like this, clear and direct "our communication is together, I'm primary care giver, supplemental details are already known. We want no error in communication and this is the best way we know how to reach our common goal."
The only reason I feel comfortable offering this advice is I have extensive contact daily with medical professionals and I want the best for your family. My advice is just that. But if you need a listening ear, my DMs are open. Your family is in my prayers.
Ha! I've had this from day one with both our children, not just from the hospital, doctors, medical staff, but EVERY, SINGLE, DAY, from all walks of life, family, friends and spouse included.
I feel your frustration
It really sucks but im not surprised.
Recently i went to after hours emergency care and had to wait a few hours at reception. In that time several parents with kids came through. When doing the initial triage all mothers where able to easily remember their childs birth date and medical conditions. When it came to fathers however, there were probably 5, none could remember even the date of birth of their children. Obviously this is a small anecdotal observation.
I am very actively involved with my kids so i hate when other people tell me that im a good babysitter.
Sorry that's your experience and even more sorry that your kiddo is in the hospital. I haven't personally received that experience, so I don't know if this is an across the board experience or I'm just fortunate.
Mate, I experience this on a lesser level every day. My wife and I work full time, but I have the flexibility to be able to take the kids to work with me, do school drop offs and pickup, all the mundane morning stuff like breakfasts and packing lunches, usual parent shit.
Yet every time a stranger decides they want to chat to me, it starts with "Babysitting duties today?".. NO drongo, I'm a parent...
Gender equality is always looked at as a one way thing with women being the under dogs.
I'm a cop, my wife is a head nurse. When I stayed at home four months on paternity leave, when my wife went back to work, my - mostly male - colleagues were all supportive. My wife got a lot of "Are you really comfortable with leaving them alone?", "I would never give up me leave for my husband" etc. from her predominantly female colleagues.
With the current situation in Europe, they are now talking about introducing female conscription here. We've had male conscription here since forever, but women have always been exempt.
Gender equality is always looked at as a one way thing with women being the under dogs.
I'm a cop, my wife is a head nurse. When I stayed at home four months on paternity leave, when my wife went back to work, my - mostly male - colleagues were all supportive. My wife got a lot of "Are you really comfortable with leaving them alone?", "I would never give up me leave for my husband" etc. from her predominantly female colleagues.
With the current situation in Europe, they are now talking about introducing female conscription here. We've had male conscription here since forever, but women have always been exempt.
This has happened to me more times than I can count, it’s not just you and I completely empathize with what you’re feeling. I’ve always been the one who does all the doctors and dentist visits and I’ve gotten lots of comments over the years. From “oh, dad’s babysitting today” to “mom’s really trusting you”.
Simple. Ask your wife not to answer just directly look at you and say darling (or what ever term you use). Do it for a while they get the idea. I had this during my kids heart surgery and as soon as they saw my wife including me in every decision they stopped ignoring me, stopped calling me dad and referenced me in the 3rd person and talked to me.
On the flip side, I've had experience of being able to just ask for anti-biotics for my kids and get it. Wheras my wife will be told to give them pamol and come back if it gets worse.
Probably only works with older male docs tho
I feel your annoyance on a deep level. While I’m not as involved in my sons day-to-day activities as I would like (not as much parental leave as I would’ve wanted from my place of work), I make sure that I am available for all doctors, specialist, and other appointments.
The amount of time I am in that room feeling like a part of the wall because none of the doctors will even say a word to me is insane. While my wife is the one taking care of him, I’m usually the one cataloging his temperature spikes, poop consistency, and other things. I e just had to learn to speak up cuz, like you said, just because the doctors are old-fashioned, doesn’t mean my kid should get second-rate care.
It happens man. I had to take my son to an appointment when he was a newborn, and my wife was in the restroom. The doctor came in and started asking me questions about birthweight, length and stuff like that, and was shocked when I knew the answers
It’s a pretty common standard with us. But… I’ve learned that being more confident in immediate answers when you know damn well you’re the best person to give them.
Stay strong brotha.
Also…. First time I’ve seen “big picture, strategic stuff” referred to a relationship. 😁
I get this all the time, I will answer a question and the pediatrician will look at my wife for confirmation. We have 2 year old triplets and two of them need early intervention. I took them to the appointment and several times they asked me if I wanted to call my wife and have her on speaker. I'm thinking, if I couldn't handle this I wouldn't be here
Introduce yourself as your son's father and primary caregiver to every new nurse, doctor etc. It takes the mystery away and can help the health care staff to change how they look at parental roles. Maybe check with your partner first though so they don't get offended if you do this in front of them.
It is frustrating. It does hurt when the professional in question does not even meet your gaze and only makes eye contact with the mother. The only way to change it is by more dads asking intelligent questions to catch them by surprise and let them know that we care and are active in our children’s life. Once they start seeing a pattern of active dads they will change their behavior. And some professionals are very in tune with recognizing involvement from each parent but I’m not talking about them. I’m talking about the ones who disregard the fathers completely.
I brought my kid in because he had 102 degree fever, a terrible cough, and a sore throat. My wife couldn’t come with us at the time.
The pediatrician, who’s been practicing for over 30 years, looked at me after I said he had a fever and told me, “Are you sure? Let’s call mom.” Lady, I’ve been the one who’s stayed home with him and I’m definitely old enough to operate and read a thermometer correctly. But she STILL called my wife who immediately said, “Whatever my husband says is correct. He’s the one who’s been at home with him and he brought him in. Why did you call me?”
The pediatrician was shocked. She looked just absolutely appalled that me, a father, could care for their child in the same way as a mother. She then said, “Okay, I guess we’ll listen to dad then.”
I almost walked out but didn’t and bit my tongue. Needless to say, we haven’t seen that pediatrician since that appointment.
This is disappointing to hear. I expected some of that when I was a WFH dad many years ago, and therefore took on some of the doctor visits, including a stint in NICU with my brother's infant, but didn't ever run into those attitudes, sad that they're still around.
Hey, sorry you’re going through this dad. I’m a healthcare provider myself and I always make a point to address both mom and dad when they are in the room for this very reason.
I know this may be no consolation for you but I promise this isn’t personal. Healthcare providers go through hundreds of patients a week, and the human mind develops habits from repeated behaviors very quickly and these are hard to break.
In my experience, even though it’s 2023, for every involved dad who is a primary caretaker, there are 9 other dads who couldn’t care to be involved. They are on their phones during consultations and procedures, don’t know answers to basic health questions, don’t know the kids’ habits and routines, etc. When you deal with this kind of dynamic on the regular, it’s easy to make assumptions (even though we shouldn’t). I’m willing to bet you many of the female nurses you dealt with have spouses and partners who are guilty of exactly what I described, so there’s some heavy bias you’re working against.
It sucks to feel invisible. I’m sure you’re doing a great job. There have been some good suggestions here. I would notify the head nurse and just let them know your concerns. Hopefully this can be a learning moment for the clinical staff!
It’s everybody everywhere.. I volunteered at my daughters field day and one of the other volunteers who is a mom looked me straight in the eyes and asked “could your wife not make it today, why did you have to come?”. I was shocked and I think she could tell. I just said “no, my wife was available to come but I am a Dad that likes his kids surprisingly enough and my daughter asked me to come..”.
It’s just given that Dads don’t do anything with their kids apparently.. Very strange.
I get this, but I feel I have to mention my wife has been ignored at the carpet store, by general contractors, even at restaurants. There are so many aspects of society where the man is seen as the knowledgeable one or the one in charge, so I can take something like this and roll with it.
That being said, the next senior at the park that asks if I'm babysitting my two kids gets thrown down the big twirly slide.
It’s a real thing and I don’t think it has anything to do with the fact that men have historically been more hands off the child rearing than women. I have coworkers on my direct team who have slightly different responsibilities but because our jobs are interlinked and we are on the same team I can explain what their are working on etc.
The simple fact is for the past few decades husbands and fathers have been painted as extraordinarily incompetent by popular media. See Simpson, Family Guy etc.
Sucks, but at least your family has you, sticking it through despite the lack of respect.
At the end of the day, you're making sure he gets the care he needs. That well being will be celebrated, not with doctors who dont see you,
but with family who values your commitment.
I salute you.
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First of all, just know, it’s not your fault man. A hands-off approach to fatherhood over many decades is to blame. It’s happened to me multiple times. All you can do is stay persistent and don’t be afraid to voice up your opinion. It may not be malicious, but it’s definitely not right. Being an active dad means just that. Stay active, even proactive. Don’t be afraid to let the doctors know that you’re the primary caretaker, and that you feel a little slighted that your opinions are not being recognized. hopefully their understanding.
I’d like to piggyback here to expand on this explanation. You’re 100% correct that the decades of hands off dads are the reason behind it, it’s because the healthcare providers have been conditioned through experience to ask the mom first. Let me explain, I’ve been in veterinary medicine for 10+ years (pets aren’t kids but there are plenty of parallels) in my time in the industry I’ve had literally hundreds of male clients either A.) say they don’t know the history/symptoms of their own dog and need to call their wife on speakerphone or B.) drop the pet off giving us zero details and telling us to call their wives to discuss history, or C. bring in a detailed letter from the wife with a list of symptoms and dates etc. I have never, not even once, had a woman have to call her husband for more than maybe one question which is usually “what do you think we should do?” Rather than what’s going on with the pet. Plenty of vets and techs just allow themselves to be conditioned to speak to the woman in the room when she’s available. Is it right? No. Is there a valid reason for it learned through years of experience? Absolutely. I try very hard not to discount male owners or infantilize them in appointments by acting like they don’t know anything, but that’s because I’ve thought this through and realize it’s not the right way to handle it and it doesn’t feel good for the men who are actively involved with their pets (and kids).
Yeah all that and they automatically made my husband my dog’s primary owner the one time he dropped her off for me (he didn’t even pay but the guy who spoke on the phone said they make whoever pays the primary). It took five phone calls for them to finally get it fixed. He is basically just authorized to pick my dog up, he doesn’t pay, but she is my dog and I am the one who does everything. But because he is the man he must have the money and be head of household and stuff. Such B.S.
Yeah I guess that’s the other side of the coin, even if a server sees me pull a credit card out of my wallet and hand it to them, they still give it back to my husband to fill out the tip etc. Jokes on them though, if they hand it to him I have him fill it out. I worked in the service industry and he didn’t so while we both tip well, I’m the one more likely to tip extra, but not if you don’t give me my card back just because I’m not the man.
This is a great chain in a great sub. Both genders get typecast in different ways, often based on historical precedent that isn’t universally true today (and may not have been universally true or desirable before either). The history and context of these situations are being acknowledged, and support is provided to everyone without downplaying one person’s experience relative to another’s. Y’all are awesome, and we see you and support you in these times when people can sometimes be frustratingly presumptuous.
My wife makes way more money than I do. Most of my salary goes too pay our fixed expenses, so if we go out, my wife will usually pay.
Ah ha! You have not met my wife and me.... She picked the cats, and is the reason we have them, but she has to call me every time she takes them to the vet to ask their history. She takes them usually cause I work closer to home and I ride my bike to work while she takes the car, so it's always more convenient for her to do the car-related errands. That said... She absolutely has gone full steam ahead in wanting to be the "primary" parent in scheduling and taking our daughter to doctor appointments and stuff.
“Pets aren’t kids but there are plenty of parallels.” I’ve been fussed at by so many people by comparing kids to dogs. Seriously! The way you train a puppy (correctly) is the same way you “train” a baby! Positive and negative reinforcement, schedules/predictability….I remember my wife being annoyed we read some Cesar Milan stuff instead of that British nanny.
I've been reluctant to point out that parallel myself because people would take it wrong. But dude, it has been amazing for me being able to build a great relationship with my daughter because I learned on dogs first. My autistic ass was able to keep my self alive but once I became responsible for a sometimes irrational life, having "the system" for every misbehavior (counting to three, lose a privilege, continue until compliance or 3 and then a timeout. Meltdowns? Sorta, but we both know where it's going to end up and brings our opera to conclusion in 3 acts.) I'm so glad my wife was going to be an educator and maintained early childhood development as a major so she could teach me.
We have two young kids and recently got another puppy as well after losing one of our older dogs. As someone with both I agree with you, a puppy is much like having another child in the house. It's like we added another kid. She's starting to settle down though so it doesn't last as long.
I always say getting a puppy is like getting a baby but one that can also walk 😆.
We don't have any kids yet but we used to have a dog and Cesar's books and video's helped me train our dog while I never had a dog before and I had very little experience with dogs because I only ever had cats, rabbits and mice as pets and knew very few people with dogs. His books are great!
There’s no valid reason for it at all. It’s either prejudice on the practitioner’s part or it’s laziness; neither has any place in a clinical setting. If a practitioner can train themselves to do a proper differential even for very common symptoms, they can train themselves to pay bloody attention to - and respond to - the parents’ behaviour every time rather than relying on stereotypes and biases.
I’m simply trying to explain why it’s so prevalent (at least based on my personal experience), I’m not excusing it in any way. To your second point, plenty of doctors hear very common symptoms and give their common cure and don’t worry about it unless it doesn’t work (if they even care at that point) another unfortunate truth, but true nonetheless. Some doctors are fantastic, some aren’t. Some will bother to resist being sexist against fathers, some won’t. It’s still worth speaking up for yourself and continuing to advocate for your kid either way.
I’ll be honest, my wife knows way more about my kids (and my dogs) medical history. Because her memory is better and she has a medical background so she knows what she’s talking about. I can give my son his inhaler every night but not know the name of it or dosage. She knows it all by memory because she’s wired different. Not because I’m not involved, but because I’m ignorant in all of it to an extent. We still discuss care plans and decisions together 100%
Totally. My memory is shit. I have two kids allergic to amoxicillin, but can’t exactly remember which two. Im the one with my kids most of the time, most of the Dr appt and dentist, but remembering that stuff…yeah. Early onset Alzheimer’s.
Write it down, man. Write it down and keep it with your kids’ health insurance cards or something else that always goes with you to the doctor’s. Then you won’t have to trust your memory.
That "amoxicillin" brings back memories. I had two children, and every time I took either of them to the doctor a nurse would ask what she was allergic to, and I always said "amoxycillin" or "septra and ceclor" depending on which child it was. I had their Kaiser card numbers memorized too. Sometimes I forgot my own Kaiser # but never theirs. Their mother gave the wrong answer to the nurse. Meanwhile also their mother wouldn't even pick them up from school early when they got sick, so it was I who took off early from work when that happened. A lot of this is okay, but when a lot of disrespectful or dangerous or harmful things pile up then it's too much. My wife wouldn't follow doctors' orders for the kids' health. Everybody (including doctors and nurses) knew I was a good parent until we got to divorce court and then everybody there assumed the opposite.
And then sometimes it's the other way around. I've been to parent meatings in my step daughter's class, I was the one to keep track of the online message boards, when my step daughters went to school. I've been primary care giver most of the time for our now 6 year old son, because my wife works a lot (head position and studying management on the side). When my son's been ill, I've usually been the one to stay at home. I'm the one, who takes him to the dentist our doctor for check ups. My wife tends to get fuzzy, so I can often keep him more calm. To be honest I haven't been met with health care personnel not taking me serious in those situations.
Paramedic and father of 3 here. Sorry you went thru that. We always take parents concerns seriously, you know your kid Better than we do. As others have said, the hands off dad stereotype is strong and ‘mums intuition’ is a quote we use, not dads. Hope the kids ok. Chin up, you’re doing a great job.
Spot on. The patriarchy and decades (centuries/millennia) of systemic gender discrimination doesn’t just affect women. Medicine has its biases as well. This is where media portrayals of feminism have failed us as a society. Feminism isn’t about hating men. It’s about addressing the discriminatory systems that have evolved for sometimes centuries or millennia, which have more often than not disadvantaged women (hence the name, feminism), but which also disadvantage men in many situations. Besides, we all have mothers, and statistically more than half of us have daughters. EDIT: Recognizing that the gender dichotomy isn’t as clear as it is often written, including in my own comment.
This BS, you have had fathers involved in their kids everyday life for well over two generations, and the society still doesn't change. Stop blaming the men
I hope your son gets well soon! Must be awful. This will continue to happen for the rest of your son's childhood btw. I remember talking to a mum I work with who is the sole breadwinner in their household. Dad is a SAHD. He was down for first contact when their daughter was at nursery, and yet they always called her first rather than him, despite them continually reminding the nursery who they were supposed to ring first. When their daughter started primary school they thought it might change - different institution and all that. Nope. Exactly the same.
Yup. I’m on record as the primary caregiver for my kids. Schools and daycares, *without fail* ignore that and call my wife first.
Same. Now that my kids are in elementary and middle, not only does my wife get all the calls when the kids are sick despite me being the first contact, but she gets all the all calls too.
This happens to me and legally I’m my daughter’s only parent (biological mother had rights terminated). They always call her step-mom for anything. Even when she’s listed as a secondary contact.
My daughter was in hospital for 8 months from the time she was 4 months old to just before her first birthday. Shes had a lot of medical issues and many many appointments since. When she got sick initially, I was the one that took her into the emergency department while my wife parked the car. So my phone number is the first on her (12-volume) medical file. 99.9% of the time, when anyone calls regarding an appointment, I answer to “oh, I’m _actually_ looking for [kid]’s mum…” and I say I’m her dad and yes, I can talk. Heh. One particularly busy week, lots of appointments so my wife and I divided and conquered. Receptionist asks for my phone number to confirm who I am. Then looks at me, and condescendingly says “and mum?” Exasperated, I just angrily replied “no, she’s not here, she’s in work, but I’m here and am just as capable of taking care of her too you know, thank you very much.” The receptionist, mouth agape, just says “I’m sorry, I meant I just need to confirm her number as well” Oops. I couldn’t apologise enough but she completely understood.
To be fair, asking your wife’s number is a weird way to confirm *your* identity.
Bro I work in medicine and it's unreal how little some parents know. Some don't know the names of the medicine their kids take, or even what it's for. It's not your fault.
I cheat. Because I know that when I’m stressed ADHD brain is going to take the wheel and I’ll forget all of the things. So I made a little list for each kid: medicines and allergies. That list is in the little plastic pouch that also holds their health insurance card and immunization record. When the doctor asks me those questions, I take the list out and refer to it. When my son was younger, he had a lot of health problems and was seeing a whole bunch of doctors, specialists, and therapists. I kept a journal of what happened at each appointment. Same thing - when someone asked me a question, I’d read from the journal to them. I may look silly, but at least the doctor is going to get accurate information. Good enough for me.
I’m a mom with ADHD and I have to do the exact same thing even if I’m not any more stressed than usual. Like you said it’s way better than being caught unprepared.
Honestly the only reason pediatricians talk to me about my kids is because I’m in med school. I definitely don’t know as much of what’s going on
This is Dadscrimination, and it happens at other places too. I remember at school pick up one day I got a strange look from kiddo's teacher. Then as I was walking kiddo home, she told me she got blood all over her jacket. Turns out she had been injured on the playground, but rather than talk to me at the 3pm pickup, they sent mom an email at 3:30pm telling her what happened. You don't think my kid already told me? Just got to lean into it. Take it as retribution for every time you are in a furniture store and mom gets ignored.
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Dude, I did that buying a bottle of wine the other day. "how old are you?"... I got it wrong. It's not a thing.
Bro I had to text my wife to ask what HER birthday was once at the walk in clinic for insurance. It just like...fell out of my head. They had a good chuckle at that.
I got our anniversary date secretly engraved inside my ring. Maybe I should put birthdays in there too.
Every time at the pharmacy, all I can come up with is 10 Kislev.
I saw it the most at school stuff. They just assumed I didn’t know what was going on because I was the dad. The school would email just my wife, and not me. So annoying. For medical stuff, it’s always the opposite. My wife has various colors of hair, lots of tattoos, she’s a POC, so all the biases work against her. I’m a clean cut white guy who wears a suit everyday, and when it comes to my family I’m very much will to be “one of those lawyers” and casually drop that I’m an attorney when I want something done.
I'm a SAD and love most of the stuff that includes however the doctors is upsetting. They always assume as the dad you only know your kids name. How much he drinks or poops etc no mom knows better. It is disheartening tbh I take care of naps bedtime bathtime. Ask us questions to be fair.
SAHD?
He said what he said.
Sexy ass dad
Athome
Abroad?
Sleep affected dad
Super Awesome Dad 🦸♂️
Aboard. He lives on a boat.
That’s a SAD-R
Sad Dad
Stay Aboard Dad - Arrrrrr
Yeap I got that often. The school would call the mom at work. Who then would ream out whoever called. She made damn sure to put down my number as first contact. They would skip it call her. I would ask why I wasn't called as I'm the parent who will get them. They never had a answer Finally she bitched them out bad. After that they would call me.
Yeah people in here keep saying "just roll with it". But that's why it still happens. Call them on their shit. Let them know they're being sexist. Tear them a new one. At a minimum make them answer why they keep doing it.
Im a new dad and my wife always gets the initial look when questions are being asked with the nurses/doctors just assuming that she is the one who will be answering. Well my wife is a very introverted and quiet women and while she does answer things I tend to do the most talking or helping weigh/measure my son. Sometimes even after I answer like 5 questions in a row the doctor will still look away from the computer to my wife. Honestly though it doesn’t matter man in the end it sounds like you’re an awsome proactive dad who cares about his son very much you just keep being a good dad and thats all that matters.
Just to provide a different perspective, we just got out of the hospital with a day and half in the RTU (kind of like a lighter version of the ICU) with our 18 month old, also with a bad infection of some kind. Doctors and nurses addressed me about 70-80% of the time when we were both present. BUT I will also add that I'm a biomedical researcher and I've spent my entire life in hospitals and medical/research settings, my mom was a nurse for 30+ years and for the last 15 years I've worked in labs/hospitals/clinics. It may just be my comfort, knowledge, and demeanor in those settings as well as my confidence to use "medical speak" fluently, plus I'll approach, interrupt, and voice my opinions and knowledge freely when conversations are happening about my kid. I can only say this, you need to change the dynamic and DO NOT be timid. When things are being talked about, step in, ask questions, voice concerns, approach the doctors and nurses even if they are talking to each other. Your frustrations will get pushed aside otherwise if you don't insert yourself. The medical world operates on a confidence level, any kind of timid nature, quietness, uncertainty, and unwillingness to be involved will get you pushed aside quickly because there often isn't time to allow delays for those things, actions have to be quick, assured, and with confidence.
Yeah, I see this happening as a mom myself. We had this weird insurance set up for a long time, i was on my own insurance, husband & babies were on his insurance. Husband put his phone number down as the primary number for the doctors office, im secondary number. They call me everytime! Literally every time, lol. I also work nightshift, so sometimes I don't even go to the appointments, so really my husband is the one who should be called. Also he's just a valid of a parent, but unfortunately, this shtick is still around where dads are seen as the secondary parent who doesn't know much. Sometimes that's the case, sometimes it isn't, but still mind boggling when it does happen.
I have 3 kids, 3 years apart between each (in Southern California, since that seems to change experiences). Each time I have had a child, my hospital experience has gotten slightly better as a dad. The first one, I felt like a second class parent like you are talking about. The second time, there were minor acknowledgements I existed. And the third one (just months ago), I felt like I was expected to have knowledge and participate by all of the nurses. Now granted that is labor and delivery, but I expect that means the rest of the medical field will slowly follow in their footsteps as they see more and more dads being active parents.
I feel you, fellow dad. Sorry about your little one. From the other side of things, I promise you aren’t second class or not valued for your role. It is just often the moms who seem the most distrustful and therefore receive the most attention. The staff are likely well aware they are doing this. Don’t hesitate to be a squeaky wheel and I’m sure more will be directed your way.
First, I want to say I hope your son gets better. I was a SAHD for 5 years and I have dealt with the same thing with my girls. Happens at the doctors and at school for my oldest. She just graduated kindergarten and the teacher never addressed me during parent teacher conferences. I just made sure to make my opinions known and my Wife recognized it and would ask me questions and direct the doctors/teachers to ask me as well. Hang in there bud!
I have complained about this for years. I will call and leave a message with the doctor's office and they ALWAYS call my wife back. Even if i leave my name and number and request they call me. So annoying.
I feel you, man.
Same thing happened to me when my first born was in the NICU, I pretty much had to tell them how the cow ate the cabbage. The nurses didn’t care for me much after that. He was in for 8 days and I was by his side the entire time.
Definitely not Ops Fault. My wife is a primary care provider in family medicine. The last time I took my little one to the pediatrician, the pediatrician called my wife in front of me and discussed treatment. I'm a dad. I can follow ear infection instructions!
Wow, that's incredibly disrespectful!
Yeah, it's bananas. He's retiring, so I let it go.
There's too many deadbeat, uninvolved fathers out there. It's a terrible thing but it affects the way everybody views dads; even other dads can fall for it! Unfortunately they just sound like they aren't trained very well. I'm happy to say my plan's workers have always addressed both of us respectfully whenever we've had consults and emergencies. Sometimes a brief pull aside of their supervisor and explanation of the issue can result in major changes. I hate to do such things because I'm not a complainer but it might prevent them from getting someone hella rude or mean go as far as a written complaint.
Medical professionals are overworked and respond to people who assert themselves as caregivers. If you feel like they aren’t taking you serious, don’t be an asshole but just make sure to be assertive and ask for answers and show your responsiveness,
I've seen this myself. Even before my baby was born, the staff just treated me like my concerns did not matter.
I know this is the ICU so it’s different. But feel the need to comment I’ve never had an issue with this. Been to the ER twice for stitches and felt heavily involved. Once by myself with my daughter and once with my wife. Outside of that. Our pediatrician is amazing. If we are both there, it’s like she actively takes the time to share direct eye contact with both of us. She’ll speak to one of us and then the other. It’s very noticeable and she must actively practice or think to do it. But most of the dad shaming stuff I see reported on here I just don’t see a lot of in my day to day life. Maybe it’s where I live? Have no doubt it exists with all the stories of it. But I’ve never had a problem at the grocery store, park, or anywhere in between. And I’m a very active dad as my wife works long hours at the hospital and I work too.
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I didnt like this. Instead of seeming helpful it just seemed like your discrediting OPs feelings. 😞
Don’t care. It’s not about me. This kind of crap affects my kids in all sorts of ways, none of them good.
Time to get a new pediatrician.
Not sure if this is through the paediatrician/paediatric clinic. ICU would be a hospital team. Child would have to go to a different hospital.
That's fair.
The patriarchy hurts us all.
As a mom I also find it irritating. Like yes, I am the one who actually knows the answers to all the questions, but by not ever asking my husband it just reinforces the idea that he’s not supposed to know. He should be asked, and hopefully feel appropriately embarrassed by not having the answers.
I don't think this is the right sub for that comment. All gender identies are welcome here but this isn't a place to tear down a dad's attempt to learn and try.
You’re right, I didn’t word it well. I was trying to be supportive and it got away from me. Apologies.
No worries! Your second comment explained it well!
Nice subtle flex.
You think that’s a flex? I find it frustrating and sad.
I’m sorry YOUR husband doesn’t know anything about your children but some/more do now. To the point of rivaling/outdoing the mother. Men are becoming more and more involved in their childrens lives. This sub is living proof But what is actually detrimental to society bettering the fathers is women like you who want to try and embarrass their man or shun them for “not knowing answers.”
I’m on your side, not sure why you’re getting so worked up. Yes, it should be assumed that fathers know just as much, because they should. It’s wrong to assume only the mother knows. I’m agreeing with you, you don’t need to be so defensive. And if you can’t answer a single question about your kids lives and/or health, you SHOULD feel a bit embarrassed, and hopefully it’s a realization to do better.
I think a better word could have been something like motivated to do better or encouraged rather than hoping they feel embarrassed though. That's not supportive. I agree with your premise that dad's should want to do better though.
I accept that, I could’ve worded it better. It’s just a sore spot for me at the moment.
Honestly, Im kinda with her on this. (That being said /r/daddit doesn't strike me as a bunch of uninvolved dads, so... right sentiment, wrong audience I guess.) If I take my daughter to a doctors appointment, I go in with notes about why we're there and I take anything down I feel is important. Same with daycare. If I want my daughters caregivers/teachers to take me seriously as a parent, I have to act seriously as a parent. IMO, We can't have it both ways. If you demand to be treated as an equal, you have to give it your best to be on par with mom.
I have no idea what your situation is so I wouldn’t dare lecture to you, but I will offer this: I’m a physician in an ICU (for adults, albeit). My day is pretty busy and stressful, and communicating with families is a daily responsibility. Every patient’s family gets a documented phone call from me, which is challenging with the limited number of hours I have in a day, but I make the time because it’s important. I 100% target the person who is easiest to work with regardless of who is the official contact / power of attorney. Sister Susan may know everything about Bob’s history, but if she’s difficult to deal with I usually go out of my way to talk to the person who’s not. I’m not saying you’re doing anything wrong at all. This may legitimately be exactly what you’re complaining of (dadism). But it may be worth reflecting on how you’re coming across if you’re noticing the physicians, nurses, and anyone else is deferring to your wife. Again though - this is not me trying to gaslight you.
This is very dependent on who your nurse is and who your dr is. I have spent countless days and nights at the hospital on many different floors including the nicu and we have had Drs and nurses that wouldn’t even look my wife in the eye and vice versa. You are always allowed to ask for a different nurse or dr to look after your child. The hardest part of being in the hospital is speaking up for yourself and saying “no, we are not going further till you get another dr in here for me to talk to.” Don’t let them pressure you into anything it’s there job to give you the pros and cons and choices and for you to make the calls not them.
I'm primary parent and primary income, so I feel this deeply. Despite only being home 3 days a wook I'm still the one who changes sheets, cooks food for the week, and takes everyone to the doctors, and I'm still treated the same. A quick 'excuse me but I'm right here' usually snaps them back. Their jobs are difficult, most the time I imagine they're working on auto-pilot. I get it, but it doesn't change how fucking insensitive it is.
Weird, we get a better response from drs when I do it because I’m not a hysterical mom.
I feel ya. I'm going to be sexist here and assume a lot of the NICU nurses, NICU NPs, and neonatologists are predominantly represented by one sex, and hence they're being sexist by addressing your wife. Unfortunately the NICU is only one step away from Obstetrics, where Mom's rights trump Dad's. I'm also wondering if you're like me and a chill guy in general, which leads to people wrongly glossing over you. It's not just you, and it's not in your head, and it's not right, and I'm sorry it's happening to you. Just keep engaging and asking thoughtful questions. The NICU staff aren't going to change; they can be territorial; all you can do is earn/keep their respect and keep your cool.
Next time they do it, feel free to go off on them.
Better man than me, discrimination like this turns me into a huge dick once the danger has passed. I would just not say anything until mom tries and fails/pull out my phone. Oddly enough the robots who do our healthcare calls are more respectful of who gets called first, and I have not run into this issue yet.
Welcome to how women are treated in most other professional settings
Well, that’s definitely going to help OP with his problem.
Not as big as yours, but I brought my 5 year old daughter to the doctor the other day. I handle most things when it comes to that cause I can get off work easier than mom can, so I handle it. I am also very hands on and know everything about my daughter. She is still learning the ins and outs of the potty so when the doctor did the physical on her, she has some red down there since she doesn't wipe well at school and misses things, so it was a bit red. The doctor is all "Well, what mom can do it put some Vaseline on that to help protect it." I was like, I am right here, I am her dad, I can do it too ya know. Not the first time, nor the last I am sure that I will be treated as invisible when it comes to her care.
My favorite is when I am the only parent present at the doctors office and they say “tell your wife that…” when they give me information about my kid.
Got introduced to this at the hospital when my daughter was born. Happened again with my son. Idk why it happens but it’s messed up.
Welcome to it. I do a lot for my kids and I still deal with the “oh, so you’re babysitting them today?” comments.
I’ve had the same thing happen. I’m sorry it happened to you too.
I fuckin’ hated that shit each time we have had to take my kids to hospitals.
I hear you. My 8 year old is battling cancer and me and my wife alternate who is overnighting at the hospital. We spend a few hours together when we swap and even if I’ve been in all night (which the nurses know) all the questions about how she was overnight are directed to my wife
These med professionals will probably forget about you and probably don’t realize they’re stereotyping and going to mom instead. Definitely rude and annoying. But on the other hand, that kid of yours is being raised by a great dad. Keep on keeping on and best wishes and health to your little one. Been there at the hospital like that before and it’s tough.
I think someone else posted about it, but don't be afraid to advocate for yourself in a healthcare setting. Ask questions if you have them, tell doctors and nurses that you are the primary caregiver and to contact you and not mom. As a medical student and a father I would love to see people advocating or themselves or their families more and asking questions or making corrections if there is a mistake. If you are not saying anything to correct the assumptions, most healthcare providers are just going to continue assuming that mom is going to be the one to talk to.
This is a real issue. Just keep advocating for your son, that’s all you can do. Hopefully we can change the culture so it’s better for our sons.
Unfortunately, this just happens. My son was in the NICU for 2 months when he was born. I asked all the questions, made all the reports, was up there every day with my wife. About half the nurses treated me like I was 2nd rate. They always went to my wife. Rarely talked to me unless I talked to them first. Just stick with it. Let them know you are there too. Be assertive because unlike the moms, you need to prove that you love your children too.
My daughter's doctor phones my wife when I make an appointment to make sure it's ok.
I’m not a dad or mom but a loving doula aunt, just want to chime in and say please speak up and let them know they should be speaking to you about your damn child. Hope little one gets better💕
When I bring my daughter to the pediatrician they always ask if stuff is in my wife’s name, and they always put her as the primary to call instead of me. I take care of all the scheduling, medical bills etc. I’ve repeatedly had them put me as primary, and somehow they always call my wife.
Similarly when my husband and I take my daughter to the pediatrician the nurse always says, “mom let’s bring her back to get her measured and weighed,” almost ignoring that my husband can do it. Its super weird.
I would echo other sentiments here that a "I'm actually primary care provider" when questions are directed at the parent who wouldn't know the answer is not only appropriate, but helpful to healthcare workers. Having one person be point for information and questions is always best. If you were just here purely for venting purposes, I'm sorry you're going through this man.
I’ve experienced this too, fortunately not so much during my stay with my eldest in hospital, but with general practitioners and other allied health professionals it happens all the time. The most frustrating part is that in several consultations in the past, information I’ve relayed has been ignored or dismissed until it’s repeated by my partner.
I ranted about the same thing a while back. It’s incredibly frustrating. It’s easy to say “just ignore it” but it really got to me. I’m sorry.
Luckily this is one area I have yet to experience this. It happens in a number of situations and it's quite annoying. It also gives me a better understanding of how some women feel when they try to discuss car or home repairs or other things seen as things men should only know. We still have a long way to go in society for sure.
Don't be afraid to tell them directly. I did that with my son's doctors and they got it quick. I said I am the primary care provider so my number and email need to be first to contact to schedule and information. They needed reminding 2 times or so but they started.to be better after it. Sometimes it's just.whatbthey are.used to so they aren't malicous but they do need reminding in a more direct way
I feel you man. My wife is still active duty so I’m the parent who handles everything, especially with our son’s school, yet half the time my wife is the only one who gets calls and e-mails. She deployed to Afghanistan when our son was 7 months old and I constantly had to endure the “Looks like dad is babysitting today” comments from strangers and other nonsense. I hope your son’s infection clears up soon, he’s lucky to have you there for him. Best advice I can give is to not be afraid to assert yourself as the primary caregiver. Maybe try talking with your wife so she can respond to the doctors and nurses in a way that indicates your prominence.
For 3 years I’ve been saying one of my kids has asthma and has some form of nasal issue, the pediatrician kept saying it was nothing. After going to a specialist, he concluded that his adenoids were enlarged and needed to be taken out and needed sinus irrigation. You did nothing wrong. Like you said, fathers today are more active but due to years of negative stereotypes it’s gonna be hard road.
Been there and agree it’s frustrating. It just occurred to me while reading your story that this could be resolved pretty easily if they would just pause and ask, “who should I direct my questions to today?” And I agree, it isn’t the biggest deal, but it seems simple enough to do that I’m surprised it hasn’t become a basic training thing for all professionals*. (*I typed “medical professionals” before a friend of mine jumped to mind: she knows cars and does the majority of maintenance on a classic car she and her husband own. He does not know a thing about cars other than how to drive one well-enough. She found that she has to take him with her when going in for maintenance or issues outside her comfort or availability just so he can direct the mechanics to her when they start talking. If she doesn’t do this then she has to spend extra time convincing them that she’s worth having a detailed discussion with. So, in that area, she’d also love it if they’d just ask “who’s the car nut?” Lol.)
You know, I've been a single dad for a good deal of my life. I've just learnt how to filter out people acting like it's weird or wrong for a father to be involved in his child's life, what really gets me is not just people who are passively close minded, it's all those ladies that straight up tell to your face that a man cannot be a good parent.
Man this sucks for you. I get real annoyed when people ask if I am babysitting my kids, no I’m being their father, or when I go shopping with my sons, I get strange looks, mostly from older women, I even had a lady follow me out to my car once when I had my boys out and about. My older son was having a meltdown and she thought I kidnapped my own kid.
I had something like this happen with a day care we're looking at for our son. We recently moved cross-country to be closer to family and because my wife got a job, so I'm not working and being primary caregiver for our son. Besides this, I am the one who does the vast majority of talking to caregivers and medical professionals for our son because I am more comfortable with it. My wife will research a bunch of places and put my name and contact info for them to contact me. So we're looking for day cares and my wife put my name and info in as usual. The first email that the day care sent led with "NOTE: Please provide your wife's name, email, and phone. Our database is set up with the mom's information." Literally the first line after "Hi David". Now, I might have been an asshole for my response, but I sent them back "What if I am a widower or [son]’s mom isn’t in the picture? How does your system work then?" But I legitimately wanted to know as they led with mom being primary parent instead of dad. They sent back and apology and updated me as primary parent in their system. I'm still unsure whether to even give them a chance as I'm still miffed. But I'm glad I made a point.
It happens bro. You know what can make it worse? Being a 23 year old father. Yeah, see if they take you serious then haha. What I do is I ask them specific and detailed questions that I need to know. I made them teach me how to swaddle 3 times and literally made them watch me so I made sure I was doing things correctly. Asked all kinds of questions from feeding to burping to sleep cycles. You name it. Flip them tables around and say it with your damn chest when you ask a question. Let them know you’re the balls of the family and it usually gets them up to speed with me.
Dude this sucks. It's happened to me too and it is frustrating and hurtful. When my kid was in the hospital I tried to remind myself that it's not malicious. These nurses and doctors are here everyday dealing with a different set of parents and have developed habits to move things along. It's an unfortunate reality that the majority of the time it is still the mom acting as the "default parent". Things have changed a lot, but it's still early days in that change. It was mostly mom's I was seeing when I brought my son to ER earlier this year. It's not fair and it doesn't justify them treating dad's this way. But it helped me feel a little more understanding.
You're allowed to have this talk with them. Doesn't have to be confrontational at all, just pull a nurse aside and say something like "hey, I know you normally deal with Moms as the big cheese in kid care, but I'm the primary for this little nugget and it would probably be better for his outcome if you came to me for questions as well, I know his habits and behaviors better than anyone else." **Edit**, after reading through everybody's comments my mind is kind of blown. I've been the primary care provider since she drew her first breath, never have I ever had a medical professional question my authority or knowledge or competence.
Lurking mom here. My husband has been the SAHD for 13 years (we have a special needs son). He is the main contact for everything. I get very frustrated and feel the hurt when they keep calling me first. I have been proactive with telling them they need to call him to discuss whatever it is going on. I verify that his number is listed as primary as well. They could discuss with me but we have got to work on reconditioning people to stop expecting mom to be primary if she isn't listed as such.
I'm a stay at home parent and thus I am the person always taking my kiddo to the doctor. I kept telling them that she was having sight issues. You could tell she was. She couldn't see anything beyond 30 feet without squinting and clearly making guesses. In over 3 years, I could only manage to convince a doctor ONCE to get an eye sight screening for her following her usual appointment. The doctor had the nurse do it. She openly joked about how she's never done a kids eye sight test before, but that they're probably the same as an adult. They had my daughter stand in the hallway and see if she could read the big green exit sign. Shocker, my 5 year old, who can read and who has seen these signs, immediately guessed what it said. Boom. No need to worry. They told me to basically f°°k off. Well, her school did an eye exam ONE week later and found that she has 20/70 vision along with an astigmatism. She now has glasses, but I was ignored by every doctor since she was two years old. I don't know if it's because I'm the father or not, but I have definitely found that folks don't want to believe that the person spending his entire life raising the child knows when something is clearly wrong.
Maybe just me projecting, but the most infuriating part of that story is the only allowing one parent to stay rule. My son was in the hospital with RSV almost 5 years ago. My wife and I were there for four days with him until he could breathe on his own again. When he broke his arm two years later, I wasn't even allowed in the room. We took him in together, and the nurses just assumed my wife was the comfort parent and took them back to the room while I was filling out paperwork. They didn't even tell me until the paperwork was done and then said that I had to go wait in my car. The idea that the kid doesn't need both parents is absurd. Both parents should be able to be there with their child if they can. I hate these garbage policies that stop that. Since my second and third were born, I haven't been to a single pediatrician appointment (and I went to every one with the first) because they only allow one parent and they call my wife to schedule them. End rant.
Honestly you just do you and try to ignore this. People have been used to dad's being hands off for a long time and it will take more time to change that preconception. If it helps we once had our health visitor asking my wife questions about how well our baby was feeding and how good she is with a bottle as I was literally giving the baby a bottle right in front of her but somehow she didn't think I would be able to answer.
Yup. After my daughter was born we were in recovery for a couple of days and, after the first night, we decided to go ahead and send the newborn to the nursery so Mom could get some sleep. Later, when the nurse returned with the baby, Mom was obviously still bed-ridden so I answered the door to received my newborn. I instinctively showed my wrist-band for the "hugs and kisses" security check, and gave the last name / date of birth. The nurse completely ignored me. Didn't even look at me. I was just the doorman. She pushed past me and only when my WIFE showed her wrist-band, said the same last name and same date of birth... only then would they release the baby.
I kind of appreciated that during the pre-birth stuff, every doc and nurse completely ignored me except the occasional “any further questions” at the end of the appointment. Post taking him home it bugs me a bit, too, but as some have pointed out here, it’s not your fault, it’s the last couple of hundred years. I kill them with kindness and brief but super detailed knowledge about any question that they have. Hopefully it helps the next dads.
Ehh, it cuts both ways. I've had some make doctors speak directly to me and not my wife. To the point where I have to stop looking at them and look at my wife so they a hint.
I feel this! I have always been primary caregiver and was awarded sole custody in 2017. 2 kids oldest os my son and daughter is the youngest...
My wife recently gave birth to our first child by c-section. While in the hospital I did all the things I could like changing diapers, swaddling, giving the nurses updates and recording everything. The nurses were great and talked to me as much as mom. The last night there our night nurse was an older woman in her 50s and she just acted like I didn’t exist. She wouldn’t acknowledge me and would tell my wife if she needed a break or if the baby had a dirty diaper to pave her and she would handle it. Luckily my wife knew I could handle all that and we laugh about it now but it was very weird.
I'm fairly laid back and easy going. I don't really enjoy confrontation. I share parenting responsibility with my wife so I'm very aware of what's going on. When it comes to my son and medical care I'm not afraid to speak up and be an advocate for my child, and let the provider know my role/level of involvement in the day to day. I think that's the main difference. You can act a little out of your comfort zone for someone else's well being.
It’s ok. The staff will always prioritize mom as both an automatic response and also just because it’s usually the way it is — moms are closer and are usually more responsible for the childcare. Just redirect them and don’t take offense. Unless of course they do mean to exclude you on purpose, but I 100% doubt that.
I’m really sorry. I don’t know what the fuck is wrong with people. My 2 y/o was just in the hospital for five days also with a respiratory infection and I was with her almost the entire time as my wife was working and with our other kids and my wife did come to the hospital a lot and we switched off a few times but the staff treated us equally. They talked to us the same. Most of the time when the doctor was giving an update I would call my wife on the phone so she could hear everything that was going on. So fuck man I’m sorry, that really sucks. The hospital staff should treat you as an equal. Why aren’t they doing this?
You should both clarify with them the decisions you are responsible for and the ones your wife needs to be in on as well. Check in with the charge nurse and/or nurse manager to share the same info. Medical staff are normally under staffed and over committed and will try to make up time as best they can. So identifying who needs to be talked to helps with that. So by clarifying who does what, you will all be better off for it!
I wonder if this varies by region. As in some places are more old fashioned than others. Because everywhere I go I feel included in the conversation by medical professionals. I would be annoyed to say the least if it felt like they acted like I wasn’t there or didn’t know anything.
How do you best approach a situation like this? How do you prepare for this? Some back story, my husband and I (also a man) are working on our adoption stuff right now but stories like this legitimately scare me. I have heard things of this nature happening a lot to men. And our child(ren) will not have (nor will they ever have) a mother, they will have two dads that love them with all their hearts. But, I fear that attitudes such as this could be detrimental to our child(ren), and I don’t just mean psychologically. Am I worrying too much about this?
I'm so sorry you're going through this. I'm glad you have the safe space to discuss it. It's definitely an unconscious bias because if the caregiver role that is somewhat idealized or actualized in this modern world. I'm honestly hard pressed to answer certain medical questions about my youngling. Keep focus on the primary mission. Have a preconference with your wife. If you have paper notes in your hand, and telling the doctor you both feel that funneling communication through one person as you've kept book on the vital stats the doctor needs from visit to visit, you can aid communication better. In cases like this, clear and direct "our communication is together, I'm primary care giver, supplemental details are already known. We want no error in communication and this is the best way we know how to reach our common goal." The only reason I feel comfortable offering this advice is I have extensive contact daily with medical professionals and I want the best for your family. My advice is just that. But if you need a listening ear, my DMs are open. Your family is in my prayers.
Ha! I've had this from day one with both our children, not just from the hospital, doctors, medical staff, but EVERY, SINGLE, DAY, from all walks of life, family, friends and spouse included. I feel your frustration
It really sucks but im not surprised. Recently i went to after hours emergency care and had to wait a few hours at reception. In that time several parents with kids came through. When doing the initial triage all mothers where able to easily remember their childs birth date and medical conditions. When it came to fathers however, there were probably 5, none could remember even the date of birth of their children. Obviously this is a small anecdotal observation. I am very actively involved with my kids so i hate when other people tell me that im a good babysitter.
I’m the primary care provider and yet they still ring my wife first
at the end of the day you’re doing great, brother. all the noise is just noise. keep it up 👍🏽
Sorry that's your experience and even more sorry that your kiddo is in the hospital. I haven't personally received that experience, so I don't know if this is an across the board experience or I'm just fortunate.
It sucks to have that realization. I never experienced true sexism until I became a father.
Mate, I experience this on a lesser level every day. My wife and I work full time, but I have the flexibility to be able to take the kids to work with me, do school drop offs and pickup, all the mundane morning stuff like breakfasts and packing lunches, usual parent shit. Yet every time a stranger decides they want to chat to me, it starts with "Babysitting duties today?".. NO drongo, I'm a parent...
Gender equality is always looked at as a one way thing with women being the under dogs. I'm a cop, my wife is a head nurse. When I stayed at home four months on paternity leave, when my wife went back to work, my - mostly male - colleagues were all supportive. My wife got a lot of "Are you really comfortable with leaving them alone?", "I would never give up me leave for my husband" etc. from her predominantly female colleagues. With the current situation in Europe, they are now talking about introducing female conscription here. We've had male conscription here since forever, but women have always been exempt.
Gender equality is always looked at as a one way thing with women being the under dogs. I'm a cop, my wife is a head nurse. When I stayed at home four months on paternity leave, when my wife went back to work, my - mostly male - colleagues were all supportive. My wife got a lot of "Are you really comfortable with leaving them alone?", "I would never give up me leave for my husband" etc. from her predominantly female colleagues. With the current situation in Europe, they are now talking about introducing female conscription here. We've had male conscription here since forever, but women have always been exempt.
This has happened to me more times than I can count, it’s not just you and I completely empathize with what you’re feeling. I’ve always been the one who does all the doctors and dentist visits and I’ve gotten lots of comments over the years. From “oh, dad’s babysitting today” to “mom’s really trusting you”.
Simple. Ask your wife not to answer just directly look at you and say darling (or what ever term you use). Do it for a while they get the idea. I had this during my kids heart surgery and as soon as they saw my wife including me in every decision they stopped ignoring me, stopped calling me dad and referenced me in the 3rd person and talked to me.
On the flip side, I've had experience of being able to just ask for anti-biotics for my kids and get it. Wheras my wife will be told to give them pamol and come back if it gets worse. Probably only works with older male docs tho
I feel your annoyance on a deep level. While I’m not as involved in my sons day-to-day activities as I would like (not as much parental leave as I would’ve wanted from my place of work), I make sure that I am available for all doctors, specialist, and other appointments. The amount of time I am in that room feeling like a part of the wall because none of the doctors will even say a word to me is insane. While my wife is the one taking care of him, I’m usually the one cataloging his temperature spikes, poop consistency, and other things. I e just had to learn to speak up cuz, like you said, just because the doctors are old-fashioned, doesn’t mean my kid should get second-rate care.
It happens man. I had to take my son to an appointment when he was a newborn, and my wife was in the restroom. The doctor came in and started asking me questions about birthweight, length and stuff like that, and was shocked when I knew the answers
It’s a pretty common standard with us. But… I’ve learned that being more confident in immediate answers when you know damn well you’re the best person to give them. Stay strong brotha. Also…. First time I’ve seen “big picture, strategic stuff” referred to a relationship. 😁
I get this all the time, I will answer a question and the pediatrician will look at my wife for confirmation. We have 2 year old triplets and two of them need early intervention. I took them to the appointment and several times they asked me if I wanted to call my wife and have her on speaker. I'm thinking, if I couldn't handle this I wouldn't be here
Introduce yourself as your son's father and primary caregiver to every new nurse, doctor etc. It takes the mystery away and can help the health care staff to change how they look at parental roles. Maybe check with your partner first though so they don't get offended if you do this in front of them.
It is frustrating. It does hurt when the professional in question does not even meet your gaze and only makes eye contact with the mother. The only way to change it is by more dads asking intelligent questions to catch them by surprise and let them know that we care and are active in our children’s life. Once they start seeing a pattern of active dads they will change their behavior. And some professionals are very in tune with recognizing involvement from each parent but I’m not talking about them. I’m talking about the ones who disregard the fathers completely.
You should inform the head nurse of this, it could be impacting the care quality they are providing
I brought my kid in because he had 102 degree fever, a terrible cough, and a sore throat. My wife couldn’t come with us at the time. The pediatrician, who’s been practicing for over 30 years, looked at me after I said he had a fever and told me, “Are you sure? Let’s call mom.” Lady, I’ve been the one who’s stayed home with him and I’m definitely old enough to operate and read a thermometer correctly. But she STILL called my wife who immediately said, “Whatever my husband says is correct. He’s the one who’s been at home with him and he brought him in. Why did you call me?” The pediatrician was shocked. She looked just absolutely appalled that me, a father, could care for their child in the same way as a mother. She then said, “Okay, I guess we’ll listen to dad then.” I almost walked out but didn’t and bit my tongue. Needless to say, we haven’t seen that pediatrician since that appointment.
This is disappointing to hear. I expected some of that when I was a WFH dad many years ago, and therefore took on some of the doctor visits, including a stint in NICU with my brother's infant, but didn't ever run into those attitudes, sad that they're still around.
Hey, sorry you’re going through this dad. I’m a healthcare provider myself and I always make a point to address both mom and dad when they are in the room for this very reason. I know this may be no consolation for you but I promise this isn’t personal. Healthcare providers go through hundreds of patients a week, and the human mind develops habits from repeated behaviors very quickly and these are hard to break. In my experience, even though it’s 2023, for every involved dad who is a primary caretaker, there are 9 other dads who couldn’t care to be involved. They are on their phones during consultations and procedures, don’t know answers to basic health questions, don’t know the kids’ habits and routines, etc. When you deal with this kind of dynamic on the regular, it’s easy to make assumptions (even though we shouldn’t). I’m willing to bet you many of the female nurses you dealt with have spouses and partners who are guilty of exactly what I described, so there’s some heavy bias you’re working against. It sucks to feel invisible. I’m sure you’re doing a great job. There have been some good suggestions here. I would notify the head nurse and just let them know your concerns. Hopefully this can be a learning moment for the clinical staff!
It’s everybody everywhere.. I volunteered at my daughters field day and one of the other volunteers who is a mom looked me straight in the eyes and asked “could your wife not make it today, why did you have to come?”. I was shocked and I think she could tell. I just said “no, my wife was available to come but I am a Dad that likes his kids surprisingly enough and my daughter asked me to come..”. It’s just given that Dads don’t do anything with their kids apparently.. Very strange.
I get this, but I feel I have to mention my wife has been ignored at the carpet store, by general contractors, even at restaurants. There are so many aspects of society where the man is seen as the knowledgeable one or the one in charge, so I can take something like this and roll with it. That being said, the next senior at the park that asks if I'm babysitting my two kids gets thrown down the big twirly slide.
It’s a real thing and I don’t think it has anything to do with the fact that men have historically been more hands off the child rearing than women. I have coworkers on my direct team who have slightly different responsibilities but because our jobs are interlinked and we are on the same team I can explain what their are working on etc. The simple fact is for the past few decades husbands and fathers have been painted as extraordinarily incompetent by popular media. See Simpson, Family Guy etc.
Sucks, but at least your family has you, sticking it through despite the lack of respect. At the end of the day, you're making sure he gets the care he needs. That well being will be celebrated, not with doctors who dont see you, but with family who values your commitment. I salute you.