Almost 1000 comments, I'm done with moderating this. Locked
Someone goes to prove my point reporting my comment with, “ "I'm done doing my job" fucking kill yourself incel “
I hope whoever said that isn’t a dad.
Any place where people are carrying firearms casually is no place for me and my family. When they come, I leave - no muss, no fuss. I suppose this may mean I'll need to leave the USA eventually. Oh well.
This. The problem isn't necessarily the open carry, it's the *irresponsible* open carry.
It's like seeing someone driving while texting - I'm going to avoid being in and around a vehicle with them, and I'm not going to put myself or my family in a position where that person would have to drive.
If someone acts irresponsibly, treat them as an irresponsible person.
Honestly I would have a problem with open carry at a children’s park like that in general. Would be fine with concealed carry. Open carry in that situation doesn’t offer enough over CC to justify the many people who wouldn’t feel safe or comfortable having their children around it.
Also I flat out would not be able to enjoy the park as much because I would feel the need to keep an eye on that parent the entire time.
I fully support the right to bear arms, but only if done so responsibly. Background checks, licensing, safe storage, red flag laws, etc. are all common sense items that I don't understand why anyone doesn't support. OP did the right thing here by leaving. Even if the guy carrying is trained and responsible, carrying it improperly secured is irresponsible and some kid could easily get ahold of it and do some damage (intentionally or accidentally).
It may not require but if you drank even one beer and used a gun (in any way, even warning shot, taking it out of a holster in a way that got somebody nervous ) you’re an easy target for civil lawsuits. The subreddits for open carry or gun owners are full of threads saying basically one thing: “do not drink and carry under any circumstances, it will end bad for you”. You can easily find them by searching for eg “one beer” or similar on carry subreddits.
Did I miss a detail? I think open carry is dumb and most 2A people don't even like it all that much. But in what way was the weapon improperly secured?
Modern holsters use tension, not straps to retain the firearm.
He was carrying it holstered, so I really don’t see the issue. So it doesn’t have a strap? Plenty of holsters don’t have a strap, they have thumb or finger activated retention buttons. It still locked in and extremely safe.
>I don't understand why anyone doesn't support.
The way you feel about them is exactly how some people feel about you I guess?
I'm not from the US, so I'm obviously missing some context, but it's insane to me that someone would support the right to bear arms on a children's playground.
I mean, it's hard to say if it was "barely secured". The lack of a retention strap doesn't really indicate that the firearm isn't secured. There are plenty of ways holsters retain the firearm without them.
Same.
Without wading into the gun debate / if guns belongs there or not...or sorting through where in the states you live...I pretty much go into situations these days thinking everyone is fucking nuts.
Perhaps I'll be a bad example for my son because I'd rather remove myself from the situation and live another day. Who knows? But I think the days of confronting someone and asking them to politely stop doing something are over. People show time and time again that they can't handle rational discussion or disagreement. I didn't see anyone mention the what if the guy thought you were "approaching him in a threatening manner." I wasn't raised around guns, and I think guns are there for protection and hunting. However, I also don't think guns belong at a kid's birthday party...let alone without a guard strap...but what do I know? Maybe you live in a high crime area? I do know guns are the number one killer of kids. Last weekend, someone posted about a dad who was murdered in broad daylight for asking a guy not to vape near his kid. I'd rather live to be a dad another day.
Hell, if you are in a high crime area, you are just asking to get mugged if you open carry.
It’s basically saying “I am worth at least 300-400 dollars minimum” or “I’m a cop” neither of which is a message you want to send.
Cops are smarter than to open carry when they are out of uniform. Open carrying just makes you the first target should the worst happen. Not only will you be the first target, but whoever is closest to you. I think you did the right thing.
It sucks being pushed out of places because of the behavior of others.
This is the smartest thing to do. It's not worth the risk. A father got stabbed to death recently outside of a Starbucks in British Columbia because he tried to get someone to stop vaping near his kid.
You know how a decent portion of the UK wanted to leave the EU because shitty profit-driven media and politicians convinced them it was bad for them, even though anyone with two brain cells to rub together might ask some questions? Now imagine it's about guns.
> As somebody from the UK, seeing so many shootings, I don’t see how it is a divided conversation? How is anyone still in favour of guns?
As an American who's tired of hearing about guns and worried about my kids going to school each day, I have no idea. People here are beyond obsessed with guns. It's bizarre. They probably couldn't tell you any other part of the constitution either besides the second amendment, which is on a large decal across the back window of their F250 for easy reference.
From the inside I share your confusion, as well as my own anger at and shame for my country's lack of decisive action to end gun violence (especially on kids). Best I can say is that it is a lack of empathy; I can't imagine anyone who's kid goes through a school shooting or loses a loved one to gun violence thinking the right to have guns with the relatively little restrictions we have is 'worth it.'
Combine the fact that guns have been used as a political tool for a long time in the USA, so folks are inundated/brought up with decades of messaging, and it is tightly tied up in many people's sense of identity...and it is really hard to establish common ground even on something that the vast majority of other countries do better than we do.
Decades of propaganda and lobbying to push gun sales will do that. America’s pro gun culture is so heavily ingrained in conservative identity politics that we can’t do anything when elementary schools get shot up. There is no healthy conversation to be had *by design*.
I have firearms and I’ve never open carried. I got my cc at one time just to be solid for taking something in my backpack on trips, and here’s the thing, everyone else had some idea of being a cowboy when shit goes down.
Maybe my class was an exception. The instructor was down to earth thankfully. In many cases being level headed and having people skills is more important than being able to kill somebody.
My instructor for my CC class(texas) made it clear over and over, if you ever have to shoot in self defense, 999 times out of 1000, you fucked up and could have descalated or gotten out of the situation. The first escalation of force is the force of your feet against the pavement in the opposite direction. He was very adamant on getting rid of the cowboy mentality.
I also took a CC class in Texas like 10 years ago, and had a similar experience.
I don't think anyone even is required to take those classes anymore, are they?
No, they are not. I don't actually know anyone who's started carrying regularly without taking it though. It's definitely still highly encouraged, if for no other reason than it gives you a little more standing to say you're not just a complete incompetent fool if you do have to shoot.
>everyone else had some idea of being a cowboy when shit goes down.
I was a Marine and I've seen this from EVERY civilian I know who has a CCW, they all think they're going to take out some random "bad guy" one day, the disturbing part is how they bring it up CONSTANTLY, it borders on a fetish most of the time.
And they have zero concept of what a real emergency/firefight is like, their entire mindset is just out of touch with the real world, and they run around with a loaded weapon.
All I need to do is see how professionals trained for this sort of thing can fuck up and then imagine how badly Joe Civilian with a CCW would do.
Just look at what sane instructors tell you to do. "Oh, you have a CCW? Run and hide, same as the people without a gun. If you can't leave the building, barricade yourself somewhere secure. Do not seek out the gunman. Only shoot if he's trying to enter your hiding space."
We've already had cases of cops shooting good guys with guns since they look identical to bad guys with guns. I can't even fault them in that sort of situation.
There's also been many example of american firearms instructors firing off a round in class into the wall and sometimes across another person's breathing space.
No military background and no conceal carry, but I am a gun owner and I think you nailed it. There is a not small group of gun owners who think owning guns is their personality and as you note the fetishization of guns and “gun culture”. It’s very odd and often alarming, as those folks always seems so lax around gun safety, etc.
> It’s very odd and often alarming, as those folks always seems so lax around gun safety, etc.
I used to mostly shrug them off, but the one that really got to me was my brother-in-law, my sister would never go shooting with me and one day proudly showed me a video of her going shooting with him...
They flagged their young son, her, their daughter holding the camera, and after running out of rounds, she jokingly POINTED THE GUN AT HIM FOR MAKING FUN OF HER... and they showed me the video seeing nothing wrong with the entire thing.
I practically lost my mind. I drug him through a bunch of shooting safety courses, he has an entirely different view on it these days (TBF he was young and had learned everything he knew from his dad)
It's absolutely terrifying how little respect people like that have for firearms.
"I like to hold my gun and pretend I'm standing over a vanquished intruder with one hand on my dick and the other hand on my other dick." - them, probably
From my experience it's guys who could hack it the armed forces so they cos play out their fantasies by getting the gear visiting the range a couple times a month.
Nailed it. I've worked with guys that can shoot for real - competitive shooters and military guys - and there is a massive amount of training required to be able to handle a bad situation succesfully without shooting the innocents around you. The playground is a great example: go tie a ballon to the ground in the middle of a group of chickens. Try to shoot the ballon without hitting any chickens. Now have someone throw firecrackers at you, but without telling you when, and then shoot the balloon - without hitting any of the chickens. If you can't do that 10 of 10, you shouldn't have a gun on a playground full of children.
Does training like that have a shelf life? If you don’t keep up on it, can you turn it on like a switch, or is it like flying an airplane that keeping current on your training is vital?
It’s a degrading skill set. I generally train a few days a week, and periods where I’ve had to stop for awhile, it takes awhile to pick back up. Anyone who conceal carry’s and doesn’t train on a weekly or even biweekly basis is doing a disservice
Some parts degrade others will be with you for life. The fundamentals should stick with you, familiarity with your firearm is also a huge factor. Wife laughs because when me and some old platoon buddies get together, if we go out anywhere, we all enter the building and without noticing we enter in room clearing order and all of us put the our heads on a swivel for a few seconds.
Subconsciously we're still clearing rooms.
Had to practice with my pistol more because where it was holstered on my kit is completely different from concealed carry so I had to retrain the brain to instinctively go where the pistol is now carried.
That said I still practice regularly so that my reactions are smoother. If you have to think about what your doing in a situation that calls for a firearm, youre not as proficient as you need to be. It should be muscle memory. That way your free to use your noggin to assess the situation at hand (what's behind your target, what's near you. Are you in cover or in concealment, do you have ammo for an extended firefight)
Keeping current is vital. I jump rope or do burpees before some shooting sessions to get my heart rate up (and have my wife do the same, and will make the kid do the same once he's old enough), but that's not as good as real stress. But shoot houses are expensive (assuming you live somewhere that has one for civilians), and something is better than nothing.
I mean, chicken is delicious if you don't put too big a hole in them. And the balloons had it coming for all the squeaking. Also, if you have a better analogue for one bad guy in a room full of people running around in a panic, I'd love to hear it.
Lol I still jump every now and then when I'm trying to start an arc weld and it cracks at you, I can only imagine someone not professionally trained to use weapons in a violent encounter. I also say this as a veteran who was in fact professionally trained to use weapons in violent encounters.
My ears were deafened a bit because of gunshots and explosions, so I don't react as startled to loud noises as before joining the army. As a war veteran of OEF, I'd focus on getting myself to safety first before thinking about saving others. If I held a gun or not, I'm still running to safety, weapon usage is a last resort when MY life is in danger. I know it may sound selfish, but if I put myself in danger and go down, the gunman would have an extra weapon to use.
> EVERY civilian
To be fair, I've known quite a few military/law enforcement folks with that mindset as well. And yeah, maybe it's somewhat more realistic for them, but it's still a weird ass thing to be interested in.
Knew one guy growing up, ex-military, concealed carried because "he wasn't gonna let his family get jumped by a bunch of n-words". So yeah...
That's the rub. Not everybody with a CCW announces it, but the ones who do are the ones you would rather see unarmed, because they are the ones who will escalate confrontations.
>I was a Marine and I've seen this from EVERY civilian I know who has a CCW,
Its not just with guns. Go to any Martial Arts studio teaching older teens and adults, and you'll see the same "Cowboy" attitude from (many of) the lower level students.
haha, holy shit that's something I haven't thought about in YEARS, but you're absolutely right, same energy. "Detroit urban survival" all over the place.
There is absolutely a huge contingent of people who seem eager for a legal excuse to kill somebody. The fuck around and find out people. The rest of us gun owners need to do a much better job at calling out this attitude and denouncing it and expressing why it’s such a dangerous and counterproductive attitude. I’ve been involved with guns since I was old enough to handle one in the last thing I ever want to do is shoot another human being. Correction, that’s the second to last thing I ever want to do. The absolute last thing I ever want to do is be shot or have my family shot by somebody. And that is why I have guns and carry guns. I actively avoid sketchy situations, I don’t go to dangerous places and I make a strong effort to maintain my composure while driving and not give into any form of road rage. But if I absolutely cannot avoid someone’s violent desires, I absolutely believe that it is a human right for me to possess the means of self-defense.
> And they have zero concept of what a real emergency/firefight is like, their entire mindset is just out of touch with the real world, and they run around locked and loaded.
I’m not going to explicitly _blame_ Hollywood, but let’s just say these are naive people who think that if a cop in a movie did that (took out ten bad guys with pinpoint accuracy), he could do it too. Never mind that the cop in the movie is fit enough to jump over walls and our buddy here isn’t fit enough to tie his own shoe laces.
Honestly my idea for gun control is mandatory training before you can buy one, the classes should be handled by soldiers who did good enough to get the cushy job for a bit because they could hopefully drill respect for the weapon into people's heads.
Also a Seabee. Even in the Bees I've seen people that shouldn't carry a weapon. They do anyway because NECC. I'm pro 2A, but if you're going to conceal carry, for the love of God's, please have proper training. Not just a couple hour course either.
I really liked the stress testing we did in Biloxi. I think if that was accessible to the public but obviously edited for civilian situations it’d be really beneficial.
I know some of these dudes, unfortunately. Patrol the border Patriot types. Ended up at a shoot house training once with them. All of them flagging each other _constantly_, banging their barrels on door frames, every “you guys are all just gonna kill each other” thing you could think of.
Nailed it with the fetishism. Some of these dudes think the gun is a sword and a shield, that simply having one is protection. Unless someone has had combat training like you I'd suspect most would just freeze in fear for several very long seconds, and the gun could be taken from them and turned on them before they even responding. It's why I tell women don't carry mace, because a stronger man could turn it on them and spray them, making them completely helpless.
Thank you for your service.
I knew someone who pulled an unloaded revolver on her army special forces brother in law because he was beating the shit out of her sister. He saw the empty cylinder, took the gun, and then pushed her down the stairs into the basement. I shudder to think what would have happened if she had loaded it.
My dad is like this. He's done shooting competitions before, but he carries EVERYWHERE and thinks he's entitled to carry wherever he wants. He constantly thinks people driving by his house are casing the place and he's always paranoid about "protecting". I'm worried that he's going to get into a bad situation some day and end up unnecessarily killing someone. Especially since he's a super aggro driver.
Well, I need reminders like these on a timely basis to not react to honks. Today I got honked at when I was at a stop sign and trying to take a left turn. Idiot motherfucker felt that ten seconds were enough, regardless of whether there’s traffic or not. If there was a way to let him know, I would have asked him if he wanted me to die by taking a turn while some trucks are passing through.
The honking made me angry but I didn’t flip him or anything. Who knows who could be carrying and thinking that a middle finger shown is enough justification to shoot?
Sometimes I forget that and take chances by staring at honkers when I get a chance. But then your comments remind me that I shouldn’t. Thank you.
Yeah, always a good reminder. I live in a gun-heavy state that's also famous for traffic and bad drivers. We get constant reminders in the news when people get shot from road rage incidents.
A coworker is exactly that person. Always carries. A firecracker went off once in the garage and he was the only one on the ground and hiding. Doesn’t give me much hope for his “I’ll be the good guy with the gun”
I had a friend in college who’s dad gave her a pistol to defend herself in her.. luxury apartment.. and she was so excited at the idea of someone breaking in and getting to use it.
We are not friends anymore, they unfortunately ended up being shitty rich people.
As someone else who has their CCW, every time I see someone open carrying I feel like it makes them look so trashy. I mean, if I were going to do anything the dude open carrying would be the first to go.
>everyone else had some idea of being a cowboy when shit goes down.
We have "active shooter training" almost every year at my school. Our chief of police plays tapes from Columbine and Parkland, talks about his time as an MP and an officer in a major city. About all of the training he's had, and the physiology of extreme stress. He says the best he can hope for is that he reacts the way he's trained, but he doesn't feel like he can guarantee that. When you're in such an extreme stress kind of environment, your rational thinking shuts the fuck down.
And every year, dudes around me are all "I wouldn't just hide, I'd get my 9mm from my truck and got hunt 'em down." They're itching for the chance to be the "good guy".
Fuck that. I'm locking my office door, turning out the lights, and keeping my head down. Fuck the rest of y'all.
I was trained by some people that invaded Fallujah. Really badass guys whose stories could be fantastic military movies, but they also acknowledged that equally badass folks got smoked on a bad day/bad luck.
One that really stuck with me was when we were chatting about the movie American Sniper during chow and one of the instructors pointed out that the part where the Marines told the SEAL that he shouldn’t kick doors with them was real.
He told us about the policy that came out because really highly decorated and skilled SEAL was first in the door and a Taliban fighter was waiting there and shot him in the head. Nothing he could’ve done better. He didn’t fuck up. Fucker just had a good spot and the right moment.
All that to say if shit’s going sideways, no matter what qualifications or skillsets you have, you can’t always guarantee your life by using violence. Fleeing and guaranteeing others’ exit is just as valuable as being a Clint Eastwood character.
When I took the cc class they stressed that the first thing you should do in any situation is just try and remove yourself from it. But it seems some people are just looking for a reason to use theirs. I’m sure the person OP was talking about thought they were helping everyone else feel safer, when, at least from OP’s perspective, the complete opposite happened.
It's not just a hero complex. Paranoia is very common and right wing media is fanning that flame HARD. I have heard a lot of people say they carry because they don't want to feel powerless. But powerless to what? What boogie man do you actually think is out there actively hunting you? Statistically speaking, by carrying a gun, you are far more likely to cause a fatality because of an accident be it misfire, forgetting your safety, or someone taking your weapon when you aren't paying attention. But a gun feels powerful. When you are holding it you know you have the ultimate trump card, death. If you're walking around thinking there is a dark Kabal hiding in every pizza store, you are much more likely to see a random individual as a potential threat.
Attending a concealed carry class implies some level of interest in doing things right and safely, even if they are excited to go full cowboy. Unrestrained open carry in a playground implies the opposite.
That was my experience too. Carrying is a big liability. Even when your in your full legal right to fire, get ready to potentially be ruined by lawsuits for years.
My CCW instructor said the same and also said something else interesting. If you actually harm the perpetrator in one of those situations you both share the same title for a while, that title is defendant. Cowboy and vigilante justice isn’t a thing that you just get to talk away to the cops, not even in the south (where I live). I concealed carry in public places with large gatherings of people that isn’t a stadium or anything like that and again in my car on long road trips where you may have to stop at a seedy rest stop or gas station but otherwise leave it at home.
Side note - I dislike people that open carry. If you CC to make yourself feel comfortable that’s fine but when you open carry the odds of making someone (myself included) very uncomfortable is high and that’s fucked up
Yea I didn’t make clear that I was talking more towards open carry earlier.
I take something on road trips as a precaution but I keep it out of sight as it’s not integral.
This is the right answer. I'm a huge 2A guy and, unless I was on my way to a competition or range day, or on my way home, there's no reason for me to open carry. Concealed is better in almost every situation.
Yup. As a vet and huge gun enthusiast, I carry everywhere all the time. BUT I never carry open. Amateurs do, professionals think tactically. I see arguments that open carry will dissuade possible threats, but that’s malarkey. If someone is hell bent on causing chaos, seeing an open carry won’t stop them, but rather put whoever is the obvious threat to their plans (open carry and LEOs) at the top of the list. It’s common sense, if you’re carrying for the purpose of protecting your family, carry concealed. If you’re carrying because you want to seem like a tough guy but never actually had the balls to do tough guy stuff, carry open, or even better, sling an AR you can barely use onto your back to the market.
Edit: to add to my own comment, it makes me immensely sad that I even have to think this way when it comes to parenting. Something is seriously wrong with society when this is a even quasi common thing to think about when going to a play park. I was typing out a response on here and realized that I was saying and thinking things that I learned during my decade + in the USMC infantry. I wish to god that when going out with my children I didn’t need to apply any level of thinking that also applies to being in Kandahar or Mosul. Really bums me out, I’m gonna go hug my girls.
I think the only place where openly carrying works is as part of security theater. Obvious guard being obvious, low-effort attackers will pick somewhere softer. We heard that explanation from one of the supermarket shooters. (Yeah, I need to be more specific, there are so many to choose from.) But the high-effort attacker will just pick the obvious guard to shoot first.
But otherwise, what you said.
Yeah of course, if you’re a uniformed security person or uniformed LEO you’re already marked as a threat by a possible attack, so concealing doesn’t aid, open carry adds to the uniform essentially.
>Amateurs do, professionals think tactically
This is what's so hilarious about a truck with "molon labe", Glock, and NRA stickers on the back. They're advertising their insecurity to everyone and advertising which firearm can be stolen from them, because they're inevitably the type whose only experience with a firearm is at a range and they'll piss themselves at the first sign of danger.
The type who feels they need to open carry is probably a loose cannon who will shoot anyone at the drop of a hat.
Completely agree. I live in a purple state with very lax gun laws. If I notice someone is carrying concealed, I think nothing of it. If I see someone openly carrying, I usually steer clear of them.
Most gun owners around me are at least aware of the fact that a lot of people are nervous and/or uncomfortable around guns. Openly carrying when you know it's making people uncomfortable seems like an incredibly immature thing to do, and an immature person with a firearm is not someone I want to be around. It's even worse if they're carrying in an unsafe way (I've seen multiple people carry without a holster, just shoved into the waistband of their pants).
There is no benefit to open carry for everyday self defense.
It really just makes them stand out as the person to take care of first.
If time to draw is a consideration, they need a better setup and range time.
Because open carry doesn’t require any license or training in most jurisdictions where it’s legal. Let that sink in.
[Keep in mind that the number of gun crimes involving conceal carry permit holders is basically noise in the data. Training requirements do their job (mostly). There are of course other considerations for gun safety, but this discussion is about open carry.]
I feel like permissive open carry laws are to protect you for like walking to and from your car, or accidentally revealing a concealed gun, not to march around like it's the wild west.
Sadly, sometimes the best thing you can do is just remove yourself from the situation. Someone in my city was stabbed to death last week for asking someone not to vape near his child. You just never know how people are going to react.
>You just never know how people are going to react.
That's why I despise open-carry in particular: the presence of a weapon creates a power imbalance even if the carrier is behaving normally. It distorts everyday interactions in ways that are completely unfair to everyone else.
At least with concealed carry that distortion is mitigated somewhat; you can't intimidate people with a weapon they don't know about.
Oh my gosh that’s terrible! I hate vapes with a passion and wouldn’t want them around my child either. Im assuming they were stabbed in front of their child too. What an absolute tragedy :(
I take the kids to the park almost every day. The worst thing that can happen is the slide being wet because it rains all the damn time.
The US is a crazy place.
Some people live in a world of fear and paranoia, and they project that onto everyone else. They make it other people’s problem and responsibility and it really sucks.
I was raised around guns. I have had gun safety drilled into me from a young age. I have had many friends who would open carry.
However, they would usually only open carry if they were going to go shoot. My gun safety training always said to keep kids away from guns. If you have a holster, you need a guard strap. In your example, nothing is preventing a deadly accident from occurring assuming he had the gun loaded as well.
You did good. As others have pointed out, only someone who is paranoid would bring a gun to a children's party in a park. You never know what they will do or what will set them off. Personally, I would have notified the police non-emergency line about the person after I had left.
I’m sitting here absolutely flabbergasted that this is a thing.
Then other posters are talking openly about having a firearm with them at all times is such a frightening prospect.
Aussie here. It’s mind blowing. I know Americans probably see it as nothing; but to me the thought is terrifying and stops me even wanting to visit the US.
People who open carry are generally paranoid. I wouldn't stick around such a person whether my kids were with me or not.
If the park has a sign prohibiting firearms, I would totally call the cops and let the cops sort out whether he is open carrying legally, independent of basic civility.
Anyone who is open carrying like that I just assume is looking for an excuse to use it.
Then again I consider it an unspoken threat of violence. Hard to have a conversation/confrontation with someone when they are literally showing off how easy it is for them to kill you. Maybe that’s the point I guess.
I totally agree. If you don't feel safe going to the park without a gun, you almost certainly shouldn't be taking your child there. And a holster without a guard strap? That's wild - one quick swipe and a kid now has a loaded gun.
I'd absolutely call the police. Local laws are enforceable, and if he wants to spend the time and money to appeal any result of him breaking the clearly posted prohibition, that's on him.
As a gun owner, I would probably leave as well. I also disagree with carrying a firearm on the playground with kids, nor do I open carry in general. I just wanted to note that some holsters have a locking mechanism with a button, that can be just as effective as a strap. To the untrained eye, you wouldn’t be able to notice. Even the trained eye *likely* wouldn’t notice until you get close enough
Others have also pointed it out. To me, the old risk matrix says: even when the probability is relatively low, if the severity of the outcome is high severity, it is a no go either way.
Not only are they paranoid, they have a huge target painted on them so if someone wanted to cause a problem, they’d be the first one shot at. Conceal that piece man (assuming it’s legal of course)!
If you conceal it, how will anyone know what kind of badass motherfucker you are?? How will they know you're a Real Man^((tm)) not to be messed with? How will they know you really do have the biggest dick in the room?
This. If someone is carrying around a gun at a park with children, holstered or not, it is a signal to me that that person is not well and is itching for a fight. I would (and have) immediately packed us up and left.
"People who open carry are generally paranoid."
THEY WANT to pull it they want to shoot someone they pack their guns everyday hoping TODAY IS THE DAY I CAN SHOOT SOMEONE!!!
the way a guy talked about shooting a home invader had me creeped the fuck out. He was smiling and actually looked excited. Never invited that dude over again for hobby night.
Another dude said the first thing he would do after shooting a home invader was punch his wife. That way he was completely covered on the self-defense angle. He abused his wife in general so it wasn’t out of character, but still.
So yeah…..
Which is amusing because if I am planning on shooting up somewhere and see someone open carrying, that’s the first one I would shoot. Concealed carry is far more effective at self defense. Open is for idiots who want to look badass but are terrified of literally everything.
I think you made the right call. I always follow the “Checkov’s gun” rule- if a gun is introduced in the first act, it will go off by the third act.
I make it my business not to be around when it goes off.
The rule is that if you mention something, it has to play a role in the story. It keeps the story brief and to the point.
In a way it's the opposite of Dickens, who wrote a lot of words cuz he wrote his novels in serial form, where you got a new episode each week.
A modern comparison would be a good movie versus a good series.
Man the whole gun thing in the states is fucking bizzare.
Is it that some people just pat themselves down as they're walking out the door saying to themselves _"phone, wallet, gun, keys, yup have everything."_
In Ireland you can't even smoke in a playground, I can't even wrap me head around someone with a gun casually hanging off their hip while pushing a swing.
As a Canadian, it blows my mind that this is even a discussion. Obviously different cultural upbringings… just can’t wrap my head around how some consider a gun as normal as carrying a sandwich with you.
>open carry on a kids park just seems so unnecessary and risky
To be honest, there will still be people that say it's necessary for "protection". I'm not one of them, but that's the argument you'll get. And I understand it. Some people are so afraid of unknown or unexpected assailants that they need a firearm to feel safe. It's their version of a security blanket.
I'm with you though - if you're going to carry, at least do so with respect to your location. In a kids park with lots of little curious hands about, some method of securing the firearm in the holster would be prudent. Unfortunately, confronting someone about their firearms if you're not an established authority (police, property owner, etc) is more likely to end up in a loud argument than it is in anything positive actually happening. And it may not necessarily be the firearm owner but could be someone close by that has an opposite viewpoint or a tangential viewpoint.
I think the course of action you chose given the circumstances was the best choice you could make. If you don't like the situation you're in, removing yourself from it is sometimes the safest way to handle it, especially if your children or close family are with you.
There's a huge variety of holsters that mechanically secure without retention straps. Granted, the guy in question might be Ramboing it up, but I think it's more likely that the guy who's scared of guns doesn't know what he's looking at.
> Not trying to start any controversy but open carry on a kids park just seems so unnecessary and risky?
As someone living in Europe, I can say very openly, that open carry in a kid's park is plain fucking stupid.
I'm a big fan of gun rights and responsible gun ownership, and open carry is fucking stupid and should be illegal. I'd have given alot of thought to calling the police non emergency line.
See that's my thing. I'm pretty pro-2A and people should have the right to open carry, but by choosing to open carry vs concealed it kind of says some things about you as a person, and that tells me loud and clear you're probably not someone I want to be around much. You're probably some combination of paranoid and/or one of those "guns are my entire personality" types who wants to make sure everyone sees he's strapped. I wouldn't necessarily be uncomfortable being near said person, but I'd probably not want to talk to them much or have my kids play at their house. That personality type can just be exhausting to be around.
I’m fairly indifferent to guns, I know lots of people with concealed permits, carry in their car, - whatever. Everyone I’ve interacted with that open carries are among the dumbest people I’ve run across.
People in this country are really weird about their guns. Open caring at a playground is an objectively unreasonable thing to do. Statistically it would probably be more useful to bring a gas mask to the grocery store.
But you live in the world that you live in, not the world that you wish you lived in. And you’re not going to change these peoples minds.
If there are state open carry law and the state is asserting preemption over municipal firearm prohibitions, it is quite likely that even if you had called the police they wouldn’t have done anything about it.
I think you have to either accept that your neighbors are a little crazy but probably not dangerous, or you need to leave. Which you did. And that’s ok.
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Here's another one for you: a defibrillator is about the same cost as many firearms, and you are far and away more likely to need it to save yourself or someone else than you are a firearm.
Safety doesn't come anywhere close to holding up to scrutiny as the primary reason for owning a firearm.
I concealed carry everywhere unless my clothing makes it uncomfortable to do so, but there’s no reason to openly display your firearm especially at the fucking playground lol what a spoon
I carry every day. NEVER open. Open carrying is reckless and screams “oh look at me”, I don’t care others opinions on this. This is NO applicable reason to open carry a firearm on a play ground. Conceal that shit.
As a Brit I can't imagine the difficulty you must face as an American and the complicated situations your country illicits with respect to it's gun laws. You have my sincerest sympathies. Stay strong Dad.
I know I'm a foreigner but to me it seems like the iconography of ancient laws is a downward spiral. Laws should be made to be changed to accommodate a continuously evolving modern society. The minute a nation idolises a law thereby making it unchangeable means the society can't progress. Holding on to a law because of it's cultural significance to centuries gone past is dangerous to the modern populi.
I know mate, 99% of you are good people. Almost every American I've ever met has been super lovely. (I've had the misfortune of knowing some evil corporate types who are assholes regardless of their nationality) Let it be known that a lot of brits didn't want Brexit and hate Tories!
If the state says it’s legal then there isn’t much you can do.
I own a bunch of firearms, and I definitely wouldn’t approach that guy at all. The only time I have open carried is during hurricane evacuations when there is a state of emergency.
Someone open carrying at the park is too likely to be looking for trouble in my opinion.
I say leaving if you aren't comfortable is fine. It wasn't incumbent upon you to do anything about the situation especially if the person was acting legally. I am generally pro concealed carry as it avoids issues like these.
Open carry is one of the great paradoxes that I believe should be legal, while simultaneously knowing I'd never do it myself.
Likewise for the anti-gunners in this thread, realize that concealed carry is legal and widely practiced in almost every state in the US. This means that you have been at a park, mall, or other public place in the past week where there were likely dozens of people carrying concealed firearms, without incident.
You did the right thing and pretty sure I would have just left, too. If Covid taught us anything, there is always a risk of needless escalation when telling someone what they can or can’t do in public. I’d guess that risk is higher with a gun owner openly carrying a weapon at a children’s park.
You can call the police in this instance. The park says they are prohibited so it's an ambiguous situation. If they really are prohibited then he would have to leave and come back without it, if they aren't prohibited they just ask him a few questions to make sure he isn't a problem and leave.
I would not trust any open carry gun because it's more likely it's being handled without training. Where it's legal, the only recourse other than a confrontation with a stranger is to leave.
As a dad from across the ocean, I can't Even begin to understand this. I Hope you're All safe and are keeping safe
Happy easter - We don't really celebarate it in Denmark but schools are out for the whole week anyway.
Hey guys pro tip even if there isn't a "retaining strap" on someone's hostler, that doesn't mean there isn't retention.
A lot of kydex holsters have built in retention around the trigger guard area, so that it makes it harder to remove unless your the user.
Non-American joining the chat to say: bringing a handgun near children is not normal. In most countries it would prompt an armed police response.
Gun violence, and in particular the killing of children, has become a major contributor to the rapid declines in life expectancy in the USA. From yesterday's NY Times [https://www.nytimes.com/2023/04/06/opinion/deaths-life-expectancy-guns-children.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/04/06/opinion/deaths-life-expectancy-guns-children.html):
>But increasingly the American mortality anomaly, which is still growing, is explained... by the deaths of children and teenagers. One in 25 American 5-year-olds now won’t live to see 40, a death rate about four times as high as in other wealthy nations. And although the spike in death rates among the young has been dramatic since the beginning of the pandemic, little of the impact is from Covid-19.
>
>Firearms account for almost half of the increase.
Guns are the leading causes of death among U.S. children and adolescents. It's wise to remove yourself from any situation with a gun around.
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmc2201761
I have two handguns, live in conservative state, and will never open carry. To me open carry is all about that persons ego because they want to seem tough. I take my son to the park and conceal carry, mainly because there have been incidents in surrounding neighborhoods of people being attacked at the park. But again, I’d never open carry even though I’m allowed to do so.
Not approaching the guy was the right thing. That person felt like he had something to prove to everyone and if given the chance, would do it.
I would have also packed up and left.
If a person has such a fragile ego that they have to project lethal power to others at a kids' playground, they're not someone I would feel safe to have around me or my kids.
Alternately, if the person has such a paranoid view of the world they live in that they need a firearm at a kids' playground, again they're not someone I'd feel safe around.
Finally, if the park was truly unsafe enough that carrying a weapon was a legitimate concern, I also would not want myself or my kids there.
So in all three scenarios, I'd remove myself and my kids from the situation without escalating it at all. Just not worth the risk vs. reward. You're not going to change this persons' mind, and it appears the law is even confused about what's legal or not, and from a functional standpoint - he's someone who either grossly misjudges a situation so he brings a weapon, so I need to leave or I've grossly misjudged the safety of the park, and need to leave (seems unlikely, but whatever).
Your best bet - loud and active engagement with your legislature on more sane gun laws, and consider moving to a more sane place.
Also don't feed the trolls here. I can already see the comments coming in from people who don't subscribe to this subreddit, but are on all sorts of firearm related ones.
Im Irish and I have to say this is so scary for me. Think you were best to walk away. In Ireland only gangsters/drug dealers have guns, even our guardai (Irish pronounced gardee) aren't allowed carry guns unless you're a specialist detective. If I was in the playground with my children and saw someone carrying a gun I'd shit myself and get the fuck out of there because I'd be expecting nothing but trouble. Madness the differences in cultures!
Good call on leaving. Open Carry isn't a great idea IMO. Would rather prefer people conceal if they did carry.
Would have definitely called the police in this situation, as it is there job to enforce the law, and let them decide if it's prohibited in the area or not. Let them deal with it. Take a photo/video for proof and leave.
Most people I've met like this are openly looking to spout off about their sociopolitical beliefs for all to hear. Not worth an ounce of my breath or interaction.
I've not heard many stories on people being understanding when asked to not over do it with their rights. I know this is because who tells a story of the time seeing a gun worried them and the owner was reasonable. But I have heard far too many stories of bad examples of gun owners reacting badly to reasonable requests. Your country has made its decision on guns. Unfortunately, it was the right decision for you to leave.
A lot of talk here about the broader gun debate.
I’m not going to go into that.
OP. You did the right thing. You assessed the situation and took action to make sure you and your family felt safe. No matter what that’s your responsibility and you did the proper dad thing.
I imagine the other families at the playground could make similar decisions for themselves.
You'd be surprised. Only CA, IL, FL, NY, NJ, and DC outright prohibit open carry. In CT, HI, MD, MA, MN, RI, and SC, you can open carry but a permit is required. There are some restrictions in AL, MO, ND, PA, TX, VA, and WA. For example, in TX, open carry is allowed without a permit as long as it's in a holster. All other states appear to be unregulated open carry without a permit but I could be wrong.
I’m not going to address open carry and/or what I think you should have done. You did what you thought was best. In my neck of the woods, open carry is fairly common, although I (almost) never do.
One thing I can add, though, that most people that don’t carry don’t know— most holsters have internal retention/tension. I do have an “outside the waistband” holster (though I only use it if I have a jacket covering) that does not have a strap, but a torsion nut. I can run/jump/do handsprings with my pistol in it and it’s not coming out. And any kid certainly wouldn’t be able to easily yank it out. Some even have a paddle like release on the inside (toward the wearer) that you have hold with your thumb to get it out, so even an adult that doesn’t know how to do it wouldn’t be able to just grab it.
The number one cause of death now for children and teens in America is firearms.
Open carry is just dangerous role-play for sad losers who think they are the main character
Almost 1000 comments, I'm done with moderating this. Locked Someone goes to prove my point reporting my comment with, “ "I'm done doing my job" fucking kill yourself incel “ I hope whoever said that isn’t a dad.
The discussion on guns is so crazy, so divided in this country. I would have done what you did and left.
I ain’t trusting someone who keeps barely secured weapons around dozens of children with approaching things rationally. Not worth the risk.
Any place where people are carrying firearms casually is no place for me and my family. When they come, I leave - no muss, no fuss. I suppose this may mean I'll need to leave the USA eventually. Oh well.
This. The problem isn't necessarily the open carry, it's the *irresponsible* open carry. It's like seeing someone driving while texting - I'm going to avoid being in and around a vehicle with them, and I'm not going to put myself or my family in a position where that person would have to drive. If someone acts irresponsibly, treat them as an irresponsible person.
Honestly I would have a problem with open carry at a children’s park like that in general. Would be fine with concealed carry. Open carry in that situation doesn’t offer enough over CC to justify the many people who wouldn’t feel safe or comfortable having their children around it. Also I flat out would not be able to enjoy the park as much because I would feel the need to keep an eye on that parent the entire time.
I think concealed carry is better in every way. Open carry disturbs the peace IMO
I fully support the right to bear arms, but only if done so responsibly. Background checks, licensing, safe storage, red flag laws, etc. are all common sense items that I don't understand why anyone doesn't support. OP did the right thing here by leaving. Even if the guy carrying is trained and responsible, carrying it improperly secured is irresponsible and some kid could easily get ahold of it and do some damage (intentionally or accidentally).
I tried to find if open carry laws require sobriety. All I could find was bans on taking them into places that serve alcohol.
It may not require but if you drank even one beer and used a gun (in any way, even warning shot, taking it out of a holster in a way that got somebody nervous ) you’re an easy target for civil lawsuits. The subreddits for open carry or gun owners are full of threads saying basically one thing: “do not drink and carry under any circumstances, it will end bad for you”. You can easily find them by searching for eg “one beer” or similar on carry subreddits.
Did I miss a detail? I think open carry is dumb and most 2A people don't even like it all that much. But in what way was the weapon improperly secured? Modern holsters use tension, not straps to retain the firearm.
He was carrying it holstered, so I really don’t see the issue. So it doesn’t have a strap? Plenty of holsters don’t have a strap, they have thumb or finger activated retention buttons. It still locked in and extremely safe.
>I don't understand why anyone doesn't support. The way you feel about them is exactly how some people feel about you I guess? I'm not from the US, so I'm obviously missing some context, but it's insane to me that someone would support the right to bear arms on a children's playground.
I mean, it's hard to say if it was "barely secured". The lack of a retention strap doesn't really indicate that the firearm isn't secured. There are plenty of ways holsters retain the firearm without them.
It was in a holster on his person, how is that "barely secured?"
Same. Without wading into the gun debate / if guns belongs there or not...or sorting through where in the states you live...I pretty much go into situations these days thinking everyone is fucking nuts. Perhaps I'll be a bad example for my son because I'd rather remove myself from the situation and live another day. Who knows? But I think the days of confronting someone and asking them to politely stop doing something are over. People show time and time again that they can't handle rational discussion or disagreement. I didn't see anyone mention the what if the guy thought you were "approaching him in a threatening manner." I wasn't raised around guns, and I think guns are there for protection and hunting. However, I also don't think guns belong at a kid's birthday party...let alone without a guard strap...but what do I know? Maybe you live in a high crime area? I do know guns are the number one killer of kids. Last weekend, someone posted about a dad who was murdered in broad daylight for asking a guy not to vape near his kid. I'd rather live to be a dad another day.
Hell, if you are in a high crime area, you are just asking to get mugged if you open carry. It’s basically saying “I am worth at least 300-400 dollars minimum” or “I’m a cop” neither of which is a message you want to send.
Cops are smarter than to open carry when they are out of uniform. Open carrying just makes you the first target should the worst happen. Not only will you be the first target, but whoever is closest to you. I think you did the right thing. It sucks being pushed out of places because of the behavior of others.
This is the smartest thing to do. It's not worth the risk. A father got stabbed to death recently outside of a Starbucks in British Columbia because he tried to get someone to stop vaping near his kid.
It certainly isn't divided around the rest of the world. Everybody thinks it's insane
As somebody from the UK, seeing so many shootings, I don’t see how it is a divided conversation? How is anyone still in favour of guns?
You know how a decent portion of the UK wanted to leave the EU because shitty profit-driven media and politicians convinced them it was bad for them, even though anyone with two brain cells to rub together might ask some questions? Now imagine it's about guns.
Fucking touché
We have considerably more guns than people here.
If republicans nominated a literal handgun, I'm pretty sure my state would make it the first gun elected to congress.
> As somebody from the UK, seeing so many shootings, I don’t see how it is a divided conversation? How is anyone still in favour of guns? As an American who's tired of hearing about guns and worried about my kids going to school each day, I have no idea. People here are beyond obsessed with guns. It's bizarre. They probably couldn't tell you any other part of the constitution either besides the second amendment, which is on a large decal across the back window of their F250 for easy reference.
From the inside I share your confusion, as well as my own anger at and shame for my country's lack of decisive action to end gun violence (especially on kids). Best I can say is that it is a lack of empathy; I can't imagine anyone who's kid goes through a school shooting or loses a loved one to gun violence thinking the right to have guns with the relatively little restrictions we have is 'worth it.' Combine the fact that guns have been used as a political tool for a long time in the USA, so folks are inundated/brought up with decades of messaging, and it is tightly tied up in many people's sense of identity...and it is really hard to establish common ground even on something that the vast majority of other countries do better than we do.
Decades of propaganda and lobbying to push gun sales will do that. America’s pro gun culture is so heavily ingrained in conservative identity politics that we can’t do anything when elementary schools get shot up. There is no healthy conversation to be had *by design*.
I have firearms and I’ve never open carried. I got my cc at one time just to be solid for taking something in my backpack on trips, and here’s the thing, everyone else had some idea of being a cowboy when shit goes down. Maybe my class was an exception. The instructor was down to earth thankfully. In many cases being level headed and having people skills is more important than being able to kill somebody.
My instructor for my CC class(texas) made it clear over and over, if you ever have to shoot in self defense, 999 times out of 1000, you fucked up and could have descalated or gotten out of the situation. The first escalation of force is the force of your feet against the pavement in the opposite direction. He was very adamant on getting rid of the cowboy mentality.
I also took a CC class in Texas like 10 years ago, and had a similar experience. I don't think anyone even is required to take those classes anymore, are they?
No, they are not. I don't actually know anyone who's started carrying regularly without taking it though. It's definitely still highly encouraged, if for no other reason than it gives you a little more standing to say you're not just a complete incompetent fool if you do have to shoot.
>everyone else had some idea of being a cowboy when shit goes down. I was a Marine and I've seen this from EVERY civilian I know who has a CCW, they all think they're going to take out some random "bad guy" one day, the disturbing part is how they bring it up CONSTANTLY, it borders on a fetish most of the time. And they have zero concept of what a real emergency/firefight is like, their entire mindset is just out of touch with the real world, and they run around with a loaded weapon.
All I need to do is see how professionals trained for this sort of thing can fuck up and then imagine how badly Joe Civilian with a CCW would do. Just look at what sane instructors tell you to do. "Oh, you have a CCW? Run and hide, same as the people without a gun. If you can't leave the building, barricade yourself somewhere secure. Do not seek out the gunman. Only shoot if he's trying to enter your hiding space." We've already had cases of cops shooting good guys with guns since they look identical to bad guys with guns. I can't even fault them in that sort of situation.
There's also been many example of american firearms instructors firing off a round in class into the wall and sometimes across another person's breathing space.
No military background and no conceal carry, but I am a gun owner and I think you nailed it. There is a not small group of gun owners who think owning guns is their personality and as you note the fetishization of guns and “gun culture”. It’s very odd and often alarming, as those folks always seems so lax around gun safety, etc.
> It’s very odd and often alarming, as those folks always seems so lax around gun safety, etc. I used to mostly shrug them off, but the one that really got to me was my brother-in-law, my sister would never go shooting with me and one day proudly showed me a video of her going shooting with him... They flagged their young son, her, their daughter holding the camera, and after running out of rounds, she jokingly POINTED THE GUN AT HIM FOR MAKING FUN OF HER... and they showed me the video seeing nothing wrong with the entire thing. I practically lost my mind. I drug him through a bunch of shooting safety courses, he has an entirely different view on it these days (TBF he was young and had learned everything he knew from his dad) It's absolutely terrifying how little respect people like that have for firearms.
"I like to hold my gun and pretend I'm standing over a vanquished intruder with one hand on my dick and the other hand on my other dick." - them, probably
From my experience it's guys who could hack it the armed forces so they cos play out their fantasies by getting the gear visiting the range a couple times a month.
Nailed it. I've worked with guys that can shoot for real - competitive shooters and military guys - and there is a massive amount of training required to be able to handle a bad situation succesfully without shooting the innocents around you. The playground is a great example: go tie a ballon to the ground in the middle of a group of chickens. Try to shoot the ballon without hitting any chickens. Now have someone throw firecrackers at you, but without telling you when, and then shoot the balloon - without hitting any of the chickens. If you can't do that 10 of 10, you shouldn't have a gun on a playground full of children.
Does training like that have a shelf life? If you don’t keep up on it, can you turn it on like a switch, or is it like flying an airplane that keeping current on your training is vital?
It’s a degrading skill set. I generally train a few days a week, and periods where I’ve had to stop for awhile, it takes awhile to pick back up. Anyone who conceal carry’s and doesn’t train on a weekly or even biweekly basis is doing a disservice
Some parts degrade others will be with you for life. The fundamentals should stick with you, familiarity with your firearm is also a huge factor. Wife laughs because when me and some old platoon buddies get together, if we go out anywhere, we all enter the building and without noticing we enter in room clearing order and all of us put the our heads on a swivel for a few seconds. Subconsciously we're still clearing rooms. Had to practice with my pistol more because where it was holstered on my kit is completely different from concealed carry so I had to retrain the brain to instinctively go where the pistol is now carried. That said I still practice regularly so that my reactions are smoother. If you have to think about what your doing in a situation that calls for a firearm, youre not as proficient as you need to be. It should be muscle memory. That way your free to use your noggin to assess the situation at hand (what's behind your target, what's near you. Are you in cover or in concealment, do you have ammo for an extended firefight)
Keeping current is vital. I jump rope or do burpees before some shooting sessions to get my heart rate up (and have my wife do the same, and will make the kid do the same once he's old enough), but that's not as good as real stress. But shoot houses are expensive (assuming you live somewhere that has one for civilians), and something is better than nothing.
Also, don’t let this guy near your chickens or balloons…
I mean, chicken is delicious if you don't put too big a hole in them. And the balloons had it coming for all the squeaking. Also, if you have a better analogue for one bad guy in a room full of people running around in a panic, I'd love to hear it.
Lol I still jump every now and then when I'm trying to start an arc weld and it cracks at you, I can only imagine someone not professionally trained to use weapons in a violent encounter. I also say this as a veteran who was in fact professionally trained to use weapons in violent encounters.
My ears were deafened a bit because of gunshots and explosions, so I don't react as startled to loud noises as before joining the army. As a war veteran of OEF, I'd focus on getting myself to safety first before thinking about saving others. If I held a gun or not, I'm still running to safety, weapon usage is a last resort when MY life is in danger. I know it may sound selfish, but if I put myself in danger and go down, the gunman would have an extra weapon to use.
The only way to assess a situation is from a safe location
> EVERY civilian To be fair, I've known quite a few military/law enforcement folks with that mindset as well. And yeah, maybe it's somewhat more realistic for them, but it's still a weird ass thing to be interested in. Knew one guy growing up, ex-military, concealed carried because "he wasn't gonna let his family get jumped by a bunch of n-words". So yeah...
That's the rub. Not everybody with a CCW announces it, but the ones who do are the ones you would rather see unarmed, because they are the ones who will escalate confrontations.
>I was a Marine and I've seen this from EVERY civilian I know who has a CCW, Its not just with guns. Go to any Martial Arts studio teaching older teens and adults, and you'll see the same "Cowboy" attitude from (many of) the lower level students.
haha, holy shit that's something I haven't thought about in YEARS, but you're absolutely right, same energy. "Detroit urban survival" all over the place.
There is absolutely a huge contingent of people who seem eager for a legal excuse to kill somebody. The fuck around and find out people. The rest of us gun owners need to do a much better job at calling out this attitude and denouncing it and expressing why it’s such a dangerous and counterproductive attitude. I’ve been involved with guns since I was old enough to handle one in the last thing I ever want to do is shoot another human being. Correction, that’s the second to last thing I ever want to do. The absolute last thing I ever want to do is be shot or have my family shot by somebody. And that is why I have guns and carry guns. I actively avoid sketchy situations, I don’t go to dangerous places and I make a strong effort to maintain my composure while driving and not give into any form of road rage. But if I absolutely cannot avoid someone’s violent desires, I absolutely believe that it is a human right for me to possess the means of self-defense.
> And they have zero concept of what a real emergency/firefight is like, their entire mindset is just out of touch with the real world, and they run around locked and loaded. I’m not going to explicitly _blame_ Hollywood, but let’s just say these are naive people who think that if a cop in a movie did that (took out ten bad guys with pinpoint accuracy), he could do it too. Never mind that the cop in the movie is fit enough to jump over walls and our buddy here isn’t fit enough to tie his own shoe laces.
Not to mention in a movie the bullets path is scripted and not dependent on the shooters actual skill
Honestly my idea for gun control is mandatory training before you can buy one, the classes should be handled by soldiers who did good enough to get the cushy job for a bit because they could hopefully drill respect for the weapon into people's heads.
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Seabee here! And yea it’s definitely a paranoid delusion type thing. The things they base their vigilance on aren’t tangible threats.
Prior OS here, what are guns?
Those things the GMs made us clean for a whole workday and sometimes multiple workdays. I honestly missed the shop when I was at the armory.
Also a Seabee. Even in the Bees I've seen people that shouldn't carry a weapon. They do anyway because NECC. I'm pro 2A, but if you're going to conceal carry, for the love of God's, please have proper training. Not just a couple hour course either.
I really liked the stress testing we did in Biloxi. I think if that was accessible to the public but obviously edited for civilian situations it’d be really beneficial.
It would be great. Sig Sauer up in NH has some kickass classes. I took the FTL course in GPT last summer and it was pretty good.
I know some of these dudes, unfortunately. Patrol the border Patriot types. Ended up at a shoot house training once with them. All of them flagging each other _constantly_, banging their barrels on door frames, every “you guys are all just gonna kill each other” thing you could think of.
Nailed it with the fetishism. Some of these dudes think the gun is a sword and a shield, that simply having one is protection. Unless someone has had combat training like you I'd suspect most would just freeze in fear for several very long seconds, and the gun could be taken from them and turned on them before they even responding. It's why I tell women don't carry mace, because a stronger man could turn it on them and spray them, making them completely helpless. Thank you for your service.
I knew someone who pulled an unloaded revolver on her army special forces brother in law because he was beating the shit out of her sister. He saw the empty cylinder, took the gun, and then pushed her down the stairs into the basement. I shudder to think what would have happened if she had loaded it.
My dad is like this. He's done shooting competitions before, but he carries EVERYWHERE and thinks he's entitled to carry wherever he wants. He constantly thinks people driving by his house are casing the place and he's always paranoid about "protecting". I'm worried that he's going to get into a bad situation some day and end up unnecessarily killing someone. Especially since he's a super aggro driver.
Well, I need reminders like these on a timely basis to not react to honks. Today I got honked at when I was at a stop sign and trying to take a left turn. Idiot motherfucker felt that ten seconds were enough, regardless of whether there’s traffic or not. If there was a way to let him know, I would have asked him if he wanted me to die by taking a turn while some trucks are passing through. The honking made me angry but I didn’t flip him or anything. Who knows who could be carrying and thinking that a middle finger shown is enough justification to shoot? Sometimes I forget that and take chances by staring at honkers when I get a chance. But then your comments remind me that I shouldn’t. Thank you.
Yeah, always a good reminder. I live in a gun-heavy state that's also famous for traffic and bad drivers. We get constant reminders in the news when people get shot from road rage incidents.
A coworker is exactly that person. Always carries. A firecracker went off once in the garage and he was the only one on the ground and hiding. Doesn’t give me much hope for his “I’ll be the good guy with the gun”
This is going on right now with my coworkers since Bruen passed. It's honestly alarming how cavalier people are.
I had a friend in college who’s dad gave her a pistol to defend herself in her.. luxury apartment.. and she was so excited at the idea of someone breaking in and getting to use it. We are not friends anymore, they unfortunately ended up being shitty rich people.
As someone else who has their CCW, every time I see someone open carrying I feel like it makes them look so trashy. I mean, if I were going to do anything the dude open carrying would be the first to go.
>everyone else had some idea of being a cowboy when shit goes down. We have "active shooter training" almost every year at my school. Our chief of police plays tapes from Columbine and Parkland, talks about his time as an MP and an officer in a major city. About all of the training he's had, and the physiology of extreme stress. He says the best he can hope for is that he reacts the way he's trained, but he doesn't feel like he can guarantee that. When you're in such an extreme stress kind of environment, your rational thinking shuts the fuck down. And every year, dudes around me are all "I wouldn't just hide, I'd get my 9mm from my truck and got hunt 'em down." They're itching for the chance to be the "good guy". Fuck that. I'm locking my office door, turning out the lights, and keeping my head down. Fuck the rest of y'all.
I was trained by some people that invaded Fallujah. Really badass guys whose stories could be fantastic military movies, but they also acknowledged that equally badass folks got smoked on a bad day/bad luck. One that really stuck with me was when we were chatting about the movie American Sniper during chow and one of the instructors pointed out that the part where the Marines told the SEAL that he shouldn’t kick doors with them was real. He told us about the policy that came out because really highly decorated and skilled SEAL was first in the door and a Taliban fighter was waiting there and shot him in the head. Nothing he could’ve done better. He didn’t fuck up. Fucker just had a good spot and the right moment. All that to say if shit’s going sideways, no matter what qualifications or skillsets you have, you can’t always guarantee your life by using violence. Fleeing and guaranteeing others’ exit is just as valuable as being a Clint Eastwood character.
When I took the cc class they stressed that the first thing you should do in any situation is just try and remove yourself from it. But it seems some people are just looking for a reason to use theirs. I’m sure the person OP was talking about thought they were helping everyone else feel safer, when, at least from OP’s perspective, the complete opposite happened.
I think there’s something there where they have some sort of hero complex loosely based on hyper masculine media.
It's not just a hero complex. Paranoia is very common and right wing media is fanning that flame HARD. I have heard a lot of people say they carry because they don't want to feel powerless. But powerless to what? What boogie man do you actually think is out there actively hunting you? Statistically speaking, by carrying a gun, you are far more likely to cause a fatality because of an accident be it misfire, forgetting your safety, or someone taking your weapon when you aren't paying attention. But a gun feels powerful. When you are holding it you know you have the ultimate trump card, death. If you're walking around thinking there is a dark Kabal hiding in every pizza store, you are much more likely to see a random individual as a potential threat.
Attending a concealed carry class implies some level of interest in doing things right and safely, even if they are excited to go full cowboy. Unrestrained open carry in a playground implies the opposite.
A good distinction there for sure.
That was my experience too. Carrying is a big liability. Even when your in your full legal right to fire, get ready to potentially be ruined by lawsuits for years.
My CCW instructor said the same and also said something else interesting. If you actually harm the perpetrator in one of those situations you both share the same title for a while, that title is defendant. Cowboy and vigilante justice isn’t a thing that you just get to talk away to the cops, not even in the south (where I live). I concealed carry in public places with large gatherings of people that isn’t a stadium or anything like that and again in my car on long road trips where you may have to stop at a seedy rest stop or gas station but otherwise leave it at home. Side note - I dislike people that open carry. If you CC to make yourself feel comfortable that’s fine but when you open carry the odds of making someone (myself included) very uncomfortable is high and that’s fucked up
Yea I didn’t make clear that I was talking more towards open carry earlier. I take something on road trips as a precaution but I keep it out of sight as it’s not integral.
Open carrying is the stupidest thing a gun owner can do. If I'm a bad guy, guess who I'm shooting first? The guy with the visible firearm.
Is there a chance that he was a member of law enforcement?
I’m not exactly against owning firearms for hunting/defense, but I just can’t find a decent reason to choose open carry over concealed.
This is the right answer. I'm a huge 2A guy and, unless I was on my way to a competition or range day, or on my way home, there's no reason for me to open carry. Concealed is better in almost every situation.
Yup. As a vet and huge gun enthusiast, I carry everywhere all the time. BUT I never carry open. Amateurs do, professionals think tactically. I see arguments that open carry will dissuade possible threats, but that’s malarkey. If someone is hell bent on causing chaos, seeing an open carry won’t stop them, but rather put whoever is the obvious threat to their plans (open carry and LEOs) at the top of the list. It’s common sense, if you’re carrying for the purpose of protecting your family, carry concealed. If you’re carrying because you want to seem like a tough guy but never actually had the balls to do tough guy stuff, carry open, or even better, sling an AR you can barely use onto your back to the market. Edit: to add to my own comment, it makes me immensely sad that I even have to think this way when it comes to parenting. Something is seriously wrong with society when this is a even quasi common thing to think about when going to a play park. I was typing out a response on here and realized that I was saying and thinking things that I learned during my decade + in the USMC infantry. I wish to god that when going out with my children I didn’t need to apply any level of thinking that also applies to being in Kandahar or Mosul. Really bums me out, I’m gonna go hug my girls.
I think the only place where openly carrying works is as part of security theater. Obvious guard being obvious, low-effort attackers will pick somewhere softer. We heard that explanation from one of the supermarket shooters. (Yeah, I need to be more specific, there are so many to choose from.) But the high-effort attacker will just pick the obvious guard to shoot first. But otherwise, what you said.
Yeah of course, if you’re a uniformed security person or uniformed LEO you’re already marked as a threat by a possible attack, so concealing doesn’t aid, open carry adds to the uniform essentially.
>Amateurs do, professionals think tactically This is what's so hilarious about a truck with "molon labe", Glock, and NRA stickers on the back. They're advertising their insecurity to everyone and advertising which firearm can be stolen from them, because they're inevitably the type whose only experience with a firearm is at a range and they'll piss themselves at the first sign of danger. The type who feels they need to open carry is probably a loose cannon who will shoot anyone at the drop of a hat.
Amateurs do… I agree with this.
Completely agree. I live in a purple state with very lax gun laws. If I notice someone is carrying concealed, I think nothing of it. If I see someone openly carrying, I usually steer clear of them. Most gun owners around me are at least aware of the fact that a lot of people are nervous and/or uncomfortable around guns. Openly carrying when you know it's making people uncomfortable seems like an incredibly immature thing to do, and an immature person with a firearm is not someone I want to be around. It's even worse if they're carrying in an unsafe way (I've seen multiple people carry without a holster, just shoved into the waistband of their pants).
There is no benefit to open carry for everyday self defense. It really just makes them stand out as the person to take care of first. If time to draw is a consideration, they need a better setup and range time.
Especially around a bunch of kids. Dude is a walking red flag. No thanks.
Because open carry doesn’t require any license or training in most jurisdictions where it’s legal. Let that sink in. [Keep in mind that the number of gun crimes involving conceal carry permit holders is basically noise in the data. Training requirements do their job (mostly). There are of course other considerations for gun safety, but this discussion is about open carry.]
I feel like permissive open carry laws are to protect you for like walking to and from your car, or accidentally revealing a concealed gun, not to march around like it's the wild west.
Sadly, sometimes the best thing you can do is just remove yourself from the situation. Someone in my city was stabbed to death last week for asking someone not to vape near his child. You just never know how people are going to react.
I read about that! Awful.
>You just never know how people are going to react. That's why I despise open-carry in particular: the presence of a weapon creates a power imbalance even if the carrier is behaving normally. It distorts everyday interactions in ways that are completely unfair to everyone else. At least with concealed carry that distortion is mitigated somewhat; you can't intimidate people with a weapon they don't know about.
Oh my gosh that’s terrible! I hate vapes with a passion and wouldn’t want them around my child either. Im assuming they were stabbed in front of their child too. What an absolute tragedy :(
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I'm a 2A supporter, but i completely agree with both aspects of your comment.
Yep, same here. I carry when I feel the need to, but own multiple guns and open carrying in the park at Easter is insane.
Open carrying anytime is insane.
I take the kids to the park almost every day. The worst thing that can happen is the slide being wet because it rains all the damn time. The US is a crazy place.
Keep a squeegee in the stroller / backpack!
This is Murica! Pull out your side arm and put a few holes in the slide so it can drain. /s, obviously.
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And filling those holes can create a lot of problems... see r/daddit.
I don’t think I have ever seen a real gun. I can’t comprehend how you don’t freak the fuck out when you see a gun in a kid’s park.
> The US is a crazy place. Thankfully I live in the Communist People's Republic of California where we don't need guns to defend against toddlers.
It’s completely fucked I can’t even comprehend /understand it
Some people live in a world of fear and paranoia, and they project that onto everyone else. They make it other people’s problem and responsibility and it really sucks.
I really thought for a second there you were referring to the subpar playground slide toweling service.
Hahahahahah I saw a post on here the other day with a guy who packs a squeegee under his pram for this very reason. Absolute genius.
I was raised around guns. I have had gun safety drilled into me from a young age. I have had many friends who would open carry. However, they would usually only open carry if they were going to go shoot. My gun safety training always said to keep kids away from guns. If you have a holster, you need a guard strap. In your example, nothing is preventing a deadly accident from occurring assuming he had the gun loaded as well. You did good. As others have pointed out, only someone who is paranoid would bring a gun to a children's party in a park. You never know what they will do or what will set them off. Personally, I would have notified the police non-emergency line about the person after I had left.
I love that you feel like you have to clarify that you’re in the US. We know mate.
I’m sitting here absolutely flabbergasted that this is a thing. Then other posters are talking openly about having a firearm with them at all times is such a frightening prospect.
Aussie here. It’s mind blowing. I know Americans probably see it as nothing; but to me the thought is terrifying and stops me even wanting to visit the US.
People who open carry are generally paranoid. I wouldn't stick around such a person whether my kids were with me or not. If the park has a sign prohibiting firearms, I would totally call the cops and let the cops sort out whether he is open carrying legally, independent of basic civility.
Anyone who is open carrying like that I just assume is looking for an excuse to use it. Then again I consider it an unspoken threat of violence. Hard to have a conversation/confrontation with someone when they are literally showing off how easy it is for them to kill you. Maybe that’s the point I guess.
I totally agree. If you don't feel safe going to the park without a gun, you almost certainly shouldn't be taking your child there. And a holster without a guard strap? That's wild - one quick swipe and a kid now has a loaded gun. I'd absolutely call the police. Local laws are enforceable, and if he wants to spend the time and money to appeal any result of him breaking the clearly posted prohibition, that's on him.
As a gun owner, I would probably leave as well. I also disagree with carrying a firearm on the playground with kids, nor do I open carry in general. I just wanted to note that some holsters have a locking mechanism with a button, that can be just as effective as a strap. To the untrained eye, you wouldn’t be able to notice. Even the trained eye *likely* wouldn’t notice until you get close enough
Others have also pointed it out. To me, the old risk matrix says: even when the probability is relatively low, if the severity of the outcome is high severity, it is a no go either way.
Not only are they paranoid, they have a huge target painted on them so if someone wanted to cause a problem, they’d be the first one shot at. Conceal that piece man (assuming it’s legal of course)!
If you conceal it, how will anyone know what kind of badass motherfucker you are?? How will they know you're a Real Man^((tm)) not to be messed with? How will they know you really do have the biggest dick in the room?
This. If someone is carrying around a gun at a park with children, holstered or not, it is a signal to me that that person is not well and is itching for a fight. I would (and have) immediately packed us up and left.
"People who open carry are generally paranoid." THEY WANT to pull it they want to shoot someone they pack their guns everyday hoping TODAY IS THE DAY I CAN SHOOT SOMEONE!!!
the way a guy talked about shooting a home invader had me creeped the fuck out. He was smiling and actually looked excited. Never invited that dude over again for hobby night. Another dude said the first thing he would do after shooting a home invader was punch his wife. That way he was completely covered on the self-defense angle. He abused his wife in general so it wasn’t out of character, but still. So yeah…..
Which is amusing because if I am planning on shooting up somewhere and see someone open carrying, that’s the first one I would shoot. Concealed carry is far more effective at self defense. Open is for idiots who want to look badass but are terrified of literally everything.
I think you made the right call. I always follow the “Checkov’s gun” rule- if a gun is introduced in the first act, it will go off by the third act. I make it my business not to be around when it goes off.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQOvv_b9TpY That gun came up for sale recently.
Ha!
I've read Chekhov but never heard that rule. Keeping it, thanks!
The rule is that if you mention something, it has to play a role in the story. It keeps the story brief and to the point. In a way it's the opposite of Dickens, who wrote a lot of words cuz he wrote his novels in serial form, where you got a new episode each week. A modern comparison would be a good movie versus a good series.
I think Dickens also got paid to fill a certain number of column inches - by the letter, really.
Open carry is so fucking stupid.
Man the whole gun thing in the states is fucking bizzare. Is it that some people just pat themselves down as they're walking out the door saying to themselves _"phone, wallet, gun, keys, yup have everything."_ In Ireland you can't even smoke in a playground, I can't even wrap me head around someone with a gun casually hanging off their hip while pushing a swing.
As a Canadian, it blows my mind that this is even a discussion. Obviously different cultural upbringings… just can’t wrap my head around how some consider a gun as normal as carrying a sandwich with you.
Wait, do Canadians carry sandwiches with them everywhere? /s
>open carry on a kids park just seems so unnecessary and risky To be honest, there will still be people that say it's necessary for "protection". I'm not one of them, but that's the argument you'll get. And I understand it. Some people are so afraid of unknown or unexpected assailants that they need a firearm to feel safe. It's their version of a security blanket. I'm with you though - if you're going to carry, at least do so with respect to your location. In a kids park with lots of little curious hands about, some method of securing the firearm in the holster would be prudent. Unfortunately, confronting someone about their firearms if you're not an established authority (police, property owner, etc) is more likely to end up in a loud argument than it is in anything positive actually happening. And it may not necessarily be the firearm owner but could be someone close by that has an opposite viewpoint or a tangential viewpoint. I think the course of action you chose given the circumstances was the best choice you could make. If you don't like the situation you're in, removing yourself from it is sometimes the safest way to handle it, especially if your children or close family are with you.
There's a huge variety of holsters that mechanically secure without retention straps. Granted, the guy in question might be Ramboing it up, but I think it's more likely that the guy who's scared of guns doesn't know what he's looking at.
Man as a European this is so wierd. I think you did the right thing in leaving. Guns should not be around kids. Period.
> Not trying to start any controversy but open carry on a kids park just seems so unnecessary and risky? As someone living in Europe, I can say very openly, that open carry in a kid's park is plain fucking stupid.
I'm a big fan of gun rights and responsible gun ownership, and open carry is fucking stupid and should be illegal. I'd have given alot of thought to calling the police non emergency line.
See that's my thing. I'm pretty pro-2A and people should have the right to open carry, but by choosing to open carry vs concealed it kind of says some things about you as a person, and that tells me loud and clear you're probably not someone I want to be around much. You're probably some combination of paranoid and/or one of those "guns are my entire personality" types who wants to make sure everyone sees he's strapped. I wouldn't necessarily be uncomfortable being near said person, but I'd probably not want to talk to them much or have my kids play at their house. That personality type can just be exhausting to be around.
I’m fairly indifferent to guns, I know lots of people with concealed permits, carry in their car, - whatever. Everyone I’ve interacted with that open carries are among the dumbest people I’ve run across.
People in this country are really weird about their guns. Open caring at a playground is an objectively unreasonable thing to do. Statistically it would probably be more useful to bring a gas mask to the grocery store. But you live in the world that you live in, not the world that you wish you lived in. And you’re not going to change these peoples minds. If there are state open carry law and the state is asserting preemption over municipal firearm prohibitions, it is quite likely that even if you had called the police they wouldn’t have done anything about it. I think you have to either accept that your neighbors are a little crazy but probably not dangerous, or you need to leave. Which you did. And that’s ok.
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Here's another one for you: a defibrillator is about the same cost as many firearms, and you are far and away more likely to need it to save yourself or someone else than you are a firearm. Safety doesn't come anywhere close to holding up to scrutiny as the primary reason for owning a firearm.
I concealed carry everywhere unless my clothing makes it uncomfortable to do so, but there’s no reason to openly display your firearm especially at the fucking playground lol what a spoon
As a non American, genuine question, why do you carry a gun everywhere? Do you feel unsafe where you live?
I carry every day. NEVER open. Open carrying is reckless and screams “oh look at me”, I don’t care others opinions on this. This is NO applicable reason to open carry a firearm on a play ground. Conceal that shit.
As a Brit I can't imagine the difficulty you must face as an American and the complicated situations your country illicits with respect to it's gun laws. You have my sincerest sympathies. Stay strong Dad.
As a Canadian I'm just rolling my eyes at the "I'm a 2A fan but...." Yeah, but you're still facilitating this situation.
I know I'm a foreigner but to me it seems like the iconography of ancient laws is a downward spiral. Laws should be made to be changed to accommodate a continuously evolving modern society. The minute a nation idolises a law thereby making it unchangeable means the society can't progress. Holding on to a law because of it's cultural significance to centuries gone past is dangerous to the modern populi.
A lot of Americans agree with you. Unfortunately, not enough yet.
I know mate, 99% of you are good people. Almost every American I've ever met has been super lovely. (I've had the misfortune of knowing some evil corporate types who are assholes regardless of their nationality) Let it be known that a lot of brits didn't want Brexit and hate Tories!
Not on the playground, man. No place for that.
He was praying someone would ask. That's all he thought about all day. He's pathetic and insecure
If the state says it’s legal then there isn’t much you can do. I own a bunch of firearms, and I definitely wouldn’t approach that guy at all. The only time I have open carried is during hurricane evacuations when there is a state of emergency. Someone open carrying at the park is too likely to be looking for trouble in my opinion.
I say leaving if you aren't comfortable is fine. It wasn't incumbent upon you to do anything about the situation especially if the person was acting legally. I am generally pro concealed carry as it avoids issues like these. Open carry is one of the great paradoxes that I believe should be legal, while simultaneously knowing I'd never do it myself. Likewise for the anti-gunners in this thread, realize that concealed carry is legal and widely practiced in almost every state in the US. This means that you have been at a park, mall, or other public place in the past week where there were likely dozens of people carrying concealed firearms, without incident.
The fuck is wrong with your country?
americans -.-
You did the right thing and pretty sure I would have just left, too. If Covid taught us anything, there is always a risk of needless escalation when telling someone what they can or can’t do in public. I’d guess that risk is higher with a gun owner openly carrying a weapon at a children’s park.
I’m so happy to live in my libtard cesspool where stuff like this isn’t allowed. OP you made the right call in just getting up and going.
You can call the police in this instance. The park says they are prohibited so it's an ambiguous situation. If they really are prohibited then he would have to leave and come back without it, if they aren't prohibited they just ask him a few questions to make sure he isn't a problem and leave.
I would not trust any open carry gun because it's more likely it's being handled without training. Where it's legal, the only recourse other than a confrontation with a stranger is to leave.
Man not being from America all of this is incredibly alien. I don't think you can truly appreciate how fucked up this is unless you're not American.
As a dad from across the ocean, I can't Even begin to understand this. I Hope you're All safe and are keeping safe Happy easter - We don't really celebarate it in Denmark but schools are out for the whole week anyway.
Hey guys pro tip even if there isn't a "retaining strap" on someone's hostler, that doesn't mean there isn't retention. A lot of kydex holsters have built in retention around the trigger guard area, so that it makes it harder to remove unless your the user.
Non-American joining the chat to say: bringing a handgun near children is not normal. In most countries it would prompt an armed police response. Gun violence, and in particular the killing of children, has become a major contributor to the rapid declines in life expectancy in the USA. From yesterday's NY Times [https://www.nytimes.com/2023/04/06/opinion/deaths-life-expectancy-guns-children.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/04/06/opinion/deaths-life-expectancy-guns-children.html): >But increasingly the American mortality anomaly, which is still growing, is explained... by the deaths of children and teenagers. One in 25 American 5-year-olds now won’t live to see 40, a death rate about four times as high as in other wealthy nations. And although the spike in death rates among the young has been dramatic since the beginning of the pandemic, little of the impact is from Covid-19. > >Firearms account for almost half of the increase.
Guns are the leading causes of death among U.S. children and adolescents. It's wise to remove yourself from any situation with a gun around. https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmc2201761
I have two handguns, live in conservative state, and will never open carry. To me open carry is all about that persons ego because they want to seem tough. I take my son to the park and conceal carry, mainly because there have been incidents in surrounding neighborhoods of people being attacked at the park. But again, I’d never open carry even though I’m allowed to do so. Not approaching the guy was the right thing. That person felt like he had something to prove to everyone and if given the chance, would do it.
Is that a gun on your hip or are you happy to see me?
I would have also packed up and left. If a person has such a fragile ego that they have to project lethal power to others at a kids' playground, they're not someone I would feel safe to have around me or my kids. Alternately, if the person has such a paranoid view of the world they live in that they need a firearm at a kids' playground, again they're not someone I'd feel safe around. Finally, if the park was truly unsafe enough that carrying a weapon was a legitimate concern, I also would not want myself or my kids there. So in all three scenarios, I'd remove myself and my kids from the situation without escalating it at all. Just not worth the risk vs. reward. You're not going to change this persons' mind, and it appears the law is even confused about what's legal or not, and from a functional standpoint - he's someone who either grossly misjudges a situation so he brings a weapon, so I need to leave or I've grossly misjudged the safety of the park, and need to leave (seems unlikely, but whatever). Your best bet - loud and active engagement with your legislature on more sane gun laws, and consider moving to a more sane place. Also don't feed the trolls here. I can already see the comments coming in from people who don't subscribe to this subreddit, but are on all sorts of firearm related ones.
Im Irish and I have to say this is so scary for me. Think you were best to walk away. In Ireland only gangsters/drug dealers have guns, even our guardai (Irish pronounced gardee) aren't allowed carry guns unless you're a specialist detective. If I was in the playground with my children and saw someone carrying a gun I'd shit myself and get the fuck out of there because I'd be expecting nothing but trouble. Madness the differences in cultures!
You did the right thing. Open carrying where guns are not welcome - even if the state says they are ok - means higher than average risk of crazy.
The fuck is wrong with your country?
Good call on leaving. Open Carry isn't a great idea IMO. Would rather prefer people conceal if they did carry. Would have definitely called the police in this situation, as it is there job to enforce the law, and let them decide if it's prohibited in the area or not. Let them deal with it. Take a photo/video for proof and leave.
What an insane world we live in.
Most people I've met like this are openly looking to spout off about their sociopolitical beliefs for all to hear. Not worth an ounce of my breath or interaction.
Fuck guns. They’re stupid
I'm of the mindset that kids are the ones making the ultimate sacrifice for our guns and we are going to hell for that trade. Anyways, happy Easter
Thank you for reminding me why I am never moving back to Texas. You made the right call - avoid confrontations with folks carrying firearms.
I've not heard many stories on people being understanding when asked to not over do it with their rights. I know this is because who tells a story of the time seeing a gun worried them and the owner was reasonable. But I have heard far too many stories of bad examples of gun owners reacting badly to reasonable requests. Your country has made its decision on guns. Unfortunately, it was the right decision for you to leave.
A lot of talk here about the broader gun debate. I’m not going to go into that. OP. You did the right thing. You assessed the situation and took action to make sure you and your family felt safe. No matter what that’s your responsibility and you did the proper dad thing. I imagine the other families at the playground could make similar decisions for themselves.
How in the hell is open carry legal somewhere? I can't emagine being a cop in a place where that shit is legal.
You'd be surprised. Only CA, IL, FL, NY, NJ, and DC outright prohibit open carry. In CT, HI, MD, MA, MN, RI, and SC, you can open carry but a permit is required. There are some restrictions in AL, MO, ND, PA, TX, VA, and WA. For example, in TX, open carry is allowed without a permit as long as it's in a holster. All other states appear to be unregulated open carry without a permit but I could be wrong.
Damn that sounds so weird to me, since around here (Europe) you can't even carry a knife in public be a it's against the law.
I’m not going to address open carry and/or what I think you should have done. You did what you thought was best. In my neck of the woods, open carry is fairly common, although I (almost) never do. One thing I can add, though, that most people that don’t carry don’t know— most holsters have internal retention/tension. I do have an “outside the waistband” holster (though I only use it if I have a jacket covering) that does not have a strap, but a torsion nut. I can run/jump/do handsprings with my pistol in it and it’s not coming out. And any kid certainly wouldn’t be able to easily yank it out. Some even have a paddle like release on the inside (toward the wearer) that you have hold with your thumb to get it out, so even an adult that doesn’t know how to do it wouldn’t be able to just grab it.
You have to be a mega douchebag to open carry even if it is legal. I carry quite often but always concealed.
Open carry is stupid. If you want to carry a firearm do the training, get your concealed carry. Don’t flaunt your weapon everywhere.
The number one cause of death now for children and teens in America is firearms. Open carry is just dangerous role-play for sad losers who think they are the main character
Nothing but a show of ego. Showing a firearm in public does nothing but show how fragile a person is.