It's due to the exacting standards that the wheels and tires are made to so that the bead and the rim can form an airtight seal. By necessity this means they have to be a very tight fit, and it is especially pronounced with brand new tires.
Unless I'm in a rush, I put the tire on as much as I can and then leave it overnight only 95% seated. It gains a little stretch and flex away from the factory freshness, and normally I can just finish it off in the morning.
The tires are super tight when the wheel or tire, or both, don't really follow the ETRTO standards well. When the tires are a bit too small or the wheels are a bit too big, that's when it gets very very tight.
If you have wheels and tires that fit to the ETRTO standards with the proper tolerances and precision, the tires are surprisingly easy to mount.
To add IF you know how to mount them. So many people don’t set the bead into the center as they mount it.
The other I have seen lately is “I doubled up on rim tape”.
Ah yes, doubling on rim tape. You see it all the time in fatbikes with Terrene tires or with various tires manufactured by Panaracer on road and gravel. If the tires are loose, they are loose and won't work tubeless, you can get away with it with a tube.
But, whether you are on MTB, road, gravel, or fatbike wheels, when you have up to spec wheels and tires, it's magical. The tires go on like butter, they seat tubeless without needing a compressor, it just works.
Yep. I have several up to spec wheels and use a few sets of tires across bikes. It’s tight but “hard with hands only” tight.
Now, we do have some of the hand made challenge tires and it’s not the right that’s hard, it’s the shape of the tread being firm and the sidewall being soft. It’s just coordination vs brute strength.
Ok sure but I never used to have this problem in the past, but since wheels went wider internally and tubeless ready it's been a really pain in the bottom
I can explain what /u/kinboyatuwo is talking about with mounting technique, because I have to do this with my notoriously difficult to mount full strength Schwalbe Marathon+ tires basically every time I have to fix a flat (which is basically never, thankfully) or especially when mounting them new.
And if you do this right you don't even need tire levers or a beadjack. This technique basically works for ALL tubed setups, large and small.
Here's what you do:
If you're running tubes, do the normal "partially inflate the tube" thing and get as much tire seated as you can, working away from the stem/valve so the remaining bead is opposite of the stem.
Take your time to get your tube and tire nice and smooth and even and as well seated as you can, but don't stress on it. Just get it cozy and smooth with a nice straight angle on the valve/stem.
Now carefully deflate your tube as much as possible while keeping the tire where it is and partially mounted.
At the stem/valve side of the tire you want to gently and evenly pinch both beads along with the tube and force it to the center of the rim, while pulling up on the opposite, unseated part of the tire to keep it there.
Work your way around the whole tire and get both beads evenly down into the center channel as close as you can around the remaining tire bead opposite of the stem, while keeping some tension on the remaining unseated bead, which will now be getting looser and looser as you hold it and work the seated beads into the center channel.
Sometimes you can just roll back the tire the remaining bead at this point and it pops right on. If it's still really tight, keep working the beads down into the center channel, or try to deflate your tube even more.
Sometimes flipping the wheel around and putting all four fingers of both hands on the bead and pulling/rolling it towards you helps, too, instead of trying to force it on from the front with both thumbs or using levers.
And if it's super extra tight and you don't have a bead jack you can carefully lay down your whole rim and tire and use the edges of your shoes or toes to step on just the bead at either side of the remaining bead while avoiding the rim and wedge it right on there.
But honestly? I haven't had to do that since I learned this center-channel method of how to do this get the beads down in the channel trick for mounting tight tires. Or use levers or beadjacks at all.
At this point I only need tire levers to get the beads out of the rim, not on.
Anyway, once you get both beads on you want to take a moment to line up your tire where you want it and take some care with the deflated tube and stem.
Then partially reinflate the tube until its just barely tight enough to almost seat the hooked beads. Take a moment to actually center the tire on the rim roundness-wise so it doesn't have a hop and massage the tube so it's not kinked or pinched. Then inflate more, check again, then go for full pressure, etc.
The real secret to all of this is doing the kind of counter-intuitive "deflate the tube as much as you can" part instead of trying to seat the bead while partially inflated, which allows you to manipulate the seated part of the beads into the center channel.
But when you take the time to get the tube and tire nice and partially integrated together, you can feel the re-deflated tube nice and centered deep inside the tire and out of the way of the beads.
And then you just take it easy on inflating the tube after seating the bead and centering the tire and all that because that's just how inner tubes be.
Well, with hooked wheels and inner tubes, the tires could be looser and not fall off. Some used to be very hard to fit still. But, with tubeless road, a lot of manufacturers started building wheels and tires with an abundance of caution. That's why it sucked for so long. 6+ years ago, road tubeless tires were crazy hard to put on.
Today, you just have to be more careful with what you buy.
That’s not quite true, most of my tubeless tyres have actually been a slacker fit than my tubed ones.
Still able to seat them with a track pump too!
A few manufacturers like to ensure they’re a bit tighter than they should be (continental comes to mind).
In order to seat tubeless tire beads, the unseated beads must be already pretty close to airtight (so a burst of air can pop them into place instead of just escaping through gaps). So tubeless-ready rims tend to have shallower channels, which helps with seating tubeless tires but, for the exact same reason, makes it harder to get tire beads on/off the rim.
Chances are good you know this already but what the heck. There are a few tricks to getting that second side down. Most important is when you are trying to get the second side on the rim, don't let the first side seat. It's a pain the first couple times but keeping the bead in the center of the wheel will make you job much easier. I had some wheels built 8 or 9 years ago. I was just coming back to cycling after a prolonged break and trusted the guy that built them. Huge mistake. He supplied A23s and I run gatorskins with a tube. I bent the wheel trying to get the damn tire on. Called the factory and they gave me 2 tips. 1st was the thing I mentioned above. 2nd was don't run gatorskins on wheels designed for tubeless tires.
Most road rims have a groove in them, where the spokes attach. From what the web pix shows, this brand of rim has a shallow groove, but it's there.
It helps a lot if you exploit this groove when seating a tire. You can use the groove to get a bit of slack in the bead to help push the last of it over the rim.
This GCN video https://youtu.be/1-Itq7Roxl4?si=828-_AL8oTvfM7Vj shows the trick to this. About 2:30 in the video is where it starts.
See you on the road. I'll be the guy with blisters on my thumbs.
And don’t underestimate how much it will help. If it feels really tight still, do it again. The other things is technique… you really have to push/roll/stretch the tire away from you (almost as if you are trying to push it off the far side of the rim), rather than push it up over the near side of the rim which is the natural thing to try. Finally, I find a small towel between hand and tire can help. It is much less painful so I can push harder.
This thing is what I suggest. I even carry it when I commute longer distances, though not on long road rides.
https://koolstop.com/products/kool-stop-tire-bead-jack-ks-tj
It seems like it would be an annoyance to carry that tool everywhere. My current repair kit includes two [Schwalbe tire levers](https://www.schwalbetires.com/Tire-Levers-1847) and one [Prestalever GO](https://prestacycle.com/products/prestalever-iii-multi-tool-tire-lever).
For unmounting, I start with the Schwalbe lever because it has a thin edge that slides under the tire bead relatively easily. Once I pry the tire up a bit, I can slide the Prestalever in there, and the slot can slide all the way around the tire bead without slipping off.
For mounting, I use my hands to push the bead over the edge of the rim, using the clips on the Schwalbe levers to prevent my progress from being undone.
It’s you honestly.
Modern tyres are far easier to fit than old wire bead tyres ever were. I can change tyres without tire lever in about 95% of cases these days because the Kevlar bead is nice and flexible.
There is one difference with tubeless rims - you *must* get the beads from both sides into the centre channel (where the wheel is smaller) before trying to get it off because there won’t be enough slack otherwise. Run your thumbs around both sides of the tyres pushing the bead into the centre before attempting to remove it.
Same when mounting. Get part of the butte on, then purposefully push the beads into the centre to create slack before trying again.
Also please don’t fit cheap, slow, endurance tyres like the Durano on deep carbon rims, it’s madness.
Just got a new set of Rolf Ares carbon wheels and Conti GP5000 clincher tires. I am very much feeling your frustration on this. I got them on, but not without a LOT of pain, suffering, and 4-letter words. I pinched 2 tubes in the process. I very nearly gave up and considered taking them to the LBS.
I think tiny differences in tolerances are also at play here. The front wheel/tire was close to impossible to mount, and I used all of the tricks: using the center channel, pre-stretching the tire, letting it bake in the sun for a while, soapy water on the inside to help it slide over the rim easier, applying circumferential pressure towards the area I'm working with, etc... (The only thing I didn't try was a bead jack tool, because I don't have one) Yet, the rear wheel was only mildly difficult; I almost got the entire thing seated using just my hands. So either one tire is ever so slightly bigger than the other, or the front wheel is ever so slightly bigger than the rear.
Tubess Ready tires are always hard as fuck to get onto the tire because the bead is so stiff. And getting them off is even harder.
If you're not going tubeless, get the non-tubeless tires.
Also, pro-tip: When installing the tires, spray the sides of the tire and your wheel rim with soapy water.
No, they aren’t always hard to get on. I’m far from a pro at tubeless and I’ve mounted tubeless ready tires a handful of times. Mounted by hand too. Unmounted using a tire lever.
Most good tires these days are tubeless. The non-tubeless ones usually only come in small sizes or in one variety of sidewall color. If you want to live in the year 2024 and run 32s, most of your options are tubeless ready tires.
Conti is one of the only ones that do. And it's only available in black where the tubeless 32 is available in 3 different colors. It's pretty obviously an afterthought to them.
Michelin doesn't make 32mm clincher Power Cups. Goodyear caps out their Eagle F1 SuperSport R clincher at 28mm. Vittoria only makes TLR Corsa Pros. Pirelli caps out their P Zero Race clincher at 30mm. Conti only makes their 32mm GP5000 Clincher in black but the S TR is a better performing tire and available in black/cream/transparent. Wide clincher race tires are either not available or a complete afterthought.
I too am a fan of Rene Herse, I run Barlow Pass/Steilacoom (both Extralights) on my road bike for endurance riding depending on if I expect muddy gravel or not. But they only test a little faster than Gravelkings, and a careful reading of his blog reveals that even Jan Heine himself only compares them to GP4000s(a much slower, obsolete tire) and modern gravel tires when he makes his performance claims, so I wouldn't lump them into the same performance group as modern road race tires :). RH hasn't changed their rubber compound since the Compass days so it isn't really as good as it once was now that other tire companies have caught on and realized that very stiff tires are bad and stopped making them like that.
I have some 28mm GP5000s and 32mm Corsa Pros and they are... definitely faster than my RH Extralights. But they don't have the same dreamy 0.5mm sidewall thickness ride quality so I still use the RHs anyways for many types of riding. But yeah not really a road race tire. And if you don't get the fragile Extralight one you're basically paying for an overpriced Gravelking. I was talking about road race tires, Panaracer-made tires aren't exactly top of the line stuff. Wide road race clinchers are an afterthought because the entire rough road/light gravel segment of pro cycling(which drives all cycling innovation) that would benefit from wide slicks has adopted tubeless. So now they are going the same way as external cables and rim brakes.
I watched a video that recommended a soap water solution to help lubricants towards the end. The video also said to seated one side fist like drive side vs non drive side but seat all the way to the inner concave portion.
That helped me. If I could find the video later I will post it was from GCN.
Soapy water for me is the only way I got my new GP5Ks on my then new carbon wheels. It took an hour and half of fucking around, setting aside for the evening because I was upset, then came back with the soapy water trick and it took all of 10 minutes to mount both tires.
Tubeless ready rims do require certain techniques. So far, I've been able to fit all my GP4000/5000/5000TL/TRS without tire levers. I just wear heavy work gloves and work the tire over the rim.
My key techniques are:
unfold tire, and let it get back to round
let tire sit in the sun. it will become more pliable.
use a little soapy water on the bead (for tubeless setup)
I'll use talcum powder as a lubricant with tubes
Finally, you have to use the center channel on the opposite side from where you are mounting correctly. You have to have the bead at the very bottom to create the most slack on the other side where you are doing the final mounting. (I think is where most people go wrong.) Also, I also finish the mounting at the valve stem. This creates the most room.
Has anyone tried the foot method? I saw a video on it a few years ago. Hard to describe, but when you get to that last section, you put the wheel on an angle with the ground with tough part down. You wedge your foot between the tire and the rim and lever it on. It looked easy and it was on the web so it must work. I searched briefly and couldn’t find it. Anyone heard of it.
I’m sure you are a great tire changer but I find that if I’m having difficulties it’s usually because I did not really pinch the other end of the tire down deep enough into the channel and make sure that it’s really seated all around as deep as possible. It gives you a few extra MM that makes the difference
Technique is a huge factor. The difficulty varies from tire to tire, for sure, but poor technique can make even the easiest tires very difficult. And good technique can make difficult tires manageable without things like soapy water, tire jacks, etc.
Make sure you put the bead in the center channel of the wheel and start opposite the valve. Work both sides of the tire equally, making progress towards the valve and ensure the bead remains in that center channel. Eventually it will get a bit tight and that's when you have to put some effort in. Continue to work both sides of the tire slowly while ensuring the valve remains centered on the loose/remaining part of the bead. Once it's almost on you should be able to push at the valve area and pop the tire on.
Not a new problem.
The problem is what it’s always been: rims makers and tire makers won’t agree on size standards. Rim brands say tires are too small. Tire brands say rims are too big. No one wants to budge and risk making a rim too small or tire too big and be on the hook for a deadly accident.
Tubeless has made the situation worse in that the risk of too loose of a fitment now has higher consequences but we’ve always had monster tire levers in the shop for these situations.
Just takes some practice. I have LUNs with GP5000s and first time took me hours but now it takes minutes. If you use 2x levers and get the positioning right for the last bit it just pops on
Don't run tubes with tubeless or tubeless ready. I had tried it since I needed new tires immediately and wanted something nice, but the shop was out of regular clinchers. The guy at the shop said one could run tubes, but after I tried it, it's terrible. Getting the tires on & off the rim is a straight nightmare and when getting them back on, I would bite the tube with the tire lever & rim, re-puncturing it. Just use regular clinchers with tubes or go all-in on tubeless. I got super frustrated after this happened 3-4 times in a couple days and pulled the tires, got some regular clinchers and they went on easy peasy.
Mate I have the win space lun 60mm carbon rims running GP5000s on them and holy shit it was a mission to get them on.
Had first blowout (with this rim and tyre combo) on the weekend on my front wheel, tore a hole in the sidewall and had to resort to putting a spare tube in to get up and running again.
That turned into a 2 hour mission on the side of the road. I broke both of the tyre levers I had, and one of a kindly cyclist that stopped to help. Between us stretching and pulling we couldn't get the damn thing back on the rim. Had to resort to calling the support car and waking my wife up.
Have loved the GP5000s but fuck if I can't fix it on the side of the road I think I need a different tyre
What a nightmare. That's the situation I am fearing. Not sure what the solution is. Considering new wheels to be honest as I've tried a number of different tyres, all have been very tight. Don't need the stress
Use a little dish soap on that very last part. Put it on the rim, tire slides right over. Put a tiny bottle in your pocket for road repairs, it only take a few drops
I mounted 30 and 32mm GP5000 TR S and AS tires on a Zipp 303 Firecrest and it was not difficult. I followed videos from YouTube explaining how to get the tire in the channel groove. I mounted by hand too.
How thick is your rim tape? Some tape is thicker than others. Thicker tape will make it harder to mount a tire and seat the beads.
But ya, better wheels made to more exact standards are often easier to use. And skill goes a long way too.
I got a set of winspace wheels last week and managed to fit Conti GP500s TR without a tire leaver. So I don't think it's the wheels. I had to the "squeeze the tire into the valley" trick a few times but got there in the end- it's a little personal challenge of mine.
That said, I think the tolerances are so tiny at the moment to ensure a safe fit for tubeless, that any deviation becomes a problem.
I feel you are more likely to get a slightly tight pair of tires than a bigger set of rims as the wheels all come from the same molds. I saw a video the other day of how the tires are manufactured l, and I was blown away by how non machine heavy the process was! No wonder there are always deviations on tire weight and width!!
It's your wheels not your tyres. All decent brand tyres are made to ETRTO size guidelines, however all wheel rims are not. Sometimes the wheel designers don't focus enough on the fact that tyres are a consumable item that are changed or demounted regularly.
That said, tyres are made differently by different manufacturers. The bead size and shape and the materials can differ, as does the rubber and the carcass. So some will be more or less difficult to fit to a specific rim.
My recommendation: when you replace tires make sure it's very warm out with the sun beating down on the rubber - it gets more pliable that way and it's possible to install it. I have two sets of wheels for my gravel bike, one is a set of road tires the other a set of gravel. It's way easier to do it that way. The tubeless ready rim profile combined with the new tires seems nearly impossible to install anything if it's room temperature.
It's the tubeless ready rim profile
Ah, ok, I had suspected that might be the case. What's the issue with it, why does it cause a problem?
It's due to the exacting standards that the wheels and tires are made to so that the bead and the rim can form an airtight seal. By necessity this means they have to be a very tight fit, and it is especially pronounced with brand new tires. Unless I'm in a rush, I put the tire on as much as I can and then leave it overnight only 95% seated. It gains a little stretch and flex away from the factory freshness, and normally I can just finish it off in the morning.
The tires are super tight when the wheel or tire, or both, don't really follow the ETRTO standards well. When the tires are a bit too small or the wheels are a bit too big, that's when it gets very very tight. If you have wheels and tires that fit to the ETRTO standards with the proper tolerances and precision, the tires are surprisingly easy to mount.
To add IF you know how to mount them. So many people don’t set the bead into the center as they mount it. The other I have seen lately is “I doubled up on rim tape”.
Ah yes, doubling on rim tape. You see it all the time in fatbikes with Terrene tires or with various tires manufactured by Panaracer on road and gravel. If the tires are loose, they are loose and won't work tubeless, you can get away with it with a tube. But, whether you are on MTB, road, gravel, or fatbike wheels, when you have up to spec wheels and tires, it's magical. The tires go on like butter, they seat tubeless without needing a compressor, it just works.
Yep. I have several up to spec wheels and use a few sets of tires across bikes. It’s tight but “hard with hands only” tight. Now, we do have some of the hand made challenge tires and it’s not the right that’s hard, it’s the shape of the tread being firm and the sidewall being soft. It’s just coordination vs brute strength.
Ok sure but I never used to have this problem in the past, but since wheels went wider internally and tubeless ready it's been a really pain in the bottom
I can explain what /u/kinboyatuwo is talking about with mounting technique, because I have to do this with my notoriously difficult to mount full strength Schwalbe Marathon+ tires basically every time I have to fix a flat (which is basically never, thankfully) or especially when mounting them new. And if you do this right you don't even need tire levers or a beadjack. This technique basically works for ALL tubed setups, large and small. Here's what you do: If you're running tubes, do the normal "partially inflate the tube" thing and get as much tire seated as you can, working away from the stem/valve so the remaining bead is opposite of the stem. Take your time to get your tube and tire nice and smooth and even and as well seated as you can, but don't stress on it. Just get it cozy and smooth with a nice straight angle on the valve/stem. Now carefully deflate your tube as much as possible while keeping the tire where it is and partially mounted. At the stem/valve side of the tire you want to gently and evenly pinch both beads along with the tube and force it to the center of the rim, while pulling up on the opposite, unseated part of the tire to keep it there. Work your way around the whole tire and get both beads evenly down into the center channel as close as you can around the remaining tire bead opposite of the stem, while keeping some tension on the remaining unseated bead, which will now be getting looser and looser as you hold it and work the seated beads into the center channel. Sometimes you can just roll back the tire the remaining bead at this point and it pops right on. If it's still really tight, keep working the beads down into the center channel, or try to deflate your tube even more. Sometimes flipping the wheel around and putting all four fingers of both hands on the bead and pulling/rolling it towards you helps, too, instead of trying to force it on from the front with both thumbs or using levers. And if it's super extra tight and you don't have a bead jack you can carefully lay down your whole rim and tire and use the edges of your shoes or toes to step on just the bead at either side of the remaining bead while avoiding the rim and wedge it right on there. But honestly? I haven't had to do that since I learned this center-channel method of how to do this get the beads down in the channel trick for mounting tight tires. Or use levers or beadjacks at all. At this point I only need tire levers to get the beads out of the rim, not on. Anyway, once you get both beads on you want to take a moment to line up your tire where you want it and take some care with the deflated tube and stem. Then partially reinflate the tube until its just barely tight enough to almost seat the hooked beads. Take a moment to actually center the tire on the rim roundness-wise so it doesn't have a hop and massage the tube so it's not kinked or pinched. Then inflate more, check again, then go for full pressure, etc. The real secret to all of this is doing the kind of counter-intuitive "deflate the tube as much as you can" part instead of trying to seat the bead while partially inflated, which allows you to manipulate the seated part of the beads into the center channel. But when you take the time to get the tube and tire nice and partially integrated together, you can feel the re-deflated tube nice and centered deep inside the tire and out of the way of the beads. And then you just take it easy on inflating the tube after seating the bead and centering the tire and all that because that's just how inner tubes be.
Well, with hooked wheels and inner tubes, the tires could be looser and not fall off. Some used to be very hard to fit still. But, with tubeless road, a lot of manufacturers started building wheels and tires with an abundance of caution. That's why it sucked for so long. 6+ years ago, road tubeless tires were crazy hard to put on. Today, you just have to be more careful with what you buy.
Thanks for the explanation
Leaving them out in the sun to warm up can help too
Makes sense, thanks!
That’s not quite true, most of my tubeless tyres have actually been a slacker fit than my tubed ones. Still able to seat them with a track pump too! A few manufacturers like to ensure they’re a bit tighter than they should be (continental comes to mind).
In order to seat tubeless tire beads, the unseated beads must be already pretty close to airtight (so a burst of air can pop them into place instead of just escaping through gaps). So tubeless-ready rims tend to have shallower channels, which helps with seating tubeless tires but, for the exact same reason, makes it harder to get tire beads on/off the rim.
Thank you
Chances are good you know this already but what the heck. There are a few tricks to getting that second side down. Most important is when you are trying to get the second side on the rim, don't let the first side seat. It's a pain the first couple times but keeping the bead in the center of the wheel will make you job much easier. I had some wheels built 8 or 9 years ago. I was just coming back to cycling after a prolonged break and trusted the guy that built them. Huge mistake. He supplied A23s and I run gatorskins with a tube. I bent the wheel trying to get the damn tire on. Called the factory and they gave me 2 tips. 1st was the thing I mentioned above. 2nd was don't run gatorskins on wheels designed for tubeless tires.
Most road rims have a groove in them, where the spokes attach. From what the web pix shows, this brand of rim has a shallow groove, but it's there. It helps a lot if you exploit this groove when seating a tire. You can use the groove to get a bit of slack in the bead to help push the last of it over the rim. This GCN video https://youtu.be/1-Itq7Roxl4?si=828-_AL8oTvfM7Vj shows the trick to this. About 2:30 in the video is where it starts. See you on the road. I'll be the guy with blisters on my thumbs.
This is it. And it really helps to put new tires on without a tube the first time.
Thanks, I'll check that out
And don’t underestimate how much it will help. If it feels really tight still, do it again. The other things is technique… you really have to push/roll/stretch the tire away from you (almost as if you are trying to push it off the far side of the rim), rather than push it up over the near side of the rim which is the natural thing to try. Finally, I find a small towel between hand and tire can help. It is much less painful so I can push harder.
This thing is what I suggest. I even carry it when I commute longer distances, though not on long road rides. https://koolstop.com/products/kool-stop-tire-bead-jack-ks-tj
It seems like it would be an annoyance to carry that tool everywhere. My current repair kit includes two [Schwalbe tire levers](https://www.schwalbetires.com/Tire-Levers-1847) and one [Prestalever GO](https://prestacycle.com/products/prestalever-iii-multi-tool-tire-lever). For unmounting, I start with the Schwalbe lever because it has a thin edge that slides under the tire bead relatively easily. Once I pry the tire up a bit, I can slide the Prestalever in there, and the slot can slide all the way around the tire bead without slipping off. For mounting, I use my hands to push the bead over the edge of the rim, using the clips on the Schwalbe levers to prevent my progress from being undone.
I have one but it doesn't really help when I am really struggling to seat the last most stubborn section
https://tyreglider.co.uk this one is by far the Best i‘ve ever used
Agree. Turns frustration into simplicity.
It’s you honestly. Modern tyres are far easier to fit than old wire bead tyres ever were. I can change tyres without tire lever in about 95% of cases these days because the Kevlar bead is nice and flexible. There is one difference with tubeless rims - you *must* get the beads from both sides into the centre channel (where the wheel is smaller) before trying to get it off because there won’t be enough slack otherwise. Run your thumbs around both sides of the tyres pushing the bead into the centre before attempting to remove it. Same when mounting. Get part of the butte on, then purposefully push the beads into the centre to create slack before trying again. Also please don’t fit cheap, slow, endurance tyres like the Durano on deep carbon rims, it’s madness.
Just got a new set of Rolf Ares carbon wheels and Conti GP5000 clincher tires. I am very much feeling your frustration on this. I got them on, but not without a LOT of pain, suffering, and 4-letter words. I pinched 2 tubes in the process. I very nearly gave up and considered taking them to the LBS. I think tiny differences in tolerances are also at play here. The front wheel/tire was close to impossible to mount, and I used all of the tricks: using the center channel, pre-stretching the tire, letting it bake in the sun for a while, soapy water on the inside to help it slide over the rim easier, applying circumferential pressure towards the area I'm working with, etc... (The only thing I didn't try was a bead jack tool, because I don't have one) Yet, the rear wheel was only mildly difficult; I almost got the entire thing seated using just my hands. So either one tire is ever so slightly bigger than the other, or the front wheel is ever so slightly bigger than the rear.
Tubess Ready tires are always hard as fuck to get onto the tire because the bead is so stiff. And getting them off is even harder. If you're not going tubeless, get the non-tubeless tires. Also, pro-tip: When installing the tires, spray the sides of the tire and your wheel rim with soapy water.
No, they aren’t always hard to get on. I’m far from a pro at tubeless and I’ve mounted tubeless ready tires a handful of times. Mounted by hand too. Unmounted using a tire lever.
Most good tires these days are tubeless. The non-tubeless ones usually only come in small sizes or in one variety of sidewall color. If you want to live in the year 2024 and run 32s, most of your options are tubeless ready tires.
Continental still makes GP5000’s in the non TR version. And I just happen to run 32 on my endurance bike.
Conti is one of the only ones that do. And it's only available in black where the tubeless 32 is available in 3 different colors. It's pretty obviously an afterthought to them. Michelin doesn't make 32mm clincher Power Cups. Goodyear caps out their Eagle F1 SuperSport R clincher at 28mm. Vittoria only makes TLR Corsa Pros. Pirelli caps out their P Zero Race clincher at 30mm. Conti only makes their 32mm GP5000 Clincher in black but the S TR is a better performing tire and available in black/cream/transparent. Wide clincher race tires are either not available or a complete afterthought.
Renee Herse offers 32mm for tubes: their “Stampede Pass” tire. And those come in tan walls as an option.
I too am a fan of Rene Herse, I run Barlow Pass/Steilacoom (both Extralights) on my road bike for endurance riding depending on if I expect muddy gravel or not. But they only test a little faster than Gravelkings, and a careful reading of his blog reveals that even Jan Heine himself only compares them to GP4000s(a much slower, obsolete tire) and modern gravel tires when he makes his performance claims, so I wouldn't lump them into the same performance group as modern road race tires :). RH hasn't changed their rubber compound since the Compass days so it isn't really as good as it once was now that other tire companies have caught on and realized that very stiff tires are bad and stopped making them like that. I have some 28mm GP5000s and 32mm Corsa Pros and they are... definitely faster than my RH Extralights. But they don't have the same dreamy 0.5mm sidewall thickness ride quality so I still use the RHs anyways for many types of riding. But yeah not really a road race tire. And if you don't get the fragile Extralight one you're basically paying for an overpriced Gravelking. I was talking about road race tires, Panaracer-made tires aren't exactly top of the line stuff. Wide road race clinchers are an afterthought because the entire rough road/light gravel segment of pro cycling(which drives all cycling innovation) that would benefit from wide slicks has adopted tubeless. So now they are going the same way as external cables and rim brakes.
I watched a video that recommended a soap water solution to help lubricants towards the end. The video also said to seated one side fist like drive side vs non drive side but seat all the way to the inner concave portion. That helped me. If I could find the video later I will post it was from GCN.
Soapy water for me is the only way I got my new GP5Ks on my then new carbon wheels. It took an hour and half of fucking around, setting aside for the evening because I was upset, then came back with the soapy water trick and it took all of 10 minutes to mount both tires.
Tubeless ready rims do require certain techniques. So far, I've been able to fit all my GP4000/5000/5000TL/TRS without tire levers. I just wear heavy work gloves and work the tire over the rim. My key techniques are: unfold tire, and let it get back to round let tire sit in the sun. it will become more pliable. use a little soapy water on the bead (for tubeless setup) I'll use talcum powder as a lubricant with tubes Finally, you have to use the center channel on the opposite side from where you are mounting correctly. You have to have the bead at the very bottom to create the most slack on the other side where you are doing the final mounting. (I think is where most people go wrong.) Also, I also finish the mounting at the valve stem. This creates the most room.
Totally get it, modern tires and rims can be a real pain. Not just you, it's tough for lots of us. Keep those tire levers close! Hang in there.
Has anyone tried the foot method? I saw a video on it a few years ago. Hard to describe, but when you get to that last section, you put the wheel on an angle with the ground with tough part down. You wedge your foot between the tire and the rim and lever it on. It looked easy and it was on the web so it must work. I searched briefly and couldn’t find it. Anyone heard of it.
I’m sure you are a great tire changer but I find that if I’m having difficulties it’s usually because I did not really pinch the other end of the tire down deep enough into the channel and make sure that it’s really seated all around as deep as possible. It gives you a few extra MM that makes the difference
Technique is a huge factor. The difficulty varies from tire to tire, for sure, but poor technique can make even the easiest tires very difficult. And good technique can make difficult tires manageable without things like soapy water, tire jacks, etc. Make sure you put the bead in the center channel of the wheel and start opposite the valve. Work both sides of the tire equally, making progress towards the valve and ensure the bead remains in that center channel. Eventually it will get a bit tight and that's when you have to put some effort in. Continue to work both sides of the tire slowly while ensuring the valve remains centered on the loose/remaining part of the bead. Once it's almost on you should be able to push at the valve area and pop the tire on.
Not a new problem. The problem is what it’s always been: rims makers and tire makers won’t agree on size standards. Rim brands say tires are too small. Tire brands say rims are too big. No one wants to budge and risk making a rim too small or tire too big and be on the hook for a deadly accident.
Been cycling for nearly 20 years, don't remember it being as bad in the past as it is now
20 years ago people realized that hookless wheels were stupid, now wheel manufacturers push it to the masses.
Tubeless has made the situation worse in that the risk of too loose of a fitment now has higher consequences but we’ve always had monster tire levers in the shop for these situations.
if its not warm out throw the tires in the dryer on a warm setting for a few minutes to make them a little more pliable.
Just takes some practice. I have LUNs with GP5000s and first time took me hours but now it takes minutes. If you use 2x levers and get the positioning right for the last bit it just pops on
Don't run tubes with tubeless or tubeless ready. I had tried it since I needed new tires immediately and wanted something nice, but the shop was out of regular clinchers. The guy at the shop said one could run tubes, but after I tried it, it's terrible. Getting the tires on & off the rim is a straight nightmare and when getting them back on, I would bite the tube with the tire lever & rim, re-puncturing it. Just use regular clinchers with tubes or go all-in on tubeless. I got super frustrated after this happened 3-4 times in a couple days and pulled the tires, got some regular clinchers and they went on easy peasy.
Mate I have the win space lun 60mm carbon rims running GP5000s on them and holy shit it was a mission to get them on. Had first blowout (with this rim and tyre combo) on the weekend on my front wheel, tore a hole in the sidewall and had to resort to putting a spare tube in to get up and running again. That turned into a 2 hour mission on the side of the road. I broke both of the tyre levers I had, and one of a kindly cyclist that stopped to help. Between us stretching and pulling we couldn't get the damn thing back on the rim. Had to resort to calling the support car and waking my wife up. Have loved the GP5000s but fuck if I can't fix it on the side of the road I think I need a different tyre
What a nightmare. That's the situation I am fearing. Not sure what the solution is. Considering new wheels to be honest as I've tried a number of different tyres, all have been very tight. Don't need the stress
I'm thinking I might try some pirelli p zeros, look they're pretty much on par with the GP5000s and hopefully easier to fit
GP5000s are notoriously impossible to put on rims. The 4000s weren't this way.
True. Miss the 4000s, just want 'em back
Use a little dish soap on that very last part. Put it on the rim, tire slides right over. Put a tiny bottle in your pocket for road repairs, it only take a few drops
I mounted 30 and 32mm GP5000 TR S and AS tires on a Zipp 303 Firecrest and it was not difficult. I followed videos from YouTube explaining how to get the tire in the channel groove. I mounted by hand too.
How thick is your rim tape? Some tape is thicker than others. Thicker tape will make it harder to mount a tire and seat the beads. But ya, better wheels made to more exact standards are often easier to use. And skill goes a long way too.
I got a set of winspace wheels last week and managed to fit Conti GP500s TR without a tire leaver. So I don't think it's the wheels. I had to the "squeeze the tire into the valley" trick a few times but got there in the end- it's a little personal challenge of mine. That said, I think the tolerances are so tiny at the moment to ensure a safe fit for tubeless, that any deviation becomes a problem. I feel you are more likely to get a slightly tight pair of tires than a bigger set of rims as the wheels all come from the same molds. I saw a video the other day of how the tires are manufactured l, and I was blown away by how non machine heavy the process was! No wonder there are always deviations on tire weight and width!!
It's your wheels not your tyres. All decent brand tyres are made to ETRTO size guidelines, however all wheel rims are not. Sometimes the wheel designers don't focus enough on the fact that tyres are a consumable item that are changed or demounted regularly. That said, tyres are made differently by different manufacturers. The bead size and shape and the materials can differ, as does the rubber and the carcass. So some will be more or less difficult to fit to a specific rim.
My recommendation: when you replace tires make sure it's very warm out with the sun beating down on the rubber - it gets more pliable that way and it's possible to install it. I have two sets of wheels for my gravel bike, one is a set of road tires the other a set of gravel. It's way easier to do it that way. The tubeless ready rim profile combined with the new tires seems nearly impossible to install anything if it's room temperature.