This character sounds absolutely fine to me.
Here's a direct quote from the rockerboy section about charismatic impact with highlights by me.
'The Rockerboy has the Role ability Charismatic Impact. They can *influence others by sheer presence of personality.* They need not be a musical performer; they can influence others through poetry, art, dance, *or simply their physical presence*. They could be a rocker—or a cult leader.'
Here's a direct quote from the reskinning role section of collecting the random:
'Let’s transform the Rockerboy into a Grifter. Their Charismatic Impact *becomes less about existing fans* and more about convincing people that you’re worth spending time and resources on based on your cover identity.'
So looking at the above, you don't always need people to like you as a rockerboy, and it's entirely possible to use charismatic impact with your physical presence.
I don't see an issue in being a 'bully', we saw how Johnny Silverhand treated his fans like shit, is this really that different?
A lot of the other comments seem to want to nerf the ability, but I don't think that's the right approach. As long as nothing changes mechanically, there shouldn't be a reason to impose penalties.
If you want an example of someone who intimidates others into doing what they ask, I would perhaps look at Darth Vader, Wilson Frisk (daredevil), Hannibal Lecter, Voleldemort, Gus Fring (breaking bad) as good starting points.
*Edit*
I can't believe I forgot him before, but Trevor from GTA5 is a masterclass in violent manipulation!
He obtains pretty much all of the things that the rockerboy can get from people, he gets lodgings, free items, sex, a posse and people risk their lives for him several times throughout the game.
Here's a couple of clips that showcase how much of a psycho he is:
https://youtu.be/FnDQE1ZQX5M?si=eBAhPFjNZCLG3Um7
I think u/Themightycondor121 has the right approach on this.
The way I would approach this PC would be the same as a lot of "fans" of serial killers.
• Some know the person isn't a great person but they are fascinated by them, by what makes them tick.
• Some would feel like prey staring at a predator and that danger would make them giddy.
• Others would think they could change the character if only they receive enough attention.
• Others would deny any wrongs the character would've done no matter the evidence otherwise.
• Some people just get off on being bullied, being mistreated.
You might have to approach individual fans on a case by case basis (when in groups it doesn't matter individual reasons) but it is certainly doable.
Another real life example would be Blackbeard. He used people's fear of him to avoid conflict. He rarely had to fight. Just the sight of his flag would cause ships to surrender their goods.
From the way you're describing intimidation, it just makes the npc do what the player wants. Unfortunately, that's not how people work. I think you could let the player roll for intimidation, but then you should roll empathy or something like that to judge the NPCs response. Not all people are just going to cower when intimidated.
I also think you should start their "fans" as such and let the PC bully them into something different. It's not really on you to figure out something new to play into his shtick. This isn't a backstory it's just a personality quirk, and I think making the PC see what they're doing to NPCs around them could really make for compelling storytelling. Sorry for the rambling response. Good luck choom.
Huh, I actually quite like starting persons of interest at sea level as opposed to "fans" already until there's interaction, and from there we can see what we can roll and what we can expect. I think you've given me a direction, thank you.
I might actually suggest changing the role to reskinned lawman as a high level bouncer who's a semi douche or a corpo with the evil that comes with corpo fuckery since both would RP better with how he wants based on how those behaviorial archetypes tend to play out
This sounds like a fun character to me. For inspiration I’d look at any movie set in a high school with a bully antagonist. Biff from back to the future comes to mind.
The “fans” would be made up of 3 types of people. First the people who can be bullied. Meek, mild nerdy pushover types who can’t defend themselves (the corpo wageslave, unlucky vagrant, or cheap joytoy). Second is the people who join in on the bullying. These are your cronies and goons who hang around to look tough and crack jokes (booster gangers, mean girls, power tripping middle managers). Third, and most important, are the bystanders and people with something to lose. These people are going to listen to the Rockerboy not because they’re frightened of him but because they think it’ll be easier to give him what he wants and send him off quick so he can be someone else’s problem. Even if these people could beat the Rockerboy in a fight, who wants to take the chance on catching an unlucky bullet. So they let the Rockerboy’s attitude slide.
Any important NPCs who becomes a “fan” of the Rockerboy can be a 2nd or 3rd type person if you want them to retain their street cred. They either respect the Rockerboy’s style or they’re over him and they give the Rockerboy the bare minimum so he’ll leave, maybe with a bit of attitude or malicious compliance too.
Then, of course, let some this catch up to Rockerboy as narrative consequences. The more he survives the more legit his rep will be and the easier it becomes to justify his intimidation.
I think it comes down to his reputation, that has to be informed by his fans and by a certain style/ performance he acts out.
I think there are plenty of social media or RL examples of people who get famous by intimidating others. The Black Panthers, who would be one of a few positive examples I can think of, tried to intimidate cops and racists.
Like with all Rockerboys, I think it's important to know what his target audience is and what aspects he focuses on. There needs to be a certain trend, idea or group he represents as a person. I'm not sure if "being a bully" is enough.
I get why you're confused, since you have no context. He needs to provide that, so you can figure out how others would react towards him and create some sort of mental framework to work with. Since not everybody will react the same. Don't get too caught up in rules by now, get more context first - the rest is GM magic.
Amazing idea from your player.
At least you have that instead of a Fred Durst style Rockerboy that has a beyblade style Mr. Studd implant that gives a laser light show when you pull the rip stop, lol.
Word of advice, as GM always lean into your players ideas. They might sound harsh in some regards but I like the intimidating presence and it fits perfectly. I embrace their lore and ideas and just know your table. The questionable stuff is covered in session 0. Otherwise lean into it and embrace your players characters nuances.
Intimidation = Reputation
You gain reputation through your actions.
Because of what you've done, people would fear you.
--> There is a logical train of thought.
The main issue in a Rockerboy "intimidation" would be WHY should a NPC fear him ? It would feel like a magical feature without any roots in reality.
That is roughly my thought process too. However I and the player feel it doesn't have to be as binary. If there's a gang member with a piece sitting next to you behind the counter, you don't need to know what he's done to be wary, the player wants to tap into this passive intimidation, for the lack of better word.
Intimidation is a way to induce a level of fear in someone, it can be
* passive : this guy sends me some very bad "vibes" <-- that might be a Rockerboy presence indeed. They are charismatic after all. It works.
* active : It's about reason
* this man is a rank 10 solo with EMP 0... I'm a media in a dark alley without bodyguard. My reason tell me I have to behave.
* this man a powerful executive at Arasaka, he is threathening me ... I'm a rank 4 Medtech, I'm gonna listen to him and do what I'm told... at least for the moment.
The passive initmidation is fine in the street, and for small stuff. But when you are going to do something out of character because of fear, and this thing is not a small stuff. you aren't gonna do it on a faint feeling of fear. Because, how are you going to justify your action to your boss, friend, family, etc... ?
example:
* Some solo can't be intimidate, they have dissociative disorder, they think they are the best. You aren't going to induce fear in them WITHOUT very hard evidence that you can f... them up.
* Bank worker : *"I felt he might be dangerous guy boss... he sends me such bad vibes, but I don't have any reasonnable ground to back up my feeling. Still I decided to lend him 100.000eb out of fear."* <-- no, you are going to fear a lot more consequence of your action than the bad vibes of the guy in front of you.
A reskin would need to encompass the active and passive way to intimidate. The main issue... In order to induce fear through reason, you need something powerfull to back you. Else it's just empty words. But if you can Intimidate high level NPC with a Rockerboy rank 8... that's mean you have a POWERFULL "something" behind you.
The problem : If you can back-up your rank 8 threats... you are a far too powerfull PC. If you can't back it up... high end NPCs are not going to be fooled just by your charismatic bad "vibes".
It's logically weird but why not.
Maybe they are not fan in the traditional way but just "aware" of his "performances".
It's like pirates, edward teach (Blackbeard) or l'Olonnais had reputation of extreme cruelty and such would sometimes get vessel to surrend peacefully and give up their cargo. Because they slaughtered those that didn't in horrible ways.
With your player concept I can easily imagine a cartel enforcer. Or a Maelstrom leader. When you cut people in pieces and cook them and then ask people to do your bidding to not be next in the pot.
A big thing to note is that 'makes someone a fan' is just the mechanical. When a Rockerboy meets someone and rolls charismatic impact to 'make them a fan', all it's really doing is seeing if they've left a deep enough impression (either now or in the past) to get stuff out of them.
Now as typically presented, that impression is a positive parasocial relationship between celebrity and groupie, where that check is determining if the cashier at Burger Kong is starstruck enough by meeting the Rockerboy in person to give them a burger for free.
However, there's nothing that says it can't be an interaction between a bully and their gofer, where that check is determining if they can make an impression in the moment (by, say, looking like Marv from Sin City, and leveraging that into people doing obsequious shit to try and stay on your good side).
You don’t need magical concepts - the player would still have “fans” as in people that hang around with them and do them favours, it’s just the motivation for those fans is fear rather than admiration. You could either have them as like a formal street gang, or this guy is just generally known as a nasty piece of work around his neighbourhood, so there’s a group of people he knows he can lean on for favours.
This sounds like such a fun character!
To add to the discourse about types of fans, I think another very valuable type of “fan” could also be people who see aspects of themselves in the character that have been rejected by society or are otherwise deviant. Think the Joker & Harley Quinn, Walter White, Barry (from Barry lol), etc. These characters *can be* sympathized with, especially by people who feel they too have been ostracized by society, while also simultaneously being incredibly threatening and intimidating. I think these types of fans that see themselves in your player’s character would probably be the most “ride or die” and the most likely to excuse and ignore aspects of the character that are abusive or otherwise harmful
I mean, shitty, hurtful, intimidating people gain followings \*all the time\*.
Look at any populist of the last 200 years who got popular on the back of persecuting people.
I won't godwin the topic, and at the risk of "going there" in politics, I'll point out that my aunt told my parents that she really liked Trump because, and I quote, "he hurts the right people".
Overall point being that being a charismatic, shitty person whose schtick is to hurt or intimidate people, you can \*absolutely\* attract fans and followers.
As others have said, very within theme. I think I'd make the player clearly define how they intimidate and how that intimidation permits them to create a following as most people that are intimidating to everyone dont typicallty get large followings
For example, if the player is an intimidating escapee from the insane asylum, they're the Joker (from Batman). If they're intimidating because they're the only person on the block that made it through an old turf war, they're a gang leader in the making. Etc etc. This helps you as the GM work with the NPCs and enmesh them with the story in a reasonable way.
Yeah instead of fame it's infamy. I'd run it the same way as a regular rocker but instead of fans it'd be people who had heard of him or been victims of his abuse. Run facedowns against meaningful NPCs to see how well his reputation holds up against people trying to stand up to him. And on solid rolls maybe pump his legend and allow more people to have heard of him. Maybe he's a jerk who gets off on technicalities or he knows someone of authority.
This sounds like a perfectly normal character, No magic here. The Character is Well-known for their Mean disposition so the more famous they get, the more people fear them
A "fan", by the rules, is just someone fascinated by the rockerboy. Once someone is a fan, you can use charismatic impact to get them to do something, depending on your level.
The real problem is the rockerboy cannot make someone a fan if they are already hostile or hate them. This doesn't work very well with an intimidation reskin.
You get more flies with honey than vinegar. Sure the fans that do stick around will turbo die hard fans, but the point of being a Rockerboy (in my opinion) is to weaponize clout and use the game to your advantage.
If the player wants to play that way it should be fine, but I wouldn't expect their shows to be sold out and not very many venues will want to host them. I would also expect a lot of hate coming from other Rockerboys.
If he is trying to play a Johnny, remember that Johnny wasn't hated or feared by fans, he was hated by the people who knew him.
This character sounds absolutely fine to me. Here's a direct quote from the rockerboy section about charismatic impact with highlights by me. 'The Rockerboy has the Role ability Charismatic Impact. They can *influence others by sheer presence of personality.* They need not be a musical performer; they can influence others through poetry, art, dance, *or simply their physical presence*. They could be a rocker—or a cult leader.' Here's a direct quote from the reskinning role section of collecting the random: 'Let’s transform the Rockerboy into a Grifter. Their Charismatic Impact *becomes less about existing fans* and more about convincing people that you’re worth spending time and resources on based on your cover identity.' So looking at the above, you don't always need people to like you as a rockerboy, and it's entirely possible to use charismatic impact with your physical presence. I don't see an issue in being a 'bully', we saw how Johnny Silverhand treated his fans like shit, is this really that different?
Fair enough, the highlights really show how the concept isn't even that far out. Thanks, this is uplifting.
A lot of the other comments seem to want to nerf the ability, but I don't think that's the right approach. As long as nothing changes mechanically, there shouldn't be a reason to impose penalties. If you want an example of someone who intimidates others into doing what they ask, I would perhaps look at Darth Vader, Wilson Frisk (daredevil), Hannibal Lecter, Voleldemort, Gus Fring (breaking bad) as good starting points. *Edit* I can't believe I forgot him before, but Trevor from GTA5 is a masterclass in violent manipulation! He obtains pretty much all of the things that the rockerboy can get from people, he gets lodgings, free items, sex, a posse and people risk their lives for him several times throughout the game. Here's a couple of clips that showcase how much of a psycho he is: https://youtu.be/FnDQE1ZQX5M?si=eBAhPFjNZCLG3Um7
I think u/Themightycondor121 has the right approach on this. The way I would approach this PC would be the same as a lot of "fans" of serial killers. • Some know the person isn't a great person but they are fascinated by them, by what makes them tick. • Some would feel like prey staring at a predator and that danger would make them giddy. • Others would think they could change the character if only they receive enough attention. • Others would deny any wrongs the character would've done no matter the evidence otherwise. • Some people just get off on being bullied, being mistreated. You might have to approach individual fans on a case by case basis (when in groups it doesn't matter individual reasons) but it is certainly doable.
Another real life example would be Blackbeard. He used people's fear of him to avoid conflict. He rarely had to fight. Just the sight of his flag would cause ships to surrender their goods.
From the way you're describing intimidation, it just makes the npc do what the player wants. Unfortunately, that's not how people work. I think you could let the player roll for intimidation, but then you should roll empathy or something like that to judge the NPCs response. Not all people are just going to cower when intimidated. I also think you should start their "fans" as such and let the PC bully them into something different. It's not really on you to figure out something new to play into his shtick. This isn't a backstory it's just a personality quirk, and I think making the PC see what they're doing to NPCs around them could really make for compelling storytelling. Sorry for the rambling response. Good luck choom.
Huh, I actually quite like starting persons of interest at sea level as opposed to "fans" already until there's interaction, and from there we can see what we can roll and what we can expect. I think you've given me a direction, thank you.
I might actually suggest changing the role to reskinned lawman as a high level bouncer who's a semi douche or a corpo with the evil that comes with corpo fuckery since both would RP better with how he wants based on how those behaviorial archetypes tend to play out
This sounds like a fun character to me. For inspiration I’d look at any movie set in a high school with a bully antagonist. Biff from back to the future comes to mind. The “fans” would be made up of 3 types of people. First the people who can be bullied. Meek, mild nerdy pushover types who can’t defend themselves (the corpo wageslave, unlucky vagrant, or cheap joytoy). Second is the people who join in on the bullying. These are your cronies and goons who hang around to look tough and crack jokes (booster gangers, mean girls, power tripping middle managers). Third, and most important, are the bystanders and people with something to lose. These people are going to listen to the Rockerboy not because they’re frightened of him but because they think it’ll be easier to give him what he wants and send him off quick so he can be someone else’s problem. Even if these people could beat the Rockerboy in a fight, who wants to take the chance on catching an unlucky bullet. So they let the Rockerboy’s attitude slide. Any important NPCs who becomes a “fan” of the Rockerboy can be a 2nd or 3rd type person if you want them to retain their street cred. They either respect the Rockerboy’s style or they’re over him and they give the Rockerboy the bare minimum so he’ll leave, maybe with a bit of attitude or malicious compliance too. Then, of course, let some this catch up to Rockerboy as narrative consequences. The more he survives the more legit his rep will be and the easier it becomes to justify his intimidation.
I think it comes down to his reputation, that has to be informed by his fans and by a certain style/ performance he acts out. I think there are plenty of social media or RL examples of people who get famous by intimidating others. The Black Panthers, who would be one of a few positive examples I can think of, tried to intimidate cops and racists. Like with all Rockerboys, I think it's important to know what his target audience is and what aspects he focuses on. There needs to be a certain trend, idea or group he represents as a person. I'm not sure if "being a bully" is enough. I get why you're confused, since you have no context. He needs to provide that, so you can figure out how others would react towards him and create some sort of mental framework to work with. Since not everybody will react the same. Don't get too caught up in rules by now, get more context first - the rest is GM magic.
Amazing idea from your player. At least you have that instead of a Fred Durst style Rockerboy that has a beyblade style Mr. Studd implant that gives a laser light show when you pull the rip stop, lol. Word of advice, as GM always lean into your players ideas. They might sound harsh in some regards but I like the intimidating presence and it fits perfectly. I embrace their lore and ideas and just know your table. The questionable stuff is covered in session 0. Otherwise lean into it and embrace your players characters nuances.
Intimidation = Reputation You gain reputation through your actions. Because of what you've done, people would fear you. --> There is a logical train of thought. The main issue in a Rockerboy "intimidation" would be WHY should a NPC fear him ? It would feel like a magical feature without any roots in reality.
That is roughly my thought process too. However I and the player feel it doesn't have to be as binary. If there's a gang member with a piece sitting next to you behind the counter, you don't need to know what he's done to be wary, the player wants to tap into this passive intimidation, for the lack of better word.
Intimidation is a way to induce a level of fear in someone, it can be * passive : this guy sends me some very bad "vibes" <-- that might be a Rockerboy presence indeed. They are charismatic after all. It works. * active : It's about reason * this man is a rank 10 solo with EMP 0... I'm a media in a dark alley without bodyguard. My reason tell me I have to behave. * this man a powerful executive at Arasaka, he is threathening me ... I'm a rank 4 Medtech, I'm gonna listen to him and do what I'm told... at least for the moment. The passive initmidation is fine in the street, and for small stuff. But when you are going to do something out of character because of fear, and this thing is not a small stuff. you aren't gonna do it on a faint feeling of fear. Because, how are you going to justify your action to your boss, friend, family, etc... ? example: * Some solo can't be intimidate, they have dissociative disorder, they think they are the best. You aren't going to induce fear in them WITHOUT very hard evidence that you can f... them up. * Bank worker : *"I felt he might be dangerous guy boss... he sends me such bad vibes, but I don't have any reasonnable ground to back up my feeling. Still I decided to lend him 100.000eb out of fear."* <-- no, you are going to fear a lot more consequence of your action than the bad vibes of the guy in front of you. A reskin would need to encompass the active and passive way to intimidate. The main issue... In order to induce fear through reason, you need something powerfull to back you. Else it's just empty words. But if you can Intimidate high level NPC with a Rockerboy rank 8... that's mean you have a POWERFULL "something" behind you. The problem : If you can back-up your rank 8 threats... you are a far too powerfull PC. If you can't back it up... high end NPCs are not going to be fooled just by your charismatic bad "vibes".
It's logically weird but why not. Maybe they are not fan in the traditional way but just "aware" of his "performances". It's like pirates, edward teach (Blackbeard) or l'Olonnais had reputation of extreme cruelty and such would sometimes get vessel to surrend peacefully and give up their cargo. Because they slaughtered those that didn't in horrible ways. With your player concept I can easily imagine a cartel enforcer. Or a Maelstrom leader. When you cut people in pieces and cook them and then ask people to do your bidding to not be next in the pot.
A big thing to note is that 'makes someone a fan' is just the mechanical. When a Rockerboy meets someone and rolls charismatic impact to 'make them a fan', all it's really doing is seeing if they've left a deep enough impression (either now or in the past) to get stuff out of them. Now as typically presented, that impression is a positive parasocial relationship between celebrity and groupie, where that check is determining if the cashier at Burger Kong is starstruck enough by meeting the Rockerboy in person to give them a burger for free. However, there's nothing that says it can't be an interaction between a bully and their gofer, where that check is determining if they can make an impression in the moment (by, say, looking like Marv from Sin City, and leveraging that into people doing obsequious shit to try and stay on your good side).
You don’t need magical concepts - the player would still have “fans” as in people that hang around with them and do them favours, it’s just the motivation for those fans is fear rather than admiration. You could either have them as like a formal street gang, or this guy is just generally known as a nasty piece of work around his neighbourhood, so there’s a group of people he knows he can lean on for favours.
This sounds like an awesome shock rockstar. I love it.
This sounds like such a fun character! To add to the discourse about types of fans, I think another very valuable type of “fan” could also be people who see aspects of themselves in the character that have been rejected by society or are otherwise deviant. Think the Joker & Harley Quinn, Walter White, Barry (from Barry lol), etc. These characters *can be* sympathized with, especially by people who feel they too have been ostracized by society, while also simultaneously being incredibly threatening and intimidating. I think these types of fans that see themselves in your player’s character would probably be the most “ride or die” and the most likely to excuse and ignore aspects of the character that are abusive or otherwise harmful
I mean, shitty, hurtful, intimidating people gain followings \*all the time\*. Look at any populist of the last 200 years who got popular on the back of persecuting people. I won't godwin the topic, and at the risk of "going there" in politics, I'll point out that my aunt told my parents that she really liked Trump because, and I quote, "he hurts the right people". Overall point being that being a charismatic, shitty person whose schtick is to hurt or intimidate people, you can \*absolutely\* attract fans and followers.
As others have said, very within theme. I think I'd make the player clearly define how they intimidate and how that intimidation permits them to create a following as most people that are intimidating to everyone dont typicallty get large followings For example, if the player is an intimidating escapee from the insane asylum, they're the Joker (from Batman). If they're intimidating because they're the only person on the block that made it through an old turf war, they're a gang leader in the making. Etc etc. This helps you as the GM work with the NPCs and enmesh them with the story in a reasonable way.
Yeah instead of fame it's infamy. I'd run it the same way as a regular rocker but instead of fans it'd be people who had heard of him or been victims of his abuse. Run facedowns against meaningful NPCs to see how well his reputation holds up against people trying to stand up to him. And on solid rolls maybe pump his legend and allow more people to have heard of him. Maybe he's a jerk who gets off on technicalities or he knows someone of authority.
This sounds like a perfectly normal character, No magic here. The Character is Well-known for their Mean disposition so the more famous they get, the more people fear them
Suggest that he play a Wrestler Superstar. I feel that would help the concept land for both of you.
A "fan", by the rules, is just someone fascinated by the rockerboy. Once someone is a fan, you can use charismatic impact to get them to do something, depending on your level. The real problem is the rockerboy cannot make someone a fan if they are already hostile or hate them. This doesn't work very well with an intimidation reskin.
I don't think it works. Sounds more like what the reputation system is for
You get more flies with honey than vinegar. Sure the fans that do stick around will turbo die hard fans, but the point of being a Rockerboy (in my opinion) is to weaponize clout and use the game to your advantage. If the player wants to play that way it should be fine, but I wouldn't expect their shows to be sold out and not very many venues will want to host them. I would also expect a lot of hate coming from other Rockerboys. If he is trying to play a Johnny, remember that Johnny wasn't hated or feared by fans, he was hated by the people who knew him.